Song Exploder - Sparks - This Town Ain't Big Enough for Both of Us

Episode Date: June 16, 2021

Sparks are the brothers Ron and Russell Mael, a legendary duo from Los Angeles. Over the last 50 years, they’ve released 25 albums. They’ve collaborated with Giorgio Moroder and Franz Ferdinand, and they’ve influenced bands like Joy Division, Faith No More, Björk, and countless others. Director Edgar Wright, whose films include Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, Baby Driver, and Scott Pilgrim vs the World, has made a documentary about the band called The Sparks Brothers. It premiered at Sundance, and comes out in theaters on Friday, June 18th. In this episode, Ron and Russell break down their hit, “This Town Ain’t Big Enough for Both of Us," which came out in 1974, and changed their careers forever. To learn more, visit songexploder.net/sparks Radiotopia's annual fundraiser is going on right now! To support Song Exploder and the mission of independent, creative story-telling through creator-owned shows, please donate at radiotopia.fm/donate.

You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs, and piece by piece, tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirwe. We're big cinema buffs, so I think we've always had this kind of rationale that in making pop songs, you're able to make the most elaborate movie in your own mind in a three-minute song. That's Russell Mail. He and his brother Ron Mail are the legendary duo Sparks from Los Angeles. Over the last 50 years, they've released 25 albums. They've collaborated with Giorgio Moroder and Franz Ferdinand and influenced bands like Joy Division, Faith No More, Bjork, and countless others. There's a new documentary about them called The Sparks Brothers, made by one of my favorite

directors, Edgar Wright. His films include Sean of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, Baby Driver, and Scott Pilgrim versus the World. The new documentary premiered at Sundance this year and comes out in theaters this Friday, June 18th. Here's what Edgar Wright says in the intro of the film. Sparks. How did this glam rock anomaly become a band with a career spanning five decades? How can Ron and Russell Mail be successful, underrated, hugely influential, and overlooked

all at the same time? And where does one even start with 25 studio albums and nearly 500 songs? We're going to start with just one song. For this episode, Ron and Russell break down one of their hits. This town ain't big enough for both of us, which came out in 1974 and changed their career forever. The original tracks from their recording are long gone, but they re-recorded the song a while ago, and for the purposes of this discussion, you'll hear those isolated tracks. And in the end, you'll hear the original 1974 recording.

I'm Russell Mail from Sparks. And this is Ron Mail from Sparks. We moved to England in 1973, but we had had two albums. out in the States previously, but they sold in a very slow fashion. We had played one show in the UK with the band that we had at the time, and Island Records really liked the songwriting, and they really liked the singing, and thought if we assembled British musicians around us, that there was something there that they could push. So Russell and I I just moved to England, and there were no songs.

So over a period of about six months, I was writing, and one of the songs that came up was this town ain't big enough for the both of us. Ron had played me the song just on this upright piano, and I thought it was really striking. It sounded very classical, like a classical melody. There weren't any lyrics for it at the time. We almost always have the music first and then add lyrics later just because we don't want the music structure to be restricted by kind of a very formal blocking out of the lyrics.

We were trying to figure out something because the song was kind of cinematic in a way. So the Western cliche, this tiny big enough for the both of us, I don't know, it just kind of came. to mine. Sometimes there might be an initial lyric that he writes that I think maybe didn't match the tone of the melody. And so I'll kindly request, like I'm a movie studio. We're going to need a rewrite on that, sir. I get notes. But for this town, because the song is so unorthodox, that lyric, I don't even know if I was able to judge whether that's a good, good lyric or a bad lyric, but it was such an interesting lyric, but then I was going, how am I going to sing that? It's a tiny big enough for the both of us.

You know, it's a pretty big mouthful. It's sounding big enough for the both of us. And that melody that he played on the right hand was exactly the melody that I sang. So there's some vocal acrobatics to be able to have to sing that song. Daily, except for Sunday, you dive into the cafe where you meet. each day hot, astrotty cannibalose, oh, the view, they need their protein just like you do. This is how they pick enough for both of us.

A lot of it's really high, the singing. At that time, we didn't even consider things like transposing songs to a key that's more suitable for a singer. We just said, well, that's the key. He wrote it in, so you got to sing it in that key. And I think that helped to kind of dictate the style of the singing for that song, via the melody that Ron had written. You know that this sound isn't big enough,

not big enough for both of us. This town isn't big enough, not big enough for both of us, I ain't. We wanted to have the lyrics done when we were actually rehearsing with the band because it changes the character of the song. So we gathered together a group of British musicians

through various ads. And we went into the studio first with the band. and arrange the song. The guitar player was Adrian Fisher. The drummer was Dinky Diamond. The bass player was Martin Gordon. We wanted to be a rock song, even if the melody is kind of classically tinged.

