Song Exploder - John Lennon - God

Episode Date: October 6, 2021

Earlier this year, I got an amazing email—the estate of John Lennon said that they have a treasure trove of audio material from his life, and they were wondering if I would be interested in making an episode around the song “God,” from John Lennon’s first solo album. I’ve never tried making a posthumous episode before, because hearing directly from the artist is at the heart of Song Exploder. But with all the interview archives that they have of him speaking, plus all the isolated tracks from the recordings, and the original demo, it actually seemed possible. So this is a very different and special episode of the show. In September 1969, John Lennon told the rest of the Beatles that he was leaving the group. Their breakup was announced publicly in April 1970, and that December, John Lennon released his first solo album, John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band. The Plastic Ono band was the name for a rotating group of musicians that John and his wife, the artist Yoko Ono, had put together. For the making of “God,” the band included Ringo Starr on drums, Billy Preston on piano, and Klaus Voormann on bass. I got to interview Klaus Voormann about his experiences making this track, and in this episode, you’ll hear from him along with the archival interviews with John Lennon, Ringo Starr, and Billy Preston. You’ll also hear the original demo for “God,” and outtakes from the recording sessions at Abbey Road studios. They recorded the final version of this song on October 9, 1970—John Lennon’s 30th birthday. Archival audio sources: - John Lennon's audio was excerpted from an interview with Rolling Stone's Jann S. Wenner, recorded on December 8, 1970. The full interview can be found here. With grateful thanks to Jann S. Wenner for his permission and collaboration. - Arthur Janov and Billy Preston's quotes came from interviews conducted in 2005 owned by Yoko Ono Lennon. With grateful thanks to Yoko Ono Lennon for her permission and collaboration. - Ringo Starr's audio came from the 2008 Classic Albums documentary on John Lennon / Plastic Ono Band, directed by Matthew Longfellow. With grateful thanks to Ringo Starr for his permission and collaboration. For more, visit songexploder.net/john-lennon.

You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs, and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirwe. This episode contains explicit language. Earlier this year, I got the most amazing email. The estate of John Lennon said they have a treasure trove of audio material from his life, and they were wondering if I would be interested in making an episode around the song God from John Lennon's first solo album. I've never tried making a posthumous episode before, because hearing directly from the artist is at the heart of Song Exploder.

But with all the interview archives that they have of him speaking, plus all the isolated tracks from the recordings and the original demo, it actually seemed possible. So this is a very different and special episode of the show. In September 1969, John Lennon told the rest of the Beatles that he was leaving the group. Their breakup was announced publicly in April 1970, And that December, John Lennon released his first solo album, John Lennon Plastic Ono Band. The Plastic Ono Band was the name for a rotating group of musicians that John and his wife, the artist Yoko Ono, had put together.

For the making of God, the band included Ringo Star on drums, Billy Preston on piano, and Klaus Forman on bass. I got to interview Klaus Forman about his experiences making this track. And in this episode, you'll hear from him, along with archival interviews with him. John Lennon, Ringo Starr, and Billy Preston. You'll also hear the original demo for God and outtakes from the recording sessions at Abbey Road Studios. They recorded the final version of this song on October 9th, 1970, John Lennon's 30th birthday.

But the story of God, and what it was about and what it was inspired by, really begins with the breakup of the Beatles. We were four guys that I met Paul, said, do you want to join me band? And then George joined. And then Ringo joined. We were just a band.

who made it very, very big, that's all. And we made it very, very big, but we sold out, you know. My own taste is different from that which I've played sometimes, which is called cop-out, you know, to make money or whatever, or because I didn't know any better. And didn't really enjoy writing third-person songs about people who lived in concrete flats and things. I like first-person music.

But because of my hang-ups and many other things, I would only now and then specifically write about me The only true songs I ever wrote were like Help and Strawberry Fields, you know. They were the ones that I really wrote from experience. I'm not projecting myself into a situation and writing a nice story about it, which I always found phony. And now I wrote all about me. And that's why I like it. It's me and nobody else. In 1970, John Lennon and Yoko Ono started working with psychologist Arthur Janoff, who created primal therapy.

