Song Exploder - Sam Fender - People Watching

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

Sam Fender is a singer and songwriter from the town of North Shields in England. He won the Brit Award for Best Rock/Alternative Act twice. His most recent album is called People Watching, and just like his first two albums, it went to #1 on the UK album charts. To help produce the album, Sam enlisted Adam Granduciel, the singer and frontman of the band The War on Drugs. For this episode, I talked to Sam, and his bandmate Joe Atkinson, about the title track from People Watching, and the long journey that it took to get made, from Sam’s kitchen, to the Hollywood Hills, to Abbey Road.

You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs, and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirway. Sam Fender is a singer and songwriter from the town of North Shields in England. He won the Brit Award for Best Rock and Alternative Act twice. His most recent album is called People Watching, and just like his first two albums, it went to number one on the UK album charts. To help produce the album, Sam enlisted Adam Grandesiel, the singer and frontman of the Grammy-winning band, The War on Drugs. For this episode, I talked to Sam and his bandmate Joe Atkinson

about the title track from people watching and the long journey that it took to get made, from Sam's Kitchen to the Hollywood Hills to Abbey Road. Could I just ask you each to introduce yourselves? Yeah, I'm Sam Fender. I'm Joe Atkinson. I play keyboards for Sam and helping in the studio with the production and stuff like that.

Yes, and we've known each other for ages. Yeah. When did you first meet? Probably 14. Yeah. We used to be in rival bands. When you were 14 years old? Yeah.

If there was ever like a local band competition, it would always be like us too pitted against each other. Because where we live, North Shields, it's like, I love it. It's the best town of the world, but it's not connected to the music industry or anything. You know, it's a fishing town. Back in those days, was your relationship mainly about playing music together or did you hang out otherwise as well? I think with us, it's like we all grew up together, you know?

Yeah. And like, we are family really. like Joe's just like a brother to me. So what was happening in your life around the time when the first ideas for people watching started coming to you? I was back home and somebody who was very, very close to me, she's called Annie Orwin. She was an actor and she was like my surrogate mother.

She got sick and she was sick for quite a long time. And how did you first meet Annie? So when I was a kid, my grandmother was like, he's hyper and we should put him in something that he can express himself in and do some, so she put me in this local community centre acting class when I was like 13. And that was like my grandma would pay for that. And I think it was only like a fiver.

And some kids actually didn't even pay. Like she was like a community hero, Annie. And I had quite a low self-esteem when I first met her. I was getting bullied in school. And I didn't really have a lot of confidence. And she gave us pretty much, I think, all of them. the confidence that I have. So I did loads of little bits of acting and stuff

when I was a kid, like just sort of community theatre stuff. But it made us be able to go on stage and do what we do, you know. And, you know, there was loads of plans. Like we had a plan like when I was a kid, there was a war planning to move down to London. And she was like, you know, we can try out your music and you're acting down there. She was always really supportive. And she was the first person, I think, in my life that ever made me believe that

this was like a viable thing to do as a career. You know, she was always like, you're a star kid. So she meant a lot to us, you know. She became like one of my best friends. And even once the acting stuff stopped, I was like still, you know, really good friends with her in my 20s. And I used to go around to hers

and she had periods where she was a lot better and periods where like our cancer was under control. And, you know, we used to just drink a bottle of wine and bitch, to be honest, like most of the time. She used to always go, You never mentioned me in any of these awards. Like, you get an award and you don't mention my name at all. And I used to be like, well, I'm sorry.

She's like, I should be the first person you think of whenever you get an award for something. And I was like, oh, Jesus, I'm sorry, you know. Was she joking? Oh, she was serious. Well, she was joking, but there was definitely an element of her. She was like, no, she was serious about it. And then, not last year, but the year beforehand, I'd basically got a call off my other good friend, Joe,

who was also like one of her protégers. And he was like, you know, I think, I think this is going to happen. It was really bizarre because I went to see her. And the whole plan was I was going to get her out of the care home. And she was seemed in fine spirits. And I think some doctor came in and basically was really negative. And she just started deteriorating really quickly. so she said, you know, she didn't want to be alone.

