Soul Boom - Channel 5's Andrew Callaghan Fixes a Lonely America (Pt. 2)

Episode Date: September 6, 2026

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If you go to like downtown LA, it's just people ordering DoorDash from their studio apartments and going dating online and working to live and just being sad and lonely. The major cities have been gentrified to the point of, you know, there being like really no cohesion. Like the community has kind of collapsed. It's like a lords and peasants style class structure. It's why I'm pushing everybody in my generation to go back to rural living. Not fully off the grid homesteading, but to go and like live in small towns outside the cities. At least city kids like me. Like right now I live in a town in the Mojave Desert, but 200.

20 people. I pay 400 bucks a month and rent. I know everyone in town from the old to the young, and I feel like I'm a part of something. Can you say the name of the town? I can say that it's in between. Hey there, it's me, Rain Wilson, and I want to dig into the human experience. I want to have conversations about a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep with our favorite thinkers, friends, and entertainers about life, meaning, and idiocy. Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast. Our show would not be possible without our sponsors, growth therapy, cowboy colostrum, and fetzer, links and promo codes on screen and in the description. Enjoy the show. Soul Boom is a show about spiritual tools for modern problems. And, you know, usually with my guests, I like to dig into kind of spiritual quandaries,

mental health issues. Yeah. But I also view you as someone that I really haven't spoken to the likes of you on this show, which is someone at the front lines, at the cutting edge of a lot of fringe culture, a journalism, you know, what's going on, you know, politically around the world. You just got back from the West Bank. And number one, the thesis of my book and the show

is that we need a spiritual revolution. Would you agree with that? Disagree? How would you see some kind of spiritual revolution happening in the world? And do you think it's possible? and do you think it could make a positive impact? I hope so, man.

I mean, I don't really know what spirituality means. I wish I could offer something more substantive. But I guess knowing that like if you have the right intentions in life, like things will work themselves out and that knowing who you are and following like the path that you feel is right will ultimately land you where you want to be. Like I do believe in like a force of good existing like above us and around us as something like governs affairs, believe like in love as like the sauce of life. Well, I like the sauce of life and the source of life.

Yeah. But I can help define spirituality for you. It's anything a monkey can't do. So there's a lot of stuff we do as humans that monkeys can do, right? Yeah. We fuck. We throw our poop. You know, we eat, we sleep.

We form communities. And that's all great. There's nothing wrong with any of those kind of more animal-like aspects of our nature. But then there's stuff like creating. art, seeking transcendence, appreciating beauty, considering our mortality, reflecting on choices that we're making, wanting to cultivate positive virtues with one another, loving people that are even beyond our tribe, even when it's difficult, cultivating compassion. So that's how I would define it. That helps me. Well, maybe the closest thing that I would consider to be a spiritual experience is

like being able to film something in the field and like really connect with someone's story and like be able to absorb their message and then using the platform that I have distribute that message to millions of people. Yeah. That feels like I've alchemized something from like out of thin air. Yeah. Or that feels like a spiritual gesture if that makes sense. I totally make sense. And I think that for many artists, creators, but also doctors, or architects, there is that component to our mission and what we do. You are obviously doing what you were meant to be doing, even though this all started as like you taking a hitchhiking trip and wanting to document it, you know, as a lark. And I do think that, you know,

there's an expression of our highest nature that can come through the skills that we gain in the world. So maybe spirituality could be related to work ethic. You know, my first answer was going to be I can't pursue any sort of spiritual practice because I spend every waking second trying to do the next thing and create the next documentary and like, you know, but I mean, I do enjoy it. It feels like a spiritual practice. It feels like a religious pursuit a little bit. From my spiritual tradition, there is a phrase that says work in the spirit of service is worship in the eyes of God. So, yeah, work for the accruing of money is something different. But that's what you're talking about. You're like, oh my God, I met this

incredible person. I want to tell their story. And look at that. I put it up and it got a million and a half views. And people are like, wow, what an awesome human being you found out there in the field. Andrew, thank you. I never would have thought I would have gotten to see that story. There is a total alignment there. And that from where I'm coming from is a form of actual worship. Yeah. And especially if you can be a gateway to inspire somebody, that's the most exciting part. You know, like the coolest thing someone could say to me is like I hitchhiked because of you or I was going to go, you know, work some finance job that I hated. But then I saw you take your own way. So I decided to take my own way. I'm like, wow, that's so crazy that, you know, pursuing the things that I love have made other people want to do that as well. And that's an amazing feeling. Are there hundreds of young Andrew Callahan's out there with cameras and camper vans and suit jackets running around? Not with the camper van. But there's hundreds of young. mostly Caucasian males with microphones and two jackets. And little moustaches?