Primal therapy is based on the idea that we all carry around unprocessed trauma and internalized pain from very, very early on in childhood. And instead of processing that trauma, we find other ways to coexist with it. In a nutshell, primal therapy allowed us to feel feelings continually, and those feelings usually make you cry. Because before I wasn't feeling things, that's all. I can feel my own fear. I can feel my own pain, therefore I can handle it. it better than I could before. Here's an excerpt from an interview with psychologist Arthur Janoff.

We had a talk, John, and I went before he made that album. And he said, well, what about God? And I went into a long discourse about, you know, people have a lot of pain and they tend to believe. And the less pain they have, the less they believe. And he said, oh, something like,

well, do you mean that God is a concept by which we measure our pain? I said, yeah, that's what it. And so he wrote it. This home recording was made in the summer of 1970, right around the time when John and Yoko were attending Arthur Janof's primal therapy sessions. I had the idea, God is a concept by which we measure our pain. So when you have a word like that, you just sit down and sing the first tune that comes into your head,

and the tune is the simple, God is a concept. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And then, like, a lot of the words, they just came out of my mouth. God is a concept I wish we measure And then I just rolled into I don't believe in magic And it was just going on in my head

And I don't know when I realized I was putting down All these things that I didn't believe in You know I Ching and Bible The first three or four just came out Whatever came out, you know I don't believe in magic

I don't believe in I Ching I could have gone on It was like a Christmas card list You know I thought, well, where do I end? You know, Churchill and whoever missed out, it got like that. You know, and I thought, I had to stop, you know. And I was going to leave a gap and say, just fill in your own, you know, for whoever you don't believe in.

It was just got out of hand, you know. But Beatles was the final thing because it's like I no longer believe in myth, you know. And Beatles is another myth, you know. I don't believe in me, I just believe in me. That's real. In September 1970, John Lennon started assembling musicians to record his new songs. That included Klaus Vorman. He was the bassist in Manfred Mann, and he was a longtime friend of the Beatles.

He made the cover art for their album Revolver. Well, he asked me to be in the Plastic Owner Band, and I was knocked out. And then it came to, now I'm going to do the Plastic Ono Band LP, and do you want to do play on the sessions. And when I heard Ringo was there, I was so happy. I mean, I always wanted to play with Ringo and I never really had the chance up to then. Here's Ringo Starr.

We would just sort of jam and then we'd find out how they would sort of go when we did them. It was very loose, actually. And it being a trio also was a lot of fun. In spite of all the things that Beatles really could play music together when they weren't uptight.

And if I get a thing going, Ringo knows where to go, you know, like that. We've played together. so long that it fits. So the three of them started recording at Abbey Road Studios in London. Well, on this session, he always came in with his songs. I think the first version he did was playing it on a guitar. I mean, we were sitting in the studio, and he was playing it.

God is a concept by which we measure our pain. Yes, we do. We never heard the songs before. Ringo hasn't heard it. I hadn't heard it. We're it completely fresh. I don't believe in bubble bubble. I don't believe in the rubble trouble. I haven't got the word, you see. Okay, so how about that? Concept by which we measure our pain God is a concert. What key was that, class?

D? D. We'll take one and then let me listen. See, I haven't got a concept in my head about this other than it's meant to be gospel and it doesn't sound anything like it, you know. What? No, I don't like it like this at all. In fact, I don't feel in the mood for any of this. You know, we could do. It's just such a shame to come in all the way and sprout about for two hours and then go, you know. Sprouting them out for two hours.

Yes, yes. Maybe I should play it on piano, you know. And then he went to do. to the piano and he played it very simple and he really liked it. I can play piano even worse than I play guitar. So that's a limited palette as they call it, you know? I have to think in terms of go from C to A and all like that and I'm not quite sure where I am half the time.

So it's that kind of feel about it, you know? That's reality. Oh sorry, I fucked the ended. I liked all that beginning. I always like simple rock and nothing else. I was influenced by acid and got psychedelic, you know, like the whole generation. But really, I like rock and roll, you know. And I express myself best in rock because it's primitive enough and it has no bullshit.