So I was like, well, I'll stay. And so did Joe and so did our wonderful nieces. We just slept on the chair next door, you know, for like five days, in and out trying to do shifts. We'd go home for a couple of hours to try and get some sleep. And it was really, really, like, grueling. But, like, beautiful thing. Like, it was an honour to be able to be there with her at the very end, you know.

You know, she died in my arms, you know? Like, I held her hand. And, whoa, I just, you know what it is? I haven't actually spoke about it. Like, yeah. And it was like, but it was beautiful in the end. I had this piano chord progression. And I've got this little piano, which I got from, like, a school.

And we just put a load of pin tacks into the keys, which make it sound like metallic. Like the hammers are obviously metal hitting metal. Really percussive sound. Really percussive, really bright. Kind of like an old honky tonk piano. And I've got that in my kitchen. And I was like, what's this song about?

It's definitely about something. Then Annie died. And I was like going through all of that. And then it was like, oh, it's Annie's song. I was doing a demo on my phone, my garage band. And I don't use a microphone or anything. I don't have it plugged in any gear. Because I'm like, I'm like an idiot when it comes to tech.

So I'll just go like D-D-D-T-T-D-T-D-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T-T- In the fucking loop, like a bachillion baux. I'll record a piano for two bars and then just copy and paste that along. And then I'll find a bass. What I tend to do is find a loop

so that I can listen to it and then eventually the lyrics come and the melody forms around it. When I woke back from the care home, back to my house, I was people watching, you know? Like, that was my son. my sort of escapism was just watching people pass by and seeing what was going on in their lives

and I was obviously thinking a lot about life and death at the time and how such a big character was about to leave this plane of existence and how kind of, you know, everything just keeps moving, the world keeps turning and everybody's still living their lives and going through their struggles. And, you know, and I think at the time

I was also thinking about Britain being, you know, the cost of living crisis was a lot, in the news at the time. And, you know, there was an element of guilt that I had because we're doing well and a lot of the people that we know back home are, you know, struggling to even feed our kids. And so, you know, it was all of that was kind of swimming

in the, in the atmosphere. I think it is, I used to feel just the beauty of... Joe, do you remember the first time you heard this iPhone demo? Yeah, we went into the studio, Sleeper Sounds, and Sam was playing it to us and we were just like, wow, me and Dean and Drew was there as well. And we were like, wow, this is awesome. Sam, when you played the demo for them,

did the sort of grief and the feelings that you were feeling about Annie's passing, did they still feel fresh at the time? Yeah, it was mega fresh because it was only in November, you know. Aside from Annie as well, like there'd been a lot of death. Yeah. In all of our lives. Yeah. So I think the band connected to it because we'd all kind of lost people and friends.

And it was, I think that's the only way we know how to sort of, deal with these things and process these things as an artist like that's how you deal with these things joe did you know how much annie meant to sam yeah but unfortunately i'd never met annie in my life but sam would always fondly talk about her and even when we were kids i remember him being like i'm going to do my acting thing i want to see annie and stuff and yeah so obviously it you know it did strike a chord because i knew how close they were and why sleeper sounds why were you working there it's a a decent space to just to write things and get things moving. You know, you just sat there doing it and it just comes together really quickly.

