Song Exploder - Thundercat - Them Changes

Episode Date: July 30, 2015

Thundercat is the alter-ego of bassist and singer-songwriter Stephen Bruner. He’s played bass for both Suicidal Tendencies and Erykah Badu and went on to help shape Kendrick Lamar's 'To Pimp a Butterfly.' In this episode, Thundercat will break down the song "Them Changes" off his new mini-album. Thundercat co-produced the track with long-time collaborator Flying Lotus, with Kamasi Washington on saxophone. This episode is sponsored by Hover, Lagunitas Brewing Company, and Simple.

You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs, and piece by piece, tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishi Kesh Hirwe. There's this moment where you realize, I'm making a funk song? You know, like, yeah, you are. I was like, oh, really? You just go, like, 100% into that. Thundercat is the alter ego of bassist and singer-songwriter Stephen Bruner. He's played bass for both suicidal tendencies and Erica Badu, and helped shape Kendrick Lamar's chart-top

critically acclaimed album to Pimp a Butterfly. In this episode, Thundercat breaks down his song, Bem Changes. He co-produced it with longtime collaborator Flying Lotus with Kamasi Washington on saxophone. I am a Stephen Thundercat Bruner. I started playing bass around the age of four or five or so. You know, every time I go back and look at different pictures and stuff like that, I always had like a guitar like toy, you know, when I couldn't talk. I actually started writing in my early teens.

A lot of the time music starts with the drums for me. This song, I remember, it started with a drum sample from the Isley brothers, you know, footsteps in the dark. It's one of the most amazing songs, period, you know. But in my generation, we grew up with today was a good day, so it's like, of course I would hear that more often, you know. cubes is so juxtaposed to theirs. I know it's a classic thing, you know. It's like, it's always like that weird feeling of like, oh God, here we go, sampling, you know.

Something that people have used before, but, you know, it's like, I'm not going to not explore the options of what it has to offer me. You know, because you could feel that drum, when those drums start, it's like they're real heavy. I just started the drums and it felt right. That's just me courting on the bass. I play a six-string bass to write with a lot.

I have to because there's no way I'd be able to play a lot the parts on a four or five string because some of the chords are really thick like playing 13s or like playing my bass with my hands really spread out it was a custom instrument it's got a maple neck and a maple body so it's like this really bright tone that's the sound that people usually prefer to record with me you know like even lotus like anytime i start playing another base he goes maybe you should get the other base starting with the chords and then following through just the bass line that goes with it it's the same bass it's going through a mowgur Fogger envelope filter. Those moga fogers are like pretty intense for pedals. You know, it's like the amount of things you can do with them. It's like it's like you're playing a synth. There's so many knobs. You know, you've got to learn how to use them. These things are really valuable for a reason. They're like the BMW of pedals. These mowgurgurgers have inspired different things in my playing. People have lots of nicknames for flying Lotus, but I mean me person, I call him Lotus. And I mean, me and him have worked

together throughout the years, it's always been like pushing each other's limits. He told me I need to sing more. And he's like, you gotta be kidding me. I sound like I'm farting on a mic and he's like, nah man, you gotta sing. Nobody move, there's blood on the floor and I can't find my heart. The first part of the lyrics that came about was the first verse. I'm not like masking like some weird spiritual truth with it. It's like, no, I just, I broke with my girlfriend and I drink a lot.

When I'm sitting here, knowing this ain't real. Ain't real. What I give my heart to you. Breaking up your girlfriend has strange effects on you. It's like, let me get drunk and that'll help it. And it's like totally doesn't help it at all. You don't have to put your whole business out there. If you don't want to tell anybody anything, that's your business.

But that's what makes it mine. You know, if you expect it to be worth anything to you even, you know, it's like you have to be telling the truth. It has to be the truth. Lotus takes part in this halfway through it, I would say. Even though there's a lot of work that's been done with bass, we both know it's like at some point he's going to touch the music. He'll see different sprinkles or different synth sounds. And he kind of bends and stretches the whole thing, you know, to different capacities. Maybe you should breathe through this.

Maybe you shouldn't bring this straight in like this. Maybe you should shut up and let the beats play for a second and add small nuances, you know. It was definitely Lotus's idea to put Kamasi on it. Sax was Kamasi Washington. Hi, it's Kamasi Washington. I was just trying to create a part that was kind of like a counterpoint to what Stephen machine, you know, he had that whole choral thing he was doing. He has his own sensibility that you allow him to get to.

There's no like, Kamasi, you should do this. It's like, I've been playing with Kamasi. I literally, like, there's a picture of Kumasi hold me when I was a baby. So it's like, knowing that what he's going to play is going to be the right thing. You know, it's like, trust. What, like, take a solo? That's exactly what it's like, yeah, that's exactly what it meant. We're crazy at the end as it was fading out to kind of give it that kind of objective position.

Fading it up while it was fading down, you know? I was like, that's amazing. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. The keys were recorded in my apartment with the person that I tour a lot with named Dennis Hamm. Dennis is a lot. amazing. And I was like, think of that kind of rag time. Like, you're playing around me singing. You're not just comping like it's a jazz song. And you're like, you know, so it's like, even rhythmically, you have to find a place that's not where my voice is. It didn't take too

long because like Dennis, like, process this stuff really fast and just destroyed it. And he wanted to, he wanted to do like 10 takes. And I was like, I was like, I was like, you killed it the first time, man. I was like, there's no point. It's like, wait, let me try another. And I was like, nope. That's one take of Dennis just, and it's just like, when I lost my mind Deep in the cup drowning Somebody help

Because I can't find my way Nobody move Nobody move Now here's Them Changes By Thundercat In its entirety A new album of my own Coming out on April 24th

It's been about 15 years since I last put out a full length And this is the first one That'll be out under my own name Rishi Kesh Her Way I started making Song Exploder when I was feeling lost in my own music career. And then for over a decade,

I've gotten to have these incredible conversations about the process of making music, talking to other artists, and it made me completely rethink my relationship to music and my way of writing songs. And this album is the product of all of that. It features contributions from some of my favorite artists, including some folks that you may have heard on this podcast,

like Iron and Wine, Kevin Morby, Vagabon, Fenlily, and the producer Phil Weinrobe. I'm going to be on tour playing in cities across the U.S. starting in April, and I'm trying to bring the spirit of the podcast with me. So every show that I'm playing will begin with a conversation about the album with a different amazing guest moderator in each city. Like Adam Scott, Samin Nasrat, Jason Manzukas, Josh Molina, Minjin Lee, Ken Jennings, John Roderick, Austin Cleon, and more. They're all going to be my conversation partners on stage, and then I'll play with my band. The album is called In the Last Hour of Light, and the first couple songs are out now. You can listen to the music and get tickets for the shows on my website, rishikash.co.

Or just go to songexploder.net slash live. That's songexploder.net slash live. Thanks. You can find all the past and future episodes of SongExploder at songexploder.net or on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you download podcasts. Find the show on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at Song Exploder. Next time on Song Exploder, Unknown Mortal Orchestra. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX,

a curated network of extraordinary, story-driven shows. Learn more at Radiotopia.fm. My name is Rishi Keish Heerwe. Thanks for listening.