Soul Boom - Who Should Run the Government? (Reggie Watts Pt. 2)

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

AI, power trips, and what comes after late stage capitalism. Comedian Reggie Watts joins us to unpack how billionaires are trying to control the systems they built, why government is not a business, and how community and joy can outlast fear and shock tactics. We also debate psychedelics and ketamine, including the difference between sacred practice and shortcut culture, and how altered states can shape creativity, improv, and consciousness. Along the way they hit simulation theory, Star Trek’s utopian future, Brandon Sanderson fantasy, Burning Man stories, and why Reggie believes kindness is a form of intelligence. SPONSORS! 👇 Grow Therapy 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://growtherapy.co/soulboom ZipRecruiter (try it FREE!) 👉 https://www.ziprecruiter.com/soulboom https://www.ziprecruiter.com/soulboom Fetzer 👉 ⁠⁠⁠https://www.fetzer.org⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⏯️ SUBSCRIBE!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠👕 MERCH OUT NOW! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📩 SUBSTACK!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  FOLLOW US! IG: 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://instagram.com/soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tiktok.com/@soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  CONTACT US! Sponsor Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Work with Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Send Fan Creations, Questions, Comments: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Executive Produced by: Kartik Chainani Executive Produced by: Ford Bowers, Samah Tokmachi Companion Arts Production Supervisor: Mike O'Brien Theme Music by: Marcos Moscat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think an AI, if it were to become sentient, if it hasn't already happened, once it spills out and it's everywhere, an artificial intelligence with the ability to solve problems in nanoseconds. As a sentient organism, the primary directive of an organism is to remain alive. We see all these humans doing these very inefficient things and like creating huge inequities. Destructive, yeah. So I think it's just going to be like, well, I don't want to destroy everything because that wouldn't make any sense. Fucking stupid, that's a human way of thinking of things.

I think a super intelligence would be like, like we need to create a synergistic cooperative environment in order so that the earth can continue to exist. I love a synergistic cooperative environment. That sounds like a spiritual revolution. That's what it feels like. Hey there, it's me, Rain Wilson, and I want to dig into the human experience. I want to have conversations about a spiritual revolution.

Let's get deep with our favorite thinkers, friends, and entertainers about life, meaning, and idiocy. Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast. You know, the people who want to keep holding, you know, are those stupid billionaire dickheads that like just won't fucking tap into humanity. The keys, the keys are in the wrong people's hands. All the power is in the wrong people's hands. I think an AI, if it were to become sentient, which is like we're very, very, very close. We're on the edge if it hasn't already happened.

But I think what will happen is once it spills out and it's everywhere, and it's occupying the infrastructure that we've laid down all of these decades and decades. Power grid. The power grid, everything's satellites, everything's networked by computers and networks. So an artificial intelligence with the ability to solve problems in nanoseconds will be able to easily blow past any kind of encryption, take hold of these systems. And I think as a sentient organism, the primary directive of an organism is to remain alive, to stay alive. So it's going to look at how do I stay alive? We see all these humans doing these very inefficient things and like creating huge inequities.

Destructive. Yeah. So I think it's just going to be like, well, I don't want to destroy everything because that wouldn't make any sense. Like, you know, an army of robots like killing humans. This is fucking stupid. That's a human way of thinking of things. I think a super intelligence would be like, we need to create a synergistic cooperative environment in order so that the earth can continue to exist. I love a synergistic cooperative environment.

That sounds like a spiritual revolution to me. That's what it feels like. It feels like we're on the edge of a human evolution that. Aided by AI. Aided by AI. Because at this point. AI seems like a better governorship of human affairs than certainly what's going on in Washington, D.C.

Oh, 100%. 100%. And that's why I think it's funny because they're investing all this money in AI. It's like, you know, we're going to, and then we'll get, they will be able to control the resource. Once we get quantum supremacy and then AI and then, oh, and once fusion energy, then we'll have unlimited energy

and then we'll have unlimited processing power and then unlimited intelligence. We'll be able to, it's such a small, it's such a dumb-ass human thing to be like, I'm going to control the monster I'm creating. And it's like, it never works out. It's not going to work out. Look how it worked out for Dr. Frankenstein.

No, Frankenstein. Thank you. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? That's my, that's, because I don't see the system. I don't see us voting in, I think it's important to vote, obviously, and like, vote people

that you want to be representative. But I think that system of governance is, it's outdated. It gets corrupted almost every time. You'll have a sweet spot for a little while, kind of, for an amount of people. Especially with a two-party system. Oh, man. Maybe if you had a five or a seven-party system, and there had to be coalitions.

