Somewhere in the Skies - Steve Berg: VOYAGE TO THE STARS

Episode Date: June 3, 2019

On episode 111 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan is joined by actor/writer and UFO buff, Steve Berg. Ryan originally learned of Berg's work through a hilarious segment of the Comedy Central tv show, "Drunk History", in which Berg recounted the Roswell UFO incident in concise and inebriated detail. But Berg wasn't a one-trick pony. His UFO knowledge was vast, and it truly shows in this wide-ranging interview. Ryan and Berg discuss the late Stanton Friedman and his contributions to the UFO research field. They also discuss the prolific work of Jacques Vallée, belief systems, the cult-like tendencies of people in the UFO community, the Bennewitz affair in the 1980s, and Berg's personal thoughts on the recent mainstream coverage of UFOs and the work being done by To the Stars Academy. Berg then introduces us to his current podcast endeavor, Voyage to the Stars, a cosmic dark comedy of improvised storytelling and rich science fiction lore. Guest Bio: Steve Berg is an actor and improviser who was most recently seen in New Line’s comedy feature "Tag" starring Jon Hamm and Rashida Jones. His credits also include recurring roles on NBC's "The Good Place," ABC's "The Goldbergs," Comedy Central's "Idiotsitter," and BET's "The Comedy Get Down." He has appeared in two features for director Joe Swanberg -- the Netflix Original "Win It All" and the indie "Digging For Fire" which premiered at the 2015 Sundance Film Festival. Berg has been a drunk narrator multiple times on Comedy Central's "Drunk History" and was a series regular in the Fox Television pilot "WTF America" produced by Ron Howard and Brian Grazer. Berg can next be seen in the indie "When Jeff Tried to Save the World." He is originally from Omaha, Nebraska. To learn more about VOYAGE TO THE STARS, visit: www.voyagetothestars.net Use Promo code: SKIES for discount tickets to ALIEN CON Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies To watch ROSWELL: MYSTERIES DECODED for free, CLICK HERE  Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is sponsored by HelloFresh. To receive 50% off your first order, use promo code: SOMEWHERE50 at checkout by visiting www.HelloFresh.ca Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, saucerheads. This is Ryan Sprague from the Summer in the Sky's podcast, and I have an exclusive offer for you to come join me at AlienCon, Los Angeles. AlienCon brings together UFO researchers, the stars of ancient aliens, and science fiction fan favorites. But most importantly, it brings us all together as like-minded people to talk about these topics. I'll be giving lectures and taking part in numerous panel discussions with some of the most popular UFO and unexplained podcasts out there today. And don't forget to check out live podcast recordings of Somewhere in the Skies and Unknown, hosted by Jason McClellan. It's going to be a jam-packed weekend you won't soon forget and you get to be a part of. The event is June 21st, 22nd, and 23rd at the Los Angeles

Convention Center. Tickets are on sale right now at thealiaccon.com. And if you use the promo code Skies at checkout, you'll get an exclusive discount on all three. tickets. Again, use the promo code Skies. For guest info, special offers, full schedule, and tickets, visit thealiancon.com, and I'll see you there. Today on the show, writer, actor, and seasoned UFO researcher, Steve Berg. I think it's like, you know, whether or not any of it's true, it almost doesn't matter to me anymore. You know, like, it's just interesting. It really is. And I feel like there's just something going on that's non-human. You know, like, that's all I know.

It's the only conclusion I can make up all this stuff. It's like, I believe there is a phenomenon. I believe we have no idea. And we're probably not even close to an answer. And we probably never will be. This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan Sprague. So the connections both in Hollywood and in the UFO subculture have always been ridiculous. And that pretty much sums up how I connected with today's guest.

I was researching Roswell for a television special I was hosting. and in my deep dive, I came across an awesome segment by today's guest on Comedy Central, highly entertaining show he was on called Drunk History. And I did what every podcast host does. I bombarded our guest on his social networks, and he was kind enough to answer me back. And then I saw he knew my good friends, Greg Bishop and Tim Benal, who I know are properly listening. So I learned that his UFO knowledge was much more comprehensive than just Roswell. So I'd love to take a deep dive today with him and also talk all about his awesome new podcast that he's a part of called A Voyage to the Stars.

So Steve Berg, thank you so much for joining me today on Summer in the Skies. Wyatt, thank you for having me on, you know, man. I'm happy to be here. I know we were talking off air for a little while here, so I know this is going to be a super fun one. And that's what I have been striving for with Somewhere in the Skies is, you know, we have times, dates, the history of UFOs. But, dude, we're just going to deep dive today. Good. That's where I'd like to live.

Deep, deep, deep under the water. Awesome. So, well, let's start with, you know, the origin story. How did you get interested in UFOs to begin with? Wow, that is a great question. You know, like the exact, I don't remember a moment. Like, I remember this. So when I was, like, I think four or five years old, my mom took me to get a library card.

And this is kind of more her story. She remembers it more than I do. But she told me, you know, check out as many books as you want. And so I looked around and I was like, four or five, probably really couldn't even read that well by then, if I even could. But I came back with a book about magic and a book about UFOs.

And from that point on, I was obsessed with getting like these, my library had this like Billy Myers picture book. Oh, nice. And for me, as a young kid, I was like, oh, my God, those are real. I can't believe this. Why isn't anyone talking about this?

So honestly, my kind of gateway drug into UFOs was Billy Myers picture books when I was really, really little. Yeah, but I've kind of, like, thought about this deeply. Like, I'm like, why did I get into UFOs? I've, you know, never, didn't have an experience or anything like that. I've never seen anything. But I think I grew up in a family with, like, no religion. Like, I never went to church at all.

I mean, we celebrate, you know, the holidays, but, like, not really. And I think maybe I got into UFOs because I was, like, looking for something as almost as a religion replacement. Mm. That's doing like a deep dive, like almost like doing self-reflective therapy on myself. Oh, absolutely, man. UFOs, they are a belief system in many different layers. And at the kid, I just like would believe everything and anything just because I wanted to know, it was so fun.

Yeah, but that's kind of, you know, I didn't, it's a pretty generic way in. I just, I thought it was something that, like, I couldn't believe that not everyone was interested in it as a kid. He kind of continued to feel that way, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. How boring, Steve. God, you weren't abducted when you were 10 years old. Come on, man. Not that I know of. Maybe I was. It'd be great. I wish, man. It sounds awesome. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. That's pretty cool, man. Like, I was sort of the same way. I did have sort of an initiation experience as a young boy. But I did the same thing. I went that deep dive into my public library. I ended up keeping most of the books and they never got him back. Do you need to. That's what I would do. I was actually so funny, a lot of my books are from the Omaha Public Library. Okay, okay. I just never returned to my poor mom probably had to pay a hefty fine for that.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I know. I feel like I probably own the library by now with how much I owe them. But, well, that's pretty cool, man. I love hearing how people got into this and everyone comes at it from a different angle. And like I mentioned in the intro, I saw you on, I've seen you, I should say, in TV and movies and everything. And I was really surprised when I saw you pop up on a show, my girlfriend, and I religiously watch drunk history. And you covered the case, the seminal case in Euphology, Roswell. And, you know, I had my brush with that recently with the case going out to the actual crash site, going to the Roswell Daily Record and meeting Jesse Marcel's granddaughter, which was. was awesome. Oh, that's really cool. Yeah, man. Like, we really, we really tried to strive to do something new and get stories out there. And I'll be honest, you know, when I was approached to do this, uh, television special,

I, I, I didn't want to do it. I, I was like, Roswell, what the hell is left to say about Roswell? What, yeah, that's a challenge. Yeah, man. So, I mean, but coming out on the other side of it, after doing it, my mind was completely changed on the entire incident. So I want to ask you, having covered it on TV and researching it and everything. Yeah. What are your personal thoughts on the record? Well, you know, I mean, that's interesting how you said your mind was changed on it after doing a deep dive into it. Because like I feel like the more I've learned about Roswell, I guess for the last 20 years, the further away I get away from thinking that there was any kind of non-human intelligence involved.

