Somewhere in the Skies - UFO Happy Hour: UFOs Over Africa

Episode Date: October 25, 2021

On episode 236 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we are joined once again by host of the Our Strange Skies podcast, and UFO encyclopedia incarnate, Rob Kristoffersen. He works his way through the Close Encounters Classification System to bring us a handful of UFO cases from Africa. From strange lights stalking witnesses to ghost rocket-like craft silently dancing through the skies. From small beings giving a VIP tour of their craft to a man in exchange for some water, and what exactly is a "Dumpy" UFO? Grab a beverage of choice, pull up a stool at the cosmic bar, and join is for Volume Seven of UFO Happy Hour! Watch Rob's full presentation of UFOs Over Africa by joining his Patreon at: https://www.patreon.com/yerufoguy Follow Rob on Twitter at: @YerUFOGuy Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Somewhere in the Skies Coffee! https://bit.ly/3mIAq2o Order Ryan’s book in paperback, ebook, or audiobook by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Somewhere in the Skies Subreddit: www.reddit.com/r/SomewhereSkiesPod/ Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at www.CWseed.com Episode edited by Jane Palomera Moore Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Copyright © 2021 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Copyright Disclaimer: Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Terms apply. Hey guys, Ryan here. Before we get to this week's episode, we won. Somewhere in the Skies won two awards at the 2021 Paranormal Podcast Awards, Best UFO Alien Podcasts, and Paranormal Podcast of the year. I was so honored to be nominated amongst so many other amazing podcasts in both categories. And it certainly raised the bar for me personally and for the show. Congratulations to all the nominees and winners.

especially some of our good friends, including the Cryptonaut Podcast for Best Crypted Podcast. Let's Get Haunted for Best Ghost Stories Podcast, lore for best horror podcast, into the Frey Radio for Best Interview Podcast, Monsters Among Us for Best Paranormal Podcast, and Hysteria 51 for Best Paranormal Comedy Podcast. Be sure to check out all these amazing shows and all the other incredible nominees. over at paranormalitemag.com. My special thanks to Paranormality magazine,

to everyone who voted, and especially to you for all of your support along the way. And now for another volume of UFO Happy Hour. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome to Somewhere in the Skies. As always, I am your host, Ryan Sprague, and welcome to another volume of UFO Happy Hour. you know what that means. He is back. The host of the Our Strange Skies podcast. I'm not even sure which volume this is anymore because they are all a blur. They are all the most fun we have here on Summer on the Skies. So I am so honored to once again bring him back to the show. Rob Christofferson, welcome back, brother.

Thanks, man. Appreciate you having me back on. Having me back on the best UFO podcast, it was it was announced yesterday. people, this is the best UFO podcast. It won the podcast award. You, it's, it's, it's, you got the bona fides now. So, well, that's extremely kind of you, man. I mean, I was amongst some heavy competition. You should have been in there, in my personal opinion, and you should have won. But, uh, that's, you know, it is what it is. If I had had a better year, if I had, uh, had a better output, maybe, but, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of, of one of those turning into the kind of person that's just like what I feel like this episode has what it needs and I'm confident that it's the best that I can put forward in that episode. I'll put it out.

Absolutely. Unless it's just a discussion with people, you know, discussion with, you know, friends or if it's a two-hour presentation for a paranormal conference. Exactly. Exactly. No, and that's why I've always respected what you do. You drop it when you want. You put the research in. You're under, you know, no pressure to just get things out, get things out for the sake of it. And that's amazing. So when you do come out with something, it's like a big event. It's like the new, you know, phase four of a Marvel movie coming out. Everyone's like, oh my God. It just drops. So no, man. I highly respect that. And I highly respect all the shows that were nominated for those awards. So thank you to paranormalality. magazine, our good friends, that UFO podcast were right there next to us. So that's why I love this community, man. Podcasting community is the most supportive I've ever come across way more than the UFO

community. Oh, yeah. Which is something we'll talk about tonight for sure. But yeah, if you are watching on YouTube, you do see the continent of Africa in the background there. So that's what we're going to be discussing tonight, man. Our last happy hour was all about UFOs in New York. But we're going to travel.

We're going to Africa where a lot of cases are not talked about here in America about what goes out in Africa. We have very few researchers who have put in the time and effort to do that. And I know you highlight a lot of the research done by one of those individuals in a talk you gave recently at a conference. So would you mind before we dive deep into UFOs in Africa? Tell us a little about the conference you just took part in if you don't mind. and a little about maybe what we'll be talking about tonight. Yeah, so a couple of weeks ago, I gave a two-hour presentation at Pan Paranormal Con. And it was a conference that was meant to be very inclusive to talk about issues that are often left out of the paranormal community because nobody wants to talk about them.

People want to talk about the cases and stuff like that. and like I get that totally but they were issues that needed to be highlighted so for this conference I was asked to actually give a presentation the first time I've ever given a presentation on anything

and I had already started working on like the research for these cases from Africa because I wanted to do an episode and I wanted to highlight a lot of cases so the main

researcher that did a lot of the work on the cases from Africa and it just put the time in for over 20 years was Cynthia Hein. She wrote literally two books about it. She had a magazine dedicated to the subject called UFO Afro News. She ran it for about a decade and a half. The sad part was from what I was able to glean just from the research I was able to do is like UFO research kind of lived and died with her. Like there was definitely, you know, a bunch of researchers in a bunch of different countries that were, you know, feeding her cases and having them published and stuff like that. But when she died in 2000, like it just kind of, you know, died with her. And that's not to say that there aren't investigators today in Africa.

But the problem is, is that if you go to your browser right now, you go to Google and you type in UFOs, Africa, what you're going to get is a BBC article about the aerial school landing. And don't get me wrong, that is one of the most important cases of the last 30 years. Hands down. It's incredibly important. And it's kind of a great representation of what Africa brings to the table in terms of UFO cases, because you get a lot of different. cultural perspectives that you don't necessarily get in the United States because, you know, I'm just going to say it, the United States is very white. So the demographic of cases that you're getting are primarily from white people. And that's not to say that black people do not

experience UFOs in the States, but primarily your reporting comes from white people. That's just something we have to admit. That's just something that it is what it is. But When you go and you look in Africa, that same trends still exist. And primarily, and Cynthia Heinz, she was, she was a white one. So we can, we could totally, you know, that's totally fine. Fault her for that. Yeah, yeah. It's like, no, she was from South Africa.

