Soul Boom - Bryan Cranston (Part 1): Breaking Open a Character

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Actor Bryan Cranston (Your Honor, Breaking Bad) and Rainn Wilson dive deep into what it takes to build a character. They explore the morality of Breaking Bad's Walter White, exploring the fine line between ambition and ethical compromise. With insights from both the small screen and personal life, Cranston reflects on his iconic role and what it reveals about human nature. Rainn and Bryan reflect on the impact their iconic characters, Dwight Schrute and Walter White, made on television history. The two also share their perspectives on forever being first known for the roles they played. Thank you to our sponsors! Pique Tea (15% OFF!): https://piquelife.com/SOUL HOKA: https://bit.ly/HokaSoulBoom Waking Up app (1st month FREE!): https://wakingup.com/soulboom Fetzer Institute: https://fetzer.org/ Sign up for our newsletter! https://soulboom.substack.com SUBSCRIBE to Soul Boom!! https://bit.ly/Subscribe2SoulBoom Watch our Clips: https://bit.ly/SoulBoomCLIPS Watch WISDOM DUMP: https://bit.ly/WISDOMDUMP Follow us! Instagram: http://instagram.com/soulboom TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@soulboom Sponsor Soul Boom: [e-mail] Work with Soul Boom: [e-mail] Send Fan Creations, Questions, Comments: [e-mail] Produced by: Kartik Chainani Executive Produced by: Ford Bowers, Samah Tokmachi Spring Green Films Production Supervisor: Mike O'Brien Voicing Change Media Theme Music by: Marcos Moscat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, Soul Boom Generation, I've got a really exciting announcement for you. We've got a Substack. If you love the Soul Boom podcast and book and ideas, then you're going to want to get our weekly newsletter Substack sent to your inbox. It's magnificent. There's going to be fantastic guest authors. Some are written by me. A lot of them delve into the ideas around the podcasts that we're doing that week.

So sign up. Please subscribe. Go to Soulboom.com. Thank you. You're listening to So, Boo. I always say, like, Breaking Bad wasn't a story that promulgated drug use or drug dealing. It was a story of bad decision making. It was the story of broken character.

At the moment that he needed that moral support, it failed. And he said, I don't have the luxury of being able to be generous at this time. And what happened then once people realize, I don't blame him, I don't blame him. Oh, no, he's starting to hurt people. Well, you're on that spiral. Rob a bank, make crystal meth. You're trying to become someone you are not. And by doing so, you are creating situations that would not have occurred in the natural universe for yourself.

And you are out of your element. Hey there. It's me, Rain Wilson. And I want to dig into the human experience. I want to have conversations about a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep with our favorite thinkers, friends, and entertainers about life, meaning, and idiocy. Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast. I thought that we would start with an act off.

So I have a little scene, and I think both of us are going to act this scene, and we're going to let the viewers decide who is the better actor. Oh, you ready? Yeah, sure. Okay, so here's the scenario. We're a baker. Okay. We're both a baker. Yeah, we're not, we're not acting together.

This is going to be... We're a baker. We're one baker when we're together. We're both playing the same role separately. It's a monologue. So the character is a baker. Okay. What should his name be?

Otto. Otto. Okay. We're both playing a baker named Otto. And what we're doing in the scene is we're pulling out a baguette from an oven that laced with poison because we're going to feed the baguette to our wife and kill her because she's been suffering with the cancer for a very long time. And kind of like Walter White, we're making a very questionable, dubious moral choice to end her life. And the lines are,

there it is, Viva La France and the bread of life. Those are the three lines. There it is. Viva la France and the bread of life. And at one point, we consider eating the loaf ourselves. So do you want me to go first? You want to go first? I don't care. You're the host. You decide.

Well, I can't decide. Can we flip a coin? Do you have a coin? Yeah. Call it. Heads. Damn. Heds.

Okay. So there it is. Viva la France. the bread of life. So we're going to act. We're going to take this very seriously. We're going to do the very best acting we can do. Otto the baker pulling a poison from a bakery oven.

And we're going to say the lines, there it is. Vive la France, the bread of life. And at one point in time, we're going to consider eating the baguette ourselves. Okay? All right. Unseen. Here we go. Vive la France.

And seen. Wow. Top that. Cranston. That was... Those are the three lines in case I wrote them down in my scrawl right there.

Okay. Top that. Several things I noticed about... Okay. You want to talk about the performance first? Well, I don't know if we should. Maybe we should just go in. Why don't you do yours on one?

