Somewhere in the Skies - The Phantom Lights: UAPs of the Forest (w/ Tyler Hall and Ron Murphy)

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

On episode 382, we welcome author, Ron Murphy, and filmmaker, Tyler Hall. Murphy is the author of Lights in the Mist. Hall is the director and creator of the documentary, Phantom Lights: UAPs in the Forest. Together, they have combined their research efforts into an exploration of phantom light phenomena. Are these sentient energies that are part of the Earth itself? Are they lost souls trapped here? Or are they extraterrestrial visitors? Using the back drop of the enigmatic Chestnut Ridge in the Appalachian Mountains, Hall and Murphy share with us their experiences with these lights themselves, the many theories brought forward, and what their research has taught them both in the making of their respective projects with Small Town Monsters. WATCH Phantom Lights: UAPs of the Forest for free at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHAIaPmE9cw&t=14s&ab_channel=SmallTownMonsters READ Lights in the Mist at: https://www.smalltownmonsters.com/shop/lightsinthemist Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ PayPal: [e-mail] Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Store: http://tee.pub/lic/ULZAy7IY12U YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/somewhereskies/videos Order Ryan’s new book: https://a.co/d/4KNQnM4 Order Ryan’s older book: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Produced by LIONSGATE Copyright © 2024. Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Terms apply. Today on the show, we welcome Ron Murphy, author of the new book, Lights in the Mist. We also welcome filmmaker Tyler Hall, director of the new documentary Phantom Lights, UAPs of the Forest. Together, they have researched the enigmatic topic of Phantom Lights, which culminated in these two multimedia projects brought together by Small Town Monsters. Here is our interview with Ron Murphy and Tyler Hall. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome everyone to Somewhere in the Skies and a huge welcome, I believe for the first time, to both of our guests here today. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can see them.

You will be hearing their voices throughout this entire interview and I could not be more excited for that. So, welcome for the very first time, Ron Murphy, Tyler Hall, to Somewhere in the Skies, guys. It's a pleasure being here, my friend, thank you. Thanks for having us. both of you have come out with separate projects that have sort of morphed into this bigger look at the Phantom Light phenomenon. Now, Tyler, you just came out with your film, and I want to get the title right here, Phantom Lights, UAPs of the Forest. And Ron, you came out with your book, Lights in the Mist. And I'd love to know sort of how did this come together.

Now, we know that you guys are working directly with small town monsters on this, who I have a huge love for all of their work. I've worked with them on several occasions. But whoever wants to take this first, how did the, I guess the interest spawn for both of you with the Phantom Light phenomenon? And how did it culminate into these two projects? Yeah, whoever wants to take that first. Sure. The book came first before the film, so I think Ron should kind of take the reins, if you'd like, brother. Yeah, I'll give a quick backdrop, background.

So I was working on a project with small-time monsters entitled, Sasquatch on Earth, the Ridge, which was taking place on the Chestnut Ridge here in western Pennsylvania. And it was during a big foot investigation that we started to encounter a lot of very strange things. The first thing that we were hearing is probably it sounded like wind chimes. It was some sort of melodic tinkling going on in the woods. We had no idea what to make of it. And then immediately following these sounds were the manifestations of these earthlights, you know. And if you're in Europe, you're probably fairy lights or spook lights or what have you.

They go by different names around the world, but they're ubiquitous. They're part of, you know, the human imagination of the human culture. They're seeing, you know, Australia and everywhere. I mean, so that's what led me down this path because I had no idea what I was seeing. Reporters and researchers have discussed seeing these lights out in the woods. And I've seen them before on this particular event, but never to this degree. It was as if we were encountering some sort of intelligent energy within the landscape. And in order to get closer to what I witnessed, I decided to start researching and writing a book about this to see if it would make any sense to myself.

And then after I wrote the book, I sent it over to Small Town Monsters and asked that they would think about publishing it. And I guess that was the start of this whole big snowball. Interesting, Ron. Okay. So, Tyler, that's clearly where you come in, man. So maybe tell us a little about your experience with small town monsters and how the dock came about, if you don't mind. Yeah, for sure. So I was working in the law enforcement field here in Virginia when Seth and I had kind of been in talks about a part-time job here and there and getting me to get out of that career field.

And then I finally came on to the company in 2023. It's like a part-time role. and then I got a full-time position just here in July of 2024. And so with one of my first projects, Seth asked, hey, would you do a film on UAPs, a film on these spook lights? And Seth had mentioned that Ron was writing a book, and the film was going to be a direct companion piece to Ron's book, Lights in the Mist.

