Somewhere in the Skies - The Chase for UFOs

Episode Date: September 24, 2018

On episode 75 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Chase Kloetzke finally joins Ryan for an in-depth conversation about the UFO field and her extensive military, forensics, and field investigation work that have made her one of the most sought-out UFO researchers in the world. We hear about all of her latest work and we get the exclusive story on a MUFON case she took part in where she went from an objective investigator to a primary witness of one of the most dramatic UFO encounters Ryan has ever come across. This and so much more in this week's episode with Chase Kloetzke. Guest Bio: Chase Kloetzke earned her Master Trainer and Instructor title while employed with the Department of Defense. This includes assignments with Homeland Security and Private Sector Security Forces. She is a certified Private Investigator and is an International Forensic and Evidence Collector. She joined the Mutual UFO Network in 1996 and was selected as The Star Team Manager and Deputy Director of Investigations through 2011. As of today, Chase holds the position of Director of Investigations. As an International CAG investigator, Chase focuses her attention on National UFO cases reported in Mexico, Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Central America. As of 2016, Chase became a registered and official Lobbyist for the UFO Field. To learn more, visit: www.chasekloetzke.com Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening and Closing Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with eOne Entertainment SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is sponsored by HelloFresh. To receive 50% off your first order, use promo code: SOMEWHERE50 at checkout by visiting www.HelloFresh.ca Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. Today, we talk to UFO investigator, researcher, and lobbyist, Chase Kletzky. What are we not doing as uphologists in this field? Well, we're really not including the scientists and the lawmakers who have been brutal to us in the past. And, you know, not being afraid to have a door shut in my face, I've really elicid both. And I use a lot of scientists to test a lot of labs because I won't use UFO labs because it's like the prosecution trying to prove case with only their witnesses. So, you know, I use very independent labs as scientists and I've learned as long as I'm not saying, hey, I think this medal's from a mothership. Yeah, it's like,

hey, I got some metal. You test metal. Can I send you this metal? How much is that going to cost? And we're good to go. And I'm getting really noted labs. And some of the guys that I've even had examine our stuff are up for Nobel Peace Prize. So yeah, and knowing that, okay, well, we walk through that door, what's the next one? So I kind of thought we have to get our lawmakers because we're never going to get anything declassified. We're never going to change anything with the secret keepers or to have any transparency if we don't start including the very people that can do it. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprague. Today, we're going to be talking to one of my favorite UFO researchers and

investigators, Chase Kletzky. But before that, I just wanted to let you know that I'll be attending AlienCon on November 9th, 10th, and 11th in Baltimore, Maryland, with my very good friend and rogue planet colleague, Jason McClellan. Jason and I will be signing and selling books and merch, and will also be taking part as moderators and participants in panel discussions throughout the weekend, and I'll personally be giving a solo presentation of my own. It's going to be a super fun and informative weekend, and we want you to be a part of that. Look for an exclusive Somewhere in the Skies contest in the very near future, where you'll be my special guest at AlienCon, Baltimore, for the entire weekend.

Stay tuned for more information by following the show on Twitter at Somewhere Skies, or join our very active Facebook page. Just search Facebook groups for Somewhere in the Skies podcast. I'll be posting about that contest very soon. In the meantime, if you haven't given it a read yet, I'd love to also share my exclusive interview with Ryan Eslinger, writer and director of the new film, UFO, starring Gillian Anderson and Alex Sharp.

Eslinger shares some of his experiences on set, his thoughts on UFOs, and we dive into his extensive research into the UFO topic that helped inspire many aspects of the film. That interview can be found, at our sister site, Rogueplanet.tv. While you're there, check out all of the other amazing content we have to offer at Rogue Planet. Again, that's rogueplanet.tv.

And now, a little about today's guest. Chase Kletzky earned her master trainer and instructor title while employed with the Department of Defense. This includes assignments with Homeland Security and private sector security forces. She's also a certified private investigator and certified, certified, international forensic and evidence collector. Chase joined the mutual UFO network in 1996 and was selected as the star team manager

and deputy director of investigations through 2011. As of today, she holds the position of director of investigations. As an international CAG investigator, Chase focuses her attention on national UFO cases reported in Mexico, Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Central America. In November of 2016, Chase became a registered and official lobbyist for the UFO field. Today, we talk all about her extensive list of accomplishments in and out of the UFO field, and we hear about her most dramatic UFO case she's investigated,

when she, her investigative partner and the primary witness experienced something so strange that it changed her entire outlook on the UFO phenomenon, and her investigations moving forward. So, without further ado, here's my conversation with Chase Kletzky. Chase, thank you so much for finally joining me today on Somewhere in the Skies. Oh my gosh, Ryan, you're one of my favorite euthologists out here, one of the best voices, and it really is my honor. I have adored you from the first time we even work together,

and we've had a couple little projects. Yeah, we have. That's kind of how we got connected. I remember I was a fan of yours back in the day, when you were doing a bunch of radio work, and I listened every week to your show because you were bringing forward information that no one else was. So, of course, you know, I immediately reached out to you. I was like, how can I work with you? What can I do? What can I do? And we made it happen. Yes, and you were excellent. So it's so great to see you get into radio after, you know,

kind of dabbling as, you know, a correspondent at Congress. And you're just killing it. I'm very proud of you, Ryan, very proud. Oh, well, you know, I could obviously say the same. And that's sort of what we're going to run through today. I mean, for any of my listeners who don't know who you are, which I find impossible at this point, but for those new listeners out there who might just be hopping on with this episode, I couldn't think of a better guest to have on. So before we get to your track record here, Chase, of just some amazing stuff, I want to start with the origin story. I am a comic book nerd. I love my Peter Parkers, my Wonder Woman's, and how they became who they were. So if you wouldn't mind, would you maybe give us a little overview of how you first

got interested in the topic of UFOs? Oh, absolutely. I wish it was as cool as Wonder Woman, but it started with, you know, just being homesick from school and my stepmother handed me a book titled Chariots of the Gods. And I'm thinking, I'm not reading church stuff. That's crazy. But I'm 16 years old after a while of counting ceiling tiles, you know, I picked the book up and was blown away. And it wasn't just the content. It was the questions. Who does that? The way I was raised and, you know, in this little town and, you know, just in the time of day it was, you didn't do that. You didn't rock the boat. You didn't ask those tough questions. And for the first time, I kind of felt like there was permission. And I could be that person in a Bible study that heard about everyone following Moses for 40 years

and knowing that there was someone in that crowd just like me, then after about four years would have tapped Moses and said, Hey, Mo, can I see that map for a minute? So it really, you know, changed everything to where, you know, I just felt like I could ask the things that go through my mind. That's so funny. I mean, I had very similar experiences growing up in a very sort of traditional. Roman Catholic household, where I did. I questioned a lot of what I was conditioned to

sort of believe. And I even challenged my priests at one point during confession and asked him about what about UFOs? What about aliens? What does God think about this? Or what does the church think about this? So I love to hear that, you know, people even at that young age are willing to challenge what they're sort of been forced or taught to believe. I really feel like I've had that rebel spirit. So it's, it's for people like us that, you know, have that. I think putting it in into uphology and being investigators and researchers, it's a good channel for that rebel spirit. You know, the alternative could be jail, right? Exactly.

