Somewhere in the Skies - The Future Freaks Me Out

Episode Date: May 31, 2021

On episode 215 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we are joined by author and journalist, Mike Damante to discuss all the latest UFO news and a controversial new article he published about a witness of the 1980 Rendlesham Forest Incident who appeared to have vanished during the event. Then Damante talks all about his new coffee-table book, Hey Suburbia: A Guide to the Emo/Pop Punk Rise, which chronicles Damante's in-depth reporting on this often overlooked era of music and the bands that blazed its trails.   Pre-order "Hey Suburbia" at: https://amzn.to/3uDxGWJ  Visit Mike Damante at: https://www.punkrockandufos.com/ Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Somewhere in the Skies Subreddit: www.reddit.com/r/SomewhereSkiesPod/ YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan’s book in paperback, ebook, or audiobook by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Episode edited by Jane Palomera Moore Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan's bread. Welcome everyone to Somewhere in the Skies. And this is an interview we actually had to reschedule for very, very good reasons. But I'm so happy it's finally happening. We're going to be talking all about the latest stuff going on in the UFO world in 2021. And we're going to be talking about his new book, which for once is not about UFOs. So that's going to be exciting. It's about another topic that is near and dear to tomorrow.

my heart, and that is pop punk and emo music. So I hope you'll nerd out with us for that part of the conversation. But first, let's talk UFOs with the one, the only Mike Tiemonte. How's it going, brother? Great, man. Thanks again for being flexible-winter scheduling. Like I was telling you, all fair, it's always good to talk to you, whether we're recording or not. It's always fun. So I would enjoy the opportunity just to chat. Yeah, exactly, dude. We got plenty to chat about. But, you know, elephant in the room. Let's talk about why we had to reschedule. You just had your first child.

How is it going over there, man? How is it being dad Mike DeMonte? It's the best. And like we were talking about off the air. Everything like stops. It's like screwy UFO, screw everything else. It's like I was describing it to, who was I talking about? One of my friends.

And like, you know when you watch a movie and like in the movie like things got like slow-mo or like if you're watching like a superhero movie and there's like or science fiction there's like a rip in the timeline of earth like as soon as a baby comes out that's what it felt like it felt like the earth like changed like if you guys see it's so cool justice league like you know when the flash runs and like slows up that's what it felt like happened like it was a crazy feeling and i think people who are into like kind of like phenomena and you know paranormal stuff you know it's it's a similar i think it's a similar feeling like a game changing type of thing where it literally feels like there's like a ripple in the world like it's crazy like people i guess who you know who've claimed

you know stumble upon you know a different dimension or something it kind of felt like that would feel that leave it to mike devonte to compare having a child to something paranormal or supernatural I love it brother I got to find out because then the listeners would get bored hearing me talk about babies for welcome to baby hour right no congratulations man that is amazing and again the perfect for a rescheduling. So we're going to have fun. Hopefully get your mind off the baby for just a little bit today. Let's talk all about UFOs first, if you don't mind. I don't think I've ever actually asked you this question. It's kind of the origin question that I ask everyone, but I don't know if we ever discuss this. What really got you into UFOs first and foremost? And is there one

like kind of case that you came across, that you continue to chase up until today or would consider your favorite? Well, I think we talked about briefly before like how I got into it, but in terms of actual case, I mean, I think the main thing that really spearheaded my, my reinteresting if those, before I had my siding and I actually started to invest in right on my own was when I read Communion. I think the Whitley, the Whitley-Sriever case just, it felt like a punch of in the gut. It was almost like start paying attention. So as soon as I read that book, I was just super fascinated more so than I was as a kid, you know, when I was a casual observer UFOs as well. So that really reignited kind of my interest. And then, you know, you obviously

go to the big ones like Roswell, just because it's, it's the biggest one that happened in North America in terms of like, one of the origins of, you know, the UFO boom in North America. So Roswell as well. But recently, I mean, more of more. more interested in Rendellshund, which I was always aware of it. I always read about it. I've seen, you know, documentaries on it and stuff. But my interest has really kind of grown more so since a story I've done recently on it. Right, which we're definitely going to touch on in a little bit here.

Because, yeah, you came across something that you ran by me, you know, kind of being the Rendlesham guy to many out there. I can't even pretend to know half of what other researchers know. But I have looked heavily into the case from every witness's perspective. But you found something really interesting, which we'll get to. But before we do that, my man, can you give us kind of a brief overview, I guess, of the trilogy of books of punk rock and UFOs? Now, for a lot of my new listeners and viewers who may not be too familiar with your work in the UFO field,

tell us a little about this trilogy of books that you came out with. So it's funny. I never really intended to be a trilogy. I just wanted to write one book and go from there. And I have a journalism background. I worked full-time at Eastern Chronicle on the copy desk, doing copy editing. I worked on their website and also did some writing, too, for, like, features in sports. So I do have a heavy journalism background.

So going into writing a book was kind of different because you're used to writing differently. So the first book I did was more so my own personal theories, as well as tying it to some other things that, other people's theories. and really just trying to paint this picture of this is an underdog science for a reason. And that's why the punk rock and UFOs connection kind of comes in two different, you know, underdog subgenres. So the first book was made basically about this is an underdog. It's punk rock UFOs cryptosualogy meets anarchy. And it's basically looking at this from the view of why this is an underdog science.

The second one, true believers, punk rock and UFO's true believers, was more about kind of looking at the people who study this. and kind of drawing parallels to these people who are studying it and what they're exactly studying and how it's been viewed in different lenses throughout time. And almost, you know, and George Knapp said that's not me. This is actually a really good compliment when I was on Coast to Coast. He said, at the end of True Believers,

I kind of take off my journalist hat and it gets very persuasive. And that was the point of true believers to try to invigorate people to want to read more, who, you know, maybe people who really learned in the subject before. And then the final book, Stranger Than Fiction is probably the best one out of the three. I think, you know, Ryan, you know, you're a writer, you know, when you continue to learn and grow with each book. And Stranger in Fiction is really the culmination of all of them. With Stranger than Fiction, I want to do something that, in my opinion, really hasn't been done that much in terms of, in terms of UFO books, is to kind of draw parallels and normalize paranormal. And I did that through taking current events, real-life cases, as well as stories from the Bible, mythology, religion, and our pop culture throughout time.

It just draw all these connections. And that was the main part of the book. Because, you know, someone picks up that book and reads something and say, oh, Monoac, that's like Stranger Things. Or, hey, Star Wars has this big hairy Chubaka. It kind of almost looks like Bigfoot, who's been reported in biblical in ancient Sumerian text. So it was kind of that thing. And that book, I really wanted to reach out to, you know, a lot of different people, scientists, journalists, UFO investigators.

Who did I get for that book? Are you, obviously? I had to get Ryan in there. Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal, because those are two big journalists who were really responsible for the 2017 boom. Sean Cahill, Kevin Day, Tom DeLange. I interviewed all them because once again, these are people heavily responsible for kind of where UFOs are at today.

Right. And I know you interviewed several, you know, people in the comic book industry, in the cinematic universe industry. And I mean, look, man, you had an Instagram post recently about a pyramid. And lo and behold, now that's bleeding into the UFO world yet again. And also the Eternals trailer. Everyone was freaking out about this, man. You got this huge kind of, you know, triangular UFO coming in.

And really, I guess, I don't know much about the Eternals, to be honest, but to me, it screamed kind of this cargo cult, which you talked about in one of your books as well. So we're seeing these things played out in the mythology of Marvel, D.C. And that's what your third book really, really resonated with me is, again, these stories have been around for centuries and they just, they get repackaged over and over again, which is so cool. And, you know, a lot of people who always advocate this has been happening forever, right? through films and stuff.

It's a slow disclosure. A lot of people don't like to hear that. But it's the reality. It's, you know, none of this, nothing's new. This has been happening forever. So, you know, I think it's good that we teach people to start looking for these parallels. Like, I didn't see the Eternal's trailer.

I saw your post with the poster. That's how far behind. And you said trailer? I was like, oh, there's a trailer for it? I need to watch this. But all I know about the Eternal's is it's very similar to DC's version of new gods. It's basically like older gods before everything. So I'm really looking forward to it.

As soon as I saw your post with a poster with the triangle, crap. I was like, oh, I'm the same minute. But now that you said there's a trailer, I need to watch that. Just to throw behind on why. Understandably, brother. Yeah, I mean, we're moving into what is it phase four now of Marvel, which makes me feel so old now that I think back to when Iron Man first came out. I think they just had like the, what was it? Was it the 20th anniversary? I hope that's not true. Maybe 15 since Iron Man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which made me. definitely feel old, but look at how far

we've come. It's amazing. And that kind of goes back to the strength of those characters, right? And all those, you grow with them. And this is the thing that I kind of like mentioned in the book is how, as we grow and progress, these gods or whatever you want to call them, you know, like Thor, you know, beside and all these things you hear

in mythology, they grow, but they're seen differently. Now Thor exists in our pop culture, where back then he may have existed as a real person or as folklore or as represented in a statue or a painting, now it's common pop culture. Everyone knows who Thor is. Right.

Yeah, that's such a good point. Yeah. And then you go to the other side with D.C. and you've got, you know, Zach Snyder, who a lot of people don't, you know, respect as a filmmaker or a storyteller, what have you. But the dude knows how to shoot a film. And also he really touched on that.