She's, right, and through and through. So, but one of the things that she highlighted is that there are different reasons why some things get reported as UFOs and some things don't. So the main thing is the cultural context. So in a lot of UFO cases, particularly involving folks of people of color, black African ancestry, they often relate them to spiritual ancestors or ghosts. And that's not to say that, you know, some phenomenon in the United States aren't related to that. Ghost lights are very often, you know, considered to be of a spiritual nature. So

oftentimes these are very similar things, but more often than not, they, they are viewed as ancestral spirits. But what you find more and more is that the cases that Cynthia Hein investigated, the cases that were reported to her. 99.99% were reported by white people. And if they were involving folks of black African ancestry, they were reported to her by a white person anyway. So that's something that is endlessly fascinating to me, something that I don't think that we just have enough to add at this point to really get to the bottom of. But it's important to note these things when talking about the UFOs from other. countries because as much as I don't like or have issues with Mick West, there was that one

map that he retweeted on Twitter a couple months ago. And it's that thermal image of UFO cases from around the world. And you see that, you know, in the United States, that thing is bright as hell. And one of the comments that he made was that this is clearly a cultural thing. And while that's not totally the case, because we have UFOs all over the place, that map also doesn't take into consideration that these are reported cases. So you're going to get less reports from other countries that don't have the investigators. So given that, to an extent, yes, it is a cultural phenomenon through and true, definitely. And you can see this while looking at other countries. So if you look at Puerto Rico, for instance, a lot of the UFO cases that come from Puerto Rico,

they almost seem to be indigenous inhabitants of the island in a certain respect, especially from a lot of the cases that you get are from rural areas in the L. Yonkay rainforest. When you look at cases from Brazil, they are often hostile. Like that is one aspect of these cases is that they are often hostile towards the people that live there. And in the United States, especially right now, given the comments, of UFOs in the UFO community, it's a military bent. You have a very military image of the phenomenon, despite the fact that you have a very long and history case file of just crazy cases all over the place. It has a very predominant image of being a military phenomenon right now. So culture definitely

plays a part in it. So in Africa, I was kind of able to break it down into four different types of cases. And a lot of these are going to be similar to what you see in the United States and such. But the first one that I want to note is very important, which is the idea of these globes or orbs of light. These are very important. And often these cases are reported by, people of black African ancestry, people of color, they are often the ones that interact with these things. And the most ways to come from Africa on this is known as the La Rochelle incident. And this really gets into the cultural aspects of this phenomenon. So on the border of Zimbabwe in the Ambeza Valley is this very beautiful estate called La Rochelle. It was built by

by Stephen and Virginia Cortald, who were these wealthy folks that treated the country right. It was known as Rhodesia at the time, but it would later go on to become Zimbabwe. I think might have even happened before they left. But they built this property that has like this beautiful watchtower. There's like a tea room. There is a building that is called the Fantasy Building. And this is where Virginia Cortald would like, house her orchids and have friends over and stuff like that.

And it's just like, okay, that's an interesting name for the building. Sounds a little like Michael Jackson's house, if you ask me. At first, I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto TV. Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and shows and they were all free.

The truth is our city. It's just so beautiful. On Pluto TV, free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 NX files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials, no credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. Yeah, definitely out there and architectural choices totally just out there, just a combination of mishmash of different things. I love it. Yeah, you can search this place online. You could actually book events there if you want to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it looks really cool. Yeah, to be serious, it reminds me a lot of like the Great Gatsby. You know, like just this huge house. Every room is themed. And yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt, man. But yeah, I did look into the house. And it's crazy. So no wonder something weird happened there.

So yeah, please go on. Yeah. So in 72, the Courtaulds left Zimbabwe. And they kind of just gave the property to the country. And then they just decided to. it's been, it's served a lot of different purposes over the years. It's served as an educational center. It's served as, you know, a place that you can book weddings.

You can book conferences and things like that. But it was overseen by the Forestry Service at the time. And in 1981, August of 1981, when this event happened, there was about 20 staff that worked there. So August 15th, 1981. It was about 5.30 at night. And there was a woman named Eunice Kachti. She taught, I believe, basket making and things like that that you could learn out there. And a lot of the folks live there. So she looked out her window and she could see this globe of light at the top of

Acacia tree. And she saw these three figures right at the base of it just looking up at it. And like she couldn't make out a lot of details. But the one detail that was interesting was that they were all wearing jeans, but they were all just like standing next to each other. And then the next moment, this globe of light just like climbs down the tree, starts rolling around the property, which the one thing that they described this globe of light as is a ball of of fire. But it didn't leave any scorch marks. It didn't burn the grass or the ground.

But it rolled from the tree, ran to the tea room, and then it ran back to the tree. And it kept going back and forth for a while until it just kind of kept going on the property, just rolling around. And you just didn't really know what to make of it. But interestingly enough, like about 15 minutes later, there was another witness named Nasson seemed Gandhi and he he pokes his head out the door because he starts to hear this ruckus. He doesn't know what's going on. So he sees this globe of light

immediately goes back in his house. He's like, nope, that's a ghost. I'm not dealing with that. Pieces out. Nice. But this ball makes its way to this watchtower. And then it starts to climb up the watchtower

and it enters it through this window at the top. And the witnesses that were all starting to mount at this time. Notice that like it looked like the room was on fire, is what they would say. And eventually this ball would start rolling down. Now, as it did, there was, the main witness in this case is a gentleman named Clifford Machina, who was the head gardener at the time there. And he sees this ball rolling out this tower and he decides to follow it. He's going to go hit the emergency bell because he thinks it's just a

fire, a very strange fire. But as he rounds this corner, as it's headed for the fantasy building, he notices three figures. They're just standing there with his back to him. And he believes that it's his boss, a guy named Andrew Connolly. So he yells out, calls one of these figures, Mr. Connolly. They all three turn around. That's when he notices, like, they're wearing these, like, very shiny, overalls, but their heads were just like emitting pure light. And he got terrified. He fell to his knees. He fell forward so he could just like block the light from his face.

He didn't know exactly what he was seeing. But he just covered up for a number of minutes until he brought his head back up and he noticed that everything was gone. So eventually, Andrew Connolly, learns of this incident and gets in contact with Cynthia Hein. Cynthia Heinz, Cynthia Hein comes out not long after this event took place. And she starts interviewing the witnesses. And she talks to Clifford Buchena.

And she asked him, well, what do you think this was? And he's like, I think it was the ghost of my ancestors. And he was a member of the Michona tribe, which many of the employees there were members of that tribe. and there was a spirit in particular that they called a it's called a rave and essentially a rave is like a a spirit that is not at rest because its ancestors have not put it to rest for one reason or another they have some purpose to fill but uh she asked him yeah i think it's a ghost and she just kind of pressed it was like well that's not what your spirits uh your ancestral

would look like, you know. And he had the best response. He responds back, well, you know, times change. Times change. Ancestral ghosts change. We all grow. Yeah, exactly. And the thing is, you know, going through additional cases of Cynthia Hines,

you find these cases where these witnesses see these craft, like something that should clearly be technology. They see people get out of this craft and they still think it's a spirit. That's endlessly fascinating that their beliefs, their tribal beliefs, are, you know, still, you know, widely intact and it's viewed through that lens as opposed to a technological lens or an interdimensional lens. And that's what makes these cases fascinating from Africa is that there are multiple different cultures at one point looking at this phenomenon and coming to different conclusions. So that's important in terms of a lot of the time, why you don't hear a lot

of cases coming from Africa? Because a lot of the inhabitants of Africa do not associate them. with aliens or advanced technology or anything like that. Or I would assume Rob, like they don't report it because it's kind of a given that like your ancestors would eventually visit you in some way, shape or form. I mean, that's a presumption on my part, but I would imagine that's why, you know, and who to report it to. You know, again, if you have a supernatural experience, that's part of your culture or religion, like you just embrace it and move on.

