Somewhere in the Skies - Top 5 Favorite UFO Cases (w/ Paul Kimball)

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

On episode 381, we are joined in studio by filmmaker, television host, and former UFO researcher, Paul Kimball! For one night only, he returns to UFOs to give his brutally honest thoughts on the current state of UFOlogy and then he shares his Top 5 favorite 5 UFO cases of all-time! Follow Paul on Twitter: https://x.com/paulkimballfilm Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ PayPal: [e-mail] Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Store: http://tee.pub/lic/ULZAy7IY12U YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/somewhereskies/videos Order Ryan’s new book: https://a.co/d/4KNQnM4 Order Ryan’s older book: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Produced by LIONSGATE Copyright © 2024. Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The views expressed in this interview are not necessarily those of the host and solely represent our guest at the time of recording. Thank you for listening and watching. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. All right. Welcome to a in studio episode of Somewhere in the Sky. This happens so rarely. Welcome, guys. I am your host, Ryan Sprague.

And with me today is the one and only Paul Kimball. Hi, Mom. Normally, I wear baseball caps today. I'm wearing a New York Knicks cap, which is the only New York cap I have, Ryan, because I generally hate New York sports teams. And it's been a tough week for Ryan. It has. It has.

The Yankees lost the World Series to a team that had just beat Ryan's beloved Mets, and the Jets lost last week, and the Giants always lose. So the only good news I have for you is it's a new basketball season. The Knicks are back. And the Jets won last one. As we're recording this, they went to three wins and six losses for the season. Okay. So we're doing, okay.

So it would probably not surprise you that when it comes to New York teams, I'm often a contrarian. So my New York team is actually the Nets. Oh, for Pete's sake. Come on, come on. You know by now. Well, I always have to pick the underdog. Nashville it is. Boom.

I love it. Well, okay, let's start with ghost hunting, Paul. Before we even get into the core of this conversation, we have spent the last, what, month and a half together, almost every second of every day. This is illogical. This is a UFO show. Why are we talking?

Because we just did like five ghost episodes, and my audience is probably craving UFOs, which we will get to. We will definitely get to. for sure but we just spent what the last month and a half all over nova scotia hunting ghosts season 13 i've come to hate you and you and he's come to hate me it's we've come to hate each other we've been living out of each other's back pockets really we really have we really have um how do you feel how do you feel wrapping season 13 of haunted dude i'm retired so it's not just wrapping season

In season 13, I am a retired ghost hunter. I'm still producing haunted and I'll edit and write it and everything. But the fieldwork I lead to a younger generation, unless I return someday. But yeah, it was a good season. Yeah, I mean, ghosts. We were talking to car. Why did I give up UFOs all those years ago? And two reasons, folks, ghosts, cheddar.

I get paid to do it. But also, you can go out and have personal experiences, which is, we do we go to all these places where almost all of them the general public can go we were speaking ryan and i went to lunerburgh nova scotia last night to give a halloween talk to little kitties and about ghosts and demons mom i'm sorry it's not what i know it's not what you and dad wanted me to become but here we are ghosts good demons bad yes depending on what's our slogan depending on how they look you know if it's a friendly demon maybe um and uh yeah you know it's like you can go to these places places walk in. I was telling the story. My wife and I went to Whaley House in San Diego,

I don't know, just before the pandemic. My wife, not really having any interest in ghosts other than Paul gets a paycheck so we can buy things with what he urns from hunting ghosts. But so we're at Whaley House that allegedly the most haunted house in all of the United States are one of them. And a really great museum too. It's an old town San Diego. So she did the museum part. I said, you don't want to stand here. I'm just going to stand and see if I can feel some ghosty stuff. And she went, no, I'm good. So she walked into the next room. And I stood there and it was all of a sudden I felt like I was being enveloped in cold,

which you might have discovered is a move that the ghosts make. And it was like 90 degrees in San Diego. So probably not cold. And she stuck her head out the door. And she was thinking like, are you done? And I went, I'm in a cocoon of cold. And she said, yeah, I'll be upstairs. It's just like wanted nothing to do with it.

She said, whenever you're done, leave them a little. alone and we're getting dinner, right? So what we do is we go to these places and we've had Ryan for the last three seasons, which has been, how would you describe it? Fascinating. Yes, actually. Awesome, man. Yeah, it's been great.

And we do stuff. So Ryan's been turned into a Ouija board savant. Yeah, we talked about this in Lunenburg last night. You know, nothing I ever thought I would do in my life, try to be on a Ouija board. And I will admit, and yes, we will get the UFOs, guys, but it is Halloween season still. Jacob, our co-investigator on the show, he and I were very skeptical of the Ouija board and nervous. You know, we thought we were both going to get on there and nothing was going to happen. And that's the worst thing that can happen on television, right?

It's not the worst thing. I guess, that's true. It's in the top five. Yeah, yeah. One of us could get possessed. Actually, that'd be really good for television. I was thinking somebody gets electrocuted because there's lights and rain on the floor or something. Yeah.

That's the worst thing that could happen. That's so true. But we, you know, right off the bat, we had incredible results on the Ouija board. Of course, all of this stuff, guys, is always open to interpretation. No one's an expert in any of it. But we have sort of coined ourselves the Ouija bros, as it were, because we work so well together. And we've had some pretty stunning results so far, would you say? Yeah, yeah.

Although I think the best thing was I, because I knew it was my last season in the field, after 13 seasons plus a previous series called Ghost Cases, I've never been a big fan of the Ouija. Long story, it doesn't matter. I'm very skeptical of it too, not skeptical of them. So when you see people, I do believe that the Ouija can service a portal or an opening or basically, hi, come on down and use this too, whatever. But I'm very skeptical of the people who use it.

There are fakes and frauds and all that stuff. You and Jacob, no. So you and I, so it's a ghost show. But on other ghost shows, and I'm looking at you, Zach Deggans, we don't just go hunt demons and stuff. We have fun, folks. So we conjure creatures. And last season, season 12, we conjured up a quantum Sasquatch.

Hey, Lauren Coleman, that was for you. This season, Ryan and I were on an island called Brow. Island in Nova Scotia, which is literally in World War Z. If you've ever seen World War Z, this is where Brad Pitt and everybody ends up at the end of the zombie apocalypse. They go to Briar Island because it is at the end of everything. And so we were on Briar Island staying there. We went on this great bog marsh trail or whatever it's called, lovely trail. And we may or may not have sat down and conjured up a creature that does not exist until now that we call the bog squatch.

Which great. A lot of fun. It really was. But then we took the ferry over to Long Island, which was where we were actually filming. So it's like a five-minute ferry ride with a car. And we went to the museum and we did a Ouija session, just you and me. And we might have actually talked to the Bog Squatch. That was crazy.

Who has three mates, apparently. That's how Bog Squatch is roll. Bog Squatches roll polygamously? Is that a word? I think they might be polygamous. You know what? They just believe in. free love.

Oh, I love that. There you go. So clearly, originally birthed in the 60s or 70s, I would assume. Yes. But is it a real bog squatch? I don't know.

Although I do think we might have conjured a quantum saskatch because, you know what? I feel like I'm hosting your own show. This is terrible. Only for the ghost portion. Ryan, tell us about the quantum sasquatch experience when you were sitting in a hot or a building at Camp Harrison,

old Boy Scout camp with no record of saskwatches. and doing a Nesta's method ghost box session. Yeah. And Holly Stevens, one of the co-hosts or investigators, I guess, a better way, saw something, and I think maybe you did too. Yeah. Out of window. So you describe what you saw.

Okay. And then I'll deliver the punchline because I was the guy that did the punchline. Right. So all I remember is we're in this cabin and this was after we had quote unquote summoned what we believe was a quantum Sasquatch. Sounds ridiculous. But again, like we are hunting ghosts for a month. We've got to have some fun.

We've got to try stuff, try experiments. And we did. And what may have started as a joke, as it did with bog squatches, we'll get to, started to get serious when other investigators actually started seeing things and experiencing things. So like you mentioned, we use the Estes method, which is headphones, sweeps through frequencies. You pick out words if they come through and you hear them. And supposedly this is a spirit trying to communicate with you. Holly, one of our, I would say more scientifically based investigators, was under the Estes. And I watched her focus go to a window that was right behind me.

And her eyes just started moving and watching something go past the window. She kind of jumped back. She said, there's something in the window. So I quickly turned around. And I too saw a form. You could call it a shadow. I don't know. The head of it, like, go right past the window.

Like something had run past the cabin that we were in, perhaps watching us, perhaps hunting us. I don't know. But it was very troubling. We saw it with our very own eyes and freaked us out. So I remember we stopped doing what we were doing because it was very, unsettling and you came in and you're like hey guys what's going on and let you take it from because i had been in another part of it's a big boy scout camp so i was well off with amy murphy one of our other investigators and we were doing some really goofy stuff which you know like rolling

cat balls and saying come interact with a sass watch and spirits of the forest and tried some time travel too because amy and i shot a feature film there like 20 years before so we were trying to reach out to our younger selves weirdly enough uh through the uh uh Dosbox came my name more than once and Bank, which is a very significant word in terms of the feature film that we saw it. So it was one of a couple of words, two of like four words who said, if that comes through, that might be past us coming to future us. Anyway, it was a totally weird thing. And later on, Ryan and Holly heard knocking in the woods from the Sasquatch. And we left a gift for the Sasquatch overnight, came back the next day, and he had left gifts for us.

like this was like nobody else knew we had done that nobody was back to that place while we were so remote yeah so we were tulpa mansoring or you know nick redfern kind of like conjure a tulper or a thought form so anyhow i come back and go hey guys what went on they tell me about the names well oh my god and then oh we saw this thing go through a window kind of like that window right back there and i said that window and they went yeah that window like was that you, Paul? Because they thought, certainly Holly had thought that I had not trying to prank them, but maybe I had just walked by or I was

in the neighborhood. It happens all the time. Yeah. No, we were nowhere near it. There was nobody else there. But here's the thing. I said, I immediately know. I said, hey, camera monkey come out with me. I had one of our camera guys, Jeff McCollum, following me and came out one around. And so the hut, so here's what

it looks like. Now one side, though, the hill's here. And the other side, the ground's down here. They were over on this side looking out a window on this side. If you go out this side and you look up, that window's eight to nine feet above the ground. Anything going by that window would have been at least seven, you know, it would be like Yao Ming height at a minimum and probably, you know,

Boston Celtics or the New York Knicks want to get this guy because it was about eight to nine feet. And I'm just looking up going, I think we just conjured an effing. I didn't say it. Sasquatch at Camp Harris in Mindville. old Boy Scout camp when I was a kid, which is crazy if it happened. And if that was the only thing, you'd be like, well, okay, you know, but all this other stuff that went on, you know, like the cat ball will light up here. And then you guys heard knocks in the woods. And Amy and I, we were to woo-woo making Sasquatch sounds as a joke.

And then we heard the sounds come back to us. And they were unlike any animal sound. Amy and I have lived her whole lives in Nova Scotia that we had ever heard. So we followed and then when we get up there, we heard footsteps next to us. Did we see a Sasquatch? No, except maybe they did. I don't know. Did we conjure one? I don't know.

But we tried it again with the bog squatch that we created. We didn't just conjure. We went next level, right? Yes. Next level. Yep. And we created one. And then on the Ouija board, it interacted with us for a good solid half an hour.

Yes. And the thing was spinning around. Oh, my gosh. That was crazy. Are you a bog squatch? Yes, nice to meet you. It liked being called Sir Bog Squatch. Sir Bog Squatch.

Had a bit of a sense of humor. So to my old friend, Mack Tonnies, who's sadly passed away 15 years ago, he would appreciate it, the idea of a trickster. So do I think we really dealt with it? And this relates, look, I'm going to bring it back, this relates to UFOs and one possible explanation for UFOs. And some of the really high strangeness cases are tricksters or what you call them tricksters, other people use different names for them that have interacted with human beings

throughout all of our history and present themselves to us in different guises, maybe to have some fun with us, maybe to teach us something, maybe they want to learn something from us. Whereas Greg Bishop would say, and I was like to give credit, sort of an artistic co-creation, which I talked about in my book, the other side of truth now available on where we get books. But the idea of an artistic relationship between us and the paranormal, where we're basically kind of painting a Jackson Pollock together. And it's just like a blank canvas when you go in. But if you open yourself up to it, let the spirit move you kind of thing.

