Somewhere in the Skies - The First Witness

Episode Date: December 11, 2020

On episode 191 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan is joined by former CIA operative, Ben Smith, and the granddaughter of Jesse Marcel, Denice Marcel. They give us the inside story on their brand new History Channel television series, Roswell: The First Witness. The series follows the grandchildren of Major Jesse Marcel, the first person to investigate the Roswell UFO wreckage. The Marcel family recently discovered their grandfather's personal diary amongst a collection of his military belongings. This diary is believed to contain coded clues about the truth of what happened at Roswell. Along with the diary, Ben Smith will investigate the actual crash site with cutting-edge technology, and track down a possible lead on where the some of the wreckage may still be buried. Full video interview by CLICKING HERE To learn more about Roswell: The First Witness, CLICK HERE Audiobook of Somewhere in the Skies is now available by CLICKING HERE Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Episode edited by Jane Palomera Moore Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with Ryan Sprague. Welcome everybody to Somewhere in the Skies. I'm your host, Ryan Sprague. And today we're going to be talking to two very important people who are starring on a brand new television series that is premiering on the History Channel on December 12th, and that is History's Greatest Mysteries, narrated by Lawrence Fisher.

And within the context of this series, there's going to be a few mini-series, and one of those is about a case near and dear to my heart, as I know it is many of yours as well. and that is Roswell. And it is Roswell First Witness. And with me today is the lead investigator of the show, Ben Smith, who is a former CIA operative, which we will definitely touch on,

and also the granddaughter of the first military witness to step foot on the Roswell crash site. And that is Denise Marcell. So guys, welcome to somewhere in the skies. Thanks so much for being here. Hi, thank you for having us. Yeah, this is a trip. Brian, it's great. My pleasure.

I mean, like I mentioned, this case means so much to so many people out there. It's kind of their gateway drug into the UFO world. And I know it was for me as well. The first book I ever read on UFOs was by nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman, who wrote Crash at Corona. So, you know, not only were UFOs supposedly visiting our planet from somewhere else, but they were crashing. And that terrified me as a 12-year-old.

So it's been a tale. spin for me since there. But I'm sure this has been a crazy experience for the both of you as well. So I kind of just want to dive into the show and your investigation, Ben, what you guys uncovered. We won't give away too much, obviously. But Ben, for my audience, you know, I don't think they've really ever seen you before or heard from you unless you, you've been tapping their phones in your previous life and everything. But I'm just kidding, brother. I'm just kidding. But Yeah, could you tell us a little about yourself, you know, the work you did with the CIA? And, yeah, what led you to want to investigate the Roswell case of all things?

Yeah, it's a long story. I'll try to keep it short. But my name is Ben Smith from the Pacific Northwest. I joined the CIA out of graduate school to, you know, serve my country to learn about the intelligence process, do my best to prevent terrorist attacks, and, you know, For an espionage against our country, I was what's called a case officer for a number of years. Case officer in Hollywood Parliance is the undercover field operative. So I largely worked overseas, recruiting and handling sources. We call them agents or assets to collect intelligence that might

be useful to the U.S. government, you know, preventing terrorist attacks or affording espionage against our businesses and governments or weapons of mass destruction, right, a global danger. So I really cut my teeth in the field, dealing with a lot of individuals, claiming they had access to pretty fantastic information. It could be somebody approaching me and saying, hey, I know where some radioactive material is. Hey, I know there's a terrorist attack coming. You need to listen to me. And sifting through all of these kinds of people, right, who sometimes want to help and sometimes want to hurt me or others. And getting to the bone, you know, is this really true and is it useful and can't?

can we do something about it. So I really cut my teeth doing that kind of work for the CIA. I resigned from the CIA a couple of years ago to just pursue other interests. One, my wife, now wife, and two, to really explore really what else is out there. And to ponder those big questions. And one of the first things I turned my eye to was, okay, UFOs, what's this about? Why do people all around the world have these experiences? And is there really any there? I'd grown up in, this is our important. too long. Sorry. I've grown up in the 90s when awesome fiction like The X-Files and some of the programming on Unsolved Mysteries kind of captured my imagination and it took off from there and it's still a

passion of mine to figure out what is happening. Is this a real national security? Is this a real national security threat and global security threat that we need to be seriously? And we know, you know, recently within the past few years that the Pentagon has looked at that potential threat. of what UFOs or what they're now coining UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomena, what they might be, and could they pose a potential threat? And, I mean, talk about a threat when something crashed in the desert in 1947 that a lot of people, including your grandfather, Denise, couldn't figure out what it was. And this guy was a trained observer.