You're not seeking out a UFO researcher. because maybe by chance you had heard that these things happened elsewhere in the world. I mean, and I know that's what we're going to talk about as well is like the conditioning, that kind of pop culture and other countries have when other countries or cultures report these things as well. But wow, that's fascinating. Sorry to interrupt. No, no, it's all good, man.

There's another case kind of like this with a, guy named Maganga, and he was actually just traveling home. He was taking this path, and he saw this ball of light. It just appeared right in the middle of the path, right in front of him. He was terrified. He thought it was ghosts, too. He turns around, starts to run backwards. It appears in front of them again. He keeps turning around until eventually this ball of light goes out, and he feels these like hands around his neck, falls to his knees. and when the hands, the sensation kind of finally falls away, he ends up running home. He ultimately ends up suffering from health effects.

He wasn't able to walk around. He didn't have a lot of energy. They eventually called in a medicine man, and the medicine man gave him a durable remedy that made him throw up this nasty green bile. And he was fine after that. But again, that speaks to that cultural context within this phenomenon is that what one person's unidentified flying weird looking light is something else to someone else and into different cultures in this country or in this continent. I love that. It's Jacques Valet all the way, man.

I mean, come on. It's, yeah, one man's demon is another's fairy, is another's alien. That's what I love about this topic. And I know you and I have discussed that in the past, this amorphous nature to it all, that you can put every lens on it. You know, in America right now, it's military. Elsewhere, it's ancestral ghosts. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's interdimensional beings.

I don't know. But, yeah, those are fascinating. Now, those are part of the first category, right? Yep. Okay. And the second category is the CE1. There are CE1 cases, very much in line with the classic saucers and things like that. And one of the most interesting cases from this tier occurred to a guy named Joe Seeley, who was, he had some money.

And on this particular day, this was in late November, early December, 1980, he was, bringing home a live-in maid servant. He had just hired her, and he was just on the way back to his property when he was driving in Cape Town, South Africa, and he sees this glint in the sky. It's very high up. And then he watches it just descend rather quickly. And what he says he sees is very out of the ordinary. It has a lot of the characteristics of a UFO, but it looks very terrestrial.

So what he said he saw was like a rocket. But this rocket, they weren't hiding it. It said USA on it, it had a flag on it. There were other identifying markers on this thing. And the thing was, it came down at an angle, and then it just kind of, flattened out, hovered above the road. The thing was, he said that this thing was emitting fire out of the back of it. But he never heard a thing.

Like, he got out of his car, looked at this thing. Yeah, it was completely silent, like even as close as it got. I think he said he was about 300 meters or so away. So, you know, fairly close up. Definitely easy to see. This was in broad daylight. So he sees this thing. And it kind of just like revolves around a couple of times.

And like he describes this thing at one point as being quote unquote dumpy, which is like the most hilarious thing that you can say about a UFO. This UFO was dumpy. Okay. Great. Dump's like a truck. I love it. Dumpy.

That is one descriptor I've never heard at any Project Blue Book file to my knowledge or anything. That's, I love it. I love it. I mean, uh, the only other thing that comes. as close as clown pants and like not everything can be clown pants man i mean those are for the worst of the worst you know you're on a hollywood set you throw some clown pants in the air and you try to pass it off as a UFO at least that's what that mufon investigator came to but you know dump a UFO's hovering over the road uh he watches this thing for a couple minutes and then

it just shoots off up into the air but like the the odd thing of it uh he He said it also felt like he was kind of in a vacuum. It was very still, very silent. And like that's one of those features of UFO phenomenon is that you often find these accounts of people saying, well, there was no sound. Hey, there should have been crickets here. But hey, they just shut the hell up for whatever reason. And very similar instance, you know, two witnesses.

The woman that he had in the car was a black woman. So you got different perspectives there, which I appreciate. And I don't know what she thought of it because apparently he fired her not long after for stealing or something like that. I don't know. Yeah, it's like, okay, whatever, Joe. This was all a diversion for her to steal that extra cash in his glove compartment. Oh, that's a bummer because that's who I would want to hear from to see what her. what her perception of the event is like, oh, well.

Yeah, bummer. Exactly. Like, multiple witnesses, potentially from multiple different backgrounds. And again, that's what makes these cases so endlessly fascinating is the perspectives that you're given. But, like, yeah, Joe just kind of a weird dude. Weird. No, like, he, reading it, he just seemed like a kind of a just like a weird dude to begin with anyway. Well, Rob, you mentioned, did he,

He specifically said he saw U.S. stamped on that thing. Am I correct? USA American flag right on the thing. He said that he saw other identifying marks, but he couldn't remember them. And he was considering going in for hypnosis at the time, which was something that Cynthia Hine was recommending that he do.

But yeah, let me, let me, for those that are watching on YouTube, I'll bring up an image. I've got it, the handy-dandy book right here. there you go USA and there's like some some other like numbers that they put at the bottom of the thing

there you go now we're focused but like they he said that there was like a ton of flame coming out of the bottom of the back of this thing oh and then you have the penis UFO here

we can't go I'll just mention this briefly so there's a section in this book about different shapes of objects that are seen. And one thing that seems to come up as like cylindrical shaped objects. They're mentioned like all the time.

And there's this one case from these five guys who are attending a funeral for their friend. And they describe seeing a lozen shaped object with like these balls of light at the end. And like when you see representations of it in UFO Afrinos and in that book, it looks like a penis with some balls on the end. That's like the only way that you can describe it. Yeah, there's no getting around it. You know, call us immature, but come on. I mean, when you see that picture in that book, like, wait, you got to look at the cover again and be like, this is a UFO book, right?

Yeah, right. I didn't mistake this for something. Wow, man. That's a crazy case. Like, I want to be like, okay, it was a rocket from the U.S., but like you said, it was completely silent. And also, what was a U.S. rocket doing over there? I mean, maybe it was landing or coming from space. But again, how could it be completely quiet?