And so I read Ron's book, got a better understanding on what these things actually are. At first, I didn't really know. You'll hear that in the film. I'm like, I didn't really know what these things were. And I kind of always thought of them as just UFOs. And then it was like, oh, no, wait, there's a big distinction on what this phenomena is outside of just UFOs. And that really caught my attention, especially the regional significance of this phenomenon with Chestnut Ridge. I'm just four hours south of Ron here in Virginia.

so in the Chestnut Ridge and I grew up with coal mining history and ancestry within my family. So I was like, this is a perfect movie for me. One, these things are super interesting. Two, the Chestnut Ridge region is all about coal mining history. And I'm like in the steel industry of Pittsburgh. And I'm like, this is super cool. My girlfriend's from Pennsylvania. I'm like, man, this couldn't be a better fit for me for my first project.

So I just dove right into it And Ron was a huge help in making this thing even possible Because I did not know what direction I wanted to take it into Until I really spoke with him and interviewed him Then I'm like, I know kind of what I want to do with this project now Interesting. Yeah, it's right in your backyard Yeah, sorry Ron, go ahead Well, they're definitely stand-alone projects as well too

So I want to make that abundantly clear So the book that I wrote was kind of like a historical overview with some of my research, some of my experiences in that book. But Tyler took it to almost an homage to the area. And I'm very proud to be part of that film because I think it really, it reminds you a lot of small-time monsters, but it's also one of these products that probably you can put on PBS as well too. So even if you weren't into the unexplained or the paranormal,

you could still come back from watching this film understanding the area in which he pays homage to in that film. Interesting, right. And, you know, that's what Small Town Monsters does so well. It covers the history of a specific region, the phenomena occurring there, kind of the cultural angle as well of how that phenomena affects the town or the region

or the city that it takes place in. But then, Ron, you sort of, take it as a global phenomenon and the different ways that different cultures perceive what we'll dive into, which is the phantom lights, spook lights. What I know, and Tyler probably knows, as looking at these as UAPs, the foo fighter phenomenon from early World War II as well. So there's so many different ways to attack this, I don't want to say one phenomenon because I think we are dealing with phenomena here. But yeah, that's why I thought it was pretty cool that, like, your project, Ron, started with the phenomenon overall. And then Tyler kind of put the microscope on it in this one region of the Chestnut Ridge, which we will get to, like, all the different types of high strangeness that happens in the Chestnut Ridge, for sure.

But I guess I'd love to know before we get into what are the Phantom Lights, something we will continue to ponder. Do either of you have experience with these lights? You know, for me, the reason I got into UFOs is because, like many, I saw a UFO. But had either of you had experience with witnessing these types of phenomena before either of your projects? Ron, go ahead. Back in about 2002, I was, again, investigating nothing that had to do with phantom lights whatsoever. And I noticed that there was something atmospheric. going around.

It looked as if there was a static electricity in the air. Like whenever you pull a blanket off of a bed in the wintertime and you see those sparks, that's what was going on in the environment around us. And the other investigative involved, we thought, you know, we need to get out of here. And as we turn

to leave the area, this light kind of flickered on. I mean, it went up to a brightness and then it just faded away. So the whole incident may have only took I don't know, three to five seconds. Very, very brief. But that was the first time that I've ever encountered anything like that.

And it wasn't until I was doing the Small Town Monsters Project on the Chestnut Ridge that we started to interact with these things. Let's put it this way. These things started to interact with us. It was as if they were evaluating us. So we were the investigators, but before the evening ended, we were the ones that I feel a whole whole hard. that we were the ones that were being investigated. We were in a place that simply didn't belong to us. You know, you talk about liminal areas and things of that nature.

We had stepped into a liminal zone, and once you were there, you become the stranger, right? So now we were kind of trespassing into their world. we've seen lights of various different hues and sizes as well but it was as if they were trying to interact with us in some way and the other curious thing about this too is that you can view this for absolutely free on YouTube you can go to small time monsters Sasquatch Uncovered Sasquatch on Earth the Ridge

and go to episode two which is spectral Bigfoot and all this stuff is actually recorded. So it's not like you have to take my word for it. There is evidence out there, you know, video evidence. So I urge anybody to check it out and make up their own mind. Because even now I have no idea what the nature of these things are. You guys have made great points earlier on whenever you said about, you know, this particular region. So from a cultural point of view, a certain culture is going to view these things.

things in their own mindset and in their own vernacular, right? So what people are seeing in a coal mining community is going to be far different what people are going to see in an Aboriginal situation in Australia, say, right? Or people that are in England that have such a great lineage of fairings, they would see it in a different light as well too. So it's, like I said earlier, it's ubiquitous, it's part of human culture, but how it's interpreted is what makes it so utterly unique. Choice hotels get you more of what you value.

