Soul Boom - Gaza, Grief and Growth: Mo Amer on Palestine & Faith

Episode Date: February 3, 2026

Palestinian-American comedian Mo Amer (Mo on Netflix) shares his family’s story through war, displacement, and survival, and speaks candidly about Gaza, generational trauma, and why real dialogue matters more than ever. From the spiritual discipline of patience to the role of comedy in carrying sorrow, this episode is a reminder that hope is not passive, it is practiced. SPONSORS! 👇 Grow Therapy 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://growtherapy.co/soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ZipRecruiter (try it FREE!) 👉 https://www.ziprecruiter.com/soulboom⁠ Quince 👉 https://quince.com/soulboom Fetzer 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.fetzer.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⏯️ SUBSCRIBE!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠👕 MERCH OUT NOW! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📩 SUBSTACK!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  FOLLOW US! IG: 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://instagram.com/soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tiktok.com/@soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  CONTACT US! Sponsor Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Work with Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Send Fan Creations, Questions, Comments: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Executive Produced by: Kartik Chainani Executive Produced by: Ford Bowers, Samah Tokmachi Companion Arts Production Supervisor: Mike O'Brien Theme Music by: Marcos Moscat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Investing is all about the future. So what do you think's going to happen? Bitcoin is sort of inevitable at this point. I think it would come down to precious metals. I hope we don't go cashless. I would say land is a safe investment. Technology companies. Solar energy.

Robotic pollinators might be a thing. A wrestler to face a robot, that will have to happen. So whatever you think is going to happen in the future, you can invest in it at WealthSimple. Start now at WealthSimple.com. being able to have conversations with people that you disagree with. We've kind of lost that ability. We've lost that ability.

It's actually both extremes. Yeah. So I kind of don't associate with either. I'm like, hey, I'm in the middle. I want to hear both arguments. Because once you stop having it, that's the biggest problem. Hey there, it's me, Rain Wilson. And I want to dig into the human experience.

I want to have conversations about a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep with our favorite thinkers, friends, and entertainers about life, meaning, in idiocy. Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast. Mo, I discovered you. I love you. You did discover me. 100% people need to know this.

You 100% discovered me. Did anyone want to pitch a Mo Amher TV show before this guy? No. Not anyone, right? It was 2015, 100%. And it's still an awesome idea of me. It was about specific, the Middle East.

That's what it was, right? But I think we wanted to do like one season in the Middle East, but then you go through Africa, and then you go through Asia. Exactly. And we filmed a little pilot situation in Tunisia. Oh, that's where you were in Tunisia. Yeah, you had the, you had to film a little sizzle. Yeah, we filmed a little sizzle in Tunisia,

which is still great. The idea was that we go there, we eat the cuisine, we learn about it, and then I go do stand-up and some hole in the wall. Hi, I'm Muhammad Amr. I'm a stand-up comedian who has traveled all over the globe making people laugh. A Muslim born in Kuwait, but raised in the great state of Texas.

Hi. The two worlds I live. I love aren't exactly known for getting along. American food is not like, it's a joke, right? I declare war. It's a nice. I also like to eat. A lot.

I have an entire baby lamb inside of them right now. It's so good. Also, did I mention I like to eat? Don't ever do a food travel show right after you start a diet. It's still a really great idea. It's still a great idea. Let's do it.

Let's go. Talk to Netflix. You've got contacts there. I will. I will. No, genuinely, why not? Yeah, I won't talk to them. I mean, listen, Anthony Bourdain did it better than anyone.

Uniting the world through food. Food in our stomachs is the thing that can bring us together. Rest in peace, Anthony Bourdain, though. I really, really loved. I wish I had the pleasure of meeting him, man. He just looked like the best person to have a sit down in conversation with it. Also, like, you know. He literally used television.

to change the world. The world is a better place from his TV show. And that's pretty rare that you can say that. Absolutely. And just, what a phenomenal writer and order. Just like, you just could listen to his voice all day. Just listen to it all day. It's very sad.

It's also very sad. Rob Reiner thing, like, really just. Oh, you said you have a Rob Reiner story. Did you have a connection to Rob Reiner? Yeah, we met. It's really kind of crazy situation. So I was doing a show. This is, I think it was like all

August 2019 in the Hamptons, I had a show there. Howard Shores, the founder of Starbucks was there at the show. Just out of nowhere, it comes backstage, says hello. He's like, hey, why don't you come over and make a cup of coffee and tomorrow morning? I was like, yeah, I'm not going to turn out. I'm going to come by and have a cup of coffee. Yeah, founder of Starbucks was amazing to make a cup of coffee.

I'm going to take the cup of coffee. So, again, it's August 2019. It was instant Neskhafe. It was instant Neskafe. I was like, what are you doing? Delicious. You know, I go there, he makes a cup of coffee, super strong, bold, amazing, wired. And then somebody tells him, oh, someone says, a whisper in his ear.

He's like, oh, my God, Rob Reiner is here with his wife, Michelle. God, rest of soul, it's really just hurts. So he says, he's like, oh, my God, Rob Reiner's here. Now all of a sudden I'm inside an episode of Curbier enthusiasm. That's what it feels like. And then Rob comes in, he sits down with Michelle. So lovely, so sweet. He asked me the same story.

He's like, how did you get in a stand-up? I told him, I saw Cosby when I was, he was always like, oh, my God. And I told him I was Palestinian. He goes, oh, my God. He started having this great conversation again. There's Jewish background. Everybody, I'm in like, how is everybody?

He knows Jewish. We're all having great conversations. And he starts, you know, just having a wonderful, sweet, thoughtful, you know, dialogue. And then he goes, how did you start standing up? I was like, I saw Bill Cosby live when I was, nine years old, the Houston Lifestock Show on Rodeo. He goes, you know, I'm responsible for Cosby.

I said, what do you mean by that? He goes, well, he goes, when I was a little boy, when I was a teenager, I was watching the Tonight Show, some comedian comes on, and I can't go to sleep. My dad, legend, Carl Reiter, comes up to him. He's like, son, why aren't you in bed? It's like almost 2 o'clock in the morning. He's like, Dad, I can't stop thinking about this community. He's so funny.

I saw him on the Tonight Show. I think his name is like Bill Crosby or something like that. His dad looks him up, loves him, casts him an ice by. Bill Cosby. There you go. Isn't that nuts? That's crazy. Wow.

Yeah. Rest in peace, man. His wife was so sweet. It was so nice. So thoughtful. Yeah, I was really, really. And I was talking about him like the day before it happened to Steph. I was like, oh, I want to reach out to him.

there was a thing I'm working on. I was like, ah, I'd love his advice and stuff like that. And then the next day I hear about what happened. It was just devastating. It's very sad. This word tragedy gets thrown around a lot. Yeah. It's like, what a tragedy.

