Somewhere in the Skies - The Mystery at Magic Mesa: Solved | Featuring Carl the Crusher

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

On episode 273 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan and Chrissy are joined by researcher and Youtube star, Carl Vibe, to discuss the fascinating investigation he's led at a mysterious mesa in the Uintah Basin that glows in geometric shapes, flowing patterns, and even appears to portray a form of communication. Carl will run us through all the video, photographic, and testimonial evidence he's collected, and may even have some answers for us to what is actually going on at the "Magic Mesa" in some stunning developments in the investigation. Carl also shares his UFO sighting at Area 51 and what comes next in his investigations and beyond. Subscribe to Carl's Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/CarlVibe Follow Carl on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Carl_Vibe Find all Chrissy Newton's links at: https://lnk.bio/G2vh Ryan is now on Cameo! Book your video today at: https://bit.ly/3kwz3DO Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan’s book in paperback, ebook, or audiobook: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at: https://bit.ly/3rJpbd7 Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Copyright © 2022 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hey, what's up guys, Ryan Sprague here. And I'm just hopping in because I wanted to let you know that in this week's interview with Carl Andreson all about the mystery at the Magic Mesa, we do refer to a lot of videos that we showed in the video version of this conversation. So if you'd like a little bit more context and to literally see what we're talking about in some sections of this interview, I'd highly suggest heading on over to our YouTube channel and checking out this episode there. Or if you just want to listen to it right here in the podcast, feed, that's totally fine too. But I thought I'd offer up the other suggestion as well. Either way, I hope you enjoy this fascinating conversation that we had with Carl Andreessen in the mystery at the magic mesa. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Hey guys, Ryan Sprague here from Somewhere in the skies. And first of all, I have to thank my co-host and our guest today. I literally just ran from Manhattan and to make it home here to Queens in time to do this. And the New York Subways are the worst. So we didn't have a lot of time to preamble and warm up with this,

but both of these people are pros. So this is going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be super casual. And this is a really interesting conversation we're going to be having. This isn't just about UFOs. We're going to dive deep into a lot of different phenomena tonight at a very, I wouldn't say popular. We know about YouTube.

for many reasons, one of them being Skin Walker Ranch. But tonight is not just about Skin Walker Ranch. We're going to be talking about all over Utah, specifically in the basin and a couple of the mesas. But there has been a lot of chatter and talk lately about the research being done by our guests today. You may know him from his YouTube channel, Carl the Crusher. He's got a podcast, Carl, Vibe. Carl, Andreessen's going to be joining us tonight to talk all about the magic mesa,

this really mysterious mesa in Utah that he has been investigating for some really strange phenomena that has been occurring there? And has he possibly found answers to it? We're going to talk about that tonight as well. And it's possible connections to other places like Skinwalker Ranch. So before we bring Carl in, I'm going to bring in our co-hosts for tonight. She is back finally. My co-pilot, we have Chrissy Newton. What's up, Chrissy? Not much. Not much. Good to see you, Ryan. I know it's been a while. You've been all over the place. I know you and Carl were in Utah recently, and you've just been bouncing all over. I know you're out of Canada right now. We won't disclose where you are. But yeah, how's everything been going? And how are you keeping up with all the latest UFO news? Oh my gosh. There's so much UFO news. But I like when there's a lot of UFO news. It keeps us busy. It's been good. I'm like, Carl, yeah, I got to spend like a lot of time with Carl and I got to know him really, really, really.

well at the convention and just talking about the work that he's doing. So I'm excited that we get to actually chat with him tonight. So it's good. It's good to be back too. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to have you back. And again, I was able to watch this presentation that Carl gave at a disclosure event recently that you were also at. And it blew a lot of people away. Again, this is new, new stuff out there that no one's ever really looked at or investigated. and I was highly, highly impressed with the research that Carl did. This wasn't about, you know, being all mysterious and KG and shadowy. He wanted to find answers to something going on in a Mesa there in Utah, and he possibly did.

And we're going to talk all about it tonight. We're going to take a look at some of the content about the Mesa that he's brought forward. So what do you say? Should we bring him in? That sounds good. Yeah, let's do it. Let's get into it. Yeah.

Finally, Carl, welcome to Somewhere in the Sky. Hey, what's up, guys? God, I don't even know where to begin. So let's go, let's start at the beginning, I guess. It's always the best way to do this. For any of our viewers here at Somewhere in the Skies or listeners who are not familiar with you and your work, yeah, could you tell Chrissy and I a little about what got you into all this strange stuff, not just in Utah, but, you know, UFOs, the paranormal.

And in general, what got you into all this? What's your Peter Parker story? Yeah, that's a good question. It starts for me a lot growing up, really. I grew up with a really interesting dad who retired from the military and then just kind of had a very normal, simple life. But we found out later after he passed away that he had this thing called cosmic clearance, which is like a NATO clearance, and he was over right on the border of West and East Germany, right at the beginning of the Cold War era and all that stuff at the end of World War II.

He was always very interesting and way into movies about UFOs and science fiction stuff and always talking about it, asking interesting philosophical questions about extraterrestrials and things like that. So I always grew up with an open mind, but I also grew up with a lot of experiences. like I had a few sleep paralysis experiences and like out-of-body type experiences where I saw what I would consider things in my bedroom and outside my window and stuff like that. So I grew up with some interesting questions that I had, you know,

so that as I got older, I guess, you know, I had one experience of camping probably, I think it was eight years ago now, eight, nine years ago, where I was just on a film project with a crew and had kind of a paranormal encounter up in the woods that was very fascinating where we saw this big shadow figure move through the trees and then an orb of light fly overhead. And that kind of freaked me out

and I got kind of out of it for a while because I didn't even want to go camping or anything for like a year after that. But, you know, in the last like year or so, I went through a divorce, and went on my own. And so instead of doing a bunch of family content on my YouTube channel, like I had been doing, I was like, I want to go solo and do my own thing.

So I got really into this idea that there's all these ancient locations and petroglyphs around where I live, from the Grand Canyon all the way over to Area 51 to Lovelock Cave, where there's myths about giants and stuff buried in there, and all the way up to Skinwalker Ranch in the Uinta Basin. And I realized I was surrounded with this whole area that was full of stuff. And so I thought, why don't I go hiking and check it out? And I can do this for a living on my YouTube channel. And I think I kind of bit off more than I realized because now it's sort of consumed my life.

And I have a whole new group of friends and do a lot of research. And I've had a whole new set of kind of life-altering experiences, including the Mesa and trying to figure that out has been a real challenge. Yeah, I know. And I know everyone wants to get right to the Mesa. I do too. But I think it'd be cool if we actually started with these petroglyphs and stuff that you found. Now, like you mentioned, I know a lot of places have these sorts of things. I was in Arizona not too long ago where I was able to go up into one of the mountain ranges in Phoenix with a Zuni tribelder and see some of these petroglys. And they blew me away, man. And a lot of what you've seen is so. similar to a lot of the things I have seen. So you truly have to wonder, you know, are these different tribes, cultures seeing the same things and etching these same things into these mesas or these rocks or these mountains? You truly do have to wonder.

I do have, I think we can play this while we're still talking, some of the footage that you got of some of these petroglyphs. And yeah, if you want, you can walk us through what we're looking at here, maybe. Great. Yeah, so these are right behind my house. These ones are looking at right now. Now, out of all the petroglyphs that I see, these ones behind my house are probably the ones that are the most normal,

meaning like depictions of normal daily life. Here, pause it right here, Ryan, real quick. Yeah. This is actually the mesa, so I'm pointing at the mesa itself. So these are right near it. Okay, okay. Those are horned figures across the valley up on the cliff side. on the opposite side.

Yeah. Wow, that's pretty cool. And there's a bunch of that that get more elaborate up the cliff side. Yeah, let's see what else I have here. I didn't cut too much. Oh, this is one of the artifacts you found too, right? Yeah, I honestly wonder, it's hard to tell on the camera, but it looks like a piece of Moldivite.

There's lots of flint napping everywhere, and aeronat knapping. Could be there. that, but it looks like a little piece of Moldivite almost only that it's not green. It's like a white, creamy white color. Interesting. Moldivite is like volcanic or like a glass that comes off of a meteorite impact. Oh, wow.

Okay. And there's been noted. Yeah, there has been noted in the Utah Basin and he went to basin that there was a meteorite that hit. I don't know when, if Carl, if you know the date on that, but they talk about that with Blind Frog Ranch allegedly as well. Yeah, there's a lot of, I'm not sure on the date range either, how long ago it could have been, or if it had to do with like Bonneville Lake being full and then suddenly draining and having to do with an impact or something up there. But yeah, Moldivite glass, somebody that knows more could tell me if they look at the picture closer.

But what it is is it's like sand that gets hit really close to the impact of the meteorite. and then it gets thrown up into the clouds and then turns into glass as it cools off and then falls back down almost like glitter onto the ground. And then like millions of years later you go pick it up in little pieces and stuff. And there's a lot of like folklore around it being like bad luck to take it unless somebody like gives it to you as a gift and stuff. Right. Yeah, that reminds me so much of like you're not supposed to take anything from the islands of Hawaii. too. Like you take volcanic rock and Pele, the goddess is going to

definitely follow you home and you don't want to do that. So yeah, that is interesting. The folklore and the tales that are told of do not disturb the area. And I know that was kind of a big challenge for you and why we're not going to say specifically where this mesa is

because of the land it's on and the respect that you've paid to that and the owners of the, where the mesa is. So yeah, maybe tell us a little about that if you don't mind. You don't have to give us, obviously, the specific location of where your research is being done. But this is in Utah, correct? Yeah, it's in southern Utah, kind of near Nevada.

I live just right on the border of Arizona and southern Utah, kind of two hours from Area 51 and two hours from the Grand Canyon, kind of right in that sweet spot surrounded by a bunch of cool stuff. And yeah, so I get to go over there all the time. There's a lot of cool stuff in the whole area from, where I live all the way to where the maces at and beyond. There's a lot of you could drive and I could take you from spot to spot to spot. And like it's fascinating what you find. But, you know, kind of like why I want to protect the areas because there is tons and tons of ancient artifacts and petroglyphs, pottery, arrowheads all over the ground. And so I mostly want to protect it for that.

