Somewhere in the Skies - The Westall UFO Incident: 60 Years Later (w/ Grant Lavac)

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

* Get 15% OFF Anomalous Cards with promo code: SOMEWHERE15. Learn more and order at: https://www.letsgetanomalous.com/ Sixty years ago, in the quiet suburb of Westall, Australia, an extraordinary event unfolded that would become one of the most compelling mass UFO sightings in history. On April 6th, 1966, hundreds of students and teachers at Westall High School witnessed strange aerial objects maneuvering in ways that defied explanation… and possibly even landing nearby. Yet despite the sheer number of eyewitnesses, the case was quickly buried, dismissed, and, according to many, deliberately silenced. In this special anniversary episode, Ryan is joined by Australian UFO researcher and host of The Unexplained Rundown, Grant Lavac, to revisit the Westall incident through the voices of those who were there. From firsthand testimonies of schoolchildren who saw flying saucers hovering and darting across the sky, to reports of a rapid military response, witness intimidation, and confiscated evidence, the layers of this mystery only deepen with time. Together, they break down the key witness accounts, including those who claim the object landed, leaving physical traces, and explore the enduring questions: What did these students really see? Why were they told to stay silent? And why, six decades later, has no official explanation ever been given? Watch Grant's documentary on Westall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2imy_KgG5s Watch the ABC special on Westall: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-06/the-westall-ufo-mystery-/106528518 Shane Ryan doc: https://www.primevideo.com/detail/0MZEPRQJ9ZTP30Z7F5SRZU4P4L/ref=atv_dp_share_cu_r Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ PayPal: [e-mail] Substack: https://ryansprague.substack.com/ All Socials and Books: https://linktr.ee/somewhereskiespod Follow Suzanne on X: https://x.com/csuzannelanders Email: [e-mail] SpectreVision Radio: https://www.spectrevision.com/podcasts Opening Theme Song by Septembryo Closing Song by Per Kiilstofte Livestream Music by Punch Deck: https://www.youtube.com/@PunchDeck Copyright © 2026 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. #Australia #UnsolvedMystery #TrueStory #Paranormal #Aliens #Disclosure #Mystery #highstrangeness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Specter Vision Radio While our government's official position is not to speculate on this subject, we can choose to let our minds explore other possibilities to use our imaginations. For if we consider the astroscientists agree on one point, that the possibility of life elsewhere is not only quite probable, some field is there without a doubt. Let us suppose them that these objects are real space vehicles,

extraterrestrial origin, and not an illusion of the mind. This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan Sprague. No one goes to Hank's for his spreadsheets. They go for a darn good pizza. Lately though, the shop's been quiet. So Hank decides to bring back the $1 slice. He asks co-pilot in Microsoft Excel to look at his sales and costs. To help him see if he can afford it.

Copilot shows Hank where the money's going and which little extras make the dollar slice work. Now, Hank says, line out the door. Hank makes the pizza. Copilot handles the spreadsheets. Learn more at M365 copilot.com slash work. Grant LeVoc, welcome back to the show, my friend. It's a pleasure to be with you again, Ryan. Thanks for, thanks for having on.

It's a, it's been a wall in between drinks. That's good to chat with you again. It is, my friend. And I, people know when you're on the show, we're going to Australia. And there's a very good reason. We're celebrating the 60th anniversary of Australia, perhaps Australia, at least one of the biggest cases to ever come out of your country. And that's the Westall case of 1966. So, um, I thought tonight we'd celebrate.

in fashion, why not get an expert on all things Australian UFOs to kind of walk us through this event that I feel, and I'm sure you feel, just has not gotten the attention it deserves outside of Australia, right? Yeah, I mean, it really hasn't. It wasn't really until your James Fox profiled the Westall case in the phenomenon of 2020, that it really started to gain some interest. and it's kind of been increasingly becoming increasingly in the public eye since then. So there have been a few other documentaries that have come out since the phenomenon and some TV specials and news programs. Only one was aired earlier this week on the actual 60th anniversary.

So there seems to have been a nice uptick in public interest and exposure. of the Westall case in the in the in the last five, six years, which is really, really promising. And honors, obviously what the witnesses is experienced and have lived with for 60 years. Right.

And you know, like I'm all about the witnesses. So I'm excited tonight to kind of break down those witnesses. Because I think, again, this is such a rare case. It's a UFO landing. We don't have that many well documented landing cases.

We might have, you know, these very anecdotal cases where one person saw it and we have to rely on one testimony. But this one, we have dozens and dozens of school children. We even have some teachers, which we'll get to as well. But not only that, we have most of the witnesses still alive, which is really important too. Exactly. So I'm excited to kind of talk about it.

Yeah, right, right. And you had the opportunity to actually interview a bunch of these witnesses as well, and they all did a get-together on the anniversary too. So I thought maybe we would break down those individual witness testimonies with you. But, of course, for anyone who's not familiar with the Westall case, we've got to get kind of the rundown, the unexplained rundown of it. So why not have you start there? Dive in it. I mean, it's a truly fascinating case. I mean, it's obviously the largest, you know, mass siding in Australia's history.

And one of the largest mass sightings, I think, in the in the southern hemisphere. And it's such an enigma because it has so many interesting and fascinating and fantastical facets to it. I mean, in summary, 6 of April, 1966 at Westall High School in Melbourne, Victoria. There is a physical education class, PE class happening in the sports oval, and all of a sudden a schoolgirl bursts into one of the classrooms, a science class that was being conducted by science teacher Andrew Greenwood, who was about 20, 22 years of age at the time. And this schoolgirl burst in the classroom. So there's Mr. Greenwood, there's a flying saucer. And there is obviously commotion and rumblings around the classroom. and Mr. Greenwood was still teaching,

so kind of told everyone to, you know, calm themselves and wait for the recess bell. And this all happened at around about 10, 15 a.m. And then five, 10 minutes later, the school recess bell rang. And many of the students just, like a mass exodus, flooded the sports oval, where, you know, the school population, the total number of students, was around about, I believe, according to Andrew Greenwood's count, you know, 500, 600 students.

And he's commented publicly that, you know, he believes it was approximately half of the student population that was in the sports oval that may have seen this. So we're talking upwards of, you know, 300 students that may have seen an object or objects in the sky above Westall High School. And so these students are out in the sports oval and they look up and, It's a bit ambiguous. Some see one, some see up to three, objects in the sky above their school, that they're not able to readily reconcile, identify, or explain. Some comment that the object or objects are hovering and then accelerate and move quite erratically at different speeds and that they resemble the shape of a flying saucer.

There is a distinct humming sound as one of the objects hovers or motions towards a power pylon at the southwestern corner of the school. And then you have it going even much further than that. And a number of the witnesses commenting that before you knew it, there were up to five light aircraft like Cessna-type planes that were essentially trying to chase these objects in the sky, in Andrew Greenwood's words, much like a game of cat and mouse trying to follow or get near to this object or objects

that were seen in the sky. And then they motioned to a densely wooded area south of the school called the Grange, where a lot of the students would have their monthly cross-country runs. And it was reported that one of these objects descended and either came into contact with the ground or hovered just above it and was witnessed by some of the students that made their way to the Grange and kind of jumped the school fence and wanted to see exactly what it was. And again, these objects were observed to be moving in ways that they could not readily explain. Some of them saying that it just turned on its side and it was then off like a bullet being shot out of a gun.

That's my way of paraphrasing, but moving at incredible sprues. feeds that was not consistent with objects of the time that they were aware of, like light aircraft or like, you know, recreational, you know, balloons. What are they, the balloons that you can go up in these days and weather balloons and those sorts of objects. So moved in ways that were extraordinary and beyond their explanation. Wow. Oh, okay. That's a lot. There's so many to digest.

And that's just scratching the surface. Exactly. I know. And we will dig deeper. Again, we're going to go through four of the key witnesses to the event and actually get their in-depth testimony that you put on the record, which is so cool. But, you know, one thing really stuck out to me when you were talking there, the idea that this craft turned on its side to leave.

Now, there is a somewhat famous photo in the UFO world, possibly, possibly of one of these craft doing that, which we will get to a little bit later. But let's rewind a little bit, Grant. Now, keeping in mind the time period, we had, you know, the Cold War was going on between Russia, the United States. We were getting our tentacles on all these other countries to help us out during the Cold War, of which Australia was one of them too. So we always have to keep those things in mind as the backdrop to these UFO events, because they can play an often pivotal role. Like you mentioned, there were aircraft, presumably Australian military aircraft,

that pursued these objects, as you mentioned. There's even, you know, a famous headline. five pilots, you know, still to be named or what is it? Yeah. And what's interesting is, you know, only a few kilometers, a couple of miles away from the school, is an airport called Marabin Airport. And it's always been, you know, posited that, well, were these aircraft from Marabin Airport? Were they civilian aircraft or were they military aircraft that was flown out of a different base? There's unfortunately not a whole lot of information about the aircraft and the pilots behind them. That's been a source of frustration for researchers and the students for many years,

that there's not a lot of information that's come to light regarding those aircraft and the identity of the pilots. But just another fascinating element to the case that you've got several hundred students and teachers, and even folks that aren't even students that are off-site in different locations, seeing incredible things in the sky. And then you have light aircraft that they were able to readily identify because the school was so close to the airport, and the students would see light aircraft going towards and coming from the airport so frequently.

And you can easily hear aircraft from the ground when you look up in the sky. So it certainly wasn't an aircraft that they were familiar with if it was aircraft that they were seeing. But again, it was not consistent with any known aircraft that we're aware of at the time because they all commented that it looked very flying saucer in shape. And a lot of the witnesses have over the years drawn what they recall they saw. And quite clearly, it looks like a flying saucer, a plate that you would turn over and have a flat bottom and a kind of hump or a mounded top. So they certainly saw something,

and I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall on the day because they've been searching for answers ever since. And unfortunately, the government and Department of Defense have never provided any, which is incredibly frustrating. Right, right. And I know you're still pursuing that, which I do want to touch on later on as well. But you mentioned to fly on the wall. Now, you were a fly on the wall recently when you went into an event where a lot of the witnesses gathered together.

