Song Exploder - Run the Jewels - JU$T

Episode Date: October 21, 2020

Rapper Killer Mike and rapper/producer El-P first met in 2011. They both had established rap careers, but they entered a new era when they started making music together as Run the Jewels in 2013. They’ve been nominated for a Grammy, and they released their fourth album, RTJ4, in June 2020. Like all of their albums, they made it available to download for free. In this episode, El-P and Killer Mike break down the song "JU$T," which features guest vocals from their frequent collaborator, Zack de la Rocha from Rage Against the Machine, and guest vocals from Pharrell Williams. songexploder.net/run-the-jewels

You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs, and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway. This episode contains explicit language. Killer Mike and LP first met in 2011. They both had established rap careers, but they entered a new era when they started making music together as Run the Jewels in 2013. They've been nominated for a Grammy, and they released their fourth album in June 2020. Like all of their albums, they made it available to download for free. In this episode, LP and Killer Mike break down the song Just,

which features guest vocals from their frequent collaborator, Zach De La Roca from Rage Against the Machine, and guest vocals from Farrell Williams. Here's LP, who produced the track. We did the majority of the writing of this record at Rick Rubin's studio in Shangri-La. We always like to kind of get out of our own spaces and come together in some other space

so that we could really get a vibe going. And by the time, me and Mike get together in the studio, I know that I have, you know, 10 or 12 things that I think might spark something creative in both me and Mike. And sometimes it's more flushed out, but a lot of times it's just, let me see if I can get a big, goofy grin on my partner's face by playing this little weird thing. It's really just about getting a spark and then trying to harness it. This one started with thinking about basing a beat around vocals, which is something that is not something that we, had done yet together on a record. And so that's kind of what led us to experimenting with different vocal, synths, and things,

you know, and none of that felt particularly right. And then we ended up going to somebody who had sung some backup vocals for us on some TV performances, Nicholas Ryan Gant, who's this amazing soul singer from Brooklyn. So we kind of gave him a general spectrum of notes, and this is sort of the vibe that we're going for, and he ended up doing a bunch of different demos for us of different approaches and different parts. I really thought that I was just doing it as a way to demo it up, and then in my mind we would go to, you know, someone else.

But he was just so good, and he sent us a bunch of shit. What ended up in the hook were these long notes. The trick was actually not overusing it, to be honest. The trick was trying to restrain myself. from layering it too much and from using too much of it because I wanted it to be bouncy and sparse and punctuated. So I started to chop it up and move it around. I thought it would be really cool to create a piece of music

that was based really just around almost a duop-y harmonic thing and have the bounce of that. And the drums was what really, you know, drove the whole thing. You know, you never know what's going to spark your friend, you know. The real linchpin is whether or not Mike feels it. I was like, this is the coolest shit in the fucking world. Like, it just had a, what we're in the South collar joke to it. I'm a big-time Outcast fan, you know, being from Atlanta.

This felt like Equimini's-to-meet and not like it sound, but in times of what our fans are used to hearing from us. Like Equimini did that for me as an Outcast fan, which is why I ended up using the pattern that I used on it, There's a stutter pattern that lives in the South that I felt compelled to do. Been in time, I'm on mine. I be minding minding mine. Every time on my grind, I'm just trying to shine.

Make a dollar government they want a dozen die. The pity kind might kill you because they see you shine. It's an old southern pattern, that stutter pattern. Lord Infamous did it. Project Pat does it. The Migos have mastered it 10 times over. And he said, he told me he was going to add aloes. He said it.

but I didn't know what he meant. It's written to be calling response. I wrote that for the audience because I look forward to getting back on stage and I visualize it as I'm doing it. The crowd saying, get money back to me. Been in time, I'm on mine. I be minding mine.