And I believe it was Batman v. Superman, the whole God's aspect, which you covered in the book as well. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's kind of pertinent now with, you know, the Justice League, you know, Shinerica coming out a few months ago, which I was so stoked for, and I really rarely enjoyed it,

but that's something that a lot of people were dinging him on from the start was his darker tone, but it's like, it's true. If Superman existed, if an alien being came down, there would not, the masses would not embrace him with open arms. There would be debates. There would be, you know, I mean, you just goes on in our country on a daily basis,

And it's like, it's insane to me. So imagine what would happen if an alien being came down from the sky. And that kind of ties into what a lot of people are talking about with the threat aspects of UFOs, right? It doesn't necessarily mean it's a physical threat, but it's just this idea, you know, what is this thing coming down from the sky? We don't know what it is. We don't know some tensions and so forth. Such a good point. Yeah, we're seeing it reflected in today's mainstream coverage of UFOs.

And, you know, these individuals who believe that this is it, this is, Disclosure, it's happening. The aliens are going to land or something's going on, which we will discuss. We got so much to catch up on. But let's talk about this article you mentioned, Rendelsham. Now, we know the stories of, you know, the guys who went into the forest and saw a craft, you know, Penniston, John Burroughs, deputy base commander, Colonel Charles Halt. These stories have been around for a while now.

We've heard them. We've heard every, you know, I guess version of them. But there's another side story to all of this that I didn't know about and that actually someone came to you with. So can you tell us a little about this development in the Rendersham case and how this article came to be? How did this happen? Yeah. So anytime someone comes to us with something, no matter who they are, you know, we always take it with a grain of salt because of, you know, our journalistic standards, just the fact that, everything we present is very extraordinary to begin with. So you really have, so this is like, you're the first person I told about. So like, let me run it by Ryan. You know, he has a really, you're more experience in UFOs. And you really have a good meter. You know, like you filter, you like, what you choose to put on your show,

what you choose to cover is very distinct. So I think you have a good filter of what to run and what not to run. So you're one of the first people I reached out to, I reached out to you, Alejandro Rojas, as well, saying, hey, have you ever heard anything about this? Just because I was, you know, you're generally skeptical when you hear these things, especially when someone comes to you. I'm like, I'm not big.

I'm not CNN. You know, I'm not a big outlet. But in this case, you know, it's weird. You know, you think that, you know, our little UFO club is small, but it's obviously really big. And it's, I swear, the more you talk to people, the more someone knows someone who's seen something or has done something or works somewhere. So it was that sense where it was like a friend.

a friend mentioned something in passing about a relative. Like, oh, you should totally talk to this person. I was like, okay. And really not, you know, we're just really kind of vague about it. Oh, yeah, you know, he's seen a lot in his day working for the military. And, you know, I'm just thinking, okay, cool, it's going to be, you know, maybe some cool sightings or like, you know, but it turned into being something much more. Maybe that's, I don't know, I live in Houston, so it's the fourth largest city.

So maybe that's something to do with it. I don't know. So I got in contact with this person. And I don't want to reveal too much because it is a friend of a friend. but I made sure I let him know, hey, look, I need to, you know, do a background. All these things cover my butt just because the story sounds like so extraordinary. And he was totally cool, you know, presented his military records and everything. They all checked out.

And everything he said in terms of like, you know, when he served and where he served, all lined up. But yeah, he had a lot to say, you know, about UFOs and just a lot of stuff in general. Just, you know, really, I felt like I was talking to one of us, someone who's really open-minded towards this as well as society and how stuff works, you know. So long story short, this person was a communications official and was stationed in Germany at the time. And part of these communications were you'd be getting stuff across a wire. It was almost kind of like email, right, or a different form of communication.

Not like a telegraph, but something more, you know, a little more technologically advanced. So back then, so he would see things all the time that would come across. you know, this wire. Basically, it's like a newswire, but it was only for, it was clearance that was beyond top secret. So it was like very few people were seeing this stuff. And, I mean, to him, it was, that was the weirdest thing he saw in all his time there. It was a Rendelson incident.

And the fact that, and this is a big pull of the story, was that somebody didn't return. And when I heard that, that immediately, like, something went off my head. And I'm like, wait, I don't remember, because I said to myself, I know, enough about this case. I know the five Ws of it. I know what Remuson's up. I never heard anything about that. So, and that automatically struck me as something that we need to talk more about.

And he says he doesn't know if the person eventually came back, but for the communication that he got and has heard, the person never responded. And the way he, and I kept saying abduction, abduction. And he was like, well, I don't think it was abduction, more rather it was something that was purposeful. Rather, like, a trade or someone willingly got on one of the ships, that's what he was just, that's the conclusion he was drawing from what he read. But, like, he's seen a lot. And like he said, you know, he's read, it's interesting, he's read all the Tom Clancy books. And all the Tom Clancy books are very military accurate.

So it's just another kind of example of kind of this, you know, fiction, nonfiction, stuff blurring. But, yeah, so the big thing was kind of how there's people that have to have access to some of these events and some of these military codes, right? And they were able to write about it. So it was interesting to him that, you know, Tom Clancy was able to kind of get all this military stuff. But yeah, for him, you know, this was the weirdest thing he saw, the fact that someone, you know, didn't come back.

And we started talking more and just, you know, he knows about the case, but he's not necessarily like a, you know, a UFO buff. Like he knows everything is going on, you know, nowadays since it's on the news. Other than that, he wouldn't go looking. for it. He always kind of believed in UFOs and there's, yeah, there's probably something out there but he didn't actively pursue it. So when he read this, when this

came across his wire, the fact that somebody maybe didn't come back, it just struck him as odd. And really interesting thing too is that he's more surprised, more people who've seen it haven't talked about it. I don't know if it was a you know, I don't know if it was

a clearance thing or people were afraid, but it was just huge shock. He's just obviously a lot of people would need to know clearance saw this come across. So that was the big takeaway from that. Apparently somebody, for some reason, we don't know, you know, I'd call it a deduction, but we don't know what it was, but for some reason this person didn't return. So yeah, that was, that was huge. And just talking to him, he's really open-minded about, I just paying attention of what's going on in the world as well and other stuff. And he thinks the UFO phenomena, and this is something we've talked about too, is he thinks this is going to be a gradual thing,

just like everything else. He's a history buff, so he made a great point. Anything that happens in history happens over time. Any change, whether it's like a civil rights movement or a political movement, it happens over time. And he thinks what's happening in this country now is representative

of what's happened in the past. Things that gradually change over time. You're not going to get disclosure overnight. He didn't say the word disclosure, but basically, you know, the UFO phenomenon, it's not going to happen overnight. And that's what people have been telling us for years. And we've kind of refused to We refuse to believe it. And, you know, when people say these things take time and, you know, a lot of UFO people

scoff at it and say, oh, that's, that's just BS. That's, you know, you guys are stalling or whatever. But we're seeing it happen now. And it's crazy in 2017, all the to the stars people were saying, it's happening now. And all this stuff really does take time. And it's just, you know, it's just crazy to kind of see that come to fruition. Yeah, it is a process. I am firmly with the person you interviewed.

and with you, man. I truly believe that we're getting there, maybe slowly but surely. I also don't believe, you know, that this pending UAP report is going to be grand disclosure of any kind, which we will discuss. But that's so fascinating. Again, just when you think, you know everything about Rendell Shum, something else comes along, which is very important. All of the key witnesses are mostly still alive.

So I agree with someone like David Clark. who is a UFO skeptic who's covered Rendell, Rendell Shum a lot, that we're very fortunate to still have a lot of the people involved with this, and that it might become the most important case, even past Roswell. So I think that's super fascinating, that you've added another layer to the mystery. You have to wonder, too, someone like John Burroughs, who said he experienced some sort of missing time during this event.

So are we dealing with some sort of abduction, scenario. I don't want to go that far. But also, the other intriguing part you mentioned is this person was never seen nor heard from again, at least according to the individual you interviewed. We know for a fact that after these events, everyone involved, all the personnel were like shipped off to Germany, shipped off to Japan, like anything to get everyone separated so that they didn't come together, get their story straight, and go public with it. So you truly have to wonder what happened to that individual we may possibly never know. But that's super fascinating, man. What do you take away from it? Do you think we're dealing with aliens abducting people in

Rendell Shum? Or what do you think overall of the case? I don't know. Well, it was really fascinating to me is, you know, I did some more research on it because it's been a while since I've read it. I was watching the Steve Greenwald video, what is it called, the New York Post thing he does from the basement. Oh, Stephen Green Street. Green Street. I'm sorry. I was in the green shirt. Yeah, it was with him and Nick Pope. And I totally forgot that the whole Jim Penison thing with the coordinates. Yeah.

And the coordinates landing towards like the Irish folklore version of Atlantis and certain, you know, the Nazocca lines and pyramids. Like that was mind-blown to me. It was interesting. The person I interviewed for the book, I mean, for the book, for the story, I didn't really ask somebody knew much about the case. But he believed the same thing Pennison does where he thinks that it's coming from time. It's a time. traveling elder. That's what he thinks. That's personally his opinion. He said multiple times, don't quote me on this as fact. This is just my opinion based on, you know, I person believes

on what I read. He says, you know, he thinks it's something coming from a different time. I thought it was really fascinating that he said that, and that kind of goes with what Jim Pennison believes as well. So there's a lot of really interesting things he believed based upon what he read that kind of go with the key witnesses as well. Yeah. Oh, no, please. But I was going to say, like, you know, you mentioned me, I'm covering, like, a new part of it. I thought it was going to be huge. Like, I was going to blow up. It's just so funny.

I was like, dude, welcome to you following you. Like, just when you think, and that's, it's frustrating because, again, I know, I know you took the time to vet this individual. Like, we were talking, you know, through text and everything, like, all right, make sure you have all your ducks in a row, which I don't have to tell you. You're the one who went to journalism school. I am a quote unquote journalist, according to some. some of the people out there who don't think too highly of my work. But that's a story for another

time. You actually went to school for journalism. You know what you're doing. So I know you would not have put this out if you didn't firmly believe there was something to it. And again, your source is not saying this person was sucked up into a UFO, but we have that sort of lore in UFO history that there have been exchange programs, something like, you know. let us study your craft and you can take one of ours or let us study your entity and you can take one of ours. So it's crazy, man. Yeah, it's crazy because like, you know, it really is five degrees of Kenon Bacon. Is that, remember as that it?

