Somewhere in the Skies - The Navajo Paranormal Rangers

Episode Date: May 21, 2023

On episode 318 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we welcome Jonathan Dover and Stanley Milford, the Navajo Paranormal Rangers. The Navajo Rangers is an organization of the Navajo Nation, spanning over 27,000 square miles of territory in the Southwestern United States. Navajo Rangers are tasked with critical duties like forest fire evacuations, search and rescues, and assisting in investigations across the Navajo Nation. However, in the year 2000, they were tasked with undertaking unique cases under the banner of "Special Investigations" which would include everything from Bigfoot, UFOs, Skinwalkers and other unexplained phenomena. Today, they share some of their most compelling and impactful cases, how they undertook their investigations, and where they stand today on the mysterious phenomena happening across the Navajo Nation and beyond. Catch The Navajo Paranormal Rangers at Contact in the Desert (June 2-4) and learn more at: https://rb.gy/lxl4k  Order Ryan’s new book: https://a.co/d/4KNQnM4 Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Book your Cameo video with Ryan at: https://bit.ly/3kwz3DO Official Store: CLICK HERE Buy Somewhere in the Skies coffee! Use promo code: SOMEWHERESKIES10 to get 10% off your order: https://bit.ly/3rmXuap Order Ryan’s older book: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Email Ryan directly at: [e-mail] Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryansprague51 Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Copyright © 2023 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh, no. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com slash special offer.

Terms apply. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Hi, guys, Ryan here from Somewhere in the Skies. And today we have a very exciting interview for you guys. You know them being featured on Unsolved Mysteries, the Paranormal Rangers. But if you're not familiar with their work, you're going to learn all about it tonight. We have Jonathan Dover and Stanley Milford on the show. So let's not waste any more time.

Let's bring them in. We're going to hear the origin of how the Navajo Paranormal Rangers started, the investigations that they conducted and where things stand now. So without further ado, we have Jonathan Dover, Stanley Milford. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Now, like I mentioned, a lot of people probably saw you guys on Unsolved Mysteries.

However, a little bit of trivia. my first ever UFO conference I attended was the International UFO Congress, where I was volunteering backstage, you know, I would do whatever they needed me to do, sweep the floors, get coffee, you know, work the soundboard. And I specifically remember I was one of the individuals that put the microphones on you guys for your talk there. And I was blown away. I, you know, when I had heard that you were basically the real. Life X-Files, I couldn't get enough. And I've been following your work ever since.

So this is a true honor to have you guys on here today. Nice to be here. Yeah, it's been a little bit of travel with COVID and everything, but we came out on the other side. Okay. We're all here. We're all here. And we've got a lot of stories to hear from you guys. So I'm excited.

Well, before we get to, obviously, everyone wants to hear about some of the investigations that you guys have been on. But I always like to get the origin story, of course. So if you guys don't mind, maybe Jonathan, we'll start with you, how you both became Navajo Rangers. How did that opportunity arise before we even get to the special part of those investigations? What made you want to become a Navajo Ranger? Well, 1980, I actually was looking for a job. And at the chapter house, they said, there's an opening for a Navajo Ranger. Had no idea what it was.

I ended up applying. They gave me a ride to Window Rock, which is about 130 miles away from where I live. And I walked in and the director there asked me one question. How would you feel is somebody threatened your life? And I told him, well, I'll cut their ears off at 200 yards of the 300 Savage. And they said, you're hired. Next thing I know, I was in the police academy for six months. And so I kind of blundered into it and found out I was pretty good at it.

And here I am today, retired. Wow. That's quite an interview, if you ask me. That's pretty interesting. Stan, how about you? What made you want to become a Navajo Ranger? I think growing up in a rural setting in Oklahoma, me and a cousin of mine that was a couple of years older than me,

at the age of like 10 years old, nine years old. riding dirt bikes, motocross bikes, and playing cops and robbers, and watching really too much Starsky and Hutch and Swat. And so I was at the University of Arizona when I was contacted by the director of Parks and Recreation, an individual named Clarence Gorman. And he asked if I would come back and attend the police academy. And that's what I chose to do. So I became a Navajo Ranger. Interesting. Okay. And then, you know, eventually you guys would both meet and

start working together. However, I'd love if you could just paint a picture for us. Now, I know the Navajo territory that you covered as Rangers was vast. But what exactly is a Navajo Ranger for those who may not be aware of what the duties actually entail, you know, the areas that you covered? Either one of you, if you want to cover that, what exactly is a Navajo Ranger and what areas did you cover? Okay. So a Navajo Ranger is a very specialized law enforcement officer. What he does is he handles both renewable and non-renewable resource law enforcement. So we were trained and operated in the areas of fish and wildlife, forestry, parks and recreation areas. We would enforce the laws of those areas.