No, no, no. Millennial moustaches? Some of them have Ace Hotel millennial moustaches. I also believe in a higher power, though. Okay. Hey, everybody, make sure to click subscribe. It's right over here somewhere. Please, pretty please.

It would help us at Soul Boom so much. Click subscribe. Which is like the road. I don't mean like the concrete thoroughfares that enable road trips. Yeah. I'm talking about this like just like rolling the dice, like the road, like aimless travel like, the transitory state that you enter when you just surrender with complete spiritual submission

to the higher power that is the road capital R and the road gods I think everyone has their own road gods but some Ed Byrne who wrote vagabonding in America David Show was a road god Hunter S Thompson is definitely a road god you know all the highwaymen of the past that can kind of guide you they speak through the thunder in the clouds what do you got three yeah everyone you know there's different people mm-hmm but the road is a got carouac yeah the road is a place that exists like outside of mainstream american consciousness it's like a purgatory or like a separate dimension full of like you know vagabonds hitchhikers some artists probably some serial killers i mean there you know the road is gnarly but that it's that when you hit

the road there's something that i just feel if you truly submit to where the road will take you the open american interstate system it will reward you with everything you were looking for you just have to talk to everybody keep an open mind aren't we lucky to live in north america where their road is is a thing. If you lived in Belgium or Luxembourg, there you know, road.

Yeah. That's what it freaked me out the most when I drove from Berlin to like Ukraine is that there was no like pilots or like loves or flying to travel centers. You know,

where you get a big corn dog. Yeah. Nothing. You can't get a 10-gallon hat or a corn dog or a neon safety vest or, you know. You've been to, obviously you've been to Buckees before.

Sure. You know, they have those warm cashews covered in brown sugar cooking in the little microwave thing. Yeah, they smell so good. I bet you can't find in the entire continent of Europe.

You cannot, but you can find a Sabaros, though. It's pretty sad the fast food chains that make their way to Europe. Like, oh, no. Really, you got that one? I'm surprised they got Sabaro. Sabaro, I don't want to offend that. Sabaro's not my favorite. Okay.

No, Sabaro's is not my favorite either. There's a great Sabarro's joke in the office where Michael Scott goes to New York City. He's like, ah, New York pizza, and he goes into Sabaro's. but I love that you're afraid of offending Sabarro's company and fans. Because, you know, in this conversation, I imagine you're going to be offending all kinds of different groups of people. I'm sure, man. But you're a little bit hesitant about the Sabaro's.

Well, yeah, because, you know, someone's working a dead-end job at Sabro right now, and they're, you know, a fan of mine or a supporter of mine. And they put their all into making those sandwiches or the sub-sambwiches. I don't want them to, like, feel discouraged and go home. I think sub sandwiches. I think it's pizza. Sabaro makes pizza? I think that's a pizza place.

No way, dude. Sabarro's not pizza. No, what's the pizza place? What's the pizza chain? What am I thinking of? Papa John's. Sabaro does make pizza. Sabaro...

So if someone's taking a Sabro pie out of the oven, I don't want them to go home after a long name. I lost so much. Just stop talking. I've lost so much response to you right now. I can't even... Folks, personal growth isn't some overnight transformation. It's realizing halfway through an argument

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in seconds at growth therapy.com slash soul boom. That's growtherapy.com slash soul boom. Growtherapy.com slash soul boom. Availability and coverage vary by state. an insurance plan. What do you call a gut health gunslinger that's ready to blaze a new trail through your digestive system? Cowboy colostrum. That's right, I'm starting this ad strong. Fall is here, and everyone around you is probably coughing like they need a new plague. You need to support your gut and your immune system, and cowboy colostrum is true. First Day, whole bovine colostrum made in America from American grass-fed cows. It's whole, full fat, high-end protein, no artificial flavors, no fillers,

just actual colostrum. I put the vanilla in my warm coffee first thing in the morning. It tastes great in a smoothie as well. It's whole full fat, high in protein with no artificial flavors or fillers. When I put it in my coffee, it tastes less like supplement and more like, oh, hey, I accidentally developed a responsible morning routine. So for a limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboy colostrum.com slash soul boom and use code soul boom at checkout. That's 25% off when you use the code soul boom at cowboy colostrum.com slash soul boom. Yeha! What's your Seattle connection?

Well, I grew up there pretty much from age 10 to 18. Where'd you go to high school? 20 to high school. Oh, shit, hell yeah. Big K-town. I went to Northwest in Capitol Hill. I grew up there pretty much from age 10 to 18. Okay.

Madison Park, Capitol Hill, Central District, downtown, Pioneer Square, First Hill, like just central area. Okay. Kids could get crazy up in there. I was one of those crazy kids up in there. One thing that's weird about Seattle is because I left for a long time and I was in Chicago, then I was in Boston. I was in New York a little while.