Okay. So that is, that's really cool. Chariates of the Gods. That was one of the first books I came across, too, at my barber shop, of all things, when I used to get my haircut with my dad, You know, every Saturday, every other Saturday would go get our haircut. I'd sneak a cup of coffee at the age of 12, you know, thinking I was some bad rebel. And I'd read chariots of the gods, excuse me. And I'd read a chapter every time I went to get my haircut. And after a few months, I was hooked. That's so awesome.

So, okay, so that's how you sort of got involved, you know, years go on. you've had extensive work doing all types of stuff for intelligence agencies and, uh, and whatnot. And then you, you became an investigator for Mufon. So where did this all style? How did you eventually connect with Mufon and work with them the first time? I think, you know, it's, I first got my computer. I'm a data refugee unlike probably you. Um, like I got my first computer. I was in my 30s and, you know, you get it all hooked up. and the first thing I googled, or AOL, searched was UFOs. And I found all these little groups already on there.

And I just thought that was amazing. And so I think that's more where I found Mouffeon. Everyone was talking about this group. And so I looked them up and found out that you could be an investigator. And they had a training manual and a test. And I thought, oh, my gosh, I have no idea how to investigate a UFO report. because we really don't investigate UFOs. So, you know, like, how do you do that?

And they had instruction. And I really love the system. I love the way Mufons decentralized and, you know, versus other groups. And, you know, it was pretty good. I had some states better than others. You know, my husband's military, so we would move around a lot. And there were some states I'd never hear from the state director or, you know, so, you know, every once a while I have to shake it up.

It was more just, it was just so convenient and such a good idea and a good program. And, you know, as a non-member, I often would find myself critiquing move on in how they investigated, but I always had to rein myself in and remember, like, I don't know what goes on. I don't know how exactly the communication is between state to state and, you know, exactly how a report is filed or investigated. So again, I would find myself being like, okay, Ryan, slow down, know your role. these people are doing their work. There's, there's, you know, there's protocol set for this type of stuff.

So I completely understand that. And I think what a lot of people forget, too, is that it is state to state, you know. So how do you, how do you get 50 states to sort of come together as one cohesive unit? And I feel with any organization, that's probably close to impossible. So I'm sure each state has sort of its own approach when investigating and whatnot. Am I sort of on the right track here? I don't know. You are.

You are absolutely. And, you know, it's why we continue to look for the best of the best. You know, who are the leaders? Who are the people that understand these are volunteers, but at the same time can motivate, you know, what they volunteer to do. And that is to be there for the witnesses. And, you know, I've been really pushing this agenda of own it. If you want to be an investigator and you're holding that ID, own it. get some equipment, hone in your skills, be good at what you do because the public doesn't have

anywhere else to go. Bufon's the only organization that investigate. So, you know, not only are we the archivist and the historians of witness reports, you know, much like Peter Davenport and, you know, National UFO Reporting Center, which we adore and have a big alliance with right now. I'd like to talk about that in a minute. But, you know, it's just, you know, we're also investigating. We're the only organization.

And it's not just the 50 states. You have to remember, we're international. Every country, we're even in Russia. I think the only one we're not investigating at this point is China. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, right. Unfortunately, but yeah, I could see that. Yeah, we have to own it.

And we have to, you know, be that solid, knowledgeable person out here because we tell people we are. So, I mean, okay, so you did mention it. So we might as well cover this here. I've spoken to Peter on several occasions to get some reports from him. Just an undeniable treasure trove of reports about UFOs with this guy. And for those who don't know, this dude, he's a one-man shop. And he works out of, what is it, a decommissioned missile silo? I know. He's so cute.

It's like, yes, that's awesome. Yes, he works in a missile silo. He lives in a missile silo. Right. So this is Peter Davenport. he is the head of Newfork, right? Yes. Okay.

So what is the connection now that you have with Mufon and Newfork? What do you guys brewing up over there? Well, actually Mufon reached out. And one of the things that we understood, and I say we as in, you know, kind of senior staff, you know, Jan and I were really putting our heads together. It's like, when did we all become such individuals? Because we all kind of partner each other and assess. I mean, we work with Peter Davenport.

Fon and his database. We're always comparing. He's calling Jan. We're calling him. But what about William Puckett? And what about Nightcap, which is still in force with Fran Ridge? And sure enough, we forged a big alliance with Madar and working a huge case, all of us together, putting our heads, putting our best people and best minds on it. And, you know, that's really where uphology started. And I really think we need to get back to our roots and cooperate with one another, reestablish strong ties of not only partnership, but cooperation and sharing information. I love the comment from one of the people looking, you know, helping us peer review something. And he says, Mufon gave us everything. What is it?

And I'm laughing thinking, of course we are. So, you know, I thought that it's just a really good move. And so we do. We have a huge alliance. It's called Project Match. and, you know, we're going after the big stuff. And you recently became the new director of investigation, am I correct? Yes.

That's awesome. Yeah, I couldn't think of a better person to have in charge of that for sure. So this is kind of the overarching story that I wanted to cover here because if anyone hasn't read my book or seen one of my presentations or one of yours, you were part of an investigation that trumps pretty much any other that I could possibly think of in the UFO field. Again, I covered it in in my book under the title, Encounter in a Cornfield. So, Jason, if you're comfortable, I know this is, you know, this is a bumpy one for sure, but you were on an investigation with Mufon and you had possibly the most dramatic encounter

I've ever heard with other witnesses, which is very important. And when I tell this story at my presentations, there are audible gasps in the audience every time. So would you mind telling us about what happened on this investigation? Sure. But I'd like to probably just tell the audience first that, you know, this investigation went on for weeks and months. Mostly, you know, because of the time constraints, we just kind of tell the good stuff, you know. But there were so many details in this. So before they make a judgment on whether they believe it or not,

I asked them to read your book and look at the full report. And I have left that story up to you to tell. And you were the first one to print it too in a book. And I was more than happy to let you have it because I trusted you with it. Absolutely trust you. I really appreciate that. Yeah. But I have been asked to tell this at a conference.

And it's kind of a smaller conference. So I thought, yeah, okay, I've never done that before. So let me do it. So I'm going through the slides. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I forgot. all the detail and it's crazy. But basically, you know, I had a witness that called and, you know, he was seeing like these orange lights. He didn't call them really orbs at first, but these round balls of light and several other things were going on on the property. And he kind of let me know right

away that these are going on every night. And, you know, he and his cousins were out there chasing them down the road. And, you know, as an investigator, you know, you hone in on every word they say. And I'm thinking chasing them down the road. Does that mean, what do you mean chasing them down the road? And he would say that, you know, these lights would be in front of his car and they would just follow and race down the road with them. They weren't up in the sky and they were trying to get under them. So, you know, just really bizarre, incredible sightings that he was having.