And it's beyond. Yeah, yeah. Just my condolences to the family and just my heart felt, like, just so sorry that happened. Just like, it's just terrible. There's no words for it at all. Just so, but I treasure that I was able to meet him and Michelle. And they were so sweet.

He was so sweet. He was like, you know, very loud and strong and just very, very clear about what he believed in and such a human conversation that for me, in my background, was so refreshing, you know. I just like, everyone again, like we had, you know, Palestinian, it's how you feel what's going on about, you know, just have this kind of tenseness to it.

And he was very sweet, very thoughtful, and was so kind and really listened. and was so, yeah, I treasure that meeting. I'm so glad that I was able to meet him. And what an amazing story. I mean, my God, incredible. His wife was so sweet. Everyone needs help with something.

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Yeah, yeah. And I don't go to Starbucks. I just want to know. I don't drink Starbucks. I do an S-Café. I'm an S-Café guy. You know, there's this idea that if you don't have your life figured out by a certain point, you're somehow behind.

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Now available in Canada, too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash Soul Boom. Free shipping and 365-day returns, quince.com slash soul boom. As every Arab, by the way, is a Nescafe. her like Nescafay. When my aunt passed away, she's so obsessed with Nescafay. And she just loved Nescafay. And when she passed away, it was so weird.

I had this, like, strong scent of Nescafay for like a week. I could just smell it in waves, no matter where I was. It was so... Maybe she was communicating with you through scent. I'm not even kidding. Yeah, yeah. Only the divine nose, but I know it was beautiful. Whatever it was, it just...

I thought of her, and it was just this... It brought up. Yeah, it was really sweet. That's so funny. Yeah, every time I was like, I was like, smells like Nescafe. I was like, what is it? I'll tell Stefan's like, do you smell that? She was like, no, what the hell you talk about?

I was like, I swear, it's like inside my brain. Whoa. I could just smell it, so it was so sharp. And yeah, it was really amazing. Like a good week, like just waves. It would just come and go. And I was like, wow. I love this.

She's so sweet. And I just pulled the word Nescafei out of my house. I was just like, I was like instant cough. I don't even know. Oh, it triggers the whole thing. Arabs love instant coffee, bro. We do that. I mean, we make the traditional Arabic coffee,

people call Turkish coffee, whatever. It's like, you know, the strong, bold, small cups of coffee. But man, Nescafe, that's, you just, every Arab person was like, what? Yeah, love me a little Nescafe. Plus they have those like three in one joints where it just has the creamer. God knows what it is in there. You know, God knows what it actually is.

Yeah. It's like coffee, creamer and sugar you just poured in there. It's like diabetes in a pouch. It's pretty awesome. It's phenomenal. Just love it. Well, I'm gonna confuse anybody. I'm Palestinian born in Kuwait.

This is like the whole thing of my entire existence. This is the conversation that I have all the time. Okay, explain. Tell me in. Yeah, so the Middle East is all based off of like different tribes. Yeah. So Kuwaiti is like a completely different. Right.

Yeah. People. Yeah, exactly. So me being my parents are Palestinian, I'm Palestinian. It's about your origin. It's not about where you're born. Yeah. Remember when Saddam Hussein went into Kuwait?

Yeah. Because he wanted their oil. Yeah, I remember that very, very well. Did that? Did that sync up with your life? Yeah, it changed my entire existence. How? How?

Still deal with it today. Yeah. How so? I was there for it. I was there when it happened. Yeah. So. 93?

Yeah. It was no, 90. 90. 90. Yeah, 90. Actually, what happened was is that Saddam was in an eight-year war with it on. at the time, which obviously devastation is happening on now.

And I don't even know how to even gather that, put it together, still reading about it. And worried sick about that situation. So yeah, so he came off of that war. And then the rumor is that someone told him that Kuwait was like taking oil from, I don't know what it was, exactly. And so he invaded Kuwait.

Yeah. And then our lives are changed forever. Prompting the Gulf War. And is that when your family had to flee? Exactly. So I remember this, like it was yesterday, there was a call 6 a.m. You know, you don't, at that time, there's no cell phones or anything like that.

So when the house phone rings at 6 o'clock in a morning, there's a problem. It's kind of a big deal. Usually is a big deal. So I remember waking up and hearing my mom, you know, speaking over the phone, you know, on the phone. And the whole family started gathering in the living room around my mom and they changed up the phone.

She's like, Saddam is invading Kuwait. And they'll be here, like they'll be in our neighborhood, they think by like midnight or something like that. Oh shit. Yeah, and sure enough, I was, I was passed out, I was sleeping, I'm a deep sleeper, I passed out through the whole thing. How old were you again?

I was nine years old, yeah, nine years old, okay, eight years old. So I, yeah, I was, slept through, out the whole thing, they came in. You slept through the invasion of Kuwait. The first initial. Typical. It is, yeah.

They came in, it was really dramatic, when they came in, I was sleep the whole entire time. The military came in. They apparently like broke down the door, you know, started like interrogating everyone. Because where we were living, the neighborhood that we were living in was a hot spot because my father worked for the Kuwaitial oil company. As you know, that was clearly like one of the reasons why, if not the reason why he invaded Kuwait. So that was, you know, a highly desirable, you know, neighborhood to get under control. And there was a palace at the end of our street as well.

they called the palace. Basically, when any diplomat would come in from overseas or any president, they would, you know, offer him to stay there while I was visiting. So it was a really hot spot for that area. And the fact that my father was a telecommunications engineer and he built the wireless communication

between the oil rigs and he built one of the first radio stations in Kuwait. And so he was like one of the guys that were looking for essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, yeah, And how did you get out? It was devastating.

So it was like when they came in, they kind of like took over the whole thing. They were very aggressive, according to my mother, were very aggressive to it. They were trying to figure out what we were ethnically and what my dad's job was and everything else. I started threatening everyone and apparently they were threatening to throw some kind of grenade through my window where I was sleeping. And once they, you know, found out who we were and everything else, we told him they calmed down. And they, you know, I slept through the... entire thing the entire drama of it all but yeah the next day was just completely turned upside down now we're like trying to get goods trying to get rice whatever

we can get any food water that we can you know store was was a thing and we spent several months and my mom got us out of Kuwait my mom took myself and my sister and my brother on a bus on a school bus literally through Iraq hit as many goods and you know gold and so you could go up through Iraq Yeah, on a bus. Yeah. They would let you go back into Iraq, but they didn't want you to go the other way.

And I'm skipping a ton. Like, there was tanks at the end of our neighborhood. Like, we were still like, me and my friends were still playing soccer while they were there. They were kind of antagonized, play with us a little bit. One of the times they actually played soccer with us, the soldiers did. You played soccer with the invading Iraqi troops? We did. We were missing a lot of guys to play with because everybody left.

