Soul Boom - Rainn Gets Roasted by Zach Anner

Episode Date: March 3, 2026

Comedian Zach Anner opens up about growing up with cerebral palsy, using comedy to build connection, and navigating panic attacks, loneliness, and the pressure to feel “normal.” He and Rainn reflect on their work together at SoulPancake and explore gratitude, prayer, accessibility, grief, and why love might be the entire point of being here. SPONSORS! 👇 Grow Therapy 👉 growtherapy.com/soulboom ZipRecruiter (try it free!) 👉 ziprecruiter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.com/soulboom Quince 👉 quince.com/soulboom Sundays for Dogs (50% off!) 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠sundaysfordogs.com/soulboom50 (promo code: SOULBOOM50) ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⏯️ SUBSCRIBE!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠👕 MERCH OUT NOW! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📩 SUBSTACK!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  FOLLOW US! IG: 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://instagram.com/soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tiktok.com/@soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  CONTACT US! Sponsor Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Work with Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Send Fan Creations, Questions, Comments: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Executive Produced by: Kartik Chainani Executive Produced by: Ford Bowers, Samah Tokmachi Companion Arts Theme Music by: Marcos Moscat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There are very few people that make me laugh as much as you do to this day. Oh, thank you so much. I wish I could say the same. Get out. Get out. All right. Come on. I'm going.

I'm going. I just needs to start up. I'm stuck. Get out. Okay. Well, somebody's going to need to open this door. Shut it. Open the door, please.

I don't have to find motor skills for this. Roll on out of here. Yeah, whatever. I'm a asshole. I still prefer the British office. Oh, yeah? Me too, actually. Okay, who's gonna push me to Burbank? Go roll into traffic.

I got your spiritual revolution right here. Hey there, it's me, Rain Wilson, and I want to dig into the human experience. I want to have conversations about a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep with our favorite thinkers, friends, and entertainers about life, meaning, and idiocy. Welcome to the soul. Boom podcast.

Can you reach that water? I can reach it, but I'll be honest. It's kind of pushing it. I'll be honest with you, Rain. It's just for show. They said that if I didn't have a water on the table, that you would be like, why doesn't Zach have a water? But I'm not going to, I might drink it if I start smacking, but.

Is there a chance if you were to reach that? That's a long way from your wheel. Let's see, I'm left-handed, so that's one thing. Okay, and then if you were to try and- I feel like it should be a crazy straw scenario. That's exactly what I was gonna say. Like, why don't we have- Super straw?

Why don't we have a crazy straw for Zach? Because this is the, the, this is about learning what accessibility needs are, right? Whereas I need, this is all, this is the podcast. You heard it here, folks. For those differently able, people. We don't say differently abled anymore. Now we just say disabled. We say it at soul boom. Is that for real? Disabled? It goes back and forth. I know you can say the R word now

supposedly because Trump got elected. No, you can't. No, you can't. You can, but you're an asshole. Let's be honest. That's true. And but do you say disabled now? We just say disabled. Yeah. You're okay with that? I think here's my take on it. Differently abled. We all know what it means. Nobody says differently abled when somebody is like, nobody's like Simone Biles is differently abled. It only goes in one direction. Right, but what if you're left-handed? Yes.

And you have full range of motion with your left hand, pretty much. Left arm? Yeah, I think so. This is the one I play the piano with. What if you could, like, if you could bench 300 pounds with just your left arm, then you'd be differently abled. because of your cerebral palsy,

but then your left arm was like you could punch through walls. But you're also assuming that there is something extraordinary about my body, which that's quite an assumption. I think you have an extraordinary body. Thank you. Is this happening right now? This is happening. Are we flirting right now?

What's going on? We went there a little bit. We went there a little bit. Zach, it's so great having you on Soul Boom. It's so wonderful to be here. When this came across my desk like, hey, what about Zach Anner on the shows? I'm fucking A, man.

I can't believe it's been so long. Here's the thing. I'm a little nervous about being on this podcast. Why is that? Because for one thing, I feel like I owe such a debt of gratitude to you for just the things that I am most proud of, in my career you are related to and you were the boss of.

So I just wanted to be able to come in here and just really express just gratitude, just flexing my gratitude muscles here. I don't know that the words that I will be able to utter on this podcast will do it justice, just what you created with SoulPancake and now, I guess the spiritual successor, soul boom, but now you have SoulPancake back, so you could get, you could have both of them now, right? That's right. So for those of you, uh, what we're filling in, uh, I had a company before the Soul Boom

book and podcast called Soul Pancake. And you're right. Soul Boom is the spiritual successor to Soul Pancake, which was much more about uplifting, inspiring content, uh, on the early days of YouTube's. And, uh, Zach was, uh, a frequent guest. and host and personality. Three shows. Three shows.

You have the record. You probably didn't even remember. Well, have a little faith. Have a little faith. And then you had that morning show. Then top of the Monday. Top of the Monday. And then what's earth your while?