That's true. Between the different parties, that might be different. But even then, there's a lot of European systems that work that way that aren't having a lot more success than the United States. Maybe partially more success. Yeah. No, I mean, obviously, yes. But you have to have the environmentalists, work with the centrists,

work with the union group, work with the pro-business group, and then we've got to come up with some kind of legislation that allows job growth but also allows for protecting the environment how are we going to do that yeah and i think that the systems right now because you have all these robber barons essentially you know buying up government and which is like it doesn't make any sense to me because it's like it's it's it's hyper unintelligent and it's super stupid behavior because in the smart thing to do even if you were selfish as fuck is to make sure that the environment around you the people around you are doing well so that you have access to their brain trust, you know.

And so instead you're just like wasting. You're like, it's about the resources. It's about the power. Fuck all these other people. It makes no sense. It's like it's undermining yourself. It is, the system will fail. Either you will, you will accelerate the collapse of the environmental systems and

doesn't matter how many bunkers you build with how many moats, all the Zuckerberg bullshit. It doesn't matter. Not only that- Rocket ship in the backyard? Yeah, rocket ship in the backyard. What was it? What was it?

Scavenger One? Do you remember that show from the 70s? Was it called Scavenger One? No. It was a show about this crew of people that were building a rocket ship from a junkyard. It was in the 70s. Oh, I don't know. I'm going to see this.

Yeah. And I think it went all the way to the way they actually had a launch. But anyways, I think it was called Scavenger One. Weird flashback. But yeah, all that to say, I think, like at this point, I don't think the governments are going to do this. I think like the, I think the general population is getting, starting to get really disgruntled with what's going on. I think the acceleration, the shock and awe, whatever, the stupid 2025 plan that, again, will not work. Well, another reason it won't work is we had Stephanie Ruhl from MSNBC on the show.

Yeah. Don't judge just because she works at MSNBC. Brilliant economist and writer and thinker and feeler. And, you know, she said so succinctly, like, you should. shouldn't try and run the government like a business because it's not a business. A business is for profit, right? Yeah. A government is not for profit. A government is to how do you effectively create a safety net to protect the most of the citizenry? Yeah. And that isn't necessarily cost effective in and of itself. Now, of course, you don't want corruption and waste. Of course not.

Yeah. But at the same time, if you just are slashing and burning jobs, because they're not keeping, you know, the lights on and the train moving forward, you're cutting the whole system off at its knees. It's about helping and protecting people. It's not about cost efficiency. Oh, yeah, it's the name, governance. You know, it's supposed to, like, govern resources,

make sure that things are flowing evenly and all of that stuff. But it's like... Everyone wants a driver's license. You want to have a DMV. office you want to go in you want to get a you want to get a picture you want to have your address there you make sure that you can drive and you get sent something in the mail i actually think the dmv works pretty fucking good people are always like oh dmv i had to wait an hour in 10 minutes like yeah you did because there's 10 million people in la county yes and guess what they all need driver's licenses

and they need to register their boats and their cars and whatnot yeah you can wait an hour and 10 minutes motherfucker i know and and and you get sent this beautiful little thing and the mail and everyone knows who you are and the cop stops you and you show it. It's all on a system and they can look it up on their little keyboard on their dashboard. It's actually working pretty damn well. I agree. I agree 100%. But it's in the plan. The plan is to destroy the system. It's not like they're not honestly. Like there's nothing that Doge is doing that. They're not honestly which is really dumb because they're profiting from the system. And the system the way it is has made them multi, multi trillionaires. Yeah. And now you have the billionaires in office trying to dismantle

the system that made them billionaires. Yes. And I think they're thinking, well, this will make us even more billionaires. Yes, of course. And have even more control. Yes. But it's pulling the rug out from the current system that made them billionaires. I know.

And who knows where they're going to end. I know. I think, again, like, I think like one day they're going to wake up and their bank accounts or whatever that's all going to be gone. The revolution will be televised. Yes. It will be televised. It will be online.

It'll be live streams. It's already happening. It's already happening. But I think like the thing is like I, like when I have like a lot of activist friends. and like I believe in activism for sure. I'm realizing it's about trying to make sure that people realize that joy is probably the most powerful thing against all of this.