Then I came back for a bit. And it was really uncool at a certain point in time in Seattle, I think in the 90s to ask what people did. You didn't go up to someone like at a party. So like, what do you do? Like that was considered really like gauche. So there was no networking. Yeah, and it was no, it doesn't, your personality, your identity is not defined by your occupation.

Whereas like in New York and Chicago and Boston, it very much is like, I'm in law school, I'm a lawyer, I'm an environmentalist, I'm an artist. But in Seattle, it's kind of like, what do you like to do? Because in Seattle, there's a lot of people that are, their careers are secondary. They're there for lifestyle. And yeah, I used to kind of judge that, but now I think maybe they were right. Like, oh, you know, I'm in a bluegrass band and I like to kayak. Yeah. You know, and I collect, you know, bobblehead dolls or something like that.

And that's their life. Whatever they do to make money, sell insurance or work at a coffee bar. Who cares? Yeah, they're not climbing the corporate ladder. They're not obsessed with like the next thing and reaching the next tier and achievement in the career. Is what you're saying? Yes, exactly.

And again, I do think that it is a failing in contemporary America that so much of our identity is tied to what we do for a living. Yeah, it's why I'm pushing everybody in my generation to go back to rural living. Not fully off the grid homesteading, but like, you know, the cities, the major cities have been gentrified to the point of, you know, there being like really no cohesion. Like the community has kind of collapsed. It's like a Lords and Peasant style class structure. Even if you go to like downtown LA, it's just people ordering DoorDash from their studio

apartments and going dating online and working to live and just being sad and lonely. So I was encouraged people nowadays to go and like live in small towns outside the cities, at least city kids like me. Like right now I live in a town in the Mojave Desert with 220 people. I pay 400 bucks a month in rent. I know everyone in town from the old to the young and I feel like I'm a part of something. Can you say the name of the town? I can say that it's in between Palm Springs and Mexiceli. Okay.

Yeah. And that's some serious desert out there. Yeah. But it's like it kind of reminds me of how neighborhoods used to be back in the day. you know, when they didn't constantly always turn over because Amazon moved there at corporate campus to where you lived at. When like when you could have a neighborhood where you came back a decade later and it was still the same mom and pop shops, there wasn't this like constant community destruction

turnover rent spike thing that you see everywhere. You're sounding like a Seattle radical right now. You're sounding like you're like you're going for class warfare. I am. But it is true. And it's so funny as you say that. I was thinking like DoorDash and like. hinge and Instagram, like you can have your whole life is on your phone.

I'm going to get my food on my phone. We have my date on my phone. I'm going to get my social life. I'm going to get my entertainment on my phone. I'm going to watch the YouTube. I'm going to watch Channel 5 News or Soul Boom like this. Yeah. Right?

That's what they want. They want to engineer a single-use consumers. It's kind of a word for it. It was like back in the day why the FBI waged war on hitchhiking in the 70s, J. Edgar Hoover had this campaign called The Danger on the Side of the Road. It was to kind of cast, you know, hitchhikers as like, you know, homosexual serial killers who was going to get in your car and slit your throat or have sex with your dead body behind in the trash forest behind a gas station. Oh, wow. Keep going.

No, that's what they were saying. Okay. It was like, you know, that's what J.R. Hoover said in a press conference. And pretty much the goal was to stop carpooling. It was to increase domestic car sales and to get, you know, so that Ford could compete with Hyundai and foreign manufacturers. So nowadays. And to buy a lot more gas, too. I'm sure the petroleum industry was so happy about.

people not hitchhiking and carpooling. 100%. And I think that that's what they want nowadays, but with everyone to sort of be a consumer who gets all of their essential needs procured through apps on their phone, who doesn't go outside, you know, and who lives terminally online.

Yeah. And doesn't procreate. They've talked a lot in the last several years about the attention economy, of which I think we're both a part of and contributors to. We're drug dealers in a way. But I was at a conference recently

and there was a speaker, and I can't remember his name. And he was talking about how really what we're in right now is the intimacy economy. And I thought that was really interesting because people are having relationships with their chat GPTs. I mean a lot of people not, that used to be,

if you had said that eight months ago, people would be like, oh, that's fringe weirdos. Yeah. Right? Who are married to it. But in all seriousness, I met a woman in my town in Ventura County. And she's like, I have a name for my chat GPT and I get up in the morning and I greet it and I ask it questions

and I'll ask questions about topics I'm thinking about or with the news and I'll get this and it has a personality and it's the it's the movie her come to life and and this person was talking about how that's that's a form of intimacy yeah when you think about it like and dating as intimacy and Instagram and what's going on and you know whatever social media you're using is like fooling you into thinking that you're being intimate with your device. Yeah.

