Somewhere in the Skies - Top UFO Stories of 2021

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

On episode 242 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we count down the top UFO stories to invade our media outlets this past year! We are joined by UFO Jane, journalist and frequent contributor to The Unidentified Celebrity Review, and Micah Hanks, creator of The Debrief and host of the Micah Hanks Program. From Skinwalkers at the Pentagon to NASA finally getting in on the UFO game. From UFOs over nuclear installations to Luis Elizondo's GQ interview. This and so much more as we hurdle our way through the final days of 2021 with hope for what comes next in a new year or revelations, discoveries, and of course... UFOs! Check out the Art of Steve Neil (Communion Bust) by CLICKING HERE Follow UFO Jane on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/TxUFOSightings Follow Micah Hanks on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/MicahHanks 50% of Patreon Contributions and ALL merch sales for the month of December will be donated to the Women's Refugee Commission. To learn more, visit: www.womensrefugeecommission.org Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Somewhere in the Skies Coffee: CLICK HERE  Order Ryan’s book in paperback, ebook, or audiobook by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Somewhere in the Skies Subreddit: www.reddit.com/r/SomewhereSkiesPod/ Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Copyright © 2021 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Copyright Disclaimer: Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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com slash somewhere skies. Thank you and keep looking up. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan's bread. Welcome to a very special live stream. We're doing this Sunday evening. So first of all, I have to thank all of you for coming on here with me tonight and joining in on the fun on your Sunday evening, especially our two. I'm going to call them co-hosts tonight. They're not guests.

They're going to be co-hosts. And we're going to be talking all about the UFO story of 2021. our favorites, what we thought were some of the best stories about UFOs to hit us this past year. And then what comes next in 2022? What do we hope comes next in terms of UFOs? But before we bring in our co-hosts, one of them was unfortunately not able to join us tonight, Chrissy Newton. She did have an emergency, but she sends her best to everyone.

We sent our best thoughts and prayers and love to her as well. But we got someone who came in from the dugout. and is going to be replacing Chrissy tonight, and I'm really excited about that. Other than that, I do want to introduce the little guy here in the corner. This is my communion bust that I just had made. This thing is incredible and a little terrifying. I'm not going to lie.

I had this made by Steve Neal. He is a artist in Los Angeles, and this thing is just incredible. It is as lifelike as it comes. It's got an amazing little pedestal. still here. So he's going to be joining us, Mr. Communion, on the show every week now. So yes, thank you to Steve Neal. You can check out his studio where he makes all different types of movie memorabilia and alien busts and stuff like that. His link is in the show notes below.

So yeah, that's all I got, guys. So without further ado, let's bring in our two co-host for tonight. First, we have journalist at Texas UFO sightings.com, host of the weird UFO show on YouTube, and co-host of the Unidentified Celebrity Review. So first and foremost, UFO Jane, welcome to somewhere in the skies. Hey, that communion alien is awesome and so creepy. I don't know if I could have it in this space. I think I'd have to put it in a different part of the house. It's going to go away after the broadcast for sure, because I cannot be coming in the room in the dark in that thing staring at me.

Yeah, while researching UFOs, they're watching you. It's too much. That's too much. That's awesome, though. That's amazing. Well, thank you for joining me tonight. This is going to be pretty fun. Yeah, I'm super excited.

Let's bring in our second co-host. Like I mentioned, unfortunately, Chrissy won't be here. But taking her place is none. other than the mouth from the south. Let me do his other little intro I did here as well. We've got author, researcher, creator of the space tech defense and UFO news media site, The Debrief, and host of many podcasts, including the titular Micah Hank's program. Joining us tonight is Micah Hanks. What's up, my man? Good to be here, as always. Extraordinary to be here with both of you.

And of course, to finally grace the presence of the lovely Lady Jane. So I'm extremely excited to be here for this conversation tonight. And by the way, knowing it would be a historic conversation, I put on my little like Indian elephants. I love it. This thingy. And so now I feel like I'm ready to travel, you know, the seven seas, maybe go all the way around the world. And perhaps, in fact, tonight we shall. Oh, we will. We will. And just celebrate. I've got a Guinness here. So cheers to both of you. Cheers to both of you. Cheers to everyone watching. What do you got, Jane? This is Crawford Bach. It's beer. I'm not a beer expert. It's beer. It's good beer. It's from a brewery that's in Houston here in Texas. So, but yeah,

it's super yummy. Excellent. I should have known you'd have a Texas beer. Yeah. What do you got there, Mike? Well, I don't have Guinness tonight. Strangely, you know, actually, this is a beer. When I was young man, I used to love the old heinie. And, you know, for whatever reason, I revisited this, this famous beverage right here. And indeed, she doesn't let me down. But I'll tell you, as you know, my long time and I think really ultimate favorite is the Guinness, what you have in the glass there. And I see apparently your friend with a rather large eyes behind you. Who's drinking? He's going to be drinking partaking tonight as well.

I know. Guys, this is going to be so much fun. This is going to be super laid back. Everyone in the chat, please feel free to join in. Tell us what your favorite stories of 2021 were. But I came to you, Jane, and Chrissy originally with what stories you guys wanted to talk about in 2021 that happened with UFOs. And, of course, Mike is going to hit us with his favorites later on in the program. But the first one I really want to talk about that I believe you brought to us, Jane, was Skinwalkers at the Pentagon.

Crazy brought this up. Oh, she did. Okay. We can, it's, of course, I mean, who doesn't want to talk about Skinwalker? I'm fairly well equipped to be able to talk about anything that Chrissy was going to talk about. You know, when you sent the last minute invite, she messaged me right afterward and explained her situation, said, thank you for covering for me. I'll just say, whether it's the Debris family or whether it's our extended family of which both of you are apart, we all look out for each other.

So I got her back, okay? Absolutely, man. And that's why I love you guys. It's amazing. Let's say hi to some of the people in the chat here. We got Aaron DeSario, Rodrigo, Greg. Miss Fire Jack. We got Matthew Riot, who's always here. Girl with the Sasquatch tattoo.

Greg, Grandmaster, UV, UAP. I can't even say that. A Tiroa? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But guys, thank you. Thank you for joining us tonight. If I missed you, send me another chat here. Good evening to everyone. Let's start, guys, with Skinwalkers at the Pentagon. I'm going to do a little synopsis here at the book.

Skinwalkers at the Pentagon was written by George Knapp, Tell me if I'm wrong, George Knapp, Combe Kelleher, and, oh my gosh, what was the main guy? James Lakatsky. Thank you. Thank you, Micah. And what was his position? Do you remember? Yes, so James Lakatsky essentially was the, essentially the program manager for this project, of course,

Allsap that was run out of the Defense Intelligence Agency, which is a combat support agency of the DOD. and as Lakatsky and his co-authors, the, again, the legendary reporter, George Knapp, and also Colin Kelleher, who had been involved with the National Institute for Discovery Science, going back to the early days of Bigelow's UFO investigations. These three guys basically explain, you know, what the scope of the AllSap program was and where the confusion arrived from the idea of ATIP and how it related to Allsap, which we can get into a little later.

Absolutely, yep. And we missed Mr. Siam. Apocalypse here. So we're going to have to say hi to him as well. Micah, thank you. Thanks for catching us up on that. What I'm going to do, Jane, before I get your thoughts on this book and what you made of that entire confusion, I guess, between Atip, Ossap and what was in the book. I do have a portion of the interview that George Knapp actually did with his co-authors. So if you guys don't mind, I'm going to go ahead and play that now. And we'll get your thoughts on the other side. Can you address whether OSAP was first and foremost an investigation of UFO phenomena? Why isn't it made obvious in any of the documentation that's been made public so far? It was completely UFO related. The reason you haven't seen the documentation is we used a statement of objectives format for the request for proposal.

That is insufficient for anyone examining the contents of the contract. they must have the proposal. Now, within the proposal, and in this case, it was from Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies, it's clearly mentioned among the topics proposed a worldwide database of advanced aerospace vehicles. There can be no ambiguity here. This was being proposed as a UFO project. Now, if you want to look at the tail end of the project, you'll find over 100 documents required to be reported to the Defense Intelligence Agency that were UFO related, in part, of course. I mean, they were very large documents.

And you also have, you know, technical studies and you have that database, probably the largest UFO. database that exists in the world and is currently being used by the U.S. military. So, yes, it was completely a UFO project. One of the other things that's been confusing for the public over the last almost four years. The New York Times and other major media outlets reported that that $22 million went to ATIP, not to ASAP. Can you clarify the difference between ASAP and ATIP? Yes. The name atyp was a nickname for ASAP for certain security reasons that we've put into the book. But the difference between ASAP with the nickname ATIP at DIA and ATIP at the Pentagon is quite distinct.

AASAP had $22 million of funding. It covered military and civilian UFOs. yielding a massive database. Now, ATIP in the Pentagon, as described in the articles, was basically zero-funded, looked at specific military UFO encounters and very important ones because they had film and it had no contract. So getting back to how did this mix up occur, I think it's not it's not deliberate. It's not due to authors, to television personalities, et cetera. It's the fact we were running not an official sap, but a closed program. I can tell you for a fact that within my own office, they did not know except leadership that this contract was being run.

Yeah. So, and that is the longest video I have tonight, guys. So stick with us, I promise. That'll be the longest one. But I wanted to really show kind of, you know, this issue that kind of arose. You know, we had the New York Times in 2017 saying, you know, A-Tip, this huge Pentagon program had $22 million. And now we come to find out through this book, they didn't have a dime of it. So what do you guys think? What do you make of all of this stuff that they brought forward in the book?

And just the book in general, did this help the UFOs? topic? Did it hinder it? Yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts? Jane, let's start with you if you don't mind. Well, I did not, excuse me, I did not read the book. So I was reacting to the reactions of the book. And so, in my opinion, I don't know that it helped. I don't know if it hurt the UFO community, but I don't know if it helped. I feel like the majority of the conversation was around the book cover. and why did it look so bad and dino beavers and it's kind of funny listening to this interview now because what are we talking about today acronyms again and you know future offices right and what they can and can't do right so it's just that part feels tired to me I don't think I was curious to

clarify any of that where like specifically where the black budget money went so I think I guess you could say I'm a little jaded about these recent disclosures but Skinwalker ranch is hugely fascinating to me you know aside from everything but that's my cursory glance on that I I will admit I was one of those people who went really hard on the cover and I regret it now because Because when I actually got the book, like in my hands, I'm like, oh, this is kind of cool. It's got like a retro, very simple feel to it, a little melodramatic, which is Skinwalker Ranch in a nutshell, in my opinion. So, Micah, yeah, what did you make of everything they brought forward in the book? And, yeah, yeah, kind of this issue that we have with the two programs.

I should first point out, I was the cover artist. You both realize that, right? I'm so sorry. I'm kidding. Oh, man. Oh, Jane, goodness. Ouch. You'll get to know my sense of humor, Jane. Well, actually, I did it. I didn't make any critiques of the cover, to be clear, since we have the artist with us right now.

