Somewhere in the Skies - Top 5 People in UFOlogy I Miss Most (w/ Paul Kimball)

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

On episode 413, Ryan sits down in studio with former UFO researcher and filmmaker, Paul Kimball, to discuss his Top 5 people in UFOlogy that he misses most! In a special BONUS Patreon episode, Kimball will also share his Top 5 People in UFOlogy he wishes would go away. This is a cosmic conversation you definitely won't want to miss! Follow Paul Kimball: https://www.facebook.com/paul.kimball.165 Please take a moment to rate and review us on Spotify and Apple. Book Ryan on CAMEO at: https://bit.ly/3kwz3DO Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/somewhereskies ByMeACoffee: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/UFxzyzHOaQ PayPal: [e-mail] Discord: https://discord.gg/NTkmuwyB4F Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ryansprague.bsky.social Twitter: https://twitter.com/SomewhereSkies Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/somewhereskiespod/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ryansprague51 Order Ryan’s new book: https://a.co/d/4KNQnM4 Order Ryan’s older book: https://amzn.to/3PmydYC Store: http://tee.pub/lic/ULZAy7IY12U Read Ryan’s articles at: https://medium.com/@ryan-sprague51 Opening Theme Song by Septembryo Copyright © 2025 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Oh, oh, oh, we are live. Hello. Oh, hello, everybody. Paul. Paul Kimball. What are you doing in my house? It's not your house. It's my house. Wait, this is somebody else's house. Welcome, everyone, to Somewhere in the live stream. I am your host, Ryan Sprague. And with me today is a very special. guest for the live stream the one the only yeah where is that special I don't know oh damn it they didn't come I'm still waiting oh yeah I guess we'll have to settle for this guy it's gonna be our truth it's wrong killing it's wrong killings it's true inside wrestling baseball inside wrestling baseball you know whose house we're in swerves house didn't they burn that down yeah they wow we really forgot which show we were welcome to somewhere in the ring hey guys what is going

on welcome i know we're starting later tonight uh we have a very good reason for that paul and i had what we are calling potato sunday it's potatoes it's potato sunday as morrissey would say every day is like potato sunday we'll get into that why it was potato sunday but before we do that i do i do want to and i'm sure paul uh can attest wish every father out there a very happy father's day I believe our live stream fell on a father's day last year as well. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. But yes, to any of our fathers out there, thanks for joining us tonight.

We do truly appreciate that as two people who aren't fathers, but have fathers, obviously. Why don't we do it? Let's show it. We each have a photo of us with our fathers. A little touching moment here at somewhere in the live stream. We'll start with yours, Paul. Yeah. There we are. There he is. It's like Anakin and Obi-Wan.

I'm Anakin in that one. Where was that taken? I couldn't tell you. It's somewhere in Atlantic Canada, judging by the fact there's an ocean behind us. I'm standing on rocks. I think I can't remember. I was like, I don't know, 13 back back back. Wow. I had hair, folks. Didn't have to wear a hat.

He had hair. Good old days. But my dad didn't have hair, which is why he's wearing a hat. That's fair. I used to mock him for that. And he, one day he went, you know, it's genetic. And I was like, the what now? And he said, you'll, you'll, you'll find out. You'll learn.

You'll learn with that word. Your old man got me. Well, speaking to no hair, check this one out. Oh. Yeah. That's, gosh, I had to be what, two years old there maybe? Maybe not even. I think you have the same haircut now.

I do. Yeah. Pretty similar, actually. I have that same outfit, too. He wears it on haunted heart and soul. That's how he ghost hunts. He wears his jammies. A onesie.

A onesie. Yeah. So yeah, those are our dads, guys. We thought we'd go down a little trip down memory lane first and foremost. So again, happy father's day to all the dads out there. I know my dad might be watching this. So if you are, hello, dad. How about them lions?

And, yeah, Paul. If we say anything that ticks any of you off, it's our dad's fault. It's our dad's fault. So today is the special day where we blame it on the dads. Nice hat, by the way. Yes. So we are in Prince Edward Island. in Canada because Ryan is done shooting haunt.

I feel like my wife and I joke. He's our son that we never had. I feel like he's been around forever. It's been about two months with a short break where he went home to the U.S. Yes. But we're in Prince Edward Island because filming ended a little early.

So I thought, and my wife's from Prince Edward Island and I know it well, I said, there's no way you can come to Atlanta, Canada. We just stay home. We're just going to sit around and eat pizza all day and watch wrestling. Yeah. Let's go to PEEI and do stuff. And what would we get on the first night?

Pizza. Yeah. There was no wrestling gone. Otherwise, we would have been doing that. So we're in Prince Edward Island. Charlottown, Prince Edward Island. This isn't Swerve's House or his or mine. It's an Airbnb.

Lovely. Very lovely. Yeah, I'm loving it. I'm loving it. Shout out to Dinos. Dino's pizza. Thank you. All the places we've been,

the P.E.I Preserve Company today for potato pie, which is one of my favorite things. Incredible. Delicious. Yeah, guys, if you can imagine, like, scatlet potatoes with, like, literally 100 layers smothered in cheddar cheese. Chote cheese, bacon strips on top, and a maple sauce with a slight tinge of sour cream. Very slight.

Yeah, it's delicious. Yep. And gained another 10 pounds. Thank you, Paul. And then we went to the Canadian Potato Museum in O'Leary Prince Edward Island, which is lovely. I've been there before. I've done it for a TV show about museums I did. And Ryan, he's got his...

I've got some images I'm going to show you guys, but before I do that... I give you a thank you for me. They give you a thank you sticker on your way out, which I absolutely adore and will keep. 100% Canadian. We're always thanking everybody. I know. And normally I would be wearing a baseball hat, whatever team or something, because I carefully curate my image. But tonight, Bogside Brewery in Montague, P.E.I, shout out to them because we went there last night and picked up some fine Canadian ale.

So I've got a light logger because I'm hopped up on pain meds. So I might take a sip. I'm going with the redhead Irish red ale tonight as well. And the most interesting one, there's actually we have an American pale ale and a blonde, but there's actually one called the African Queen. We have no idea what that. Yeah, it's like 6.9% alcohol.

We have no idea what the African Queen is. I don't know what it is. It's a mystery. We had to fill out the six-pack. So there you go. And I'm hijacking your show. Further shout out to the maroon pig, not a space ale.

You know what that is? But it's a, it's a bakery in Georgetown, P.EI. I've given Ryan the royal tour of P.E.I. The last few days. And this is, he won't be eating it because he hates coconut. But it's a coconut square that the coconut cream square. It's delicious. He's already had whatever you, you had cookies and things.

But you know what I have, Paul? What do you have? Oh, he can trump me. Guys, potato fudge. It's true. This fudge is literally, oh, yep, Suzanne is like, oh, give me some of that. Yeah. I have potato fudge, and I thought it'd be fun.

if I tried it live here for the very first time. You know what? Because I know potato fudge is very tasty and I want you to begin the interview, like, you know, hit something that's tasty and then go right into it. So don't eat it just yet. Wait. Because first I'd like you to remember the bitter taste of defeat because I did go mini golfing. I took Ryan to my favorite mini golf course, which is a river of adventure mini golf up in Cavendish.

I had to look to see what it is. My favorite. You probably can't see what the scores are. is probably best. He was close. He kept it tight. Ryan was seven over par and I came in at one underpar. Now, to be fair, it was my home course. I played it many times over the years. He had trouble with the swinging log that kept kicking his ball back. And so that really, he took a hit on that one. And he didn't close out well, except for the final hole. The final hole is, it's kind of a simple hole, but there's all these giant potatoes that surround the hole. And it's very hard. It's par three.

he aced it didn't help him in you know the mono e mono but he aced the final hole it's not how you start it's how you finish exactly yeah and you really taught me that the whole time back i'm like oh i did so bad that that log really he's like right you got a hole in one on the last hole like yeah yeah got think of the positives those are these two together it's because i won the other 17 holes i had to give you something exactly that was fun man and then the highlight i think at the uh the mini golf here we have to show this guy is the big blue lobster. Yeah.

What is this? What is this? What's going on here? It's the big blue lobster. Yeah. It's your fault. You attacked it with your putter. That's the problem.

It's bad karma man when you go. The lobster isn't even part of the court. Well, he's part of the course. Yeah. But he doesn't interfere in, he's not part of any hole. He's just ornamental, really. And he's there to provide luck and good fortune. Yeah.

I paid my respects. You took your putter and started poking the thing while I was admittedly taking pictures of it. And it was down. you were within two strokes and you finished seven back. So I think... I think that had something to do with it. You got to be careful with the blue lobster. You got to be careful.

Don't poke the bear. In this case, don't poke the... Giant blue lobster. Blue lobster. Yeah. I have two more photos to share before we get to the core of what this episode will be about. Please don't share that.

He's going to frame it. He's going to frame it. Totally frame it. Totally frame it. Rematch. I'm calling a rematch next time. You can call a match. Absolutely.

So at the potato museum. Now, it was awesome. We got to see a room that you had, you've been to this museum before. Yeah, I used to do a show called Maritime Museums, and I go to museums in maritime provinces, and I'm an historian by training. And, you know, we would profile the museum and see cool things and all that sort of stuff. And I did the Canadian Potato Museum, Season 3, and it's awesome. And they have a great restaurant, too.

It's like everything potato, everything is made with potatoes. So I had potato sandwiches with potato soup and poutine, made with potatoes, obviously. And I just had potatoes coming out of my ear. It was like Homer Simpson, even on camera. But there's a room that a big, big room that we didn't do. And I kind of forgotten about it. I don't know why we didn't do it. I think it was closed at the time for some reason.

And it's the room of farm machinery. And so it's just full of great, amazing, could kill you farm machinery. Huge tractors. Thresherers, whatever. Thrasher. Potato sorters and stuff. Great. So we got in there today and we had some fun.

That's fun. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, they showed the history of potatoes throughout literally the centuries from like, you know, when they first were kind of discovered and what with each country, like how they would pick them, how they would plant them, all that good stuff. That was pretty cool. But the room. Like there's a detail. I did not know this. Oh, yeah. I didn't even see before. So the Irish potato. The Irish potato famine is kind of famous. I think most of you probably know it. The Irish then la the Irish flage. over here because they were starving because potatoes blight the blight came from north america and so the blight comes from north america goes to europe eventually winds up in ireland and chases the iran the irish out basically because they and they come to at least in atlanticana and what do they wind up doing a lot of them wound up farming potatoes so it's just like the circle of potato

life ah the circle of patina oh sorry sorry no i don't don't i think that's coffee Is that the Lion King? Yes. Worst musical I've ever seen. What? Come on. It's not bad. It's just, it's basically the film, but a musical, all the rest of the musicals are just musicals.

So you clearly have not seen Starlight Express then? I have not. I didn't see Spider-Man for the two days of rent. Oh. Or whatever it was. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's not mention that one.

No. So you, you, but you have the greatest picture ever taken of you, I think. I think so. Ever. Guys, this is. This is moving. This is just going to. This is inspiration.

Now, as many of us know, potatoes have kind of a, they have a long shelf life, but at the same time, it's very easy for them to become dangerous. And, uh, they have many enemies. They do. Like rabbits. They, you know, they have many enemies. Didn't it literally say enemies? It did. Yes.

Okay. Okay. And potatoes die in many different ways or they contract certain diseases, as it were. And they had a room in this museum that stopped me in my tracks and made me fall to my knee and just give thanks. So moving. And memorialize these potatoes in one very specific way. After you had murdered several by eating your potato pie. For the last five days, I'd say.

So you guys, I don't know how else I say it. potato coffins yeah potato coffin it looks like we're in like a war memory i know each each one of those contains a potato like there's one for potato war it's one that has slugs

in them and contains a potato that was infected or attacked by whatever bug you have there you go that one i don't remember what that is but it looks terror kind of looks like a chocolate chip muffin actually it looks kind of good but it's some form of blight or whatever and uh yeah no it's terrifying that these poor potatoes you know Are they rest in peace? Rest in potato, RIP.

Rest, the true RIP. Exactly. No, I mean, yeah, we saw potatoes that had slugs in them. Beetles, slugs. It was the grossest thing I've ever seen. The worst is the potato wart because the wart like a human grows out of the potato. The thing is you can still eat it. I remember when I was there, the people said, yeah, you could eat it.