But, you know, but that I don't, you know. like, I just, it's so hard. You know, it's such a tough case, I think, to really, like, draw any kind of, like, conclusion on, because while I would say that, you know, it's hard, it's almost impossible to rule out any kind of terrestrial origin of it, unless there's something I don't know. But, I mean, obviously, it's an interesting case because it's kind of like the, it's really one of the, you know, cornerstones of the UFO mythology of the 20th century. And so that, you know, whether or not anything happened there, it is an important case because it's such a big thing in UFO pop culture.

It's almost like kind of like, you know, you can probably obviously tell I just read Diana Walsh's, Walsh Basilko's book. You know? Yeah, yeah. Because I love so many of the things that she talks about just really resonated with me in terms of, you know, like whether or not something's true, it doesn't matter, you know, it doesn't make any less important. Just kind of like creating like new mythology. It's kind of that whole Carl Young type thing. Like where it doesn't matter if it's true. Enough people believe this and maybe we're making it true.

You know, like it's crazy. I know I kind of maybe drifted a little way from Roswell. But, you know, in terms of doing it for drunk history, I'll just explain like how that came about. I had done a couple of the narrations and done some of the reenactments. Derek Waters is an old friend of mine. We used to, we both started out Second City in Los Angeles doing a sketch. And so we met there.

and just became, you know, great friends. And, you know, when that show, he got that show, he just, you know, asked me to be a part of itself. Absolutely. I can drink beer and be on TV. It doesn't take much convincing, yeah. No, it doesn't. But, you know, I kind of started begging him from the beginning. Oh, dude, let me do some kind of UFO episode.

And he's like, yeah, it's kind of hard because there's not really a conclusion. And I'm like, good point, you know. And then they were doing an episode specifically on the state of New Mexico. The one season they were kind of focusing on regions and states. And so I was like, Derek, Roswell, dude. I know there's no conclusion, but let me do it. He's like, dude, fine. And he knew they end of loving the episode.

It was actually kind of like a popular segment for him. But yeah, it was fun to do. And I kind of came to the conclusion that, like, Project Mogul seemed like the most likely explanation for me. Okay. Which is not popular. I got, like, actually some shit for that, you know? but yeah, I mean, to me, it's just impossible to say, what the fuck happen? Oh, dude, no, we're all about the fuck.

Okay, yeah, okay. Fuck all you want. It's all my want. All right, so, yeah, but it's, you know, obviously a very important case, whether you're into Roswell or not, you can't deny it's importance. Well, I will admit here, and I even brought this up in our investigation. I tend to err on the side of human when it comes to Roswell. I would agree with you that I think it was some sort of top secret project. My investigative partner and I sort of came to the conclusion that there was most definitely a cover-up.

You can't deny that. Yes. No, there definitely was. I mean, even the press release, that was. Absolutely. They were being very unclear and weird about it. So that makes it interesting, too, you know? They spoke more with the cover-up than, you know, than anything else.

I agree. of, you know, retracting the story the day after. But we, it was really interesting, man. When we were off camera, we were getting ready to go to another location. This dude, this local in Roswell comes up to us. He's like, what are you guys doing? And obviously, you know, we're filming. He's like, oh, I wonder what it's about.

So he goes on to tell us, you know, my relatives worked at the 509th bomb group. And they told me the stories. about what happened there. And he went on to tell us one of the most like disturbing stories ever, which kind of related back to all the work Annie Jacobson had done and all these stories about like high altitude balloon experiments where they were sending children up in these things. You know, discarded children. Oh, jeez. children, super dark, man. And, you know, they were seeing how high they could get these,

these humans into the air before, like, bad shit started to happen. So for us, man, it's so dark and it's way more disturbing than a UFO cover-up. So we didn't even go there in the special, but it's kind of what we alluded to at the end of our thing, is there's so much more to look into. This could be way more disturbing than any of us thought. And maybe that's what they want.

It won it all along. Let the public think it was aliens. Meanwhile, we're going to kill all these kids that no one cares about and start the space race. It's insane. It's insane. That is really insane. It almost reminds me of it. I never read the book, but I've read, you know, Nick Redfern wrote a book about Roswell. Yes. That was very controversial and very people like, you know, were like mad about it. But is that sort of what the history, wasn't that kind of a theory that they were doing like testing on like, you know. Yeah, it was Japanese P-O-Ws. And, like, he got a lot of flack for that. But I'm telling you, as soon as we got to Roswell and we spoke to several locals, they all sort of had similar stories to tell. Now, whether it was Japanese or, you know, just runaways or, unfortunately,

like, mentally disabled and physically disabled people that community, you know, society sort of shuns aside. It's disgusting. if any of it's true, but oh yeah. Welcome to the world of conspiracies. There we're deep in it. Oh, God. Well, you know, sort of connecting to Roswell,

Steve, I got to ask you, we lost Stanton Friedman recently. You know, the guy who basically brought Roswell to the public. So did you follow any of Staten Friedman's work? And what did it mean to you if he did? Well, I mean, yes. I mean, I don't think you can, you know, be a saucer, and not have been influenced by a state in freedom in either directly or indirectly. As a kid, he was, you know, for me, the face of uphology, I guess, if you will, like,

because he was the one who was on, like, the legitimate, you know, he would seem like the, you know, unannointed spokesperson for ufology in, like, the 80s and 90s, kind of when I was a kid growing up, because he would be the one on Larry King eloquently speaking about the topic. And also kind of had, you know, he had a background to prove it. He was a nuclear physicist, Stanford, la, la, la, la, la. You know, but, like, he, for Stephen Freeman was the guy, man, you know, like, he really wasn't. And I think sort of at a certain point in my, you know, UFO personal, you know, like, looking into the topic, I maybe stopped caring about some of the stuff he was talking about, like, in terms of, like, you know, the government,

like government and UFO stuff is, like, while it's interesting to me, is not that important to me, I actually tend to believe that the government maybe has more evidence of this stuff, but has no clue what it is. I really believe that for some reason. I feel like I need to be proved wrong on that until I would think anything else. But, yeah, Stan Friedman is a, you know, larger in life, luminary of the field, man. I love the guy. Actually, the only run-in I ever had, and I was a kid, probably 13 or 14, at a UFO convention in Lincoln, Nebraska. and Stanton was kind of like, you know,

he was the big closer of like the weekend, you know, and I'm like, I'm going to see Stan Freeman. So my mom dropped me off like an hour away from Omaha where I'm from and Lincoln, Nebraska. And I spent a couple days and going to these lectures. And I was just floored. It was incredible. But I remember waiting in a long line to, you know,

it was like a book signing for Stanton Freeman. And I didn't have a book, but I just wanted to wait in line and shake his hand. And so I get in the line and shake his hand. And he's like, what? No book? And I'm like, no. And he goes, next. Oh, my God.

He's so, like, disappointed. I was like, sorry. I'm a kid. Oh, man, that's great. I think, you know, but he, like, it sounds like, from what I heard, like, he, he went out doing what he loves, man. Like, there was no, you know, like, he was, like, literally, like, on tour or, like, going to a speaking or something like that.

I mean, that's how I want to go, you know, like, doing what I love, still, still having passion inside me. And, yeah, man, I think he, that's a life well lived. I would have to agree, man. I mean, like you said, like, he sort of preached the same thing for over 50 years, but, like, there was something to it. Yeah, it's important to what he was saying, but yeah. Yeah, exactly.