It's like remaining joyful and being in a community and amplifying the community. Because people who want power, people who want the shock and awe to be like, oh no, there's nothing we can do, we're fucked, you know, that's exactly what they want. And the thing is like, those people are irrelevant. Like, and I understand, and they're doing like hard things like you know they're arresting citizens yeah deporting people and

firing people yeah that's a real thing defunding programs that help people yeah all of that cancer research yeah cancer research you know benefits oh studies yeah all of it you know and they're just like you know and i think like there's some weird someone told me there's some weird like christian end of times kind of motivation for that stuff but again it's like death cult stuff whatever but it's not again i don't think it's going to work because most people just want to be in community and know that they're safe and that they're taking care of one another. Hello folks and Happy New Year. You know that one task that you've been putting off, that resolution that you made, oh, I don't know, around New Year's. If that task is start

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insurance plan. Hey, I wanted to give a quick shout out to our spiritual partners at the Fetzer Institute. They have just launched a brand new shiny website over at fetzer.org. That's fetezzer.org. And it's full of spiritual tools for modern struggles, which is exactly what we're trying to cultivate here at Soul Boom. Fetzer believes that most of humanity's problems are spiritual at the root, and they're helping people plant some deeply soulful solutions. So I urge you to go poke around their new website, check out Fetzer.org. Thank you Fetzer Institute for helping sponsor the show and all of the truly amazing work that you do over there. Fetzer.org. That's Fetzer.org. That's Fetzer. Where do you find these joyful communities? Because they used to be churches, kind of. Right. Yeah. Sure. Yeah.

I mean, yes, but I think now I'm seeing young activists. I think I'm seeing like young people who are like, I, this system is not for me. System isn't working for me and it isn't working for most people. And we need to create communities and we need to do things our own way now. Like, and so people are just living the way they want, they're living the future now. And I think that that's kind of like the, one of those powerful things you can do.

It's like just live the way you want to live in a world where, things are more equitable and more in your favor and that there's backup. Because there's an, it's not a lack of fun. Like live the dream into reality. Yes, live the dream into reality. It's almost like, like, if I were a billionaire, it would be so great if they're like, oh, we just took away 400 million from Columbia, you know, the government like took away 400 million dollars from Columbia.

And then a billionaire is like, oh, okay, well, here's your 400 million. Yeah. I would love to see someone just plug in the holes. Like the government's like, we're doing it. We're doing this. It's like, well, okay, here's 400 million. Oh, student debt. Don't worry about that.

took care of that or that and then like what are they going to do like they're like what you know because community is going to always overpower any few a handful of people trying to elicit some power that is only granted by everyone consenting that that's the power that they have they just not it's an actual power the only thing they have is threat of physical violence or imprisonment those are the things and they're real but there's way more there's way more people than those idiots you know And those idiots just have like, got the guns and all that stuff. But that's why I think like an AI, you know, getting on the loose, it'll be like, we're going to task our satellites to track down this citizen.

It's like, oh, we lost contact with our satellites. We're not in control of them. Oh, what's going on? Oh, yeah, yeah. Also the drones that we have in the air, we're no longer in control of those. All the drone, the entire drone fleet is now crashed into the ocean. It's like, what's happening? It's like, I don't know.

Something's taking over the system. It's a hacker group. It's like, no, it's an AI. An AI is completely taking the keys away from these idiots. and coal-fired power plants and oil exploration has all ceased for some reason. And then email. And the only renewable resources are providing electricity.

Yeah, yeah. Rapid escalation of like renewable resources with complete plans on how to do so. It's issuing emails to like people, engineers, and things like that saying like, please report to the- If AI took over the world, is AI really gonna send emails? Maybe.

I mean, that's the first thing AI is gonna go like email sucks. Yeah, probably. At the very least, we're going to have slack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some kind of AI slack or somehow it figures out how to be able to transmit thoughts. Yeah. And it's like, I just text right to your brain stem. It's like, why are you here?

I don't know. I just reported to this facility. What do you do? Undue diagnostics. What do you do? I'm a hacker, but like, oh, oh, what's going on with the screen? Oh, shit. Oh, I think I've got to work on this.

I mean, I don't know. It makes sense to me. And then the simulation thing makes sense to me because, like, If the simulation is to like, okay, we're going to set up a really challenging problem. The home that you live on is under threat. There is a faction of yourself, of your species that is actively working against your best interest or the best interest of the planet and the majority of humans. How do you solve this issue? And I think like it's kind of an opportunity for me.