He knew what to look for in the skies. It was his job. So let's kind of get your background, Denise. I mean, I'm sure some people recognize you from the show that I was a part of in looking at Roswell. But yeah, could you tell us a little about your connection to all of this? Even though I kind of spoiled the big part, you are the granddaughter. Yeah, surprise everyone. But yeah, tell us a little about yourself.

Well, like you said, my grandfather was Jesse Marcel Sr. He was a lieutenant colonel when he retired. and he was the first military officer at a crash site in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. And he found that the material was just so intriguing and it just didn't make any sense to him that on his way back to the base, he decided to show the material to my grandfather and, or excuse me, to my father and to my grandmother. And he did say these words to them. He goes, I think what we have here are pieces of a.

flying saucer. And he believed that until the day he passed away that what they found out there in the desert was a flying saucer, just because the material just didn't make any sense to him. Right, right. And I mean, the story kind of just unraveled from there. We know about the famous headline that came out in the newspaper, you know. Our AAF finds flying disc in desert or something along those lines. I know I have it actually right here on my mug. I should probably show that to everyone here. That's wonderful. I'm no poser, I promise. This case needs a lot to me. But let's talk a little about the investigation, Ben, that you guys did. And it kind of starts with the first episode of the show, which I am very thankful to have been, to have screened recently. You talk about the journal.

And this is something some of us have speculated and maybe rumored throughout the years that there could be this written account or something to do with this in the journals of Jesse Marcel. And lo and behold, boom. We won't give away too much. But yeah, tell us a little about what this journal meant to both of you, Ben, as an investigator and Denise, as something tangible and first person from your grandfather. I guess, Ben, let's start with you if you don't mind. Yeah, I mean, in the intelligence business, the first thing you want is the best thing you can get is firsthand documentation, right? Whether that's, you know, the secret plans of the enemy or the terrorist group or what have you. And here I had a chance to give my hands on a firsthand document belonging to a military member or in the possession of a military member who was the key witness.

The first witness, government witness, on the scene in Roswell, in 1947. So there's a lot of importance there. You know, when I got a chance to open that book, it really fascinated me. I'm someone who has used, Sutterfuge and, you know, clever, who's used clever techniques to hide sensitive information to carry out my own operations. But here I have a book, and as soon as I crack it open,

I can see already that there's a lot of room, and it follows a lot of the procedures that I've been trained to use in terms of hiding information. potentially. So that immediately caught my eye and, you know, that became the foundation of my investigation. Can I authenticate the prominence of this document? Is it real, legitimate? And what does it tell us? So that kind of was the, yeah, it was the basis for the investigation and really expanded from there. And fortunately, I got to work with Denise all along the way. Right. And I mean, the examination and analysis done on the journal is something we won't get into. You have to see it. But it packed a punch. I mean, you guys went straight to the top with people to analyze the hand writing and to possibly decode some stuff that could be a little more mysterious side within the contents of the journal. But Denise, what was it like looking at this?

hearing about it as Ben was also investigating it. I mean, I mean, this came straight from your grandfather. Well, you know, the journalist, it's a very, it's very intriguing. I guess that's the best word to describe it because what's written in there sort of just doesn't make sense. So with having Ben look at it from a different perspective, you know, of a CIA background, it lends to, I think it makes it even a little bit more, mysterious because it just, some of it just doesn't make sense and maybe it was meant to be

cryptic and that we weren't supposed to understand what it was saying because it's, there's just some odd stuff in it. It's, yeah, I don't know how else to describe it. It's, I'm just really happy that we have somebody taking a different look at it, you know, other than our family and having somebody from the CIA actually who has a knowledgeable background about looking at analyzing something that's kind of cryptic. Right. You know, it looks like regular, like, little poems or something like that, but then it's like, why was he writing this?