So we didn't really have a choice. We're like, no, we don't want to play with you. We didn't want to find out what would happen. Were they any good? No, we're actually beating the country. crap out of them. We were so small and fast, like, they were just killing him. And then one guy just, like, I remember this like, it was yesterday. He just, like, nudge me. I went flying. He's huge. I remember being on the sand, like, this looking up, and I see this big guy, like,

sitting like this where they're just like the most bold black mustache, just thick. He was going, ha, ha, ha, ha. It felt like it was slow motion. I was like, all right, maybe we should let them win, you know? Oh, my God. Yeah. Maybe that was Saddam Hussein. It kind of felt like it was Saddam Hussein, to be honest. Yeah. But, but. But it was, yeah, it was so weird, you know, time for all of us, and really just devastating. So you took the school bus, you had gold on this school, you hit it, you squirled it away?

Yeah, my mom hit it. And then I had this in my series where my mom, you know, took whatever money we had because we heard rumors that if they find anything, they're going to take it or tax it or whatever. Yeah. So there's whatever little things we had left, and my mom put it in the lining of the suitcase,

sewed it perfectly, and then she had a little bit of money left, and she just didn't know what to do with this. She just kind of lazily, I hate to say that about my mom, but she did, kind of threw it between clothes. And then we get to a checkpoint in Baghdad, and we look out the window, and they were just destroying suitcases. They were just, like, breaking them apart

and, like, cutting them open, dealing lining. So my mom tells us all to get off the bus. She waits. She goes, opens up the luggage with all the stuff in it. We had, like, snacks and, like, orange peals that were eating on the road. So she just, like, opened up, messed up all the clothes,

threw all the rubbish on there. And then she just sat there. And then everybody started loading back up on the bus after everyone was searched. One soldier sees her. He starts yelling at her. It's like, why didn't you get out? You know, he starts being really aggressive with her. And his superior sees him.

And he goes, how dare you yell at this woman? Have we, like, lost all our civility? Yeah. Our civility, exactly. And he starts going off on him. And he goes, look at her luggage. It's obviously been searched already. And look at this woman's face.

This is not a face of a liar. And he boots him off the bus. us and we leave. It was like magic. You know, she's an extraordinary woman. Extraordinary woman. Before that, like, you know, I skipped a ton. Like, there was, you know, Saddam released a bunch of, you know, thieves and stuff into Kuwait to steal as much as they can, take as much as they can. Mercedes dealerships were completely taken overnight. It was pretty unbelievable circumstances. And I remember parking the cars in front of our doors. You know, my dad was being very particular about all that. And then my mom took us to, I'm on Jordan,

and then we spent a couple of weeks there, maybe a week there. And then my sister and I, you know, she sent us to Houston. And then my mom went back. My mom went back to Kuwait and, you know. What, to like get the blender or something? Oh, okay. To get the blender. No.

Yeah, it was just like, you know, it was the plan was to get my sister and I out first. Oh, gotcha. And then my brother was still there. And what was life like under the Iraqi invasion for your dad? I mean, they weren't in wait for very long. No, it was horrible. So my dad was in an impossible situation

to where he, you know, he's, you know, he clearly worked at the company, he's somebody that they want. And they've basically forced him to start helping them with the company. He had no choice. It's like either you say, no, you could be killed or something bad's gonna happen with your daughter. He was so worried about his kids, obviously, and his wife.

So there was no, there was no way to get out of that. It's like lose, lose, complete situation. Yeah. You know, there was a clear, timeline so there's like the Iraqis were there taking control he was under that situation he couldn't do anything about that and then the Americans came in and then the Americans came in our house I was not there for this part so he set the Saddam Hussein set the oil rigs on fire right everything is like midday feels

like midnight you can't differentiate what time it is at all my dad you know my dad was still there at the time and they broke in through the back door my mom's telling me this all the time It's like the Iraqis came into the front door, the Americans came in the back door, scaring the shit out of everybody in the house, guns drawn. You know, I think my brother still deals with this to this day.

And, you know, clearly they found out everything was clear, no issues there. So they left. And then the Kuwaitis took back, you know, they were taking back their country, understandably so. And they started forming all these different, you know, militias, roadblocks, all the stuff. And then they came and they took my dad

in the middle of the night, because they thought he was like a traitor. And really, I didn't even know about this until I was writing my show, actually. My mom disclosed all this to me. They took my dad. My mom doesn't know where my dad is. Why did they think he was a traitor?

Because he was working with the, he was working, you know, they forced him, the Iraqis forced him to work. What is he going to say? Screw you or whatever. He was, I don't really know the full. I think it was like dealing with communication. Like, this is under Iraqi rule.

Like, they found his paperwork. They found what he does? Like, what is he going to do? Get killed? Like he's not gonna, you know, he was in an impossible situation. My father loved Kuwait. He was a big, tons of friends there. And so this is an intense story.

So they take my dad in the middle of the night, the Kuwaitis do. They don't know what to do with them. My mom doesn't know where he is. It's, you know, it's oil rigs are on fire. My brother needs medication. She can't get it. She's just lost. She doesn't know what to do.

It's like something out of a movie. My dad, while he was held in this like makeshift prison or whatever it was, they were having issues with telecommunications. So my dad goes, I can fix this, your telephone lines. While he's fixing the telephone lines, he calls my mom. Whoa. Secretly calls my mom. He says, listen, these guys think I'm a traitor or something.

I'm not a traitor. You need to find this guy, apparently this guy is like, you know, a very powerful person in the royal family or something. To vouch for me. To vouch for me. This is the only way I can get out and you to find him. She's like, where is he? She goes, I don't know where he is. She goes, well, what about the money?

Like, they owe you money from the company. He goes, forget about the money. Just get me the guy. Find the guy. She's like, how do I find the guy? He goes, I don't know. But find him. I got to go.

Just, you know, gets out of there. So my mom, before she hangs up, she said to him, she goes, I'm going to find the guy and I'm going to get you your money because that is your due. She was like, okay, just find the guy. Yeah. Three weeks of three weeks of,

gone. She's like searching for this dude. She goes try to get the money from Quao company. They say you need to get that guy that my dad was talking about to vouch for him to get your money. You can't get the money. We don't know where your husband is. Taking to a undisclosed location. She is encountering different roadblocks, different militias. There's one roadblock

she told me about. They said, hey, how do we know this is your car? We're going to take your car. She's like, no, that's my car. Well, you need to find the title. She goes, what the hell am I going to find the title? She goes back to the house. She says, said, it's like a miracle. She goes, there's like hundreds of pieces of paper in this box. I reach in the box.