They do this often where they get together to kind of keep the story alive, try to get the government involved, find some explanations for what they experienced back then. And you put together a wonderful documentary on your channel, the unexplained rundown, which will obviously link and send everyone over to. let's bring us into that. Like what was this event that you went to? And maybe we can start with Maryland, Maryland Eastwood, I thought, one of the primary witnesses. One of the primary witnesses. So yeah, every year or for many years, the witnesses have gathered. They've reunited at the Grange, this wooded area south of the school where one of the objects was reported to have landed or come in a close

contact with the ground and each year on or around the anniversary of the Westall incident around the 6th of April each year they would gather at the Grange a number of the primary witnesses some years there would be more some years there would be less and it was just an opportunity for them as students on that were there on the day to get together and share their memories and recollections but also an opportunity for members of the general public to hear from them directly and ask them questions. And that's exactly what I did a couple of years ago. I was made aware of the annual reunion event that their witnesses had planned. And I went down there not knowing a whole lot about the Westall case. This was back in 2023. I only knew about it

quite superficially. And I took my iPhone down there with me, you know, not ever planning to end up making a documentary. But the witnesses that were there were so very given. and generous of their time and quite happy to go on camera and just answer questions that the general public had. And before I knew it, I had a couple of hours of footage collected on my iPhone that I thought, you know, this would make a really quite nice companion piece to maybe some of the other documentaries, the great documentaries that have already been put out there, to provide some long form content in terms of interviews and testimony that these witnesses gave. And so So Marilyn Eastwood was 13 years of age on the day of the Westall Flying Sorsa Incident,

the 6th of April, 1966. She's now Marilyn Smith. And she was in the Sports Oval on the day of the event, and she looked up into the sky, and she saw an object that, to her, resembled that of a flying saucer in shape, hovering above the, you know, in the sky above the school. there were other objects she's not entirely sure or maybe cannot concretely confirm how many she saw over the course of the whole incident but she certainly saw at least one object in the sky above the school and it made a humming noise as it kind of motioned towards the power pylon at the southwestern corner of the school and she commented something she had never seen ever before

and it moved in ways that she wasn't able to reconcile or identify. And, you know, after it happened, her and a couple of her schoolmates kind of sat on the school fence thinking that the world was going to end. It was quite a, you know, it was quite an exhilarating, but also a traumatic experience for them to have seen what they did. So, and Marilyn is incredibly compelling. I mean, I peppered her with a lot of questions when I had an opportunity to met her. And I've, you know, had an opportunity to speak with her a number of occasions now.

And just, you know, so just looks you straight at the eye and very compelling and sincere and genuine in what she recalls. And, you know, obviously memories fade over the years. And I think that's one of the reasons why the witnesses like to reunite once a year is to kind of keep their memories as fresh as they can. But incredibly compelling testimony of what she saw. And she went into specifics as to size, you know, how high in the sky she recalled it appeared. She indicated that there were lights at the bottom of the object, but she couldn't recall the color of the lights. So she certainly provided some very, very interesting details that provided a visual in my mind as to what it was that she was looking at on the day. So incredibly compelling account that she offered.

Awesome. Well, yeah, what we're going to do is we're actually going to interject some of that footage that you recorded with the witnesses here. So this would be a good time to introduce you guys to Marilyn. So we're going to hear straight from Maryland right now. Basically, kids were screaming and so forth, get out into the oval. And, yeah, there was flying source looked up in the air. and there was one just hovering in a playground. So it was more than more than one?

More than one. There was three. Right. Yeah. And how far is the school from here? From here? Just a couple of blocks over. Yeah.

So it's not that far. Right. And do you recall, did you run to the Grange or did you just? We did at lunch time. During our break, we left we were supposed to. But yes, you know, kids being kids. Yeah. And we all came over here and

and what I saw was where it actually landed. Right. So all the glass, the grass was flattened in a circular, you know, area. And has that area since been covered over with, right, okay. And that was over that area over there, behind us. Would you know where the location is if you had to try and track it down? Oh yeah, we've sort of been down that road. Yeah, right. Okay.

So, um. And was it your impression that something had landed there? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yes, yes. Right. And, of course, when we got back to school, we all got detention and got the trouble on and so on and so.

Told you not to talk about it. Yeah. But the speed at this flying saucer or these flying saucers moved that was incredible. It was just unbelievable. You know, I mean, it just didn't, you know. How would you describe the movement? Yeah, right. Just straight up and gone.

Okay. Yeah. Vertical, horizontal. And then turned and. Incredible. Right. Yeah, just amazing. And this was it around.

about recess time in the morning that it happened in the morning? Yeah, just before recess because we had a student that came into our classroom hysterical, leaning up against the door saying, oh, I saw a flying, there's a flying source, we're in the backyard, which is what we called them in those days. And everybody got up to run out, the teacher said, sit down, you know, it's not recess, and then the bell went off and she had no control. So we all just, everybody ran outside into the, you know, oval. And at the recess point, my friend and I were sitting on the fence and we were crying,

thinking it was the end of the world, you know, because it was seriously scary. And how long would you say it would have taken you to get from the school to this area here? Was it? 20 minutes. Okay. Go through. Yeah. And did they seem to move from the reports I've heard that they hovered over the school and then moved in this area?

Yes, they did. They seemed to rise and disappear. Yep. and that went on for, you know, a certain period of time. And that was why, because I were heading over towards this area, that's why we came over here. And there were several groups of kids. Yeah.

I was a one group, and there were several others as well. So everybody has their own, you know, story on what they saw, what they experienced, how they felt. And do you happen to recall how quickly after the event happened that there were reports of military or people of the... the Air Force or police that arrived at that until because it was the last day of school before the holidays so that sort of surfaced in the weeks after yep I never saw any military but some of my schoolmates did yeah so I can only say what I saw what you experienced and were yourself and

children instructed not to talk about it oh yes yes that afternoon and Channel 9 arrived at the school, around about home time, and there were several of us that were interviewed by Channel 9. And we got detention for that. They were asked to leave. Okay. That footage has disappeared. Never been found.

I remember reading on one of the Facebook groups, Shane Ryan said that it did air that evening, but then since then the footage has been... That's right, which is really sad. It has vanished or been destroyed or whatever. As I was saying to one of the gentlemen before about the movie, the phenomenon, and that group of African children that actually were filmed at that particular time of the sighting that they had. And 30 years later, they were re-interviewed.

And they record everything exactly as they said. Yeah, gotcha. But we can't do that because of footage that was taken of us. Yeah, yeah. I was also interviewed by Kevin Arnett. A few years later, around about 1977. He came to a house in Clayton and interviewed me then, but he's since died and that footage is also. It's also gone. Wow.

So it's, yeah, very scary, as in, you know, they're sort of keeping it hush, hush. Do you have a sense as to how Channel 9 would have been made aware that there was an incident that happened over the school? They have just been monitoring the activity of the response of the ambulance. Because there are lots of light aircraft also. Obviously, they had seen. The rabbit's not far away, right. and there were light aircraft in there so they were possibly reported that okay and then you know i mean the news reporters and that they're on the scene pretty quickly really really quickly yeah and it was it

was it something at the time that that you and your friends would openly discuss with your parents or yeah and what what was the reaction of your parents i was always a bit of a Bernie as a kid i was the time of where you know so they sort of just took it with a grain of salt watch what was on tv and was there ever any concern from from parents that something not Not my parents, no. No, nothing I did would shock them. Yeah. So.

Because it's interesting that you have reports of some people seeing folks in the Grange area with, with metal detectors or Geiger counters and those sorts of things. And if there was some sort of radiation exposure, then that might be a significant concern, concern for parents. Yeah, but I don't recall any of that at the time. Yeah. Because we're talking, you know, 57 years ago. 57 years this year, isn't it?

Yeah. That's right. Right. Did your parents, if I can also ask a question? Did your parents offer some explanation of what these flying saucers might actually have been? No. Not at all. They didn't.

No, they were just fascinated with what had happened also. I know trying to soak it all in. Yeah. But, you know, but in the same sense, thinking that maybe I'd made some of it up because I was that type of kid. But it wasn't. And as time passed, they realized that it was, you know, it wasn't fabricated that it actually did happen. Is it something that the kids would talk about and the school halls for months and afterwards?

Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, after the break, yes, when it came back. Yeah. Absolutely. And were the rumours rife as to, you know, what may have led to that incident or what the explanation behind? Probably more so today as time's going on than then. Yeah, gotcha. Because we were all like, you know, we really didn't know.

Yeah. We really didn't know what it transpired and how it all happened and was it going to happen again. And, you know, like I said, was at the end of the world. But, you know, since this has become more public and since all the sightings that have happened and the USA have come forward saying, oh, yes, there is something out there. So everyone's starting to believe that this actually really did happen. Yeah. Because it is the most famous sighting in the world.

However, certainly one of the largest mass sightings in the world of children, comparable with, I guess, the Ariel School in Zimbabwe with children that witnessed something land and some sort of things. And all those years later, they can still recall what happened, as I said before. Did you ever draw or write down? your recollections after the event or is it something? Only when I've been asked to, but no, I haven't, I did start to write a book,

but I haven't sort of finished that, that's a work in progress. Yeah. But it's not specifically related to that, it's about my life in general. Okay. Pardon me, but kids being kids, we all have different stories to tell of how we felt, what we saw. So, you know, as a kid, you'd say, oh, yeah, well, they're exaggerating, whatever. But I don't discount anybody.

Yeah. And because the yanks now, I've said, oh, yes, it really did happen. Well, they've admitted UFOs are real, aren't they? Absolutely. And this is a only piece of real estate in our universe. Wow, man, that was really, really fascinating. Again, I think it's so important to visualize, like you said, what was going on. we go through these witnesses, it'll start to paint a bigger picture. And we could start making the

connections between, of course, like you mentioned, memory fades, perception is going to be different of certain things. But there will be a core story behind all of this. And it really started with Maryland there, which I think is interesting. But what about Susan? Susan Jones. Can you tell us a little about her? So Susan Jones, a 13 years of age on the day of the Westall incident. She now goes by Susan Hill, good friend of Marilyn Smith. They lived, I believe, the houses were behind each other. And she was in a group close to Marilyn in the Sports Oval on the day. And same thing.