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Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Well, I hope you like my little song, book direct at Shoreshiltails.com. Right. Well, I guess to kind of go from there, Tyler, I love your thoughts. Getting a bit more hyper-local with it, like we said, with the ridge. What role does coal mining play in all of this? What role do you think it plays within the phenomena of fantasy rights, specifically in that region if you don't know yet?

But like Ron mentioned, I think it's the way that people perceive this phenomenon. And so without saying like this is directly because of coal mining, you know, I don't want to say that. I don't believe that. It's just it was an interesting cultural or folklore approach to the phenomenon on the Chessner Ridge. I said, well, maybe let's take a step back. This could possibly be tied together. I just wanted to ask that question rather than say like, okay, this is caused by, or the phenomena is caused by coal mining or steel oppression. It was more like, okay, this is a tapestry into this phenomena.

But I guess to answer your question, it's coal mining and steel industry is a huge part of that region. And I think we have to ask ourselves, does the UFO phenomena, Bigfoot phenomena, phantom light phenomena, can, that play a role in this in the supernatural. So like I said, not saying that it does, it's just something that's interesting. It is, you know, a large piece of the cultural fabric of that area. But with me, it's like I just,

I wanted to pay tribute to those people, to the Appalachian people. And that was the best way I thought I could do that while also making a movie on orbs, you know. Right. Well, one of my favorite parts about all this is the different theories that you both pose, both in the dock and in the book run. And, you know, living in Scotland, which is everywhere. Not only is everything haunted, but there's like a very rich history of witchery, witchcraft here in the UK. And this is something that you guys bring up, both in the book and the dock. is witches.

And that really caught my attention. So what are the theories about how witches could somehow be connected to all of this? Ron, maybe if you want to take that first? So the first place that I've ever witnessed an Earthlight during that Bigfoot investigation was an area in Pennsylvania that a part of the folklore in that area, that there was a witch that was killed in the 1780s. when the date of this happening. So, you know, this is an area of the Scotch Irish.

So you said about Scotland have all kinds of witches. And absolutely they do. And it's interesting that the last witch that was burned at the stake actually happened in Scotland in 1727. So it's very possible in the 1780s that somebody who was down in this particular area may have seen the witch being burned or at least their parents are very, Grandparents, somebody would have known about it, right? So, you know, up in New England area, you know, there was really no reported which burned at the

state in the United States. You know, they were hanged up in Massachusetts. But the thing is, though, if a group of people got together and kind of excommunicated to which permanently by burning them to the state, this is not going to make headlines, right? Nobody's going to be broadcasting this. This will be something that would be very internal within the community itself. And I think it's a plausible explanation for why some people saw these earthlights as an emanation of the burning of the witch, some sort of forest fire, you know, foxfire, whatever have you.

So that was one of the explanations that was touted why these earthlights exist in this particular area. There was a witch that was burned at the stake in the late 1800s. I think whenever we delve so deeply into a phenomenon that doesn't have any kind of readily explainable explanation in the scientific realm, you have to go with a paranormal. And what better paranormal, you know, person is you have than a witch, right? And I think that that was the thing that I wanted to do is I wanted to bring in the folklore that in this particular area, some people did blame these. encounters on witchcraft. Interesting. Tyler, what are your thoughts on witches and how they might be connected to all this?

Sure. So I was hearing this real time, filming Ron while walking backwards for about an hour because he spoke about all the local legends of this area that we were at in the Chestnut Ridge, which was just right down the road from his house. And so he knows these legends and these folklore like the back of his hand. So I'm walking backwards trying to film Ron and listen to it. at the same time. And I'm hearing all these different stories and theories.

And it tickled me to death. I just thought that like, what a better, what a better, yeah, I didn't have to pay for this ghost tour essentially, you know? It's like, Ron is just giving me this incredible ghost tour. It was a little rough, you know, having to walk backwards and stuff. But I'm like, what do I do with all this information? And so when I got back to edit this thing, it's like, we have to mention this witch because pagan history with the Scotch Irish and the Celts is huge.

And this area is a mass immigration of the Scotch Irish. And a lot of those people worked in the coal mines that are just right around the corner from where this witch was allegedly burned or hung. So it's like, we have to mention this. And I thought it was a connection there. So whether or not the witch is creating org light phenomenon, I don't know, It's very interesting. I think we have to mention these stories. Absolutely.

