Somewhere in the Skies - The Swedish Men in Black w/ Fred Andersson

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

On episode 307 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we welcome back Swedish UFO researcher, Fred Andersson. While the mystery of the Men in Black phenomenon has arguably taken shape within American UFO lore, Andersson has uncovered cases in Sweden of similar encounters with these strange and elusive figures. Who are they? Where do they come from? Do they truly want to silence UFO witnesses? Andersson poses his own theories and then shares his all-time favorite UFO case out of Sweden. Follow Fred Andersson on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/HomoSatanis Read his articles at: https://fred-andersson.medium.com/ Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Book your Cameo video with Ryan at: https://bit.ly/3kwz3DO Official Store: CLICK HERE Buy Somewhere in the Skies coffee! Use promo code: SOMEWHERESKIES10 to get 10% off your order: https://bit.ly/3rmXuap Order Ryan’s book in paperback, ebook, or audiobook: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryansprague51 Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Copyright © 2023 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan's bread. Fred Anderson, welcome back to Somewhere in the Skies. Thank you. Thank you. It's such a pleasure to be back. You know, even if I, it was a recording the last time, if I remember it correctly. So I wasn't really there live, you know, or here live. And like I mentioned to you before we started here, I am a little bit star-strand. to be on somewhere in disguise.

I must admit that. So now I'm like, I've been writing to my friends and my partner and, you know, I hope I doesn't sound silly now. You know, this Swedish accent, Swedish chef. I don't know. No. First of all, that's extremely flattering. I'm honored to have you on.

And there's a reason. we're having you on. And that's because we're going to talk all about Swedish UFOs and the Swedish men in black. And I couldn't think of a better person to come on to talk about that. So no, it's a true honor to have you here. And yes, we should mention you were featured in episode 259 of somewhere in the skies where I covered Nordic UFOs and a few cases out of Sweden. And you had written a brilliant article. And I reached out to you. And I said, is it okay if I feature this in the episode? And then it dawned on me.

I'm like, what would be even better? Let's just have Fred tell the story. And you are so gracious and kind to let me do that. And hey, people love that episode. As I know, they're going to love this one. So, yeah, let's, I guess let's kind of dive into the subject we're going to be discussing. And that is the Swedish men in black. Now, when people think of the men in black, they often think of the, obviously the movies with Will Smith and these very old cases in the United States.

But this phenomenon has happened worldwide. We've heard of cases all over the world. And you were able to dig up several Swedish men in black cases as well, which I was never keen to. And I know a lot of our audience may, never have known these either. So we're going to be talking about that tonight. But before we even do that, I have to ask the origin story of Fred Anderson. How did you first get involved with

UFOs? What sparked your interests? Well, it's very, very easy to show. This book here, The Outrubli Atefarton, this is the book by Eirchen-Semichov. He was a Russian-Swedish Swedish journalist, you know, in popular science.

You know, he wrote about space, about science in general. And he also had a keen interest in UFOs and aliens, but he was also a skeptic. He was really, really skeptic. So this book specifically is, I mean, it's clearly he really doesn't believe what is writing about. can also sense that he has such a passion for it. He's so curious about these cases. And there's Swedish cases. There is maybe foremost American cases. This is the first time I heard about

the Socorro incident with Lonis Amora. And it's still one of my favorite cases out there, actually. So this one, I think my mother found it for me at some secondhand store. And, you know, I was stuck directly into the subject. So, I mean, I blame everything on this book, you know. I love that. I blame everything on my UFO sighting and a book as well by Staten Friedman, which was Crash a Corona, about the Roswell UFO crash. So I know well, my friend, how much these books can kind of take a hold of you, whether imaginary or real. And that kind of plays into what we're going to be talking about tonight in terms of the men in black. Are they real? Have people actually encountered these people?

Or are they even people? I know we're going to discuss later some of the theories on what the men in black might be. But before we even do that, okay, so you have this interest in UFOs. You write over, you know, you write your articles over at Medium. And that's where I found this one. And it really caught my attention. So I got to ask, what inspired you to look into the men in black? Well, I have a tendency to, you know, when I get a fixed idea and I can't stop thinking about it.

I don't know if I'm somewhere in the spectrum, but I can't stop looking into something when I start thinking about it. And when it was the case with the men in black in Sweden is because I couldn't find them at all. It was, there was like no information. We have a lot of very, very interesting flying saucer cases in Sweden. We have humanoids. We have other kinds of beings. We have a lot of ghosts. We have a lot of these things.

