Song Exploder - Carly Rae Jepsen - When I Needed You

Episode Date: May 9, 2016

Carly Rae Jepsen released her third album, Emotion, in 2015. The closing track on the record is When I Needed You. In this episode, Carly tells the story of how the song was made. You'll hear the first demo for the song, a version she co-wrote with her longtime collaborator Tavish Crowe. And you'll hear how that led to the album version. Plus, producer Ariel Rechtshaid breaks down some of the parts that he created for the recording.

You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs, and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway. Carly Ray Jepsen released her third album, Emotion, in 2015. The closing track on the record is When I Needed You. In this episode, Carly tells the story of how the song was made. You'll hear the first demo for the song, a version she co-wrote with her longtime collaborator, Tavish Crow. And you'll hear how that led to the album version.

Plus, producer Ariel Rekshide breaks down some of the parts that he created. for the recording. My interview with Carly Ray Jepson was recorded live at the Noise Pop Festival in San Francisco. I spoke to Ariel Rekshide in his studio in Los Angeles. My name is Rishi K. Sherway. You're listening to Song Exploder. My name is Carly Ray Jepson. I have found in my life I collect kind of song pieces and fragments as I go.

And then later on, even years later, I'll kind of plug them into a new idea. The real beginning of this song, as it starts with a journey that began with me in Tavish in New York City at my Soho apartment. And it was just kind of a late night, too many whiskey sort of jam session. Tavish is one of the co-writers of like, call me maybe too. We really kind of began every little idea together.

He's like my favorite writing partner in the world just because we've been through so much for so long together that any idea, no matter how stupid, I don't feel scared to share with him. And this was just one of those times where we were jamming. I had just been through a really brutal breakup and was needing to process it with a friend. The concept was just realizing that this relationship would be perfect, and the guy that I was with was really perfect.

But in order to stay in it, I would have to be quite a different person than who I naturally am and was. And that sacrifice didn't seem worth it in the end, so I had to end it. What if we could go back? I could take the words back. You could take my love back And brush my hair Behind my ear What if you could be me?

The song sounds happy now But it's a really sad demo to begin with Yeah Before I knew to New York I was in such a last place With knowing what I wanted to make That I was allowing myself To experiment in every direction

And then I kind of fell back into All the reasons of what it was That I really loved about pop music And tried to make my mission Making a pop album that adults could hopefully enjoy too and that I as an adult could enjoy. And then months later, when I was in an LA session

with Dan Nygro and Nate Campany, a new sort of track came to light. Songwriters Dan Nygro and Nate Campany brought Carly an instrumental idea, something they thought could be a good start for a song for her. They played her the demo. I collect kind of a bunch of ideas and I don't know what's going to be good until later on.

And when I show up to a session, I sort of bring the best material that I think still stands out as memorable to me. and this was a day where I showed up with Dan and Nate with a fresh session in mind and there was a happier track that was presented and I sort of sang this really sad top line on top to see if it would go. It was kind of nice to hide a very serious emotion

in something that wouldn't be so obviously all out there if that makes any sense just from a personal level because it was such a real felt thing where this spark came from. I called Tavish. Remember that song we did? And so how way back are you cool if we like revise it at Ben? He said, I have fun.

After finishing a new version of the demo with Carly's vocals, Carly, Dan, and Nate had their hearts set on getting producer Ariel Rekshide involved with the song. Ariel had previously produced for Haim, Vampire Weekend, and Charlie XX, among many, many others. Hey, my name is Ariel Rekshide. When I first got the call, and it was probably about a year before we were, actually did anything. I was intrigued. She was pretty clear about what she wanted. Well, the throwback of 80s is something that I loved, but I didn't want it to feel like a

period piece album. I wanted to have a hint of that. Also, I've always wanted to create a song that I felt like could be in like 16 candles are pretty in pink, and I feel like this is the closest I've ever gotten. So they have it. The first thing I told her, when I heard that song, what I heard was drums, bass, and a keyboard. So I wanted to fill the space with those elements. The bell sound, it was less about the sound, it was more about finding a series of notes that drone through the chord progression that made an otherwise rather sweet chord progression feel a little bit more somber. And then to add to that, I tweaked the chord progression halfway through to make the song just have a little bit more of a desperation.