It kind of doesn't make sense. Right. And this was from a standard, you know, provided journal that the military gave to him. So, I mean, that lends a lot of credence, too. And, yeah, we'll leave the audience to figure out and try to decode some of that stuff as Ben tried to do as well. But I want to move to kind of the core of this investigation, which I have done personally,

so many UFO researchers out there, like Stanton Friedman or Don Schmidt, who was featured in your show as well, have gone out to the debris site. Now, that's a whole story of its own. There's so many proposed crash sites that people have claimed to go to out there and whatnot. But, I mean, Ben, when you were out there, man,

it looked very, very similar, as similar as a vast desert can look to me as the actual place, which was awesome. So I'd love to hear what was it like, man, for you stepping foot on what could possibly be where a UFO, no matter what that UFO was or wasn't, where it possibly crashed and was subsequently covered up, which we'll get to. But yeah, what was that experience? Like going out to the site and what did you guys do out there? I got to ask, what kind of tools did you bring?

And this is a very high-tech investigation, which we're not used to, which is really exciting. So yeah, let us give us some teases on that if you don't like. Oh, man, it was a thrill to be out there. I've never been to New Mexico before. It was my first time, especially to the debris field. You know, I've read about it. I've read many of the works that you cited by Stan Friedman and Don Smith and Kevin Randall and all the other great researchers who put a lot of work into piece into this

puzzled together. But being out there for the first time was pretty incredible. You know, whether or not a UFO crash year or not, it really is the genesis of neufology in the United States and a global culture for UFOs and government conspiracy. And so you have to give it that space, that kind of reverence. It's beautiful. It's desolate. You know, you have to put yourself in the shoes of someone like Jesse Marcel or Mac Brazzle to be out on that field and really be alone with this strange debris. And it really takes you there and kind of haunts you in a way. But yeah, we tried to give this a really thorough investigation with all the resources.

We didn't want to just turn over new leaves and say, oh, this is a potential new lead and not take it, right? We need to follow every lead and chase it into the ground and then see what shakes out of it. What evidence can we present? What can we find? We wanted to change the conversation. And so we brought every tool. I can't give away too much about what kinds of tools,

but we brought every tool that we could to the debris field to see if we could find, A, any potential degree, B, evidence of a cover-up, and C, and or see evidence of a large-scale cleanup. So, you know, over time, even after 70 years, with the right technology, you can tease out some of those details. So that was our goal in bringing out some of the heavy-duty equipment and, you know, unprecedented technology to the field. Right. And again, that's what I found so refreshing about this. You know, when I did a televised investigation as well, you're always hesitant with these things. And Denise, I mean, you've seen and heard it all. If you can't bring something new to the Roswell case,

what's the point? And so, you know, we did our best to bring new stuff to the table as you guys did as well. And I think that's amazing that after 70 plus years, we can still look at this case with friends. fresh eyes and hopefully someday get an answer that I know, Denise, you have wanted, your father wanted, your grandfather wanted. So it's awesome. I think it's so cool that people are still willing to look into this case and uncover things as they happen. And you did bring up the word cover-up, and I would love to touch on that with both of you. I mean, Ben, you know, you know after looking at this thing, like there clearly was a cover-up of some sort. And I'd like to get your observations on that. But Denise, first, what was it like, you know, with your grandfather and your father also having

touched this debris at one point, the cover-up and what the military did to your father, or, excuse me, what the military did to your grandfather in all this from a personal standpoint. you know as as i this has been a actually this the show has been a real journey for me it's it's gotten me in touch with um some of my relatives a lot closer than that i was previously that um actually knew my grandfather their their family knew my grandfather and he had talked to them about what he experienced and everything and from a personal point of view I just feel like in some respects the government really let down my grandfather. I mean, he was made to be the fall guy.

And I think it was more of a burden on him than what I realized. I think it affected him. And I know it affected my grandmother, too, quite a bit. It was just, I think that there was no, I don't know if redemption is the right word for it. But it's just, you know, when you have people calling you names and saying that you're crazy and that you don't know what you're talking about, when he knew exactly what he was talking about. And he knew that he was telling the truth. It's hard to live with that. And I just want somehow for my grandfather's name to be really cleared of this, because I believe what he found out there was something that wasn't from here. And I think it's time for our government to come out and tell us what exactly did happen out there. Whether it's a movie night or just midday, Skinny Pop is a salty snack that keeps on giving.

Made with just three simple ingredients for an irresistibly delicious taste and a large serving size that lasts. Deliciously popped, perfectly salted. Skinny Pop, popular for a rea. Shop Skinny Pop Now. What's up, guys, Ryan Sprag here, and I'm just dropping in to remind you about our Patreon campaign. Somewhere in the Skies is always free to consume, but it's not free to create. So if you want to help the show on a monthly basis, we have tons of rewards for you in return, including shoutouts on the show and website, bonus content and episodes, and free merge.