But there was almost nothing. written about men in black. And when I looked in old UFO magazines and newsletters and books from Sweden, they were often just mentioned briefly. So I actually contacted Hocan Blumke who's a brilliant Swedish researcher, mostly about UFOs in relation to the esoteric. So he's an expert on contactees and similar characters out there. And I asked him, have you ever heard about men in Black in Sweden? And he sent me a link to a little text he wrote once. And that, you know, that may realize, okay, there is stuff out there.

So I continued to go through that source. And I found a couple more, not many, but there is a couple of cases that I actually find quite interesting. So, I mean, thanks to having access to the archives for the unexplained and their amazing scanned collection of newsletters and searchable newsletters and magazines, I was able to dig up a few more cases, which I wrote about in the article. So, you know, the main thing was that I couldn't find anything. and if I can't find anything, then I must find it.

So I find it really interesting kind of how you were able to dig up some of these cases of men in black, Fred. But I know you kind of have a personal story, too, of a possible, and we use that term loosely possible brush with a men in black. Would you mind telling us the story of loam and how that kind of ties into all of this? Yeah, it's It was around the first time when I started to think about Swedish men in black encounters And I had just begun this was a while ago, you know, maybe two years ago or something And I had I started to do some light research see if I could find anything and I was you know It was going through my mind all the time

And I remember I ran down to the store and to do some shopping and on my way home a man passed me I didn't see his face but a man passed me and I could I could sense that he was stopping behind me I could I could literally sense his eyes in my neck and I turn around and I noticed that this guy who was dressed in a dark jacket and a dark hood was standing still there at

at the at the street just looking at me and I felt okay you know it was during daytime I'm not worried in that way that it could be dangerous or something so I just okay he's he thought I looked like like you thought I looked like someone or maybe he's a drug dealer you know it's I've been asked several times here to to ask by substances so anyway I ignored in and I walked up to the park in front of our house and once again I had this feeling that, you know, he's behind me. And I look back and, yes, he's coming behind me, you know, maybe 20, 30 meters. And now I start to get a bit worried, actually.

So I walk to the house and I turn around. And then I just see him standing on a very specific spot on this path through this little forest in the park. And he's standing there looking at me. It's like from, I know what you did last summer, basically, you know, with the hoodie. And okay, okay, so I hurry in. I lock the door. Everything is fine. I don't think about this for a day, maybe.

So, I mean, the next day I'm sitting working in the living room, and I sense that I see that the cats are, they're focusing on something in the hallway. And I go out and look, and I see the handle, the door. handle moving like someone is trying to get inside. And I'm like, all right, right. So I look out to people. And I see, I see this man. I recognize him. I recognize the clothes.

I see him standing outside the door. And I even snap a photo to be safe through the people, you know, to, you know, for, you know. Yeah. And I open the door and I ask, so you're looking for someone? I must have been crazy, I guess. And he says, Luam or Loam, he pronounces Luam. And I said, no, there's no Luam here and close the door. And he continues to be outside the door for a while.

And then he leaves. And then for a month, this man showed up outside our door in the stairs. He tried to get inside our apartment in the middle of the night. He rang the doorbell. I remember once at midnight. One evening, I was kind of shilling. I looked out the balcony, and I could see him standing outside the balcony looking up at our apartment.

And I could see his white eyes, you know, glittering in the darkness. And I told my partner, you know, he's here again. He's here again. And every time we met him, he asked for Luam. And this continued for like a month, basically. And then he disappeared again. So I'm, I mean, it was a mysterious man who behaved very bizarrely. I felt directly that it was some kind of connection to men in black because I was so focused on it at the moment.

And a while later, I was thinking about this word or name, Luam, what is it? and I decided to check it with Alan H. Greenfield's The Secret Cipher of the Euphonauts. You know, we're going to go the occult route here. Absolutely. Yeah, and the word Luam, it brought only sinister words like shadows or lurking, stuff like that. And I started to research the word Luam. And Luam is a different spelling for Lum, I think, which is kind of a soil. Lum is also the alien entity that Alistair Crowley channeled a long time ago.

So you see, you know this meme with this guy standing pulling strings between a noteboard, the conspiracy meme. That was me at the time. And there was like this connection between men in black, Alistair Crowley, my fascination by men in black, of course, everything kind of just came into one there. And then I realized that men in black basically has to do with paranoia because it automatically creates paranoia. I mean, when we listen to people who have met men in black, all of them are in a state of paranoia.