And, you know, I wouldn't want a lot of people going and just picking it up as souvenirs all over the place. But also, I'm still researching it because although I have kind of, with the help of everybody on Patreon supporting so that I could afford to go do the research, but also having being able to have people come and help me and bring better equipment, help me answer a lot of questions there, that the family that's been experiencing phenomena there has been wondering about for like over a decade. You know. Okay. So there's been a family that's been seeing these lights on the hillside at this mesa appearing in different geometric shapes and almost interacting with them and acting very strange and paranormal. And this has been going on for like over 10 years and they couldn't figure it out using spotlights and headlights, hiking up on the mesa, hiking around, looking for cars and headlights. Nobody could figure any solution to it at all or debunk it.

And so they were, you know, hearing stuff this new show like Skinwalker Ranch comes on. And there's right in the intro of the TV show, they show the Mesa light up with this fluorescent light, you know. Yeah, yeah. And so the family, they saw my work on YouTube doing research up in the area. They saw that I was actually having experiences near the petroglyphs. And so they contacted me and asked me to help them figure out what was going on and start looking into it. And so that's what we did. And in the beginning, it was like, it's mind-blowing.

And not only the lights on the mesa, but the amplified coincidence events that happened and that occur. So, like, the whole valley seems to be almost like interactive and responsive. And this idea of, like, protecting the valley is, there's another reason for that. It's because there is stories and evidence of people coming in, disturbing it, and trying to do kind of, like, modern touristy things in the valley associated with the petroglyphs. And the people that have poured concrete and disturbed the land and done stuff, they like died of heart attacks and weird stuff.

And even people that I have taken to those spots where those areas have been disturbed, I've had people get very sick and get bloody noses and get sick and want to leave and I have to take them out of there and weird stuff happens. And so it's not just the lights on the hill. It's the whole valley and the energy there is very strange. Yeah, sounds a lot like Skinwalker Ranch. We hear these stories about radiation poisoning and people just all of a sudden dropping. And we're seeing it play out on their television show as well.

That is very fascinating to me that there seems to be a correlation with a lot of these places in Utah in the same physiological effects or sometimes even emotional effects on people. You know, I remember speaking to a Native American in Utah who just walked into like four feet from where he was before, and he just started bawling his eyes out. And he couldn't explain why. And we do hear that in a lot of these different phenomenological things as well. So, yeah, very, very interesting. Yeah, all of you into Basin is just, there's a lot of paranormal activity. It's massive. It's not just a Skinwalker ranch and Blind Frog Ranch.

You know, when I, Micah Hanks and I were there for about 10 days, and we were researching and talking to locals and their experiences. And for them, it's, you know, it's everywhere. The phenomenon's just not in within Skinwalker. So I think it's important for people to know that the Uintabasin is just, it's really much of all different things. There's also a lot of health concerns in the Uintahasin as well. Like there's people getting migraines, you know, kids getting migraines,

mass amounts of tumors. There's lots of things happening. And that also could be from, you know, the nuclear fallout from the 1950s when it came over from Nevada and came, went towards the Uint to Basin. So that could radiation while they're still selling from nuclear testing then. So it's, it's really wild. And the Mesa, I know, like they always say in Skinwalker that they, that Dr. Travis Taylor was trying to figure that out. So I'm really excited to hear what you have to say, Carl. And if you've talked to Dr. Travis Taylor about your findings, because he's been trying to find it for.

so long as he's been trying to research this for so long as well, because what you saw is exactly what he has seen in the show as well, has shown us in the show. Why don't we, should we show it? Do you guys might? Yeah, yeah, for any of our viewers watching this on YouTube, we're going to show some of the footage of the phenomenon on the mesa, which again, first time I saw this, it was just stunning. I got chills.

And clearly so did Carl. You can hear it in his voice. So let's go ahead and we'll pull. that up here for you guys to watch. It's like there's a fire in there or something. It's going up. Is it going up? Yep.

Oh, yeah. That's great. Your laser was perfectly on it. That is crazy. Wow, it's like it's spreading, right? Yeah. To the right? Like, it looks like it's on fire on the right side.

It looks like. Look at that square. Look at it. Holy cow. It's coming down the mesa. Look at it. and the whole maces lit up you see it on camera yeah yeah that is crazy

whole things lit up it's like an iridescent glow and gone oh there were shadows going across it what yeah dang okay so it is beautiful though it really is beautiful it is yeah I wish I saw that when I was in Utah to be honest I miss that apparently it's This thing is crazy. Are we at the edge?

Yeah, it's totally repeatable. And it was happening on a continual basis. And that was eventually part of what became the giveaway for me. It was the repeatability of it. And the dependability of it became something that was like, okay, I can narrow in on this, you know. And then it was like, Scooby-Doo time. You know what I mean?

I guess when he took off the mask, it was it? Was it? We'll get there to be continued. Yeah. Who were you with when this went down, Carl? Would you mind maybe filling us in on who your investigative team was? And what was going through your heads when you guys first saw this? I mean, did you have any theories immediately as you were watching it? Or was it more like, holy shit, this is happening? Yeah. And it was a mix of both. So in the beginning, I went to go alone. And then I thought, okay, this is a bad idea. I don't. to go like by myself because the family you know has been experiencing it there on the mesa and they told me stories about you know shadow figures they saw like a herd of like ghost buffalo run past them basically like uh and seen shapes move around you know on the hillside UFOs in the sky all kinds of stuff and so i go to this gas station nearby and decided to message a buddy who also does

similar research, but he doesn't ever want to reveal his identity. He does a lot of other work on the side that he has to keep private. So I messaged him, and he just happened to be in the parking lot at the same gas station where I was at. And he was like, no way, I'm like outside in the parking lot. So I went out and I was like, dude, just come with me. So he actually went with me that first night. And then when I went there, the maintenance guy who was there that showed up to open the gate. He was like, so what are you guys doing? And so I just told him, I was like, we're here doing paranormal investigating, looking for UFOs. There's all these strange things. And he's like, he's like, well, geez, I work here like all the time. He's like, do you guys care

if I stay and hang out? And so I was like, sure. And so he was the other guy. And he was there and just had his little dog with him. So the first night, it was the three of us. And then after that, I went back by myself probably four or five times alone. And then I went back with Charlie from Blind Frog Ranch and spent like two days there. And then I've gone back alone again. I went back with my brother. And then with another person who came with military grade equipment. And then I can't say who he is.

But the two of us ended up solving a lot of it because of his equipment revealing. a lot. Interesting. Yes. Interesting. Christy, do you have any follow-ups to the Mesa phenomenon before we kind of look at some of the stuff Carl was able to debunk some of the explanations people kind of threw out, having not knowing anything about, you know, what he was doing? Yeah, any follow-ups to that? After you kind of feel like you solved the mystery, did you feel that your thoughts before were just not as correct as they were maybe now?

because I'm so curious to what mystery is. Yeah, see, there's a part of it. You know, you're just like, oh, man, and then did it make you think about other phenomenon too in that area? Because there's obviously a lot going on. And, you know, some of it could be true. Some of it could not be. A lot of it could be folklore.

There's so much folklore. If you've read Skimwockers at the Pentagon or you've read that, well, of course, I should say the two books. If you read both, you'll know that there's a lot of conversations about Sasquatch being there coming out of portals in Skinwalker area. Like there's a lot of different. tails and seeing if they're true or not.

So like what were your thoughts when you were like, oh, maybe I figured this out and then to kind of like where you were in your research and where you are now. That's part of it. That's super fascinating to me. Like you know, Chrissy, when we were up there, like when you're up in the basin, there's another part of, I don't know if you call it the phenomenon, but there's a psychological aspect to it as well where Chris Bartell and I over many conversations and stuff talking about this. Chris, he was a security guy at Skinwalker Ranch during the whole

Bigelow era. And he, him and I, we started breaking a lot of the different levels of the phenomena down and what's real and what's not. And we started, we came up with this term we call Skinwalker fever, where there's a level of people, you know, when you go to conventions or when you go around certain areas where there's almost like a fever or a mindset, a cyclone, mindset that can get a grip on a group of people that you can take part of. It's almost like a belief system where every single dust particles like an orb and every twig snapping in the dark is a werewolf all of a sudden, you know, and your sense has become really heightened and there becomes like a feedback loop of people around you who are kind of

the same bias toward the phenomena being real in a certain way. And it will affect your results if you're trying to be credible. So you can get sucked into the hype or sucked into your emotions or sucked into a theory. And then that can lead down conclusions that are really difficult for your ego to swallow when you finally reach them. You know, when they conflict with what you've been telling everybody or what you've been running around being like, I don't know what this is, or especially if, you know, people have been financially supporting you. Like I have a whole Patreon page where people were helping me solve. the Mesa and do research there.

So when I solve it, part of it in two months, that's like part of the good news. It shouldn't be part of the bad news. Right. We're figuring it out. So, but there is that mindset that can come over people. And so being aware of that is fascinating. But also, there's a part of it where I'm very interested in the meditation, the remote viewing and manifestation side of, the concept of the nature of reality that we don't understand that might be disrupted or different

in some of these areas where what we perceive as like, you know, people losing their grip and everything seems a certain way is a part of the phenomenon and there is an interplay there that has to do with, that has a side effect on the subconscious mind and which is it, the chicken or the egg, you know, and so I'm really interested in all aspects of that and I'm willing to explore all of them. I'm not, I'm not afraid of it. So it's, it's really interesting to me. The meditation thing is interesting because when they meditated on Skinwalker, and again, I think this is all of the Uinta Basin. It's, I wouldn't just say it's just one area that this happens in, but when they disturb the phenomenon when somebody meditated, if you can read

that in the first book, Colin Colahar speaks about that. He asked somebody to, somebody asked to come on to the ranch and to meditate. And when they did, like the phenomenon just started to happen even more. And it almost in a way of like, you know, less of the words attacked the person that was meditating. So I'm curious to see when you do meditation within the,

you went to basin in general, what reacts to it. Because again, I don't think it's just geography is just based in one section for the phenomenon. I think it's the whole, it's the whole area. You know, it doesn't have like these parameters that has to sit in, right?