Because even before this, like maybe a month or two before, another friend of mine reached out to me on Facebook saying, hey, I know you're into your foes. You know, I read yourself sometimes. I got something to tell you that you can't tell anyone. I'm like, oh, come on. Like, don't do this. And he's basically telling me that, yeah, this person knows someone close to them who's working on the report right now. And I'm like, oh, my God, can I please?

He's like, nope, I can't even tell you this person's name. I just want to tell you that it's happening and it's, you know, it's, and even said, the person even said to me that, you know, this person, he tries to discuss it with this person. And it's always kind of like side eyes, like the response, It's kind of like a wink and nod type of thing, just because so much of this stuff is so classified. But I ended up doing some research,

and I found out who the person is, but I can't say anything. I can't reach out to them because I get this other person in trouble. So it's crazy that they're like, somebody who's working on this report right now, I'm separated by one other person. Literally one person. If I could, but it's like it's such a, you know,

it's the thing where you don't overstep your boundaries in this case, you know? Absolutely. I was working for like CNN or Washington Post. I may be a different story. I may be able to do it that much. But this is more of a, I don't want to break someone's trust. You could eventually be a source in the future. Yep.

That's very important in journalism. As frustrating as it is, you know, we got some flack over at the debrief when we came out with those first, you know, UFO report leaks that we got of people being like, why can't you name them? Why can't you name them? Because that's how you keep sources. So just be happy. We're getting anything.

But on the flip side, I do understand a reader's perspective of, well, then we're just taking your word for it. But that's what journalism is. And it's been that way for a very, very long time. So it's up to you to either take it for what it is or don't. And that's the freedom we have of being on the outside of the story and reading it. But let's talk about. Yes, go ahead. A lot of people don't realize that the sources are ran by editors. So, and I'll tell people, I mean, I write for the debrief too as well.

And MJ does not run anything that would damage the credibility of that brand. Nope. Bottom line. So, you know, everything goes through them. They're the editors just like it would, you know, a mainstream newspaper. You know, when I worked, even when I want to do something, you know, when I was in the chronic, I wanted to just write a story. You have to get approved by others.

Same thing. You know, it's, and if the editors approve the sources, then there you go. that's all you need to know in terms of whether it passes. If it passes the sniff test of the editors, then there's really not much explanation used to the public saying, well, I can't you name the sources, you know, especially when it's something sensitive like this, you know, people, because sometimes naming sources could be damaging to that person's

personal life, reputation, and work, especially, like I said, when we're dealing with people who are in these higher levels of government, and something we're going to talk about later, I don't know if this is coming up, but it'd be a great segue. Louis-Alzado is a great example of that. of somebody coming out and then people trying to damage his reputation.

Absolutely. Well, yeah, let's do it. Let's dive into that. A recent article at Politico, I'm just going to read a little bit here, Mike, from the article to give people some context. So this comes directly from Brian Bender at Politico, quote, former Pentagon official Elizondo, who went public about reports on UFOs, has filed a complaint with the agency's inspector general, claiming a coordinated campaign to discredit him for speaking out, including accusing a top official of threatening to tell people he was crazy,

which, like you said, that's what we deal with with sources in this field. They don't want their names out there for obvious reasons, stigma, ridicule, which is shedding. So let's see what else. Elizondo filed a 64-page complaint to the independent watchdog, the IGs, on May May 3rd and has met several times with investigators, according to his legal team. Wow. What else do we have? Elizondo told the IG he has evidence in the form of emails, documents, and the public record,

which, quote, suggests a coordinated effort to obfuscate the truth from the American people. Like, these are not light words, man. This is not just like speculative. He is, he's claiming some pretty serious stuff. right before this report is due on June 25th. So what do you make of this whole Politico thing? This is crazy. Yeah, when I came across,

so I was hoping earlier off air, and it seems like I saw it come across my feet. I'm like, oh, Brian Bender wrote it, I'm going to read it. Because there's so many UFO stories this week that are mostly just kind of rehashes of what we already know. And like, right away, you know, nothing in that was really a surprise to me in terms of, because Elzano was in saying this from the start. As soon as he came out, he said that they were going to,

going to be some who are going to attack my credibility. You know, he said he may have a target on his back. He said it wasn't a popular when he left, you know, and his plan, you know, when stuff he was saying when he first left, it wasn't going to be popular. People told him that. He's been saying this the whole time. So then when people were coming back, you know, when the Pentagon was being wishy-washy with, you know, what his responsibilities are, what his role was, I mean, he said that

was going to happen. So to me, it was no surprise that, you know, here, here's, here's, there was. we're at now. And I mean, there's people, you know, I think a lot of people did their due diligence in terms of seeing a few as the right person. But if Leslie Kane, Hohann Cooper, and Ralph Blumenthal did it, then, yeah, you should believe that. Just because of the standards and practices of the New York Times, if they can deem credible enough to run that first story, then that should be enough for everyone. I know some people in the field made it a really a goal there is to really try to discredit him. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus. But I think,

we all know who we're talking about. And I'm not trying to, you know, talk mess or anything. But, you know, they really try to not necessarily drag his name or the mud, but try to find evidence that would potentially say this guy's not who he says he was. And that's what Alizano said was going to happen. And then here we are. So I think it's all kind of full circle. Yeah. You're so right.

I didn't even think about that. He did say from the very start, like, get ready. They're going to try to say, I didn't work at the DOD and this and that. which they're still dealing with. I mean, we've, we've had quotes from the Pentagon saying, nope, he didn't. He wasn't the head of the program. Nope, he did not work for the Department of Defense.

So, like, it's all about wording, man. And we know with intelligence people and stuff like that, it's all between the lines. So this is an interesting story, again. It seems like Elizondo's not going to, you know, put his tail between his legs and just move on. he's ready to confront the Pentagon, especially when this report is due. So he is the one saying, we got to keep putting pressure on him.

Or, you know, it's going to, we're going to be back to the end of Project Blue Book. You're going to not get anything. They're going to say it's not a national security threat and they're going to move on. Or on the flip side, they're going to use it to their advantage and say, we got to pump, you know, $8 billion more dollars into the Navy or this or that. So I don't know. I don't know what to make of any of this. to be honest. Like, it's too much. Like, we had nothing for so long before 2017. We were talking about

the same damn cases over and over again. And now it's almost like, it's just like everything else in the world. We don't even have time to process things before we have to move on to the next story. So I'm dizzy. I feel like every morning I wake up, I'm going to be like, okay, what, like, what's going to happen today, which is what we kind of felt the last four. years with Twitter, I think, as well. So just when we thought we were done with waking up to something crazy on Twitter, now we have it in the UFO Twitter world where we wake up and it seems like some big bombshells out there. And I was thinking about this, conspiracy theorists or having a field day with this right now. You think about everything

that's happening right now in this country, like in the world, right? Imagine if there's something to, and I'm not trying to play into any of that, but just imagine the argument that that there's something to bring humanity together. Because there's so much division in this country and all throughout the world right now. So if there was an alien threat, would that bring us together? Even let's look on the flip side. What if it united us in a positive way? What if we said, you know, this is real?

We can better the world for everyone with this technology. And that brings us together. What about on the flip side of that? But like, I saw something the other day that really had me worried. You know, it's like, you know, because I said, conspiracy theories are probably going to be crazy with this. I'm a big fan of a big fan. I'm a big, sort of looking for it.

I appreciate reading everything that the Bledsoe's put out that Chris and Ryan do, because I think it's really fascinating. And Ryan Bledsoe, his Twitter, I think, is a gem because it's just full of, like, bread crumbs, whether you believe it or not. And he said something the other day about, you know, there's going to be people in power who want to bring, you know, end times again. And there also may be a false narrative pushed over the UFOs.

And that clicked in my head. I was like, oh, my God. If I'm a conspiracy nut, I'm thinking, you know, people in power, and I'm not trying to get political. But it's true right now. There's a party in this country right now who's doing everything they can to make things bad, make things worse. So that is true.

Check that box, right? And now there's a looming UFO report that could potentially, that can maybe that could be manipulated in some sense to either, you know, cause division or cause unity. So like that kind of had a conspiracy. you know, nut in my brain kind of put those connections together, but I know there are people who are taking this, you know, way further than that. But I just think it was interesting to think about, like, what if there was a point there, you know?

Yeah. Well. It's just like crazy. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good point. And again, you know, not getting too political. We've had this conspiracy theory thing going on for the past four years.

So it's hard. It's hard. Nobody knows what to believe anymore. on either end of the political spectrum. And again, it seems that the answers seem to always lie somewhere in the middle. But you're right. There are individuals out there. And now we have that divide in the UFO field.

You've got Elizondo and these pilots saying, you know, it's a potential threat. Like, we've got to be careful. And then you've got someone like Dr. Stephen Greer on the other end of the spectrum, saying Elizondo's a disinformation agent. This is all planned or the planning a coordinated false flag. alien invasion, and don't listen to them. Aliens are peaceful. They're peaceful.

I can bring them in with flashlights if you don't believe me. So, dude, I get it, man. It's like we've gone from red and blue in the overall world to now Greer or Elizondo in the world. It just mirrors it so badly. And, oh, man, I don't know what to make of it all. It's exciting times. It's also scary times.

It really, it's like, it's because it's like you hear all these. impending, you know, not conspiracy theories, but all these, you know, relations, all these things that you hear and you're like, man, that kind of sounds like what's happening right now, but that can't possibly happen. Right. But you're like, well, what if? And that's part of, you know, that's irrational too as well, to think that what if scenario. But I just think the UFO stuff happening right now.

