Soul Boom - Reflecting w/ Bobby Lee, Trisha Paytas, Rick Glassman, Ed Helms, Angela Kinsey + More!

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

Celebrating 2 years of Soul Boom with favorite guests Alex O'Connor, Dr. Lisa Miller, Rick Glassman, Britt Hartley, Sara Kuburic, Trisha Paytas, Bobby Lee, Jeff Kober, Dr. Joe Dispenza, Ed Helms + Angela Kinsey. SPONSORS! 👇 Proton 👉 (protect your privacy for FREE!) ⁠⁠⁠https://proton.me/soulboom Nutrafol 👉 (promo code: SOULBOOM) nutrafol.com Quince 👉 (FREE shipping + 365 day returns!) quince.com/soulboom Cozy Earth⁠⁠ 👉 (CODE: SOULBOOM for up to 20% OFF!) cozyearth.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⏯️ SUBSCRIBE!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠👕 MERCH OUT NOW! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📩 SUBSTACK!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  FOLLOW US! IG: 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://instagram.com/soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tiktok.com/@soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  CONTACT US! Sponsor Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Work with Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Send Fan Creations, Questions, Comments: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Executive Produced by: Kartik Chainani Executive Produced by: Ford Bowers, Samah Tokmachi Companion Arts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Where are my gloves? Come on, heat. Any day now? Winter is hard, but your groceries don't have to be. This winter, stay warm. Tap the banner to order your groceries online at voila.ca. Enjoy in-store prices without leaving your home. You'll find the same regular prices online as in-store.

Many promotions are available both in-store and online, though some may vary. Hey folks, two years ago, we launched Soul Boom with a very simple idea. Let's dig deep into life, into meaning, into spirituality, into idiocy, life's biggest possible questions. What does it mean to live with purpose? How do we grow spiritually in a chaotic world? How do we become more compassionate, curious, and awake as human beings? And since then, Soul Boom has grown into something really special.

And honestly, that's because of you. Thank you. everyone, anyone who has listened, watched, shared conversations with friends, left comments, sent messages, or just quietly reflected on the conversations in your own life. Thank you, truly. Thank you so much. This community exists because of your curiosity and openness to exploring these deeper questions. And so for our two-year anniversary, we wanted to celebrate with you and with some of our favorite guests from the show over the last two years. In the spirit of of self-reflection, let's look back on the wisdom, laughter, and powerful reflections we've

gained from the incredible guests. Some of your favorites, some of my favorites, but probably mostly the favorites of my insubordinate producer. Idiot. Oh, and by the way, if you've been enjoying the show, the best way to help us keep growing in this community is very simple. First of all, buy our products from our sponsors. Leave us a review on your podcast. podcast app of choice. Comment on the episode down below on a moment that moved you. Share the episode and or hit subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next. Thank you so much. Thanks for being a part of this journey. Any one of those things would absolutely delight me, I promise you. So let us revisit some of the most powerful and soulful moments over the last two years from Soul Boom. Enjoy the show.

Hey there. It's me, Rain Wilson. And I want to dig into the human experience. I want to have conversations about a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep with our favorite thinkers, friends, and entertainers about life, meaning, and idiocy. Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast. A quick shout out to our sponsors. For Proton, go to proton.m.m.m. to take control of your private and digital life. For a limited time, Neutrofall is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit NutraFall.com.

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What is the best argument you've ever heard in your infinite number of debates, both online and in person, for the existence of God? There are so many. I think there's even an argument for the existence of God that can be made just from the number of arguments of the existence of God. The fact that there's an argument from beauty, an argument from contingency, from ontology, from maths, from like any way you look, there's an argument for God. So you can always make an argument for God's existence from the sheer number of arguments for God's existence.

Haven't heard that before. That's great. Depends what you mean. My favorite for a while has been the so-called ontological argument where you sort of think God into existence. I think it's quite fun. You can just do it from an armchair. It doesn't require any observation. I mean, that's quite fun. I mean, it goes back to St. Anselm, who is praying. He's writing down this prayer. And he sort of challenges you in a way. He says, can you conceive the greatest concealing? Just think of the greatest conceivable being. So whatever qualities it has, power, goodness, all this kind of stuff, just turn it up to the maximal conceivable amount, right? And you got it in your head, you're picturing, you're thinking of just the greatest conceivable way?

Does that being exist in reality? Here's the problem. If you say no, then you're not doing what I asked you to because you can conceive of a being. But isn't that the limitation of the mind? I mean, we talked about this in terms of the Baha'i faith, about God being the unknowable essence and that men have created a a god in their minds that they falsely worship, right? But we're not talking about God. We're just talking about the greatest conceivable being. Okay.

Which by definition, you can conceive it. You just go to the end of your conceivability. Okay. Okay. And sounds like you can conceive of that being existing just in your mind or existing in your mind and also in reality. So if the thing you're picturing is something like a really powerful, really loving, really, you know, great being, it kind of approximates what people call God.

You can imagine that, either just existing in your mind as you're thinking about it, or maybe it exists in your mind, but it also exists in reality. But if it exists in reality and the mind, then it's greater. It's got more existence, right? And so when you're just asked to conceive of the greatest conceivable being, if you're not automatically thinking of a being that exists in reality, then you're not thinking of the greatest conceivable being. But because you can think of the greatest conceivable being by definition,

you're automatically thinking of a being that exists in reality. Therefore, this God must exist in reality. It's my favorite because it sounds a bit stupid. Even said, you're not buying it. He said, what about the greatest conceivable unicorn? This is the greatest objection to Anselm's people say, oh, well, you're just thinking God into existence, because what about the greatest conceivable unicorn?

Like, okay, but what you've just done is limited your scope. Because I asked you to imagine... This is the greatest conceivable unicorn right here. I was like, okay, imagine the greatest conceivable thing, right? And I'm like, that thing must exist in reality. Okay, well, the greatest conceivable unicorn has limited our scope. There could be a unicorn that you're imagining that that's greater than another unicorn you're imagining, right? Okay, we can make that unicorn a better unicorn, like giving it a sharper horn and a more beautiful mane or whatever.