We would just never sell it or even give it away because it looks disgusting. Right. And it does, in fact, look disgusting. Yeah. But if it hits a field or even an area, boom, you can wipe out the entire, my great uncles were potato farmers in New Brunswick, or sorry, Maine. You can wipe out your entire year's crop and ruin your business and destroy your family and your life.

So you have to constant vigilance on potato diseases. You know, that's a good point. You know, we're laughing because it's a potato museum. It sounds insane. But, I mean, this is an industry. This is a literally a piece of food that we've been eating since like the dark. of time. Or Friday for us.

Yeah. Exactly. Everything's been Friday or potatoes. Yeah. It's all potatoes. And this is how a lot of people make their living. So, um, true respect. Especially on PEI.

It's one of the major potato growing areas in Canada, along with New Brunswick. Um, and I think maybe Manitoba. Yeah. Who cares about Western Canada? Sorry. Sorry, Manitou. Their potatoes suck. Atlantic Canadian potatoes are awesome.

All the way. Yeah. All the way. Um, awesome. I think that's all we have to share from our. sort of adventures so far. But I do want to say hello to everyone in the chat. We're having a good time tonight, guys. We're going to be doing a special sort of conversation with Paul. As we did last, this is going to become our new tradition. Every time I leave Nova Scotia and

or P-E-I, which never call the two one another. I've made that mistake greatly. Yes, Prince Edward Island is not Nova Scotia. Separate province. Yeah. For all the one people out there who thought that. So yeah, I am so bad at geography. Hello, guys. Welcome. Welcome to all our regulars. Welcome to anyone new who is watching tonight. We're very happy to have you here, 135 of you watching right now. So thank you. Thank you. We are going to be breaking down tonight. Paul Kimball's top five UFO people that he misses the most. Now, for those of you who may not be familiar with Paul's work, let's catch him up a little bit. Maybe how, you know, I got to know you as a UFO researcher, eventually a

ghost hunter, and now, literally, my boss. Cool. I suck. There, I'll just summarize what you follow. The end. And scroll. I began my career making films about UFOs, although not intentionally. I've made films about classical music, jazz, music, pro wrestling, God knows what else I did. But I made some about UFOs, and those were the ones people used to introduce me as, hey, you're the UFO filmmaker. And I go, no, that's James Fox. It's not me.

It's just one of the things I do. And I haven't done it since 2009. Stan Friedman was my uncle, so the first film I made was about Uncle Stan. It was a biography of him for Canadian television and New Zealand television. Weirdly enough. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then a couple of hours.

and then I finished off, best evidence, top 10 UFO cases, was the last one I did. And then I moved into feature films and ghosts and other stuff. And now I still do ghosts. And we produce,

or I produced like five other series about things from food to all sorts of stuff. Museums. Yeah, you've done it all. You really have done it all. Stand up comedy. Yeah.

Yep. And we actually, guys, if you subscribe to the Somewhere in the Ring podcast on YouTube, we have Paul's wrestling documentary on the channel. So you can go watch it there right now. And then it was also on CBC, right? Many years ago, don't hold that.

I still enjoy that doc. It thinks a lot of fun, but it's a half-hour doc that I didn't direct it. I just produced it and sort of co-wrote it edited it. A night at the opera. A night at the opera, night spelled NITE. Yeah. So very small town wrestlers in Nova Scotia. Wrestling being one of the interests that we share.

Absolutely. Yeah. UFOs in wrestling. UFOs, wrestling. And now potatoes. And potatoes. Yeah. Yeah.

And music. The universal language of love. Yeah. Yeah, music because he's been listening to my playlist. Because I'm a terrible driver. It's like, if I'm driving, you're listening to what I want to listen to. Paul's wife said, poor Ryan, stuck in the car with Paul for hours on and listening. Are you familiar with the hoodoo gurus?

Well, you're about to be. I'm about to be. I've found a lot of good music for me for sure. So I've got to thank you for that. But yes. So tonight, you know, how do I put this lately UFOs are very dumb right now

is that a would you say that I thought we were saving that for the Patreon after oh I mean well we'll get there we'll get there um yeah euphology ebbs and flows there was a better there was a better time I'm like Obi-Wan you know blasters uncivilized weapon for an uncivilized time

I remember a better time if euphology which certainly wasn't perfect from the late 1990s through basically to when I left. That's just a coincidence. 2009, 2010, even the early knots or tens, until about a decade ago. Yeah, where there were just the vets, the old school was still around.

Yeah. And those guys were not only fun guys, serious guys, but most of them were fun too. And they had a real interest in it, But they also had broader interest. So you could sit down and talk about any of the people that we'll talk about here. You know, you can talk about baseball or soccer or politics or music or religion or whatever.

You want food. And as I did with Stan, like all of those things, people said, you and Stan, you must argue a lot about UFOs. No, we hardly ever talk about UFOs. We talk about baseball. He was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, you know, food and travel and politics. and hardly ever talked about UFOs. Because he had a very broad range of interest. UFOs is what he did.

But his life was not defined by UFOs, despite the fact that people seem to think it was. So, you know, today it seems like there's a lot of people whose lives do seem to be defined by UFOs, not in a good way. And frankly, I think that social media has changed that maybe more than the people. So it's led to the rise of a UFO Twitter, hashtag UFO Twitter. not all bad, but that was not there in the good old days. And we'll, you know, I'm going to say the good old days.

One of the folks will talk about his name is Arrow Bruce Knapp. And we'll get into what the good old days were like because he, he ran a UFO email list that we'll talk about. So the two people I won't talk about, Stan much, he might drift in. But these are two people that, like, obviously I miss them more than anyone. Stan was my uncle. And Mack Tonys, who passed away in 2009. one of my dearest friends. So, you know, shout out to them, but like I could go on for three hours about both of them individually.

So that would be a six-hour show. So highlight some of the other people, maybe you didn't even know a couple of them. They were before your time that I got to meet on my euphological journey who were cool cats, good guys. In some cases, had really interesting backgrounds as Stan did. Stan was a, you know, nuclear physicist before UFO guy. And he worked in the cat skills at comedy clubs as a server, not a comedian. But he learned a lot about his comedy, which was actually, by the time he passed away, gotten pretty stale.

But if people recognized it said, this sounds like something out of the cat skills in the 50s, yeah, because when Stan was a student there, he would be there, you know, waiting and working there and listening to the primarily, I think he, as he said to me, Jewish comedians who work the cat skills. And that style of humor, very Don Ricklesy, that kind of stuff. And so when you get silly effort to investigate or apologists, euthologists, or all that stuff that Stan would say became famous for saying, a lot of that came from his background working there, listening to those comedians in the 1950s. That's so cool. So yeah, they all had, all these guys had interesting backstories, things that they did, like Jim Mosley will pop up. He was a grave robber in Peru, allegedly.

Or, you know, collector of antiquities. Allegedly, yeah. I think his book, shockingly close to the truth, actually. as grave robbers. The cover. Yeah. So they all had very interesting lives and they led very full lives. And they didn't spend all their time on Twitter, which they didn't have at the time,

most of them, talking about UFOs. So we'll talk about some of those guys. I think that's what we're doing. Absolutely. Yeah. And like this isn't going to be a UFO bashing. Nope. That's the extent of the bashing right there.

That's the Patreon. Yeah. We're going to, we'll tease it now. We will be doing the antithesis of this episode, guys. Today's about praising. I will answer one question that just popped up. No, I'm never putting on wrestling tights and getting in the ring. When I filmed that documentary, a wrestler, you know, kind of talking, he's going, yeah, Mr. Director, you know, if I hit you, like it's, yeah, it's scripted.

But if I hit you, you're going to know you're going to hit, I'm going to hit you. But you're going to know. And I said, look, I'm a fan, dude. I get it. I know. And he said, would you like to see what it feels like? And I said, not really, but I'm here. Sure.

Why not? And I stood up. and his name was Quinson Valentino. His real name is Dave Barry. And he whacked me and down to my knees like that. And I don't think he gave me a full whack. He told me it was going to be a half whack. I think it was more like a six-tenths whack.

It was just like the breath leaves you and everything. I said, I don't know how you guys do this. All soul left his body. My soul left my body briefly. You know, so the answer to that question is no, I am not ever getting in a wrestling ring. Unless in the super chat guys, $50 super chats and above

Paul. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. $50 million. Dr. Eiffel over here. That's $50 million. Or we blow up the moon. I will do. I'll do five minutes with who's the worst wrestler. He's likely to hit. Kill me.

Brett Hart. He always took pride in never hurting anyone. That's true. I would do it with a Brett Hart gunned wrestler. That's fair. Daniel Brian? No chance. I've seen John Moxley. No, I've seen the chest. No, thank you. Robby. Yeah. Yeah. Gunther, not happening.

Goonther. No. Okay. Well, I wouldn't be doing my job, guys, on YouTube, if I didn't say the super chat is open. If you do want to help us out, support our work here and our endeavors. It's always free to consume. It's not free to create. So that's open, PayPal, all that stuff, if you want to help us monetarily. We completely understand if you can't do that. Simply like the video, share it, do all that good stuff. Subscribe if you're not. Thank you.

enough of that. I won't be be begging you for money anymore. Wow, we get some people on Twitch tonight. That's pretty cool. I rarely get Twitch watchers. The hell is Twitch. Twitch, it's another streaming service. Okay.

I thought it was a game thing. The kids use it. The kids use it. I don't know. Yeah, I'm lit, man. Oh, we got it. When this show is over, I got a dip. Sorry, it's a, I just taught Paul what dip is.

So that's where we're at. Twitch and Twitter Watchers. We see you. Yes, we do. Special hello to Suzanne as well. Of course, our incredible moderator is with us all of tonight, guys. So be sure to put your questions in there. For me or Paul, your comments, we'll be sure to highlight them in the super chat.

I'm not doing a match with Nia Jax. No. It's not happening. No. Oh, we got some wrestling fans to that. Wrestling fans. No. I love it.

What is dip repentant man says? It's basically, you know, when you dip out of a situation as smoothly as, possible kind of what some people call you got a dip. We might be dipping tonight after the Patreon episode. We'll see if we're ever allowed back into ephology but that's for our Patreon subscribers. So Paul, let's get to it. We're in 3D. If you rock for it, you have no syncopation. No, you have to go up

and I'll go back. I'll go back. Here we go. Okay. Nope. God, right. I have no rhythm. Oh my God. This is why I'm not a musician. Oh, God. I need to pour this beer. Fine. And while I pour this beer, let's start with the top five, Paul. Who do we have for number five that you miss? Oh, yeah, these don't come in any order. Like, hey, I miss you, but I miss these four people more. Right. These people are dead, so they maybe wouldn't know unless they're ghosts, ghosts. That's a different show. That's a different. So they're not in any particular order, but I just, I haven't written down here. So the first guy would be a guy named Stuart Miller. And many of you are probably going,

Stuart Miller. Who the heck is Stuart Miller? Passedway in 2011, died in a motorcycle accident, actually, as I recall. And he was a guy from just outside Manchester in the United Kingdom, a place called Alteringham.

And he had several claims to fame, if you will. One was he published a longtime zine called UFO Review in the 2000s. I think he might have published it even before I get into Eapology, so maybe the 90s. Which was kind of, you can subscribe. It was free. I don't know. It was usually like 80 pages long or whatever. It was online. So you would get this PDF once a month or whatever. And didn't make any money off it. Might have sold a few ads, maybe. And he would do things like he interviewed me once. And then he interviewed, you know, my arch enemy in euphology at the time. Guy named Alfred Lemberg, who spent a lot of his time talking about me, I think. And Alfred and I became friends after that. But Stuart, but he also interviewed all. Who's who? You're in euphology. You, Stuart was probably talking about. talking to you, but then he'd have articles about different things, sometimes by contributors.

He had a great, he had a very British sense of humor. So as they would say, take the piss out of not only uphology, but euphologists on a semi-regular basis. Really, just a really good guy. Nick Redfern, I was filming Best Evidence, not 2009, Best Evidence Top 10 UFO sightings. And we were there in 2006 filming the Randerson Forest case. And Stuart asked me, to speak at a conference he was giving in Alteringham. And so Nick Redfern was there, too, my friend Nick, my DOP, and Finley Muir. And so Stewart let us stay at his very large and nice house in suburban

Alteringham. And had a great time. There's a picture somewhere in the internet. Nick posted that I took it of Stuart and Nick just sitting on his back patio having a beer, I think after the conference. If Stewart looks very sad, it's because only about 18 people showed up at the conference. He'd rented this whole hall and everything. Unfortunately, he had set it up on a day when England's national football team was playing.