They don't trust anyone. They don't trust, of course, they're mysterious men. They start connecting dots that might not even be there. And I can understand why that frightens people so much. on a different note this led to another bizarre synchronicity because that was a couple of months later and a friend sent me a photo from Norway and it was this big tracks in the snow footprints

and I was joking oh it's troll it's a troll footprints and yeah we laughed about that a couple of hours later I got an email from an English production company who asked if they can use a photo I took once of a troll as a peridolia effect. It's a troll. So, okay, weird, two troll things in one day. And in the evening, I'm out walking and I'm coming to this exact spot out in the park where

this man was standing. On that spot was a wooden troll, you know, a carved wooden troll, you know, standing on the exact same spot. So that's like, of course, now I sound mad. I realize that. But it's, you know, when you start following the synchronicities around men in black, around the esoteric and UFOs, then, I mean, you can disappear forever into the rabbit hole. And I still think about this guy.

I still look for him. I still sometimes go and look through the people. Is he standing there today? Is he down in the basement? So, yeah, it's created some kind of paranoia that still holds on up until today, actually. So, of course, I had to dive into the subject of Swedish men in black even more, you know, to, you know, to kind of just make it come full circle, I guess. Right. Right.

Wow. That is so fascinating. I, first of all, I didn't think we were going to connect trolls in the men in black, but I'm so happy that we've done that, Fred. That's awesome. But you bring up this idea of paranoia. And I think you're right. That is kind of the nature of the men in black phenomenon. Some figures lurking in the distance, either, you know, preceding or after a UFO event of some sort, or a event of of high strangeness or the paranormal. They always seem to be around, at least in the lore that we've come to learn, both in the United States and possibly even in Sweden. So I love, if you wouldn't mind, could you maybe give us a few of the stories from the article that you found in terms of these Swedish men in black,

if we do want to call them that? Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. No, no. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Get the alerts that could make all the difference.

Save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com slash special offer. Terms apply. Yeah, we have one that's actually connected to. to Loch Ness and the Loch Ness monster. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. It was in August, I think, 1971.

And young journalist, Jan Uwesundberg, was sent to Loch Ness by the magazine he was working for, Lectire, which was a men's magazine, to write about the monster. And when he was, you know, lurking around there, he go into the forest and suddenly he sees this UFO, a UFO shaped like an iron basically. They want to make clothes flat, I don't know, you call it iron yeah. Yeah.

And he sees three individuals, three beings outside in what he thinks looks like diving suits, which is interesting because diving suits is something that comes back into his, in the mythology he was creating, basically.

So these beings, they fly away in their iron UFO and he goes home, he writes the article about the Loch Ness monster, doesn't mention the aliens or UFO or anything like that. But not long after, he starts to have uninvited visitors to his house in Mutala. They were knocking on his door. They were calling him, threatening him not to write and talk about this. He saw a big black figure in the garden lurking around. And this scared him so much that he basically refused to talk about the UFO slash alien part of the Loch Ness story.

One need to keep in mind that Jono Vison Bari was, if I'm going to be kind, you couldn't trust him. always. He had a tendency to make things up, to just make it spicier. He claimed to have taken photos of this UFO in Loch Ness, and he, in Flying Salsa review, he actually shows a photo of one of the aliens, which shows nothing at all. There's just a forest. There's nothing there. but it's fascinating I think because it's so it's it was so connected to to Loch Ness which also brings forth another Man in Black episode in connection to that lake

the first interview kind of with John Wvesonbury was made with by Ted Holiday in 1971 for a flying social review or no it was 73 And Ted Holliday is one of many things he's famous for is that he did a thing with a priest, Reverend Oman, I think his name was, who tried to exercise the Loch Ness monster. The day of... Yeah, you know, it's a bizarre story. He even exercised the Bermuda Triangle, I heard, but I haven't looked into it so much. Okay. Yeah, but the day after he was, the day after exorcism, Ted Holiday was out walking nearby

the lake and saw suddenly men in black staring at him from a distance, dressed in black leather clothes, and he heard a whistling sound, and then he disappeared. So it's an odd little connection to the men in black mythos, even from, from, from, that direction, the guy who wrote the article about Jan Uwesundberg's experience at Loch Ness. John Ove later wrote a book called Phantom Submarines or Phantom Uvotala, which is a Swedish book where he goes into, you know, we had a kind of a USO flap in Sweden during the 80s, where people saw strange, mysterious submarines everywhere. And Jan Uwe thought these were, of course, alien crafts of some kind.