Artists will sometimes talk like that. Like, you know, Paul McCarty would say, well, I don't know where the song came from, it just came. Yeah, something takes over. Well, you know, I just opened myself up and wiggly bigly, I had yesterday. Right. Or whatever. So we kind of, we do do, like actual ghost hunting that you would see Zach Dagans do, I guess.

But we do all sorts of weird stuff that you won't see them do. And that's, to me, where the fun always was, because after 13 seasons, there's only so many times you can walk in and go, all right, turn the Wii, not turn the Ouija board on. Click. We have an electric Ouija board. Turn the ghost box on. Let's, you know, ask the same questions and see what we get. The Ouija board was definitely different and Tulpam answering is different and all sorts of cool stuff.

So yeah. And that is the second reason why I sort of walked away or left UFOs besides the dirty, filthy luker, is you can do this stuff. Yeah. Whereas you never hear anybody kind of do it in UFOs. I mean, I suppose you could go out and invite the UFOs down if they're paranormal. Yes. In fact, we tried that in season 12. We did.

And we got Stanton Friedman through the Ouija board. Of course. I will return to somewhere in the skies if Brian wants me when that episode is done. And we can talk about how my uncle Stan Friedman came through the Ouija board at a place he had no connection to while Jacob and Ryan are you. and answered questions that I asked that those two would not have known the answers. Yeah, non-related UFO questions, UFO information that I even as a 20-something year veteran now did not know, which is my own fault. But hey, it sort of proves the experiment.

I mean, these are things that only you and Stan would know. And that was very, I would imagine, extremely emotional for you. But for me, too. Like, I met him once in my entire time. I interviewed him maybe twice, but that was one of the hardest days for every UFO researcher out there to lose who we considered, you know, sort of the godfather or the father of euphology. And, yeah, for those who don't know, Paul is his nephew. Yeah, for me, I just lost an uncle, a good friend. But also a Dodgers fan.

Right. So sorry about that. That's okay. But he went back to Brooklyn. He was a Dodgers fan from when he grew up in New Jersey. So he was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan and he just transferred his loyalty when they moved to Los Angeles. So he's still a New York. I love that, though. Stan, you finally got that World Series, my man. So was it Stan talking to us or was it a trickster?

I'd like to think it was Stan. But we've done that with Mac Tonys. We were in a place called the Queens County Museum a few years ago. And Ryan and was it you? Mike Hanks, Frank Bishop. And I was there. And Dylan Garland, I think, was there too. Yes, who was on the haunted team at the time.

And we were just trying to contact Mack Tonys. And Mac ran a blog called Post-Thuman Blues. So blue was his color. And he loved, and this will sound really creepy and weird folks, but he loved mannequins. He was fascinated by mannequins. He would take pictures of them whenever he saw them, even creepy ones, sexy ones, whatever.

He was fascinated by mannequins. So we wind up in this attic at the Queens County Museum, which is one of the more haunted places I've ever investigated. Very haunted. And so the conference we were at was just doing a ghost hunt there because the lady Linda Rayfuse who runs it. The conference ran the conference also runs the museum. It's a provincial museum. And we're up there in this tight sort of space. And Mac is whatever.

Something has been leading us up here. We're filming it on cell phones or whatever. And a REM pod, which is a device that lights up and it measures all sorts of different things, temperature. matter what it measures. Flashy lights, as I say, ghost signs. And there's a mannequin with no head. And I think it was me or Greg. I can't remember, but somebody, I think I came with the idea and I think maybe Greg put it there. It's like, hey, let's put the REMPOT, which has been beep, beep, doing, answering our questions, everything. Let's put it on top of the mannequin. And if the blue light comes on, because it has green and red and blue and stays on, holy, that can't happen. What are the odds

that that's going to happen? Stood back. Hey, Mac, are you here? Beet. And, and And there's the blue light coming on. I don't know if that's Mac Tonys or a trickster or in Max's case, he's a bit of both. But there's something out there that's interacting with us. I know skeptics out there that are listening, assuming you have some, and I am still skeptical about any given incident. I just like there's coincidences in this world and then there's synchronities and then there's things I just can't explain.

And it doesn't make sense. So blog squatch, blog squatch, sorry. Blog squatch. I'm calling it blog squatch. Bog squash and Sasquatch and McDonies and Stan Friedman, two of which relate to UFOs. So there we are. We're back to UFOs.

Coming through on our ghost hunting journey. Welcome to Haunted. And we're glad that you're bored. Hopefully you've enjoyed your time. Oh my gosh. I'm having a blast and it's been extremely eye-opening. It is a big departure from the UFO world. where like you said, oftentimes a UFO is so fleeting.

It's here, it's gone. There's no way to measure it, to capture it, to really study it, if you want to go from the scientific route. But when it comes to ghost hunting, like we have created tools where we can possibly. You can recreate it. Yeah. You can try and recreate it.

And then you can take people out, put new people in, see if you can replicate. So we don't do science. I have a lot of degree in a history degree. Holly does have a science degree. but we at least try and do a little bit of science or at least a little bit of the scientific method just to tinge without claiming that we're ghost scientists

or anything like that. It is all very subjective. But the great thing is you folks, you add Susan, Philip, Pete. Pete's here. What's up, Pete? Hey, Pete, oh, what's up? Oh, my God, box squatch is here.

Look, he's right down there. Oh, my gosh. Everyone behave. But you guys can do it too. And wherever we go, the episodes for the first four seasons, which Ryan was not in or on YouTube, but all the other seasons, the next nine seasons will be up over the next year, year and a half. So eventually you'll be able to see them on YouTube after they do the broadcast here in Canada. And if you're in the neighborhood, you can go to most of these places.

Or you can go to Whaley House in San Diego. Or you can go to whatever is the haunted place near you and have your own experience. Just open it up. Open yourself up to it. My last word is I describe it like going to a movie. And this works with UFOs too, I think. As much as I've made fun of Stephen Greer over the years, and I have, with good reason.

Although a very polite man when I interviewed him years ago. So there's that. Good to know. But he does that contact thing and you go out and shine flashlights and stuff. But the truth is, you know, I wouldn't do it with Stephen Greer because he's going to charge it. But you can do that. I would recommend New Mexico or some deserted state

where there's a clear night sky. But, you know, maybe you can go out and make contact with whatever's out there. But it's like going to a movie. You're not going to experience anything, even have the chance to experience anything, I don't think, unless you are open to it in some way, shape, or form, which is like putting your money down, buying your ticket, and say, I want to go see Rise of Skywalker for the 12th time. Which, oh, gosh. You deserve what you get then.

Yeah, there's a special place down there for those who have to watch that movie that man. He's hanging out with Log Squad. Okay. Yeah. Enough about ghosts. You started it. I did. I really did.

We had to. We had to. Let's move to what people want to hear about truly, and that's UFOs, Paul. Top five. People love lists. You go to any website or any YouTube channel, and they're always doing top ten this, top ten. Today we're going to do Paul Kimball's personal top five favorite. UFO cases. We discussed whether we should do

top five most documented or top five most favorite. I want my audience to get to know you more. So we decided to go with favorite. No, you don't. Bad idea. You don't get to know me. Okay. That's bad, man. That's what they say about me in euphology. So I did a film 2007. I did a number of docs about UFOs for Canadian and New Zealand television. Weirdly enough, years ago, before I became famous for other things.

ghost hunting in future films. And I did a film called Best Evidence Top 10 UFO Cases. And some of which I actually think have been explained to my satisfaction, a couple of which I don't believe in. Two of those will wind up on my little favorite because I still think they're great cases. And two of them are on, I still consider them unexplained. But I wanted to do a favorite list because I don't want to talk about evidence too much. There's a couple of points I'd like to make as I return to Uphology for like an hour.

And then runaway screaming again until I see a chandelier UFO or something. Too soon, too soon. No, it's not too soon. It's not too soon. I'm burning it down. Chandelier. Is that the song? Yeah, everybody who might know me from like 15 years ago is going, yeah, we didn't miss him.

He's the skunk at the garden party. Yeah. I was in Jacques ballet. I was like heretic amongst heretics. Oh, I like that. Well, who did he say that about it? I think he said it about himself. Oh, okay.

So I kind of like saying it about myself. A self-proclaimed heretic amongst heretics. I think that was valid. Interesting, interesting. So two of them are on in that film, which is you can see for free on YouTube. It's still there. Yeah. There's a couple of other cases like the Tayron UFO case that I still think are interesting.

That's my favorite. There's, I don't know if there's any. Randlesham's on that list. I don't think Rendell Sim is a particularly good case anymore. I didn't even really back then. I might want to circle back to that. You can circle back to that and I can explain why. It's not the worst case ever.

Yeah. But do you just want me to tell you my list? Let's do it. Let's go, I guess, descending order. I don't know if you're in order. Let me think about this. Yeah. Whichever, it doesn't matter.

Because the Hopkinsville Goblins cases on it and it's got goblins. Oh my God. So let's start with Godblins. How is that number one? Yeah. Tell us about why. Spocko, you look like a goblin. Would you like to describe this case?

Please do it. Oh, my gosh. So, you gotta stay committed to this. I can't commit to my role. He's an actor, right? Okay, no, I can't do it. All right. We'll get Paul Kimball to do it.

Hello. Sorry, wait. Yeah. Okay. If you're watching this on YouTube, we're doing the Vulcan. Total Star Trek nerds. Is that live long and prosper? Yeah, I think so.

Just love. Oh, gosh, am I going to get copyright strike for this? Yes, no. Sorry, we're Zoiberg from Futurama too. Those are the Zoiberg clause. All right, Coblins. So why do I like certain UFO cases? Two of them are going to be because I think they're really good cases.

A couple others because there's a point to make, and I think that's important. The Hopkinsville Goblins case is just a cool case. I don't actually think it was UFOs and aliens. and goblins, although it might well have been, the explanation of a couple of great horned owls or something like that and some guys out in the woods drinking, which, you know, like, and a comet flying over, like there's an explanation that you could probably piece together. And maybe that's what it was or maybe it was bog squatch or, you know, something like just weird stuff happens, folks.

So anyway, it was August 195. Oh, the other reason why I like this goes back to why I like ghost hunting, because you can go to these places. So my wife and I were in Nashville, Tennessee, last year, and she loves, to the point where she would divorce me if the opportunity arose for her to marry Rick Springfield, she loves Rick Springfield. I love Rick Springfield, not in the same way, but I love his music, too. So we were down there to see Rick Springfield play at the Rhyman Auditorium, like the center of country music in Nashville. And great show, by the way, Rick, awesome. I didn't have a condition, but she said, look, I know you love Rick Springfield too,

but if you want to do something, like what would you like to do today? And I said, well, we're going to get in car and we're taking a drive. And she went, oh, awesome. Where are we going? Some scenic road or something? I said, yeah, sure. So it turns out it's not that far from Nashville, an hour, an hour and a half, to Hopkinsville, Kentucky.

So I said, I'm going to this place, Hopkinsville, Kentucky. And she went, oh, what's in Hopkinsville? And I went, there's a museum there and I want to go to the museum. Oh, okay. Is there anything else? No, not really. It's a sort of a, sadly, it's kind of a, it's not a dying town, but it's a town that has seen better days.

Lovely people. So she's like, why? And I said, well, you'll know when we get there. So I get there. I mean, it's not a tourist town, folks. I'll just be honest. But the museum is very nice. There's a lovely museum there.

They have some great civil war exhibits. It's some paranormal guy. I can't remember who it is, but like a psychic or something is, I could look it up centered there. It doesn't matter. The Hopkinsville Goblins case is profiled in the museum. And I wanted to go to the museum to see the Hopkinsville Goblins exhibit. Oh, wow.

It's not all that big, but it's kind of cool. And they have a little, you know, I'll send you the picture. And maybe it's appearing over Ryan's head right now. I don't know what he's going to do. But there's a picture of me. I won't give you my wife's picture, but it's next to the Hopkinsville goblin. Oh, the little thing.

