Somewhere in the Skies - UFO Landings UK with Philip Mantle

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

On episode 262 of SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES, we welcome first time guest, Philip Mantle, to discuss his latest book, UFO Landings UK, in which he details hundreds of shocking UFO landings that have been purported to have taken place since the early 1900s and up until today. Mantle also discusses some very intriguing developments in the Pascagoula UFO incident, including never-before heard information on additional witnesses and documentation that bolsters the credibility of this extraordinary close encounter. Order Philip Mantle's book at: https://amzn.to/3MhBOoq  Help the people of Ukraine: https://bit.ly/37ELIRS Patreon: www.patreon.com/somewhereskies Website: www.somewhereintheskies.com YouTube Channel: CLICK HERE Official Store: CLICK HERE Somewhere in the Skies Coffee: CLICK HERE Order Ryan’s book in paperback, ebook, or audiobook by CLICKING HERE Twitter: @SomewhereSkies Follow Chrissy Newton on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/chrissynewton Instagram: @SomewhereSkiesPod Read Ryan’s Articles by CLICKING HERE Watch Mysteries Decoded for free at: https://bit.ly/3rJpbd7 Opening Theme Song, "Ephemeral Reign" by Per Kiilstofte SOMEWHERE IN THE SKIES is part of the eOne podcast network. To learn more, CLICK HERE Copyright © 2022 Ryan Sprague. All rights reserved. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/somewhere-in-the-skies. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. Hey guys, Ryan here. The Summer in the Sky's podcast is a labor of love every week. And with that comes many different costs to keep the show running. That's where our Patreon campaign comes in. You give what you think the show is worth. There's different rewards available all the time, including shoutouts on the show, early editions of main episodes, bonus episodes and content, and very soon monthly patron hangouts, where we sit back and chat all things UFOs. So I hope you'll consider becoming a Patreon subscriber today. To learn more and to join, visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies. Thank you for your support and keep looking up. This is Somewhere in the Skies with Ryan Sprague. Welcome everyone to Somewhere in the Skies. I am your host, Ryan Sprague, and I have been waiting a very long time to connect with who we'll be speaking to with today.

And that is Philip Mantle. He is one of my favorite UFO researchers over in the UK. He has done everything from investigating UFO crashes, landings, close encounters, the alien autopsy as well, which we'll have to talk to him about on another episode. But today we're here to talk about his new book, and that is UFO landings, UK. Now, a lot of people know the Rendezham Forest incident, you know, the Roswell crash here in the United States. but the UK has a very rich history with UFO landings, a rich history that I was not fully aware of until I looked at this huge compilation

that Philip has brought to us in the form of his book. So without further ado, I'm going to bring him in for the very first time to somewhere in the skies. Philip, welcome to somewhere in the skies. My pleasure. Good evening, Ryan. Good evening. Yeah, it's just turning noon over here in the States. So I got to thank you for spending your night with me here to talk all about your new book.

But, you know, before we do that, before we talk landings, I always have to ask first-time guests for those who may not be familiar with you, with your work, the quintessential origin story. How did you get involved with UFOs? That one that you're probably used to answering. Yeah, it's a long time ago, Ryan. I mean, when I was, you know, a young fellow at high school, I had three or four interests. I mean, I'd always had an interest in not all things paranormal. I mean, literally.

And I was also interested in the space race at that time and horror movies. But the paranormal was top of the list. And I was fortunate in some respects that literally the other side of the street from where I lived, my best friend's grandmother lived there. and she used to go to a local spiritualist church. So I tagged on a few times. I've just found it fascinating. I didn't necessarily believe everything they were saying,

but I still found it fascinating. I was interested in the space race and astronomy, and I read one astronomy book. I can't remember the title of it all these years later, but it had one chapter in it about UFOs. and it basically dismissed the subject, which I found rather odd, to be honest, Ryan, because elsewhere in this book,

there was lots of theoretical things about, you know, astronomy. And I thought, well, you can theorise about astronomical phenomena, but you don't accept the UFO phenomenon. I found it peculiar. But nonetheless, that sparked the interest. So I left high school at the age of 16, with no qualifications, didn't know what I was going to do with myself.

But this interest was there. So I read what I could about it, which wasn't a lot you could get your hands on in those days. And then in late 1978, I went to work in what was then West Germany. Over the winter, I worked there. Couldn't speak a word of the language. So I phoned my mother and said, can you send me some books?

I can sit down on an evening. You know, I can sit and watch the TV, but I can't understand it, you know. So she sent me a box of books, and lo and behold, every single one were UFO books. I don't know where she got them from. So I would sit there on an evening and read away. So when I returned home in, you know, I think it was March, 1979, I had a bit more information, if you like. Then of course, the Spielberg movie, Close Encounters, came out, and I went and watched that. And I used to live then about five miles from the city of Leeds in West Yorkshire, which is in the

north of England. And Leeds then, as it does now, publishes an evening newspaper. It's called the Yorkshire Evening Post. Now, just around the corner from where I live, my aunt used to live, and she used to obtain a copy of this every night and she brought it around one night right and pointed to an advertisement in it coming up that sunday was the first ever meeting of the yorkshire UFO society in leeds now in in in in this period of time in in the UK on a sunday everything everything everything so i caught the bus i didn't drive in those days i caught the boss in the I caught the boss into Leeds. The location was a place called Centenary House, North Street, Leeds.

In our goes, I finds the room that hired a room in this building. And there was about 20 or 30 people there. Great to see a pile of books for sale. That pleased me. Now, the York's UFO Society was formed by two brothers. That is Graham and Mark Berthel.

And they'd obviously been involved in the subject for a few years. They put on a presentation, Ryan, and, you know, that was me. I felt, you know, I was home. I found my niche in life. I just wanted to know more.

Graham, of course, went on several, some years later to successfully edit and publish UFO magazine here in the UK that sold in its tens of thousands. It was a newsstand magazine. Sadly, he died, you know, unexpectedly a few years back. But nonetheless, I felt this is it.

So I actually joined the Yorkshire UFO Society. I think I paid two pound for the whole year. And we used to have monthly meetings. And by the time, you know, the fourth, the fifth meeting, you know, I were ready to jump in with both feet. And that's how it all started. Had it not been for that advertisement in the Yorkshire Evening Post, I would never have known about this society starting.

But for me, it was the right place at the right time with the right people. I just felt very fortunate. Wow. See, I love hearing those stories. You know, many people have a sighting. That's what gets them interested. Or like you, it's complete happenstance. I recall Stanton Friedman even saying he accidentally, I believe, received a book in the mail about UFOs, flying saucers.

And it changed his life. He was, I mean. That advertisement in the Yorkshire Even in Post changed my life, you know. And I'm forever grateful for it, you know, because where I lived was a small town. You know, there wasn't much happening, wasn't a great deal to do. Leeds was a nice enough city. Still is. But, you know, I had no formal education.

The high school I went to was absolutely hopeless. But I always had this thirst for knowledge. I'll give you an example at high school. It wasn't a church school, but once a week we used to have R.I., we called it, religious instruction. So we were taught that what was in the Bible was verbatim, and this is it. And we're only one lesson a week,

and I was always the idiot at the back of the room would put his hand up. And, you know, I don't think this can't be right. You know, so I think around about the same period, I'd literally sat down one, you know, every night and read a bit of the Bible until I'd finished it. So I thought, if I'm going to get in trouble, at least I want to know what I'm getting in trouble for, you know. Right. So I always wanted to understand things.

I wasn't just, I wasn't, I wasn't happy just sat there letting other people tell me what was going on. And, you know, that continued when I joined the Yorkshire UFO Society. Amazing. Question everything. Question everything. Well, okay. So, you know, throughout the years, decades, you've researched many, many cases. You've investigated some personally as well.

And that kind of culminated into one of many of your books. But the one we'll be talking about today is UFO Landings, UK. Like I mentioned, there have been so many that I was not aware of. We know the pinnacle cases, the Rendell Shums and whatnot. Even Broadhaven, a lot of people are familiar with that one. but your book has hundreds upon hundreds. So before we even talk about some of the cases, Philip, where did these come from?