Every time on my grind, I'm just trying to shine. I loved when Mike added the layer of the ad lips because Mike's original verse was none of the responses were in. So it was this very broken-up, spark. thing. So when he added that layer of ad-libs, that's when I realized how fucking genius my partner was. I didn't have to have a talk with myself plenty times. Am I a hypocrite? Because I know I did plenty of crime. I get broke too many times. I might slain some pines. You believe corporations running marijuana. When he said, back to trapping. And then he keeps going, they say,

how that happened? You know, he's saying I'm back because I need to make. money because I have to feed myself and my family and I'll go right the fuck back to wherever I have to go in order to make it happen. If shit got bad to feed my wife and children, I absolutely would resort to crime. And that's what happens in any capitalistic system, you know. I'm a capitalist, right? Not because I believe that capitalism is the greatest system ever. I'm a compassionate capitalist because I grew up in the capitalistic system. I've been both a benefactor from it and a victim of it. more so than not my community a victim of it.

But I've had to understand capitalism from the bottom up and had to make a way. But money in my life has led me to some very positive things and giving me the freedom to be a benefactor to my community, a philanthropist, and to speak the unadulterated truth in a room full of people because I have a good job. I sing and dance for a living. Money has also corrupted me as a child and made me a drug dealer

because everyone was selling drugs and anyone with common sense would have taken a $1,000 bomb a crack hole, if it was fronted to him at 13, because they knew they could make 400 bucks off of it. You know what I'm saying? I have a guilt from formerly being a drug dealer, but when they say, corporations don't feel guilt. They sell drugs.

I get broke too many time, I might sling some pines. You believe corporations running marijuana, ooh, and your country being ran by a casino owner. Ooh! Pedophile, sponsor all these fucking racist bouts. They do. You know, what we try and do is partners is we try and do pick up on what we can take from what the inspiration is from our partner and use it as DNA of what we're saying. He's talking about the conflict of money, and he's talking about the politics

that arise out of that. So I took where he was starting and extrapolated my own sort of perspective on it and also with a point to make. I come from New York City, so one of the biggest events, you know, psychically and literally in New York City over the past 10 years was the murder of Eric Garner, who was killed because he was trying to sell loose cigarettes. And if you come from New York City, you know that smoking to Lucy is part of how you grow up. You go to the store, you give them a quarter, and you get a cigarette. Sometimes people sell them to you outside. This is a normal thing.

This is a small economy, but it's money. It's money-related. Beepi, Richard, this is New York City. The ex on a mat with a paint key pin pin pin pin pin in. Just a stuck here sitting. When murderous choco, cops still earn in a living. Funny how some say money don't matter. I do rich now in there, get it, comedy, try to sell packets,

supposed to get food, get killed, it's not in anomaly, hey, it's just money. I do really rap with one of my favorite rappers in the world, so I'm a fortunate guy. There are times where you hear patterns from other rappers, and you're like, motherfucker, if only I would have grabbed that first or heard that in the beat. Man, you better thug out, get the bag in a bug out.

Try the wrong home, you might run your luck out. Just when your bass is loaded, they'll roll a grenade in the thugout. That line, that that roller grenade in the dugout. It really was a pure, beautiful sentiment for how far evil is willing to go to make sure good doesn't prevail. Just when we got the bases loaded, just when we could get this shit right, these motherfuckers will put a grenade in the dugout and blow up the whole game. Sometimes you want a metaphor that almost everybody can understand simply to slip in the idea that there is a rigging of institution.

Even if you get to the point where you've lined everything up correctly the way that it's supposed to be lined up, they will break the rules and kill you from the other side when you're not looking. Then we reached out to Zach and said, yeah, you got to drop on the shit. And he said, Bet, I'm on it. To those who don't know, Zach De LaRocca is the legendary frontman for Rage Against the Machine. And he is a friend, a good friend of both mine and mics, and someone that I personally consider a family member, he's become sort of the unofficial third member of Run the Jewels in a sense.

Zach actually recorded his verse at his home. 2020, ruin the map. Wrong one cut in my hourglass. Don't watch it spill to the bottom half. You see the piece now run it fast. On a tarmac get a starter jack. C4 when I run it back like a track star run a record lap. Nah, like when it's needle catch.