So in this book, he had a whole chapter on Frogman in Black, which is, I never heard about it before until I read this book. And he had like, I think it's like 25, 30 accounts of Frogman in Black who threatens witnesses and behave weirdly, often in connection to strange otherworldly submarries or whatever it is. So here the diving suits comes back again in his world because the beings at Lugnes had that.

So Jan Ui was a strange, strange character, not totally pleasant, but he's someone, you, in Swedish euphology, if a story is too good to be true, it's probably because you can find John Ove somewhere in the background

spicing it up a little bit, or a lot, or totally. The man was a mystery, absolutely. He was a madman. But good writer, he kind of reminds me of Gray Barker in the way that he was,

he had an amazing way of telling stories. And you were never really sure how much he made up. Gray Barker, of course, is a totally different class, but they had similar properties, both these men, you know, there were tricksters, hoaxers, showmen in one way or another at least. But, you know, the frogman in black is, you know, he has so many that I think he actually have some real accounts and maybe he saw what he thought they would be in them.

You know, maybe it was, you know, I mean, in the stuff, he wrote all these frogmen, what you can see of them. They have often a darker complexion in the skin. They have, you know, a bit exotic look, you know, in Sweden. Everything was, you know, everything that didn't look Swedish. looked strange at the time. There was one man, he was out walking with his collie, and he encountered like six or seven of these frogmen

coming walking towards him, and they kind of hypnotized him. So he was frozen, he was paralyzed while they were walking past him, which kind of reminds me of a couple of older gnome observations from Sweden, where the witnesses also kind of got paralyzed while they were marching by him. Another frogman, he wasn't dressed in a diving suit at the time, but he and his colleague was in an old-fashioned car, of course, stopped by the witness and asked for the direction to the harbor or something like that. And then he started asking questions like,

what's your time cycle? You know, weird questions of nowhere. and of course the witness later saw this guy and this colleague and a couple of other frogmen down by the water entering a submarine. These are weird stories, but like I said, with Jonova, you never know what's the truth in them. What have he added and what have he totally made up? And what's the truth? You know, is there a truth? You know?

Wow. Well, you bring up so many little avixtal. news we could go down with all of this. But when you said, you know, it kind of reminded you of something like Gray Barker or even Albert K. Bender, sort of these gentlemen in the United States who kind of birthed this mythology of the men in black. You know, there have been a lot of historians or let's say folklorists have traced it back to the dark. of time, basically, you know, if you want to take it down different routes of religion and the occult and men in black and dark figures. But it really did kind of start, I think, with the work of people like Albert K. Bender and Great Barker and even the kind of sorted case of Mori Island in the United States.

So I guess my question for you, Fred, is do you see any connections or patterns between what you are able to dig up in Sweden with these men in black cases and what was reported in the United States? The tricksterish nature is what stands out for me personally, like you said. We hear that a lot in the cases in the United States. But yeah, were you able to find any patterns or connections between what's going on there in Sweden and possibly in the U.S.? What's up somewhere in the skies listeners? Ryan here. Just wanted to give a quick shout out to our brand new Patreon supporters. Special thanks to Matthew K.

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I couldn't do the show without your support So again, my sincere thanks to all of you, past, present, and future. If you'd like to help support Somewhere in the Skies today, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Keep looking up and enjoy this week's episode. Well, I think in those cases, I've found all of them basically have some kind of paranormal part, you know, In Janove's case, he had a poltergeist phenomena in his home after the man in black contacted him. Another guy, a very beloved man called Bevan Berthelsen, who was the chairman of Euphosweria for two years during the 70s.