She looked up in the sky and she saw an object that resembled that of a flying saucer that was hovering and moving in ways that she couldn't readily explain. Now, she only saw one object, even though it was reported. from other students that there were maybe up to three. And everyone's at different locations. If you're looking at something in the sky that's caught your eye, you tend to, I know I tend to focus on that object, and I kind of don't have my peripherals open

as to what else is going on on either side. So she only reported seeing one object. And I really gathered from Susan that her source of frustration was that she was told to shut up about it, as were so many other students. They were told that, you know, you're not to tell, talk of this didn't happen and and I think that's really you know been a stuck in their grill for for all these decades thereafter that they were told that you know the what they saw was diminished

they were basically you know cast away cast to the side saying you you know you're not to talk about this it was nothing of consequence didn't happen you know move along folks nothing to see here basically. And that's also true of the headmaster. There was a special assembly called later in the day. And the headmaster, Mr. Sambleby, basically reiterated that, that you're not to talk about it. We don't want, you know, maybe his position was we don't want any disrepute to come on the school, this to get out in the media and Westall to be ever known as the UFO school, which consequently it's now, obviously it's historic. for this particular event.

But that was, I really got that source of frustration from Susan when talking to her. So much like Marilyn, she saw an object in the sky above the school that resembled a flying source that moved in ways that she wasn't familiar with. Wow. Yeah. And, you know, I can understand to an extent why the principal of a school would why want to kind of, you know, calm the nerves, not let this get. too out of hand because at that point you're playing damage control when it comes to any UFO case

it's always um it's almost a reaction to an event that already happened because that it's so fleeting um it's not like you're dealing with a UFO invasion right then and maybe maybe that was the case or was going to be the case but i i can understand to an extent why the principal would want to do to do that um what about you do you yeah i mean and i just it's it It kind of makes me remember back to when I was at school. And, you know, if there was something that was quite serious in nature that happened, there would be a special assembly called. And it may not necessarily have been the principal,

but someone that was in senior leadership in the school, would basically, you know, really kind of set the record straight for you and say, you know, this is gone too far. It's taking away from your learning and what you're here to do. as students and study. We don't want this to get out into the community and reflect poorly on the school. So I can kind of see just from my own experience of things that happened when I was at school that maybe that's where the headmaster, Mr. Sambleby's thinking was coming from. But I was never told that school, if something happened, that you're to shut up about this,

you never talk about it. That's unique to the Westall case, certainly for these several hundred students that received that instruction from the headmaster. And it's not just the students as well. There was also threats of intimidation against one of the teachers, Mr. Andrew Greenwood, which we can talk about as we go through. But, you know, that again, being told not to talk about something that you have experienced, I can't imagine how frustrating that would have been and sat with the witnesses for as many decades. as it has. Absolutely. And like you said, you can hear it in both Marilyn and Susan's voices. Let's cut to Susan and hear from her about her personal testimony as well. So we'll do that right here.

Marilyn lived behind me, the house behind me. We live near the state school, the primary school. And what do you recall happened from the moment that there was a commotion? on the day, I guess. I was in the science class when the girl ran in and said that she'd seen a flowing saucer. So you were in Mr Greenwood's class? Right. And we all loved it. And got in trouble for laughing.

And he went out, and I think we followed out after that. And everyone in the Oval were all looking up. So I looked up where they looked up, and I kept my eyes on it and kept my eyes on it. And then all of a sudden I went to see who else was looking when I was gone. And do you remember? So I didn't see it go. How many children were in the Oval at the time you came out? It's quite a decent number.

It's quite a decent number. And how many, what do you remember seeing? Was it one object, more than one object? I had my eyes fixed on one. I didn't look anywhere else except to see who was standing near me and then it was gone. I looked back and I couldn't find it after that. And did you, do you remember there were a lot of children that were moving towards the Grange area? Oh, I went into the Grange.

Right. Yeah, we, that's where we did the cross-country run. Yeah. And we all down a bit further. And we all ran, I don't know how we knew where to run, because it landed behind the trees. And we just seemed to know where to run. And we ran right to where it landed and saw the flattened circles. It wasn't there.

but we see where it landed. The impression or indentation. Do you remember if you had to guess what sort of size it was diameter-wise, if you've got a frame of references to, I mean if the UFO playground installation they've created over there, would you say it's similar in size to that? Yeah, I'd say so, yeah. But there was about three from the memories where it's...

They tried to say, oh, the cows would all lie down in the circle. This was a complete flattened. the graphes yeah and did you see any signs of singeing or burn just just yeah yeah got you i don't think i saw any side of anything but i've asked this question to others but is it something that you discussed with your parents after it happened or it was something they would just laugh at me right they'd make a joke about it all and we were told the stigma of the times perhaps and uh you know I think, I was just saying before, we now live in an age where with the US, not just the US Department of Defense, but also the scientific community taking this more seriously. I think it's starting to break down the walls of stigma and ridicule around the topic, which is long overdue.

I think back now, and I think on my father always read the paper, the local paper and the herald son. and there was things in the paper, why he didn't come out and say to it, did you say that I thought? Never said a word. Yeah. If it happened today in 2023, what do you think would be vastly different? I'll get the phone out. Yeah, right.

Number one, exactly. Well, on that, do you remember the teacher, I believe, was Mrs or Ms. Muir, Jeanette Muir, that was a led, reported to have taken photo. on the school camera? No, that was Mrs. Robinson. Oh, Robinson, okay, I got that wrong, Mrs. Robinson. And...

No, I only heard that she got the film, or she either got the camera or the film taken out of the camera. Confiscated. I think reports say the whole camera went here. The whole thing. I just going to say that. I think she can't. And I remember seeing her at the assembly,

we had to stand in line at this assembly about for ages. I think I nearly fainted. I don't normally fainted. We had to stand there for so long for some reason. And I remember seeing her, and she was all red-faced and cranky and angry looking. I mean, she had wear hair anyway. She looked very out of sorts. Right, okay.

I didn't like to look about it. Then Mr. Sam will be that went last. I didn't like to look. He and me looked really agitated and Frankie too. I just wanted to get out of there. I couldn't wait to get out. Do you remember of any students being questioned by members of the military or what may have looked like government after the event?

I mean, I know there was Tanya, I think it was Tanya Vassi that came forward. I don't really recall seeing the military there myself. Okay. Was it something that was discussed amongst the children in the corridors of the school for weeks afterwards? I know. No, no. No, because we got talking.

at assembly, we didn't see it, not to talk about it. And I thought, oh, good. I don't want to talk about it. Everyone looks cranky and angry and horrible, and I didn't want to bar of it. It sounded like it was just a bad day, wasn't it? Yeah, it was horrible. So I move along, folks, nothing more to see here sort of thing, yeah.

I remember back then you were frightened of the teachers, weren't you? Yeah, well, we were frightened of the teachers. Right. Very authoritarian. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You couldn't speak back or speak up. No, no.

Because kids were seen and not heard in them day. You know, don't speak in their head phone. That's right. He's never heard here, an adult conversation. I remember Victor's a prisoner getting called into the headmaster and he, yeah, he more or less acknowledged what he saw, but he said it's not for him saying or doing anything about it. Do you think the teachers were instructed not to talk about it and they were passing that instruction onto you?

Or is it just, come on, we've got to get on with school life again? I think them men in black, which I didn't see, had spoke to them all and said, you know, don't encourage the kids. Don't, you know, about talking about it. Well, that's what I think. Yeah, yeah. And do you think there is government knowledge of, of, what? What happened that day? I'm sure there'd have to be.

You can't have things in the sky and all the military. I worked with someone whose father went. He worked at the military in Adanong there, and they're the ones that come out. Yeah, right. And he said he remembers his father going out there, but his father had not been well and then passed away, so we didn't get anything more often.

But he, you know, fully believes that that's what we saw that day because they were pulled out and they went there. I was saying, Paul, it's fascinating that even 57 years after, there's still no formal explanation as to what it was or what it wasn't. And the Department of Supply that apparently investigated it, their assessment or reports vanished. It's never been discovered. It's a case that they kept by the 57 years ago. Yeah, I really don't care if it was a UFO or what it was. I was mainly upset because we were, you know, we were told that we didn't see something we know we saw it.

I just want to know why we weren't allowed to talk about it. Being shut down, not able to talk about something that you clearly saw on the day. I'm more upset about that than trying to find out. exactly what it was or anything. All right, there was Susan, another one of the primary witnesses to the Westall event. Let's move to Joy, Joy Clark. I'd love to hear a little bit about what she experienced. And yeah, can you kind of run us through that one, Grant?

So Joy Clark on the day, Joy Tyg was her, now she was 12 and a half. and she has really been one of the most vocal witnesses over the decades. She's very much, I believe, kind of comes across as a real advocate for the other witnesses that maybe aren't as confident and comfortable to talk and speak up. So she's really been a good, you know, one of the many leaders in the witness community that have kind of encouraged them to be, you're open to talking about their experience and keeping their memories alive. And so she was 12 and a half on the day of the incident.

Again, she was in the sports oval, different position to where Marilyn and Susan were. But she reported seeing up to three objects in the sky that were distinct to her as flying saucer in shape. And that is quite the contrast to what some of the other witnesses observed, only one object. So and Joy often positions that, you know, well, everyone may have seen something slightly differently because depending where they were in the sports oval, where their focus was, what group that they were with, what time they came out on the sports oval and saw the objects. Case in point, Andrew Greenwood came out onto the sports oval and what he described was somewhat different to what some of the primary witnesses saw. He didn't describe what he saw as being flying saucer in shape. He described it as looking slightly different. But Joy is very unique in that sense that she saw up to three objects resembling flying saucers in the sky.

And, you know, come lunchtime, a lot of the students kind of, you know, took it upon themselves to get a closer look. So they scaled the school fence and school boundary fence and kind of high tailings. it to the Grange area to see, you know, what is there something still there? What happened? And many of them reported seeing kind of a circular area of flattened grass in the, in the, in the, in the grains that was almost perfectly circular and it just it just looks like something had landed or come into close contact with the ground. Some reported seeing scorch marks, scorched earth, Others don't recall that. They just see this perfectly circular pattern in the long grass, in the grain.