Then we can break it down and analyze it. Okay. You ready? Yes. There it is. Beaver Le France. The Bread of Life. Yeah.

Okay. I did a lot of miming. You don't have to do all that miming if you don't want. Whatever you want. Breed of Life. And seen. Damn it. What?

You thought I... It topped me, Cranston. That's better. It's just better. Oh, I don't know if it's better. Yeah, it's more nuanced. The miming was way better and way more specific. He had a curious accent, Otto.

I think that's good. I imagined he was Austrian. I don't know. Where did that... Well, he was born in Austria, but emigrated to France late in his life. So he had a combination of a... of a Germanic and a Franco accent. You did way more character history than I did.

Yeah. And yeah, there was more nuance. It was more like you took us on a journey. You were, you're a master storyteller. I first thought, I'm going to kill myself. Yeah. And then he thought, I got that. Yeah.

I totally got that. Yeah. This was a scene in which you were going to kill yourself with the bread. Yeah. Because you couldn't take it anymore. And then you were like, hey, wait a minute. Hey, wait a minute. Why kill myself?

I could just... I could just kill her. Yeah. It was really good. Yeah. All right. Well, mine was... It's good.

We see why in the lexicon of great television characters, Walter White, is truly like Zeus in the Pantheon. And Dwight is one of like one of the much more lesser gods. Like I wrote down Hephaestus, the god. of metalworking. Like Dwight is, you know what I mean? There's, because there's the pantheon of the big Greek gods. And then Dwight is a much, and we see from this that I'm at a much lower level. But I did want to ask you, here's, there's so much I want to ask you.

There's so much that we can talk about. But the number one thing, probably viewers are going, are like, hey, it's two television icons who played these really great and memorable roles. and I know for me that probably my epitaph on my tombstone is going to be like the guy who played Dwight, you know, when I'm... When I won't even put your name on it? I don't even think so. Oh my God.

The New York Times on the, you know, the... Just your picture and the guy who played Dwight is passed away. On the Oscars. At 117. When they show the little like, the memoriam thing, it'll be like, it'll be Dwight and everyone will be like, wait, that's a TV show. That's not even a film.

Can you show something from one of his films? I think they're saying the character died. No. The actual kind. But no matter, kind of, no matter what we do, and you've been far more successful at this with Oscar nominations for Trumbo and all of the great roles that you've played, like, we're kind of the guys to our deathbed that are going to be known for this one character that sticks in America's cultural memory.

Yeah. And how do you navigate that? I love it. Great. Do you? Tell me about that. I mean, well, I... No, I mostly love it.

I would say I 80% love it. Yeah. Sometimes when people call me Dwight, yeah. And they're like, hey, Dwight, can I get a... Oh, oh, Dwight, it's Dwight. Guys, it's Dwight. Hey, Dwight, Dwight.

It's like, it's a little bit like... Guys, Dwight is a fictional character on a TV show from 10, 11 years ago. Yeah, it's... So that's where it kind of gets like... Well, see, then you know that's how big the character became because it seems...

deep into their psyche so deep that they don't even know that your name is Stephen. So they have this problem, I don't know if it's a problem, but it's at least, you know, recognition of your previous word. It's Rain. I'm sorry? Rain. Okay. No, my name is Rain.

Oh. Good. Good. You directed me in an episode of the office. Yes. How was it? average sounds like an insult. Do you know what I mean?

And it is. So I don't want to say average. Okay. Above average even sounds like an insult. But if there was a little bit above average, what's a word? Capable? Capable. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I found you and you're acting extraordinary. Wow. Yeah. As Otto? Or? No, that was like extra ordinary.

But you as Dwight were extraordinary. What about the role that we played together? What about Jerry and Marge go large as Bill the store owner? Come on. Yeah. You had us going, man. Come on. That was some fun.

It was fun. We had a great time. That was great. No one saw that. That's a movie people see on airplanes. Yeah. And that's okay too. All right.

I don't. Peace with everything. I am, man. Tell me about this. And so tell me about your relationship with Walter White and going to your grave known as Walter White. Because I think it's not ever developing a sense of entitlement that any, that the life sure doesn't owe us anything. This business doesn't owe us anything.

