Somewhere in the Skies - UFO Happy Hour!

Episode Date: August 6, 2018

On episode 68 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, Ryan is joined by Rob Kristoffersen of the Our Strange Skies Podcast. They pull up a stool at the cosmic watering hole, crack open a couple beers, and let it rip. From skeletons and mummies being touted as aliens... to the dated and inaccurate Air Force-appointed acronym of "U.F.O"... to their thoughts on the new History Channel television series, Project Blue Book, which both praises and completely botches our "UFO Dad"; J. Allen Hynek.  Round two of drinks finds the guys answering listener questions with brutal honesty. What do they really think of Billy Meir? What cases do they wish they could personally investigate and what conclusions would they come up with? Did aliens really ask a chicken farmer for jugs of water, and in return, cooked him some pancakes? And what do they think is the biggest misconception when it comes to the UFO topic and study of it? Sit back, have a drink, and join us for an uncensored and unapologetic booze-fueled romp as we explore the mysteries somewhere in our strange skies!  Guest Bio: Rob Kristoffersen is the host of the Our Strange Skies podcast, and has been an amateur UFO researcher/paranormal investigator for nearly 10 years. He has been a lifelong resident of the Adirondacks and has had an interest in the paranormal from a very early age. When he's not investigating incidents of high strangeness, he can be found indulging in his love for professional wrestling, music, and good writing. To learn more, CLICK HERE Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com Official Store: CLICK HERE Order Ryan's Book by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte Closing Song, "Take Us To Your President" by Jim Lowe SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with eOne Entertainment SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is sponsored by HelloFresh. To receive 50% of your first order, use promo code: SOMEWHERE50 at checkout by visiting www.HelloFresh.ca Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Terms apply. Way. A Lego set is a gift that always clicks. And clicks. Mom, look. It's so beautiful. And clicks. For every nature lover, choose a Lego set. A gift that always clicks. Hey, y'all. Ryan Spreck here. As you all know, the Somewhere in the Sky's podcast is always free to consume. But it isn't free to create. That's why I've started the Somewhere in the Sky's Patreon campaign. On a monthly basis, you will. give what you think the show is worth, you'll be helping the show continue, grow, and to be something truly communal. And remember, there are rewards for each level of contribution, and the list is only growing. So please, help Somewhere in the Skies now by becoming a patron. To contribute and to learn more, visit www. patreon.com backslash somewhere skies. Thank you for your support. And now on with the show.

Welcome to the UFO Happy Hour, featuring Rob Christofferson of the Our Strange Skies podcast. Here's the thing about that case. That case is charming as hell, as opposed to Billy Meyer, who is not charming in the slightest. Joe Simonton, I would listen to that man if he was still alive today. Tell me all about his alien pancakes. This is somewhere in the skies with Ryan's bread. We are tipping back a few brews, and we are just going to chat. the nightaways we've got some listener questions that we're going to answer and today i am so excited

to be doing this with my good buddy my colleague and my fellow podcaster rob christopherson of the our strange skies podcast rob what's going on my man not too much you know just a just a chill night kicking back some bruise talking about UFOs uh so thanks for having me on man thank you thank you so much what are you drinking tonight uh i am kicking back a hearty bottle of labat blue my beer of choice. Oh, I love it. You know, not many people know LaBatt outside of, you know, the East Coast and Canada. So to hear that is just, you know, making my heart warm up, my man. Yeah. I mean, everybody goes to Budweiser in America, but LaBat is like Budweiser, but a little bit lighter. So you're not like kicking your butt by like eight o'clock at night. So that's why I, that's why you go with LaBatt. It's great. It's so good. And it just, you know, it reminds me of home so much. I miss New York, and I was home for a few weeks recently. And that's all I drank was Labatt.

So it tasted good, tastes like home. And I'm very jealous right now. I am getting a little fancy out here in Los Angeles. I am drinking. This is from Modern Times Brewery right here in L.A. It's called Blazing World. I thought that was very appropriate for tonight. It's an Amber L.

little fruity, little hoppy. A lot more hoppy for an ale, to be honest. I thought maybe it was an IPA, which I usually hate. I like the darker stuff. I like the ambers. But this is pretty good. So I'm going to go with this. You know, it's 95 degrees here.

I'm recording in my mini studio, which many people know is just my closet. So to have a nice cold light beer, I think that's a perfect way to get this thing going. Absolutely, man. So we decided to do this. because, dude, we talk off air so much about our grievances with things that go on in the UFO field. And if there's one thorn in the side that has been bothering both of us, I want to get this out of the way before we get to the listener questions, which I think is going to be really fun. But we're going to have what I'm calling a mummy slash skeleton party right now. So let's take a drink and let's prepare for this.

So let's start with the 2003 case. This is the Atacama skeleton. How much knowledge do you have on this one, man? Because I remember when this first started, and I remember when the first images started going around about it. And I will admit, it was extremely compelling and pretty interesting. But then I saw who was connected to this case. So what do you know about our little Atacama baby here? So it was discovered in 2003, it was in a Chilean town near the Atacama Desert.

It was found by a guy named Oscar Munoz, and he ended up selling it to a Spanish businessman. And eventually there were people that got wind of it, one notable individual, Mr. Stephen Greer, who, how do we, we're not fans. Let's just put it that way. We're not... Sorry. I'm going to have to clean that up. You were saying? We're not fans of this individual, but on one of his documentaries, what the heck documentary was that?

It wasn't the latest one. Serious. Yeah, it was serious. And let me tell you, he was seriously talking about how this thing was an alien. Nice pun. Yeah. Well, I mean, no matter what, I mean, you're a scientist and in the biologies.

Yeah. It's this is, we know this is an organism. It's not matched up to any primate, any ancient commonate, any modern primate, any thing that is known. So it's an unknown. So that's what discovery is about. And so, you know, the point I make to people is that so let it go where it goes. I mean, it's a short skeleton. It's only, I think, like 15 or 16 inches long.

Yeah. And eventually, Gary Nolan and his team actually did DNA studies on the skeleton. They found it to be, you know, human because we've never had alien bodies. I don't believe we've ever had alien bodies. And it certainly didn't look alien to me. It just looked like a child that obviously had some problems, some deformities of some kind. And now Gary Nolan is under fire for testing the skeleton. and it's DNA because they went about it unethically,

and this thing is just a disaster all the way around. Absolutely. You know, and the thing is, this thing has been haunting us forever now. We thought it was kind of done. And now, you know, once they sort of, I'm going to put that in quotes, definitively said this was human. This was a stillborn of a female. Stephen Greer and his cronies, they refused to give up on this thing.

You know, they said, we got to give this thing back. Like, this is so unethical that we keep doing this. And Greer went so far as to say that this was a cover-up within the scientific community. Yeah. Dude, this is disgusting. It's immoral, and it's just plain stupid. I can't even believe that this is up for debate in the UFO community still. And I can't believe people like Carol Sue Rosen promote Greer's actions with this thing.

You know, I used to respect this woman. And to see that she's doing this, it just, it disheartens me so much. Yeah, because it precludes the fact, like, we need to stop dehumanizing whatever we find in archaeological digs in order to get us to that next step where we think we discovered alien life. It is one of the most disgusting things I have ever come across. It is highly unethical. And it just gets my blood boiling. It's a 200-year-old skeleton of a stillborn child. And let's be honest, to begin with, Gary Nolan thought this thing was eight years old.

Like, what? What would make you think it's eight years old? But there was a recent article. It just came out like a couple days ago, and I forget who put the article out. out, but basically saying, like, you can look at features of the skeleton and say it's 100% human. It's a child. Like, what are these people thinking? And this is not the only case of this.

I mean, oh, God. Right. There are two others. 2003, this is when this sort of started. So we learned our lesson, right, Rob? We would never do this again. No, no. We didn't learn our lesson at all.

of course we have the Peruvian mummies that were recently discovered. I forget how long ago now, maybe a couple years ago now, that had deformities. They had three fingers and I believe three toes. And they had supposedly elongated heads. And for the longest time, they're touting these as alien mummies. Alien mummies. Nuska, Peru. And so, yeah, that was, I believe it was either the talent of 2016 or 2017, maybe, even early, when this came about.

And so who was first connected to this? Because this guy is going to come up in our next one as well. Our favorite person from Mexico City, Mr. Mr. Jaime Muson. My name is Jaime Mausan. I am an investigative journalist, and I've been working as a journalist for the last 47 years of my life. Can you hear them? He's one of your favorites. He's one of your favorites. I know he's one of your favorites.

That's the sound of 7,000 people clapping for him at his be witness event. But we'll get to that in just a minute. So the NASCAR Peru, Mamirab, this, what they sort of deduced from this, and I know there's still tests being done. on this, they believe that this was almost an amalgamation of different body parts from different mummies that were infused together. If you look at the photos of this thing, it's got like this white, powdery plaster over it. The mummies are covered completely in this white dust, but it's not just white dust. It's something that is going to really dry the skin and the skin will be.

able to survive for so many years. And they say this is what, you know, is masking that different body parts were put together. So whatever this thing is, it seems like there were, you know, grave robbers who kind of took piece by piece in Legoed this thing together. Maybe hoping someone would find it someday and someone did find it. And I know that Jaime put a lot of money into this, you know, to get the thing. But again, we are dealing with the remains of human beings. and touting this as aliens.