And I like to work fast because I feel like a lot of the time with a song, you've got to strike while the iron's hot. Because if you don't, you lose that energy and that excitement for the song. There's nothing better than when you're like, it's like you're chasing a song. I feel like you're always chasing them down. You're like, let's get to the next bit right. Okay, let's record this acoustic. Let's put some synths in.

then you came up with a melody and it was just a little duper do-p-dook-dip-d-dip-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d on the whirley. Who's playing drums here? That's how I drew? That's true, yeah. Could I ask you about the tempo of this song? Because given what the song's about,

I could imagine an inclination towards, you know, writing something more like a ballad or just something much slower as a tribute to grief. I mean, like, that feels maybe like a natural place to go. What was it about this kind of tempo that felt right to you about what you were writing about? Well, I wanted it to be like that feeling of liberation when you're kind of getting over grief or like coming to the more accepting phase of grief. I think because I was so desperately

wanting to get there myself, I wanted the music to get us there as well, like I suppose, you know? Yeah. Sounds wangy saying that, you know what I mean? It doesn't at all. Not at all, yeah. Annie was such a larger than life person and I wanted something to be more celebratory and have that kind of euphoria

because she put so much euphoria into the world and into my world especially as a young lad and like I wanted that to be reflected in the music but I never got the chorus so this chorus the original chorus this just wasn't good enough for you yeah I was like I've got to get it right I can't make it like it can't be crap

do what I mean? It's about Annie. So it kind of just sat like half a song for like a few months. Yeah, a little while, yeah. For quite a few months. Normally the songs come together so quick. And this one was such a bastard. We needed somebody else to kind of help get it across the line. I mean, we could have done it ourselves really,

but it was like we're at this point in our career where like, we're really lucky that we could like pretty much call on anybody and the label would back it. So it was like, I want to work with one of my heroes. Do I mean? I was like, why not? We have a saying in Newcastle where we're from. It's shy burns getting out.

And that means like shy kids get nothing. So I just asked the label. I was like, can ask Adam Graniceil from war on drugs? And they're like, yeah, of course, we'll get his number. And then I just called them up and spoke to him about this idea. I sent him some songs. And he was like, he fell in love of them. And he called back straight away.

And then we were just on the phone for like an hour and a half. talking about Tom Petty. So it went from that to LA with Adam. My conversation with Sam Fender and Joe Atkinson continues after this. I have a new album of my own coming out on April 24th. It's been about 15 years since I last put out a full length. And this is the first one that'll be out under my own name, Rishikesh Her Way. I started making Song Exploder when I was feeling lost in my own music career.

And then for over a decade, I've gotten to have. these incredible conversations about the process of making music, talking to other artists, and it made me completely rethink my relationship to music and my way of writing songs. And this album is the product of all of that. It features contributions from some of my favorite artists, including some folks that you may have heard on this podcast, like Iron and Wine, Kevin Morby, Vagabon, Fenlily, and the producer Phil Wine Rope. I'm going to be on tour playing in cities across the U.S. starting in April, and I'm trying to bring the spirit of the podcast with me.

So every show that I'm playing will begin with a conversation about the album with a different amazing guest moderator in each city, like Adam Scott, Samin Nasrat, Jason Manzuchas, Josh Molina, Minjin Lee, Ken Jennings, John Roderick, Austin Cleon, and more. They're all going to be my conversation partners on stage, and then I'll play with my band. The album is called In the Last Hour of Light, and the first couple songs are out now.

You can listen to the music and get tickets for the shows on my website, Rishikash.co. Or just go to songexploder.net slash live. That's songexploder.net slash live. Thanks. So Adam Grand Oseal jumped in and then we went out to LA and started working with them and it was, it was magic, you know? Yeah. I was sat in the house that was staying in more like staying up in the hills and it was amazing, like a bunch of Jolly boys in Hollywood. What the hell has happened? This is ridiculous, like in the beautiful sunshine. And I just sat with the guitar because I was like, I've got to get this song, so stout. I remember just sitting up on there looking over the hills and looking across the city and all of that. And I was just sat thinking about Annie and thinking

about, because she was an actor and she was like such a big movie buff, you know, obviously being in Hollywood where like every bloody movie's ever been made. I mean, so I sat there thinking about her and just thinking, God, she would love this. She would love being here with me. and we're driving down Hollywood Boulevard and there was just so many homeless people on the street and then it made us think of home because the homelessness is getting really bad back home so it was like bizarre