The one single paper I grabbed is the title to that car. Whoa. Don't know if she gets back in the car, she's searching for this guy. She goes to all these different, you know, she gets like tips on where potentially this guy might be and all these like makeshift prisons. Again, it's before cell phones, before internet, email,

email, all that. Google searches, yeah. Impossibility. So she goes to the, you know, this building that's clearly used as a prison as well. So she's outside the door and this, you know, my mom is like in tears. She's emotional. The guy in the front goes, if you keep crying like this, I'm going to put you in there with

the rest of them, you know? She was like, listen, I'm just looking for ex-person and he gets, he straightens out immediately. He's like, wait, oh, you know this man? Love is in the air, folks. On a first date, everyone has deal breakers, right? talking about your ex, talking while you're eating, talking about your ex while you're eating. Personal story, I once learned something very important on a first date. Profuse, nervous sweating does not have to be a deal breaker because I was asking thoughtful questions

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are free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Soul Boom. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Soul Boom. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Hey, I wanted to give a quick shout out to our spiritual partners at the Fetzer Institute. They have just launched a brand new shiny website over at Fetzer.org. That's FetZER.org.

And it's full of spiritual tools for modern struggles, which is exactly what we're trying to cultivate here at Soul Boom. Fetzer believes that most of humanity's problems are spiritual at the root, and they're helping people plant some deeply soulful solutions. So I urge you to go poke around their new website, check out fetzer.org. Thank you, Fetzer Institute, for helping sponsor the show and all of the truly amazing work that you do over there.

Fetzer.org. That's Fetzer.org. That's Fetzer.org. She goes, yes, yes. She just says, yes. I do know what he goes, oh, he's here. The man she's looking for to help release my father is there. So she tells, he tells my mom, like, go into the building. And she goes in, she says she heard some, like, sounds, people probably getting tortured. I don't know what it was. She said it was really, like, awful things.

And she's getting close to where this man's office is in the building's in Chambles. When she turns into his office, it's like perfect, lush carpet. And she looks around, and she sees all these electronics and all these telephones and everything else that's in there. She recognizes all of them. She goes, this is my husband's stuff. And she realized this is like, and he looks at her and he goes, who are you?

She tells him who she is. He responds. He goes, oh, my God, where's Mustafa? My dad, where's Mustafa? I love him. I haven't seen him. Is he okay what's going on? She goes, no, he's not okay.

He's been held. We don't know where he is. This is what's happening. She goes, impossibility. Mustafa is one of the sweetest, kindest men I know. How many documents do you want? I got you. Rights are all the documents, gets everything straightened out.

My mom goes, hands over the documents, gets the money that my dad. dad is old. She goes, gets my dad release. They said, okay, we'll meet you at the airport. So now we're all leaving the country. She said, we're all leaving the country anyway. So we'll meet you at the airport to release your husband. As they get to the airport to release my father, they say, what about, where's my cell? She, they're referring to me. Where's Mohammed and where's Haifa, his sister? And my mom goes, they left there in America. She says, how do we know that? Maybe he's going to go up and be upset what we did to his father and want revenge.

She's like, no, what are you talking about? She goes, now we need proof. The United States, they take my dad away. Two days of, like, getting proof, faxes, whatever, you know, way of communication. I guess my dad, they go, she got all, everything from my father. She got everything. Wow. It's incredible.

What a huge trauma. And they all joined you guys in Houston. Yeah, one at a time, slowly. Yeah. My mom came after, like, nine months. And my father came after a year and a half. Get work in Houston then? Yeah, my father actually, you know, to go from.

from a head job, phenomenal position. Running communications in oil companies, one of the biggest oil companies in the world, to opening up a 99 cent store in the hood. That's what he did? That's what he did. He opened up a 99 cents store. And he started selling telephones in that store,

like starting, because they were- The early days of cell phones. Yeah, no, no, before cell phones. This is still like early 90s. He would bring all these different cool telephones that people didn't know existed. So my dad knew all these different cool from different shapes that they have,

to shaped as a football, to, you can, there's a hold button that plays music. You're like, what? You know, like, all these different things. And he would show them like, this is why this phone's better than this phone is what it is. It was an 99 cent plus store. So he was just selling phones to basically communities

that didn't have access or didn't even know these things existed, these technologies existed. And he brought them to them first. And it was really cool, you know, and tragically, he passed away. What's up? No banana phones, no. But I did that one that football, I loved it.

I was like, oh, my God. Football phone? Yeah. I have a Hawaiian punch phone at home. Do you? Oh, that's cool. But I don't even have a landline. Yeah, but you get one for it, you know?

I might just get a landline so I can use my Hawaiian punch. Do it. Yeah, why not? But I'm sorry, I cut you off right when you were. No, no, nothing. Say that again. No, I say, yeah, unfortunately. My father passed away shortly.

I think it's like the devastation of, you know, losing everything. My father came from nothing to something, to like losing everything again. All my dad's friends of that age all died young. It's insane. Oh, gosh. They all died. Yeah, super young.

There's like the stress of all that. Yeah, they all passed away young. Wow. Most of them went to Jordan and lived there, but it was just too devastating. And for me, my family has been spread apart since then now. We're already Palestinian living all these different parts of the world. And we were a family in Kuwait where my uncle was two houses down.

My aunts were five minutes away. Everybody was really close and gatherings every weekend. from both sides of the family to like, you know, figuring it out in this not-so-great neighborhood in Houston initially. Yeah. You know, so it was hard. Then, like, I remember when getting into the States

and then Halloween happened, and I didn't know Halloween existed. Yeah. You're like, what the hell is going on? Why is everybody like, bloody and messy? They sent me to hell, is what I was thinking. They sent me to hell, you know. These demons and witches. Exactly.

Yeah. I had no concept of this. I was so, you know, the preservation of innocence was like a big deal you know yeah and I felt like all that was gone like overnight you've referenced your family being Palestinian and tell me uh what's your take about what's going on in Palestine is real whatever you want to call it uh certainly Gaza it's not often you get to sit down with a actual real life Palestinian stand-up comic yeah and yeah I just I want to hear what life is like for your family

and how you're feeling about the situation. So just give you a little family history on my end because there's so much to cover. You're asking a very, it's a really dense question. Can we just go back like a thousand years? Yeah, just go back a thousand years? I don't know. But I can definitely say that, you know,

from my own family experience, what we had. So my family is originally from my, you know, from my mother's side is from Haifa, which is northwest, like basically on the water, The Baha'i Holy Land as well. Baha'i Holy Places are in Haifa, and Baha'is have been in and around Haifa, Israel, since the 1880s.

So I mean, like, so my family, this is from my mother's side, were from Haifa. When 1948 happened, when the Nakhba happened, the forming of the state of Israel, which my grandfather was a train engineer at the time, and he called my grandmother and said, who was pregnant with my mom, at the time he said listen lock the doors they're coming in there's big invasion happening lock the doors go to the west bank at the time no west bank but modern day west bank a village

called boolean which is just shy of neblis and you know lock the doors that's then when i come back we'll basically the idea is that we'll go back when this all settles we'll go back to the house so that never happened whenever my family never got to go back to haifa that house was taken all those properties that my grandfather, who was well to do at the time, being a train engineer and a firefighter and, you know, had the ability to own land and things like that, in that area, we're all taken away from us, which is really just taking, just, I was talking about one family's generational wealth, quite frankly. And so all that was gone. So they moved to the West Bank. And for many, many years, the West Bank has been dwindling and taking, taking, taking

from the West Bank, so where, you know, Palestine barely. even exists anymore on a map. So it's all been fragmented and over the years there's clearly been a lot of back and forth and it's very important to say. You're talking about the, I'm skipping a ton because it's like impossible to like get all this. It's a college course essentially.