Oh, I never saw that one. You never walked to that one. There was a climate change show. We all know that's something you're not interested in. I don't give, I don't believe it in climate change. Here's the deal, Zach. I believe in all the science. Like, I go to the doctor.

I believe in this science. I believe in the science of like street lights. I believe in the science of like photosynthesis. But this chunk of science that has to do with like CO2 and heat trapping gases in the atmosphere causing extreme weather events and heating the planet. I just, I think that's a liberal hoax. So I believe in all the other science. It's just this chunk of science.

I don't believe in. I don't know. I've read the Soul Boom book and your author self would disagree with you, sir. Maybe you're right. I've done my research. Listen. Seems like you've hosted several shows to the contrary. Unless you're just one of those liberal actors that'll, like, that'll play whatever part.

It's all lip service. I was hoping that being a climate change activist would get me more roles, but it hasn't. So I'm going to mix it up. That's really bizarre that it seems like it should, like climate change is all, I watched the Emmys. It was all over the Emmys? Was it really? I didn't watch the Emmys.

No, they didn't. You weren't nominated and didn't win. It's been like 15 years since I was nominated. What did that feel like? Well, it didn't feel good to lose. But, I mean, but they say it was amazing. They say it's an honor just to be nominated. And it's somebody who's never been nominated for anything.

You've never been nominated for anything, like a Webby or anything like that? No, no. What about best-looking disabled person? That, I think I lose that, like, handily to so many hot, disabled people. Really? Yeah. They should have, like, a hot, disabled people calendar. I mean, I've tried to make it.

I do have some sexy photos of me. You're outrageously handsome. Thank you. So are you. But I- You're just saying that. No, I want to. Can we go back?

Can we go back to Soul Pancake for a minute? Okay. So Soul Pancake, we made over 3,000 pieces of video content. We got billions of views. We went for like nine or 10 years. You hosted three shows, but here's the deal. Soul Pancake, you came in expressing your gratitude. Thank you for having me on Soul Pancake, et cetera.

I didn't do shit. I didn't find you. I didn't cast you. I didn't make contracts with you. I didn't help create the shows. It was all Shabnam and Golries. Really? Really, I wanted to thank, I wanted to thank Shab's and Gourries.

Yeah. But you're here, so that's the best I can. But it's because the culture that was set up there and the community that you built, I think it was the first time I really felt part of a community that wasn't necessarily related to my identity as a disabled person. Oh. And to be able to use. You were a creative.

You were a filmmaker and storyteller and comedian. And also, I think it's something that we both understand. I was able to use my perspective as somebody who knew nothing to build bridges and actually build a bridge to understanding and use humor to actually get to some deeper stuff. And there was nothing else like that out there. And just, I remember, like, a conversation that I had with Bayan after have a little faith when I was worried about, you know, like, what if this doesn't do well?

What about the numbers? And he just was like, that's not what's important to us. What's important to us is we make meaningful content. And it really, really stuck with me just to have people who were making things for the sake of making them because it was the right thing to do and it brought joy into the world. And it's really changed the way I think about being a creative

and purpose in general. So thank you so much for everything that you did and are currently doing or didn't do and stole the credit for. Just I, I, I, I, I felt full when I was working on, and there are days now when I'm thinking of things that I want to make and thinking, oh, this would be such a great sole pancake idea. Yeah.

And just to be able to have so many creative people coming together to make some really, really special stuff. Yeah. I miss it. I still miss it. and I hope that at least getting the name back. Well, we got more than the name. We got all the content. You got all the content.

Yeah. I miss the subscribe thing at the end. Subscribe. Yeah. So, again, words aren't enough, but it really just sort of was like a, it really just put into perspective why I wanted to be working on things.

Yeah. The power of internet content and the best of the internet. So thanks. I know that there's no way, you know, this is great, but so pancake. My God. Okay.

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Surely you've listened to a podcast about it. It's a condition. It's a condition that affects motor skills. It's brain damage. And it, for me, it means that I get, to drive around in a wheelchair, very comfortable, love it. Yeah. No notes.

And that I have motor skill issues, can't walk. And where does it come from as genetic? I don't really know. I used to think, and this is always what I was told, is that it was brain damage caused by a lack of oxygen during or slightly after birth. And then I learned from the cerebral palsy foundation, which I am an ambassador for,

that that is in fact not true. Yeah. And then I'm like, well, what the hell is it? Yeah. And the hard thing about cerebral palsy is there's such a, it really runs the gamut in how it presents. You know, there are people who have more trouble talking than I do. There are people who are walking around with cerebral palsy.

And it's just like a catch-all term for things are a little bit not typical. Right, right. And you were born two months early. You were three pounds. You nearly flunked out of kindergarten. And tell me about those early years. What do you remember?