There's graffiti around the town on the walls that have like the little goblins and stuff. That's so cool. Totally cool. So I did, I wrote for Alien Worlds magazine, which was a magazine about 15 years ago at the UK, great magazine. And I sort of had my seven euphological wonders of the world. I should have put Hopkinsville on it. Like the Rendezsum Trail was on it.

Roswell is clearly on it. I mean, certain things that you want to go see. The Integratron and Giant Rock. of course the contact team of it but hopkinsville kind of has that feel so i love ufo tourism and hopkinsville is great so the case itself you know these the two families out in the woods and they basically take a few pot shots at what they think are goblins attacking them and the skeptics say the barn owls and that the people were drunk and maybe you know some say the military investigated it some say it was the army some say it was the air force the police

somehow get involved. You folks can look up the details. But I love the case because it is a real, I know Greg Bishop does too. He first introduced me to it. I love folklore. I'm a historian at heart. This is just a cool piece of Americana from the 1950s when people were growing up and Sputnik was going overhead and the space race was happening and nuclear weapons were out, movies were coming about, you know, creatures that were deformed like Godzilla or whatever and crab people and stuff. And everybody's like there was a, I hate the term paradigm, but there, so it wasn't a paradigm. But there was a real shift. The end of the Second World War was a total shift.

Dropping nukes coming up, unlocking the atom, changes everything. And within 20 years, you know, almost we're on the moon. Yes, we did go to the moon, folks. For some of you that don't buy that. Yes, you've heard it here. So that you can look throughout human history and go, okay, hold on. They were still using horses in the Second World War. and 25 years later we had men walking on the moon.

That's insane. That kind of jump. So in that kind of environment, all sorts of stuff. Crazy stuff is happening. And it really is the golden days of UFOs, but also everything from Gray Barker and Jim Mosley and all those guys with the men in black, all sorts of great stuff. I mean, I'll dump the men in with the Hopkinsville Belvenants because I think it's all part and parcel of the same mythology.

Yeah, yeah. And I think if you ignore. and I used to, when I started in euthology, I was, oh, very serious. We need scientific study. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Uh, contact ease. Crazy stories like the Hopkinsville goblins. Men and black.

No, that's the good stuff. Yeah. That's the fun stuff. That's the interesting stuff that actually ties in maybe with ghost hunting or folklore and just human history. So did they see goblins? I don't know. Maybe.

Or they saw something maybe paranormal. I wouldn't say alien. I would say maybe paranormal. Did having a few beers help them conjure it? Maybe. But you know what? Altered states of consciousness. I don't know.

Did they take a few shots at it? Absolutely. There's no question because it's rural Kentucky. They'd still do that, I think, today. But you can go to the museum. I would recommend you do it in Hopkinsville. Lovely museum. Nice town.

Some good burger joints. But you have that sort of, it's like being on the old Route 66, right? Yeah. Like that part of America is gone. or not gone. It's still there, but it's often forgotten. You know, Republicans versus Democrats or whatever they're fighting about. It's like, you know what? There was a time where we could all agree that freaking goblins in the woods in Kentucky were cool, no matter what they were. So I would like to think that somewhere out there, the goblins are still there.

And someday they will come back and unite us either under a Trump or Harris presidency, whichever way it's going to go. And the elections in a couple of days when we record this. It's November 2nd, I think. Scary. Yeah. Yeah, no. And just go, you think Trump's scary. We're goblins. We're actual goblins from hell.

But we're reaching across the aisle. But that kind of folklore, I think, is fundamentally important to you. Yes. You ignore it at your risk, the weirdness. As valet would say, the high strangeness. As I went through and looked, you know, you can look, and there's a serious case or two on here. But as you look at like, oh, yes, pilots. and Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blasley,

good for you. Goblins. Men in Black. Like, there's weird, can we swear on your show? Absolutely. There's weird shit out there, folks. And the UFO field has a lot of hoaxers, a lot of fakers and a lot of things that have been, Jonathan Reed and all that stuff that have been, whatever. But there's genuinely weird cases.

And one of the things about Hopkinsville, the skeptics said, some skeptics said, hoax. And the official line, from the authorities at least seem to be, We don't really see any sign of a hoax, misidentification maybe. These people don't seem to be hoaxing anything. Yeah. So I just, cool case, great case. I've nattered on about it long enough, but I love it because it's got goblins.

It's part of Americana. That's important. I love that. I love that. That's such a perfect case to start with. Goblins can unite us all. Goblins. Who would have thought?

I'm going to make that a T-shirt. Goblins unite. Always thinking. Always thinking. All right. That's true. Let's move to number four. What is our net?

They're not in order. Oh, okay. Number four, June 1959, they call it the Father Gil case, which is why I want to talk about it. The Papua, I think it's Papua New Guinea case, frankly, just New Guinea. We'll go with New Guinea. And so a missionary, I think he was an Anglican or Church of England, missionary, missionary, Episcopalian, I think. But he's a missionary in New Guinea.

and 25 locals, including, so, well, I won't spoil the punchline, but including medical techs and teachers. So why I want to talk about this case is because of cultural bias. Okay. And I spoke about that years ago at the retro UFO con in Landers. So has anybody ever wondered why most, the fast, overwhelming majority of UFO cases seem to be reported from Western societies and certainly the ones we take seriously. Right. Everyone always says that, but no one ever has an answer as to why. I'm curious why.

We're biased. I don't want to say we're bigoted, but we're biased. We have an inherent built-in cultural bias that even if we don't like to admit it, good, I'm a liberal, small ill liberal, you know, good liberals, progressives, whatever we are. You know, oh, we're enlightened and everything. You know, well, the third world. you know, there's, so, ooh, Father Gil, well,

he's one of us. So, okay, we have one good witness. And then we have 25 others who are local,

or as many people at time, referred to them, natives. Different time. In a, you know, what was still

then a colonial territory. So good case because multiple witnesses see over, I think it was two nights, the glowing

circular object in the sky with portals and humanoid figures on the thing. And it's just like, okay, that's a pretty good case with anything with multiple witnesses. But Donald Menzel. Oh, I haven't heard that name in a while. Stan's arch enemy. Like, look, I like debunkers.

Stan was a debunker. Bob Lazare, who is bunk. Stan debunked Bob Lazar. So there's nothing wrong with being a debunker on a case-by-case basis. But if you're just a debunker out to debunk everything, without really giving it due consideration, cough, cough, Donald Menzel, cough, cough. Then, okay, let's take a look at your debunking.

And so he said, well, this case is basically, and you can find this on the internet, I'm paraphrasing, this case is basically we had one, I mean, I'm just going to say, folks, we had one white dude, and we had a bunch of natives who viewed him as a holy man. So, of course, they were inclined to believe whatever he told them. You immediately strip the agency away from these sentient human beings who,

while perhaps not having a university degree from wherever Gil went to university, are still not like meanderthals and their own observations, their own beliefs. Now you can take into account that maybe because Gil was a bit of an authority figure, that can play into it a little bit. But to just, I don't use the term whitewash, but to just whitewash it and say, well, because he was their holy man and their guru, you know, like men, said, clearly, you know, this case can be discounted. And then, okay, no, 25 human beings, and I believe it was 25, including teachers,

like if you really want to get into, well, were they all, you know, just, again, this is not me, folks, but, you know, uneducated, illiterate, stupid natives. They weren't. Even if you believe that, teachers, medical technicians, and yes, some local villagers, fine, they all have agency. But we look at the case and all, they literally call it the Father Gil case. That's what it's called. Why the Father Gil case?

Gil case. He was one of 26 witnesses. Now, he's the one that the media picked on and he continued to talk about it for some time. Fair. But 26 witnesses, I think it was 26. Only one of them was Father Gil. Why don't we just call it the New Guinea case? Right.

You know, we don't call Roswell the Mac Brazel case. Yeah. We call it the Roswell case because it had multiple witnesses for good and ill. But in New Guinea, it's the Father Gil case. And then Benzel's other crazy explanation, you know, it comes up with the explanation. Like, well, it could have been Venus, which is possible, by the way. People misidentified Venus as UFOs. All this time.

Gill had eyeglasses and he wasn't wearing him in stigmatization of his eyes and everything. And, you know, Heinek, I think it was Hining, went through and said, no, actually, they did talk about Venus. They specifically ruled it out. Gill didn't ignore it. He said, nope, that's not what it is. And he had his glasses on kind of thing. You know, like, it's just skeptics, just not skeptics. Skeptics good.

DeBunkers bad. And debunkers aren't necessarily bad, like Stan debunking wasar. But guys like Menzel were, and there's still a few today that continue to be. Every time I see Neil deGrasse Tyson, who I like, he's a smart scientist. But when I see him start talking about UFOs, I get it because you have to deal with guys talking about chandelier UFOs. I understand your gut reaction about this is. but take a step back and view each case, each person,

you witness each guru if you want, like Louel, Zonda, whatever, view them each individually and take their claims as an individual, don't just whitewash it. So the Father Go case is a really good example to me of Western cultural bias in UFO reporting, in UFO both like how you take a report, but also how we view UFO cases. Here's the thing. how many witnesses so let's just take

Roswell Roswell even at its best actual witnesses who actually saw something there aren't 26 no there were once but most of them have been whittled out the father Gil case has

26 witnesses on not like for five seconds not like for 10 seconds but over a prolonged period of time who see something really weird in the with humanoid figures. Do I think they saw space aliens from Zeta reticuli? I don't know. Do I think it's a really good case? Yes, still today. Not fully explained as far as I can tell. But I don't know how many of you out there watching, and I assume that if you're on Ryan's podcast, you know something about UFOs and euphology. I hope you know about this case, but if you don't, it's not your

fault. It's the fault of uphology, because when they have categorized and picked cases to put forward, why has this one, which is, I'll do the math in my head, 21, 24, 65 years old. Why does this one, why is this one not in the top like 10 or 20 that people talk about? And because most of euthology is American and Canadian and Western European and Australian and New Zealand, which is basically the old British Empire and associated European allies and occasional enemies looking at you, Germany, although all is forgiven. You know, it's a good question. I don't know.

It depends on who you ask. It's been a long time. I'm not going to judge. But it's a Western thing. And there's a lot of really good cases that are out there from the rest of the world that are not talked about. And the Gill case, and I'll still call it the Gill, the New Guinea case, is one that was talked about, but has largely been forgotten. And even no matter what you think of it, it's again like the Hopkinsville Goblins. case still a really interesting part of the UFO story and especially in the 1950s into the early

1960s when UFOs were the rage say the late 1940s to the mid 60s late 60s really have condom report so the guilt case is right there for me for a whole host of reasons is actually a good case and an interesting case and it kind of look at all these people who saw something but it's also good for me as a touchstone as a cautionary tale for why you those of us in the West or the first world or whatever we want to call it, sometimes need to just sort of pause and think about how we view the rest of the world around us and sometimes not meaning to, but just the inherent cultural bias we have that, hey, our way of looking at things is better.

Yeah. It is a true global phenomenon with implication for everyone on the planet. So I have to agree with you. I have never covered that case on the show. show and that's I am now a prime example of why and how it should be covered. Shane. Exactly. No, I'm just kidding.

Hey, look, it's not my top 10 film. Yeah. That, by the way, that top 10 list was picked by uphologists though. And I can tell you that the New Guinea case, the Father Gil case, well mentioned by one or two, was not on the vast majority of their list. Wow. Wasn't there. Are the other 10 cases that much better that were on it?

I don't think so because I think at least a couple of them have been solved or debilts or debilts debunked or whatever you want to call it. Whereas the guilt case, it is what it is. You look at it and you can say, either we believe these people or we don't. And either they saw something strange, but it has not been satisfactorily explained. So my reckoning, at least.

And certainly Donald Menzels, they were, you know, savage natives and headhunters who had a holy man tell them that space aliens were up there or whatever. I mean, that's not an explanation. It is not. Remains unexplained. Indeed. It remains a UFO.

Yes, exactly. UAPE, Paul. We're calling them that now. Did you know that? No, I'm kidding. It remains a flying saucer. Okay. Stan and T. Friedman is real.