You know, and in my UFO research, moving away from witches and I guess a little to those pesky things in our skies, there are many cases where these lights or these phantom lights have been witnessed in relation to Bigfoot light creatures. I love to tackle that next with you guys. I mean, we have the famous case, you know, I believe it was around the Chestnut Ridge, where, you know, the UFO came down and the creatures came out, if I'm not mistaken. But I even dug into some old project Blue Book files where UFOs were cited with Bigfoot creatures running out of the woods and following the lights even. It's crazy. So I guess that's kind of what I want to tackle with you guys next.

What role do you think Bigfoot or Chris? like creatures could play, or do they have any connection to these phantomites? Yeah. The further I get into this, that's a question that I ask myself a lot. You know, but if you would have asked me this four or five years ago, I would have said, no way, you're crazy. And I would have just like, you know, I would entertain that conversation, but I'd have been like, at the end of the day, I don't believe that. Now that I'm getting further into this, I think that it is a possibility and we have to look at it seriously. I have a personal experience that down in Glengene, West Virginia,

and New River area, West Virginia, where we were having Bigfoot activity, and all of a sudden, a light manifested. And this is after the filming of Phantom Lights, and it was a giant orb of light that illuminated a fern while we're having Bigfoot activity and vocalization. So it's like, that's when I'm like,

nothing makes sense right now. Like, none of this makes sense. Why are we seeing orb lights with Bigfoot after I just filmed this Phantom Lights, movie. Very strange. So yeah, you have to, you've got to open your mind a little bit and at least entertain the idea that these things could be connected. I mean, look at Kexburg.

You know, you got Kexburg right down the road from where we're seeing these orbites. Uniontown had hundreds of UFO sightings. If you just go west into Ohio, you have the night siege story with Bigfoot and UFOs and shadow people running around in northern Ohio. So it's just a hub of activity there, and it's all strange, and there is a lot of bigfoot activity. So. Right, right.

And getting back to what Ryan had said, so this is a case happened, I believe it was in 1975, in Uniontown, which is directly on the Chestnut Ridge, and these folks saw these bigfoot out on the field. There was two of them, and one of them was making the sound of a baby crying, and it was actually holding an orb in its hands, right? That was the thing. And a UFO comes and it lands somewhere in the field behind some trees. And it seemed as if that orb was the connection, the conduit, between the Bigfoot and the

UFOs. And whenever the police arrived on the scene, there was no Bigfoot and there was no UFO around, but apparently there was an impression in the grass that threw so much light off of the impression that you could read a newspaper from it. So something very strange was going on. And again, that link is the idea that there's a lights anomaly attached with it as well, too. And so you made a good point, too, Ryan, about if you're a big, if you were a UFO investigator, what Tyler and I witnessed, we would say, you know, this could have been an extraterrestrial visitation of some kind, right?

Or if you were a ghost investigator, you say these are orbs, these are disembodied spirits. you know and I always point out too if this was a religious site you can say that this was an angelic occurrence as well too so these things mean many things to many different people and it's really in the way that you interpret them so I guess if I could say anything um orbs in the world of the paranormal is a language in and of itself and in order to understand what they are you have to speak the language of that particular person viewing these things So what Tyler did in his movie, he spoke the language of the coal miners in a particular region. And within their language, that is what we were seeing.

We were seeing something from the earth itself. These people work within the earth. And there was a very long tradition of coal mining and these lights, you know, whenever you think of something called the Tommy Knockers. That was something that was brought from Wells over here into the United States. but people still report them. Even in 2024, people are still reporting whenever they go out of the minds to have interactions with these very strange entities. So, again, we could go in so many different directions

with what these earthlights are. And that's what makes it so very intriguing is that there could be three or four more movies about this. And we still didn't even scraps at surface. And you can write many, many more books. But I guess at the end of the day, what we're dealing with is a phenomenon that seemingly is embedded within the environment in which it occurs. There seems to be an intelligence associated with it as well too.

And it seems also as if it is a part of more wide-ranging phenomena as well, too, Bigfoot sight and UFO sightings. So it really is kind of a, and I think in the film of the paranormal, nobody is really researching what these things are. These are some of the few shows that I've ever done regarding earthquakes. People don't talk about these things very much. So I think that we're at the very beginning of research into what these things are. Yeah, somebody's got to do it.