How did you survive that? I remember going at, uh, my mom. mom was the she was my champion and in many ways still is I was the first mainstreamed student which meant that I took typical typical classes in my entire district this was the 80s this was pre-Americans with disabilities act and I went to to I went to normal kindergarten for about a week and then the teacher was like he doesn't belong here to disabled send him somewhere else and so I went to special ed kindergarten and I really

didn't fit in there either and then my mom found a pre-first teacher or called her name was Mrs. Miller and she was just the sweetest old lady and she's like we'll make it work and really for those school years the thing that was most important was finding people who were just willing to make it work even though there was no roadmap. And, you know, I always credit my mom for fighting that battle

because every single person that I've met and collaborated with, I met because she fought that first battle. Wow. Of making sure that I had the chance to be defined by who I wanted to be as a person and not a diagnosis. Oh, wow, that's beautiful.

And all of this and many other stories are in your fabulous book, which has one of the best titles of all time, If at Birth You Don't Succeed by Zach Anner, check it out. It's your whole biography. It's a beautiful book. I read it a long time ago.

Yeah, you blurted it. Well, you said it was great. Who knows if that holds up? It's been years down. I remember reading the PDF on a, on an email before the book came out. But it's beautiful and funny and heartwarming, and you're beautiful and funny and heartwarming.

What was it like growing up? I can imagine like the teenage years under the best of circumstances are so arduous and growing up in a wheelchair. Did you start with like a teeny tiny wheelchair? And then a little bigger wheelchair? I actually came out of the birth canal in a tiny wheelchair. Really, really was.

I must have hurt. That really hurt my mom. Yeah. No, I, honestly, my household was filled with people who had a sense of humor about everything. We would, you know, listen to comedy albums. And my mom told me, like, I asked her, what do I do if I'm bullied? And, you know, when I was going into school, what if somebody makes fun of my chair? And she just told me, well, you tell those people to do.

go to hell. And I didn't, I never did that. I was always more about bringing people in and I knew that if I could make a joke about something that that would sort of build that bridge and that like it would be a lot easier for me if I could get people laughing and make the parts of my disability that even I didn't understand accessible to others and find a way to make jokes. jokes about it. That's so funny because that's something that we absolutely share in common. For me, I found early on, like, I was kind of odd looking. I was kind of a social misfit, total nerd, but it's like, oh, I had this ability to be goofy and funny, tell jokes, do ridiculous things. And boy, if I do it right, the girls laugh, the jocks laugh, the nerds laugh, the

teachers laugh and I gained so much social capital from being funny that I definitely like leaned in I was like okay I'm all in on the funny train yeah and I think that was like finding other funny people was really a gift but I think there may have been a slight difference in the way that we found our tribes or I hate that term never mind cut that but found our people um No, let's pause for a second because I like that you said that because I feel the same way. And I have done the exact same thing. We're talking about like, like tribes. You've got to find your tribe.

And tribe is like, wait a minute. No. Tribes is what we need to get rid of. Yeah. Because tribes are keeping us tribalized and separate. That's what's happening in the world right now. So it's community. Yeah.

Community. There we go. And making our communities bigger because I think, you know, nerds were, there was. Definitive nerds in school, but were you a nerd as well? I wouldn't have thought that, but looking back on it, I did wear sweatpants for a really, really long time. And like at the urinal, just the sweatpants came all the way down. I was never peeing through the fly. So what was, what was that? Tell us more, please, about your urination. Oh, I will. I've got stories as recent as last week. involved piss, so we'll get to it. But I think it was interesting because for a long time, I was sort of running away from the perception of what I thought people were thinking about disability.

Well, rolling away. Yeah, rolling away. I was rolling away very slowly. At two miles an hour. Yeah. No, but I'm sorry, I interrupted. Rolling away from what people. From the perceptions of what I thought people were thinking about me and trying to, like, so I didn't really socialize with many other disabled kids because I wanted to be, quote, normal.

And I spent a lot of my life thinking that way of, even in my life as a writer, people, the compliment that people often pay me is, you're so great, you should be right. writing on a show that doesn't involve disability. Right. And it's like, but wait, that's part of my story. That's part of who I am. If anything, I should be, like, using my experience as a disabled man and putting that into other types of stories and not trying to run from it. So I think, like, I lived my life as a reaction to what I thought other people were thinking

of me for the longest time. And I realize now what a huge thing is. mistake that is because when you can embrace the parts of you that you like like i'm sure being a nerd was difficult because they used to they used to beat up nerds yes and nerds were not cool or or rich or influential in any way shape or form in the 80s none no they just get the shit beat out of them and were mocked and didn't get dates period yeah and it's sort of it was sort of like that for me except nobody would beat me up because that's just something that you don't actively do to the disabled.

People do draw line. People would call me the R word and things like that. And then when South Park started having many disabled characters, they would just shout Timmy at me. But I also, you know, like... Did you like the South Park thing? Or did you feel like it set things back? To be honest.

I really, it was frustrating in the day to day, but as a storyteller and somebody who wanted to see more inclusion, even in high school when that came out, it was like, they're not making fun of disability in a way that isn't inclusive. You know, Timmy was just one of the kids, and they actually dealt with some disability issues I had never seen dealt with on TV before. And then they had Jimmy, who also had CP and was on crutches and a disabled comedian. And I think I really resonated with that because when we're all a lot of, you'll see a lot of disabled comedians making the same jokes to start and getting the same laughs. And that really, that really made me think, oh, these, you know, I do this, oh, I'm a sit-down comic. That joke is the standard one. Sure.

