Somewhere in the Skies - Stories with Sapphire

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

On episode 157 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we are taking a sharp turn and heading down the spectral path of the paranormal and supernatural with Sapphire Sandalo. No stranger to the unknown, Sapphire navigates us through her own personal journey of Filipino folklore and familial stories. She then shares some of her favorite accounts of the strange, the dark, the light, and the mystifying from her hit new podcast, Stories with Sapphire. Then, she and Ryan tackle the Ouija board, simulation theory, and the possibility of a phenomenal string between all the weird worlds we call home.  Guest Bio: Sapphire Sandalo is an animator, host, and writer in Los Angeles. She created the web series and podcast "Something Scary" back in 2016. She is a recurring Paranormal Expert on "Paranormal Caught On Camera" on Travel Channel, and the upcoming "Paranormal Nightshift" on T&E. She is a part-time professor at Loyola Marymount University, where she teaches a class about the importance of diversity and accurate representation in animation and entertainment. In her spare time, she practices her tarot reading skills and enjoys learning about other occult knowledge. She created "Stories With Sapphire" to celebrate supernatural experiences from around the world, and to create more cultural diversity within the paranormal community. Learn more at: www.sapphiresandalo.com Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is edited by Jane Palomera Moore Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Terms apply. Today on the show, content creator, podcast host, and animator Sapphire Sandalo. It sort of is like a chicken or the egg situation because spirits can drain you. If you are living in a haunted home, you may become depressed and anxious and just physically and mentally drained. But then on the other hand, if you are already in a dark place for whatever reason, that can also draw the spirits in. So it's sort of, it goes both ways. This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan Sprague. You tell us a little about yourself, how you first got interested in the paranormal, the supernatural?

Yeah, give us that origin story. So when I was younger, my grandpa used to tell me these really amazing stories of when he lived in the Philippines. And there actually is a couple tapes that I have of him where he's telling these stories. And that was sort of my first introduction to not only Filipino folk. but the paranormal in general. And ever since then, I became hooked because I was like, well, if my grandpa saw these monsters and sees ghosts and spirits, then they must be true, right? And then I later found out that everyone else in my family also had an amazing paranormal story. And it's sort of just snowballed from there. I, like, as a kid, I was actually an incredible

scary cat, but I still loved ghost stories. And yeah, so I, when I went to school, I studied animation. And then when I pitched my first paranormal show on YouTube, I combined my love of animation and ghost stories. And then that's how it all started. Yeah, I kind of want to touch on that before we get to Stories with Sapphire, the podcast. Your animation career, you're a professor as well. Can you tell us a little about sort of that journey and how you got involved with animation? Yeah, I've always been a visual artist. I always drew as a kid. So when I went to college, I decided to major in animation because it felt like it combined everything that I loved. Like I love visual storytelling and filmmaking and music and animation felt like it was just like the right combination of everything. And so after I graduated, it took a couple years, but I finally was able to become a freelance animation.

and character designer in the animation industry. So I've worked on really random adult comedy series that I'm sure you've never watched. And then a couple years after that is when I was a, I met this girl who started a YouTube channel with this company and they were looking for female animators to pitch shows. And so I pitched this idea that I had. Eventually it was called something scary, but it was an idea that I had for years where I would tell ghost stories, hopefully true ghost stories, and then add a little bit of animation to it. Yeah, so I mean, in terms of the animation, how is it one of these, what came first, the chicken or the egg?

Do you like, would you get the story or write the story and then animate it? Or how does that process work when you're dealing with either like pre-existing material or, yeah, yeah, how does that all work as an artist? So for all types of filmmaking, the story always comes first, and then you add the visual element to it after. Otherwise, you know, you're going to be doing a lot of extra drawings that you don't need. So the first handful of episodes of something scary were all just from my friends and family. And so I just use that as the framework of the show and then added little animations to it. It's actually kind of funny because the animation style of, of the show came about because I was trying to figure out a way where I could easily make these every week and not burn out so quickly. But then it sort of became the style of the show. So I stuck with it. In terms of that, Stories with Sapphire, how did this come about? And what did you, what did you set out to do with this project? So I actually left the company that owned something

scary back in October. I didn't own any of the content. And I, I didn't own any of the content. And I, I just felt it was easier for me to leave instead of try to work out a new contract with them because I tried to do that and it didn't work out well. So I was like, you know what? I'm just going to leave the show and see what I feel like doing. And to be completely honest, I was working on my old show for like almost three years. And for a good chunk of that time, it was just me. I did everything. And it really burned me out really fast. And it kind of made me hate go stories and it just made me think like, it made me pause because I was like, hang on a second, this thing, like I, I love ghost stories. And now all of a sudden I don't want to read any of

these. I don't want to think about it. Like something's wrong here. So I need to step back from it a little bit. And so after I quit my job, I really dived deep into learning more about Filipino folklore, Filipino mythology and history. And it was in this research that I realized that I really have this passion for sharing these stories. Like it's, it's always been something that's been on my mind. Even when I was a kid, I was aware that Filipinos weren't in the media, but I never really thought that much of it. So diversity is something that's always been very important to me. I know it's like such a buzzword right now, but actually that's what my college courses that I teach. It's diversity and representation in media. I am a Filipino-American

woman, and the lack of Filipino-American representation in Armenia is very clear to me. And so after I quit my job, I started diving deep into Filipino folklore, mythology, and history because, you know, It was something that I had always been interested in and known enough about, but I finally had this time to really dive deep into it. Also because I was trying to write a TV pitch for an animated horror TV show, and so I wanted to do the research. And while I was doing this research, it hit me that, you know, maybe I should really focus on sharing these types of stories and Filipino history because there's so much that I learned within the past year that I'm sure so many other Filipino Americans don't know about either. And it made me realize like, okay, maybe this is my new calling. And so, and even with something scary, I included so many Filipino kids. characters and stories and Asian characters in general just because that's always my default,

because I am so aware when I'm watching shows where, like, I mean, white people are kind of the default. And so I tried to do the opposite of that. Yeah. But then now with Stories of Sapphire, I'm really making it like the forefront. Like, this is a very Filipino show. Like, there's a couple episodes where I don't talk about Filipino stuff. For the most part, it's very Filipino. And when I started stories with Sapphire. I knew that I wanted to really focus on Filipino stories and culture and history, not only just because I think that the world needs to hear these stories, but also for me, because I'm learning about this too. And so for me, stories with Sapphire is sort of this real-time documentation of my own new spiritual journey. Like I have spoken with Filipino healers and people who, Filipino mediums. And, and. And I'm learning so much about Filipino culture and I'm having a blast. It's so good to hear that, you know, in producing something like a podcast that there's always room to learn. I mean, I'm about 150 or so episodes in myself.