I'm glad you guys are because they're being seen everywhere. I think orbs and lights are some of the biggest reported UFOs now. It's no longer flying saucers, black triangles. It's these, like you mentioned, almost intelligent. lights. And Ron, I know in your book you refer to them as elemental intelligence, which I love that term. It reminds me of a case that I investigated, gosh, almost two decades ago where a Vietnam veteran told me about how he was in, you know, the jungle in Vietnam, and he was in the middle of a firefight. And he started seeing these lights all above him. And he had no idea what they

were, but he felt this magnetic pull to them and to follow them. So in the middle of the jungle, during a firefight, he just decides to put all of his trust into these quote unquote phantom lights, and he followed them. And where did they bring him? Straight to a rescue helicopter and got him out of there. And that stuck with me. I just, I couldn't believe it. And I'm, you know, back then, I'm like, oh, it's a UFO. But now I'm like, maybe it was a guardian angel. Maybe it was, you know. And in that context. Oh, dude.

Yeah. In that context in combat, you know, this guy's, I'm sure he was praying to God or something that get me out of here or help me through the situation. So he probably perceived it as a religious, you know, entity rather than, you know, the coal mine aspect or the, you know, Tommy Knockers or whatever. Yeah, so that is really interesting. And it just plays on what Ron and I are talking about with this perceived, you know, it's up to the person who is interpreting these lights and in what context. Yeah, and to talk a little bit more about Southeast Asia, you know, there's a great tradition there as well, two of these earthlights being seen.

And in the culture, they're seen as dragon lights, you know, the breath of a dragon or the manifestation of the dragon as well. So again, it's very difficult on how do you assign these things value without looking particularly at a particular culture. And this comes back time and time again about this

rather serpentine quality of these things, because oftentimes they're seen in a group, you know, and I've seen three at a time seeming to kind of flow along and undulate through the forest. And, you know, even whenever you look at the Australians, and their dreamt

time they have this kind of snake that divides the two worlds apart and oftentimes that snake is seen to be illuminated by different lights as well. So again, you know, is this a remnant memory of UFO visitation? Is this

connection with the elementals? You know, exactly what we have going on here. Hey everyone, Ryan Sprague here, host of Somewhere in the Skies. If you've ever thought about supporting us, we have great two easy options for you right now. If you listen to the show on Apple Podcasts, you can click the

subscribe button at the top of your Apple feed. Or you can join our Patreon at patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Both of these options give you the same benefits, early access to the main show, bonus episodes and content, and priority to ask our guests, your listener questions. So to help support Somewhere in the Skies, click that subscribe button on Apple or visit Patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Thank you so much for your support and keep looking up. What do we have going on? It's crazy. It's fascinating. It really is. And to kind of piggyback off of what you guys said there, I'd like to know in your research, did you find a cases where these things harmed people as opposed to helping them you know I've even heard cases

where like people who've come into contact with these lights like in their homes even uh being healed of things like so many going as far as to say like I was cured of cancer which is a very bold claim and statement to make um I'm not pretending that that is what seemingly cured them uh but people are saying these types of things. So I guess, you know, light and dark side, Sith Lord Jedi, are these things good, bad, or somewhere in between? I don't think I've ever read a case where someone was injured by them or directly harmed. I do think that, well, Ron, I mean, you can attest to this. We were in that area where the Brinkers took us and Keith felt totally relaxed to the point where he sat down on the ground and

started meditating. To me, that kind of like, that raised a big, you know, red flag to me. I'm like, bro, don't let this thing pull you in, you know, it's like, but he was super relaxed. Me, I'm a little bit more nervous, some more skeptical. So I'm like, I don't know what this thing is. It could be of the evil sorts. So I want to not get sucked into it. But Keith felt really comfortable. And as the night went on, I started feeling more. comfortable. And, I mean, there is, you get vibes and it's totally real and you feel the energy of this stuff. But yeah, is it, is it bad? Is it good? I don't know. I've only seen better than worse, in my opinion. And I think Ron probably say the same thing. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I'm not the kind of person that's going to stick around and find out. If I feel frightened, I will run quickly. Well, as quickly as I can't, let's put it that way. But I've never felt like running whenever I would experience these things. And I guess when we look at the long tradition, these things never have been malevolent anyway. You have the stories of them leading people into swamps and things of that nature, you know, the idea of the fairy lights that will lead people astray. But I think that more, that harkens more to the stupidity of humanity than these lights find to take you into some place to kill you. But I think, again, it's how you perceive them. They almost serve as a blank slate, and you can project onto them whatever you want to project onto them.