And it's like you're just navigating your way through and hopefully you have opportunities. That's all we really want is opportunities to express ourselves in different ways. You make such a mark on a show as you did on the office. And then it's up to you to do a couple things. First of all, save your money so that you don't have to make a creative choice based on financial need. Right. The second thing is help the audience let Dwight die by not doing roles like Dwight. Sure.

You have to pivot hard, even when people go, oh, no, you'd be great. he's a he's kind of a rah, you know, and describing all the idiosyncratic things that Dwight was about. And you got to get, thank you so much. I'm not doing that. Thank you. I can't do that. Because then if you do, you're feeding that beast. Sure.

And then you just got to, you know, hang on. But it's like I tell young actors all the time when they say they want to be professional actors. Why are you talking to young actors all the time? That's feeling a little. Oh, is it? Yeah. You're just going around down to some of the local theaters down in North Hollywood and just like, oh, hey, kids. Well, I wait until their class is over.

Yeah, exactly. And then they start leaving. Hey, hey, hey, excuse me, excuse me. You pretend to get recognized like, you're like, oh, we just happened to be here. Oh, my gosh. Oh, young actors, listen. Sit down, settle down. Let me tell you.

I'll bend your ear. So you're always talking to young actors. No, I get, I. I get asked to go to colleges and high schools and things. Yeah. And just speak to them about, you know, what's it really like? And first of all, they'll say, hey, you want to do a master class? You want to teach?

I go, no, I don't want to teach. I let the teachers teach. But I don't mind going there to your college class, acting class, and telling those kids who are about to graduate. Yeah. life of a real working actor is like and what you need to be prepared for. Yeah. And that's what I think is worthwhile.

And I want to get into that a little bit because you have an amazing history. I would say far more amazing than me and the fact that I did like 10 years of theater before I did any TV and film. But then I did like three or four years of TV and film before Dwight. But you have like 20 years before even Malcolm in the middle of. of the most delicious guest spots on planet Earth, I really want to talk about. But let's go back to the Walter White thing.

So the industry doesn't owe you anything. You just try and get a good job and don't feel entitled. And what else allows you to be at peace with the fact that you're so well known for one of the great characters of all time? That you were so damn lucky to get it. And I can point out, and this is one of the things, I tell young actors is that you there's probably four things that you need to be able to become a

professional working actor and have a career and those are number one is talent and it's not to it's to say and I said to them I said I hope I if I were to ask all of you if you have talent I want all of you to be able to say yes not in a chest pounding look at me I've got but just in a self quiet confidence that you know you belong in this conversation. Can I say something to that? I would amend that and say one of the key things besides having talent is kind of knowing where your talent is, where it lies, and how you compare to other folks making a living. One of the things that I'm really grateful for my, I'm going to ring my own bell.

I'm going to to toot my own horn for a second. When I was starting out, I knew what I was good at and I knew what I wasn't good at. And I would watch people on a movie or a TV show or on the stage because I was mostly doing theater. And I would be like, wow, they're really good at improvising on stage or appearing naturalistic or having lines appear spontaneous or connecting with their emotions. Like, I don't have that skill set yet. Or I'm not as good at that as they are.

I really admire that actor for what they did there. And I find a lot of young actors aren't really able to. They feel like a belief in their own talent means that I'm just as good as them. I'm good as as as everyone and I can kind of do everything really, really well. Whereas for me, it's like even over the course of my professional career, I had to learn how to really breathe and be present. and listen. I had to learn how to allow emotions to get connected to lines that I was saying. Well, let me ask you then, when you were able to recognize, which is a great trait, to accurately place your value of where you are.

And assess my talent where it was at that point of time. Did it dissuade you from attempting those things that you were not good at? like if you said, oh, they're so spontaneous, they can think on their feet, I'm not there yet. Would you not accept auditions that put you in that position? You would do it. No, of course. In fact, I would lean into that.

Yeah. You know, I feel like what I would do is that I would get a role that would allow me, I would start to try and exercise those muscles to kind of like, hey, remember you saw that guy? I remember I was doing a Broadway show early on in my career, and I was really bad on it. I've told this story before, but I really sucked in this Broadway show.