I'm not sure if it was the World Cup, the Euros, or a really important match against an arch enemy like Germany. But it was a really big game. The entire country was watching it. And so nobody's going to a UFO conference. And I remember walking back to the bar, Stuart was standing by the bar. He just had a pint. And I said, geez, stupid. Tough, tough, like it's not been many people.

here and he said, ah, there's enough. It's your turn to go do your lecture. I said, man, you think this is bad. It'll my buzzkill, which was sort of a, you know, contact these were terrible lecture since revised my opinion. So it was kind of a bit of a downer. It's poking at euphology.

He said, no, you go do you, man. Like, that's what you're here for. And he just did water off a duck's back. And then we went back to his house. He pulled out the beer and we just sat there. Had a, oh, no, we had a four hour long check. while there. So this is going to tie together. Stuart was also a regular contributor. He, by the way, he then went on to

found a magazine. Stuart had terrible timing called Alien Worlds. Probably the best magazine ever put together about UFOs. Screw you, UFO magazine. Nothing against it. But this thing was glossy. Just the look of it was amazing. A great cover artwork. Some really good contributors. I was one of them that maybe wasn't as good. I think one of the things I did was my top seven euphological Wonders of the World sort of thing. So he was a regular contributor on a radio show out of Canada hosted by a guy named Aero Bruce Knapp, who is also on my list. So slightly rolling into this.

And Aero Bruce Knapp had a show called Strange Days Indeed out of Toronto. And he would interview, like Stewart did, you know, kind of everybody. So Jerry Clark on one week, Kevin Randall, Stan Friedman, Paul Kimball, Nick Redfern, whatever. And yes, they were both British. Errol was British. Stewart still lived there, but Errol had long since moved to Canada many, many years before. And so Nick Redfern, I'm there with these three Brits. Stuart Miller, Nick Redfern and I, who were all buzzed, baked, whatever you want to.

You know, we were happy. We were happy. And Errol back in Canada in his studio river going, you guys seem really happy. And how'd the conference go? It went great, I would say. And, you know, trying to make it look good for. Stewart and said, oh, it's terrible. Nobody showed up.

I was terrible. Oh, my God. I lost a lot of money today. I'm trying to help you, man. I'm trying to put you over. And Nick, with his Birmingham accent, I can't do Nick in his accent. But we just had a lot of fun. And we kept making fun of Stuart, Nick and I, while we were in his house.

And a couple of times he walked out. He actually got a little angry at once, I think. But he came back in, and he just brought more beer. And eventually we stopped because he kept bringing the beer. So, yeah, it was a great time. That's the kind of guy he was. He was super nice guy. So UFO review, I think you can find it online. If you Google UFO review, you should be able to find them or some of them, I think.

Alien Worlds, not so much. It only ran for about 80 issues and then. No, not a good. He said, I picked the worst possible time to start a new print magazine because the internet was just taking off and everything was going online. It's like, I lost a point. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough.

Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay.

Hilton, for the stay. Hey, to be fair, open my mind. did a print magazine after that too. And yeah, that didn't last long either. He was just a super nice guy. I'm glad I got to meet him, but also I talked to him a lot over the years. And the thing I liked most about him was a sense of humor, which is probably true of most of the people I'm going to mention here.

But Stuart had a very English sense of humor. And so he's quite missed. Yeah. That's, you know, and that's what I find. That's what I love about this. People who could still have fun could, like, be okay with 18 people showing up at a conference. Nowadays, it's like, unless you have contact in the desert numbers, we're talking thousands of people show up. The organizers are like, this was a failure or this or that.

Like, we didn't make a profit. Like, did you think anyone made a profit that day? No, absolutely. What? It's Stewart's conference. Only the bartender. Yeah. Because Stewart had a couple of pines.

Yeah. No, nobody made a profit. Nobody made it a profit. Absolutely not. And the irony is I held a conference not long after that. I think it was 2008, the New Frontiers Symposium, and about 40 people showed up. And it cost me even more to rent that hall, St. Mary's University. And Stuart asked for a report. I think Nick wrote the report for UFO review. And Stewart sent me a note. And he said, yeah, I heard you had a pretty good crowd. And I said, about 40 people. And he said, well, that's twice as many as I had. I said, yes, but the cost was three times as much as you paid, Stuart. And he said, what have we learned from this, Paul? And I said, well, I think we both learned no more UFO conferences. Yet you did. I did. Continue to do conferences.

Only one. And at that, I didn't care. I didn't charge for that one. Like I literally brought you guys up and said, hey, folks, it's a free conference. Come on down if you want to hear. Micah, was it Micah, was Micah there? Walter Bosley, Walter Bosley, Greg Bishop, Tim in all, Stan Friedman. Yep.

And me and Holly Stevens. You and Holly. doing a ghost thing. I think that was the lineup. Yeah, we didn't film it. You know, it doesn't exist. If you weren't there, it was like a happening. If you weren't there, it didn't happen. Exactly. But for those of us that were there, it was Stan's last lecture in, in Atlantic Canada. It was. I felt so honored to like see that. And only weeks prior to that was my first time ever interviewing him on the podcast. And I told a crazy story on, you know, on here about what happened when I interviewed your uncle.

I was naked in my closet. And yeah, that's my St. Friedman's story. I won't go any further. I'll let your imaginations take it from there. But I did interview your uncle in just Boxer briefs. Oh, I hear it. What, is that the ghost of Stan Friedman?

Boo, you never told me this? That's disturbing, but intriguing. Yeah, something tells me he would have gotten a kick out of it. Oh, he would have found it hilarious. I'm pretty sure. Stan did a few interviews in his life wearing shorts or, you know, like, you can always see me from here, right? Yeah. Because I'm wearing long underwear right now.

Like, no, we're not getting any filming of Paul underneath here. Not happening. Not happening. Again, that's for the Patreon. That's for, yes, that's later tonight. Okay, so, Stuart Miller, super good guy. Passed away 2011. You can read Nick Redford and I wrote one to Memorial Tomb.

You can find him on the internet if you Google Nick Redford, Stuart. Miller Rip. But I think he can find, still find UFO review on the internet as well. And a regular contributor to Strange Days. Indeed, which was created and run for many years by my dear friend, Errol Bruce Knapp, who passed away in 2016. So now we've rolled on. Boom. Let's do it. All right. So tell us a little bit about Arrow. He had three names. Yes, he did. Errol Bruce Knapp. I actually did a very long interview with Arrow once on a podcast. that I did for like eight episodes.

I'm like a golden retriever folks. I have no attention. Whoa, what's that over there? And his life story was very interesting. He cut his teeth doing pirate radio in the UK in the 70s. Sorry, 60s. I can never remember it's like Radio Annie, Radio Sally, whatever the boats were offshore where they would do the pirate radio

to get away from the oppressive BBC and regulations in the UK back then. You still have to pay the license fee. He was part of that. And then eventually he made his way to Kennedy. He got involved in Canadian TV. He was involved in a show called I think it was called House of Frightenstein, which is... What? I love that.

Any Canadians listening, you probably, if you're of a certain age, remembered or at least of heard of it. And he's very much into UFOs. So his big UFO claim to fame, besides being a super nice guy that got along with pretty much everyone, no feuds really for Errol, unlike. people like me, Errol, pretty easy go. And he had two things that are absolutely worth highlighting. And if you can find them and look them up,

I think they're still available on the internet somehow, some way. One was the UFO updates email list. Now, not to knock modern euphology with UFO Twitter and all that. It's just not talking about the people now. I'm talking about the mechanism. Twitter's terrible. It's objectively terrible for trying to have a rational conversation. For one thing, it's not moderated.

and just blah. In the old days with lightsabers instead of blasters, we had email lists. And you had to get Errol's permission to join, which, as far as I know, he would never really refuse unless you were like an anti-Semite or neo-Nazi or some sort of hate monger or something or, you know, a complete whack-a-doodle. And they had some whack-and-doodles and eventually he might remove one or two of them. But Michael Sala, speaking of whack-a-doodles, was on that list. You know, anyone who was anyone from the very broad range of, Even some skeptics with a very broad range of the Michael Salas of the world, you know, the Alfred Weber's, the exopolitics types, Steve Bassett and those guys, Greer, I don't think

was ever on it. I think he was bad. To Stan Friedman, Jerry Clark, Dick Hall, you know, Kevin Randall, Carl Flock, Chris Rakowski, Bruce McAby, all those guys. Plus a whole but Mac Tonys, plus a whole me, not that I was that important as those guys, but a whole bunch of other guys too who are just fans, kind of fans, and you followed this. And so you could, sorry, there it is, you could see the email strings and it would be these back and forths. So I remember Alfred Lemberg was on, I remember having some, I guess he'd call them Flame Wars, maybe, with Alfred or occasionally Jerry Clark and I get into it over intelligent design of all things once.

Sometimes politics would see, but it was mostly UFOs. And it was, I mean, anyone who was anyone in UFOLO, was on that list with one or two exceptions who might have been banned like Greer, I think. But if you were, if you were anyone back then, you know, like Bud Hopkins,

you know, was on that list. And I don't know if John Mack was. Peter Robbins probably was. I can't remember. I don't know if people like Mac was, but certainly people who would have known Mac and supported his work would have been there.

Yeah, you were on that list. So, and Errol moderated it. and he was like a three-ring circus because it could get very contentious. And he would calm it down. Occasionally he might have to ban somebody for half a week or a month. I might have been banned once or twice. I think I quit once or twice too and a huff. And then I always came back and he said, yeah, sure, Paul, you're always welcome back.

Come on back. And the other thing he did was he hosted a radio show on Toronto, which we talked about when talking about Stuart Miller called Strange Days. Dot, dot, dot, dot. Indeed. And again, that show interviewed, you know, just about anyone. including exopolitics people. So he, you know, his co-os was a guy named Victor Vigiani, who I didn't ever really get along with because he was,

I didn't dislike him personally, but he was a big exopolitics guy. Canadian, right? Yep. It used to be a school principal, I think. Okay. And so, you know, it had a very eclectic range of opinions. And Errol never really, he believed in UFOs,

but he never threw his opinion too much in there and said, it's aliens. it's this, it's that, time travelers, whatever. He'd just say, yeah, tonight we're talking to X, and X believes that they are this, and let's get into it. And, you know, it would be kind of a freewheeling conversation, sort of like this. And he was great. He had that, oh, I'm Harold Bruce Knapp, whatever his voice, with the British accent.

And it was very sexy. He had a sexy voice. It was very, very white if he was British kind of thing. And he was just a super duper cool guy. He passed away in 2016. got to meet him in person twice in Toronto, but certainly corresponded and talked to him a lot. And euphology is sore from his passing,

I think he was 70, in his 70s, so he lived a good life. And Stewart's passing as well, both in terms of the personalities and everything, but the way they disseminated information and also brought people together. In Stewart's case, for instance, Alfred Lemberg and me. You know, we had spent years,

arguing and attacking each other. And eventually, Stuart was partially responsible for a bit of daint, where Alfred and I almost came to say, yeah, you're okay. We just have different points of view. Errol was like that, too. Errol was very much a uniter, not a divider, as George Bush would say. But he met it, and he lived it. And so having guys like that, now, and again, I don't want to trash modern euphology, although

I will, UFO Twitter is just as a mechanism, is, is a, just not useful for that. Twitter encourages the worst impulses, and it's not moderated, and moderation can be a good thing. And there are no rules, really, now that stupid Lex Luthor took over. And so, you know, I'm not, like, I, UFO Twitter and I, I just don't do it. I won't do it. But UFO updates, it was not perfect, but that was a pretty good way to have a conversation amongst the bigsters. And also, you can. You can. could get in on it too, even though maybe you weren't a UFO researcher or a bigster or whatever, you could talk to these guys.

And UFO Twitter, I don't see a lot of the real UFO researchers don't do a lot of Twitter stuff. A lot of the UFO posers and a lot of the UFO entertainment industry guys do. But in UFO updates, it was actually, like the real researchers were there. And they'd be talking cases like Jerry Clark might say, oh, what about this? and, you know, Stan Friedman would weigh in. And they would be arguing 20 years later about majestic 12, too. So they were still going at it. But yeah, it was a good thing and it's missed.