Yeah, right. Yeah, we play such a large role in these phenomena. Like I always tell people, the observer is, like, the key to all of this. You know, we, in the UFO world, like, we're living our best lives right now on our thrones with, like, congressional UFO hearings and, you know, president's saying they're going to release all the UFO files and new programs coming out every day, like saying these things are real, these things are real. When it comes to ghosts, when it comes to Bigfoot, like, we're just not there yet. But yeah, with UFOs, it seems like people are taking this very seriously in terms of all that. And I try to remind people, yes, it's cool that like the government's getting involved.

But look what happens every time the government does get involved with the topic. You know, it just gets stamped down, covered up and put on the shelf again for another. Yeah, man. So I tell people don't, don't depend on the government to like give you the truth behind these anomalous phenomena. Like it comes person by person, witness by witness. So that's me getting off my UFO soapbox. But what do you guys think? Do you think we will ever know what the phantom lights are or aren't, I guess?

Tyler, I guess we'll go first with you. I guess I'll know when my time's up on Earth. I think we all will know one day. But while we're alive, I don't know. I think we're going to have to cross that other plane to really figure it out unless we find some technology that can see into that, but I don't think we're meant to. That's a good point.

We might not be meant to. That's true. And I am a believer that if science would even remotely recognize the possibility of the paranormal existing, then we could kind of work together and get into the mysteries, right? What's going on? I think the world is an ambivalry.

amazing place that's multifaceted and multi-layered. And people do talk about dimensions and they talk about the possibilities of other things out there, but they're not willing to come together with the paranormal investigator to hear what we have to say. You know, we're still marginalized and we're still those people, right? But I think that if we could ever come together, I said in another radio broadcast, that I would love to see conferences on the paranormal

being held at educational institutions. I would love to see this happening in colleges so you could have an open forum for people who are specialists in things like harmonics and electricity and everything like that. Speaking

with people that want to talk about UFOs and hauntings and everything else, I think that when we have that kind of open reporter with multidisciplines, we get closer to realizing what may be out there within the world around us. And you'll see a huge spike of people willing to come forward and share their experiences if you do something like that. In that small forum, you know, someone's seeking higher education.

They might not feel open to talk about their paranormal experiences or, you know, what have you. So, yeah, that's a great idea, Ron. Very much so right. Yeah. Yeah, as a kid, I was always in. to Bigfoot, right? Like, I would watch in search of all the time. I was reading voraciously about Bigfoot, and then

you get to high school, and it kind of like, all the stuff becomes indoctrinated out of you, right? Like, you know, this is something that you don't talk in legitimate classrooms, right? This is something that is, you know, for late night TV, right?

So, I was in college, and it was my very first year of college, and I took a class on anthropology. It was anthropology 101. And I had to buy this big book on physical anthropology and archaeology. And there was

a chapter in there about the evolution of human beings and they're spread out throughout the world. And there was a passage in there about the possibility of something like the giganopithecus existing

up into the historical period in order to give rise to the notion of the abominable snowman. Now, this is the first time I ever saw it written in an academic book, the possibility that things like this could be out there, right? And it was as if Bigfoot walked into the room and sat down beside me and said, you know, now what do you do with me? Because the more you look at this, you know, the look at the world's, you know,

mythologies and folklore, you can see how, how, you know, important the wild man phenomenon is, you know, it has been seen as the other, it's been seen as the chaos, if you look at the world of structuralism. It's the opposite of who we are, but it's still a mirror of who we are as well,

too, where we could go to, what happens if we fall back into our different ways and things like that? So I really do think that we can approach this, and I attempt in whenever I write a book, I always attempt to make this as scientifically

plausible as possible. It's not just a litany of sightings that I put down, but it's the possibility of what these things could or could not be. At least that's where I endeavor to do. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, academia has begun to take at least the UFO topic more seriously.

There are courses being taught, whether from a sociological perspective, religious perspective, historical perspective. But yeah, Rod, I can imagine that was like a big moment to see something like the abominable snowman in an academic book. And, you know, I mean, yeah. And my two of my books are being currently taught in two different college courses in the United States. So that right there alone tells you, like, we're on our way.