But like, even if we imagine the greatest conceivable unicorn, we can make that unicorn a greater conceivable thing by giving it even more qualities. Well, let's make that unicorn all-powerful. Telepathic. Yeah. It doesn't make it a better unicorn, but it makes it a better thing. And so, like, the question is, does the unicorn existing in reality make it a better unicorn than just existing in the mind? And it seems like kind of not really, because the things that make a unicorn great are things

like a nice mane, a pointy horn and stuff. And the one in your head has all of those things. It has all of the things that are the great making properties of a unicorn. It's all in the one that you're thinking of. And if it existed in reality, I don't know if that is a better great-making property of a unicorn, right? Whereas if you're asking about the greatest conceivable thing, then you're maximizing all the properties, not just the unicorn-making properties, but all properties I think can have, including levels of existence. It's a bit much. I sort of hesitate to bring it up because it is my favorite, but it's a bit difficult.

But let's continue on that, because what comes to my mind, and we discussed this when I was on your point, pod is I tried to be an atheist. Yeah. And I really spent a good couple years at least just really trying to exist in a world that inherently didn't have any meaning to it or didn't have any kind of transcendent power beyond what could be kind of determined through scientific diagnosis. And it just didn't add up to me. It didn't make sense to me. It didn't work for me. It just didn't add up. I mean, I guess what's the famous watch on the beach analogy of God? Yeah, the teleological argument. Yes, that you, if you're walking along a beach and you see a perfectly functioning Swiss watch, you're not going to go, oh, wow, all of these elements just fell together here

on this beach and created this beautiful, perfect watch that's incredibly, you'd be like, there's someone made the watch. When I deeply imagine a three-dimensional universe made of, you know, energy, but matter and atoms and dark matter and there was a big bang and there's, there's galaxies, and that it just happened, it just existed, it just sprang into existence and that there are physical laws. And then somehow out of that chemistry became biology and creatures were created and there was paramecium and then there was, you know, little amoebas and and whatnot, and then they evolved into creatures and somehow we have a creature and we have a large consciousness and we're having this conversation of this podcast. When I think of the totality of that,

without any kind of greater power or energy, it doesn't make sense to me, not just on a cognitive level. It just doesn't make sense in my heart. It doesn't make sense in my life experience. When I picture all of that with some kind of greater unknowable energy beyond time and space, coursing through it, it makes total sense to me. So does that go hand in hand with what you're talking about, about a conception of God? Because you can say, try and conceive of a universe without anything other than stuff and the properties that govern that stuff. There are two things to say here.

One is that, like, can we understand how things like emergent conscious experience just appear in this universe if there's no God? but also can we understand how there's like complexity without some kind of creator? On the first point, I saw a video the other day of like a CPU and a computer, this tiny little microchip zoomed in on a microscope, and it's incredible. I mean, they are so tiny and just packed with little electronic functions. And I genuinely just don't understand how computers work. I do not understand how people get a bunch of metal and coffee.

and stuff like this, and arrange it in a particular way, and you're able to sort of produce, like, something that's something... Yeah, YouTube channel. Like, like, like, all of this is just because people have put atoms in the right order doing things that now people can, like, hear the words that we're saying... Instead of a table or a shoe, it's a computer. And I'm like, that is an unfathomable mystery to me. Like, am I, like, if I saw a computer for the first time and it was, I was playing chess

with it and it was talking back to me and it was connected to the internet and it allowed me to speak to my mother halfway across the globe or something. I said, what on earth is this? Like if you showed it to someone 200 years ago, what is this magic? What is this? What is this? Sorcery. And you said, oh, it's just made out of like, you know, metal and zeros and ones. They would literally just not believe you. They would like that, I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make sense. But the computer is in fact reducible for those metal objects just clanging into each other and producing this.

Or does the magnitude more confusing and amazing thing? But there weren't a bunch of molecules in a shoebox and you shook them up. No. So it's like monkeys writing Shakespeare and then you pull it out and there's a laptop. By the way, they've actually done that research. Somebody put some monkeys in a room with a typewriter.

It turns out that they don't type randomly. They had like a fondness for the letter F or something. So you probably wouldn't get Shakespeare even with no amount of time. But that's cute. Like, yeah, so the other problem. So firstly, like, can this all be reducible to the material? I struggle with that. I think that would be incredible if it was the case.

But I think it's incredible to imagine the computers can do that, but we know that they do. The other question then is where does that complexity come from? No matter whether you can create these incredible emergent things, why is there that complexity? Who put it that way? And of course, the problem with the watch analogy is that we don't believe that complexity, like biological complexity, just came about, which popped into existence. we believe that it evolved through natural selection. And so it would be as if you saw this watch

that was incredibly complex. And then you discovered billions of years, billions of years of watches which somehow were able to reproduce themselves. And every time they reproduced, they had slight differences. Sometimes they ran a little faster, sometimes a little slower.

And for some reason, whichever ones were closer to accurately recording the time, were more likely to keep reproducing. Yes, but if there's, That would sort of do away with the mystery of it. But if there's also the law of second law of thermodynamics that says that everything is going to be falling apart, why is there an impetus towards life and ever increasing complexity? Because that applies in a closed system.

And of course, we're constantly getting extra energy from outside of the earth. We get it from the sun. So eventually this will all have to come to an end and we'll sort of die in a heat death. But for now, like entropy can, entropy can go in the wrong direction in isolated pockets. And that's something like what's happening on this podcast. But it can't go on forever is probably, probably the point. But I don't want to just dismiss it because it is a powerful consideration.

Why is there something rather than nothing? How do we explain this complexity? We can explain the complexity of biological organisms, but we can't explain the complexity of the fine-tuning of the universe, those constants. That's something that's outside of our purview, you know. and that's still a mystery, but I would just remind people to keep in mind that there can be things which are inconceivable and yet are the case, like the reducibility of computers for the person

500 years ago. They literally just wouldn't be able to comprehend what you're talking about. Because even to be able to organize like metallic objects on that microscopic level, for any reason would have been impossible to them, let alone doing it in such a way that brings about a perfect representation of somebody across the globe who can then talk back to you. They just would not believe you. They would not believe you. And yet, it can be done. There are greater things in heaven and earth than I dreamt of in your philosophy, you know.