I miss it. Yeah. I miss it. Well, you know, there's this allusion to Paul of like, I've gotten into arguments on UFO Twitter with other pretty well-known, I guess you would call them UFO celebrities or people who are very visible as they go through puberty. People who are very visible in the UFO space. I've gotten into horrible arguments on Twitter that I always regret because I find myself saying things in the heat of the moment that

I wish I hadn't. I forget that it's about UFOs and it becomes more of an attack on an individual rather than the discussion that should be had, which is, again, UFOs. And I will often reach out to these people and make up and we have, you know, good conversations after that. So, you know, someone who does come from sort of the generation of UFO Twitter, I agree with 99.9% of what you're saying. But I do still think there are some places, some corners of UFO Twitter that do have good, you know, a lot of these people now do, what do they call them, Twitter spaces where you kind of, it's almost like a call-in audio meeting group where you can have really good discussions or really bad discussions on UFOs. But everyone gets a voice. It's a lot more democratic than like, you know,

me going on a TV show or this person over there going on a TV show and speaking for euphology, which is always a very, it's something I've always found uncomfortable of like going on television and talking about UFOs and you become like a face of the community. I see you on ancient aliens just like a week ago? Yes, he did. Yes, I did. And I sent a screen capture to picture and said it to you too. But that's my point.

Like when I go on a show like that, I'm always terrified of like what people will think. And when ancient aliens first reached out to me to be on, I struggled. I, you know, I told my partner, like, I don't think I want to do this. I don't know how I'm going to be perceived in the North. You are so talking yourself off haunted right now. You're right. Those communities just like that. You're right.

UFO updates was not perfect. And that's why occasionally Arrow would get rid of some people. And it could get personal. But he was there to tone it down. And UFO Twitter, despite not being my favorite thing, it's not evil. Twitter is not evil. I still use Twitter. It's just I find it less civilized.

But not beyond. Perfect way to put it. But it's like a blaster. It still kills people. But a lightsaber is a more civilized way to do it, I guess. Star Wars, Deep Star Wars. Deep Star Wars. Actually, it's not that deep.

That's surface star ones. I see a question right here. We have starred. I don't know if we want to do it now or wait for the Patreon. Juan Manuel asks. Paul, what is your view on Richard Doty? Do you think that's inappropriate time to talk about that, or should we wait? Just as you mentioned that, my toothache started again.

So that's probably my answer. Richard Doty, what were we saying in the car? I was talking about modern, more modern like today. euphology and all these ex-military guys, Lou Elizondo, I'll pick on him. And somewhere, like, they're going in front of Congress, they're making bank, you know, they're writing books and a podcast, all this stuff. And somewhere, Doty, who I have no use for whatsoever, is sitting there going, hey, what about me? Like, this is, this is bullshit. Like, how come I was 40 years too early? Because, you know, he's, he, that's who he was.

He was an AFOSI guy who, and he said, all I had was Paul Benowitz. And he was legitimately crazy. You're actually reaching out to thousands and potentially even millions of people if you're on the Joe Rogan show or something. Like, where was Joe Rogan when I was there? So somewhere I secretly think Rick Doty is sitting in his, wherever he lives, his trailer, I don't know. And going, oh, I totally missed it, man. And yet. I will push back just a little bit.

I have seen that man in the last couple years headline UFO consequences. True, which is frightening. Yeah. What is that? Yeah. I gave my good buddy, Chrissy Newton some flack because I'm like, she interviewed Richard Doty.

And I was like, why are you doing this? Why are you giving this man a platform? And to her credit, it is one of the best interviews I have ever seen with a UFO personality. Because she took him to task. She asked him the questions that most conference organizers, most people who would have him on their show, would not ask him. And I really appreciated that.

And I thought she did a fantastic job. But, you know, she said, like, what you did was not only wrong, but possibly illegal. And, you know, kind of implicated him. And he argued, no, it wasn't. I was just doing my duty. Just how many times have we heard that, you know? After Nuremberg, just obeying orders isn't it a defense for committed crime? folks. And even if he didn't commit a crime, he, you know, worked to drive Paul Benowitz

even nuttier than he was. And fraud after fraud after fraud. I know my friend, my good friend, Greg Bishop, I don't know if he likes Rick Doty, but, you know, he's interested in him from the, you know, like what was going on. What, you know, Doty was involved in stuff. I couldn't. Doty was a penny ante operator out for himself. And I'm convinced was involved in the creation of the majestic 12 documents, which caused a lot of grief to my uncle. Although my uncle wouldn't have phrased it that way, he would have said to this dying day. They're real, the original ones. But the vast majority of euphology even would go, no.

You got that one wrong, Stan. But Doty, not a good guy. That's just how I'd phrase it with Doty. But a guy who, if he was around now, like really around, like he was, you know, 30 years younger or something. you know, would probably be on the circuit even more, you know, testifying in front of Nancy Mays or Tim Burchett or whatever crazy Republican congressperson. It's like Paulina. Paulina.

Paulina. Paulina. I don't know. I have no idea. Anyways. I don't know. There's something about them there. You have a fool.

We've got to get to the bottom of this. But first, I got to vote for Robert Kennedy is a secretary of whatever he is, HHS, whatever. So he can get rid of that their polio vaccine. That's my Tim Burchett impression. That was pretty good. They're demons. Daggommet. He's not the Senate, so he wouldn't have voted to confirm, but he was if he was in the Senate.

That is fair. So that's my answer on Rick Doty. That's good. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the question, Juan Manuel. We do appreciate that. He does have another question.

We'll maybe get back to that in a little bit here. Let's move on to your next individual. And Suzanne said, please hit that like button. and yes, guys, if you can, take one moment, just smash that like button. Smash that like button. Now I sound like a YouTuber, a real YouTuber. Got a dip.

Got a dip, y'all. This live stream is lit. We're lighting it up. It's lit. We're going to party like it's 2008. Who would have been, hey now, you're an all-star. Get your game on.

That sounds like a song from that time period. Probably. Anyways. Chumba Wamba. Chumbamber. Tuffed up in. Not on the car's playlist, but maybe. Next up, I'm just going to, yeah, sure, why not?

I'll just go on the list I wrote them down. Carl Flot. Oh, okay. So again, interesting background, former CIA agent. Well, not CIA agent. He wasn't assassinating people in Hungary or whatever during the Cold War. But he worked for the CIA, CIA operative or whatever you want to call them. Was it in the Marine Corps.

was a congressional staffer and a whole bunch of other, a lot of governments work that he'd done. I think he was the assistant, Americans, I always get this confused. Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense or Deputy Assistant Secretary, I don't know, he's one of those. Like on the flow chart, he was four or five people down. I think for operational weapons testing during the Star Wars era

under Reagan or era under Reagan, I think. Check his Wikipedia page. I think I have that right. But yeah, he was tied in. And so was his wife. she was tied into government too. So Carl also, though, had a very longstanding interest in the UFO phenomenon. And he was very skeptical.

But unlike skeptics, like James Randy or whatever, Carl actually believed that UFOs, space aliens from Zeta reticulize, so he would go further than I would, had actually visited Earth. And he just didn't think they were visiting anymore, which I actually thought, well, okay, if I'm going to buy the space alien thing, I like this one, because it matches how we did things. you know the english would send an ex or the portuguese would send explorers out and captain cook would land on an island in the pacific oh hello coconuts excellent the king says his regards to this king and blah blah blah all right bye and you know it sail off

and the people on the island would be like oh that was interesting that just happened and they wouldn't you know they might take one or two of the natives off the island like would you like to come back and meet ah king they'd never be returned and so there the very first alien abduction where european explorers politely, sometimes not politely, asking, would you like to come meet the king? Sure. And they'd wind up in London or whatever. But those people on those islands might go years,

decades, without ever seeing a European again, especially in the Pacific. So that was kind of where Carl was coming from, that the aliens fly around, oh, check in on Earth. Take a couple of people. He bought the alien abduction thing. Maybe we abduct a few people. Put them back.

Okay, we got all we need to know from Earth. no threat and interesting species but primitive off we go and never returned and he thought that it happened mostly in the 50s and maybe into the 60s but by the end of the 60s had stopped and I thought that intellectually was a valid way of looking at things but beyond that he just knew a lot about a lot and all sorts of interesting like I like Carl not everybody in euphology did they didn't trust him might be that CIA thing and all the other government ties and stuff too he was a debunker in a good way of the cattle mutilation phenomenon which i debunk as well i made a film about the cattle mutilation phenomenon i have people say no never any scientific inquiries into yes it is you go into the canadian

veterinary journal and there it is they did in partnership with a i think it was Wyoming the university of wyoming they looked into it seriously and said here's what it is and if linda moulton how is watching she goes oh no none of that's true and it's like well okay you can say no all you want, but don't say that this wasn't looked into by science. So Carl wrote a book, basically, or would write articles about debunking cattle mutilations. So he took a very wide interest in field. And he could be very prickly to folks, but he was a really interesting cat, died way too soon. I think it was multiple sclerosis that did him in in 2006. He was diagnosed a year or two before that and went pretty quickly.

But he was a good guy. He appeared in two, three of my films. Yeah, at least two. He was in Stan and T. Freeman is real. As Kevin Randall played the other one, as the guys who would criticize Stan. Carl more than like Kevin was a rival with Stan, the whole Roswell thing.

Carl was more a critic. And he liked Stan. I would see them at conferences and they got look great. But he said, Majestic 12, Stan bought it and he shouldn't have, and that was his waterloo. And that's where he and Euphology went this way. Roswell, same kind of thing. But Carl was, uphology needs more people like Carl. I don't see as many of those people around anymore. He has, unlike some of the people who claim to have intelligence

connections today, Carl really had them. And, you know, he used them to help further his research. And he had been at, if not the highest levels of government, pretty close. And so I would ask him, Carl, did you ever see anything about UFOs come across your desk? And he went, no, never. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I just never saw it. And he never once said, because I was in government, I know more of secrets or this or that or that. He just said, no, my government work had nothing to do this.

This is a personal interest. But some of my government work helps me inform how I look at these things. So the Wall Street Journal put out an article, I think last week or two articles. I was going to ask you about that. And said, hey, look, and I tend to favor this for the VAT, all my, all UFO cases that are otherwise unexplainable, that these are advanced weapon systems that the government has been testing, and they've been mistaken for space aliens or whatever. And Carl said something to me. That was where Carl came from in the 70s and 80s and 90s. And Carl said something

to me once, and he did draw upon his government work, but not his UFO work. He said, look, whatever the government lets you know they have is 15 years behind what they really have. So if they're showing you this, then they have this. And when they get around to showing you this, they've got this. So whatever you're seeing, if you're seeing a stealth bomber, they just didn't come up with that today. They've been testing that for years in secret. And I went, well, yeah, okay, that makes a lot of sense, Carl. So he said a lot of cases, he didn't say all, but he said a lot of cases.

That's what it is. People saying, hey, triangle objects in the late 1980s, well, what kind of area? were the Americans testing in the late 1980s that appear a few years later and, oh, look, their triangle aircraft, stealth bombers. And, you know, if you're watching this and go, Kimball's got the timeline of that wrong. I'm close enough. But the principle is the same. You know, the U2 spy plane.

There were guys in Fighter Command in the United States who were responsible for defending the country. I know I interviewed some of them, including Lieutenant Colonel Bruce Bailey, who's now passed away. He was in the RB-47 program. So not the YouTube, but the next maybe most secret spy plan they had. And he said, yeah, we would be flying back for missions. And fighter command would scramble jets to intercept us. And those guys didn't know who we were.

The YouTube pilots were like that too. There's always a risk you would get shot down by your own guys. And I asked him, well, did that ever happen? He said, I can't tell you that. But, you know, we won't admit to it. But always a risk that your own people would shoot you down because they didn't know you were up there doing whatever it was that you were doing. So if Fighter Command doesn't know that you're up there, how about your average civilian walking their dog late at night

who sees something that they can't explain? Does that explain every UFO case? Nope. But does it explain a lot of them? Yes, might it explain a lot of modern ones that are going on now? Maybe because there's drones everywhere, people. I don't know if you're not watching CNN and what's going on in Ukraine or Israel or wherever there's a war breaking out or wherever Amazon is soon to be delivering

your packages to you. Drop it off your socks. Yeah. In a drone. It's like, am I getting bombed by the Iranians or is this my order of socks? I don't know. It's one of the two. It's one of the two.