And I read the reviews. They're still online, and they're pretty bad, for real. And I remember seeing the musical Titanic. They did that big musical Titanic. And there was an actor, and I'm blanking on his name right now, and he was like the guy operating the radio. And here he was,

and there was a lot riding on the musical Titanic, just like there was the movie. They had spent like $10 million on it, and it was all this pressure and it kept delaying the opening because they had trouble because the ship kept the revolving ship kept like locking on stage and they'd uh etc and it didn't sink it all of a sudden the whole musical so i remember seeing this guy on stage and in the midst of all this this is this 10 million dollar thing and all this pressure and i had friends in the show and they were so nervous about is it gonna how's it gonna do and stuff like that he was just on this he was just couldn't have been more relaxed he was like singing a song and doing the radio and dial and telling some jokes and just like cool as a cucumber as if he was just like he didn't know he was about to die he didn't know he was about to die but he didn't even know and all I did when I was in my first Broadway show was feel the pressure I was like oh my God I got to get good reviews maybe the William Morris agency will sign me maybe I'll get a Tony nomination oh I yeah

the pressure's not feeling the pressure you're doing it for all the wrong reasons exactly and I did do it for all the wrong reasons. So that's an example. And then I often thought back on his performance when I was doing stuff in the future, been like, remember that guy, be like that guy. Yeah. You know, like all this stuff, people are watching. You know, there's different pressures, whether you're auditioning or what have you.

Like, how can you just effortlessly, lightly, and spontaneously be in the moment? Yeah. I don't read reviews for that reason. there was there even when you do theater nothing yeah yeah and i find uh i find it just liberating because i'm it wouldn't change your performance in a play it you can't change your performance in a movie yeah and um it's an opinion and our job is to do the best we possibly can put everything into it and then walk away because there are so many elements to it, right? So many parts that have to come together to make something a hit or whatever.

Yeah. And so you do your job and walk away. And I find that reading reviews either good or bad, either blows smoke up your ass or blows up your ass. And you're like, you could read, people could read nine good reviews and one bad one. Yeah. And what will they think about? What will stick in your head? It's exactly. What will affect your performance? It doesn't help you. So just let it go. Let it all go. Do the best you can and let it go.

But I cut off the four things. So number one is talent. And then we talked about assessing your own talent and adjusting and learning thereby. And that is part of it. It really is part of it. Really know your talent. And that's why when I was going from classroom to classroom with classroom, I had this little thing in the back of my head saying,

if I become the best actor in this class, I'm leaving it. so that I find where I'm clearly not the best actor and join that class. You always want to be in a class with people who are much better than you. Who was the best acting teacher you had? I would say Shirley Knight, the actor Shirley Knight.

She was really kind of no-nonsense, beautiful. Did she live in New York? Yeah. And she's a beautiful actor. By the way. Yeah. I used to wait tables, on Shirley Knight. Oh, did you really? Give me acting advice.

Yeah. For real. She was a gem. She really was. She was a big-hearted gem. Yeah. I told her, I was giving her eggs. She would go to this diner called the Commissary. It was at 18th and 8th. And back when Chelsea was a little sketchy. Yeah. And I was, I'm an actor. I'm going to NYU or got, I forget if I'd just gotten out of him. And she took the time to like, she's an Oscar nominee. Yeah. Deer Hunter? Was it? No. No. No. we should find out for sure. Shirley Knight was nominated for two Academy Awards, top of the stairs and sweet bird of youth.

Sweet bird of youth is the one. She won a Tony for Kennedy's children by Robert Patrick. But she actually took the time to kind of like give me advice and speak to me. And she came back regularly, asked for me, whatever. It was pretty remarkable. Go ahead. She was terrific because, you know,

a lot of acting coaches that you have to kind of wade through their own kind of idolatry that they've created. And she was just free of that. And she came up with an axiom that I was able to hold on to. And she said, it's about the four shuns. And she said, the first foundation is relaxation. Actors need to establish their own sense of relaxation, whatever that is. So you meditate, do you go for a run?

Do you, what do you do? Yeah, to create relaxation. So that you can be like the guy on the Titanic. Exactly. As relaxed as he is. The only way you can do that is starting from relaxation. And then from Bill to that is using concentration. Only when you're relaxed can you concentrate.

We know when we've been nervous on something, oh, God, I know this. You know, when you get nervous and your focus is off. So relaxation, concentration. That's what happened to me in my portrayal of Otto. So I really want another chance. But keep going. Yeah.

Maybe at the end. Keep going. Thank you. Relaxation. Thank you. Concentration. And then only when you're relaxed, concentrate a can imagination come. When you are focused enough to be able to go, you're like swimming on stage.

And you can see everything and you're very, everything's acute. And you're listening. You're there and you feel your feet and you're grounded and you're like, wow, this is great. And sometimes the fourth one comes to you. I'm going to guess it. Inspiration. It is. It is inspiration.