Which would always consistently point me toward the divine. But what would it take for you to become a theist? Would it take increased understanding? would it be an argument? Would it be some kind of scientific proof, you know, on some kind of, you know, molecular level or some kind of string theory or unified theory or something like that, you know, being proved that kind of has a light bulb go off for you? Or would it be some kind of lived experience, some kind of transcendent experience that you had with either psychedelics or falling in love or through tragedy or a vision of, um,

Or would it take some combination of all of those? Or could it ever, ever possibly happen to you or someone like you? I think it would be the second. I think it would be an experience for a few reasons. The first is that I think that the most plausible of traditional religions is probably a form of Christianity. Because I think it has the best historical evidence, especially if you don't need to swallow the idea that Jesus is God.

he's just like, all this kind of stuff. I think that's kind of plausible. And within Christianity, it's quite clear that the way that people come to God is through experience. Why Christianity over Islam? I think it has better historical case for the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus,

both of which Islam denies. So you would need a miracle, like a resurrection, to kind of prove to you the divine truth of Christianity? No, I think that if the resurrection of Jesus happened as it was recorded, that would be a pretty good indication that there's something really special about this Jesus guy, and we should be taking what he says very seriously. Like, Muslims will say the same thing

that Jesus is a very serious guy who needs to be taken seriously, but they don't believe he was crucified. So if we knew that he was crucified and resurrected, we'd know we'd need to pay attention to him and in a way that Muslims have misunderstood because they don't believe in that. Of course, I don't believe that Jesus did rise from the dead.

I think that there's better evidence for that as a historical case for this, like, worldly religion than there is for other world religions. I might be wrong about that, But I do think personal experience is the way to bring it about. Why do so many religious people do so many horrific things? Beautiful, because every single one of us is a naturally spiritual being. And when we realize our natural spirituality, we're less addicted and depressed and we're better to each other.

Spirituality is innate with its own neural correlates and its genetic markers. Religion is 100% environmentally transmitted. We aren't born religious beings. We're born spiritual beings. religion for many people can cultivate their natural spirituality, but we are spiritual whether or not we are religious. So when you say, you know, hey, wait a minute, why is he doing that if he's a religious person? The question is, is he using his innate hardwired seat of perception to be loving, guiding, and never leave anyone alone? There's a difference between preaching what you believe

and preaching your point of view. And when you experience, religion, God, faith, atheism, whatever it might be, people are, might be feeling that you're telling me that I'm wrong or what I need to think, as opposed to saying, here's how I see this. And this is how I feel about it. And I don't remember what I said. I do remember the feeling. This is a bit hyperbolic, I guess, but people either believe in God and like, God is real, God is great

I live for God they're here and then there's a huge gap where not many people live and then over here it's you fucking idiot you believe in a a ghost upstairs

who created the world in seven days it very much feels like politics too where it's like where's the centrist mentality like where's the maybe where's the I don't know where's the probably not there's such certainty that this is or is not.

Well, I won't push back on that a little bit because the fastest growing religion in the United States is spiritual but not religious. Right. And many of the spiritual but not religious have a very different kind of conception of God where it's much more like the spirit of nature or of just kind of general love in the world.

Right. And many of them are agnostic. Many of them are like, you know, I don't really, know. There's, you know, there's, there's quite a, the survey that I read, um, hardcore atheists are like less than 15%, um, and there's almost equal amount of agnostics of people that that don't know. So I, I feel like the spiritual but not religious and the agnostic do make up that center, and that that's a pretty big portion of the population. I, that, that very much makes sense to me.

There is a traditional view of God, and there's many, many different gods. Sure. But there's an Abrahamic view of, I call it in the book Sky Daddy. Well, not just Abrahamic view. There's also, I don't know enough about it, but there's also like the, the Quran site, Quran. But Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Is it?

I thought Abrahamic religion came. Abraham and Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Oh, those are all the World Testament? Yeah, and it all comes to the people of the book. The Islam sees itself very much as a fulfillment of that lineage. Then the Abrahamic God is patriarchal is where it becomes something to follow. I mean, in a quite literal sense, just governmental policies that are based off of religion. But like there are people that there are people that are living their life for religion.

and then there's people that don't. And to me, I don't know. I guess I don't understand it well enough, but spiritual, I feel like I'm a spiritual person. I feel like life has meaning within its life that isn't necessarily otherworldly. Like, I think Avatar does the best version of that. Like, everything is connected in a way,

and I think that's beautiful and spiritual. But like, religion, talking about religion is taboo now. Do you disagree? Well, again, I want to separate religion from spirituality because, yes, there is a lot of taboo about talking about religion. And that bleeds over into spirituality. And I think especially in the comedy world

where you talk about spirituality, people in the comedy world like, uh-oh, they really want to talk about religion and I bet they're gonna try and convert me and like you say, or preach to me or something like that. But I say in soul boom, hold it up. Faster?

Cover. I say in soul boom, I feel like we've thrown the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater. So we threw the religious bathwater out, but we've also lost a lot of the beautiful, rich wisdom traditions and meaning from the world's great faith traditions

that we could benefit from individually and societally. Would you say that spirituality then is perhaps the philosophy, of religion and the intention behind it and not necessarily the miracle of it. I think that's very well said. Even as an atheist, if someone walks into a cathedral and there's stained glass and there's music playing, it's just, it's beautiful. And someone says, I feel God here. That's an experience. They're using a mouth sound God to describe what they're feeling. And even to this day when someone, if someone were to say that, I would say, I feel God here too. Because now we're just, we're just

using a word to share an experience, a shared experience that we're having. But then when someone says God says this or is this or does this or whatever, okay, that's different. That's a truth claim that we're making, you know, about God in the nature of the universe. And that's where I'm going to be much more skeptical or wary of using that word. But that word of, I feel God here. I have no problem as an atheist saying that because that's, that's an experience that is permeated in my life. I think that's a quote from the office. I feel God in this jilly. tonight. That's right. That's right. So Pam was right. Maybe Pam was right all along. She felt God in the Chile. Pam the the theologian was on to something. I think so. There's uh someone could write a book on

the spirituality of the office. Get on that folks. What is your true identity? Some traditions say it is your soul. Some say it is your consciousness. The internet says it is your digital footprint. And honestly, these days the internet might be right. Just your emails inbox connects your bank, your job, your shopping, your travel, your social media, everything. Which is why it's mildly horrifying that most email services scan your inbox and collect data to target you with ads. With new generations, it's even worse. Proton Mail does things differently, and that's why Soul Boom is partnering with them. Proton lets you reserve a private email username for your child for up to 15 years, so their digital life starts private from day one.