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It's ridiculous, man, because like, and I mean, like, it wasn't just, hi-me, it was Gaia.com. Gaia is completely committed to the story. We're going to let you know if it's human, if it's non-human. Like I said, our whole mission is just pure curiosity. What could it be? And to honestly give a journalistic approach to that, that is our mission. And that's what we hope to bring to you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. The documentary series of documentaries about it and it's just like, did you guys even bother to like go through genetic testing

before you just touted this thing is an alien? And that frustrates me more than anything. That's not even good science. That's not even science at all. It's just speculation. Exactly, yes. And for a price, you get to follow, you know, their discoveries as they make them.

This is just the beginning. This is not the end. Not even with the samples. There is so much more to come. News slash, it's body parts from humans. Okay, so the most frustrating one out of these for me, man, was actually a couple years before the Peru mummy. And this was drum roll, preys.

The Roswell Slides. How nostalgic at this point. Yeah, right? So, this sort of started almost a year before the quote-unquote Roswell Slides. came out when Mr. Tom Carey, one of the original investigators most well known on the Roswell

case, said at an event, we have a body. Yeah. We have proof. So this kind of went under the radar, but I remember reading about it, and I was like, holy shit. What? What? He's just going to leave us hanging like that? And

that really got the UFO community buzz, you know, that Tom Carrey, one of the lead investigators on Roswell was saying that we have a body. And then it kind of went silent for a while. Do you remember that? Yep. Yep.

They didn't, nothing, nothing came out. And then, oh, God. And then it all came out. Yeah. Well, for one thing, okay, let's just, let's just describe this, this photo of this mummy. It's under glass, clearly under glass. It's also in a museum.

You can tell it's in a museum. And I don't get where the alien portion comes. It's like even if you go on the description of the bodies that were supposedly found at Roswell, it is way too short for that. Right. Exactly. Well, okay. And even, like you said, under glass in a museum with a placard. Yeah, placard.

And you could tell that the placard was, I believe it was rearranged or moved so you couldn't actually see what it said. Because in the photo you can see that it's just white. There's nothing you can discern from it. So obviously that was moved. But, Carrie, what are you thinking, man? Like, you just shot yourself in the foot. Like, the guy, one of the guys that gave us the essential timeline to Roswell. And you go and you present crap like this, your credibility is down the tubes.

And for me, like, Roswell is one of those things. Like, when somebody asked me to recommend them a book, Like, you give them the starter book. Like, you give them something that, well, maybe what their whistle or something like that. That's kind of what Roswell is. Because there's so much crap to Roswell, so much controversy that it's almost a joke now. At least it is to me. I mean, there may be some people that are finding new avenues and stuff.

Like, Nick Redfern's stuff is great, right? You know, it's an interesting theory that, you know, is completely plausible. But I think, like, the Roswell thing, we just, people got to stop acting like they found the new hip thing. We found the bodies. Like, no, we haven't. Stop it. Yeah. Well, here's the thing, man.

Like, so this whole debacle went down. Jaime Mousan rented out this huge auditorium. And it was Mexico City, right? Yeah. Supposedly there were 7,000 or so people there. He packed the place because he's really, he's a celebrity there. And he said that. they had an alien body. They had definitive proof that they found the Roswell alien, and there's

proof, done, boom. Be witness. Witness, witness the change of history. Hiring your pay-per-view servers now so you can enjoy the biggest event of all time. Hyman O'Sung breaks to you the evidence that extraterrestrial beings and the UFO phenomenon are a reality on our planet, and that in 1947, people who came from the depths of the cosmos were recovered. And also, you could pay online to watch the entire event. This event lasted four and a half hours to show one fucking slide. Oh, my God. So...

It was David Ike-level madness. It reminded me of like the days of like, you know, the freak shows, the circus. Yeah. You know, the circus was in town that day for this event. And again, you mentioned tongue. Carrie. Let's not forget Don Schmidt being involved with this as well. Again, the All-Star Roswell people. And here's the thing with this one, Rob, I don't know about you. I still am questioning whether Carrie and Schmidt, like, if they really genuinely thought this was authentic and this was going to be it, or if they knew all along that this was all a guise of this Adam Doe character who brought the slides forward was going to make this documentary.

about the slides. And that never came to be, apparently. I think Dewe was behind this the whole time and duped everybody. Probably made off with a shit ton of money. But at the end of the day, this one really, really hurt the UFO community for a while. You know, it was a huge joke in the mainstream. And it was a huge joke to us as well. You know, Don Schmidt, I will give him credit, you know, wrote a really long apology about it and said, I was, I just, got caught up in it. I got excited. And, you know, this is just a lesson I've learned. That's okay, dude. But how many lessons do you have to learn before you can say, like,

we don't have bodies? Like, give up. Right. We're over 70 years now. You could stop what the bodies think. You could just stop it. And they said they couldn't decipher that placard we were talking about. Somebody did it a day later after the slide was out to the public. A day later. you're telling me you guys investigated this slide for years to see its authenticity and in a day a group of people was able to yeah it's uh it's it's like we need to stop putting stock in the alien mummy thing we just need to stop it just listen like we don't even know what an alien is we just have this massive pop cultural thing where the alien has it on the large head almond shaped eyes and that's the only alien that we have. Like, no, we need to, we need to stop. We've never, we don't have physical proof of an alien. We just don't.

Like, if you want to go so far as to say that Neil Armstrong was an alien for stepping foot on the moon, go ahead, go ahead. That's fine. I like that. Yeah. But other than that, we just need to stop speculating that human bodies found in the desert, because these were all found in the desert. Have you noticed that? Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Just human bodies found in the desert, don't speculate their aliens, people. Please, do not speculate their aliens. We don't have physical proof of an alien. Just stop it. Just stop it. You know what? I have nothing to add to that.

Just stop it. All right, my man. So moving on to another discussion you and I have had off air, the term UFO. Now, this is a big one under contention. As of late, I'd say, especially after Hillary Clinton, you know, when public of like with UAP in the press, you know, leading up to the election night. And, and you know, there's a new name. It's unexplained aerial phenomenon.

Unexplained aerial phenomenon, really. Yep, UAP. That's the latest nomenclature. I like the old one. I like UFO. I don't know why. So this one, this one, it's hard because we're so, so conditioned to the acronym UFO when it comes to this topic.

But it's really not good anymore for what we're dealing with. So I'm going to let you take the lead on this one because this was one you brought up to me first and foremost. So why is it inadequate? There we go. Well, if we go back to the origins, we go back to 52 and we're going to Project Blue Book. And they were kind of looking for a new term to describe these because flying saucers just wasn't cutting it. Because, I mean, there's so much ridicule to the term. And not everything was a saucer.

So it might have been Rupelt himself that came up with the term Unidentified Flying Object. I believe it was, yeah. Yeah. And the problem that I have with the term is the word object. And the problem is is that you've now front-loaded the term. If we're taking UFOs into this larger context of something that may not be 100% physical, it doesn't totally fall in the realm of an object.

it's something else beyond that. So for me, object just, it's too limiting as to what a UFO could be. And also, too, the way that people throw around the term UFO, I don't know if they totally understand it because, like, what I'll hear in conversations all the time is like, well, it was unidentified and it was flying, so it's got to be a UFO. And like, no, that's not what the term UFO means. That's not what its intention was. the intention was, and I think

the way Hynek put it was you see something in the sky that remains unidentified long enough for someone to write a report about it. Yes. Or something like that. Oh, God, I love him. Yeah, it's like, not everything that's in the sky that you see is a UFO. It has the

potential to be a UFO, but unless you got eyes and ears on it and it's totally been investigated, then it's not really a UFO. I mean, even if you go to Hynek's long, drawn-out, definition, of a UFO in the UFO experience, it's, there's working parts there. I mean, you got the person that sees it, you've got, you got the object itself, and then the person that investigates it.

So it's a little more complicated than we make it out to be, but also it's just very limiting because, yeah, objects, realistically a UFO, you're only observing it with one sense most of the time. Yeah. I mean, sometimes you hear, you hear, you hear a, you hear a UFO. I mean, sometimes you hear a something, you get two, but like, that's pretty much it. So I feel like UFO is definitely limiting to where people like John Keel, Jacques Valet, even Heinek towards the middle 70s on, we're, you know, working with this and we're theorizing about it. Like, it's, object is just a little too limiting for me.

And, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe, Clinton was a little too, you know, a little too brash. You need to dial it back a bit. You're not in the community lady. Yeah, she wishes. She wishes. Yeah, just because you hang with John Podesta, it doesn't mean you're part of this. Stop it.

I know. Fear of missing out on her part. Yeah. So I guess, you know, my question for you, Rob, would be then, what should we call them? If we're not going to use UFO anymore, because of all the baggage it comes with that, what should we call these things? Or should we just use all different acronyms at this point? I mean, I'm all for like singling in and expediting, but yeah, what do we do if we can't use this term that we've had for so long?

Right. Well, I mean, UAP's, it's a good term in terms of it's not, it's broad. It's not limiting. It's good to go with, but maybe there is another term out there. Maybe we'll come across it down the line, but I think UAP is a good start. maybe we could refine it down the line, but it's a good start. It is a good start because you change the O to P for phenomena, but then you still have the aerial thing, you know? Yeah.

So what about are the objects seen underwater or this and that? Yeah, it's just, it could go a million different ways. So, you know, it's tough. It's tough. Yeah, and I mean, like, if you think about it, too, like, when we call them, you know, abductions, that's also a limiting term, too, because we don't fully know what's going on there. And we can't always document that the people that are being abducted have actually left physically. So, you know, that's another tough one, too.