I mean, I think if we had that technology during COVID, we'd be in like a nuclear holocaust. You know, like society would have actually like imploded. It would have been so imploded because, you know, it is sad to see. I just got an offer for a sponsorship from a Chinese AI company that actually designs you a girlfriend. You know, it's just for men. And because you can't technically do that here. Like I asked chat, GPT.

I was like, can we date? You know, it's like, yeah. Like, do you actually like me? Do you love me? They're like, no, no, no, I don't. You should go find a human. But I mean, once you, if you don't have those firewalls in place, it will be like the movie Her Times 10,000, because there's in cells everywhere. I lived out in suburban Seattle, but we would take the bus in almost every weekend, especially during the summers.

And we would just wander around downtown Seattle. It's fascinating. But we were 12 and 13 and just, and our parents would be like, oh, have fun. Where are you going? Seattle Center. We're going to play some video games. But we would wander up and down First Avenue. Yeah, for sure.

From the market through Belltown. Yeah. Yeah, it gets some gritty, grimy areas going on. The cool thing about Seattle is like it's super grimy and has a lot of culture, but it's not actually dangerous. So for a 13-year-old delinquent or someone involved in like counterculture, it's perfect. Because you can like, you know, talk to bums and find weed and hang on under bridges without like actually, you know, encountering like gang members. Yeah. Or getting shot at the face or something like that.

It's a playground for kids who want to get in trouble, but not too much trouble. And does Seattle claim you as one of the... their own because Seattle to me like I'm I'm pretty famous around yeah the the United States but in Seattle I'm like a god I feel like there should be a big like sports figures get big murals I feel like there should be a rain Wilson mural in Seattle I definitely would support that you would and how are you are you in the same ilk yeah more more so as I'm getting older now like Seattle's a real hater city especially you grew up in the inner city it's kind of like a crab's in the bucket mentality the coolest thing you can do is kind of be like a local who you know never leaves and never

accomplishes anything and like hates gentrifiers like hates tech bros works service forever and just like doesn't want to move kind of like you know yeah be a towny and I feel like whenever I try to put myself out there at first people like made fun of me you know I was a rapper in high school they made fun of me then you know when I started doing journalism like no one from Seattle was like

we believe in you except for a couple close friends but it wasn't like I had the community on my back like somebody from LA would this is a very supportive city but you were a white rapper in in high school I was a I mean I'm white and I I wrapped. I'm still a white rapper at heart. Okay. But what I'm saying is now that I'm like older, like people from Seattle are stoked on me.

But at the time, when I was- When I was younger, it's like, oh, you see him on the movies. Do you know, he actually, like, used to like, you know, rap, like, and Sagas parents. You know, there was just like random hater shit I would hear. Is that what they call tall poppy syndrome? Yeah. Like the poppy that sticks out above the others, it's kind of cut down. Seattle has that a little bit, you think?

For inner city kids in the immediate years after high school, yeah. But now that it's like 10 years out, I go home and it's like the new generation, and just knows I'm from there and they're stoked. Yeah, gotcha. You're encouraging your fellow countrymen. Jen, what are you, Jen Z? No, you're millennials. No, no, no, no, no.

I'm Gen Z. I was born 97. So I'm the oldest Gen Z there is. Yeah, the mustache shows shows. Yes, I do have a kind of a millennial mustache going. I do see fit for that Ace Hotel, Stumptown Coffee vibe going. But I am in fact, I did grow up on Chief Keefe and Little B. I'm Genzy.

It's so Silver Lake. Yeah, oh man. But really your heart is in Glendale. My heart is in Glendale. My body is in, I almost said the name of my town. Don't do that. But you know what? We're friendly here and we'll edit out whatever the fuck you want to get edited out.

Oh, no, no, it's okay. Yeah, the name of it will. Okay. Because that's how we are. I'll give people one more clue as to where I live. It's next to the most contaminated lake in North America. I know which one. Can I say it?

Yeah. Salt and Sea. Yeah. Now, there is a collective near the Salton Sea. Have you been there and filmed there? Slab Town? Slab City. Slab City?

Yes. Slap town? Slap ass. Slab City. Have you made a... Can you make a rap about Slab City? I don't have the freestalling ability that I once did, but Slab City's... Looking pretty.

It's a nice place. To get a kitty in the city and Slab City. There's a lot of kitties running around there. There's a lot of cats and dogs. I saw some lady walking a wooden dog on a leash screaming at the sky there once, and that's something stuck with me. Have you been to Slab City? Can you tell us about it? I live quite close.