And I just wanted to go out there. And we were stalled for a couple of weeks because of a big flood in Tennessee that really put the middle of Tennessee right under like six to eight feet of water from Memphis to Nashville. So the roads were closed and, you know, we had to wait for water to recede to even get to his property because this was out in the boonies. So we pull up. Finally, we get to go and I picked up another star team investigator. We pull up in his driveway. She's freaking out. I mean, she's just like, oh my God, oh my God. You didn't tell me this is who it was. And I'm like, who is it? Because I don't follow the sport, but he's a very prominent sports figure. And yeah, I,

I was thrilled. I got to work with him and meet him, but I had no idea who he was. Very nice, man. We get out of the car and immediately he takes us kind of to the edge of his driveway overlooking kind of like this big hill and the property went down and it was a lot of grass. But then you could see a tree line way down further in the yard. And he says, look, it's already happening and he points up. And he says, this is how it starts every time.

And sure enough, you see this. these little clusters of light pop in. And they weren't way far away like stars. They were kind of halfway between us. So they were shockingly different. And they would all come together and make a formation and then kind of move in a singular pattern. And then they'd all burst away. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, because that's hitting our criteria of, you know, right angles and stopping quick maneuvers, you know, speedways.

all these things that rule out satellites, drones, plane. So, you know, and finally he just said, look, if you guys don't mind, let's go. I have a cornfield out here, and it's, you know, over 100 acres. So we have a panoramic view, and that's where we're going to get our best look. So we're like, okay, we get in this truck, we go down to this cornfield. Sure enough, you know, it's huge. I can't, I kind of looked at him. I said, this is all your corn?

Like, what do you do with all this cord? It was, you know, really a little girl from Rhode Island, right? So we got out and set up like a little table and then we pulled the back end of this truck down. And I had, you know, some things back there. And I like to tell this part. The witness came out and he had this big old shotgun. And I just kind of stopped and looked at him. And he said, no, no, no, no, chase.

You know, no worries. It's like we have problem with coyotes. So in case we have a problem, I've got it covered. So we kind of set up the table. We're in the middle of the field. And he starts getting excited. And, you know, he says, here it is, Chase, here it is. It's coming.

Here it's coming. There it is. And he points off into the distance way above a tree line. And sure enough, I see a light, but at first I'm not sure if it's moving. And then it's definitely moving. And then I see two more pop in. And just like, what, like, what is? I thought they were just three unidentified objects at first.

So I've got, I'm getting my camera trying to take pictures of it. During this time, my camera's not working. I'm very frustrated. I pick up another camera. I had four different ones with different makes and models. And then I noticed they're all moving in a way that, oh my gosh, I'm starting to see the outline where they're kind of blocking out the stars. And sure enough, they're all attached.

This is a triangle. And it's coming right over our head. and I'm picking up everything I possibly can. Probably broke one of my rules as an investigator, but probably dropped an F-bomb. Like, you know, it's right F in there. My epic camera's not doing anything. And it's just so frustrating as an investigator. And I got a couple shots off as it was leaving.

So the further away it got, you know, I managed to get a few shots. I ended up getting over 600 photos, but, you know, how many of those are good? we're still trying to find out. But I was thrilled at this point. You know, we just saw clusters, you know, multiple clusters of these lights, these round light maneuvering. And now this triangle that moved like nothing I'd ever seen before. It's really hard to describe.

It wasn't gliding, flying, sliding. It just, it's hard to find the word of how it moved through the atmosphere. And I'm excited. I turned around the investigator that was with me. We're looking at each other and just like, oh, my gosh, like we're happy dancing. It was insane. And so I kind of turned around because I was worried, you know, that all of a sudden all my equipment wasn't working. So sure enough, I checked everything.

Everything's back online, showing full batteries. Because I first thought it was a battery drain, which is very common in UFO and paranormal. So I just who I am, I'm better safe than safe. sorry, I wanted to change the batteries out of a couple of my most used pieces of equipment, and one was a tri-fiel meter. So I turn it around, I'm unscrew in the back, and just the weirdest thing. I mean, you know, we're still on adrenaline, like this excitement. This is the coolest thing ever to happen to you. This is what every investigator dreams of when they go out on site. I just saw this with my own two eyes. And then all of a sudden, I just, I remember saying, and I'm,

I'm pretty sure the exact words were, hey guys, anyone else feel like you're being watched? And I said, I don't mean from down here. And about that time, Ryan, this like fear, it was physical, but it punched right into my body. And I swear, every cell in my body knew terror, not fight a flight, terror. And I just remember turning and running. And when I turned, I saw the witness who was behind me a little bit. and the other investigator was further way up, but I could see us all turning and running at the exact same time.

And as we're running, I do remember being fixated on this light, and this light is going, you know, big swooping motions, right, left, right, left, and it's really close to the ground. And then all of a sudden I hit this brick wall, and that's what it felt like. And it turned out to be the witness, and I ran into him because he stopped.

and the light that had kind of grasped my attention, the fact I was also running faster than I thought I could, was the flashlight he had in his hand. And as he's running, you know, that light is just because it's real dark. But he just said, what the F was at? And I just followed my eyes when he put his left hand out and swung that light around. And about six feet from us was this little being just standing there,

just standing there. And oh, my got knots in my stomach talking about it. it. But, you know, it was just like it was one, one thousand two. And the next thing I know we're running. I'm like, it was crazy. We jump in this truck. The witness takes off. We leave that cornfield so fast. We caught air. He had the big old truck that was really raised up. In fact, he kind of had to hoist the other investigator up, you know, kind of threw her in. You know what I mean? Yeah, just to get her in there, yeah. Yeah. And then he ran around. got in the driver's seat and, you know, we get into the driveway and we're all like stepping out.

And I remember thinking, what the, what the heck? What is going on? Like, why did we run? Like, what was that? And I'm just kind of scratching my head because at this point, Ryan, so many things are going through your head. I know what I saw. Wait a minute.

Why were we running? Where did that fear go? You know, I remember that fear. When did it leave? I don't remember. Just all sorts of. of things. And at this point, the other investigator, we kind of looked at each other and we knew, I'm like, we have to call the state director. We've now become witnesses. And we can't talk about

this and we can't investigate our own sighting. So she kind of walks down the driveway a little bit. And she's on the phone with Eddie Middleton and, you know, telling him what's going on. I can hear him going, oh my God. Like, I'm on my way. You know, and the witness came up. And he's visibly grateful and Relieved is the best way to put this because he dropped down on a knee. And he says, Chase, thank you so much. Oh, my God. Like, you saw that, right? You saw that.

What was it? And at this point, I've got some senses back. And I just said, I, you know, I can't tell you. He goes, he goes, Chase, what was it? And I said, it was real. And then he said, what do they want? And when he said they, I kind of thought, what do you mean they? I didn't see a they.

I saw an it. What, like, wait, what? And at that point, the, other investigator kind of broke up that moment and we started talking, but we were right back in that cornfield 30 minutes later. And, you know, to this day, it's hard to tell people that we were controlled out of that cornfield. Nobody was a runner. The other investigator wasn't, and neither was a witness. Remember, this is the guy who brought a shotgun that said, hey, we have a problem with coyotes. He didn't say run and get in the truck. He brought a shotgun because, Ryan, this place is so far out in

the boonies. I mean, it's way, way out there. And it's kind of the, what they call that rich and famous part of Tennessee, where they have these big, beautiful, you know, mile long ranches, you know? And yeah, it was just, it was just crazy. But they're so out there, they don't dial 911. They call the cops to come and, you know, clean up a mess or tell them what happened. But, you know, these aren't people that run. These are people that know, know, they have to handle whatever comes their way. And so after a while, you know, it's a terrible position also to be in as an investigator because Scott Law tells us that no one person's testimony validates an event.

