Song Exploder - Seal - Kiss from a Rose

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

Seal is a multi-Grammy-winning singer and songwriter from England. His song “Kiss from a Rose” was first released in 1994, on his second album. It was a huge hit, thanks in part to being featured in the movie Batman Forever. It landed on the top ten charts in multiple countries, and eventually went quadruple platinum in the US. At the 1996 Grammys, it won Song of the Year, Record of the Year, and Best Male Pop Vocal Performance. But "Kiss from a Rose" becoming a hit was not a foregone conclusion. Seal almost didn’t record it. And when it was first released, it didn’t make much of a splash. But for this episode, the 250th episode of Song Exploder, Seal and his longtime collaborator, producer Trevor Horn, told me the story of what it took to bring "Kiss from a Rose" to life. For more, visit songexploder.net/seal.

You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs, and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi-Kesh Hirwe. Seal is a Grammy-winning singer and songwriter from England. His song, Kiss from a Rose, was first released in 1994 on his second album. It was a huge hit, thanks in part to being featured in the movie Batman Forever. It landed on the top ten charts in multiple countries and eventually went quadruple platinum in the U.S. And at the 1996 Grammys, it won Song of the Year, record of the year, and best male pop vocal performance. But Kiss From a Rose becoming a hit wasn't a foregone conclusion.

Seale almost didn't record it. And when it was first released, it didn't make much of a splash. But for this episode, the 250th episode of Song Exploder, Seal and his longtime collaborator, producer Trevor Horn, told me the story of what it took to bring Kiss from a Rose to life. My name is Seal and I'm a recording artist. I wrote Kiss for Morose around, it would have been 86, 87. I was living in a squat. I didn't have any money and I was just basically getting my act together, trying to figure out who I was musically.

And Kiss for Marose came out of that period. When you sort of do things, not for any other purpose, and because that's what's coming out of you. I had no experience in the studio, in a proper recording studio at that point, and so I didn't know the rules. And it started out as a bit of an experiment because I just got this piece of recording apparatus

called a four-track, and I was trying to figure out how to use it. I couldn't play an instrument at the time, but I tried to imagine what an orchestra would do and came up with these parts. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And da-da-da-da-ba-pap-pap-da-da-da. So I was essentially trying to mimic a flute,

pitticato violins, and a few other instruments, essentially an orchestra. And so I ended up recording about 16 or 17 tracks of vocals trying to figure out how to work this machine. and everything was impulsive and instinctive. And at the end of the day doing it, I had this thing called Kiss from a Rose. But I remember kind of listening to the tape

and kind of tossed the tape to one side because I wasn't particularly proud of it. Later on, we'd had some success with a song called Killer. That was quite popular. Killer is a song by the English DJ, Adela, that featured SEAL on guest vocals. It came out in 1990 and was a number one hit in the UK.

And so I'd been to see a few different record companies. I remember walking into ZTT records. And as I was walking through the corridors, I was looking at all of the plaques on the wall and there were bands like propaganda, Frankie goes to Hollywood, Grace Jones' slave to the rhythm. And I remember looking at all of the...

these records and going, oh, I like that record. Oh, yeah, I really like that record. Oh, and it was only then that I made the connection that Trevor Horn had produced all of these. My name is Trevor Horn and I'm an old record producer. My late wife was Jill Sinclair. At the time, Jill and I were kind of like a team. Jill was my wife, but she was also our manager. and we started a record label together, which was ZTT. Before I actually met Seale, she said, I've found him. I've found what I've been looking for. I remember the first meeting very clearly, as if it were yesterday,

Jill looked at me and she said, I'll never forget this. She said, right, young man, let me tell you why this is your home. And I walked out of there, and I remember telling my man, at the time, that that's where I wanted to be. And so Trevor and I eventually got together and my life changed. I remember this friend of mine would always tell, Trevor said, you know, Seale's got this rose song, you should get him to play it to you. And Trevor would keep saying to me, what's this song that Paul keeps going on about this rose

song? And I'd be, ah, no, don't worry about it, you know. And I just passed it off as being nothing. You said it was sort of Elizabethan. Yeah, that was it. And I remember being quite entreat. but we never got round to it on the first record. And then when we got the second record, I remember saying to you,

yeah, what about that Elizabethan thing? And what did you think when he first showed it to you? I loved it. You're kidding. I thought, it's so rare you hear something that's in 3-4, you know, or 6-8, whichever time signature. I love the... I mean, what's not to love about that? We record it at Psalm Studios, Sam West in London.