And he had his little soundbites. So, yeah, he was the one they would put on TV because he knew how to work the media. And he knew how to, like, make the most of the time he was given to talk legitimately about UFO. So, you know, we have so much to thank him for in terms of that, I feel. No, 100%. I mean, I used the term gray basket for, like, things all the time. Gray basket, yeah. I was actually talking to one of my managers about sitting up a couple ideas I was working on.

She was asking me about one of my ideas. I just kind of toss at one of the gray basket for now. I love that. She has no idea what that's referring to. But, yeah, you know. Yeah. Well, what's that other one he had? Noisy negativists.

Say it was. Noisy negativist? Yeah. He's got a couple, man. He's got a couple, like, buzzwords that are pretty great. But I mean, how, like, I feel like that's going to catch on, like, right now because, I mean, we're just swimming in a world of noisy negatives, negativists right now. Yeah, I know, man. Dark times.

St. Friedman knew more about the world than just UFOs. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. But, like you said, he went out doing what he loved. He was on his way home from giving a UFO lecture. So what else? What more can you ask for? I mean, I think that's, I think it's kind of beautiful.

Obviously, you know, like, maybe his family would have preferred. it to be around him, but like, I'm sure they were like, no, he was doing what I love? I mean, what more can you add for, you know? Yep. Well, getting back to, you know, some of your, your brush with all these UFOs and Hollywood and everything, man. This is a bit more on the paranormal side.

Sure. And I know it's a little, it's a little sorted history for you, but I have to ask, Skinwalker Ranch, the film that you've done, found footage film. Is there anything you're willing to share with us about your research into Skinwalker and the process on that project?

I, well, you know, like a lot of, especially independent movies where you're getting, you know, when you're kind of like somewhat at the, with any, look, with anything in Hollywood, you're sort of at the end of the day, someone at the mercy of who is giving you money to do this. Yep. You know, I'm well aware. I, you know, live my life as it's kind of like idealist, you know, I still think Hollywood can be about art and, you know, like doing something exactly what you want. But you're not paying for it.

It doesn't turn out that way most of the time. Anyway, so I had gotten fascinated with the Skinwalker Ranch. I think maybe hearing George Knapp talk about it on a show. It wasn't with Art Bell probably at the time. But either he was hosting the show. But anyway, he did this show years ago, probably 10 years ago now, about Skinner Wocker Ranch. And I was like just, holy shit, captivated.

And I remember going out and getting his book about Skidwocker Ranch and reading it in one sitting. And then, like, being it the next week. And I just done this indie movie that was shot in Utah. And it was a really, it was a fun little movie. And so I kind of became, you know, buddies with the guy who financed the executive producer. And I pitched him this idea. My friend, well, not myself, this, Devin McGinn, who is my partner in this project.

And he did, you know, most of the directing of it. He really, I was kind of just more of a quality control guy on the set. But we pitched him this idea literally just on a car ride. We had no material, and he was like, I love it. I'll give you guys this much money to do it. And we're like, what? And he was like so serious. Like set up an account for us, like started paying us to develop it.

And we're like, oh, my God, I can't believe that was easy, you know? Yeah. But I mean, we felt like it was such a good idea. And we had kind of a way in, you know, my pitch was it was kind of like a more of a psychological thriller, not a horror movie. It was not intended to be a found footage movie for, you know, it was more like, like, poltergeist set in a ranch. You know, and I'm like how, to me, that sounds really good. More of a psychological movie, you know. you know, when it was coming out, the found footage trend was reemerging in a big way.

So we, at the last second, kind of got pressured to turn it into a found footage movie. And, you know, that's life, man. Yeah, that's Hollywood life. I don't, like, hate it or, like, shun away from it. It's just not the movie I intended to be a part of. You know what I mean? Like, it was just, I look back out and say, like, hey, it was a job. I made some money.

Moving on. You know, like. Yeah, I was going to. say you got to research Skinwalker Ranch, which hadn't really been done that much at that time, you know? Not really, yeah. No, and I did, dude. I mean, like, I still love Skinwalker Ranch.

I think about it all time. I always, I'm always, like, trying to convince my wife, like, on our next vacation, hey, what if we took a road trip through Utah? Yeah. And she's like, I don't know. It sounds great to me. But eventually, I do what I, you know, I actually have a couple buddies who are, like, you know, mildly interested in this stuff.

and I'm trying to convince them to take a road trip with me there and, like, camp, and I love fly fishing. So I'm like, well, fly fish on the way, man, it'll be great, you know? Nice. So, but yeah, it's still a pilgrimage I need to make. He's always gets to get a hotel in Gorm and stay there and it's like bullshit with locals and, you know, drink beer to hockey talk. So this sounds fun to me. It sounds awesome. Did you happy to see that recent documentary on Skinwalker Ranch?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw it as soon as it was available. The, the, oh, I can't remember his name. He's got a long. Jeremy Lockerbie, Corbell's film? Yeah, yeah. No, I watched that in Air 51. And look, I mean, because here's what I will say.

I felt very gratified to see, like, more pictures of the property. And some, but I feel like I don't, you know, without saying anything, like, you know, like, I don't want to, like, rip it apart of any effort to do something about Skimark Ranch. I applaud. But I think it left a little something to be desired for me. It might, I think it's just his style of. directing and maybe crafting a documentary is not for me. You know, a lot of people have said that.

And Jeremy's a friend of the show. But, you know, when you make films, like, it is out there for the public to either rip apart or praise. And, you know, I think he's still finding his footing. He's getting his voice out there. But at the end of the day, like you said, how do you cover Skinwalker Ranch in like an hour and a half? It's impossible.

It's an impossible task. That's why, like, I say, like, I applaud him. Like, I love that that dude's out. they're doing what he's doing. Like, I will, like, you know, like, I know he's sort of a polarizing figure, and that's fine, you know, like that almost makes him more interesting to me. But, yeah, it's really like, and that's what I kind of thought when I was going to watch it. My expect, I kept my expectation somewhat low because I'm like, how do you really cover something

that really isn't documented that we know of? I mean, maybe there's like, you know, secret videos and secret pictures and stuff like that. But, you know, it's, you know, like, I don't know. I feel like it's an impossible task. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I've watched it twice. So it's not like I didn't like it. You know, like I would not go back the second time.

But I, just to be able to see more pictures of the actual property to me was, I felt so, it felt so good. You know, because like I could look at just like mundane pictures of that property all day. Like for some reason, it just excites me to no end. Totally, man. Well, I feel the same way about the area 51. The Bob Lazar film he did too. You know, I've always been very on the fence about Bob Lazar. and I went to the LA premiere of that one.

And I'm gonna, I'll tell you right now, man, like I left definitely like a little changed feeling more like I believed Bob Luzar, at least that he saw what he says he saw. Now, whether or not that was all bullshit or disinformation, like I'm completely open to that. But I left being like,

holy shit. Like I actually believe this dude. Yeah. I don't know. It's tough. It's no. Look, I actually,

if you know if you had to if I had to make a choice I agree with you I think you said something very important the whole thing that I believe that he believes what he's saying and what he believe you know I believe that he believes what he saw and I think that is very popular it's the same thing with like wittly streber it's like he has no real evidence but I believe that wittly streber experienced what he thinks he experienced whether or not it was actually what it was who knows but you know like so I mean I feel like you had you kind of hit the nail on the head that that what you just said I think applies to a lot in the field. You know what I mean?

It is the mantra. I believe they believe this. Yeah, and that's important. Really important, actually, you know? So that's, you know, it goes, I mean, I'm not trying to tangentialize too much, but that's kind of that, you know, it's like almost Jacques Valet-ish. It just goes back to the whole thing where he said, he, you know, he believes this topic is way more complex than aliens coming from another planet, you know?

And I don't know. I feel like the more and more you look into this. stuff and then the more and more you reject the lay, you're like, how, how do you not subscribe to a lot of what he's saying? You know? Right. And, dude, I mean, there are nuts and bolts, euphologists out there, and that's, we need that.