Great film. But flying saucers are real, too. Yes. I always love Stan because he still called them flying saucers. Oh, my God. I love that. I love it. All right.

Let's move to number three. Roswell. Okay. Now, for anyone who knows me, Did Paul just say Roswell? He did. Because I spent years feuding with Stan, not feuding. People thought were feuding, no.

But arguing with Stan there about Roswell. I don't think Roswell was a crashed alien spacecraft. I think Roswell was Project Mogul. I accept the Project Mogul explanation, even though it has one or two flaws. The crash test dummies, I don't even think they needed to explain the bodies found because the body stories trace back to Glenn Dennis generally. and Glenn Dennis was shown to be an unreliable is the best way I can put it, um, witness.

And by witness, I mean not witness, uh, who jumped on the gravy train. I interviewed the man and even at the time I thought, you know, Walter Hot was telling the truth as he knew it about issuing the press release and everything. Glenn Dennis was sitting there and it was just like, I remember Glenn like, they both did, but, uh, Dennis started. He's like, well, how much are we getting paid for this interview? and Stan looked at them and I have it on video somewhere because we were recording at the time.

He said, listen, basically, listen, I made you guys. There's no Roswell without me. And this documentary, these guys are filming about me. That's my nephew. They're good guys. Don't shake them down for money. And it's just like, yeah, I was like, I don't pay interviewees.

Like, that's not my practice. No, that's very rare. Yeah. So no. And Walter Hott, he was kind of half jokes. Dennis was serious. And he said, well, you know, Stan vouchers for you kind of thing. So why do I like Roswell?

Actually, I did pay one interview he once. I won't tell you who it is. We'll save that for Patreon. Yeah, that could be on Patriot. I love Roswell, kind of for the same reason I love the Hopkinsville Goblins case. And for the same reason that while I hate them, I respect the New York Yankees. They're evil, but I respect them. Because it's so big.

And as an historian, I look at Roswell and they go, anything that can change the course of any subject's trajectory for good or ill is something I like, even if I don't like it, if you know what I mean. So fascism, fascism and communism changed the course of the 20th century of human history, both foul ideologies that caused an awful lot of deaths. I've studied them extensively as an historian. because they are so epical, if you will,

or change, like everything altered. Uphology is not world politics, and Roswell is not Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia, but it is the Russian revolution of euphology, where euphology was going along and doing its thing, and waves would come and go, and yeah, a few conspiracy stories here, a few conspiracy stories there,

but a crash saucer every now and then, Aztec years before, boom, Roswell shows up. Everything changes. Culturally, socially, within uphology, without euphology, there's no X-Files, there's no dark skies. Hey, Bryce Sable, there's no dark skies without Roswell. You know, none of that exists. Yeah.

Uphology, and maybe even our society, in a small way, would look a lot different. If Stan Friedman hadn't tracked down, Jesse Marcel and Mac Brasel and started the ball rolling, and then if he hadn't gotten sort of ripped off, by Bill Moore and Charles Brilitz with the Roswell incident and denied, but they wrote the book. And then others came in. Kevin Randall, good guy, Don Schmidt, not Kevin Randall. And, you know, and all the ones that came after, Roswell is the 100,000 pound elephant in the room. It is, it has changed so much through the conspiracy culture. And so we can see that even in our society today. If you think that uphology doesn't matter, it does.

a little. So you see all these people, and I'm not making a political judgment. There are conspiracy theorists on the left. But on the right, during the Trump years, conspiracism has really anti-government, disbelief in the institutions, distrust of authority, all of that. Can that be traced solely to you, Roswell and UFOs? No. But is there a small part of it, that the erosion of trust, Watergate is a much, much bigger thing. and the Vietnam War and there's other things that big. But every little bit counts. And Roswell's a piece of that puzzle, too.

The erosion of trust in government because it was so big. You know, the Air Force is forced to issue these reports. The crash test dummies one, I think, was Cochamane, but they didn't have to issue it. They were just trying to get this off their plate sort of thing. And even the lies that were originally told. There's no question. There was a cover up in Roswell. If you think it was a cover up of crashed alien spacecraft or two, as Stan would tell you,

great. I don't. But there is definitely a cover-up. And then that leads people like Nick Redfern to come up with his Japanese Fugu balloons, war crimes experiments theory, body snatchers in the desert, and all sorts of other things that come out too. So it's like a black hole for uphology. And euphology has been stuck in the event horizon. I hope I got the science right there for like 50 years, Is it almost 50 years, 70s? It's almost 50 years since the Roswell story started to gain some traction. Really? Yeah. And everything from Majestic 12, right up to Lou Elizondo in the current crowd,

all traces back to some degree to Roswell. It doesn't trace back really to the New Guinea case. It doesn't trace back to the contact e-movement, really. All the stuff that came before Roswell, it's like the New Testament of euphology. It was the Old Testament. And then Roswell is the Jesus of you followed. You're right. Showed up and said, there was a new word, and the word is Roswell and everything that

Roswell gives you, crashed alien saucers, aliens that look like this, government coverups and conspiracies, basically plot of the X-Files for nine seasons. And what we're talking about in Congress up until a few weeks from now. So you get good military. I think witness testimony is inherently difficult. I think military pilots generally are no better witnesses than anyone else. They're good at flying planes. They're not super trained observers in the way that people say, fine.

But there's still witnesses and they're still probably pretty good ones. And I think most of them are pretty honest. So you get these cases that are out now where who knows what they saw. But these are good witnesses. The problem is they get tainted by all this other stuff. And it's easy to, I mean, if I was running a disinfo campaign, Roswell would have been what I would have come up with. And then tacked on Majestic 12 at the end of it.

because it just infects everything else. So I think, you know, we need to data this up or Jordy or Scotty, get somebody on the UFO Enterprise to get us out of that event horizon and not only look at cases without thinking about conspiracies and cover-ups and cosmic water gates, God knows I love Stan, but cosmic watergates, or what does Bassett call the Truth Embargo? Truth embargo. I mean, the government's not your first.

friend, if you believe there's a truth embargo, they're not going to eventually go, you know what? God, we were wrong for 80 years. Now we'll tell you. So, I mean, like, these are all government people. Why are you trusting? All of a sudden. That's still that, what would you call that? Not a conundrum, but like that. It is a complete disassociation. Like, you know, like the two things do not make sense. Government is bad. They have been lying on to those for 80 years and we can't trust them. Except for these guys, we're telling us exactly what we're. we want to hear who used to be or maybe still are in government and of course they're working to get the truth out really FYI why don't they just tell you the truth like if they know the truth just tell you the truth steal the documents do whatever you're not going to go to jail like if this is the biggest i'm going on a little rant here is that okay please i'm going to get off kick no i'm so if i know where there's a football sized spacecraft buried and i believe that The secret of alien life, visiting us, even existing in the universe, but certainly visiting us, is the most important thing to change everything about humanity.

Homelessness, gone. Poverty, gone. War, gone. You know, we can all survive and live to be 200 years old. Yay. Love thy neighbor and everybody gets really hot partners. Super. We're going to have Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston bodies or whatever.

I don't know what comes. But if you think that's the world that this information can bring you and you know the truth about a giant football-sized alien spacecraft, or you want to weaponize your curiosity somehow and have the truth to release. You don't go, you know what, I'll do it next week. Or we need to have, you know, we'll have congressional hearings first, and then we'll slowly release it. We have a dead man's trigger in case anything ever happens to us. We've got five people planted across. Just tell people. Just get out there and tell people. It's not hard. and let the chips fall where they may.

Take them there. I will pay for Ryan Sprague and me, Paul Kimball, to fly to the site of the giant football stadium. We will come with a camera crew. You know who I'm talking about there, Coltart? Or Elizondo or whoever, you know, Jeremy Corbell, whoever wants to take us there. I will fly us down with a camera crew and I will film it.

And I will guarantee you that will be on worldwide television, like within hours. Nobody's going to shoot us. I'll let people know I'm going. And, you know, dead man trigger it. Paul doesn't come back. Well, you know, aliens are real and there is a government cover up. Like, don't hints and allegations only work for a Paul Simon song.

They don't work in the real world. So I reject all of that stuff. It is all bullshit. And trace it all back to what Roswell created. And good people with good intentions, including Stan, including Kevin, help build that and then it got out of control. And that's where we are. And so that's why Roswell's on my list of favorite UFO cases because it has to be.

Yeah. Even though I think it brings evil like fascism and communism tit. And it's just we have to defeat it if you are serious about whatever UFOs are, the mystery or space aliens or any of that stuff, even if you believe that aliens are here and they have a giant football-sized stadium, You should be calling this guy out who's telling you this every single day and saying, well, what? F, don't you tell us where it is?

Put it on a map. Like, Google map that stuff and let me go there. And that's just the example that always sticks in my mind, folks. But, you know, the usual thing is we'll tell you next week on our podcast. Or stay tuned. It's coming soon to be really, you've got the secret. Tell us. So the answers are in the New Guinea case and some of these other cases.

those are what we should be talking about, which is why the other two are pretty good cases, and I'll talk about that. Okay. Rant and I just lost half your audience, and I'm sorry. No. I'm cranked. No.

This is why a podcast should exist. It's to question the things we're being told by people who refuse to give us the information, but claim to have it. You know, I have a Patreon. I give bonus content to people who are willing to help. support my future endeavors with this show to keep it growing, to keep it going. But I don't ever, I have never said, I know where that craft is, but if you join my

Patreon, you can get the information. No, I say, hey, you want a bonus episode about a random case in South Africa or whatever? Like, join my Patreon. But I do agree with you. There is this tendency as of late and it's been there in different iterations throughout the decades of of euphology of um i know what's going on you don't and it's almost like uh not even a humble brag it's just a cruel it's just a cruel thing to do to a public who is supporting your work and uh listening to your shows and watching your interviews now i'm not out to say that any of these people that we may be referring to, have bad intentions. I think a lot of them firmly believe the information they're being told.

That includes the people testifying in front of Congress. But it's just hard, Paul, because like I find myself as a UFO podcaster and whatnot, who tends to be on the fence a lot of the time, stuck in the middle of things like this. Like I can talk, I can go have a beer with Lou Elizondo. I can sit and talk to you. You might not have to this episode. Yeah, right, right. Look, I can have a beer with Lou Elizondo too. Yeah. Yeah, I could have beer with anyone. Yeah. Except maybe Ross Colter. But it's, it's like most of the people you're talking about are fine, good people, but especially witnesses and stuff, like the pilots and things like that.

For sure. They talk about what they see. some people I think get used and abused. I really don't know what to make of David Grush, for instance, but I think he has fallen in with the wrong crowd, shall we say. And maybe there's something there at a core. I don't know. But just some people make claims that are just so outrageous that like put up or shut up. And I'll tell you this.

So one last mini rant, very small rant. Bob Lazar There's two Euphology has two Dracula's. I used to think it was the Aztec case. I called it Uphology's Dracula because it keeps getting resurrected. I helped resurrect it. I was like the idiot in Dracula 3. No, what if we take the stake up?

So I made a film about Aztec and it rampaged the euphology for two or three years. It was a slight skeptical film, but still, once you pull the stake out, it's like you can't control where it goes. So I know where if I speak because I was slightly guilty of it myself unintentionally. But Lazare is the other, for me, the monster or whatever, the Dracula that you're pulling the steak out of it.

And so I remember, we've talked about it. Ryan and I talked about UFOs and all sorts of stuff when we're driving around through the ghost hunting thing. And this guy, folks, not just because he's my friend. You should listen to his podcast. Clearly you are. This guy will give you the straight scoop. Whether you agree with it or not, he's always honest. And it takes the middle of the road.

It's cool. So, you know, after this episode where I rant about these people, he would probably happily have them on and say, well, you tell your side story. Yeah, for sure. That's a good thing. And tell us where that UFO is. But Jeremy Corbell and Stan Friedman sitting on the same stage, one of the worst things I've ever seen, the disrespect that Corbell showed Stan.