So Joy's account incredibly compelling, just the way that she recalls and recounts what she saw. And she often says to folks that will challenge her, you know, mostly respectfully, but sometimes she has been put in a position where someone's trying to ridicule her or discount, you know, pour cold water over what she's seen. And she'll actually ask them openly and says, were you there on the day? And they'll say no. And she'll come back and say, well, I was. And I know what I saw.

I saw something and you can't take that away from me. So, you know, I really, I find Joy's account to be incredibly compelling and unique in that she saw three objects, not just the one. Right. Right. Good for her, man. I love that. You were not there. I was. That is, that is, yeah. That is a mic drop if I've ever heard one. I love it. Well, let's, let's hear, let's hear from Joy. We'll play her witness testimony right here. We all saw the same things, but some of us might have thought it looked, you know, I mean, but we were kids too. But what we saw is what we saw, and we all bloody will saw it.

Yeah. Or them, I should say. At the end of the diary, you saw something and you then have to interpret it based on your knowledge. Yes. And everybody comes up. I always say to, why in heaven's name would you have army, air force, police, men in black, you know, ambulance people. What for? A weather blowing? Yeah, right.

So what do they think we were? And I mean, they were there for a long time. They weren't just there for, weren't they? They were hanging around. Yeah. They're coming and going all after you know. They were there for a couple of days. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Well, Paul was in the market garden, sea soup, see. From the siding, from the first siding, how long was it before these people showed up? 20 minutes. Oh, there you go. All right. See? They're coming on it.

So they're obviously tracking whatever it was that was. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And they had, apparently had all the roads closed off and all sorts of stuff. So it was just, you know, that was also a couple of planes, little planes as well. They were certain. Yeah. They were having plane kept the house. Yeah that's what we see. Not that I see them but that's what um yeah over the bylines they were it. It was weird. Is what the craft was?

Yeah that was like the craft we're offering and the craft yeah. Yeah the planes. Yeah the plane, the small planes at one or two people um you know from the airport. Oh, they're little sussias? Yeah. And they were circling. Yeah. It was about the rubber airport. Oh, really?

So there was a... Where one landed, is it more over this way? There are numerous landing sides. But where Terry was, is over the back here. Right. Right? Is one through here and over the back? And that was on the ground in front of her.

Yeah. And she saw it lift off. There are two other girls that were with her. One had passed out and the other one ran out. and the other one ran out screaming. Yes. So one of the time remembers burn marks. Yeah, well I've got a photo.

Actually, I didn't bring up, but there's a photo of me standing in one of the burn out surface where I got taken down the following day by the then Victorian UFO Society who came to our house to interview me and my older sister, because she was there as well. And we didn't even have the phone on it. So I don't even know how they got our address. Oh, but they did.

Was that there, was it? Does that Judith Nakeet? No, no, no. I'm not, there was American, Paul Norman. Yeah, Paul Norman, another man and a very glamorous blonde. And they came to my house and with my parents, we sat at the kitchen table. I had my mum and my dad, my brother, my older sister, and they interviewed me and then they took me down. They come back again, two days later, and they took me down here somewhere, and took the photo of me standing in.

standing in. Oh, I've got it. Oh, he's got it. Fantastic. For those of you that we're in the Grange on the day, do the surrounds look similar to what they were back then? Was it more... Well, it's not even hard, is it?

No. It was more dense? All the trees? Right. It went from the school. None of this housing. Yeah. We're all from the school, like the primary school.

We were market gardens. Paddocks. This. trees, you know, like grass up here, bush drinks, you know, all, yeah. It was miles and miles. We used to have our cross-country roads here. Right, yeah. We just disappeared for hours.

Yeah. And it's the same way, like I can remember the house. Yeah, that's right. Do you remember the old one that was in, being around here, the old, you know, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. The old house. Richmond Grange.

Richmond Grange, that's right. It was too. It was an old house and it had an old, Well, yeah, the concrete well. I remember that. And there were abandoned cars in here, and it was where all the kids come down and smoke and we did the door of the bus. Not preaching any of those teenagers do. Ah, yes, yes. It's a new place to be. Yeah, right. Yeah, I used to ride my pushback down here and they. All right, there you go. Again, a prime example like you,

mentioned of, you know, the experience being somewhat subjective and different for each student at the time when this happened. And that's okay. Like, you know, if they all had the same exact story, I would be a little skeptical grant or if they vary too much. But the Westall case has always been in that really good middle ground where it's like you can understand why students would kind of have different opinions on what was going on or what they had seen. Eventually a lot of them would go on to sketch the objects that they witnessed. And of course, they're all going to differ. They all have different artistic skills.

They all convey that differently. So I think that's important too. Yeah, I think of it as the Chinese whispers. By the time a sentence or comment has gone around the room, everyone will have a slightly different interpretation and take on it. And I think that's true of what we see and what we recall as well. We'll all convey things creatively in a slightly different manner. But one of the things that's really interesting about Joy and many of the other witnesses

is they all report observations of there being a rapid military response shortly after the incident. So, you know, as quick as 20 minutes after the incident had concluded, that there was a military presence in the Grange area, this wooded area, and that the area was cordoned off. There were military personnel that came in in Jeeps, potentially a truck. Again, not 100% on that. But there were reports of military personnel in this wooded area in the Grange

using devices that look like Geiger counters or metal detectors, and there were samples, soil samples, that were taken off-site. So that's another incredible, it makes you wonder why, one, if there was such a rapid military response, well, obviously what was observed in the sky above West of High School was being tracked. And two, why was evidence taken off-site? They either knew what it was,

they didn't and if something did come down was it recovered in part or incomplete or was there residue that they had taken off site for whatever reason so you're why there was such a rapid military response remains unknown to this day and that's one of the the lines of inquiry that so many researchers including myself has tried to get the bottom to is well why would there be such a rapid military response. If it was a prosaic object, well, that's a question that's worth asking. But if it's something that wasn't prosaic and doesn't have a ready explanation for, well, then that's a true crash retrieval account of UAP, UFO flying saucer. And we've heard time and time again of there being allegations of crash retrieval teams.

not just in the United States, but in other countries around the world as well. So you can't discount that if it wasn't a prosaic object. Well, what was it and why is it being recovered? Exactly. Yeah, really good questions, right. It reminds me so much of the Cash Landrum case where that diamond-shaped craft in Texas was being pursued by Chinook military helicopters at the time. So, again, was it some sort of top secret military aircraft?

that was being ushered somewhere or pursued. And then you asked that question of the Westall incident as well. It is fascinating, Grant. Wow, yeah, that I couldn't believe how quick the response by the military was to this case. When I actually sat down and looked at the kind of timeline, I'm like, oh, my God, they were definitely pursuing that thing. Yeah, definitely. They knew about it. It was being tracked probably on radar, so they're well and truly aware of it.

And, you know, it begs the question. what were they what were they tracking what were they attempting to to recover was it and and we can kind of get into the theories as to what some of the the the explanations that are out there no hypotheses that have been put forward but what was it that they knew about that they were trying to that were they were so keen to retrieve right right yeah yeah I definitely want to go through some of those theories with you um Paul Smith that was kind of the last um main witness that you spoke to in your interviews there. And what I find compelling about this one is he's a little older. Like a lot of the other witnesses were in the preteen sort of age, but you've got a 16 year old

at the time with this event, which is important too, that you have older kids who might have a whole different perspective on what was going on too. So yeah, can you maybe give us a little intro to Paul Smith and his involvement? So Paul's account is fascinating. He's incredibly unique too because he wasn't a student. He wasn't actually on the school grounds. He was a market gardener that was harvesting carrots in the morning. His job, he worked seven days a week, I believe, and he was in the adjacent market gardens, harvesting carrots in the morning.

And he was asked a question by or in conversation with his boss. And he stood up to look towards the Grange area. And he report, he testified or recounted observing a very strange-looking circular, semi-translucent object that was kind of shimmering and moving in a circular arc towards the Grange area and kind of almost dissipating as it moved further away. And I really queried with Paul tried to get a frame of references to what it was that he was looking at. Was there anything in pop culture or film or television that could paint a picture for me visually as to what it was his thing? And he made a startling revelation to me, being a fan of all things films, that he recalled that the skin of the object that he saw very much resembled the,

The predator. So the film The Predator with Arnold Schwarzenegger, the camouflage that the predator has, kind of like that semi-translucent, you know, camouflage where you can see through it, but not completely. He commented that it actually resembled that kind of texture and look and feel.

And in follow-up correspondence with him, he went one step further. And if you have seen the movie Contact, great film with Jodie Foster, when she's in the device that is about, to be dropped down into a wormhole, the interior of the object that Jody Foster's character is in, the floor of the object starts to become semi-translucent, and she can actually see through the dome or the ball that she's in to the world outside. And that was a very, for me, a very

interesting visual that Paul gave me in terms of giving me a frame of reference. for the characteristics, the visual characteristics for what it was that Paul saw. And that was a level of detail that was not provided by any of the other witnesses. So just a very interesting data point and kind of gives you a frame of reference visually for what it was he may have seen. Wow. That is so unique. I love that.

I love that. And I'm glad you asked him that. Give us something you can compare it to because that's going to. because that's going to help visualize it for everyone out there. Like, you know, we can think of the most fantastical idea of a flying saucer or we can think of it as the most simple two metal plates stuck together sort of thing. But giving context to all this is so important. It's the only way we're going to try to, we're going to get any answers.

And I'm so happy that these witnesses come together and do that to keep the memories alive and going. You know, that's so important. And, and I mean, I'm, I'm a visual. I'm very visual. So for me, that was helpful for me to kind of get in my mind and visualize what he may be referring to, whereas others are very auditory, you know, different strokes for different folks. And that was just a very interesting data point from Paul.

And again, when he was, I was peppering him, I felt bad because I was just throwing so many questions at him and the other witnesses. but look me dead straight in the eye, didn't break contact at any point in time, and just incredibly sincere and genuine in what he was recollecting. And I think that goes a long way when you're trying to have a level of discernment and get a read on someone for what they're telling you. And I was just transfixed with everything that Paul was telling me and found him to be incredibly compelling.