And now I feel like it's not even about the show or my end of it. It's the stories I'm hearing and the lessons I'm learning. And, you know, for better or worse, it's, it helps you. It helps you with your own life. And it's a lot more of a, I guess, a selfish endeavor when I really think about it, which isn't a bad thing. I mean, I think we're all into these topics of the unknown or the paranormal or UFOs because we want answers for ourselves, first and foremost, you know, in terms of our own journey. So, yeah, it's good to hear that that you're finding that as well. And when you mentioned the stories of your grandfather, this really caught my attention in your first

episode. It was the story of the Menehune. Now, my girlfriend was born and raised on Oahu, so I've become pretty accustomed to the legends as an outsider. But I was wondering, could you maybe talk a little about this local legend of Hawaii, which isn't even, you know, a Filipino legend? But am I correct, your grandparents moved to Hawaii? Yes. So my, yeah, so this is my mom's dad and mom. The first, Hawaii was the first state that they moved to from the Philippines. And so the Menehune are thought to be this invisible race of small statured, magical people living in Hawaii.

And not everybody can see them, but their thought to just be existing alongside people on the islands. And so my mom, she has three other siblings. And so it was my mom and her parents and then her siblings living there in Hawaii. And there was one day where her youngest brother just disappeared for hours. Nobody knew where he was. He was maybe three years old, I think. And when they finally found him, because he just like walked back up to the house and they were like, where were you for the last couple of hours? And he said, I was playing with the little people. And this is like, this is a story that is passed down in our family lore just because it's so ridiculous. But since my family already believed in the Menehune, they were like, whoa, that's probably who he was with. And he doesn't remember this at all. He was way too young. But the other moment in. their lives where they had, I get, like, more evidence that these people exist was when they were reconcreating, reconcreating, is that a word?

Let's go with that. Yeah. Yeah, they were reconcreating steps in front of their house. And so it was wet cement. And so they blocked it off. And my grandpa told everybody, don't step on these steps or I'm going to get real mad. And then the following morning, he goes, sees the steps. and there's a tiny little footprint and he's super, super pissed.

But then when he looks at it a little bit more carefully, he realizes that the foot doesn't really seem like it would match one of his children's feet because the proportions aren't. It was a small footprint, but the proportions were that of an adult. And so that didn't make any sense to him. And he also noticed this little line above the big toe as if the big toenail was curling in, was really long and curling downward. And so to him, he thought that that was maybe a Menehune who stepped on the cement, realized that they had made this mark and then ran away. Wow, interesting.

Yeah. These stories are so captivating, I think, and almost endearing, because when you think of like these little creatures of some sort and the mischief they sort of get up to, I remember even like in the airport, all the under construction signs had like little. menahune all over, you know, with their little hammer and everything. So that, it's, it's amazing how folklore continues to, I guess, you know, influence the culture, even today. And I know this is huge in the, in the stories you tell on your show, too. And another thing in your, your first episode that really caught my attention was the Oswan. And I had never really heard this term before. So I was wondering, yeah, could you tell us a little about this sort of, I guess you would say it's like, kind of like an all-encompassing folklore almost?

Yeah. So the Oswang is sort of, or the term Oswong is kind of an umbrella term for shapeshifting demons. So there's a couple different types of Oswong. One other type is the Mononongol. So it's shapeshifting because it appears as a woman during the day. And then at night she has the ability to separate her upper body from the rest of her body. And she grows wings and she flies around and she searches for. like unborn baby fetuses to eat. And then she reconnects with the bottom half of her body.

So that's one type of Oswong. But basically the main features of an Oswong is that they have the ability to shape shift. So in general, Oswongs are one of the most feared creatures in the Philippines. One reason why is because they so easily blend in with the population. Because during the day, they appear as normal human beings. And then at night is when they go hunting for flood. So you'd ever really know if your neighbor or your family member is an aweslong. And that's why people are freaked out by it. Wow. It sort of, to me, compares to these theories in the UFO slash alien, I guess, abduction lore of these hybrids almost of a alien and human, you know, going through everyday life.

And we would never know, you know, that they were actually half aliens. So, yeah. Yeah. It's a cautionary tale to say the least. Oh, for sure. Yeah, the idea that, yeah, just like people invading bodies or like impersonating people, like that is just something that across the board people are terrified of. Well, something else I found really interesting was in your third episode. You tackled a topic that I have kind of been doing some research on and off again for the past few years for a project.

And that's dreams, Sapphire. And you tackle everything from sleep paralysis to share dreams and dreams within dreams. Now, these are things I'd never even thought of. I thought, you know, you have a dream when you go to sleep. You wake up. You might remember it. You might not. But the more meta you get, the more crazy it seems.

So, yeah, I was wondering, what made you want to tackle dreams? I knew that I wanted to do an episode dedicated to sleeping and dreams. because there's just so many different facets to dreams. And I am an incredibly vivid dreamer. There was a period of time where I lucid dreamed every single night. And there was a period of time where I kept having dreams within dreams. And that's what that poem is, where it was just like every single morning I would wake up. And then I'd wake up and wake up and wake up.