And, you know, like, basically you don't know what you're talking about. And Stan's like, well, can you explain to me why he said he went to MIT and he didn't go to MIT and blah, blah, blah, blah. Stan debunk wasar. And Corbell, like a dog with a bone, just, I'm just like, ah, you know what, I know Stan Friedman. And you, sir, I know Stan Friedman, and to quote Lloyd Benson or paraphrase Lloyd Benson. And so when I see things like Lazar return and you get on these Corbells show, first of all, I hate the term weaponize your curiosity.

You shouldn't weaponize anything. But don't put that in the universe. but secondly, you know, next week or like a month or if you buy my film or anything like that, yeah, Stan stole, sorry, didn't stole, Stan sold stuff in his life books and things like that. But you know what else Stan would do? You could call him at his home. That was a different time. Yeah.

But Stan had a line, I know. My aunt sort of hated it. But there were two phones in the house. There was the, hi, we're the Friedman's and, you know, where are we having lunch? And there was the bat line, you know, hi, Stan Friedman here. Yep, I called the bat line. There you go. And you could call him.

And Chris Ledger and Don Stiles, here's a segue for you. My next case is Shag Harbor. Chris Ledger and Don Stiles called Stan up and just, you know, Stan talked about it in the top 10 film that I did about how he helped these guys. Stiles still talks about it. We were at the Shag Harbor Con a month ago in Yarmouth. And Stiles consistently gives, he said,

we, Stan set us on their way. He was so generous in time with his time. He gave us lead. to follow, blah, blah, blah, blah, didn't hide anything from us. Stan would talk to anyone, anytime, about anything. Yes. He would listen to anyone's story anytime about anything.

As crazy as it seemed, I would see him at conferences, and I'd go, Stan, what are you doing? And Stan would say, well, she bought a book. But, you know, even if she didn't buy a book, he still, you never know. Yeah. I contrast that with certain other people who, like the idea of Stan Freeman having a podcast where he,

no offense to you, is just because you do a journalistic podcast, but one where you would dribble out the secrets and all that sort of stuff would be anathomative. If Stan actually had the goods, I guarantee you Stan would release the goods. If he knew where the spacecraft was, it's over there. If he knew, you know, like here's all the trove of documents.

Chuck, here they are. You know, like it proves, I'm right. Yeah, yeah. That's the old uphology and Stan had his flaws. But the new euphology, let's just say I miss Stan. That's all I'll say. I miss Stan. And many of those who have followed in his footsteps, you know, as we used to say in university,

he couldn't carry his jockstrap, much less his intellectual heft. So even when he was wrong, he was more right than a lot of people today. Amen to that. Amen. Go stand. So the Shag Harbor, so that's my rant, the Shag Harbor UFO case, which Ryan is doing a documentary on. I had nothing to do with it. What?

Don't say that. I loaned you the camera crew. That was it. Is an awesome case. It is, people used to call Shag Harbor Canada as Roswell. Unfortunately, a little bit of that's true because part of the problem with Roswell is there was a core, something happened and a few good witnesses about something. And then all of a sudden there's hundreds of witnesses that are making stuff up or had nothing to do with it or jump on the gravy train, whatever. And Shag is starting to get some of that too.

But nowhere near as bad. The core story of Shag Harvich happened in 1967. Excuse me. So it's 57 years ago. I know because I was born in 1967. So that's an easy one to remember until my mind. Are you Superman? Did you crash in Shag Harbor?

I did. I crashed in Shag Harbor. No. Nobody wants to see what's under the sweater. Same here. My wife doesn't want to see what's under the sweater. It's like, no. So Shag Harbor is great.

It's a pretty basic story at its core at its Shag Harbor core. And I'm going to throw it over to you because you can talk about the Halifax Corps because now you've been read into the secret. Yeah. which isn't a secret. These guys driving around, young kids driving around in a car, see something flying overhead. So do other people in Shag Harbor,

which is a really remote fishing community in Nova Scotia. They call the RCMP, for those of you not Canadian, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. They're the ones in the red coats who don't wear the red coats anymore. I haven't worn those in decades, except for ceremonial occasions. But they're the Mounties, you know, Sergeant Preston of the Yukon kind of thing. And the Mounties show up and people see stuff and it's in the sky. and then goes down whether it crashes or lands in the water.

It depends on how you want to view it. Floats in the water and then under the water and then off it goes. Leaves a goobly jolat, this kind of foam that glows in the water. Lori Wiccans is the witness that I know personally. Dickie Wiccans, as they call him down there. And I just call him more. And Ryan interviewed him. Lori, God love him.

The accents are thick in Shag Harbor sometimes. And Laurie is, if you've ever gone to Scotland and hit the outer aisles, I mean, I live there for a year. You live there now. Sometimes the accents can be incomprehensible. It's like you're on another planet. Lorries is one of those. So my translation matrix with Lori is at about 85%. And I have to listen really carefully.

I think Ryan's at about 60 maybe percent. Maybe. I'm getting there. The more I come to Nova Scotia and go to Shag Harbor and talk to Lori, the more. Yeah, you sort of start. We didn't this guy over there who came down here in Atlanta. He went here by the phone board and called up a night. You know, whatever.

I can't do it, but that's something like that. That's pretty darn close. Would he be offended if we use subtitles? Probably not. Okay. Because the truth is you might have to. And that's fine. People speak in different dialects.

We don't all speak in the Queens English. Oh, I'm sure people think that about our accents too in other countries. Exactly. Anyway, sorry. Sorry, the King's English. Here we were talking about Western cultural bias earlier. And even within the Western world, we have a bias towards people from small rural airport communities.

Yes. I do not. I love them. That's where my relatives come from, small town, Atlantic Canada. I just don't have the accent. I wish I did because it's, but Lori's is incomprehensible. But when he tells the story, his story has not changed in 57 years. No new additions like, well, you know, when it came down the water and I saw an alien,

nope, nothing. Same story. Every time he tells it, boom. The core story of Shag has never changed. That kind of, I just gave you the bare bones lands. There's more to it, as you have discovered. Yeah. Which most people don't talk about.

But there's also more on the front end. But there's also before the incident in Shag Harbor. But there's also a lot more in the back end. And this is where I leave Shag Harbor. And my friend, Chris Stiles, because they've continued. And there's like the traveled underwater to an old Canadian forces station off Sandy Point. Nova Scotia's up the coast. I shot a film there once because they turned it into soundstage.

It was a top secrets submarine detecting station during the Cold War. So that's legit. It really was a base. You know, off the coast, American and Canadian forces came. Divers went down. You know, there's this other case that was a few years earlier than eventually. Another UFO joined it and they traveled to the Gulf of Maine and flew up in the sky and Bob's your uncle.

Chuck, did any of that happen? I don't know. The evidence for that, to me, it reminds me of Roswell. you got alien bodies like, yeah, just stick with the core case. Because in Shag Harper's case, unlike Roswell, where you never actually saw something in the sky. In Shag Harvard, people did. It's actually a UFO. Roswell, it's just a something is in the desert foe. Whereas in Shagg, it's actually UFO. So you know what, Roswell is Canada, is the United States is Shag Harbor. Except it's not because it's not as good. So Shag's a great case for that

reason alone. Solid witnesses, multiple witnesses, seeing things from different vantage points, reported to the police, absolutely investigated by the authorities here in Canada, the police, the military, no question about that. And their answer is, and I'm, I think this is a direct quote, folks, from the Canadian official report. I don't know. Something that's, couldn't tell you.

Like 57 years later. Don't know. Yeah. I mean, if they had it, you know, if it was a Soviet satellite that crashed or an American spy plane or something, you know, whatever. Well, okay, it's been 57 years. You know, the worst Air Force in the world has better tech than what was back then.

It's like, you can release the secret. There's no reason to keep it. They have not. There has not been an answer proper and people have asked. So the fact that they haven't doesn't mean it was space aliens, but it means to me they don't know what it was. So they're not going to make up an answer or try and fit one. in like they did with the crash test dummies, even though they didn't need to in Roswell.

They're just not, it's like, well, we don't know. We just don't know. Keep looking. If you find something, tell us kind of thing. And to me, that's like, what does UFO mean, Ryan? What are the three letters stand for? Does it have the first one? It does.

It's unidentified. 57 years later, it's still unidentified. Does it have the second one? Indeed. It was flying. Checkaroo. And was an object? Boom.

Yes, it was. Yes, it was. So when you want to find the best, best UFO case in history. It's in rural Nova Scotia down on the south shore, the very tip of the province. So please call Shag Harbor. There's a U, there's an F, and there's a No. And there it is, Shag Harbor. And there's actually more at the front end of the case, taken away, Ryan's Craig. Yeah, I mean, there's so many witnesses, like you mentioned, too, some of which you will see in my documentary. And the most important thing about this case,

like you mentioned, is documentation. There's documents, official documents, this case. There's radar data. There's testimony from members of navies in Canada in the U.S. This case has everything you could ever dream for except an answer, which is, you know, euphology in a nutshell. But what we're doing, what I'm doing with this documentary, is trying to find those witnesses and triangulating, you know, what happened, what did people see? What did people not see? And is there any truth to these new claims being made?

Think about things that happened after whatever went into the water at Chey Harbor, everything after that. Yeah. Because Lori Wickeens and the RC&P and those guys don't talk about anything after it really disappeared. It's all stuff that happened afterwards. So I discount that only because, not because it didn't happen, but because I have not seen the evidence yet that would satisfy me,

that that is compelling. Everything before that, though, is compelling and undisputed, including my business partner. So Ron Foley-McDonald, who is the president, he's not even really my business partner. Technically, he's my boss. But a dear old friend, go back like 30 years in the music industry, Ron is seven or eight years older than me.

He was eight. I think he was eight years old, seven or eight. Yeah. In 1967, when the Shank Harper instance. happen. Now you're thinking, and I would too. Spocko, would you think this? Yes, it would be logical at this point to assume, Captain, that this Ron Foley McDonald would have lived in Shag Harbor and witnessed it there. You're right, Spocko, and yet, not so much. Ron lived in Halifax. We are about, what is it, a three hour drive, two and a half to three hour drive to Shag Harbor? Yeah. So Ron grew up here,

just across the harbor from where we are. Brian, you interviewed Ron in his house last week. Yep. Tell Ron's story in a nutshell. Yeah, sure. So Ron, like you said, was seven or eight years old. He was outside with some friends. You know, it was starting to get dark. So they're riding their bikes and whatnot. They're getting ready to go home, have dinner or whatnot.

And all of a sudden, the friends hear something first. And it was a sound that Ron, and he said his friends just could not describe. They had no, nothing to compare it to. Just an unearthly sound, he said. And then what they saw was a massive light or lights streak right down their street at like the level of maybe a, let's say, a nine to 10 story building low, very low and head towards the harbor. And just the way Ron recounted this so many years later, I could tell it still affected him. Whatever it was that he saw that night of the Shag Harbor event was traumatic. Two and a half hours away from Shag Harbor, although it didn't take it that long down to Shag.

That's how far we are. Yeah. Reported in the newspapers in Halifax. And unlike the Roswell case, not retracted the next day or whatever. Right. It's like, oh, suddenly it's a weather balloon. No explanation often other than some continual reportage about the authorities are looking into this and taking it very seriously. We don't know what it is.

So Ryan's going to try the publisher of the local paper, the Halifax Herald, then is still alive today. Yeah. And so Ryan's trying to track him down. Trying to track him down, you know, this is what you do. You try to get to the main sources of the case. And we've been very fortunate to get the primary witness, Lori, to get another brand new witness that's never come forward in Ron. We have a...

Chris Stiles is a witness, so you've talked to too. Chris observed, he lived in Dartmouth, which is the city across from Halifax, where I grew up. And why Chris is so fascinated by the Shag case is he saw it too. He saw it too. On the, as Ron did, and then it continued on down until eventually it stopped at Shag Harbor. Yeah. Well, in the other big fascinating thing about all this is we have worked with the people in Barrington in Nova Scotia, where we've gone to their museums.

in an investigated paranormal activity there. However, we have been speaking with an archivist at Barrington, Sam. She will be in the documentary. And what she was able to dig up astounded me. These were cases that had some striking similarities to the Shag Harbor event, some hundred years earlier even, which is crazy. There was another event in Barrington Harbor that was almost identical. same yellow lights that went into the water

and sort of floated there and then descended into the ocean. So I don't know if it has something to do with Nova Scotia or the harbors, but we are finding... We're special folks. You are, apparently, which is amazing. So to have all of these people, you know, be so accessible, I truly think that maybe we won't answer what crashed in Shag Harbor, but we are going to bring it to the next level, as it were.