Nothing in between. Or if you're Canadian, they're the Americans bombing us. Are we getting socks? Oh, gosh, stop. Let's just, yeah. We are the peace ambassadors to show that Canada and the U.S. can get a long. Yes, for sure. When it comes to, yeah.

We spent two months reprogramming. I know. We didn't need to reprogram. I've been brainwashed. American, Americans are great. the possible exception of 40% of the vote for Trump. Anyway, so Carl was a great guy, super, just super fun guy to talk to, but he could be prickly. So I was interviewing once for, which film was that, Aztec, I think it was the Aztec 1948 doc it did. And we were in Aztec,

sorry, it's over here, we were in Aztec, New Mexico, had to drive down because Carl lived just outside Albuquerque in Flacetus. And I knew how long it was going to take. But I was in charge. The crew was not to blame. I lolly gagged. We stopped at a gas station halfway between. Might have gotten some food and stuff. I learned a valuable lesson that day.

Don't piss off a Marine guy, who also was in the CIA. Show up at Carl's place. He comes out. He comes right out. And we were like 40 minutes late. To this day, I feel bad about this. And I had just seen him a couple days before at a conference. Like, and Carl and I were friends.

And he tore a strip off me in front of my. in front of my crew, and I didn't blame them. And I was just like, as soon as I saw him, I went, I'm not going to swear on your show, but like F-bomb. Oh, I'm in it for it now. And I deserve it. My bad. And I said, look, can we still get the interview?

He said, no, not today. I've got things to do. And, you know, it's going to take you time to set up. And I had a window. And I said, okay, if you want to think this through, you know, I still would love to do the interview. And he said, I'll think about it. He sent me an email later that night. He'd calm down and, you know, he was pretty hot.

But he took me into his house after he finished chewing me out. He explained me why he was angry. I said, you have every right to be. By that, by that. I apologize. Canadian, I apologize. But he did it while standing in front of a picture of him standing with Ronald Reagan. And I'm like, shit.

Like, this guy could have me killed. Wow. I think it was, I think it was him standing with Ronald Reagan or maybe it was just a picture of Ronald Reagan signed to him. I can't remember now. And I was like, do. You know, he's got his Marine hat or something on the wall and I don't know, whatever else, laser gun or something. And I said, okay, Carl, he had rattle stakes in the yard. He's just going to kill me.

And he, we went down the next day and did the interview. It was great. He was as friendly as you could be, just like the nicest guy. And that's who he was usually, unless you pissed him off. And I learned a very valuable lesson that day as a filmmaker. I have never been late ever again in my career. That's true. You run a tight ship when it comes to being.

at a place on time, respecting the place you're at, the people who are, you know, as my wife and your sister found out at the restaurant last night, where we were early and they were 25 minutes late. And we just ordered. It's like, bring the menus. Sorry, ladies, we're eating. That's a them problem, not an us problem. Give us our fish.

Best lobster hole of my life and seafood chowder. Shout out to Finn in PEI. Grand Trakety, P.E.I. So Carl was a super guy, and euphology is, as with all of these guys. And they're all guys because the vast majority of euphology are guys. So, sorry. It's sore for his passing, too, in 2006.

But he took his diagnosis and he, like a champ, you know, no boo-hoo, no poor me. He knew what the end was going to be. And he kept going, you know, as long as he could. So I kind of, I always admired that about him, too. Fun last story about Carl Flock, because I'm droning on. When I interviewed Kevin Randall in 2001 for the Stanton Friedman film for 2000. No, it was 2001 because we flew back on September 10th, 2011, and I was coming through Boston Airport and the next day, you know, the world changed.

So in Cedar Rapids, instead of going down to Albuquerque to fly car or do Carl, I said, Carl, can we fly you to Cedar Rapids and I'll get you and Kevin at the same time? That's just cheaper, low-budget Canadian documentary. And Carl said, sure, I haven't seen Kevin in a while. It'll be great. we'll talk. So we went to breakfast with Kevin Carl, my D.O.P. Finley-Mere and I, and they were talking, and it was just all baseball, whatever, they were talking. And I said, look, we're going to go back to the hotel, and we're going to set up, I think we did Carl first. I can't remember. And we're going to do,

no, Kevin, because then he went home, Carl was staying at the hotel. And I said, I'm going to set up, you know, give us about 40 minutes. They were like, okay, no problem. And as we're walking out, I heard, I think it was Carl saying, look, now that they're gone, we can really talk. And I thought, hold on, what are they really talking about? UFOs or the fact that Carl's former Intel, Kevin was an intelligence officer in the U.S. Air Force, like, who knows what they're really talking about? But I'd like to be a fly on that wall for the next 40 minutes. And I never asked. It's just like they had their conversation and I wasn't part of it.

So, okay, that brings up something I've been meaning to ask you. You have interviewed these former intelligence guys, CIA, Navy, U.S. Canadian, everything in between. Were there ever any instances where they told you things off camera that you weren't allowed to put on camera? Anything like that? I wouldn't tell you if it was a lost cause. I don't know why I asked that question.

Unlike some people, I wouldn't actually tell you if they said, look, we're going to tell you something, but you can't. Now, I'm not trying to be coy. I'm not claiming that they did. Yeah. But that's how you lose this horse. The only, they're all dead now. The only guy whoever did was, that I could talk about, would be Bruce Bailey.

And we had turned the camera off and he's the RB-47 colonel. And he started talking about his own RB-47 case. So I was just there to talk to him about the famous 1957 RB-47 case. And as we're, you know, cameras off, tapes out, we're starting to pack up. He says, yeah, I can't do a Texas accent. He's this, he was a very nice guy. And he goes, yeah, you know, I had my own case back a little, later than that during the cube missile crashes.

That's not Texas accent, but whatever. And I went, well, and he describes the case. And I'm like, um, you ever talk about that, you know, public? Because Brad Sparks, ACE UFO researcher sent me to this guy. And even Brad didn't know about this one. And so he said, no, I've never talked about this one really publicly. I said, would you be willing to? And he sort of sat for a second.

He said, yeah, what's the worst they can do to me? Fire it up. And, okay, Finley, tape back in. We're rolling again. And that one made it into the documentary to actually help augment the fact that it wasn't just one RB-47 case. It was like a lot of the RV-47 crews, which were the top sort of one of the top spy planes at the time, were running into UFOs. They would, in his case was a little different. He said in the 57 RB-47 case, and he knew those guys.

He said these were the best crew. It was an all-star crew. They were doing a test run on the plane or whatever. Did certain things with him. He said, Nars just blew our gear out, like fried all our guys. gear and everything. And, you know, it was a different, the interaction was a bit different, but the principal was the same. And I did, so I'll give you this one. I, I did ask him at the end, because I hadn't asked him for the first RB40s, but I said, okay, we're talking about you now.

So you would have been debrief. He said, oh, absolutely. We got back to the base and there were a couple of guys there. He had a much deeper. A lot, a couple of guys there from AFOSI, whatever, and some other people we didn't know. And he said, they debrief you, and you told them, and said, yep. I said, well, okay, what would they tell you? He said, they said, you can never talk about anything like this ever again. And I said, well, what would happen if you talked about it? He said, it was the, something along the lines of you would get a one-way ticket to the northernmost base in Alaska. That's where your career would wind up.

They made it very clear. Not we're going to kill you or anything. But if you talk about this, your career is over. We're not going to get you out of the military. We're just going to send you the worst possible assignment. You know, Vietnam, here you come. Northern Alaska, or he said Northern Alaska. And I said, okay, cool.

And he said, but I'm not in the military anymore. It's been years, so I can, I'll tell you about it. Wow. We did. Yeah. Yeah, guys, if you want to learn more about the RB47 case, you did speak about it last year on your top five favorite UFO cases. Yeah.

Yeah. So you can go back in the archives and listen to that. Or Google RB47 UFO case from 1957. Or you can watch my first. film for free online top 10 UFO sightings or whatever they call best evidence and that is the number one case and it's a case i still believe is unexplained or at least unaccounted for it's fantastic yes go watch the dock guys uh we'll put a link below in a retrospect as well after we do this here um awesome we've got what do we got one more a toothache two more you got a

amazing is it bothering you the extra same towel is wearing off fear time uh two more two more Okay. Who's next? Jim Mosley. Ah, Jim. Love it. The clown jester of Uphology. Passed away in 2012.

Many, many, many, many, many years ran a zine. I guess it's a zine. Newsletter, newsletters better, called saucer smear. Was it saws or, I almost forget this. Was it saucer smear or saucer smeared? Smear. Smear, because the book was saucer smeared. Correct.

Right. So you, you couldn't subscribe. It was kind of like he would just, like he just added me. It showed up in my mailbox one day. He mailed it up. Whether you like it or not, getting saucer smeared. Couldn't pay. Like, you know, I think he took donations, love offerings.

He called them. Love off. Very 1960s. But you, you couldn't pay for it. You couldn't subscribe to it. You know, you had to, you were in the know. And like he, it was a, I think you can find most of them online. I think Tim Crawford at UFO TV or whatever bought the rights and threw up a

You have to pay, but they're there. I still have all my old copies. But Stan, everybody, if you were in, it's like being strange days, not strange days, indeed, UFO updates. Although if you were in, you were definitely on saucer smear or subscribe to it. And probably mentioned in it, too, because Mosley loved all the fighting. And he loved the culture of euphology watching. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes.

At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Stan Freeman is warring with Kevin Randall. Let's get into it. What a drama king. So it's tons of, I mean, he's great Barker's old partners in crime. So it was like tons of innuendo, rumors, and some truth. And then people like Stan and Kevin or whoever would write in and go, listen, here's the real story.

most of that way he said is true Stan's an ass but let me tell you why I think he's an ass and Kevin right back on and Stan would right back going you know like Kevin's a wonderful author of science fiction and then he you know like list and that kind of stuff that was great I loved it I loved every second of it I would devour it when he would get into the mailbox like boo and Jim would send me I don't know if he Stan said he did to a few select people maybe there's more but he would send me little recipe cards and every time I got to Saucer's Mir because he would write, hey Paul or hi Paul, you know, dear Paul or whatever. How are things?

Here's how things are in Key West because he lives in Key West. And he referred to me after my second film, I think he said, Paul Kimball is the future of euphology. Here I said, folks, so Jim was wrong. And I called, I had many phone conversations. I called him up after that. I said, Jim, don't ever say that again. I, dude, I'm just a filmmaker.

Like, I'd make a few films about UFOs, but I'm moving into a classical music suit. Shut up. I don't want to be the UFO filmmaker. ever like no that's a fate worse than death it's like the reluctant hero you're luke skywalker no i wasn't luke sky i was luke skywalker in the last jett i don't he had been a jett i didn't want to be a jett i don't be a UFO Jedi he's like you're gonna paul Kim was going to save eifalgy don't know it's it's it can't be saved like i you know it's it's just it is what it is i'm just here to document certain things and but i was doing a blog then and i was in it hot and heavy and he said this guy i like the cut of his

Jim. You know, he's Friedman's nephew, but by marriage, he'd always add that. But he has an important point of view and he doesn't agree with Stan a lot. This is great. This is not only do we have people fighting, it's family. Shakespeare. Yeah, this is like Shakespeareian. It's like Jim, Stan and I get along great. Like only in public do we sort of feud about a few things like MJ12, but like it's not really few. Okay, sure. I never once wrote in about Stan or anything. I think I wrote once and he published it. But it was. was a correspondence between me and Mosley. He was a cool cat.

And his background read-up on Jim Mosley, his book, Saucer Smeared, shockingly close to the truth. I think that's the exact title. It was written, co-written, look, it's it with Carl Flock. And it is probably the best history of euphology, not necessarily the UFO phenomenon in the 50s, 70s, maybe up to the 80s, because they were in it. Mosley was in it.

He used to long John Neville back in the days in conferences. He was part of Newfock, the National UFO Conference. And he knew everybody. And a lot of people hated him, and they still took his newsletter. And they would still write him. And the hate was with love. And Mosley was an irascible. He was a clown.