Minerals, mines, water resources. we were also tasked with handling search and rescue and technical rescue situations. And then we also did police work on the side when there were no police officers present or able to respond to something or if there was a life or death emergency. Interesting. All right, Stan, did you want to add anything to that? I thought it was a pretty good summation. Well, you know, what we did involving the paranormal was under a section called Special Projects. But within that Special Projects unit, there was a lot of other responsibilities such as special weapons and tactics callout, SWAT call out.

So he and I did that. I worked on a drug and gang task force under that section. We did dignitary protection. We took care of some really high profile and sensitive investigations and assignments and stuff like that. So it wasn't just what people perceive as just a paranormal section. It wasn't. It was kind of a broad spectrum of enforcement. Right.

I remember hearing you guys elaborate, you know, that the paranormal was maybe 1% of the work that you did out there. Obviously, for audiences like ours, of course, those are the investigations they want to hear about. But let's dive into that, I guess, that 1%. What was it like for both of you, personally, when you first got assigned to these cases. I mean, I can't imagine, you know, it was just another day at the office when you were told that you were now going to be going out in investigating ghosts, scripted, UFOs, skinwalkers, things like this. Jonathan, maybe we'll start with you. What was it like that first day when you learned you'd be

working on these quote unquote special investigations? Well, the, uh, the, the director had a, the chief ranger had a meeting with the entire department. And basically, there had been an investigation. And if you know these guys that went out there, two rookies, they were regular jokers. They would laugh and joke all day long and just have these little private jokes about, you know, around them. And they went up to a lady that lost. one of her sheep to a big foot.

And of course, they were laughing, joking, you know, horsing around. And she took an offense to that and thought they were laughing at her and chewed out our chief ranger. So he called everyone in, basically told us that these cases would be investigated professionally. And there would be reports written. Turned to me and Stan. And I like to tell everybody that we were voluntled. We didn't request it. We didn't raise our hands or anything.

And suddenly we were told that we would be getting the major cases involving paranormal stuff. And we just looked at each other and like, you know, wow. They didn't see that coming. Stan, what was it like for you personally when you learned that you now would be investigating these, quote-unquote, special paranormal cases? cases. One of the things was, is that up until the point that we were assigned to attend this department-wide meeting, it was just a normal day. It was just an everyday, a regular day.

But we did have a department-wide staff meeting. We were called into that meeting. And so heading up that special projects unit, one of the main reasons we were a part of that was that I think the chief ranger at that time, we weren't really close with him. We were probably the closest personnel working directly with the chief. and we had developed this relationship where he knew he could give me and John assignments. And regardless of how technical they were or how difficult they might be, that he could rely on me and John to handle it regardless. And that John and I think with him developed a reputation of dependability and reliability and

professionalism. So when we got assigned, it wasn't like John and I were over there raising our hands and saying, oh, we want to run this or whatever. That wasn't the case. It was simply that Chief had this assignment and he looked at us, and said you two are the ones that are going to manage these assignments or these cases investigations. So at first, you know, it was kind of like all of the other assignments we had received. It's yes, sir, and you did what you were told, you know.

But I don't think that we, you know, yes, John and I had had. our own personal experiences with what would be termed as supernatural or paranormal, even prior to those assignments. And even actually, there was cases we did that prior to that, that would have fallen under what would be termed as paranormal or supernatural. But so I think that kind of, it facilitated us. to get right into that and get busy investigating these things and stuff. Right.

For me, it was just one of those, another assignment, you know, that we're given. And so we were going to do it regardless of the nature of what it was. Right. That was actually going to be one of my questions for you guys. Were there ever instances where, you know, you went into a case to investigate and that you then it turned into a paranormal case. Like it wasn't, you weren't sent out to investigate someone who had a big foot sighting, but, you know, boom, all of a sudden you're in the middle of, you know,

a quote unquote conventional investigation of something else. And I don't know, a UFO zipped by or a, you know, a paranormal event occurred. Did that ever happen to you guys? Oh, and things like that would happen all the time. There are many, many cases where their paranormal would kind of peek at you, and you'd understand that, hey, there's something more going on here. And for the most part, you just kind of ignored it or let it be on the side,

did your report, tried to maintain as many, factual stuff as you could within the report. And it was just kind of, you know, it was understood. It was there. Interesting. So I guess let's start from the beginning when these cases were assigned to you guys. Do you remember the very first, quote unquote, paranormal case that you were assigned to any memories of what that was? and how it kind of led you down the path?