Zach demoed it up at his house and sent it to me. to say, okay, I'm going to, here's the demo, I'm going to come through and do the verse. And I was like, no, you're not. You already did the verse. It's incredible. You're not going to touch this. This sound, what you captured here is perfect. And it was on an SM 57, which is literally the standard kind of shitty stage mic that everyone uses.

It was distorted and it sounded like Zach. Cleet, look, port pugilist, a shooter's view with a prudal flick. Too woo for your rudiments. Who convinced you? move against the crew in this coming up through the fence. A motherfucker spit high fire. I mean, shit. Zach Daylorke, man, first of all, rock and roll should be grateful that hip hop allowed them to

get such an elite MC on the trade. He's the Bo Jackson of this shit, essentially. He's playing two sports accidentally, so, you know. The fact that he still manages to be clear, political, clever, but also has the bounce and the funk. rappers, you know, they just can't even pull it off. That's just a fact. How can we be the piece when the beast gonna reach for the worst?

Tear all the flesh of the earth. Stay set for a deafening, reckoning, quick like the pace of my verse. So I'm questioning. This quest for things is a recipe for early death threatening. But the breath of me is weaponry for you with just money. Then we were hanging out and Farrell came by. We played him some jams. And he was like, this is amazing, you know.

And he basically just said, if you need me for anything, let me know. And then he disappeared. Like some sort of ageless elf that just fucking just flew away, you know, like a magic man. And we were just like, oh, my God, like, that was amazing. You know, Farrell just said he's down to work with us. And in my mind, of course, you're fantasizing about what the fuck could that be. I mean, you know, we have Mike's verse. It's grimy.

We have my verse. It's grimy. We have Zach's verse. It's super grimy. Then you're trying to imagine Farrell on here, and you're like, well, I know that this is the guy from Super Thug and Clips, and this is also the guy from Happy, and this is also the guy from, you know, these amazing gigantic pop songs, and he's got so much range. There's no way to predict what Farrell is going to give you. And he had it all figured out. Mastered economics because you took yourself from squalor.

Slave. Mastered academics because your grace at you were scholar. Slave. Master in Instagram because you can instigate a follow. Look at all these slave masters posing on your dollar. When he came with that shit, it was mind-blowing. It was like, holy shit, this is harder and more cutting than anything we could have asked for. It really felt like he really paid attention to what Run the Jules was and what we were saying. And he really wrote for us.

And that was an honor to have someone of that level, of that talent, really pay attention and really take it seriously. And he did. The song starts with these four hits. And I was wondering if that was at all inspired by Farrell. Yep. Boom, boom, boom. That was my nod to Farrell and my nod to the Neptunes. That's a signature that Farrell incorporates in his beats all the time.

He does the four count with the kick before the thing starts. So for the music heads, it was funny. And I had a lot of people being like, so Farrell produced the track, right? And I was like, well, no. They were like, oh, I thought because of the thing in the beginning, I was like, well, that's, Pharrell did produce the track in that regard because without Farrell, that would not have happened. Absolutely.

Master of these politics, you swear that you got options. Slaid. Master of opinion, because you vote with a white collar. The 13th Amendment says that slavery's abolished. Yeah. Look at all these slave masters posing on your dollar. And he wanted Mike to do all. all of the, look at all these slave masters posing on your dollars.

But the thing about it is, Forel sounds so goddamn cool. I cannot bring myself to cut. I can't. I can't do it. I can't bring myself to cut him. It was something so powerful about hearing Forel say that because a lot of people just forget that this dude is a real, like, he's got that grimy side to him.

And hearing him say that is really powerful. It's something you might expect Mike to say, but not everyone would expect Forel to say. So I didn't want to cut that out. of that. And we figured out other ways to do it. You know, Mike took the back half of the hook. Look at all these slave masters posing on your dollar.