Seriously? Seriously. I love it. Sorry, we're making a good nature of fun of one of our fellow ghost investigators who says, I love it seriously at the next level. We love you, Amy. We love you, Amy. If you're watching this for some reason, which I don't think you ever believe.

Probably not. Well, she might know. Amy Murphy. If we tell her, we mentioned her, she will. It's true. She will. She'll tune in. So if you summon her, she will come.

Yeah. So like a Sasquatch. like a blog, a block squatch. I got to stop saying. But that's what makes Shagg so special. Plus, I just like saying Shag. Plus, I also like to tell, you know, if you took Shag Harbor and introduced it to Dildo, Newfoundland, because there is actually a small village in Newfoundland called Dildo, what would you get? And I think what you would get is a bog squatch. Nine months later, you'd have a bog squawks. Thank you for keeping it family-friendly. Family-friendly. Wait, you said I could swear on this show, but I can't talk about creating a bog-squatch.

I'm pretty sure this is the first time the word dildo has ever been used on somewhere in disguise. And yet we're just talking about a town. Yeah. Name dildo. Get your minds out of the gutters, people. Imagine like if Paul Weller instead of a town called malice had written a town called dildo. I'm not sure the jam would have been quite as popular. I do think so.

Anyway, do, do, do, do, don't call dildo. Sorry, now I'm going to be singing that the next time I hear the jam. Well, that's entertainment, folks. Sorry, totally jamming out. Don't want to yuck your jam there. That's what you get here. So Shag Harbor is my favorite UFO case. I think it's the best UFO case tied maybe with the next one because it is UFO.

It's got multiple moving parts, multiple witnesses, all of whom are credible. And at the end of the day, 57 years later, it is still a you. It's still a you. Yeah. All right. We've made it. Number one, what is your favorite UFO case? Hey, everyone.

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Ryan's going to cut half of this. I already know some of this is good. This is a dead man's trigger. If Ryan cuts anything I've said, I have five people stationed around this country that will post it or something. There we go. The RB47 case from July 1957. Oh, okay. It is the number one case in my film, Best Evidence UFO sightings, which you can buy on DVD,

but I would tell you not to because you can get it for free on multiple, including the people who pirated it. Dahr, you pirates, but also from our distributors, which I think UFO TV and paranormal media, whatever in the U.S. It's up on YouTube. Yeah, we'll find out. Feel free to watch it. It is the number one case.

I will not describe the case because you can watch it. in the film and it literally tells you about the case. But in a nutshell, top-notch Americans, not a top-notch, but a super secret American spy plane, electronic surveillance plane in midst of the Cold War. The crew, top-notch crew, like these are the best of the best, you know, pilots and highly secret clearances and everything. These guys know what they're doing. I mean, all pilots do.

I hope. Certainly the ones flying the planes I'm on, unless it's a Boeing max, which case doesn't who your pilot is when the door flies off. I really hope I'm not on a Boeing tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hope you're not either.

Although I think you are. This might be the last episode. Oh, my God. Somewhere in the skies. Your new host. Somewhere in the skies becomes somewhere in the ocean. Oh, my God. It's funny because it's not true.

Somewhere in the shaggy dildo. I am a time lord. I know he's already made home to Denver safely. But yeah, so they see this thing tracks them. It's observed by ground radar, tracked by ground radar by the radar and the equipment on the plane. There's a visual sighting, blah, blah, blah, blah. The explanation offered by Project Blue Book was it was a civilian airliner hundreds of miles away that somehow all of these military people mistook for like a UFO. Okay, thanks, Blue Book.

But what makes it interesting to me, and again, watch the film. It's for free. It's like a nine-minute segment. You can skip the case number one. Although Shag's in there, too. So you can watch the bit on Shag because Don Ledger. I think I interviewed him. Oh, sweet.

So good bit there. But why it interests me, I've always thought it's the best case. It's not the only RV-47 case. Really? There's a guy in the film. You'll see him. He's recently passed away, sadly. Lieutenant Colonel Bruce Bailey, who became a friend of mine, nice guy,

went to Texas to interview him. I was set up with him by a researcher named Brad Sparks, who was aware of him. And Brad was one of the foremost advocates of the RB47 case. It's not a sexy case when you know, there's no, I'm an alien and I'm abducting you or something. There's none of that. It's just a really good evidential case. So Brad loved cases like that. That's what he focused on.

So it's kind of like the antidote of Roswell. You know, when I say, hey, get rid of what Roswell was. You go back to cases like this. And when I'm interviewing Bailey, he wasn't on the plane, but he knew all the guys who were because he had served with him. He said, yeah, Lewis Chase, like these were guys who trained us, Provenzano, all those guys. These were the best of the best.

And it was a shakedown mission for that particular plane. So they put the best crew they had, the All-Star team, if you were, will. Aaron Judge and Shohei Otani on the same plane. Neither of whom had a good World Series, but one of them won. So and then we the camera's still rolling and I go whoa like okay thank you so much sir that was that was amazing. Like you're just giving some details about these people some colors we say in the business and yeah wow well the RB47 case great he says yeah that wasn't the only RB 47 case had one of my own and I went the what no the what no okay Brett like and even Brad didn't know about this. I went you you you did and he said yeah I said um mind talking about it on film?

Like this is a guy who literally, I still have his book, wrote the history of the RB47, a super secret spy plane. He wrote the history of this when he retired from the military. And so a serious guy, although he had a pretty good sense of humor. He had a lovely state too there. It was great.

His wife was very nice. And he sort of went, yeah, no, I'll tell you. Keep a camera rolling. I can't do a Texas. I can't do a Texas accent. I'm not going to sound like Lori Wiccens here or the penguin. Yeah, let me tell you.

So love the guy. And he said during the Cuban Missile Crisis, they were flying down around Cuba on an actual mission, not a shakedown mission to. And he's in the film. He tells the story a lot better than I will with a Texas accent. And he says, our case was, I can't do it. What's a Texas accent sound like? I'm going to offend all your Texan friends. Because he had a very thick one.

Like, you know. Let me tell you about my case. Let me tell you about my case. That sounded like Bill Clinton. Yeah, it's Clinton ruined it for everybody. It's Arkansas accents. We're so sorry. Yeah, sorry.

Anyway, so he says, we're flying down there. And he was one of, he didn't see it. He was a raven, one of the electronic countermeasures officers stationed in the guts of the plane. But apparently the pilots saw it, bright white light, similar to the 57 case. And he said, we didn't, I think, check the film. It's been a while since I've watched, but I think the story is we didn't get any signal to bounce and back. and forth like they did it just wiped us out took out everything we had the most sophisticated equipment the united states air force had at the top or certainly like top five percentile it just

wiped us out i do remember that quote that's actually in the film where he says it just wiped us out and um so it's kind of the rb 47 cases are my favorite cases and i you know he said we went back and made our report and everything and i asked him i think this is in the film too i said well what'd you think it was and he said, an unidentified flying object. Like it was flying. It's unidentified. It was an object. And I said, well, what happened?

He said, we were told not to talk about it. We were told not to, you know, whatever. He said it was if you ever talked about any of these things that you reported, we were debriefed by military intelligence or whatever. AFOSI, it doesn't, whoever showed up. And, you know, we've told, do not talk about this, blah, blah, blah. And if you ever talked about it, it was the easiest way to find yourself posted to Alaska. And I think that's a Louisiana accent.

Sorry, but it's close to Texas. It's Texas adjacent. You know, and he was dead serious and looked me in the eye. And then it's like, well, okay, thank you. And cut. And then we're like, hey, that was great. And he's like, yeah, oh, I want to go get a steak. And it's like, yeah, awesome.

Let's go. My camera guy, Tim Le Muir and I went. You know, that's like, great. And we became friends. We kept in touch until he passed away. I think it was last year. So that's the kind of thing about being a documentarian, too. you think all I'm going to go do is interview this guy about this case that's known

and then he's got his own case and it's just like oh so there's not one RB 47 there's two and while we're talking afterwards he said oh it's more than two people reported this stuff all the time this stuff happened all the time what you know it's like and everybody was told you know so if you want to think conspiracy there's there is a cosmic watergate or or a truth embargo, whatever that means. It doesn't mean space aliens, but it does mean that, you know, I have talked to, and I name them, unlike some of these people out there, Bruce Bailey. Sadly, you can't talk to him anymore unless you're a ghost hunter, unfortunately.

But he's in my film. I interviewed him, I put him on camera, and I put it in a film that you can watch for free on Canadian television, TV, and Z, and now everywhere across the world. Here's his story. And that's talking about these other guys in their case that he knew, but then his own case that he hadn't told anybody. before. And sometimes that's just like what you get. You start here and then this other thing unfurls over here from a very credible witness who was one of the best of the best that the

U.S. Air Force had to offer flying a plane that, you know, defended us. We Canadians or free riders on the American umbrella of defense, defended us during the Cold War when we were staring, you know, eyeball the eyeball with the Soviets. So yeah, that is still a love shag. It is now tied with the 47 case. Those two cases are great evidential cases and they have little spin-off things. The spin-off for the RB 47 cases even better because Bailey had his own case and he was willing to hook me up with a couple of other. He said, well, you can talk to this guy and this guy said, no, I can't. I like small budget Canadian documentary, you know, like we don't have a million dollar US budget. I thank you, two is enough. And I never, that was the last UFO thing I ever made. So I never really followed up on some

the other things but you know i talked to him and he always stood by that he said yeah you treated me fairly about somebody wants to ask me about that case i'll now talk about it anyway and as far as i know nobody ever followed up with them no other UFO film no other uh UFO producers or uphologists or anybody to the best of my knowledge despite my film airing on canadian television around the world i premiered it at the ex-conference steve bassett's ex-conference in two 2008, I guess it was. It aired in a couple other QFO conferences. People were aware of Bailey's story. And to the best of my knowledge, nobody else ever went and talked to them about it. Why? Because there's no space aliens. There's no sexy answer. It's just, here's a credible guy telling you, it knocked us out. And they said we'd go to Alaska if we ever talked about it. I don't need a giant football sized arena-sized spacecraft. sitting somewhere, you know, people can't tell you about. Here's this guy telling you about this.

And he'll tell you and you and you and you and you if anybody had ever followed up. They didn't. So those cases are out there. And that's why, going back to my previous rant, I really dislike, and it's why I left you, followed you too. It was full of these guys. I dislike all the guys who muddy that stuff up because I want to talk to Bruce Bailey. And I want to talk to Lori Wiccans.

And I want to hear from them. And, you know, David Fraver. And I always forget the other pilot, the one. Alex Dietrich. Yes. Alex Dietrich. If I was still in the biz, I'd talk to those people. Give me those guys.

Give me those women. Fishermen, pilots, you know, I don't think at an Air Force pilot is any better observer necessarily than Lori Wickems looking at that coming down. I want to talk to Father Gil. And then I want to talk to the other 25 people who were there. And I'll take their story seriously. And I'll put it into the stew and see what we come up with, which is what we do. the ghost hunting show. Yeah.

You know, like there were seven or eight members of the team and sometimes the camera guys we called in. It's like, okay, different things happening to different people.

High strangeness. You know, that's great stuff. And that's why the UFO mystery, and it is still a mystery, is an enduring one and why it still resonates with me,

even though I don't make films about it anymore and I don't do a blog about it and I don't write about it or anything. But occasionally for dear friends, I'll pop on it, pop off. but also tell you, you know, why so serious, Paul?

I'm not. I'm a crazy dude. But there's serious stuff out there. And yeah, Congress should look into it. I can tell you who they should talk to. If he was still alive, start with Bruce Bailey. But haul Lori Wicken's down if you want. Or the Canadian Parliament could haul worry in with a translator.