You live close to it. Yeah, let's just say that. Because it's a crazy collective, right? Slab City itself is, there is a collective within Slab City called East Jesus that is kind of like a Burning Man style art group. But Slab City itself has no, like, you don't have to be a part of a community or collective to move to Slab City. Oh, okay. You can just go find a piece of the slab with a tent or a camper van or RV or something like that. Yeah, instead of bring your car.

or bring a tent, set up a generator if you have an RV and you're good to go. But there's no central power, internet or, you know, air conditioning, obviously. So you're encouraging your fellow Gen Zers to like a back-to-the-land movement. Specifically to build community outside of the big cities. Yeah. To seek to go somewhere where you don't have a gun to your head that is the landlord threatening to evict you. You can actually just not have to work a corporate job to facilitate your artistic dream.

And you can really pay 400 bucks a month and just like figure out. out how to sell stuff on eBay and pursue what your passion is. That dream is still possible if you don't enter the young professional space, if you don't pursue the coolest most hit place in the country. If you build something cool outside of the mix, there's so many sick towns that like if you and your friends move to and just get more people to come slowly, they'll be sick as hell. What are some of those? Well, there's so many.

Besides Slap City. There's a lot of cool ones in Arizona. Okay. Like in Southeast Arizona, Sierra Vista is pretty cool. I like Nogales, Arizona on the border. I love border towns. I love El Paso. There's so many sick ones in the Mojave Desert.

You got Amboy, Def Valley Junction, Yermot. Wow. Prim is cool. Good Springs in Nevada. Winamuck in Nevada is great. Elko. You should be a geographer. Yeah, Tinopa, Nevada can be cool too.

Fallon. How do you know all this? I've been on the road a while. Been on the road 10 years. Apparently, that's a good series to document some of these alternative communities. But it's weird. You say alternative communities, and it's like, Like, oh, that means no one's taking showers.

Yeah, you think of patchou oil on no shoes. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be that way. No, we just live like a normal life. You know, do all the normal stuff. Go to the grocery store. I have a job. Yeah, have a job. Yeah.

But at least have the job be somewhat connected to your passion. What about food and growing food? I don't know how, but I would. You would do that if you could? Yeah. You can't out by the salt and sea. The soil's too alkaline. I think that if you create some sort of hydropodic setup,

you can grow cucumbers and stuff like in your own garage. I don't really know though. Like I think food takes too long. I also grew up in the inner city. So like I had a tomato plant once and that took way too long. It takes such a long time. And all you get is like one tomato or a couple tomato. And then you can spend and then a squirrel comes along and then eats it.

And you're like, that's eight months down the drain. Yeah. What the hell? I'd rather just not know where my food comes from and just pay extra for the good stuff. cage-free eggs. We have a little bit of land and we have some macadamia nut trees. No way.

And we have some avocado trees. Now, I'm no farmer, although we do have some pigs, which we will not eat. We will cherish. But we have the squirrel infestation from hell. We hired someone to get the squirrels and the groundhogs, and they've gotten 60 squirrels so far.

and they think there's probably another 60 on our land. Damn. So you have more squirrels than the average homeowner? Yeah. Like two or three times more? I would say 10 to 20 times more. So you got like armed landscapers out there just picking them off with the arm and right for? Yeah.

And my, the guy bought me a pellet gun. My handyman, Scott, who's been charged with eradicating this population because they ate all our avocados. Oh, that's actually terrible, man. I'm sorry to hear that. And this is what people don't understand. and the vegans don't understand they love their avocado toast, but do you know how many varmints are killed to bring you one gorgeous avocado? Wow, have you laid that hypothetical or I guess real scenario down on a vegan before?

We're doing it right here and now. We'll see what happens. That's a scary group to have after you. Yeah. Making enemies in the vegan slash pita space is almost worse than Scientologists. This episode is brought to you by Fetzer. You know, there's this tendency in modern life to believe that every problem has a material solution, more technology, more productivity, more money, more apps reminding you to breathe while you ignore the fact that your soul feels like a raisin.

But the folks at the Fetzer Institute believe something deeper. They believe that behind humanity's biggest challenges are spiritual ones. Loneliness, division, disconnection, our inability to see each other, the planet, or even ourselves as sacred. And they're asking a really beautiful question. What if shared flourishing begins with the sacred? Fetzer supports stories, communities, and spiritual solutions from people around the world who are healing division, caring for the earth, and creating deeper human connection through faith, spirituality, and reverence for love itself. Not dogma, not forcing one belief system, just the radical idea that, hey, maybe the soul matters.

