Soul Boom - Finding God Within: Sri M Explores Consciousness

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

Sri M, Himalayan spiritual teacher and social reformer, joins Rainn Wilson to explore the mysteries of consciousness, the soul, and the universal search for meaning. Together they discuss how spirituality is inseparable from service, why love and peace lie at the heart of all traditions, and how to live a spiritual life while fully engaged in the modern world. THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS! GreenChef (50% OFF!)⁠⁠⁠⁠ 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://greenchef.com/50SOULBOOM Fetzer 👉⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.stamps.com/soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⏯️ SUBSCRIBE!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠👕 MERCH OUT NOW! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📩 SUBSTACK!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  FOLLOW US! 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram: http://instagram.com/soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 👉 TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tiktok.com/@soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  CONTACT US! Sponsor Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Work with Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Send Fan Creations, Questions, Comments: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Executive Produced by: Kartik Chainani Executive Produced by: Ford Bowers, Samah Tokmachi Companion Arts Production Supervisor: Mike O'Brien Theme Music by: Marcos Moscat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Every human being is a walking, speaking temple of God. We can build temples with concrete and stone, but this is a living temple. And then what is consciousness? We're going to go right into it. Come on, I have a guru from the Himalayas in my studio. What am I going to ask? I'm not a guru from it. There must be some meaning to life.

Yes. And let's start the journey to explore that. Let's start the journey. Let's explore. Maybe there's a podcast out there that can help people start that journey. Yeah, you should. doing something. I should. I'm saying you should. I am. That's what this is, you silly Willie. Goodness gracious. Hey there, it's me, Rain Wilson, and I want to dig into the human experience. I want to have conversations about a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep with our favorite thinkers,

friends, and entertainers about life, meaning, and idiocy. Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast. I'll call you, sir, but I know you... No, no, just call me. Just M. M. Okay. M capital M. M sounds like a code name from James Bond. Do you ever see a James Bond movie?

I know. Long ago, yes. But then here M means something else. You know, when my master, Maheshaw Nad Vaba, he was from the Nath Pant. We call it the Natsamphrataya. When he initiated me, he called me Madukarnat, which is in Sanskrit name.

And the first letter of Madhuganat is M. The first letter of the name I was born with was M. Mammtas. Yes. Plus M is the first letter of the word manusia in Sanskrit, which means a human being. Oh, wow. Or in Hindi man of human being.

Yeah. So I love it. But then some people with there, a Sri to it, which means Mr. Yeah, okay, actually. Mr. M. A little more respectful, Mr. You know, Sri M.

So it became Sri M. But I, I like it if people call me M. It's nice. M could be like James Bond's a spiritual teacher. He's got a cue and. In the end, I think M turned out to be a lady. Yes, that's true. That's true.

There is an actual M. What is consciousness? We're going to go right into it. Consciousness is something which nobody till date has been able to define. But I can say this, that consciousness is not confined to the brain. From my understanding and from what I have learned, consciousness is an all-pervading reality which works through different centers, like the human mind and maybe advanced beings through their mind. So I would think, let me put it this way, the brain is an excellent computer, beautiful computer.

I think it's one of the most advanced ones. I don't know what happened when artificial intelligence comes, but right now. The brain is a beautiful computer is a great sentence, by the way. Right. Now, and the operator is the consciousness. Ah. You see? We can have the most advanced computer, but somebody has to operate.

This operator is the consciousness. And now consciousness, therefore, is not confined to the brain, although it works very well when the brain is very good. Let me put it this way. Now you have a tree, right? A tree has no brain anywhere. Okay. Every cell is kind of intelligent by itself. There is photosynthesis.

There is no brain which says do photosynthesis. It's built in. Right. Right. Where there is no water. The roots go far. Right. Search for. Where is the brain in the tree? No way.

Where there is sunshine, the branches grow out to get the sun. So there is intelligence, there is consciousness in the tree, but it is not confined to a brain system. You know what I mean? Yes, yes. So in the same way, it is there not only in the tree, in the whole of nature there is conscious. The bird, everywhere. But we have one advantage is that we can recognize it and be aware, which probably the tree does not.

We human beings have the one unique capacity of being aware of it. Being aware that they have consciousness. That there is consciousness. That there is consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. And do we become aware of that through thought or through meditation? Through meditation, first the mind has to be stilled.

Okay. When the mind is still, then something else takes over, which you cannot call actually brain thought. We call it intuition. A presence. Essence. Essence. So, but it's necessary to, through meditation,

to bring the mind to that state where it can at least recognize that there is something beyond it. And that can happen only when the mind can be brought to tranquil, peaceful, quiet wavelengths. So therefore, all the practices of yoga of all kinds are meant to bring this about. Not to catch, you cannot catch consciousness. Consciousness according to the Upanishads and according to what we know is that which can neither be heard, not smelled, not tasted, not seen.

So none of these things are going to be of any health. But without that, none of these things can work. Like, I used to know a very simple soul in Kerala when I was growing up. He used to say that the proof of consciousness need not be demonstrated in any way other than how the eye sees the world. He said, the eye, I can see you because. I have eyes, but I can't see my own eyes. I can see a reflection in a mirror, but I cannot turn around and see my eyes.