because then like the first half of that song is all talking about walking back from the care home watching people back there and then it was like suddenly I was like out in L.A. and I was doing the exact same thing, you know? And then these lines just came out of us you know, somebody's darlings on the street tonight that was inspired

because Billy Connolly was, He did this TV show. He found this grave in Scotland and it said, Somebody's sweetheart. In the village, it found this random person that had no idea

who this person was. And somebody says, well, it's somebody's sweetheart. And they buried the person as somebody's sweetheart, which I think so beautiful. It's like, no matter who you are,

where you go in the world, like, you're loved by somebody. And that's what I thought when I saw all these people on the streets. Like, I was like, that's somebody's darling, that's somebody's kid, you know?

I remembered that as I was writing a song. It took so long to get it right And then that was like this overwhelming joy and relief That we got this chorus that was good Such a great feeling Totally because we'd had that song Ages ages at this point

And we're kind of like We knew there was something so special within it And after that we just Straight to the studio Got Drew's drums down Oh he's so on it man Yeah dude I mean he's so on it

That I actually wondered If these were samples when I got the stems. No, no, that's Drew's playing. Adam was kind of like, hey, drill. Can you just do like a straight, just bouticata, bootie-kata, and he just rocked that.

We overdub some tom's, Bukaka, Bukaka, and then we started building from there. Did your ideas about that little riff change when you got to this stage of the song? Yeah, we wanted it to be a wurly, but then I remember it, like, it doesn't quite poke out

as much as we expected it to poke out. Yeah. So I'll double it and I'll do like a kind of Mark Nothla, Diasreste style picking pattern version of it. I love the tiny bend, which you obviously can't do on the Whirlitzer and so it makes them more distinct as well. Exactly. It sounds more like a band when there's like slightly different things happening.

We felt there was something missing in the high end and I wanted something that was going to come out and sort of mirror the melody. so we had to figure out what it was going to be and I remember Adam thinking about that Sin sound and he was like Yeah it's like dire straits Yeah he's like hey

Try this OB8 Get the OB8 We get it OB8 Yeah Literally we pressed like one sound And Sam was like oh my God This is the sound This is the sound

This is the sound We're just like get it on now Everybody on the treadmill It just adds It's a lush like part of the palette I think I keep saying palette because Adam, we stole some of his terminology

because he always kind of looks at it like he's painting. He's like, yeah, let's go paint. We wanted to do acoustics. And Adam was like, I want to get a bit more like a rhythm. And he was like, I think we should just do it together. So we set up a binaural head, Mike. We've seen them before. So I love them.

I mean, it's spooky, aren't they? Like, it's literally just like a human head on a stick. And the ears are the microphones. Yeah, and the ears of the microphones is nuts. So we used that quite a lot to try and get a bit of that sort of like in the room feel. Adam sat on one side of it and I sat on the other side and we both did the whole song, just one take, just jamming it out. Did it change the way that you played to have him playing it with music?

For me, it was like one of them, it was really special. What made it so special? Because he's like my hero, isn't he? Do I mean? It was like I was sat and I was thinking like, 10 years ago I was in hospital. I was like living with my mother. and me and my man were both unemployed, didn't have any money, black mould all over my bedroom wall. And when I was in hospital, the Lost in the Dream album, Adam's album, I've become obsessed with it.

And that's all I listened to during that whole time that I was recovering. And it really meant a lot to make that record. I used to listen to this album and dream about doing this as a job and being able to pay my bills. and now I'm in LA, sat with the guy who made that album, playing an acoustic track with them, but both doing it at the same time, literally one of my biggest heroes. You couldn't write it.

Can you tell me about the horns that come in later? Oh, my... The rifts. So the riff tones were basically a combination of our brass players, which is Mark Webb and Johnny Blue Hat, and then the War on Drugs, Adam invited his mate John. And they came as a trio.