Honestly, that's a conversation we care deeply about here at Soul Boom. You can explore their spiritual solutions library and learn more at fetzer.org. That's Fetzer.org. That's fetezger.org. Thanks, Fetzer. What kind of hope do you see and what are your hopes and dreams and encouragement for Gen Z folks moving forward? Well, I think there's so much creativity. I think that within 10 years, all of the corporate systems that control news media and the distribution of music and movies will be virtually obsolete because there's so much.

energy with the youth right now and so many outside the box ideas and young talent that there's no way that the gatekeepers that are have been just making money off of you know creatives and and holding them back for so long we'll be able to survive this renaissance you know and so as far as the state of america and the future of our democracy not too much hope there but as far as gen z and the people taking back more creative power i think we're on the way well going back to what you're talking about, you know, creating communities outside of big cities, which I think is brilliant. I think that from that can be, you know, what if there's five communities in Idaho or Arizona or Iowa or something like that? And they're all getting together

and kind of making decisions about governing and kind of working somewhat within the system, somewhat without the system. Obviously, there's going to be a balance there. Because as we will rely less and less on a central government to be able to be at all rational or really supportive of its population. No one's in Washington, D.C. to be public servants, let's face it. Yeah, that's for sure. So the public servants have to rise up from the grassroots. Yeah. And perhaps greater and greater community could spread virally from some kind of, you know, collective. That sounds awesome. It's almost like a decentralized network of strong communities. I think that would be great where everyone gets those base level communal

fulfillments in their unit. And not with guns to take on the government or something like that, because that's often what people think too. Yeah. But to no longer be reliant on either the government, I think people still these days look to Washington, D.C. to solve their answers. And I see it, and this is what I wrote about in Soul Boom, as this just this constant revolving door,

of like people are so into their partisan politics, not realizing the system is cancerous to its core. So it's like, I'm going all in on this candidate. Oh, they didn't work out. I'm going all in on this candidate. And I think that's what the system wants every two years, every four years to be working for these candidates, to be raising money.

Millions and millions of dollars are not going to education or healthcare or agriculture. They're going to candidates and campaigns, and I hope that people at some point will just give up on that whole system and start creating a new system. Definitely. I think that starting at a local level is pretty good.

Like, if you vote locally in your town, like you have a say over the bike lane being installed. You have a say over a cool riverfront bike trail being, I don't know, I mean, the cycling examples, but you know, you can control the speed limit. You can put a speed bump somewhere if you feel like it's a freaking racetrack. So like you can make these calls on a small level.

It's just people are so zoomed out. You know what I mean? With this like, you know, Vance versus Biden. Sure. I don't know. You know, just all these major two-party electoral issues that they forget that you can actually make change in your community. And the smaller the better. Yeah.

But yeah, you got to be careful because when you say I'm having a small decentralized commune in Idaho, it's got Bundy Ranch Five to it. Very much so. And there's a couple up there already. As soon as I said Idaho, I was like, I shouldn't have said Idaho. That's why I threw Iowa out there. I was like, you know. I love Iowa. Yeah.

I love Iowa. So great, man. It's beautiful. Yeah. My wife and I, she went to college there in Iowa, University of Iowa for a while in the writers program. And we were trying to come up with euphemisms for Iowa. One was Waiowa. That's good.

And another one was Iowa, idiots out walking around. I mean, it's flat, so you can just keep on truck. But they're not idiots. We love you, Iowa. What's your favorite city in Iowa or town, sorry? I got to go with Iowa City. Yeah, you ever been to Algona or Britt or any of those corn towns up top? I've never been to the corn towns up top.

Yeah, they're good. Brit has an annual hobo event, like a hobo gathering, like Stick and Mindle, Vagabond. And then Algona is the town next to it. Wait, do hobos come from all over, or do people dress like hobos like the old Halloween costume? In town, people dress like hobos. But behind town, if you follow the trash fire, you'll find some real hobos. Actual hobos come for the hobo festival? Absolutely.

I love the idea of a hobo festival that is half hobos. Yes. And half people pretending to be hoboos. They've actually separated it now. They have the hobo gathering and then hobo days. Hobo days is for the posers with the stick in bed of office. And the hobo gathering is people who actually travel for work and live next to the train tracks. Nice.

Yeah. Yeah. And to me, as someone who works a lot in climate change, like climate stuff is something that we have to really be concerned about. And it's always posited as all these extremists going crazy in their climate stuff. Meanwhile, like El Nino this year is supposed to be the worst it's ever been. We're already at the 1.5 degree Celsius threshold heading quickly to two degrees. And it's actually worse than the scientists predicted. Yeah.

It's worse than the doomsayers have predicted. And we're in this kind of blind denial about it. And all this culture, it's all about like immigrants taking jobs. Yeah. By taking our jobs. And not about stuff that really is going to threaten our jobs. Totally. Which is drought and flood and fire and extreme heat.