So how do I know the ice exist? Because I can see the world. Somewhat, you can, this is a metaphor which could connect to brain and consciousness. Consciousness sees everything, but it cannot see itself. So to say that I have to find my, it's there. You just know that it's there. But you spoke about spiritual lessons being learned through experience, experiential and not just out of book study. And so kind of an awareness of consciousness of essence is something to be felt and experienced through a process.

Yes, yes. I fully believe in that. There is a process. But the process is finally meant to free you from all conditioning and processes. and ultimately. Let me put it this way. The mind is now, let's say, in a state of flux like clay. Suppose you have clay, the potter's clay. Yeah. So it has no shape, no nothing. But then you want to make it into a certain image.

So you put it into a mold, press it in. This is the discipline and the meditation process. Then you put two halves together of the moment. mold and the image is ready. Now if you need to see the image, wouldn't one want to break the mold? Otherwise, it's still inside. You can't see it. Okay. Right. Yes. Yeah. So the whole process of the molding is the meditation, the training and everything. And finally, you break off the mold and you don't know what to say. Okay. I know that it's interesting that if you go back to the Judeo-Christian traditions, There is a story of how Moses went up the mountain and he saw a light behind the bush.

The burning bush. The burning bush. Something. He saw a light like a fire beam. And then he goes there up the hill. And there is a voice that says, take off your shoes for you're entering holy ground. Okay. So he takes off his shoes.

And then he enters. And then he asks finally, who are you? And it's very interesting that the statement that you get from this, from the Bible, from the Old Testament, is Ahia, Asher, Ahia, which in Hebrew means, I am that, I am. There's no definition out. I am that, I am. I am that, I am. Ahia, Asher, ahia. This is what it says.

So, this is what it says. So this is what it is. There is no way to define this stuff. All definitions fall short. I can't, sorry. Please. The Upanishad says, which is perhaps the earliest text that we have.

Yes, the Upanishads, yes, yes. Yeah, wachana, beauty, that which words cannot describe. This is what the supreme truth is all about. But then to understand that, you have to read it in words, right? The Upanishad says so. It's words.

Yeah. Yeah, but it says, but it is beyond words. That is, you're reading words that says it is beyond words. But this is, we're going right into the meaty stuff, but is consciousness different than the soul? Or is it the same? Are they two sides of the same coin? I would say this is a better description.

Two sides of the same coin. You cannot think of the soul without conscience. consciousness. But consciousness can think without the soul. Because there can be consciousness without even an entity called the soul. Because it is an all, look, the Upanishad, which I always go back to, Isha, Vasham, Adam, Sarvam, that supreme reality pervades everything here. Now, if it pervades everything here, it pervades the body, the soul, the mind, everything. Now, the soul is the subtlest part of this element which can touch the... What part of the element? Settlest.

The subtle... Subtlest. Yes. Settlest element, this whole universe, that can perhaps connect to the consciousness. When you say soul, then there is an ego out there. I mean, not ego in the bad sense of the term. Ego simply means I. There is an eye there.

Okay. Now this eye, now this eye is a very, we call it satwick, or very pure, very clean, very tranquil eye, the essence. Now this essence is alive or its existence depends on the all-pervading consciousness. Let's put it this way. In another context, one can say the consciousness is the father and the soul is the son. I mean, not biologically. I would have thought it on the other way around

that the soul is the father and the consciousness is the son. No, the conscious, from my understanding, the consciousness is all providing, which can produce many souls. And then the souls finally merge back into that consciousness, which is beyond. So our consciousness is connected to a universal consciousness. And is that the same as God?

Is that God consciousness? And now this is the meaning of life. We're going right to the center of meaning of life. I mean, come on, I have a guru from the Himalayas in my studio. What am I going to ask? I'm not a guru from the world. Well, I'm not going to ask you how to make a grilled cheese sandwich. Which I don't know anyway.

Is God a universal consciousness, like the amalgam of all the consciousness? Absolutely. You're right. But the problem is the moment you use the word God, it acquires so many, meanings which has come down to us. This is where the problem is not, you're right, God is the eternal, supreme consciousness, universal. But when you say God, people have defined God in so many ways.

This is why we get into travel. Yeah. Yeah, somebody, this is my God, this is your God. I'm saying there's one. But then perhaps it was interpreted in different ways by different people at different times to suit humanity. and the geographical locality of where this truth were thought.

Perhaps. But it cannot be different. It has to be the one. Let's take Islam, for instance. Now in Islam, also it is supposed to be a revelation. Muhammad, the Prophet, did not know how to read or write.

He was illiterate. And yet something happened to him and he wrote this text which you agree with it, you don't agree with it. That's a different story. He brought out this text. Later it was written down. He chanted in others learned. He brought out a text which is still the challenge stands. Nobody has been able to write such perfect Arabic.

So what happened? How did it come from? Well, then what happens is depending upon where it's. was and then later when imperialistic ideas come into religion, then it gets diluted. I think in the beginning, the essence was the same. Religion start pure. Very pure. And sometimes can get easily off track as they're corrupted by human impulses.

Exactly. Now, I have to say something. I wanted to put it to you in a little different way. go to all the universal religions, all. Of course, as far as the Hindu system of thought is concerned, it's not even a religion, it's a system of thought. Now, there were many teachers and so on, many rishis, many teachers.