So it was kind of a combination of... sweetness and desperation, which I really think does encapsulate Carly's vibe. The bass player is a guy named Ethan Farmer, who was just coming off of a Lionel Richie tour when I met him. Took an idea of like a five-string kind of funk R&B baseline that I was able to approximate and just made it legit. That drum fill is just something that I've always kind of had in my head. They were inspired by the drum fill in Jack and Diane by John Cougar Mellon Camp. So it kind of lent itself to what people would equate to like an 80s kind of snare with like a big reverb on it. An ad lib is just a vocal part that strays from the basic form of the song.

It can be anything. Oftentimes, there's a lot of other really great, more complex little spurts of vocals that would be hard to follow as the main part, but when sprinkled in, sparingly, helped the song arrive at a more climactic place and a more emotional place. She did like a hay somewhere. Hey! And I just loved it. So then I asked her to do it again. And when she did it, it's kind of looking at me and laughing. Like, is that what you mean? And I'm like, yes, that's what I mean. Yeah. I don't know. It's like a thing I found that producers really love to capture those

moments where you like say an awkward thing and just like for their own sick pleasure just keep it in there tucked and only you two will ever know that it's there it's like man yeah that that was i think i laugh i laugh a lot when i have to belt in the studio it's one thing to belt in in like a show but when there's no one there and it's like you in this little like dirty closet and you're just like scream it just feels really unnatural and i just find it kind of funny i guess so I don't expect anyone else to hear that, and it's not the point, really, but it's just those are the little moments that make it happen. This was the final, I think, processing for me of a relationship, one of those ones where you feel like it's going to be forever. This was one of those moments where I think I finally, in one last song, like, let it go.

This song was not on my, like, radar as making the album and somehow found its way there. And because it went through so many stages, I felt like it would be exciting to show that this song lived through a couple different years in so many different people's imaginations before it arrived where it did. Thank you. And now here's the final version of When I Needed You by Carly Ray Jepson in its entirety.

At songexploder.net for links to more info on Carly Ray Jepson and photos from the live event where my interview with her was recorded. Thanks to the folks at Noise Pop for their help making this episode happen. They've got their own podcast too, called The Noise Pop Podcast, which you should check out. I have a new album of my own coming out on April 24th. It's been about 15 years since I last put out a full length, and this is the first one that'll be out under my own name, Rishi Kesh Her Way. I started making Song Exploder when I was feeling lost in my own music career.

And then for over a decade, I've gotten to have these incredible conversations about the process of making music, talking to other artists, and it made me completely rethink my relationship to music. and my way of writing songs. And this album is the product of all of that. It features contributions from some of my favorite artists, including some folks that you may have heard on this podcast, like Iron and Wine, Kevin Morby,

Vagabon, Fenlily, and the producer Phil Winerobe. I'm going to be on tour playing in cities across the U.S. starting in April, and I'm trying to bring the spirit of the podcast with me. So every show that I'm playing will begin with a conversation about the album with a different amazing guest moderator in each city. Like Adam Scott, Samin Nasrat, Jason Manzukas, Josh Molina, Minjin Lee, Ken Jennings, John Roderick, Austin Cleon, and more. They're all going to be my conversation partners on stage, and then I'll play with my band.

The album is called In the Last Hour of Light, and the first couple songs are out now. You can listen to the music and get tickets for the shows on my website, rishikash.co, or just go to songexploder.net slash live. That's songexploder.com. net slash live. Thanks. Next time on Song Exploder, bus driver. Song Exploder is a proud member of the Radiotopia Network from PRX, a collection of the best creative, independent podcasts. You can find all the past and future episodes of Song Exploder

on iTunes, Stitcher, at SongExploder.net, or wherever you download podcasts. Follow the show on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Song Exploder. My name is Rishi-Kesh Hereway. Thanks for listening. Biotopia