I didn't quite know how to do the song, but then I thought probably the best thing is keep it straight rather than trying to get clever with any techno stuff on it. We had a seven-piece band, Chris Bruce played guitar, Jamie Mohobrat played keyboards, a guy called Amp Fiddler also played keyboards initially. He had Harvey Mason on drums.

An English guy on bass called Charlie Drayton. It has these amazing dynamic, bits in it. The band would get loud and then stop, you know, that's one of the things you get from playing it sort of live and feeling it. There was so much a man can tell you so much he can say my pie. I liked singing with the band, but I really liked the focus sessions that Trevor and I used to have in the studio, because that's where I learned my trade, really. Ooh, the more I get a feudal stranger it feels, yeah. And now that your roses in bloom, a light hits the gloom on the gray. At one point, I used to live literally across the road in Trevor's basement flat.

And I would walk into the studio at sometimes 3 o'clock in the morning, sometimes, you know, 1 o'clock in the afternoon. at all these different times. And there was always a mic ready. There was always a setup ready. There was always an engineer available whether Trevor was there or not. Because Trevor once told me,

look, everything else I can control and I can make it work, whether it's orchestras, whether it's other musicians. The one thing I can't control is your vocal. But did you know that when it snows, my eyes become a large, and the light that you shine can't be seen. Sometimes you were with friends, very nice friends.

And I would say to you, hey, you see, what are you, do a vocal. And I'd sing better. Trevor's being tactful. I'd generally walk in with some gorgeous lady. And Trevor understood, you know, if I had an audience to perform in front of, I sang differently. Yeah. So he encouraged me to get the vocal.

because it's a tricky song, Kiss for Root. It's not for the faint at heart. In the verses, it's low and exposed, and it's harder to sing the low parts when you're nervous than it is the high parts. Baby, to me, you're like a grown addiction that I can deny. Won't you tell me, is that healthy, baby? I don't recollect you having any problem singing it,

but we put in little 3-8 bar to give you a, breath after one line. Because it used to go, There used to be a grain tower alone on the sea. You remain. It used to go like that. But then Trevor put in a little turnaround that would give me time to catch my breath. There used to be a grain tower alone on the sea.

You became the light on the dark side of me. That little thing is so important to the overall performance. Love remains a drug that's the higher not the pill. But did you know that when it snows, my eyes become a large and the light that you shine can't be seen. Trevor used to stress the importance of a middle eight. You started going, I've been kissed for a rose. I've been kissed by a rose on the grey.

What I said, I could make that a middle eight. We'd take it down a tone. And then we'll go back up again for the end of the song. And it worked great. Trevor was always big on orchestras. Yeah, I liked orchestras. Betty Cook, who was a really great writer, and she came in, and we were working on Kiss Moreau's.

And she's a great keyboard player, and she went, God, I love this song. And then she left, and then she came running back five minutes late and said, I've got an idea for a string part on this. Can I show you what it is? I had a, you know, I had a keyboard there, and she was playing MIDI strings, and I just recorded the MIDI strings into a computer.

And then when we got the strings, I think there's only 30 strings. It's not like a 60-piece orchestra, but they're all the best players. When you have an orchestra that can do that, move organically. God, that is a very, very unique type of luxury for a singer. There is so much a man can tell you so much you can say. My power, my pleasure, my pain. Seals always like French horn.

It's a beautiful instrument. Obo is a beautiful instrument too. Trevor used to get me to sing each part, the harmonies, eight times. And in those days, we didn't, you know, there was no auto tune. So Trevor got me to sing that harmony in terms of tightness and pitch. He would get me to sing it eight times until I got one that was part of. right? And he'd go, okay, great, now track to that.