I didn't do the art, by the way, at all. But I was following people's critiques of the art. You know, now, again, I think that there was some very important information in the book. And it definitely clarified a lot of matters. I should also mention my colleague and co-faccompliates. founder at the debrief, Tim McMillan, also clarified a lot of this for us, going all the way back to last Valentine's Day in an article he did for Popular Mechanics, where he helped us kind of break down some of the confusion and some of the ends and outs of, you know, which program was which, which one got funding, what were the names and why were the different ones. But briefly, to kind of recap what we heard James Lackatsky, who had been the program manager there,

and, of course, co-author of this book describing, what we had was the Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program. It was explicitly, according to Lakatsky, a UFO program, of course, UAP being the more popular term that the military prefers to use these days, and apparently everybody else. And this program, it only ran for a couple of years. But at some point, you'll note in that audio soundbatch you played there, Ryan, listeners at home, he mentioned at one point that this was not an official SAP is what he said. Now, SAP is essentially SAP or special access program. That's what he's referring to. And at one point, Lakatsky et al, and this, of course, you know, in reference to all those who were actually managing this program, one of the program managers actually with Bigelow Aerospace, Advanced Space Studies had been Coleman Kelleher, who also recently did an interview on the paracast where he spoke at length about some of what they found.

But what they were trying to do was they were trying to get special access program status for that program. And so in order to do this, they appealed to Harry Reid. and this is what's described in the book. Harry Reid essentially wrote a letter. They didn't want to use the Allsap name at that time because my understanding again is that that was classified at that time, so they gave it an unclassified nickname, which was atyp. We, of course, understand that to mean now Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.

But that nickname was later borrowed by an informal Pentagon initiative that was led by Lou Elizondo, who we all know and love. And, of course, the rest is history. But it was a little confusing in 2017 when the... New York Times first reported on all this, and they said there was $22 million appropriated for the A-Tip program. As Lekashki says, that's actually not accurate. The 22 million went to all SAP. It ran for just two years, didn't get the SAP status, and then, you know, it basically ended there. But again, the Pentagon's A-Tip program actually did continue thereafter. And again, iterations under

different names have continued since that time, known popularly as the UAP task force under the Department of the Navy. And of course, most recently, there was a proposed amendment to the Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 2022 that proposed an entirely different organization. But the one we got has the catchiest name of all time, the airborne object identification, management and synchronization office, otherwise known as the Oymusga. Oimuska, just what we've always imagined. I know. So easy and slick and cool sounding. Come on. we'll get there we will definitely get there but um for that point it's a buildup you know exactly that

the acronyms just get longer and longer um well kind i guess wrapping up the skin walker sort of thing i mean we have you know the show going on right now with the new owner of the ranch we have all these stories of what happened in the past we have these really crazy stories in this book about dino beavers and in shadow people and things coming in and out of portals and you know unidentified Celebrity Review with our good friends that Jane also co-hosts the show, Luis and Michael and rather, they had James Carion on, the former director of Mufan, who worked with Bob Bigelow for a little bit in partnership. And, you know, kind of, I would say, pushed back that anything truly anomalous ever happened at the ranch.

So you have James saying this, you have this stuff in the book saying that a ton of stuff happened. You have stuff going on right now at the ranch with the new owner, Brandon Fugel. So I don't know. I don't know what to make of where this whole Skinwalker Ranch story is going. Who's telling the truth? Who's telling their own truth, which is subjective at many points, and where that's all going? But, yeah, I thought this one was worth bringing up for sure.

So yeah, any last words on Skinwalker before we move on to NASA? I mean, I'm speechless. No, I mean, Skinwalker is just, it's like everything happens there, but then nothing happens there. It's just such a conundrum. And yeah, I don't really have, I don't think I can think of anything else. Yeah, I'll also note, again, in the book, there's some very interesting references to people who went out there. I mean, you know, former Navy servicemen and women, you know, people who had worked in other branches of government who had gone out there to the site and who had worked, describing that they came home and had this paranormal phenomena happening around their

house, it's difficult to know what to make of that. It really is. And again, you know, there's the side of me. I try to operate on different partitions on a single hard drive. I've used that analogy more times than I'm proud to admit, actually. But, you know, but the thing is, is that, again, there's that side of my mind that says, you know, we all could be children of the matrix and who knows what this is really all about. And then there's the side of me that says, and in defense of materialism, you know, let's look at the nuts and bolts.

So again, to summarize, Lakatsky said the program looked at UAP, but that it looked at all these tangent phenomena. It seems like there was a whole lot of weird stuff that they were analyzing and, you know, kind of tangent to UFOs. And that just seems to really, again, raise all the more questions about really what the nature of the phenomenon we're dealing with actually is. Exactly. God, it's just so that area. I don't know what it is. There's just something about it, whether it's in the air, under the ground, something truly anomalous is happening here.

So, hey, you know, I will follow that show into the ground, as I'm sure they will try to get as many seasons as they can. And hey, look, if a TV network is going to pay these guys to go do scientific investigations, I'm all for it. So, yeah, I look forward to whatever comes next in the next season of Skinwalker Ranch. But let's move to our new good friend, the now 14th administrator. of NASA, Mr. Bill Nelson. He's made some interesting remarks about UFOs recently.

So I'm going to go ahead and play one of those really quick. Again, these videos are going to get quicker, guys, I promise. And give us some context about his kind of developments here in 2021. What you've seen is what those Navy pilots saw in 2004. And there have been some 300 sightings since then. And I've talked to those pilots. and they know they saw something, and their radars locked onto it. And then all of a sudden it was here on the surface, and then it's there.

And they don't know what it is, and we don't know what it is. We hope it's not an adversary here on Earth that has that kind of technology. But it's something. And so this is a mission that we're constantly looking. What? Who is out there? Who are we? How did we get here? How did we become as we are? How did we develop? How did we civilize and are those same conditions out there in a universe that has billions of other sons in billions of other galaxies? it's so large, I can't conceive it. It was suggested to me by many different people. They did want your comment on what you think the fighter pilot saw.

I think most people saw that 60 Minutes piece, and there were a lot of newspaper pieces about whether or not it was Russia or China or perhaps more likely some extraterrestrial intelligent beings. What is your theory? You've heard a lot of options. Which one do you think is the most credible if you can choose? My personal opinion is that the universe is so big. And now there are even theories that there might be other universes.

And if that's the case, who am I to say that planet Earth is the only location of a life form that is civilized? and organized like ours. So yeah, a lot going on there. Interesting, interesting interview. But yeah, he's been very vocal lately on the topic. And of course, people are going to broach it when they interview him because what was it, the day after the report came out, NASA put something up on their website. I recall you covering this in an episode of the Micah Hank's program.

Would you mind commenting on what role you think NASA is going to play? what role they played in 2021 and what they might play moving forward with the topic of UFOs. Well, certainly. Yeah. You know, first of all, I'm a fan of Bill Nelson. I absolutely love his enthusiasm, you know. And if you read into his background, I mean, I would just tell folks please to, you know, go over to his Wikipedia page. You know, just read up on what Bill Nelson has done and how involved he's been with the space program for many years. I couldn't imagine a better person to be appointed to the position of, you know, administrator as he has been. Now, that said, it's obvious that he's also, I think that the indications we have seen, at least since his appointment under the Biden administration, indicate that he is very willing to speak out and be pretty elaborate in what he says about topics that traditionally have been somewhat marginalized.

And yes, we're talking about UFOs or UAP. Under Bill Nelson, we have not only seen that when they were leading up to the delivery of the ODNI report, he was saying, you know, I've asked NASA to look into some of this. But on the day of the delivery of the ODNI report, again, this being the actual report produced by the UAP task force under the Navy, but then that, of course, delivered by the director of national intelligence to Congress. and then a unclassified public version appeared at the website of the ODNI. That's the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. That same afternoon, NASA put up a fact page on UAP, and although it said in that fact page, while NASA doesn't actively investigate UAP,

we collect a whole lot of information on a whole range of different things, and with all that data, much of it, by the way, I'll mention, is available online. If you go to, I think it's NASA or earthdata.n.org, I believe, but in either case, the fail-safe method is just Google Earth data, NASA. And you can find some of the kind of information I'm talking about, you know, data that NASA collects via satellite systems and other kinds of informational systems around the globe and which it makes completely publicly available.

And so there are a lot of civilian researchers and also some NASA employees I've spoken to, Ravi Koppurapu, at I believe Glenn Research Center, I think is where he is, and others that I've spoken with who are interested in the idea that maybe some data NASA already has could yield information we don't know or didn't think to look for, you know, in terms of UAP and how that might actually be, you know, obtained. But Bill Nelson has more explicitly said in recent days that, yeah, you know, he wants to task NASA with looking into this program or issue and, and furthermore, to try and support the UAP Task Force or any other kinds of iterations it may take in government as, you know, he can. Now, Larry Sabato, by the way, who was with the University of Virginia, and by the way, again, that being Bill Nelson's alma mater.

So, I mean, you know, the portion of the video that you showed us there, that was kind of like a homecoming for Nelson because that's actually his colleges. I understand it. But Larry Sabato obviously had been prepared to ask that question, and I think Bill brought up the UAP topic and Navy pilot encounters before Sabato asked the question. So again, to have a NASA administrator who is as Nelson appears to be, That's great. I'm thrilled. And the last thing I'll say, by the way, even though he's got a hat on his head right now, is there's a striking resemblance between Bill Nelson and the bust on the hand. They're behind him. I had to put the Mets head on just for a little bit. Suddenly, so friendly with the hat. Name him Nelson. Call him Nelson, Ryan. Nelson. All right. Let's go with Nelson. I like Nelson. I like Nelson. I think you can keep him around. I got to get some Poindexter class.

for him if we're going to call him. I'll work on that. But we got to put some glasses on those eyeballs. Jade, all right. Hit us. You've looked a lot into NASA in the past on your channel and stuff. What do you think? What do you think of what they've done this year in terms of the UAP topic?

And do you hope they become a bigger part of this overall conversation? Yeah, I've been waiting for a statement like, Bill. Nelson's statement for NASA to just finally acknowledge that UFOs are real. When I first started discovering this phenomenon and thinking about it practically, I was like, well, if UFOs are real, then the astronauts know. And so my very early research was the astronaut sightings and learning about Edgar Mitchell and all his interesting belief systems, or belief, yeah, I guess belief systems, the late Edgar Mitchell. And I would cover, you know, NASA press conferences or things that they would say.

And it, I was just waiting, you know, for this year. So, because I made a note here, I was looking back at it. And in February 2017, so interesting, this would have been before, if my math is right, if my dating is right, this would have been before the big New York Times disclosure. or NASA said or a spokesman from NASA said, the time for finding ET life is now. Like the time for the discovery of extraterrestrial life is now. And there were a lot of foreboding or forewarning, you know,

statements about how, you know, if life is out there, it is ubiquitous and we'll find it. And so to me that said, well, they know it's out there. and so they know that eventually they're going to find it and disclose it to us. And so I do feel that NASA is a big part of the UAP equation. I thought it was suspect that they weren't included in the June UAP report. Right? But are all the members of NASA fully in the know?

I think that's definitely a question. I do want to remind people that there's a New York Times article where you guys can go and source this. I can share it later. But there was essentially a secret astronaut program that ran from the 60s to the 80s, so like moon landing to the 80s. It had over 30 astronauts.

You know, so did they have UAP records? You know, would NASA have absorbed those? So I think those questions will start to get some more answers now that NASA is in the conversation for sure. Awesome. I'm going to have to look into that. I wasn't aware of that astronaut program. Wow.