That's what really gets to me on that one. And how can it just like shoot out all that flame and still be so maneuverable? And then zip away. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much high strangeness to that case that like the nice thing is, is like there are those cases that have that subtle high strangeness stuff that just like kind of like, okay, that's a little weird.

But, you know, that's definitely one of those kind of cases for sure. that has that kind of feature, which I absolutely love. What's up, guys, Ryan Sprag here, and I'm just dropping in to remind you about our Patreon campaign. Somewhere in the Skies is always free to consume, but it's not free to create. So if you want to help the show on a monthly basis, we have tons of rewards for you in return,

including shoutouts on the show and website, bonus content and episodes, and free merge. Want to be my guest or pick a topic for the show? You can do that too. So if you'd like to learn more and to help support the show, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Thank you and keep looking up. What's up, guys?

Ryan dropping in to wish you all a very happy Halloween season. And what better way to celebrate than with Jim Harold's Campfire podcast? With over 500 episodes of Campfire, you'll hear stories that will bend your reality and leave you truly spooked. The concept is pretty simple. Jim talks to regular folks about strange stuff that happens to them. And yes, that includes UFOs and UAPs, along with cryptids and of course ghosts. Now, not all the stories are horrifying.

Some are pretty heartwarming, like a visit from a past loved one or a peaceful near-death experience. Regardless, they are true and fascinating stories, as told by ordinary people who've had extraordinary experiences. So, pull up a log and tune in to Jim Harold's campfire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to somewhere in the

skies. And remember, stay spooky. Now, I, correct me if I'm wrong, and I don't know if you planned on talking about this one or not, Rob, but this might be later in the you know, the classification system. But the one where

it, in the driveway, is that one you were planning on talking about? Oh, the Rosmead lights, yeah. If you want. Yeah, this is technically, you could consider it as CETU case, but it's also kind of a ball of light type of case. It's, it takes place, it occurs in this kind of primary school in Rosmead, South Africa. And let me just bring that up. Yeah, of course, man. I put you on the spot. I'm sorry.

Oh, no, you're good, man. You're good. Bringing up the cases. I just got it all written down. Oh, I'm sure. This is November 12, 1972, Rosmead, Karoon, South Africa. And this gentleman by the name of Harold Truder, he was the headmaster of this primary school of the uh i can't remember what the name of it is but uh he had been coming home from a vacation

that he had taken for the weekend and uh you know it had been in a warm day and that's when he noticed this like it was around eight almost eight 30 at night he wrote noticed as he was coming back this um red kind of ball of light in the sky and it was shooting a beam down uh on this tennis court he gets uh he pulls his car into the garage he goes over and that's when he notices that there's like some actual damage to the asphalt on on the tennis court it looks like it's been depressed as if like a great weight has been sitting on it he also finds these like erration holes like in strips on this thing and the interesting thing here is that there are additional eyewitnesses to this case.

There are nearby soldiers at a military camp. One of them, his name was S.J. Rousseau. He was, they had actually taken their mattresses outside because it had been just so hot, so they were just trying to get some air, trying to sleep. And they had these mattresses facing the tennis court, and that's when he saw at about 8.15, this light that just kept circling around the tennis court.

For whatever reason, it was just incredibly interested. in the tennis court. And later on, because he assumed that these were like, I think like headlights or something like that, or tail lights, but he's like, yeah, I didn't see any headlights. It was just this like red light. So, you know, he observes it. And later on, Harold Truder ends up calling the police department out there because he assumes it's just some kind of vandalism.

Somebody came and vandalized a random tennis court on a, on the property. of a, you know, primary school. Like, I understand. It's brand new. I want somebody to face some accountability here. Absolutely. Yeah. And what they found is that whatever it happened,

uh, had launched bits of the tarmac into the back of his garage, which was like, uh, like 200 meters or so away or something like that. So whatever it was. So it had some force. Yeah. And there was a nearby tree that some of these pieces ended up going into. There was actually some burn marks on the tree. And there were like leaves that ended up dying on this thing.

So it's one of those weird like cases that Cynthia Hine had an interesting take on it because like they had called scientists out here. And some of them were saying, well, it just melted in in the sun, which no. like I've seen 100 degree days. I've been in 100 degree days. It doesn't happen up here that often. But it doesn't melt like that. So, you know, they initially threw that out. But the thing that Cynthia Hines said about this case was that she believed that whatever

this light was, it got itself stuck in the tarmac and it essentially pulled itself out. Oh, interesting. Yeah, and ended up ejecting all these small bits of pieces and, you know, everywhere. But like, yeah, these, these were like tiny pieces of the tarmac on that tennis court, but they just like embedded themselves in this tree in the back of the sky's garage. And yeah, it's just, it's one of those weird kind of CE2 cases where there aren't a lot of explanations, but like you've got a tennis court where it just looks like it's depressed into the ground. And not only that, you have like perforated holes.

holes nearby, which was very strange. But yeah, just one of those odd kind of cases that, you know, pop up from time to time. That image stuck in my head when you talked about it in your lecture. So I had to bring it up. It was killing me. But tennis court, that's, I'm imagining like in Superbad, you know, when all the bottles of beer and stuff get shattered. And the guy there is like, F my life, because he's got to clean it out. I'm expecting someone who just finished constructing that tennis court.

And then that day, UFO comes down and completely destroys it. And you just left there. Like, my life. UFO, of course. Right. Act of God. Act of God. Act of God.

It's bullshit. No, the government will pay for that, right? Act of God. Okay. Maybe. You know, if they got government funding into UFOs, maybe. But I don't know. Maybe.

Yeah. I mean, you know. Mac Brazzell, he might have got some hush money. We don't know fully, but, you know, people said he bought some, like, a new truck or something. Good for him. After that, yeah, he needed it, definitely. He deserved it. I know, I know.

Anyways, I'm sorry. I kind of, I shoehorned my way into your categories here. So whatever you want to talk about next, I can't wait, man. Thank you for doing this. Oh, yeah. So, this is kind of. of like the final category is broken down kind of into three parts here, but

the CE3s, there are a lot of similarities to CE3s in the United States. So there are contactees from South Africa, or from Africa. And from South Africa, Elizabeth

Claire, she had an intimate relationship with a man named Acon. And again, I can't, you know, I I can't get the song smack that out of my head every time I hear that because it's Acon. I mean, what are you going to do? But she, you know, claimed to have an intimate relationship with this tall, blonde hair, blue-eyed kind of guy.