That's the one everyone says to you, hey, you should be a sit-down comic. And they're so proud of themselves for that joke. But, like, just seeing variations of disability represented, and they really did try and include them in some of the mockery, which I think is the best compliment for being on South Park is not that they're going to treat you with kid gloves, but everything is fair game. And that's, that to me seemed like a version of equality that I hadn't seen on TV. Yeah. So, so keep going. How, how did you know that your comedy was working to get you social capital, to help with your mental health, to build

friendships? How did that work out in junior high and high school? High school was the first time I actually felt disabled because I started having panic attacks that were brought on by stomach problems, IBS and stuff. I would always like a social butterfly and then all of a sudden I didn't want to go to school. I didn't want to like socialize because I was so scared of what my body might do. Oh wow. And what right at the time when you're the most self-conscious? Most self-conscious freshman year. You're like, I hope people like me and I'm going to puberty and yeah. Yep. And everything. And, And it was, I remember the, I made it, I missed school, but I made it to the talent show. And I think it was sophomore year.

And I did stand-up comedy at the talent show. And it was probably, if I watched it back now, it would be very cringy. But my bit was to marry a random person from the audience and do the whole wedding. And just like, let's get this over with get it official. I want to get my, you know, my first girlfriend out of the way. Let's make it a marriage. And then my bit ran long because I have ADHD and have no, I have no sense of time whatsoever.

And they came and pulled me off stage. And then my friend Dave Phillips started a chant, Bring back, Zach, bring back Zach. And it was just like, it was so wonderful to hear a whole auditorium of people wanting to, see more of what I had to say because I felt most of the time like I wanted to be invisible, but comedy and being able to make light of something that I was really struggling with, which is, I saw all of my peers, you know, having their first kisses, their first relationships,

they would go to school dances, and I wouldn't. And it just seemed like that part of life was not open to me. Right. And just to know that there was something that I could do to bring people together was pretty, it was, it was restorative and life-changing in a way. Oh, that's beautiful. That's amazing. The darkest moments were probably definitely in high school and not feeling like I could get out of bed or, go to school, it felt like the world was passing me by. And that the things, there's this narrative, especially when I was growing up of

overcoming disability, which I don't actually think is what you need to do. I think you need to embrace it as part of yourself. But I felt like there was no way I would be able to. I just want to stop for a second, Zach, because what you said is, And I know you speak about this a lot, but I think we need to underline this for our listeners and viewers that a disability is not something to overcome, but to embrace as a part of yourself. And that can be used whether you have cerebral palsy or in a wheelchair or not. Like how do we embrace our limitations and kind of harness them? because there's some kind of transformative power there,

no matter what we feel is holding us back. Would you say that's true? I think that is absolutely true. I think there's, it's only a limitation if you're thinking about it in terms of how it affects your ego, right? I think there are certain societal barriers that are put up, But in terms of living your everyday life, it's more about society and less about what's going on inside of you. But if you're feeling like this is the thing that I can't get past, then it's a disability. People won't necessarily agree with me.

But I think my actual disability is not cerebral palsy. It's ADHD. That's the tougher one to get over. Wow. Wait, you have CP. ADHD. I got all the letters. And ADHD. That's a lot of letters.

I got, yeah. That's the equivalent of like seven different PhDs. I got half the alphabet. But you know what you don't have? A BA. I don't. From nowhere. Just, uh, I mean, is there a Baha high school?

They feel like... Well, there's got to be some... There's got to be one. Some Baha'i school that feels sorry for you. It gives you a degree. Rockingroll. High school. They're going to roll by high school.

But I cut you off. I mean, those are beautiful words to live by, but tell us more about this struggle with loneliness and how you got out of it. When I was a kid, you know, we were all sort of moving along at the same thing, learning the same things. I was going to physical therapy and occupational therapy and taken out of class. But I was, you know, doing, you know, learning the same things every kid my age was learning. and then there were the social pieces and I was always a social kid and there were even my best friends they started you know laughing me socially like having experiences that I just wasn't having you know going to dances and you know having first kisses and things like that and all of a sudden

like even with my peers it felt like there were conversations that I was just not brought in on and the tone of voice would change when I would talk about, you know, wanting to date and wanting to, you know, like, live on my own because the expectation or the thought was we don't know how he's going to do that. We love Zach, but we just don't know how. And like, and the hardest part, the loneliest part for me was, was just how, you know, I could change the vibe in in a friend's circle they would be talking about you know like doing fun things on the weekend or like you know hooking up or whatever it was and then i would come in and like not have

anything to add to the conversation and you know the the 40-year-old virgin did not feel like a comedy to me really was like how close am i going to get to what they thought was the funniest thing that it would be like this is a I'm I'm 10 years away from being the movie that people thought was so ridiculous and so it was just like the loneliness came because I was like there are parts of the human experience and that I am going to miss out on but what I realized when I started dating and you know eventually found a partner is that I had been looking to check a box and I hadn't really been looking for a human being and so I had missed out on meaningful relationships because I had put on them the expectation of