It was really difficult for them because I didn't ever really think that when I was writing it. I had no consideration for either vocalists, or guitarist or anybody else, I just was writing. The melody that the right hand of Ron on the keyboard, that that line became adopted by the guitar player. The song is so strict that what they could do was limited,

but they did an incredible job. Time is she a new time, the mamas are your favorite time when you want her tonight. Harbeat in Christ and beating rhinos, elephants and techie tigers Is town they pick enough for the both of us Each of the separate verses is kind of a little vignette And a moment of passion and hope for a guy And then it kind of escalates into this overly dramatic situation

Where what began is just shyness or something in the encounter becomes something magnified to a cinematic area with the lyrics, like just going to the zoo and then it becomes something much more dramatic, and that kind of thing happens in each of the verses. Flying, domestic flying, and when the stewardesses near, do not show any fear. Heartbeat, increase in heartbeat, you are a khaki, koolit, my dear, it's Hiroshima that you're nearing, I think it's just the leap from the every day

into kind of like a hyper-emotional cinematic area and especially with regard to a romantic situation. Flying, domestic flying, and when the stewardess is near, do not show any fear, heartbeat, increasing heartbeat, you are a khaki-colored badmodyear. It's Hiroshima that you're nearing. The protagonist of the song is on just some simple flight, and he has some kind of fantasy about the stewardess,

and then in his own mind it kind of becomes him being a pilot at the moment of the bombing in World War II. I've written lyrics in the past where at the moment they seem appropriate, and nowadays I just wonder what got into me at the moment. the time. Heartbeat, increasing heartbeat, the rain is boring on the forefront on the bullets cannot catch you down. It's sounding big enough for the both of us. There was a time where we were actually considering having a different cliched movie tagline at the end of each one, but we decided to go play it safe. And so it was this sounding big enough for the both of us

every single time. And there was one other controversial decision-making moment, which sounds really trivial, but the gunshot in the song, it was whether adding a gunshot is really tacky or whether that's kind of cool. And so we decided, well, it might be a little tacky, but it is kind of cool.

But it was finding one that didn't sound like a bad sound effect. We had access to the BBC. sound library, which is unbelievable. And so they found a gunshot that was the perfect one for the song. The decision of whether something is tacky in a bad way or cool, usually just because of our nature, if it's debating whether it should be in or shouldn't be in, we decide to go with it in and we'll take the consequences. We were so happy that we had Muff Winwood produce that song

because Muff was the bass player of the Spencer Davis group with his illustrious brother Stevie Winwood. So for us being anglophiles, this was a dream come true to be working with Muff Winwood. And so Muff came to the studio and we played him a lot of the material that we had, But he was particularly struck by this song. And we always kind of thought of it as being too weird for a featured song on the album.

But he wanted to be bold about the whole thing. And so the weird song is the single. And we got on top of the pops after that. And the song became a big hit. So after having two albums that did nothing in the U.S., our dream of becoming a UK band was actually fulfilling. primarily through that one song at the time. We didn't realize, I don't think,

what that ultimately would mean that the reaction would be so intense. So it was a real shock, but an amazingly happy shock. You kind of think back, what would have happened if this hadn't happened? It's like, wouldn't be an Edgar Wright documentary. You know, it's like unbelievable.

You kind of can't go back and think about those ways. And think about those what-ifs, it's just the way it turned out was incredibly fortunate. And now, here's This Town Ain't Big Enough for Both of Us by Sparks in its entirety. Visit SongExploder.net slash Sparks to learn more. You'll find links to buy or stream this town ain't big enough for both of us, and you can watch the trailer for the new documentary, The Sparks Brothers. Special thanks on this episode to Edgar Wright and Nera Park. I have a new album of my own coming out on April 24th.

It's been about 15 years since I last put out a full length, and this is the first one that'll be out under my own name, Rishikesh Her Way. I started making Song Exploder when I was feeling lost in my own music career. And then for over a decade, I've gotten to have these incredible conversations about the process of making music, talking to other artists, and it made me completely rethink my relationship to music and my way of writing songs. And this album is the product of all of that. It features contributions from some of my favorite artists

including some folks that you may have heard on this podcast, like Iron and Wine, Kevin Morby, Vagabon, Fenlily, and the producer Phil Wine Rope. I'm going to be on tour playing in cities across the U.S. starting in April, and I'm trying to bring the spirit of the podcast with me. So every show that I'm playing will begin with a conversation about the album with a different amazing guest moderator in each city, like Adam Scott, Samin Nasrat, Jason Manzukas, Josh Molina, Minjin Lee, Ken Jennings, John Roderick, Austin Cleon, and more.

They're all going to be my conversation partners on stage, and then I'll play with my band. The album is called In the Last Hour of Light, and the first couple songs are out now. You can listen to the music and get tickets for the shows on my website, rishikash.co, or just go to songexploder.net slash live. That's songexploder.net slash live. Thanks.

This episode was made by me, with editing help from T-O-Extloder. Keene Lieberson and Casey Deal, artwork by Carlos Lerma and music clearance by Kathleen Smith. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts. You can learn more about our shows at Radiotopia.fm. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Rishi Hereway, and you can follow the show at SongExploder. You can also get a Song Exploder t-shirt at SongExploder.net slash shirt. I'm Rishi Kesh Hereway. Thanks for listening.