How did you obtain these files? That's a good question because, you know, when we started, Ryan, there was no internet. Right, right. There was no online service. So when you try to, you know, research cases, you either did it in person, I mean, literally in person, or you would write that, you know,

the old-fashioned way you would write a letter or phone someone. I mean, these were about the only ways you could contact people. We were fortunate when I joined the Yorkshire UFO Society, as it went into the 1980s, there is a national park in North Yorkshire. It's called the Yorkshire Dales. I'd recommend every American tourist to head there. It's a beautiful part of the world. And yes, I am biased.

but it's the part of the world, that parts of it were the Bronte sisters, Rothering Heights and so on. But areas in and around the market town of Skippton in the Yorkshiredale, for whatever reason, Ryan, had a lot of sightings being reported. And this is, you know,

a lot of it is what we call semi-rural. When you leave the town, there are no cities. When you leave the towns, there's villages, Moore's, especially one place called Calton Moore, just outside of Skippton. It's Heather that I know livestock kept there. They do game birds shooting there, but that's about it.

And we made it our purpose to make ourselves as visible as possible. We would leave our contact details with local police stations, you know, libraries, even put posters up in some of the local pubs. And one of the things when people contacted, one of the things we used to ask is how have you found us? You know, have you found our address or our phone number? So we knew what was working. So there was a time in the early 1980s that we were, you know, bombarded with sightings from these areas and couldn't cope at times almost. So, you know, I think I joined Euphology at the right time.

I joined with the right people, Mark and Graham Berzel. And we were just fortunate that there was a lot of things happening for us to get our teeth into. And off we went and we were up and running. You know, I learned to drive, got my own transport. And there was no stopping us. It was as simple as that. And we made ourselves very, very visible. And we do lots of local lectures.

I mean, we do the Women's Institute. I mean, you name it, just to get the word out that here we were. And that's how our information started to be gathered. Interesting. Now, I recall in the book, you had mentioned in the introduction that you had personally investigated one of these UFO landings. Is that true? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, once we got up and running, the area that I lived in was covered by another newspaper. It was called the Wakefield Express. I'm sure you've all read it. I got it right on my coffee table. And I did a local feature in it, you know, and you stand there holding your camera looking stupid, you know.

But they ran my phone number. And we had a lady callers, just a local lady. And she said, Philip, you won't believe me, you won't believe me. I said, well, give us a chance. No, you won't believe me, you won't believe me. Now, the area that I lived in was an industrial area. mainly coal mines. My father worked down the mines all his life.

And this lady only lived a few miles away. She lived in a town called Normanton in West Yorkshire. And that was a coal mining town at that point in the history. The mines have all gone now. So myself and Mark Bursle went to see this lady. She called Mrs. Westerman. Now Mrs. Westerman lived in a cul-de-sac. and there was no houses opposite

and her house was a terraced house but it was what we call an elevated house so you walked up some steps to get into the front door at the bottom of the road at the end of the cul-de-sac were some trees, some fields

and some electricity pylons that went to the next from the nearby power station at Ferrybridge now she had several children and it was about five of them And it was just after lunch. And they were outside playing a ballgame. It was a beautiful sunny day.

And it was a made-up ball game. It's the same kind of thing I played when I was their age. And she was actually washing the dishes after lunch. And one of the children came running in and said, Mom, Mom, there's an airplane crashed in the field. So she came out of the front door. And because it's an elevated house, right and she could actually see from a front door across these fields she said philip it wasn't any

airplane it was something shaped like a mexican hat but like a silver graying color on the ground so she got all of the children they walked down to the bottom of the cul-de-sac through the trees now at one point you go down a little dip so you lose sight of the field above you so they walked up the other side and this field was bordered by a small fence. This thing is sat there on the ground, but now there are three tall men, all wearing white suits.

They had some kind of visor over their face. She was that close she could say they didn't have gloves on. They had mittens. And they were waving something over the ground. One of the children tried to climb the fence, but she held him back. And at this point, these three beings walked to the back of this thing. it then rose up, stopped in the air, and bump was gone once it came in a flash.

No noise, you know, nothing. So she went home and she sat down that night to watch the local TV news. It's going to be on the TV. It's bound to be. There's a major motorway passes Normanton. It's called the M62. Thousands of cars go by. It was a beautiful sunny day.

Lots of people out and about. Nothing. I mean, nothing. She bought the local newspaper. Nothing. She even went and asked some of her neighbors if they'd seen anything. And not a thing at all. Now, Mark and I interviewed Mrs. Westerman.

We interviewed all the children. They didn't call it a spaceship or aliens. And they just said these tall men, you know, this funny shape thing. We even interviewed one of the children's friends. He hadn't seen anything. But he'd gone home for lunch. And when he came back, you know, everything was over with and he was a bit upset because he missed it all.

You know, he missed the excitement. Right. And she was mystified. I mean, she was perplexed by what she saw in the first place. But she was even more perplexed by the fact that no one else seemed to have seen anything. And she couldn't get that out of her head. Like I said, she lived in a mining town, kind of people I grew up with all my life. we couldn't find any logical explanation for this,

this sighting, and we did try, so she was either lying or telling the truth, and I could find no reason why she would be lying. She didn't want any publicity, wouldn't allow a photograph to be taken. We wrote this item up in our own publication that we made at the time, but we weren't even allowed to use her name. And what's peculiarly, at a couple of years back,

I did a podcast for someone and I told this story but I just forgot to use the lady's name. It's Mrs. Westerman. I thought, I just forgot. And I got an email from a lady in New Zealand. And she said,

Philip, you know, I used to live in Normanton. I've now immigrated to New Zealand. What was the lady's name? And I said, it was Mrs. Westerman.

She says, my best friend was called Westerman. and she still lives there, but she's changed her name because she's got married. So she emailed her friend, and her friend was one of those children we interviewed all them years ago. Oh, wow. And I got in touch with her, and she confirmed, you know, what she remembered. And, but still, you know, it seems almost, Ryan, that you had to be in that place at that time to have experienced this. Oh, you know, I'm just saying that.

It's just an opinion of mine. But even all these years later, we were, you know, the children now grown up and had her own family, of course, confirmed that it did happen. You didn't say, oh, I'm sorry, Philip, we're pulling your leg, you know. And what it did for me, Ryan, I don't know if I really needed it, but it cemented my belief in the UFO phenomenon. And I thought, I'm not wasting. my time here. There is something worthy of further research and investigation. It's my time to

waste anyway, but, you know, it wasn't a waste of time. There was something to it after all, especially the people that reported this. They were the kind of people I'd grown up with all my life, you know, I knew them. My father was a coal mine. I had friends worked down the mines. I had other family members did. So I know that's not scientific or anything like that, but it's the kind of community I grew up in. And, you know, so landing cases, as a result of Mrs. Westerman's account on my doorstep, you know, a couple of miles up the road, just always were there in the back of my mind, irrespective of what else I was dealing with or whatever else would come my way,

that was already in the file. And it continued to grow as the decades went, went back. but that's what it's, that's, that's the one that started it all, really. Wow. And make it be what you will. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful sunny day.

Everybody out and about. A huge motorway going past nobody, nobody. I mean, we've run this feature in the local newspaper here a couple of times, hoping that somebody else might step forward, but, but no one, no one. So as far as we're aware, you know, the Westerman family were the only ones to see it. Wow. There you go. Yeah.

I love that. I love hearing that. And you're right. You know, there's a gut feeling in a lot of UFO investigations. You know, there's many ways to look at a case scientifically, spiritually, even, psychologically. And then you also have, you know, this just idea of I trust this person. There's no reason for them to have made this up. Like you said, these were the types of people you grew.

up with. These are modest, humble people. They have nothing to gain by telling a story like this. So then you're left wondering, this probably happened, but what was it? And we may never know. And that's frustrating in some ways and exciting in others, because then, like you said, it leads you to that curiosity of these UFO landings. And then boom, an entire new door is opened for you. And hundreds of cases start to spill in. And the, That's what I liked about the book is you kind of, you compartmentalize these into decades, which I really liked, you know, 40s, 50, 60s. And a lot of us here in the United States, when we think of the modern UFO era,

it always begins with Kenneth Arnold, the flying saucer story, the classic story. But in your book, you actually start with a lot of cases pre-Kenneth Arnold that I was not aware of it. I'm sure a lot of our listeners are aware of it. I mean, you know, we always use Kenneth Arnold as the yardstick, but that's when flying sources became, you know, into popular culture. So there's nothing wrong with that. But I remember, again, I moved a few miles away. And again, I did a some years later, I did another local newspaper piece.

And a gentleman in mind the name of John Warren contacted me. It was an oldish boy. he retired, but he lived nearby. So I went to speak to Mr. Warren because it was literally, you know, a mile or so from where I lived. And he recounted an event back in 1942 before Kenneth Arnold. Obviously, it was during wartime, the Second World War. Mr. Warren was in the Royal Air Force and stationed at a place called Ari F. Ludham. in Norfolk in the UK.