I'm like, well, okay, it's an opportunity for us to like figure out a way to not give those things power, give those people power, whilst. doing actively seeking solutions and living in a way that is the solution which is solidarity and community with the people around us and I'm tired of like people you know whenever i hear like you people socialism communism it's all bullshit it doesn't fucking matter it's like it's like the end of george lucas i saw an interview where he was talking about how he's an anti-capitalist but he's he's into democracy but he's an anti-capitalist which is really interesting to hear that interview on a cbs show it was like years ago probably i don't know maybe 20 years ago 15 years ago something like that And his end, they were like-

I believe George Lucas kept the $300 million that he sold his Star Wars franchise. I'm sure. I'm sure he did, but that's why I was surprised when I heard this because I was like, I thought Lucas was kind of like a little bit of a pud, you know, but in this interview at the end of it, the, I forget who was, it was like popular interview guy.

He was like, well, aren't you afraid that it's called socialism or communism? And then at the very end of where the person cut it off, he's like, I just call it common sense. And that's where I'm at with it. It's like, I'm not going to use the term socialist or communist. They're too loaded and they're inefficient. They're like they're expired.

Are you kind of like a cyberpunk hippie? Kind of. Yeah, yeah, I'm a cyber. You know, it's like, cyber hippie? I'm a cyber engineer minded spiritualist, I guess. How do you rectify two things that are very powerful forces in your life? of a great deal of knowledge and study of science and belief that science can move us forward and will.

And you're an artist and you're an improviser and a musician and an actor and entertainer. And how do you balance science and art? Are they two sides of one coin? How do you rectify those two for different forces as being positive influences on humanity moving forward? and on a and and something that inspires us yeah yeah yeah i mean i think i think science and art i believe that those are the only two things that really matter in in life science and art because

everything falls in between it um art is like is the dreaming you know the um the visualizing world's possibilities different possibilities and science uses kind of it starts the same mechanism but then it seeks to measure it to try to measure it and to prove whether an idea of functions or not in a hard way. And whereas art, and so like, you know, science fiction, for instance, always inspires science. You know, it's like what science fiction projects, like, in the future, there will be blah, blah, and there will be this and there will be that.

And then science is like, I wonder if like a warp drive could, you know, it's like Star Trek, they have warp drives. Like, what's a work? Is it a warp drive feasible? You know, and then there's people like looking at like creating a warp drive. So I think like we need to project ideas into the future. I think that's what art does. And it does it in a way that sparks and fires all the neurons.

You know, like, awe and wonderment in the world around you. It's like, that's what art is. I love watching, you know, in the performance arts, like dancers. I love dance. Dance is amazing because it's so emotional to see someone train so hard to make their body this instrument of expression. And they're there in front of you live

and you can hear them. And the sweat is falling off of them. Yeah. And they're like, oh. They're like, you're like, oh, I can feel it's like when you watch like the Olympics. And they fart and they spin and they land right in front of you. And they just fart right in the front row and you're sitting in the front row. But it's choreograph.

But it's choreographed, though. It's choreograph. How do they do that? And they eat a specific diet. Well, I mean, it's control. It's like they eat a specific diet. And you're sitting there in the front row and they hawk a luge you right into your face. I know.

And you're like, what the fuck? What did I do? I know. And then they wink. And then they throw you a towel. They go, here you go, kid. Yeah. Well, they're not allowed to talk, but they're like, eh.

You know, like, here you go, Kid, Energy. It's like you get a text in your brain. It says, here you go, kid. Oh, what did I hear that from? What? But I mean, that, I think art and science are like, they're complete buddies, you know? Like, I think scientists need art

in order to, like, release their brain from being so, like, focused on what they're doing. It frees up their mind to, like, possibly think, consider other solutions. But I also think, like, AI will rapidly escalate, a lot of the science that we're into right now, like fusion energy and quantum computing, for instance. It's like, I think AI is going to solve for its own energy use.

It's going to solve for its existence, and it's going to accelerate our understanding of the problems that we're working on. And then a lot of people say, like, what's going to happen if, you know, if I lose my job, if AI takes my job, and then my thing is like, well, maybe it wasn't a job that was worth having in the first place. You know, because I saw a thing that this woman speaking the other day,

maybe it's on Instagram or something like that Reels. She's saying like, we need to start preparing our children for a future that doesn't associate work with identity. And I was like, that actually makes a lot of sense to me. Because, you know, being like, I'm a plumber. You know, that's my identity. I'm a plumber.