Of course. She ended up having a child and it ended up, you know, going to live on his home planet of Matan. And, yeah, she was kind of upset that. she couldn't live on the planet because the oxygen level was not to her sufficient needs. So, you know, it is what it is. She became very well known within Africa for her experiences. She went on a lot of radio programs, which is a lot of the exposure that UFOs got was through radio programs. Cynthia Hein made appearances and a lot of other UFOs.

and this has made appearances on local radio stations and stuff like that. It wasn't often that the newspapers would carry this kind of stuff, but radio, totally there for it. One of my favorite cases is from 1951, from a guy who only gave his first name. He didn't want himself to be identified. His name was Henry. And he lived near the Drackenstein Mountains.

and he was living there. He worked for the British Rios Static Company at the time. He was an engineer. And this was around Christmas time in 1951, and his wife's car. And now his wife was Spanish. He was British. And they had this kind of like beater car,

and it had been experiencing problems. It was a battery issue. So you spend four hours. kind of like tuning the thing up, replacing the battery, all that stuff. And at around 11 o'clock, he's like, well, I'm going to go drive this thing just to charge up the battery for a little bit. So he goes, takes a shower, gets in the vehicle. And he decides to drive up Draconsteen Mountain. And, you know, it takes him about from the time that he leaves to get to the time that he gets to the top.

It takes like 15 minutes. And he stops for a bit, looks around. there's kind of like an area or a pull-off area where you can do that but he gets it back in his vehicle turns around and he's heading down the road again and he gets flagged down by a strange man that kind of just comes out of nowhere

he he's very kind of human looking but like a little shorter faces the features are mostly there. He's kind of got hair that's sticking up, but like, he just waves them down and he comes over to his window. He's like,

do you have any water? And he's like, no, only water I've got is in a radiator. And this dude just starts getting upset. So he's like, come on, there's a stream just down the road. We'll get you some water. So this alien being gets inside

this dude's vehicle. and they drive down to the stream. The only thing that he has to collect it in is an old, it's like an old oil can. So it gets out this old oil can. They clean it out a little bit and they fill it up. And he asks him where he needs to bring him. So he takes him to this area just kind of like in the shadow of the mountain.

It's completely dark. And this was on a night when the moon was out, full moon. And he's like, yeah, just drive over. this way and he's like okay it's a little rough right here but let's drive on over so drives on over and his headlights fall on this UFO that's sitting there uh it's suspended on legs sees kind of like a ladder from the bottom of it and uh this guy ushers him you know has him come on so he escorts him to the UFO he climbs up and into it and there's really just like one circular room. It's fairly large. There's like a bench that runs around the entire length of it.

And you notice is that there's like three other figures. The two of them are attending to this one that's laying down. And one that escorted him in there basically told him that, yeah, he burned himself. So, you know, we just needed some water to address to burn. Cool. Damn, damn, Ricky burned himself again. Always dealing with his BS when we're trying to do these earth excavations. It's Ricky's first day. This is bullshit. But as a reward, this alien being says, hey, just ask me whatever you want.

Like, he does Reddit AMA, like right there. It's pretty cool. And, you know, Henry's an engineer, so he starts asking him questions. He's like, where are you from? He just points in the direction. He's like, from there. Ask him again, from there. Keep it at vague.

I understand. I've listened. I am human. I've seen what we can do. I don't want, I wouldn't want to tell anybody where I'm from if I'm an alien because, holy shit, I see what Elon Musk is doing right now. I see what could happen. It's like, yeah, right?

It's like when you, you, you, someone asks for like your number, but you know you don't want to talk to this person and you you make your phone number like one off so that they will never reach you. I feel like right there. Yeah. We're from right there. Oh, thanks. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, hey, I give him credit for asking that. Like that's a good question to ask, you know. It reminds me again of like Homer Simpson, you know, Homer ask me anything. Anything you want. You get one question. One question? Really? And that was his question. Yeah, that's it.

That's it. Or three questions, I think it was. Really? I only get one question. Yes. That question? Yeah. Yeah.

That's what it reminds me of. I butcher that, man. Wow. Let me stop. You continue. So, Henry ends up asking him, it's like, how does your shipwork? I noticed that there's no motor. He's like, oh, there's no motor.

It's just, we use magnetic force. Cool. Yes, you do. We use. I think he said heavy metals that he create a motion that create their own artificial gravity and bam, just, you know, go anywhere. And the interesting thing is, is like there is a chapter dedicated to this book. And if you enjoy UFOs, get yourself a copy of UFOs over Africa.

This is an amazing book. It has every case that you can think of. And the only one that you can think of right now is the aerial school landing. Let's be honest. But you're going to get so much, so much more in this book. But there's a chapter dedicated in this book to scientific theories about what this alien told him and how it could possibly work. So if you want some science in your book, get that goddamn book. It's amazing.

Still in print today. And the print of the publisher, Horace House, actually does a few different books. one from Irene Granchi, who was a famous Brazilian UFO researcher. She wrote a book decades ago. It's still in print. It's a fun book. But definitely get your hands on this book. But yeah, Henry, he had this case wasn't even originally reported to Cynthia Hein. Cynthia Hein. I don't even know if she was born at this time, but it was reported to J.J. Benitez in Spain. And it ended up appearing in an issue of Flying Saucer Review, like, in the 70s. I remember coming across it, just going through the stuff.

But it was a really small, compact UFO, but, you know, kind of like the TARDIS, bigger on the inside. And kind of had, like, a control panel in the middle of the room, didn't really know what it was for, didn't know. This alien didn't explain things very well. Let's just put a little bit that. Very vague alien, yeah. You know what, man, it reminds me so much of the, uh, The Herb Schumer case. Like kind of giving a tour of the inside of a craft.

But when you ask, like, what does this do? They're like, don't worry about that. Don't worry about that. Yeah, exactly. There. It's like, oh, okay. Well, I should have changed my question then. I mean, those aliens fed him so much bullshit.

I felt bad for, you know, my question is, you know, what did they really need the water for? I don't believe it was for a burn. Like, we hear this all the time that, like, maybe water is a source they need. why are so many UFOs seen around water? Yeah, I mean, the possibilities are endless. But that's interesting that the one thing this alien would need was water. You got to, you do have to wonder.

You do. Yeah. Oh, and there are cases from Africa in which UFOs appear. There's a case with this one UFO that appeared over this woman's pool pump. And like, every time I hear a pool pump, I can't not think of Ed Walterson's crazy crap, just because it's just like the pool pump. The pool pump was the antagonist of that entire set of encounters that he claimed to have. It was always that goddamn pool pump. But this woman sees the, like, she thinks that her pool pump is kind of messing up because she hears this

like giant hum and like she's just, this is like 2, 2.30 in the morning. She's over it. She goes and she, she sees this like blue light right next to her pool pump. It's like, oh, God, is it going to catch on fire? And eventually this light just like lifts off, lifts away. She sees it through the neighbor's window or something like that. So the next morning her husband goes outside and notices that there's like, I don't know, 300 less gallons in the pool. Whoa.