Like, that's the stuff that's going to make it to the mainstream. Data, radar, um, trace evidence. And that's awesome. And it's like, we need it. But at the end of the day, like, I'm the kind of guy who I want to interview witnesses and get their testimony. And sometimes that's all we have to rely on. Yep.

But I think these stories are very important. You know, I really do. And I agree with you. Like, I, I am probably, I'm more turned on by listening to experiencers, contactees, or people who have even secondhand knowledge of high strangeness. I will always be interested in people's stories. Will I always be interested in, like, the Navy's involvement in the TikTok incident? I mean, you know, like, it's, frankly, I find it all very boring.

You know, like, you know, not, I don't know, if you want to get into all that, but like, I follow it, sure, but like, you know, almost at an arm's length a little bit, just because I feel like it's, I find so much redundancy in all this stuff. And I don't understand why people are so excited right now. I understand the fact that like Washington Post is like writing articles that I will agree, of course, is exciting whenever like a mainstream media sort of like that covers it, you know, but let's, yeah, let's, let's, let's, let's touch on that, Steve. Because actually, you know, that that is what is in the zeitgeist right now. And, you know, we have this new. show coming out by Tom DeLong to the Stars Academy. I sent my D.R. Just before we got on.

Nice. Nice. Hell, yeah. It's a good show. I've seen the first episode. But that being said, like, there's no arguing that what these dudes are doing and how the mainstream media is covering UFOs right now is, it's big. And it's out there unlike it's ever been before.

So, I mean, not getting too deep into the stars or the Navy or anything like that. that. What do you think about this being a new sort of era of disclosure? I mean, my fucking parents are texting me being like, oh, we're going to watch that show tonight. Oh, your aunt's coming over. Like, they can't believe this. Like, oh, they're just on Good Morning America. Like, it's crazy the amount of attention this is getting right now. And is this all a marketing ploy for this TV show or is this a new way to disclose? I think it is. Oh, I do. I do. I mean, like, just knowing how Hollywood likes to market in And look, at the end of the day, you know, History Channel doesn't give a shit if they're disclosing real information.

They care about numbers and ratings and how much they can charge for ad dollars. So the more they market this, the more they get my, I mean, it's just like when you, you know, when I, when I do, even like my podcast, Hamon, they send me out to do press before it even comes out. So this, you can look at it as like, look, I don't think, uh, Jimmy Kimmel or Stephen Colbert is that interested in having people from that, that, that actually. show to be on, you know, so they have to market it somehow. So to market it as kind of like this like, I mean, I'm not trying like, you know, this sounds like I'm trying to like, you know, take the air of the tires. But I do believe that this is, I mean, if you, if you don't believe this is marketing, then I don't think maybe you understand how TV works.

This is definitely, I mean, it's definitely you can see this is their marketing campaign before the show comes out. And that's fine. And like, it's really cool that like Good Morning America is taking interest in this stuff. Yeah. But I just have to go back to one thing that I think it's really funny is that, you know, so many people in the UFO community for years and years and years have been like, never trust the government. Never trust the word they say. They're lying to us about UFOs and this and that, blah, blah, blah.

And now when the government comes out and tells them that, yes, UFOs are real and this is what it is. Everyone's like, absolutely, the government's right. We totally believe that. I find it's so hilarious. It's so funny to me. Oh, man. The irony. Yeah, and like the Tick-Tac video, you know, I remember seeing that 10 years ago.

It's not, it's not. Oh, the T-T-T-T-D video came out. Like, it was released a long time ago, like in 2010. Yeah, I mean, I've heard rumblings of that and people have seen it. I personally had no knowledge of it. But again, like, I wasn't really chasing UFOs that closely back then. But that's interesting. So you knew about the Tick-Tac event much earlier?

I, you know, yeah, all it looked like to me, at the time when I saw it was like, yeah, that looks like some radar footage you have an airplane, you know, cool, of a little thing that, you know, is flying around. So it wasn't that exciting then. But I guess it got more exciting when you heard the story behind it and you heard some of the testimony and they started talking about it, how it was like going in and out of the water and all that stuff. That is all.

Yeah, I find that stuff interesting too, but I'm just a little like skeptical of how all this is being rolled out. I feel like to buy this whole cloth and just like buy into this whole situation is a little weird, especially when an entertainment production company is the one. You know, like, I'm not trying to disparage. It's like good for, I'm glad this is all happening. But, you know, I think a lot of my friends, like, yeah, like you too, because everyone, you know, a lot of people who know me, you know, more than two days know I'm into this stuff. So people are like, dude, what about all this stuff?

They're forwarding there. I'm like, yeah, it's cool, man. You know, I guess. Like, I found the Chicago O'Hare. incident, way more exciting than all this stuff, to be honest. Totally, man. You make a good point, too. We have to, we got to remain level-headed when it comes to this.

There's people who are super, super pro tom to long and to the stars. And then you have the people on the complete opposite side saying, like, oh, this is all just a whole disinformation campaign all over again. We've seen this, you know, throughout the decades in UFO. Some of Richard Jody stuff. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. So I'm kind of still somewhere in the middle.

I'm with the efforts. I think it's making UFOs cool. And dude, like, you and I both know how long we've strived for the UFOs to be cool. It's been an album across around my neck. You know me, like, shows I spend time developing and pitching about, like, UFOs and paranormal and all this stuff. Yeah. It's a tough road. But I feel like, now, oh, my God.

Now it's my time. I have a chance. Well, that's actually my next question, man. I know for a fact, there are a ton of UFO shows coming out after this history channel thing. You know, I'm guilty. I'm part of one of them. But I got to ask you, in pitching these UFO shows to networks and all that, what kind of UFO show would you want to work on or watch on TV, I guess? Well, my... would be more of something where it's not about like finding the truth but it's more about the people and the characters.

I'm really fascinated with 1980s UFO culture. You know, because I think it was such the wild weather. And I didn't really experience it, but I, you know, like Red Jacques Valet's like his journal book journals about the 80s. And like, you know, just like all the William Moore stuff going on, the Benoit stuff going on. It was like such a. I would feel like a TV show based off Greek Bishop's book Project Beta. Oh, my God. Yeah.

It's just a show I want to make. Like, I've talked to Greg about it multiple times, but I either want to make that into a movie or a hour-long, sort of like, not comedic comedy show, but like sort of a dramedy. Because I feel like a lot of this UFO stuff, especially with the people and just the culture of it, is absolutely hilarious. Not in a way of making fun of people or their beliefs. It's just that, you know, like, I remember hearing. one story about Adam Greightly in one of his books Happy Trails to High Strangeness wrote that he went to like some like weird UFO

conference in Nevada and one of the U.S., I think Jordan Maxwell was selling Rortisbury chickens like before. And I'm like, that is what I want to make a TV show about. When I read that, I'm like, nothing's funnier to me. Nothing's funnier to me.

Like, you know, I would probably want to do something that was a little bit light and funny because like I don't really want to try to compete with like all the you know, the serious like X-5 else like governments, you know, hiding secrets from you. That type of stuff is becoming a little boring to me, I guess, my old age. Yeah, it was my dream. I would do a project bait at the TV show.