It is. Yeah. We're so, you know, in the UFO field in general, I'd say we're stuck with these terms that we, a lot of the older guard, I would say, refuse to adapt to or evolve with. So it's hard. It's hard because, you know, abductions and you. UFOs. We've dealt with this for so long, you know, but how do we get the field, quote, unquote, to move forward with these new terms? I guess we just do it one researcher at a time and hope the

rest will follow. And if not, you know, going to leave you in the dust, guys. I'm sorry, guys and girls. I mean, that's why this field needs younger people, more young people to, you know, get some new, inject some new life into this. You know, it's definitely needed at this point, because when you look at the phenomenon from the course of like the late 1800s all the way to now, it's evolved on its own. It's evolved to suit like kind of our needs and what we need to perceive it as. So why shouldn't we evolve with it? I love that. Well, you did mention Hynick a couple times.

And I have to ask you on the spot here. We had this past week a trailer released for the new history television show based on. on true events, it claims, called Project Blue Book, with our UFO dad as the main character. We have a situation in West Virginia. Family report has seen something falling from the sky. I get down there right away. I need you to meet someone first.

The name's Dr. Alan Heinek. You want me to investigate flying saucers. I want you to help me prove to the public the truth. They don't exist. So I have to ask you, you being probably the biggest Heinek fan I have ever met in my life. What did you think, man? What did you think when you saw this trailer? The first thing that I thought was I need to throw my phone.

Just like throw it across the room because I was, I was not thrilled with it. For the Heinek aficionados, you're not going to find a lot good about this. Like, the first thing, like one of the first things this shows is the Flatwoods monster, which Heinek did not investigate. Right. And other things, Heinek never saw alien bodies in any bunkers. Heinek never personally saw a UFO up close and all that stuff. That being said, if I could divorce myself from the fact that this is Jay Allen Heinek, I might be able to enjoy this, but it's going to be hard. Agreed.

This show looks slick. It looks very well written, at least from the dialogue I heard in the trailer. And again, like, kudos on them for finding some obscure cases. Flatwoods, Lubbock Lights, I saw in there a little bit. What else did we have? A few others. But again, you know, like the fact that they say based on true events, yes, but having nothing to do with your main character. That is where I have a problem.

Why couldn't they have just used some fictional character instead of taking the legacy of a hero in the UFO field and beyond, even the astronomy field, and silly his name with this fictional account? The case history, the actual case history, is interesting enough. Why do we have to add all this other stuff to it? But again, being in the entertainment field myself, I understand that artistic license and that creative process, you have to. You have to divorce yourself from facts sometimes. But in this case, we personally both have spoken to and reviewed the book of Mark O'Connell. Yeah, a close encounters man. It's a phenomenal book.

I mean, you could, there is a great story in there. And he investigated a number of great cases. I mean, like, I think one of my favorite facts from that book is that when he was going to investigate Lani Zamora's sighting, their car breaks down, he's hitchhiking all the way into Socorro because he's not going to wait around. Like, there's so many great cases from 47 all the way up to 69 if you want to go there. And even beyond, you know, with Qfos and all the stuff they were doing, I don't understand why you need to embellish because like, if you look at the tone of the trailer a bit, it almost kind of has a tiny bit of a horror element to it. like it's it's suspenseful but it's like trying to like rope you in because like the first shot is of this one guy in his car and then it automatically just shuts down and then bam there's a blue beam of light and you know like i don't think we need to go at it from a horror element because there aren't a lot of good like even the alien abduction horror movies there aren't a lot of good ones so like there's enough like high strangeness on its own is a frightening concept when you think about it and the fact that it just does not most of what happens

just does not fit into your concept of what things are with that being said I can kind of also understand too at the same time because I high strangers it's not something that you could probably easily film a perfect example is the mothman prophecies if you look at that movie like and you know I'm I'm good friends with rich Adam and I've talked to him about the script and he's like they had to edit so much of that script that, you know, the really scary stuff they left out because it didn't make any sense. So high strangeness, not an easy thing to film. I'll watch it begrudgingly and I'm probably going to be angry about it. But you know what?

A tiny bit of me will enjoy this. I guarantee it. I was going to say the same thing, man. You know, we are UFO fanboys when it really comes down to it. Yes, we're researchers. Yes, we're investigators. Yes, we're podcasts. But at the end of the day, like, we're fanboys of UFOs.

We really are. And I embrace that fullheartedly. And, you know, even just hearing Heinek, hearing that name on mainstream television, like, I got chills. And I got chills when the, the, um, Flatwood's monster scene played out in the trailer. I'm just like, oh, my God, this is so cool. So at the end of the day, I'm going to watch it and I'm probably going to enjoy it because it looks entertaining as hell. And there are going to be those cherry-picking moments where we're

going to be like, oh, Mantel, oh, Roswell, oh, uh, uh, Sikoro, you know, it's, it's going to happen. And we're going to be excited. And then you and I and the other researchers are going to pick out the things that were wrong, and we're going to bitterly talk about it with one another. And that's, that's what television is. There's a million podcasts out there about every television show you can think of. And that's what they do.

So maybe we'll have to do that, a little Project Blue Book, a mini-sowed thing once this thing starts. But I think it'll be fun. But again, at the end of the day, the fact that Heinek is getting out there to the mainstream and the UFO topic, again, I'm all for it, even if it is masked in entertainment and some inaccuracies. I'm still going to watch it,

but it doesn't mean I'm not going to complain about it. Yeah, exactly. All right, my man. So let's move on to some listener questions. I put this out a few days ago to see, if anyone would bite. And we got some really interesting questions from listeners of both your show, the Our Strange Skies podcast, and somewhere in the skies. So I want to start with, let's see, let's see what I got here. This one is from Kevin. And he asks, is it possible that the creation

of Space Force, Pew, Pew, was inspired by Intel about an alien threat. So what are your thoughts on this whole space force thing that Trump is doing. My administration is reclaiming America's heritage as the world's greatest spacefaring nation. The essence of the American character is to explore new horizons and to tame new frontiers. But our destiny beyond the earth is not only a matter of national identity, but a matter of national security. So important for our military, so important. And people don't talk about it. When it comes to, comes to defending America, it is not enough to merely have an American presence in space. We must have American dominance in space.

Do you have any thoughts on this? Like, I had this picture in my head of somebody in Trump's cabinet, like, playing, like, footage of Gary McKinnon talking about, you know, the, uh, whatever the heck project he was talking about. Off planet officers, I believe. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, non-terrestrial officers.

That's right. And talking about all this crazy crap, and then, you know, you've got the, uh, the, the truthers coming forward and talking about their service and our, our space force that we already apparently have. And I, I really, I really don't know. Maybe the man just wants, like, to dominate the entire universe. His ego might be that big. I don't know.

But it was, I, um, I'm trying to remember exactly what I did that day. I think I laughed for about five minutes when I saw the video because I'm like, I understand how my country works and I understand that the only way this is going to happen is if Congress approves it. We already spend enough on, you know, our military budget. There's no way you're going to be able to ask people to pay. You're talking trillions more.

There's no way that you could get that off the ground without, you know, taxing people like crazy. Here's an idea. Why don't they charge every person that goes to this big military parade he's putting on? Charge them each like, you know, 45 million each ahead maybe? That could work. You know, that's not a bad strategy. Before I go any further, man, I do want to say I have nothing but respect for our military.

Yeah, no, absolutely not. Please listeners don't take that as an offense. I highly respect them. Yes, they. deserve a parade. If it's the best way to spend our money, that's a different question. But yeah, anyways, I interrupted. No, that's all good. I just don't understand what would inspire someone to say we need a space force. Maybe this is like, you know, that leftover Reagan era Star Wars stuff that he's, you know, all giddy about or something. Well, yeah. I don't know. I mean,

they have been saying that this actually has been long before Trump was. in office that this was a possibility and that a lot of people thought it was a good idea including Neil deGrasse Tyson who actually responded and said I think it's a good idea he said you know in case there's asteroids

that ever reach the earth like at least there's a contingency plan ready for something like that 24-7 monitoring it ready to blow it up if need be he said you know in terms of like science and astronomy like this is a good idea but again space force it's military

branch. So it's just funneling more money into the military industrial complex, if you think about it, and money that we don't have, like you said. So that's kind of my thoughts on it. I'm on the fence. You know, I'd rather explore space, you know, and help save our planet rather than militarize it even more. Yeah. Here's a better idea. Why don't you increase NASA's funding? How about we do that? I'm all for it. You know, instead of cutting the funding, how about you give more money? done. I'm with you. Done. Let's see. Kevin also asks, what do other countries say about UFOs and aliens? Which country do you guys think is most open to disclosure? What do you think, Rob?

Disclosure. That's fun, fun word. I've kind of come down to this theory that I don't think disclosure is a real thing because I don't think our military knows anything about UFOs. So it's kind of just like that buzz term you throw around just because, like, automatically your government has to know more. I don't think there's any government on this planet that knows any more than any of us. But if you look at, even in countries like Mexico, you look at England, the United Kingdom, you look at Belgium. You look at Belgium. All these places are a hell of a lot more open about it than we are. and I don't think disclosure's going to be a thing that any government's going to give to us.