Boom. Pencil drop. And that's and that is true because inspiration is a, is a infrequent guest. That is. To be honest. That is very well said. Yeah. I remember there were a couple stories about when I wanted to become an actor.

And I know you have a similar story, and I want to hear about the community college story because both of our stories involve women. So I moved to this new high school outside of Chicago called New Trier that had this amazing theater program and a storied theater program. They had several theaters. They did like nine productions a year, and they had guest directors. and it was crazy. I had moved from, like,

working class suburban Seattle. My dad was a sewer man. And I moved into this like John Hughes kind of fairyland of these giant tutor homes and these kids who got Porsches on their 16th birthday and they had all this arts money. And I was this nerdy pimply. So how did a blue-collar sewer man

become a tutor living? We didn't. I lived in the only apartment building within the radius of Neutrear High School. Oh, okay. So the radius of Newtrier High School. Oh, okay. of the high school had one apartment building.

It had like 16 units. It was Kitty Corner from the Linden Avenue L. Station. And we lived in that apartment building. Okay. So I was literally like the poor kid. With all the rich kids. It was like a living in John Hughes movie.

So I really wanted to act. I signed up for my first acting class. We did this exercise called Private and Public, where you're just supposed to be like you're in your room when you're a baker. You pull out a loaf of bread. Right. one just like that like as if no one's dance as if the world no one is watching and i did this

dancing to this elvis costello song on i brought in my turntable and i was playing with my cat and being ridiculous and that brought down the house all this laughter and i was this was literally like nine days into my coming in as my junior year coming into this fancy uh very literate uh artistic high school with this theater program. And then all of a sudden, all of these pretty girls surrounded me and were like, oh my God, you were so funny and where are you from? And you moved here. You're from Seattle.

Oh, here's Seattle's nice. Will you sit at our lunch table? You should audition for the school play. Here's the flyer. And I will never forget that like two and a half minutes of my life where I was just like. Yeah. And in my head, I was like, all the other pursuits that I had,

had done before, playing the bassoon, being on the chess team, model United Nations. And for some reason, those things didn't catch the eye of women? No. The bassoon, the model United Nations, I thought that was going to be like a pussy trap. That's sexy. Yeah. I mean, I represented Iraq. I represented the Soviet Union.

Do you know, I was, I literally represented the USSR at the University of Washington for the regional competition of model United Nations. That's a big responsibility. Wow. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. But you do a little Elvis Costello crazy dancing in your room and make people laugh, and all of a sudden.

So you're not welcome in China, but you are in Russia. I don't know that I represented them very well. Oh. I wanted to disarm. Two down. So we're now, yeah, we're running out of communist states. Running out of authoritarian regimes. But I remember in that moment, like, this is what I'm doing.

Yeah. what I'm doing. Yeah. But going on to inspiration, and I'm sorry to make it the Rain Wilson Story Hour, but I got cast as Alfred Doolittle in Pygmalion,

the Shaw play that My Fair Lady is based on, and he's the Cockney Father. Right. And opening night, I'm playing him, and I've got my whole character, Roy.

Roy, go. Eliza, come in here. Let me tell you a little bit about middle-class morality. You know, and I'm 17 and pimply and gangly and I'm, and I'm in there and I'm talking and on the set dressing, there's a bowl with candies. And in front of the audience,

and it was a big audience, like 500 people, in the middle of my monologue, I like say something, I turn, see the candies, pick up the bowl, open my pocket, pour the candies in my bowl and set the bowl back down,

brings down the house. I had never done that before. Yeah. It was this completely, inspiration moment. It really was. And then that was kind of like also the heavens opened up. That was the second time then it was like, oh.

The only reason it worked is because I think you were, you were having fun, you were relaxed, you were concentrated, and you were in character because that's exactly what that poor character would have done. Look how fancy this is. That's a good move. But isn't that... I'm going to steal that. So going for that inspiration

and this gets to the idea of the muse, and I've had several artists on the podcast and talked to many over the years, this idea that you hear time and time again is like, I didn't come up with that. You know what I mean? Like, yet the character came up with that. But is there this idea of the muse that's been around for 2,500 years,

that inspiration also has some kind of divine element. Have you ever experienced that? Yes. but it's only available to you if you're open to it. Yes. And most of us aren't. You have to keep putting yourself in a position to be open for inspiration. Yeah.