Well, okay. Well, talk about siphoning. What the hell was that much water for? Yeah, exactly. Holy shit, man. That's just like, I was not expecting you. to say that much. I was like, oh, maybe like, maybe they took a foot off the pool. Like, maybe they were like, the kids, they can't swim in four feet deep yet. So let's put it

down to three feet for the, uh, the human kids, but yeah, whoa, pretty significant. Uh, there's, there's another story in which, uh, uh, this couple, they had a water tank that was like two inches from the top. They looked at it like one night right before when inside went to bed, came out the next morning the thing was bone dry there was no evidence of a leak or anything like that but there were reports of UFOs in the area so it's the only explanation that fits here you decide yeah exactly exactly i want to believe i want to believe like everybody you know absolutely man i love it that now i hope that they know there was chlorine in that that could change everything that could that could be a whole different ballgame man uh that could ruin an alien

powered system, I'm assuming, you know, you get some... It's like putting diesel in your little, you know, moped or something. Oh, yeah, you're going to ruin that thing. Your skin's going to get all wrinkly if you're in the chlorine too long. Oh, God. Yeah, it's terrible. The things we could teach these aliens and they can teach us.

Anyways, I digress. What else you got for us, man? So I'll hit you with a couple more. here, two more. Cool. So one of the kind of other sort of well-known

cases from South Africa is known as the Mindalur incident. And this goes back to January of 1979. Megan Gazette, she was up late reading around midnight.

And her son, Andre, gets up, says he can't sleep. So they end up going to kitchen to get some water and that's when they hear their dog whose name was cheeky uh just uh barking up a storm so she opens the door yells for cheeky to come in and that's when she noticed that cheeky just jump the fence like you know some olympic kind of shit here and uh she uh she she and andre just run out chase the dog up a couple streets up into this service road that was being built at the time

and that's when they noticed like uh what they thought was a plane coming in for landing. She described it as being like a pink light and then getting closer. That's when she noticed that this was kind of a saucer-shaped object that was surrounded in light. It had legs down that it was standing on. And she and Andre just like stood there for, you know, a few minutes. And that's when they noticed these six figures that got out of it.

And they started, like, moving around and kind of messing with the soil and the asphalt and stuff. Most of these figures were, like, clothes from head to toe. They were wearing kind of like a single onesie kind of deal here. But two of them, they described them kind of like wearing, like, doctor's lab coats and pants. They had dark olive skin. they had like beards black beards black hair and when one of them started to play with the soil in their hands they noticed Megan and Andre just standing there staring at them and like these figures were conversing back and forth in languages like it seemed like two totally different languages

so the the figure that with the black hair comes up to Megan bows and starts talking to her in a language that she didn't understand. At first, she was okay, and then she just got terrified. So she tells Andre to go and get his father. She's kind of anchored to the spot. She's kind of paralyzed. She says she can't move. And when they see that she is terrified, the beings all of a sudden disappear.

Like they just reappeared back in the ship. Now, initially, this thing doesn't take off. The legs of this thing, She describes the legs as getting bigger, and it starts, like, walking around a little bit, like, you know, or the world style. Yeah. Until it just flew into the air, but I'm like, no. That's pretty creepy, yeah. No H.G. Wells for me, please.

That's not what I want in my UFO landings. My UFO cannot handle that. You know, just I don't have the mental capacity to make it through a day most days. So I don't see that being a good, a good thing to happen to me is like, hey, you know what? Why don't you see my UFO do some crazy stuff on its legs? Yeah. Yeah. Bust a move, UFO.

Bust a move. I love that, man. That's so cool, though. Especially since they bowed, like, how polite. How polite of them. Yep. Yeah, just, you know, incredibly polite and just doing what they're doing. And it kind of has like the George O'Barsky Stonehenge vibes of, you know, collecting soil, looking at stuff.

And then just like getting back in your ship and taking off. Isn't that? I love these older cases where like they actually seem to have a purpose, you know, these beings or intelligences, like collecting soil, collecting water. Unfortunately, sometimes experimenting on human beings or animals even. And if you, you know, buy into the whole cattle mutilation thing. Oh, yeah. That's interesting. So is that kind of how that case ended?

It kind of walked around and then maybe it needed to get a running start. That's kind of what I'm picturing. You know, sometimes that happens. The craft and the Lonnie Zamoa incident needed that little boost to get into the air. And then, you know, it was good. It was good. You know, sometimes you need that boost to get up. And there's no shame in that.

look, I get it. Sometimes people got lifted trucks. You need, maybe sometimes you need a stool. I don't know. Sometimes it's just tough to get up into those things. But I know. I know that feeling. Oh, yeah. Yep. Been there. I mean, if you grew up, you know, in the Airon X or like anywhere beyond New York City, lifted trucks, man, they were just a, they're just a way of life around here. Still are. Yeah, I was going to say. Something's never changed. man. Even in Syracuse, some things never change. Exactly, man. Exactly. Oh, love it. Awesome. And you have one more for us, you said? I do.

I do. So wouldn't be complete if we didn't have a CE4, an alien abduction kind of case. Let's go there. And what's interesting here is, like, the abduction cases, you have your traditional abduction

cases. They come up here and there. But the cases that Cynthia Hein talked about were cases in which it seemed like they were trying to take

the soul out of the body almost and just this feeling of being lighter and being lifted out. In one case in particular is it involves a man named Bruce.

He is of black African ancestry and he was from Zimbabwe. And in November of 1989, this is when abductions are huge in the United States

and because they are huge in the United States, they start to receive exposure in other parts of the world. And in Africa itself, there are cases that start to come forward from people in the late 80s of abductions. So that's just the landmark, you know, the impact that like books like communion and intruders were having at this time,

those two books are kind of monumental to the public face of UFOs and aliens. And in particular also is the, when the Roswell incident appeared on Unsolved Mysteries. Those two things right there, those books and that special, because that Unsolved Mystery Special was like half the show. It was huge. It like kind of catapulted UFOs into like a mainstream that it had never seen before. Like this was, it had a whole new image as opposed to. to before where, you know, it wasn't getting this serious treatment.

And it was seen as like, oh, the government's covering it up and, and, like, pure cover-up and stuff like that. This now was a wider-facing phenomenon. Not only that, you had other individuals now feeling comfortable enough to tell their stories, which is important. So, yeah. So, Bruce, his first experience, November of 1989, he worked in some feelings. in Zimbabwe.

And he came home, he showered, he lived with his mother. And as he was going to sleep, because he didn't eat, he just took a shower and decided to go to bed. And he described how his hands and legs just like all of a sudden,

as he's like trying to fall asleep, they felt dense. And he had this feeling like someone was in the room with him. He heard this loud, whirring sound like a motor. and his first thought was, this is a ghost. This is, you know, this is absolutely terrifying. So it eventually passes.