He had come from money. I think his father was an admiral. But he lived, he wasn't a playboy. He wasn't Elon Musk, stupid Lex Luther with $800 billion. dollars, but he had enough money to be comfortable for his entire life. And so that allowed him to indulge himself in the things that he liked to do. And so in the early years, that was working with Gray Barker to create myths and legends, like men in black and stuff and put that out there.

It was making the life miserable and puffing, letting the air out of people that he thought were puffed shirts who took themselves too seriously, which is really why I think he liked me. because I can't take myself seriously. I take what I do seriously, but I'm always making fun of myself. He said, look, this guy's hopeless. Like, I can't, there's nothing I can say about Kimball that's going to get under his skin.

It's just, he doesn't take himself seriously. So I like that. Cool. Whereas, I mean, Stan took himself too seriously. A lot of these, Kevin, they all took themselves a bit too seriously sometimes. And Mosley was just like, oh, it is honey to a bear or a bee or whatever. You know, he's like a Siff Lord. I feel you're hanging.

I feed off of this. Oh, my gosh. Well, we recently did an episode on the life and career of Great Barker. And I didn't know this, but in reading that biography, I learned about an incident where mostly created a fake FBI letter with the letterhead and everything. And then the FBI, like, came after him because of it. That cracked me up. I just, I loved that.

Anybody who Greg Bishop likes, I like, generally speaking, with one or two exceptions. Except for Greg Bishop, I don't like Greg, and he likes himself. No, that's not true. He's a dear friend. But he and Mosley were tight, close. You want to talk about the paracast and Gene Steinberg? We're in the paracast. Gene and Mosley went back a long time, many, many years.

And so, Mosley, if you want to listen to him, probably it is most curmudgeonly, you can go listen to the paracast, which Ryan does to help him go to sleep. As many people listen to somewhere in the skies to get to sleep. Keep talking. I'm going to open this window. It's hot in here. I just pass three folks. And you can find old episodes with Mosley David Biedney, the late David Biedney, too. But Christopher O'Brien, I think, as well.

And by the way, there are two guys that Ephology misses, Chris O'Brien, David Biedney. Yes. Not on my list, but only because it's five people. They'd be there. I like both of them, even though Biedney didn't like me at the end. I think Chris did. but there are a lot of people who I like people who were interesting. Mosley was interesting.

And I'm partly convinced he was always recording my phone calls too. I don't know. But sometimes I'd be a little careful with what I said with Jim. I don't know. But he's just a cool guy. He is really missed. Euphology desperately needs a Jim Mosley.

Oh yeah. They don't have one. I was recently, I told you this recently. Guys, when I get drunk and or under the influence of other things. I don't text people. I don't like do anything too crazy. I Amazon shop.

I'm a drunk Amazon shopper. I just told Paul about something that I drunk purchased for my girlfriend, story for another time. But I will spend hours and hours on eBay looking for old saucer smear additions, old, oh, God. Gosh, what was the one that Barker did? I literally just did an episode on it. Aaron Dolios would know.

Yeah. Oh, gosh. Flying saucer review. Boom. There we go. FSR. Shout out to Aaron, by the way. That's wonderful work.

Best UFO historian ever. Absolutely. Absolutely. But yeah, yeah. I've yet to get an issue of saucer smear because I was not on the list. I think I was a little too young to be on the list at the time. But I give anything. It was X rating.

It was, yeah. Yeah. Ryan was to his NC 17 for eapology. Before my time, my parents wouldn't let me read it, even if I could. Speaking of people recording phone calls in paranoia, the 90s were a big time for paranoia when it came to not trusting the government with UFOs. And that brings me to another question for you, Paul, from Juan Manuel X-Files. Is Paul an X-Files fan? Come on, who doesn't have a crush on Dana Scully?

Juan, I am with you on that 100%, but more importantly, Paul, were you a fan of the X-Files? I have a crush on David DeCoveby. Who does it? Fox Mulder? That's not true. I have a crush on Ewan McGregor. That is true. Ewan McGregor, if you're listening.

Ready for this one, Paul? Hello there. Hello there. Hello there. More civilized time. I love it. Better Obi-Wan Kenobi than Alliginus. I love Alliginus, amazing actor.

Ewan McGregor. Oh, perfect. Perfect. A handsome, handsome man. I wish I had his air. Yeah, no, I love the X-Files, except maybe the last season or two. And the movies. We don't talk about this. Yeah.

But the early seasons, absolutely, I've stolen more than a few X-Files ideas for Haunted over the years. Stolen, inspired by. Inspired. Just, they had one, they had one, you remember the episode where in a past life, I think Scully and Mulder were lovers in the past life, but now best friends in this life. But Mulder ran into this other girl that he fell in love with. Somehow in the Civil War was in there. There were flashbacks.

So I've used that idea in the ghost hunting show. Never specifically was just going, you know, what if we, like you and I in a different life, we're, I don't know, brothers. I have no idea. Like people, there's this group of people who maybe travel through time and come back, if you believe in reincarnation. in different versions and even maybe enemies. Like if you wanted to go back, I don't know, the Second World War,

I was an SS guy and you were a concentration campaign. I actually saw somebody speculate about that once. And that idea that, so you play every role and then you go off to wherever you go at the end. So you're good, bad, middle of the road, poor, rich, whatever. Do I believe that? No. Do I not believe it? No.

But it's one of those things that from the X-Files, I went, huh, fiction. All right. I'm going to look into this and that, you know, they took it from from actual philosophy and theories and people talk about it long before they ever did. And I said, oh, they just made a good episode of television about it. So, yeah, let's use that. And then there was the famous bog squatch episode on X-Files where Ryan and I ripped that one off. No, no, we came up with that one on our own. That is a myth in the making.

We're still working on it. We're still, we went to, like we mentioned guys earlier, the bogside brewing, Paul's got the hat on right there. bought me one as well thank you so much appreciate that um we are trying to create a myth in nova scotia and now PEI I guess too it's over here now too it's everywhere the bog squatch

it's like big foot but in a bog we're gonna see we're gonna see how far we can take this and see if we can it can eventually become the Patterson Gimlin of uh Canada so sweet yeah we'll see I just need a furry suit and I'm good to go we're good to go baby speaking of which we had a vehicle that smelled quite like a bog squash.

It did. Yeah. Actually, we know what they smell like. Okay, I'm out here. I don't know what's this. It wasn't us. We won't get into it. We don't want to call out the rental agency who gave this very smelly car to us. Absolutely don't. Yeah. Yeah. Let's just say. Although I will say my favorite starship is the USS Enterprise. So unrelated, though, to the rental car. Exactly. In anyway. Yeah. And they did us right in the end. They did. We got a love to. car. We did. We did.

Yeah, no, I'd be like the bog squatch in my suit and I'd just like, what's this? Next thing you know, I eat a mushroom. I hate mushrooms. And then 10 minutes like, man, I'm tripping balls. I'm getting. I'm cranked. I'm cranked. Like what? That mushroom was magic. Oh, man. Okay. So before we get to your number one, don't send me for it. Please don't. No. I just want to ask one more X-Files question because I think it's important.

How much do you think that show influenced eophology? I mean, I know for me as a child watching the X-Files, I wanted to become Fox Boulder like that. It had a lot to do with me becoming a UFO researcher. Yes, much. Yeah. And Euphology or the UFO subculture influenced it. But absolutely, I think X-Files influenced euphology, more than any other fictional construct television series film that I can think of, which would include Close Encounters of the Third Kind, any of that stuff. just absolutely. I think it influenced ghost hunting, all the paranormal stuff.

Yeah. I think X-Files was a launching pad for a whole bunch of people to think about things differently, including myself, although it was entertainment. It's not real, but it was entertainment that may be, okay, well, let's take a look at this or think about this. I think it went like, not always in a good way either. Yeah. The conspiracy stuff and the anti-government stuff is not good and has led us to some very dangerous places. But some of the other stuff like, hey, here's an episode on vampires. All right. Let's think about vampires.

Let's see. Or whatever. Or, you know, the people who travel through time together or whatever you have. And UFOs included as well and even maybe some of the cover-up and conspiracy stuff. No question. It influenced. And it was like a snake eating its tail, right? Or whatever.

X-Files is influenced by the conspiracy UFO subculture. And then it begins to influence it in the way it presents it and is feeding back. and then it just around it goes like that I think that continues to the stay I think you're right yeah I think it had a lot it's just one of those shows it hit at the right time

where conspiracies were still sort of innocent and you could fictionalize it and nowadays we can't tell up from down left from right when it comes to these conspiracies because people actually take them seriously a lot of them and it's yeah I will answer

there is Emmanuel 5 I'll answer that question. I'm not doing past life hypnosis, probably because I don't believe in the use of hypnosis for memory recovery. I don't think it's an effective tool at all. But even if it is, I don't know,

I don't want to know what my past lives were. Like, that's the fun part. I only want to know at the end. Like if there is such a thing, cool, Paul, you were these 88 people or 97 people or whatever. Here's who they were. Okay, that was fun.

Now I have, there's nothing more for me to learn. All right, what's next? Where do we go from here? Yeah. But I wouldn't want to know, hey, you were ditch digger number 27 in 1642 when the English Civil War was going on or something and you got speared. Great. Thanks.

You were once married to a supermodel. Awesome. But am I married to a supermodel now? Say yes. Yes. Yes, I am. My wife is hot. But you know what I mean?

That idea is if it was good, you'd go, oh. If it was bad, you go, I don't want to hear about that. Right. Yeah. I just want to live my life. I love that. I feel the same way. I think, like you mentioned, if you had all these lives, eventually you have learned everything and you've lived all these lives to get to this greater place or whatever comes after all of these lives. I think you're right. I wouldn't want those to influence what I'm experiencing now in this body, in this heart, in this soul, in this mind. Yeah. Yeah. So I would have to agree. I also don't believe in hypnosis. You know, in my early euphology. You will give me your beer.

Must make Paul dinner. I went in my younger days of euthology. I was all about the hypnosis when it came to retrieving, recovered memories of alien abductees. I don't ascribe to that any longer. I think it's too faulty. I don't. This is going to be hard. respect the hell out of my mentor, Peter Robbins, who was the assistant to Bud Hopkins,

whose approach, very good. Bud Hopkins was a great man. No, no, Peter Robbins. Bud and I didn't always see. That's fair. That's fair. Wonderful artist. I will say that. Love is art.

Peter Robbins is a great guy. Yes, he is. Yes. And hypnosis is just very controversial. I'll put it that way. And the more I've looked into it and the more I've actually seen sessions, take place. I do not think it is an effective tool to retrieve memories of possible alien abduction

experiences. I am David Jacobs. I am David Jacobs. Send me your underwear. Send me your underwear. From your alien abduction. It's a little song I've been working on for my return to the music industry. Anyway.

Juan Manuel. Look up David Jacobs. Emma Woods. Emma Woods. Underwear. Yeah, just go with that one. And that will tell you all you need to know about hypnosis in alien. As a memory recovery tool, at least from me.

Yeah, absolutely. I do think people have used it with good intentions. I don't think Jacobs is one of them. But I do think some people try and do it with the right intentions, but the results can't be trusted. Very good point. I've also met many people who do the hypnosis. Hypnosis.

Hip-hop. The hypnosis. Hypnosis. It's a Whoa. That's our speedy Gonzalez. Oh, is that? Yeah.

I just got canceled. Miguel Romero, we're sorry. I'm so sorry, Miguel. What is, there's something on Suzanne's head. What is that on your head? Who? Oh, the pole. Yes, the poll.

Yes, we will get to it. The poll. We put a poll up on YouTube. Smooth segue, buddy. Wow. I just got out of that one. Where were we, Paul? Holy hell, that was a

Fifth person. Fifth person. person. Let's get to your not number one, but the last person here that you miss. You followed you. So Stuart Miller once, I think the article, the interview he did with me, I think he titled it, Paul Kimball likes Dick, which will tell you all you need to know about Stuart Miller. I thought it was hilarious. Some other people thought, and what he meant was Dick Hall, Richard Hall.

And everybody called him Dick. But he's like, Paul Kimball likes Dick. because in the interview I talked a lot about Dick Hall. I don't think I had any mentors in euthology, maybe Stan. But Dick wasn't a mentor, but he was the one guy I respected the most. Yeah, and I'm glad I got to meet him before he passed away in 2009. A very intelligent man, deeply committed UFO researcher, an absolute cantankerous kermudgeon who broke zero zero tomfoolery within euthology

be a little humorless to some people not to me I think he actually quit writing for UFO magazine at one point to protest them doing something about MJ12 or letting Stephen Greer write an article I can't remember but he just said that's it I'm done I think he used to write a regular column. He said, screw that. So Hall, Dick, was just a really good guy. I interviewed him for best evidence, top 10 UFO sightings. And so I flew down to his home outside Washington. Here's a cautionary tale for euphology, or anyone, frankly.