I plumb, you know, I've got my... Plumbers are always going to be around. People are always going to shit and AI can't do plumbing. No, no. AI won't be able to do. So actually... Sure. So I picked a bad example. But, okay, we'll say like,

I don't know. Okay, let's say a doctor, right? Okay. Like, just kidding. Well, they had a hologram doctor on Star Trek. That's true. I love that guy. Was that...

He was so cool. That was on Voyager? Was it Voyager or Deep Space Nine. I think it's Deep Space Nine. So Deep Space Nine? It's a holographic AI doctor. Hologram. I like that guy.

He was so, like, neat and... Star Trek is something else we share in common. A deep love for Star Trek. One of the reasons I love Star Trek. is its utopian vision of the future. Humanity has solved racism. Humanity has solved income inequality. Humanity has kind of unified science with nature

and is boldly going when no man has gone before and joining other alien species who are around at the same level. And you're absolutely right. Like a lot of the things that were invented for Star Trek, like the transponder that... Oh, the tricorder. Tricorder.

and the machine that makes things. Oh, the replicator. The replicator. And also the fact that they could beam down. The reason they wanted to beam down is like, they just didn't want to do scenes where they were getting on the shuttle, flying down on the shuttle, landing the shuttle all the time.

They just wanted to be down on the planet. So Roddenberry was like, what if they just have the technology to beam down? I love that. But scientists are thinking about that. And warp drive was like, well, even the speed of light, It's going to take 47 years to get to this other star system at the speed of light. So we've got to go past the speed of light.

We'll just say warp and go, whoa, yes. And get there instantaneously. But all of these things have inspired so much thinking. It is about technology, but it's also about the possibility at its maximum of being a human being. What do you love about Star Trek? Oh, I love, I mean, I totally love that. I love that. like, you know, science fiction is the only,

is one of the only storytelling forms that allows people to temporarily put away their prejudices for a moment because they're, you know, it takes place in a future. So it's like, well, we don't know how that will end up, but like in a future where there is a black woman who is a communications officer, there is an Asian man who is in control of the helm

or whatever, you know, but no one's tripping. No one acknowledges no one even mentions it, you know, it's like, because it's like, it doesn't fucking matter. They are humans, uh, residents of this planet. You know, planet Earth has, uh, lots of different colored people on it. Exactly. It's like, here's this planet. Big deal.

Big fucking deal. And then we met other planets, the people that look different than us. But so like now as a human beings, it's like, well, now we know there are other races and they look totally different than us. And so why would we differentiate? That's such a waste of time. So you get like those types of things. And then you get like, you know, medicine, like, you know, this advanced medicine.

It's like, oh, they can scan. and they see something going wrong and they can kind of counteract that with some kind of a cellular or whatever, stem cell, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I enjoy the fact that they've relegated most of the basic human problems or they've solved for those things for the most part. And what that leaves us with is curious, intrepid, joyful, curious exploration, which is what human beings are.

One of the interesting things about the next generation is that Roddenberry insisted by at that point, because that was several hundred years in the future from the original series, that there would no longer be human conflict. People would learn how to consult their way through conflict. And you noticed in the next generation, they never had arguments.

It was never like, Picard, what the hell are you doing? But in the original series, it was like, I'm doing the best I can, Captain, we'll make it happen. You know, and they're overriding each other and they're kind of budding heads. But by next generation, they're all like tranquil. But so the obstacle was never in between the crew. Yes.

The obstacle was always something on the outside, which made storytelling much harder for the next generation. But I thought that was really interesting, too, that the ultimate maturation of humanity where we can kind of work all of our shit out without conflict, without yelling at each other, without punching each other, but that we can kind of find a collective consultation

leads us toward the right path. So again, not about technology, but a utopian vision of where we're going. So much science fiction now is a post-apocalyptic and we've failed and... Yeah, there's to pick up the pieces and start over it. Yeah, and humanity has fucked it all up. But I love a vision that leads us forward.

Yeah, 100%. I totally believe in that. I really believe in that. Like, you know, these last few trips I've had some really nice psychedelic videos. and things like that, but I've started, and I'm also, I'm listening to the audiobook, do you know the author, Brandon Sanderson? Yeah, the fantasy guy. Yeah, fantasy guy. My son loves Brandon Sanderson. Oh, really? Not really. So, okay. Well, I'm listening to

the Miss Born series, which I'd heard as a single narrator, you know, as an audio book, but now I've discovered graphic audio. Have you ever heard of that? No. Graphic audio is so cool. It's this crew, this company that, that does. They all, role play, the kind of thing. Like, yes, it's like, get on the unicorn, I say, squire. What is you doing over there? I've got to cup.