So I'd be curious. I'd like to keep us up to date with that, please. Yeah. Yeah, that's something ongoing that I do. And it's kind of the core of what led me along the path of the Mesa and around, up around Skinwalker Ranch and all of that is this idea of like these petroglyph areas and maybe even the symbols of the petroglyphs or the geology itself has something to do with this resonant frequency or vibrational harmony that's very similar to what's used in a lot of these.

secret programs like binural audio tunes and hemisink stuff that affects your consciousness for meditation, remote viewing, or telepathy. And I almost wondered if going into some of these canyons or ancient valleys where they were doing these rituals or ceremonies at these petroglyph sites was part of an ancient way of tapping into the subconscious potential of humanity and what they were doing and maybe contacting other entities or other dimensions. of reality or other tribes over long distances, who knows, having all kinds of altered consciousness experiences that you can have and then carving them on the rocks. But all of that's really fascinating to me. So that's kind of what I've been doing is going to these spots and meditating

at these locations and looking for clues and trying to see where they point, but also taking up like a tri-filled meter and radiation detector and trying to see if I can actually gather evidence with a and capture something on night vision and do paranormal stuff as well. So it's just been kind of a cool opportunity to look at all of it and then also look up in the sky and see if there's anything flying around associated with it because it seems like it's all connected or there's something about the government's secret programs that that wants us to think it's all connected and I don't know which is which. Which up from down left from I know man. Well um you know when you first,

uh, release the first video, obviously everyone looked at it and they were amazed. And then some people immediately went at you with, oh, it's like it's headlights clearly. Like we're not idiots here, Carl.

We know that's headlights. So what do you do? You go back and you literally prove that it's not. And I'd love to show a little bit of that here, if you don't mind of your device, the, the headlights. Mesa and glowing on it.

itself. That's my truck headlights through the night vision. Right there. Okay, so that's what that looks like. Let me turn these back off again. Yeah, this is going to be really interesting. In a moment, too. Okay.

Because here I'm about, I'd say, 300 yards away from the mesa. Okay. Oh. There it is. Look, see? There's the phenomenon. Glowing square. totally different. Look, I got the proof

right there. It's not headlights. I just shine the truck headlights right on it and it doesn't do that. So weird, right? What in the world? Wow. Wow. Look. I can see that with my own eyes. Yeah, I can see it.

Carl, I'm going to pause it right here. What color was the actual phenomenon? Because here we're seeing, you know, one color. It's more like a white color. So people are probably wondering what camera it is. It's this Cyanics Aurora Black

Night Vision It's a 720P Night Vision camera I just got it off of Amazon That's the one It's a really good

Night Vision camera But it Ultimately doesn't have Like the crispest Resolution That's just the 720P Frames

But it's more More of like a white translucent color With like a holographic glowing effect to it. It looks more like the northern lights when you see it, like it's raised and glowing above the mesa compared to like headlights up close like that. Right. That don't do anything, you know. Could you film it without the night vision? Were you able to film it just like with a handy cam

and be able to capture like that white instead of like the night vision? Would you be able to use just like your iPhone to capture that as well? I tried and tried. Yeah. I tried with my cell phone. I tried with other cameras, even with a black light and the cell phone multiple times. And one of the last night when I was really trying to do a lot of that, ended up being the night when we had the high-powered night vision there, the military-grade stuff, and ended up figuring it all out. Because then I was able to just put my phone right up to that and filmed through it straight up, and then that revealed a lot more details.

And then we were able to backtrack stuff that we had our, already checked like three or four times and we went back and rechecked it and then finally figured some of it out. Not all of it, but a good chunk of it. We'll get there, guys. We'll get there. I know everyone just wants to know, what the hell is it? Clearly. Let's show this one. You mentioned the black light. So this is you shining a black light on the mesa. It's going all the way. You can see the bugs and everything flying around. So this clearly wasn't just one of you or your friends like shining a black light on the mesa. the mesa itself.

No reflections. No fluorescent lights. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with this. There it is. Coming down to Mesa. It's crazy. Every time.

I know. I couldn't figure it out. It took me two months. So it is repeatable, guys. This is a few nights later. Oh my gosh. It really is beautiful. It is.

It is. It's gorgeous. And I mean, I don't, I almost don't care what it is to be completely honest. But, wow, wow. So I guess to go from there, you know, these were some of the things that you were able to explain that this was not a black light on the mesa. These were not, these were not lights from any vehicle. So what were some of those other theories, Carl? I know you mentioned, you know, you did some meditation. and try to tap into phenomena consciously or subconsciously even. But when you walked away after that first night of filming it and everything, were there any theories being bumped around between you and your investigation partners on what it could be, you know, maybe a prosaic explanation? Yeah. The main one initially is like you're right. Like everybody's like it's got to be headlights.

and that's the initial reaction. Your head's whipping around and you're looking around for headlights. And so, you know, we go up to the other side of the ravine, turn around, we watch all the vehicles, we watch for hours and stay up, and it does not seem correlated to headlights at all. We even watch with the night vision. It doesn't seem correlated. I bring multiple people up there, even with the airplanes and stuff flying over and satellites going over. But that was all like the main theories.

Then there was also like maybe it was some kind of, you know, satellite imagery and there was something about the night vision being able to pick up some kind of geological scanning that was going on. But that didn't add up or make any kind of sense because it was so specific to the mesa. It was like so targeted, you know. And here was the part that was the most difficult with all of it and still a mystery is the fact that the petroglyphs themselves. are so full of clues that seem to have spirals and characters that tell a story, and they have actual arrows pointing off of some of them that seem to lead somewhere. And ultimately, because of the family and the lights on the mesa, that was what it was believed to point to.

This is it. You know, this is where the phenomena is. This must be what they're looking at. Everything seems to point to that. most of all, there's these ceremonial medicine wheels down in the valley and even one up on top of the mesa itself. And the rituals that would be done around these ceremonial wheels specifically have to do with the North Star and the Big Dipper and the whole movement of the solar system in the universe and space time and opening portals into other dimensions of reality. and these ceremonial wheels are real, and there's one in the valley and one right on top of the mesa, and everything lines up for these lights to occur.

But we still had this open mind. It's got to be something like headlights. It could be one of the theories was that it could have to do with the geology. Maybe the crystals have an evaporative crystal geology that makes like a quartz or gypsum or something that under pressure could, give off a glowing light or some kind of a sparking effect. Maybe there's old power lines or something under the ground that's arcing through the mesa. Who knows, there could be something to do with meteors coming over and flashing off the rocks through the solar system, some kind of new Northern Lights phenomena. The theories and the oral traditions from the Native Americans around

say that there was an ancient shaman that came into the valley that stopped some kind of a disaster from occurring and then lived in the valley. And some of them say that he lives inside the mesa and other ones say that he died and was buried inside the mesa. So there was so much like evidence pointing to this mesa having something to do with it and then on top of it is these lights. And then not only that, when we go there and when I would take different groups, we would have experiences. So we go down in the valley. Now keep in mind something that we've figured out,

and this is true for Skinwalker Ranch and all up in the Uinta Basin too is there's this Native American theme to all of these supernatural experiences that occur. When people start talking about paranormal, everything that has happened to me has had this crux of the Native American backbone to it that's been undeniable,

even the meditation experiences that have kind of happened. But like we've been down by this medicine wheel and been there at night. And then we heard like what sounded like someone whistling, like you would call for a dog or something. And then we heard like a horse run right past us. And we all heard it, but nobody saw anything. It was like, you know, like a ghost horse running by. And there's these amplified events that happen where like right when my brother is like, you know, it's actually really peaceful down here. Like right as he's finishing the sentence, something like screams from the bushes behind us like really loud.

And then you hear something running around in the trees and it like freaks everybody out. And that kind of stuff just like happens like a ton down in there that is hard to explain. But we're trying to figure it all out. There's still like a lot of weird mysteries to it. And so some of it had to do with the Native American stuff. Like the lights having to do with maybe residual energy from the, the rituals that were occurring in ancient times. And maybe that's the same at Skinwalker Ranch. And I don't know. Maybe it could be a dimensional opening like a wrinkle in time where the

future in the past kind of enfolded into a pinched location in this valley is one of those spots. So that was one of the theories. It was all over the place. What could be going on? Well, as you were saying all that, I'm thinking about an experience I had. And I'm just going to go ahead and share it here. I could get in trouble, but I don't care at this point. It's been a year and a half since I did this investigation. When you mentioned the vortexes, you know, these things that you found on the rocks that were literally pointing towards the mesa, when I was traveling with the Zuni tribelder and we went to this area, this mesa as well, where we saw almost identical vortex petroglyphs. Where were they pointing to? It was literally

the mountain range where the Phoenix lights disappeared into. Oh, wow. And as you were telling me that, it just gave me chills because I'm like, okay, you have possibly these Native Americans in Utah saying that these vortexes are a certain thing that things come in and out of, that we communicate with either other tribes or different entities from elsewhere. And then I have a Zuni tribe elder in another state telling me the same thing that these UFOs are coming in and out. It just blows my mind. There has to be some sort of connection.

Like you said, what is it? How much do we make of those connections? Only time will tell. But I had to share that because it was strikingly similar to what you experienced. I think that's at the core of it, man, to me, that's, and how do I back that up or prove it? And that's why I try to take devices and everything in there, everything from, you know, Buddhist meditation. bowls that I'll carry in my backpack to try and test like the resonant harmony of a canyon. I'll even do like chanting or singing. I'll take portable speakers and play different frequencies and then different devices, like a trifield meter, radiation sensor, different, you know, paranormal ghost boxes

and stuff like that to try and look at all of it with an open mind to see what I get and then narrow in on it as people say, well, that doesn't work, that doesn't do that or whatever. then I just try to keep getting closer. But among all that, I'm also paying attention to those experience that I'm having. Like, if I come back from a place, do I have nightmares for like a week? Are the smoke alarms in my house all going off like crazy? And am I experiencing other stuff? Like, you know, up at Skinwalker Ranch, they have this thing called, whether it's ethical or not.