And it's- You have to prime the pump. You do. You have to. Yeah. And the way to do it is what Shirley Knight taught. Yeah. Is start at the beginning and that's relaxation.

And you think, well, how am I going to get, I want to get inspired. Yeah. Here's how to do it. Start down here. It's like building a ladder to reach that. You have to be able to build these foundational blocks to be able to get to that point, possibly. So have you had some moments like that? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Any of that spring to mind? You know, there's a number of things that have happened. I will tell you, there's a story when I was on Seinfeld. I'm playing the dentist on Seinfeld that got an enormous laugh. and I didn't tell Jerry or Larry David that I was doing it. But I was rehearsing. It was an episode,

and I did a half a dozen episodes as their dead as Tim Watley on that. And it was like going to comedy boot camp to be around not just Jerry and Larry and the writers, but Michael and Jason and Julia. They're so talented. And I'm watching everything. and how they, like a, like a surgeon, take a scalpel and slice off a moment to get a bigger laugh because, oh, it's like, wow. And I was privy to that. And it helped and helped me tremendously.

But this one episode, I'm in there and Jerry is in my dental chair. And he's wondering, you know, if I am hygienically clean. And he was concerned of, he was saying, I was converting to jokes to, you know, because I converted to Judaism to tell the jokes. And he was offended by that. And so he's in my dental chair, and I give him laughing gas. And he goes out, and he doesn't know if he's been molested because his shirt was untucked. And in his days, he sees my dental hijit, Gina's kind of put her blouse back together,

and I'm kind of, and it's like, what's going on? Anyway, we rehearse the scene, and off they go to another part of the set to rehearse another scene, and I stayed on my dental office set to figure out how the stool works and where the tools are and things like that, and I hear a voice,

hey, you know, it would be funny. And there's a guy on a ladder, adjusting a lamp, and I go, guy on a ladder, What would be funny? And he said, when you ask for the nitrous oxide, take a hit of it yourself first. And I went, oh, my God. That's pretty good.

That is really good. And so I didn't tell anybody, audience loads in. We do it. And I go, nurse, nitrous oxide. And I take it. Yeah, that's good. And Jerry cracks up. We did that little run maybe 25 times because he kept laughing.

And then I kept laughing and we can't. And Larry David's scolding both of us, stop laughing. Stop laughing. Do it. Do it again. Do it again. And they said, there's a brilliant idea. I go, it's not my.

It was, you know, the guy on the ladder is not there anymore. And I'm looking. It's out there somewhere. Yeah, he's out there somewhere. Yeah. So you never know where a great idea is going to come from. And you know who that guy on the ladder was? No.

Who was it? Jesus. Oh my God. I wish I had paid more attention. Yeah. Don't we all? No wonder he wanted to wash my feet. And I said, that's okay.

Like, yeah, take a pass on that. Yeah. Weirdo. This is what I love about you more than anything. Tell me about, in 1982, you played Billy Joe on Chips. What the hell was that? I love looking. through your IMDB page.

You played Cousin Darrell on Days of Our Lives. Okay. Because I played One Life to Live. I played Casey Keegan the Homicidal Stand Up comic on three episodes. You'd kill him to that.

I was like Otto. It was like... Yeah, you're killing him. And that was my first on camera. This was practically your first on camera. You did a lot of soaps. What was cousin Darrell like or Billy Joe?

Please tell me, take us back. Grandpa Television to 1982. Yeah. Come on. 19. Okay. You know, it's a job. I was on chips.

You remember? Isn't that the theme song? God, I hope not. Yeah. Because that's terrible. Yeah. Yeah, but no, it had. I lived on the same street as Erica Estrada.

Is that it? I lived on the same street as Eric Estrada for a while. Did you? Yeah. he was, Eric was, he was the cock of the walk, you know,

on that show. Sure. Oh, he was huge. He was the cock of the walk. Yeah. Yeah, he was banging my co-star.

I'll see it. Okay. All right. Okay. And we didn't know where she was often. It was like, there's a, yeah,

Mr. Estrada, hang on, we're just rehearsing. That was back in the days when the, yeah, come a knock and when the trailer's a rock and also like cocaine deliveries to sets

and stuff like that in the 80s. 80s. It was a lot of, yeah. It was all, it was a wild west. And it was saying, do you remember any lines from Billy Joe and chips? Of course. Please hit me.