That is like a pitch that so many people can get behind. I thought that for so many years after I read it the first time. I'm like, holy shit, this is a movie. This is a movie right here. It is. It's a movie. I even think you could stretch it out to six seasons of TV, you know? Like, you know, I have to like take some liberties with, you know,

some narratives and stuff like that but just to base it off project beta and then you know kind of tangelize and go out from there what a great palette to work from absolutely well let me get your opinion on this are you uh are you pro or anti project blue book

this history television show I tried to watch it just wasn't for me yeah okay okay yeah that's another one where I'm like all right they're they're making Heineck this serious like staunch believer and like almost like an action hero means meanwhile you've got this rich history of the guy who literally on the way to going to investigate a case as it's happening his car breaks down with his other like government

officials so they're waiting for another government car to show up and hynick is like fuck you guys he hikes like 50 miles to the site where it happening and he gets there before everyone else to investigate be the first one on site and that's the kind of shit i want to see man yeah yeah dude I'm with you on that. I think they kind of, they had a huge opportunity with a show like this. And sometimes I feel what happens

is they get these great opportunities or someone has a great idea and then they hire a writing staff that has no interest in this topic at all. And so they're just kind of a very surface story. It's so true. I had David O'Leary, the head writer, the creator, I should say,

on the show when the first episode aired. And you can tell this guy is so passionate in trying to do so much justice to Heinek. And he knows his stuff. My God. But like you said, man, once the execs get involved in these people who have no history with the topic or care whatsoever about, you know, this niche and info community, it's got to be tough.

I can't imagine this struggle that O'Leary's going through right now with the pressure of a season two, you know? It would be, it's very tough because so much of the stuff with the U. topic that I love, I think to an outside audience would be considered mundane. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like the idea of like Heinek-Hagging. I would love that.

You would love that. But the execs, they'd be like, why? No, that takes five pages of the script. You know, like, so it's like, honestly, a lot of the good, like, nuggets. I bet that this guy wants to tell he's struggling up against, you know. But again, like, I like that it's out there. You know, it's just not really probably. I think we know when a UFO show comes out, they really try to target people on an almost like a 101 level.

Yes. If it was a college course, we are, I mean, not to be like, you know, this is nothing to brag about. It's maybe something to not brag about. So I mean, you know, potentially maybe wasted a lot of time. We're looking at a master's level. You know what I'm saying? Like, so the stuff I'm going to want to see is probably not what 98% of, you know, people would want. Who would watch this show?

That's what I say about even like Project Beta. Like I want to make a Project Beta TV show. I don't know. I think it would be a tough pitch. People would be like, so you want to make about UFO culture in the 80s? Excuse me what? What? Where are the aliens?

I drove no aliens. I'm like, oh, okay. It's so true, man. Like, I got ripped apart for my Roswell special just because all these UFO vets are like, this is everything we already knew. And I kept telling them, guys, this is the CW. These are like 14-year-old girls watching this. They have never heard.

of Roswell. So it really, I understand marketing and demographics when it comes to television. It's a business. Yeah. So like you got to, you got to realize when it's when it's straight up television and when it's like a documentary, they're completely different things. So yeah, I totally agree with you. Yeah. And I'm sort of like I can't really talk about it too much. Not that it's like, should be secretive, but it's just like, because I really shouldn't. But I am myself developing a half-hour sort of doc series on the UFO topic and other weirdness. But it is an uphill battle because, you know, like I'm trying to make a show that I think people can find humorous, interesting. And then my goal is to have like people like you in Great Bishop and Tim Bernal say, that's a good show.

Cool. Cool. Well, you know. But that is such a hard balance, man. It is. It's like almost the hardest thing I've ever tried to develop to be a lot. honest with you. So, but if I, you know, I hope, hopefully I get a chance at least shoot a pilot. So, cool.

You know, well, you know, we're all in your corner. Oh, sure. Well, look, going back to the UFO community, Steve. You know, we've heard some of the most incredible stories and, uh, some are just borderline crazy. Like, let's, let's be honest here. And I love, and I love them. I love them to see, man.

And that's why we love this field. And the, yes. They come from people telling them, uh, who, I don't I hate singling people out or alienating people but they gain these huge followings almost like a cult like mentality so why maybe someone like Corey good okay you said it I didn't say it but why do you think that is man do you think there's like a place for people like this in the quote unquote UFO community absolutely now I would when you said we started even saying this I looked over my bookshelf and I saw and this is asynchronous but messengers of deception one of my favorite favorite favorite books about the UFO topic really lays out like really lays out it's almost predicting people like Cory Goode and David Wilcox and I'm not judging them they're doing what they're doing and that's fine but they they have taken this angle of not or not UFO researchers people who know the truth

and if you listen to us you are going to find out what the truth is and that is basically sort of the same thing as a cult leader or any you know every religion started as as a cult even Catholicism it was all a cold it wasn't you know originally it was probably just eight dudes going hey how do we control people you know and I largely feel like if you read if you got messengers of this section is such an important book to reread right now I can't even say that enough but Jacques valet warns about these types of people coming into this field and you know, co-opting the UFO topic into a metaphysical, I've got the answer, listen to me, you know, if you give me, you know, $20 or something like this.

I'll tell you more. I mean, it really is, you know, like, and so I mean, I find all that stuff deeply fascinating, too. You know, people's like just need to believe in something incredibly sensational, you know, like, and so UFOs as religion is definitely a thing in my eyes. You know, it really is. And it's a new religion. And Carl Young, he wrote, you know, I read his book that he wrote about UFOs towards the universe life.

I can't remember the title. But he talks about this, you know, like, this is a mythology for the 20th century. So it's really fascinating because I feel like a lot, you know, not a lot of these guys, but, you know, a handful of, and it's usually always white men, of course, who are like these types of UFO, like culty luminaries. But, like, you know, it's, it's. really, it's funny to me to watch it. That's another good TV show I did too.

Absolutely. I'm like a good type guy. But I mean, like, honestly, like, yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of all ridiculous. But I love, for some reason, I like that it's in the field. It's funny to me. It kind of keeps me compelled. I check in with what those guys are doing every once in a while.

I like the weird stuff, man. I can tell, man. But you're so right. The UFO lore or mythology or field, I don't know what the fuck to call it anymore. That being said, it repeats itself over and over again. You have the contactees. You have the abductees in the 80s and 90s.

Now we have these dudes claiming, you know, they were working with Obama on Mars in a secret soldier program. Absolutely. And you know what, Ryan? It's like it goes back even further than that when you read, you know, the works of valet and stuff like passport to McGone. It's like these patterns of like, you know, abductees, contactees. And it's undeniable when you read the work of Belight that this stuff has been going on for a long, long time. Like thousands of years, probably before man, you know? Like, so it's almost like these patterns that it just alters itself as we evolve technologically.

You know, it's very strange. It's very strange. Pasoca all over again, man. It really is. And who, I mean, like, even, you know, you deep dive into Diana Walsh's book and a Belize book. And you're like, how many religions that are. still around today, we're started by potentially UFO incident. Maybe. I don't know. You know, it's a, but it's food for thought, for sure.

It's food for thought. And, you know, the idea of deception, I struggle with it because, like, I believe that there's 99% of alien abduction testimony and everything is either, you know, regressed memories of trauma or, uh, delusion or straight up just bullshitting. But then there's like, dude, there's always that one percent where I'm like, holy. Oh, yeah. I believe. I'm with you. See, I totally agree. Like, I mean, like, you know, like even like looking at like the Travis, you know, some of the big, big, you know, abductee case like Travis Walden, Willie Streber. I actually believe, like you said earlier, I believe that they believe. So that is enough for me to be really interested, you know, in a weird way.

Because we'll never know for sure, you know, like, it's not like, you know, Travis Walton's going to produce, like, concrete evidence at this point or Whitley for that matter. Yeah. But the way they did talk, I mean, it's, I find it very compelling. I don't want to throw out these cases, you know. And I'm actually, I love the John Max book, Abduction back in the day, scared that hell out of me as a kid. Yeah. That was a very powerful book. And I think it's like, you know, whether or not any of it's true, it almost doesn't matter to me anymore.

You know, like it's just interesting. It really is. And I feel like there's just something going on that's non-human. You know, like that's all I know. know, it's the only conclusion I can make of all this stuff is like, I believe there is a phenomenon. I believe we have no idea. And we're probably not even close to an answer. And we probably never will be. That's going to be the, that's going to be the opening buffer for the episode. I'm marking it. I'm marking it right here, actually.