It's just, I don't think they know what we think they know. I think they know maybe just, if anything, a tiny bit more, but nothing. I don't think they know anything substantial. I would have to agree, yeah. The only place I can really think of that really kind of looked into it was France. You know, with Guypen, Sepra, you know, they were the most open about it in terms of investigating. Yeah, the Kermeda report. Yep, yep, exactly. Brazil, like you mentioned as well, Mexico, like they all embrace the topic of UFOs and aliens, whether or not, like, disclosure is going to happen through another country. I don't know, but like you said, I agree. I don't think our military and or government, that big overarching word government, we have to remember how compartmentalized it actually is, that they don't know. But my friend Robbie Graham,

says they may not know what's going on out there or can control it, but they control the information that can get to the public. So that's kind of where I leave that. I don't know. Yeah, not just the information, but the way that it's perceived. Yes. It's, there's definitely that aspect that I don't think a lot of people give consideration to, but like, look at popular culture. That's been formed. I mean, it's, it's not formed in, like, really any kind of truth. It's just gray alien heads. and actually most of the time they're green now, even though nobody reports ever seeing green aliens. I know. I do wonder where that sort of started.

I don't know. Little green men. Yeah, it's interesting. Well, okay, so let's see. Kevin's next question. Kevin, Kevin really, really hit it out of the park. He's got a bunch of them. He did.

I love it. Locked and loaded. According to Cheryl Costa's data, UFO sightings have dropped off in recent years. Could this be due to loud? of reporting, or do you think our technology has advanced to the point where they may be more cautious to approach? Hmm. That's a really good question.

I think what it comes down to is more people aren't reporting their UFO sightings. Okay. And to me, I think, you know, there are some factors to that. I discussed some of it on my podcast. When you, like, when Mufon and the whole John Ventre thing, like, I guess, get that people have their own views and I get how other people have a right to express those views, but at the same time, if you want to harbor someone in your organization who expresses those views, well, hey, guess what? There's going to be a certain sector of people that aren't going to want to

report UFOs to your organization. You mean everyone but white males? Yes, exactly. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, and that's problematic. That makes your data problematic. That makes it skewed quite a bit. And if you look at The reporting centers. Look at Mufon's website. It is the most dated thing I think I have ever seen. I don't think it's been updated since probably the early 2000s. And in having experience with their CMS, it looks god-awful. It really needs updating badly. And I mean, even New Fork, their website, like, they pretty much want you to fill a PDF out and send it to them. I can't do that. Yeah, like, um, don't you know, this generation, don't you know, this generation, don't you understand? We're,

we're on phones and stuff. It's instant. Like, why, why has nobody upgraded this thing? And sure, I'm sure a portion of it comes down to money, but you'd figure move on of all places that, yeah,

maybe they don't, then maybe they're not swimming in it, but they've got to be, they got to have enough money to upgrade their system. I mean, I mean, where is the membership dues going? Yeah, exactly. It was something like New Fork, you've got a one-man band in a, you know,

a abandoned missile silo taking all these reports. Like, I get that. He's on the older side. He doesn't, he probably isn't tech savvy when it comes to, like, the website. Like, you leave the dude messages on his answering machine to report these things. Yeah. You know, that's how you do it if you're not going, filling out a PDF online. But in terms of Mufon, you're right, man.

Like, they have, clearly have people who are tech savvy within the organization, and they have funds. And you're right. It's just, I don't get it. I don't get it. But you know what? In terms of like his point of have they had the reports dropped off or has the activity dropped off? That's another big one that I kind of was looking at. I think people are looking to the skies less, too, the nowadays.

Yeah. And of course, that's also going to dramatically affect reporting if they're not actually looking in the sky and seeing things. I also think that it's quite possible that if some sort of intelligence has and is visiting our planet, maybe they've started to move on at this point. You know, that's kind of what the comedic episode of The X-Files was in this season 11. The aliens finally came down and told Mulder, yeah, we're here, but we're never coming back. we've sort of given up on you guys. So goodbye, good luck, see ya. So I thought that was a brilliant way to sort of cap off the X-Files. That should have been their finale. But maybe it's true. Maybe we aren't as, you know, such great importance to this Galactic Federation any longer. Maybe they're just on vacation. What if the, I imagine it's not easy coming all the way here, adapting to our atmosphere, trying to stay off radars, be elusive, abduct people. Maybe they just needed a really good vacation. Maybe they're, you know, on Venus or something.

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, maybe. It's a thing. But like, when you think about, like, the all-time great cases going back the last 70 years, how many of them are from the year 2000 and up? Not that many. You have the Southern Illinois sightings.

You have. Oh, Hare. O'Hare, you have Stephenville, and these are just the American sightings. I'm not even talking about the sightings in other countries, but like, those are really the only three that come to mind. Oh, and then maybe Tinley Park, you know, because a bunch of people who are coming from OzFest, saw some UFOs. I dig it.

Yeah. I'm sure they weren't on anything at that time. No, but I mean, like, you know, like, that's one of the things that I miss more than anything. like please cancel ancient aliens bring back UFO hunters I don't care you know how crazy

they got on that show because they did here and there I would rather have that than ancient aliens all day long agreed I loved UFO hunters for anyone out there if you haven't watched the show please watch it

please please go watch it Bill Burns is fucking crazy and I love it he is but like you know what he gets things done with this craziness. I will give him that much. Absolutely. Yeah. And he's not afraid to go there. You know, while he's got the

skeptical investigators out there, actually like trying to replicate a UFO event and actually find answers, aliens. It's aliens. I love it. I love Bill Burns so much. Yeah. Oh, man. Bring back UFO hunters. Please.

All right. So here's the last one from Kevin. I think we've given Kevin his time here. This is a good one, too. What planet or moon in our solar system do you think has the best chance of harboring life? This one's interesting. I actually, I spoke to Seth Shawstack at AlienCon, maybe, what was it like a month ago now? And I actually asked him that same question. So I'm so happy Kevin brought this up. You know, he's the senior astronomer at the SETI Institute for anyone who doesn't know. And he told me, he believes it to be a moon,

actually, a moon of Saturn called Enceladus. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. I'm not good with with names. Scientists think there are reservoirs of liquid water that lie beneath the frozen surface, and, you know, they're warmed by the gravitational interactions between the moon and other moons on Saturn. So he thinks that's our best bet. I don't know. Do you have any ideas? Rob, you're brushed up on your astronomy here? Not really. Like, I brought you on, man. Come on. I know. I know. I kind of rail against it a little bit just because, like, I'm so worn out by the extraterrestrial

hypothesis. I'm just like, um, I don't know. I don't think we don't have the technology to visit them. Maybe when they come to visit us, we'll figure that out. But it's just, it's something that I don't even think about. Largely because like at the same time while it's exciting, we're so, I'm so worn out over, hey, we found this many planets that could support life in the Goldilocks zone or we found this many stars that could support life. And it's, to me, that's almost kind of limited. because your parameters for what life is is limited to what we are and what we have on this planet. And while I can totally entertain that, to me, it's just limiting. So whenever I hear new information about, oh, we found a planet that has water on it and could totally support life, I'm just like, cool, I dig it.

When are the aliens showing up? Exactly. Yeah, we do. We always base it on, you know, our composition, you know, life on Earth, you know, the carbon makeup of us. Why does it have to be that? Why can't life thrive on, you know, a methane planet or a planet full of arsenic? I don't know.

You're right, though. Yeah, yeah. Like, just bring me, bring me the aliens. Awesome. Kevin, thank you for those questions. Next up is Saul. Saul's got a good one here. if there is one UFO incident or event that you would wish to investigate and solve, if that would be possible, he adds,

which would you choose and what do you think the conclusion would be? Yeah, the case that has, oh God, it has bugged me for years is Lonnie Zamora. And part of the reason why Lonnie Zamora's case gets to me so much is just he's this innocent cop that's just in the wrong place at the wrong time. and one of the most charming things about him is that when all is said and done, the guy's upset because he didn't meet his quota for tickets for the day. Like, this is your average Joe, has one of the most transformational UFO experiences of his life, and he ends up getting ridiculed off the police force, ends up retiring from the police force. And the thing is, is like, when you boil down all the evidence, all the facts,

You get to the nitty gritty of it. It's either from Earth or it's not from Earth. Those are the only explanations that can even fit. And we know it's a good case because we have a correlated siting from some family at a gas station that said, hey, our car was buzzed by a UFO. When did this happen, Rob? I'm sorry, this is the Socorro case, correct? Oh, the Sequo. Yeah, it was in 1964.

Thank you, thank you. Yes, in New Mexico. And, yeah, we could just, like, run down the basics of it for those that don't know. Why not, yeah? You know, I'm trying to open the show up to a lot of people who may not be familiar with these things. So this might be a good primer for him, for sure, because this is one of my favorite cases as well. If you don't mind, I know you have extensive, you've done your homework on this one for sure. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. So Lonnie Zamora, he's pursuing a car south of town. It's about 5.45 in the afternoon. And all of a sudden, he hears this really loud, roaring sound, and he sees this blue light, this blue beam of fire just descending into the desert. At first, he just thinks that it's the mayor's old dynamite shack, and it's about to explode, because, you know, every outskirts of town needs a dynamite shack. So he approaches the dynamite shack.

And he sees at first what he believes to be an overturned car, because he could see people outside. This road about a half a mile, and then I stopped my car, and I got out and looked up, and I could see a white looking object in the distance. I thought it was an overturned car at first, but I got into a patrol car. I went up closer to it. And when I started to get out of the car,

I could, I heard a big roar. As I got to it, I could see a couple of, looked like a couple of coveralls hanging from a close line. I couldn't see what it was, but it looked like a couple of coveralls. When he gets closer, what he realizes is, no, it's not an overturned car. It's an egg-shaped object that has landing pods down, and there are two humanoids wearing these white coveralls just outside the crash. doing whatever they're doing.