And the fact that it's happening right now and it's like, it's making headlines. And that says something with everything going on in the world of the country right now, and this is making big news. I think that speaks volumes in terms of where we're at right now. I remember I think last time I was on about a year ago, we talked about how when the Pentagon officially said, hey, these are real. You know, these videos you've been watching for the past three years, they're real, for sure. They dropped that right in the middle of the pandemic, thinking it was to be buried. And it didn't.

It was like a top news story that day. So I think it's same thing's happening now. I mean, this isn't going away from any news coverage regardless of what's going on. If anything, I feel like it may even be burying some of the bigger stories, you know? That's a good point. Let's talk agenda for a moment here. You have Jeremy Corbell, you have George Knapp, you have the debrief, who are all sort of being given these, I don't want to say breadcrones. I think that's condescending in a way, but they're given these leaked reports or these videos.

Someone like Corbell and Knapp dropping two pretty big. exciting UFO videos for us to debate for, you know, for the end of time yet again, or something like the debrief, getting some of the reports of this possible triangular UFO emerging from the ocean going up into the sky and getting photos and videos of it. It's crazy, man. So what do you make of all of this stuff coming to light before we even get this pending UAP report? Why are these things being given to who they are, I think, is a big question.

question in people's minds. And yeah, why? Why now? Why are they doing this when the reports coming soon? It's funny. I'm going to quote Chris Wolford, the title wave. He said in the end there's going to be a tidal wave of like UFO stuff. And I always thought that was so funny, but like in a good way. He's like spot on. I was going to be a tsunami. I think this is just part of it. But it's like, it is interesting, you know, who's getting it. I mean, the brief makes sense just because of the brand. You know, it's defense, it's tech. Like I said, it's a very slick brand that stays on brand.

Yeah, you know, they'll deviate and do kind of like more funnier, like hardest stuff. A lot of stuff I do for them is just kind of more of the fun or crazy science stuff, you know, just because it's interesting to me. I like writing about that stuff because it's different than, you know, what I usually write about. But that makes sense. George Nat makes sense. Jeremy Corbill is a filmmaker makes sense to a degree.

I think it's kind of weird that he would get it. I guess it makes sense because he's associated with NAP, and I'm not trying to, you know, downplay any of Jeremy's accomplishments. I just think it's kind of weird that it's going to a non-mainstream filmmaker, if that makes sense. And I think part of that may be his association with someone who's very credible in George Knapp,

but it's interesting that it's going there and not CNN or, you know, Washington Post or something. It's not, like I said, it's not a knock towards any of them as well. So that's just interesting to me. And what I'm thinking is, you know, these smaller sites, and, you know, like a bit of brief and Jeremy. Not that, you know, extraordinary belief is a small site,

but as opposed to, you know, MSNBC.com or whatever. Right. That they're getting these videos, right? But think about it if, and then a brief is getting stuff. If we're getting these videos that are pretty revealing, but nothing mind-blowing, imagine what they have that hasn't been given out yet. And where that goes, you know, if I guarantee you, they probably have, not only phrase that, I don't guarantee you,

but if they have something that's on part with the TikTok, I'm pretty sure you want, you know, CNN or, you know, New York Times to get that as well. So I'm thinking, my belief is they have heavier stuff that will come out eventually, I think, too. But I think right now, I think they're really trying to get as much of this stuff out, whoever's doing it, you know, whoever's allowing this, you know, to be seen. Because like I said, if I'm reading a story about tech and defense and I see the debrief.org, and I've never been there before, I look at it. Oh, this looks cool.

This looks incredible. You know, if I don't know who George Knapp is and I Google him, say, oh, okay, he's a real journalist. If I Google J. Moore Corbell, I said, oh, okay, he's written, you know, he made films about this. So it would make sense to kind of land there. But I think it has to be strategic. You know, I think there's probably bigger stuff that I think at some point

would have to land on a larger outlet. And that's not disrespect to any of the previous people, you know, or outlets that we talked about, one that we both write for. It's not disrespect to them at all. But you would think, you know, like if there's another, or something similar as like the TikTok view, you think that would land to Washington Post, New York Times or something.

Yeah, absolutely. And I have to agree with you, Mike. I think possibly what we're being given could be a little less, I guess, exciting to the, not just the mainstream overall, but what the Pentagon is willing to release. And we've, it's funny too, because these videos that Jeremy put out,

they were authenticated by the Pentagon spokespeople within hours of Jeremy putting them out. Whereas the videos originally from the DoD, it took almost two years for them to acknowledge that, yes, these are official Navy videos. They remain unidentified. What we don't know about what Jeremy has released is if these objects still remain unidentified.

We know these videos were used in the brief, things given to, you know, people within the intelligence agencies or the military. These were the videos they showed them to be like, what do you think it is? We got to figure this out. Maybe they did. And they're like, okay, we can probably let these give it to the public. You know, that'll satisfy them for now at least. Whereas something like you said, the Tick-Tac is like they can't argue that that remains

unidentified, at least that we know of that's not classified. So I do wonder, too, if these are the things that are like, it's fine. Let's just let them put it out there for now. So then they'll have something to be like, okay, we got a little of something before the pending UAP report when we don't give them anything. If that's the case. I hope that's not the case. Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it if that report isn't anything. Well, we at least have these videos.

And speaking of which, just a few minutes ago on Twitter, I was reading before we recorded, Sean Cahill, who for those at home, was one of the witnesses of the Nimitz, Tick-Tac incident. He quote tweeted Jeremy's latest video and basically saying how everything checks out in terms of like the military protocol, the speech on it, the way the radar looks. I thought that was a really good endorsement of that video.

Because some people may look at it and say, oh, I can't see anything. This is just a radar. Like what is, you know what I mean? Some people may say that, but you hear Sean Cahill saying, no, this is, their reaction is normal to what they saw. So I think that's pretty cool.

It is. And again, for those watching or listening, you know, this will go up Monday, today's Thursday, May 27th as we're recording this. So who knows what's going to happen between that and when this releases Mike? But you're speaking about a video that Jeremy dropped today, May 27th, of the radar to the, I believe it was the Omaha incident, where the objects seem to submerge into the ocean. If you can write a general lat long where we're at.

Good sir. And the number of contacts you got, get the force the speed meters off. Job you. I mean, enrolled a position to us. It might be helpful too. Eyes up. Hi, yeah. Okay.

May 10-2. May 8-track, maintain track, a passenger. Track 7-8-1 just sped up to 46 knots, 50 knots. Goes in. That much pretty much perfectly zero zero zero relative, right? Yeah. 263, three miles. 55 knots. Speed.

We're seeing all of the different objects that were tracked on radar. It wasn't just this one object that went into the water and they actually went to investigate, tried to find it and they couldn't. It's, again, being a part of these swarms, we keep hearing with the Tick-Zack event. or the GoFast. Like we're seeing one object in these videos, but everyone there is saying, dude, like we were, it was raining UFOs that day, man.

Like these things were everywhere. So what the hell is that if it's not Chinese or Russian, as a lot of these people are saying, that's very troubling in my opinion. So I'm glad Jeremy put that out. It just gives us more context, which is what we need. And it's more data, which is what we desperately need in this field, especially when it comes to videos like this.

So yeah, I think it's pretty interesting, man. Well, let me ask you this, to the stars. Now, you've met DeLong, you have interviewed him. You followed the course of To the Stars Academy from the beginning up until, I don't want to say it's end because I don't think it's completely done with. But any sort of new revelations or observations that you've had recently about where to the Stars Academy lies today? Well, it's interesting because when Lou and Chris Mellon left,

obviously it's like when you lose your two biggest heavy hitters in terms of credibility, you're going to have to pivot somehow. And for them to kind of go, okay, we're going to do a little bit more of the entertainment aspect. I think that was expected, especially when you lose those two people. But it's almost, you know, this is kind of like what I think was intended from the start, not for them to leave, but for Tom to eventually do more of the entertainment stuff. What she said, I want to make, do books and movies about that incorporate elements, real elements of the phenomena and put it, you know, in fictional works. And that's one of the quotes he gave me from my book, Strange of the Fiction, because this is something that's been going on for 70 years now.

So what they're doing is really no different. So I think now he's actually getting more opportunity to do that because as the company pivots, and we don't know if they're fully pivoting that. We don't know what's happening with these apps they were developing. I'm trying to figure that out. I'm trying to find that out right now. We don't know what's happening. some of these other, you know, things that they were doing. So we don't know at this point, but we do know, you know, to the Stars as a brand is, you know,

concentrating more of the entertainment element. And I think this is something that was kind of planned from the start, the Tom knew eventually, you know, concentrate more on the entertainment side of things, which he was talking about doing even before to the Stars Academy even started. So lately, there's been quite a few nice little breadcrumbs that he's kind of left for, so for people who are unaware, he has two bands, Blinquenade 2,

which he's not currently in at the moment, but Angels and Airwaves, this is other band. And Angels and Airways for years have kind of tied in themes of consciousness and dreams and the universe and love and all these types of new agey,

paranormalish kind of stuff in the music. You know, these themes and kind of ran through Angels and Airwaves and music. So they recently started like a little fan club thing and, you know, I'm a nerd, nerdy fan boy. like yeah I'll join it so it's always interesting to see what kind of like what fans say anyway he was Tom was doing an interview um with uh Allison Hagendor for Spotify and he mentioned the Montres of California which is a movie he did during the pandemic and it does sound similar

to kind of strange uh strange times which is a kind of young adult super bad meets paranormal this sounds like an adult version of that anyway long story short he mentioned he wants it out by Halloween. And one thing I took from that in view is he said the third act of the movie has a lot of stuff that UFO people will dig. And it's all from, you know, current real events. So that was really interesting that the third arc of this film is going to be heavily influenced by real stuff. Because in the secret machines books, there's a lot of stuff that was shop that he put in there that's apparently based on true stuff as well. So that was interesting to me. And then recently is band Angels and Airways released a video

for a song called Euphoria. In the video, somebody did this. Someone in the fan club, they called it. They slowed down a scene. And in the video, basically, there's this girl and a guy they're meeting up, and it really doesn't tie what the song's about. The song is actually about kind of toxic masculinity

and how it's such an awful thing. But the video is basically about this girl capturing out of this guy capturing and is stealing his badge. when you freeze frame it, the badges of clearance for Area 51. Yes. And it's great. I caught that.