Yeah. None of these things I'm saying is original thought at all. It's just, you know, it's really probably, it's pulling from your show, pulling from your show, pulling from Greg show, Tim's show, and all the books I've read. So it's just, you know, it's weird. because I kind of, I sort of, like, refound the UFO top because I'd grown up loving it, but there was like this, like, kind of lag period, I think, around like 2008 or something like that. I'm like, oh, I'm just tired of reading the forums.

Nothing's new. And then I started hearing, like, Greg's show. And people started to talk about Jacques Valet and Junkiel. I was like, ooh, hold on. Yeah, yeah. This stuff isn't dead yet, man. It's Dracula, dude. You take the stake out and you start all over again.

Exactly. I'll always be interested in this stuff, man. I root for it. I want more information. I hope this disclosure thing is the real deal. And maybe we get like, you know, some more light shined on this and we can get maybe an answer or two would be really cool. Or even just, you know, they would elaborate more on maybe some of the patterns that they've found with these objects that are flying around the sky. I would love to know because that would be, that would be incredible.

Even that they're like, we've noticed a pattern with these things. I mean, like, that would be so cool to know. But beyond that, I just don't think it's going to bear the fruit that everyone wants. I would have to agree. I don't think we're ever going to fully know the truth. But, you know, there's people like you and Greg and all the UFO researchers, no matter what their belief system are or their approach. Like, we're all just stumbling along on the journey. I think that's way more important or rewarding than like actually finding that one answer because there probably isn't one. No, I just don't think there really is an answer in like, in the way we perceive answers being answered. Exactly. That is such a weird, like, garbled, weird thing to say. But, like, I just, you know, like, it's, it's, I don't think it's something that we could even perceive as an answer.

Yeah, I believe that there's something going on. So I just, yeah, it's, it's such a hard thing because, like, you know, like, I'm sure you run across this thing. And, like, I do all the time when people are like, oh, man, you love the UFO stuff. I totally believe aliens are real. I'm like, sure, I believe there's aliens out there. And then I told me, like, but I don't think, you know, necessarily that they've ever. visited Earth. In fact, I don't. You know, I don't believe that a biological

alien has, intelligent alien, has ever been on this planet. I just don't see any real evidence for that. And they're like, wait, what? And then that totally confuses that. And I'm like, oh boy, do you have like two hours for me to explain what I... So it's a tough topic to talk about. It is. That's why the show is a real treat.

Oh, yeah, thanks, man. Well, I mean, it is. It's that constant struggle of trying to separate E.T. from the UFO. And we we try to, we try to yell that from the rooftops. Like, we're talking about UFOs. We're not talking about aliens and little saucers. Maybe, but that's not what, not what we're trying to get across.

Yeah, and I'm not saying that's not it either. Yeah. I just, but there's, but I think it's funny that that is really, and I think it's actually people of minds are being opened up quite a bit more. These in the last, like, year or two with like, because then now here, people say, like, well, maybe they're interdimensional. And these are people just kind of like, who are into the topic. I'm like, okay, well, at least another option is getting out there for people, which I think is good, you know, so.

Totally. But, yeah, it's funny that, you know, I guess probably goes back to Kenneth Arnold and Roswell, the Roswell era, that people just, you know, we were kind of in the whole, you know, was launching it to the whole space race thing. And, you know, that was what was in the Zichist at the time. So people were like, oh, well, they're obviously from space. Yeah, it all started with Kenneth Arnold and Roswell. God damn. It did. Yeah.

Or God bless them. Or God bless them, yes. They seemingly started a religion without meaning to. But, um, exactly. Well, what, uh, what, are there any cases, Steve that you really, when, when you do have those friends who are like, dude, UFOs, like, when they find out you're into this sort of stuff. Right.

What cases do you turn them to where you're like, this is what shows there's a core phenomenon. It's a credible thing. Like, are there any that really come to mind? Yeah. Oh, boy. You know, like, Paul Kimball, I think, sure, Paul Kimball, and that guy, what was it, UFO's best evidence? Oh, yeah, Paul Kimbo.

You know, the top 10 cases years ago. And I thought, I thought he kind of hit on probably a lot of the mainstream ones. God, I'm really drawing a blank on those. No, that was fine. I know he's just like Rendell Schum and. Yeah, Reckstberg. Yeah, Reynolds Shum is very interesting. Kexburg.

I mean, you know, I think something happened. I don't think it was a UFO. I actually went out to the site. My wife is from close to that area. Okay. Yeah, there was not much there. But I did see the acorn statute, which is cool. Yeah.

But I can tell you that it's funny because, like, I don't really have go-to cases that I point to as like, dude, see, see? But I have ones that I think about a lot myself. Oh, okay. And the Herbert Shimmer one, Ashley Nebraska. Dude, I just covered that. Oh, no way. I, uh, dude, see, I'm from Omaha, Nebraska, and Ashland is like 25 miles away. So that was always kind of like a really important case just kind of, you know, sort of happened to my backyard.

Actually, over Christmas, I went to go, uh, meet with somebody from the library who gave me, who let me see the police report. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I went to like a restaurant to try to talk to some old timers and they were like, oh, yeah, we knew him. And then people ran him out of town, you know. Yeah. It's a very sad case. And that would be all kind of said.

He goes, he was kind of a sad guy. And I was like, oh, man, that's, it has a really unhappy ending, you know? Yeah, he changed his stuff. It really ruined his life. In covering it on the show, like, I had the amazing opportunity and resource to get some, some audio from him, like, recounting everything. Oh, cool. It's a little creepy. Again, it's one of those cases where I'm like, what the hell did this dude have to gain from coming out with the story?

And she ruined him. It ruined him. I mean, to the point where he, like you said, he changed his name, he moved out of state. He lost his job at the police department. Yeah, I mean, it did nothing. He benefited. I mean, it just took everything from him. But he stuck to it till, like, his dying day, which to me is like, all right, either

this dude, like, was so delusional that he started to actually believe his own story or something truly strange happened to him. I tend to think that he, again, going back to what you said earlier, I think it's so important, man, I'm going to keep on bringing up. I believe he believes what he saw. I do. I've, like, looked into this case since I was a kid. And, like, there's not a whole lot to read about it, unfortunately,

other than what, you know, you can easily find on the internet. Yeah. But, man, I just don't see that he made this up. I, you know, like, in terms of just, like, pulling that out thin air, I think either, you know, he had some kind of delusional episode or some kind of fugue state or he would have to something truly anomalous. And we have to remember, too, that he did go under hypnotic regression, which can be very detrimental and very contentious. Dude, yes, it's crazy. It's actually weird.

Hypnosis is getting big with just general therapy in Los Angeles. Is it? I have a friend who's, he goes to, you know, everyone in L.A. has a therapist. And one of my friends is going to like a really like, you know, prestigious, like expensive fancy therapist who's like really credited. And he's in this therapist is putting him into hypnosis. And I'm like, whoa, buddy, be careful. And he's like, I love it, man. It's like, I'm getting in touch with my inner child.

I'm like, okay, but, uh, just, you know, be careful. If you hear the word like alien abduction come up, right. Or three gray staring at my window. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just call me first. Yeah, exactly. We'll hash it out before you talk to the therapist. I've never talked about UFOs so intensely at this time of day.

Yeah, I know, right. So it's a night, you know, after maybe a bong rip and a couple beers with some buddies or something. Isn't weird? Yeah, most of these shows and everything are always like coast to coast. You know, it's like two in the morning. But, no, I work an evening job. So, like, unfortunately, the mornings are always like the best. me and everyone always says the same thing like it's too early to talk about this shit no i love it this

gets the day started up right i'm you know buzzed on coffee and uh this is fun yeah awesome dude well that's good to hear for sure so what other cases could you turn us to man well for modern the the the the case that blew me away and got me so excited i think was the that that's happened the last 20 years would be the o'hare uh international the chicago airport case absolutely That is so fascinating because there were so many witnesses. Pilots, people who worked for United Airlines, people who were just in the airports, they all described the exact same thing. And it was really, it's really weird, right?