Really interesting. Yeah. Everyone in the chat is, they're all saying some good stuff. I want to just mention this one. Aaron said there was a UFO show on Broadway. I heard it was awful. Wait, that would surprise me. It would be a joke.

So I'm not sure which one he's talking about, but as for those who don't know, I'm a playwright in New York City when I'm not UFOing. And that's my goal is to get the first, you know, know, major UFO show on Broadway. I love Broadway. I say that with complete love. I would know about that musical if there was a UFO. Oh, for sure.

One is here. I love Onee. He's one of our very loyal listeners. Yep. Hello from your favorite bald scientist. Great chat. Thanks, man. Thanks for being,

he was just on Peter Robbins show recently. Yeah. Well, he's one of our mutual favorite people because, you know, ONA, I think very, very highly of. I actually gave him a quote for his recent book. That just came out. Yeah. Yep.

Yes, indeed. So, and I think I own, I think I own some form of, or some format of copies of every book he's ever written. So again, our bald scientist brethren is very, very well admired here in this quadrative space and time. Absolutely. One, put your book in the, link it in the, uh, the YouTube right there, my man. We would love to get the word out about your brand new book. Let's see. Just picturing a chorus line of ETs.

Deborah, I'm going to make it happen. I'm working at it and I'm working on it. Yeah, I love this. I love how big NASA is getting. They're embracing this finally. I think it's about time. I mean, look it. You could find NASA merch now at like every clothing store you can think of.

So they're almost going through like a rebranding. So why not get in on this whole thing? We want them there. And they should be one of the first to be talking about all this, in my opinion, in my opinion. Well, let's, real quick. And I also want to, I think it was 2016, NASA came out with all these posters that were, there were Mars colonization posters, right? Farming on Mars and like all the different jobs you could think, right?

So you're talking about branding and propaganda, I guess, that was building, you know, up from NASA, you know, prior to all of, you know, these disclosures. Yeah, it's time. It is propaganda, but man, they were beautiful posters, right? Yeah, they're cool. Yeah, they're really cool posters. Fantastic, yeah. Maybe next time we do one of these together, we three,

I'll switch out all the posters on the wall behind me with those, you know. Yeah, I should get some. Yeah, I should. I think, Jane, you know, they make them available in high-res format that you can download and print if you want. And so, you know, for those, yeah. And again, they're NASA. of products. So my understanding is that they are a work in the public domain thereby. And so you can,

for personal use, there's no restriction on just printing off those high res, take them to King Coast, put them on a jump drive, you know, or email them. Now you can email them and have those printed off and then frame them, put them on the wall. You've got a great new NASA look for the studio, ladies and jets. I know, I know. We all aspire. We all aspire to have that amazing background at the Micah Hank's program, for sure. Let's move on to our third. story for tonight, guys. This is probably one of my favorites, and I'll tell you why in just a minute. This was the UAP and nuclear weapons press conference that took place this year, hosted by Robert

Salas, who a lot of people in the UFO field know he was a, he was part of a Minuteman group that had a UFO sighting over a nuclear facility that adversely affected ordinance that was on the base at the time. And incredible story. incredible story. And he has made it his mission to compile a lot of these UFO and nuke incidents and have people come forward and tell their stories and testimony at National Press Club events. And he put on one quite a few years ago. And now this past October, October 19th at the National Press Club. And I'm going to play a short video, I promise, short video here from a guy named Captain David Shindale, a little bit about. A little

back story here. He was an Air Force launch control officer and deputy commander at Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota. He was involved in an incident in 1966 where kind of like Salas, a UFO was seen over Minot Air Force Base and took down the ICBM missiles, 10 of them. And what he says in this press conference, which we're not going to hear his testimony, but we're going to hear a little something he said after his testimony, because it's what really tugged at my heartstrings. He remembers distinctly all of the officers at the base as this was happening. A lot of them were like cowering in the corner. They were terrified.

They didn't know what was going to happen. Was this the end of the world? Were these aliens? Were these the Russians? What was going on? And he had to keep the, you know, the mindset of a captain at the time, a launch control officer to just figure out a. assess the situation and do what you have to do to make sure no one gets hurt or the world blows up.

And pretty dramatic story. It really affected him. Like Salas, he was told never to speak about this. And it really ate away at him for decades and decades. And you can tell as he's telling this story. He seems very nervous. But it was what he did at the end of his testimony that really caught my eye and made it very human. So I'm going to play that really quick for you guys.

and then get your thoughts on what you thought about this conference. So let me just pull this up here. Let's go. It is time for the truth to be brought out in open congressional hearings. This was in 1960. Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official security and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flight objects are nonsense.

To hide the facts, the Air Force. that silenced his personnel. That was in 1960, but six years after that statement, I was one of those that Hillen Carter was referring to as being silenced. His prophecy, that has now changed. I stand here before you today. I respectfully suggest that Odie and I take another serious look at its report, because I am willing to testify on all of this before a conclusion. congressional hearing. Robert Salas is very special to me. I wouldn't have come out and started talking if it wasn't for him.

I had been searching the Internet in later in 1990s trying to find information on my incident and seeing if there was any documents out there for anybody was talking. I didn't find anything and I gave up. In 2001, I found an article on the internet describing Robert Salas' incident. And when I saw that, I said, oh, my God, it's been verified. The incident that he had was almost identical to the one I had. And I experienced just a joyful freedom. And I finally was able to tell my wife my secret.

And so thanks, Robert, for helping me out. So, yeah, those last moments as a playwright, as a dramatist really hit me. I mean, you could tell, like, how much this affected this guy for so many years. Like, could you imagine, it's like I think of when all these guys at Skunk Works and stuff, when they first worked at Area 51, they couldn't tell their family what they were doing, where they were going, how long they'd be gone, blah, blah, blah. You can tell. This event really affected this guy, as I'm sure it has a lot of people. And a lot of people didn't know that this conference even happened.

Even in the chat here, people are like, what is this? What is this? Awaiting Alien says it's on the Robert Seles YouTube channel. So you can watch the entire press conference that took place in October online for free. And then I'm not kidding. I think it was a week after this is when we got the Gillibrand Amendment first announced. I'm not saying they were connected. but I think it was really good timing.

So, yeah, what did you guys think about this conference and just the entire UFOs and nukes topic in general? Micah, let's start with you. Well, on that note, yeah, again, it had been announced that that event was going to happen. I must, again, give credits to my colleague, Chrissy Newton, or Agent Newton, as I call her, who does more than just handle the media and the marketing side

of what we do at the debrief. Chrissy, in her own right, is as good a UFO researcher as any, and she's as well connected in this community. And, you know, she had actually, I think, been the first that brought to my attention that there was going to be another press conference. I say another because, again, if you recall throughout the early 2000s, there were several, some of which, of course, we had Robert Salas in attendance there at the National Press Club

where they were, you know, talking about these experiences that former Air Force servicemen had primarily throughout the 1960s, and this involving a couple of incidents. And I'll just mention, again, you know, what Salas experienced there at Malmstrom or Malmstrom, or Air Force Base. There was a similar incident, similar incidents, in fact, that occurred along many of the Northern Interior bases. One had been Mino Air Force Base and others. A great resource for information on some of those, one of the first really that reported, you know, widely on that, at the time, what were newly obtained documents via the Freedom of Information Act request, where the, or rather was the book called Clear Intent. It was republished under a different title of the UFO cover-up.

But that was by Barry Greenwood and Lawrence Fawcett. And that book, again, you know, it sources from documents from, for instance, the National Military Command Center that describe all the events that Salas and some of his fellow servicemen, former servicemen, are describing right there. But when that event was brought to my attention, I reached out to Robert Salas immediately. and I asked him, I emailed him and I said, Robert, you know, is there any way that we could talk about this in advance of the event? I'd like to have you on my show, the Micahanks program, but I'd like to also write about the event there at the debrief. And he said, you know, I'm not going to do a lot of interviews before this because the whole idea is to promote this, you know, and build up to that event.

But he said, but I follow what you do and I read what you write for the debrief, which was incredibly humbling for me. because I have tremendous respect not only for Robert Salas and for his courageous and frankly, I think, I mean, just unparalleled efforts to try and bring awareness to this issue. But I mean, to all of our service women and men who have put their lives on the line and occasionally experienced things that they don't understand as has become increasingly apparent in recent years. So, you know, very humbling not only that Robert would say, I read your stuff, but yeah, I'm going to do an interview with you. Can we just stick to certain facts,

but I would like to do this. And so not only did I speak with him, but then the debrief covered the event. And I was shocked Ryan to see only maybe two or three other outlets. Yeah. In the mainstream, even broach it. And to this day, people are still saying, oh, well, you know, what was that?

When did that happen? When did this guy get up there and, you know, tell these stories? What's this all about? Folks, this has been an issue for years. And in the Gillibrand Amendment, you're right, Brian, there was a provision that explicitly said that UAP incidents occurring around nuclear facilities need to be observed and need to be understood. If there is ever an instance within UFO or UAP studies that indicates a challenge or potentially a threat to national security, I couldn't imagine a better one than aerial incursions around nuclear bases where they're capable of disabling our ICBMs is what Robert Salas described right there.

So again, I have tremendous respect for the man and his courageous efforts to bring attention to this issue. It's just a shame that there aren't more outlets that are willing to broach that topic. Thank you. And good on you, Chrissy Newman or Chrissy Newton for bringing attention to it to me, for putting it on the list tonight. And again, to both of you for talking about it here on this program. Absolutely. And Mark, thank you for the super sticker. Really appreciate it, brother.

Jane, what do you think about the entire UFOs and nukes and the, yeah, do you think this press conference made any waves in Washington? I mean, that's why they did it there. And, you know, I know, our good. Yeah, I mean, maybe it affected people who are there literally in Washington who would be drafting an amendment, right? So I'm sure it had some effects, right? But I don't know that the general public or, you know, outside Washington really caught on to that story. as far as UFOs and nukes in general, that's kind of an interesting thing because here in tech,

if you talk about civilian reports or day-to-day reporting, that's not something I've encountered, really at all. And I think if there are sightings by nuclear facilities here in Texas, witnesses aren't connecting the dots that that's a factor, if that makes sense. So I probably have more work to do. But my guess is that those types of sightings are classified. So despite all the years of reporting, I've done, you know, here in Texas and all the videos and photos, there is, there is still a lack of that, you know, that compelling evidence that would convince McWest, right? And so I do think a lot of that is still classified, right? So that's one part of it, my observation. Then the other part of it is, though that testimony is the,

the reason that I do this. Believe it or not, it's not actually to prove of aliens or visiting or not. I don't know that I could possibly do that, even if I tried my best, or to convince others what to think, definitely want to educate and share as much truth as possible. But ultimately, it's to vindicate all those who have been told to lie or just not talk about their experiences and their truth. So that's always what drug. made me the most angry about the cover-up.

And so, yeah, it's just like what you were saying, Ryan, it's so poetic. It's such a beautiful way to end the story in some ways for some witnesses, because, yes, we're still looking, our aliens visiting. We don't know the answer to that, and there's a lot to come. But this is a new age where military members are being encouraged, at least it seems like, to actually talk about what they've seen instead of feeling shame or fear around it. So I think it was beautiful that that happened. Yeah, that's, I think that, again, that's what stuck with me most, exactly what you said.