But look at the other religions, let's say, who have one teacher, one woke one. All of them started with the mystic experience of one individual. One individual had a mystical experience and the whole thing started from there. But then, when it became formalized and then it got connected with, you know, imperialistic designs and expanding your territory,

it begins more and more suited to that purpose. Right. This is where it becomes diluted. Otherwise, I think the original spiritual experience has to be the same. In my tradition in the Baha'i faith, it said that the core of religion is the mystic experience that unites man with God. Yeah. But then what happens afterwards?

You've heard of Jindu Krishna-Murti, right? I'm sure. Yes. Okay. Now, I spend some time with him also. You know Krishna-Murti? Of course, later part of my life. Of his life, sorry.

He said something very interesting ones, which suits this discussion that we are having. He said the devil and his friend went for a walk. Then the devil suddenly bent down and picked up something from the grass, from the lawn, and put it in his pocket. So his friend said, hey, what did you pick up just now? Devil said, I just picked up the truth. So his friend said, then your days are numbered. Because you are the opposite of truth, your darkness,

your untruth. And if you put the truth into your pocket, which means your day is a number, you're going to go. And the devil tapped him on his shoulder and said, don't worry, friend, I'll organize it. This is where the problem comes. What happened then?

You spent three and a half years with your guru. Did he say, go teach what I've taught you now, go down to the city, start a school. What instruction did he give you? Well, he said, go back now, three and a half years afterwards, he said, go back now. One, your mother is very sick, go and see her. Two, go and eventually get married. We're talking all this here.

We are talking of spiritual things and so on. But normal human being who lives a family life, who works for his living, cannot understand what's happening to us, yogi sitting in the Himalayas. Go down, which means be like them, get married, have a family, work for a living, right? So he was not a believer in staying up in the caves or in a mamustery.

He was, but he said, you don't have to do that. Okay. And he said, I want you to go out and teach, not now. He said, I will give you a green signal. You're not ready to teach. So go back. After a while, if you find somebody could get married, someone who can, I mean, live with a person like you. And then you work for a living.

Don't use religion for a living. Work for a living. Oh, wow. Yeah. What did you do for a job? Well, I was a journalist. I did some construction with my dad. He was a man, construction man, you know, a contractor.

And how did you find a wife? Well, that is interesting. I found her in the Rishi Valley School, which is a Krishna Multi Foundation school. Okay. And she was teaching English literature. She's a Brahman girl. She's from the Saraswad Brahman group from the South. And her family was okay with her marrying a Muslim kid who'd spent some time in a cave?

That was a big story. Her parents were not very happy. Her father was okay with it. He was in the army. He was a colon. in the Indian army. So, you know, he was, but the mother and they were not so happy. So her uncle used to be also a medical doctor who retired from the army and stayed in the

Shivananda Ashram. So they said, in Rishikash, they said that we have to ask her the eldest person in the family and if we approve we can do it otherwise it's not possible. I thought they were trying to, you know, kind of give it out. So I had to write to Swami Chidhananda, who was the head, saying that this doctor who is in charge of your hospital might come and say this, that is an unfortunate thing has happened. My niece, so when your person he is referring to is me.

So you can do what you want. So when he went and complained to him, Swami Chisdanan, they told him, you're very lucky to have this boy in your heart. So it was a good. They wanted a Hindu marriage, so we got it done. My parents didn't attend. They didn't because you had a Hindu marriage.

Yeah. We had a Hindu marriage going round the fire. Mm. Yeah. So they didn't attend, but they were okay afterwards. You know, my parents thought that it was only I got married that my wife influenced to me to become normal. I mean, earn a living, make a house, look up.

You're right. I was never like that. I never, I was just earning money and spending it and being like free. Wandering around. Yeah. A free spirit, a spiritual seeker. So they thought she's the one. But your wife was like, get a job, M. Come on.

Not true, really, but they thought so. They thought so. Okay, great. And, and, but this is fascinating that as a spiritual teacher, you are not in, some ashram separated from the world. You had a wife and children and a family and you were in the world and of the world and learning about the world because it's it's very, it's easier to be spiritual sitting in a tree. True. And it's not easy. That's also difficult. But, you know, in the present circumstances, we need to go out and tell people that you can live in this world. And at the

same time you can look into the inquiry of spiritual matters. You don't have to run away. Where will you run away? Anyway. Yeah. Summertime, sunshine and soul boom, the perfect combination to feel your best. And that is why I am using Green Chef, the number one meal kit for clean eating. They've got fresh organic produce, responsibly sourced proteins, and now new heat and eat meals ready in just three minutes. I mean, that's less time than it takes for me to realize that my glasses have been on my head this whole time. With over 80 weekly recipes, Mediterranean, gluten-free, plant-based, protein-packed, you can eat like a six-pack king. I had their Mediterranean chicken last week and it left me feeling fulfilled, slim, and in shape. I love eating