And to this day, I mean, only a few days ago, in Australia, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, the ABC, aired a 30-minute program called, a program called Australian Story, and they just profiled the Westall UFO mystery. And I was very fortunate to be invited to participate. And Paul was one of the witnesses that participated in the program, as was Joy, as was Marilyn. So if your viewers are interested to go above and beyond the interviews that I was fortunate to, capture for my documentary, they can see, you know, what they've only said a few days ago in a really tight 30-minute package of the Westall Flying Sosa incident.

Yeah, yeah, you were kind enough to send that to me. And I gobbled it up, man. It was so well done. And they treated the case. They really did. Yeah, it was so cool to see you in there. It was like when you showed up in it, I was that Leonardo DiCaprio meme. where he's like, oh, yeah, I know him, I know him.

It was awesome. But it was good because there was, that was, what was that, once upon a time in Hollywood. Yep, yep, there you go. But there was no X-Files music. There was no, there was a, there wasn't a skeptic in there from the Australian skeptic society that I think they felt like they needed to put in there for balance. But I was quite impressed with the, you know, there wasn't, one of the really nice things about the ABC's Australian Story Program.

It's all about the human stories. It's all about the people and the witnesses and what they've experienced. And what I like about the program is they don't try and shape a narrative. They just let the witnesses speak for themselves, and then they'll provide context around that. So I think they did a wonderful job of providing a really comprehensive introduction and overview

for folks that maybe have never heard of the Westall incident before. And it's a really, really good primer for them to kind of set the stage for what happened on the 6th of April, 1966. Exactly. Well, this is a good time. We'll cut to Paul and hear some of his testimony that you were able to record. So it's fascinating. So here's Paul Smith. On the day of the sighting, I was working.

I wasn't at the school. Okay. So the school kids, they all saw this before I did because I was working on the market garden. Gotcha, right. And I don't know why I looked up. I didn't hear anything. And I looked up and there's this object up there in the sky, you know. And it's not an aeroplane.

It's some sort of craft. Yeah. But it's just sitting there. Like hovering? Yeah. Right. But back then, that wasn't possible. You know, there was a crab sitting up there.

And it was glowing. It was bright. If you had to have a guess, do you remember what colours, the lights? It was white, whitish silver, very bright. But as I was looking at it, it sort of slowly changed its form. Right. And it became translucent. change colors went from that sort of shimmering.

It was shimmering. And you could almost feel the power, the energy from it. Did you hear any noise? I didn't hear any noise. No, no noise. No. And do you remember, I've read reports, and I think Shane has, Ryan has stated as well, that it was quite a windy day.

So you would expect something to be moving, being carried by the wind. If it was a prosaic balloon or something to that effect. Yeah, I want the balloon. No, right. No way. So it was hovering. against the wind that was obviously... Yeah, it was a solid object just sitting there.

Yeah, right. And how long was it hovering before it? What happened after? Oh, a couple of minutes. Well, it seemed a couple of minutes. It could have been one minute, you know. But it was like as soon as I was, it realized I was there and I noticed it, it started to change its form,

became translucent. And, um, so you almost felt like it had an awareness of you. Oh yes, definitely. Yeah. It's like, oh, it's no, just me. It's doing something, you know. It was shimmering, changing its form, almost became like, you know how a rainbow fades away? That's what it was doing.

And it sort of faded away to almost nothing. And then it started to move in an arc and it came round into the Grange here. And at that stage, it was just like smoke. drifting around or a gas drifting around in an arc. Right, okay. Yeah. And did you follow it? No, I was working.

Yeah, okay. Right. Is it something that you talked about with friends and family after the incident? I mentioned it when I got home, but I didn't talk to friends. I didn't really have a lot of friends because I was at work all day and I worked seven days a week. Right. Okay.

Your focus was elsewhere. Yeah, my focus was elsewhere, yeah. Is it something back then that would have been? been easy to talk about with your parents or is there a level of stigma and authoritarianism? No, I talked about it to my mum and when my sister came home from work, she worked at the hospital bakeries, which is close by, and she said that women were talking there. Right, okay. So they heard about it during the day.

Yeah. And what was the, was there ever an air of concern from your parents or was it more of a this happened and let's get on with our lives sort of thing. Yeah, get on with your lives. Yeah, it happened. Yeah, and that's it. Yeah, there was no concern. Right, okay.

Because I saw the military when I was, they were over here in the paddocks over here. They're not paddocks anymore. It's been at the tip and they dug it out. Right, yeah. What were their trucks, were their jeeps? Trucks and jeeps were in the paddocks there just below where we were working. Yep. And one of the, I don't know, some sort of rank he would have had,

but one of them came over and spoke to my boss about it. Right. They didn't speak to me. My boss went over to him. Okay. And they were talking about it. Did your boss ever share with you any of the conversation? He just said that the guys reckon that the school kids have seen a flying saucer.

Right. That's all he said. But we saw the same. we saw the school kids run over. They ran over the market garden and went over into that. And this would have been between 10 and 11 in the morning? Yeah. And do you remember how long after that, that military presence?

It was only about 10 minutes. Right. So quite possibly they would have been tracking whatever it was. I'd say so. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. And had they cordoned off the area for a number of days afterwards? They did, yes.

So because when we came to and from, the section, one section of the road was blocked off. You weren't allowed to go into that section. But here, you could get through here anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. So many people out there that will quickly play the skeptics card and say, oh, it's young impressionable minds, you know, TV shows, Star Trek, those, those years and recollections and memories change.

I mean, how can you trust a memory that's 57 years old? So what would you say to people that look at this incident as something that's very something of the imagination? Oh, look, even though it's been all those years, we still remember what happened. It's an imprint in your brain. Right. It's not something you would forget in there, isn't it? Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good things, Steve. Hi, Paul. Hi, Sue. Hey, guys, Ryan Sprague here from somewhere in the skies, and I want to tell you about something that feels like it was specifically made for us.

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follows the money, whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings. There's a money side to every story. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now at Bloomberg.com. Grant, I think that covers our bases when it comes to kind of the primary witnesses to the event. I think it's really important to do that. But there are, and something I found interesting in the special that you sent to me was some of the witnesses also. claimed it wasn't just the principal who was telling them to not talk about this and shut up. But there were actual like men in black that possibly showed up. It is, does that play a role in any of this?

And do you recall who those witnesses were who said they were like sat down in a room and told not to talk about it? Yeah. So one of the witnesses that's profiled in Australian story, her name is Tanya Vassi. And she is reportedly the student that burst into Andrew Greenwood science class and said, Mr. Greenwood, Mr. Greenwood is flying sources. And so she reportedly got quite close to the Grange area and either observed the craft or came into close proximity with it.

It's still not quite clear, at least for me. And so she was pulled into one of the officers, later that day in the afternoon, she was pulled aside and she was questioned by, I think it was two gentlemen that were wearing black suits, very slim kind of ties. I believe in previous interviews, Tanya's mentioned that she thought one of them had an American accent. So whether they were government officials or military, I mean, Joy uses the phrase, likes to use a phrase, man in black, because they really were. They were wearing dark suits, you know, the classic government looking type in the 60s. And she was pulled aside, spoken to by these gentlemen, and they clearly wanted to know from her what it was she saw. Now, why was she kind of called out specifically?

Well, maybe it was because she came in close proximity of the Grange area, and they wanted to know. what it was she saw or that maybe they wanted to try and, uh, you know, apply a bit of arm twisting and intimidate her and, and, and make sure that her story was, was controlled. Right. Yeah. And the more you think about it, she was kind of one of the initial witnesses who first saw it in and, and ushered in the entire event and created this kind of mass panic at the time and, and excitement and, I'm sure, terror that was going on. So yeah, maybe they want to to, you know, get to the source of who originally saw this and interrogate her. Like, okay, they all saw this after.

What did you see? Exactly. And it's not just Tanya Vasi that reported, you know, feeling intimidated. There was also the science teacher, Andrew Greenwood himself in the days following, I believe, the Westall incident. He had a knock on his door. So two gentlemen rocked up at his residence, unannounced, unwelcome, and he opened the door, and he recall saying, you know, one of the gentlemen was in military attire and the other was in civilian attire. And they basically threw a threat his way, you know, they lobbed a veiled threat saying that if you talk about what it was you saw, it would be very easy for people to think that you were drunk on the day of the incident.

and that won't bode too well with the Department of Education and your employment at the school. So he was well and truly threatened and intimidated, and that sat with him for many, many decades. He didn't come forward publicly. He went on the record with James McDonald, who many of your viewers will know. He went on the record with an interviewer, an audio interview, I think was in 1967. And recording next. a discussion with Mr. Andrew

Greenwood in connection with the Westall sighting. How would the whole thing on the fall and what's the sequence?

Right from the beginning. Well, we remember back now it's, I think the first thing I heard was I was teaching and most unusual for another child just running in class

without warning what happened. One girl raised in and said, Mr. Green would quick, quick, flying saucer outside, etc. Got rid of her because I wasn't going to leave my class or anything. Oh, you were in the midst of teaching a class, yes. Oh, she broke into the closed class.

Yes. It is on the usual, yes. It wasn't the type that one would normally do that too either. She left, and I was about for a cess, I suppose, five, ten minutes later. I thought, well, I wonder out and have a look. She was the type that I thought, well, she was a fanciful type of little girl,

and I thought, well, I didn't really pay any attention to her, but I'd wander out anyway. And I went out, and there must have been, oh, more than half the school, about 300 approximately of the boys and girls up in school. And the object was still airborne then? Oh, yes, yes. We're never sure at any stage there was anything else but airborne, although some of the children say that they saw it later.

But I'll get to that all soon, but they point out, The first thing I can say is I observed the object that everyone was looking at. It took me a while to see it. It was grey against the coming on to autumn, blue-gray sky. I couldn't see it immediately. It's there he blinds us. I finally picked up what they were looking at. Was it quite small in size?