It's 100% a college course that requires so much time and almost feel like whenever I get on a podcast it's a little bit unfair to try to like squeeze it all out and if you miss something everybody's like, hey bro you missed this. You didn't even mention the, bro, you didn't even mention that one's Marrior. Oh, you're not to a semi.

Like I am a semi. Like, what are you talking about? This becomes this thing. It's just aggravating because in the end, it takes away from what the biggest issue is of all, is that Palestinians have not been able to live normally as civilized human beings. Like we talked about this idea of peace

to where you have this apartheid, every single institution on planet Earth, respecting institution on planet Earth, their job is to say, is this apartheid or not, says it is, where you can't move freely. I mean, I have cousins and family members that have been in the West Bank,

they've trying to see doctors and have the inability to do so. They can't get to the oil field, their oil, excuse me, olive farms to make olive oil or reach them so they go bad or they get destroyed or things like that have been dealing this for many, many years.

And Gaza, specifically, speaking about Gaza, you're talking about refugees within their own country that have been enclosed in this area that's called Gaza. And they've been there since 1948. And then over the years, the restrictions have grown further and further and further to the point where over the last 20, 25 years or so, you know, again, look this up, where it's been, you know,

they're not allowed to leave. Essentially, it's an open air, you know, camp. So you're not allowed to go in. Goods or everything is controlled. How much water you get, how much electricity you get, Wi-Fi, whatever, is all completely controlled. And there's no semblance of a normal life. And there's been many, many bombers.

It's not just over the last almost two years and four months of continuous carbon bombing of that entire region. There's been bombings for many, many years before then, over the last like 19 years or so, again, excuse me if I'm getting these details wrong. And so this is all, it was bound to happen. it was bound to happen. Unfortunately, I was hoping that it would be opened up

and people would have their own rights and be able to live normal lives and be able to have a future for themselves and their children. And rather that, it's gone to complete decimation of Gaza. You know, it's really devastating. And I've met a lot of these kids where are missing limbs and their lives have been taking from them. And they're, you know, I've met many, many kids.

I can't even tell you, like just recently, in Houston, there's kids who are getting medical treatment. I've met several of these children who are literally have, their entire families are decimated. There's one kid that I met that the, since the men were hanging out on one side of the building, like, and the other, the women were hanging out on one side, the way the building was bombed, all the men are gone now in that family. I know a doctor in Houston has lost 197 relatives.

You know, how long do you have to be in a property? to have that many relatives. It's hard to have this conversation on a podcast. And, you know, according to the Israelis, the Hamas actually was running the show in Gaza, even though Israel is controlling the electricity in the water and whatnot. And, you know, how it's not a democratic organization

and the two-party state, and there's a lot more to this conversation. And, you know, that terrible slaughter of innocent people on October 7th, you know, of people at music shows and children and grandparents and whatnot and it being filmed and documented was just just horrific. But so there's so many elements to this story

that I just wanna say like, that I'm not gonna get into because first of all, I'm not an authority, but I just feel like as a Palestinian, yeah, absolutely. I need you to speak what the people you've met, your family, and what your experience is. No, sure.

They haven't even say this out loud. It's kind of crazy to me. And it's also equally, you know, entire gaza all doesn't exist anymore, right? Yeah. It's been completely decimated. Yeah. And just, you know, just, you know,

that doesn't justify, you know, completely erasing an entire people either. One of the things. That's what's happened. Do you know that? I do know that. Yeah, entire people are being erased. Tens of thousands. Hundreds of thousands are in, you know, so many people are living in tents.

You know, you're talking about not just, you know, they're very, very educated, so smart. I think it was like the literacy rate was like almost 98% in Gaza. The idea, you know, you have philosophers, you have professors, you have artists, you have musicians, you have, you know, violinists. You have so many different incredible human beings that live there. I am not an authority on this. I just know what I've seen, and I'm the kids that I've met, and the destruction that I've seen, and at some point it has to stop.

You have to stop. And, you know, once you're done here, you start bombing another place. You start bombing another place. Like, when is this going to stop? Yeah. Like, for at what cost, and what is the purpose of all this? And you want to create this generational hatred?

You want to create, and I'm seeing these kids. It's too late. it's already been created. Seeing these kids, bro, it's like seeing these kids. It's just so devastating. Seeing them and just talking to them and looking their eyes

and there's just one kid that I can't even shake it. You know, just seeing him just staring out. He's missing his left hand. He has a few fingers on his right hand. And he's missing both of his legs from the knee above the knee down. Can't do anything for him. You know, he's supposed to go back to Gazzaa

to treatment with an electronic electric wheelchair like what is he gonna do the electric wheelchair and he's in rubble in complete and utter destruction does nothing can't move around he's lost his family it's like what do we what are we talking about here this is just one story of hundreds of thousands of people you know that's what I mean you know it's like no nobody's trying to omit anything but also like you know let's keep in mind what's happening at what cost you know there's a lot to say about this It's just so many journalists have been assassinated over like 284 journalists.

Yeah. Been taken out and assassinated deliberately. Like, this is crazy, man. It's not something that should continue. Absolutely. Absolutely horrific. Absolutely horrific. And what's happening in Sudan as well as terrific?

It's happening there, now currently in Iran. Like, it's just like, dude, I don't even know how to put it together. And honestly, every morning I wake up, like, I don't know what's going on. I don't know how to, like... So do you have any... idea so I don't even know how to like be happy I know there's like a balance to everything but I genuinely don't know genuinely I'm having issues just like so what's going on in the world especially in Palestine and Gaza is affecting you and your mental

health to such a degree like you're not sure how to be happy right now no absolutely yeah absolutely it's been like that for the last two plus years it's a to amount and I've had like personal losses I lost my brother three years ago I lost my sister not even six months ago it's like, it's just like, how do you process this? And then you just want to have a real conversation that's with logic and heart, right? You can't have a logic, you can't have a conversation

in the absence of logic and heart. You can't have one out the other. You can't just be like totally logical and heartless. You can't be all heart and all logic. You know, like it's, that's like, you just want to have real conversations. I have two questions for you. One is, does your faith, because Islam means peace?