I don't know. A lot of people were used like human biosensors, you know, walking around whether they knew they were or not. like my buddy Chris Bartel, use like a human guinea pig to walk around out there to see if anything happened to him and then having brain scans done and stuff. And I'm not having any of that, but I do have effects where I'll come back from a canyon and I'll do like a meditation,

play a frequency in a slot canyon. And by the time I get back to my truck, I'm like super sick and throwing up. And I have to take like three days to recover. And it like can really affect you. So I wonder if they were. doing, you know, rituals or banging on drums or, you know, blown through antler whistles and things, bone whistles and creating frequencies that were the same as what they're doing in some of

these secret programs at a high level today. But they were just tapped into it in a different, from a different perspective and a different approach. Yeah. That we've forgotten, you know, along with a lot of other things. Yeah, I'm curious to see because in the NIDS, one of the NIDS reports, and I spoke to Dr. Cullen Cullagher about in path to the Skinwalker in the book, in the end of like one of the last chapters is called Revolutionary Science. And he speaks about exactly what you're talking about, Carl. Like his recommendation outside of doing all these different hypotheses about mental health, which could be like schizophrenia that's happening on there, hallucinations.

They're saying that even like wind currents can be traveling with like some form of like psychedelics that could be in it. You know, if you're burning bushes, that might turn into some form of psychedicts. So they looked at a port of my hypothesis. And then one of the last one was obviously like something that wasn't human as a hypothesis. And then what he suggested was that they would go on the ranch. And I don't know. We'd have to talk to Brendan about that if they've done what you've been doing in that space because that was what he said that they should be doing next is all the revolutionary science.

The challenge that we get into is that all of that would be considered pseudoscience. And scientists have a really hard time being able to. measure that and to figure out if that's something that is valid for them to be able to say that this is how the phenomenon is working to it or what's happening with it. But you should really document that and then share your findings with Brendan and even within Skinwalker around those areas. It doesn't again have to be in that one specific area outside of Vernal because that is what Dr. Column Collier and you should speak with him too because that's what he recommended in those areas and they might have been for sure doing it in the past. I saw those those like those spirals too at

McConkey ranch when I was there and they were all over the place. And the progression of them was unbelievable from like early, you know, a lot earlier of petroglyphs all the way up to something that looked like Aztec even though it probably wasn't Aztec, but it the it was a very consistent thrall. So I would yeah, with that said, I think you should talk to Dr. Colon Colorher because he, that's exactly what you're doing is what he recommended in the early night. these. Definitely. Yeah, I've been texting with Brandon Fugel back and forth quite a bit since going up there. I did get to go to Skinwalker Ranch and do some work with Chris Bartel and James Keenan, and we went with about half of the Skinwalker Ranch team to do a lot of, you went to Basin

research, expanded off the ranch and then ended up at the ranch. And Thomas Wunerson took me out to look at the petroglyphs and a couple of things there. Didn't have a ton of time. and all of that. But yeah, I'm really interested to see how it is all connected from that ancient past perspective to how we can pick up on that today. If it is something that we've lost, how do we do that? Is it through the meditation approach? Were they doing like peyote or some kind of psychedelics? And that's what we're seeing on the rocks. Is there a consciousness interfacing with reality and a manifestation aspect that you hear talked about? Because, you know, you start talking about that, like, can your mind really shape your reality and form your reality and change

it and are these things real? Could they actually be real? And, you know, quantum entanglement and superposition and things like that all starts to make it plausible, this idea that the double split experiment where if you look at something or if it's observed, the observer affects the outcome of reality. It collapses reality from a waveform into particle almost like it procedurally generates like a video game, you know. So it's very strange and still mysterious. I don't think we know as much as we think we know about the true nature of reality. And so some of these places, I think, give us a glimpse into that and we should be open-minded

to it. And that comes with looking into the Native American and the ancient perspective and how they were approaching it and trying to deal with it during their time. Because who knows, maybe a thousand years ago or further. The Earth was in a different place in reality or the fact that they weren't all hijacked by radio frequencies and 5G signals and satellite. They were more connected to the Earth frequencies in the universe and their consciousness was connected in a different way. We just don't know. So I just try to keep an open mind.

And what I do, I always have experiences. That's such a good point. You know, the more radio waves and signals we put out there, it could become a blockage of what should be there and the harmony that should be existing in an area. And you do have to wonder these small glimpses, as you said, like the Mesa and Skinwalker Ranch, is this the phenomenon or whatever it is screaming, like, stop. Like, you don't need to, of this 5G. You don't need to have a million different satellites going at once just so we can, like, say,

oh, I'm going to be home at 6 p.m. for dinner, you know, like, stop, just stop with all of this. You have to wonder, is it screaming to us? Like, we're still here. Don't forget us. And, yeah, ultimately, we're probably going to win. Not that it's, you know, a fight or a battle, but in the end, like, the world, the earth will win, will succeed when it comes to all of this, I think, in our evolution or devolution, if you want to look at it that way. You truly do have to wonder. I have no idea what I'm saying. Somebody please take this. Well, I see we go, we watch Carl's footage now and he tells us what's going on in the base. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. So let's let's let's fast forward. We talked about some of the theories of what it could be prosaic or not prosaic.

You were able to debunk some things that people did say that it definitely was, which it definitely was not. So where does the investigation stand now, Carl? I know you've hinted at there might be an explanation, and this might even have connections to other phenomena happening in the basin and further beyond. Yeah, give it to us, man. Whatever you're willing to share about what is the Magic Mesa? Yeah. So the Magic Mesa itself is a combination of some really unique things all aligning just in the right way

to where you could debunk it and look at it several times and think that it could not possibly be it and it isn't it. And then finally, just in the right way at the right time, it does replicate and recreate it. So I still have more work to do, but I'm confident enough to say that there was... So you see in the video when we debunk it with the headlights. So what we did was with the truck with Baha lights,

parked right up close, turn all the lights on, and shine it right up on the mesa. And then underneath my headlights, even up close, you still see the phenomena appear on the mountain side, on the hillside. So you think, okay, that can't be it. So then we go up on the ridge where the petroglyphs are and stand over there and shine spotlights. And we even stood there for hours and watched cars go by and didn't see anything, trying to do everything from black lights to lasers to I even recently flew a drone up there I haven't even

got to that footage yet and processed it but I finally had my friend come with his military grade night vision stuff and it revealed two little clues down in one corner of the night vision footage at one moment that I was like that looks like a street sign it looks like a like a stop sign and I was like there's no way and I couldn't believe it. I was so blown away because we had gone down every road with lights on and everything. We'd stood there for hours and watched cars go by nothing. And we filmed it. And then I was like, I swear this looks like a like a street sign for just like a split second. And so then we were like, we have to go double check all this. And so we started going back and back and back. And so what ended up happening was I stood at the base of the mesa while he got in my truck

and just started retracing steps that we've been, these roads that we've been down a million times, I swear, for like the last two months, we've driven down these a bunch. But what ended up happening was he drove down this one road that I was like, I swear this has got to be the road, it's got to be this one. And even when he did it, it did not recreate the phenomenon. So I was like, that's not it. That's not it, you know. So he said, hang on. Let me drive a little further. So he actually went three miles away, okay, from the mesa and turned around and it still didn't do it. And I said, do it one more time and turn the Baja lights on and just drive like you're kind of looking at your phone, like drive around. It's like, I've got, that's got to be it. So when he turned like the

high beams on and he went clear to the back of the road, Then just from that angle, there's one spot where the road dips down and then comes up and swerves. And just for like maybe 10 seconds, almost exactly we were able to recreate the lights on the mesa. And only then. And if you go any other angle from any other road or up close, the geology and the way the rocks have slid and the way the volcanic black rocks are, you cannot get the same mirrored glowing holographic light effect unless it's for some reason high beams from three miles to like two and three quarter miles away as soon as you get closer it just like flourishes and disappears any other road nothing nowhere else even the same road

without high beams on nothing but once you do it exactly right like somebody coming from the back country road and they forget their high beams on and it's a modern vehicle with LED lights or like a truck high enough then and only then it creates the lights and so there's there's that one thing that does it so unless there's some other phenomena a lights appearing i have to say that that's got to be it but it took us two months of debunking freaking everything to finally find that one tiny little stretch that creates all of those effects. And so you have to wonder then if you go onto the reservation and to different areas up in the basin,

if that's what they're catching on their security camera up there on that mesa too, some kind of a weird spectrum of light based on the geology. In fact, when James Keenan and Chris Bartell and I were up there, we actually, this is one of the rocks from the mesa off of Skinwalker Ranch. up on the top and it has that same black glossy volcanic kind of sheen it's really hard to tell in this lighting but if you take it outside it almost has this like black purple greenish iridescent effect that maybe it has something to do with it so i still need to test like these kind of rocks and that volcanic rock and you get just at the right angle and it creates like this boom, this glowing, almost a holographic, iridescent, weird aura that appears. And it's totally

supernatural looking and weird looking. And it's baffled this poor family for the longest time for 10 years, you know, you know, it's really, but yeah. And it's on the intro at Skinwalker Ranch. Now, I can't say that that's what's going on there. Right. I don't know if that's the entire light phenomenon even at the mesa here but when i i mean i got video footage now on my night vision camera with my friend driving in the truck and it's so similar that i'm convinced that that that one tiny stretch of road with weird somebody forgetting and leaving their high beams on has to explain a lot of what that family's been experiencing there not all of it but a lot of it so i still want to keep going and figure out like what the heck else is going on with

all the Native American supernatural stuff and where do the petroglyphs really lead? Why is there ceremonial wheels that line up on the mesa and what really is going on there and why? I don't know, but that is ultimately what it is. I think the majority of what people are experiencing is just that one weird stretch of headlights. So the people that right up front were like, it's got to be headlights, it's got to be headlights. I honestly believe that for everything that it's worth, they could have stood there and walked around and spent like a good week trying to figure it out and not been able to figure it out either. But it took me getting actually a lot of professional help to come in. I had a lot of people help me, even contacted the Night Vision Company and they couldn't figure it out either.