We got a case initially. What had happened was that this is one of the ones that showed up on the Netflix series. We had at least 30 people have sightings of Bigfoot right around that, Bloomfield, between Bloomfield and Shiprock along the San Juan River. And they were frightened. And the community had gone to the local police department and says, hey, we've got all these sightings of this Bigfoot. And the lieutenant came out and in front of everybody just laughed at them and it went, ha, ha, ha, ha, I wonder how much these people have had to drink.

And so they basically turned their backs on the police and said, you know, we don't, we want nothing to do with them. you guys, and they contacted the Rangers. We sent a six-man crew up there and spent three days and two nights, thoroughly investigating the case, getting statements from people along the river, and collecting hair evidence, foot track evidence, and things like that, and did determine that there was something going on. At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV. Then I heard

a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows and they were all free. The truth is ours. It's just so beautiful. On Pluto TV free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow the 100 NX files may cause excitement loss of sleep and sudden belief in extraterrestrials.

No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. Interesting. Stan, do you have anything to add to that? that first Bigfoot investigation you guys went on and, you know, was this something that you, you were familiar with before getting involved? And yeah, how'd you come out on the other side thinking about Bigfoot after that? That assignment that you're talking about that he's referring to up along the San Juan River, it really was the first where we're involving a number of Rangers assigned to an actual investigation

that was obviously within that realm of paranormal investigation. I don't think I actually witnessed what people referred to as a Bigfoot until later on in some other investigations where I actually witnessed what it is people refer to as a Bigfoot. Twice I'm having an experience where I've seen this either entity or this, you know, whether it's a creature or, but anyway. So prior to that, you know, to that particular assignment,

I really didn't have a whole lot of experience. in that but but um it did involve an entire team and it involved the planning uh for that assignment and the equipment that would be needed and uh um really uh put my eyes to to to how really how involved the entire community in that area was actually having witnessed this thing that people referred to as Bigfoot. So this is primarily a UFO podcast. So I know our listeners are going to want to hear from you guys about that. So, John, let's start with you. What is your most memorable, I guess, investigation that involved the mysteries in our skies?

Well, this, again, would be one of our cases. We refer to it as the old man case. In this incident, an elderly man was home by himself. This is the short version. There's other versions of it that go into much more detail. But we had this situation where this old man, His wife and daughter had gone to Phoenix. And so he was home by himself.

It's midnight or one in the morning. And he sees a light. And it looks like, to him it looked like a car coming up the road. It turned out that it was this craft that was flying, circled his house, and then landed up on the ridge behind him. He sees something come out of the craft out of the bottom. go down to a house maybe a half mile away, go back up to the craft and then come back toward his house.

His dog starts barking. It's a little blue healer pup. And, you know, it goes running out there barking. And he hears it, you know, yelp. And it comes running back to the house and curls up by the front doorstep and just lays there. Doesn't move. So now he's getting nervous and he goes inside. He's looking out the window on the seas what could be described as a gray alien,

four of them that have these little flashlights in their hands. He calls it flashlight, but it has a collimated beam about an inch and diameter. And different color beams of light, red, blue, yellow, and green, green. And they're shining it around like they're looking for something. Out around his house, he has all these solar lights, and they seem to be very fascinated by these lights. And as they approach them and gather around the light, the light slowly dims and goes out. They back up, they stand up again and back up, and the light comes back on again. And they would lean in again, and then the light would go out.

This happened several times. Finally, he decides he's in Navajo. There's no word for alien. So he's saying, what are these little children doing around my house? He says they were wearing these white skin tight suits, either white or light gray. And so he goes out to confront them. He says they had big heads and they had black eyes.

And as he turns the corner around the backside of the house, he tripped on the step and fell, broke his flashlight. And as he looked up, these things were hightailing it away. In later conversations, he describes them as being startled and having their hands up and waving them. and then, you know, getting away. So they get back to the ship, they take off. And he doesn't know what the result of that was.

Later on, we found out a couple of weeks later that that little dog had died. We didn't know about it at the time. Otherwise, we could have had it necropsyed. and we did a full investigation there with a federal court interpreter doing simultaneous translation for us. That's a really interesting case, a close encounter of the third kind, I would say, and very dramatic, if you ask me. And what I appreciate is, you know, you guys aren't just out there taking witness testimony. You're actually trying to find evidence, find proof of these things, which was, you know, shown in the the Unsolved Mysteries episode of testing a car where a UFO hovered above it and things like that.