Green Chef and you will too. Make this summer your healthiest yet with Green Chef. Head to greenchef. Head to greenchef.com slash 50 soul boom and use code 50 soul boom to get 50% off your first month, then 20% off for two months with free shipping. That's code 50 soul boom at greenchef.com slash 50 soul boom. Yum. Hey, I wanted to give a quick shout out to our spiritual partners at the Fetzer Institute. They have just launched a brand new shiny website over at fetzer.org. That's fetezzer.org. And it's full of spiritual tools for modern struggles, which is exactly what we're trying to cultivate here at Soul Boom. Fetzer believes that most of humanity's problems are spiritual at the root, and they're helping people plant some deeply soulful solutions. So I urge you to go poke around

their new website, check out fetzer.org. Thank you, Fetzer Institute, for helping sponsor the show and all of the truly amazing work that you do over there. Fetzer.org. That's fetzer.org. That's fetzer.org. Well, this is what Soul Boom is all about is how can we live our lives? There's people listening, watching that are working at a Starbucks or at an insurance company or they're school teachers and they're interested in a spiritual journey and a spiritual quest. What do we do? And so what advice would you give to people out there that are, you know, working in a Starbucks or a Walmart or a school or a construction company somewhere and are.

are seeking to bring a spiritual insight and a journey into a very difficult life where they have to pay rent and raise a family and deal with crazy family members and with our current political environment. Yes. What would you, what would you say to these folks? I would say that these are the people who need you. If you have some spiritual experience and if you have lived in this world and worked also, then these are the people who need you.

And don't go and preach to them something that they cannot digest. Go at it quietly. Like give them first the principles of life. Like your honest, hard work, okay? Try and stick to the truth as much as you can. Try to be kind to others. You know, it starts that way. And then they begin to reflect and figure out that there must be something in us,

which is beyond all this. But you can't suddenly go there and tell. tell them, look, you have to be spiritual. You leave everything. This world is not yours. Somebody is waiting for it. It doesn't work that. Even if you know it, you're not going to say that because that's not the way.

So I meet people. I'm not, look, when I come here, I have a shirt. I was just there in Praia garage for the Kumbh Mela. Jeff had come to visit me. Ask him, I was like a Swami. I would. But here, you can't wear that. I don't want to.

You don't dress like a Swami when you're driving around Southern California. No. Okay. Because I want, if I go to Starbucks and somebody opens a conversation, if I was wearing something, nobody will open a conversation with me.

I sit down, we talk, and then they say, oh, so what do you do? And then it begins. What would you say to someone in Starbucks who says, what do you do? Tell me about yourself. I say, like all of you, I work for a living,

but I have a spiritual quest which is deeper than that. Well, I would almost maybe quote lay treasures in your heart where thieves do not break in and steal, but they would think I'm a Bible preacher or somebody. Right, right. I know in many of your teachings you talk about how spirituality is inseparable from service and service to others. I love that. And this is so close to the soul boom ethos. And one of the things I wrote about in my book was this idea of a two-fold.

moral purpose, which is, on one hand, we are transforming ourselves. We're seeking to become wiser, deeper, kinder, more compassionate. And it's more of an internal journey. And on the other hand, we are also seeking to make the world a better place and be a service to others, to reduce the suffering of others. And it's a yin and a yang. It's always one feeds the other. You do one so that you can do the other better and you do the other so that so that it feeds the one. How does this come to life in your work? I totally agree with you. Oh, wonderful.

100%. That is no way out. You cannot say that I am a spiritual person and don't do service to others. It's not possible. See, look, if I see inside me a light, it cannot be that I am peculiar that only I have the light. The light is in everybody's heart. Okay, it may be covered, it may be hiding, but it's there, a spark is there. So when you serve somebody, you're actually serving God.

You're serving the spark in the person's heart. Every human being is a walking, speaking temple of God. We can build temples with concrete and stone, but this is a living temple. If you don't do service here, that service is different in the church or in the temple, ringing the bell. But this is a real service. I think this kind of service, on one hand, helps the others who are getting served. And to you, it's actually a spiritual journey. It deepens your spiritual journey.

So I think they have to go hand in hand. I don't agree with people who say, we are very spiritual. We don't want to do anything to anybody. So how spiritual are you? If it's not flowing out of your heart that you have sympathy for somebody, and that you want to bring the person up? You say when you serve a less fortunate person in any way, material or spiritual,

you are not doing him a favor. In fact, he who receives your help does you a favor by accepting what you give and thereby helps you to evolve and move closer to the divine, blissful being who in reality is within you and in the hearts of all beings.

I'm glad you picked that up. I don't know how you pick that. up because so many things. But it's our friend Jeff Cobur over here sitting in the corner, guys, you can't see him. He often puts your quotes in his daily meditations that he sends out. I know. That's how I heard that one. And I stole it from my next book.

Very good. Okay. No stealing. Well, I'm going to. Universal property. I will credit. I will credit you. Oh, no.

You don't even have to, you know. Tell me more how you. your work and your teachings of your students helps propel them, not just toward, you know, personal transformation and inspiration, but into the hard work of service in the world. True example, wherever we function, we do some things which are useful to humanity. In India, we do a lot of work because we have preschools for the poor kids who cannot afford to pay fees. We have a full-fledged free hospital

which does a lot of work including accident and trauma, you know, care. We have, we go out into the villages in mobile vans and try, doctors go there and check people and try to help them out. We also do a lot of tree planting.