if they're not if they're not romance or something then it's not worth it I had missed out on amazing people simply because I was a like, oh, if she doesn't want to date me, she's shallow or whatever. And it's not, it's not necessarily speaking to loneliness in general, but if I could say one thing to young men who, you know, like, just be the most interesting version of yourself and the most open version of yourself and be open to all sorts of relationships and friendships and don't measure yourself by anyone else. Because if you start closing down,

if you start getting cynical, that's what makes it harder. You can't be your best self if you say every relationship has to be one thing or the other. Right. Does that make sense? I know it's not really about loneliness, but the most lonely I've ever felt

is feeling like I would never find a partner. But the only way that I was able to find one was by first accepting one, I'm enough. I'm okay if this doesn't happen. And I'm okay with being who I am and accepting what people bring into my life and not trying to turn it into something else. I think that's beautifully said. Hey, folks, you know I'm a fan of keeping things simple and intentional. And that applies to my closet, too. A great wardrobe isn't about having more.

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They should be a cerebral palsy workout. I mean, we could do a workout Wednesday, sitting. Yeah, just sitting and twitching. I mean, I cannot recommend cerebral palsy enough. If you don't have it already, go get it. Look into it. Oh, my God, that's so good. We're going to get so canceled.

but you know what i don't they i don't think you're gonna get canceled this is a podcast no like i know they say anything on podcast yeah you can say whatever you want but it is a spirituality and mental health podcast oh speaking of that you were talking about the panic attacks you had in high school and i do want to talk a little bit more about mental health like i imagine that sometimes uh for someone in your situation with your specific set of disabilities that uh mental health can be overlooked looked because it's your physical issues that people are addressing and that your doctors are addressing and your health professionals and your parents and relatives and friends. But like, how is Zach Anner's heart? How is your, how is your soul? How is your internal sense of balance,

your relationship to yourself? Can you talk us a little bit through that as a teenager and young adult absolutely well um at as a teenager i felt like my self was being stifled by my body constantly betrayed and that the my body and my spirit were two disparate things and if only my body was different i would have a different path and now it feels like this body is the perfect body for me. I wouldn't change it. It's given me so many outlets and opportunities for joy and expressing joy. And it's like I was given the gift of of not being able to hide one of the things that I would be most insecure about. So with that, like, out of the way of there's no getting around this once I had some self-confidence in my own soul

like just realizing that this body like anything else is a tool to a vessel for a purpose. Wow, I love that. You saw your, how did you make that transition? Because that's, isn't that a resistance and an acceptance issue? Like I have this resistance like, God, I wish my body could be different. I wish it could be different. I wish it could be different. And then kind of like, well, I've got to make the best with what I've got. And then it's kind of like actually embracing the opportunities that your disability has brought you.

I mean, it's opened as many doors, more doors than it's closed. To be honest, the physical disability. I think. But how do you make that shift? How I made the shift, I think, was. And when did it happen? it's still happening it's a continuing process of just the i think in soul boom you call it radical acceptance of i wouldn't want to miss out on experiencing anything because of how i felt about my body or

how i felt being perceived that was a big change for me and like in terms of um When it started happening, honestly, in college, college was huge for me because I found people there that really saw me. And my first... This was at Buffalo? No, at the University of Texas at Austin. Okay. See, my dad had taken us to the South by Southwest Film Festival. And this was during the time right after I had dropped out of high school and felt like,

I might not have a place in the world or anywhere to go. And Austin, the Keep Austin weird slogan that they have, and seeing so many movies that were the types of stories, the little stories, the little human stories from the Duplas brothers and those early mumble core filmmakers was so inspiring to me. The big chair, the cushy chair. The Puffy chair.

I love that movie. It was that movie. I saw the premiere of that movie, and it was shot on my dad's video camera, or like the same camera that he had. Yeah. And just seeing that they could make a movie that was so funny and just like so tight and human, it was like, oh, maybe there is a place for me in filmmaking where I can, you know, I may not be able to be a great director or something.

but I can be a storyteller. And I think that's, that was the gift is when we went to, okay, I'll get a little blue, but when we went to the South by South West Film Festival, it was, I was so scared because I didn't want to, I didn't want to travel across the country and then, like, have my stomach act up and not be able to find a bathroom. But my dad, he was always building like adaptive stuff from my chair. He built like a swing around bag for the back of my chair and like dress shoes that I could put on independently.

But for this, he built a monopod that he put on my chair that could function as a camera dolly. And he said, well, don't worry about getting sick. You can just film a travel log about finding accessible bathrooms in Austin. in. So I filmed bathroom confessionals whenever I would have to leave a movie to spend like

45 minutes in the bathroom of like this is what the bathroom is like in the Stephen F. Austin Hotel or in the Driscoe. And just being able to make something positive out of my problem rather than trying to hide from it

just was something that made me be a much more resilient narrator of my own life story. That's beautiful. And then you started, do you want to go to film school? I did. Yeah.