When you just hear the piano does it all for you, your mind can do the rest of it. If you've got an ear, you can hear. Any musician will tell you, just play a note on a piano. It's got them harmonics in it. So we got to that, you know. What the hell I didn't need anything else. It's a concept. Hey, that sounded great to me.

Oh, but the plane was tremendous. Is it too fast? Let me just get me... Oh, that's it, okay. Okay, okay. Stop it down, and all. And then you went back to the guitar and asked me, Klaus, you played a few.

and I can't really play rock and roll piano really well. I mean, I learned classical piano, but I played a few little licks that sort of were a little gospel-like. And I think that's the moment where they clicked with them. Why don't we ask Billy Preston to come in and play? Well, John Lennon to me was the boss beetle. He was really a character. He was witty and just a lot of fun. He did whatever he wanted. He felt like you're doing.

Yeah. John was really a character. was the Boss Beetle. Billy Preston was a Grammy-winning musician. He played organ, piano, and other keyboards as a session player in the 60s, with legends like Little Richard, Sam Cook, Ray Charles, and the Rolling Stones. He recorded with the Beatles on their last two albums. This last May, 15 years after his passing, he was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And this is him playing piano.

I met the Beatles in 1962 when I was on tour with Little Richard. I was playing organ for Little Richard, and they were opening act on the show. And we played one show in Liverpool, and then we went to Hamburg, Germany for two weeks, and that's where we really became good friends. We hung out there, and I used to get them free coax and steaks at the club, because I was with Richard so I can get things, you know. And they would always hang around me and ask me things about America and different things, so we became good partners.

Billy is fantastic. I love the man so much. And Ringo said that he never heard Billy play a wrong note in his whole life. When he played, I feel that he's really holding back. And he's not playing the gospel piano as crazy as he can. He really knew, I have to do some that really supports the song. And as much as there is space for it, I do something. But he could have done much more, which wouldn't have fitted the song so well.

And Ringo loves that to play as simple as you possibly can. And that's the same with me. It was perfectly clear what we were going to play. And at the moment when John starts singing a song and you hear his voice and you hear what he's saying, you automatically know what you have to play. The simplicity of what Klaus and I played with him gave him a great opportunity to actually for the first time really use his voice how he and his emotion how he could, you know. I don't believe in Tarrot.

Don't believe in Hitler, in Jesus, in Bud. Ringo always said in interviews that he never plays the same fill again. And he says, if you ask me to play that same fill again, he can't do it. He can only do what he feels at the time. We just clicked together and it was just so much fun. And you know, Ringo actually said the way we played, that's the best band he ever played. We went in the control room and listened to one take

and he said, I just believe in me. And then he came up to me and said, Klaus, do you think I should say Yoko and me? And then I told John, look, that's a question, I cannot answer for you. You know, that's something you have to know by yourself. Not lots of people know Yoko, but she is very delicate and very fine feeling. And her presence was really good. It was fantastic for John and it was good for us too.

You know that lots of people were opposed to it and they felt like John had gone nuts or something, being with Yoko and all this, you know. It was terrible. That was a terrible situation. I mean, the very, very first time when Yoko came in, and Ringo hadn't seen much of Yoko, he was very upset. We all had our wives and our families, and then we'd go to work and come back.

Suddenly, Yoko was living in the studio with us. It freaked us out, freaked me out anyway. Because he had his John from the Beatles, and now she suddenly had John. and Yoko. And he had a hard time to get used to this. But John was really good. He went up to Ringo and said, look, Ringo, you know me, but now it's Yoko and me. We both are together. And that's how it is. And that made him feel much better. And then the next days, everything was fine. And I asked him, I said, you know, what is going on? He says, well, you know, we're going to spend

every minute together. So as soon as you knew that, you were cool. And that's what they did. You could tell it was a lovely companionship. They were always holding and, you know, kissing and dancing around. They were always together. There's nothing more important than our relationship. Nothing. Both of us could survive apart.