I was going to text you the photo. I totally forgot. I'm so happy you're bringing this up, man. And then the name on it is Pete Anderson. Now, for many people say, well, what's the relevance for that? So Tom has a whole other franchise called Poet Anderson. Oh, right. It's all about like dreams and sleep studies.

And it's actually really cool. So it's interesting that. Pete Anderson. So is he somehow tied? all his fictional components together. And I was thinking, because they shot three music videos back to back. So my theory is all these videos somehow tie in to Monsters of California, which is supposed to come out in the fall.

That's my personal theory. But I think that it's interesting that, you know, he's putting these little, say to say it again, these little breadcrumbs for the stuff he's doing, all this stuff he's doing to the stars and the Angels and Airways videos and stuff too. So that's really interesting that he's kind of tying in, you know, the ideas of Conscious and Dreams that he did in Poet Anderson, it's a kind of 3051.

And also, another thing, too, is there's something that they're hinting at called Project Dreamland. Now we're not sure. Is that the name of the album? Is that something they're associated with the album? But they did send out to, the record label sent out 50 cassette players with coordinates and the fans who got it would have to, like, figure it out. And the coordinates were like three dates and locations.

And basically now we know that these are shows, concerts or whatever. Oh, damn. I was hoping, dude. I was hoping it was the coordinates to Element 115 in the desert. But it's interesting that, you know, Project Dreamland, the book, Dreamland, that was put out by him, by Tom. Right. Kind of by a, not to the stars, but a, what is it? Imprint.

Imprint. There you go. The book's called Dreamland, Dreamland, Larry 51. So there's Project Dreamland, Dreamland, and now there's the air. Area 51 bad showing up in the videos. I think it's really clever. And whether people, you know, care about, not, care not about, you know, his non-UFO stuff.

This kind of ties in with it, in my opinion. So it's just fascinating to see what's going to come in this film and, you know, what other Easter eggs he's leaving us. And but once again, I mean, this is, you know, I'm not, I like to defend him because I think he was right all along. Everything he said in 2017 eventually happened and everything he said he wanted to do with the fictional elements of it he's doing. And even if Lou,

even if Lou and Chris left, and let's say to the Stars Academy, folds is like a science division and becomes an entertainment. I mean, mission accomplished, right? I mean, you could argue that Lou and Chris Mellon are maybe better position now to go forward with whatever they're going to do next because of the momentum they got with those stories in the New York Times and that will push to the Stars Academy. So, yeah, that's why.

So I think everything, you know, everyone who kind of laughed at him, everything he said is kind of coming true. slowly and shortly. Yep. I couldn't agree more. And I'm hopeful for the future, no matter what. I would like to know a little more about, you know, Crata in this agreement they had with the arm, meta materials. But maybe we'll get there. Maybe we'll get there. What's up, guys, Ryan Sprague here. And I'm just dropping in to remind you about our Patreon campaign. Somewhere in the Skies is always free to consume, but it's not free to create. So if you want to help the show on a monthly basis, we have tons of rewards for you in return, including

shoutouts on the show and website, bonus content and episodes, and free merge. Want to be my guest or pick a topic for the show? You can do that too. So if you'd like to learn more and to help support the show, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Thank you and keep looking up. All right, Mike. I want to move to the second part of our conversation today. We did mention Tom DeLong and you can't think about Tom DeLong without thinking of Blink 182. One of the greatest most successful pop punk bands of all time. I think I've seen them four times live in my pop punk history. But yeah, let's go there, brother.

Hey, Suburbia, a guide to the emo pop punk rise, your new coffee table book that you came out with. You've moved beyond UFOs and gone back to one of your other passions, my man. So tell us a little about the book. How did it come about? What made you want to write it? And yeah, give us a little understanding of what we're dealing with here. So it's been a passion project, I guess, on and off for the past five years.

Just years of, like I said, when I started working at my college newspaper, it was myself, I write probably 90% of the life and art section, just me. At some point, I was writing 10 articles a week. I had my own beat, which was oddly enough, which was technology. but I was also writing features how I do like you know do like CD reviews interview bands or whatever so at that time I was also you know besides going to school during the day and working for the school paper I'll go at night and work at the Chronicle I had my Maduro doing like proofreading and just very minimal stuff so eventually once I graduated and I was still working at the Chronicle

during more real real heavy lifting word more editing I brought my portfolio to future saying hey I really like you know interviewing these types of bands doing this type of music because they had two staff writers, so you really didn't cover pop punk or punk rock or emo at all. And they said, sure. So every once in a while when something would come up, I would do it for the paper or for the website. I started covering Warpedor for them.

And that just kind of spiraled into, hey, I always felt like I was unofficially the pop punk beat writer, unofficially, because it was never like an official thing. But I was like, hey, can I cover the show, please? I could take pictures. You don't need to set out of photographer. You don't need to pay me since I already work here. And they're like, sure.

So for me, I was getting to cover these shows and, you know, play music journalists. And, yeah, so all those years, you know, I mean, I was able to meet and interview so many of my favorite bands and heroes. Ackline Trrio, Bad Religion, Newfound Glory, Blank, taking back Sunday, kind of, you know, warped tour, all those types of bands and the whole scene. So, you know, I was thinking, you know, I have so much rich history and quotes from this time period in this music. that was always really to me a huge integral part of my development as a young adult. I grew up as a 90s kid. I graduated high school in 2000. So it's like transitioning from high school to real life.

And that music plays such a huge part for me when I first discovered it in 1997 until now. So I wanted to write some of it. It was kind of like a love letter to that scene. And the book really took on different iterations before finally coming up with this idea of doing a coffee table book, something that's quick, referenceable, a light read informative. Also, it would have pictures, photos, essential albums, viewing guides, charts, lists, etc. And there's testimonials from people in the bands, people from behind the scenes, and then also me kind of telling the story.

And so much of the broker was already written because I had all these great quotes that I've done through the years from all these bands. So it basically just piecing it together, finding a way to make it work, and they're finding a home for it. So that's how it kind of it really came to be. It became more reality, I think, the past year when I was, because I would pitch it and it kept getting knocked down, you know, a bunch of people, no, we don't want to do it. Or the publisher that did it, you know, they put us on my other books. And when I pitched it as a coffee table, they grew as a company and they do children's books.

And they just recently released a guide who was basically like a bird watching guide, something like that. They're familiar with doing these types of books now. So they've really jumped on it, especially right now. I mean, this music is kind of having a comeback. You know, My Chemical Romance, when they announced their, obviously was postponed due to COVID, but it's sold out in like an hour all around the world, which is crazy. All these cities still have emo nights, you know, so it's like, and now you have all these mainstream pop stars and rap stars making pop punk.

So it's like, this is a really good time to release. I was holding. This is a really good time to do so. And right now, the book's on pre-order comes out June 10th officially. But right now, right now it's still the number one new release in your first. music encyclopedias on Amazon, which is blowing my mind. Ah, congrats, man. That's so...

I'm going to be able to you, right? Because you also had a number one Amazon for stuff like the skies we do, so... Yeah, absolutely, brother. It feels good to be on the top. It's all downhill from there. Hey, Newfound Glory. Did you get that reference? Thank you.

Oh, good. I know you're a good for the Glory fans. I am, man. I remember, I went to see Newfound Glory, but they actually were opening for Blink. So, obviously. everyone was there to see Blink 182. But me and my buddies, Bruce, Dan, Dave, and me, the four whitest names you could ever possibly think of in suburban Syracuse, New York.

We went to see Blink in Newfound Glory. And we were like in the front row and we were the only one singing every lyric to NFG. And they kept looking at us. They're like, whoa, whoa, this is pretty cool. So they kept like coming up and literally like singing right in front of us, which was so cool. And then we left before Blink started. No, I'm just kidding.

We stayed. Dude, during that concert, I don't know if you saw that tour, you probably did. But Travis, like, as he was doing his solo, he lowered out of the stage, like some Phantom of the Opera shit. And he disappeared, but the drum solo kept going the whole time. And then his drum set and him appeared in the audience and then floated back onto the stage. It was one of the most insane things ever. Yeah, the drum riser. They did that. I'm not sure that it was that tour or it may have been pop disaster or Green Day or maybe the reunion tour they did that on. The core of the referencing

is what the BFF word sign. Yes. Yeah, a lot of fire. Yeah, that was when you found glory in Midtown. That was, I think that may have been one of the first concerts I ever went to. Oh, cool. Awesome. I didn't really go to shows in high school. When I was in college, I started going to shows. But yeah, that was a good tour. It was awesome. And I didn't know if I've ever told you this. I kind of got my journalism start. Again, I did not go to school for journalism, but I like to pretend. I worked for a site called Alt Rock Live, where I kind of did the same thing. I would do CD reviews. I would interview band members. And that's kind of how I got my start. My favorite band at the time was

Amberlin, the alt rock band. So it made perfect sense to interview them. And I got to interview the lead singer of the band, my favorite band. So again, these opportunities you get when you're in that space, if you're a true music fan in that genre, it's indispensable. So again, your posting photos of you with Tom DeLong and all these like iconic people in the punk movement, pop punk movement, it's awesome. And you can feel the love in the book. the one that you gave me, the advanced version of, like you said, it's a love letter.