So I found that really interesting. Stan, how about you, in terms of UFO investigations, anything really memorable stick out to you about UFO activity over the Navajo territory? One of the UFO experiences that John and I had, it hadn't started out as an actual paranormal. related case, it was a drowning, an individual had drowned somewhere in the San Juan River. And John and I had placed a boat in the water at Lake Powell and began traversing to the east along in the San Juan River. And so we got so far and it was getting late in a day. we came to a debris field where we couldn't go any further for fear of damaging the prop on the boat.

So we just pulled off. We decided we would camp for the rest of the day and evening. And so we set up camp. And that night, really clear sky. we were laying on our cots and I noticed an object that was coming from the west headed in the east direction. And this particular object was, it was kind of amber in color, and it was a little bit bigger than what you normally see with common satellites. and the really unusual thing about this particular object was that it was making a zigzag pattern as it moved to the east.

And so I got John's attention and we began watching it. As it got almost right directly above us at about the 12 o'clock position, we noticed following in line behind it was two military. craft and it turned out john was able to identify these as f-16 and he advised that they're you know they had their afterburners on which meant that they were pursuing this in an accelerated way so but a little bit a little bit later as we were watching this all of a sudden this zigzagging object accelerated to the east

and at a blinding speed I mean we were able to see the edge of the horizon from where we were at and this object went almost from the 12 noon position all the way to the horizon you know within like a second and a half

it was gone and it was, we watched it disappear. And it left the two F-16 fighters, you know, side-by-side trailing behind this, kind of like a child on a tricycle, because this thing, the capability and technology that would have been involved in this, for this object to accelerate to... We guesstimate somewhere in the name of, in the area of like 10,000 miles an hour.

And it was just unbelievable. And it left me and John in awe of watching this thing, what just played out right in front of us. And so again, like you had said earlier, you know, we set out on an investigation that ended up, ended up being something of a paranormal or UFO nature that, you know, we didn't, we, we, we, there was no expectation for that. It just happened right there in front of us and we were left in awe. Wow.

Yeah. Well, preparedness is, you know, a word that I assume comes up a lot before you go into an investigation of any kind. And I'd love to touch on that with you guys before we move to some listener questions here. How do you mentally, physically, I guess even emotionally prepare to go into an investigation where you have no idea what's going to happen, whether it's paranormal or not? Do you both have any personal routines or practices or anything to prepare you for these types of investigations? John, let's start with you. Well, for me, you can have preconceived ideas. A great man once said that can you look at a situation without naming it.

naming it, making it a word causes fear. So you don't name it. You go in without a preconceived idea of what you're going to see or experience. And you go in with the idea that you're going to do the job. In my work, I was a licensed EMT as a uniformed officer. and I would see horrific injuries and amputations and people dead and actually dying. And I found out that if you stop and let that overtake you, you're no good to anybody. And so you just have to do the job and get to the point where you're going to be their best hope of survival.

And in the paranormal cases, you do something similar. You don't show that fear, you know, like you see on TV today, you see these guys, you know, oh my God, oh my God. And they start running around. And the panic overtakes them. We never did that. And, you know, we just went into it and said whatever happens will happen. I know Stan has had a personal experience with a Skinwalker, and I know you've actually been to Skin Walker Ranch. So I'd love to get your opinion on that whole aspect of a lot of this phenomena.

Is this something you've pursued in your own investigations? And what do you make of these areas, I guess, these condensed areas of high strangen? whether it's Skinwalker Ranch or the areas that you and Stan investigated. What do you make of the entire Skinwalker phenomenon? Well, the Skinwalker phenomenon is basically worldwide. You have incidences of shape changers in Australia and Africa in Europe and Indonesia. You know, just all over the whole world. other Indian tribes have similar versions.

And interestingly enough, a lot of them, the information is very consistent, you know, telling you that you shouldn't be out in the dark whistling because it attracts these things. They show up as like the windigo, the rake. they can show up as different types of creatures. But they're all very similar in that a person can shape change. In our discussions of this and talking about it, we've actually had military people show up with clipboards, taking notes. And so now we give them a shout out because Indian tribes are not very trusting of the military.

But we speculate that the government is interested in this idea because what if you had a soldier who could shape change into an animal and go behind enemy lines and create havoc back there. The one thing that I would caution people about is that in the case of, and I'm only speaking about the Navajo Skinwalker, they can actually be dangerous. They are not an avatar. They are not a spirit form of something sent out to do the bidding. They are real people that have basically learned how to do this. And they can poison you and they can injure you rather severely or make you so sick that you won't be able to function for a year and a half,

as in one case that we had. So we cautioned people and even film crews that come out that if they want to go look for skin walkers, we're done. We're going to call it. And because we have seen what they can do. They can be killed also. That's one thing that we did find out over a period of time, and I've known it for a long time, that people have actually shot them.