But it makes him remember that these incidents had happened to him in his childhood. And they just kept coming up over and over again, this feeling of paralysis, this feeling of like, you know, weight and weightless. and such. But the follow-up experience that Bruce had was just utterly terrifying. And it had, it seemed to be related to health problems that he was having. This was in July of 1990, and Bruce, he kind of wakes up. He's feeling ill that day.

His skin was actually burning. He said his throat was sore and that his eyes were actually swollen. He couldn't keep any food down at the time. So one thing that he noted was that a lot of the times when he had experiences, sore throat was a common feature of them. He would often suffer from them afterwards. But he started to recall that there was one experience, and this experience had happened a day or two before.

he was in that similar feeling of just feeling dense and weighed down and unable to move. And that's when he noticed that there was a figure sitting in a garden chair over by his door. And this strange being when he noticed that Bruce noticed him got up. He said that he floated on over to him. And he described them like, description's similar to a gray in many ways, but he moved towards him, started to pull back on his hair and said,

if you tell anyone about this, I'll kill you, I'll finish you off. And Bruce tried to fight back, pushed him right back down on that bed. And this was just, he said that the face was just very white. So like very gray in description, just like very,

white, non-human figures, and that terrifying description of it gliding. Just, no, thank you. But there was physical evidence in this case. But for instance, he noticed that the next day as he got up, because he had, I believe he had a dirt floor. And he noticed that in the floor there were these very small-looking footprints. that led from his wardrobe to the front door, and they just disappeared. No, thank you.

No, thank you. Yeah, like, very, like, there are other similar cases in which there was a woman named Caroline who had this, like, really dramatic encounter in her bedroom where she saw this kind of globe of light come into her bedroom. room. But the weird thing is, is like, through the roof, she could see this, like, tunnel of light that connected to a UFO outside. She could actually see the trees from inside her room. And she described this weightless feeling and stuff. And eventually she was able to get up. She wakes up her mother, wakes up her sisters. They're all sitting in the living room. And all of a sudden, she starts to feel this again. And her sisters, when they were talking to her, describe how when they were looking at her, looking at her, our eyes were like brilliant orbs of light. Like, um, some like, uh, you know, Ghostbusters 2, uh, Yanoshen in the hall. Yeah. Light eyes. I, I'm getting those vibes and I do not like it.

I mean, if you're, GB2 vibes. Yeah. Total GB2 vibes. Uh, you know, he's got that painting of Vigo around and, you know, he's just doing his best to restore it. It's, it's that kind of vibes. but the DE4 cases are incredibly interesting because there is a range of them. It's just in like the very, from the very strange to the very typical, there were two women, Phyllis and Diane. I will recommend you go watch my presentation or listen to it because like these two women, one of them was just not having it the entire time she was on this craft every single time. She was resisting.

She was like, no, I don't want to go. And they're just like, it's okay. Everything will be fine. And, like, they're telling her to get onto this table. And she's like, no, I'm not getting on this table. She's just like, all right, you know what, whatever. You're persistent. I'll get on the table.

And she just goes to this. Oh, my God, man. I'm imagining, like, Phyllis and Diane, like, what was that old show where the women worked in, like, the bottle factory, you know, doing it our way? or whatever that was. Yeah, I'm getting, I'm getting those vibes. It's escaping my mind, but I've seen like, Phyllis, no, no, we're not going. Diane, I want to do this.

Let me do this. You're either my friend or you're not. We're going to do this together or not. That's amazing. And it's funny because like Diane, like when this is going down initially, they're seeing this object. She's kind of reticent, but like Phyllis, who's her mother is like, come on, Diane. And if you don't look at this thing, you're going to be missing out. Live a little.

That's amazing, man. Well, hey, you know what? That actually, to be serious, that reminds me of, like, the juxtaposition with Betty and Barney Hill. Like, Betty was so, like, let's do this. Like, show me the star map. What do you want? Can I take something to bring back? And then, meanwhile, like, Barney is just like, F no, get me the F out of here.

I want nothing to do with it. It's interesting when you have two people having an experience and how, like, one really wants to do it. And it seems like always the other one doesn't. I don't know if that's true in all cases, obviously. You look at like the Aligash case or something like that. But that is interesting when you have a pair of people having a singular experience. It always seems that one really wants to embrace it and one wants to reject it. I came across a case like that with a mother and daughter as well,

where the mother thought it was like the most euphoric, amazing experience. And the daughter was like, nope, hate it, hate it, would it want to date it? So I don't know. No, no. And I mean, like, if you want to know about that case, folks, you need to go get Ryan's book because it's in there because I've read it before. And there is a terrifying moment in that book involving when the mother comes into the room, when her daughter's about to go to bed and there's something that follows her in and I don't like it. I don't like it.

But you know what? It's a hell of a read. So go get somewhere in this guy's. It's a good book. You know what? I'm in it. So go get it. You are.

You are, which I'm so honored. Yes. If that is not a selling point, I honestly don't know what it is, to be completely honest. I mean, shamelessly self-plugging. I'm on the best UFO podcast of all time. It's been announced, folks. Okay, it is final, the ballots were tallied, okay? And it was awarded last night on the best UFO podcast in a hell of a UFO book.

Just consume, consume. I, you know, I'm all ascending, brother. Yeah, I'm here for shameless plugs. You can pay me later, PayPal me, whatever. Yeah, virtual check is in the mail. No, hey, that's a lot of pressure. But no, we're not here to talk about that. We're here to talk about UFOs in Africa, man.

And you, of course, I knew you would bring it. Like, I had to do very little lifting in this episode. So I have to thank you for that. But I guess to kind of, unless you have anything else, any other cases you want to share, I love to kind of not conclude because we never conclude these things. Nothing's ever solved. Nothing's ever answered. More questions than answers.

Always. What do you think we need to do here in the United States to really invite more of a world, a global view of these cases? Because again, we get so caught up in like, you know, Roswell and the Tick-Tag and like all these things happening here in America when there's a whole world out there. I mean, I'm doing right now, I'm looking into Bolivia. I'm looking into Russia. And it's just blowing my mind how much data is out there globally that we're not taking into consideration when we're researching, when we're even investigating. So big loaded question for you. What do we do to really welcome the rest of the world to like share these things, report these things?

Or can we even do that? I don't know. I think there are a bunch of things that we can do. these cases deserve a seat at the table with every well-known case that is out there, you know, for all your Betty and Barney Hills, for all your, you know, Belgian UFO waves, and for all your Antonio VES, all these cases deserve a seat at the table. For one thing, people need to talk about them more. Like, seriously, I don't, whenever anybody is like, I wanted to cover a case, but I saw that you covered it and I didn't want to do it. Cover it.