Something. I'm getting arrested and punch or punch or the other guy's arresting me. And I go, you know, I think her name was Billy Sue or something. It was Bobby Joe and Billy Sue. Yeah. And so what do? Oh, oh, Billy too. What do we do now?

Oh, you know, thank you. That was, I'd like to, I'd like to thank the Academy. When you played Dr. Shepherd on return of the $6 million man and the bionic woman in 1987, what was that like? 87, Lee Majors, doing the Bion. Oh, I was a doctor who had to tell him that his son was in a severe accident. And basically, the only way to save him is that. to have him become bionic.

And it's, you know, so I had this litany of ailments. His eye was popped out of his joint. His right leg was severed. Did they do like the son of the bionic man or something like that is essentially what they were doing? It was like a backdoor pilot. They were trying to create, you know, this thing. And one time I did say,

I did come out and crack him up a little bit because I'm always trying to, but that was one way that I relaxed too was just to do silly things, to laugh, to blow out some steam, and then you can do the scene. And I remember telling Lee Majors when he said, my kid, what's wrong with my kid? And I said, well, he has a,

we had to amputate his right leg. He has, one of his lungs collapsed and was had to be room. And he has a piece of metal the size of a Buick inside his brain. And Lee went. Did you crack Lee Majors? Yeah, I got it. Yeah, I got him, yeah. He didn't pummel you?

No. He was such a beefcake. Beefcake, but he's a nice guy. Okay. That's a good guy. That's good to hear. They're very few people. And by the way, Eric Estrada, years later.

Super nice guy. Yes. Years later, I said, hey, I did an episode of your show. And he goes, oh, was I a jerk? And I go, not to me. He goes, oh, good. Yeah. I just never realized.

I just was too young to realize how good I had it. And I'm sorry if I was a jerk. It was really nice. That's a really humble thing to say. Yeah. Let's go trick or treating together. You dress as Walter White and I dress as Dwight Shrewt. No one would ever believe that it was really us.

They would just go. They'd be like, my God. It looks so much. It's unbelievable, honey. Look, you got to look at the. And let's just, and let's not do it in L.A., by the way, too. We'll go to Dubuque or Fargo and, or Milwaukee. Let's go to Milwaukee and do it.

Let's do it. You know what I did once at Comic Con in San Diego? I walked the hall. I walked the entire thing in a Walter White mask, a full-on, really exacting Walter White mask. I had it, and I had the Walter White clothes and the everything. And I walked up and down. Oh, my God. And people wanted to take their picture.

And they took pictures with me. And I found that I couldn't use my, my normal speaking voice because they would probably identify me. So I went up there. I was about there. That's great. Why are you doing? I'm just a fan of the show.

And, yeah, it's just a really fun show. I dressed as Roorshawk from the Watchmen. So I had that and went around Comic Con like that. And it was the same thing. People were like, oh, cool, Roorshawk. And they want pictures. They didn't know that the guy who played Dwight was underneath it. It's kind of fun for us, those who are recognized to not be recognized for what we are.

You know, it's kind of fun to be able to be a little fly on the wall for that. One of my, one of my fake names that I've used before is Pete Moss. I have a string of them. You know what I? Now, why do you have? Well, anytime I, anytime I go to a. Anytime you go to a hotel. Yeah.

Or you have someone picking up. the airport. Exactly. Yeah. I use a fake name. Yeah. Because I don't want people to know sure what I'm doing. Yeah. What's some other ones you've used? Uh, the one I'm using now that I'm going to change because this will. Yeah. Okay. You have to, now you have to come up with another one. Dave Javu. There's, is there always like a, a, kind of a pun in the name? It has to be something. It's like, that's fantastic. So I, they say, what's your name? I go, Dave Javu. Have we met before? Got the name sounds familiar.

Now, why the shades? What are you trying to be cool? What's that? Yeah, that's, I'm not scrapping it. It's too pretentious. I mean, you're pretentious, but not that pretentious. I also thought, for the picking up at the airport, I always wanted to do something I didn't do

was to give them the name Matt Damon. So someone way more famous than me waiting for Matt, and people would be like, where's Matt Damon, and then I show up and they're like, oh, it's the guy from the office. Oh, it's disappointing. Oh, wow. There was an experience I had once at the Golden Globes. We were at the Beverly Hills Hotel, and I was nominated, didn't win.