Yeah, I saw that email exchange. They were like, we're just as stumped as you are, man. Yeah. Wow. I'm curious to see what Dr. Travis Taylor would say. Yeah, me too. We've got to get him to comment on this. Carl, you mentioned the family had other experiences.

Is that something you can share? I understand if not, but like you said, this could explain the lights on the mesa, but this isn't it and, you know, this is only a precursor to other things they've experienced. Is there anything you can share about what else they have experienced there? Well, I've even seen like kind of unassociated with the Mesa itself. I've seen like what looked like balls of light come up out of the ground and then go back down that look like something standing up and then ducking back down. We've heard the weird auditory stuff.

It gets like like I said, the amplified coincidences start to occur where like I was standing at one time and I had my hand on a barbed wire fence. and just like my brother, I said, you know, I've, as many times as I've been here and as creepy as it can get, and I've never had anything bad happen to me. And right as I said that, the barbed wire like snapped in half and it curled back and like snagged onto my shirt and almost hit me in the face. And everybody was like, what the hell? And so it was just like weird stuff like that happens. You know, like when you're dreaming at night and it's like if you think it, it kind of like,

instantly happens. It almost feels like reality gets sort of like thin or interactive and I can see why you get this sense of like the trickster effect going on where like what your subconscious is concerned about like it's almost like opposite day like weird little things start to pop up. And the family's been experiencing all that kind of paranormal stuff the whole time as well. from hearing noises to seeing like what looks like a herd of buffalo running through the valley, like just shadows and hearing them, seeing what looks like a woman in a white dress, like walking along the hillside. I've been up at the petroglyph site on the other side of the valley,

and I was going there and sitting on this one particular rock and doing meditations for, I did that multiple times over the course of a year. And then I found out later that that rock that I was sitting on was the ancient shaman's seat that he would sit on to do his rituals or meditate. And I had no idea. And some of the meditation experiences that I was having there were pretty interesting too, where, you know, I would swear somebody was walking up through the crack of the rocks. And then I'd turn my head and there's just nobody there and hear things. things. I've had my paranormal equipment, like my rim pod, just go bonkers on me there, like a couple of times. I'll set it there and nothing's happening. And then it just starts

going off like some kind of weird energies moving through. But the family has seen, you know, balls of light. We've seen lights in the sky move around that could be satellites. Some of them have turned and arched and made different directional changes and stuff. But I don't know, I've never seen like an actual vivid, like craft that I could say was like a saucer, a Tick-Tac or anything. It's just been like, you know, the little dots in the sky. But there's been a lot of stuff, yeah. We do have a video of one of the UFOs you caught, which we'll share in a little bit here at a different location. But, wow, see, again, the minute you explained what the magic mesa was or wasn't um like my heart dropped for a second and then you picked it right back up because that is

only one explanation and only one phenomena that's occurring in this area but that's what it's about you look at like the investigations at blind frog or skin walker or any other location like you start checking things off and that's what you do you know as a UFO researcher it's not my job to prove UFOs are aliens it's my job to prove you know that it's everything but aliens. until you are literally left with nothing else. And then it's a true unexplained. So again, you know, while some might be like, all right, well, that's it. Magic Mesa solved.

It's not. It's not solved. It's only deepening the actual mystery going on there. We can move on to what that light phenomenon was and onto the other things. So. Yeah, and we'll keep checking the aspect of the lights and now double checking and keeping track of that road to see if that explains it all. Because there is the stuff coming up out of the ground and the other levels of it. I just want to announce what we find as we find it and everything.

So there isn't any kind of like deception going on or dishonesty or whatever. Because that truly isn't what it's about for me. It's about that truth because it's only a problem if your ego is hung up on it. Because then all of a sudden you're tempted to be like, well, man, you know, well, Chrissy knows this. I could, with the Mesa, just with the lights itself, and how hard it would have been to debunk, I could have figured out what this was. And I'm not trying toot my own horn, but I had people that wanted to do a documentary series and turn it into a whole TV show and everything, like a whole deal. But it was just like in the end, what everybody wanted to make a documentary about, I could have milked for a long time, but it's headlights. It is.

And the people that were yelling that at me, even though we could. not figure it out for two months, they were right. And the only time that's a problem is if your ego is all hurt by the truth. And it just isn't. I want to know the truth as much as anybody, so I don't care. Like, it doesn't hurt my feelings. I truly respect that. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's important that we try to figure out what's going on and be able to check that box and be like, okay, we solve that. Yeah, and on to the next mystery. You know, at the UAP Task Force, that's what they were doing mainly too. You know, I was talking to Jay Stratton about that when I was at SCU and Jay Stratton would say, you know, we're, we'd want to know.

Like, we want to be able to say like, yes, we can figure it out. It's birds. Yes, we figured out as drones because we can go to the next thing that we can't figure out. So it makes sense. And I, I respect that immensely, Carl. Well, sometimes, you know, well, Chrissy knows too. Sometimes I'll get like almost a little bit militant. Like, I want the truth.

Like, I'll get like almost like debunking like crazy conspiracy. I'll go down a rabbit hole trying to figure it out. And luckily, I always try to surround myself with friends, too, that will reel me in because I don't want to just sit and drink the Kool-Aid and believe it all, but I also want to be open-minded so that I'm not closed off. Because if it does require your consciousness to be open in order to perceive certain experiences, I want to be able to do that, too. So I'm trying to have all that in mind, and part of it is just having, yeah, like a good team around you so that people keep you from getting Skinwalker fever. bring you back down when you start floating up. They're like, nope, nope, nope.

It's a dust particle. It's not a orb. You're good. Well, you did mention that you were speaking to Brandon Fugel. So a lot of people are going to kill me if I don't ask. What is ETH? I mean, that, again, maybe that could somewhat explain the ridge at Skinwalker Ranch, but maybe not. But when you brought this to him, what did he have to say?

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Save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com slash special offer. Terms apply. The similarities are right there, you know, the way that it appears and how it gets captured on camera with night vision. It totally looks very similar. So that's, to me, is really reassuring. Everything that I have thrown at Brandon Fugel is even like I was just saying, some of the hard-hitting like conspiracy stuff from the previous era, you know, spending time with Chris Bartel and the community, I've got a lot of friends and people that I know up there that have worked

around the ranch and other areas that have had good and bad experiences with the truth in lies revolving around it. And to me, my experience communicating with Brandon Fugel up to now has been that everything that I have put in front of his face being like, well, what about this and what about that? I don't want to even come and work there if it's going to be like this, you know, if you can't explain that. He's just been confident like he's aware of it. And honestly, a lot of, I think, why he's brought Chris Bartell and James Keenan and even myself around, and back up there is to try and help clear up a lot of that confusion from the previous era and a lot of the different exploratory research that was going on there

that is still a lot of people are not even allowed to talk about that was going on that's right that muddies a lot of the waters about what's true and what's not up there in the basin and around the skinwalker ranch and so having people like us come up there and go through it helps us cut through that Skinwalker fever, cut through the history, cut through all the lies around it, and resonate the truth up to the surface. And so when we see things like the Mesa,

and we work together to solve that, it ends up being about finding the truth. There is that aspect of like, yeah, we're, like I have a YouTube channel and he's got a television show and there is like a way of disseminating it out into the public and you have to keep a certain amount of views going in order to pay the bills and the people that work for you and stuff. But it's ultimately about doing that in a way that brings the truth to the surface and the

limited time that you have to put it out there to the public. What's going on up there in the basin and the stuff that we're doing around Skinwalker Ranch that's parallel to the ranch itself is way bigger than that. We've spent a lot of time, well, not a lot of time. time. We spent time with some of the Skinwalker Ranch team up going into caves, into sinkholes, aqueduct systems, using ground penetrating radar detection equipment, looking for caves, looking at the petroglyphs. And none of that's even with camera crew around or anything. It's just by invitation to try and figure out what is going on and what is

happening, which to me gives me confidence that there is something real and that they're onto it. And I was shown a few things and had some conversations that I'm not allowed to talk about. That also gives me confidence that Brandon is really trying to sort through all the bull crap of the people that have revolved around the ranch in the past and get to the bottom of it and get some answers for the community and people that are curious. It's good to hear. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I know, I mean, I've talked to Brandon. All three of us have on different occasions.

And he seems very genuine. That's just my gut feeling. Like, could I be wrong? Of course. I've been wrong about many UFO witnesses who've come to me. And I found out that they were lying, fabricating, or had some sort of mental issue. And that's sad. And that's just part of the territory. But I don't get that. I don't get that. And I've been kind of on this hating bigelow kick lately. and I'm not that kind of person,

but I get frustrated at the lack of transparency that occurred during the Bigelow days, and I'm sure Chris Bartell did as well and others who worked there. They want what they saw there or experienced or the data that was collected out there, but Bigelow's not willing to do that. And say what you will about a TV show, but Brandon has brought more to the public about this ranch in three seasons

then Bigelow did his entire time there. So I applaud him for that. Yeah, is it a TV show? Yeah. Are some people making money? Of course, it's television. Like, that's just the way it is. It doesn't mean Brandon's the one making money.

I'm sure he's losing money on a lot of this stuff too. You know, especially with the high-tech experiments they've been doing. So yeah, yeah, that's kind of my two cents. I want to know what Bigelow experienced there. But I really think that while Bigelow, you know, played some games with the phenomenon. Brandon is like in the Super Bowl. Like he's like focused and he's ready to really discover what's going on. Not just a Skinwalker Ranch, but like you said, the surrounding areas as well, they're exploring further out this season in their show, which I thought was pretty cool too. So yeah,

again, that's my two cents on Skinwalker Ranch. I don't know if you guys want to add anything else to that. I would just say that like as a metaphor, and people can take this literally if they want to or not, but it would be the difference between, like, one generation approaching the research more with, like, Ouija boards and another generation approaching it with, like, with science and meditation and clarity. And it's totally different, right? And one approach is telling the people involved what they're doing and them all being on board and wanting to do it. And the other one is not telling anybody and using people like guinea pigs is just also different. And so there are a lot of questions that I have about the previous era as well that, you know, we don't have to get into. But it, you know, it does make me question the intentions of the original program and what they were trying to do.