And it's a moment in time that a lot of us remember, but a lot of people don't even really talk about. So I think it's awesome that it's coming out now. Like you said, I think it's kind of coming back the whole movement. So I'm excited, man. But I guess to kind of play off of that,

tell us about the photos and the illustrations in the book. they were so cool. Tell us a little about the artist and how that all came about. Thank you. So the photos, I took them. I dabble. I don't consider myself a photographer, but I took photo journalism 101 and I used to shoot my own shows at The Chronicle. The Associated Press, once used one of my photos, so I kind of blew my mind. So I know how to take a picture, but I don't concern myself a photographer. So I just kind of use some of my old photos that I thought would work well in the book.

But the artwork is really, really a rad selling point, my opinion. And so for years, I wanted to work with this artist. Her name is Cassie Potish, and she does a lot of great t-shirt designs for bands. She does some 41. She did a less than Jake, and she designed Senses Fails a logo. So she's worked with a ton of more bands. Those are ones I name off top of my head because they're kind of the biggest ones. But I wanted to work for when I did my, I wrote a young adult fiction book a few years ago,

and I wanted her to do the cover, and it just didn't work out. So when this project became reality, I was like, she has to do the cover and she has to do the art in the book. And as soon as I linked up with her, like, she was totally down. And yeah, it's awesome. Because I really think her style of art is so distinct. And I think when people see it, they're going to know. And it really brings together that aesthetic of like a band book and stuff. So yeah, her art is really cool.

She really has her own style. Yeah. What I think she did in the book was really cool. He came up with her recreating, iconic. albums and her style. So the My Chemical Romance Sweet, you know, three cheers cover, but instead of two faces,

it's like two skulls. Or it's like the Weas are the Blue album. It's just a weaser, but they're all skeletons because she's just a really cool skeletal style. So, yeah, I thought that was a really fun thing for her to do in the book. Rather just, you know,

hey, do a skull man with a guitar, you know, like. Yeah, it was super cool. The American Idiot one, too, really popped out to me. Again, like, I was a product of this generation and this genre of music. So, you know, anyone who's listening or watching right now who wasn't really a part of it,

I totally understand this might be a little alienating. But there's always something I think we can take from certain genres of music. Like you said, rock and roll and rap. And they all come from this sort of cultural thing that has a message that they want to convey out there and get it out there. And there's a reason people like you and I really resonate. like this kind of music resonated with us, where maybe it doesn't for someone else. But what do you think it was about pop punk, punk, emo that really made you want to follow that course? That was like your kind of music. You're tatted up. I'm the same way. Like, we're all

about the style of this sort of music. And it meant a lot to me, man. And seeing this book brought back so many memories of like what was. So yeah, what is it about this genre or the genre. I should say that really stuck with you. Well, thank you for saying that. Because nostalgia is definitely a invoking nostalgia is definitely part of the book, but it's also for people who are new to it. It's to kind of, you know,

teach them the roots. You know, the roots are where these bands came from and so forth. So it's part nostalgia and it's also part educational. That's why it's like a guide. It's not like a 500-page book. It's more like something you can pick up in the coffee table and, you know, learn about, you know, the roots of some of these newer bands and so forth. but yeah

the style of music resonated with me like I don't know what it was maybe it was the underdog element I don't know but in the so I'm originally from New York too like yes I think we have in common and then when we moved from New York we moved to Pennsylvania a little town

for like maybe a year or half a year and I didn't know anyone I was kind of like an outcast there and I had one friend there the whole time and we played Dungeons and Dragons together like we were really nerdy and when I was moving to Texas he gave me like some CDs and it was like get up kids

Julianna theory like trade up old school emo and then like blink Cheshire or Kat and I listened to him and something kind of a white bulb kind of went off in my head and then you know a couple years later in 1997 and this stuff starts coming out more and it starts blowing up

and you know I love I'm a product of you know 90s music I love 90s hip hop 90s alternative rock and a lot of the punk rock and scott music was becoming popular then too I mean, I loved, you know, first time I heard, like, no doubt and, um, mighty, my boss tones and stuff, you know, on the radio, that was huge because it was, you listen to them side by side with, like, you know, Pearl Jam and third eye blind and stuff as well. So that was a really good time for me, personally, you know, developing when I felt like, you know,

I was an outsider and I heard Blugged 2 Dude Ranch for the first time. And that kind of blew my mind. That's still, to this day, my favorite album of all time. So that really kind of, you know, got me interested in that. style of music and then you learn more about you know the cultures or subcultures what it all means and as well so you know you could that kind of carries into the booms of the early 2000s on it really was like said and you can even go back to 1994 too when green day and the offspring hit it big too you know it really didn't stop but 97 it kind of reignited a little bit and then

99 it really blew up again from 99 until about 2000 I mean depending on who you ask you know 2000 30 as well so yeah for me it was always kind of you know and in the book I kind of met, I have, you know, a few theories about why I resonated with so many people at certain times as well. And I think you could really draw parallels now to then, you know, one of the things I talked about was how the youth was feeling disenchanted back then. The Iraq war was like a really contentious point. And the youth really didn't have much to kind of, you know, grasp on. And now, if I'm a youth now, I probably feel similarly, you know, if I'm a young person of color, if I'm a young person who's trans or who's gay, like there's a lot going against you, right?

So that style of music is very relatable now to those kids. So I definitely can see why it's making a comeback. You know, if you listen to, you know, if you just turn in, you know, you just turn it on to, you know, this emotive music or this rage field punk music or this really energetic pop punk music that's, you know, maybe singing about sad themes, but it's also upbeat. You know, it's all these things that I kind of see. I mean, I attribute to that to come back too, you know, is that there's a lot of young people

and other people feeling a certain way, especially with stuff that's going on around them. And I think there's no better way to rebel than to listen to this type of music. That's such a good point, man. And I think it connects us more than it doesn't. Even if, like, Pop Punk isn't your thing or you come from a different generation.

I remember NFG did a virtual conference not too long ago. And I was so excited, man. I think they were doing the whole Sticks and Stones album. Self-title. They did self-title. Oh, it was self-titled. You're right, yep. Yeah, I had hit or miss on it and everything.

And I remember being in the chat for that virtual concert. I was there too. You were. You were doing the viewing party. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember seeing all the people talking about how old they were. And like, oh, my God, this brings back so many memories. And what was really cool is, like, I was in there.

I remember when the self-tit album came out. And then there were people like 10 to 12 to 15 years younger than. me, be like, this is like my first time hearing it. And that was, that was it for me. Like, I felt old going into that virtual conference, but it came out on the other side being like, this music still speaks to people. People still like it and love it and want to hear it, even if they're new to the genre. So I think it was a beautiful kind of communion that shows that, you know, even if it's not your thing anymore or whatnot, like you can all come together somewhere, no matter what generation you come to, and appreciate it. I think this genre of music

is underappreciated because it's considered pop, punk, and a lot of the, you know, the OGs kind of look down on it when, you know, something like Green Day went mainstream or Blink went mainstream. So yeah, what do you think of that whole aspect of all this? I know you touch on it in the book of going from like super old school Green Day, Project Ivy, I believe it was. Operation Ivy, thank you. I knew it was some sort of military term. What do you make of stuff like that, these transitions of bands going from like super hardcore or punk

to a more pop punk sort of feel? Well, I think it's like when people get into pop punk, it's like it's a weird, you know, it's your gateway drug into all the other, because punk is just like an umbrella. There's always a little subgenres that hang under it. So it's like, I think for me it was pop punk and then it was old school punk like dead Kennedy,

and like bad religion and then like the california stuff like bad religion descent is no effects and then it's like emo and then people go through their hardcore phase and then you go through your post hardcore phase and you go through your indoor phase then you go back to pop punk again it's just like something weird thing but uh i think a lot of things you're saying was just really telling about how you know your label connect to music makes you feel old but it's like the nostalgia element of it like every time like you know you'll see a band's like oh 20 year anniversary or this record and it's just mind-blowing to think Because it feels like yesterday that I was sitting in my in my room. So at the time of 2000, so in 2000, I was renting a townhouse.

It was me and my roommate from my mom. My mom moved out with running the townhouse from her, Pinguitt. I was working 40 hours a week at a restaurant while going to community college. And I just remember in my free time, I would sit in my room right behind me. It was like all these like posters and band stickers. And I'd be on AOL, you know, and then I have Napster up downloading music. And then like I'd be going to shows and concerts. And that was like the coolest time.

So like it's cool to kind of revisit that, you know. And it's it's really telling that, you know, that this music really never went away. You know, this whole time, it's all these bands still exist. They all tour. They all put out records. You know, the boom just kind of died a little bit, you know, in terms of, but you could argue in general that a lot of rock music kind of died a little bit in the mainstream for a while.

So it's just interesting to me that it's kind of making a comeback now in the weirdest ways, through hip-hop and pop stars. I was listening to the Olivia Olivia-Rodrigo album the other day. And it was like a song of it sounds like Paramour. And I was like, whoa, this is like a pop-up song. And the first song sounds like kind of like a 90s alternate rock. So it's pretty cool that's seeing like pop artists and hip-hop artist

kind of, I don't know. I mean, there's this party that's also like, you know, the gatekeepers saying, who are you to make this music? But it's like, hey, if, you know, if kids discover, if kids listen to Machine Gun Kelly and then go back and retroactively listen to Newfound Glory or Scroaching Weasel or Descendants or, you know, some 41 or Good Charlotte, whatever. You know, cool. So be it. Yeah.

That's such a good point too. And I'm glad you brought up Machine Gun Kelly because I remember when he was working with, was it Travis? Travis Barker. Yeah. Travis produced his record. Okay. You know, and they had that cool Alien song that they did. And it was like a super progressive drumbeat throughout the whole thing, which really brought me back to like the early punk days.