And we're going from the ballroom to the after part. I remember that walk. I remember that walk? Yeah. And they would always say, listen, there's, people in the lobby don't stop, just keep going through. If you stop and sign an autograph, then they're going to expect everyone else. And if they don't do it, then they look like assholes. So just just, just better not to stop. Everyone not to do it. So we're walking along,

my wife and I, we're walking along and, hey, can I have, I'm sorry, I'm not supposed to stop. You know, sorry, sorry, sorry. And we're walking all of a sudden, the line stopped. And we come to a dead stop. And then there's people with that. Yeah, and then there's exactly. And then there's these two young girls, they're probably 12 or 13. And they have, remember those autograph books? The action, it says autographs on it.

And it's opened up and it pens at the ready. Would you sign the book, please? I go, oh, I'm not supposed to sign. I'm not supposed to sign. Oh, please, please, please, please. My wife's going, see if you can sneak over and sign it. And I go, all, okay.

Please, please. Okay, okay, here, give me. And as I'm poised to write, the one girl says, Who are you? And I wrote, Tom Cruz. Nice, nice.

And a very humbling moment. Yeah. They just wanted an autograph. They didn't know where the hell of them. Yeah, I had that happen once at Sundance where people were like, can I get a picture? Can I get a picture in this woman? They left.

woman comes like, can I get a picture? I'm like, okay. And she goes, I don't even know who you are, but I saw those other people wanted a picture with you. That kind of stuff happens a lot. Hey, it happened to me. I was on Malcolm in the middle. It was on for about two years. And my wife and I went on a vacation to Yosemite. And we were doing Bernal Falls, walking through completely in our own world. And we come to a little outpost here where there's a photo opportunity, you know, and there's a girl standing there. She goes, oh, whoa, whoa, would you, would you mind? I go, wow, no, not at all. And I put my arm around her. And then she went, woo, woo, woo. And I went, and I went, oh. And I took the phone and took a picture of her friend and her. That's fantastic.

Yeah. We just went to India. and we were in some remote parts of northern India. And as you know, when you travel in India and some other places, a lot of times they just want picture with white folk because they've never met like white folk or don't interact with white tourists and stuff like that. So this time and time again, these families would come up and say,

photo, photo. And they wanted a picture with me and my wife, having no idea that I played Dwight on the office, They just wanted me from my... Oh, that's where I know you from. Yeah. I'm not being Dave Javu right now. Dejavu.

Yeah. Was this part of your series? This wasn't. I went in a couple months ago and we got to meet the Dalai Lama. We went kind of on a... I wouldn't call it a pilgrimage is a strong word,

but we went to all these holy sites in northern India. I haven't met with the Dalai Lama. We have met with a llama. You're sure it wasn't an alpacca. Oh, God, now I'm can, oh. This is the land of dad jokes, ladies and gentlemen. Please bear with us. We're octogenarians.

Do you want to have a real actual conversation about some shit? Not really. I told you I'd pay you $47 to appear in my podcast. I know. What was the $47 for? What struck that? Gas money. Gas money.

Sandwich. Yeah. Yeah. Gas money and a sandwich. Yeah. 47 bucks. Yeah. These days.

Yeah. Right? That's about right. Tragedy seems to me to be the unraveling of a story where there is ultimately no redemption or the characters make choices where there's not redemption. Comedy kind of allows for some redemption. It kind of heals and kind of closes. And why am I bringing this up? I guess I was wondering about, I was thinking about Walter White in terms of what we do on Soul Boom.

And I was thinking about morality and right from wrong and like, oh, I'm. I'm going to provide for my family by creating drugs, is this kind of like really morally dubious choice from the get-go that, you know, snowballs into tragedy. But to me, it also reflects a kind of a vision of the modern world where we have done this as a species to our planet time and time again. This is a species of Walter whites Where for me

As crazy as this sounds It comes down to God Because it comes down to A morality that exists above and beyond Any current circumstances of the world And this is another reason why I think Breaking Bad is so brilliant Is it is a very specific

specifically modern and Western way of living. I'm wondering what you think about that and about morality and where morality comes from. And if I keep thinking, like if Walter White had just a little bit of God, like a little bit of God and conscience, like maybe he would have been like, no. Like, I'm going to cash out now.

He would have allowed him to keep his ego in check. I think what made what made breaking bad work from a standpoint of just the observation of it. And only now am I able really to step aside from the subjectivity of it and look at it more objectivity. And I think it's the Soul Boom podcast. Subscribe now on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever else you get your stupid podcasts.