It was... Well, the only thing I've got to compare it against is later on there were some small aircraft. Cessna size aircraft. It was approximately two-third the length of one of those. Cigar shape, or cigar shape, except

on occasions it appeared to bulge in the middle. It was changed shape? Yes, chained in. The way I can describe this, hold a I'd say a plate. Hold a plate on edge and it looks straight across, tip it's slightly

and you see it bulge in the middle. That type of effect. I can't say that's what was happening in the source, but that's what it appeared to be. You didn't have a distinct impression of whether that was a cause. I didn't know whether that was a cause or whether it actually was

bulging in the middle, top and bottom. That's what it looked like. So you saw it? There was it hovering motionless when you saw it? Well, it did several things. It did hover at different times. It seemed to be able to accelerate

and disappear out of sight and then someone will see it over. in another part of the sky, through an arc of I suppose, probably a 30 degrees away from us. In other words, it moved considerable distance very rapidly. And then we moved back again. As I mentioned, it came towards us.

Not that we could see it actually coming towards us, but we can see that it was closer now than it was before. It did hover, as I mentioned. It'd go up and down. it could move slowly but generally it seemed to hover or move really fast but we did see it moving across

slowly on a few occasions one of the big points I got out of this was the fact that it was on its own when we first saw it and the next thing we noticed was the presence of one of these light planes approached it and then

then to try and move around the object moved over to another part of the sky very rapidly, followed it over, moved back again. It seemed to be playing out of a cat and mouse with the plane. Then more than one plane arrived, at the end I think it was counted. There were five planes there. Although as you probably heard, the Moravan Airport denied the presence of any planes. They absolutely denied there any planes in the air, which... Is that the only possible...

only possible airport, Marabin Airport? I think that it could be. Moravan is very close. It would be 45 miles away. And the next one, where any particularly five aircraft, I mean, obviously one black might take off with his back paddock or something, but not five.

And I really think it's the only airport that could be considered. And you haven't a clue as to why this, why they would deny? particularly it's rather silly they would deny it, then if you ever go out near Marabin, there is never one spot during the day. I drive past there several times a day

going back and forward between the two schools. I'm a different school now in the table of college. There is never a time when there's not planes taking off and coming in. So I think it was rather a silly statement to make that at that particular time, there were no planes in the sky. We saw them all right, and there were 300 of it.

How many teachers saw it altogether? The phys ed teacher says she saw something, we won't say anything more. The Ford Miller, the Senior English. C-L-A-U-E. Yes, Miller. Miller, Senior Englishman. Is he the one across the field? That's right, she is.

He saw it in the air? Only the very last, he came out just as it was going. The other one, Jeanette Muir, his head mistress, she was there when it was very first seen right in the beginning. She's the one who said she has planned up a bit. Yes. She's Jeanette, G-E-N-A-T-E? Yes, my. M-U-I-M-U-I-A.

And this business is about the head master, is this a woman or a man? Man, man. What's his name? Thanks, Sam Wobie. And he's the one who seemed to be quite influenced by some pressures. Do keep things quiet or is this is almost? I think it was probably whether or not he was influenced by some pressures or not. We know the Air Force came to the school.

Whether or not anything was said to him, I don't know. And then Andrew Greenwood was featured in some of the initial reporting. The local newspaper, the Dandenong Journal, ran an article on the Westall event on the 14th of April. So seven days, was it? seven, eight days after the incident, and then they reported on it another week thereafter. So two articles in the span of two weeks. But after that initial article that had Andrew Greenwood's photo in it, and then his conversation with James MacDonald in 1967,

he went dark for many decades. And it wasn't until James Fox is the phenomenon in 2020 that he went public. His face wasn't on camera, so he was shot from behind. and James Fox got his testimony on the record. And then he eventually did go public and show his face to the world some years later in a documentary that Ross Kultart did for Seven News, Seven Spotlight program. And sadly, Andrew Grimwood passed away last year. But we were all very thankful that he did eventually come forward and provide more detail on what it was that he saw and what happened to him in the aftermath of. of the incident by way of intimidation.

Right, right. And again, I think it's so important that we got a teacher's perspective from all of this. This wasn't just kids playing a prank, as we would hear in other schoolyard UFO cases that would come after this one. And these are all of the things that are so fascinating about the Westall case. You've got massive number of witnesses. You've got this rapid military response. You've got witness intimidation.

You've also got confiscation of evidence. There was another teacher, a physics teacher, her name was Barbara Robbins, I believe, and it was reported that she had a camera, that she was taking photographs of the objects or the object in the sky above the sports ground, and wouldn't you know it with any classic UFO story, when the military rocked up on scene or government officials, that camera was quickly confiscated.

And what she took photographs of has never seen the light of day. So why is there intimidation of witnesses, confiscation of evidence, rapid military response? These are all burning, enduring questions that we've never got answers to, that would provide a greater picture as to, what really happened on the 6th April 1966. Right. Well, there was, Grant, apparently, one photo that may have a connection to all of this that I wanted to touch on with you here.

And that was the photo taken by James Kibble, who we would ultimately see in James Fox's the phenomenon as well. And I found this fascinating. Not only is it one of the clearest photos ever of a possible UFO. but it might, and I want to stress that word, might be connected to the Westall event. So what is your knowledge of that photo and its possible involvement with Westall? I mean, it is. It's a fascinating photograph and credit to James Fox for gaining James Kibble's trust and for James being able to get him in a position where he was comfortable to reveal that photograph

because it is a fascinating photograph to look at at face value. So James Kibble, an engineer, was in his garden in suburb called, I think it's Baldwin, around about 10, 15 kilometers from Westall High School, so not a significant distance, you know, proximity-wise. And he looked up and saw something extraordinary, and he happened to have his Polaroid camera with him because I believe he was taking some Polaroid photos of his garden or his vegetable patch. And he, in James Fox's phenomenon, he reports that, you know, he went to quickly take a photograph with his Polaroid camera and he knocked himself in the face and bruised his nose with the butt of the camera and took this photograph of an object, clearly an object, on its side in the sky. Now, it is a hotly debated photograph.

A lot of skeptics have suggested that, well, is it a bicycle belt that's been thrown up into the air and was a photograph on a polar road was taken just at the right moment? Or is it a hubcap from a car of the day? Is it a hoax or is it a legitimate photograph of something truly extraordinary? And for me, I've always been quite deliberate in separating the Western. incident from the Baldwin UFO, James Kibble took that photograph on the 2nd of April, so it was four days prior to the Westall incident. And it was about 10 to 15 kilometers. That was the distance that separated the events.

So other than the fact that it was four days prior, it was in a proximity of about 15 kilometers away, that's really the only thing, loose connection that I believe it has with the Westall case. If you look at some of the drawings that the witnesses have created over the years, it doesn't really resemble what is depicted in that photograph that James Kibble took. It's quite unique. There is one drawing that was created by Tanya Vassi that actually looks quite similar to the Ballwin UFO that was taken in the Polaroid photograph by James Kibble.

But all of the other drawings that I've seen from the witnesses, it, it does. does look quite distinctly different. Now, does that completely rule out that what was seen by James Kuhle is not connected to Westall? It doesn't necessarily, but there isn't a ton of evidence. It's really just speculation at this point that kind of links the two together, the fact that it was separated by four days and separated by a relatively short distance. Yeah, we are creatures of pattern. We try to find pattern and connections. And sometimes, it's just not the case, but, you know, like you said, so much of this case is still unexplained that we just don't know. We may never know if the photo has any connection, but it's, it's a

fascinating photo to say the least, even if it was a hoax. It's one that will, you know, find its way under many people's walls, I'm sure, those UFO people. In terms of patents, probably one other thing I've just thought about is the fact that you do hear some of the testimony or the recollections from some of the Westall witnesses that they say the saw the object flip on its side. Yeah. Yeah. And that the photograph it appears to be in that, in that, you know, that side position as well. And, you know, there are even some people on social media that pointed out that, well, look at what, you know, think of him what you will, what Bob Lazar has, has claimed over the years with the sport model flipped on its belly and then off at a, off at an angle. So,

I mean, take that for what you will. But again, it's an interesting, it's an interesting thing to ponder, that's for sure. It is, it is. Yeah. Bob Lazar's back in the news, baby. Did you think we'd be talking about him again in 2020? I didn't. I didn't.

And I, I've seen the documentary S4, the Bob Lazar story. I thought it was incredibly well done. Great production value. And we were talking, you know, before we went on air that, you know, visuals can really help tell a story and I think Luigi, the director, did a wonderful job of mixing in the actual audio, the commentary with the visuals that were created, mainly most of them by, what was it, Blender and some by AI. So I think the visuals really help tell the story quite well of Bob Lazar.

Now, is it fact? Is it fiction? and your guess is as good as mine. But I thought it was very well done, and it certainly captured Bob Lazar's story well, I think, as a good visual, in a visual medium. For sure, yeah. And that is interesting.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking the whole belly up thing and flying on the side thing. It does kind of correlate to Bob Lazar, but a story for another time. We will let the Bob Lazar Pro and anti-people have that. discussion. Let's move to some of those explanations that were brought forward by skeptics about what this could be. You did talk about this in the special that you were involved with and in your personal documentary on this as well. What were some of the possible theories about

what the Westall craft or crafts could have been? So if you look at some, The initial reporting from the Dandenong Journal on the, was it the 14th of April in 1966, one of the explanations put forward was very McWest that it was a flock of birds, which I think we can probably rule out safely. But there have been some other prosaic explanations that have been put forward that it was a weather balloon, and that there was a weather balloon that was launched by the Bureau of Meteorology in a place called Laviton, which was kind of west of west. of Westall

and it was hypothesized that well maybe what they saw was just a weather balloon but if you actually take a close look at the weather forecasts and the synoptic charts of the day a weather balloon would have been taken in the opposite direction

in a direction that was not towards Westall so you know you can kind of put that explanation to the side as very low probability. It's also been hypothesized that, well, maybe, and full credit to and respect to