But I do feel like what Brandon's trying to do now is on the right track. And it is surprising that Travis is there and that he was on the UAP task force and everything. Of course. Just adds to the onion. I'll say, yeah. I can say I probably knew about two weeks before everyone else on that. That's it. I only knew about two weeks ahead and I probably shouldn't have.

Here's how it played out in my head. He had one too many bourbons at this disclosure event you both were at, and he just let it out to you and Chrissy, and then you guys just had to sit on it until it was announced, right? Is that exactly what happened to him? Close enough. I'm just kidding. I think that they're like the Bigelow,

Bigelow knows so much. You know, he does, and he has so much footage. Even just from, like, the path of Skinwalker, like those, if you've read the book, like ripping out of the telephone cords up on, that they actually were filming. And they have no idea who ripped it out or what ripped it out, but they have that on video and he won't release that.

Like, he has so much stuff. And they actually did a lot of, a massive investigation. He just, you know, Bigelow just has so much of it and he won't let it go. And I think he, you know, when I talk to George Knapp, George says he probably never will because he doesn't care about the general public. You know, it's his research. So that's sad. The only thing that I would say, and I talked to Travis Taylor about this as well when I was in Utah, the only thing I'll say is they're doing a lot of research. But the only criticism I have is that the science is not as strong as it could be for the fact that when they had those llamas in the pen, they had no cameras on the actual pen.

They had them from a distance. So I asked Travis about that. And I said, you know, it's really, it's challenging because if you're looking to do science, that's not proper science because you're not having the proper equipment. And he agreed to that. He said, you know, and I said, you should be putting the science team involved in it. Not so much, you know, Prometheus, the production company, it should be you doing it. And if anything, I would keep saying that to people that want to watch the show

and getting Travis to have his own science team running it, not so much the production. team because that's when you're going to get different science coming through. So that's my only criticism to that because I think Travis would agree and a lot of other people would agree watching it that do, you know, when you're doing that much research, you know, you want the best and highest quality possible, right? So, but you're right. I'm glad that they're actually doing something compared to like Bigelow not releasing anything from the 90s, unfortunately. Yeah. And you have so much material. I'll be honest with you. Some of this stuff that I was shown that Brandon and his team are doing that Eric Bard's got going on there at Skinwalker Ranch kind of blew my mind. It's pretty high

level what they're doing to try and track and pinpoint things down. I think what they do edit for the show is just like the crust. It's a thin slice that has a story arc to it. And like honestly, even the stuff that like me and James and Chris went and did with half of the Skinwalker team, that I was the only one I think that was even filming anything. I've been uploading on my YouTube channel and stuff, anything from that trip at all. And it was like, and we did a ton for like a week climbing all over that place.

And it was everybody was trying to find pieces to the puzzle to that place, to the ranch. And it didn't even have anything to do with the show. It had to do with finding answers. And so, yeah, all of that is encouraging to me. Yeah,

I don't think they're going to show it. I always wonder when I get brought into these places and I want to make this clear that like I'm a very good useful idiot. It's good to bring somebody who has a big YouTube channel in to be like to spot a ghost or to see a UFO and to validate some location and to shout it to the world, you know, and turn around like a parrot and bring everybody on my podcast. And that's okay that I have that reputation because I make a lot of friends. but ultimately the reputation that I want is don't invite me over unless you want me to find the truth

and that's why what I keep trying to push it at Brandon's face and everybody up there at Skinwalker Ranch and they just keep wanting us to come back and keep working there

so it's encouraging to me says something it does well videos you did go to the place the mecca for UFO people besides maybe Roswell area 51

you went to groom Lake. You saw your video. You went to the mailbox. You hit all the right spots, man. And what happens? A vlogger, a YouTuber, captures UFO phenomena. I've gone there so many times and I've never captured anything. But of course, you got it. So let's go ahead and show some of the UFO video that you caught over Groom Lake. This was really interesting. They're there. See? So this is in Nevada, guys. Yeah, the three lights. What is that? What year was this, Carl? I went back and filmed more after this. This was, I think, like, last October. Look at that.

They're going up in the sky. Yeah. This is right in the area where Bob Lazare said to look, to park and look to the south. What is that? Was this on a Friday? I always hear the Fridays are the best days. I heard that, I heard Wednesday. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't remember what night this was. Yeah, so I was on Groom Lake Road. I just adjusted. Filming straight south over this whole valley where there's just like nothing. Oh, wow. Oh, I need to cover this light up. Okay, now there's just a single light again.

I was trying to narrate because everybody criticizes like, what Cameron, what, you know, what's? No, yeah, you did the right thing. So I'm like, I'm shaking. Sorry, I'm shaking. because I always try to talk through it. Yeah, so we get a little better look here, stationary. Now, this is weird here. Wow.

This was before I owned Night Vision, so this was just with my cell phone, and then I have, like, a little scope that attaches that, like, extends the field, like, 16 times. Okay. But with my normal vision, you know how it is, like, when you try to take a picture of the moon, it just sucks. Oh, it's, yeah. Compared to what you see with your own eyes. Every time. Yeah.

Yeah, this thing looked huge in the sky, like, like, it was floating. up and rotating away from me. Man. So I guess could you maybe give us a little context, Carl, like the setup of, um, did you just happen to spot this as you were waiting? How long were you waiting for something to show up? I always love to hear kind of the story around the video because I always get sent videos. And like you said, um, the story people have to tell is extraordinary.

And then I look at the video and I'm like, it's the moon. It's a dot. Like there, that's why I think it's so important to have witness testimony. with a video. So yeah, maybe give us a little of the backstory behind, you know, your trip there and how you were told and where you were told to look and, yeah, what you thought and felt when you finally saw something. Yeah, so I have a few different places that I like to go just based on going there

and figuring out where stuff is and line of sight because it's kind of hard. You can look on, like on Google Earth and try to plan it out, but until you get there, you don't realize, like, oh, Like I thought I could park right here, but that doesn't make sense because there's like this big hill in the way and I can't see anything. And so when you finally get there, it starts to make sense. So one of the spots is like Groom Lake Road on the east side of Area 51. If you park there after dark and the sky is clear, you can see all kinds of weird stuff take off over the west horizon over the mountains. If you see red lights appear on the mountain range to the west,

that's because they've got huge like 50 caliber thermal night vision guns pointed at you, looking at you to see what you're doing from the mountain range. But if you look to the west there or to the south from that road, that is like a public dirt road. I have had Area 51 security come up and point their spotlights in my truck. and kind of bug me until I left and stuff. But you technically can park there and look. And so if you look to the west and the south and up in the sky, you'll see weird stuff.

A lot of it you have to assume is, you know, test flights. So my plan was to go film in the daytime because I'm, you know, a filmmaker. And so I go to Groom Lake Road and then I go up to the black mailbox and film there and look around, which is also a really great spot. You can see everything all the way to the south as well. But then you go up to Rachel, Nevada, which is where the little alien is. And whenever I try to film in there, I get told to stop or kicked out. So I don't film inside, just film outside.

But there's a lot of cool stories about that place, too. Now, if you go past on the main highway, just on the north side of the little alien, if you go past that to the west, there are some dirt roads where there's a north kind of secret entrance into area 51 from there. And if you go down by the farmers circles on the dirt roads there, you can actually hear during the daytime all of the top gun pilot training sonic booms going off like all day you can hear. You can't even see anything when you look up in the sky.

You can see some. I've seen stealth bombers and different stuff fly around. But you can hear all kinds of sonic booms and weird stuff flying overhead that you can't even see. And at night there you can see a lot of stuff too. So that was my whole plan was trying to do that whole loop. So later when I've gone back, I filmed a lot of weird stuff in that spot up west and north of Area 51. But this particular video, I had gone up to the little alien and was headed back. I'd stopped at the black mailbox and not really seen anything other than just satellites and small stuff in the sky. And then I decided to park.

at the at the groom lake road on my way out and sat there for a minute and then I saw it and the lights appeared and I hurried and got my the scope on my phone ready and then it like appeared again and I got it again now they do do a lot of a bomber testing and test flight runs even when the weather's bad they'll do like AC130 and like warthog ground targeting stuff so it could be some kind of like ground flare system that they were doing targeting on. I don't know. But for my perspective, it looked like a huge sideways craft that was rolling away from me like a, like a disc that was going up in the sky. I don't know. I don't know how to describe it, but that's what it looked like to me. Great. Any noise? Did you hear anything? No, the wind was,

that was the other thing is the wind was blowing like pretty hard. And so I didn't even get out of the truck, I was filming through the windshield, the front windshield of the truck. So now I couldn't hear anything. It was just the wind blonde. I had a similar experience down Groom Lake when I went to Area 51, too. I was, yeah, well, not in not inciting, but with the camo's coming out. And I think that there's a sensor in the road. So what we realized was when we turned down Groom Lake, there's that little mountain in the distance.

You know what I'm talking about? Carl, and they sit up there with their truck. and once we turned right on the road in the middle of the night, like, well, it was going to, it was around like 6 p.m. So it was the sun was going down. And so they put their spotlight right on us and followed us. It's about 10 minutes to get to that back gate at least. And when they watched us get closer,

they came off their little hill and then we're driving towards us. So we ran out and took some photos. But yeah, we watched the camos come at us as well. So I think that there's a sensor in the ground. Yeah. Definitely. They have ground sensors. I've been out in the middle of dry lake beds out there that are like 45 minutes away from Area 51 in the middle of nowhere. And there's like runway tracks from airplanes. And you don't know if it's like drug cartels outside of Vegas dropping stuff. You know. Possibly, right? There is like big landing gear tracks, like from heavy planes landing and stuff. And I found hatches and pipes that are locked with solar panels on them.

Like there's underground entrances. Honestly, when you look like Area 51 and just that whole base all the way to Nellus to Indian Springs all the way up to Dougway in Utah is all one huge system. Like almost the whole state of Nevada really is a base and all the way up into part of Utah. And the whole northern part of Nevada is just bombing ranges where they do airplane bombing runs and stuff and different flight tests and everything. So yeah, the whole state is that's what it is. Crazy. Well, I got a quick story for you guys. I don't know if I've actually ever shared this on the podcast.