We started calling them the rip tones. John Natchez is on Barry, Mark Webb trumpet, Johnny Blue Hat on tennis. Tensack. The solo actually in the tune, which comes in the outro, that was done on Johnny's first day to L.A. Walked in Adam's studio. Jet lagged. He walked in and just ripped that in one. Insane. It's the highest note I think I've ever heard him hit on a tennis socks.

It was ridiculous. How was it recording your final vocals? for the song. So I get quite fearful in the studio in booths, like just singing. And I only really feel comfortable doing my vocals at home because I just feel a lot less stressed. You don't have that like, oh, my God, we're against the clock. So I've always kind of done my vocals either like in the flat or like, or in our place

back home. Oh, I stayed all night. till you left this life but that's just love how people watch on the way back home everybody on a treadmill running Who's singing backing vocals there? That's Brooke, the newest member of our band

Under the Billboard's Out of the Street tonight So me and Brooke have been friends since we're like 17 And the first time I ever heard I sing She was doing a cover of Dancing in the Dark By Bruce Springsteen and my jaw was on the floor. I was like, that's how you sing. I actually started trying to emulate her vibrato

as we grew up together, which made me a better singer. Like, I kind of learned how to sing through Brooke, really. How do you think it affected the song to have her voice in there on those courses as well? It's like singing with a family member or something, you know what I mean? It's like, we have that.

Is it telepathy? Yeah. I can sing anything and she'll just find a harmony immediately, you know. Oh, I can't stop running. I see the whole down for Happy people watch on a way back home

and then the middle eight didn't come until that was a bit later, wasn't it? After that, yeah. I didn't have the lyrics for it and I was like, but I knew I wanted to round it off and make it about Annie and just kind of like a final gesture of love to Annie.

The rain-soaked Garden of Remembrance, Katie wakes at your initials in the sky. I was like, I can hear strings in this section. So what I normally do is I'll sing the parts, and then I'll send it to Rosie Danvers. It's just string arrangement. She's done everybody, like, she's the best. This was in Abbey Road.

Yeah. Studio 2. How big of an orchestra is playing that? 30. Wow. It was going through the same compressors used by the B. feels. Oh, I fear for this crippled island and the turmoil of the times.

Oh, people watch on a way back home... The first half of that song is like, I'm down in the doldrums. I wasn't in the doldrums. good way at the time. I was definitely drinking too much. It was just, it was loss, you know what I mean? Grief hits you in so many different ways. And I think I was like kind of focusing more on the loss as opposed to focusing on the, on the beauty, the beautiful impact you had on me in my life. I think that's where the song flips, being grateful. That's the end result of grief a lot of the time as just being so grateful.

And it's that really painful love that you'll always carry with you, no matter how long I live for. You know, I'm always going to remember, aren't he? Do you feel like you have responded to Annie's request about you shouting her out in your speeches? Yeah, well, that was the thinking, I think, you know, wherever she is now, she'll be, like, kicking her heels. So you're like, why didn't you do it when I was there?

You know what I mean? But yeah, I think she would. would have liked it. I think she would have liked the tune. I don't know what I believe in, but I hope she can hear it wherever she is, you know. And now here's people watching by Sam Fender in its entirety. Visit songexploder.net to learn more. You'll find links to buy or stream people watching, and you can watch the music video. You might also enjoy the episode with The War on Drugs featuring Adam Grandesiel who co-produced this song. There's a link to that in the show notes too. This episode was produced by me, Craig Ely, Mary Dolan, and Kathleen Smith.

with production assistance from Tiger Biscop. The episode artwork is by Carlos Lerma, and I made the show's theme music and logo. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts. You can learn more about our shows at Radiotopia.fm. If you'd like to hear more for me about what I'm watching and listening to and thinking about,

you can subscribe to my newsletter, which you can find on the Song Exploder website. You can also get a Song Exploder shirt at SongExploder.net slash shirt. I'm Rishi Kesh Hereway. Thanks for listening.