You know, the fact that this guy was saying, like, I now had the courage to do it. And same with, you know, after Kevin Day, Gary Borhe, saw these guys from the Nimitz event, the pilots, Alex Dietrich and Fravor, came forward. it sparked so many more service men and women to come forward and tell their stories, which is, again, we couldn't ask for more than that. I think we are seeing a sea change in terms of the stigma shedding, which is what the UAP Task Force and Report kind of wanted to do for their own reasons, obviously, to report more UAP that could be potential threats. We're getting there. We're getting up to the acronyms, guys, I promise. But before we do that, yeah, I just think the UFOs and nukes topic, is always one of my favorites.

I wish it didn't ever happen, but it happens, and it has to be discussed. And if I may, Ryan, I'd just like to actually point out one thing. This is very important, again, another researcher. I mean, you know, we've got to recognize Robert Salas. I think a lot of researchers from over the years who have tried to bring attention to this. I mentioned Larry Fawcett and Barry Greenwood, and there are many others. But again, another one who really should be recognized for the work he's done is

Robert Hastings, who wrote the book UFOs and nukes. Yes. Some who keep up with Lou Elizondo will note that Lou Elizondo, and actually during an interview that Chrissy Newton, who can't be here tonight, so I've got to try and prop her up and reference her a good bit. But, I mean, Chrissy did a great interview there with Lou Elizondo for our debrief YouTube channel. And in that interview, she did a fantastic job, and Lou actually mentioned it even during the interview. But, you know, at one point he had mentioned that there was a lot of information that we wanted to try and find about the nuclear industry. incidents and he said, thanks to the research that Robert Hastings did, we were able to go back and corroborate a lot of the data that he, through the FOIA process, was able to bring to our

attention. Now look, ladies and gents, let me just point out to you what's going on here. We've got people in government who are looking at UFO investigations, okay, and incidents happening at nuclear bases, and where do they go to first, of course, get their idea for where they're going to begin their research, a civilian researcher who's used the Freedom of Information Act, and that process to appeal to government and to get information and to try and comprehensively present that and analyze and synthesize that as Hastings did in his book. I think there was a follow-up book too, maybe. But again, Robert Hastings is a fantastic researcher. I interviewed him a number of years ago, and I'm so glad to see that in the current UFO dialogue,

he's getting his doing proper, and more people should recognize Hastings for the work he's done with this. It even helped A-Tip, Lou Alizondo, Chris Mello, and some of the folks who have continued to look at this, You know, and it's all the more important that they do. So good on you, Robert Hastings, if you're out there. We appreciate the work you've done as well, my friend. Absolutely. I think he was featured on Unidentified as well. So, yeah, I'm glad to see finally he's getting what he deserves.

And that's the gratitude and thanks of many researchers like ourselves who are just, you know, building off of the shoulders of these giants, as our good friend Louisa Menez would say. But you did mention Luis Elizzo. Mr. GQ. This was one I believe Chrissy brought to us. No, that was me. It's okay. I think he's flipped our.

I'm flip flopped. Okay. Well, let's go ahead and talk about this. But I should preface this with, I was in London recently, and it just happened to coincide with a trip that Mr. Elizondo had there as well. So I finally got to meet him in person. It was an incredible experience. we walked all around London.

We went to the outside of the Ministry of Defense. One of us went inside. Take a wild guess who that was. Who walked right in? No questions asked. So bum bum. I won't go any further with that. But we talked all about just everything.

Some amazing stuff. Some of the conclusions or supposed conclusions that ATIP went to, came to, I should say. Hopefully Elizondo will be. able to share more about that soon. But one of the things he told me was the reason he was there. And it was to be interviewed for GQ magazine. And he told me not to tell anyone because he knew the shit he was going to get for it. And then it dropped. And I thought it was a pretty good interview. So I'm going to play a small clip from that interview. And then we're just going to get your guys' thoughts on everything Elizondo on the other side here in just a moment. So let me go ahead and play that for you here.

You know, you were working for the government for a long time. You then chose to turn whistleblower. Were you worried about repercussion? Why haven't they shut you up? Well, probably because I'm pretty public at this point. That's a multifaceted question that requires several answers. Let me, if I can, be as frank as possible. There is a strong undercurrent in our country of individuals in our government, particularly,

that know the seriousness of this topic. And what I've said before is this is not a topic that is similar to, let's say, fine French wine where the longer you keep a cork on it, the better it gets. This is a conversation rather more like spoiled vegetables in the refrigerator. And the longer you leave it there, the more it is going to smell. And so we should probably begin to address this issue sooner rather than later, because whether or not these are real, that's no longer up for debate. This is a fact. We're here, folks. The question is, what is it? Where is it from? What is its intent? And what can or should we be doing about it?

At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV. Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows and they were all free. The truth is out. It's just so beautiful. Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100, and the X-Files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. So, yeah, you know, it was about an hour long. You can find it on YouTube.

A lot of people in the chat are very divided on Mr. Elizondo, and I completely understand. That's what this topic is all about. People are very passionate. But, again, someone mentioned over a million views already on that interview. again, just getting the topic out there, no matter what you think about the threat angle or Elizondo in general. Hey, you know, I might take what he says about UFOs with a grain of salt, but he did give me some good marriage advice. So if anything, that's what I got for Mr. Elizondo. But yeah, what do you guys think of everything?

I mean, there's no denying. He and along and everyone involved with everything that's happened in the past few years, have changed the conversation of this topic forever. So Jane, let's start with you. Where do you stand? I know you were very careful when Elizondo first came on seeing. I remember a lot of your interviews and what you thought about it. Where do you stand now on Elizondo and everything he's doing?

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say like I'm on the Lou Elizondo Bandwagon. I don't know that I ever will be. That's, I guess, my protocol. You know, Ryan, I fully trust you, but I don't know that I'll ever jump on the Ryan's Sprig bandwagon, right? I get it. And that's not, it's nothing personal. So I think I'm still cautious.

Uh, I guess I feel more optimistic as time is going on. That seems like he's, Lou Alzando continues to reference the history of uphology. And my fear always was that that would get ignored and swept under the rug. And so I think I'm cautiously optimistic. I do think that there, I don't think that everything is completely organic, but that also doesn't mean it's malintentioned. So I think, I think I, that's where I sit. And then just the GQ interview, I recall reading the text article. And it's just the whole, just the fact that he's in GQ and everything that's happened.

it's just i feel like it's symbolic and then there was a lot there was a lot in the magazine interview that i think is we should keep in mind you know you because you know how little alizando is like he you know he drops his little um nuggets or whatever yeah um risa's pieces or whatever for us that's better i like that better us to follow so um and so i'll just say so real quick because i just i just i had notes because I reread it so it would be fresh. But just to recall, there's nothing really new that he's saying, but I think it's interesting he's saying it now and for GQ, right? So for the masses, right? Just reiterating that the UFOs are not from the U.S. talking about radiation burned, like the harm, like the injury, you know, from UFOs, he reminded people about

he wouldn't talk about his own UFO sighting or if we had beings or organic matter, but he did, he reiterated that, yes, I do think we, I believe personally, in my opinion, that we have recovered craft. He talked about close encounters of the third kind, being like a great movie, if you're going to, the most realistic UFO movie, which I thought was huge. And then he, and then this part, he talked about the royal family and how the royal family needs to be more involved in the UFO discussion. And, and, and they have. have curiosities about this too. So I think just keeping that in mind, you know, going into 2022, yeah, I mean, it's very much the same narrative. But I think, I think ending on the royal

family, you know, and he was in London, obviously, you know, makes sense, right? You know, that you would talk about that, but reaching out to the global community, you know, what does that mean. So yeah, that's my, I guess, summary. Summary. I don't really even a reaction, but. No, no. And I'm so glad you brought up the international angle, because I think that's a lot of what he and Mr. Mellon are doing right now is reaching out to anyone throughout the world who wants to get in on this and, you know, chat UFOs, try to figure this stuff out outside of the government. So, yeah, it makes sense that he's kind of globetrotting and making, waves and shaking hands.

And like I said, dude walked right into the freaking ministry of defense. Like, I didn't even see him like flash anything. They just were like, hey, what's going on, man? Now we know which one of you walked in. Oh, damn it. I gave it away. I gave it away.

I'm not 007. I promise. But yeah, again, the chat's pretty divisively when it comes to, Mr. Elizondo. But yeah, no, Jane, I think that would be cool if the royal family got involved. Like, that's kind of what they are. They're just like a symbol. And like, you know, they hold no true power per se.

But look at how many people watch those freaking weddings and the birth of the children and all the weird controversial stuff within the royal families. You know, the crown is one of my favorite shows. And I'm working at Diana, the musical right now, a musical about Princess Diana here on Broadway. So come see me, guys, in New York. I'll get you a drink. That's amazing. Yeah, it's, I could see it.

I could see it them being good ambassadors for this topic and maybe pushing some people in in Europe to take it more seriously. But I'm done. Micah, what do you think, man, Elizondo? I know you've spoken to him on many occasions and have been following his entire trajectory since the very start. So what do you think, 2021? What he's done?

And what do you hope they'll do next? Well, you know, I've only spoken with Lou one time at length. And thereafter, the communications we've had, you know, have been mostly elected. email or texts and things like that. He provided a quote for a article that I'll be dropping, I hope, tomorrow or early this week at the debrief.org. And this has to do with the newly established office by the DOD that's going to be looking at UAP.

And again, Lou has been very outspoken about that. I'll tell you a few things I like about Lou Elizondo. Lou Elizondo, when on every occasion that he and I have ever interacted with one another. He's always been incredibly respectful. He has always answered every question that I have. And I believe that based on the answers he has given in the way that he has given them, that he has always answered me truthfully. And when he first came on the scene as is naturally the case. And unfortunately, there's a lot of historical precedent for this, which in fact, Lou himself has addressed. And, you know, the unidentified program on history also addressed this to an extent. But

there's some precedent for why people who followed UFO developments are hesitant to get on board. And again, Jane, to your point, you know, kudos. I'm always careful not to start fan clubs. And I think a lot of people consider me just a curmudgeon or a skeptic because I kind of stand off to the side while everybody else is, you know, carrying, you know, the new emperor into town with his new duds, right, whether anybody can see them or not. I mean, I tend to be that person like yourself, Jane, who kind of hangs back, waits, watches, and sees how things go. But again, despite having, as most of the UFO community does,

those kinds of concerns going into things, I think Lou Elizondo has proven to be a person who is of noble character. And again, I don't want to just try and prop him up and write his autobiography or his biography. I'm sorry, I couldn't write his autobiography, could I? But again, you know, but the whole thing is that I do want to acknowledge a person who I think is a good person with good intentions, versus, you know, being a person who falls into that cult of personality, you know, almost worshipfulness.

And I do think, frankly, that there was a lot of that early on. I mean, there were the people who were like, this guy's just another, you know, problem. This guy's just feeding us disinformation. Then on the other hand, there was this almost like just, you know, this kind of just hero worship kind of thing going on. Messiah sort of thing. Yeah. And I mean, I'm like, he's a dude. He's a person.