And someone like Machine Gun Kelly, I was the same way when he first came out with like all this sort of punk or pop punk songs. I'm like, who is this idiot? I thought he was like a hip hop artist. But you're right. You got to step back and be like, let them like explore these things because then they'll gain an appreciation for it. And I really respected something Machine Gun Kelly said, even though I don't listen to his music really. I respect something he said in an interview, maybe with Rolling Stone, where he said, I want to constantly challenge myself and my listeners so that, you know, maybe I do have a rap album. Maybe I do

have a pop punk album. And that's what we should be doing. Like, it should be a constant evolution. Because if I'm just putting out the same style every time, what's the point? So I think he made some really good points in that as well, that like you can as a musician or an artist grow. and change. And if those people who truly respect your work support you, they'll go along for the ride. So I think that's pretty interesting. Yeah, there's a lot more genre blending in mainstream. It's music in general nowadays. I mean, look at Post Malone. Right from the start, they're like, is he rap enough? What is he doing playing guitar? He's singing too much. Is he not hip-hop? But like right from the start, you know, there's a lot in the mainstream, you see a lot of genre blending. And even in like punk rock stuff,

you know, it's, you go back to the clash and the damned. And they were genre-blend. They were one of the first punk rock bands to define the sound and were genre blending. You know, The Clash had reggae, reggae themes. They had slower songs. The Damned had, like, slower pianos and as well. Then you had bands like Kugazi, who just totally took the scene and kind of turned out on its head as well. So it's really cool to even look back to say, hey, some of these, like, OG punk rock fans were genre blending men, too. So it's interesting.

And I think a lot of fans can tell who's being authentic about it and who's not as well. So I think, yeah, I think that's up to people to decide, you know, who's really in it for the music. Who's in it for that? I get it, brother. Yeah. Well, yeah, in Post Malone, I'm so glad you brought it up. We got him in our world now. Visiting Skinwalker Ranch.

The dude's seen UFO. So maybe he'll have his own UFO show coming out soon. We'll see. Well, yeah, Demi Mado has one. So stealing money, stealing food right out of her mouth. And I was one of those people who complained when I first heard about it. And I've since tempered that. Because, again, I think it's really important for celebrities to help these subjects get out there.

You know, there's a lot of pros and cons on either end. Where do you land on that whole thing? Are you excited for this dummy Lobato show? Or what do you think is going to happen? I mean, I get it. I get what you're saying, too, because I feel the same way. It's definitely a double-edged sword because it's like I was complaining about it. And so my friends were kind of like,

picking at me on it. It's like, dude, you don't understand. Like, I, you know, myself and others, you know, have interviewed for these shows. And we've been told, oh, yeah, you're the one. And then the show's never happened. The next thing you know, the show comes out with the guy from, with, what's his face, the guy from who plays Spock and Star Trek starring in it. Right. They didn't need the money. And great, yes, they may bring more exposure, but they can do that other ways. Demi Lovato, just tweeting about UFOs is going to bring, you know, is going to bring eyes of the subject. So there is, you know, there's the old gatekeeper part, you know, where you're like, they shouldn't be doing this, but you get it too. Oh, yeah, they're going to bring new eyes,

but, you know, like, you know, I think about, I don't just think about myself, but I think about other people who have interviewed for these shows, too. Like, like, you're someone who, your industry was hit heavily this past year, heavily. And I, you know, I can't imagine, you know, having to try to make ends meet during all that, and you're potentially up for a show and you lose out to that show that could potentially be life-changing to a millionaire. That's where I kind of get defensive about that type of stuff. And it's not like, you know, Demi Lovato or they're not doing it on purpose. They have no idea probably that, you know, there's better quality researchers to do their show.

But you look at it on the production side. They're saying, oh, well, this may get a lot of ratings because it's, you know, William Shatner and Demi Lovato or Zachary Quinto, that's his name. Yeah. There's definitely two sides of you. I get it. But, you know, I think we can't feel at least a little spite of especially when it's like, you know, I can really use that money. Yeah, absolutely, man.

And I said on the show, point blank, like, I know that you and I were up for things like the Zachary Quino show. Or I know for a fact I was up for the Demi Lovato project. So it's that bitter side of us. But again, I think you're so right. And I actually spoke to one of the people that Demi Lovato interviewed for her. upcoming show and they told me she's no joke man like holy crap she knows what she's doing and she knows the history so that's again it's it's even going back to the tom dolong days when people are like he's a rock star staying in your lane but then you listen to him talk about UFOs not on joe rogan

let's forget that ever happen you hear him talk about UFOs and you're like whoa like he's pulling out stuff like these deep cuts from books that like you never were to have expected he would read read. So yeah, I have hope. I know she'll do a good job with it. I hope she does a good job with it. But let's circle back to the book. I know we always finds its way back to UFOs. But what is some of your favorite interviews that you did for the book? Again, this isn't just like your thoughts on the genre. You were out there interviewing these people as they were living it and as you were living it too. So yeah, what interviews really stuck out to you? So in the back of my head, some of the later interviews I did,

I was planning to do a book eventually. This was kind of towards when I was like, you know what, I'm eventually going to do a book. So some of the interviews, it's usually when you interview a band, you know, your questions are geared towards a certain angle of the story. Sometimes it's okay to break out, you know, ask a fanboy's question or whatever.

But so for me, I kind of, I was like, you know what, I'm going to do this book someday. So I want to ask some questions about that time period. So one of the Two experiences that really stood out I covered the last X games in Austin This was probably I mean years ago this was

But I think I was I saw the Chronicle at the time I think I was still working there but no I wasn't I think I still have my music blog for them And X games was being headlined by Blink And I mean if everyone knows X games It goes hand is basically those action sports And punk rock movies kind of got hand to hand

and yeah so blink was headlining it so for me this was like perfect to cover it I was able to get coverage because I covered x-games before for the Chronicle for my blog on them or for their website just for crawl.com I covered it when Connie west headlined one year so yeah so blink was headlining it and I basically found out like the day before that I got approved to interview them at the show and I've interviewed blink before I've interviewed Tom in person Tom and Mark over the phone and Travis were with the phone, but never Mark, Matt, and Travis at the same time. So that was pretty cool. And I think that day was just myself and Disney were the only people who really interviewed

them. So that was really rad that I got to sit on the couch with them and interview them. And one of the quotes I got from Mark, a couple questions I asked was kind of about growing up in that scene. And I think it was a really good quote about that's when all those bands kind of coalesce and all them found their footing was during that time and how they had great memories from that time period. So that was a really cool to pull excerpts from that interview to put in the book. And then also there's a part in the back of the book where I got to shadow a friend of mine,

who's the descendant's tour manager. And I got to interview all the descendants basically about, you know, not just about pop punk. I interview Milo. And he said he has great quotes in the book about the evolution of pop punk and punk rock in general. And he, you know, he's one of those older bands. and he never saw it as, you know, who are these newer bands? You know, he always saw that, he always thought that descendants were the evolution of

Buss Cox and Ramones and Green Day and Blink were the evolution of the descendants. So I thought that was a really cool quote to have in there as well as to have Milo Ockerman, who's a legend in punk rock to basically give the approval of the evolution of the genre. But just that experience, kind of shadowing, hanging out with the descendants for a day, I was really cool because I met their tour manager, Jeff, when I interviewed Milo of the descendants at a festival outside of Austin. And when I showed up for the interview, you know, usually communicate through the tour manager. And I noticed the tour manager cell phone was at Uson area code.

And I'm like, hey, are you from Uson? And he was. And I'm like, long story short, we end up going to the same high school together, different years, growing up in the same part of town. And we just became friends. So to this day, he's a good friend of mine. But I remember saying, hey, you think it would be cool if I, like, a dude did like a day in the life? he's like yeah absolutely so i did like a day in the life um for the chronicle and i included that in the book

so that was a really cool thing to see what like a tour manager's day in the life is so that was a really fun thing to include as well that's so cool yeah and i think tour managers are highly uh underrated and underappreciated it is a thankless job it's like the same on broadway we have stage managers and um people don't really know what these people do but they are literally the god of a Broadway play. So when you go to see the show, you think like it all just happens and, boom, show over. But you got this one person, maybe two, and they are literally calling every single light cue that you see, which can be in the thousands for a production, every sound cue, every entrance of an actor. They're on headsets making sure that actor is in the costume they need

to run out on stage and do this. And meanwhile, they're doing a thousand other things as well. So someone like a tour man, I can't even imagine what a day in the life would look like. And I'm sure it changes on a day-to-day basis, too, especially in the pop punk or punk scene. Like, I'm sure he was dealing with some crazy stuff for sure. Well, yeah, because he went from, you know, he used to have a tonedged Phoenix TX.

So you have a bunch of young kids who are, you know, touring with MXPX and Blink all around the world. And now descendants who are all obviously older. So it's a different type of babysitting. It's like he has to wake them up and get them calm. rather as opposed to like, you know, if it's a younger band, hey, don't drink too much. You know, it's definitely a different thing. But it's just really cool to see all different hats that tour manager wears.

And, you know, like you said, like a stage manager, there's so much responsibility when you go to a concert or a play or so much that goes on behind the scenes that a lot of people don't realize. It's not just funny games. It's like it's legit work. Yeah. Yeah. So much goes into every concert. Again, it's not the band just showing up plugging in their guitar to the amp and playing. Like, yeah, it's interesting.