I've been kissed from a rose on the great. Ooh, the stranger it feels, yeah. You don't meet many people who can knock off harmonies who've got two octaves and can sing soft and hard and can remember how they phrase something, you know, it does take a certain talent to do it. And Seal was just really good at it. And, you know, the payoff is when you come into the studio and you split them left or right and you put them all up together.

And then you just hear this beautiful, lush sound. And now that your roses in bloom, a light hits the gloom on the gray. Kiss from a Rose was, it was the fourth single released from the second album. It didn't easily slot into any genre. It went in the charts around 60, dropped to 80 something the next week, and it was out. DJs barely played it. No one really understood it, I guess, and no one heard it.

But what happened was Seals started to be managed by a guy called Bob Cavallo. And Bob was really good friends with Joe Schumacher, who had just directed the Batman movie. Joel Schumacher, God bless him, it didn't fit in the love scene that he was trying to put the song in. But he loved the song so much, he just stuck it on the end credits. And so when people went to go and see the movie, the last thing they heard when they were leaving the theatre was, Baby! And then Joel got me down to the studio lot where they shot a lot of the movie and stuck me in front of the bat light. and he intercut it with scenes from the movie.

And so once we got our foot in the door with this juggernaut of a movie and this great video on MTV, then it had the legs, then it had the staying power. That was what was so funny about it in the end because, you know, in the end, when we got Grammy for single of the year, it had been played on every kind of station.

It was always a great record. The only different is that people got to hear it. There's a lot of luck involved. One could argue that you create that luck, but whatever. Nonetheless, you do need that win-for. You do need that bit of luck. And Joel Schumacher and Bob Cavallo had the foresight to find a way to get that song heard. It was broke.

I was struggling to be heard. But then when I met Trevor, I found the one guy who not only heard, who not only heard me, but knew exactly what to do with my voice. I can't emphasize enough the importance of finding that one person who sees you and hears you and who gets you. I think it's a good song, but I think it's a great record. And that's not to do with me. That's to do with Trevor and the people that put that record together. As an artist and producer, if you're lucky you get one, life-defining song in your career.

If you're lucky, you get one. And Kiss from a Rose was mine. And now here's Kiss from a Rose by Seal in its entirety. Won't you tell me is that healthy big and it snows. My eyes with you shine can't be sealed on the grave. Or won't you tell me is a healthy baby? But did you know that when it snows, my eyes become a large and the light that you shine can't be seen?

Or visit songexploader.net. You'll find links to buy or stream Kiss from a Rose. And you can watch the music video that features Seal singing in front of the VAT signal. I have a new album of my own coming out on April 24th. It's been about 15 years since I last put out a full length, and this is the first one that'll be out under my own name, Rishikesh Her Way. I started making Song Exploder when I was feeling lost in my own music career. And then for over a decade, I've gotten to have these incredible conversations

about the process of making music, talking to other artists, and it made me completely rethink my relationship to music and my way of writing songs. And this album is the product of all of that. It features contributions from some of my favorite artists including some folks that you may have heard on this podcast, like Iron and Wine, Kevin Morby, Vagabon, Fenlily, and the producer Phil Wine Roeb. I'm going to be on tour playing in cities across the U.S. starting in April,

and I'm trying to bring the spirit of the podcast with me. So every show that I'm playing will begin with a conversation about the album with a different amazing guest moderator in each city, like Adam Scott, Samin Nasrat, Jason Manzukas, Josh Molina, Minjin Lee, Ken Jennings, John Roderick, Austin Cleon, and more. They're all going to be my conversation partners on stage, and then I'll play with my band. The album is called In the Last Hour of Light, and the first couple songs are out now. You can listen to the music and get tickets for the shows on my website, rishikash.co.

Or just go to songexploder.net slash live. That's songexploder.net slash live. Thanks. This episode of Song Exploder was made by me, Craig Ely, Kathleen Smith, and Mary Doyle. The episode artwork is by Carlos Larma, and I made the show's theme music and logo. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts. You can learn more about our shows at Radiotopia.fm. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Rishi Hereway, and you can follow the show at Song Exploder. You can also get a Song Exploder t-shirt at SongExploder.net slash shirt. I'm Rishi Kesh Hareway. Thanks for listening.