So, yeah, I did a TV show where we went to the gates of Area 51. And you guys know with television, like things get edited out that you wish didn't. And this was actually one of those things that didn't make it on air that I was like, how could you not have put that in the show? But again, I'm not an editor. So it's not my job. But I was with a paranormal investigator, Tracy Austin, and my investigative partner, Jennifer Marshall.

and we're in our car heading towards the gate. And like you guys said, they have things in the ground. They are listening to you. They are monitoring you. They can see you from miles and miles away. So I think we were about, I'm going to say, a good three, four miles still from the gate, the back gate, I believe it was. And we're driving. And we had walkie talk, was it walkie talkies?

Yeah, we had walkie talkies where we had our crew behind us. us in a van, you know, the camera guys and all that. And they're telling us like, okay, you guys are getting a little closer. Like when we get this far, pull over, we'll set up, blah, blah, blah. So as we're driving, all of a sudden, all of the walkie-talkies go dead, like just completely dead. They stopped working. We can't communicate. So we're like, look, I'm driving. Was I driving? No, Jennifer was driving. And we all look back and we're like, what do we do? They're like, keep going, keep going. All the walkies go dead.

And then Jennifer, for some reason, she's like, I'm going to turn the radio on and see, like, if there's any interference. So she turns the radio on to the AM. And I'm not kidding you, out of nowhere, it's just this voice. And it's saying, it's reading our license plate back to us over the radio.

So it's like G4H23 coming up on the east gate or whatever, self-gate, two miles out. And we're like, well, that's not our crew. That's not our director. They're not messing with us. It was literally what I believe was base security somehow got onto our radio and was reading our license plate back to us. And I took it as a message. Like we know you're here.

We know you're coming. And like you guys said, it might have just been like Camo dudes messing with us. What else are they going to do for like a 12-hour shift? They love messing with these people. They totally do. And I was so scared. I, like, turned as white as a ghost. I'm, like, shaking.

Jennifer forming Navy vet is like, Ryan, calm down, calm down. And it was just like, I'm like, how did that not make it into the show? But that was my experience towards the gate, was possibly base security reading my license plate back to me. And that was enough for me to be like, okay, all right, that's as close as we're getting.

That's the closest we're getting. Seriously. Somebody in there is like. They know your name. And they're like, He was born on this day. Yes. Oh, he's a Leo.

Happy birthday, Ryan. Let's send him a message. Let's read back his browser history from last week. Oh, God, please know. That's the last thing I need on television. Oh, man. Well, that was such a cool video, Carl. Again, like, very few actually go to Area 51 and see something anomalous.

Like you said, there are test flights all the time. Could this have been something like that? Yeah, of course, of course. But it was pretty interesting. I'm not going to lie. So what do you think? Do you think it was top secret tech? Was this the reverse engineer craft Lazard talked about?

What do you think it was? I'm of the mindset that even if it is some kind of a ground targeting flare system, it is a secret unknown ground targeting flare system. So it is still some unknown secret system that they have. what I saw and how it was moving from what looked like low in the valley up in the sky and the size of it, how it was moving up and not affected by the high winds and the shifting winds. The whole thing to me was really strange. You know, I'm skeptical, open-minded to it just being flares.

I know that they just do testing stuff. So, you know, obviously it could have just been testing. It could be some kind of projection equipment. I don't know. But to me, it looked like a, it was like a classic sighting, you know, like seeing some big, sort of weird inverted saucer-shaped things sort of glowing and rotating away from me. And I walked into the little alien and looked at pictures on the wall of glowing, looking UFO craft that looked very similar. But, you know, I've also had, you know, friends and heard reports and stuff that say if we knew what was actually flying around and what we were testing out there, it would answer a lot of our questions.

So I think it's kind of a mixed bag. I'm of the belief that there's a mixed bag between actual phenomena, other entities and craft, whether it be time travel stuff or from advanced entities from another dimension or part of the universe or solar system or whatever. I don't know. But I'm open-minded to all of it, even our connection with it and what has to do with us and our perceptions of reality and how they can seem to mess with that too. Yeah, absolutely. Well, on a personal level, what do you think of Lizar? Do you buy into this guy's story? I mean, it changes for me every day.

It's the most bipolar thing in this entire UFO topic. Yeah, what do you think? Do you have any personal opinions? on him or what he's brought forward or what George Knapp has brought forward, Jeremy Corbell. Yeah. What are your honest thoughts and opinions on Bob Lizar if you're willing to share? Put you on the spot. I don't know, Bob.

I think a lot of what he has done and what I think the team is doing and what they're doing is compelling and really interesting and has opened a lot of people's minds around the possibilities and the questions, but I really don't know if it's valid or not. I've just as many skeptical questions around some of the programs and the characters and people involved. Why is it that a lot of these people who are so interested in this topic at a high level from, you know, revolving around Skinwalker Ranch, the Bigelow era. Yeah. All that group, Lazare, everybody kind of, when you connect all the dots, a lot of the big players, why were they really? in the early days, like laser satellite physicists. They were building laser communication systems

and satellite systems and stuff. And Bigelow owns a satellite company and almost like, so I'm always like skeptical too. Like are they trying to use that? Because they're the same people that started the Stanford Research Institute programs for remote viewing and telepathy to spy on the Russians. So are they trying to amplify human consciousness with lasers and satellites? Or are they trying to to read people's minds? Is there some other layer to this they don't want us to know? And that's why the Bigelow era has been sealed all this time. So that involvement like Bob Lazar and how that all came out and some of that is still really questionable to me. And so I don't know. But I don't know. I would stay skeptical and open-minded and everything and just do your,

This is why I'm so compelled to do my own work a lot to go out and look for myself, to meet people for myself, to keep an open mind. I'll get hyped about stuff sometimes, but then when you dig into it, you're like, ah, man, it's not real, and you get mad, you know? That's the name of the game, and you've got to buckle up if you're going to get into this kind of work. It's kind of like that, but I don't know. I think Bob Lazar is very interesting, but right now I have too many weird questions about some of it.

some of the story and the character attributes around the integrity of it all. Absolutely. Yeah, I think, again, it'll be, it's part of the mythology now. And that's kind of where I think it stands. Same when things like Roswell and, like, will we ever truly know if Lazar was telling in truth? I don't know. What crash in Roswell?

I don't know. But it's a part of the history, and you can't deny that. And it's shaped and molded what euphology has become today, whether we like it or not. So, yeah, it is what it is. But I think what you said, I don't know, is probably the best answer anyone could give when it comes to all of this. Anyone who pretends to have the answers, that's who I say run away as fast as you can. Because anyone who has the ego to say they know the answers to this is not somebody I personally would want to work with or be involved with. Because I don't think we're ever truly going to know what happened at the mesa, what's happening on Skinwalker Ranch.

what crashed in Roswell. I think these things are part of the journey. And it's what makes life interesting and makes these pursuits. We, the three of us do, in my opinion, worth it. I don't think I want the answers. They're either going to be depressing, they're going to be too scary or somewhere in between.

But I love, that's why I love, I met you two who've become really good friends through just these topics. And that's enough for me, personally. That's enough for me. Yeah, and I think if we, when we decide or at some point we maybe figure it at something that we're never even going to know or thought of before. I really do feel that. You know, it's, we only know what we know. And, you know, and that's the thing. You know, we start, we're hopefully potentially getting

smarter as we grow and evolve as a species. But I think it's going to take a really long time. And I don't think I'm going to be alive for the time we figure it out. But it doesn't mean that generations to come won't listen to other podcasts or everybody's work and say, hey, and there's so much more of it than there's ever been from around the world and people interconnecting and solving mysteries together and creating relationships and friendships and friendship. So I agree that's just as important as it is to solving the mystery. But I think that the work that everybody's doing now collectively and putting it on YouTube or just sharing it, writing books, podcasts, like, can you imagine if that was done 75 years ago where we'd be? It'd be unbelievable. I know. And if you were listening to all of it,

Right, and we listen to all of it and go back to it and reference it. So this is like a whole new generation that's just giving research, which I think is lovely. Because then when we're past, they're going to look at it and be like, well, we had this base to start from and even more. And now look at the type of technology we have to use this. You know, it's not just night vision anymore. And like we've been talking about, people have to, I think if they really want disclosure, they can't be picky about it. they have to be willing to also swallow the jagged pills along with the ones that they're hoping for because everybody, you know, at a certain aspect, is hoping with a bias that like what will come out

and what will be found, what will get disclosed or revealed will fit in line with what they think and what they're hoping and that it will be good for everybody, you know, in a way. But ultimately, some of the answers are going to be maybe like you can't dig on the ranch because an old lady owns the mineral rights there, and so you can't go below 20 feet. Well, that's a bummer. That's not because of like Skinwalker, hitchhiker phenomena. It's some other very mundane answer.

And some of those are going to be things like that, maybe in the Bigelow files that are a huge letdown. But in there, if we look deep enough, there is a reason, you know, that Travis Taylor was planted for like five years without anybody knowing at the ranch and why the research is still going on there and why there's still other stuff happening because even through all of that,

sometimes research is really messy and sometimes it's unethical. But hopefully now, like you guys are saying, with everybody working together and with the internet and with it being public, that can all change and the integrity can come forward and we can start to swallow the tough pills

and face the stuff that as a real bummer to realize, oh, it's just headlights or it's just this really dumb, mundane answer, or whatever. The reports were all coming from this guy that was an alcoholic or something. Okay, so then we can finally rest tonight about all these stories. But what about this? You know, what is the part of it that's compelling? Because this is what always gets me is out of, like, all of the UFO sightings and these paranormal events, only one of them has to be true for it to be interesting to me.

only one UFO sighting or abduction encounter or something has to be real in order for it to be a real thing. Only one. And so out of all of it, it's just a matter of sifting through it, just like trying to come to the invention of the working light bulbs. It's like how many do you have to go through until you find the one that finally clicks, you know? So you just have to be willing to face it, you know, walk the path until you find the answers. and with every answer just comes with even more questions. And so I've just got to go for it. That's got to be part of the fun, right?