Want to be my guest or pick a topic for the show? You can do that too. So if you'd like to learn more and help you. help support the show, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Thank you and keep looking up. Now, Ben, what does that mean to someone like you in the intelligence world when it comes to to this covering things up? I mean, there are those out there who argue, yeah, there was probably a really good reason for this to be covered up. And others who say, no, we deserve to know the truth. And it would be vindication for someone like Jesse Marcel who knew, oh, this was not

a weather balloon, as it's been quoted. So for you, what would a cover-up of this level? Why do you personally think the government would do this when it comes to the Roswell crash? It's important to keep in mind that this is the center of national security in the entire country in 1947, all the most important secrets, all the most important technological developments of the World War II and the immediate aftermath happened here in New Mexico. So anything that happens here is going to cause reverberations across the U.S. government. Now, intelligence services around the world have flimsy and sometimes damaging cover stories to cover their operational requirements or missions or when disaster happens to sweep things under the rug. I myself have used cover stories

in the field, and they're very effective at protecting national security sources and methods. And so I don't have too many, I don't have a bone to pick with the government for covering up whatever crashed out there because obviously it was important whether we'd go with the mogul explanation that this was an airplane device for Soviet atomic testing or whether it's an alien spacecraft or some other experimental craft. There's a good reason to have a cover story. But that comes at a cost. And here it came at, you know, Jesse Marcel's immediate health and the health of his family members. and his grandchildren as well are still dealing with the cost of this cover-up. Why the government decided to lead with, if it's not real, if it's not a UFO crash, why would the government decide to lead with an alien, a UFO crash cover story?

That to me sounds explosive, counterproductive because it would draw more attention to whatever crashed out there. So there's some lingering questions. If that was your go-to response, it wasn't a very good one, and it certainly wasn't effective because here 70 years later, we're still dealing with the aftermath. And to my mind, the government still hasn't convincingly come out with a credible explanation of what really crashed there. So there are a lot of questions. I come at this as a neutral euphologist. I haven't had any close encounters of my own. I have spent a lot of time working or talking to individuals

who have. But I think it's definitely a possibility, and as long as it's a possibility, we need to take it seriously. So that's the lens that I view this at. I haven't arrived to any decisive conclusion yet about what happens there. But I know that there are still lies being told. And how do we get to the truth of that? I think by continuing to investigate and continually to pressure our government to respond effectively. Right. And I think, you know, data and evidence is the strongest thing we can have. And it's good to see that, still happening. At this point, we have third, fourth hand stories that we cannot verify or fact check. I mean, unfortunately, many of the firsthand witnesses are gone at this point. So all we really

have to rely on is strong witness testimony and the data. And I mean, this reverberated throughout not just your family, Denise, but I mean, so many in the town as well were told to keep silent. were threatened. Mac Brazell, the rancher who found the original debris. I mean, this ruined this guy's life from what I was told. I mean, he became depressed and kind of an alcoholic after that. And like you said, Ben, this has real world effects on the people involved. And I think your show really touches on that human aspect to it as well in bringing in all of the children.

And once children, I should say, right, Denise? And I mean, it's such a powerful case and the fact that we can still look at, at it, I keep saying this is incredible. So kind of wrapping up specifics of the first episode that I saw. We won't get too deep into it. Again, we want people to figure it out from themselves. But there's also been rumors that there was wreckage, possibly stored somewhere else. Someone had their hands on this, and it's been hiding for years. I've heard it. Don Schmidt, everyone involved with this case has heard this at one point or nothing, but nobody has been able to find it. So I have to ask, is this something that you guys are looking into? And what can we expect

on the front of possible records still being out there somewhere? I mean, I personally think that there's, I mean, something came down in the desert. So there's got to be a trail of that stuff somewhere. Somebody's got to have a piece of it somewhere. And I think it's very important that we try to find out where this is and bring it to light and examine it and have it studied. What do you think, Ben? Well, first I'd like to kind of pick a bone with Don Schmidt. And I've done this to him to his face. And maybe we'll have this discussion next week at Alien Khan.