Yeah, we are. Right. Yeah. That's right. I would like to see what those well as you know, taught something. time. I mean, I would like to see a legitimate course on such a thing. Yes, I would have to agree with that. I think, again, like, the idea of something like cryptozoology belongs in a classroom. Like, these could be living, breathing creatures,

or a missing link or something, you know, that has evolved far beyond what we are, that it does need to be asked. Like, we need pioneers. We need. We need. We need. We need like people willing to step on those landmines so that more people in the anthropological world, the scientific world, would be like, maybe it is okay for me to question this and look for other answers. Yeah. And that's a great, great term that you use, they're pioneers. So we had Bindernegle and we had Bouvernaeckel and we had Bouverbrands and Jeff Malden. We had the pioneers that what has happened now is we have been so deluded, right? I mean, Benjamin Bradford for the Senator on Skeptical Enquirer said,

the biggest problem within the Bigfoot community is the Bigfoot investigators, right? And that is definitely true, is that we need to come about this kind of stuff, not with that bravado, you know what I mean? Not, you know, being out as if you're going into war or something like that. You know, you have your researchers and you have those people that cause people. that cause play that they're going out on an expedition to capture and kill Bigfoot, right? We need to have really strong minds in here who are not going to be ridiculed by that kind of, you know, the uncommon denominator, which is the people that you're always going to find that want to have some sort of publicity because they are pretending that they're being something that they're not.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I guess to kind of move back to small town monsters for a moment, guys. Tyler, I love your thoughts on this. Ron, you too. I've made a few films in my days, whether it's fiction or nonfiction. And there's always fun stories that can be told about the making of things like this. And I'm just watching you guys trek through the Chestnut Ridge in the middle of winter, snow everywhere. And I'm like, oh my God, it must have been freezing.

I'm sure there were things you ran into that you wish you did or didn't. I just went super blurry. Sorry about that, guys. And I love to hear about the filming process. So what was it like, like trying to, I guess, Tyler, adapt a book or elaborate on a book that was written and make it into a film? And do you have any fun stories for the filming of this project? Yeah, we're about to do it again, aren't we, in January? I don't know what my obsession is.

I'm like a glutton for punishment, man. I've, like, beat my body to death. I'm only 27, but we're going to go out of the winter again this January and go make something. That I'm not, I can't talk about it right now, but it's going to be good. But yeah, no, yeah, man, the first time Ron and I met, it was snowing. and my girlfriend and I were coming back from Pittsburgh, and Ron invited us to his house for dinner. And like the whole time, my girlfriend's joking

that Ron's like this serial killer character or like a vampire or something. And then we meet Ron, and he's got this spread of dinner, and we meet his family, and it's like the most warm, welcoming experience I could, like a person could ever have with a stranger. And that's when I knew that we were going to have something special

because the way Ron and I interacted with each, other way he accepted me as family and I was somebody he's never met either. You know, I'm sure he's thinking all these things about me as well, you know, and we just connected in a way that I thought was really natural, really cool, kind of weird and bizarre too, like that we just like clicked so well. So that's, that's something that I don't think a lot of people know. And I just love being around Ron. I love working with Ron. And hopefully we'll have many more projects together because I don't think I could I don't want to make a documentary without Ron to be honest so yeah it's just fun man and and we just connect in a different way but but a funny like

a little funny anecdote or something that happened during the filming of Phantom Lights I would say Keith and I there's a bit in the movie where I talked about we were camping on this old boating pile call saw this old coal that's unusable um that was probably dug up 40 years ago we're camping on this little knoll of coal and it got so cold like probably 20s, tens at night that we had, we had built a big fire pits. We had all these large rocks that were being heated by the fire all night. So we grabbed one of those, wrapped it in tinful and then stuck it inside the tent with us. Well, we were really stupid and it melted the lining of the tin at the bottom.

So we woke up to like the smelling of like burning plastic and we're like, oh my God, we're so stupid. So then we put wood underneath that and then we were able to stack that rock and be able to heat our tent a little bit better than burning our tent down. So that was kind of funny. And I took some pieces of coal in different areas where we were

filming. So I gave those out to people that helped on the film. So that was cool as well. But yeah, I don't know. Ron, you have anything? Yeah, I think that everything was actually, we were constantly laughing, right? Even though this was a serious project

There was constant laughing and jokes. The thing that I can tell you about small-time monsters, with you and with Heather Moser, it feels like home. Like, whenever you get there, it feels like you're getting together with your family, and that makes all the difference in the world. Because I know that what I have to say is going to be supported by these folks, right? And they also inspire you to do better as well, too. So, yeah, I cannot wait for the next project. I'm looking forward to not only to delve into the paranormal, but also. also meeting up with everybody again.

Yeah, I can attest to that. I mean, you know, without getting into small-town monsters like gush hour, they are an incredible company to work with. I had the amazing opportunity to come to the festival this year for the first time. And it wasn't even like, yeah, we want you to give a lecture or anything. Seth was just like, hey, come on. Like, come. Just be a part of the family and hang out.