And that's all I have. The witness does not want to come out. He didn't want to be the crazy guy that saw UFOs. The other investigator, literally within two weeks of this sighting, got in a car, drove away from her family or husband. and, you know, she was missing for a while. I did hear a rumor that they found her, which was good, but, you know, she left. She's not on the record. It's really hard.

And we went back out there. I couldn't find any physical evidence. I couldn't find trace evidence. And, you know, the photos are, you know, it's a light in the sky. Who cares? Nobody cares. I don't. And so I'm like, ugh.

So I'm really hoping one day the witness will come forward. But instead of trying to figure out what was going. on and oh my gosh Ryan trust me I've tried I've listened to the most crazy conspiracy type theories but I'll listen to anything anything that might put the pieces together of what happened but there's a couple of things I do know I do know that whatever was going on out there we weren't supposed to be there we were controlled to run and that fear I would not wish on my worst enemy and I want nothing to do with it anymore the good things that came out of that was That's when I owned my title.

That's when I decided we've got to get better. We have to be better than just, you know, standing around in a cornfield. How do we do this? Better with witnesses. It was just, it was nutty. It was crazy. And this story should be absolutely ridiculous, except I saw it. And every detail I tell you is true.

And the thing, the thing that bothers me the most is if I could make up a story, it be so much better than this because I'm a uphologist. I know, you know, what makes a credible story. You don't put together all this craziness. But unfortunately, that's what I got handed and telling the truth. There's so many aspects to this, you know, like you said, the really, you know, messy details that no one would feel or experience unless they were there. And I think that's important.

When I tell, you know, when I sort of recall this story in my talks, people come up and they ask me, you know, oh, why didn't they stay and try to like communicate with this being or this or that? But like you said, we weren't there. And that's kind of me, as a researcher, that's kind of the biggest thing I've learned is not to judge witnesses, not to assume what happened because I was not there in that moment when it happened. Right. Well, I wish we had the option. You know, the key point here is we didn't know what we didn't turn around and run. We all of a sudden, I felt that. We were controlled. Whatever was going on. We all did it at the exact same time, ran the same direction. Nobody said anything like, what was that? Or Ron, or everybody just did it. And everybody was shocked at the end that we did it. So it was definitely something we had no control over. And, you know, and those are the things that people get confused with. Would I love a chance again to, you know, stop dead and have a being six feet for me? Heck yeah. And it even goes further than that. because as I did a recording for you because you wanted to follow up on people who had, you know,

really good sightings, like, you know, real, real extraterrestrial type events. And how do they feel now? Like, where are they now on that topic? And it's deeper. So this has really turned into not about me as much as trying to understand why that being was in a field, you know. And even then it's, I can't go there. You know, whatever happened that night is just, it's too much. It's too much. I completely understand. And I mean, I can only imagine how that's impacted your investigations

moving forward, now becoming a witness, having that empathy for those who've experienced it, being in their shoes. How has that impacted your investigations moving forward? I think I just wanted to be better. There came a time when we're going through the field and I'm thinking, I'm missing something. You know, and to this day, to this day, Ryan, I'm the first one to admit something was wrong that night. I know something was wrong. I'm still trying to find it.

Something was off. Whatever that means, I can't tell you. I could just tell you the best way to describe my gut is something was off. And if I couldn't find it or if I couldn't find footprints, well, maybe it wasn't that they weren't there. Maybe it's because I've never done that before. So how do we find them? And now, of course, I'd bring lights out and, you know, not just UV lights.

We know that different color lenses on glasses, on those safety glasses, you put orange and then put a green light out there, you're going to find a different trace evidence than you would under a UV light. So this is what I wanted to know is how do I actually find evidence of these events? And, you know, what's available to us? So I did. I went and ended up being certified. I am now an expert forensic collector and evidence collection and custodian property manager. And, you know, and I did it through not just a UFOs field.

I did this through law enforcement. So, you know, I'm certified through the National Institute of Justice. And I just wanted to really be good because I'll tell you, Ryan, I'm after that event. I don't know how many more stories the field can handle of my grandfather knew somebody that worked for Area 51. or, you know, this light in the sky, you know, it was star size and it moved to the right and it was going east. We've got tens of thousands of these. I really just want to focus on the evidence. You know, what we need to do to crack this open is to get that evidence, period.

Period. And we're going to get to that evidence in a little bit. I want to talk to you about some other people who are working on some stuff right now with UFOs. But we'll get to that. But that event chase, I mean, it just, again, there is something off about it. It almost seemed planned in some sort of weird way. But again, like you said, still, we may never know what actually happened out there in that field. And you were there ground zero as it happened.

And you still don't know. So again, I wish you all the best with trying to find answers to that. But also not. You know, maybe we'll never know what truly happened out there. That's kind of what this phenomenon. always does to us. It's as frustrating as that is. It's also... Exactly. It's cool, too, you know. They're always a step ahead and we keep trying and we keep trying. And like you said, that evidence is very important and we will get to that shortly. But the next thing

I wanted to touch on with you is sort of an offset of what you do in the field and beyond, something that blew my mind and that I've never put a lot of my own personal time into looking into. And that's investigating, you know, new and alternate history. And you've, you've been working for a while now with an expedition team in Peru of all places. Yeah. We know Peru well now in the UFO field for many different reasons. But yeah, I would love to hear more about what you're doing with this team and what your sort of focuses with doing that. I mean, this is amazing. We feel as though we've been visited not just centuries, but,

basically from the beginning of our history as homo sapiens sapiens and even further back in the past. So there's got to be evidence somewhere. And again, that's what we're looking for is the evidence of, you know, the past contact that we believe, whether this is a biblical narrative of angels and gods, or if this is, you know, extra intelligent beings and these entities from different planets. At this point, we're really trying to figure out, is it one or the other? Can we determine this? Can we find the differences between, you know, human effort and that of maybe giants or hybrid race or even through some of the architecture? And, of course, the cyclopean, you know, megalithic structures are, you know, one of the first things we're looking for because these are, you know, huge, huge, many, many tons of rock.

that form perfectly next to each other with no martyr. So that's an engineering feat that we cannot copy today. And very intrigued with some of this stuff. So it's really just looking for things that haven't been found before. And we're putting boots in areas that have never seen human feet. It's dangerous. The last trip we made down there was the most dangerous thing I've ever done. And I honestly can't wait to do it again.

This is amazing. But I will tell you the scariest thing ever. in an Amazon in the Amazon jungle are these frigging little things called bullet ants. Oh my gosh. They scared the crap out of me because it's the most painful bite. And yeah, so the tarantulas, you know, they get a little ooh. But those bullet ants then be running, screaming like the biggest girl ever. Oh, you know, it's so funny.

You know, we never think of those things when we see these expedition shows or these, you know, pseudo-archologists going out there and looking for stuff. You forget that there are things out there that do not want you there. Absolutely, because where we were, everything wanted to eat us. Everything. Plants, animals, you know, you name it. But it's amazing, Chase, because I'm seeing images of you, like, actually analyzing these things, you know, from a scientific method point of view. And what is this team called, by the way? I don't think I mentioned that. It's called Inca Quest enterprises and it's led by Timothy Albarino, which is best known probably for Gen 6 and Anson. Anson runs Bo Hick Ruse.