He had his own experience in 1973, where a strange man, showed up. This was after a UFO observation he had his first one. And this man showed up at his face. This man showed up at his house, asked a couple of weird questions, walked

out on this tiny road outside this country house and just disappeared. So you have these figures, these characters who just kind of like ghosts, you know, like the shadow people. They just

appear and disappear. I mean, I remember in the Albert K. Bender case that he experienced what you could describe as some kind of poltergeist phenomena, you know, knocking and bangings on the doors and walls and similar things, which is, of course, deeply connected to ghostly experiences also. And I mean the look, at least in the look of the men, at least in the case of Jonova and Bevan is very traditionally men in black. They don't have any diving suits on in those cases, of course. So yeah, I mean, absolutely. It's a mythology that have kind of, like you said, it has spread over the world. our modern view on men in black,

it's kind of, not weird, but it's, you know, I like it when it goes really strange. I find it a bit boring when there's men in black who just looks like, you know, some militaries or they look like some boring government types. I want them to have black suits, old-fashioned suits, hats, old cars, similar things like. that what's missing today, I'd say, is the madness, the bizarerness of, for example,

Albert K. Bender's experiences. I mean, he had this three men who came floating in his bedroom, and they took him to Antarctica, and you had this strong smell of sulfur around them. And they were more like, I think I compared it to Slaternity. paralysis experience or a DMT trip and you know if if I mean I after rereading his book flying sources and the three men I I really think he experienced something and if it had a natural explanation I would say it's what sleep paralysis in combination with paranoia maybe there was government types actually contacting him because

I mean, it was a huge subject during the 60s. So, you know, it's a, it's a mix of all these things. And they have, I think why they, sorry, I'm jumping here a bit, I think that they're not so common in Sweden because we don't have the same tradition of secrecy as you have in the United States. In Sweden, I'm exaggerating a little bit, but we're very, very open. country. You can get access to a lot of material. You can pick up the phone and talk directly to someone still to a certain degree. And I think the secretness, the secrecy of the United States

and the government style the United States have kind of feeds the men in black mythology even more. Yeah, here it's like, it's a different culture. You know, it's a very, very different culture we have and had. I mean, these things I told you about happened in the 70s, and it was a way more innocent time in Sweden than it is now. So to have these things happen at the time, I would say, is very unique. And today, I'm surprised that we don't have more of these cases in modern times here in Sweden, though, because times have changed and we have a different kind of attitude.

There is more paranoia. So I'm surprised that that hasn't created, basically, many blacks out there. But then again, with Sweden, it's a small country, you know. I don't know if that was a good answer. I feel I'm rambling on here. No, no. No, it's a fantastic answer. You bring up a lot of good points of, especially the idea of secrecy.

I mean, when, you know, within the United States and even in, you know, I would say the UK as well at times, when your governments are not being transparent with the people, that is when you start to create. your own truths, create your own mythologies of what's occurring. And I think you're right. I think, you know, the reason you may not find a lot of cases like that in Sweden is because of that very reason. You have a government who's willing to tell the public what's going on and, and there's a trust there. I feel like in the United States there's no trust in government whatsoever. And we're seeing that play out right now, where our military are shooting down unidentified objects in the sky and not telling us what they are. So what happens? Either one extreme is that they're all surveillance equipment from a rival nation or the other extreme.

They're aliens from Zeta reticuli. And this is Roswell all over again. So I think you're right. There's a gap between the knowing and not knowing that I think creates these stories of men in black, what they are, who they are, where they come from. And that's not to say they're not real and that this phenomenon is not real. But a lot of it probably could be attributed to what we want it to be, what we want it to be. what we imagine it could be. And then tying in to UFO sightings. You know, once you have a UFO sighting, a lot of people are like, oh, my God, I've heard that the men in black come and silence you after you see these things. And that's when the paranoia starts.

And everyone around you is a little more suspicious and might be a men in black or a woman in black even. So it's interesting. I think you bring up a lot of good points there. I also believe that a UFO observation is by itself something so unique. Here in Sweden, I must admit, nowadays we don't have so many observations, you know, if you go back to the 60s and 70s and 80s where you had tons of them. Nowadays you don't have so much. But I can imagine, and I've never seen a UFO.

You know, I've seen dots in the sky and everything, but, you know, it could be something else. I think just by seeing something like that, your mind goes on high alert to everything that looks and feels strange. You know, it's, I can make a, this is quite wild comparison. I don't know if I should do it here, actually. Do it. Do it. Now we're going into Wu. Here.

There was some years ago, I did a lot of mushrooms psychedelics. And there was like a year I had, you know, over one summer I did mushrooms three times. And during all those three times, I met the same man. And he's an odd looking man. He's short, his fat, his clothes doesn't fit they're too big. And every time he looked at me. And yeah, you can say, okay, the guy's on mushrooms, he hallucinated. But no, I wasn't hallucinating.