And I was just like, what does this mean? And why is this happening to me? It was so crazy. And then I also knew that there were shared dreams that people had experienced. And I knew about them because my family experienced them. The people that I interview in that episode, it's my cousin and my aunt. And that was a story that I had heard like, well, actually, no, they had a different shared dream, like much earlier than that. I think this one happened recently.

But yeah, so the concept of dreams playing a lot of different roles was not a new thing to me. But the meaning behind shared dreams was like it wasn't until after I interviewed my aunt that I learned that dreams can be a way for spirits to communicate with us. And because when we're in a dream state, we are the most vulnerable to spirits, to messages, to anything that we do not receive with our conscious mind. And something that's, and this is where actually, I don't know, I'm sure people listening will be. on board with this. I haven't told a lot of people about this because people are like, okay, you're just like, you're reaching here. But I kid you not a couple days ago, maybe it was last week, before I went to bed. And this is because I was, during the day, I had edited one of my new upcoming podcast episodes. And it was about this woman who had a couple spirit experiences and they

all happened while she was in that dream state. And so when I went to bed that night, I thought, I am open to any messages that anyone wants to send me. I am open to it. And I had that intention in my head before I went to bed. And then I had this very vivid dream. This is the dream I had right before I woke up. So it was very, those are usually the most vivid because you're like coming up, coming into the waking state. Yeah.

So, and I remember I saw this image. I won't say their names, but I have, it was weird. I was drawing one of my friends that I used to work with and that I hadn't spoken to in like so long. So it was weird that he was like in my dream. And then I drew him holding hands with this woman. And then in between them I drew like a small child. And then I wrote crossed over on top of the child. And I remember waking up and thinking, what the hell was that?

And I always have vivid dreams. But for some reason, this one felt different. And I don't know if it's because. I went to bed with that intention or if I'm just, you know, drawing conclusions because I'm like, I want this to be real. But I was like, you know what? I'm just going to ask him. I'm going to see if this means anything. Like, what's the harm in asking? So I messaged my friend who was in the drawing and I said, hey, I had dreamt this last night. Do you think this means anything? And he was like, well, I am seeing this woman who has a small son. Do you know, like, why? Do you have any other? like information on it. And I was like, no, that's like literally all I saw. But like, do you think you could ask her what she thinks it could mean? And he was like, well, I think it might freak her out because she is really into psychic stuff. And she's really paranoid right now because her son has

respiratory illnesses. And so if he catches COVID-19, he could get it really bad. And so if she sees that, you know, that you wrote crossed over on his chest that might freak her out. And so if she sees that, you know, you know, that's freak her out. And I was like, oh, my God. So this could all be nothing, but I feel like it was something. Like, I saw something. Like, what are the odds? I had no idea that he was dating this woman who had a child. I don't know. To me, it felt like I'm starting to open up these, starting to open up to these types of messages, whatever they might be. Right. And I think a lot of it comes down to interpretation too. I mean, you have literal dream interpreters out there who try to dismantle or, I guess, yeah, decode these things. And when it comes to something like that, I mean, it's hard

because you almost feel a responsibility that you do have to say something, you know? So I, it's a hard place to be in, I'm sure. And I think probably a lot of it has to do with the subconscious as well, you know, whether something influenced you somehow in knowing these things will never truly know. But, yeah, I find the whole dream thing fascinating, especially when you mentioned that this might be a way for spirits to communicate. I remember distinctly my grandfather passing away abruptly, and I was very, very close with him. And I just waited for years for some sort of sign or something, you know, that he was, he was around or this, that, this, that. And then I just remember one night I had, and I'm not a very vivid dreamer. I rarely remember

my dreams ever in my whole life. I remember this dream vividly where he was in the backyard. We were having like a family get together. Everyone was there. And he was in the background. He wasn't even in the forefront of the dream, nothing. But it was the first time I saw his face in like years, you know, other than like in a picture. And it's so crazy. I just like, my mind zoomed in on him amongst all the kids running around and the parents, you know, talking. And he kind of walked up to me in the dream and he just said, I'm here. What do you want to talk about?

And then I woke up. And oh, God. I've only told this story like once or twice to a few other people, my mom specifically, who it was her father. And, you know, it brought her to tears hearing that because she told me that she had the same exact dream as well, like months earlier. And I didn't know if that was because we were related or this was a shared dream experience. But until you came up with that term or said that term in your show, I hadn't thought about that in years. And it just like popped in my head. I'm like, oh, my God, we had like a shared dream.

So, yeah, I don't know what to make of it either. but it's fascinating. I'm so happy you covered that. Oh, yeah. And I love that. That's the reason why I love sharing these stories because you, you know, like it made you remember this like really significant moment in time. And it kind of gave you like a context like, oh, that's what it is.

It's a shared dream. Oh, other people experience that too. Oh, this is what it could mean. I think that more often than not, we are having supernatural experiences. but because you may not know that it is supernatural, you kind of just, you don't think of it that way until somebody points it out. Yeah, and then it takes on a whole new meaning. Yeah.

Well, okay, so we're diving a little deeper into your podcast. I don't want to give away too much. I highly suggest people go listen. We're just teasing some of my favorite stories I came across. But we're going to get a little dark sapphire in the later episodes of the show. episode four you cover possession something that a lot of people are not willing to face talk about I know so many people who have never watched The Exorcist for this very reason it's like my mom exactly so for anyone listening go listen to that episode hearing you argue with your mother

about her having seen the movie or not she's seen it amazing totally seen it I'm so bad I like I remember her in the room I think she just blocked it out of her memory. I don't blame her. I try to block it out of my memory, too. Well, there was another story in this one, too, with a girl named Gurley. And I found it really interesting. Is this a story you might be willing to share with us here? Sure.