And it was, he couldn't remember the exact date, but he thinks it was May. And he'd been out to a local dance. And it was some 12 miles from the air base. And he was a bit late and he missed the last train back. So there was no other option in 1942, but to walk.

And not only that, he was going to get in trouble for being late, you know, not absent without leave, but he was going to be in for it if they found out. So he sets off to walk back. He's nearing the town of Ludham and the air base when he encounters up ahead of him, a peculiar-looking humanoid, just stood at the side of the road. and it had a box on its chest, and it was shining green light out of the top of this box. I don't know if you ever did it when you were a youngster yourself around. I mean, you got to, you call it a flashlight, we call it a torch, and put it under your chin, and the light all shoots up. It makes your face look funny, you know?

Yeah. It was the early days of apps that you have now on the phone to make your face look funny. Or you just get old and gray like me, and it ends up looking funny. anyway, you know. But this light was shining up in its face, and he said he had a peculiar grin on its face. But behind it, there was also a dome-shaped object that was illuminated as well.

And it scared the living daylights out of him. Remember, this is 1942. You know, it's, you know, the middle of the war. And although I didn't put it in the book, because he asked me not to write this, but he said, had he been armed at the time, had he had his side arm with him, he would have shot it.

Because this was wartime, and he knew it wasn't anything to do with the RAF or the army. So, he must be the enemy. And he said, he would have shot it. But it didn't do anything. He scarpered pretty quickly. And luckily for him, he managed to get back into the barracks through a window.

His friend let him in through a window. and he says, you know, I told my friend, and he was, you know, startled by it. So in the mid-1960s, I think it was Mr. Warren had also reported the sighting to the British UFO Research Association. So I managed to access their file and find his letter. But it was nice to be able to speak to him in person about something that happened pre-aunal. And it obviously still bothered him because, He contacted me when he saw me in the local newspaper. He still wanted to talk about it all those years later.

And it's just another fascinating little landing case that nobody's ever heard of. It's been languishing in somebody's files. But the good thing was I got to speak to him in person. So you're not just reading bits of paper. You could feel the fascination that this old boy had. and of course the era that we're talking about, it was, you know, the wartime. And I can honestly believe him if he would have shot it.

You know, I can honestly believe that. You know, we'll laugh about it. It sounds the obvious thing to do to me. This is not us, therefore it must be the enemy. I'm going to shoot the damn thing. And it's right outside the RAF base, where he was stationed. So, you know, make of it what you will.

I mean, it just gives you. you want to example that if you dig, these are the type of things that come to the surface. Wow. Yeah, that is a fascinating case. And, you know, this idea of, yeah, it's a potential threat, especially around a military base, which there were several of those in the book that you spoke of. And that lends a lot of credibility for a lot of people who don't, you know, research UFOs like you and I do on a daily basis. when they hear that military people are witnessing these pilots, people on the ground, radar operators, that seems to be what really catches people's attention. Mr. Warren was responsible for arming two squadrons of fighter aircraft at RAF Ludham.

So he wasn't just a T-boy. You know, he wasn't a colonel either, but, you know, he wasn't. And like I said, he had no option but to walk home that night. that once you missed the last train, that was it. It was not, so it was 12 miles. And he said, I hadn't been on the drink. We said, because there wasn't a lot of it anyway, and we didn't have a lot of money either, you know.

I think it'd been, in all honesty, he'd been chasing the ladies at the dance, but that's another story, you know. But, you know, fascinating. And it makes you wonder, Ryan, when you come across cases like this, you make you think, well, what others are there out there, we are totally unaware of.

And I'll give you an example. It's not in the book. As you mentioned in the introduction, I was involved in the alien autopsy film research. And I made your little four-part TV series, TV documentary series about it. And it was broadcast last year. And a local gentleman contacted me on email.

I said, I've got something I'd like to show you, Philip. And so when the lockdown, the COVID lockdown had finished, he paid me a visit. And this was the memoirs of his wife's grandfather. Like I said, this area used to be a big coal mining area. He was actually a mining engineer. So not a digger of coal, but he used to design the lift shafts and the loading gear and all this kind of thing. and before he died, he typed up his memoirs. They weren't extensive, you know, and as a young boy,

he used to live near Manchester, which is about, you know, 40 miles from here, not that far. And these memoirs were in two parts. One was about his life, where he grew up, his family. The second part was about his life as a mining engineer. And this chap said the second half is treacherily boring. Unless you're heavily into mine and engineering, this is done. But in the other part, when he was nine years old, I believe, 8 or 9,

there is a chapter and it just says the encounter. And it's the largest chapter in the whole memoirs. He printed these things out himself and just gave him to family members. They were only about 10 coppers he ever made. So he talks about an encounter in, 1911 and him and his friend were on the way to a local park they had to walk to it you know children didn't get run around in cars in those days and he said we came to this clearing and there's this this thing's on the ground you know like a cigar-shaped thing on the ground and the you know

they went up to it it opened up and there were beings humanoid beings looked at what we probably describe as Asian, wearing coloured clothing and even a headgear that looked something like a turban. And they communicated with them and conversed with them, and then off they went. And he reported it to his parents when he got home and they didn't do anything about it. But this was the largest chapter in this gentleman's memory. was. Wow.

And it's, but nobody knew anything about it. I mean, I put this gentleman's name in on Google. I think I found one mention of him. You know, and that was it. Nothing to do with UFOs,

and I managed to get an old photograph of him, but nothing. Not a whisper. And this was 1911, you know, the early part of the 20th century, before the First World War. Right.

And it had just been sat, gathering dust. You know, I was only disappointed that I didn't get to meet the old boy and speak to him, you know, in person. And this gentleman let me take a, you know, a copy of this file. And I have it, but it's not in the book. But I thought I'd mention that because it's an example who just said, you know, what else is lying around out there that we're not aware of?

And here was one. Again, it came about because I appeared on T-Earming. TV and he must have Google me and he thought, hey, and he lives up there, I'm easy enough to find. You know, I'm not, I'm not living in some Hobbit land in a little round house, you know, and I was

forever thankful. And I published the story in a couple of magazines, and I sent this gentleman copies of it, and it was, you know, to share with the family. But very bizarre, very strange, but it shows you what else may be lying around that we're unaware of,

of these strange accounts, you know, and make of it what you will. You know, there's a lot more to the story than that, but, you know, A,

I can't remember it all offhand. B, we're limited for time anyway. But it's an example. That is something that's only in 10 copies of an old boy's memoirs. And it's, you will not find it anywhere else.

Very interesting. Again, I like the way you, you think about these things, Philip, of, you know, how many lost chapters are there to memoirs out there or, you know, reports that never made it to an organization or to the FAA or to the local law enforcement, you know, that old saying of like, you know, 95% of people have probably seen something unexplained in the sky, but 2% maybe report it somewhere.

So we can only imagine the untold stories that are out there. So that's really fascinating. People say to me, how do you find out these things, Philip? Well, I always say my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, best of soul. She always used to say to me, you'll never get lost so long as you have a tongue in your head. In other words, ask. And when you ask the simplest of questions, right, it's amazing, of what the answers are that

come back, especially when you're dealing with these things and what things you find. I know, I know I've given you the examples here where I've been in the, local media and somebody's contacted me. But a lot of the times we were just doing the asking, you know, and putting ourselves out there and saying, have you seen anything? If you have, come and tell us. Come and tell us.

And I mean, again, hundreds of landings have occurred. Are there any more, Philip, that you find extra notable that you'd like to share with us here throughout the decades? Well, you know, one of the busiest times for UFO's full stop was just before I got involved in the UK I'm talking about and it's the sort of late 1970s and I think you I think you mentioned it anyway there's an incident that took place in what's called deckmont woods in Livingston in Scotland and it was the late 1970s I think it was 1979 and it involved a local gentleman by the name of Robert Taylor Mr.

Taylor was a forestry worker, hence it happening in Deckmont Woods. He set off to go to work from Livingston, and the woods were up on a hill, you know, beyond where he lived, in his truck with his dog. And it was a very down-to-earth gentleman, was Mr. Taylor. And he's walking down through these woods. And there's a small clearing. And as he comes to this clearing, there is this thing there. sat on the ground.