But my senses, my mind was on high alert for everything around me. And I probably just noticed this guy each time. I mean, I live in a pretty small community. So, of course, with his odd looks, his strange behavior, he just stood out even more than he probably would in a way without mushrooms, I say. But that reminded me of how when you're into something unique, something odd, something out of the ordinary, how you tend to see stuff that not always is there. I have a weirder theory about that is that the phenomena itself used this guy as a kind of proxy.

So the phenomena showed itself to me as him. He was just an innocent bystander. He was just weird standing there fishing outside in nature like a gnome, basically. And he ended up being my connection to nature, to the phenomena, to the weirdness, to the high strangeness. And I think that's the case in a lot of encounters with the men in black, that you have seen something, you have experienced something and you have no idea what this.

Everything is weird. Your reality is fucked up. And suddenly these two guys or three guys or one guy or women come and they talk to you and you feel that, hmm, this is out of the ordinary. This is something that usually doesn't happen. Even if, you know, maybe there's some innocent people asking questions, you know, everything turns to I don't know if that made sense, but I can be a bit abstract sometimes. No, I love that. This idea that it can bring in a sense of high strangeness and everything starts to become

bizarre and this simple person now becomes like the center of a story they never wanted to be written into. And I find that fascinating. Yeah, like a symbol. a symbol for high strangeness. And men in black is, for me, at least, strong symbols for high strangeness. Because, you know, something weird happens,

man in black shows up. You know, it's been like that constantly, obviously, through the years, you know. So, but, you know, it could be anything. I don't know. But I find it very fascinating. I find it so fascinating. It is.

Well, let's go there in terms of it could be anything. because you actually wrote another article where you theorized about what the men in black could possibly be. We touched on that right now a little bit, but what other theories do you think could be behind this? For so long, I thought these were just members of the government coming out to silence UFO witnesses. But then you hear the high strangeness aspect to a lot of these cases. And it doesn't seem like we're dealing with just, you know, a hired U.S. Air Force person or someone in the CIA or something if we're going to keep it in the United States. It seems to be a lot weirder. And like you said, a lot more bizarre.

So what are some of those theories, Fred, that you kind of pose in terms of what the men in black, the Swedish men in black even could possibly be? Well, like you said, it's just theories. I find Men in Black to be an interesting thought experiment, just the presence of these characters. And that made me think. There is a theory that we're all aware of. I don't agree with it that we're living in assimilation. Everything around us is created by a computer or aliens or whatever.

Something have created us, and we're just running around there, poor suckers. And so maybe the men in black are kind of like a virus, like a virus sent in programmed by whoever's behind all of this to check up on us. But there's a glitch in the matrix, like a UFO or Bigfoot or whatever, these viruses or these programs, you can say, comes, you know, sneaking around, asking questions. And they're not like us because they're programmed to look like us, but they're not perfect. They're weirder. They're more unnatural somehow. And so that's one hypothesis, I would say, more than a theory. There's also this thing that maybe we're not visited by aliens at all.

But what we're visited by is probes. I mean, we have something called the Van Neumann probe, you know, probes sent to Earth to explore, check around. So maybe the men in black are kind of some kind of robotic or Android versions of that probe. They send them in, you know, like a bird watcher or some, you know, they dress like a tree or bush or something and try to get closer to the birds or other animals. So maybe that's what the men in black is.

They just made to look like us to sneak around. But they're not organic at all. I mean, there's many witnesses have described them as robotic in movement, with plastic faces, you know, obviously makeup on top of their things. I remember someone mentioned that it looked like he didn't have any lips, but the lips were painted by lip with lipstick. You know, it's like, what is this? So that's one idea. If we're going to go even more woo-woo here, I feel, and I'm semi-serious about this, that you can say that the men in black are manifestations.

or thought creations by humanity's own paranoia. You know, if you have the collective unhappiness paranoia, which I believe would create some kind of strong energy, you know, this negativity, this hopelessness, this paranoia, because the world, it is what it is, has been like that for a number of years. And that alone, it's like a tulpa. I don't know what you used to the word tulpa.

Someone wrote out the day that they're so tired of hearing about tulpas, but I'm saying it here. It could be a tulpa. Take it or leave it, guys. Toppa. Yeah. So they created from, they created by us, our collective, angst, anxiety, you know.

And this is like, I mean, I don't want to go political. but I also feel that some of these political characters we have are kind of the essence, the compressed unhappiness and paranoia and greed and everything of mankind itself. And that

generates certain form of characters. Not necessarily in a woo-woo style, but they kind of just being naturally pushed in front. And suddenly we have a madman as a leader, you know, as a you know, in the government or whatever you want to call it.