Keith Basterfield, wonderful Australian researcher that invested a lot of ours putting a working hypothesis together, that it was perhaps a high altitude balloon. There was a US, a joint US Australian project in the 60s, really, and into the 70s called Project Highball, which were high altitude balloons that were launched from a place called Nulgira, which is several hundred kilometers north, I want to say northwest of Westall. And these massive balloons were filled with, was it hydrogen or helium, one of the other, sent very, very high into the atmosphere, I think even the stratosphere, 80,000, 100,000 feet or meters, one of the other. And basically designed to detect remnants of your atomic nuclear testing to see what nuclear testing

and atomic testing was being conducted in the Pacific. And they were these massive high-altitude balloons that had a heavy payload. There were universities, NASA, there was the Office of Naval Research that was responsible for having experiments done and sensors on these payloads that would dangle beneath these high altitude balloons. And Keith Basterfield put forward a hypothesis that, well, maybe it was an errant high altitude balloon that went way off course and drifted several hundred kilometers southeast of Mildura from where it was launched and floated above the sky of Westall

and into this wooded area called the Grange. And Keith Basterfield was able to identify through documentation that on the 5th of April, 1966, so the day prior to the Westall incident, there was a special balloon launching that took place from Mildura. That was High Bail Flight 292. Now, the fate of Flight 292 has never been determined. There's never been any documentation, documentary,

evidence that would provide any conclusive proof as to where did that high altitude balloon end up but again some of the researchers that have looked into the high altitude balloon hypothesis in the Westall case quite extensively you just need to look at the the weather forecast and the synoptic charts of the day and the flight path of a high altitude balloon would it would have ended up in quite a different location more south you know inland of the the east coast of Australia more southern New South Wales type area rather than southeast of Miljura which would have been Westall High School so again that's just something

else to consider that well maybe it wasn't a high altitude balloon when you factor in the the weather conditions and the the meteorological elements of the day then you come to the final hypothesis that will maybe it was some top secret military technology or aircraft that was being covertly tested or trialed and something went wrong and the military were quickly on the scene because they didn't want the public to know about it they whatever they were testing should not have been in the hands of the public the public should not have been aware of it if they were aware of it would that have been a reputational disaster a PR disaster so that's another hypothesis that's been before but

unfortunately there is no evidence to support any of those hypotheses and that's what we're searching for we're searching for evidence that can you know validate or invalidate the claims the hypotheses that have been put forward the last hypothesis is obviously something that is much more exotic that is non-conventional that is maybe otherworldly that what if it was a true flying saucer wherever it was from and whatever it was whatever it was. So there are a number of hypotheses that have been put forward. And that's one of the challenges and frustrations that many researchers, including myself, have, is trying to track down documentary evidence above and beyond just witness testimony that will provide us with some breadcrumbs

that point to a clearer picture as to what it was that was absorbed in the sky above Westall on 6th April 1966. You're right. Documentation. Exactly. That's where I wanted to head next. I mean, Grant, at this point, you're basically considered the Black Vault of Australia in terms of FOIA requests and all that. John Greenwald's got a few decades on me. So my shoes are incredibly small compared to his. But I certainly value John's work. And he's been a great mentor as well with FOIA because it is a learning curve if you've never done before.

Absolutely. Same. Yeah. Thank you. And shout out to John Greenwald. for sure. Well, is there any documentation of this event? Any official stuff that you are able to uncover? What have you uncovered or unearthed when it comes to this case in the military's possible involvement? Is there anything? So the Holy Grail for the Westall incident,

it's been, I would say more than a rumor. It's been reported that there was a comprehensive report that was compiled either by or for the then department, what's called the Department of Supply, which was responsible for basically providing the armed services with everything that they needed, everything from military assets to their pens and pencils, basically providing the services with everything that they need to accomplish their mission. And so the and the Department of Supply was also the agency that was responsible for this project High BAL. So there has been a concerted effort by folks like Keith and myself to try and find documentary evidence that would invalidate the HighBow hypothesis or maybe provide some evidence to support it. That evidence

is not to, has not yet seen the light of day. But what has been reported is that there was this comprehensive report that was either created for or by or on behalf of the then Department of Supply, a comprehensive investigation into the Westall incident. And lead researcher on the Westall case, Shane Ryan, who's done a wonderful job, you know, bringing to light hundreds of witnesses, interviewing hundreds of witnesses over the years and bringing, and, and bringing a lot forward. He's really been the lead researcher on the Westall case now for well and truly over a decade. Both he and Ross Coulthard have been in contact with the son of this individual who for or for the Department of Supply, he compiled this report. And the son, the father who

compiled this report has unfortunately passed away. But the son, the father who compiled this report is unfortunately passed away. the son talked about his father doing an investigation on the Westall case for the Department of Supply and that on his his death the gentleman had instructed his wife to destroy the report to and that's exactly what she did the wife the son's mother burned this report through it into the fireplace why why what's so what's so secretive that requires evidence to be destroyed. So there has to be, it's been long suggested that there would have to be more than just one copy of this report that was compiled either by or for the Department of Supply.

So that's the Holy Grail for researchers that are trying to find documentary evidence, either through the National Archives of Australia or through the Freedom of Information Act, to try and get this comprehensive report released. for the public to see after how many decades, six decades. And I put forward a petition, a government petition last year, calling for the Australian government to launch an independent inquiry and actually release the Department of Supplies report on the Westall case. And that petition secured 831 signatures. It was referred to the Australian Minister for Defence, Richard Miles, for written response.

and to date he has not provided a written response, which is a slap in the face to the witnesses that have lived with this experience for 60 years now. So that's something that I would love to see from the government, a formal response to a call for this report to be released and a call for an independent inquiry. But researchers like Shane Ryan, like myself and others, keep digging and keep looking for this Department of Supply report

wherever it is. if it's sitting in a filing cabinet somewhere, if it has been destroyed and we'll never see the light of day, or if it's just being withheld by a defense agency, that that's what we're trying to uncover. Wow. Yeah, it's, you know, you look at like the RAF press officer, Craig Lindsay in Scotland with the Calvin UFO photo.

It took 30 plus years for that photo to be taken out of a desk. And he's like, you think anyone would want to see this? And we're like, yeah, dude, I think a lot of people would like to see. Maybe this will be the case where someone has a copy of the document, just hanging around and it'll see the light of day. But who knows, man. But you guys are doing the work.

Yeah, for like, you know, the more coverage that the Westall case gets, and there's an event happening this Sunday at the Westall Library commemorating the 60th anniversary of the Westall case. and Shane Ryan will be doing a brief talk. He's actually about to, I'm not sure if he's made this public, but he's about to release a book, his first ever book, on the Westall case, which is bound to be an absolutely fascinating read. And a number of the witnesses will be in attendance doing a Q&A.

And that's going to be a live-streamed event. So it's these kind of events and the media that is now starting to provide more coverage on the Westall case that increases public awareness and can help add create some. public pressure as well so that if there is you know more and more people that are asking these sorts of questions who knows you we may reach a tipping point where an australian member of parliament or australian senator the likes of maybe a senator wish wilson who unfortunately is retiring this year we'll start asking some questions about well why hasn't the government ever provided

an official explanation for what was observed in the sky above west old high school in the 6th of April, 96. So public pressure is certainly something that we're hoping for. It's important for sure. And yeah, shout out to Shane Ryan. We'll link to his documentary as well. He's done so much legwork on this case. It's undeniable and incredible what he's achieved.

So I know Eddie McGowan had him on his show. So people should go check that out as well. But yeah, yeah, really good guy. I'd love to talk to. I've got a lot of, a ton of respect and time for Shane. And he was actually the one that suggested that I get along to the reunion event for the Westall Witnesses a few years ago. So I have to take my head up to Shane for really getting me interested and actively engaged

in the Westall case. So he's done and continues to do a wonderful job advocating for the witnesses, but also trying to get more witnesses to come forward and for more information. to come to life. Absolutely. You mentioned the word commemorating. This caught my attention because, you know, man, I'm a theater nerd. I went to school for acting, playwriting.

I've acted in movies, stage plays, commercials, you name it. But theater is where my heart is. Is your passion? Even more specific. Yeah, yeah, musical theater. Like, my dream was always to be on Broadway. I kind of made it. I was a bartender on Broadway for 10 and a half years,

slinging overpriced suds for people. So I made it, Mom. I made it. You were literally on Broadway. I was literally on Broadway eight times a week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man, people are going to give me so much guff for this. But I heard through you, you covered this briefly in your documentary,

that there was a Westall musical? Is that true? Yeah. Yep. Westall the Musical, great playwright or what do you call them, a music writer. Librettist, I guess. Musical writer, yeah, let's go with that. Musical writer.

Drew Lane, so he really put together on, largely on his own, a school production, school musical called Westall the Musical. And unfortunately, it had its world premiere. in Melbourne and I was bummed because I couldn't attend the event but it was so incredibly successful. There is a recording of it that you can find on YouTube if you want to watch the recording of the world premiere but it was so successful that there I think plans to take it on tour. So and really quite inspiring to see children who are the really the leads in the in the musical. it's a musical by children you're retelling through through song the the events of april 6th,

966 so I take my hat off to Drew Lane for doing a great job you know keeping keeping the Westall story alive and you know through through the musical talents of the next generation you know telling telling the story yeah all hands on deck, man. It just gets the case out to people who would never... I mean, my most popular play I have ever written was a one-man show about a primary witness

to the Rendlesham Forest UFO event. It is the most produced play I've ever done. It's made its way around the world and so much so that it's now being optioned as a film. And that's what's so exciting

is getting these actual UFO cases out to a public who would never you're telling me people going to see cats or Mamma Mia or something like that that they that UFOs ever

crossed their mind I don't think so so the fact that there's like it's getting it out to more people is so cool and that just adds to the public pressure we can put on officials to get the information about this stuff you want a real protest man you get

a thousand musical theater nerds out there on the streets, pirouetting, stinging their lungs out. They'll make some noise. Yeah, exactly. They'll make some noise. Exactly. And look, it really tells you, it says something about the love that people have for such a historical moment in Australia's short history.

I mean, for an event like this to have happened first and foremost is he's. significant, but then for it to be memorialized in a musical, in an art form that will expose an entire different generation to it, I think speaks volumes to, you know, not just the power of different mediums, but it's just another way that the Westall story can live on and make its way into the minds of an entire new generation. So, yeah, I was really impressed to see that Drew Lane had, you know, done such a wonderful job to put together an entire musical on the actual Westall case. I love it, man. Yeah, Drew, if you need an American actor who could do a really bad Australian accent, you let me know. I'll play the American Man in Black or something. Yeah, that'd be fun. Whoa, was not expecting to spend this much time on the musical.