I can give just like the basic premise of it. So Gurley was visiting her family in the Philippines. I believe that her grandfather had just passed away. So they were at like the party before the funeral, basically, at her dad's house. And all of a sudden, her aunt falls over in the kitchen and they carry her into the living room and they put this black cloth on her face. And people start speaking to her as if she is the spirit of her grandfather. She becomes a spirit channel. That is another thing that I've shied away from in my own life just because I was raised Catholic.

And these things, you know, you're told not to talk about it and don't invite it into your life. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that one freaked me out a little bit. I'm not going to lie. Well, that's the thing. Like, in this story, Gurley runs away because she's so terrified because it is kind of a scary thought. But it is just her grandfather.

Oh, wait. It may not have been grandfather. It might have been grandma. Sorry, I forget. But she's not possessed by something evil. It's a family member. And that's an interesting side because you don't hear about positive possession often. So, I mean, when you have stories like this come around, it's like, oh, okay, this could literally be a channeling of a family member or someone you care deeply about.

It doesn't have to be a demon in every sense of the word, I guess. And it's also, this is really common in Filipino family. There's a lot of people who have this ability to become a spirit channel. And indigenous Filipinos, they believe that you have these like two souls. Like there's the soul in your head and then the soul in your body and they can separate from yourself. And like a shaman is the only one who's able to kind of control that. And so like what can happen is like they basically remove.

one of their souls and then they like inhabit the the soul of um a deceased family member i don't know if i explained that well at all no the the the just the imagery of that alone is like blowing my mind i've met with maybe one shaman in my life and uh heard him say similar things like that so yeah it's cool it's almost like dueling souls at one point yeah yeah and it doesn't always have to be scary yeah yeah i think that's what i'm learning as i'm listening to your show It's almost evolving in terms of this doesn't all have to be dark and evil. Yeah, actually, that, no, yeah, that's, that was definitely intentional. I think with my old show something scary, I was definitely just trying to play up the spookiness and, you know, like, ooh, gore and like killing off kids and like just being really extra.

And, you know, I'm like, whatever the kids are going to be entertained by. And then I think by the end of that show, I felt kind of like, oh, this feels a little empty for me. And now I'm sort of switching it where I'm like, I'm not going to just go for like what I think is the scariest shit. With this show, I kind of want to show the other side that paranormal phenomena isn't always scary. Sometimes it's really meaningful and heartwarming. It's an evolution, I think, in our thinking and compassion for those having these experiences. I feel the same way when it comes to alien abduction stories. Everyone's searching for that, you know, really dark and intrusive and sensational story.

Sensational. That's the word. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good word in both of our fields, for sure. There's a lot of it. But when it comes down to it, these are people and it can traumatize them, no matter what happened to them. And no matter what they believe happened to them. So I try to keep that in mind in terms of my own research of don't, Don't go for the sensational or the most, you know, exhilarating or exciting or scary story. Like, just tell the human story of these things. That's much more compelling. We're going to go extra for a minute here, Sapphire.

So in episode five, God, the man whose features were crawling on his face. I mean, I'm just going to leave the audience with that and let you take it from here. This is one of your favorite ghost stories you said in the episode. So can you maybe run us a little through this with Mark Allen Miller? Actually, he tells the story so well that I can't do it justice. So if you want to hear it, go listen to the episode. That is a pitch right there. Spoken like a true podcaster.

That's awesome. Well, and you also had the image posted on your website. So I definitely suggest people listen to it episode five of Stories with Sapphire and then look at the photo. Otherwise, it's going to haunt you for the whole episode. I legit screamed when you showed me that photo. Your reaction, your immediate reaction is exactly how I felt when the photo popped up. Well, okay, so episode seven, you cover curses. This is something I have never really thought about or looked at.

And it was interesting. You told this story through the form of a story told you by Michelle Davis. So would you mind telling our audience about the hat man? This is a phenomenon that I'm not too familiar with, but a lot of people told me to look into it. So, yeah, what do you got in terms of this? Yeah, so the Hatman is basically a type of shadow person. Are you familiar with Shadow people? Oh, absolutely, yeah.

Yeah, so the Hatman is sort of like a specific version of that. For whatever reason, people sometimes see a figure, it is all black. It's essentially a shadow. but the silhouette, you can kind of tell that it's wearing some sort of like a fedora and it's wearing a trench coat and boots. And that is an image that has been seen all over the world by so many different people. For whatever reason, this image of the hatman is everywhere. So Michelle, she's actually an old high school friend, which is kind of, that's another reason why I love doing the show because I get to reconnect with people. I haven't spoken to it so long.

Yeah. Yeah. And I actually, I remember that she talked about this when we were in high school. And so I, it was really interesting to get the full story now that she's an adult looking back on it because I remember she was really terrified of it in the moment. So basically her, her dad and her sister had been seeing the hat man all over their house and the backyard that they lived in. And it just like followed them for years. And every time she saw it, it would get closer. and it would be more, what do you call it? It would be more visible to her. Like, the sightings of this hat man kept progressing. So I believe the last time that Michelle saw it, it just fully apparated in front of her while she was trying to cook food.

And she got so scared that she just ran out of the house with the kitchen stove on and locked herself out. So she was just like shivering outside. And she couldn't get back in because she was locked out and way too terrified. That phenomenon alone, like the fact that we have no true, I guess you could say, folklore behind it or, you know, where have these stories come from? What type of phenomenon is it? We don't know. It's just there. And that almost makes it scarier. You know, we can't really

peg it to the supernatural or aliens or, you know, interdimensional beings or just a figment or manifestation of our own what psyche fears i don't know well there is a theory about uh why we see shadow people um i forget the name of the body of the part the part of the brain i think it's like t m not tmj that's your jaw um it's like t pj or something like that where if you stimulate it you get this feeling that something sinister is watching you or something is in the room with you And so a lot of scientists attribute that to why certain people feel ghosts. So that I agree, like, yes, that is the case a lot of the time probably, why people feel shadow people or why people see these things. However, that specific thing that they're talking about is when you get that feeling that something is there.