He's a guy who wears a ball cap. He drinks beer like everybody else on Sunday nights and watches Jane. Fox documentaries. Come on, you know, he's not any different from us, except for he happens to work, you know, for the Pentagon, and he happened to be in charge of a portfolio that included, among other things, you know, aerospace threats of the advanced variety and those which the Pentagon still says it can't identify. But again, I can only tell you from my own personal experience. And I mean, I don't think I would say I have reservations about Lou Elizonda, but I have reservations about the government's involvement in all of this, which,

Again, Lou has expressed similar reservations. So I find myself as time goes on more and more increasingly on Lou's, you know, kind of wavelength as it relates to all this, especially if you haven't read his tweets from the other day after the announcement of the new airborne object identification, management and synchronization group, Lou has some other strong words to express about this. I think that everyone should take to heart what he says. But again, as time goes on, I have seen him to be not only a person of character, but also a person who's seems to share the convictions of folks like you, Jane, and you, Ryan, and me. And I think that he is a person who is as concerned about what's happening in this space with regard to UAP and the military's involvement with it as anyone else. Last point, and I promise I'll shut up,

again, if we go back and we look at the actual resignation letter when he actually left government, his resignation letter to then General Mattis seems to spell it out. He didn't feel like there was enough being done. And so again, I think that, you know, it's a lot of, you know, important for a person to not jump to conclusions, but maybe slowly form their opinion over time, as Jane outlined, doing. Don't form fan clubs, form a reasoned response over time, carefully and cautiously. But after doing that, I'm more and more pressed as time goes on, more and more impressed as time goes on with Lou Elizondo and the work he's done. And let's just acknowledge, I think he's done an awful lot for the community. I'd have to agree. And I'll just say this, dude smells good. I don't know

a cologne he wears, but he smells fantastic. I'm just going to say that. I know that's going to be the sound bite that people are going to rip, but whatever. Do you have to keep the marriage advice to yourself, Ryan? He gave me three things. 12 years.

I've been married 12 years today, by the way. Well, then you're clearly doing it right. I'm going to have to come to you for advice. Oh, no, I'll take advice still. Trust me. Well, we have unidentified celebrity review louisa menace in the house hello all he is joining us from universal studios so thanks man thanks for hopping in listening to us here um yeah we've got a bunch of the

ucr crew so thank you guys thanks for being here let's move on micah i know you have limited time tonight my man so you let me know i've got one more story before we get to jillibrand amendment but it's up to you we can go fast forward to jillibrand now or what do you think you know i'm putting you on the spot let me just put it this way sprague when the The call of duty is on the table before you. You know, well, I guess you do what duty calls for. And so here I am and therefore I shall remain. So let's just go.

I'm going to press on through tonight. Thank you, brother. See, I knew if I did this publicly, you'd have to stay. So I'm a manipulative guy. No strategy, gentlemen, gentlemen. Jane, don't ever let him pull this on you, okay? Watch out for this one. He's dangerous.

Oh, well, this one really caught my attention. and not a lot of people talked about it, but this comes from our good friend, John Greenwald, over at the Black Vault. In interview he did with the former CIA director from 93 to 95, James Woosley. And again, Mike, I know you've touched on this on your show as well, but James brought up a very interesting UFO encounter

that a friend of his had. And all of us kind of stopped in our tracks when we heard about this. So I'm going to play the clip really quick, and then we'll talk about this. and what role it might play moving forward with the intelligence agencies and UFOs. Let me find that. Here it is.

Let's go. There was one case in which a friend of mine was able to have his aircraft stop at 40,000 feet or so and not continue operating as a normal aircraft. What was going on? I don't know. Does anybody know? We'll have to look into it.

There have just been enough things like that that have occurred that I think there will be a lot of examination of what's going on over the course of the several months or maybe years, but maybe months ago. And obviously, you're talking about the secrecy around unidentified aerial phenomena. and UFOs. Can I ask you to clarify, were you using an analogy or were you being serious that you had a friend that had an aircraft of 40,000 feet that mysteriously stopped? I said, I had, I have a friend who had been in an aircraft, 40,000 is not crazy. I mean, that's just all your pilots looking at this, no, this is, that's not a, wild and crazy idea.

But I've talked to someone whom I respect who says that there was some event in which an aircraft was paused. And basically that's all I know about that. Wow. I mean, you're you're kind of blowing my mind there. I really didn't expect that type of a story. Paused airplane in midair? I mean, is this dude nuts or like what?

Yeah, I was told by a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend that this happened. But yeah, what did you guys think when John brought this forward? Whoever wants to hop in there. This is a pretty crazy dramatic UFO encounter, if true. Jane, go ahead, please. I hadn't heard this testimony yet. So I'm, I mean, the first thing I think of, because I don't have any dates or names, though, because it's so fuzzy. but there are some good pilot sightings and encounters,

and those are some of the most mind-blowing, right, where you have a plane that can't be found afterward, right, or things like this. It's what I wish I could think of a particular, there's a particular case. I want to say it's like Australia, but it's probably China or something for all I know, where there was a plane and there was,

And there was, I guess we could guess that there might have been, like a, I want to say like a flying disc or something was like sucked up to it or like seen attached to it by one witness. And then there was, you know, the separate. But yeah, I'm going to have to. That's a horrible rendition of that case. I'm going to have to look it up. But that's what it makes me think of, you know, what would what would halt a place? plane, something above it or below it that's the time warp bubble like Lou Elizondo talks about, right?

You know, objects aren't flying necessarily. They're moving things around them. So did this plane get caught up and some other UFOs travel, you know, a path? Bizarre. It's bizarre. And I'm so glad you mentioned that. I don't know if it was the second or third episode of Somewhere in the Skies very early. Micah, you were my guest.

The second, yes. And we talked in depth about the Valentich case in Australia. I don't know if that's the one you're thinking of, but. Micah, actually, didn't you speak to the girlfriend of the pilot that that occurred to? I sure did. Yeah. She and I remain in touch to some extent these days. You know, Rhonda Rushin, I hope I'll always be in touch with her.

Rhonda had been the girlfriend of the pilot who had missing. And I suspect I know the description that you're offering of a tangent observation about that case, Jane, because there had been an independent siding where someone said that they saw a flying saucer that appeared to have like a plane stuck to it or something. Yes, I think that's, yes, correct. And I think it was that case. But it was, it was like an incident. It wasn't in all the reports of that case. So I remember I found that just upon digging and I didn't know how verified that was trying to look for it now.

Oh, yeah, there's this, oh, sorry, it's playing something on my phone. I was trying to show you there's this like kind of crappy. I don't, oh, I can't see it on my phone. Oh, you can't see it. It's like an artist rendition of just that, yes. And so I don't know, you have these separate accounts and. wilds adds confusion into the fire, I guess. Certainly, yes.

I mean, you know, as far as the pilot angle on all this and what's being described, you know, by the former CIA director, I mean, in that interview with John Greenwald Jr., again, just truly an icon in this field, in my opinion, and one of my favorite guys. But John, I think, was as gobsmacked by that statement as any of us were. I don't think he'd expected that. Now, I'll just mention that, you know, many years ago, I was on coast to coast to a.m., late one night and this pilot. No, no, no, I'm sorry. I wasn't on. No, no, no.

This was not while I was on. I was listening to the show and Leslie Kane had been the guest. Yeah. I was on coast to coast recently and it seems that, in fact, actually, time before last that I was on the show, John and I were both on that night, just not together. They had John first and then me and I got up early so I could listen to John. And then I don't know if John stayed up late to listen to me, but I mean, I was, I, of course, am always checking out the entire thing. But now on this incident, or this instance, it was almost an incident, Leslie Kane had been a guest on coast to coast this particular evening. And this was years ago, I think around the time that her book, UFOs, you know, pilots, generals, and government officials go on the record.

And I was really interested in hearing what Leslie had to say. And so I tuned in and listened, and there was this pilot who called in from Cous Bay, who told this story about how in World War II that a pilot, he had been actually part of it. of a group that was flying, and this was, I guess, over Burma, India, I believe. And he says that they all, there was, you know, the primary aircraft and then the wing pilots and everything, and that they flew through this kind of cloud formation. And when they came out of the cloud, one of their aircraft was gone. Yeah. And he said that, so we returned back to base, and he said that we assumed that there had been a fueling problem and that the aircraft must have just lost fuel and had to turn back.

but we got back to base and that aircraft had not gone back and had not arrived before us. It was genuinely missing. So at this point, they actually dispatch a rescue crew to go out there and try and find the area where the plane would have gone down. Never any sign of it. And so this story, I mean, I stopped a recording somewhere because I've been monitoring the airwaves that night. And I thought this was so interesting. I started recording it and everything. And I actually still have that someplace.

And I always thought that was a very fascinating story. the Valentich case that you described there, Jane. You know, again, you know, Frederick Valentich was a pilot. He was a young pilot, only 21 or 22 years old, and he was logging his hours, had a, you know, a test coming up. That night he flew south over the bass straight toward King Island and never came back. But while he was flying toward King Island, he was in contact with Melbourne Air Traffic Control and said that there was an object flying over him.

And he just said that the object was kind of like orbiting him and that he was orbiting it, that it was producing a green light. And the last thing that Valentich said was that, you know, the object is Melbourne, it's hovering directly above me, it's hovering, and it's not an aircraft. And then there was about 14 seconds of metallic scraping sound, and then they lost all contact with Valentich. Rhonda Rushden, who had been his girlfriend at the time, I was able to get in touch with her because the listener of my program worked with her

and said, Rhonda would be willing to talk to you and talk about a dear person. And she gave me a lot of information that had not been published, I'll specifically say in the skeptical literature, which tries to argue that he either just crashed into the ocean or that he had a girlfriend on the other island and was sneaking out. I can assure you it wasn't the latter. And as far as that... What an excuse. Wow. Well, I mean, you know, and I asked Rhonda, I said, did any of the skeptics who made these assertions talk to you at all?

Not one. Of course. Right. Not one at ever spoke to Rhonda. Now, she was interviewed by the Australian Aviation Authority. and she had a very interesting remembrance of what happened during that time. But again, coming back to what Wolsey describes right there in that audio, you know, I mean, an aircraft being paused by a UFO.

One where incident comes to mind, and this is, of course, is the famous Larry Coen encounter from 1973, where Coim, his co-pilot and then the two other servicemen who are coming back from a medical exam. They're on their way, I think, to Mansfield, Ohio. They're flying a Huey helicopter, and they see this red light coming in from the, I believe it would have been the east. think. And as this thing's approaching, they think there's an aircraft that is on course for a

head-on collision with them. And when this thing gets in front of them, I want to be very careful how I describe this, because it's essentially a tick-tack, but they also said that there was a dome-like kind of a protrusion on the top. So it wasn't like a tick-tack, quite exactly, but it was an oblong-shaped object with some sort of a dome on top, and that as they're observing this thing, it hovers. And then it goes, and it takes off to the west, and it vanishes. right after kind of pass this this green light passes through and it kind of scans them they say in the cockpit at this point they look at their altimeter and they realize that their altitude is not what it should have been it's like they were moved by the object like when they were in close

proximity to this UFO coin and his company's perception of the event was that they had been moved by it and actually that their altitude had raised so it is interesting that there are pilots who describe these kinds of effects far more frequent and far less often and reported are just general electromagnetic effects, instrumental disturbance, even instrumental failure coinciding with near-air, mid-air collisions or close observations of UAP by pilots. And I've got to say that Ted Rowe and the NARCAP organization doing an incredible job, having logged those over the years, there's a lot of data on that, and I think that it really deserves more attention, and I'm glad that right now in the preliminary assessment that was delivered to the ODNI back in June,

one of the two main points really as far as all the takeaways from that document. One being, you know, UAP represent a challenge to national security, but the other being that they have, whether directly or indirectly, they represent a threat to aviation, both military and civilian. If, as, you know, the former CIA director told John Greenwald, or if as we observe in the Valentich incident, or if we observe in cases like that from World War II, you know, in a disappearing flight, if these have to do with UAP, there's definitely something

that wants attention. Yeah, and I think the Valentage case, I was just refreshing my memory. It looks like the Australian government looked into that and confirmed that he wasn't fake, it wasn't a fake crash. And then just to reiterate, so again, I don't know how verified it was. Because it was an unknown farmer is who purportedly saw a flying saucer hovering with a Cessna aircraft attached to it. And they even wrote down like the plane registration number.