Yes. Does it help at all? Is there any solace for you to be found in your faith? That's number one. And number two, it's very sobering sitting across from you, someone who's, you've played in stadiums, doing stand-up comedy, making people laugh. And your whole life is about entertaining

and making people laugh. And here you are saying, like, I don't even know how to be happy right now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Islam is a submission, right? It's not just like peace. It's like submitting to the will of God,

which is a higher power. Again, your incomprehension of God is your comprehension of God. Yeah. So yeah, I do, absolutely. I do. I do find solace in that. It is very, very helpful.

I understand that this life is also temporary. I also understand that this, what we call in Arabic, this realm that we're in called Dunya. And Dunya in Arabic also means low. So there's a very low level of consciousness and existence as well. There's much more to this, and I firmly believe this. And so it's about having patience and really going through the emotions

and understanding that with hardships, there will be relief. And that's what Islam teaches us. It's what it says in the Quran. It's like with every hardship, there will be relief, you know. And that's just being steadfast and being patient and doing the work and pushing forward to getting to a better place is what it's all about. Life is a struggle.

You know this in your head. Are you feeling this in your heart? Like what would Islam direct a Muslim toward feeling happiness or joy in times of great strife and warfare? Well, I think it's like, not necessarily Islam like directing you, but it's like your faith teaches you to be patient and understanding like with that patience,

there is rewards. And, you know, what you think is bad for you is actually good for you. You just don't know. In the middle of it, you're just feeling all this emotion, and it's okay. You know, it's about being balanced. It's not, you can't be happy all the time.

Like, blah, all the time. You can't be sad all the time. It's all in moderation. And that's what we're taught. It's like the middle way is the way. It's like being balanced in all these things is very appropriate. You can't just be a person who's just sad and angry all the time.

No, it's actually, you know, it's sign of generosity. You know, it's a blessing to smile. It's important to do so. It's to have that energies, you know, to carry that balance about you is crucial. And then you spend all your life, like tackling all these things that are going on inside you, both your intellect,

your heart, your nefs, which is your ego, and trying to stay balanced with that. It's like, when do you, you know, the balance with all these things creates the thing that you're all, we're all looking for. So it's all extremely, extremely difficult. But in these times, specifically like losing my sister, It was just, and my brother in the last three years,

have been miserable. I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How are you able to continue to make comedy through this? I think it's like what my entire existence is. Like with tragedy comes comedy relief. You know, it's just that. I feel like it's a funny thing happen

on the way of the forum. Tragedy tomorrow, comedy tonight. You know, it's like, it's this thing where it's my natural reaction to things to get through it. And so, you know for the time being it's just living in it and understanding it and it's important to let it pass and feel it rather than not do it because after my sister passed I was on stage like two days later had to film a special like a

month later so I was kind of and I delayed all my you know I could care less so but it would have canceled my life I'd give a shit you know I just wanted to see be with my sister for her last days so once she had passed I knew like oh man I gotta get this done you know like I got I was already like touring and putting it together so it just just like she had cancer and went like those last you know he just goes quick those last three weeks you know wow wow we've talked to it yeah really you know and it's like that it's like you know i released the show my brother died like a month before the release of season one and like you know it just keeps piling on

but it's okay it's like it's all right you know it's all right it's okay you got to feel them and i know a lot of people are feeling this everywhere a lot of people are feeling the same things and going through similar things and it's like what you have to think about is gratitude you know yeah having gratitude you have a lot more than you know you have have things i have great wife and family have a beautiful baby boy you know it's lovely you know yeah yeah thanks for sharing your heart i know that's really hard yeah it's tough man it's tough i guess i it's something that i'm really um always moved by and intrigued by is forming sorrow into comedy and trauma into joy and storytelling. Right.

And how do you see your role as an artist, as a comedian, as a storyteller, with such trauma in your people's history and in your personal history? Yeah, I think that's what, like, keeps me going, to be honest with you. I feel like I'm born to do this. I'm born to tell these stories, and it's like, And it's like when you tell these stories, they become, you know,

what your hope is is to be timely and timeless. That's what I, that's what I want. I want to create, you know, a body of work that just goes, oh, this guy was just like really on top of it. He knew he saw the thing before anybody saw it. Or he's sharing, he's being so honest and grounded and real. And so that's what did I feel like in my show. And even in the last special, like, Wild World,

it just had a lot. And I was just after the death of my sister, I was like obsessed with time, you know, itself and just keeping those stories going. And I just, I wrote this entire bit around time. It was very serious, kind of poetic, funny at times, but mostly just it was for her. And like for everybody else, also to be aware

that there's only so much time and how you make use of it is everything. So it's just, that's what I'm making use of my time is to tell these stories to be around my son, to be around my family, be around my wife, be present for my mother, where she's gone through, what she's experienced, And so if you're able to write these stories and keep them alive, they never go.

Nobody leaves. They're not here in the physical form, but you're keeping their legacy alive by sharing not only your heart, but their hearts. And, you know, that's what my focus is on. And, you know, in the last special, Wild World, like, honestly, it was very serious, and it took on all these topics, and it was very hard, and it was a really tough balancing act. And I just like, it was kind of buttoning up the whole thing for me, you know, about Palestine,

about how I feel what's going on in the world, what I'm going through without directly saying, I lost X or whatever. It's like just kind of reminding everybody of their own mortality as well and how they conduct themselves in the world and what they do at their time. Is there a joke or a riff from that

that you could share right now that... Yeah. Because you've bummed us out so much. I'm so bummed. You've got a substack. If you love the Soul Boom podcast, you're going to want to get our weekly newsletter substack sent to your inbox. A lot of them delve into the ideas around the podcasts that we're doing that week.

So sign up. Please subscribe. Go to soulboom. com. Thank you. No, so go ahead. You bummed us all out. No, it's not funny.

Okay. It's going to bum us out maybe more. I'm not sure. Okay. I'm just saying like time is under. and you can't make up time, you know, you can't go back in time. And some people are like, oh, just make up time. I was like, dude, you can't make up time.

You can make time, but you can never make up time. Some people are like, I don't care about time. I'm just going to go kill time. I was like, you know, kill time? There's no time to kill. He's like, I'm just going to go watch Love Island. Love Island. Next, you know, I got sucked in, and I'm yelling at the screen.

Huda, why are you doing this? Hooda! No, don't be upset with Jeremiah. He's just juggling all he's doing. because you just dumped on him that you have a child. He didn't know this. And don't you be jealous of Ace, okay? Ace is not even a real relationship. I was like, oh, no, they got me 40 hours, 40 episodes.

What a waste of time. Whatever it is, it's better than being ahead of your time. If you're ahead of your time, you're probably dead. Everyone who dies young, they're like, oh, he was way ahead of his time. So far in the future, he just died. And it goes on and on and on. That's great.

But it's really just being kind of, being conscious of your time and I talk about of the times and everything I love that idea of time as yes like all powerful force that you have to think about yeah it is all the time all the time that's what I'm saying it's a never-ending pun like within your own joke yeah it's constantly going so at the end is like you know I can go on and on but I'm almost out of time I can go on and on but I'm almost out of time because time time is of the essence and I'm almost out of time because uh what is it I forgot is I wrote this Like, I literally wrote this the day before I filmed the special. Oh, wow.