It's really weird. And like, whatever it was, it literally, like, pierced a hole through the clouds and, like, took off. Yeah, I mean, it's that case, that, I'm always so saying, I remember, do you ever hear the rumor that Dan Eggroyd supposedly paid, like, million dollars for like footage of it. Yeah, that would not surprise. I heard that years ago, but I, you know, I've yet to see anything

come out with that. I'm still hoping if I ever see Dan Eckroy in L.A., man, that's the first thing I'm going to ask him. Yep, yeah, I know. Give me the O'Hara goodies, please. Supposedly there is video footage. I've heard that from several services. But again, who am I?

Like, they could be totally making that shit up. But yeah, I mean, but there's got to be. I want to produce one. My God. I mean, I just thought that was such a crazy case. And I remember, you know, like, even like, I think to this day, it was the most hits the Chicago Tribune had ever had. Oh, yeah, shut down their website. Yeah, you like broke their website.

Like, there, I mean, there's some great, like, footage of the, the new, the local, like, newscasters, like, off camera talking about it. And they're like, holy shit. I'm so bad. That was hilarious. It's crazy. It's so funny. I love it. I actually, in terms of maybe it's not, you know, on the surface, a UFO case.

but Jacques-Fleck kind of convinced me otherwise that the Thadama incident to me feels like one of the most exciting potential UFO cases. Can you imagine like these these kids or whatnot and then eventually a lot of people were thinking they're having like a miraculous experience meantime? It's like a being from Zeta reticuline. Yeah, exactly. Maybe 12. Who knows? It's both, dude. Like I think, well, it's also weird.

It's like, you know, what's interesting, there's a chapter in one of Valet's books where he writes about the year before on the same day, these kids actually saw these beings. Really? So it was like this was not like an isolated incident. But the Fatima one just got a lot more buzz and press and had a lot more witnesses. But this had happened the year prior. Wow, I had no idea. Yeah, it's, it's, I can't remember what book it is. I think it might be, I don't know if you've read Jean Valet's Forbidden Science series where it's just as journals.

That's the only one. I have not read. Yeah. So, yeah, he's got a volume one through four. And I've only read one through three, but man, they are so important to read into this stuff. I feel like it's almost like my favorite UFO stuff is his journals. Because it's like, it is deep and it is personal.

And it is really like he is really trying to hash this stuff out. Yeah. And it is so deeply fascinating. My God. Yeah. It's interesting to have seen the trajectory valet has taken, you know, since he started all this. And now he kind of has not turned his back on UFO studies, but at least on the UFO field and community. And a big part of me does not blame him one bit.

Works. Yeah. It's sobering to say the least. But he's done. It is. He's done, like, proposing these theories and getting his information out there. In turn, you have these cult leaders and these charlatans just, like, sucking off the valetite as it was. Yeah.

Yeah. No, it's, it is, I think, like, I don't even know where this field would be. Imagine it without that guy. You know, like, it really is hard to imagine the UFO field that Jacques Life for me, because without the work of his work, I would not, I probably would have lost interest 10, 15 years ago, to be honest. Same. When I kind of rediscovered him, you know, 10 years ago, it was, I all of a sudden I had never been more interested in UFOs. Yeah.

You know, like, it's just. He's going to places where I feel like it's just, the one disappointing thing is, is I wish more people would follow us lead and kind of like go down the paths that he's lighting for all of us. And like you are and like Greg is, and by I wish it still feels like a small faction of us, uh, jacquillade devotees.

You know, like I always kind of term like, you know, people who were into the jacquilet stuff like, you know, Greg and like Red Pill junkie and those guys in, uh, the punk rock of UFO. Yeah. You know, like that. Absolutely, man. Like going against the norm and.

Yeah. We should start the, uh, the valet cast, I think. Dude, I'm so in. I'm in. I'm in. I look like a card care member. Yeah. Because that's where, really where my interest lies is, is in all these thought experiments

and just try to take the topic as far as you can, you know, like, because I, I don't, when, the one problem with, with, when people get to, I think, attached to all the, you know, the government stuff being the answer and, you know, the conspiracy stuff. of it's just, it's almost like you've made up your mind and just said, I'm going to stop learning. The government knows and tell them the given the answers. You know, it's like, I'm like, yeah, but you're not really learning anything new. And it just seems like also such a negative, like, kind of like, I'm really not, I'm really not a big conspiracy theory guy. Like, I find it so, I find it very toxic, especially nowadays where people take them so literally.

I mean, go bored. How boring, man, like trust, they're not trusting, but how boring would it be to accept the answer by the government about UFOs. Like you said, they've been probably lying for a really long time and not lying about being in cohorts with the aliens or just like lying that they're in control of it or that they know what's going on. They don't know anything. They don't.

And that makes me really be sympathetic to their situation. You know, if you think about it, if they were to come out in 1950, they're like, look, There are these crafts that appear to be physical and they're controlled by non-human intelligence and we can't do anything about it. Anyways, you know. Anyway, here's Wonderwall. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, no kidding.

So you can kind of like see how, you know, not that one of these people was like, oh, we came out with the UFO knowledge, like, you know, society would completely collapse. I don't think that would be the case. Yeah. But I do think it would potentially be. you know, hurtful to the government military if they, you know, admitted that there's something that's out of their control. They are a control system. And when a control system admits they're out of control, the control system fails. So perfect. Yep, I couldn't, I couldn't summarize that any better, my friend. Well, okay, so moving or to sort of your current work, which we can connect to

to UFOs, absolutely. This is what I was really excited to get you on, you know, other than talking about it over an hour about UFOs. Voyage to the Stars. This is so cool, man. How did this come to be? How did you get involved? Give us sort of the origin story of Voyage to the Stars. Right.

Okay, cool. Yeah. Well, Voyage to the Stars is a science fiction, it's a science fiction improvised podcast that kind of plays upon like all the big science fiction tropes, Battlestar Galatica, Star Trek, yada, yada, yada. It kind of plays with all those and flips them around. and turns into a sort of a dark comedy.

So I got involved. I, for years and years and years and years, kind of made my bones in the improv and sketch comedy stages in L.A. And so I got approached by the creator, Ryan Cople, to do this show. And, you know, because he knew I was an improviser and also kind of knew that was into space stuff, I suppose.

Geek, geek, the geek world, whatever. I don't know. But, so anyways, yeah, we got together and it's, you know, Colton Dunn, who was a legendary improviser and on the show Superstores on it. Felicia Day, who was a great improviser and also just kind of like, you know,

a internet queen. She is a, you know, very large figure. And then Jenna Barney, who is another wonderful comedian on a lot of TV shows and stuff like that. And yeah, so it just kind of, luckily it all worked out

so none of us had ever ever really improvised together. So, yeah, we, it's kind of like a curbier enthusiasm type situation where we get like a brief outline of what the episode is, the story we need to drive forward, and we just kind of go up and around and improvise the dialogue. That's really cool. Again, like, it's not really, in my opinion, really been done in the podcasting world. It's like, yeah, you have these scripted stories that have the whole thing outlined and planned for the beginning.

But like, you guys are like discovering, discovering, like, the story on the way. That's really interesting. It is fun. It's a fun way because you have to really be on your toe. So it is like, you know, it's like playing music where you really have to be present and really, really listen. Because it's not like we're doing like an improv show like on stage where it's like, you know, we get a suggestion of orange peel and create a 40 minute show off that. This we're actually having to tell a very somewhat complicated narrative while improvising the dialogue. So it is quite challenging to be honest.