I did, and I did not graduate. Okay, what happened? Well, loser. Yeah, thanks. I'm hoping, I was really hoping for one of those honorary degrees when the Oprah stuff happened. I'm like, if anything is going to do, like push this over the edge, it'll be fine. But I...

We'll get you that honorary degree. If you're watching out there, if there's any half-rate, two-bit community college film school program, that wants to throw this sucker up. Doesn't even have to be accredited. I just want something to hang on the wall. Just anything. But I took every course that would help me be a better filmmaker and a better storyteller. and I took producing courses where I learned to make treatments for what I made.

The first thing I made was a treatment for a travel show about traveling with a disability because my dad had always wanted me to make that show. And then once I was done with all of those courses, I just, instead of taking Spanish, I was just like, a degree is not going to help me with a filmmaking career. And I couldn't really figure out how to do Spanish

because I had to dictate everything on tests to somebody who wasn't a Spanish speaker. And like, I just couldn't. I'm like eight credits away. So I have like 140 credits. What college is it? UT Austin. Well, can you just give him his degree?

Can I just have it? Come on. I mean, it's been 20 years. Are people really going to come after you if you just give it to me? But I think it was a really important lesson for me of learning the things that I desperately wanted to know that I could only learn there. You know, those things that I learned there, even though I didn't come away with the piece of paper, the degree. They really, really set me up for a successful career. And I think it really just...

But what I'm hearing is that what limited you, where you felt embarrassment, where you felt resistance, that by kind of owning those qualities, leaning into them, embracing them, that new horizons opened up for you. Absolutely. I mean, it kind of reminds me of Luke Skywalker

in the episode five, the Empire Strikes Back, when he has to face his fears. Like he goes in Yoda's world and then he goes like under the tree and there's like that drug trip thing of like Darth Vader and stuff like that. You had to like...

And then he films that little vlog of him on the toilet. Yeah. Yeah. Same. Yeah. Luke Skywalker looking for bathrooms for Jedi's. Embarrassment is, only embarrassing until you face it and then it's fine. That's what I've found 99% of the time.

Just being able to be in control of what this part of your story means to you. Yeah. You know, and I realize that my story is a triumphant comedy of errors, right? So as long as I, like, have control of the genre of my story, what happens and it is fine. Right. Right. Yeah, that's amazing. Where are you at with your personal faith right now? How's your relationship with God? And then we can get to that big question about God and suffering. Was there ever any anger, resentment there, the big guy for putting you in this body? I didn't, okay. I didn't have any anger from what I remember at God for being disabled. I was angry in general sometimes about not being able to do the things that my peers were doing or not feeling like there was a path for me to succeed because I hadn't seen it. Now my relationship with God or the creator or whatever the force is,

not the one from Star Wars, or although it could be. Yeah, it could be. But I would say the force from Star Wars is probably a closer approximation to God than any kind of humanized persona of some kind of dude with a beard who's watching us like Santa Claus. Yeah. I mean, I mean, if Santa, if someone came in here and they said, don't believe in God, Santa's the man, though. How would you handle that? I'm all in. You're all in.

I think I That's the one time I remember crying as a child because I asked I didn't ask Santa for the ability to walk I asked Santa for the ability to fly

and I thought for sure he can make those reindeer fly he can make Zach Ann or fly I didn't want what everyone else had I wanted one better so that was sort of my idea around disability is like, I don't want to be normal. I want to be extraordinary. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Our Santa, who art in heaven, how it be thy name.

That sounds great. That actually fits. It kind of rolls. Right. It kind of flows. So I think in terms of my relationship with God and my body now, I just have so much gratitude. I lost my father two years ago, and I know you lost yours recently. And I think, like, I am so aware of how quickly the time will go. So I am grateful for every moment that I have on this earth. And in terms of my relationship to God, the older I get, the more things, that I, like, my existence, I hope, becomes just all gratitude.

Like, my, my dad had Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, so this guy who had spent his entire life making sure that I never felt disabled, got a double whammy of disability. Wow. Whenever I would ask him how he was doing, like, because I, I remember, really wanted to you know in those last few years I was always trying to connect with him and like

I wanted to understand what his perception of he was you know a sailor he was like a biker he was very active and then all of a sudden he wasn't able to be at all yeah and when I would you know try to have a heart to heart with him and ask how he was doing he would just go still having fun and that's that was as deep as it got but you know i i tend to believe he could have become surly and resentful and shut down but he always tried to find the positive and there was there was a time even like i'm i'm somebody who is terrible with with money whenever i had money i spent it on on my friends and experiences because i'm like i'll make the memories and then seeing his memories stolen from him.