But Dick was in probably poverty at the time. He lost most of his life. He was retired. He lost most of his pension, his life savings. I think it was the Enron scandal, like many Americans. And so I have only ever paid two people for interviews. One of them had a first name that rhymes with Dick and speaks with a British accent. And by the way, there's a new Pope.

So there you go. You can do the math on that one, folks. And fair enough, I agreed. It was Nick Pope. And I agreed to pay him. I did 500 bucks, I think, for an interview. Fine. Dick was the other one.

And unlike Nick, who had asked for the money up front, which totally, you know, fine, Dick did not ask for money. I wasn't paying, you know, for interviews. For a lot of reasons, low budget being one of them, relatively low budget compared to, say, a James Fox film. But also, just on principle, I didn't believe you should be paying people for interviews because they were getting something out of it, too. If they didn't want to do the interview, that's fine. I was happy to, and there were a few people who didn't, one or two who would ask for money. And I said, look, we don't sign the budget.

And they said, okay, we politely decline. I won't say who they were. Fine. Pope, I needed because it was a random form case. And so I was willing, you know, Philly and I were going over to England. So fine. I'm there. I have to interview Nick Pope.

No problem. And we got along great. Dick, though, when I was finished with him, I, like, I just felt so bad. he had stains on his collar kind of thing. And it's just the QFOS files were in his house. And they were in the basement, the old Center for UFO Studies. And I was like, oh, my God, they're going to rock down here sort of thing. And I just remember I walked over to him.

Look, I have a reputation of being a complete douchebag asshole. Sorry, folks, for the language. I don't know what you're talking about. Sorry, you're fine. And I said, look, Dick, by the way, you know, I know you didn't ask or anything, but there's an appearance fee for being in the film. Yeah, we keep it on the QT, so don't tell anyone. Like, I tell everybody when I say me and I said, oh, I said, yeah, it's $500 U.S. dollars.

And look, it's in cash. And so I happen to have $500 U.S. dollars in my wallet. Don't ask why. And drugs. And so we went without cocaine that night, folks, Finlay and I, no. And so I handed it and then Dick said, like Dick said, do you need, we both. knew what was happening, but you leave the person with their dignity too. And he said, do you need a receipt or anything? I said, I do, Dick, if you could email that to me and it'll be waiting

for me. I still have it through receipt. And so yeah, I'm an asshole, but maybe not as much as people think. So I would never tell that story when he was alive. But he told, he actually told a couple people. And so I got one person who I won't mention saying, hey, I hear you're paying. for that documentary. And you said you weren't. And I was like, okay, no, we're not. That's sui generis kind of thing. But yeah, that's where he wound up.

After years and years, the UFO evidence, volumes one and two, which are seminal works in euphology in terms of evidence. He's a regular contributor on UFO updates, one of the best, probably the best, I think. Just a super sensible guy, nice guy, too. And life did him dirty. and that can happen to anyone.

It's not just euthology. But I remember when life did him dirty, not, there were some, but, you know, euphology kind of forgot about them to the point where I suspect a lot of people and I certainly don't blame you. Dick's been dead since 2009.

So if you're younger or new to euthology, you might not know who he is. But he's not been whitewashed out of euthology, but I think he's been largely forgotten by, I'm pretty sure Jeremy Corbell has never referenced Dick Hall. He might have. And if he has, I'll apologize to Jeremy. But I suspect I won't have to. And, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And Dick was not the flashy Lou Elizondo Bobble or whatever. You know, he wasn't spinning crazy stories. He wasn't,

hey, Bob Lazar's awesome, blah, blah, blah. Dick was just like, here's a case. Here's a case. Here's a case. Here's a case. Here's a case. Here's the Condon report. Here's why it's wrong. Here's why their conclusions were wrong. And I'll show you five cases that they ignored her. they whitewashed in the Condon report. And those are the guys that people today should look up to a euphology and say, we don't stand on this, you, because you guys are in euphology, not me, I'm out. But people in euphology stand on the shoulders, not of giants, but of real men and women. They're like Wendy Connors.

There were women in the field as well. Just not very many. And Ruffel, good example, who did at times. who did at times real research, good research of all sorts of read And Druffles' biography of James McDonald, Firestar. One of my favorite books. Yeah. Who made contributions, and most of them are forgot by the current, no offense, folks, UFO Twitter crowd.

So if you haven't heard of Stuart Miller, I get it. If you haven't heard of Arrow Bruce Snap, I get it. Although, if you haven't heard of Carl Flock, I don't get it. That's on you. If you haven't heard of Jim Mosley, shame on you because Jim Mosley is integral to the entire history of Uphology in a way that Miller, Bruce Knapp, and even Carl or not. And Dick Hall is right there on the other side because he and Mosley were very antithetical, if you will. Dick didn't have much use. Dick did not like Jim.

Jim like Dick, because Dick was good for copy on saucer smear, but he just mercilessly could vote fun at him. and Dick had no sense of ha-ha, to be fair. But those two guys, much more so than the other three, are absolutely indispensable to the history of euphology, and they were there for decades, both on their different sides of the street. And to not know who they are is, it's a crime, like a war crime or something,

but it's a crime if you consider yourself interested in the UFO phenomenon, if you consider yourself a uphologist, you don't have to talk about them every day, but you should at least know who they are. And I could be wrong, but I'm guessing Corbell, he spends all his time talking about Bob Lazar. Oh, go read UFO evidence.

Have you, Jeremy? I suspect he hasn't again if he has. Cool, I'm going to ask him what's on page 96, and let's see if he can pull it out of his copy. They probably maybe know about Jim Mosley, but I don't know. Like if you don't know, if you haven't read shockingly close to the truth,

then you're not really a euphologist. You don't have to agree with everything that's in it, but you're not serious about the phenomenon and you're not serious about the study of the phenomenon because you need to know the people who've studied it and the scams and the cons, which closely goes into, but you also need to read like Dick calls the UFO

evidence. You need to read Jerry Clark's, it's, I don't even know if you can get Clark's UFO Encyclopedia anymore. It was pricey back in the day. But you find them. See, you can find PDFs. They're probably online or whatever. It would be nice if they're not, if somebody would digitize them and get them up.

And so, you know, maybe somebody should do that. But those resources, those people are out there. I think you can still find the UFO updates. I thought somebody might have archived them. But history matters. And so you don't keep repeating the same mistakes maybe that these people made. So Stan, Stan's fine. His memory lives.

on, but when ballet passes away, his will probably live on to a degree. People remember, or at least they know the name Heinek, maybe Edward Rupelt, maybe a couple others. Jim McDonald, not so much, but maybe. But these are like the unsung-ish heroes. Mosley, you might know, but you might not like people. He gets a bad rap. He was a demunker, and he wasn't serious and stuff.

Well, he was the Crown Jester, or Court Jester, and you need one of those. Dick Hall is a guy you absolutely should know. And you should know his work and you should know the impact and contribution he made to Uphology. And again, cautionary tale, how it wound up for him too, you know, alone in poverty, not Uphology's fault about the poverty part. But these are the guys that mattered. And to me they matter because I knew them.

I've got privileged to have met these five guys. Never met Mosley in person, which I had. always intended to go down to Key West and never got around to doing it and then he passed away in 2012. But the other four I did not only meet in person, but several times in Carl's case, only once sadly with Dick, because he passed away not too long after I met him. But these were important people who did important work and a lot of what you have now is built on that. And frankly, not just built. This is why I get angry folks.

A lot of what these guys built is being torn down. now and being corrupted now. And that does get me a little angry. And it's why I don't return to euthology, even though there are good people in euphology. Just because I see what happens, they're either forgotten these guys or even if they're not remembered,

the things that they did are ignored. So, you know, sure, Tick-Tac case, which is actually kind of old now. It's like not the newest case. But, you know, hey, whatever the new case is, chandeliers, you know, or reflections on the ground, whatever you have. Dick Hall and those guys would have made it. Lou Elizondo would have been thrown into the trash bin within a couple months just but putting stuff like that out there. They had no tolerance for that.

They really believe that the UFO phenomenon was something worth serious, especially Dick, serious scientific inquiry. And Dick had zero patience for anybody that was a huck. a con artist, a grifter, you know, somebody who just wanted to get some money or celebrity or attention, anonymous sources, although occasionally, you know, maybe, if it checked out. But no, you need more of that. You need more Dick and less, as Stuart Miller would say, unless he really did, he said, Paul Kimball likes Dick and people get very offended by that. And if you get offended by me constantly repeating it, well, somewhere Stewart's having a good laugh. Because you also, Stuart and especially Jim Mosley were guys who had a sense of humor, which I really liked, because I do too,

and willing to not just take the piss out of it, but push the boundaries, especially mostly, as far as you could push them and then go, cool, push a little further. Even further. I am really going to piss these people off to see how angry they can get at me. But in seeing how angry they would be, Jim would learn something about them. So yeah, those are my five guys that I really, plus. Mac Tonys plus Stan obviously plus others that have sadly

passed away. Chris O'Brien. I enjoyed Chris when he was on the paracast. I enjoyed B. Edney when he was on the paracast. But, you know, we all get old. We all die. Hopefully long in the future for us, but who knows. Yeah, that's your potato thing. But yeah, don't forget the, you know, the, what is it?

The Midnight Oil said the future dries up when the, I can't remember the quote, never mind. But don't forget the past. So seek out and find Dick Hall's work and Jim Mosley's and Carl Foxx, narrow Bruce Knapps, and Stuart numbers too. Yeah. It's good stuff. Absolutely.

I love that. And, you know, as someone who used to be one of the younger people in eophology. Still our kid. Now I'm like channeling my Han solo. Don't get cocky, kidding. But, you know, there will come a time, you know, where I will then have those five that I'm going to have to choose. I'll be one of them.

Paul. Stop. died in World War 7. We're not making it into World War 7, buddy. I don't know if we're going to make it to WW3. I last saw him in a potato coffin. I was just going to say, I think I'm going to be the one to go first if you keep feeding me these potatoes

because, yeah, yeah. Oh, boy. Ryan's like, you won't be one to five, Paul. You might get a mention. That's my honorable mention. Okay. So I think this is a perfect time to go to our poll on YouTube. Yeah.

So I asked of the public over here. Spare not have anything to do with me. It does. Whoa. What was going on there? What did you just do? I don't know. I'm playing our own live stream.

Where did we go? How met it? I don't know. Okay. So here was our question, Paul. Oh. I asked, should Paul return to ufology? Hey, we're frozen.

Oh, yeah. What's going on there? Oh, I froze it. Or I paused it. Here we come. We're coming back. Hopefully you can still hear us. I'm going to vote so that we get the results.

Oh, it won't let me vote. What is happening? What is happening? Oh, my gosh. Suzanne, I can't get the results for some reason on my end. Ryan Sprague. Tech guru. Is Elon Musk of Live streams?

Oh, I wonder if I could check it on my phone. Wait, so what was the question again? I asked, should Paul Kimball return to? euphology. Oh, can I vote? Where's my iPad? I'm voting no. Oh my gosh. I can't find it. I already know the answer. Suzanne, what are the results? Can you let us know, Suzanne, what the results are? Take your time. Take your time. I get Ryan to do this, but he's terrible. Why is it not showing up in here? That's such a bummer. We'll get to it. Oh, he's holding up a piece of paper. Okay. Let me see if I can read that. I got it. All right. right guys should paul return to uphology 63% say yes no no 5% said no oh 11% said um he never left 11%

and 21% said um ask in five years why is this the one election i win i ran for office in 2017 got beat oh yeah tell us about that actually i'm glad I lost too. You're going to be the mayor of no, no, I'm kidding. No, I ran for the equivalent of the state senate for you Americans, the provincial legislature in Nova Scotia. Florida is still counting votes. Florida is still counting.

Yeah. Clayton Park West District, 21 is still counting votes. No, yeah, I finished. Funny story, though, when I ran the party that was in government, I was running for an opposition party, the progressive conservatives, had a couple of operatives. They were young kids, like teenagers. one of whom I became friends with John Grant, if you're watching.