But what phone? I'm not going to sacrifice love, real love, for any friend or any business. Because in the end, you're alone at night. neither of us want to be and nothing works better than to have somebody who love holy. Just believe in me Yoko and me

that's reality. John never liked his voice and when he was with the Beatles he always put lots of effects on his voice to cover up that because he thought the voice didn't sound good that's what he thought. He used to get a bit embarrassing in front of Jordan Paul

because we know each other so well or look he's trying to be Elvis always doing this now. We're a bit super. super critical of each other, so we inhibited each other a lot. But this time it was my album, and now I had Yoko there, okay, so I can perform better, and I relaxed, you know. The dream's over, you know, and I'm not just talking about the Beatles is all,

I'm talking about the generation thing, you know, the dream's over, like, it's over, you know, and we gotta, well I have, anyway, personally got to get down to so-called reality. He was really trying to say something with his, I don't believe. He meant that sort of belief where people, for example, are in despair. And the last thing they ask for is, ah, God help me. I believe in you. And that's what he doesn't believe in. He says the help, you only get out of yourself.

You can't ask for anybody to give it to you. And that's what you have to do. And if you don't believe in yourself, you're fucked. John was a very, very spiritual guy, and he had a big heart. And he was very sincere in what he did and what he stood for him. He was always brave. He would put it out there. And the consequences sometimes were very harsh.

But he would always put it out there. And that's why you could not love him. You're born in pain, you know. And pain is what we're in most of the time. And I think the bigger the pain, the more gods we need, you know. Creating is a result of pain, too. I have to put it somewhere. And I write songs, you know, because that's the thing I chose to do, you know.

I can't help writing them. That's the fact. And now, here's God by John Lennon in its entirety. I'd say it again. That is a concept by which we measure. Visit SongExploder.net for more. You can find links to buy or stream God.

There's a new eight-disc box set called John Lennon Plastic Ono Band, The Ultimate Collection. And a lot of the material in this episode, like the outtakes and the original home recording, can also be found on there. On the Song Exploder site, there's also a list of all the archival interview sources

that were used to make this episode. My deepest thanks to Yoko Ono and Sean Ono Lennon, and to Simon Hilton and Sam Gannon from John Lennon's estate, and to Tim Plumley from Universal, for the invitation to make this episode, and for all their help in completing it. I have a new album of my own coming out on April 24th. It's been about 15 years since I last put out a full length,

and this is the first one that'll be out under my own name, Rishikesh, Her Way. I started making Song Exploder when I was feeling lost in my own music career, And then for over a decade, I've gotten to have these incredible conversations about the process of making music talking to other artists. And it made me completely rethink my relationship to music and my way of writing songs. And this album is the product of all of that. It features contributions from some of my favorite artists, including some folks that you may have heard on this podcast, like Iron and Wine, Kevin Morby, Vagabon, Fenlily, and the producer Phil Winerobe. I'm going to be on tour playing in cities across the U.S. starting in April. and I'm trying to bring the spirit of the podcast with me.

So every show that I'm playing will begin with a conversation about the album with a different amazing guest moderator in each city, like Adam Scott, Samin Nasrat, Jason Manzukas, Josh Molina, Minjin Lee, Ken Jennings, John Roderick, Austin, and more. They're all going to be my conversation partners on stage, and then I'll play with my band. The album is called In The Last Hour of Light, and the first couple songs are out now. You can listen to the music and get tickets for the shows on my website, rishikash.co. Or just go to songexploder.net slash live.

That's songexploder.net slash live. Thanks. This episode was produced by me and Christian Coons. My interview with Klaus Verman was engineered in Germany by Michael Bartlefski. Editing help came from Craig Ely and Casey Deal, music clearance by Kathleen Smith, and the episode artwork was made by Carlos Lermer. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts.

You can learn more about all our shows at Radiotopia.fm. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Rishi Hereway, and you can follow the show at Song Exploder. You can also get a Song Exploder t-shirt at SongExploder.net slash shirt. I'm Rishi-Kesh-Hirway. Thanks for listening. Radiotopia.