It's like, oh, even that can go. And at the end of his life, he was hospitalized after, I don't think it was a stroke, but it was a medical event. And he was put into a rehab center, which was also like a nursing home. And I wasn't in control of his care, but somehow his brain got it mixed up. and he thought that I had put him in prison. And that was really, that was really difficult for me to take because it's like, I want you out of here,

but he thought that I had done something to him. But the greatest gift, even from that horrible thing, was when he would like tell me to get him out of that place, he would always preface it with, I love you, just know that I love you. Oh. And I love you, but give me the fuck out of here. Why did you put me in this?

Yeah. And I told my brother, I was like, we have to, can we please, tell him a story that I've, like, I've figured out a jail break so that we can get him out like when he was ready to come out. But it was like if I, in the final years of my dad, dad's life it was difficult not to see it as a tragedy because so much of what made him him was stolen from him yeah and then i realized when he told me that when he was saying i love you but this is really difficult i i i was like well if if this happens to me if this you know because it's genetic if any of these things happen to me let me live

a life so that at the end of it, love is all that's left, right? I think that's what I want to do now. It's like I can't really control some of those things and if they'll happen to me. But if I can live my life fostering connection and community so that when my time comes, what's on my mind is the people that I love and I can express that to them in whatever way I can, then that's a good life. Yeah. And I don't know how that relates to God, but it feels like it does. It feels like love is the point. Love is the point and God is love.

You know, the hippies and the early Christians were right in that God is love. So if you're just living in gratitude and love and leaving love, you know, when you evaporate, you know that's it so that's what i'm aiming for to evaporate into love dust and then whoever wants it can take my chair because i don't think i'm taking it with me how much can you get for one of those things not as much as you would think that that looks to me as like it's 1200 bucks it's like 35 grand when you get it new does it have a jet pack on it i mean every piece of medical equipment is is uh marked up we we won't get into insurance on this spirit spirituality podcast.

Why don't you do a startup of, you know, affordable motorized chairs? Well, I am not a businessman. I am a person with ADHD who struggles to get anywhere on time. So maybe I'm not the one for that, but somebody should do it. Fair enough. Fair enough.

Do you ever pray? I... It's okay to say no. I'm thinking about it because I think, even in the like i learned from you that service is prayer so i'll say that i don't if anything it's a prayer of gratitude i don't i don't ask for things and i don't it's strange as i've gotten older i want less and less but that i quote in soul boom uh anne lamott who did a terrific episode with us about her book, Help Thanks, Wow.

So help is one prayer. Thanks is another prayer and wow is another. So you say some thank you prayers to the universe. And some wow prayers constantly. Okay. So what does a thank you prayer or a wow prayer look like from your heart? I honestly, I've had days where I've woken up just in awe and gratitude of indoor plumbing. And you laugh, but so much of the world still doesn't have that.

And it just makes life so much simpler. I'm living in a place where I, 10 years ago, I couldn't, like, I could never figure out how to read a book, right? And now I have an iPad where I can, I listen to the Soul Boom book on audio while watching the ebook. And it highlighted all the words as you were saying them. Oh, wow. And it was, just having those tools of connection and that beautiful,

like, there's so much that you can be rightfully cynical about, but I wouldn't want to live in any other time. This is the, the, this is the best time to be a disabled man, and it's never lost on me that, like, even 20 years ago, I'm so, I say prayers of gratitude for DoorDash. Like, I couldn't. But that makes my life so much easier, so much better. And I realize that I have had so much privilege and opportunity in my life that the disability

is not the issue anymore. It's, it's, and it's there's anything you want to do you can do now. Yeah. Technology is so wondrous to me. And I know it's capitalism. in one of the seven, seven pandemics of the soul? Is that what it is?

I didn't say capitalism necessarily. I would say materialism, maybe. Well, that's maybe that's the one that I'm still struggling with is I love stuff. You love stuff. You love candy and DoorDash. Oh, yeah. And indoor plumbing.

Well, and bidet's. And bidet. My goodness. There's a list. What else can you add to that list? I love. Well, I love making morning coffee. Right.

How does that work with your IBS? For years, well, it moves things along really quick. I'll say. And then, you know, got the bidet, so everything's good. Yeah. But I love doing it for my wife in the morning. I make coffee for my wife in the morning, too. It's so nice to be able.

So much of my life. How do you not spill it rolling back into the bedroom with the coffee? Oh, well, we have a little money. that have caps on them. Oh, again, something to be thankful for. So, mugs with friends. I am so grateful to be able to give anything back because for years I thought I'm just the one who receives.

Right, help and aid and, yeah. And so to be able to now have a career where I can inspire other people with disabilities, I don't care about inspiring you, but other people, with disabilities that there are there's possible there are possibilities to live the life that you want um and that that could be your next book role model but get it r o l role model yeah well we'll work we'll workshop we'll work on it it's a start um hey there's something else i wanted to ask you know you

you've said that you hate being called inspirational but you know just because you have CP and you're in a wheelchair and whatnot. But you're doing such cool things. What would you want people to call you, if not inspirational? Zach. Okay. No, I think, honestly, I'm okay with being inspirational. I'm just not okay with being inspirational for existing.