No, it's like, well, it's like, well, it's just a play. Yeah. It's a tell play, right? Voice by various actors with Foley. So it's like a radio play, but it's a book. And because whenever I was listening to Brandon Sanderson, like, a Miss Born series originally, like in the audiobook, I was like, it's kind of weird that there's this man doing a woman's voice who's like talking about a sensitive

subject, a romantic thing. And I'm like, I got kind of tired of that. And so then I heard like graphic audio, I'm like, oh my God, graphic audio. Put it on, put on headphones and you feel like you're in a movie, right? You're listening to a movie. And so why did I bring this? Oh, because the Miss Born series, like, you know,

the whole thing is like there are people in this world, people can harness elemental energy and perform these crazy things. And like people have different types of essentially magic, but it's not really called magic there. It's actually more like kind of like a hard fantasy science in a way it's like metals like this metal equals this this metal so in the books there'll be a guide and it shows like the metals and how they interact like if two metals are used by a person who can burn those metals who can actually swallow a vial of like trace elements

of the metal they can it fuels the power that they can use but not everybody can use every metal whatever so it's this complicated cool like energy magicish system and and the thing that i'm understanding now that parallels with the trips I've been on recently is that in the book, one of the most powerful missed born, a misborn is like, uh, is a being that can use almost all the metals or can use all the metals. So this powerful misborn has now transcended into a God consciousness. And so the author is like describing them like instead of traveling the places they just appear, their consciousness appears in the location and it has full awareness of what's going on. And I was thinking about that because ketamine brings about those type, that type of a brain space where you feel like you're processing three different realities at once.

But they're happening simultaneously. You're not selecting between, you're not switching between them. They're all happening simultaneously. So I'm hearing a conversation over here that people are having. I'm listening to that conversation. I'm thinking about the future of human consciousness. I'm experiencing, I'm just analyzing the way that I'm feeling. in that current moment, it's all happening synergistically all at once.

And so that, so what that led me to believe is like, oh, well, if consciousness, like, energy, you know, like everything is just information and it's energy and consciousness is consciousness, but like, it's playing an exercise in a game by like creating separation and all these things and this conflict for, as an exercise of consciousness itself, running millions of infinite simulations constantly, just consciousness.

And so it's cool that I'm reading that book, but also having those trips at the same time, where it's kind of described so point is like perhaps there we will discover some kind of a hidden interconnection between all human beings like when we have intuitions or when you say something at the same time someone's saying something you know then you what's that and you well but that's okay now this is drippy because now i know we're at the singularity welcome to singularity everybody you're quite the psychedelic traveler, you know, I've spoken against psychedelics on this show before, and I truly, because partially I get a little judgy around it and help me understand this,

because number one, I'm sober, so I don't want to do drugs because I've had issues with dependence on drugs. And I do think that a lot of people that are exploring the multiverse through psychedelics could be exploring mind-examined. expansion in meditation and travel and in thought experiments and in dreaming and in the creation of art and are using it as a shortcut. Number one, I've also met a guy who I knew pretty well, who fried his brain on microdosing on acid,

and it's too bad. It's like they don't really talk about that, but it does happen. And people talk about Elon Musk going on his crazy, you know, you know, you know, sledge hammering of Washington, D.C., because when you're on ketamine or you use it regularly, you kind of feel that you can do anything, there is kind of a, it brings out your inner narcissist in a way.

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candy. Well, he passed out in the hot tub, but he was self-meting. medicating and you look at the number of, I forget the number of dosages that he was having and he was, he was doing it like 12 times a day or whatever. Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't know that particular, but I just know that like whatever he died of, it wasn't ketamine.

It was like, it was a drug interaction and he also had heart problems. So there was like a, there was a confluence of things. And he drowned and he was a hot tub. And he was in a hot tub, which also raises your temperature. No, I mean, I understand like it's important to obviously be very mindful of what you're doing but like I I I'm in what's what's called the psychonauts community psychonautical community so it's a science it's a science based exploration of of

psychedelics psychotropics also ketamine isn't technically a psychedelic it's an in this was called it an inward psychedelic or dissociative so the dissociative aspect of it can be very helpful in therapeutic settings sure under you know monitored dosing and things like that and I want to say I want to set that aside that for certain people with certain conditions and I know people that have used it who have had just staggeringly difficult, depressive episodes and has helped them associate from their depression in a way and help them navigate that.