You know, I am of opinion that once, The trees disappear from this earth, we are finished. The earth does not exist really if you don't have trees, greenery. So we have started something called the My Tree. Now, my tree? Yeah, because people plant trees, but they don't care for it. Right.

So you have to adopt a tree. I adopt it. So this is my tree. So I take care of it. Now also in Sanskrit, my three means friendship. My tree. So we've worked on that and made something, and thousands and thousands of trees have been planted.

We are also taking care of cleaning the reverse, water body development, and many things. If you just go into our website and check on this. Satsang-Foundation.org. People can find more information. You don't know your website. You need a business card. I know.

I don't have a business card. That's another. I also go and talk to churches, to temples, to all kinds of places. I've been to the Christian seminary in Kerala, which is a very important church. The Syrian church is one of the most ancient churches. Wow. Even before Europe became Christian, the St. Thomas is supposed to have gone to Kerala. They have an old Orthodox Syrian church there.

So I go to the seminaries and I talk to those people and I tell them, you don't have to learn anything. You have everything with you. Why don't you look carefully into this? So what do you tell them again? Can you repeat that? You don't have to look here and there. I'm not saying that you should teach Hinduism or less. No, that's fine.

You look at your own texts in your books deeply in and figure out what is being said there. And you've found what is outside. What's your view on Jesus? I think he was an extraordinary part. person, an extraordinary being. I won't say biologically, son of God or anything of that kind. I can't say that. Metaphorically, son of God? Metaphorically, yes. I think here was an individual who was a typical wandering yogi. Moving from place to place, not a place to stay. You know the famous quote,

the foxes have old have dents and the snakes have holes son of man knows not where to lay his head in the Gita Bhaghud Gita

such a yogi is called Aniketa one who has no home not so when you say people say homeless I am a little upset because

homeless is not such a bad thing from one point of view you know so I think it was and if you look at this sermon on the mount only. Forget about other things. Any, Luke, Mark,

anybody. You find Matthew, John, the essence of what one would call a spiritual being and spiritual life is beautifully expressed. And in fact, it appears more akin to Hindu and Buddhist teachings

than anything else. I'm not saying that he learned, please. There is this thing, everything came from. from one place. No, I don't believe in that. It must have come. But there's a universal message at the heart of the Hindu teachings, the Buddhist teachings

and the Christian teachings. How would you summarize that? I don't know how to summarize this. Love. Service. Care, care, love, service. And to seek peace in the depths of your being, of your heart. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be going.

the children of God. Nobody said, reseda, the Christians, that they should be called the children of God, peacemakers. So the moment you cease to be a peacemaker, you're no more a Christian from that point of view, from Jesus' point. There are a few Christians here in the United States that are not quite peacemakers. I know that. We are very aware of that. Yeah. In India, you know, we have all kinds of religions in India. Muslims, they're a Christian, they're a Christian, Hindu is the majority. And they're always fighting with each other and, you know, the whole thing. Not always, because the majority religion, which is the Hindu system, is very adaptable.

It adapts everything. But even then, there are times when each side becomes more militant than the other. So I decided that let me walk from Kanya Kumari through the breadth, length of India, till Kashmir, which is in the north. And why Kanya Kumari? Because that is the end of land's end for India. The two oceans meet. And Kashmir is the northernmost state we have in India. So I said, many great people have walked.

I said, even a small person like me can walk. Why not? So like St. Francis of ICCC, you know that. He walked. Swami Vivekananda walked. Shankaracharya walked. When a little bit here and there, Gandhi-ji also walked. He didn't do a long thing, but he did.

So I said, it's time that somebody does this. And I am ideal for that. My passport is still with a Muslim name. And I teach Hindu scriptures and meditation. So I thought this would be there. Who better to unite? I also went to the Loyola College. And I have studied a lot of.

Christianity from the Jesuits. So I said, why not? So I just said to a group of people that I'm going to do the walk. Where you want to come or you don't want to come, it's up to you. I'm walking. Very soon, people gather

and said, we are with you, we are with you. And help came from everywhere and so we started. So was it a purpose to unite the Muslims and Hindus? Not just Muslims and Hindus. unite humanity as in India at that moment, of course. Because there was that also that here is a guy walking.

This is his name. But by then everybody knew me as M. So people were curious, who is this M? Who is he? So we walked the length and breadth. You know, I don't know how much I could contribute to this, but I can say I learned a lot. We learned a lot of things.

because people, you know something, basically people are peace-loving. People want to have peace. They want to live together as long as politics doesn't come into the picture. This is what I learned. Yes. It's politics that brings about these problems. All politics, politics from the minorities, politics from the majority. Is it possible to bring spiritual thought and teachings and principles into politics?

I try my best. but unfortunately it is not so easy. It's not easy, but is it possible? I think it's possible. As far as the Indian situation is, I'm in close touch with many other people coming from across the political parties. But it's because politics by itself

is something to do with power and at all costs, you know, it's not so easy. But if there is a little bit of spirituality in a politician, he will definitely he or she will be much better than the other. I don't want to use names, but I think so. It took us one year and three months to finish the walk. We were basically on the road.