And, you know, I love Lori. But, you know, tell his story. Like these are, and this is what Studs Terkel, famous historian in the United States would do. Helen Creighton here, folklorist, oral research methodology, oral histories. People discount, you know, always hear the debunkers go witnesses,

they're unreliable and stuff. To some degree they are. People's perceptions can be flawed. But if you get multiple witnesses telling you the same story, like there are better witnesses cases than others. If you get ground radar and plane radar with the RB 47 tracking and then other planes, it happens to them too.

Cool, lots of stuff going on there. Lori Wickeens, not the only witness, Lori and all these other guys. And there are really good cases out there. There are really fun cases too, like the Hopkinsville Goblin. Uphology has both. Those are the ones that I wish people would talk about and they would stop talking about

all the other stuff that I hated 20 years ago and I hate even more now. I do not blame you. Okay, to sort of wrap things up then, Paul, I, all right, yeah, I'm going to, You've just gone straight to the wrap up, haven't you? He's cut everything from ghost to to sort of wrap things up. Yeah, which is, it's going to be the most heavily edited episode.

I'm not editing. I'm editing none of this. It's all my fault. Yeah. He doesn't necessarily agree with me on any of this stuff. The views expressed by our guests are not necessarily those of Ryan Sprague, but a lot of them are. So I want to do kind of a, I don't want to call it a negative question. And then I'm going to end with a really positive question.

I just did tons of negative stuff. No, no. You go for it. Okay. Whatever you want. We did your top five favorite cases. What is your least favorite UFO case of all times? The same five.

The same five? I'm just kidding. Roswell. It can be, you know, it's like one of those things where it's the best in the world. It's the best of times. It's the blurst of times. Whatever the Simpson said. Okay.

I can't talk about specific cases. I'll just tell you anything to do with Bob Lazar. anything that Jaime Moussan has ever touched with a 10-foot pole. So the Jonathan Reed case really resonates with me. Just like, look at it, folks. There's bad people doing bad things out there. I don't know how people fall for it. I'm not a huge fan anymore of the Randlesham case.

I don't completely discount it. But my problem with Randlesham is, and by the way, you should go to the Randlesham Trail. The UFO Trail is one of my seven euphological wonders of the world. It's fun. I got to get there. And it's a nice part of the country. can get some really good pasties and stuff.

The stories of, so it's, I'm betwixt in between, Burroughs and Penniston, right? One of them worse than the other, worse in a sense. Like Larry Warren, okay, so Larry Warren, you can completely discount. But Burroughs and Penniston, the two prime witnesses, Halt, sort of a secondary, adjunct witness. Over the years, their stories have significantly changed and been, enhanced, shall we say. There's two ways to look at that. One way is bullshit.

These are guys who, you know, people have stopped listening to the original story, so you have to make the story a little better so that they'll keep listening to you. Happens off the type. Really does happen. My gut reaction is, yeah, it's always that. However, I am an older, wiser, humbler UFO Jedi than I was 20 years ago when I was full of piss and vinegar. So the other possibility is that they really did encounter something that was so effing weird and so paradigm changing, a word I hate to use, so life altering, that maybe it took him 20, 30, 40 years to really get their minds around it. And so I'm not a particularly religious person, but my grandfather was a reformed Baptist minister.

I did my work in my master's work. Never finished my thesis, so I can't say have a master's degree, but I have 99% of one was on evangelical religion in the Atlantic provinces in the late 17th, early 18th century. So I'm well familiar with religion, even though I'm not particularly religious. All of human culture and society is kind of built on religion, whether it's Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, you know, whatever.

All of those religions, at one point or another, kind of supernatural and paranormal, they are. All of them generally have a figure like Muhammad or Paul on the road to Damascus. Saul, sorry, on the road to Damascus. Then he changed his name to the good one, Paul, who have these experiences that change them. Saul is a perfect example,

from being a Roman tax collector to the foremost apostle that kind of built the Christian church. Yeah. Who wasn't even there when Jesus was around. He's not one of the original, but he thinks he saw him in the desert kind of thing. If you see something that is so life altering that you can build an entire religion around that, and it can grow long after Paul died, but it can grow out of that. I'm not saying Penniston and Burroughs or Saul on the road to Damascus.

I'm just saying, we should expect witnesses to high strangeness events to have their world of the view or their view of the world altered to be confused by what they saw if it's truly strange if you're Fravor flying in a plane no offense to David Fravor or Alex Dietrich and you see something okay that could be really weird and interesting but if you're up close and personal to something that happens which Penniston and Burroughs whether you believe them or not that's their testimony I think touched the object and all that sort of stuff I mean I would like to think it would take me about 40 years to process that too. Yeah. And you might process it until the day you die and you might never be able to process it. So one of two things is true about Rendlesham. Either

Burroughs and Penniston or flat out liars or Burroughs and Penniston ran into something that was so weird that it has taken them so long to process and they're still processing it. And I honestly don't know which is true. I don't. So Rendlesham, I know we had been talking about this earlier. Randallsham is one of those weird cases where I've, Lori Wiccans, I know what Lori Wickeens saw. Like Burroughs in Penniston, I don't know. And euphology is full of cases like that too, where people describe something so weird like the Stephen Mischalek case in Canada. Yeah. The Falcon Lake case in Manitoba.

You either believe him or you don't believe him because what he described happening to him and what some of the evidence is so freaking weird. Like, what do you make of that? and we should expect cases like that. And ghost hunting has turned me into a better Roby Paul than I used to be. Because when you, as I have, run into things that are so freaking weird that I can't explain them. And the people around me can't explain them. It makes me reevaluate a little bit how I maybe used to treat contactees, actually a lot and witnesses. So Randlesham, it's in my, it's, it's in my, his,

Stan would say, it's in my gray basket. Whereas Shag Harbor and RB-47 are in my basket basket, I guess. Of UFO, great UFO cases. But yeah, you know, just like weird shit's gone down on 13 seasons of haunted

and I've been there for pretty much all of it. And some of it, like a big, I'll tell this one, can I tell one haunted story to give context? So there's me. Hi. And there's Holly Stevens. Hello. And we've been together. doing this, she will continue on for like 15 years, ghost cases years ago and then haunted.

We were the OGs. And so we know each other pretty well and we trust each other, blah, blah, so Holly's doing an Estes method thing, which means you get the headphones on. She's at one end of this room in the Seabue Heritage Center, which is a local kind of community center in Clark's Harbor, not far from Shag Harbor, actually. And I'm at the other end of the room, I can see Holly, and she can see me. And long story short, She's getting words out. I think we're talking to this guy. It's a museum now.

They have this exhibit about an Albert Barber, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The word blue comes out a couple of times. The sign for Albert Barber is blue. So I'm thinking, oh, I should look at the sign. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, finish. Pretty interesting.

Pretty cool stuff going on. Some really interesting things came through that lined up with where I was. She couldn't hear me, et cetera. Hey, Holly, how's it going? Yeah, pretty good, Paul. Yeah, that was a pretty freaking cool segment. Yeah, lots of stuff came out. Oh, it matched up.

All right. Well, I'm going to go see what else is happening, but I got to go use the can here first. Okay, you didn't. And so I walk around the corner and she had been sitting here and the bathroom's down here. She could see the bathroom. And there's this big blue bookcase. And it's blocking the door to the bathroom. It's moved out from the wall. And it's blocking the door to the bathroom. So I'll bring Ken Holly back here. Holly, yeah, Paul. Did you, did you move this? No.

I'm saying, yeah, why would I move it? There's nobody, by the way, over there. Ryan, everybody else were upstairs. Two levels up. And I went, uh, what the? And she's like, what the? And so we said, well, it's got wheels. Now the floor is flat, but we're thinking, I don't know.

Maybe a mouse came through and, like super mouse and pushed it. Surely this thing is not hard to push. Maybe it just rolls all the time. Now, one of the stories in that building is that stuff moves. Like, I'm not the strongest person on the planet, folks. My shoulders hurt. It's a long story because I'm old.

But I go, okay, I'll just move. Holy. Holy, help me. Yeah, okay. You weak little, oh my God, this is actually kind of heavy. And when you move it, it makes like the wheels squeak and everything. like jurg-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d. But we slam it back into the wall, and it's like,

and then we have to move it down a bit because it's moved out and in. It's like, what does? That was there, right? And she went, oh, yeah, that was there when we started. I went, yeah, that was there. Okay, well, let's see what it would have sounded and felt like to actually move out to where it was.

And we're like, squeak, squeak, squeak, and make the thudding sound. And we just stand there and we go, uh, that was against the wall. you were in a chair. I could see you the whole time. You could see if you had looked up when Holly does that. She will often be like this so she wasn't looking. But there's no way to get over there.

Everybody else, the building was locked. There's no explanation for how and why that happened. And yet that thing moved and I didn't hear it. I certainly would have heard it. She didn't see it. And it was only when I then went to use the bathroom or the can, as I said, that I went, like what and everybody else was upstairs so that there is what uh jacques valet would call some

high strangeness that's as close to a texas i'm just going to say and that's a texas accent i finally that there is close to what we call it texas uh texas sandwich no uh high strangeness case you just got to do it with jock valet i know with jock valet i know with jock that there's what called a high strangeness case and yeah like that change that change is the way you look and think about things when you see stuff like that happen. And that's not the only time it's it's happened. Even just in this season. You guys had these guys had books.

I wasn't there, but they had books thrown at them. Like grossbuster style. Poltergeist books thrown at them in a town called Parsborough, Nova Scotian post office. And we tried to replicate it by pushing even throwing. And nope, the books always landed here for us and way out there for them. And they were all freaked out. And it's the one time I didn't see the poltergeist activity. When you see stuff like that happen, even the blue light on top of the mannequin, you just go, you know what?

Goblins and what else do I have in my list? Shag Harbor and all this stuff, pretty weird, which makes Roswell look like the least weird case of all of them. Honestly, just something landed in the desert. Yeah. I think it was Project Mogul, but whatever you think it was, all this other stuff, super weird. Like blowing out ECMs and RB47s and bubbling lights and Shag Harbor and people seeing it to an happen. hours away in Halifax and Father Gil and his 25 friends, none of whose names are in any of the reports, unfortunately, you know, but the New Guinea case, all these people seeing with humanoid

and stuff and even goblins in Kentucky. So those, I prefer to accentuate the positive, but negative, any, any Huckster, any UFO hookster at all who's selling you a bill of goods. Those are the people. Is they saying in the wrestling business? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're doing an X for those just listening. They have injured uphology. Yes.

Permanent injury. They are somewhere in the ring and they need to be taken out. Yep. Good, good, good call. Check out somewhere in the ring.com. Featuring Hornswark. W.W.W.Swagel this week. We had Hornswagel.

We tag teamed on Hornswagel. The world is a strange, strange place, Paul. To end this conversation, I thought it would be good to reflect. Say it? No, I'm not going to sing. You can sing what you want. No, these people do not. And I give my answer in song.

Oh, man. Maybe we'll do a musical episode. This interview has gone on so long. It really has. Oh, my gosh. We're going on two hours. Okay, last question. Last question.

You know, I've been in euphology for a while now. I am no longer one of the youngest UFO researchers, which is depressing, but also exciting. There's a lot of new people getting involved, younger people. And God bless them. I'm trying to help them as much as I can. You have helped me so much throughout the years in euthology, along with my mentor, Peter Robbins, and others like you and Greg Bishop and Tim Bonol and Micahanks.

And, you know, we have all these friends that we make through this one topic, UFOs. I probably never would have met you. I probably wouldn't be on a ghost show right now had we not had UFOs in common. So my big question for you is, throughout all the years that you were in uphology and going to conferences and making documentaries and doing all this. What's like the one memory that really stands out for you that you're like, wow. I can't talk about that.

Oh, you can't talk about her. No. No, I'm just, sorry. Scantious. That is an inside joke. Car conversation. What's the one memory that stands out for? Yeah.