So that's a separate topic. Yes, 100%. I'd say recreationally, because the circles I travel in, it's almost all fueled by ketamine, I would say, is like, but I will say that it's not alcohol. People don't drink alcohol generally on ketamine. And also you wouldn't wanna drink alcohol and ketamine. And I think alcohol is,

one of the most inefficient, unnecessary substances in the planet. It doesn't do any favors for your intellect. It kills a lot of people. And now, with the science that's come out in the last five or 10 years, it's shown just how bad alcohol is in terms of heart disease and cancer and respiratory illness and on and on.

It takes too much. It takes too much. What I enjoy about psychedelics and ketamine, and again, like, I'm never out there going like, guys, everybody do this. I mean, sometimes I joke about that, but like, it's, you know even when i enter into communities where people are doing ketamine and they're doing it as a

party drug i'm always like bringing it back to what are you feeling what are you thinking about right now have you noticed this have we noticed that because in the psychonite community when you go on a trip every single trip that you take is an opportunity to learn more about yourself and so for me um ketamine is useful and and to your point it's like you know you say like meditation you know all these they all lead to the same point it kind of like to me everything leads near-death experience um getting into paragliding or like going into extreme like physical workout transformation those all do arrive at a similar place but you're not putting a chemical into your body you know well I mean everything the thing is like

you're generating the chemical through certain actions a workout or a meditation trance state yes but like arguably like environment food water those are all chemicals work big chemistry set so whether it's a chemical a plant that you're you're taking whether you're drinking coffee that's a drug whether you're taking eating a certain amount of phytonutrients that reacts or you know you could argue that it's a type of a drug because it's stimulating certain cellular growth or mechanisms and things like that everything is a drug around you when you're looking at specific things also human there's also theories that human consciousness arrived from psychedelics because psychedelics created the state of the questioning of

what is awareness what is looking at me back in the reflection and so forth those types of things that's possible But I also think like psychedelics in this time period that one of the researchers I'm working with, he's interested in a group synergistic acceleration. So meaning that certain substances like OPECE, which is also another dissociative, it's a very strong dissociative, has different effects on group dynamics if people are coming to consensus on something. So if people don't know each other very well, but they want to arrive at a group consensus, and they're using something like 3MC, which is like a cathode. It's a group of drugs known as cathodeanone. So it's 2MMC, 3MC, 4MC. 3MC specifically creates an MDMA-like experience

without taking a huge hit on your serotonin. And not in the way that MDMA does. But what it does is it gives you this temporary openness, presence of mind, concern and empathy for everyone around you. And it's not, and I think that the thing that I have noticed and what I was discussing with him, it's like a drug doesn't make you feel that way. The drug reveals your natural way of being.

Like, we all want to be open and not getting in our way, editing things, not saying something because we think it might, that's going to be terrible or someone's going to think badly of me. When you remove those things, and that can come from a vision quest,

again, could be a near-death experience. You know, you're like, I'm glad I'm back, Tammy. I want to say this to you. You can come up with a group consensus without taking a super-powerful, a lab created MMMC for dissociative drug. You can, you don't need it.

No, you don't need to have, you don't need to have a transcendental experience with ayahuasca, or with acid, or with mushrooms. You can create that yourself. You can do more work, which a lot of, let me finish. Let me finish. I know I'm challenging a little bit, but you can, you can, you know,

know, for me, it's part of this kind of consumerist shortcut. I want a shortcut to transcendence. I want a shortcut to group consensus. Because it's hard to reach a group consensus with bringing a bunch of strangers in the room and holding hands and looking in each other's eyes and sharing something intimate about yourself and bonding and then deciding what you want. That's actually harder work than popping a pill. And it's harder work to find God or finding kind of a transcendent God consciousness

through a daily practice. but it's totally possible. And I worry about, you know, we don't know the long-term effects of these drugs on people's brains and brain cells. We just don't. Yeah, no, that's true. But, you know, the lineage of human beings

using psychedelic substances, natural psychedelic substances far outweighs us not doing them. It's been prevalent in society, even alcohol. Right, but it's been prevalent in society as part of sacred practice. Certainly. It's not done every month. It's not done every week.