How many kilometers? I think in 7,500 kilometers. Okay, wow. And by the time, then we reached Kashmir. How many people were walking with you at a time? When we started, there were about two, three hundred people walking. They all fell off and there were about a group of 50, 60 people with me all the time. And then it reduced.

It became 35. But as the walk advanced, every place we went sometimes, we were mobbed because there were hundreds and thousands of people. You won't believe it. It looked like a political rally. And what were the people coming to see you or coming to support the walk? Support the walk, see me, saying thank you for what are you doing. things like and garlanding, you know, finally it became so difficult. I think you also were there partly for the walk.

People were putting so many, we had to just. Too many garlands. Please don't put these things. It's like they're heavy to carry garlands, 7,000. I mean, you can't see. You can't see. And it's heavy to carry seven thousand kilometers. So, it was so difficult.

So many flowers. But it was really, very nice. People really appreciate it. They supported. and then we reached Kashmir, we said, God. And that was a time when there was heavy militancy going on in Kashmir. Yes. Well, there still is.

Yeah, but less. Okay. But nobody threw stones at us. This is what I'm trying to do. You were embraced. We walked in on a Friday when these things used to happen after the Friday prayers in the mosque. Nothing. So in America right now,

Now, one of the things we talk about a great deal on soul boom is the mental health crisis of young people. Anxiety, especially, depression, addiction, and a loneliness epidemic. Certainly it's people's screens and phones and being siloed into different small groups. What can you say to the young people of America about this mental health epidemic? and are there some spiritual tools that they can turn to to find some hope and peace and connection? I think so. But I think for them to really listen, fellow Americans who are aware of this should go and talk to them. They shouldn't feel that they're trying to be taken advantage of.

You say, look, we need to have classes, we need to have discussions. We need to open them up for this discussion. and generally they refuse. We don't want. But then if a fellow American who sits with them, who knows what life is in the United States, how things happen,

if they can spend some hours, if somebody is ready to spend some hours, go to schools, go to colleges, have meetings with these guys and say, can we first figure out what is the problem? Don't tell them this is the problem. Do you have any inkling of what might be the problem from your perspective? You've just spent a month in Texas.

Yeah. I think the problem is that there is no spiritual content. Spiritual content? Content. They're not taught anything in the schools, colleges, nothing. Well. Curriculum, spiritual curriculum. Yeah.

Some may be going to church on Sundays, but is confined to just such Sunday. So how do you think spiritual content or curriculum or teachings can help young people with this mental. How? So they begin to reflect and say, we are wasting our time. Everybody makes some money and then it's gone and you're born and you're dead.

I mean, there must be some meaning to life. All I'm saying is just plant the seeds that they sit up and think there may be an alternate way of living. Perhaps. If that starts, then we can build on it. Until that start is very difficult. Planting a seed of their mind,

There must be some meaning to life. Yes. And let's start the journey to explore that. Let's start the journey. Let's explore. Maybe there's a podcast out there that can help people start that journey. Yeah, you should be doing something. I should.

I'm saying you should. It has to come from. I am. That's what this is, you silly willy. Goodness gracious. No, what I mean is that it has to come from somebody here in the United States. Not from anywhere. Right.

Okay. Okay. Wonderful. And there is hope. They're young people. They're very nice people. It's not that. But they're not been guided.

They're going this way, that way. They don't know what to do. I heard a wonderful statistic going back to service. This has to do with positive psychology. That people who volunteer once a week to be of service to others have a 16% uptick in happiness and well-being. And that's equivalent to, someone doubling their income.

Good idea. But we talk a lot about increasing income. If you look on TikTok and YouTube and podcasts and newspapers and media, but we don't talk about being of service every week and how that can create just as much happiness and well-being inside. And you don't have to work as hard. And may I say something? Please.

That this, when you increase your money, why do you? you increase it for happiness? And if that doesn't come, then there's no point. So the element, important element, is the happiness out there. Yes, yes. I, my grandfather once gave me a book to read because he was a, he thought I was an idiot. Why wasting his time? You know, all this spiritual mind. So he gave me, he said, look, you're still young. You can change your life. And the book was, think and grow rich by Napoleon Hill. Okay, Napoleon Hill, think and grow rich. Yes. Right. That's like how to win friends and influence people, Mike Dale Carnegie. And then finally, I read another book by Napoleon Hill, which he wrote in the last years of his life, saying that the greatest richness is happiness.

If you don't get that, there's no point. So you were on the right path all along. My grandfather thought I was an idiot, but I think I was. How can one find joy? Joy is something that is inside you. You need to just go in and look at yourself in your pure state. When your mind is tranquil, calm, when there is no disturbance in your mind, there's no opposing battles going on inside. There's a joy that dwells up in you, which is so beautiful, and it's not, you don't have to buy it anywhere.

It's your own, in fact, it's interesting. So it's tapping into something that's all. already there, not looking outside of yourself. No. In fact, it's interesting that the ultimate reality in Vedantic terms is called Sachidhananda. Right. Being consciousness bliss. Yes, bliss.

And where is it? With you. Bliss is in you. Yeah. Whatever bliss and happiness you get in the outside world is just a small part of this being tapped. Do you ever feel bliss? Always. But I feel sad when sometimes difficult to share it with others.