It is dome-shaped. He has what he described as a flange going around the bottom of it. And on this flange, with little pointers sticking up with like a helicopter blade on them. And either from the back of this thing or from underneath it rolled these two large balls, black balls with spikes on. He said they remind him of the old world. World War II mines

that used out at sea and they literally plopped across the you could in them plopping across the ground because it was muddy as they came towards him he felt a tug on either side of his

trousers in the middle of his thighs thighs by outside there was a high pitch whistling sound a smell of sulphur and he was out cold I mean literally out cold

when he came around you know, his dog is doing somersaults and this thing has gone. I mean, literally. So he staggered to his truck, tried to drive it and managed to just get it into a ditch. So it wasn't far to where he lives.

So he staggered down home, knocked on the door and his wife's staying. She says, what's the matter? What's the matter? What's happening? You know, he's looking a bit dishevelled and a bit dirty. And he says, I've been attacked. So she phones the police. you know, and the police come and he tells them.

And when the police go to the location, it's exactly where he told them to go. There are these strange marks in the ground. There's two that look like caterpillar marks and some other indentations around them. Fortunately for the police and UFO investigators, it was cold that night. I believe he might have had a bit of snow.

So it froze the muddy ground. So these imprints were frozen, place. And photographs were taken. The police even drew a sketch of these marks. And because Mr. Taylor was such an upstanding member of the community, the police actually carried out a forensic investigation. And it's the only official forensic police investigation of a UFO sighting anywhere in

the UK. Oh, wow. And, you know, they confirmed that Mr. Taylor's trousers were torn. where he felt these things pulling on him, went right through, and these were heavy, you know, duty work trousers.

They confirmed that they were consistent with a upward pulling motion. And they, you know, they conducted a full report. And I have, you know, I have a copy of that police report. Again, there was a, there's a motorway runs nearby from,

from Edinburgh to Glasgow. Livingston's kind of in the middle of those, you know, if you sign a picture it on a map, it's not an out-of-the-way place in middle of nowhere, you know. And I was fortunate. My colleague Malcolm Robinson from Scotland was on site within no time at all. And Malcolm has written the definitive book on this.

I mean, it is a fantastic book. So just look out for that if you're interested. But I went with Malcolm many years later to interview Mr. Taylor. And this is an interesting little story. he told us the account just as he'd done with everybody else and we thanked him for the time and Malcolm and I set off up to deck montwoods and you know the trees had grown somewhat in the years

had passed but we found the location and we're taking some photographs but it wasn't if you didn't know where you were going Ryan he wouldn't have known anything about it's just just trees so I said to Malcolm they now put a picnic bench there the local council put a picnic bench.

So when do you get a brass plaque made? I just screw it onto the side of the picnic bench, you know. So Malcolm went to the local council with this idea. And instead of that, they put a huge, great rock there with a big plaque on it, you know, commemorating the event.

And I think just the other year, they've gone a stage further now and put sign posters and things explaining it, you know, and not that they're going to get thousands of tourists like they do in Roswell, but there are maps there and it will take you to the location. And that just came as an off-the-cuff remark

between Malcolm and I, and fair play to him. Malcolm took the idea up and ran with it, and he's done a great job. But again, fascinating case was, you know, forensically, I have to emphasize that word, forensically investigated by the police. And they could find no explanation for it.

You know, again, he wasn't lying. You know, he'd no idea. One of the curious things about this, and it's, you know, I forgot to mention it myself, is that when Mr. Taylor is looking at this object on the ground, the dome, if you like, is part of it was transparent. But that transparency moved, didn't stay all in one place. We're not looking at a transparent dome.

Without transparency moved around the top of this dome. And it's, I don't, you know, I can't figure that out at all. It's very puzzling indeed. And, but there is a lot more involved in the case than I've highlighted. But just look, you know, look for Malcolm's book, Malcolm Robinson. You'll not be disappointed, I can assure you. But it's another fascinating case. This one has appeared in the newspaper.

papers. It has appeared on television, but it's not widely well known like Rendlesham or you won't find any mention of Rendlesham Forest in my new book at all because, you know, there are countless books about it, so I didn't need to write about that. I couldn't have done it justice in just one chapter. But the Decombeant-Witch case, or Livingston or Robert Taylor, you know, is fascinating. And again, I was glad to meet the man. Manning himself. I was actually researching my first book when I spoke to Mr. Taylor. Way back in 1994, I co-authored a book called Without Consent,

which dealt with abductions and missing time cases, again, only here in the UK, nowhere else. And there was a period of missing time that Mr. Taylor couldn't account for. So that's why I went to interview him. But he never explored it any further. that it was just, I don't know, you know, I was out cold, I don't know what happened, you know,

and I tried to drive my truck and that ended up in a ditch, you know, so, but I was glad, I was glad I got to speak to him. I really am, and he was, again, Ryan, I know it doesn't mean a lot to a lot of people, but he was such a down-to-earth gentleman, you know, it really was.

He had his job, his wife, his family, and his dog, and that's all he was really interested in, you know. And he was bewildered by the whole event. Even right up to the day he died, I believe he was still, you know, had no idea what happened to him that day. Wow. Again, you know, posing that question, why? Why would someone make something like this up?

There's absolutely nothing to gain. He didn't want notoriety. He reported it to the only people he thought he could, and that's the police. His wife did, and that makes sense. Yeah, that is a great case. I've been attacked. So if you've been attacked, what do you do?

Just the logical thing, call the police. You're right. Yeah. I love it. Well, and I do want to talk about there is this subset in the UFO field when it comes to landings or close encounters where school children are involved. And that seems to be a really big thing. more cases than I ever thought actually existed. And we will get there.

But before we get to that pinnacle case in Broadhaven, Philip, are there any other cases in the book that you really want to share with us now? You have a chapter called The X-Files, which of course is near to my heart. I'll go back in time to the 70s again, if I may. Yeah, please. Because one of the things I talk about in the book is the term that the last, Alan Hynek came up with, and that's high strangeness. And as far as he was concerned, you know,

the strange of these cases were, the closer you got to the objects, then the less likely is that it's a misidentification. You know, we all know, Ryan, that most UFO sightings at the end of the day have a conventional explanation. But when you're up close and personal to these things, it's very difficult to say it was an airplane,

or it was a star, planet or whatever other excuse. Even Hynek fell foul of that, didn't it, with the swamp gas. You know, and he admitted he got that wrong many years later. But there's a place, and I can't pronounce it correctly. So it's in Wales. Now, the Welsh language is, you know, one of a kind really. It's a place called McAlenh in Wales.

And it involved a young boy called Trevor. You know, we've never released his surname. It happened on July the 22nd, 1975. And he was with his father. And they were heading for the coast. And the beach, behind the beach was this large hill. And, you know, Trevor being an adventurous young man, I'm up here.

So he, you know, it wasn't anything dangerous. He scrambled up the rocks. And when he got to the top, it was amazed. that there was this dome-shaped object with lights all around it actually there amongst the rocks

and it was dome-shaped and this dome was transparent and what makes it even more high straitens is the creatures that he saw in it. There were two creatures that he called jellymen they were seen as if they were

I know bubbling away inside them all moving, this mass moving inside of them. And it frightened the hell out of him. He ran down the rocks, yelled to his father, and then turned around and ran back up. And his father thought he'd play in some kind of game. But when his father looked up, he could see Trevor hiding behind a rock.

So he's climbed these rocks and he's hiding behind it and bobbing up to look at these. things. So he hid behind the rock again and when he got, this thing has, has gone, you know? And it is totally bizarre what

Trevor described. I can't find anything in, in the UFO Richardson that matches what we call jellymen. And, and I had to use it. It's a case that some of us older researchers here in the UK are aware of,

but by no means everybody. And it shows you how really strange some of these incidents are. You know, this is 1975. So, you know, there are science fiction movies that have been out there, you know. But he hasn't got this from any science fiction story that I'm aware of that made the headlines in Wales, you know, as a young lad. And it is extremely peculiar. It really is. and, you know, like anything else,

I don't try and indoctrinate with anything that I do, Ryan. I just say, here it is. You can decide for yourself. You've got a brain in your head. You don't need me to tell you what to do or what to think. Make if it what you will. But it shows, again, the bizarre nature of some of these encounters. Because if we believe the tabloid press,

that it's all the same no matter where you go, things that are reported are the little great guys, and the only people report them, you know, Hicks out in the middle of the New Mexico desert, you know, but no, they're not. This was on a beach in Wales, you know, and some rocks behind the beach. So, you know, yeah, yeah, RDAF base in 1942,

right outside the RIF base, you know. I mean, it's just, it makes me scratch my head, you know, it's some of these cases when you look into them, You think, well, I can't deny it, but it's so bizarre. And that's one example of it. When we talk about high strangeness, his father didn't see the thing, but his father saw him hiding behind the rock. See, he hid behind this rock, and he kept popping up.