And some of them have died. And in fact, in 1977, one was killed in Chin Lee. And, you know, somebody knocked on the door. The guy opened it up and got an axe in the head. The FBI arrested two individuals. And they said, well, you know, in trial, they said, if it wasn't us, you know, we were designated by the community to go do this. And, you know, we did our job. If it wasn't us, it would have been

somebody else. And they were actually acquitted in federal court of homicide. Wow. That's crazy. Oh, that one left me speechless. Wow. Well, I mean, what do you think, John, actually being on skin, Walker Ranch. I mean, you know, a lot of people are very critical of the work being done there. You know, they're being told not to dig and, you know, to not upset the land there to do their scientific investigations and whatnot. Having been there, having sort of been at the center of all of that, what do you make of Skinwalker Ranch? And do you think they should continue to try to investigate there and figure out what's going on.

The Summer in the Sky's podcast is free to listen to every week. But if you would like to help support the show, we have a very active Patreon page where you give what you think the show is worth. In return, you'll get early access to the main show, bonus episodes, and priority to ask our guests your listener questions. Your support truly makes the show continue and grow. So to learn more and to join, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Well, there's definitely something going on there.

There is high strangeness. There is an energy source that's showed itself. There's a frequency showing 1.6 gigahertz. And it's my understanding that this frequency is only used by NASA for communication with spacecraft that we launch. So there's a lot going on. UFOs show up over there. Cryptids show up. Bigfoot shows up.

And we have areas on our reservation here that are very, very similar, that people avoid and stay away from. There's areas down in Sedona. They call them Vortex, but they're very similar in energy profiles. And so we've seen a lot of the same things up here. We just don't advertise it or talk about it. But there are a lot of them. Dulcy is another one on the Hickorya Reservation that has a lot of strangeness.

So we think that there's these nodules, so to speak, all around the United States, places that are probably either inaccessible or avoided by a lot of people because of these strange things that go on. Skinwalker Ranch, the Nids team that was there prior under Bob Bigelow, the information that they gathered is still considered classified even today. and so the team that's up there now had to start, you know, all over from the ground up. And they were told when the ranch was sold to them not to dig because they found out that if you started digging, things would happen. It would provoke a response. And they've seen that up at Skinwalker Ranch with Thomas being injured and having to go to the hospital.

we saw Travis Taylor get injured when he stuck his head over a hole and got his face irradiated with irradiation. So there's lots of danger there. For me, it doesn't really bother me. I go through my protection regimen before going there and, you know, every day afterwards. just to keep myself protected. And I've been on the ranch, but I haven't been injured. And, you know, I'm happy with that. Yeah, fingers, fingers crossed, it stays that way.

Well, in terms of all of the cases, John, you've looked at throughout the years in relation to the paranormal, supernatural, euphological, even, Do you have a favorite case or one that you continue to chase until today or most memorable, all wrapped into one? Is there any case that truly personifies that for you? Well, there is a case, and it's a little bit out of the way, but I'll go ahead and tell it because there's some point to it. Okay. there was a lady that contacted our department. And she said that, well, she's what we classify in law enforcement as EDP,

which is an emotionally disturbed person. So they're having some issues mentally. And she had contacted the city police, the state police, the county, the Navajo police, everybody told her that, you know, we don't handle that or, you know. And what she was saying was that Skinwalkers were coming around her house

and trying to drive her off her land. So she contacted our department and me and Stan says, okay, we'll go out there and meet with her. She had inherited this land from her mother who had passed away and had spent all her life in different states. She was taking a whole regimen of drugs.

And so we started looking at this, and she showed us some little tiny bundles of feathers and leather that had been left out near her house and said that things were coming around scratching at the side of the house and things like that. We found tracks. and we started to track it. In tracking these tracks, and both me and Stan are very good trackers.

We found at least six individuals that had come up from a trail behind her house. And they had... You could see where they stood around in a little circle and talked with each other. what we determined was that these were local town drunks that had she had a little hog on that had no windows and no door and they were using this as a crash pad for themselves and when she came to take over the property again started living there they tried to drive her out by imitating Skinwalker activity and she was genuinely frightened So as a result of that, we told her these are not skinwalkers. These are local drunks.

They're trying to chase you away from your land. And, you know, so it's not definitely not skinwalker activity, although they tried to make it look like it. We didn't hear anything more. She was very thankful. A month later, our dispatcher got a call. And this lady is on the line again. She is crying on the phone.