Which honestly, sounds like a pretty enlightened way to begin an online existence. If protecting your soul sounds like a lot right now? Why don't you just start with your email? Try Proton mail for free by going to proton.mE slash soul boom. Let's talk about hair strategy. Look, hair changes over time, but you can take a proactive approach, and that's why I've been using neutrophol men. Neutrophol is physician formulated, clinically tested, and recommended by dermatologists. Instead of quick fixes, it's designed to target root causes that can affect hair thickness and shedding. My routine is simple. I take four capsules daily with a meal. I've been consistent with it, and personally, I have noticed some hair growth and a little less shedding while taking Nutrafall. And I like that it's something

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Visit NutraFol.com and enter promo code Soul Boom for $10 off your first month's subscription. And free shipping. Find out when NutraFal is the best-selling hair growth supplement brand at NutraFal.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L-com promo code soul boom. That's neutrafall.com promo code soul boom. How would you diagnose Dwight Shrut and the various kind of things that push and pull him to being both a people-pleaser and kind of a bully at the same time? Do you actually want me to answer the question?

I think for me to answer that question, I need to ask you one. Okay. Because motivation and intention matters. Okay. So what do you think motivated him or what the intention was with people pleasing but then also bullying? I think Dwight is all about rules and hierarchies. I think, you know, when you see the Terminator and like the Terminator has options and it's like one, you know, say fuck you motherfucker or say I'll be back or whatever, he has like those options. Like Dwight is eternally seeing a list of options.

And for him, a hierarchy, Michael being his boss, bosses are to be lauded, respected, revered, kissed up to. Kind of similar to our current political situation in the United States right now a little bit. But at the same time, inferior, he holds in disdain. and there are right ways and wrong ways of doing things. And he is there to make money and profit and be the best possible paper salesman and whether he's liked or not liked. And ultimately, he's a shrewd above and beyond.

So it's kind of loyalty, not just to his family, but to the family structures and strictures that kind of motivate him. There is a larger shrewd cause. I love that you said that. You know what he made me think of? He made me think of Jean-Paul Sartre. Okay.

And when he talks about our willingness to surrender our freedom for structure. And so many people do that because I think it's actually an easier way to live, is to pick a structure, be it religious or political, or it really doesn't matter what kind of organization you want to believe in, and go, I'm going to abide by whatever you want me to abide by. I have made one choice and the rest I'm surrendering. Meaning, I don't have to constantly be making these deliberate, authentic, thoughtful choices. I have now, by making this one choice, sort of surrendered to the rest of my freedom,

or so we think. And people do that with religion, but people do that with work as well. And so I see Dwight- Can I throw something else? Yes, of course. I think I see a lot of young contemporary people, but I think this has always been the case, doing that with just the strictures of contemporary society.

Absolutely. I'm going to be materialistic. People on TikTok want me to look great. I'm going to work on looking great. They want to be more popular, so I'm going to use social media to try and be more popular. I'm going to buy things that are easy. I'm going to have superficial conversations. I'm going to just seek kind of a social evolution that is culturally and socially

acceptable. Yeah. They chose a place where they wanted to belong. And then they decided to just do everything they needed to in order to belong. It's really that simple. And I see Dwight exactly the same way. He's like, I want to belong to this amazing paper company. I am a shrewd, which means that I work hard.

There are all these prescribed ways that he needs to live his life to be the shrew. And then that's what he did. Instead of sitting there and being like, do I like paper? Does this resonate with me? What beliefs have led to me treating, you know, a Pam trying to this way. And I think what it does, it alleviates us from thinking, truly. And I think we see that in society all the time where we have chosen a path so that we don't really have to think very much. And we have other people to tell us exactly what to do and how to think and how to behave and who we should become.

I also think, you know, maybe Dwight doesn't fully fall into that category. but I think that's how we alleviate our anxiety of freedom is like choosing one path and going full force. And that's what I see that he did. And a lot of people will do that and then they'll have a nervous breakdown. Yeah. In their 20s, 30s or 40s or,

especially like 40s, 50s, that's kind of the traditional time. It's earlier now. I thought it was, I wanted to be the best insurance agent and have a house on this particular cul-de-sac and have 2.4 kids and whatever. And then they, and then everything falls apart. But you're right, I think even younger now, you see people having kind of like meaning of life breakdowns at 28. I didn't know I had mental illness.

I really didn't until much later. And so it was untreated. I think people can live with mental illness, which is what I'm living with. But mine was untreated for so long. And because I was getting rewarded, like, through YouTube and money, I was like kept going with it. Until I realized it was like, okay, like, I can't do it anymore. What were the symptoms of your mental illness? How did it manifest?

Well, at first it was just, you know, I attribute a lot of it to, like, abusing, like, prescription pills. So I thought, well, maybe it's like when I'm using this, it's just I'm a little unhinged, but then when I wasn't. It was 2019. I don't know. I just, like, something happened where I got 5150ed. I had just gone through a breakup. And I... What's 5150?

Like, oh, it's like an involuntary hold. So, like, in California... Danger to itself or other? Yeah, okay, so you know. Yeah, okay. I know. Yeah. Some of our viewers may not. Okay, right. So I got 51-53 times that year, and the first was, yeah, I just, I just remember waking up in like Cedars Cineight night and my ex-boyfriend at the time was there. And then someone I was filming with at the time I was there and they were like filming, like filming. Like they had their camera and stuff. And I just lost it. I ran through Cedar Cineine. They shot me with like Ativan. And I just like couldn't calm down. And so that was like the first time it happened, went to the mental hospital. So I had borderline personality disorder, which is more of like a, um, uh, um, uh, like a personality disorder. And I had trouble like regulating my emotions. I had, I thought relationships were more intense than they were. I would like have like these fantasies, but also like I would disassociate at the same time. So there was like delusion, there was dissociation. There was like a lot happening. And yeah, I think I think it wasn't until then that I saw a therapist

who was like, oh, this might be something you have, which then they referred me to DBT classes, which is it's like a group therapy for people with borderline. Dialectical behavior therapy. Yeah. Yeah. And how did that help specifically? Oh, it helped. Is that what helped turn the corner? Yes. So what about it specifically?