And apparently it, like, matched up to things. Now, I mean, how maybe that was after the fact, you know, all of this somehow, you know, worked out. But yeah, just wild. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, bringing from Valentage up until today, I did an episode not too long ago about the 1952 invasion. You know, we had the wave in Washington.

But all around America, primarily. California. There were UFOs like crazy and Texas. Yes, thanks, Jane. That's why you're here. That's why you're here. That pilots were having close encounters with these things, even like motherships. And that brought us up until today and something that Mike has covered a lot at the debrief is this conference that happened with the FAA and, you know, civilian aviation. Again, the report was talking just about military UFO encounters with pilots. But now we're seeing that like the FAA is getting involved. Am I right, Micah, in that assessment?

Or yeah, what are they doing now? Did they have to report now too? Because I know they weren't before. Yeah, the FAA had for a long time said that they didn't, you know, investigate UFO sightings and didn't log information about those. In fact, actually, if you go to the website and there was an article I did about this earlier this year at the debrief, the FAA officially said if you see a UFO, you should contact Bigelow Advanced Aerospace Studies, right? Or you should contact local law enforcement.

But they say we're not really interested in UFO sightings. Now, when the preliminary assessment was delivered to the ODNI back in June, it stated that the FAA does supply some information to the UAP Task Force. And so I was very interested in what exactly that meant. And so I reached out to the FAA and I followed up with them. And I kept on the FAA for many weeks. And then they finally issued a statement to me after going through about three different spokespeople. And they said, yes, the FAA does collect information on.

And they still use the term unidentified flying objects, mind you, which is not unusual. Because, I mean, I know that UAP is more popular these days. But really my, you know, sense on all that is that they're essentially just trying to destigmatize the idea of UFOs or little green men. And by saying UAP, there seems to be this notion that that somehow legitimizes the conversation, and that's why I think a lot of people prefer to use that. But in my opinion, as far as I'm concerned, I have no preference. UFO is fine. The only issue I would take with that is that I'm not sure these objects are flying in any sense of aerodynamic actual flight.

I think that really a better way to describe what they do is they move through our atmosphere, and they may be able to move through space and move through water just as easily. and hence that term transmedium that we have seen introduced recently, and of course, which I think was really brought to a large audience by Tim McMillan's reporting there at the debrief right on the day of our launch. But all of that said, again, from my own part, I think that, you know, the FAA and them being reticent to acknowledge that they investigate this phenomena when in fact they do, it's understandable. The Air Force has done the same thing. No agency in government wants to have to be involved in this. FAA certainly does look at UAP, and what they confirmed to me was that they not only do,

but again, when a pilot observes something that can be corroborated by instrumental data, namely radar, and thereby there is some sort of an instrumental corroboration for a siding, that data is supplied to the UAP Task Force, and presumably will also be supplied to its successor, the AOIMSG, or the lovely name known as OIMASG. OIMASG. Wow. Great transition, my man. you have brought us up to the most recent news we're going to talk about in 2021.

Before we do that, Aaron DeSaria with a $20 super chat. Thank you, man. Thanks for the fun Sunday evening, cheaper than going to a movie. What a deal. I couldn't agree more, man. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Wow.

Everyone's been so supportive tonight. I really appreciate all of you guys watching on your Sunday night and do our two amazing co-hosts for joining us. If you are just joining us, we have UFO Jane and we have Mike. Hank's here with us. And we are covering our favorite stories from 2021, uh, in terms of UFOs. And obviously this is going to be one of the favorites, I think, of all three of us and many of you out there. And that is the Jilla brand amendment and the DOD group. We've got kind of a Godzilla versus Mothra thing going on here. Um, so I'm going to play another quick video. Our last video, I promise. And then we're going to dive deep to wrap things up here, guys. Give me warm.

one sec. Here we go. There's certainly something being detected on Capitol Hill, where some lawmakers are taking UIP reports seriously. A bipartisan amendment proposed in the National Defense Authorization Act would create a permanent office to collect and investigate data on the phenomenon across the military, intelligence, and civilian communities. It would also require the Pentagon to provide regular reports to Congress and more importantly to the public. particularly when it comes to sightings reported by Navy and Air Force pilots. New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand co-sponsored that amendment with fellow Senate Intelligence Committee member Marco Rubio, among others.

She says this is urgent, regardless of the origins of UAP, and recently told Politico, quote, if it is technologically possessed by adversaries or any other entity, we need to know. Bering our heads in the sand is neither a strategy nor an acceptable approach. So yeah, that's kind of just a tease of the Gillibrand Amendment, which I think is what a lot of us were really excited about. And then what happens on Thanksgiving of all days or maybe the night before I don't recall exactly. But we get this news that, and we should have been expecting this. Micah, you brought this up recently.

A lot of people have. And I was one of the first to jump all over this. What is this BS? The DOD is creating something to go against a Gillibrand? amendment, I can't believe it. Guys, they were saying this all along that something was going to come after the UAP task force, according to the DOD. So I have to admit that I was one of those people who got a little too heated and passionate

at first. But yeah, let's go there. What is the Gillibrand amendment? Why were people so excited about it? And why did people have such vitriol for this DOD thing after? Whoever wants to take that first? Jane, may I? Yeah, no, yeah, no, yeah, please do the Gillibrand Amendment breakdown. And then I want your take on the other side. So wish me luck. So the General Brown Amendment, you know, is a proposed amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act for fiscal year 2022 in the Senate version. And that is currently stalled. And there are a number of reasons why, but really kind of key. I think if we had to identify one primary issue, it is that Florida Senator Marco Rubio has basically blocked passage of the bill until there is an additional amendment provided.

with regard to some controversies, allegations of human rights issues, and even possible genocide occurring in a region in China. That's a very, very, very, you know, short answer for what's going on here with this. Now, of course, that has nothing to do with UAP, but I mentioned that because Rubio also co-sponsored another proposed amendment. And if you go over to the Senate's website and look at the amendment checkers, a spread or the amendment tracker, I guess, actually, a spreadsheet. I mean, there are so many amendments. I understand that there were, I think, 25 that the Senate had whittled down in their version of this bill that they were going to try and vote on until Rubio had said, you know, we can't move forward until we get agreement on this bill as well. And that's been essentially blocked both by Republicans and Democrats, not to get into politics. But I think that's an important thing to understand as we look at really what we're talking about here because as far as this Jellibrand Rubio Amendment as it has been referred to since Rubio also co-sponsored it.

We're talking about an amendment, a proposed amendment, that would seek to establish or to provide provisions that if passed into law would direct the DOD to establish an anomaly surveillance and resolution office, as Jill Brand's amendment terms it. As you can imagine, this, although it doesn't say anything about UAP, it is an office that would look at UAP. A few things that specifically are outlined in this rather elaborately worded amendment proposal are the not only a, line organizations that it calls for that would be able to carry out rapid response UAP investigations, field investigations of UAP. They're also looking for emphasizing UAP incidents occurring around nuclear bases, something we touched on earlier. There is an emphasis on the transmedium aspect of all this, not just looking at aerial phenomena, but I mean the wide range of different unidentified phenomena that occur land, sea, air, space, you know. And then, of course, also provisions, and this is key of importance in terms of transparency, reporting, at least in terms of an annual report to Congress, semi-annual briefings, and then also provisions for certain unclassified information to be provided that thereby may also be presented to the public in unclassified reports similar to what we saw in June with the report delivered to the ODNI. All of that said, this was only a proposed amendment.

We wouldn't know if this was going to be passed into law or not for some time. And now we may not know until 2022 because the bill has been stalled in the Senate. And my understanding is that plan B is essentially we're going to take this bill and try and send this back to the House and then basically get a House version that the Senate will vote on. Now, fortunately, I'll mention also that in the House version of the bill, there was a similar amendment. And this amendment had also proposed this known as the Gallagallago, amendment or this proposed by senator from Arizona, I believe, Gallego, or was it New Mexico? Oh, shoot. I don't remember.

I can double check and probably find out here. It's important to get the facts, ladies and gentlemen, only the facts, right? But this aspect in the House version of the bill also, yes, I'm sorry, yes. Let's see. Oh, no, that's not it. Actually, I'll find it here in a moment. But the Gallego version appeared in the House, and actually had been the first version that initially called for a Office of UAP investigations within government. And let me see here. Arizona, I think.

Arizona, yep, yep, there you go. There we go. There we go. So, Ruben's Congressman Ruben Gallego of Arizona was the first one to introduce this House version. So, again, the point is, is that we may still see

the Senate pass legislation, which has to do with the establishment of a UAP office within government. Now, the shakeup occurred on November 23rd, is everybody in Washington was going home for the Thanksgiving holiday, the DoD quietly made a announcement via a release at its website about the establishment of the airborne, gosh, okay, now even I can't remember it.

You did it so perfectly. Right, yeah, the airborne object identification, management and centralization group. There we go. You got it. Otherwise known as the AOL. Take a drink. Yeah. Take a drink.

Yeah. of that, right? God. So anyway, when they established this, one thing that was very interesting about that, and I'll note my colleague, Tim McMillan, co-founder, the debrief with me, and really kind of my right-hand man,

Tim and I, we keep an eye on a lot of things happening, not just in the world of UAP, and you couldn't ask for a better buddy and teammate in this space, but Tim privately messaged me and said, I think it's weird at all that like CNN and the New York Times and everybody covered this, but they didn't have much to say about the Gillibrand Amendment. And I'm like, yeah, okay, that's a very good point.

And yes, it did have the appearance of outwardly being an attempt to try and, and by the way, Zinza bill right there saying the longer the acronym, the more obfuscation and the purpose. Yes. Yeah, stole your thunder, but that's so true. My theory is, again, yeah, make it an unmemorable, barely pronounceable name, which is the very reason I've committed it to memory. They don't want people to remember the name. They don't want people to be able to have a name that rolls off the tongue so they can easily reference it when they're trying to talk about the nuanced aspects of government investigating UAP. That is not what they want. I'm convinced that that's the case.