Because at one point, this dome started to open, and that's when he ran. So he thought, these things are coming out. I don't know. I know. But there you go. But again, people have said, well, why? why were things so active in the late 1970s in the UK? My answer is I don't know.

I just do not know. But if you've gone through archives and files like I have, not only was it very active in the late 1970s, these high strangeness cases were very active in the late 1970s. Some people, obviously, skeptical, say it's because Star Wars, you know, close encounters. But, you know, for me, that doesn't explain it all. You know, it can't explain it.

You know, it's a nice try, but no cigar, you know. But there you go. So that case is in the book. And you can read for it. There's a picture of what was drawn, an artist's impression, you know, make of it what you will. Yeah. Well, yeah, we should mention, too.

In the book, you have many. detailed witness sketches and of craft of humanoids. And that alone was very interesting to just skim through the book and look at the, like you mentioned, the bizarre nature of some of these beings, a jelly being. And, you know, these beings with boxes. Like, the way they're described, it truly makes you wonder, A, how many different intelligences are we dealing with? how many different phenomena, how high strangeness do these actually get?

And what can we say about the witnesses and their perception of these things as well? It's interesting. I mean, that's where the answers lie in those questions you've just posed. I have another kind of a favorite case, but in the late 1970s, early 1980s, we had a well-known pop group in the UK called hot chocolate. Love it. It was led by a black guy called Arrow Brown, who was a beautiful voice, great singer, well known. In 1980, they released a song called No Doubt About It. Chips I've Never seen.

Crispy Chicken Sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold, I'm juicy. throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me

and baby I'm a whole meal and with seven rewards I'm just $4. Quiet, no. Krispy, saucy and $4? Very only at 7-11. Valley through 62326 participating stores only well supplies Lassie app for full terms.

And when you listen to the song, it's on YouTube, you'll find it, hot chocolate, no doubt about it, they're singing about a flying saucer landing and the video they made to go with it, you know, is all spacey and what have you. And I just thought it was just a pop song that somebody had written and made up.

But I found out that it's actually based on a real event. Now, none of the members of the pop group Hot Chocolate saw anything, but the two people that wrote the song actually did. And one of them is called Steve Glenn. And I managed to get older Steve when I was researching the book and speak to him. He's still active in the music business. He was a singer himself. I think he even went to number one.

one in Japan at one point with one of his songs, but he was more of a songwriter, and he wrote a lot of songs for a lot of the well-known pop stars in the UK in that era. And they were in the south of England, and they were heading for the recording studio one night, him and his friend in the car, and they had another pop group following along behind them in a van. When they saw this peculiar thing,

it's a huge great thing, so he pulled over at the side of the road and they ducked down behind some bushes because this thing came to ground and he said he shot out these little spheres almost as if they were like attacking them so you know they even phoned the police when this and the police came out and spoke to them

it was too late this thing had gone by then so Steve told me he said we went home that night and we sat down him and his partner. And they wrote the song, no doubt about it, in about 10 minutes. And it was, I think it was Hot Chocolate's best-selling single.

It sold zillions of them all over the world. Obviously not in the, you know. So that is in the book. You know, that is in the book. There's a pop song inspired by a real event. And in fact, I spoke to Steve Glenn just the other day, telling him the books out. And, you know, I needed his.

address to send him a copy because I always said I would and he gave me his address and and he's now got it so there you come. It's amazing. Yeah. You know, we even have a pop song inspired by a real event. I just thought I would have made up song, you know, like that they do, Ryan. Yeah. No, it's based on a UFO landing case here in the UK.

Right. And you know, like you said, written in 10 minutes, all you need for your lyrics is your witness testimony of what happened and throw some rhythm behind it and you've got a pop song. Well, let's, I guess, kind of bookend this with probably one of the most well-known UFO landings in the UK. And this was in Wales. This was part of a, what many consider, a UFO flap. A lot of things were happening in Wales at the time. But this is probably one of the most prominent that I know of here in the States. And that is the Broadhaven incident. Like I mentioned, earlier school children involved.

A lot of people know the Ruiz Zimbabwe case in the 90s, but this case actually is a little lesser known here. So if you don't mind, could you tell us a little about this case? Yeah, well, Broadhaven. I mean, Wales itself is a country. You know, there's only a small place. It's the Western bit that sticks out from the UK.

And Broadhead, this happened on February the 4th, 1977. And as we were saying earlier, a lot of things seemed to be happening in the, in the 1970s here in the UK. And it involved 14 children, 14 at school, at the local school in Broadhaven. We used to call it playtime, but, you know, it was a break at school. And they saw this silver metallic object, you know, land outside. And it had some kind of thing on the top. And I believe there were, I think, six of the children actually reported seeing humanoid figures. And they were silver-suited.

And the only sort of facial description that the children were described, they said that these creatures had big ears, you know. And fortunately, they were all sat down. and drew pictures of these things. And we have some of the original drawings reproduced in my book. It was also reported to the Ministry of Defence here in the UK, who did indeed look into it, not extensively, but they did look into it.

The local police were involved. But other things were happening in and around Wales at the time. Lots of sightings. to such an extent that this area got nicknamed the Broadhaven Triangle. So within this specific geographical area, there was a lot of sightings. But as I mentioned, throughout the UK in the late 1970s, there were a lot of weird and wonderful things. And I don't know about you, Ryan, but, you know, I've lectured at schools. And I find the youngsters, I probably ask the better questions than the grownups.

And of course, most of them don't have the vices that we adults accumulate down the years. And they can be very honest. I mean, you know, I've got two daughters. And I take my youngest daughter when she was little. She would be so honest. She was blunt, you know, because she said, well, you always told me to tell the truth, Dad. And I said, yeah, I know sometimes, but if somebody's ugly, you don't have to tell them, you know. So, you know, so I think sometimes the children are the best witnesses because they just say it as they see it.

You know, they haven't got the vices that we have. And that is a prime example here with Broadhaven. And it's sad really that it's kind of disappeared from the public domain. It would be, I haven't been able to do it, but I haven't tried, I'm going to be honest. to speak to speak to some of these children now that they've grown up, I'm sure, you know, there were only youngsters in 1977, so hopefully some of them would still be around, but it would be fascinating to speak to them now.

Like I did with the children in Normanton, we found one of them was introduced to me, you know, just a couple of years back, and she still reported the same thing, Ryan. And I believe, like you mentioned, the aerial school sighting in the 90s in Zimbabwe. they're all grown up on adults now and some of those have been interviewed.

Westall in Australia in 1966, Shane Ryan's done a great job with that. And, you know, he's spoken to a lot of the children now that are adults and even I think one of the teachers was also involved at that time.

So school yard sightings if you like are a bit more common than perhaps we would imagine. And and that's just one example is the Broadhaven sightings. And there's lots of drawings that went with it. I couldn't really have room to reproduce them all,

but I've put a good example of them in the book. And I think observations by children, per se, are fascinating. But when it comes to things like this, you know, people who always say, oh, the kids are making it up, you know, what for? You know, it's usually one child.

or one child and his mate will come up with a crazy idea and that's how it used to work when I was. Me and my best friend got up to some mischief, but it was never the whole school. You know? So, but yeah, I mean, you're right, you're right to flag it up, Ryan,

because it is a fascinating story, as are the other, what we call school yard sightings as well. And it'd be interesting to see if in the coming years, there aren't a few more that come out of the woodwork. Are the contemporary ones that happens now or things that are, you know, suck in somebody's filing cabinet and forgotten about? We shall see. We shall see. Yeah.

Let's hope, hope for the best. Well, I want to ask you this, Philip, with a lot of these cases, you mentioned the high strangeness aspect, what these humanoids look like, you know, the craft landing and then taking off. But my big question, when it comes to any of these landings, there seems the beings come out, maybe they hang around for a couple minutes and then leave. What do you think, if you had to guess, what is the purpose of these landings? Are they surveying the earth? Are they here to invade? What do you think the purpose is?

Well, if we come to a conclusion that way, we have to agree that these are beings from another world. And I would say we don't know as yet what these things are. Now, some people will know that I'm a publisher. I run a small outfit called Flying Dispress. And the second book I ever published was by a Romanian scientist called Dr. Dan Farkas. It's simply called UFOs over Romania. Dan's second book was his hypotheses of what UFOs are.