I think one of the things that I bring up when I'm talking to different groups is when Oprah announced that she was, was giving me my travel show. One of the things that she mentioned was just the courage that it took for me to send in an audition video. But, you know, doing something that anybody would want doesn't take courage. Like, that was not courage.

If anything, I had that opportunity based on other people's courage. The lineage of advocates and people who actually fought for my basic human rights so that I could be on that stage and have a place on that stage. But I think there is this misconception that people see me as courageous or inspiring simply because I'm living my best life in what they might consider to be their worst-case scenario. But I have to tell you this. Like, I've had so many opportunities and so much privilege.

And I'm now more aware of that than ever. And that not everybody with disabilities, not every disabled person gets the chances I've had. It's a real anomaly. So being able to use my voice to not just tell my own story, but also say, like, for people who don't have, the voice and the platform I've had, like, the opportunity to pursue the dream and those human rights so that the everyday hassle of disability doesn't get in the way. That's what we're fighting

for. So you die, you go to heaven, you're a puff cloud of love dust and... That really just sounds like it could be a spinal tap song, doesn't it? Puff Glad of Love Dust. Then you get to the other side and then God says, okay, we're going to improve accessibility around here. What's the first order of business? I feel like it's not improving. If heaven isn't accessible, then I don't want to be there.

Okay. Okay, but on planet Earth. But on planet Earth, I think it really is changing the mindset about disability, because oftentimes with like building ramps and stuff, it's like, oh, we're making things accessible for disabled people. Aren't we great? When really, you're making things accessible for everybody so you don't miss out on the amazing things that disabled people are bringing to the table and the conversation, right? So I think changing that mindset and really, I'm a lot of, saying it's not us and then it's all us.

It's like we're bringing, we're all bringing unique and beautiful things to the table. So we should all be there and how do we make that happen rather than total inclusion. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have disabled role models that you look up to? I think of like Stephen Hawking or FDR or, you know, anyone else that

Honestly There's a few Judy Human Who you may know she was Instrumental in getting the Americans with Disabilities Act passed She did the 504 sit-in in San Francisco Oh wow

With 28 days occupying a federal building She's a huge inspiration to me Beautiful And Helzukas Was also in that movie He had cerebral palsy. One of the cool things is like, they're making a movie about that movement now over at Apple,

and they wanted me to audition for hell. And I did research on him. He was mostly nonverbal, and I was like, I don't think I should play this part, because I think this guy would be pissed off that somebody who can speak so freely is taking a part. apart from a disabled actor and being able to learn about him

so that I can celebrate what he did, but also not ruin his movie is part of my spiritual growth, I think. I'm just the worst actor in the world brain. You are? Do you acting lessons? Yeah, I'll give you acting lessons. I just can't, as soon as the words come out of my mouth,

it's like, I can't do it. Acting with rain. Okay, here we go. First scene, you're an airline pilot. You're coming out of the cockpit to make an announcement to everyone on the airplane that there is a, there's a gecko that got loose on the plane and that it's totally harmless. So your lines are, excuse me, ladies and gentlemen, may I have your attention? I wanted to let you know there's a gecko loose on the plane, but it's totally harmless.

Let's see what you do with that. Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. I just wanted to let you know. You know what? You know what? I'm going to stop you right there. You're right. You're the worst doctor I've ever seen.

I'm the worst. You're unredeemable and untrainable. I can't do it. You're fired. But I feel like that's part of knowing where my play. You, I mean, I just don't have it. I don't have it. Oh, you're the worst.

What do you up to now? How can people find out more about you? Are you performing? Are you making videos podcasts? Are you writing? What are you up to? I'm on a trivia podcast called Answer for it, hosted by the great Elise Willems, who is one of my, like, she's one of the friends. Her and her husband James are on the podcast, and they are the friends that you hang out with

when you don't want to hang out with anyone else. Like you're having a terrible day, but you're like, they're not going to change the vibe. They're not going to try and cheer me up. They're just going to come and be here. That's great. What's it called again? It's called Answer for it. It's a trivia pod.

No, it's a comedy podcast disguised as a trivia podcast. So you will learn nothing. So if you're tired of growing spiritually, head on over to answer for it. Zach, truly, you make the world such a better place. And you have, since we first met you good. 16 years ago. That's crazy. And I just think that I'm sorry, but your story is inspiring.

And your storytelling and your humor and you, there are very few people that make me laugh as much as you do to this day. Oh. I love having you on Soul Boone. I wish I could say the same. Get out. Get out. All right.

Come on. I'm going. I'm going, it just needs to start up. Can't wait for Co3, by the way. I'm stuck. Get out. Okay, well, somebody's going to need to open this door. This isn't ADA compliant.

Out. Shut it. Open the door, please. I don't have to find motor skills for this. Seriously? I don't have to find motor skills to be, to storm out. Roll on out of here. Yeah, whatever, asshole.

I still prefer the British office. Oh, you? Yeah? Me too, actually. Okay, who's going to push me to Burbank? Go roll into traffic. I got your spiritual revolution right here. The Soul Boom Podcast.

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