Now, I'm not the only person who thinks this. Again, very shortly after this release appeared at the DoD website. Of course, we also had Lou Elizondo taking to Twitter, Christopher Mellon, taking to Twitter a number of people, taking to Twitter and saying, look, what this current office outlines is going to contribute to the kind of problems we have seen in the past in terms of issues of transparency, not moving us forward. and in the spirit of the kind of transparency that we've seen a glimmering of with the UAP Task Force report acknowledging, I mean, for the first time in decades, oh gosh, there are things in the sky that we can't identify. That's very important. Now, again, what are the real issues with the AOMSG and how does it differ from Gillibrand and Rubio's proposed ASRO? Well, first of all, we're not seeing any provisions about any kind of transmedium observations. They're only looking at controlled airspace over special access areas, or I'm sorry,

special use areas. Basically, we're talking about military-controlled airspace. They don't want to have this open to the entire civilian airspace. You know, I mean, that would be a lot to have to cover. Now, I spoke with Dr. Mark Rodiger, you know, again, director and scientific director, also for the E.J.L. and Hynek Center for UFO Studies over the weekend. And, you know, Dr. Rodiger kind of shares my contention that it may not be nefarious. The DOD's reason for one to, you know, restrict this judge.

to special use airspace. It very well may be that as we saw in the ODNI report, what they said at that time was that most of these aerial incursions by UAP occurred during planned military exercises occurring in this airspace anyway. So the UA, again, the DOD's perspective on all this may just be, well, this is where our military servicemen and women are encountering UAP. So let's restrict our investigations to that area, which rather than a restriction or a limitation, as many of times,

termed it. One might view it. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here, guys, but one may view this as being them saying, well, let's, let's narrow our focus to the places where we know we're seeing UAP. And there may be historical precedent for that. This comes back to the nuclear incidents, okay? There's nothing that we have heard about explicitly that says that the AOMSG is going to be looking at the nuclear sites and UAP incidents occurring there, like the Gillibrand Amendment called for. But one would have to guess that if we're going to be monitoring UAP occurrences around controlled airspace,

that this would also include military sites and nuclear sites, nuclear weapons sites and what have you. And in fact, there's historical precedent for UAP occurrences happening there, as Robert Salas outlined for us in Washington or this year. So giving the DOD the benefit of the doubt, one interpretation may be that they're not trying to say we're not going to look at the sum total of UAP, occurrences, we're just going to narrow our focus to looking at areas where we know they are

occurring and for which we have a lot of documentation that seems to support the occurrences happening there. But again, the problems are also, you know, extended to the oversight and the transparency side of this too, because, again, what we had back, I think, going all the way back to the summer of 2020 was a report from the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, which was saying, you know, we support the efforts of the UAP Task Force and if this Intelligence Authorization Act, which, Ryan, you reported on there for the debrief. That was one of your articles that you wrote for us. If this is passed into law and it ended up being passed into law, so good, good work, Ryan. But this went once it's passed into law, you know, this will allow us the Senate to direct

the UAP task force to deliver a report to Congress. And that's exactly what we got. So one of the concerns that we have about the AOMSG preemptively being established prior to the National Defense Authorization Act being passed into law by the Senate is, will we have those same provisions? Do we have any assurance that the Pentagon is going to provide data to Congress and to the people? Now, I reached out to the Pentagon in recent years, and Pentagon spokesperson Susan Goff got back with me, and she said, listen, we have every intention of doing that. there will be unclassified and classified data supplied to Congress, and we are going to be transparent. But again, for my own part, it's one thing to be told that by the DOD. It's another thing for it to have been legislated.

And guys, as is described in the preamble of the Constitution, you know, where it talks about we the people and, you know, what we want and what our government is supposed to deliver to us, you know, in terms of assurances for protection and defense of the nation. I want those who I elect, not the ones who are appointed who I have nothing to do with whether or not they work for me or not, the ones who I elect in Washington. I want those people to be involved in the process of appointing and directing what the DOD does. And that's why I support the Gillibrand Amendment. The big difference is there's one by appointment. There's another one through legislation, and we the people have a right, and we have the ability to influence lawmakers on that point. So if you haven't already, and if you're passionate about this issue too, contact your senators and your representatives and let them know.

You don't want UAP investigations by appointment with no assurance that there will be oversight and transparency. You want the assurance through lawmakers and legislation that this information will be made available to the Congress and that any unclassified data will also thereby be made available to the people. Because you know what? Yes, in that great tradition of Jack Nicholson, we can handle the truth. Absolutely. Amen, man. Yeah, seriously. I want to,

Cheers to that. Before we get to your thoughts, Jane, we should mention the big phone home to that took place this year as well over at the Unidentified Celebrity Review. This group has really invigorated people to reach out to the representatives. And, you know, maybe the defeatist in me of trying to do this for many years and trying to contact my reps, who always gave me the cold shoulder, made me jaded.

But it was these big phone home events that really got people passionate who never thought about this topic before. And it actually made a difference. We're getting responses by all of our reps now about this topic because it has been put on the house floor. It has been put in the mainstream media. I mean, Tim Burchett went on the house floor this past week

and said, hey, Pentagon, your DOD thing, it's bullshit, and we know it. So we want that Gillibrand amendment. Exactly. I don't really interrupt, but let me just point out something else, and this is very important also. Again, talking about reaching out to the offices of senators and congressmen and women, again, you know, I've done the same thing. And in fact, you know, now granted, my activity here is a little different because not only as a citizen appealing to my representatives, I'm also as a journalist reaching out for statements. But let me be clear, I reached out to every single a member of the Senate who has co-sponsored Gillibrand's proposed amendment, every single one.

I didn't just do it by email. I called them and I actually spoke to interns at their offices in Washington. And some of them spoke to me, but I didn't get responses from any office except for one. And the one office that did actually respond to me was U.S. Senate. out of New York, Gillibrand. And let me tell you what... And this is, I think, at a very important point that should be

emphasized, if you have any doubts about what senators think, because some may be under the impression that the AOMSG is, oh, well, this is what the senators wanted, right? So this is good. They don't have to worry about it. Listen to what Gillibrand's office said in this coming via Lizzie Landau, press secretary for her office.

Lizzie says, and I quote, while we appreciate DOD's attention to the issue, the AOMSG doesn't go nearly far enough to help us better understand the data we're gathering on UAPs. Senator Gillibrand and Representative Gallagos framework does much more to address the UAP issue while also maintaining public oversight. She continues. The legislation covers civilian oversight and establishes an advisory committee which would bring in experts and academics outside the government to participate in ongoing investigations. So there you have it.

I mean, even, you know, the folks there at the office of Senator Gillibrand are laying it all out there for you, reason I think that yet again we the people you need to contact your senators, your representatives, let them know what you think because they take issue with what's happening in Washington right now. I think we should too. Absolutely.

You hear that Jill O'Brien? She lives next door. I forgot to mention that. Thank you. Nelson will telepathically communicate it. Nelson, get on that, buddy. All right. It's going to work on that.

Jane, give it to a What do you make of all of this contentious stuff going on? And this is our last story. So we're going to wrap things up after that. We want to hear what you guys think, too. So put in the chat what you look forward to in 2022 with UFOs. But Jane, give it to us. What do you make of all of it?

Well, I support the Gillibrand Amendment. I mean, in the simplest way to put it. But there were three things in it that really stuck out to me. I mean, everybody was, I think, surprised, pleasantly surprised by the transmedium. a whole office just to investigate transmedium craft. I do think it's interesting the groups that would essentially have this new government job, right? Looking at UFOs may have helped to lobby for this amendment or supported it before. I think that's interesting.

People should keep that in mind. And then the other two things that really stuck out was the focus on the physiological effects of UFO. I could definitely see disclosure beginning with let's focus on the human experience, you know, things like radiation burns like Louelze under talked about in the GQ interview. And I think about how if in, you know, 2021, people may be familiar with the cashlandrum incident here in Texas where the witnesses, you know, experienced radiation symptoms and tried to sue the government, right, to recuperate the medical bills. If that were to happen now in 2021, let's say, or 2022 or this amendment's passed, right, or whatever, what would that look like? Would they have won that suit? So I think that's really interesting. Separally in the national defense bill, there is another section as well about anomalous adverse physical effects. So they are that, that's not an amendment. That's part of the foundational bills. I think there's a focus on that. And then lastly, there was a call to the, to, to, to,

tasks really the whole intelligence community with the disclosing UFO and data and information they have. So this is, in my opinion, super sweeping. It even defines intelligence community as it's defined in the National Security Act from 1947. So it's actually, it's reaching back to Roswell and trying to find the specific intelligence agencies and including them in this. So yes, does this DOD report, is just shoddy and rushed comparison in comparison to it. So I could see how they were working on all along. Then this amendment comes out. And so they're like, whoa, we better say what we're doing.

You know, right? So I get that. I'm still, again, cautiously optimistic about Lou Elizondo and that narrative. And I'm like, am I watching a WWE, you know, show right now? I don't really know what I'm looking at. But I'm definitely a fan of the Gillibrand Amendment. so well written, so detailed. You know, I think we could get to the bottom of it, you know, if that amendment were passed.

I mean, truly, and if people are truly transparent with the execution of it, right? Exactly. That's a very good caveat. Well, I mean, it's just, it's crazy that we're even having this conversation, that we have two different UFO organizations or groups kind of battling for supremacy. It is. It's like raw on Smackdown at Survivor. series for all my wrestling friends out there. I'm sorry. I had to go there, Micah. I had to go there. I'm rewatching all of WWE right now. I know. She's like, shut up, you two.

You can talk about Broadway again. I'll get all those. Let's go back to Broadway. Oh, man. No, you guys bring up so many good points. I don't even know where to begin. Let's highlight some of what the chats bringing up here before we wrap things up. 2022 really want public congressional hearings. We might get them. It could happen. One of my favorites actually, Rodrigo says, I want to be flying a UFO.

That's so true. I get our flying cars first. Yeah, exactly. Oh, Galileo Project. We have to mention that before we go here, guys. Avi Loeb and the Galileo Project, I know UCR just interviewed him. Debrief now has Mr. Avi Loebob writing over there as well.

So that I'm going to say right now personally, That's what I'm most excited about moving into 2022. Isn't so much Azro or the Galileo Project. In the scientific endeavors going on with whatever, trying to find, you know, techno signatures or all the other amazing things, the images that Galileo Project hopes to capture. That's what I'm most excited about. So I'm so happy the chat brought that up.

So what do you guys think? What do you think about the Galileo Project? and what Avi Loeb's doing. And can it find a place in everything going on in the UFO conversation? I'd like to hear what Jane has to say about that. But I'll first just interject a great kind of quote-worthy statement from Avi Lobe. He's made this many times. And that is the skies aren't classified.

And scientists should be training our telescopes and looking now granted. I've said this many times. And I've corresponded. I've interviewed Avi twice. and of course, corresponded with him and continued to correspond with him. And yes,

he's writing for us now to debrief. I mean, imagine that. Crazy. Like a year ago when we launched this publication that,

you know, Avi and that Leslie Kane and that Ralph Blumenthal would be contributors at our website. But, you know, I'm thrilled to have them. But that said, again,

I think to Avi's point, even if it's going to be maybe a little more difficult, I would say, nailing down what UAPR than just training our telescopes on the skies and trying to, you know, see one, I applaud and I and I fully support a Harvard astronomer getting involved in this because, again, I was talking, oh gosh, who is it

that I'd spoken to about this? Oh, it was Mark Rodiger when he and I were talking, you know, from the Center for UFO Studies. And he said, I just got to ask you. He says, you know, what do you think about Avi Lowe? Boy, he's a firebrand, isn't he? And he says, and especially if you think about the history of Harvard astronomers and their attitude toward UFOs, Donald Menzel. He said, Menzel would be turning over in his grave if he saw what Loeb is doing. But again, I fully support the efforts of the Galileo Project and Avi Loeb, and I welcome a serious American astronomer who's willing to interact with we, the little people who have been looking at UFOs now for decades, ourselves. I welcome his involvement. I welcome his enthusiasm. And I sincerely hope that

with his telescopes or any other kind of methodology he hopes to apply it toward this, that he finds you AP. I hope he does. Because you know what? Then it won't be withheld from the public. Then if Avi or anybody with Galileo Project finds it, presumably that information is going to be in the public domain as it should be, because we can handle the truth.