And he calls it hyper-civilizations. because it's the very question, the very thing you just pointed out there that puzzle Dan more than anything is that he calls them the euphanauts do stupid things. You know, they come, they fiddle around and they're gone.

You know, leaving the poor bemews witnesses behind scratching their heads. And what he, his, I'm not saying he's right or wrong, I'm not saying I agree with him, but it made me think. He said, he honestly believes we are being visited by an intelligence not of this earth. Where it comes from, how it gets here, no idea. But on the evolutionary scale, he estimates that it's not a few thousand years in advance of us.

It's actually millions of years in advance. And no matter how hard, you know, we humans try, we're simply not able to understand it. We're not high enough up the evolutionally ladder yet to figure it out. And it gives an idea, it says, you know, you take a flat screen television and stick it in an ants nest. Now the ants will know it's there. They'll crawl all over it.

Maybe some of the soldier ants might even attack it. But never in a million years will they be able to figure out what the hell it is, what it's made of, and what its purposes. So maybe on that scale, we are the evolutionary ants, you know, that is the difference between us. And of course, that's one of the parameters in the Drake equation. You know, the astronomer Drake and about the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe. And one of them is the age of civilizations.

That's one of the things that make up the Drake equation. Now, we as a species, never mind as civilization, we have us as a species. I've only been around for, you know, in the blink of an eye, the dinosaurs ruled the earth for millions of years before they were wiped out. You know, mankind is, you know, we haven't been here for two minutes, really. So you will imagine, let's assume that we don't wipe ourselves out one way or another, that mankind survives for the next billion years. What will we look like?

What will our technology be? I mean, forget Star Trek will beyond all that. You look what we've done since the Wright brothers first flew at Kitty Hawk. You know, within a generation, we went from flying at Kitty Hawk to landing on the moon. So, you know, you've sick a billion years on the top of that. I just think what will be like technology. And it says there may be a civilization or civilizations out there already at that point, that they evolved or were created whichever way.

you want to believe, you know, a billion years ago, and they've stumbled across us, you know, swarming about on this little planet, you know, and it's shown an interest, but we're too dumb to figure out what it is. And it makes you wonderful, for example, you look, you could also look at the next most intelligent creature on Earth is the dolphin. And scientists believe that the dolphins have a rudimentary rudimentary, rudimentary, language. But yeah, we can't say hello, Flipper.

How are you doing? What do you feel today? We can't teach you to jump up and catch a fish. You know, we can't converse with them. You know, and what do they, so we don't know, when they look up out of the water and they see us, what do they think? I mean, they're self-aware, you know, I think, therefore I am. The dolphins are self-aware.

What do they think about us when they're looking up out of the water? you know, imagine that in a expand that between us and another civilization elsewhere. So I don't know, but it just made me think. It really did make me think. And because if you think about it, if you and I were astronauts and we landed on a planet and we found another civilization, another life form, we wouldn't just piddle around and then leave it, you know. I'm out of there.

You know? Good point. Yeah. But it's a good analogy, yeah. Yeah, it's just, it's just food for thought. And all I would say is to anyone, you know, the information is out there. Just pick it up, have a look at it and draw your own conclusions, you know. And I think, you know, people like me and my colleagues, one of the things, our purpose is to record this information, though, that hopefully somebody somewhere will be able to

make sense of it all. It's a bit like the early astronomers. You know, they were recording things and people saying, I don't know what this is. You know, for example, you know, I think it was 150 years ago, stones couldn't fall from the skies. You look up into the sky, Ryan,

there's no stones there, is there? It's clouds and rainbows. But I think there was an event in the early part of the 19th century in France when a lot of stones did fall from the sky. And it forced the astronomers to admit, yes, we do know they fall from the sky, but we just don't know what the hell they are anyway. So maybe in euphological terms, we're at that point now. We know that UFOs exist. We know there is a UFO phenomenon.

But, you know, we've got one of those rocks that's fallen from the sky. We finally admitted it, but we don't know what they're ever come from, what it is, what it's made of, what its purposes, etc., etc., etc. etc. I may be totally wrong as well, of course, but it's just, it's just an idea. No, I love that. You're building off of what we can now accept and hopefully, globally, begin to understand that, yes, there is a phenomena, you know, here in the United States, our government has said, yes, UFOs exist. Now it's a million questions that come after that, like you said. But it's a bit, yeah, here in the, our own ministry defense of all, always admitted. Always. You go back through the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

Files have always admitted there are things in the skies that they can't explain. But then they put a caveat on that. We didn't find, you know, there's no threat to the air defense of the UK, is therefore we're not interested. And, you know, but they've always admitted those things in the sky they can't explain. It's nothing new. Yeah, very good point. Well, um, speaking of new, Philip, what can new people who, who, you know, might have one of these close encounters or see a craft landing. What advice would you give to people like this if this does happen to them, if these things are truly happening? Yeah, well, I would say, you know, by all means report it. You know, there's a lot of different

channels now where you can report things, in confidence if required. A lot of the local UFO groups that they used to be here in the UK have disappeared, but they're being replaced by other online assets where you can report things. Again, in confidence, it is vital that, you know, we should, we add the information to the pool of knowledge that we already have. But think about it carefully.

You know, speak to family members first. You know, if it's something so bizarre, so frightening, you may wish to report it to the local authorities. Even the police here are, duty-bound to investigate. And I mentioned there has been one full forensic investigation because of the gentleman in question. It was a well-known member of the local community,

and that was, you know, in Livingston in Scotland. And we know there are lots of independent UFO researchers as well. So you're able to do your homework like you couldn't do when I first started. You can Google somebody's name, you can have a look, You can see what they've worked on. You're thinking that might be the right person for me, or not that is still UFO organizations like Moufan and others in other different countries, of course.

And I would say, you know, step forward. You don't have to go public, but by all means, share what information you have with UFO research. It could be another piece of the jigsaw puzzle that you're adding. You never know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, I think you're right. The more people who come forward, the more we normalize this and the more data we can add to this growing mystery and maybe find some answers to some of it, maybe not all of it. But hey, like you said, I'd rather have half the puzzle than no puzzle at all, at least in my lifetime. Yeah. Yeah. Well, to kind of wrap things up here, Philip, you know, landings.

is one thing. Abductions is entirely different story. It's just elevated to the umpteenth level. And I know you have done a lot of research into a case here in the United States, and that is the Pascagoula. Several books that you've published on that. And it's a developing story. I know you had a breaking story recently of another witness who came forward

and whatnot. But yeah, would you mind teasing us a little of what we can expect in the future when you're investigation. I mean, I got involved in the Pasco Gula case. It involved Charles Hickson who was 42 and Calvin Parker who was almost 19. And it was October the 11th, 1973. Calvin had moved out

to work with Charlie in the shipyard. He just got engaged, wanted a regular job. And even though there was an age difference, the one thing these two guys shared was they'll love of fishing. So literally Calvin's first day at work they're coming home he's driving charlie says you want to go fishing tonight yeah so they've got the gear

stopped off bought some bait and they drove to the pascagoula river in mississippi as they're driving into it this place is not out of the way so it's not in the middle of nowhere it's like some swamp land you can drive up to it Calvin passes a no entry sign and he says to charlie you know i don't what about that it's a techno notice so they parked the car up they drive past the another car that's parked up. They try one spot. It's got loads of flies biting them and no fish. So they try an old abandoned pier.

There used to be a shipyard there. There's an old pier. So they're standing on there. And Calvin's got his cast his rod, his line. He's looking out. And, you know, I've often wondered what fishermen think about when they're not catching any fish. You know, Calvin was looking at this ship

that was going out wondering why how the hell is something like that you know how does it float and then behind him came these blue lights and they sparkled across the river and he thought oh no I knew we shouldn't have ignored the no entry sign it's the police we're going to spend the night in jail so he turns around and and he noticed that charlie's turning around about the same time as him of course it's not the police that is this uh what we call a rugby ball an oval shaped object descending. It's got two lights at one end and it stops about two feet off the ground.

And it's this thing that's giving off the blue light. On the right-hand side, this opening appears and the light is even more intense coming out of it. And these three strange humanoid beings, again, float out of this thing. They don't touch the ground. They're about, I know, 18 inches off the ground. Their legs are stuck together so the legs don't move.