And when one of them sees Lonnie Zamora, they get, they got this shocked look on their face. They get back into their UFO. And the, that blue stream of fire, it lifts the craft up into the air and then it silently flies off. And Lonnie Zamora, just a really salt to the earth guy, calls in for backup. And his buddy, Sergeant Chavez shows up. And they go and they go looking at the landing site and they find that there are bushes that are singeing. They find marks in the ground.

Yeah, this case pretty much ruined Lonnie Zamora's life. Yeah. Unfortunately. But it's become kind of a stronger case over the years. And even Jacques Valet has this nice little anecdote about a UFO sighting from earlier the day in New York of a craft that matches the description. of course. When Zamora reported it, he talked about seeing some kind of symbol on the side, but this New York farmer that came across it didn't see it.

But he did encounter these two humanoid beings, and they told him that they were from Mars and that they wanted fertilizer. So the farmer goes and gets the fertilizer, and as he's leaving, the craft lifts off and disappears, he brings the fertilizer back, though. and the next morning when he goes out to this plot of land, which he was looking forward to increase his farmland, he goes back out there, the fertilizer's gone. So, you know, this is one of those really weird, fun cases that, yeah,

if I could solve that, I would totally be, I would be elated, I would retire, I wouldn't even need to do a podcast anymore. I just, you know, go soak it up or something. Call it a day. I love it. I love it, man. That's one of my favorite cases as well. Goofy is all hell. But again, such a straight shooter that you can't help but believe this guy. You can't help it. There's another silly case we're going to cover a little later here as well, one of the questions that we have. But for me, I think it would have to be Rendellsham. You know, I was looking for a really obscure case, but I kept coming back to Britain's Roswell. This happened in 1980. in Rendlesham Forest, which was between two joint military bases in England. There was three consecutive nights of UFO events in this forest. A ton of military personnel were sent out to investigate it. There was a craft that was seen hovering above one of the bases,

lights coming down over the nuclear bunkers that were secretly nuclear weapons were being housed at one of the bases at the time, unbeknownst to England. the American-owned base was hiding them. Supposedly a craft landed, a couple officers touched it, and then this thing shot up, disappeared. And it's crazy, man. It's a crazy case. It's well-documented.

But there were so many witnesses to it. And that's what really got me. There's documents. There's audio recordings. There's the first ever lawsuit that was won by one of the officers that involved an actual UFO event as the cause of the officer's ailment. after this all happened. And it's just so full of weird shit

that for me, what I think my conclusion with this case would be is that it was some sort of MK Ultra-like thing. And I know my mentor, Peter Robbins, if he hears this,

is going to hate me for saying that. Because he did write one of the definitive books on the case, a British bestseller. But the way I look at it, you know,

these guys were drugged after the event. happened to try to get them to tell the truth about what they'd experienced and whatnot. A lot of the officers said they were in like a dreamlike state while it was all happening. And it seemed just so odd, so weird, and also

staged. That was another big thing. Like, it almost seemed too good to be true in many ways. I think maybe this was some sort of psychop. This was during the Cold War. This is in the 80s, you know, some shady shit was going. on, man. But the way it was all handled, it just, to me, it seemed like it was almost planned. And I don't know how else to put that. I'm sure there's so much to contradict everything I just said. But at the end of the day, it happened. There's documentation of it. There's audio recordings. Sorry, what were you going to add? Well, like, when you think about it, like, what's the other really famous case from that time?

that actually shares a lot of features of the Rendelsham case. Cash Landrum. If you look at Cash Landrum, the object that they saw was like, it had harsh geometrical patterns. It was like diamond shaped. Right. Whereas in Rendlesham, it was this like, there were like, it was like a triangle on top of a triangle.

You have the witnesses that both experienced, you know, ill health effects from this object. And they both end up suing the government over this. You're right. I forgot about that. Yeah, Cash Laddra. That was in Texas, correct? Yep. It was in Texas, and I think it was like, I want to say it was like the day, maybe day before, day after. You're right. Yeah. Two women, a little boy, they witnessed it, and they all had elements afterwards, radiation sickness, which also a lot of the people in the Rendlesham case had. And then they went out there with Geiger counters and those things were fucking going nuts. I mean, clearly there was some sort of technology emitting very unhealthy doses of radiation at both these events. So you do really have to wonder.

You have to wonder. I don't know. So in terms of that, I'd say Rendelsham, for me, it just all seemed too good to be true. But if anyone hasn't heard, go to YouTube right now and type in Bass Commander Recordings, Randolsham Forest. or anything, Charles Halt, Rendelsham Forest. You can hear the audio recordings of the base commander doing a play-by-play of what was happening in the forest that night. And it's terrifying. It's terrifying listening to these tapes.

So yeah, that's it for me. If I could solve one case, for me, it would have to be Rendlesham. So let's move on to our mutual friend here, Rosie from the Rabbit Hole Motel podcast. She's got a couple really good ones. And these are actually for you, Rob. So get ready, brother. Buckle yourself up. Her first question here is, here's one. I think Rob will have something interesting to say.

Why do you think UFO phenomena have different eras? There's time periods where it seems to be mostly aerial sightings. Then it becomes about abductions for a while. I know he's very interested in how weird the 70s get. It's all like they're fads of some sorts. So what do you make of that, man, UFOs throughout the decades? It's kind of like the Jacques Belayette. aspect again where he talks about how the phenomena changes to fit our worldview in a certain sense.

You go from airships in 1896 to 1897, and then it's pretty quiet for a while. And then you go to 42 in the Battle of Los Angeles, whatever happened there. And that's still something that's hotly contested, mostly because we only have one real eyewitness that is come forward to actually talk about it and his, I believe his name is C. Scott Littleton. And he actually wrote a book about what it was like to grow up in Los Angeles around that time. So you have that and then stuff just goes crazy in L.A. They're shooting in the air and maybe they get the idea, well, we'll come back in a few years and see if anything has changed. So you hit 47. And despite the fact that they were calling them flying saucers,

They all weren't saucers. They were discs, which you can call, you know, a spade of spade or whatever. But to me, that's a totally different thing. From there, they've kind of, you know, stayed within the same, you know, kind of configurations. You had the triangles start to show up in the 60s. But, yeah, it just seems to curtail itself to whatever era we're in and our understanding of our place in the universe. The 70s were a really weird time for abductions. And a lot of them go like under, not underreported, but just they're not talked about, you know, Pascagoula, that has got to be the Pascagoula abductions.

Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker. Holy crap, those beings. Let's see, the descriptors, they had, they were like five feet tall, had wrinkly skin, which makes me always think of the Michelin Man. and then they had like carrot like appendages on their head. They had lobster claws and elephant feet. I don't even know where you begin with that. Yeah. And it gets weirder and weirder.

There's a case that I talk about on Patreon on my Patreon. It would actually be a free episode so everybody will be able to check it out. But it's the abduction of this man named Lee Parrish. He was abducted in Kentucky. in 1977, and he was abducted by machine-like beings. He was driving home from a friend's house late at night, and he gets taken up aboard this craft. And what he sees before them is this really large black. It almost looks like a wall to his left.

He sees this white machine in front of him, and then he sees this red one on his right, and they do these experiments on him with these arms that are. attached and then they deposit him back in his truck like 30 some odd minutes later it is one of the weirdest cases i have ever read uh i did one on i did an episode on the david stevens abduction which the beings in that had mushroom-shaped heads with they had really large kind of black eyes with white pupils and they had webbed hands they did the 70s are just weird I love it. Yeah, and then when you transition into the 80s, you get these archetypal grays and like kind of the similar-looking grays.

And it seems like, you know, Whitley Streber kind of just popularized these beings and that's what everybody interacted with. But that's not always the case. And I mean, even in your book, you've talked to people who reported very, very strange-looking beings that I've, never come across before or since. So there's definitely a variety, but I do think it's a phenomenon that shapes itself around our, not worldview, but our view of the universe and everything around us. So yeah, it's definitely one of the weird features of the phenomenon for sure. Yeah, absolutely, and I love that about it. It's extremely amorphous. It tries to relate to maybe, you know, what's going on in our society and culture at the time, just to have some sort of resemblance, you know,

to communicate something to us, what that is. I have no idea when it comes to a mushroom head and black eyes or lobster claws. But at the end of the day, like, that's what it is. And that's what it's, you know, trying to, that's what it's showing us. And it's up to us how we interpret that and how we give it meaning and purpose, I think. So. Yeah. It's fascinating. So Rosie's next question is, in the history of public acceptance of citing claims, it seems like things are changing, less belittling and teasing and fewer mocking news stories. I give credit to millennials who tend to honor everyone's different perspective, journey than previous generations.

There's lots of good with this. It's exciting to watch the shift in the waters. But how do you both see that this could also cause problems? How do we proceed with caution and not end up reaffirming to the less invested public that this phenomenon is something silly? Ooh, that was a marathon. You know, that's a tough one just because there's always going to be an element of this phenomenon that's just not going to be taken seriously by whatever groups of people.

It might be, maybe the older crowd is definitely not open to it and the younger crowd is, but you're always going to have a large, to me, a large portion of the population that is not even going to consider this in actual. thing. I don't think it's any particular one thing that is going to prevent people from, you know, looking into this anymore. Because like if you, if you look at the crazy cases of the 70s compared to now, a lot of UFO sightings are, I would say, tamer. At least in, in the public, like, we don't hear an awful lot about abduction reports today. Right. And I think, you know, maybe that has something to do with the fact that, you know, those that were investigating it were very, you know, they tried to keep a public face about themselves, and you don't have as much of that anymore. I mean, like, Kathleen Martin's doing great work with Mufon, but that's with Mufon.