It was four pages. I didn't test it out or anything. I didn't test it out or anything. And it was just coming straight from my heart. And I was just so in my, I was like, I need a button for the whole, I need a closer. And I wasn't satisfied. And I just, you know, wrote it the day before I was filming. We had a film day on Thursday and, you know, like a test run on Thursday.

So I get to do that. And then I filmed the two shows on Friday. So I was really, really. really just a crazy, you know, everybody was just like, what is he doing? It's great, he's filming, you know? I was like, just leave me alone, I got it. And I ended up getting it.

So I was just very thrilled about it. Yeah, yeah. So hard, man. Like talking about these things is so difficult. And I always tell myself, like, bro, don't get emotional. Every time I talk about my sister, had a procedure recently, and just a little neat thing, easy, you know, whatever. But they put me under, I woke up.

First thing I did was call my sister. I didn't even know I did. Yeah. And I was like, oh, ah. Ah. What's your relationship to the Arabic language? I speak with my son a ton. That's why he's out here confused.

He was just walking around like all the time. And my wife's like, all right, well, you know, we gotta hear it, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I'm always, it's how I communicate with my mom, my brother, my aunts, my whole family. family yeah for sure what are your feelings about about arabic i think it's such a fascinating beautiful language it's an incredible and especially the way that it's reflected in the koran you have a relationship to the arabic of the koran absolutely it's the most perfect arabic it's just absolutely

so unique and incredible it's uh the koran is uh looked at as the direct word of god and again people are like oh how do you know this and that it's like it's preserved text and again i'm not a religious scholar i don't know you know i can't speak on this stuff but it just tell you it's the most poetic thing you'll ever listen to and even the meaning and the words behind them are so incredible and it's quite moving and how it's recited itself is kind of a miracle of its own because you have like children who know it completely by heart right so it's reserved by all these what we call hafaz Quran the preservers of the Quran the people who know it completely by heart

it's pretty wild and even of the days of the Prophet to peace be upon him they would they would be so particular they would know how someone is, you know, reciting a particular word or a letter by striking their tongue to their rear left molar, or rear right molar. Like, it was so particular and precise. And that's what I do love about the Arabic language in general is like it's so, it is precise,

and so many words mean different things as well. It's trilateral roots to the language. So you just like could say one thing, but how you say it and with intention and how you compose it can mean an entirely different thing. So it's very fascinating in that way. Can you give us an example? Throw a little Arabic at us.

I'd be talking with you in Arabic, I mean. We're here with Rain Wilson. Here we're just being, we're just sitting. Hey, watch it. And you're having to share it. And it's a bit, and it's a lot of I'm not going to be. I'm not going to share me.

It's not. It's not me. We're just here. We're here. We'll take a shoy of my and this is a bit of a bit of and let's go and Raine Wilson The office

Oh, mashah Allah I'm sitting Myrne Wilson I'm gonna Amory Fakera that I had with Rehn Wilson Oh Masha There's our promo

I said I said what are you do serving me cold coffee Like this? No, we serve hot coffee You know, you give me a little water Nothing to eat. I mean this is ridiculous What kind of place is this? I was like, oh no office but I asked for cold coffee just for the record

I liked ice coffee sorry but I hear the argument about the oh you asked for what's going earlier on you were talking about like you don't even know how to be happy right now you've got personal tragedy in your life there's tragedies going on around the world every time you open up the newspaper

no one opens up a newspaper what am I even talking about opening up a newspaper what are you talking about 95 every time you open a news app on your phone. You know, all they sit there at home and just open up the newspaper.

Just sit there, the paper cuts in there. They got very pepper-rich farm. Yeah, it is all. But just bad news everywhere. You know, one of the, this show is about a spiritual revolution. You know, I'm here to talk to people about, yeah, their artistic experience

and life experience, but it really about, you know, what spiritually grounds them and how we can use spiritual tools to make ourselves better and to make the world a better, place. And you've spoken a lot about about peace, about diversity, about

kind of the struggle and where we need to go. Do you have any thoughts on like, you know, a mohammer version of a spiritual revolution, what that looks like? I think I touched upon a lot of it before, but just to build off of it, I think patience is extremely

important. Having the patience is extremely crucial. Like, it's very, very difficult to like sit in something and feel it completely. And having trust in the divine. Like, I do believe in God, and that doesn't mean this absence of intellect. We were talking about this earlier. So one of the things that comes from our tradition is that, you know, Tyre Camel and believe in God, or it's like, believe in God by Tyre Campbell. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you got to use your intellect as well. It's like, not only just saying,

why is God not doing this? God gave you the tools as well to make things happen, and you will be blessed along your path and what's meant for you is meant for you it'll be for you and no way will it miss you you know and that's like that's been my entire existence in having this patience and every you know at every level from the bottom up and it seems like it's even tougher at this level because you're just trying to like figure things out more it's required uh required me to even dig deeper and to really just be a better version of myself you know mentally physically spiritually and it comes with like doing the work. And that is whether you wake up in the morning

and you just make sure that you have that time with yourself and the divine and you just filter out whatever is going in your heart and you just, whether it's praying, whether it's working out, what are you do being active and making yourself feel better, you know? And that's what I'm in the process of doing. And something that really just like has been hit home, and I mentioned this in my special, is like, you know,

understanding where you come from too. I think a lot of people don't really know where they actually come from their own lineage. And my teacher, I remember sitting down with him. And he goes, name your great-grandfather. I couldn't figure out my grandfather from my father's side. I was embarrassed. And he goes, how easily are you erased?

I was like, my God, this is the lineage that I come from. I can't even name my great-grandfather, my father-side. It's ridiculous. So I had to do some work. He goes, you know, there's a few things you could do to be remembered in this world. Because, number one, contribute something to humanity, whether it be art or be inventive or just something good to humanity.

And two is like essentially live like a saintly existence, which basically impossible. Good luck. Yeah, good luck, exactly. So these are like the buckets to you do that. And then I started thinking about it. I couldn't help but think about Rumi. It was like Rumi has a Twitter account. It was an ex account.

He's been gone over 700 years. He's tweeting from the grave. what a impact that he's made. So those who don't know, yes. Sufi Muslim mystic poet who's very popular on Instagram. Very, very popular on Instagram and Twitter.

And I believe that there's, you can actually, what do they call them in universities like different, I forgot what it's called? Major, you can study Roomy, but they call it, yeah, you can't. Roomy Studies? Yeah, something.