They've got long arms. They're gray, wrinkly skin creatures with mitten or crab-like, you know, appendages on their hands. They have a protrusion sticking out of each side of the head and one out of the front. Two of them grab Charlie, one grabs Calvin, take them towards this thing. both Charlie and Calvin describe, you know, the interior of it as there's nothing really there. Calvin describes it as the light comes out of the paint. You know, there's no light fittings, no bulbs, no tubes.

It's just the walls illuminate this dazzling blue light. They're both placed in different parts of this thing, so they lose contact with each other. I'm cutting a long story short here, right? something comes down out of the ceiling and whirls around Calvin. A similar thing happened to Charlie. Calvin also sees another creature who comes up to him that looks almost human. But it's a female. But the middle fingers of this female creatures are long and she scratches Calvin

and there's a bit of an altercation. They're then placed back out on the pier and this thing is gone. they at first decide not to tell anybody because they say I think we're nuts where they get back to Calvin's car which was brand new the glass falls out of the passenger side window it won't start

text them quite a while to get it started and on route home there Charlie has a change of heart says no we better tell somebody this could be an invasion what if they come back what if it happens for somebody else so they pull

at a local store and use the pay phone, they at first phone Kiesler Air Force Base, which is nearby, and they say, we're not interested, you know, ring the authorities. So they ring the police, and the police come out,

and they escort them into the sheriff's department, where they're both interviewed, separately, by Sheriff Fred Diamond and his deputies, and then they both put in a room together, and there's a desk there. And unbeknown to Charlie and Calvin in this desk, there's a tape recorder playing.

The police think, we'll get them now. We'll leave them for five or ten minutes. And we'll, you know, so they do. A deputy comes and retrieves something out of the desk. These two guys don't know what he's doing. And it's the tape and they play it back. Calvin's going out of his mind. He's almost praying.

You know, they're talking about what had happened to them. So this became known as the secret tape, you know. And somehow the story got out the next day. The press ascended on the place. Charlie and Calvin were taken to hospital to be checked. They were then, ironically, taken to Keisler Air Force Base to be checked for radiation. And that proved zero. But they said, well, while you're here, gentlemen, why don't you tell us your story?

You know, we have the police. tape. There was no recording done at Kisler, but there was a stenographer. So we have a transcript of everything that happened at Kisler, everybody that was there. And this story made worldwide news. Charlie dealt with it pretty well. Calvin didn't want anything to do with it. He went back home. A couple of weeks later, he had a bit of a breakdown and didn't really talk much about it. I didn't want to talk about it for years. Now, in 1983, Charles Hickson, along with a chap called William Mender, published a book UFO contact of

Pastor Gula. Charlie died in 2011, so just a couple of years back I got the rights to republish Charlie's book. And I thought, I know he's

deceased, but I think Calvin's still around. Maybe I can get an interview with him. So it took me a while, but I finally found him. And he was very nice when I spoke to him on the phone. Very polite, but didn't really say enough. awful lot, you know, unbeknown to me, his wife, Calvin's wife, Wayneette, only a few weeks

beforehand, they'd been to a funeral. And Calvin had signed the book coming out, and people were pointing at it and pointing at him, you know, they knew what he was then. She said, why don't you write a damn book? So I said, well, if you want to do it, I'll help you with it. So we did. We wrote two books. Once Calvin came out of the woodwork, then so did others.

and he he did a small television piece for the local TV station they made like a you know like a mini eight minute documentary Ryan I went out

and it ended up on YouTube and one of the comments on it said my mum and dad were on the opposite side of the river that night and then two saw the UFO oh wow I thought holy

holy well words to that effect anyway. You know, so I got this lady's name. I found her on social media. I contacted her, explained who I was, and I said, could we possibly speak to your mom and dad? Please ask them first. So they did.

This turned out to be Mr. and Mrs. Blair. They were living in just down the road, but over the border in Alabama at the time. And so we spoke to them. And what they told us was, yes, indeed. They were on the opposite side of the river that night. Mr. Blair worked in the fishing industry,

and he was waiting for a boat to come in, check him out to work. And it was late. So he was not a happy man, you know. And Mrs. Blair said, we're on this little pier, an opposite, I can see this blue thing.

And it's moving around, as if it's either looking for something or it doesn't know where it's going. And then the boat comes in. So Mr. Blair saw this as well. So they're walking up the pier and she says there's this almighty splash in the river next to me. She's going to look down. She says, there's a grey man in the water. And it went under the water and never came back up. Mr. Blair said, after some reluctance, he eventually told him, he said, well, I saw the, he didn't call it a grey man. He called it

the grey humanoid. He says, I saw it come back up out of the water because he was further along the pier and it was heading back across the water. And then he'd never spoken about this ever. They told their two daughters, one of their daughters

left that message on YouTube, which led them to it. Now Mrs. Blais also said, you know, Philip, I saw Charlie and Calvin on the TV. you know, if it was the next day or the day after. And she said, I often wondered if something like that didn't happen to us. She had these vague recollections of seeing something out of her peripheral vision.

And she couldn't quite make it out. It's like you stared at your screen now, Ryan, you know, this bit is blurred out here. Anyway, about a year later, Mr Blair took ill. And he was in the hospital for an operation. And it wasn't, it was 50, 50, 50. whether it was going to make it. And God bless him, he insisted that his wife phone me on the mobile phone. And he said, we would abduct it as well, Philip.

And he told, sat to tell his wife the whole story. Thankfully, he did survive the operation. And he told his wife the whole story. She was as mad as hell with him. Because he'd never told anybody. she just had these vague memories, you know, these vague little recollections. And he told us the whole story.

Sadly, you know, a few months down the line, Mr Blair passed away. So it was almost like a deathbed confession. And we even have a little film of him filmed on his wife's mobile phone. He insisted on her doing that. And he's telling us the story. So just recently, and you're the first to know this, Mrs Blair underwent regressive hypnosis

with a professional hypnotherapist and she has recounted the whole story with a whole lot more Calvin had previously been under hypnosis Kathleen Marden in 2019 in 1993 Calvin had another missing time experience so he went under hypnosis

with none of them Bud Hopkins now Calvin also went under hypnosis again recently We just had the opportunity, so we thought, we'll do it while we can. When he's under hypnosis, he says, I'm laying on this, he calls it a bench or a bed. It's just a glass top thing. You don't know what the hell it is. These creatures are there.

And he says, they take my shoes and socks off. And he said, they're doing something with my foot. And it hurts. And he's describing, you know, and he, something dripping out of his mouth is not sure if it's blood or whatever. It's almost feels it's as if they're sticking something in his foot and it's coming out of his mouth. Not saying that did happen. It just gave him that impression.

Now, when I met Calvin for the first time and we decided to write his book, have you got any photographs, documents, anything? This is no fraud. I haven't got anything. Everything was swept away in Hurricane Katrina. Lost everything. That's why he would have.

find old photographs of Calvin when they were little. They're all gone. So one of the things I set about doing while he's writing was to pest of the living daylights out of UFO groups and researchers for any information or files they had about the case. Now, Hyeneck had been involved right from day one. He was there within two days. So was Dr. James Harder.

So it just made sense. I started at the Centre for UFO studies. And I asked them, have you got anything on the Pascagoula case? They sent me a file, PDF file. Most of it was, you know, newspaper cuttings. However, right in the middle of it, there is a typewritten one-page typewritten document. So this is done on an old typewriter.

And you can tell it as because the date's been put on it wrong and they've typed over it. So it's dated the 13th of October, 1973. So it's two days after the encounter. And it describes giving both Charlie and Calvin a physical examination. So they were looked over. And it said that there were, in inverted commas, puncture wounds in Charlie Hickson's arm, and puncture wounds in Calvin Parker's foot.

And there's photographs then closed. unfortunately there were no photographs. I haven't finished yet. We had this document. So I said to Calvin, who examined you? He said it was Dr. James Harder who came down. It wasn't a medical doctor. He just said, let's strip off and have a look.

You know, and they stripped down to their underwear. And that's mentioned in this document, you know, that their wedding tackles, we call it in England, you know, was the only thing that he didn't look at. So about a year later, the same chap at the Center for UFO Studies who sent me this file, sent me an email and he said, Philip, I've been going through some old files today. I assume you've got these, but I thought I'd send them anyway.

I wasn't looking for these, by the way. I just came across them. But I'm sure you've got them. These were the photographs to go with that document. And there's a photograph of Charlie Hickson's harm with these marks on it. And then you turn the photo over, it tells you Charles Hickson, 11th of October 1973. And there's Calvin Parker's foot with these three marks underneath his foot. And again, on the back of the photograph is his name and the date.