But he makes a lot of editorial assumptions in his research. Somebody knocked on the door and demanded the materials, right? Backbrazzle, Bill Brasel, a number of townspeople who said they had a piece was confiscated by unknown people at the door. And my one point that I would like to raise in this investigation is, well, do we know who they are? They didn't identify themselves. And if this really is a UFO crash, every government of the world is going to want a

piece of this. So those with operatives in the United States at the time, and there were, we know there were in New Mexico providing information to the Soviets, may have also been impersonating government personnel to get a piece of this. So if we don't have it here, we need to broaden our scope and really challenge which government might have a piece of this and do our best to track that down because it's still an open question and like i agree with denise 100% that um there is a piece of this aircraft or there is a piece of this craft somewhere uh and that's a key part in kind of solidifying for me personally

in deciding or making my best guess what happens i'm still i'm still in search of that evidence we have some real good leads at the end of season one, and the journey is not over as far as I'm concerned. But it's convincing, and we give it the due diligence, the rigorous analysis that it deserves. Awesome. Yeah. And, I mean, again, this is that carrot being dangled in front of us for 70-plus years.

So, I mean, I guess kind of bringing it to current day, UFOs are kind of in the mainstream like never before. New York Times, Washington Post. You know, various other news outlets around the world are covering this topic in a way they never really have before. You're not hearing the X-Files music played behind news broadcasts or, you know, the side-eyed glances and in giggles. This is serious stuff. And our Pentagon created a task force to now look into it after being kind of forced in a corner to admit they had been secretly investigating UFOs for, you know, eight plus years within the Pentagon. I'd love to get your guys' thoughts on that.

What does your show on the Roswell case and bringing forth all this new evidence, what does it mean for the world today when it comes to the entire UFO question? And it's kind of how this topic has been perceived throughout the years with a lot of stigma. Whoever wants to jump in with that. Well, I just, I think it's personally, I think it's being more well accepted today because it is more in the mainstream. I think that I think it's just because

I don't know I always you know our national security is involved here too so I think that we do need to know if we're being monitored or being watched from

something that isn't from here we should know that and I think that as a citizen of earth I want to know if we're being visited I mean after all that is one of the biggest questions we can ask ourselves is are we alone? I mean, I don't know the bigger question that we can ask ourselves.

And I think that I'm just happy that it is coming out more in the mainstream media. I'm glad that the Pentagon is coming forth with showing us stuff that, yes, if they have been, there was a task force involved in this. Yeah, yeah. And again, you know, if all comes to like someday, maybe we'll finally get those lost files. on Roswell. But Ben, what do you think about this kind of new world we're living in with the UFO topic? I mean, I was afraid to talk about this with my friends for so many years that I was into this stuff. I lost so many second dates after saying I was a UFO researcher. But things are changing, man.

They are changing all over the world with this. So, yeah, what do you think your show has to contribute to the overall conversation that we're having today about UFOs? I am continually surprised by the positive feedback I get from people across all spectrums who are curious about UFOs, who are reasonable, intelligent, educated people who have ideas about what is happening in our skies that I think deserves more credibility and more excitement about, honestly. These are questions that we should be pondering and preparing for. But I think it's exciting. The U.S. government had denied these programs.

for a long time to come out and say that it is seriously researching and putting together taxpayer dollars to investigate these topics really, really will do wonders for the field, but also I think they should be open to citizen engagement, right? We see that NASA is doing it now with amateur data scientists sifting through mountains of terabytes for exoplanets and anomalies in space to find out. And I think the citizens can be a force multiplier from the Pentagon and for the intelligence community. Probably a lot of bad apples and bad information, white noise, but also in there are some credible sightings, some credible

details that could be the key to really figuring out what is that craft in that video or what did that person see or why do we have this activity over this certain part of our country? Could do wonders for moving the research forward. Right. And I think what kind of sets apart what's happened today from something like Roswell in 47 is the government and the military didn't really know how to deal with this back then. And, you know, it's almost understandable that they would try to keep a lot of it under wraps if they didn't know what it was or what was going on. Whereas today, like you mentioned, we have like citizen astronomers and just people sitting at home sifting, like you said, through data. And that goes for the UFO. as well. Some of the most tenacious people out there are in the shadows. Never, you know, they're not on television. They're not on podcasts. They're not in the mainstream media touting things. They're doing hard research and really making headway. I mean, there's new companies coming out.

There's one we just started, the debrief, where we cover defense and technology. And I mean, we broke a story yesterday about two of the reports that were leaked within the intelligence communities about what they're looking into in the current Pentagon Task Force. So again, you know, whether I don't know your thoughts on stuff like that, then we were not the ones to find it. It was provided to us by intelligence leaks. That's a whole other story. Kind of, I guess, wrapping that up, Ben, what is it like as a former intelligence officer?