It doesn't answer why we see a silhouetted hat man. Yeah, I'll leave it at that, yeah. I know it's too terrifying. It's a little terrifying. Hey, Legends, what's happening? This is Dan from the True Crime Grapple podcast, putting out a call to you to come over and give us a goal. We're approaching our second year of doing this. We love what we do, and you'll find a pretty solid product in a storytelling format, well-researched and written, with some cool music thrown in.

We've got a webpage over at www.w.combe-grapol.comptivate. where you can have access to all of our archives and all of our social media links are on there as well. We're also available to subscribe to on just about everywhere you listen to pods on. So check us out. That's the True Crime Grapple podcast. And let us feed your mobby curiosity. In episode eight of your show, we moved to a much better place, very beautiful, how the supernatural sort of formed around loved ones and friends.

And you touched on this earlier. So I definitely suggest that is your most recent episode. People listen to that one if you want a good palate cleanser for, I guess, your heart and your mind. And I kind of want to move on past the show to some more, I guess some more headier questions in terms of the paranormal. And, you know, I'm steeped in UFO culture and research every day in my life. So I don't know much about supernatural clearly. But one thing I found really interesting is that. This observation on what spirits or entities might prey on, I guess, would be a good way to put it.

You know, certain people or reasons why they attach to certain people. So I was wondering, could you maybe tell us a little about this concept and why you believe it might be true or not? I believe that to some degree, everybody has an ability to communicate with whatever you want to call it. Spirits, ghosts. We all have that ability. There are some people that are just much more sensitive than others to spirits and ghosts and stuff like that. Basically, any sort of paranormal phenomena. And what that means is that usually they're operating on a different vibrational energy than the rest of us.

Like everybody has a vibration. That's what an aura is. And oras are very real. Everybody has an aura, you know, like you've, if you've been around people who are super negative and toxic, that's an aura. And then there's so people who are really sensitive to spirits, they have, they're vibrating in a certain way. And usually spirits can detect when people are this sensitive. And so I actually, this terrifies me. This was something my friend told me a long time ago. He said that he had a friend who, would never make eye contact with everyone, would always like dart around looking in the room, never staring too long in one place because if she made eye contact with the spirit and it knew that she was looking at it, it would come right over to her. And so I got chills when he told me that. I was like, what a terrifying exist? That's so sad, you know, because she didn't want to talk to them,

but they would always want to talk to her. And so ever since I heard that, that's sort of what framed my idea of, because I'm not a sensitive person. I don't see spirits in the ways that a lot of people do. I've spoken with a lot of different people who are, and they all experienced it in a very different way. Like, I remember one girl explained it to me that she would look at people and she could see if something was attached to them. Like there was one person, someone in her school, I think she was in high school. There was a girl in her school that she never talked to, but she saw this black shape just sort of hovering around her all the time. And she never knew if she should tell her about it because she didn't really know her.

And then I think it was like weeks later that girl ended up committing suicide. So that's one way that people are able to see these things. And then other people see an actual person standing next to somebody. So these spirits appear in many different ways. So, okay, I'll use the example of shadow people. So the theory goes that if that a shadow person can be manifested from a living human being. And the way that that happens is if you are emitting so much negative energy, it will attract these shadow people to you. So that's why a lot of mediums and healers do a lot of protective rituals because they, you know, they're vibrating at such a high vibration.

that they're attracting not only good stuff, but also bad stuff. And so they sort of have to put these protective layers. And there's these types of meditations. Like one really common one is like the white light meditation, which you've probably heard of where you, it's a meditation, but you're picturing that you are emitting white light from your body. Like that's one of the ways that you can protect yourself from negative and evil spirits and stuff with a poltergeist too.

So a poltergeist is also thought to manifest from somebody. And most commonly they manifest from teenagers. And the reason why is because teenagers are going through puberty, hormonal changes. You know, they're in a very, a very unstable part of their life. And so it's causing a lot of this really chaotic energy. And that's where a poltergeist will manifest. And so it's sort of like, like there's this relationship, right? So it's like if it's like you.

You draw them in if you are in a dark place. But it sort of is like a chicken or the egg situation because spirits can drain you. If you are living in a haunted home, you may become depressed and anxious and just physically and mentally drained. But then on the other hand, if you are already in a dark place for whatever reason, that can also draw the spirits in. So it goes both ways. Right. It's kind of like a dance. It's like this co-creation sort of hypothesis that like we both bring a little something to the table. I've always wondered that like if you are in a haunted house or you do experience a apparition or a spirit of some sort. Like are they just as surprised as you are that they've made contact? I've always wondered that. Is it always them initiating the contact or how much do we with our perception or our our conversation? consciousness, whatever you might call it, how much do we bring to the table? And we deal with that in the

world of UFOs and aliens as well. Like, you know, people always ask me, how do I see a UFO? I'm like, you see a UFO. Like, that's the best answer I can tell you. I can't tell you that some certain thing is going to draw it in or, or if you spend 10 hours outside, you're going to see a UFO. You probably will of some sort. But at the end of the day, like, it just kind of happens. Yeah. But I, I think where in this, with the case of spirits and stuff, there is a way to open yourself up to these things. Like I said earlier with the dream, when I went to bed and I consciously thought I want to receive messages and then I believe I receive something. You know, there is a way to seek it out. There is a way to see these things.

That's really interesting. There's this big movement now in the UFO world where it's called Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind. That's where we're at now in the. the contact scale, I guess, the classification system, where people believe that they can be so intuned and can initiate contact with an otherworldly being, whether that means alien specifically or spiritually. It's fascinating to see these connections you can make between the supernatural world and UFOs. And we're going to touch on that in a little bit. But there is another project that you work on, Sapphire, that I have to bring up, Elephant in the Room. You're on television.