Well, I got two last questions for you, Mike, if you have time. Cool, cool. The first one is we kind of talked about this celebrity-wise or television-wise, but the idea, and you cover this, this is kind of the reason for punk-rocking UFOs. You have a niche community that is punk. You have a niche community that is the UFO community. And moving to the mainstream, which is what pop punk eventually became. and now we're feeling that in the UFO world. We are now going mainstream now more than ever. And we talked about getting drowned out by celebrities

when it comes to television and stuff. But overall, when it comes to like the information getting out to the public, like 60 Minutes, the New Yorker, all these incredible things that have come out recently, what do you make of UFOs finally? And we've said this in the past. UFOs are going mainstream. But now we can actually like,

visualize it and live in it. What do you think about UFOs going mainstream? Is this good? Is this bad? Should we be worried? Or, yeah, what are your thoughts on that? It's funny. I've said this,

I've kind of been on your show so many times. I think I said this every time that we are living in the golden age of UFOs. And it's just crazy to me that, you know, like the 60 minutes piece where there was like something new in there, you know, the new person came forward. But just having that, not rehash,

but just having that sort of retold on that platform. is huge. Absolutely huge. It's a six-minute thing. And then the New Yorker piece, once again, nothing new in there, ground-breaking, but God, it covers everything. I was on, what's his face the show, recently. What was it? A few weeks ago, I was on Sean Ratch,

Witness Citizen Show. And one of the questions he asked me was, if anyone is new to UFOs, which book would you direct them to? I said, I would just direct him for the New Yorker article first, because it is like a book. It really does catch you up to speed with most of the mainstream UFO cases, you know,

the past 100 years or so. So yeah, I think that's just huge and it's a good thing. And there's a lot of older researchers I see every day just kind of crap on everything. And it's just like, you know, it's not even worth it arguing with them because it's like they're really looking like they're being left behind and they're kind of sour about it. And it's like, how can you not look at everything that's going? Like, do you want this to happen or not, you know?

And, you know, like I said, I don't want to name names, but like I see it every day. And it just kind of cringe addicts. It's just like, dude, what do you want at this point? Like, nothing is good enough. Like, do you want this to happen? So, yeah, I think UFO is going to mention me great. I mean, I think it helps us for sure.

You know, UFO research helps our book sales, hopefully. Yeah, that's a good point. My downloads and my Twitter followers have definitely gone up since all this stuff's happened. So we have to thank the Alex Dietrich for that, the Navy pilot. Yeah, but just in general, I mean, I think, it's, you know, ultimately, when everyone, after what, is there some quote? I think when everyone, when everyone's successful,

everyone eats or something, something kind of like that. I think it kind of definitely will trickle down, you know, to, you know, just if Washington Post links to one of our websites, you know, Danny Sulla's blog has been linked in like daily, daily mail link to one of the stories. So, I mean, that's big, you know, it's big for smaller, you know, sites and stuff and non-mainstream sites to have that. So I think, you know, that brings more eyes to us and more.

rise to the phenomenon in general. I think that's great. I think it's great because that people know, hey, I know this person's a new UFOs. Talk to him. And then we start getting sources come to us now and stuff. So I think it's only beneficial in the long run. You're right. And also some of these mainstream outlets are coming to us for information. You know, something like Gotti Schwartz over at NBC or Stephen Green Street at New York Post. Like these are guys who are like not only coming to us to us to. find out what's going on in the UFO world, but like, like, actually helping us and linking to things and being like, go check out this person's work. So I think that's pretty cool to you,

when these mainstream outlets do that. And they don't have to do that. Like you said, a lot of not even familiar with us, they're just doing basically their story based upon the sources they have. And then maybe they'll look up a skeptic interview and, you know, they'll find Nick West or whoever and so forth. But, you know, or some of them are just digging more to say, hey, who else can I, who else has a good perspective? And they may look up, you know, they may look up, you know, they may look up, you know what I mean? So, like, I think some of them are really doing their dating because they are, you know,

they are seeing this, you know, kind of beyond just being a movement, being a legit story. Yeah. Well, all right. Adding one more question, Mike. I'm sorry, brother. You said Mick West. This dude was just on CNN, debunking some of the current UFO stuff. What do you make of the guy?

I know this is a huge. He did topic. He might even be watching or listening to this. So keep that in mind with your answer. No, I'm just kidding. Be honest. Be honest. What do you think of people like McWest who are,

it seems like they're out to kind of spoil all of our fun, when in reality they might be doing us a good service at times as well. So yeah, what do you make of people like Mick West? Well, first I have to give him mad props working on Tony Hawk Pro Skater. Hell yeah. I did not know he did that until I read the New York article. I was like, oh, man, like mad respect because that video game was. the soundtrack to that video game was a gateway drug for a lot of kids

yeah absolutely punk and all that stuff so big ups in the class for doing the Tony dog game he's also one of the greatest video games ever um but yeah i mean you make a good point you know skepticism is needed and we may circle back eventually and say wow that was kind of needed but some of that's just exhausting where it's just like and and you know good on him that he gets these these mainstream people reaching out to him as a skeptic because some of the some of the arguments in my opinion are just kind of, they just kind of roll my eyes at, you know, the whole Seagull thing and just, you know, but whatever.

I'll be phrases. I think there's worse people, I mean, worst arguments and worse people to interview for the McWest in terms of skeptics. I think, you know, it's really, no one really attacks him that much, even though some of the things he's saying we kind of roll our eyes at, because I think he does have some credibility from his past. He's very polite, too. which I think has a lot.

He has that going for him too. He's not like, you're an idiot. This is what happened. He's very meticulous. And yeah, I agree. While I don't agree with all of his assessments or analysis of things, we need these people. We definitely need skeptics in our field.

Debunkers is another story when they're not willing to look at the facts and the data, which I don't think Mick has done on some of the stuff he's covered. he's not one to listen or trust pilots or witnesses of these events which is frustrating but understandable too like witness testimony is witness testimony you can't prove it

or anything like that but yeah I think it's good to he keeps us on our toes which I think is important you know we're not just you know we believe TikTok was alien like no let's let's look at all the other answers first so yeah

You know, like you said, it's hard to stop. It's hard to jump down someone's throw when they're polite about it. I could scoff at his opinions, but I'm not going to attack him, you know, because like you said, he was polite. I think there's worse people that has this intellectual arrogance, like Neil degrassi Tyson. It's just like, dude, like get on the train and move on. It's like you're almost hurting your credibility at this point by just not paying attention to the facts at what's there. That is such a good point. Yeah, I feel the same way about people like Neil as well.

It's like, you haven't even looked at any of this, dude. You're just saying what you say for every UFO. All right. Last question for you, Mike. In terms of where pop punk and emo lays today, I know we have the bands of the past that we can always have that nostalgia with. But you do have a guide and whatnot in the book as well of what people should check out and listen to. So who should we be looking out for in 2021 when it comes to kind of the pop punk movement or emo or alt rock? Yeah, any bands you really want to turn us towards in terms of that?

That's tough because I'm generally, my music taste is old man yells at clouds. And my friends kind of hear that too. But no, I mean, there's a lot of really good rad bands that are kind of throwbacks to that error. Some of the bands mention the book. Front bottoms are really good. Sincere engineer, Hot Mulligan, Tusha Mori, which is this really amazing hardcore band that makes hardcore music sound beautiful. if that makes any sense.

So there's a lot of big bands that have been kind of around for years that aren't necessarily brand new, but are kind of are the standard bearers of that genre. Like if the Warpter would still exist now, they would be like the Newfound Glories and the Yellow Cards and the Rancers of Old. They would be kind of in that position now if the Warpter are still existing.

So yeah, a lot of those types of bands, I think, are doing a really good job. And then there's, you know, there's new bands I hear every day. There's a band called Talk Show host out of Canada really good. And then, who else? I was going to name one specifically, but I'm drawing blanks.

But like, Willow Smith just did a pop punk song. Like, it's crazy. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Nice, man. Well, again, things to look forward to and to grow to love, just like we did of the bands of the past.

So I love music. It's a constant evolution, just like everything else in the art world. And the same goes for UFOs, an evolution in that as well. So a real last question, Mike, before we go, where can we find the book and where can we find everything else you're up to, brother? Everything. Go to punk rock and your foes.com. The book's Stranger than Fiction.

PunkRogged, Gaveauvin'O Stranger than Fiction, as well as my new book, A Guide to the Emo Pop Punk Rise. You get on Amazon, Barnes & Noble as well. So, yeah, the book's currently up for pre-order. It will be out June 10th officially. So if you pre-order it, you should be getting it now. But pre-order now. the pre-order numbers are looking great, and that's encouraging.

So thank you for everyone to pre-ordered it. Thank you, everyone who listened to me on previous episodes and who bought Stranger Than Fiction, as well, who supported Ryan's book somewhere in the skies. Ryan and I are label mates, both under Beyond the Freight publishing, and which they're doing a great job. I always kind of want to give them props, like just Shannon is just always learning and evolving how to do new things to promote her artists and artists.

I'm still thinking music, her writers. And hey, we're artists as well. You know, just to start doing, you know, like the other day, I sent some audio clips over to her and she made these really cool promotional videos. And my book's a year old at this point. They're still doing, like, cool little things like that to promote it. I think that's really cool. You know, it makes it, you know, makes us all part of the same, you know, goal. Absolutely, man.

My special thanks goes out to both of our people over there at Beyond the Frey. G. G. Michael and Shannon, they're incredible. And you're right. They really care about what they're doing. So I know neither of us are done working with Beyond the Frey. There's so much still to come. And, brother, it's always so good to catch up with you. It's been a long time coming. I want to congratulate you once again, I'm becoming a father. Please give your wife my best as well. And as always, thank you for joining me on Summer in the skies. Thank you again, Ryan once again. It's always been a pleasure. And I will end this with every conversation we always have. I'm still waiting for some time. for you to do the UFO Broadway play. It's God happy. I'm telling you, no one is better suited to do it than you.

And I want it, even if it's just like at the crucible, like it's just a book that's written in the play, do it, please. It's coming, guys. Broadway is reopening in September. Be on the lookout for Rendell Shum the musical coming soon. Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh, no.

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