So that's also a little bit, a little take on it, at least. But, you know, I'm just speculating here. You know, I'm, of course. Yeah. But I'm, this, the men in black, they're like a, they are a rabbit hole, you know. It's difficult to not crawl into it, you know, and search and turn everything. stone and, you know, pull every root down there. There's always something that, you know, that sticks to you.

Sometimes it's a bit gooey and gluey. You know, you can't, you know, you can't get rid of it. And maybe many black are that goo that we people create unconsciously, I guess. Wow. You're blowing my mind, man. You're right. There's so many rabbit holes we could go down. The men in black are the goo.

You need to coin that term or what do they say? Trademark that term right now. Well, and I want to kind of wrap up our conversation on men in black because I also want to just get some of your favorite Swedish UFO cases. I'm dying to know. But before we we end that, you mentioned we don't hear a lot about men in black anymore or encounters with them. And we did touch on why that might be. But have you been able to find any sort of modern day iterations of what could possibly be interpreted as a men in black encounter? Anything like that in like the last 10 years or so even?

We always hear about them in decades prior. You mean in Sweden or internationally? I guess Sweden specifically. Well, I mean, I have one, but that's the one we were talking about having on the Patreon. Okay, all right. Guys, you heard it here first. Over on Patreon, after this conversation, we are going to continue with Fred over there to hear that story. So good tease. Good tease there, Fred. We'll save that one for Patreon then. Well, let's move on then to your favorite Swedish UFO cases. Now, some of them I'm familiar with, but not too many. So I'd like to get your thoughts and insights on some of the cases that really compel you in your homeland.

Well, we have, I mean, I would say, you know, I've written a lot about it. Some of this is not published yet, but it will be. And I found so many cases that I've fallen in love with and I can't stop looking into. Even if I'm done with the text, I'm continuing to dig into them because I want to find something new, something more interesting. And I think my absolute favorite one is in... a small community of Treheuningshue in 1969, in Trehehrning Shoe. It's a very, very small community, lots of forest and mountains around,

a couple of lakes, it's very peaceful there. And they have a transmitter station where, you know, signals, radio signals and television signals are distributed all over Sweden. And at that station, Sheldnassland worked. And on this evening, I think it was March 12, 1969. He came to work around six in the evening. And, you know, he made some coffee. He read the newspaper.

He checked the equipment. And suddenly all the alarms went off, you know, with, you know, lamps and sounds and, you know, chaos. So he stood up and like, what's going on here? And then it stopped. So he called his call. and they didn't know anything about it. So, you know, he leans back, continues with his newspaper, everything is calm again, it's getting darker.

Maybe half an hour later, he had this strong feeling that he needs to go and open the door and look outside the transmitter station. And when he do that, he sees a huge flying saucer. It's like 150 meters in diameter standing, you know, Wow. Yeah, it's enormous. It covers a whole, you know, deforestation area below the transmitter station. And he's like, what the fuck?

He's just looking at it because it's such a bizarre sight. He didn't expect that, you know. Yeah. And the thing is, he sees movements also. It's like a tunnel going into the UFO. He kind of described it as some kind of almost three-dimensional, four-dimensional tunnel. not purely material. And from that tunnel, beings came.

And they were moving towards the hospital station. And he received a message in his mind saying, let us in. So he opens the door and he lets in maybe 10, 11, 12 beings, shaped like boxes, like maybe one meter, meter in height and they kind of fussy foggy boxes

and they floats into the transmitter station and they kind of checks out the equipment and he's just standing there. He's like a couple of centimeters from them and he senses that these boxes or what you're going to call them are more like a shield and that there's some

kind of intelligence inside of them. This goes on for like 10 minutes or so. and then the beings leave, they float back into the UFO and they fly away. And he's left there alone. And the first thing he does is he calls the police. He has a friend who's a police, a local policeman, and says, you know, can you see something? So the policeman went out on his yard and looked in that direction and he didn't see anything.

He called his colleagues in a nearby town and, you know, did you, you know, was there something going on? and everyone like, no. And when he explained to them what had happened, they thought he was drunk. They laughed at him. His wife laughed at him. So he kept quiet about this for like three years or two years, 1971.