And he's an explorer and a very successful archaeologist. He's got many big, big expeditions and discovery already under his belt. And I really, really encourage people to go look him up. You can find him on the internet under Bo Hic Ruse, which is B.O. H-I-C-R-U-Z. And, you know, between Timothy and Anson, it is just amazing. And we are. We're going places where we've never been before. Nobody has been before. And picking up some evidence. I work out there. And it is very science. I have my field kits and, you know, trying to set up a clean room or a clean space in the Amazon, you know, to take forensics and, you know, film every step to show

that we had prudence. Yeah, it's amazing. I love it. I love it out there. And, you know, living with a tribe for five days of head shrinkers was interesting. Yeah, I can only imagine. So, you know, it's just, it's just fun to be in that arena because, you know, I live in D.C. And that's enough of a jungle. So, you know, to get out there in the Amazon with that air and, oh, my gosh, I can't wait to go back, Morayin. One jungle to another for sure. Yeah. Okay, so you mentioned D.C.

This is what I wanted to cover with you next. Besides working for Mufon, you know, going to Peru and doing all these amazing expeditions. In 2016, you became a lobbyist for the UFO field. You are fighting the fight for us down in D.C., Chase. So what made you want to do this? What did you hope to achieve in becoming a UFO lobbyist? This is awesome. Yeah, it was really Steve Bass.

it. And, you know, being a witness to an extraordinary event that produced a lot of forward movement for us as euthologists. And that was the Citizens Hearing for Disclosure. And, you know, I know they were former Congress and Senators. And if anybody knows how D.C. works. They probably have more political clout to call the president than the seated ones right now. But, right? But, you know, I watched them come in on a Monday and they were being polite and they were listening. By Wednesday, we had half of them standing up saying, we need those files open. So what I realized is when you approach these people who have no idea, no idea what's going on, they're not being read in. The secret keepers are not these guys sitting in the House or the Senate.

With the right language, we can educate them and they get it. I saw it at the Citizens' Hearing. So when we kind of thought, what are we not doing as euphologists in this field? well, we're really not including the scientists and the lawmakers who have been brutal to us in the past. And, you know, not being afraid to have a door shut in my face, I've really elicit both. And I use science, a lot of scientists to test a lot of labs because I won't use UFO labs because, you know, it's like the prosecution trying to prove the case with only their witnesses. Right, right. So, you know, I use very independent labs as scientists. and I've learned as long as I'm not saying, hey, I think this medal's from a mothership.

Yeah, it's like, hey, I got some metal. You test metal. Can I send you this medal? How much is that going to cost? And we're good to go. And I'm getting really noted labs. And some of the guys that I've even had examine our stuff are up for Nobel Peace Prize. So yeah, and knowing that, okay, well, we walk through that door.

What's the next one? So I kind of thought we have to get our lawmakers because we're never going to. to get anything declassified. We're never going to change anything with the secret keepers or to have any transparency if we don't start including the very people that can do it. You know, so now, I mean, I'm working on this case and this alliance that we have. You know, Mufon thought it was really important to include NICAP and Newforce and, you know, all the people that have been working very hard on a case that also offers a lot of evidence and evidence that they would understand, meaning,

the House and Senate. So we are. We're getting ready as soon as this report's finalized. And, you know, I've got a senior staffer that's willing to give me 10 minutes in a subcommittee. And I'm going to take it. And that 10 minutes hopefully leads into 30 for the next thing. I've got 10 minutes to convince them that we have something they need to pay attention to. And I think for the most part, honestly, for the most part, these guys have no idea, no idea what's going. on here. And I also know they don't give two craps about Roswell. They don't want to hear about Rendlesham. They don't want to hear any of that because what they're concerned with every single day is national security, threat assessment, and basically how they look. So I swear. But, you know,

they look at something like Rendlesham and, you know, back in the 80s and they're like, well, how does that affect us today? Right. I don't see the connection. Why am I wasting my time on this? So it took us a little bit to actually get a case that does absolutely demonstrate civilian and military concern and with enough evidence that, you know, it be provable in a court of law. And getting our talking points together and presenting this very scientifically and with a national security interest, no UFOs, no aliens. I'm praying we get that 30 minutes. But this is how we do it, Ryan.

and I'm convinced that we have to talk. And we know that to the Stars Academy, they're doing the same thing, doing a lot of work with Congress. And the one thing I want people to know, I've never had to show my lobby ID, not one time. I have walked in and I made my phone calls and I picked up that phone and I worked it until I found the right place. I'm not special and neither are they. Everybody that is a citizen and pays taxes has a right to talk to the people in those seats. And, you know, my lobbyist did not get, my lobbyist ID didn't get me any further. Being sensible did.

I can tell you that Lou Elizondo has got a big uphill battle right now because, you know, once you're out, you're out. He's not going to get any more information from ATIP. Absolutely not. My husband's retired. He's out. They're not calling him, giving him, you know, movement of submarines and, you know, hey, what do you think of it? You're out. You're out.

So, you know, I just really want to encourage. people to join me. Let's do this. You know, there's no stars out here as far as, you know, people being special. Every one of us can talk to the CIA. We can knock on the doors and of the DIA and ask questions. And it's really, you know, for the people that are kind of rowdy and rebel-spirited like we are, we'd love to, you know, start this discussion, especially if you live near D.C. and can show up here and walk in with me. I would love that. That's awesome. Well, I'm going to be in Baltimore in November. So you've got a guest with you coming pretty soon, Chase.

I can tell you that much. I love it. I love it. And that's probably not the worst timing. And I'm pretty sure I think I saw you as a guest on AlienCon, which is awesome. Yep. Yeah, they invited me back for some reason. No, that's awesome, Ryan.

And to tell you the truth, we were talking about maybe be running panels or, you know, some people, I just can't. I have, I'm going to be in Arizona. See, this is what happened. to us, Ryan, I'm going to be in Arizona at boot camp. I'm going to be teaching Advanced Evidence Collection. What? I know. I know. It's so crazy.

Oh, God. See, I mean, this is what I love. Like, you're not a one-trick pony chase. You never have been. You're not just a UFO person. You're out there, like, serving your country, doing what you love to do and helping people. So I think that's awesome. I really did.

Oh, thanks. I just really, you know, people were good to me coming in. It's awesome. And I just remember it was really a struggle in a big picture. It was a struggle. It's a good old boys network. We're throwing those walls down and, you know, things are getting much better now. And I think it's because, you know, we're working hard and things are changing. Our conversations are changing. And, you know, we're stepping up to a more modern method and real science. And that's really available to us now. mean, you know, 10 years ago, we couldn't buy forensic equipment, only, you know, law enforcement.