Like these cases deserve to be covered. Get yourself a copy of this book. I like I will, you know, shill for Cynthia Hind all freaking day. She's no longer with us. So honor her work. Go get UFOs over Africa. Go read the cases in this book because they're endlessly fascinating for one. Two, you're going to find the similarities, the differences, which is important to note. I also think allowing people to tell their story. stories is one of the most important things that anybody can do regardless, especially now with the way that we could bridge technology and just do this. We can do this podcast, Ryan. We're hundreds of miles apart, but we can do it. Like, opening those doors to people in other countries

that want to tell their stories is incredibly important. And it gives this phenomenon a more broad view, gives it a more inclusive view, it gives it a better view because you have a more complete picture when you can see all of these cases from all over the world and see how they are the same, how they're different, how they affect people. And giving these cases a seat at the table is incredibly important. And that was one of the things that I wanted to do with my presentation is give these cases a voice that they definitely needed because, again, there are probably investigators in Africa, but it's just they are not easy to find. Again, if you try and Google UFOs in Africa and like, yeah, they're probably better search

terms that you can use. There aren't a lot of people that you can probably report to, but like encourage those people to report where they can report to. If it's to move on, report to move on. If it's to Newford, report to Newford. If it is a podcaster that you feel comfortable sharing your story with, report it to them, send them an email, get in touch with them and say, hey, I've got a story. Can I tell you my story?

Absolutely. And that's definitely important. And, you know, if you can feature these stories on podcasts, great. They deserve to be known. They deserve to be recognized. and, you know, just they deserve to be embraced by the UFO community. Even if they, you know, know about them or probably don't. Because, again, this was an issue that I started to think about in 2018.

I'm like, why aren't there a lot of UFO cases that come from Africa? Why is it that the only UFO case that we talk about from Africa is the aerial school landing? Again, a very incredibly important incident, but not the only one. So, you know, that's kind of what fueled this. But like, when I listened to the Saucer Life episode about Elizabeth Clara, I was like, holy crap, there are other cases from Africa? Yeah. Right.

That's important. So to anyone listening to anyone that has a platform, just give these cases, give these witnesses, a platform to share their stories. And, you know, the more well-known that these stories become, these cases, you know, the better view and more inclusive view that we have of this phenomenon. Absolutely, man. I couldn't have said it better. I mean, if you have that platform, amplify those voices,

especially, you know, voices of color, who we don't honestly hear a lot from in this community. And, you know, that's a whole other issue in episode. we could have as two white guys talking here on a podcast in America. But it's true. You know, like they're out there. And it's a matter of welcoming more different types of communities in here to have this human conversation. And I feel like that's probably why a lot of people don't come forward or report things. They don't feel like they can or that they have a place.

But like you said, everyone's got a seat at the table. Nobody knows when that turkey is going to be done and when we can all eat because we have no idea what the hell is going on. But like, why not get every viewpoint, every culture, every everything? I just, that's why I got involved with this topic. I don't know about you, but it was to find a community. And the more I got into it, the more I realized, yeah, there's going to be those darker corners of these communities always that don't want voices amplified and don't want this or that. But overall, man, it's just so, what better community, more open-minded than people who believe in aliens visiting our planet. So that's all I'll say.

That's my kind of soapbox moment. Like, invite people into the conversation that you normally wouldn't. And let's all just try to find answers together. Yeah, not just, you know, people of color. They're definitely important. They, their voices need to be applied. LGBTQIA plus people they deserve to have their voices amplified

women deserve to have their voices amplified like these people deserve to have their stories told that have a place for them and to contribute to this phenomenon because it's a global phenomenon there's no way to get around it

it's a global phenomenon they are all part of this world and the more inclusive that you make it, the better a grip you have on this subject overall, but a better community that you're going to, you know, ultimately create. Absolutely, man. When that UFO finally lands and we're ready to finally make grand contact, they're not going to give a crap what country you're from, what religion you believe in,

what color you are, what orientation, it's all, it's going to be all of us working together. It's beautiful. I love it. And I love that you highlighted these cases for us, man. And I also love that you shared your personal experiences over on Our Strange Skies recently with the gentleman of astonishing legends and everything. So I got to ask, can you tease us a little about that episode and what you got coming next over there at Our Strange Skies? Yeah, absolutely. So I sat down with Scott Philbrook and Forrest Burgess from Astonishing Legends. and Rich Adam, who is the screenwriter of the Mothman Prophecies, TV writer, good friend of mine. And I basically said, hey, I've never given people the chance to just, like, grill me about my experiences. So here's two hours, have at it.

And, you know, we talked about some of my experiences that I've talked about on other pods and some experiences that I've never talked about before. and we kind of just started to like hash it out and it's a great conversation. The presentation I gave for Pan ParanormalCon is online. You can listen to the audio on the Our Strange Guys feed right now. If you want to watch the video, if you want to watch me, be hectic for two hours on a video. You can subscribe to my Patreon. Oh, yeah, subscribe to the Patreon.

You'll get to watch that. But coming down the line, I am in research. on an episode about the aerial school landing and other landings at other schools, because there are lots of them. Like Preston Dennett documented a bunch of them in a book. And like that book is endlessly fascinating. He's an interesting figure. I've been doing this a long time in this field.

But we'll be talking about the aerial school landing. I'm in the beginning stages of research on a couple specific abduction cases. So that's pretty much what you got coming on down the line. If you subscribe to the Patreon later, this, it would have already come out by the time this episode comes out. But there will be an episode about further African cases that I just recently stumbled upon that is like, oh, hey, that's cool. Oh, there was a UFO wave in South Africa in 1972. Cool. Let's talk about that.

So, yeah, more cases from Africa. If you're so interested, check out the Patreon. Awesome, man. And again, you're not just a one-trick UFO pony. I know you do another podcast as well. Would you mind telling us a little about that before we say goodnight here? Yep. So my other baby is rolling through the realms. It is a Dungeons and Dragons podcast. If you enjoy tabletop role-playing games and, you know, if you want to hear conversations about how our cleric is more like a wizard, go check that out. I'm also a part of the order of podcasters, which if you do, if you really into UFOs, go check this podcast out. We're coming up on our season finale, and there's about 20-some-odd episodes in the feed right now. But it's basically kind of like if the X-Files folks had regular day jobs, what would they be like? And I play a George Norrie-like character that definitely takes it to extreme.

If you will listen to that first episode, I definitely talk about, you know, pizza rolls giving your mouth third-degree burns. It's the way it is, you know? You got to celebrate those moments. So if that appeals to you, and if, you know, a scripted show about people trying to save horrors from coming into our world, go check out the order podcasters too. I love it, man. I love everything you do. You are a Renaissance man through and through. So as usual, I have to thank you for coming on UFO Happy Hour, our fan favorite series with Rob Kerstoffersing.

And as always, brother, thank you for coming on someone with skies today. I appreciate it, man. Thank you for having me on again. These are always great, man, because it's just, you know, let's bring all this crazy shit to the table and let's talk about it. Let's do it. I'm hungry.