And they started spreading around stuff about me. Like Paul Kimball's a crazy UFO, whackadoodle and everything. Whoa. Me, arch skeptic, evil doer, Darth Vader of euphology. And now I'm getting hit with it too. And I thought it, like you could, you got one and two options, folks. You could get really angry or you could do what I did, which is, hey, because they were leaving them indoors, too, and stuff like.

And I posted it on Facebook and I said, yeah, it's funny. I said that. Sure enough. It's out of context. That's out of, it's all out of context. But yeah, this is, I would do this to me too. Embrace it. Yeah, I embraced it.

So one of them, you know, never became friends or whatever. But the other guy, guy named John Grant, young guy. We had dinner, I think, last year, whatever. He's a good guy. And yeah, I said, it's the highest form of flattery. You guys actually think I'm a threat because. And the party I was running for it. progressive conservatives had finished third, like for 20 years in that writing.

And don't need to get into why they thought I was a threat. It had to do with the film industry. It doesn't matter. But I finished second. I increased the parties vote by I think 24%. And while I didn't, I was still 2,000 votes or something behind, you know, move the party ahead. And they now have a progressive conservative MLA because they won in the last election. And I just thought, cool, the sincerest form of flattery is that somebody actually

attacks you. And the reason I was running for the progressive conservatives is the NDP, which is the sort of Democratic Socialist Party, which I had been a member of, wouldn't let me run. Why? Because the leader said, we think some of your UFO work is going to prove too controversial. Wow. And you will be, and they wouldn't even let me stand. I've been recommended by the local party committee in the writing, because there's a by-election

coming up. And they wouldn't even let me stand. Central office, you know, this. wouldn't let me stand. And so I went public and I said, oh, I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. I'm like Elaine. I quit. I quit. And, uh, you know, peace out. I'm going to go join the progressive conservative party. I didn't say that, but they actually asked me to run. I said, okay, I'll consider it. The, the great irony, though, is the leader of the party realizing this would become a slight public relations problem because I wasn't going to win the nomination. A more popular person was going to win it. did and became an MLA. So they didn't have to do this.

It wasn't even an issue, but they were even afraid to let me stand. And so Stan, the laughter curtain, everything Stan used to say, eh, still a little bit of this. But the guy who led the party was a guy named Gary Burrell. And Gary Biller was, Burl is, he's not the leader anymore. He was an old line socialist from the 60s. Like he was, he was Bernie Sanders on steroids kind of thing. I like this guy.

No, no, you don't. He was Bernie Sanders. He's a nice fellow. And he called me up to him. apologize and I listened to his apology and I said thanks but no thanks about coming back to the party. You know, done. He was a United Church minister.

So my line was, wait a second, I don't believe UFOs are space aliens. I just made some films as part of my job where I gave people who do the opportunity to speak and I'm willing to entertain the possibility. I think there's a serious scientific mystery here. That's me. You literally believe a guy was resurrected from the dead, walked on water, cured lepros, and God knows what else Jesus is alleged to have done. That's where you come from.

And I'm the guy that's got a problem. And I didn't say that to him. I have said that since. And hey, look, I respect everybody's religion. My grandfather was a reformed Baptist minister. But it does tell you something that maybe Stan was a little right about even this was 2015-16, that there's still a bit of a, ha-ha-ha, you know, don't get too involved in this because they will use it against you.

And by they, I don't mean the dark cabal of evil, just whoever. Right. But, you know, there it is. You believed a guy walked on water. And by the way, I assume you believe in the Old Testament, too, that God part of the Red Sea. And, you know, maybe it's all an allegory, I don't know. But come on. Like, really? UFOs?

That's your, that's the line in the sand. If UFOs are the tame thing, then, wow. I know. Wow. So, yeah, that was, that was my political career in a nutshell. I would never run again. It's peak pollination season, and my business is scaling fast. To keep the nectar flowing, I need a phone plan with top priority data speed.

That's why I chose GoogleFi Wireless. My connections stay strong even when the hive is buzzing. Plus, unlimited plans start at $35 a month. Now, that's a deal that doesn't stay. Explore GoogleFi Wireless plans today. Plus taxes and government fees. GoogleFi Wireless is not subject to data traffic deprioritization during times of high network usage. But I did better in this poll.

So thank you. There you go. Wait, no, I lost this poll. They want me to come back. Oh, geez, I lost again. They're going to pull you back in the poll. 5%? Come on.

You know what else? Jesus created? Potato fudge. Potato fudge. Yeah. So I'm going to try some of this potato fudge as we wrap things up here. I do food shows too, so this is exciting. He does.

Here we are in Home Sweet Home. Amy Murphy, you're fired. Ryan's hot. He's our new host. of home sweet home. Oh, sweet. And we're going to start with an episode on potato Fudge. Let's see how he does with food.

While we do that, this is an audition. We do want to let you guys know that over on our Patreon, we are going to be doing a bonus episode with Paul. Now, we did the top five people he misses most in Euphology. Tell them what we're going to be talking about over on Patreon, Paul. Oh. The...

As his mouth is full. The five people, that I wish would just go away. Not die. I can't stress this enough. Let's make that. Because we've just talked about five people who passed away. But your 15 minutes is up.

Go away. You do nothing but bring the field into disrepute. And I hate you all. It hates a strong word. There we go. And in the great words of one, Eric Bischoff, what is it? Controversy creates cash.

So if you guys want to help out somewhere in disguise, head on over to Patreon. Our bonus episode where Paul breaks down the people he wants out. Wow. Jesus can moonwalk on water. Thank you, Manuel. I didn't know that. Yeah.

Are there any questions we missed? I would take one more question. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Let me go to the star. Trying to help out your fans here. Oh, yes. Here we go.

Oh, this is a good one. Oh, don't say that. Paul, where were you during the Phoenix lights? I did. It's very hard to the state to debunk it. Military aircraft are never so audacious, physical. Yeah, where were you during the Phoenix Lights? Did you hear about it when it happened?

And what do you think of it? It was probably asleep because it was pretty early in the morning here. Yeah. I've never been a fan of the case. Really? Didn't make my film. And I had one vote, but I had like 60 euthologists. It wasn't even close to being one of the top cases when I did my poll of euthologists.

I think you had like four votes. Okay. And I would say to everybody, hey, do a top 10 list kind of thing. Yeah. Now, to be fair, I didn't send a ballot to Lynn Kattai, the Phoenix Lights, lady. But yeah, most of the people I knew within eunology didn't think very highly of it and tended to accept most of the government's explanation. Yeah. If not every single detail. Yeah. But I will also say it's not a case that I have ever looked into extensively other than

being lectured on it by Lynn Kittai in a hotel room. Sounds wrong when I say it like that. There are other people in the room. There's a UFO orgy at, uh, I think it was the Loughlin UFO conference. Oh. And she was very nice, but she really started going on about the Phoenix lights. Before my time. And I was just like, I don't care about the Phoenix lights. I just, I don't.

I got better cases. Dems fighting words. I like it, but I understand. Yeah. And, you know, to people who like it, whatever or any case, fine, Roswell. I don't buy Roswell. But, you know, if you think it's a good case, cool. Like, yeah.

Just you do you, boo. Exactly. And I'll do. to me because I'm not in euphology. That's what he thinks. Join us over on Patreon, guys. We're going to go over there and do our top five who need to get out of euphology. Maroon pig coconut squares for everybody.

And I'm going to try this potato fudge for the very first time. Here we go. Bottoms up, guys. You want some or now? Oh, I've already, no, I'm eating coconut. I've already hit potato punch. How is it? This is your audition.

Let's see if you can do your best Amy Murphy impression. Yeah, that's pretty good. Paul, this is the best thing I've ever had in my mouth. Listen, folks are going to think that's, we're mean. Amy actually said that once in an episode of Home Sweet Home, which is the food, they go to restaurants and stuff. And she said, putting something, she was eating something. She said, this is the best thing I've ever had in my mouth.

And everybody on the crew, including the person who ran the restaurant, started laughing. And it took Amy about two seconds ago, oh, my, oh my, what a double entendre. what I just said. Oh my God. This is incredible. It actually really is. Yeah. I don't taste potato at all.

It tastes like almost a maple chocolate fudge. Yeah. There you go. Love it. Cannot stress enough, guys. Come to PEI, go to the potato museum. And go mini golfing with Ryan at, God, I always forget.

River of Adventure with the lobster. Yeah. If you want your ego stroke, then, uh, Yeah, for sure. Paul, thank you. Thank you for, I think this is going to be awesome for newer people getting involved in the topic to learn from these individuals. I've learned about two of them today that even I was not aware of. So I'm looking forward to digging into their work as well. But yeah, any parting words for our folks here. And where can everyone find what you're up to? I don't want them to find me. I'm a very private individual now. I find me on Twitter. He's a hermit. I'm a hermit.

Stuart Miller, Arrow Bruce Knapp, Carl Flock, Jim Mosley, Dick Hall. Those are my final words. I love that. I love that, guys.

Again, you can head over to Patreon to hear our bonus episode. That should be out very soon. Like, subscribe, all that good stuff. Leave us a rating and review on Spotify and Apple if you can.

We would really appreciate that. And yeah, I'm heading out. I'm heading back home. in just a couple days here, but this has become our, I know, I'm so sad. But this is like our new tradition. We do an episode every time I leave. And I couldn't think of a better person and a better topic to discuss tonight with you.

So thank you again, Paul, for coming on. This show is trash. I got a dead. I got a dead. I'm just kidding. So we are. It's, yeah, yeah. You'll get it.

You'll get it soon, promise. Thank you so much to all of you guys for joining us tonight. Regulars, new people, people watching. in the future in the past, in the present. In the year 2000. Didn't we just make that joke like two days ago? Yeah. Okay.

Awesome. Yes. And be sure to check out Haunted on East Link if you are in the Nova Scotia slash slash Maritime. Where's your beer? Yeah. You're cut off, dude. This dude's done.

He's done. I'll put links for all of that stuff. Guys, you can watch past episodes of Haunted on the East Link YouTube channel right now with more to come in the future. And Haunted Heart and Soul, tell us a little bit about this creation, if you don't mind. Literally the last three months of my life. It's a spinoff from Haunted, which is the show we've been doing for, I think they're on season 15. I can't remember.

I quit. I retired as a ghost hunter after season 13, turned it over to my old friends, Holly Stevens, and Dylan Garland to co-direct and co-write. So they're running Haunted now, which has one more season to go, and then hopefully East Link will give us more. Yay. And I created Haunted Heart and Soul, which features Ryan as one of the investigators, Amy Murphy, who we just made fun of, as another one. I'm Kim Moser. Both of them were on Haunted at various times in the past, as was Ryan.

And Chelsea LaSelle, who is sort of a medium kind of ghost investigator. Definitely a ghost investigator. Urban Explorer, all sorts of stuff. Really cool person. And it's a slightly different show than Haunted. This one, more heart and soul, I guess. More about the stories of the ghosts. Whereas Unhaunted, we would often do our experiences.

They do that too. But these guys really dig in to the ghosts themselves and the stories of the properties and interview witnesses and all that, which, to be fair, Holly and I used to do, mostly Holly. And we stopped doing it after about season three or four, I think. So there are two kind of different shows. It's nice to have a franchise. We call it the Haunted Universe.

And I'm very happy that Dylan and Holly, they'll be starting up a new season in September. And this season, I just co-produced with my partner, Ron Foley MacDonald. Brad Cormier directs Haunted Heart and Soul. And he began working as a sound guy. Crazy. That's a crazy world.

He did a great job. He really did. Amazing job. Better job than I could have. So, So Holly is a better host than I am. So I fired myself from that show. And Brad's a better.

I was going to direct Hart and Saul. And Brad turns out to be a better director of ghost shows and I am. So I can my ass on that one. So the person who gets fired most by me, me. And I just fired myself again from mythology. Done. The triple whammy right there. I love it.

Shout out to Brandon Cadman. Be CAD. Be CAD. Go. You're watching this. That's all of it. That's all we got, guys. All right.

Again, we're going on two hours here, so we're going to cut this here, go over to Patreon, head on over there, check out our bonus episode. Yes, Paul beat me in miniature golf. He will not let it go. I won't. It's a long drive home to more rhyme. It is, I know. I can't wait to listen to more of your incredible music.

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