I like the group aspect of it. I was always someone that like just wanted private therapy or actually I wasn't doing any therapy up until 2019. But I love the group aspect of just like hearing other people like share like what I was going through because I didn't know what splitting was. I didn't know what disassociating was. And I was like, oh. What is splitting and disassociating?

So like disassociating, like, just like, you almost like black out. There would be times when I couldn't even remember, like, people would tell me what happened. I'm like, I just don't remember that happening because I would totally black out almost. And I guess I did it since a child, like childhood. When you asked me about childhood, so much of that I just disassociated from where it's like I don't remember. It's kind of a blur, like memories, but like I just don't remember a lot of it. And same thing, splitting. It's like all or nothing, right? It's like, you know, I'm obsessed with someone or I completely hate someone. And I like just, I can just turn like in an instant. like it's a different person. So I thought, did I have multiple personnel? I disordered. Did I have all this? So when I went to the group therapy classes, they really taught you the skills on, for me, it's breathing, which now, and later on I had another rock bottom in 2021. But for me, it's like kind of like my meditation now.

But in DBT, they call it wise mind, which is like, you know, just really like counting the spaces in between breaths, which is basically for me, like meditation. So show us a wise mind right now. Can you demonstrate? So it would be like, yeah, if I was getting overwhelmed right, I want to like snap on someone. Like, and this just works for me, not for everybody, but it really was like taking the breaths, right?

You just go, you like count and then you see the spaces in between and you just count, you either see the spaces or you count the breath. So it's like one, two, three, four, five. And then like, like, and exhale. So it's like, and then just like watching the spaces pass. As I've gotten into like meditation, sometimes I see like clouds passing or my problems passing or just kind of like taking a moment, which I don't think I ever did. I was very quick to react, which is why all my videos online are me just like really angry

and aggressively reacting to anyone who said anything about me. Yeah, which is scary for people. It's scary for people in real life because I was. I was snapping on my people in real life. And I'm like, this is just who I am. Like, this is just what it is. Were you sober at that point in time? Yeah, because I wouldn't say I was ever, like, addicted.

I said I would use when I was around people who would use. So if someone was like, that was the year of my meth, right? But, like, X, all this stuff like that. So I was sober. And I think that helped a lot. I was also like very alone and I just never did good alone. So with the group, I just felt like I had people to talk to. That was the first time I learned about the observer.

Yeah. And that changed a lot. I mean, that changed a lot. Tell us about your experience of the observer. How does that work for you? Well, I never even thought about until I listened to Power of Now. And I try to kind of go, is that real? And then I try to, and then just when I said, is that real?

Something was observing me say that, you know what I mean? And I kind of explore. that I still explore today, but I really do believe that my thoughts aren't who I am, you know? And so that thing that's watching it all happen and observing it is who I am. So it's like, my brain is going to do all kinds of fucking things, especially I'm a kid of deep trauma, you know? So it's like, I'm going to tell you something crazy. So this is how poorly I used to treat myself because of my trauma, okay? Okay. One time I auditioned for this Amy Poller, she was producing some show. And I prepared.

And I walked into the audition. And I just, I don't know what happened. I just, there was so many people in the room and I completely lost. I just got in my head. I couldn't remember the lines. And then I got nervous. So I went to the car and I took a bottle of water like this big. And one of those smart waters completely filled. I smashed my head over it until I was bleeding through my face. I would punish myself, you know what I mean, for just do something that my dad would do maybe, you know what I mean? And so after that experience, I really had to do a lot of like, because that seeped into all my life, even doing stand-up. If I had a bad show, I would punish myself.

Wow. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like I had to like turn to Eckhart to all these things and just go and really just take a minute, right? not react, right? Even if I'm like in a conversation with somebody, just step back, five, ten minutes,

and observe my thoughts, right? And get grounded, you know? And I had to learn all that because if I didn't do that, I'd probably kill myself. You know what I mean? Not kill myself, but I would hurt myself and I would treat myself poorly. And I'm not, I don't want to allow myself to do that anymore.

You know, I just, you know, let me say something's so cheesy, but maybe six months ago. I had a tough last year, really tough. So many bad things happened. And after I got through all that, I was in the bathtub, taking a bath, and I was rubbing my body with soap.

So cheesy. And I said to myself, I'm so proud of you. And I weeped in that bathtub, you know, because I'm, I'm really trying. You parented yourself in a way that your parents did and couldn't. Yeah. Yeah.

And you know my mom, they did the best they could. I mean, they went through their own trauma. They were kids during the Korean War. They saw death. You mean, they didn't have any parenting, you know? And then my parents come to Korea and my dad beats my mom, beats the kids, me and my brother. And you know, my mom has a missing tooth, you know, because he punched it out. And you witness all that stuff.

Later in life, you find out that, you know, it's just generational trauma. Yeah. He did what he could. You know what I mean? And his dad probably beat the shit out of him. Right. Yeah. But I mean, I don't know.

You have kids? I'm one teenage son. Wow. Yeah. I don't have any kids. But if I do have them, I feel like I'll change. It'll be different. Hey, folks, let's get real.

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I need to bring love into all of my situations, all of my relationships, and to recognize that if I can't bring love into a situation, it doesn't mean there's anything. wrong with me but nor does it mean that there's something wrong with that person it means that I haven't yet discovered how to love in this situation let me stay open to do how could I love in this situation I don't know what a great question to live in mm so I try to live my life in questions rather than in answers I try to not demonize others for their perspectives and their opinions and and I leave myself open to being guided by something other than my best thinking as to the next right action.

All that being said, there's something to be said for social insistence on change. I see that all of our problems are based in the fact that all value has been reduced to money. There's no more evaluation of quality of life. no valuation of love, of community. There's valuation of money, and I need to get mine in order to be okay. And we all have to find the values that live within us rather than accepting the values that are offered us by society.