And she said, thank you, thank you, thank you. I've gotten my house fixed up and I'm living there and I have no more issues going on. And I just wanted to call you and thank you for, you know, for listening to me. And what me and Stan have found out is that it's about helping people. that maybe nobody else wants to take a look at this issue. We had an old grandma up and Dulcy when we spoke up there, come up to us, and she had tears, you know, in her eyes. And she was explaining that as a little girl,

she had orbs and UFOs come around her. And she had never told anybody in the family. the kids, the grandkids, the great-grandkids all had their jaws down on the floor because nobody had ever heard her talk about this. And she thanked us for talking about these subjects and bringing it out because it actually helped her tell her story to her family. So it's really all about if we can to try to help people. Let's wrap up actually.

I've got two listener questions for you, if you don't mind. We have our first one here from Metal Matt. He's one of our Patreon subscribers. And he wants to know, do you and Stan have any plans of writing a book about your experiences? Yeah, quick answer. Stan is currently working on his book and has a publisher and an agent and everything else. My book is about one-third away through, but it's 47 chapters, so there's a lot to write. And it's an uphill thing.

I know the vice president of Harper Collins publishing had contacted John, and he showed that he was excited and very interested in publishing both John and my books. And so when John let me know that, I did jump on that. John and I had already been writing to put together individual books, going way back to when we were working as Rangers. I think once we really got into doing these kind of investigations, that it was interesting to us. I mean, and it still is today. where we a big part of what we do in the investigation is the fact that we're curious there's a curiosity and and wanting to learn more about the unknown and so when that opportunity presented itself um for me you know after john let me know on it i jump right on it and and uh things did seem to roll really

quickly with it. And so yeah, there's a, we both will be, uh, working to get our books out. Um, so.

Awesome. Oh, I'm looking forward to that for sure. Um, well, I guess, you know, kind of playing off of that,

uh, Lisette over on YouTube wants to know. Uh, were there any cases that you guys covered on unsolved mysteries that didn't actually make it on, onto the show that you wish had or any cases that you wish they had actually covered. You know, I mean, what we got on the show was incredible. But any cases you really wish they had gone after or possibly got left on the editing floor, as they call it?

I don't think in what we filmed there was anything that was left on the cutting room floor. I think everything that we set out and we actually filmed was included. the challenge is that for a given episode there's only so much room to be able to fit things in and but me and John you know we've discussed this

among ourselves in length there's so many cases and events and incidents that that we've never even, we've never even shared with the public to date. I mean,

I have, I have incidents that involving a doppelganger, an incident where mass livestock were killed in an unusual manner. And, you know, so many different things. I know John has the same. And so there are still so much more, and even personal experiences with the paranormal that's still going on to this very day.

So there's so much more that we have to be able to bring to the surface and bring to the public. So, yeah. Interesting. John, did you want to add anything to that? Oh, boy, they said that when we finished filming, that they had enough actually for two episodes, but they could only put one episode down.

One of the things that we're very adamant about, because we had done shows with other production companies, and they says, oh, you know, we want to tell your story. and what happens is they kind of made it a mish-mash of different stories all put together to make it sound more interesting. And we told this company that we weren't going to do that. If they would tell our story correctly, that we would work with them. And, you know, they did. I've got to hand it to them. They came out, you know, it was great.

They actually were very careful about making sure that every little detail was correct, and we were happy with the result that we saw. I think one of the things that we've made clear up front is that we're not going to fabricate things, you know, that didn't happen. we're not going to exaggerate or, you know, sensationalize these cases that we're involved in. I mean, him and I were not against creating a work of fiction that would be based on some of these experiences. I think there's room for that in a motion picture or whatever. But in what we're sharing either with our presentations or something like Unsolved Mysteries, you know, we're going to stick to what happened.

And we've been very adamant about that. We're not going to, we're not going to, John and I aren't these people that go in these investigations that are jumping and running. you know, oh my God. We're not, we don't do that. We don't do that and never have done that. And we've stuck to the fact that we are investigators. We were sworn at the time, you know, and we're not going to fabricate and make up things and lie about things,

you know. And I think that's probably one of the things that maybe sets us, apart with some things that you see out there is that we were sworn officers and this was our assignment and we had a duty to help people and we still carried that part of it as far as you know in the investigations we still do to this day not as law enforcement but we're trying to help people bottom line people that are people that want help and that There's nobody there to help them. So, yeah.