It's about time we do. Yep. And the skies are not classified, as Avi Lobis said. So, again, that's why I think the scientific endeavor is so much more important than just the government. in this national security threat. It really is. Yeah, but I wanted to do what Jane had to say, by the way.

Yes. Yeah, well, Avi loves an cool character. It's funny, though, because the Amuamua, that whole saga, I loved that that was a big news story. I guess for me, just getting people to even imagine that, that light that they saw that they thought was a shooting star could have been a spaceship is a big deal. People, it's, so Avi Loves done a.

really good job at awakening everybody's imagination in the Washington Cathedral. He said in the cathedral. He basically talked about God's plural or whatever, you know, in the Bible and, you know, and religious texts being aliens. And nobody booed him. So he's a very influential person. He's able to suggest, in my opinion, some really out. their concepts that, you know, the evidence is kind of murky about. So it, but he has a lot of

credibility when he talks about it. And so I think, I think we'll wait and see. Let's see what the Galileo project does. Let's see if he's able to escape signing an NDA. Like, you know, like he says, you know, how much is it, you know, here he is already part of this government amendment going into this. I'm a public, you know, transparent investigator, right? So already it's getting murky in my opinion. So I think he might be tested and as any of us would be, I think, in his position. So I'm, I'm very excited about it, but I'll wait and see. Wait and see what they come up with.

Wait and see. Welcome to Uphology. The drama continues. Yes, it never ends. It's amazing, guys. Well, I'm just going to end here. I'm going to let you guys go. You have done way more than I could have ever asked for you. But I'm going to read some of what some of our followers over on Twitter want in 2020. But I want to thank everyone in the chat for coming tonight. I want to thank Micah for coming and filling in for Chrissy.

I couldn't think of a better person to do so. We will have her back on soon. She really wants to do another show, Jane, with you. Yeah, I miss Chrissy. Yeah. Me too. We will make it happen. Absolutely.

I do want to let people know. So on the Bill Nelson and the Washington Cathedral chat, this Friday, Jess Rogie will be joining me live on YouTube. We're going to be bringing back Weird Hollywood. So if people recall, Bill Nelson mentioned Armageddon, the movie Armageddon, because they're sending out a craft. It's actually in orbit right now to do a similar. The art mission. Yeah. So we are re-watching Armageddon, but we'll be also breaking down some of this national.

stuff again this Friday evening, 8 Eastern, 6 Pacific, 7 Central. I know we're all right. Right. Okay. I'll be here. I think that's right.

But Friday evening live, but we just figured that out and it's so relevant. I had to throw that out there for both. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And I look forward to seeing Ben Affleck putting, what was it, Bram crackers on what's her name again?

Yeah. Oh, man. I'm excited to rewatch. That's amazing. Well, yeah, before we go, guys, please let us know everything you're up to. I know Micah and I just did an incredible roundtable over at Jim Herald Show.

So that should be coming out in the next few days, maybe week or so. A lot of fun. Peter Robbins was there. Chrissy, or excuse me, not Chrissy. Christina Gomez was there with us as well. Kind of like this. We talked to all about 2021.

So be on the lookout for that. But, yeah, Micah, before you go, man, let us know where we can find everything you're up to and what comes next for you over at the debrief and Micah Hank's program. Well, certainly. And, of course, be on the lookout for Ryan Sprague, because I believe he's going to be joining me for a roundtable over there on the Micah Hank's program, my podcast. You know, around the holidays, I like to do roundtables. And that's definitely something that Ryan joins me for pretty frequently.

You know, Jane, we've got to get you over there sometime too, because I've been looking forward to us being able to finally talk, and tonight that has happened. So I'm just going to check that right off the bucket list, okay? But yeah, I hope it won't be the last time. And, of course, if anybody wants to follow me online, you know, I mean, all the information is right here at Micahanks on Twitter. Micahanks.com is the website.

And don't forget, of course, about the debrief.org, which is where you can find all the reporting provided not only by me, but, of course, Christopher Plain, Tim McMillan, M. J. Benayas and a cadre of other authors that include from time to time, Avi Loeb of Harvard University, Ralph Lumenthal of the New York Times, Leslie Kane, UFO veteran reporter, also the New York Times. Ryan Sprague, I mean, if all the names that I've named haven't already dropped your jaw, then that one certainly should. Ryan Sprague is a pretty regular contributor over here at the debrief.org as well. And I'm very glad to have all of the aforementioned as a part of what we do. And of course, I've got this article.

If you're wondering now what this current state on this Gillibrand thing is with regard to that versus the DOD's AOMSG. I've got an article that's coming out this week that I'm confident is the most comprehensive look probably that we have seen yet on this that has been reported anywhere. I mean, I reached out like I mentioned to every office of every senator who has co-sponsored the legislation, scientific organizations, universities, the DOD, itself, also former defense officials, Lou Alizondo has chimed in. I mean, there's a helpful lot, and you'll see it all there at the debrief. Thank you, Micah. And thank you to Aaron and Deborah for the super chats. I do want to read one more thing here. Micah, Voice of Butterhanks is how we're going to sign you off tonight, my man. So, Micah, thank you. I appreciate everything you do for this community and everything you do for me and

everyone out there at the debrief and at your show. So thank you. Have a great night, brother, and happy holidays. We will talk to you soon, okay? Thank you to you both. Madam Jane and Mr. Sprague. Thank you both. And thank you for what you do for this community.

Ryan, you are a very necessary voice. I hope you will continue to be for many decades to come, sir, or at least as long as it takes to end the truth embargo. As our good friend, but is always, say good night brother i love you both i love all you guys out there so you guys take care have a wonderful evening and happy holidays bye bye micah oh that's awesome yeah just amazing i followed micah forever and i've never gotten to talk to him so that was awesome oh my god that's it see just bringing the voices and the minds together jane i know micha's one of my closest friends we've done

money conferences together we traveled the the world together at this point but I still get nervous when he comes on because I know. That brain of his. The recall, like, does you do you have a teleprompter? How did you know what UFO case I was talking about? He's a walking. It's amazing. Yeah, that was incredible.

Thank you, Robert. We will. We'll have to start doing UFO Jeopardy. Yeah. But Jane, you mentioned you're bringing back UFOs in Hollywood, but tell us all about everything else. You just, it's amazing how far you've come in this field since I first met you and since I had you on the show. You're my very first interview ever.

So it's so crazy to be here. UFOs are officially real and so much has changed, you know, from when we first met. Yeah. And so it's exciting. I'm excited for this next year, the 23 minute video that Lou El Sando keeps teasing. the Galileo project. The triangle photo. Yeah, all of it.

I think it's going to be an awesome year. And robots too and all the things around it, right? So it's, you know, it's multifaceted. So it'll be. Yeah. This is a great end of the year celebration almost. I'm sure some things will happen before. I know.

Before we get to. I know. It's not quite over yet. Our favorite story might still, of 2021 might still come out. It always happens in like December. It really does. So we might have to have you back soon to do that. But of course, before you go, Jane, please tell us where we can find everything you're up to.

Yeah. So, yeah, like I mentioned this Friday, Weird Hollywood, that's where we watch a movie. But then we break down the real behind the scenes, the real plot points. And so with Bill Nelson's telling us to watch Armageddon, so we watch that. But yeah, you could search you a photo. Jane on YouTube or all the social media. And if you're in Texas and interested in local sightings here, there's Texas UFO sightings.com. And then the Texas UFO's Facebook page, go interact over there.

Awesome. Again, I have to thank you for doing this such short notice. I think we covered a lot. This is great. And there's so much more we could have covered. But there will be more stories to come, I'm sure, in the coming weeks and months into 2022. So once again, Jane, thank you for joining me on summer.

in the skies and happy holidays to you and glurp in the whole family you too thank you everybody all right take care amazing guys i this could not have gone any better i'm so happy that michael was able to hop in we will have chrisie newton back very soon um to talk all about UFOs and uh some really interesting exciting stuff that her and i are uh getting up to in 2020 we're going to get ourselves is in trouble in the UFO field, and we can't wait to share a lot of that information with you, hopefully very soon. But before we go, I did want to read some of what are Twitter followers over at SomewhereSkies, if you're not following us on Twitter, head on over there at Somewhere Skies and Instagram at

Summer Skies Pod. But I wanted to read a couple of these for you here. Shadows of your mind on Twitter said, I'm looking forward to more nations getting involved in the conversation in starting new projects and collaborations. And I couldn't agree more. I think a lot of that is going to be seen. And this community is just growing every day. And I think it's incredible.

So, yeah, I'm with him on that. Rather be quitting on Twitter said that he's looking forward to Astro and A.O.I.M.S.G. They're great. But I don't think we'll see anything from them in 2022, which he's probably right. I'm hoping for leaks. Wasn't it Rubio who suggested we get leaks from the UAPTF? classified report way back this summer. I'm still waiting, man.

I'm waiting, rather, for those leaks. So you let me know if they send anything your way or over at the debrief. I'm sure the debrief would be one of the places that they would leak that. They did leak us a lot of the very early UFO videos to come out this fast year, along with Jeremy Corbell, who's done incredible work as well. Ricky Caricus on Twitter says, I want public hearings and thoughtful questions. more lawmakers being exposed to the issue and dare I say subpoenas.

That would be really interesting if we got subpoenas in Congress for UFOs. And last but not least, Michael G on Facebook says the necessary and uncomfortable shift we are going to have to make from a reductionist and materialist worldview to a selectionist and idealist worldview. That is a lot to ponder. That's pretty heavy to end the show with. But Michael, thank you for contributing that. I want to thank everyone in the chat for the super chat, super stickers, and for all of your questions and comments tonight. It's been just more than I ever could have asked for for our 2021 wrap up here.

Again, thank you to Micah and Jane and everyone here. Have a very happy holiday season. Our good friend here, I forgot his name already. Someone tell me the chat. Nelson? Was it Nelson that we named? named him. Nelson says, happy holiday season. I've gone

off the rails. We're going to end things here, guys. You can find everything I do at somewhere in the skies.com. If you want bonus content and material and free merch, head on over to our Patreon campaign, patreon.com slash somewhere skies.

And I should mention for the entire month of December, half of our Patreon contributions and all of our merchandise sales are going to the Women's Refugee Commission, a wonderful organization here in New York City that helps displaced women and children and youth find the necessities they need to survive as refugees here in America. So again, all of our merch sales will go to that this month and half of our Patreon contributions.

If you want to learn more about the Women's Refugee Commission, just Google them. You can find out everything they're up to. and yeah, I would really appreciate it. And also help the show as well by getting the word out with our merch. All of our merch can be found in the links in the show notes as well. And with that, thank you guys. Thank you for being here. Have a wonderful morning, night, day, wherever you are in the world.

Keep looking up. And as always, keep your feet on the ground, but never stop searching somewhere in the skies. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with the Entertainment One podcast network.