Morality is not about following a rule system over there. It's about getting in here and going like, what matters to me? what's right? Not what my fear tells me to get, but what's right? Well, how do I get there? Stop listening to the fear. Listen for the love in here. Find the way to go in here. And we change the world by what we have become, not by what we do. And if all of us are looking for peace, peace is going to begin to be found. But we're not all looking for peace. No, we're not. But I don't have any control over what you're looking.

looking for and for me to demonize you for not looking for peace is for me to not find peace in that area. How do I find peace in that area? Think about Gandhi. He brought the British Empire to its knees by insisting on nonviolence. Who can do that? I can't do that. I don't know how to do that, but he did that. He insisted on not hating. That's a good start. How do you define God? I define God, and this is not me being a jerk. It's, I define God as that thing that can't be defined, but that has all these different aspects that indicate a life of value, that indicate a world of meaning. Anything that I call God has to be infinite. If I can describe it, that makes it finite. So I'm describing an aspect of God. Yeah. And cultural norms and psychology and our

upbringing will determine perhaps what avenue we're going to follow to get in touch with God, but maybe not. God is that thing that the way it really, feels to me is we come in here, we don't know how to do this, we stumble around trying to find it, and if we're sincere, we'll stumble in the right direction. And God is the flow of life moving from the darkness to the light. And as I start to listen to the feeling of that flow, I will start to become more aligned with that flow. And when I become aligned with that flow, it stops being a struggle.

Because now I'm just course correcting, but going with this flow, not that I am given, but that I am. That's what spiritual works about. I am that flow. Let me do the thing. You know, if you want to travel east, don't start out walking west.

If you want to find flow, go in the direction of flow. If you want to get free of the ego, move in the direction of that which is not the ego, which is movement, flow, grace. Your body literally is a community of 70 trillion cells that's spying on your brain. That's basically what it is. And if you were to sit there right now, Rain,

and I said to you, I want you to fake standing up 10 times, but one time I want you to stand up. And we were men. measuring orthostatic pressure or blood volume, blood pressure. Before you even made the conscious choice when it was, your body already knew, because it's got to squirt out a certain amount of adrenaline to keep the same volume of blood going to your brain. So your body is very precognitive.

Okay, so what does that have to do with your friend? Everything, because most people are sitting on the couch with the remote control, the big screen TV, they got their iPad on their lap or their tablet, they got their phone over here, they got their computer over here, they got their beer and their peanuts here, and they go, I think I'm gonna change tomorrow. Now, the body is the servant to the mind.

That kind of decision has no effect on the body. That thought never makes it past the brainstant. It's theoretical, it's hypothetical, right? But what we discovered is when a person makes a decision to change with such firm intention that the amplitude of that choice, carries a level of energy that causes their body to respond to their mind,

that the choice that they make in that moment becomes an experience in time that they will never forget. They will say to you, Rain, I knew exactly where I was, the time of day it was, what I was doing, when I made up my mind the change, and the stronger the emotion you feel when you make up your mind to change,

the more you remember the choice. You're branding that choice neurologically in your brain, and that's giving your body, a taste, a sampling of the future emotionally. And that kind of aligns the body to that feeling. Now the person who searches for that same intensity every day will change. See, we don't do meditations in our work. We don't pray to have our prayers answer.

We get up as if they already are. Like there's a kind of an absolute state. Why? Because when you feel a different emotion and you've regulated that emotional change, you won't need anything outside you. Like that person doesn't want to leave the familiar emotional state until there is crisis, and then they have to, right?

So change your emotional state by thought alone. Why? Because if you have an event in your life that's traumatic, the stronger the emotion you feel from that trauma, the more altered you are inside of you, the more the brain freezes a frame and takes a snapshot, and that's called a long-term memory. So we remember the events in our life that have high emotional quotients, all right? And that emotion then that's connected to that past experience says, all men are this way, money is the root of all evil, and my ex is this way, whatever.

You draw a conclusion about that experience. So how are you going to change that biologically? You've got to make a choice with a level of amplitude that's greater than the trauma, greater than the betrayal, greater than the past event. Your body's got to come out of its resting state. And that moment has to define you. In other words, you've got to create a long-term memory by thought alone. And so most people never come out of their resting state

until there's crisis, right? Until there's a breakdown, right? Until there's diagnosis. And so then we teach people actually, okay, you got to come out of your resting state. Like if Maynard went bankrupt and his wife left him or something like that, he'd be like, okay, I'm really now,

I've got to change this procrastination now and I'm going to take this snapshot and I remember this moment. Yeah. And it's got to be that intensity, right? There's a strong contingency that is around this kind of concept of coming out of your resting state

and that's what the walking meditations are about. It's like it's not, it's for you to get practicing with your eyes open. We practice relaxed in our heart and awaken a brain with our eyes open. Let's do that. Why? Because you want to be that way all day. And so you'll close your eyes, you'll get in that state, you'll open your eyes, you walk.

You close your eyes again, you reboot. Get there again, you open your eyes, you walk again. You keep doing that enough times that becomes the habit, right? So we use it in that way. since we're sitting here and I see you gazing fondly at that Dwight bobblehead on the shelf, I did want to, I'd be remiss to not talk about our years on the office. And I was thinking about your incredible line from season nine that kind of summed up the whole show.

Do you want to remind us with that? Yeah, I think about that line all the time. Yeah. It's like one of the wisest, truest lines in the history of television. for real it was it's all Greg Daniels and i just was a vessel i wish there was some way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them or something close to that very close to that yeah it is such a poignant reminder that you're always in them or that that that to just take stock because this moment might be some serious good old days yeah and and those

nine years were, oh, were 100%. Sure. And that's one of my great regrets in life. I have few regrets. I've made a ton of mistakes, but few regrets is, and I was sharing this with BJ, that I knew, you know, up here I knew this was a great gig. I'm like, these people are amazing. The scripts are incredible. People, audiences love the show. It's very funny. It's very smart. I get to play this incredible, memorable character. I knew. Beloved. Belved iconic character.

Dwight Shrut is a legend. Andy Bernard. Well, iconic. Mount Olympus of TV characters. But I knew it up here. I knew it cerebrally, but I really wish I had just spent more time just being like,

this is it. It just doesn't get better than this. I knew. I knew it cerebrally, like, wow, we are improvising. And as I was going back, I was remembering how much we improvised the Cornell stuff. Yeah. And we had so much stuff of you hitting me with the Prius and stuff. And we just would just kind of go.

And these scenes are classic. If I could just kind of like, okay, but what would you absorb them deeper? Sure. But what would that have looked like? Like, what would you have done or felt different? More gratitude. Yes. Because for me, there was a lot of like, you know, it was, we were all on the office trying to get a movie career.

Driving elsewhere. Right. Yeah. And trying to set up production companies and trying to do, you know, commercial gigs and, you know, overall deals. Yes. You know, and everyone was. And we had great opportunities to do, to do movies. You did hangover, obviously.