Right. Well, yeah, that was going to be my last question. You know, I know you're both retired now from the Rangers. However, you know, you've made, you've made, I would imagine, very strong bonds with these people who've had highly anomalous experiences that you would go on to, you know, become a part of and investigate and find some. find some closure for these people. So that was going to be kind of my last question. Do the investigations continue? And, you know, what is that like? You know, coming out on the other side, not having to speak for the Rangers any longer, but speaking for yourselves on a lot of this stuff. Yeah, that's my long-winded way of asking, do the investigations continue? John, let's start with you.

Well, the investigations have on a case-by-case basis continued. We do get requests, and unfortunately, we don't get paid for any of these. We're doing it on our own time, so to speak, and it can run into quite a bit of money. As you know, just gassing up your truck, you know, to get somewhere can cost a lot. lot now. So it's not that we don't want to do some of these things. It's that in some cases, we just can't go and do them. People also ask us, and I need to put this in here, they ask us, how can I protect myself? And an alien con, I had a person asked me, you know, should I start smudging? Should I start using sage?

This was a non-Indian that was asking this from the audience. And my answer to them was that go back into the history of your culture and find out what they did to ward off evil. And then use those things with intent, the intent of your mind, that this is going to protect you. And make it your own. Don't just copy Native Americans as to what they do. do. And I had a lot of Native Americans afterwards come up to me and thank me for making that

statement because a lot of people are just adopting or assimilating. Yeah, assimilating what natives do. And, you know, that it really, if you just go through the motions, it doesn't have anything to it. It relies on the intent of the person. Thank you. Thank you for clarifying that. Stan, do you have anything to add to that in terms of the continued investigations and kind of trying to continue to help these people after, you know, the initial events happened? I think one of the things is that that's a part of John, John's personality and my personality to help when people are in need. people are around a certain need. And so when it comes to the paranormal or supernatural,

for the most part, you can't run to the local police department because you're going to end up getting turned away just as what John conveyed with some of the previous cases that happened on the Naval Reservation. And the unique thing with that is our chief at the time was very adamant that you took an oath

and you may not understand these cases you may not believe in whatever it is that's being presented but you're going to be there to help people that's what you signed on to do to help people and protect people and we did that

but that's also a part of John's personality and my personality you know, for the most part, when people are experiencing, whether it's a Bigfoot case or a haunting case, or, you know, they're reaching out for help. And in our experience, most of those individuals, they're traumatized. They're going through some type of trauma. Whether it's a 10-year-old girl being chased by a Bigfoot, you know, after she dropped off. you know, at the school bus stop or, you know, things like that. These individuals are traumatized.

And, you know, whether it's an elderly woman that's, you know, being victimized and her property being taken by an entity or whatever, these people are needing help. But they're, in reality, there is no paranormal police. out there to try to come to the rescue. And I guess that's, in a sense, that's what Yon and I have tried to fulfill is to be there for the people that need help. Anyway. I love that.

Yeah. Well, they were damn lucky to have you guys. I'll kind of leave it at that to have such empathetic individuals willing to work with experiencers. You know, because like you said, It's very hard. And people struggle with these things, no matter what they are. Aliens, ghosts, cryptids, you know, it's not easy.

It's becoming a little easier, I think, for people who've seen UFOs. I mean, UFOs seem to be in the mainstream now more than ever and widely accepted in some ways. But for the other stuff, I can imagine it's still very isolating and alienating to talk about these things. No, I, you know, from, I've seen a UFO, so I guess I'm kind of an experiencer. So I have to thank you guys for being open and willing to do stuff like that. But to kind of close things out here in terms of continuing contact in the desert, June 2nd through the 4th is going to be taking place. And you guys are going to be speaking at that. So would you mind giving us a little tease of maybe what you'll be talking about?

if you know yet when you'll be presenting anything like that, whichever one of you would like to take that. Go ahead, John. Okay, I'm looking at my brains here. On my phone, I have the, okay, we're going to be presenting a workshop first. And this will be June 2nd on Friday, 7.30 to 9.15 p.m. at the resort there. The workshop is going to be called the paranormal

Rangers, the Native American approach and with a question and answer. And this is going to be a much more intimate conversation as to some of the cultural aspects behind what we do. and then we're going to sit down with the audience and be able to take questions and answers. The other one is going to be on Sunday, June 4th at 1035 to 1220. And this will be in the main auditorium and it says the title is Mysterious Discoveries of the Paranormal Navajo Rangers. So this one will be our standard presentation with lots and lots of pictures to put up on the screen. Oh, cool. I'm definitely jealous.

I won't be able to make that. But I've seen you guys present before. It's quite a sight to behold. And seeing the images from these investigations, I think, just lend so much credence to them as well. So, I definitely. and make it to contact in the desert. Yes, please, Stan. There are a number of other events that both John and I are participating in this year.