We both share this experience of working with our fields in the world of entertainment. And it is not easy. So, yeah, if you wouldn't mind just mentioning what show it is. But more than knowing what it is, I just want to know your thoughts on what is it like working in the entertainment field when it comes to these topics. Do you think these shows help or hinder research or the perception of it? I have my own thoughts and opinions in terms of what I do in that world as well. So I'd love to hear from you what you think. Sure. So I'm on a show on the travel channel called Paranormal Con on Camera. It's a clip show. So viewers will send in a video that they captured

of supposedly paranormal phenomena. And so they have a bunch of panelists who look at the videos and then they analyze them and talk about what it could possibly be that we see. We don't debunk them. We just talk about what it could possibly be. So right now, I believe we're in the third season. And at the beginning, when I first was on the show, you know, this is the first TV show I was ever on. So I didn't know what to expect. I just thought it was really cool that they wanted to pay me to talk about ghosts. But yeah. And And, you know, I actually over, oh, God, I think it's been two years since I've been on this show, I feel like I have this new responsibility to give answers that I think will be more helpful than harmful in the world of paranormal entertainment. Obviously, I don't have a say in what gets cut and what actually makes it into the show.

But I do have control over what I say. and if I can call out, you know, people running around in a house, disrespecting all of these spirits, then yeah, I'm going to say that. So it's funny. I just like I feel like I've become very much like the ghost sympathizer. Because with all, like, any time we have to react to a clip where people are doing an investigation and then they're so scared and shocked that they actually like had contact. and they're like yelling and screaming. And I'm like, dude, what did, like, what did you expect? Like,

and also you're being really disrespectful. Like, if you're trying to communicate with a spirit who killed herself, what makes you think that you're creating a safe space for her to communicate with you? You know, like, stuff like that. So I, I try to bring a little bit more empathy to the show instead of trying to just, like, what's the word? Not escalate, but just, you know, trying to make it more dramatic than it is because I, you know, we see so much of that already. That's a good point. I mean, there are a lot of television shows out there that go that route and really want to like amp it up. And at the end of the day, I tell people, look, these things that people are experiencing and the fact that there might be a tiny fraction of evidence that it's real, that's exciting enough, in my opinion. But yeah, at the end of the day, I tell people it's entertainment, it's television. This reaches a huge audience. one that I think a lot of researchers in their respective fields wouldn't be able to reach without these opportunities. So yeah, yeah, it's tough. It's always a fine line when it comes to entertainment and infotainment, I guess we could call it, trying to educate the audience, but also entertain them. So I definitely understand that challenge myself. And it's not easy. So kudos to you for even attempting to do that on television. Well, the next question I have for you, Sapphire, is

a topic I've I know a little about only because I've I've used this thing before and I don't I don't have much experience with it but that's the Ouija board and there are a lot of misperceptions about the Ouija board how it came to be we really don't know the I guess the 100% true origin of it but yeah what are your thoughts on on this and yeah is this? a way to communicate with the dead? So I've got a lot of thoughts on this. I definitely used to be terrified of Ouija boards.

I was raised to believe that they were evil and that if you touch one, you will become possessed by the double because that's what happens in the exorcist. And so for a good portion of my life, I always was super terrified of them. It actually wasn't really

until I did an episode of my old show where I dove into the history of the Ouija board to see if it actually was evil, if there was a reason for me to be afraid of this thing. Because I had never used it until then. Like I, there was a couple times with friends where we'd like fuck around, but like we weren't seriously doing it. But then other people are, it's so strange because I remember like I posted a photo of my friend's little bootleg Ouija board that spelled W. E.J.I. And I was like, like, ooh, we're doing something tonight. And then this girl that I used to live with, she messaged me. It was like, hey, I don't, I don't want to tell you what to do. But me and my family had this

really traumatic experience with one. And I just highly recommend you don't use it. And I was like, I'm very sorry about that, but do you mind telling me what happened? Like, what was so terrifying? She's like, no, it's too personal. And to me, I'm like, if you're trying to convince somebody to not use a thing, I don't know. I feel like you could give me a little taste because I'm like, like, oh, we all floated in the air. I'm like, oh, that's cool. You know, like, is it, is it something I'm willing to be susceptible to? But yeah, we ended up messing with it. It was fine. Anyways, so the thing about Ouija boards is that a lot of people seem to think they're this very ancient invention that's been around for centuries. It was invented in the late

1800s by this like camp of spiritualists who lived in Ohio. And, and, And there was this man, I forget, forget his name. I believe his last name was Bond. It was like Elijah Bond. And he was, I forget like why he went. I don't know, but he went to the spiritualist camp and he saw these people using talking boards. That's what they were called back then. It was just essentially a board with the letters and the numbers. And then people had a little planchette thing and they were sliding it over. So that invention came about because there was this other method of speaking with the spirits that was called table turning. Before Ouija boards, the way that people communicated with spirits is that they would literally

go through the alphabet and then if they heard a knock on the table, that meant that that was the letter. So they would literally be like, is anybody or like, what is your name? And they'd be like, A, B. Oh my God. That must have taken forever. Yeah. And because of that, that is why.

We still don't know who exactly invented the Ouichie board, but that is what. why it came about because now it's like, oh, we can just point to the letters. So spiritualism, which is the belief that you can communicate with the dead, was really popular around that time, the late 1800s because that was when the American Revolutionary War was. And people were dying constantly, you know, from the war or children from diseases. And because there was so much death, spiritualism provided this way for grieving people to have some sort of closure. It didn't matter if it was real or not. It, you know, their closure was real. So that's why it was as popular as it was at the time.

And so it became a Ouija board when that man, Elijah Bond. If I'm getting his name wrong, I'm going to be so mad. But I'm pretty sure it's Elijah Bond. He saw an opportunity for selling this board. He was like, oh, my God, people would love this. So he took it to the patent office and applied for a patent. And the story goes that the patent officer asked him, okay, so like what does this board do? And then they said that it can communicate with spirits or I forget exactly what they said. But the patent officer was like, well, can you know, you have to like, I'm not going to give this to you until you can prove that it does what it says. So he was like, all right, if you can. use the Ouija board and guess my name, because he hadn't told it to them yet, then I'll give you the patent. And so Elijah and his sister and then some other guy, I forget, maybe that guy was Kenner.