But that's how it is. I wanted to bring one of your most devoted and favorite students and a dear friend of mine to the table. I know he had a couple of questions he wanted to ask on the record officially. And I want to bring over. Jeff Cobber. Okay. My dear friend, who has a beautiful daily meditation that he releases and hosts a little show on

our channel called DayShift. Let's bring Jeff up. Always a pleasure to see you. So do you have some questions for your teacher to share with us? Well, the questions that I get, I would love to hear your answers to, with all of the suffering in the world. How do we make sense of that in terms of consciousness is one thing, the divine exists, there is so much suffering and people are making sense of that suffering by getting smaller and acting from fear and from separation. How do we make sense of the

suffering and without ignoring it find our way for, we? word at this time. I think ignoring is the worst thing that one can do. Yeah. The only way you can do is to accept it and to recognize it and see what we can do in our own small way to mitigate the sufferings of humanity. Plus, the understanding that ultimate solution lies in finding your essence. But you can't say that prematurely to somebody who's suffering when somebody is

suffering, you can't go and say, look, find out the truth, it is in you and things like that. So we should, the first thing I think is that we should begin to feel the pain of the suffering of others. And then from there, the action then becomes, it comes out in the proper way. We can't even plan it properly. If I feel really the suffering of women, then how to interact with them and how to try to pull them out of that,

the brain has his own way of working it out. It may not be even what we thought. It may be completely different. To in some way, when somebody is suffering, at least for a short while or a few days, we should be with them and learn what the suffering means. Because we can't, we won't be able to feel it as we live our lives.

It's when we go there that you really feel the suffering. You're asking a lot of people. You're asking people to lean into the misery of others, to study it, learn from it and allow it to affect you. And that's a, there's a natural human impulse, I know from, I have a lot of family members who are like this, that to not look at suffering. They don't want to approach it and get to know it. That is not the solution.

This is what I'm trying to say. But that opens up. And I think a lot of people, one person may be able to affect a thousand people. Because as I see it, because of my understanding, I say there is only one mind. Right?

The mind is working through different centers. Right? So if there is one mind, if I feel the pain of others, the compassion from me will pass on to that person. And the whole thing begins to get a new life. It's not always the suffering that happens because of lack of wealth. Not always. Many a time you have everything you want, but deep down you're dying, you're suffering. Absolutely.

Right. Welcome to Hollywood, baby. I don't know that. So for that, we need to go with them, sympathize with them, stay with them. There's no way to change it with any reformation from outside. That's what I'm trying to say. Tell me if I'm hearing you that there's only one mind, one consciousness, and what I do in consciousness matters absolutely to the whole of consciousness.

Absolutely. So let's put it this way. If you need a logic, I mean, there's... I have a fear of something, right? You have a fear of something. You may not be afraid of what I am afraid of. But fear is a common factor. Right?

Why? Because there's only one mind. See, you may hate something. I may not like something. The object that you hate me. may be different from what I hate, but hate? Common factor? If you look at it, many of these emotions are common factors.

Why? Because they are part of the same mind. Now, the corollary I'm trying to draw from this is therefore if that is so, if, then a change in one part should affect the other. If there is only one mind, sir, then if I change here, it should affect the other. more people cultivate thoughts of peace and a sense of peace, that peace can spread like a virus. Yes, because the opposite happened when people spread hatred.

We know that. Yes. Yes. You could see that. One person. So one of the problems that I see happening is because so many people are in such fear today, they're finding a position to own, to find stable, that finds stability. in some positionality of I'm for this,

which means I'm against what you're for. How do we allow for other people to have their positionality and not judge them for it and also not fall into our own positionality against theirs? Yes, yes. This is the essence of the teachings

that we have in the ancient India, for instance. I may say this in Sanskrit, but that's because the language at that point was Sanskrit, not because it is, you know what I mean. It's meant for the whole world. Egam Satwipra, Bahadha, this is from the Rigweda, maybe 2,000 years old, perhaps more.

It says there is only one truth, but the wise may call it by different names. The teacher, sorry, may call it by different names. So to understand that even if there is one truth, you can look at it in different ways and therefore don't say this is the only right view of the truth because it is infinite. It must have infinite ways of looking at it. So to make ourselves understand first about this. So you don't say that I am always right.

Young people come to me before they get married. You know? because they go to the swamis and Sanyasins who are unmarried. What opinion can they give about? So they come to me because I'm a married man. So, sir, what do you suggest that we are going to get together, getting married, we are in love with each other, any suggestions? I tell them, start your life saying that I may be wrong.

I may not always be right. Right? So this applies to everything on this earth. The problem is because I think I'm right and I'm the only one who is right, which is not true. The guy has his own opinion. He may be right too in some way. So if that process begins to happen slowly, then we don't make our thought processes so what do you call that? Crystalized and so hard that you can't break and move out of it.

So I think that is the kind of thing that needs to be cultivated. Now that reminds me of a question that came up when I was listening to you. I loved when you said that we take clay and put it into a mold, put the halves together, but then we have to break the mold in order to see what shape we've created. How does that, that's a, that's just, that's, that, I, I, I, I, I, I love that metaphor. What is the mold that we must break? The idea that we have to.