So, but now it is available. So, you know, some of it's, you know, just availability of what we can use now, but we're on it. You're on it. Yeah. And I think another big thing, a concern that scientific community seems to have is this Adam Research Project, or to the stars, or other organizations that are attempting to analyze, you know, materials. Again, we're not saying alien. We're saying materials that might be exotic somehow is that they're so damn stubborn and not willing to give these people the benefit of the doubt. And I think what's what really has bothered me lately are the scientific people who aren't willing to give these civilians a chance. You know, God forbid someone actually try to do something and move the field forward and try

to get some answers scientifically. I mean, God forbid. I have a big problem with that. When to the stars first came around, maybe I was a bit hesitant, but like I'm on board. I'm not a member. I don't contribute. I'm a journalist. I want to stay disconnected so that I can have that objective view of as this all plays out. But like you said, you know, you have to do the work.

If you're just sitting there, what are you contributing to any of this? That's kind of how I look at it. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we don't mind skeptics weighing in. Or, you know, people, but know what you're talking about. Like, back it up because, you know, I put out my reports. Show me yours. You can't just say on Facebook, yeah, I don't buy it because, oh, it's a drone.

Why is it a drone? Because these proclamations aren't good enough anymore. But, you know, I love to the Stars Academy. I almost think if I had to do it over, would I do it that way? Yep, I sure would. We have a lot of drama in uphology sometimes. and to sever myself from all of that has always been a challenge. And I try to continue to do that.

But to just kind of get your own group of scientists, you know, Bigelow did it with Nids. And, you know, they dismissed euthologists. And, you know, I'm not so sure that we didn't deserve a little bit of that. We've been working on this for 70 years. It's time to get busy, guys. We can't play around. Our time is running out. And, you know, these guys, I don't see them as a challenge.

I see them as, you know, almost a helpmate because, you know, to the stars, Tom and and Lou have a close relationship with Mufon. So, you know, they are kind of working, but they are. They're keeping their cards very close to their best and we don't. So, you know, there may be some concerns. I love that they're trying to investigate. I think they're finding that's not as easy as watching ghost hunters on TV and then, you know, getting a couple pieces of equipment. and going out there. Yeah, there's a lot of concerns. One thing I see is sterilized gloves. You know, a big mistake. You see people putting on, you know, these gloves and that looks great. No, not if you're

picking up evidence. Latex gloves protects you from contamination. Sterell gloves protects your evidence. So, yeah, and that cross-contamination, you know, from those gloves that you just pull out of that big box, they're not sterile. You know, so that cross-contamination. So if they were made in Mexico, those gloves, you know, and somehow had that dust from that, you know, something in there. Yeah, who knows. Yeah. So it's just, there's a lot, a lot more to it. There's a process for your evidence to be admissible.

You just can't pick up a piece of metal and run it through a lab and say, oh, here it is, guys. You know, you have to have it forensically photographed. You have to have it, you know, in a catalog, you know, so that we can always make sure that metal is exactly what was tested and where you got it. And, you know, we ran into this with Rendelsham medal. You know, some guys like, hey, I got this medal for Rendlesham. Well, first of all, whatever, right? Yeah. Second of all, how do we know you got it from, you know,

because I could show you exactly where I picked it up. Not good enough, buddy. We have to hit admissibility. We have to work these cases like it's a homicide. And it's the same rules of evidence. It's the same rules. And I think as euphologist, we've tried to push these cases forward as though they were admissible and we weren't following lawful process.

So without that, I think they're going to have some challenges with that. And the thing that would help them the most is to ask people or bring on that expert. There's plenty out here, you know, you know, so I worry about that because I actually saw a picture. And on To the Stars site, I think it was a tweet. And it shows Lou holding a camera, his cell phone, photographing evidence. Not bad at all. But he had his gloves on. So, of course, my comment was, I hope after he put the phone down, he didn't touch the evidence.

Right. Yeah. I'm seeing some of this stuff and it about rides, you know, throws me up in the air, but. Yeah. And, you know, I know your concerns are valid as many other scientists may be out there or investigators. And I think you're right. you know, since to the stars has put out some of their videos and whatnot, within days, the UFO community is like, oh, you shouldn't be doing that,

you should be doing this, or this or that. So I think, you know, I don't know about you, instead of just being extremely volatile to these people, trying, you know, trying, like you said, let's help them. And let's show them that, like, we're willing to work with them, instead of getting jealous and being like, oh, we're not the ones on TV or working with Tom DeLong. Well, we could be. And I know for a fact that many people within Mufon and outside of Mufon have been tapped to somewhat work with to the stars. So, you know, this is a time in Uphology when we should be embracing anyone who is willing to move it forward and find some answers.

So instead of, again, making them an enemy, let's just all try to work together. And that's exactly what you said earlier. Yeah. And I think that's part of the problem that, you know, we've been trying to. readjust what's wrong with us. And why are we fighting and why is this? And it's because too many people want to pee on their bushes. And it hasn't worked in the past.

And that's the first thing I wanted to see or evaluate. It didn't work. So why don't we put our heads together out here? You know, does Mufon have to be the only people to see this case? Why can't we bring in Peter Davenport and, you know, William Puckett and Fran Ridge and, you know, these other UFO groups. This is our history. Nightcap has been around as long as Mufon and they're still standing.

Cuffos. It's like, come on. Like, I thought it was nostalgic. I thought it was awesome to bring these groups back in the spotlight. Let's work with these guys. Some of these people have 70 years in the field. What? Yes.

And that is a rarity these days. So if we can get anything from, you know, 70 years of research and build upon that, I think that's the most important thing is you never forget where you come from or, you know, these people in the field who I've learned from and then build upon their work instead of saying it's no, it's not relevant anymore. It's always going to be relevant in some way. Exactly. Building it up. Yeah. You know, and I think some people, it might be a little offended or feel dismissed, but, you know, not everybody's owned it. Not everybody's worked for it, you know. So, you know, if you have a legacy out here, you probably, like I know you, Ryan, what if you can't do radio anymore?

You've got five hundred things you can do. And that's really the best way to maneuver your investigation or, you know, how you want to be in this field is, you know, you just don't put all your eggs in one basket, that's for sure. And be multi-talented and be interested and ask questions and not be afraid to call somebody and say, hey, you're working on. this, is there a place I can help in that? Or is there, you know, can I read your stuff? I mean, you know, even a simple like and to no longer begrudge somebody because they came out with an awesome article and you're just not, you're not going to give them the like for it because you didn't like them. You know, we're outgrowing this. And those people, you know, when their phone's not ringing, Ryan, it's us. Exactly. Exactly. Everyone always asks me,

even outside the UFO field, like, you're always doing something. You're, You're doing a play or a movie or, you know, the book or whatever, whatever it is I'm doing. And yeah, it's because I can't sit around and be idle. I have to be doing something. Like, how do you do that? Like, you want to know how? I called someone and I was completely shameless and said, how can I be involved? What can I do?

Because that's a very personal and maybe sometimes selfish approach to it. But that's how it happens. And that's how you get the ball rolling. Get involved. Stop sitting on your ass and complaining and do something. Absolutely. And it's even at conferences, how many times have we seen people like, afraid to approach you, Brian? And it's like, wait, wait, like, you know, they see you as a rock star.

You don't see you as a rock star. Please come talk to us, right? Yeah. If that person is out there, they have just as much right being up there speaking about this topic as I do because none of us are experts. We look into it on a day-to-day basis. We relay the information we've gotten. And that's about it. And that's what it is.