They used the Ouija board. And then as the legend goes, it successfully spelled out his name. And so he was awarded the patent for that. Wow. I wish you was that easy to get a patent for everything like that. I know, right? But I just, I love the idea that, like, they had to prove that it worked. Right. I had to prove that the supernatural existed.

Yeah. So that's when the Ouija board became a Ouija board. And that name, there's a lot of different legends of how the Ouija board got its name. But one, the one that I subscribe to is that they asked the board itself. And it spelled out O-U-I-G-A. And that's why it's so nonsensical. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Because when you hear it, you're like thinking ancient, mystical, blah, blah, blah. And it, yeah, totally by chance. Wow. Yeah. So Ouija boards blew up. They were super popular. There's like a Norman Rockwell painting. It was like in an I Love Lucy episode. And all of these depictions, it was very, it was very harmless. It's just like a fun little game that you can play. And also like a part of why it was so popular with people during that time, like teenagers is that like, ooh, it was a reason. to like put your hands near this person that you liked or, you know, stuff like that. Yeah, it was like an excuse to like get close.

Yeah, it's like a supernatural game of spin the bottle or something. Yes, exactly. Spin the planchette. There we go. I like that. But yeah, so for a very long time, it was just this fun little thing. And then it really wasn't until the exorcist came out that really sparked this like, oh my God, this fear of the Ouija board. And I'm sure, you know, like.

People have been scared of it before for whatever reason, but like the when the exorcist came out is when it really, really, really became pervasive in our culture. Because, you know, like after that movie came out, the number of supposed possessions had gone up, right? Like, people just thought they were more possessed. Like, you put an idea in people and then they, it creates mass hysteria. Chicken and egg again. Yeah. Yeah. Like what came first.

Right. Right. And so, like, once I did more research on it and I have also seen. a lot of videos where they debunk it. Like one of the most common things, one of the most common ways to debunk the Ouija board is you like blindfold the people and then you use the thing and then obviously you're not spelling out anything. But there is, there was this experiment that happened. I forget when. I probably should know it's like the 70s or 80s. They did this experiment where they had a subject in one room and then they had the researchers on the other side of

this wall. And so they would ask them a bunch of random trivia questions. And then for the second round, they placed a Ouija board in front of the subject, and they told the subject that there was somebody on the other side of the wall who was also using a Ouija board, and they would be spelling out the answers. And so if you use the Ouija board, you should be able to tap into what they're spelling. And what happened was, in the first round that they did this, without the Ouija board. In the first round, the average amount of questions that they got right was 50% on average. When they had the Ouija board in front of them, the averages shot up, not that much, but the averages went up to 65% in all of the subjects. So something was happening where having this Ouija board in front of the people and thinking that they were connected with somebody somehow made them. no answers that they may not have known. And so the thinking behind that, oh, by the, there was nobody on the other side. They just wanted to see what the effect of the Ouija board was.

And so the way that they think that was working was that when you have this external device, so the Ouija board, and you're thinking that you're connecting with something outside of yourself, it's helping you tap into a part of your consciousness that you may not even know that you had. So for example, you know, if you, you know, if you, you're, you know, if you had asked me some random capital of some random country, maybe I don't actively think I know that, but if I use a Ouija board, I might start getting like words in my head. Like maybe at one point I did know the answer and it was just buried deep in my brain. And then using the Ouija board sort of untaught like sort of accesses that information,

if that makes any sense. That's interesting. It's almost like, you know, you're using this concept of there could be a supernatural or, paranormal slant to this and it almost boosts your confidence in knowing the answer to something. Yeah. So if you are using a Ouija board to communicate with someone, so the thing is it's not the board itself, it's the people. So if you have a couple people who are all very open and very intent on being open to communicating with whoever it is that you're communicating with, you know, that effect is going to happen to all of them where you're going to be more likely to all, you know, spell out something that makes sense because you're all tapping into your each other.

I don't know that makes any sense. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can see the same thing happening at like a ghost hunt or investigation. If everyone in that room is like ready and open and willing to communicate with a spirit. You know, that will ultimately influence your perception of everything going on around you, I would assume. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you did mention the idea of consciousness. And this kind of dovetails into another interest that you have in terms of reality.

There seems to be a lot of studies going on right now in terms of what is reality? Is it actually a thing? Are each of our realities different, separate? it. And this brings us to the simulation theory. Yes. This is, this goes way over my head, Zephyler. So like, I don't even know where to begin with this, as I'm sure it does a lot of people. But what drew you to this, these sort of bigger questions in the world other than is there in afterlife? Are there spirits?

Does the paranormal exist? What are we? Where are we? When? How? Why? Where do you stand in terms of this idea of the simulation theory. So I would like to make a disclaimer. I am not an expert, so I am probably going to say something very incorrect, so please don't come after me. But I, I mean, I am obsessed with learning about different ways of thinking about the world. I mean, that's why I love the paranormal, because it sort of goes against everything that we're taught in school, you know. So essentially, the idea is that our world is merely a simulation. So, you know, this laptop in front of me is not actually in front of me. It is just a simulation of a laptop. Essentially, like, it's literally the matrix, right? Where, like, you, you don't realize

you're in the matrix until you leave the matrix. So that's like one type of simulation theory. And there's actually some cultures that believe that the world we're in right now is our dream state. And then when we die, that's when we awaken. So this is not. not that I think it's like the aborigines in Australia that believe that. I forget the name of them. But yeah, so like that idea has been around for a very long time. The idea that what we are right now is not is not the end is not real. Yeah. I mean, it's, I don't know. It's just to me, I'm like, how can you not think about this shit? How can you like just be like, yeah, cool. I'm on board with everything that I, uh, I don't know. I just, I'm like, I'm on board with everything that, uh, I don't know. I just, I'm just, I'm like, I'm on board with. learned in school and I'm done trying to learn more about the universe. Like I, you know, like even if these theories are proven wrong, they're just fun to think about.