That's part of the fun is that that's why we're joking. It's like Scooby-Doo. The whole time, even as a kid, you're like, you get into it. And then when they pull the mask off, you're like, man, it was just like old man Thompson down the road. But ultimately, there's a satisfaction in knowing the truth too. And we have to be willing to accept that as well. Yep.

And there's always a next episode of Scoopie-Doo, right? Keep going, right? Yeah. I just want to take a moment to thank Mark and Warlock for the super chats, guys. Very kind of you. Well, I can't think of a better way to kind of start wrapping things up, Carl. And Chrissy, you guys have given me so much of your time. But before we go, Chrissy, do you have any last questions for Carl that we didn't get to in terms of Mesa or Skinwalker or anything?

I'm good. I'm just excited to see what you're going to do next, Carl. and we'll be planning a trip to in Nevada shortly. That's my question, Carl. I will be, I will become. Yeah, exactly. What is next, Carl? I have a ton of stuff.

I'm still going back to the Valley at the Magic Mesa there. Maybe we'll change the name for Magic Mesa. It's still magical. Maybe the Magic Valley, I don't know. We'll figure it out. We'll adapt as we go. You know, I'm still talking with, you know, Brandon Fugel, working with James Keenan and stuff on other projects

and things. I'm doing a lot more expanded research on kind of the oral traditions that have to do with the core of the petroglyphs. Specifically, there's a lot of legends, and I get told a lot about giants, the folklore and the legends of giants being buried. I've had people call me on the phone and tell me they found bones of like 14 foot tall bodies that come and get taken off their property and stuff. And so I'm really fascinated with all of it. I don't really. care of what mystery it is. It's all really intriguing how it connects to me. So yeah, I'm doing that. Hopefully some more stuff up at Skinwalker Ranch and from there. But lately, I'm still just now editing and uploading footage from when I first got up to the basin like two weeks ago. So I'm still

catching up on all the backlog of video footage that I've got. So it'll still take me like another week or so to catch up. But it's being good. Nice, nice, man. Well, please tell us before we go, where can we find the YouTube channel, the podcast, and yeah, everything you're up to you. Yeah, so the main YouTube channels is called Carl the Crusher. And then on the podcast is Carl Vibe. So if you type that into YouTube or whatever, you'll find me. And then I'm, yeah, on Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, all over the place.

Awesome. Well, this has been like a long time coming. I've been waiting to talk to you for a while, and I'm glad we had something really cool to talk about. And I'm glad you were able to solve this mystery, or at least a part of the mystery. I think a lot of people were really excited to figure out what this was and that you had an answer, which is something we don't get in this field often, and you have to be willing to accept those answers when they come. Put your beliefs aside and follow the facts where they lead, and that's what you and your team did. And that's why I truly respect that.

You didn't stretch it out for like, you know, 50 YouTube videos or a documentary. You said, I think I know what this was. So the public deserves to know that. And we appreciate that. I hope you know that. That this was a cool, cool thing. It was a fleeting moment in the grand scheme of mystery in Utah. And it's because of you, man, that we now know what happens.

So thank you. Thanks. Yeah. And that is, yeah, it's just all part of it just to go after it and go after the truth and not have your ego hung up on it. And it is okay to have your beliefs intact, just to don't have your ego more intact when the truth actually hits you in the face and you realize it. Like, that should be part of the fun too. You got to be able to laugh at it and realize like, oh man, like, and chase it down. If you're going to investigate it, you've got to be willing to be wrong a lot until you find the actual answer.

You don't know the answer until you're wrong like a dozen times, you know, and that's part of it. And you have to enjoy that and enjoy the mystery or it's just going to frustrate you and make you angry. But yeah, I still, I still am addicted to all of it. I still have had way more unusual, strange, unexplainable experiences than I have ones that I've just been able to like debunk in some of these locations. and so I'm still very on the hook and curious about what the heck is going on in some of these spots for sure. Nice. Well, we're going to have to have you come back to share more of those stories, man. But I'm going to hang out with Christy here for just a moment, a couple moments to debrief. But again, I got to thank you for your time tonight for providing the videos to us to show.

And again, for coming on Summer in the Skies for the very first time. It truly was a pleasure. You bet. We'll do it again. And you guys got to come on to my show, too. are we fine. Oh, 100%. I'm there. We're there for sure.

Awesome, have a great night. We'll talk to you soon. You too, thanks. Bye. Bye, bye, girl. He's so great. What'd you think?

I was all day, I'm like racking my brain. I have so many questions, but I don't know, like, what to cover, what not to cover. I know he's going to reveal a lot more in his videos to come. But yeah, what do you think of the answer to the mystery at the mesa? I'm not I the headline part I'm like I guess I never I would never have thought about that to be honest but I'm glad that he went down that road and I'm glad that he said like where was he positioned and they tried a whole much of different other areas again like I'm just curious to see what dr. Travis Taylor would say about that and then how is the same thing that's happening and him using the same kind of I guess research that Carl did at skinwalker to see if that's the case as well because it's happened the exact same thing. happening at Skimwalker. It's happening all over the basis. So it totally can possibly make sense that that's what it is. And it seems like such a simple answer, but sometimes the simplest answer is the most plausible. So yeah, I'm like I'm excited that he did it and spending time with Carl

was really great. He's just a good human and he cares, as you can tell, he cares a lot about the truth. And I think that's one of the most important parts as being a researcher is that you're open-minded and you're looking for the truth consistently, right? So I like that. And I like that he keeps saying that too because I think it's really important. It is. It is. You know, the truth and again, facts don't have feelings. They don't care what your beliefs are. And, you know, ever since I first saw Carl, I think it was on the unidentified celebrity review. I just knew. I'm like, this is a good, this is a good dude. Like, he's got that passion in the hunger and to look at these mysteries and to find the real answers, no matter what those answers might be. And I think that's awesome.

And I think that's why people like Brandon Fugler are like, yeah, come to the ranch, man. Like you did that. You did that on your own, like that investigation. Like we could use those resources and minds like yours to do that sort of thing. And James Keenan too, I think that was a name he brought up a few times tonight. James, I've worked with James as well on an investigation that I was doing out in Arizona. And another person, another individual who's just looking. for the truth and has done the homework and the research and looked at the history of the areas.

You know, I was totally blind when I went into this investigation that I did with James and Jennifer, my investigator partner over there at Mysteries Decoded. And they were there to like school me very quickly, mind you, and catch me up to what was going on. So I think it's awesome. I think Carls really surrounded himself with a good crew of people. who aren't just going to let what Blind Frog Ranch or Skinwalker Ranch say on television be the final conclusion to these things. Because the basin is huge.

Utah's huge. There's a lot of things going on. And there's a lot of voices that need to be heard, not just these two television shows, right? 100%. And I think the massive indigenous conversation is really important. You know, one thing that Skinwalker Ranch doesn't do is show that indigenous side as much as they could. So it's nice when you have other people.

that are doing their own research and listening and echoing the voices or giving the indigenous community respect outside of just a voice. They're giving them the respect because when I was there, that was one of the most important things that they said. It's like, you know, we don't just want to be heard. We want to be respected. And I think that that's really important. And Carl, you know, shedding a light on that. And then also looking at the revolutionary science too and looking at meditation in different forms of spirituality, which I think is an interesting and suggested, you know, most scientists that our mainstream wouldn't do that, but you can always look at you in science and have another opinion and be open-minded to it because you never know, right?

We're at a place before that UFOs weren't real and now the government says they are. So I think being open-minded is the most important thing that we see here. So it's great. And I'm glad he's doing his work and he's a civilian. So it's nice. And civilians can do work and he's showing that. So again, they can do good work. Really damn good work for sure.

Well, speaking of good work, Chrissy, before we go, what are you up to? This is the first time I've caught up with you in a while. You've been just globe trotting all over the place. I'm getting ready to move to another freaking country. I know you are. I'm excited for you. I am. I'm excited for you to go to Europe.

And you're going to be in Scotland. So you better give us updates on Nessie. We want Nessie updates. Oh, yes. Nessie photos and updates. Nessie photos and updates. And you bet your ass you and Carl are going to make it. over there at some point and we'll get out there.

But what are you up to? What's coming up next over at the debrief and with your work with rebelliously curious? Yeah, let us know what's going on. Yeah, I'm looking at talking to someone at NASA that's going to be on some work that they're doing, not UAP related, more of their and some internal work. So I'm booking that right now. And then just Micah Hanks and I, who is the editor-in-chief of the debrief, he also has the Micahanks Program podcast.

We went out for 10 days. So we'll be doing some snippets on our debrief website as well of just our trip. And he talks a little bit about it in his podcast as well that he recently did. And I have some snippets on my recent podcast that I did with George Knapp and Dr. Colm Colahar that are from that did the research for NIDS, the Institute of, oh, my God, the National Institute of, oh, my gosh, discovery science. Very good, Chrissy, acronym of Discovery Science in the 90s. So more to that, I'll probably look to have some other more UFO-related people on the podcast. I don't want to say to you yet because I'm still booking them. But lots of good stuff in the making.

So, yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait. And of course, guys, you can catch Chrissy here on Somewhere in the Sky as well, wherever you get your podcasts. If you're not subscribed to the channel right here that you're watching on, please subscribe below, like the video, share it.

I know a lot of people are going to be really. interesting to hear Carl's explanations to what was the mystery at the mesa. So yeah, please share this with everyone you know. Check out Carl, his YouTube channel, Carl the Crusher, and podcast Carl Vibe as well. Please be sure to check those out. And other than that, I'm just going to say good night and thank you to everyone for tuning in, guys. Thanks for sticking with us for almost two hours. This is one of our longer episodes of someone in the skies, but absolutely, absolutely well worth it. And yeah, You could check out the audio version of this that will be coming to you this upcoming Monday as well on the Summer in the Skies podcast. And we will have Carl back on as the investigation continues out there in Utah and beyond.

So with nothing else other than our mantra to leave you guys with, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. Chrissy, thank you. And thank you to everyone else. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions in association with the entertainment, One Podcast Network.