No, no, no, I forgot what it was. Yeah, that's why you shouldn't speak about things you don't know about so I tried you know and sometimes you're out there and you try but really it's like the patience thing you know the patience is just such a huge isn't there another element of patience and I think from looking at this perspective like the world is more divided than ever things may get worse before they get better yeah but trusting that things ultimately will get better I I believe we have to somehow keep hope alive young people have this hope deficit right now or like 40% of

of young people don't believe that things will get better in their lifetime, but I think we have to hold to that possibility. And there's so many different ways to act on that. Yeah. So whether it's telling jokes, you know, whether it's having conversations on a podcast or making television comedy or working in your neighborhood in some way, whether it's demonstrating,

whether it's getting together with like-minded folks, whether it's reaching out with, with great, great kindness, you know, like Stephanie with you and, you know, that. In the end, it's kindness, right? And at some point you have to, like, not only be in, like, your own bubble, but also, like, branch out. And that's the thing that scares me the most, to be honest with you,

that has on my mind the most, is that being able to have conversations with people that you disagree with, you know. We've kind of lost that ability. We've lost that ability. It's either, it's, it's, it's, actually both extremes. Yeah. You know, on both sides.

Yeah. So I kind of don't associate with either. I'm like, hey, I'm in the middle. I want to hear both arguments. Because once you stop having it, that's the biggest problem. And then you do create these, like, fractured communities. This is an absence of kindness. There is no kindness.

This is a tough thing on the political left right now, because it's a very popular mode of being to say, like, if you are denying me, my humanity, and your beliefs, I don't want to engage with you. with you. How and where do you draw that line? That's a tough one. I get where someone might be coming from around that. If someone has said racist stuff in the past, you know, and you're a person of color, you're like, why should I engage with someone who's denies my essential humanness? Yes. But at the same time, you know, how do you walk that walk where you have to continue the dialogue?

Otherwise, we just have like kind of like we have right now. We have these two sides that are, either not talking or shouting at each other. Well, yeah, I'm willing to have a conversation with basically anybody. I don't think that there is, I have a restriction on engaging in a conversation with literally anyone. You know, I don't really feel that I could just be.

Would you be willing to have, completely against you? Would you be willing to have a conversation with an Israeli that deny the humanity of Palestinians or think that they're less than? I have conversations all the time. About this. Because I have one right here.

Yeah, please. Come on in, please. Come on in. Joshua, come on. Yeah, come on, Joshua. Let's do it. All the time, I have so many, you know, friends from, you know, Jewish backgrounds.

Some people who have, like, you know, I've had conversations with people who have, like, very strong Zionist beliefs. It's, yo, I'm going to have a conversation with anybody. I'm not going to shy away of having a conversation. And that's, like, the biggest problem I feel is, like, once you start feeling, a hate toward someone or something like that.

It's just like you can't not have it. I mean, you think about all the prophetic examples. They all had the most difficult. Moses met with the Pharaoh. Like, you have to go. Jesus met with anyone who would talk to him? Anyone. So would Martin Luther King?

So did Gandhi? Yeah. They didn't say, like, screw that. I'm not talking to that person. No, it's important to have dialogue, is what I'm trying to say. Like, I'm not saying, definitely not saying I'm any kind of prophetic existence.

I'm saying that I think it's really, really important not to shy away from having real conversations. And it's okay at the end, like, hey, I don't agree with you to be your way to be mine, but I'm not gonna hurt you and you're not gonna harm me, and you live your life. You're gonna be just fine and happy, and you do whatever you wanna do. I don't care about what you wanna do,

as long as you're not harming anyone, or you're trying to stop anyone from living their full life. It's not your duty to do so. It's not your business to do so. But I'm willing to have the conversation. You never know. what could happen. In the end, they'll walk away. They're going to feel some type of way.

They're like, oh, they're going to think twice. They had an exchange with someone, which they thought they hated, or somebody they hated them, and you're going to walk away a different human being. It's just what's going to happen. So, you know, and then there's certain people on this earth that are going to be just completely closed off, and they don't care what you have to say. They're not going to be open to it, and that's fine. I'm going to protect my heart, protect my mind, and I'm going to have the conversation.

I'm going to engage in it. But if you walk away, still, a half, you know, So I can't change you. You're just an asshole. You got to be able to have conversation to get somewhere. Or else we're screwed. We're totally screwed.

Well, an important ingredient for the spiritual revolution is more and better and deeper and more open conversations even for people whose views we might find abhorrent. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. I think it's, you know, I'm not going to shy away from that conversation. I can still walk away going, you're wrong. Yeah. It's okay to be wrong. It's your business.

I'm not saying, like, you know, it's not okay to be. I mean, like, when was the thing somebody taught me? He says, I'm going to listen to you as if you're wrong with the possibility of being right, you know? Okay. And I think that's where the framing was. I'm trying to recall it exactly, but I think that's what it is. Like, I'm going to listen to you.

I'm going to listen to you that you're wrong with the possibility of being right, and I'm going to speak as if I'm right with the possibility of being wrong. I think that's the whole idea. It's like that's how you engage in this, conversation. Yeah.

Whenever someone he feels superior to the other, that's what the problem is, right? Right. And we're in a world right now where you can't say we're all equal. It's fucking crazy. Yeah. Excuse my cursing, but it's like, yeah, it's just so absurd to think that. You know, like we all, yeah, are human beings on this planet Earth. And, yeah, there's good and evil and that's the balance of this earth.

Like, there is. It's just what it is. It's just this existence, this plane that we're in. I mean, somebody could lose a job like it's evil for them, but this other person gets your job, it's good for them. It's just like, it's like a low-level example, but it's just what it is. My favorite quote, someone recently told me,

just apropos of nothing, is if eight people tell you that you've got a tail, the least you can do is look at your ass in the mirror. I was like, yeah. That's really good. I don't even know what it means. I don't know what it means. But you might have a tale.

No, that's great. No, that's great. That's great. Yeah, you can't just... What are you working on right now? What can people see you in? Where can they find you? I just finished filming Bad Monkey.

Well, I got a few things to do for Apple. Yeah. So that's the new thing I just did with Vince Vaughn, John Malcovic, and a great cast. Yeah. Just hopped on that. Just released Wild World. That's on Netflix and season two of Mo, almost a year from now.

But yeah, I'm cooking up some movies, and I'm excited to go into this new chapter. I'll be on tour as well. You can catch me, you know, writing my new set. that while I build it out before I go on full-flesh tour in the fall. So doing Netflix as a joke in May. I have shows in Nashville. I don't know when this is coming up, but shows in Nashville, probably not within that time frame.

Nice. Yeah, yeah. You can go to, yeah, just usually on my Instagram, I post everything. It's just very simple. At Mo Hammer. Exactly, yeah. There you go.

Easy. Mo, I love you so much. Thank you for coming on the show. Of course. Thank you for having me. It's so good seeing you. Of course, man. Likewise, right.

First man to discover me, Rain Wilson, ladies and gentlemen. Right here. Amen. Love you, brother. The Soul Boom podcast. Subscribe now on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever else you get your stupid podcasts.

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