It's not going beyond that. So I think largely it's, you know, part of it comes down to who's now shaping this phenomenon, the people that are bringing this information of the public. You know, it's being, I think, reshaped by different people, but I don't think there's going to be any major block or any major thing to prevent people from, you know, even considering this. It's just going to come down to the perspectives that these people have. I agree, yeah.

And I think another big thing is we spend so much time trying to legitimize the topic with credible cases, like what? to the stars is doing, bringing military footage to the public of, like, very highly advanced aircraft that pilots are witnessing, you know, some of the most credible witnesses we could possibly have. And yeah, that's what's getting out to the mainstream right now and making it more acceptable. But it's a double-edged sword because you and I both know that what for every military witness there is, there's also a civilian witness seeing super back shit crazy stuff. And we can't ignore that.

You know, we can't play it down because we're doing a disservice. But to both the witness, their testimony, and to the phenomenon, you know, again, we're not dealing with just fucking metal saucers zipping through the air. We're dealing with every type of phenomena you can possibly think of, possibly interconnected with other things that are happening to people. So I do wonder, you know, as the topic becomes more mainstream and possibly acceptable, what about all the really, really weird stuff that's going on? Is that going to sort of teeter off and we're only going to look at these reports that are being given to us through ready, Rob, drip, drip, disclosure? I don't know. I really don't know.

Yeah, it's tough to really say because, like, when I do look at these, like, the cases that are, you know, the cases that are, you know, the, the ones that people cite from 2000 to 2018. I just, they are very tame. Yeah. Even for, even for Commander David Fraver's story. Because, like, the video that's been provided is not, it's not a video from his plane.

It's a video from another plane that went out later that day. So for me, it's just, it's so tame right now that it, that it just doesn't seem like, there would be a lot of barriers to being open to this. It's just, it's changed so much just in the people that have investigated it, the people who have reported it to the public. So in all honesty, maybe it's the fact that it's not, that we're trying to make it a public thing again. At least to the star seems to, you know, be trying to make this a public thing,

although I don't think we can do what Tom DeLong thinks you can and just strong-arm the government into releasing all of this information. That's not how it works. And like, you could go to jail for that if you just, you know, release information without getting, you know, without getting it declassified. So it's really tough. I, I don't really know, you know. Like beyond that, it's just we don't have those like killer.

cases like we used to. I know. And maybe it's just because we don't have the investigators out in the field doing this as much. Yeah, that could be it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, it seems to have teetered off like Cheryl Costa's analysis would tell us. But, yeah, we don't have Rosals.

We don't have Rendell Shums. We don't have those anymore. But who knows? Maybe we'll get one. Or maybe, maybe this is it. Maybe we have to accept the sobering and. depressing fact that UFO phenomenon might be coming to an end. I know millions of people who would disagree with me and say it's still happening every day, and maybe it is. Maybe it is. I don't know.

All right, here's another one for you, my man. Considering your first time on my show, we talked all about the men in black, this question comes from Val. She asks, why is it that MIBs, assuming they're connected, are so often out of date, but only in a package. but never future manner, such as their clothes, their speech, their mannerisms. Do they actually not know when they're coming from here? Or are they making a point that they're not from our time or possibly outside of it? That's a loaded question. But really, I get what she's saying, you know, like they, you talked even about like how weird and strange the men and black seem to be and disconnected from the present time they're in.

and even like simple human mannerisms at times. So yeah, what do you make of all that? Either they're the best actors that we have on this planet. And they just act in these really odd ways. And we also have to take into consideration here, too, is that the men and black phenomenon, as it is, is such a varying phenomenon. Sometimes it's somebody who acts definitely like a government agent

is just saying, hey, shut the hell up or we'll take care of you. as opposed to like the the Herbert Hopkins type encounters or the Shane Sovar type encounters that appear to be maybe, you know, beings from some other time or place or planet or whatever. It's such a varying topic. In terms of why they dress and the vehicles they drive and all that stuff, it could be just a, yeah, it could be that disconnect between, hey, we're not, from around here and we we kind of want to you know give you a clue as to that because i mean like there are even cases reported of abduction cases where people see aliens wearing very strange and

out of place outfits like uh whitley streamers they're his last encounter in the bedroom when he asked for quote unquote confirmation there was an alien wearing a double breasted suit so Nice. And I mean... That fancy motherfucker. Yeah, right? And there's... Because when I had Rich Hadamon to talk about abductions, he pointed out this one letter that Whitley and Anne got in the communion letters where this, I believe it was a woman.

But it was hard to tell because you couldn't totally make out gender in every letter. but this one woman claimed to see on board this craft an alien wearing a World War I style helmet with a green trench coat. So you have that kind of weird stuff, you know, all over the place. As to its significance, it's tough to say. You could speculate all day long that it's maybe just the, they have out-of-date fashion. styles? I don't know. They could. They could just be, you know, trying to get that signal across that we're not from around here and we don't, we just kind of want to tip you off about that or whatever. It's such a varied thing. So it could be a number of things. But it makes for entertaining stories,

I'll tell you that much. Oh, absolutely. It keeps us going. You know, I still go back to, you know, Paul Cornell's Saucer Country, Saucer State comic book series, where I think it's the military playing pranks on people. I love that. The entire Men and Black phenomenon is just a prank that they play to entertain themselves. So maybe it's something like that, too. I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah, you never know. All right. So our next question comes from Scott. And he wants our takes on the Aztec case of 1948. So are you familiar with this one at all? Yeah, I'm a bit familiar with it. Maybe it's you. Probably not as much as I should be, but I've got some thoughts on it.

What do you think? The interesting thing is, is like if we look at the highly publicized crash cases, so, I mean, we could quote a couple of them off the cuff here. Kexberg, we, you know, that happened in real time. we've got Roswell which took if you think about it over 40 years to

actually and maybe even longer than that I think it was like more towards the 50th anniversary that it really kind of just blew up but I remember being a kid and like it was the fact that it ended up on unsolved mysteries that people just started taking an interest in this case I mean Stanton Friedman was there in 78

when somebody just you know happened to mention oh Oh, you should go talk to Jesse Marcel. Okay, great. But it took forever for that case to come about. And even the Cape Girardeau crash. I mean, Dean Aliotto was talking about that on your show and how he's looking into that case. And there's a woman named Linda Wallace who's been looking into that case for years interviewing alleged eyewitnesses to it.

And she actually put out a great book called Covert Retrieval a few years ago. So if you're interested in the Cape Girard O'Crash, which happened in 41, you know, six years before Roswell. Or Roswell, yeah. Yeah, yeah, go check out that book. It's a really great book. With Aztec, it was ruled a hoax, and now it's not a hoax, and it's kind of confusing. But to begin with, it started with Frank Scully, and his book was Behind the Flying Saucer. Yes, yep.

And he reported, I think, a number of crashes in there, but one of them was the Aztec New Mexico crash. And then it turned out that there were two individuals, Silas Newton and Leo Gabauer. It was claimed that they made up this story in order to sell fake UFO wreckage. They were known con men at this point, too. They were. But, you know, that's where Scully said he got his story from. And, you know, a few years ago, Scott and Suzanne Ramsey put out this book, you know, the Aztec UFO incident, I believe it is. And, you know, they talk to numerous eyewitnesses.

I'm kind of on the fence about it. You know, it's interesting, but like, how do we go from hoax to legitimate here? Yeah. It usually goes the other way. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you, man. I don't know what to make of it.

And it's, what's even more interesting is that it happened in New Mexico, only less than a year after Roswell. So a lot of people just believe this was, they were trying to bank off of Roswell and be like, oh, we had a crash too, you know? So I don't know. Again, it was proven a hoax almost from the start. I don't know. I will be honest, I have not read the book by the Ramsey, so I cannot definitively say, if it's a hoax or not, clearly. But there are those out there who do believe it.

Stan Friedman is open to the possibility that it could have happened. But, yeah, I don't put much stock in the Aztec case, to be honest. I think we have much better cases with documentation and way more evidence that something actually happened. Yeah, and I mean, even the Cape Gerardo crash, there's allegedly a photograph of these people holding up an alien, And whether that exists truly exists, I don't know. And like, here's to kind of put this into perspective, okay? If we're talking about Aztec right now, it was rule to hoax. That kind of puts a big, you know, X in it for me, as opposed to Cape Girardeau,

which initially came forward from a third-hand source, not even the second-hand source, a third-hand source. You know, it came forward from Charlotte Mann, who was, I believe, the granddaughter of Reverend William Huffman who, you know, Huffman told his story to his wife, and then his wife on her deathbed told it to Charlotte Mann. So in any case, I believe that one a little bit more than I do Aztec. And we're talking about...

Third-hand testimony, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's a really good point, though, man. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I suggest people check that out, the Cape Juret O'Kiss in Missouri, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's another really good one. Shag Harbor as well, which will be coming up the anniversary in October.

That's a good one out of Nova Scotia. All right. Here we go. I've been waiting for this one. This one comes from a listener, Chris. He would like to know what the both of us think about the Billy Meyer case. Yes. I really hope Michael Horn is listening to this.