What really, like, that brings. you back to like, wow, we had some good days. We had some good days in ecology because they're few far in between. I'll tell you that much. You know what? Fine. I've spent 20 years bashing Stephen Greer and I will spend the next 20 years bashing what Stephen Greer represents. But I'll give the man his flowers. Here you go. I tell the story about Greer all the time. So we were doing the Stand and Friedman film. It was 2001 in Irvine, California. It was a Mufon symposium. And I basically,

interviewed everybody and I had no idea who Greer was. Like I knew Stan's version of Uphology at Gondon's lectures because he's my uncle. They didn't really know much about euphology other than what Stan, what I knew from Stan and in my own interest. So Greer was kind of ascending at the time. He was the big new thing. He wasn't completely new but he was like he was the star even in the panel at that conference had Bud Hopkins whatever you think of any of these people like this was these were UFO stars, Bud Hopkins, John Mack, Robert, Robert Wood, the Majestic 12 guy, Stan Friedman, Anne Druffle, longtime nightcap researcher, I guess, and wrote the biography

of Jim McDonald. Shout out. Danny Sheehan, Daniel Sheehan, who remains on the fringes of euphology, and Stephen Greer. And Stephen Greer, by far was the star of what was happening. happening in 2001. So Barry Downing too, wrote Boblin Flying Saucers. Should read it, folks. Good book by a nice man. And so I said, oh, Dr. Greer, you know, like, could we interview you? We're doing this film. You talk about Stant Friedman and what he means to you, blah, blah, blah. And Beers like, yeah, well, can, sure. Man never turns down an interview as far as I know.

So we're interviewing everybody in a hotel room. And we're just basically, we've been talking about this. You hate how you interview everybody in a hotel room, but that's what we had. And so what we would do is, you know, they'd be in front of the curtains. We just changed the color of the lights. So Bruce, not Bruce McAbee, Rob Switech from Fufour got purple, Downing, Barry Downing got blue, whatever. But you only have so many colors of the spectrum. So by the time Greer finally is getting ready to come up, we have one left.

Now, do you want to guess what color that was? I'm going to say. If you were to pick a color that would be seen maybe as making fun of somebody in euphology, what color do you think it would be? Little green men. Yeah, we had green. It was a very bright green. Okay. And I didn't think twice about it. My DOP didn't think twice about it. We just stuck the green up. It's like, that's what we got left. We don't want to reuse these colors. And Greer's assistant by the name of Jordan Pierce or Peace. Oh, yeah. I know Jordan.

Came in and I've never talked to him since. So he could be a lovely guy. I don't know. But he wasn't a lovely guy in that day. He walks in a and he's got a clipboard. Oh, yes. Dr. Greer will be right up and he looks. Oh, my. No, no, no. Green. No, no. that will not do with that will not do dr greer oh my goodness dr greer you are trying to make dr greeer look foolish you will have to use a different color i'm like the uh okay i kind of i guess i get your point totally absolutely like we will reuse the purple or you know blue or what color works for you we can mix and match greer walks in and i turn into and i i know nothing about this guy other than he's a big time ufo guy and i go dr greer i am i'm so sorry we we didn't didn't think we have green up.

We'll just, we'll take it out, take us about 10 minutes, and Bob's drunk, we'll put blue or some other color. You just, and your assistant has totally briefed us on this. And, you know, we did not mean any offense because I'm a polite Canadian. And Greer just looks at me and he's like, well, that's, I can't do his accent either. You know, but, you know, well, that's fine in his north or South Carolina accent. It's no problem at all. Let's just get this rolling.

It doesn't bother me in the least. And no, no worry, son. And he sits down. And Pierce or peace, whatever his name is like, he's there apoplectic. He's like tossing his clipboard. He's like, I'm trying to save you, Dr. Greer. These people are evil. And I'm like, Ed Greer's just the friendliest guy in there.

I was like, oh, well, are you sure? And he's like, oh, of course not. We got lots to talk about it. I'm like, okay, great, let's roll it up. Super polite. Absolutely. That's my memory that I have of euphology, my first time out filming. Stephen Greer, who I hate everything he represents.

But he was very polite to me 23 years ago. His people, not so much. And forget, Jordan. He's just doing his job, whatever. But we were filming and we had permission the next day, Greer did his speech. Like 900 people or something in the audience.

We had permission from Mufon and Greer to film him. And Jan Harsen was the head of Mufon running the symposium at the time. And that's look it up, folks. So or don't or don't you can find it on whatever your criminal law network. Not ruling your night. Yeah. But that's the part of euphology.

I hate the most. I remember I had a handheld. So the main camera was up on a platform. They were very nice to give us a table or something. So family is, and I took a handheld and I was out, I was filming Greer kind of from the side. And I was assaulted. There's no, I mean like criminally assaulted by two of Greer's goons. And they, like I don't even know.

know they're there, but these two guys come up. One of them pushes me and the other one like grabs my arm and yanks my arm down like this. And the camera hits, well, I'm not going to stand, but hits about here. And that's, I'm not the best lawyer in the world, folks. In fact, I never actually really practiced law except for 12 days. But I did specialize criminal law. And I know what assault is and that was assault. And like, and they're like, you cannot film Dr. Greer.

And you cannot film out in the crowd because I was getting few crowd shots. Had permission to do this, by the way. I had talked about it. It's like, what? No, and I'm trying to whisper because Greer's still speaking. And people in this part of the arena notice us, but everybody else in the hall have not noticed you. 30 people are starting to realize there's a bit of a fluffle here.

Mike guys see this and I can see like they're starting to get ready to come over. Okay. I'm just like, because I'm a happy Canadian folks. I'm a Jedi. I'm trying to diffuse this. Like, listen, there's been a misunderstanding. We have permission. I've talked to Dr. Greer, but I can't do this.

And the guy yells at me as he still. gripping my arm. He left the mark on my arm. He goes, you were making a lot of people uncomfortable right now. And I just looked at him and I said, no, you're making a lot of people uncomfortable right now, including me and I yanked my arm away and said, you're getting charged. Like I'm calling the cops if you touch me again. Now half the audience knows and finally Greer notices. And he just looks over and he goes like this. And the two guys, yes, sir, the guru has spoken. And they fade away. way. Good.

And I'm just standing. My arm really hurts. Like, this is all I'd hurt. And, you know, Greer doesn't misbeat. He goes right back. He doesn't even mention, but he just looked up and he went like this. And I'm, okay. But these two guys, that is the dark side of the mythology.

The upside was Greer being friendly to me. The dark side is those guys, you know, like there are people, the minions, the Jordan Peterson now worshiping in cells in their basement or whatever. Those people exist too, and they're dangerous. and they proliferated. So when you ask me what the worst part is, that's my worst memory from Uphology is like getting physically assaulted. At the same conference where I have a pleasant memory of Dr. Greer being a congenial fellow

who wasn't worried about the green background. Yeah, he understood. So yin and yang within one conference, although there, as we mentioned, somebody else, there's another Yang in there somewhere too. Like, there's a lot of threads that came out. I mean, I don't want to tell you, folks. Uphology's got a lot of disreputable people.

a lot of neo-Nazis and anti-Semites have been in euphology for years. Erzundal, the famous Canadian anti-Semite used to, he began with UFOs, started writing about UFOs in Antarctica because he basically thought, if anybody's dumb enough to believe this, we can get them to believe that Hitler was right,

you know, and eventually kind of deported him because he was a Holocaust denier, and he was like a terrible human being. So the Germans didn't want to take him, but eventually I guess they did. So like there's all of these elements within the conspiracy subculture, euphology, all this stuff, which is why when you ask me what my

best moment is, actually it's not Dr. Bruce. I remember that one. It's Bruce Bailey sitting in this very nice former lieutenant colonel's Texas home, Texas hospitality, and getting a UFO story sprung on me. It's be it talking to Lori Wiccans at conferences and stuff and having fun with Lori Wickeens. It's meeting Mac Tonys and Greg Bishop and Nick Redfern and you and Micah Hanks and all those people that I like. That's the good stuff. Yeah. And it's the mystery of it all.

That's all the good stuff. The bad stuff, I've just scratched the surface of the bad stuff. Ignore all that. People, friends, and mystery. That's the part of euphology and the UFO mystery that I would tell people is why it still interests me, even though I don't produce films about it anymore. And why it is when people say, why did you go from UFOs? to ghosts. Why did you change? I just shrug, yeah, about the money and yeah, about all that other stuff.

But I go, I didn't really go anywhere. It's part of the same mystery to me, which are things that we can't explain. And so I don't know what they are, where they come from. I just like the mystery. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Most valuable promotions in Netflix are hosting a blockbuster triple headliner Saturday, May 16th. Rhonda Rousey returns to face fellow woman's MMA pioneer Gina Carrano in the main event. Plus co-main's Nate Diaz versus Mike Perry. And the best heavy weight in the world, Francis Ngano versus Felipe Lins.

Watch Rhonda Rousey versus Gina Carano. Live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9 p.m. Eastern Center time, 6 p.m. Pacific Time. I love it too, man. We live in that mystery every single day. It's just, it's exciting. I don't know where Spock went.

I don't know if he's teleported to a different plan. He's retired for the night. He's retired for the night. Awesome, man. Well, you know, I, I can't believe I'm bringing up this reference, but Kevin Smith. Wasn't that the end? Pretty much. It was a good way to end it.

He often talks about comic books and he always says life happens between the panels. And I really like that, you know, like it's not about this person speaking at the UFO conference or this person in this documentary or this one single case. But it's what happens in between those moments, whether it's on UFO Twitter or just a conversation like you and I are having right now. Those are the moments I cherish and treasure in this thing called euphology. Somewhere in the office. Yeah. Somewhere in the beautiful office. Too many people think euphology or any of this paranormal stuff is like rock and roll.

No, no, no, no. Well, okay. Heavy metal, frankly. Nothing wrong with heavy metal. The truth is it's jazz. Yeah. And the music is as much to go from where you are there. It's not just the notes you play. It's the notes that you don't play. And it's the spaces between the notes. And so it's the most mysterious of musical forms to me and the most intriguing, frankly, and I'm an old rock and roller. So rock's great. Blues is great. I love class. I love it all. But jazz is the freaky one that it's just like, you know, the message is sometimes hidden. not in the notes, but in what you choose not to play or what you don't see or hear.

And that's what ghosties are, that's what UFOs are, that's what Bog Squatch is. The legend of the Briar Island Bog Squatch as not just told, but created by Reinsprang and Paul Kipple, somewhere in the bog. You have only begun to learn about bog squash guys. T-shirt's coming soon. We are totally going to weaponize, monetize

everything about this with a smile on our face and a PayPal account. Yes. Make our money off. Yeah. Oh, man. Awesome, Paul. Well, we're going on two hours, buddy.

So we will close it up because we have pizza to eat. WWE Smackdown to watch. And then I'm heading home tomorrow to Scotland. I will already be there by the time you guys hear this. True. I know. But it's been a pleasure. For the parts of it that you leave in.

Yeah. So Sassie's pizza tonight in Cole Harbor. Big thumbs up from us. Sassies. So good. Two for one pizza. So good. We're going back.

We are. We played the pizza hunts and you just go. So the pizza hunt really quickly, folks, is you get in a car, you go throughout your town and you just pick a neighborhood and you, the first pizzeria you see that you've never been to that isn't a chain like Pizza Hut or whatever. You go and you order pizza from them just at random. Yeah. And it could be good. It could be bad. It's a roulette.

Yeah, it's pizza roulette. That's it. There's no such thing as bad pizza, but it could be less good pizza. And we found this place Sassie's pizza. and it is it's really good so we're getting that tonight we're watching wwee smackdown we'll be somewhere in the ring with ryan sprague later tonight and hornswoggle and then ryan will be on a plane tomorrow yeah leaving on a jet plane and i'm sad to see him go but he's coming back for more haunted so he'll be back somewhere in nova scotia in uh march probably in 2025

you heard it here first guys season 14 of haunted check out haunted if you live in canada it is airing right now on Eastlink. You can check out, like Paul said, the first four seasons right now on YouTube as well. So please go, click, like, leave us your comments on how you think the paranormal investigations went. And yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to doing that. But Paul, I'm going to leave us with the slogan we do every week here. And that is keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching. Somewhere.

What is this? Somewhere in the skies. Nailed it. Thanks. The Somewhere in the Skies podcast is part of the Lionsgate sound network. Please take a moment to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever possible. Thank you for listening.