I apologize to me. But interesting nonetheless. To kind of, I guess, wrap things up, you know, we had Westall in 66. We had the Broadhaven Wales case in 77, Rua, Zimbabwe in 1994, all schoolyard citesings. I mean, one of our first episodes of somewhere in the skies, I had a gentleman named Michael Huntington on the show. And we did a whole episode on schoolyard UFO sightings. And there was an alarming amount that I was not aware of. But this was kind of the first and kind of, you know, the most, I guess, talked about at the time.

You know, Zimbabwe's kind of made its way out there as like one of the bigger ones too. But where do you think this case sits? Not just in Australian history, but overall in the whole UFO perspective. Where would you put the Westall case? Look, for me, it's definitely in the top five. I mean, and one of the things that I guess is strange is that Westall is still one of the cases that not too many have heard about. You do hear about, you know, certainly some of the significant cases in the United States. Obviously, the Phoenix Lights is regarded as the biggest mass signing event of our modern time.

and you hear about obviously, you know, Roswell and you've got the Vaginia case that James Fox has done such a good job bringing it a light in Brazil, and you have the Ariel School signing. But you ask the average Joe on the street, or even people that may be interested in the UFO topic, you may find some that don't know a whole lot about the Westall case. So it's kind of this still diamond in the rough that not a ton of people know about. Now, those that have seen the phenomenon will certainly have been exposed to it. But it's still a case that kind of, you know, flies under the radar a little bit. And I think that's changing slowly with the attention that, certainly in Australia,

that, you know, Australian news programs like Australian Story, the news media, you know, the documentaries that Ross has done, Shane Ryan, the documentary that he was profiled in. And, you know, it's been a bit of a slow burn. I'd certainly say that in the last six years, though, that Westall is starting to find its place on the map in global uphology and become a much more widely intriguing and fascinating case that people want to learn more about.

So, I mean, there's just, with Westall, again, there are so many rabbit holes that you can go down with Westall and spend the rest of your days going through it. But the fact that it was such a significant mass-sighting event that has all of these other elements to it that just make it that much more mysterious, intriguing, really adds to its, for me, its appeal. And I think people will just find truly fascinating

when they're exposed to it. So it's been a bit of a slow burn, but I think people are now starting to realize that, hey, there's this whole case on the other side of the planet that we've never heard about. What's going on here? And people are interested a little bit. And, you know, thanks to, you know, folks like Andy McGrellan,

who's Atlas of UFOs, he documents Westall in his book, too. So, you know, it's great that, you know, Westall lives on through literature and other art forms as well. And not just the podcast that I do and others do, it's starting to get some traction in other mediums as well, which is good. For sure. I mean, if you're just listening to this episode on the podcast, it's now made its way onto an American living in Scotland's wall.

I got the headline of the journal, the Durango. Is that right, Durango? Dandenong, Dandenong, Dandenong journal. Dendon. I was way off. I apologize. Australian ignorant to show.

Yeah. I've got the headline on the wall here to memorialize it. So it's gaining traction. It's one of those cases that needs to be looked into further for sure. And to kind of wrap it up here, Grant, where does Australia land right now when it comes to UAP investigation? I know this is something you have been dogged. about pursuing, like, we need something like the states have or Canada or France.

Where does Australia stand when it comes to officially or not investigating UFOs in the AP? Yeah, so, I mean, and this is one of my frustrations. Sadly, Australia is decades behind the United States. You know, publicly, the Australian government and Australian Department of Defense largely ignore the topic in its entirety. Move along folks, nothing to see here. It's a US, it's isolated to the United States. Don't worry, folks.

We know what's in our skies. We have air dominance. Nothing to worry about, move on. Stark contrast, you know, Australia and the United States are the closest of allies, yet their positions on UAP, UFO could really not be further apart. Australia is just not actively engaging on this topic publicly, and you have the United States that are taking this topic incredibly seriously. what you will of ARRO, at least there's an investigatory body in place that is taking the topic

seriously and trying to understand the nature and the extent of UAP, irrespective of your feelings about RO, there is a mechanism in place by which UAP is reported and investigated. You have men and women in Congress in the United States that are taking this topic incredibly seriously and how many congressional hearings six congressional hearings in the course of less than four years or at least four congressional hearings under the house oversight committee and Australia is largely just sitting on its hands and not doing anything it's you know thanks to the likes of green senator senator peter wish wilson who sadly is retiring this year he's been a wonderful advocate for the uap topic in an australian context because he's the only a

Australian Senator that's really asked questions of folks in position of leadership and authority in the government and the Department of Defense. And so it's unfortunate that he's retiring this year because we lose a wonderful advocate for the topic in Australia. And you have clowns like Senator Ralph Babbitt who on April Fool's Day puts out this ridiculous post on X, clearly taking the piss and for engagement. saying that he's been briefed on the aliens and and I just replied to Minutapost saying, look, this is an issue that our Five Eyes partner and an ally is taking incredibly seriously.

Maybe you should get off your ass and start asking some hard questions like Senator Wish Wilson did. So that's a constant source of frustration that Australian politicians really are just not taking the topic seriously and taking the piss. So I'm not that confident that the topic will have significant traction in Australia, unless something incredibly significant happens in the United States that will force or encourage five-eyes partners to follow suit because largely the UK, New Zealand, Australia, sitting on our hands doing nothing when Canada is at least open to having the conversation, whereas down under,

we're not even having the conversation, which is frustrating. It is, but, you know, yeah, I think it does happen country by country. I mean, I'm currently working with a member of parliament in Japan, and they are now opening a UFO investigation office or trying to. It'll all depend on funding, obviously, and stuff like that. But I am working directly with them, kind of as a liaison of the United States ephology. And it's cool.

It's interesting to see Japan getting involved. And like you mentioned, Sky Canada is a big one as well. And it is this trickle-down effect. And we can only hope that, like you said, Australia will move past the Ralph Babette to give back more to the Greens, as you know. mentioned and take this seriously. And really look at it from a... People like you are doing the work.

Well, trying to, you know, we really, I mean, all I want as an Aussie is for my government to acknowledge that UAP is real. It exists. It's an issue. To, you know, investigate UAP. At least afford our brave men and women at the front lines, some sensible see something, say something, reporting protocols because there's nothing in place at the moment. and for us to get to the bottom of what's behind UAP.

That's really what we all want at the end of the day. We want to know, we want answers for what is behind the phenomenon. And credit to the United States, Canada and Japan for being open to having the conversation. And one could only hope that if they continue to take a serious look and scrutinize, the topic that maybe other countries will start to scratch their head and say maybe we should really follow suit and do the same. So that's at least the hope that I have. But I'll continue to exercise my right to information and submit FOIA requests and engage elected representatives and the news media to at least try to keep UAP at the forefront of the government and the public's

minds as best we can through news media and and you know a journalist that are a brave enough to report on the topic but it's not um it's it's the long game uh you you have to know that it's you know like in the acting world you have to um get used to having the word no to you said time and time again um and it's very much the same feeling in in this topic you have to have uh you have to have consistent persistence and longevity for it. Oh, buddy. If I showed you the amount of rejection letters I have, you would be astounded. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Well, you're doing the hard work, man, and we truly appreciate it. And maybe it will come down to really finding some answers to what happened in Westall in 66, and we can work from there. So, you know, we'll have links to your documentary in the show notes, all of the information that's out there publicly available, Shane Ryan's doc, all of that. But most importantly, where can we find what you're up to

and what you got going on? And yeah, can you tease anything that you're working on when it comes to the unexplained rundown? Well, yeah, so certainly I do, I try and do a monthly episode of the unexplained rundown, a monthly live stream. So you can find me on YouTube and Spotify.

Just search for the unexplained rundown. I'm most active on X in terms of social media, so you can just follow me at Grant LeVac. If you prefer to see what I've been up to, website, grantlevac.com, that will give you upcoming events. So I'm being invited back to the Australian UFO Festival in August of this year, and we'll be presenting on the Westall case, so Westall's 60 years of secrecy. so I'm looking forward to doing a presentation on that. So that's probably the big thing that I'm working on is that presentation for later in the year,

above and beyond the monthly updates that I do and reveal any findings that I come across through FOIA. But that's where you can find me. That's awesome. Well, hey, I hope tonight was a good refresher course, not only for our audience, but for you to prepare for that lecture. That's exciting, man. I've had to think a few times,

when have I got the right date there? You know, but it's... Because if you don't, and that's the thing too, if you, and you will know this as well, and you're having investigated as many cases as you have, you know, if you don't revisit it every now and then

or you're not actively kind of talking about it that frequently, it's, you know, information can quickly recede to the back of your head and you can kind of lose it, use it or lose it. You can kind of lose, you know,

lose some of the, the, the key data that you had at the forefront of your mind when you're really diving deep into a case. So it's been good. It's been helpful for me. It's been a good refresher for myself this evening. Oh, good. Well, I'm glad it was, but dude, I have to thank you. This was so refreshing. I've never done an episode on Westall. So I learned a lot. I know our audience has as well. Again, we'll have links to all of your stuff in the show notes. And I would have to agree. I would put this in the top five UFO

cases out there for sure. I think it truly deserves that. And that has to do with the amazing work of people like Shane Ryan, Keith Basterfield, all the other UFO investigators throughout the years over there in Australia. And that includes yourself. So thank you for that. And thank you for coming back on somewhere in the skies today. I appreciate it, man. I'm really standing on the shoulders of giants like Keith Basterfield, Bill Chalker, Shane Ryan and Ross and those guys. They've, they've really paved the way, so I'm trying to add what little pieces of the puzzle I can. So, but I've really enjoyed having a chat with you. So thanks again. I'll be back. My absolute pleasure. Hey, sweetie, your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car. I'm going to give it a try. Wish me luck.

Me again, I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check. Anyway, Carvana. Give it a whirl. Love you. So good, you'll want to leave a voicemail about it. Sell your car today on... Carvana.

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