Look at all these slave masters posing on your dollar. Look at all these slave masters posing on your dollar. Then I hit up Zach and asked him to do his version of it. There's one thing that working with Zach is that when he's in rapper mode, sometimes you got to tell Zach, hey, I need rage against the machine Zach for this one. one line. You know what I mean? Like, I need that energy for this one moment. You've got to say

that shit with thumbtacks and whiskey in your throat. Look at all these slaves, messes. The relationship and the truth between institutional violence and money. That's something that me and Mike are very aware of and something that we examine on

this album a lot. And at the end of the day, it is a control system based on those transactions. It was me dealing with my relationship with this system and money. as both being a benefactor of it and being a victim of it. All that contradiction that is being an American was put into those bars. People try to tell you that, hey, money doesn't mean anything.

Free yourself from money. Money doesn't matter. That's not what it's about. And that's all well and good. But until you can not be murdered by a police officer for trying to make a little bit of money, then maybe it is what it's about. And now here's Just by Run the Jewels. in its entirety.

You believe corporations running there are a country being ram by Now that's the line that's probably gonna be my ass-and-suff and sacks Master of these politics you swear that you got options right Master of opinion look at all these slave masters posing on your dollar get it Look at all these slave masters posing on your dollar get it POSURG-in on your future say man you better thunk out get the bag in a bug out Try to one home you might run your lockout Because just when your bases loaded they'll roll a grenade in the thugout

Earth vote, not a mellow bunch, we got a thumbs that I don't think we'll be left for too much. Hand of my heart of my mind, now my drugs, got a body got punched for your Atlas truck. It's not love, it's just that dumb. Lord Sweet Buddha, please make me numb. Rain, bounce off walls like a ciny and room, but just found out it's created stupid. Listen, plus got shrooms in the blood I'm fooling. BP, Richie, this is New York City. The ex on the mat with the pain keep in it.

Just as ducks here shitting. My murderous choco, cops still earn in a living. Funny how some say money don't matter. That's rich now, in there. Get it, comedy. Try to sell pack, spokes to get food, get killed. It's not an anomaly. Hey, it's just money.

Master at the Ghanmi's because you took yourself from squalas. Master at academics, because your grace of you were scholars. Like, master in Instagram. All these slave masters. Let it sink in. 2020, run the map. Wrong on cut in my hourglass. Don't watch its fill to the bottom half.

Like, when it's a deal catch, free for you, just money. For more info on Run the Jewels, visit songexploder.net. You'll find links to buy or stream Just, and you can watch the lyric video for it. I have a new album of my own coming out on April 24th. It's been about 15 years since I last put out a full length, and this is the first one that'll be out under my own name, Rishi Keishkeh Her Way. I started making Song Exploder when I was feeling lost in my own music career. And then for over a decade, I've gotten to have these incredible conversations

about the process of making music, talking to other artists, and it made me completely rethink my relationship to music and my way of writing songs. and this album is the product of all of that. It features contributions from some of my favorite artists, including some folks that you may have heard on this podcast, like Iron and Wine, Kevin Morby, Vagabon, Fenlily, and the producer Phil Wynrope. I'm going to be on tour playing in cities across the U.S. starting in April,

and I'm trying to bring the spirit of the podcast with me. So every show that I'm playing will begin with a conversation about the album with a different amazing guest moderator in each city, like Adam Scott, Samin Nasrat, Jason Manzuchas, Josh Molina, Minjin Lee, Ken Jennings, John Roderick, Austin Cleon, and more. They're all going to be my conversation partners on stage, and then I'll play with my band. The album is called In The Last Hour of Light, and the first couple songs are out now. You can listen to the music and get tickets for the shows on my website, rishikash.co, or just go to songexploder.net slash live.

That's songexploder.net slash live. Thanks. Song Exploder is made by me, Rishi Kshirway, with producer Christian Coons, production assistant Olivia Wood, and illustrator Carlos Lermo. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a collective of creative, independent podcasts.

You can learn more about our shows at Radiotopia.fm. You can get a Song Exploder t-shirt at songexploder.net slash shirt. You can also follow the show on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at Song Exploder. My name is Rishi Kesh Hereway. Thanks for listening. Radiotopia.