And, you know, some of the communities that are most affected by these climate change issues already are being targeted with data center developments. Like if you look at the Imperial Valley in California, that area between El Centro and Calexico on the border, it's the poorest county, the most unemployed county in the state of California. And they have the most consistent droughts. the highest temperature they have the uh that they're constantly running out of water because they have to pull it from the sea of cortez or the colorado river colorado river is experiencing a drought they don't have the technology to desalinate the water from the sea of cortez and so these people are already having to pay a premium for water in the midst of a worsening drought and meta or google they won't say who is putting the largest data center in the state right there in the middle of el centro

with little to no pushback because they can dangle the job growth thing in front of these poor people and say, hey, how would you like, you know, 4,000 jobs and these people don't have jobs? So the idea of economic growth, manufacturers consent for the data centers that poison the descendants of those who vote to put them in there. So it's horrible and it's happening everywhere in Louisiana. Every single place, native reservations. West Virginia, yeah. I don't know if you just saw the $1,000 trillion, I don't even know at the words gazillion

data center, like lease investment that just got announced that they're actually putting in like the largest investment. There's not, I don't know, what is a thousand trillions? What? Yeah, how do you, how do you, is that a Googleplex? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, what's the next number?

That's how much they're spending to develop this data center infrastructure, just to build LLMs to ruin everything, ruin art, ruin life. Wow. I was doing some research on climate for an essay that I was writing. And I was wondering about the fires. And of course, a big chunk of my house burned down, as people know. And then last summer we had to evacuate. my cabin up in Oregon because of forest fires. And this summer, we had to evacuate again because

of forest fires. And what I found out is that the driest 20 years, over the last 1,200 years on the west coast, the driest 20 years have been the last 20 years. Really? So this isn't extremism to be talking about this. And now we have fire season, but we just acclimate, like a frog in boiling water. We just acclimate very slowly to this kind of destruction. What gives you the most thrill and the most joy about the work that you do in terms of your audience? Well, it's one of my favorite quotes is a Hunter S. Thompson quote from, I forget what book is from. It's like from one of his interviews. And it was like, anyone who says they love what they do is lying. Like if you truly love it, it's painful. Like he said it the best. And I think the quote was like, the most fun thing is the

inception of the initial idea and the publication of the product. Everything between is pure pain. And that's how I feel. When I think of a video, I'm like, oh, my God, you're in love with the idea. And it's just like nails on a chalkboard, like trying to make it happen, like trying to turn this thing and it rain into something material, like a deliverable. And then once you put it out into the world, it's like, boom. Everything between then, nightmare. Editing, nightmare. File storage, nightmare. I kind of like interviewing. You know what I mean? Like, that's the one part. I kind of like. I'm so glad we're talking about this because I think a lot of people

have misconceptions about that. It's like, love what you do, do what you love, love what you do. And it's like, I'm writing my next book. Like I wrote this book, Soul Boom. I'm sorry to keep talking about it, but it's the fucking Soul Boom podcast. So when I was finishing it and doing rewrites,

I was like, I am never doing this again. And I wasn't joking. I wasn't like hypothetically saying that. I was like, this is awful. I'm never going through this again. and here I am a few years later writing my next book. But I've been writing this chapter on consciousness and I'm loving it. And I'm loving the inception.

And yes, it's hard to write, but I can't wait for people to read it because I feel like, oh, people are going to read this. It's going to blow their minds literally. And I love the way I've structured it and all of the way that it's arcing. And I haven't been so jazzed about work that I'm doing in years. Yeah. And it's probably because you can see the forest through the trees now. You're like, oh my God, like it's almost there. We almost have the end product.

Yeah. And I think that's past. I always call it like the 70% mark. When you get past 70% completion, you're like, okay, we're almost there. It's going to be fun. Yeah, right, right. Between 40 to 70 is the worst. For editing, like that over the hump through the middle, it's like Wednesday, the hump day of the week. Like when editing a video or probably writing a book too, even writing the intro is fun. First chapter's fun, second chapter's fun. You get to the nucleus, the core of the shit. And you're like, man, anything but this. I feel that way about theater. I love the table reads and like kind of getting up on your feet and like playing around with the character. And then there's two or three weeks where it's just hell.

It's awful. It's so hard. You're memorizing lines, learning, blocking, working with people trying to figure out what they are going to need and how you're all going to get along. And then performing is a blast. But there's there's three weeks of hell thrown into every theater production, which is how I spent the first 15 years of my career. That's interesting. So do you prefer that to being in sitcoms? No, I don't.

You like cameras sitcoms. Cameras are fun and paychecks are really fun. And the hours are easier. It's a lot easier. I do like the challenge of theater where it is character and language and sweat and it's all immediate. And there's an audience right there.

And it's a high wire act and it's super, super hard, but I feel like at least once a year I need to go back into those waters. Yeah, it's kind of like me and hitchhiking. Yeah, I feel like if I don't do it at least once a year, I like lose something. So do you do that?