And, you know, so many great films we all got to do during those years. But it was, it was like, I wasn't as. present as I could have been and I wasn't as grateful as I could have been because I was always thinking like next hiatus how do I get a movie lined up or how do I get this other thing lined up and I was always ahead of myself. I won't say I never did but I wish a lot more I would have been like, wow, this is fucking amazing. Yes.

I completely agree. Yeah. I think it's partly a function of kind of what our business tells us to do. and like prescribed for like, here are the pathways. Here's what you're supposed to be. Your agents call and they're like, what's your next script? And did you read those things? There are a lot of external forces sort of telling you to keep striving and not to take stock,

which is unfortunate. But it's also, I think, a function of that the age that we were. It's harder to, I think, feel present and great. when you have so much life ahead of you and you're looking. It was a bit old. I was on the older end. Sure. Cass.

I didn't really start playing Dwight until I was like 39 or 40. So I was in my 40s. Yeah. You know. Zonski was a little spring chicken. Sure, sure. But I hear you. You're young.

You've been striving for a long time. All of a sudden you have this opportunity and doors are open. And like, hey, do you want to write a script? Do you want to develop material? Hey, they're interested in you. for this. Would you want to meet with these filmmakers? Yeah. You know, and you and I both struggled for a long time before we got the office and, you know, long years of unemployment. So of course, we want to, you want to take advantage

and rise to that opportunity as well. Yeah. That show, it's also, there's no way to know that how special that show was. We knew, like you said, we knew that it was special. We knew that we appreciated it and loved it and loved this community that we were so lucky to be a part of. We, I think, all knew that even with the stripe, but we didn't know how rare it was. I think that's what was, that's what has locked in in hindsight is like just how special it was. We knew it was special. We loved it. And I think we did, I think a lot of us, like I do remember a lot of us reflecting at different

sometimes just hanging out over the years, like just how much we loved being a part of that at the time. You know who was great at that was Angela. She was very good at like, isn't this great? I just love you all and here we are. And the scene is so funny and you all are so funny. And she was always great at kind of bringing things down in a good way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's really been in the years since, where weirdly like when you're in the when you know when we're when we're when we're on the office we're kind of striving for the next big great thing yeah but now that we're like 10 12 15 years out it's like I just want that again yeah like I want to go back to that yeah I want to be in that I want to be with all of that wonderful that wonderful energy and those those funny scripts I was reflecting with somebody recently how special the table reads were because that was one hour a week

that we were all together. Right. Right? Because everyone was, we were shooting our different scenes all week and sometimes there'd be conference room scenes where we're all in there together and those are great.

But the table reads, it was the whole community. It was the whole office community. It was the writers, the producers, the entire cast, and even some people from NBC that were, Gen we generally liked. Yep.

And they left us alone, which was good because we were working as a show. And I just always had a buzz going, like, in those table reads because it was just like this electric thing. Like, what are we going to do? What's next? What are we going to? What's this next episode? What's it going to be?

And, you know, the new laughs, the new jokes, the new character discoveries, the new things that the writers cooked up. And the amazing. about it, by the way, is that when everyone was dismissed, you could stay if you wanted. And Greg would say, yeah, hang out, let us know your thoughts. And we're gonna be talking about this and this needs to get fixed and stuff like that.

Sometimes he would be like, everyone go, we need to rewrite this and we just leave us alone. But they were so open to our ideas and opinions, and that also is very rare. Yeah. What about Dwight Shute versus Andy Bernard? What do you think about that? Looking back on that,

it was such a, it was a treat getting ready to talk with you and go back and look at some of those. I wish I had rewatched some of that stuff. I, there was always such a wonderful kind of tension and one-upsmanship between us, which I loved for Michael's attention,

for power within the office, for Angela for a couple of seasons. But I thought they wrote that, balance so nicely where we didn't hate each other. Well, no. And it ended up being a really fabulous kind of camaraderie and mutual respect. I think this is part of the miracle of that show, which is that we, you and I were playing like essentially quite toxic characters, like, you know, or at least like characters that

maybe had like warm hearts, but some real toxic and difficult traits. and, and social traits, maybe. And coping mechanisms and so forth. But you and I had a ball doing that and like portraying that and that the joy that we felt and the ways that we made each other laugh and all those scenes where we're like, where Dwight and you're just like at it,

but we were just making each other laugh. Yeah. And I think that, whatever that energy was that we really had, despite our character's behavior is what an audience knew or felt at some level. Yeah. And the same goes for all of the, you know, as toxic or antisocial as Michael Scott was in so many ways. like he's so beloved because I think the true,

the joy and compassion that we brought to performing those things. And us as people being in the same space together and having an energy that we loved and cherished with each other, no matter what these crazy characters are doing, I always think that the, so much of the lasting appeal of that show, which has been so surprising. Like this, and this is just me looking back

trying to kind of like understand it better. I always think like it's the joy and the fun and the, just that kind of giddy delight that we all have felt. Really felt making those scenes. And like I said, didn't matter how toxic the scene was. We were laughing and having fun doing it. I mean, as you're saying that,

thinking about like how ballsy was it that here's a show and kind of the three leaders of the office you know steve you and me as dwight um were really kind of despicable clueless selfish anti-social weirdos and we're kind of like at the center of like running the office you know what i mean, and a lesser show would have had like one office weirdo. There were a lot of other ancillary weirdos like, you know, creed and whatnot. But that was a bold move to have so many anti-heroes. You know, it's funny. It wasn't for everybody.

My parents did not get it. My parents were of a generation where you don't sit in awkward moments, which is the entire tone of the show. the premise. Like the entire, uh, yeah, the entire premise of that shows, humor is to sit in discomfort.

Mm-hmm. And stew in, and like in people's awkwardness and, uh, and toxicity. And, uh, my parents,

God bless them. Southern. Like, you make peace. You keep your company comfortable. You make them comfortable. You have small talk that would fill in any of, any uncomfortable silence.

And if something gets weird, you redirect and you know, you become like, I feel like a lot of Southern grace and Southern charm is really just mass is like, is being a magician, like a misdirect master. You kind of like, like the minute something's weird or uncomfortable, it's like, look over here. There's, this is pretty like, yeah, yeah, let's have, let's talk about this or let's talk, you know.