Only one mold that I'm always right. So stay teachable, stay open. Always be asking what next? Always. Nobody is absolute. We are all limited in some way, although our source is unlimited. We all here know the power of meditation and the necessity of listening within. and finding that place of quiet.

How do you recommend people pray? There's the loneliness epidemic, I think, can be at least approached by the idea that there's something listening, there's something watching, there's something that cares, there's something going on here that wants my highest good. do you recommend or suggest or offer ways of speaking to or asking for help from something greater than this small self? And what does that look like and how does that work? Well, it's like this. First of all, we need to accept at least on faith for the time being that there is a, because for ages, all great people have been saying all people who have had experience.

that there is an energy, there is a power, there is a goodness in this world. It's beyond the world and also in the world. So this is the thing you pray to. It is this entity that you are praying to. And it so happens that a spark of that entity is in all of us. So direct your praise here because that you don't know. We don't know. But here we know.

So direct your prayer here and make it very simple. You know, like, I want this, I want this, please help me. No, if you are the all-knowing supreme being, you know what I need. Please grant me what I need. This is the humblest prayer that one can make. Plus, very often what we need in our evolution is perhaps not what we want. Right. One needs to make a little distinction between.

And there's also in the Katow Upanishad, the talk of praise. and shrejas, that which is pleasant is not necessarily good. Not necessarily good. And that's a beautiful discussion in the Kathupanishan. And the Lord of Death is talking to this young boy and he says to him, look, I must tell you this. In this world there are two things. One that is pleasant and one that is good.

It is not always necessary that what is good is pleasant. And what is pleasant is good. Which is... Which is leaning into the suffering. of others, feeling the way it feels to be in a body and to have to step into the unknown again and again and again on a daily basis. That's not necessarily pleasant. I know. It's not pleasant, but then any great thing to be achieved is not always present. What is anxiety and how can you counter anxiety?

Now, physiologically, what does anxiety do? If you look at care, carefully, physiologically. Anxiety makes you nervous. Anxiety makes your breath go up and down very fast. You don't know what's going to happen. You're in a panic. The ultimate essence of this is panic. Right? Now I say that if this is happening and yogis have discovered that whenever you're anxious, your breath is working in a particular way, in particular rhythm. If you can control that rhythm and bring it to the perfect rhythm which is recommended by yoga, you can actually counter anxiety. You may not be able to take care of the root that caused the anxiety. But in the human being, it's a tool to address the anxiety. He addressed anxiety. And if you have addressed anxiety, then only will you be able to discover its roots.

You cannot, as long as you're anxious. Right. If you're stuck in the anxiety, you can't. You can't have the foresight to get to the bottom of it. Exactly. I think so. Is there a simple breath technique you can show us now? Very simple.

It's from our tradition also. We call it the hum-saw technique. Say that again? Hum-saw. Hum-saw. H-A-U-Saw. Okay. H-U-M-H-U-M.

Okay. It's very simple. It can be done at any situation, not when you're driving, of course. But you can sit down somewhere for a few minutes. Close your eyes. And it's like Vipasana. Watch your breath.

Look, we don't give any attention to our breath. And the breath is the most important thing in our lives. You can do without drink. You can do without food. But one minute without breath is impossible. It's the most important. But we don't give any attention to it. We don't even know how to breathe.

Honestly. So what I'm saying suggesting in this technique is watch your breath. Give attention to something which you have forgotten about. Say how important this breath is to me when it stops them dead. So give complete attention. Give holy attention to it. Holy attention. Yeah, breath.

This is the breath of life. God makes human beings and then breathes the breath of life. You see the breath. So close your eyes and watch your breath as you inhale. as the breath goes in, follow the breath. And we say that when you watch the inhalation, chant mentally the sound hum. As you watch.

Hum, don't hold. Exhale, saw. You're saying this in your head. Yes. Hum, saw. And there is one school which follows breathing. When you exhale, you do it through your mouth. So you actually make the sound of saw.

You do this for five minutes and you'll see the anxiety levels are down. I already feel less anxious. Right. Yeah. Just get 30 seconds. Five minutes. Just do it for five minutes. Just don't think why you're doing it.

What you, just hums so. But I love bringing a holy attention to your breath. Yeah, right. That's all you need to do. I love that. Here is a soul boom, spiritual tool for modern living. a humsaw, breathing to address your anxiety. And it belongs to no denomination, no church, no table, or nothing.

Breath is welcome to all. There's one question we ask every guest, and we've kind of already touched on this, but the name of the show is soul boom. Look at our new microphones. So good. But soul is such a tricky word. How would you define soul?

I would say soul is the true essence. essence of our being, which is therefore common to all human beings. The true essence of our being is my soul. You know, we even have an expression that somebody says, soulless chap. Soulless. Soless. There's no essence.

They're disconnected from their essence. Totally. Yeah. Well. And boom sounds to me like, what do you call that? The first bang that created the, The big bang. That's it.

That's it. Boom. Well, Sri M. Sir, thank you so much for coming to the Soul Boom Studios. Thank you, sir. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and insight.

It was a beautiful conversation. Thank you. I'm thankful to you. Thank you very much. And Jeff for introducing me to you. And bringing us together. Thank you. All right.

Good evening. The Soul Boom podcast. subscribe now on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever else you get your stupid podcasts.