Like, even though I've been improvising for over 15 years, and it's still probably the hardest thing in the improv realm that I've ever had to do. But it's been a ton of fun, man. So it's been great. And we're doing, you know, we're doing quite a few live shows around L.A. in San Francisco. And I'm actually going to Nashville today to go. We're going to go do some shows this weekend.

Yeah, it'll be a lot of fun. The live performing is really the most fun for me because that's kind of what I grew up doing. So it's interesting how well a podcast works live. I was very skeptical of working, but I'm shocked. Yeah, because it really is just like you're just doing a live show, like a live comedy show. Cool. And you know what? It really is, I think, the wave of the future when it comes to both comedy and radio.

It's like mixing these two worlds together that may not have, oh, yeah, I mean, we've had comedy radio shows since the dawn of the radio. But at the same time, like, this idea of podcasting, it's, it seems old at this point, but it's actually still fairly new. And the fact that, like, the comedy world is tapped into that and taken advantage of that. It's super exciting. I could not agree with you more. I think this is like, well, it's here to stay, whether we like it or not. And I mean, and I can tell you just from, like, I mean, I know, like, all these production companies out in L.A. are now developing podcast productions offshoots.

So they are, it really is a race to monetize podcast right now. I think so. And vice versa. You know, a lot of TV and movies now are based directly off of podcasts. I mean, absolutely, totally. It is a cycle for sure. Yeah, but I think they're great, though, because it's like, you know, largely free content. And then, you know, obviously with anything like TV, movies and podcasts, you have to kind of like weed through some crap to get to the good stuff.

But when you find a good podcast, man, like yours, I mean, you know, it's something I look forward to. It's like, you know, it's like appointment TV. It's like when, you know, when a new podcast comes out, I'm really excited about it, you know, especially because I spend a lot of time in my car living in L.A. So, right. I find them, I'm very grateful for the podcast world. Me too. I mean, obviously. Yeah.

Yeah, it's great, though, man. Like, your show is important, you know, and we may not be able to hear it if there wasn't podcast. So it's, uh, damn, man, I'm a fan. I'm a fan. I really appreciate that, dude. And like I said off air, like, you don't realize when you see. start this podcast thing, how much you can actually affect people or how many people actually listen? Like every week, I'm like, oh, cool, it did okay. But then you have, you know, I had a guy

say he had just gotten through a divorce and he was depressed and he said, like, I listen to your show every week and it really kept me going or if I could keep people distracted from the horrible shit in their lives or the boring stuff in their lives. Yep. Like that job well done. The fact that people may actually get something from the show, that's all I could ever ask for. Well, I think that should be, it'd be great if all artists felt that way. You know, truly, like, I mean, like, I'm not trying to sound like this altruistic, you know, like, oh, man, I'm just doing it for the art. But, like, I do believe that as well. Like, the only reason I, you know, gravitated towards entertainment is because, like, how can I, like, not the only reason.

Obviously, a lot of it's self-serving. But, like, I feel like this is the way I can help society a little bit. I'm not, you know, I am not, I couldn't be a doctor, I couldn't be a lawyer, I couldn't do a lot of things, but I feel like, you know, I can make people giggle and maybe forget over the problems for a minute or two. So, I love that. It sounds like, oh, man, how pretentious. But, like, it is true, like you said. Like, it's cool when you find out that a podcast you did or any kind of piece of art you did affected people. That's kind of the goal, right?

It is. At the end of the day, like, we all are striving, like, to connect with one another. I think so, too. evoke a reaction out of someone or a complete stranger, like job out done. I couldn't agree more. And that's why I feel like music and all. Music and art is like the only like positive thing left in the world right now.

And man, so we have to hold onto it tight. Take care of free, free expression. Yeah, we laugh because it's true. We laugh because it's true, man. It's, uh, yeah, I was reading the paper before, uh, I got on with you. I'm like, Jesus Christ.

Oh, my. God. Let's forget that and let's talk about you. Yeah. God, I'm just waiting for Ryan to call me. Pull me out of this muck. Well, Steve, it has been such an honor, man. I'm so happy I was able to get you on.

I got to ask you before we go, are you working on anything UFO related right now or you said you're heading to Nashville right after this? My God. I am. Get packing. Like what? Yeah. What do you got coming up yet? Well, a lot of podcast stuff this summer festivals and all the whatnots and comedy.

I always do a lot of comedy festivals in summer anyway. It's just fun to do. The summer is typically slower out here. It's people get lazy in Hollywood or taking vacation. So right now, honestly, I'm working on a show, an animated show on Netflix called Hoops. Awesome. Yeah. And so I'm, you know, kind of a regular character on that.

And so that's really, I've been most of what I've been working on last month or so it's been kind of dedicated towards that, but it is going to be, I feel like it's the funniest thing I've ever been a part of, so I'm really excited about it. I've been kind of like really wanting to get on a really good animated show.

It's been kind of a big dream of mine, so I feel like, oh man, I feel like this is the right one. I love it. The writing is bananas. It's so, so, so, so good. And, uh, yeah, so that's, that's kind of what I'm working on the next, like, month.

And then after that, I'm going to just kind of take some vacations and do some writing. And then back in the fall, I'll be, you know, maybe returning to this show. And, you know, back to auditions and back to looking for work. Back to the grind, man. To the grind, man, yeah. And also. I like that summer is a little slower, though, because it's like January and, like, May has been just insane for me.

So I'm like, ready to slow it down a little bit. Maybe do a little fly for me. Yeah. Well, well, deserve vacation. I can't thank you enough for coming on today. Where can we find out what you're, uh, find out what you're, up to and where to find voyage. Yeah, I don't do like social media a ton, but I'm trying to get better at it.

So if you want to follow me on those things, my handle is Bergmaster 5000 on Twitter and Instagram. So you can probably find out any kind of show I'm doing or whatnot. But if you live in Nashville and you're a time traveler, come to the show this weekend. I'll get your free ticket to say you're a friend of Ryan's. Oh, I love that, man. Got to love those deals. Steve, thank you so much for joining me on somewhere.

Any damn time, I had an absolute blast. This is so fun talking with you, dude. You get it. You get it. That is it for this week's episode. Again, thanks to Steve Berg. You could check him out on drunk history on Comedy Central. And be sure to go back and watch his drunk retelling of the Roswell UFO incident.

Again, AlienCon Los Angeles is quickly approaching. It's going to be a crazy few days. So I hope you can join me and many other UFO and paranormal podcasts as we dive deep into why we do these shows. I'll be giving my own solo presentation and also taking part on several panels and doing live podcast recordings of Summer in the Skies and Unknown with an audience. You can join us on June 21st, 22nd, and 23rd. Get tickets at the AlienCon.com and use the promo code Skies for discount tickets. it. Please subscribe, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts, your Android apps, or wherever you listen to the show from. It helps us gain visibility and find new listeners. Be sure to check

out the merch store on T-Public. That's T-E-E-E-E-Public.com, and just search for the Summer in the Sky's store. We're on Twitter at SummerSkies and Instagram at SummerSky's Pod. Thank you, as always, to the E-1 Podcast Network, K-G-GRA Radio, Rogue Planet, and and to you for listening. I'll see you here next week, and remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching.

Somewhere in the Skies. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by third-kind productions in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network. To learn more, visit Entertainment One Podcast.com. In reality, UFOs are seen by people from all walks of life every day all around the world. They've also been officially investigated by the U.S. government and by governments of several other countries, too.

That's just a small element of what makes the strange UFOs topic so incredibly fascinating and fun to explore. That's what we do on the UFO podcast, Unknown. I'm Jason McClellan, and I invite you to explore the weird and wonderful world of UFOs with me and my friends and colleagues on Unknown. Unknown is available on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, IHeartRadio, Spotify, and all the usual podcast places.