He first told about this encounter. And for as long as he lived, he passed away some years ago. He told the exact same story. There was no, you know, you have these UFO stories where details are added and there's, you know, getting more and more, you know, spectacular. But in his case, it was like, no, this happened. I have no idea what it is, but this happened.

And I would say what makes it convincing is that he made regular phone calls to his colleagues before the event, directly after they went and to his friend, the policeman. and there was a constant communication in and around this incident, which makes me feel that he didn't fall asleep. He didn't imagine this. This is something else. In 1977, another man actually encountered three beings at almost the same spot, some kind of short beings with spades.

They were digging in the ground, and they had a quite small UFO behind them. And when investigators came there like a day or two after, they could actually find traces in the ground of someone digging and taking moss samples and things like that. So this area was kind of a hotspot for a number of years of weird sightings and strange beings. So the 3007 case is absolutely one of my first.

favorite. It's so visual, especially when you read about it, not hearing a crazy old Swede talk about it. You can so easily imagine how it is out there in nowhere by this transmitter station and this huge flying saucer lens. I love it. Have you been out to the site where this occurred? No, I haven't. It's quite far away from where I live,

but I'm planning to. Definitely. I've been trying to pinpoint the exact spot where the flying saucer allegedly landed. So one day, maybe this summer, I will go up there and try to, you know, see if you can, maybe I can find some other witnesses or some relatives to Shell, you know, because I want to do something with it. You know, I went down to, there was a landing in 1946 in Engelholm. And last summer I went down there and I filmed it and I explored this area. And that's so fun to do, you know, to actually go to the location and explore it.

So yeah, with this case one day, absolutely, I will be there. And I will embarrass myself with knocking doors and talking to people. That is a true investigator. You have to be that. And you let me know, I'm not too far from you nowadays. If you need someone to, hey, hey, I'll carry your suitcase for you if you need. I don't care. I want to go there to you.

I mean, it's easy to get to Engelholm. Engelholm is in the south of Sweden where this UFO monument is, the landing in 1946. It's not that far away. If you go to Denmark and you take basically a bus and a train, you can reach it. I know it's easy to say, of course. No, that's, that's, you, you said the right words, bus and train, because I cannot drive yet in Europe. I'm too scared. I'll get there. I'll get there. But wow, man, that's fascinating. I'm so happy. Thank you for sharing that that story with us. Well, hey, we are going to head over to Patreon to hear about a modern day men in black case that you were able to uncover. cover, which I'm really interested to hear about. So, guys, if you want to hear that story, head over to Patreon to hear that. Fred's going to stick around and tell us that story.

And maybe one or two more of his other favorite UFO cases out of Sweden. But before we go here, Fred, on the main feed, can you tell us what else you're up to? Do you have any plans of more articles coming up or filming? I know you do. lot of filming as well. Let us know if there's anything you can tease for us. Well, keep an eye on my Medium account. I have a couple of articles coming out. I might even talk a little bit about one of those cases on the Patreon version of this. Currently, I'm the story producer for Spokejacht, which is a huge paranormal show. They're in the UK right now, filming one episode. And I'm also waiting for,

for the first test print of my new book. Because what are podcasts for? I've written a book, yes. And I hope that book will be out in next month. In March. No, this is February, March, yeah. It's called Northern Lights, High Strangeness in Sweden, where I only writes about weird, weird cases,

from the 20s up to the late 80s or early 90s, often related to humanoid and flying saucers and time rifts and other kinds of wonderful things. Awesome. Well, we'll definitely have to have you back on to talk about the book when it comes out. That sounds really, really interesting. Well, where can we find all of your work and everything you're up to? Well, outside my medium account where I publish all my articles, basically, I would say that

best way to hang out with me is on Twitter. The infamous Twitter nowadays, I was almost on my way away from there, but I'm there. I have a lot of friends. And my name there is Humu satanis. It's quite easy to find. And I also have an Instagram, Homo satanis, where there's a lot of old UFO books and sometimes cases I write about and other weird stuff. So I would say those are the best places to hang out with me. And I'm one of the good guys because I'm following back, if you're not assholes, of course.

Exactly, exactly. Guys, all the links to Fred's social media can be found in the show notes below. So be sure to follow him. and I really am looking forward to your book. But we're going to head over to Patreon right now to hear a story about the modern men-in-black encounter that Fred was able to dig up. And another case that you might see in his upcoming book as well.

So Fred, thank you so much for finally joining me as a proper guest on Summer in the Skies today. Thank you.