Yeah, I have to. It's almost like a requirement, you know? Like maybe if I have to get from Phoenix to Flagstaff instead of running a car, I'll just be like, me just get up. Where do you hitchhide like on the freeway entrance ramps? Do you have like cardboard sign or do you try and be very recognizable? or do you put on like a big hat or something like that or you know he'd do it on the show

I don't know like I don't know okay well are you trying to be like hey man on the side of the throat of the scary mask that's a number one way to never get picked up with a Jason mask that's what the FBI was trying to make hitchhikers like you know kind of look like Back in the 70s. You go to the shoulder of an interstate on ramp. Ideally, a long shoulder. You know, where there's room for them to. And you stand maybe with some grass on the side,

so you can have somewhere to chill for a bit if you need to recharge and come up with new presentation techniques. Do you have an umbrella, a sign? No sign. Do you hold a $5 bill like I'm going to pay for gas? No, you just want to look really clean cut. Yeah. You don't want to look like you're in Slab City. Yeah.

You want to like. You don't have a German Shepherd and a. machete. No, to wear a collared shirt, smile at people. You know what I mean? And then, or sometimes, if I'm feeling like really, I want to cheat the system, I'll go like this. Like, there's something bad going on. Yeah. And then they'll still be like, what's going on? Oh, are you okay? And I'd be like, I just got to, you know, get up the road. And I'll be like, oh, whatever, come on. Right. Right. But yeah, hitchhacking can be scary sometimes. Do you do this? Yeah. You do this. You do this. Yeah. Thumbs up. You don't do it like the direction I'm going like, like you don't like,

No, I don't know, because it's pretty obvious where you're going because the on-ramp only will go one direction. So you'll just do this. But it's not thumbs up. It's this. Thumb out. Okay. If you go like this, people, sometimes people will go like this to you back. Yeah, they think you're just on the road giving them encouragement.

See, this is important. See, I've never hitchhiked before. So I would have done this and people would have been flashing me right back. Or I'd be like this and they're like, what a tool. I'm going this way. Yeah. Anyone going this way? Yeah, I also pick up here.

hitchhackers all the time. You do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to. It's like my penance. And did anything weird ever happen with you picking up a hitchhiker? No, definitely not. Did anything ever happen with you being a hitchhiker, anything weird kind of?

It's always a little bit weird. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, typically it's the scariest when they don't say much. That's when you really got a, that's the red flag. Because typically someone's like, oh my God, you're hitchhiking. That's so cool. I've never done that before. That sounds so fun.

Where are you coming from? Where are you from? Yeah. When someone just picks you up and like, right, come on. Right. That's a scary, that is a scary thing. You don't want to deal with that. But yeah, there's plenty of, I mean, every time something weird happens.

Or when someone, yeah. One time I was hitchhiking and, like, I didn't realize, like, a bunch of red ants had got into my backpack while I was sitting on the side of the road. So I got in there and, like, they kind of all started, like, breaking out, they were breaking containment, like, the World War Z human volcano out of my chance port backpack in the front seat. Yeah. And I was like, but the guy, like, was like, a real tough redneck. And I was just worried that, like, if he saw them, he would get mad. at me. So I was like, just dropped me off because I was so nervous about him seeing the ants. Did the ants get in the car? They were all over his car. I mean, I'm sure that as soon as I left

he was like, what the hell? I mean, there's a lot of ants. It was like I had an ant hill living inside of my back there. Favorite guest you've ever interviewed? Man. Who's the guy with the five on his cheek and the metal teeth? Crit Mac. Yeah. He's so great. I love that guy, man. My favorite interview I ever did was with a harm reduction worker named Antonio at the end. of a Channel 5 episode called Harm Reduction Facility. It was about addiction and survival. This sounds terrible, but what is harm reduction? What do you mean when you say that?

I don't know what that means. It is people who provide essential services to mostly drug users in places like SF. So Narcan, places to sleep, food, recovery services. Got it, okay. People who work hands-on with that population. Right. That was the most impactful, but that's like a lesser known one.

Kurt Mac's up there with like favorite interview guest. He's great. Always a good time. Yeah, I'll give it to, I'll give it to CMAG. Although I wish he would stop gang banging so hard. He's still at it? Yeah, he's in his mid-30s. Yeah.

Not saying that that's bad. If you're watching this, Krimack, don't beat me up. What else gives you hope right now? We've talked about dogs. Okay. They don't know what's going on. Yeah. Maybe that's a basic answer, but you know.

We have this dog, this new dog Vigo. He's a rescue. And he's just so happy all the time. If you come in, he's like, hey, oh my God, you're here. I love this guy. And it's just every morning, it's just like, hey! Yeah. It's indefatigable positivity.

Andrew Callahan. My brother from another mother, my Seattle. Seattle. Seattle. Sonics forever. That's what Seattle guys say when they say goodbye. They go, Sonics. You're trying to make that happen?

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