What are your colleagues, former colleagues, your friends, your family? What do they think about you now looking at Roswell? I had to ask it, put you on the spot about that. You know, it runs the gamut. Some intelligence colleagues, community, I see colleagues, are just wondering why, what am I doing? Because it's not on the register of the spectrum of threats that they deal with right now, and to some degree.

And others, like, hey, run with it, man. you're always weird. Do you do you? So the feedback runs the gamut. And that was a professional question I had to ask myself. Like, what damage am I doing to my credibility by entering this space? And I just thought it's important enough. It's interesting enough.

The wonder, the possibility of intelligent life out there was enough to overcome those reservations and just dive right in. You know, this is, I think the field needs a voice like mine to really, sift through and make sense of some of what we're seeing on the national security perspective. Can we rule out this event? Maybe it was a training exercise. Legitimately, maybe it's an experimental aircraft, but maybe and possibly it's something else entirely and we need to really own up to that possibility.

Right. Yeah. And, you know, that maybe is what kind of keeps us going. And I mean, I'll say this, man, we need more people like you in this field because we've kind of fought against people like yourself and vice versa. so long. And I mean, I can't blame either side of that debate. To be honest, it is what it is. But, I mean, that transparency within government, I think, is something that's really important for the world right now, especially here in America, you know, where a lot of people don't trust the government. They're not

even trusting science. And, you know, we won't get into that sort of debate, but it is, it's hard. It's a challenge. And it's kind of been gradually happening where we have a mistrust in our government. And things like the Roswell cover up are reasons for that until we find out why it was covered up. And like you mentioned, there could be very good reasons for that. So kind of wrapping that all up, guys, what can we expect in future episodes of Roswell First Witness? I know we dug into what was going to be in the first one, but anything you could tease for us about what's coming up on the show. That's dangerous territory. I'll let you take that.

It is. I know. And I don't want to get you guys in trouble. I just know, there's some different people that they've interviewed on it for the show. I don't know. I, you know, there's a gentleman that they interviewed that claim to have known my, you know, met my grandfather and we're discussing pieces of the material. That was a lead that we followed down. It's very intriguing.

I don't want to give anything away about that. We'll leave it at that, yeah. I'll add to that and say that, you know, if there's an important piece of evidence to this story, we take a hard look at it and we bring new technology to interrogate it. So you're going to look at some of the established pieces of evidence, whether it's the rainy photo, whether it's the Marcel, some of the Marcel photos or interviews.

We're going to get as investigative as we can and really look for that evidence in those hidden corners. and see if we can learn something new. And we do. I feel like we do. The show really is exciting, and it carries it through the end. It's worth watching all the way through the end. I've been on TV before, and I can't say that about other shows, even I've been involved in.

But this is one that I really feel passionately about, and I think it's going to be successful. Awesome. I mean, if the first episode was in any indication, I think it really will. It opened my eyes to a lot more ways to look at this case. which is, like I said, so refreshing when it comes to the most famous and controversial case of all times. So I can't wait to see what comes next. And before we give the specifics on the show, this is always an active investigation. Even after the camera stuck rolling, I know, Ben, you're still looking into this.

I am, Denise. I know you are as well because you want answers more than any of us for your grandfather, especially who deserves that. but is there anywhere that people can reach out or connect with either of you if they have any leads or things to follow up with what you bring forth in in the show? I'm not sure, Ben. What do you think? I'll have a personal website up. It's not up today, but it will be up soon, aka Ben Smith. You can find me there if you have any leads. You know, I want to be a contributing partner, voice researcher in this investigation going forward

and any leads would be super helpful. And you can always contact the History Channel as well, and they can get a hold of us. And if we convince History Channel, and we can get more money to really investigate these things, which is where a lot of the magic happens. But it's been a trip regardless. And I think that, like you mentioned, as you said,

this is just, for me, this is just the starting point, an entire investigation into the UFO phenomenon and based around, you know, the Roswell. Yeah, it all starts at Roswell, and hopefully it'll come full circle sooner than later. But once again, the show is Roswell First Witness. It premieres Saturday, December 12th on the History Channel at 9 p.m. Eastern Standard and Pacific. So everyone, please go check out the show. I can't wait to see comes next.

And Ben and Denise, I have to thank you so much for joining me today on Somewhere in the Skies. Oh, thank you for having us. Thank you, Ryan. It was a treat. Real pleasure.