And, and so I remember that my parents early on, Eventually, I think they grew to love it and understand it, but those first few seasons I was on there were just kind of like, it's hard for us to watch. It's hard to watch. It's hard to watch. Yeah. Yeah.

My dad used to wear around a white shirt shirt when the very first merchandising dropped in like season three or something like that. And then people would be like, oh, I love that show. And I'd be like, that's my song. Oh, yeah. He loved it. He couldn't get enough of it. But when fans approach you, I imagine they do

and they do Cornell heard of it. Yeah. And what else do you get approached with? Nard dog. Nard dog. Yeah, that's the big tuna. People call me big tuna, which is ironic because I call Jim big tuna. Right, that's not your nickname.

They say to me, like, my favorite line is Bears beats Battlestar Galactica. Yeah. Which I never said. Is that? Jim says it. Oh, that's so funny. When he's impersonating Dwight. Of course.

You're like so funny. You sign that or can you say it? Yeah. Yeah. See it to my friend on the phone. It's like, I never said that line. That's getting a little persnickety. No, of course.

But that, even I remember that as a Dwight line. It's like, oh, that's so funny. Yeah. But yeah, even my agent for years called me Big Tuna. And it's like, it's like, have you watched the show, buddy? Like, oh, but, but and then that became its own joke. But, but yeah, big. tuna and probably the nard-dog people have shown me tattoos that they like nard dog tattoos not on

their butt like i like yeah like andy did yeah um but that's always uh one guy asked me recently on my book tour for snafu a guy asked me to sign his arm and he showed me because he was going to get it tattooed right and he showed me someone else's signature that was tattooed i can't remember who it was Yeah. Another actor he'd had signed his arm and had had it tattooed. That's a lot of pressure. I didn't do it. I was like not doing that.

I'm not like. Because what if you mess, you mess up or it's like shaky or? Yeah. And by the way, that other signature was did not look good. And I was like, you know what?

You can probably you can, I'll sign your book. Yeah. And then you can like Xerox that or Xerox. You can take a picture of it and have your tattoo art. I'd have just gone like, that's my real signature. One of the things the office family has done and people talk about so much is how much, what a positive impact it's made on their mental health and how much it's helped their anxiety and depression and loneliness. And they do feel like the office cast is like their family.

Have you encountered mental health struggles either with yourself or in your family? Well, I mean, my nephew that passed away a year after my dad, he just, we lost him to depression, and he just kind of got into a dark place he couldn't come out of. And I think about all the things I missed, all the signs I missed all the time. and I want to make sure with my kids that they feel very comfortable talking to me and especially with our sons, just having real open dialogue and open communication and an open acceptance. About emotions and dark emotions. Yes, and also about mental health.

And I am very thankful. I feel like our community of parents and at the school, it's very, accepting to talk about your mental health now. And I know that's not everywhere, but I feel like our little nook where we live, people talk about it very openly. And kids are much more open to say if they've had issues with anxiety or depression. And I'm thankful for that for this generation. I hope that continues, that level of just dialogue and normalizing the fact that, you know, we all struggle with different things. And when you struggle with something, you want to get the tools that help you cope and help you deal with that.

And whatever those tools are, that shouldn't be anything you should be ashamed of. If you needed any kind of help with anything else, you know, if you needed a math tutor or, you know, someone to help you, like if you made the basketball team, you need someone to help you work on your basketball skills. But you're talking about really releasing that stigma around mental health, that that is something you can and should get help with. Absolutely. And that we kind of all at certain points in our lives are going to need help with. And by the way, for viewers, listeners right there, if this is triggering talking about suicide at all, if this is something you're thinking about, there's lots of help out there. And we're putting a suicide text line right here, chat line, phone number, reach out and get some help and get some counseling around it.

Speaking of suicide and mental health, I think one of the biggest issues around it, it is that people feel like what they're feeling, that they're the only person feeling that way. Yes. And everyone is going about their, they go out in the world, everyone's cheery and going about their lives. You look on social media. Everyone's like looking sexy at the beach and, you know, curating their best and shiniest moments from their lives.

And you have to understand. And I, because I've, as you know, been speaking about mental health stuff a lot recently in my own struggles and ups and downs and people are so grateful because I think, I think they're, you know, to hear that, oh, a celebrity, a wildly handsome celebrity like myself would be struggling, you know, with anxiety or depression, a loneliness, or addiction, or any of these issues are like, oh, I can relate.

I think that means a lot. So it's super important to reach out and get help and understand that you are, you really are not alone. You might feel alone like you're the only person in this black pit that is feeling this way. Trust me, there are millions that are feeling that way. find a way to connect and understand that people have felt this way. They've gotten through it.

They've gone through it and gone through to the other side and gotten, like you said, tools to help them get out of it. Yes. I think that's so important. I think the thing, especially as we're getting older because we are, Rain, you're getting older. You're getting older. We haven't done anything yet. Are we going to do stuff?

No. But as we get older, I just grow a beard over my jails. Well, it's coming for me, I'm sure. I'm going to grow a beard. I'm going to grow a beard. But as we get older, I just find it so important that people understand that not only are they not alone, but that other people want to see them. You know, people want to be seen, but to know that people want to see them.

They want to help. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was talking to Arthur Brooks, the happiness expert and whatnot, and he was talking about like, get off your phones, phone detox, social media detox, look in people's eyes, touch, conversation, hug, high five in the room. It's so important to just humans thrive with dopamine and oxytocin released in the brain through real connection, not the connection of a heart and a like and a thumbs up on the. the social media, which you are on way too much because you're constantly liking all my wife's posts. I'm not on it that much, but I love your wife's posts. I love, first of all, she's just so cool. She's just, she's really cool, and she's smart and she's funny. Yeah. And she travels and is well read and she's a great writer. And I just, I just dig her. And now she's doing kung fu. She's studying

kung fu she can totally she practices with a sword in the driveway she's gonna kick your ass she's not in the driveway with a sword she's doing like she's gonna totally kick your ass crouching tiger kill dragon kill kill bill um crouching tiger kill bill you idiot you idiot you idiot rain by the way always calls my children hey idiots they love it yeah they can't get enough of it yeah he's like what's up idiots they're like right right they are funny they are little slow. They are not. It's okay. It's okay to be. You stop it. The Soul Boom Podcast. Subscribe now on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever else you get your stupid podcasts.