You know, if people want to talk to you or you want to record a podcast, do it. We would love to have you. And they really do make you feel like family. And they afford researchers these incredible opportunities to really express themselves to get their research out to a public that, you know, they might not be able to with just, you know, an independently published book or or even, you know, a YouTube channel or something like that. So they really do, I think, put, you know, the town first. It's in the name, Small Town Monsters. And the researchers, second, over entertainment, over, you know, getting it out on the biggest platform possible, you know. Because we know what happens when something like Netflix or something swoops in and the project becomes unrecognizable from what you would want it to be.

So I would imagine for both of you, like, you. Like you had the creative freedom to really make these two things what you wanted them to be. Yeah, and if you look at UFOs revisited, another project that we did together under the Small Town Monsters model, it was six people sitting around a table, each with their own opinions. And every opinion was, you know, accepted, right? There was nothing that was thrown out. So even in those types of forums, even whenever you're just sitting around talking, everybody is accepted for what they have to say. And every opinion that they have is valued as well.

And that's an important thing because, again, in order to get to the bottom of these things, it's going to require debate and it's going to require trial and error. And that you definitely have that with small-time monsters. Oh, yeah. For sure. Well, to kind of, I guess, wrap things up, guys, in terms of both of your respective projects, what do you hope people will take away from both phantom lights uapes at the forest and lights in the mist uh tyler what do you hope people will take away from your film sure from you know from the film i hope people take away um the fact that i made this movie for the appalachian region and the appalachian

people so if it could spark a conversation about uh you know what families endured during these hard struggles of steel industry and coal industry oppression over time. And something else that I hope people can experience these lights for themselves, go out and try to find these things and have the freedom to speak about their experiences as well. Because I think the movie is very honest. And I hope people can see that in the film. It's like, this is what we saw.

And I'm not trying to tell you what it is. I just want you to know that they're out there, you know. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the same thing. I think that, you know, we're not, we're not shoving anything down your throat. We are telling you what we have experienced.

And it's up to you to really decide what you think is going on out there. Yep. Yeah. The mystery remains, as it always does. Are we meant to know the answers, like you both said? Perhaps not. But you guys are going to keep trying. I'm going to keep trying to figure out what these phantom lights are.

And it's exciting. It's a journey. And, you know, it's not the destination. It's the journey. It's you guys getting to meet one another. You know, the three of us getting to interact and have these awesome conversations. It's really exciting. So, obviously, the last biggest question of all.

Tyler, we'll start with you. Where can we find your documentary? Sure. Yeah. You can find it on YouTube on Small Town Monsters YouTube channel. It's completely for free, and the title is Phantom Lights. Very easy to find. Just go to the YouTube channel and type in Phantom Lights, and it's right there.

That's a word that's foreign to me. Free? What is that mean? Oh, my God. That's crazy. Ron had said on something we did like a week or so ago. I don't know. All these are starting to blend together, but Ron had mentioned, like,

or maybe it was Aaron, whatever. I think we all shared this sentiment, but it's like, okay, in a world of $3 and whatever, gas, and you have a free movie to watch, go watch the movie, it's free, you know. Whether it sucks or not, it's free, and you don't get a lot of free right now. Very true, my friend.

That's pretty awesome. Ron, where can we find your book? You can find my book on smalltime monsters.com. It's actually a little bit cheaper there than we're bringing it from Amazon. And then you can find my other books on Amazon as well too, where I write about fairies and vampires and all that good stuff. And I also have a book out there called The Unexplained World of the Chestnut Ridge,

which is all my research on the Chestnut Ridge. That's amazing. And Ron, I learned this week we are going to be seeing each other here in the UK later in 2020. So I look forward to that. Yeah, what will you be talking about out there? I think I'm going to be discussing Ferris. Okay. Nice.

Yeah. Yeah, this is pretty cool. This is an event called CryptidCon, UK. I was just invited to speak at this event where I'll be talking about the connections between Bigfoot and UFOs. Ron would be there as well. I'll have a link to where you guys can learn more about it. I'll have links to your books, Ron, to the doc, Tyler, in the show notes as well, guys. So go watch the doc.

the book, support these guys and everything they're doing, everything small town monsters is doing. And this is awesome. I love when we can have a conversation about something different when it comes to the UFO topic. It's not the same talk about Roswell or, you know, the area 51. We can have a conversation about a subtopic within UFOs that will be introduced to a whole new audience. So I hope you guys enjoyed listening. and watching this. Again, my thanks to you, Ron, and to you, Tyler. And I cannot wait to have you guys back on Somewhere in the Sky.

So thank you again. Thank you. Thank you, bro. The Somewhere in the Sky's podcast is part of the Lionsgate Sound Network. Please take a moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever possible. Thank you for listening.