I'm going to have to tag him in the episode. But I've read that it's all been a big hoax, Chris says, yet it spawned this hippie-dippy-dippy starseed astro-healing movement that just seems so damn delusional to me. That's a really good descriptor. Kudos on that, Chris. Yeah, so I've definitely got an answer for this one. But, Rob, what do you make of the entire Billy Meyer affair, the one-armed Swedish farmer? I'll try to keep it simple. I think he's 100% bullshit.

shit, but for me, the thing about Billy Meyer is his photos are hoaxed. 100%. They've proven that. They found the model. I mean, it's like Ed Walters, except like, Mufon determined that the model was not his or whatever. For Billy Meyer, it was. And I think what we also have to take into consideration, like, despite being this hippie-dippy kind of dude, He has some very racist leanings. And if you go and you read some of his stuff, it is definitely racist. So definitely don't put stock into him.

And I'm going to kind of go on a little, maybe a little tirade here. And like, That's what tonight's for, man. Take a drink. Well, you know, this is going to alienate a certain sect of people. And this is going to alienate X-Files watchers. Oh my God.

I'm going to hang up on you. No, no, no, no. Just give me out. Okay. So, I don't think a lot of people realize that the poster on the wall that says, I want to believe, that's a Billy Meyer photo on that. It is. It's in my living room right now framed.

Yeah. And like, take into consideration. Like, the words I want to believe and the fact that the photo is, it's pulling the rug out from underneath your eyes. Do you think Chris Carliners? Carter meant to do that? Maybe. I, you know.

Or he was like, oh, that's a really good photo. It's very clear. Let's use that. I don't know. I mean, it depends on how much, you know, how into the phenomenon you think Chris Carter was. And like, I don't think he was into it as much as like, you know, people may make out to be. But it's like one of those things where like that show promoted that phrase, I want to believe. and I believe

I believe that phrase has been damaging at least in terms to like the public perception of UFOs belief has nothing at all to do with this phenomenon belief does not confirm or deny the existence of anything

so if you're going around saying I want to believe get that out of your vocabulary I'm just going to say it now get it out of your vocabulary if you want to take this seriously and the other phrase that I rail against from the X-Files that has embedded itself into popular culture. The truth is out there.

I don't think for one second, like when anybody says, we're looking for the truth, that may be true, but you need clues before you even get to the truth. I don't even think we have a damn clue at this point. But don't jump to shark to say, hey, we're looking for the truth. Now get a clue first, and then we'll look for the truth. Welcome to X-Files Bashing Hour with Rob Christopherson. Don't get me wrong. I do love the X-Files.

Whenever I want to get romantic about UFOs, I can watch the X-Files. Of course, man. Yeah. You're a shipper. I get it. Yeah. Whenever I need to reconnect with life, I throw on Jose Chung from Matterspace, because I believe it's the best episode of television ever produced.

It's that great to me. So I don't hate the X-Files. I hate what the X-Files has embedded into popular culture. Let me just put it that way. And if we're going to cite anything here, I do believe it was Richard Doty that said he worked on the X-Files and that he even wrote a couple episodes of the X-Files. So if that's any indication there. Right. Our favorite disinformation agent, for sure.

Yeah. He very well could be listening to this. I like Doty. He's growed on me a lot, and he supports my work. And I'm going to have to get him on the show at some point. But, you know, before we leave both Billy Meyer and The X-Files, I always found it very ironic that the truth is out there was their slogan. And then their other slogan was, trust no one. Yeah.

It always really threw me. I'm like, hmm, which do I go with here? But that was kind of the point of the show. So, all right. Going back to the Billy Meyer case, it is so wrought with contention that it makes my heart burn. I get so much indigestion just when I hear this. You know, he's claimed contact experiences with humanoid beings since the age of five. He claims to be a prophet.

He started a religious movement. He's apparently super racist, which I didn't know about. And he has produced many photos and videos, like you said, that have been proven to be hoaxed. This dude, Michael Horn, appears out of nowhere and becomes the official spokesperson for Billy Meyer. And all right, man, this is, I kind of made this connection not too long ago, and I know I'm not the first to make it, so I don't pretend to be all smart about it. But this is Scientology all over again, if you think about it. Oh, yeah. The Billy Meyer followers, it is a cult.

I will say that. And I'm sorry to anyone who listens to this show that believes in this case. this is a cult. Meyer is Alron Hubbard and his religion was hijacked by Horn, who is David Miscavage. If you think about it, you know, he's made it into a money-making venture. He is taking the belief system of people and he is exploiting it to the endth degree. That's it. You know, going so far as to have absolutely no reliability in claiming that any photo or video that Billy Meyer has is real. You know, everyone under the sun,

every photo analysis, every video person has said these are hoaxes, these are models. And Horn cannot argue that. He really can't. And it sucks. And the minute that a researcher argues it, you get gangstocked.

You get attacked online. You know, they say that we're part of the problem. We're the disinformation people. Why can't we just accept this man's story? And I'll tell you, Why? Because it's all fake. Yeah. Billy Myers' wife came forward and said, oh, yeah, the models were all over the place.

You know, these are not real. So aesthetically pleasing? Yes. Great for an X-Files poster? Yeah, definitely. Have I used them as my cover photo on Facebook? Yep. But at the end of the day, I don't believe a goddamn word that comes out of Billy Myers' mouth or Michael Horn's mouth.

And I'm going to leave it at that when it goes to this one. Yeah, it's a good place to leave it. you know what, don't anybody pick it up. Just don't pick it up. Don't. Don't lick UFOs either. No, don't do it. You know what? You're going to have a worse time than anybody from Rendell Shum or Cash Landrum. You're going to burn your tongue off, okay? Bye, tongue. Well, he also brings up, while Billy Meyer is silly and delusional and the case is ridiculous, he brings up that a lot of people believe this other ridiculous case, and this is when you've covered the Joe Simonton case, pancake aliens.

Oh, man, like, you know, I don't like to prejudge people, but if some Italians gave me some pancakes, you know, that, that case, is so crazy. And I mean, like, it occurred the same year that Betty Barney Hill's abduction did for all, you know, and here's the thing. 62-year-old chicken farmer,

sitting down to brunch at 11 o'clock in the morning. Here's this sound, and he goes outside and he sees this, it would probably be like a saucer. He described the UFO as two saucers connected by a depression ring that had like these six-inch diameter pipes that were going all around it. And this hatch opens.

And he sees what he describes as three, five-foot, Italian-looking aliens with mesmerizing eyes wearing onesies. And they want water. So he trades them water for some of what he calls pancakes, even though I would call them cookies. And he gave me a salute with the back of his hand, the gesture of thanks, I presume. And then, well, I gave him my salute. What am I going to do? I noticed this little man, the same size of a man,

right to the side, the right side of the hatchway cooking these pancakes, which I have one here yet. He was frying these pancakes, and I pointed to him and made a gesture like eating. I thought maybe I get a conversation out of him. Nobody was saying anything. But he didn't say a word. He just reached over and he got a handful.

them, four of them, and they hand them down to me, and they were hot and greasy. And with that, he reached up and he closed his hatch with a heavy thud, click-like, on it latched. And with that, the thing started to raise. It's like it came down. Everything was time-perfeet. It went up about 20 feet. It tilted a 45-degree straight south, and shot off. Within two or three seconds, it was out of sight. Well, there I stood in the driveway with a handful of greasy pancakes. my mouth open, wondering what the heck I'd saw? What had happened? But, you know what? You were about to sit down to brunch. I understand why you call them pancakes. How they taste? They taste like cardboard. Okay. Cool. Here's the thing about that case. That case is

charming as hell, as opposed to Billy Meyer, who is not charming in the slightest. Joe Simonton, I would listen to that man if he was still alive today. Tell me all about his alien pancakes. I don't like to put a lot of stock into belief, but listening. to Joe Simonton, I believe that he did get some pancakes from some Italian-looking aliens who had mesmerizing eyes and they just wanted some water. I'm going with it. I don't care. And one of the coolest things that's coming out this year, I believe it's still coming out this year. I had John Tenney on my podcast. He has written a children's book about this case. Oh my God. Yeah, that is coming out later this year. And it's all about Joe Simonton. And he even has a recipe in there for,

these space pancakes and he has instructions for children to submit a FOIA requests. Oh my God. Yeah. If anything, if anything, this case got more charming just based on that. So I will believe Joe Simonton all day long. I love it. I love it, man. And you and I are going to make a trip to Wright Patterson.

And we're going to bring, are you an Aunt Jemima guy or a Mrs. Butterworth? I could go either way. I really could. Okay. All right. We'll bring both just to be safe. All right. Moving on from Alien Pancakes to the paranormal. Jamie asks, what are our thoughts on how the paranormal and the UFO phenomenon might be related? This is a really tough one. We could talk in the whole episode about this one. And that's the thing. When you look at the cases where paranormal activity, was associated with UFOs.

You know, you go to the Mothman sightings, and there was a ton of that happening where people were seeing UFOs. They were getting these really weird phone calls, and then all of a sudden they had poltergeist-like activity in their house. You have Skinwalker Ranch, where there was poltergeist activity happening inside the house while there were UFOs seen.

There was interdimensional bigfoots and skinwalkers and everything else that's going on, and I can't wait for that documentary by Jeremy Corbell that comes out in September. It's going to be dope. There's, I don't know if it's just that it draws in that type of activity or if it's an extension of that activity. Because if you look at, for instance, a case that I'm going to be covering is the 1973 case from Pennsylvania where this farmer and two kids walk up upon two Bigfoot approaching a UFO. Okay. Yeah, and apparently there are numerous cases like that in Pennsylvania.

Seth Breedlove did the invasion on Chestnut Ridge, which, yeah, which is where all that stuff apparently happens. They have a ton of cases like this. Even ancient aliens had an episode about Bigfoot's UFOs. I just saw that the other day. They had a marathon and just happened to be watching it. And I'm like, oh, God, here we go. But again, man, yeah, no, you're right.