It's a discourse. You know, this isn't us preaching to people that are less informed than we are. It's us saying, hey, this is what we found. What do you think about it? Like, let's get that conversation going. I couldn't agree more. There are no rock stars. We're all rock stars, I guess.

We're all groupies. How's that? Heck, yeah. I'm still a big group. Roopie. I love my Richard Dolan. And we're good friends with him. Both of us are very, very close to Richard, but I'm still kind of a fan girl. I don't want to lose that. I don't want to lose that. It's fun. I love your work to death, Ryan. I'm a fan girl. I don't want to lose that. Like, you know, it's just way more fun to have those kind of feelings with each other than, you know, resentment and

jealousy. I'm not into that. I'm the same. And we have to also remember, like, we're not just throwing mud at euphology. This is like this in any type of field or organization, you know, but it does seem to be pretty prevalent in ours. And we, and the only way it can change is if we acknowledge it. So I think that's very important. I love you and move on. Yeah. I would love you to join Mufon. Become an FI. It's, you know, it's the people like you that we need. You're a truth'saker. You have integrity and you have the energy. Or, you know, it's that next generation that we need to build up. I've been doing it for over 20 years. And, you know, even though we kind of feel like we're ushering in behind some of those, we're looking for the people that are like with us, you know,

right behind. You know, we need the 20 and 30 somethings. And, you know, it's very important. But you didn't come in knowing everything, Ryan. You didn't come in like, you know, you were going to fix everything in uphology. You know, you came in and did your work. And like you said, had no shame to say, hey, hey, can I talk to you about that? I think that's cool. They love to do it. So, you know, I think your intentions really, everything we need. I'd love you to join Mufon. I keep you busy. It's never too late. I welcome that invitation and we'll definitely talk more about that for sure. Well, you did mention Chase, not having all your eggs in one basket. Now, you have been very busy in other facets of, I guess, the UFO field.

And that's with presenting it to the mainstream. So you mentioned a project that you're a associate producer on. I don't know how much you can actually talk about this. So forgive me if I'm putting you on the spot. This is a project that you're working with Netflix. Is there anything you can tell us about this? Yes. And I want to, I'm working with a team that was approached by Netflix on a,

on a topic. And I happen to have been involved with writing a book with one of the guys named Jack Roth. And they just, they love the idea. They completely funded it. And we have a full documentary film coming out on Netflix in, I believe it's scheduled for February. And it's in post-production right now. Netflix loved the editor's cut so, so, so, so much that they ordered another one. So I know, it's not even done yet. And, you know, it's so amazing. And to be an associate producer on, you know, a Netflix film has been an eye-opener. It's been amazing.

You know, I don't know if I can join the next one, but they kind of don't need me. The team is such a rock star. And when all the names come out, you'll be like, oh, yeah, they don't need Chase. They're on. They're good. But, yeah, I got to be part of this. This whole process, it's actually the film is going to be put into two film festivals. And I don't know, maybe.

Wouldn't it be cool if for the first time a UFO topic type film got an award? In an actual festival, yes. Yes. Legitimate, credible, you know, non-UFO festival. Yes. I think that's awesome. Well, I mean, sort of staying on that same vein. You have also been very busy on my television here at home.

You're popping up everywhere, Chase. I mean, within the last year or two, you've worked with Josh Gates, Rob Lo, and ancient aliens as well. So, I mean, I'd love if, you know, briefly, you could sort of run over what you did with these guys and how those experiences were. I can only imagine a whirlwind. I loved it. Working with Josh Gates is he's exactly who he is on TV. He's funny. He's very, very nice, very attentive.

They appreciate everything that, you know, you're doing with them because they know that you've kind of given up your life to something you're not doing on a daily basis. So it's foreign. He was amazing. And, you know, we joked around to the point where we're in that, like, little flashy Jeep. And he's like, we're like Molder and Scully Chase. And I'm like, yeah, trust no one, Josh.

And, you know, he's just funny. And he says, oh, let's put our glasses on like where M.I.B. It was just fun times like that. But then when it came time to investigate, Dead on. He is serious. So he's the real deal. I really like that. Roblo, that was amazing because I got to board a research vessel named the Bold Horizon and work with the eclipse group, which is the same group that's worked with Steven Spielberg and George Lucas and some of the big guys there on the Titanic and some of the other films that they made. And, you know, it was amazing. You know, we were going to investigate the Maloney's. Blue underwater base. And for the first time, we're actually going to put eyes on it. We had side scanning.

Yeah, we put that Mohawk 2. It's an ROV and put that in the water and got all this HD video and side scanning radar and landed on top of that structure and went down the front of it and back and forth on the seabed. And it was awesome. But Rob is Hollywood. And it felt Hollywood the whole time, like when I was around him. because I had all meals with Rob and the boys.

And we all got along really great and had fun at the meals, but it was kind of like after the meals, it was Hollywood. It was like Hollywood. And the best way to describe it was the boat captain and I were standing at the rails. There were 40 of us on the ship. No, there was 47 of us on the ship and 40 of us hanging over the rails the first 12 hours, by the way. I believe the show showed Rob throwing up. Oh, no.

I know. It's like, oh, we were all like, oh, it was bad. But, you know, we're standing at the rails and this big wave comes up and kind of knocks us a little and kind of soaks us down. And, you know, the guys all come running up and they're drying Rob's hair and they're fixing his makeup and fix his hair. And then they walk away and they're like, okay. And he starts talking to us. And I'm like, I'm sure I have mascara running down my cheeks. And, you know, it's like, and I kind of looked at the captain. And he looked at me and I'm like, okay. I guess, yeah. But he was very nice when it was time to be sociable, but when it wasn't, it was work.

And it was Hollywood. Yeah, and I guess that's to be expected. I mean, you can also see the dichotomy between Roblo and Josh Gates. You know, one is one grew up as an expeditioner and actually was passionate about putting the legwork in to do this. Now, I'm not saying anything against Rob Lo, but he is a Hollywood actor. Does he have an actual interest in this? Yes, of course. Or he wanted to do this, you know.

But he also had a silliness about it because this was an experience that he was sharing with his boys, which was something not quite anticipated or that didn't come out in the discussion clearly when they invited me to come out and do this with them because I promise you, there's very little of me saying anything because we were all down at the bottom by the charts and they're like, chase. So I need you to say, this is an underwater base that we've been looking at for a long time. We have a lot of, you know, cases with, you know, UFOs going in and out. I'm like, I'm not saying that. I would never say that. And then there was another time where they're all screaming, chase, chase, chase. So I go running up the ladder and production's like,

oh, up there. So I get to the top deck and Rob's like, oh, my God, what's that? I'm like, oh, Rob, I said, that's a drone. I said, it's a phantom. You can tell by the light changes. I said, I have the same drone. But they wanted me to go, oh, my God, that's a UFO. And then there was one time they said something about, can you just say that the aliens from the mothership and I said, you guys, that will never come out of my mouth. And Rob was mad.

I mean, Rob and the director said, Chatsin, why are you here? And I said, because you wanted a scientific investigator. I said, if you wanted somebody, there's 100 UFO Kardashians, you know, they want to be famous for nothing. I said, but Rob, what would it take for you to sell out your peers and professionalism? A show with Rob Lowe, $10,000? What would it cost? Wow. And he looked at me and he says, too-shay, chase, tushay.