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It's scary in one way. I think a part of me wants to take that blue pill and never think about it again. But then that red pill always is very enticing as well if we're talking like Matrix style. So yeah, yeah, it's a fascinating topic. Oh, for sure. And there's this one theory that my friend sort of made up when he went to the void. Do you know what the void is? It's sort of like a VR experience.

I've heard of it. Yeah, that's not in Los Angeles. list, right? Yeah. So he has this theory and he came up with it because he went to the void. So if you don't know what the void is, it's this experience where you wear a VR headset and the technology is advanced enough that you don't also need to wear gloves. It can tell like where your body is and where your hands are. So there is a physical space that you walk into, but it's just walls. It's sort of like a maze where there's like a physical, like just like flat surfaces all around, but in the in the goggles, you see, you know, projected images of like, let's

say one of the themes is Star Wars. So, you know, when you look at yourself, you are in a Star Trooper outfit. And when you reach out and touch that wall that you see in your VR goggles, you actually feel a wall. You feel something. So it's, it's VR, but like to the extreme. And it's really fun. It's really cool. So when he went to this, he was having a lot of fun. And then like In the middle of it, he had this thought of, I just wonder what, I wonder what it looks like without the goggles. So he pulls up his goggles. And then he sees these two security guys in the corner and they look at him. And then they just shake their head slowly. And then he slowly puts his goggles back. But so after that happened, he has this theory. He calls it the void theory that that is symbolic of what our reality is. So. our VR goggles are our eyes you know what we like our body determines what our reality is because that determines how we interpret the world right like when you have um if you have neurological disorders or any sort of like wiring that are crossed you know you're going to experience the world a little bit

differently right so your VR goggles is how you see the world right and then everything feels real because you reach out and there's an actual wall there but if you figure out a way to remove your goggles, you see what everything really is. And it's just a room with two men shaking their head at you. If that's all it is, then that's a little depressing. But that's a really good point. I mean, is there some architect at work doing all this? I've never thought of that. Like, is our perception or our consciousness, I guess, in a way, are VR goggles? And if there were so much. way to separate from the goggles and look even for a moment at the men shaking their heads or whatever is really out there. Is it possible? That's really interesting. Kudos to your friend on that thing. I know. I think there's something to do it. I love it so much. I use it all the time. And also, like, it could explain, you know, like, if you use the void theory, like what

ghosts are feeling things, right? So if you're first thinking about the void, like, let's say somebody else is in that room with you, you don't see them through the V-Ey or our goggles, but if they reached out and touch you, you would feel that. Yeah. Kind of like that. Right. Right. It's so fascinating.

Oh, man. I know we only scratched the surface of that, but there's something, I guess, sort of related to this, Sapphire, and that's the idea of string theory. You know, everything's somehow connected. And I don't know if it's the same in the sort of paranormal world, but here in UFO land, we're starting to ask these bigger questions of, could this all be connected, you know? Is Bigfoot, you know, coming in on a UFO and he's interdimensional or he's in apparition? Like, what's going on?

Why have we never found a Bigfoot body or this or that? Or why do UFOs blink in and out of existence? So I want to ask you your personal thoughts as a person who is steeped in the paranormal and everything. Do you think there's a connection that can be made between all these different weird things we all seem to have in common or not in common? You know, I don't know a whole lot about cryptids and UFOs and aliens. Like most of what I know is like ghosts and spirits and stuff. I always I always categorized them as separate things. But it was until recently that I started talking to people who are, you know, making connections with all that stuff.

So I honestly don't really, I don't really know. I don't think I've thought about it enough. I think the answer I don't know is honestly the best answer. anyone could give because I tell people, if somebody tells you they know exactly what's going on with all these things, that's when I run for the hills, because I don't think any of us

truly know what's going on in any of these weird things. And yeah, yeah, I'm happy to hear you say that. Sapphire, this has been a fascinating conversation for me and a world I know little about. So,

I mean, before we go, I would love to hear where can we find everything you're up to, Stories for Sapphire. I know you do a lot of artwork and animation and illustration as well. So yeah, give us what you got in terms of where we can find everything you're up to. You are a busy person. Sure. So Stories with Sapphire is available wherever you listen to podcasts. So Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, whatever you use. It's also on my YouTube channel. It's YouTube.com slash Sapphire Sandals. And I also draw unique thumbnails for all of my episodes. And so I stream on Twitch while I draw. So if you want to join me on Wednesdays, my Twitch is twitch.tv.tv slash Sapphire Sandalo. And yeah, you can find all the other info for my podcast on Stories with Sapphire.com. You can see all the places you can listen. You can see my merch shop. You could see my Patreon. And oh, and you can also.

submit a story on there. Oh, that's cool. I bet a lot of my listeners will be taking an advantage of that. Yes, please. Awesome. Well, Sapphire, this has been a fascinating conversation. It's opened my mind in so many ways. And it's just so good to like stretch out, not talk about UFOs for once, and get to bridge these gaps between these communities. So once again, thank you so much for coming on Somewhere in the Skies. Yeah, thanks for having me. That's it for this week's episode. Again, can find everything Sapphire is up to at sapphirecendalo.com. And be sure to catch her on the current season of paranormal caught on tape on the travel channel. If you have a UFO story you'd like to share or to contact me personally, use the contact tab on the website, somewhere in the skies.com.

Please take a few moments to subscribe, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get the show, it helps us grow and find new listeners. Thank you in advance. If you'd like to receive bonus episodes and a bunch of other perks, head on over to patreon.com slash somewhere skies to become a patron today. The merch store is open at tpublic.com. And be sure to subscribe to case files, our new web series on the Ryan Sprague YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. And remember, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the Entertainment One Network. To learn more, visit Entertainment One Podcast.com.