Would you mind if he elaborates on some of those days? Oh, absolutely. Please. Okay, back to my brain. I'm at the point now where I have to write everything down. otherwise I just forget it. I'm the same way. Okay, so after contact in the desert on June 10th through the 11th,

I'll be at the Bigfoot Expo in Fairbanks, Alaska. That'll just be me. And after that, we'll both be at, on June 30th, we'll both be at the Rosswell Incident speaking. And we have some stuff coming up. in September in Colorado, around the middle of September, where we'll be speaking at the Bigfoot Outpost and for Denver Mufon. So there's a lot of things that are still going on.

And I would like to say at this point that one of the reasons Stan hasn't been with me on a lot of these talks is that he just retired a week ago. Oh, wow. still working at the time. So he did 30 years in law enforcement and finally, you know, survived it and got out. But in the time he was there, it was kind of an unspoken thing. We don't want you to go out and do all these UFO crypted paranormal stuff because he was doing investigations. So, you know, he's, the dogs have been released now. So he's available. Congratulations.

Yeah. Thank you. That's exciting. I know. Just when you thought you were ready to rest, Stan, you're going to be traveling the world speaking about this stuff for the foreseeable future. That's fine. That's amazing. Well, I have to thank you guys for giving me your time.

tonight sharing those stories with us. But I do kind of want to just give these last moments to both of you. Any last words you want to give to our audience here, just about, you know, this weird world we live in, where it's heading and how all of this paranormal stuff plays into it. Yeah, any last words you want to leave our viewers and listeners with? Stan, let's start with you. One of the things really,

that I want to try to get across and convey is that if you've had these kind of experiences, if you're a family member, if a family member has an experience, whether it's Bigfoot or UFOs or a haunting

related activity, you know, really, first of all, you're not crazy. There are, you'd be hard-pressed to probably try to reach out and find an individual family that has not had a family member

that has some type of paranormal experience, whether it's UFOs, Bigfoot, or, you know, things involving witchcraft. So globally, if you look, you'd be hard-pressed to try to find any family that hasn't had some type of experience. however small or however, you know, really large or overpressing. So you're not crazy.

People have these experiences. And yeah, you're not alone. So I'll let John. Thank you. Okay. For me, one of the things as a criminal investigator, is that we're constantly looking for answers. We're not satisfied with just, you know,

oh, the case is done, okay, throw it in the back of the file cabinet and forget about it. We're looking for answers. We want to know. We found out as far back as 2009, we started coming up with a theory that all of these things, UFOs, Bigfoot, cryptids, even skinwalkers, were all related somehow,

that there had to be something common, linking them all together. And what we found out was this idea of string theory and parallel dimensions had a lot to do with it. We've got UFOs popping into existence with a definite pop that the sound goes right through your body. and then they fade out. We've had Bigfoot appear,

and when he's appeared, and we got more cases involved in Bigfoot cases, we saw a corresponding increase in UFO traffic, and we've seen them linked together numerous times that they were seen in the presence of UFOs. And we've tracked Bigfoot, and he's disappeared. If he had taken a number of, other step he would have left the track and backtracked him to the point where he his footprints appear.

So we think that they're coming in from a parallel dimension through a dimensional gate somehow. And they might be able to manipulate these things, whether accidental or on purpose, there's definitely something here that they're interested in. Same with hauntings. So, you know, we start talking about. this in 2011 in presenting. And since then, the industry, the TV industry, now you turn, tune in and you hear a lot about parallel dimensions and the government's even trying to figure out how to access and use dimensional

gates and faster than light travel. So, yeah, I think we're ahead of the, ahead of the curve now. Yeah. Well, let's add psychic abilities too because that was actually a question I forgot to ask you guys. Is this all somehow connected? So thanks, John. You precognitively answered that for me. So thank you. Thank you. Well, we knew you were going to ask that. Exactly. It's got to come up at some point in these conversations. But no, I've kept you gentlemen longer than I told you. So we're going to say good night for tonight. But once again, guys, please go, if you can, to contact in the desert. That is June 2nd through the 4th.

And also check out the other events that John. And eventually, Stan will be speaking at as well. Yes. Again, I briefly met you guys almost, oh gosh, almost a decade ago at this point. And it was an honor and pleasure to see you speak then. And it was an honor and pleasure. to have you on Somewhere in the Skies tonight as well. So thank you very much.

Thank you and thank you to your audience. Yeah. Thank you guys for having us. We hope to see you out there somewhere. Somewhere in the skies. There you go. Exactly.