And they did ask me to say anything more. But there was a silliness and I got it. You could see they scared in the show, they scared John Owen with an alien, a fake one. And then, you know, so there's a lot of silliness. But in the end, I didn't care. Ryan, I was on a research vessel, and we totally, scientifically, with the most advanced equipment available to us, completely solved the Malibu underwater base. So to me, I'm walking like, I don't care about Roblo. We got data.

We got data. It's like awesome. That's so funny, Chase. I was scheduled to go out to that site. I'm in Los Angeles now. I was scheduled to go out there with a couple friends to look into that case in a couple weeks, and now I don't have to waste my time going out there. Oh, I'll give you my final report because, you know, there's a lot of things to it.

You know, we didn't just do that. You know, I figured out everybody talks about Point Magoo, that base that's right there. Right. Wait a minute, guys, did you know that Port Rhinemi that's about 40 miles north of that has a direct line is the actual home of underwater Cbe's that build underwater? Hello? Like, you know, and it's just funny that we found things that people weren't even paying attention to, but I'll send you that report and, you know, still go out there. I mean, you know, it's fun.

You know, in the end, it really was about the data. And, you know, doing these shows, I'm very, very picky with. You know, we all know I've turned down many. I know you have because we were talked to. There's, you know, when people ask me, well, who would you recommend? I'm like Ryan Sprague. I've dropped your name. You know that.

They called you. But a lot of these, you know, when they get real, we don't want any part of. Yeah. I've been in the same situation. You know, I won't mention the show. It's the only show I've been on. So it's pretty obvious at this point. But I was doing a famous UFO case with them. And they got everything wrong. The director showed up. He hadn't researched it at all. He was getting the names, the dates wrong. And he's just telling me what to say. I'm like, dude, what? Like, you're not even saying the main primary witness's name right. What do you hate this? Like, oh, just say it. He was sick. He didn't want to be there. Just say the lines.

And that's the point where you have to be like, look, is this worth my reputation as a serious author and researcher to be on national television and say something I'm not comfortable with saying? And we'll add to the disinformation of this case. So, you know, it should have been an hour shoot. It ended up being eight hours long chase just because I argued. every last word that they wanted me to say, knowing full well that these people, they're professional editors. They can make you sound bad if they really want to or make you say something that you're not comfortable with saying or is going to add to the negative perception of this field. And that's kind of what it came down to. I would rather spend eight hours getting it right

and bringing credible information out than doing the Hollywood thing and saying, it was aliens that kidnapped, you know, this person from his plane. So, yeah. Oh, my gosh, exactly. And I was on a sizzle reel down in Texas. I even have like a shot of, you know, me kind of bent down getting evidence. But, and when I found out like about halfway through it, I just said, guys, I'm not doing this. I am not doing this.

I want no part of this project. And I walked away in the middle of it. Yeah. It was like not doing it, guys. And you're right. And I'm glad that, you know, we do that. Because we do represent what's out here. And if we look kooky, then how many people watching the show think UFO investigators are all kooky?

Exactly, exactly. And again, we strive for credibility. Why ruin that just for like five minutes of fame? Well, I mean, besides the TV projects and film projects, Chase, your extensive research and investigations, somehow you found time to write a couple books. So I kind of want to wrap things up with these two books. that you have. One is for more of the adults. The other is for children. So tell us about your two publications you've had. The first book was a children's book. It's the first of its kind. It's titled, Are Aliens Really Real? And it really tells a story of a grandmother and a little boy, which this is a

true story. This is exactly how it happened. The same questions were what my grandson asked me. He knows what I do. And, you know, they're fascinated. And I knew at that point, that whatever I was going to tell him, he believed. And I didn't want to do that. I wanted to answer the question so that he was curious enough to look up his own answers and to figure things out for himself. And so that's how the book kind of portrays. So this little boy's asking questions and his grandmother's answering in a way that promotes exploration. In the meantime, there's a little alien in every little picture. And the kids have fun kind of find a little alien, you know, where it is in the picture. And of course, the innuendo there is, just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean

he wasn't there. So, and then I wrote a book with Richard Dolan, all the contents mine, and I had no idea what to do with it. So he organized it and helped me with content and how to make it make sense. And it's called admissible. And it really is a manual on, you know, professional applications and strategies. It's not a manual in the sense of, you know, know, I take each chapter and say, this is how you do this and this and this. It's more, if you're new and you just need advice, let me tell you what we've learned. And, you know, like one thing, I tell them to, you know, be careful of the rabbit holes. You know, another thing is, hey, guys, I know it's fun to put UFO stuff all over your car,

but, you know, let's not do that. If that's the car, you're going to be driving to a witness location because they may not want their neighbors to know. You know, so to show up with a big Mufon sticker, not a good idea. So little things like that that we kind of learn that, you know, you don't always hear when you're new or I have a big section on ethics and why we need to be better and why ethics have to be our number one concern because these people are vulnerable a lot of times. And, you know, we have to be diligent and just give them something because there is no one else. And until people realize that, then it's just a game. When you realize that, then you start owning, you own it and you take it with a little more seriousness. So it's kind of the advice you don't get in like a field manual. Oh, well, I was going to add, Chase, I mean, I have like first editions of all these old like Donald Kehoe books, Friedman, Hynek, and they're all worn and they look old as all hell. But your book admissible is the most

worn book I have because it's, you know, pages I've got bookmarked, everything's highlighted. It looks like it's been through hell and back just because I use it so much. Oh, my gosh, you're so awesome. Out there investigating. So it is. It is for anyone just getting into the field or for the veterans out there. I mean, this is the kind of book you need to do a proper investigation. And again, you have the extensive knowledge outside of the UFO field as well to write a book like that.

So, you know, sort of wrapping that up. You are, for me, the prime example of what a euphologist, if we want to use that term, should be, a UFO investigator and researcher. So, I mean, it took a long time to finally get you on the show, but I'm so happy that we finally made this happen. And again, if anyone wants to find all of your work, where can they find that? You can find that on my website is chase klitsky.com. And I don't really put a lot of work up there. I guess it's, I don't know. When I close a case, I've always just handed it to the witness and let it be theirs.

But I guess I need to do that because people forget kind of what I do out here. But does that make sense? Like when I work on their stuff, I close their case and give it to them. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, it's for them. Yeah. So I don't have a lot of that. But, you know, you can definitely, I'm on Twitter, Facebook.

I don't do a lot of Facebook. I definitely, I don't even have Facebook Messenger. So don't message me there. Always e-mails the best way. And I just love hearing from people out here. And Ryan, you are one of my favorite guys out here. And we're very fond of each other. And that's very apparent when we toss each other's name up there.

And I want to thank you so much for the invitation. It's been such a pleasure. That's it for this week's episode. Again, all of Chase's work can be found at chase kletsky.com. That's C-H-A-S-E-K-L-E-T-Z-K-E.com. Please take a moment to help the show gain new listeners. The best way is to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple. podcasts and iTunes.

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Somewhere in the Skies. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network. To learn more, visit Entertainment Onepodcast.com.