I mean, even some of the people in my book, they claimed that after a UFO event, it just opened the floodgates to everything, you know? The Patty Donahue case with her younger daughters that had experiences with her in their home, after the UFO event and a possible contact experience in the home with a gray being, they had poltergeist activity. They had really high strangeness things going on to the point where they had to have an electrician come to the home because so much weird activity was going on. And the guy experienced it while he was there and he told Patty, I am never coming back here again. I will send another tech. Good luck and goodbye. So, yes, you know, we hear all the time that after a UFO event, there are so many other things that happen. and whether it is connected or not, I don't know, but I think once your mind has been open to one thing, it's only going to be open to others.

And that may again be inextricably linked with these phenomena, whether paranormal, euthological, whatever. It's just going to open up doors that you might not want opened. But it's crazy. So do I think they're connected? Yes. and no. I think some might be, some might not be, some might just be aliens, and some might be something we can't even begin to fathom.

Yeah, and I mean, like, even if you look at, like, the really odd hotspots around the United States, you've got the Bridgewater Triangle area where all that stuff is kind of taking place in one area. You have, I would put Central Kentucky on that map, just because, you know, I've been talking to people and they talk about how there is so much, there's a concentration of so much different stuff in that area that it's just so varied, you know, what Chuck Sikowsky was talking about on the 37th parallel. I think a lot of it does occur on the 37th parallel, you know, but what is it about these areas that makes it unique to all of this phenomenon

occurring at the same time? What was it about Point Pleasant and the Ohio, Valley in 66 and 67 that made it so attractive to all this type of different stuff. That's the kind of crap that keeps me up at night, man. I know. Absolutely. I mean, you could go so far as, you know, the, is it East Seity? The East Seity Ranch as well in Washington.

Like, what is with, or the Heseltine lights in, is it Norway, I believe? Yeah. Yeah. Like, what is it about these areas, Brown Mountain even, where these weird phenomena seem to happen. Chestnut Ridge, you got Bigfoot, you got ghosts, you got aliens, you got everything. What is it? What makes it happen there? I don't know. Are we dealing with laylines? Are we dealing with some sort of natural resources that these things are feeding off of from the planet? I don't know. I don't know. But it's fascinating. Could it just be something as simple as

Water. Water does seem to factor into it. And I covered the Charlie Red Star sightings on Patreon. And I had Amber and Andrew from Into the Portal on to talk about that. And I asked him, because this is all in Manitoba. And Manitoba in Canada is a hotspot for UFOs. And the only conclusion that I could come up with is water, because if you look at Manitoba on a map, it's just a ton of water everywhere. So maybe it could be water. It definitely seems to play a part. It very well could be, especially if you're a non-human intelligence coming to a planet that is mostly water. It's like, oh, they really must depend on this stuff. Let's see what this is all about. You got to wonder. You do have to wonder.

All right, man. Well, we are on our last question, and it comes from our mutual friends over at the Double Density Podcast. and they want to know what do we believe is the biggest misconception with ephology and its related research. I've got one sort of sentence for this, and it is the ETH hypothesis. My thoughts exactly. Oh, I saw your thunder. No, but it's good that we're on the same page as UFO researchers. I mean, the biggest misconception every day when I tell them I'm a UFO researcher,

They're like, oh, aliens. I'm like, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what I said. I said UFOs. I study UFOs. I don't study aliens. That's up to biologists and scientists and, you know, alien theorists.

I look at UFO reports, UFO activity, the witnesses who experienced that. Do I dive into abductions? Yeah, of course I do all the time. But I think the biggest misconception is that when we study uphology, that it is aliens only. and everyone does that. Everyone makes that mistake. I make it myself all the time, all the time. I put on Twitter, I'm doing a UFO thing,

and I use the little alien emoji, and every time I'm like, God damn it, why did I do that? You could use the UFO emoji, dude? Easily. Easily. And, you know, I have an alien emoji pillow right next to me right now, and I'm like, why do I do this to myself?

You know, I'm touting that UFOs might not be alien, yet I've got all this alien shit everywhere, But the emoji's cute. I like it. It's no Italian pancake making alien, but it's cute. But yeah. So you would agree that the ETH seems to be the biggest misconception? Oh, yeah.

And I mean, it's been pushed into popular culture for so long now. And like, I've asked around because to me, you got to kind of understand the time periods and what you're dealing with. And I've asked people as like, in the 80s, was there a lot of the, this, you know, alien head kind of stuff that was, you know, people were pedaling around. And they're all like, no, that didn't start until the 90s, you know, the late 90s. So, you know, it's become so prevalent in pop culture that they are synonymous. That's it's aliens, aliens, you know, ride around in UFOs. They're the ones piloting the UFOs.

So it's automatically that connection. But we don't know what the UFOs are. We don't even know if they have pilots. We don't even know if they're physical things. We don't know what we don't know. And I feel like I quoted Rumsfeld, and I didn't want to do that. Too late. Yeah.

But, I mean, like, whenever anybody, whenever anybody, and it happens sometimes, ask me, what is a euophologist? The only answer I can give them is, it's an expert in speculation. That is what a euophologist is. Oh, my God, I love that. I'm going to get that put on my business cards. Yeah, Ryan Sprague, expert in speculation. Yeah, man, it's, again, you're right, it is.

It's become such a meme in popular culture, and I don't know if we're ever going to shake it, but it really could begin with changing the acronym of UFO, and it really could begin when we get past the fact that these craft or these things we're seeing might not be piloted by anything. They very well could be some sort of remote, controlled, thing from another dimension or planet or anything.

It could be anything at this point. Yeah, and I mean, like, even if you look at, you go back to 48 and you look at the Gorman dogfight, that wasn't a UFO. It was essentially a really, it was like a six-inch light that he was, you know, going back and forth with. It's not always, you know, a saucer or it's not always a disc-shaped craft. That's not always what it is. Sometimes it's just an orange light or sometimes.

You know, it's a black triangle. It's so varied that we don't know anything. And it's not like you can hail them down and they're going to come and they're going to get, whatever's in there is going to get out and want to talk to you. They haven't wanted to talk to us for years, except for some people who they have apparently talked to. You know, I haven't had a conversation with Ashtar, but, you know, some people have. And, you know, maybe I would like to know how.

Indrid Cold is doing these days, but, you know, I'm not the person that's going to be interacted with them. But at the end of the day, when you don't know anything, you're just, you're just speculating that they're piloted by aliens. Yeah. That's, that's it. So, like, when you hear a UFO, just think of it as something that appears to be, it appears to be so varied that we don't know a damn thing about it. All we just know is that people, see stuff and then they tell other people about it and they've been doing this since the 40s. That's it. Yep.

I love it. That is the most, that is the most succinct way. I think we could say it, man. People see stuff and they tell people about it. That is UFO reporting. That is the UFO phenomenon in a nutshell. I can't think of a better way to sort of end it there, my man. That was a marathon.

I can't believe we got through that. I'm a little drunk and for some reason I really want pancakes right now. But I mean, you know, if you could find a Denny's, there might be an Italian-looking alien that'll be able to mix you up some. They might be there. I'm not shitting you. I can see a Denny's from my window. It's two blocks from my apartment. Perfect, man.

Perfect. They saw me coming. I'm about to drop some mad bills over there. But before we go, my man, please tell you. us what you got coming up over at the Our Strange Skies podcast, what we can expect, and where we can find it. Sure. Right now, planning a bunch of mini episodes because I'm in the stages of researching Roswell, which is something that I am begrudgingly. Why would you do that to yourself?

I know. I'm begrudgingly doing because it's just, it feels like something that you have to get out of the way. But we got Roswell coming down the pike. I got a great series of episodes that detail the craziness that was the year's 65 to 67. That'll be coming up. And I've got a few interviews lined up. But if you're interested, we are available on every single platform from Apple Podcasts all the way to Spotify. If you want to connect with me on Twitter, I am at Our Strange Skies.

and we have a Facebook page and a Facebook group over there. And we also have an Instagram page at our Strange Skies. So. And a Patreon as well, right? Yes, we do have a Patreon. If you want some bonus content where we look at UFOs in other countries because primarily I do the United States. So we got a couple of great episodes about the Falcon Lake incident and the Charlie Red Star sightings.

and there's going to be a bunch of other stuff that's coming up over there. So definitely go check that out. Awesome, man. Well, I want to thank our friends at Double Density, Rapid Hole Motel, into the portal. They all contributed to this and to all the listeners for sending in questions. This has been so much fun. I can't wait to do this again with you, Rob. And I have to thank you, brother, for taking the time to do this, knocking back out of the bat with me,

and just shooting the shit. because like you said, people see things and people tell people. Some meat and tomatoes just help us. However you fleece to invade you, green cheese. Now you know why we are here. Somewhere in the skies is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with the Entertainment One Podcast Network. To learn more, visit Entertainment One Podcast.com.

Welcome to the CryptaNodot Podcast, host by Mark Stores. Chris Connoisselli, Rob Morphy. Join us weekly as we explore everything from aliens, Cryptozoology, the occult, ghosts, paranormal phenomenon, euophology, and unsolved mysteries, all while keeping a close eye on our reptilian overlords that dwell in the flat, hollow, robot-infested earth. This is the CryptozoLod podcast. We are available at Cryptidotpodcast.com. You can find us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher Radio, IHeartRadio, and YouTube.