So here you have Calvin recounting its story. They always said right from the beginning that they had some kind, they felt like they've been injected. See, there you have, you know, Charlie Hickson's arm with these marks on it. They're fresh. You can see that.

And lo and behold, you've got Calvin saying, they've taken my shoes and socks off and they've stuck something in my foot. And it hurts. And here you have a written description of these And he puts in inverted commas, puncture wounds, and then a year later, the photographs appear as well. Wow.

So, you know, each thing separately doesn't mean a lot, but when you put it all together, you think, holy smally, you know. And we've had other witnesses come forward, Ryan. Again, just to be brief, again, another gentleman, Calvin was doing a book signing in Pasagola. And this gentleman elderly look and came up, bought a book, said, thank you very much.

By the way, I saw the UFO that night. And he walked away. Calvin didn't get his name, but fortunately, somebody was taking photographs. So we've got a photo of him buying the book. So again, I put it on social media, and a lady contacted me, she says, I know that is. I said, well, can you ask him if I can speak to him?

He comes back, said, yeah, he'll speak to you. A chap called Louis Lee, Mr. Louis Lee. And he worked in the shipyard on the other side of the river. He says, he was a crane driver. And he says, that night, Philip, I got into my cab. He says, the cab's about 10 or 12 feet off the ground. And he says, as soon as I got in the cab, I could see this thing over the river. And he said, you've never seen anything like it.

I can't do a Mississippi accent. I'm sorry, Ryan. And I'm, you know. Fair enough. He says it's the dandest thing you've ever seen. And he's watching it and watching it. And then his friend shouts him because he's got something on the end of his crane, like, you know, what are you doing?

So he turned away to see to his job. And he said, when I turned back, it was gone. And he said, I told my family about it. It's about, I've never not told anybody. Who the hell do you tell it to? and that's just one other example and others have come forward it left right and centre

in 1973 they all saw Charlie and Calvin on the TV or in the newspaper basically people poking fun at them but the media today when Calvin came out of the woodwork and wrote his two books treated him with respect

and didn't poke fun at him so I think in turn that encouraged others. Plus they're of an age now where some of them just couldn't care less what anybody thinks anyway, you know. And 1977, sorry, 1973 when this happened, he's not eons ago. You know, I left high school the year after and I'm still here.

So there's a lot of people in their 60s and 70s who were around at that time and had now told their stories. And we, you know, even just recently, we interviewed Eddie Hickson, who is Charlie Hickson's eldest son. Eddie didn't see anything at the time, but they did witness some things later. Eddie had just gone to Vietnam in the military,

10 days before this incident happened. And he said, had I not been in the military, Philip, I had to been there that night. Because he knew Calvin, they grew up together. You know, he said, I'd have been there fishing with them. And, you know, so we have a full intervie. of you with him as well and he talks about how it affected his father, scared the living daylights, how up his mum for the rest of her life. She was always looking over her shoulder

and like, what if, what if, you know. Um, so there's a lot. So Dr. Irene Scott and I have worked on this. She's in Ohio. I would be lost without her, Ryan, to be perfectly honest. And, um, we intend to publish this, all of this. And there's a lot more to it next year, because it's the 50th anniversary. So it just seems the right time to do it. And it's come, you know, the case found international recognition back in 1973, it then died again. It was gone.

People have forgotten about it. But when I looked, when I, I'll give you an example. When I first started to look for Calvin Parker, I contacted a UFO researcher in Mississippi. It seemed to be the obvious thing to do. Yeah. He'd never heard of it. I never heard of it. He just sent me some links that he'd found online.

I said, well, I can find links. I don't want links. I want his phone number. You know? And this is where modern technology comes in. It was a podcaster. You're probably knowing Martin Willis. Of course, yeah.

Martin had interviewed Calvin back in 2013. He says, I think I've got his email. I don't know if it still works. So it was Martin who introduced me and Calvin Parker. That's amazing. And I've thanked him numerous times, but I'm forever, forever thankful. Right.

Who says podcasts don't add to the research and investigation? Absolutely they do. Absolutely they do. And there's a prime example, you know. Absolutely. And, you know, Calvin and I were, in fact, we're talking this morning. We speak regularly, we've come friends, and we never know what's going to happen next. I mean, a local charity in the town, for example, raised some money and put a historical marker

at the location where this thing happened. And it was officially unveiled by the mayor. You know, and all that happened. Calvin was stood by it when they unveiled it. He was crying, you know. And it is a fascinating story. It really isn't. It's one that continues to give.

There's more things out there, and we will see where it all ends up. But it's a fascinating account. Calvin's books are available. Pasker Gula, the closest encounter. That's his first one. And Pasca Goula, the story continues is the second one. And Dr. Irina Scott got her own book called Beyond Pasca Gula, the rest of the amazing story.

because she is a bona fide scientist and lo and behold there's another aspect to the story. She was she's from Ohio in on October the 11th 173 she was away from home studying for her

I believe it was her PhD when her mother found her and she says there's been a huge sonic boom and this sonic boom went halfway across the United States and that was on the 11th of October, 1973.

And she's never been able to find a rational explanation for this sonic boom. She's looked into everything. It's recorded on, you know, seismic measurement. She claims, and I believe her, because she's the scientist, not me, it is the second loudest noise ever recorded on Earth. And it all happened at the same. Now, whether it's connected to the Pascagoula incident, I don't know.

Right. I don't know. But it was the same night. Interesting. If you hear an aircraft, you know, a jet aircraft do a sonic boom, the radius of the way you can hear it is about two miles. So it'll give you some exact. The higher the jet goes, the less distance you can hear it

because the atmosphere gets thinner so the sound waves don't travel so far. Therefore, it diminishes the higher it gets. this went halfway across the United States. Yeah, that's almost unimaginable then. Yeah, and it was that that got Irene interested. And yeah, so there you go. So that's an update on the Pasca Gula case. There's a lot more, but we could literally be here all night talking about it.

No, let's wait for the book. Oh, I'm so excited for that, for sure. Well, I mean, to wrap things up, Philip, where can we find your book, the new book, where can we find everything you're up to? And yeah, tell the folks at home how they can find you if you don't mind. Yeah, the new book is a simple title, UFO Landings, UK. You'll find it on Amazon.

There's a large format softback book. There's a hardback. There's a Kindle. And we're in the process of turning it into an audio book as well. so that'll be ready at some point. And, you know, I've written a few other books, but they're all there. You just punch my name into Amazon.

You'll find them. I have a little blog, although I don't write a lot on it. I just put bits and pieces on it. That's just flying diskpress.com. That's disc with a K. I'm on Facebook. I'm easy enough to find. You never forget this fat old boy's face

once you've seen it, will you? Oh, stop. Well, we've got your Twitter handle down there as well. If folks want to reach out to you there. Well, this has been absolutely fascinating, Phil. I'm so happy I finally got to talk to you. I know it was a long time coming, but we covered so much. And I'm being honest, I cannot wait for that new book to come out on Pascagoula to see what you guys have discovered.

Well, I literally added the Eddie Hickson interview to the manuscript this morning. unless anything else comes up, that will be the last thing. I'm going to try and speak to Eddie over the next few days just to see if he's got any old photographs of his, you know, himself and his father. Yeah. That we might be able to use.

But that's all. You know, the interview's done. It's in. And like I say, look out for it later this year, October, November time. Calvin, Mrs. Blair, deputy, Glenn Ryder,

and another witness called Judy Branning, along with Wayneette, Calvin's wife, have done a little, they're all featuring a 30-minute documentary made by Sky. Dot Sky, Fox, I beg your pardon, Fox Nation. And it's part of a series, and it goes out October, November. When I get more details, I'll let you know. So they're all featured briefly, you know, in this little 30-minute documentary, but it'll give you a little taste of what we've been what we've been talking about.

There is a lot more, but that will hopefully, I mean, other people might come forward as a result, right? You never know. But that'll be out later this year and the book next year at some point, all being well. Fantastic. Well, Philip, I have to thank you for coming on somewhere in the skies today and for all the invaluable work you do in this field. It's truly an honor to talk to you.

It's my pleasure, Ryan, I can assure you. And let's not leave it so long until next time we speak. Absolutely, absolutely. Somewhere in the Skies is produced by Third Kind Productions, in association with the Entertainment One podcast network. Just two wheels, two pedals, and you. At Bikes Online, we share your passion for everything cycling. Whatever bike you're looking for, from mountain to road,

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