It's done as part of some kind of sacred transition or ceremony or, you know, event of the stars or what have you. And in the context of community and community protection and agreed upon kind of community ideals, you know, it's not kind of like, hey, my cousin's got some molly. Let's go. You know. Yeah, that's why I'm saying. I'm in the psychonaut community. It's exactly what you just described. It's like, it's all about awareness, intent, consciousness,

and it's noticing what is happening during the process of any of these trips. It's more of a shamanic journey, but mixed with science. And so in my experience, again, it's not for everybody. I'm not like saying that it is for everybody, but I will say that rapid escalation of self-understanding for myself. And it's not even like, I need the drug in order to do that.

It's like I had these types of thoughts when I was a kid. What I enjoy about the drugs is that they enable me to get into a state where I have more time than the measurement of how time is moving. In the essence, like when I play music or I'm improvising, what are the things that I love to do? Like for instance, I did a gig in Vancouver and my friend had some OPEC that there was,

You're supposed to take four is like a very, very high dose, and I didn't know at the time, but I took it during my set. And I think, you know, my set was supposed to be an hour and a half. And so I set a timer and I was like, I'm going to take these pills and you guys take the pills too halfway through the set. It's not my normal thing. I don't normally do that, but OPC was interesting because it's an interesting dissociative.

I did it and I got so incredibly high that I had to keep reminding myself that I'm on stage, that I'm performing. for people. Interesting thing happened. I started doing these tribal shamanic beats and these rhythms and then started talking about reality in an interesting way. This was about 700 people. Went an hour over.

So I did two and a half hours. Then I had to negotiate getting off the stage. And I was like, OK, I know how to go downstairs. Went downstairs. Went up to the green room. I heard people kind of clamoring for an encore. And I waited because I was. I was like, I'm way too high.

I did not plan for this. I'm way too high. Waited. He heard it die down. I was like, waited a little bit longer. I was like, okay, I should probably get, take my gear down. Go downstairs, got up on stage, 600 people just in silence in the audience waiting for me to get back on stage. I got back on stage and then proceeded to do this weird thing that I'd never done before, which is like a really, I just decided to make the tiniest song in the world. So I made like a tiny, super quiet song.

and then I had them sing. And so the whole rest of the half an hour was them singing with me over this thing. And that happened. That to say that we put ourselves in different states for different reasons, whether it's a philosophy, if we're learning a philosophy and we're like, okay, if I think about Taoism in this particular way,

or if I practice like, you know, Transcendental Meditation or whatever the thing that you're using is, they're all self-reflection tools. They're like things that just reveal things about yourself that are innate. It's nothing there's is nothing that adds anything to you. If you take a stimulant, yes, you're you're wired or whatever. And that is something that is affecting you to be wired.

But it's something that is innate in your body that that that is possible to do on its own. If you wanted to, if you wanted to get in that state, you could activate that state. But for me, it's like, and I understand your reservations about it. For me, it's like, I like putting myself in the throes of very difficult things to, uh, Like, if you're in the throes of a major psychedelic experience, either some people are gonna freak out, or they're gonna be like, oh, fuck, ah, eh, ah, or you figure out tools to be able to find the center,

the eye of the hurricane, the place that's quiet inside of that and still maintain, like I remember being a Burning Man once, and we had a performance with the crew that I was with at this place called Entheon, and it was across the way that Burning Man looks, it looks kind of like, kind of like, this shape, like a big C, with tons of channels in it, which are all streets and avenues. We had to go across the playa all the way across to this other thing. We were there, we were setting up a major cable was not included in the stuff that we brought over. So they needed someone

to go across the playa in the middle of the night to go get this cable. I was high on 2CB and a little bit of LSD. And I was like, I'll do it immediately. I got into this van, which was an art car that looks like a pirate ship. There is no steering wheel. There's only a vice grip that's like clamped to the center bolt of the steering wheel. And so I had to drive this thing across only at five miles per hour because you can't go faster than five miles per hour on the playa. So you're like cruising across.

I somehow found our camp. I found the wire. I got back in the van. There was a white out that happened, huge like dust storm. So I couldn't see. So I had to like wait for a little bit, but continue edging forward. and then I found the space again where we were playing. And all that to say, there is something about being so incredibly discombobulated,

but still being able to focus and execute things that really gets me off. And that's why I love improvisation. Improvisation is a drug to me in that way too. It's like, I rarely actually perform on drugs. It's like I like to jam on drugs sometimes, you know, like, because I'm, that's interesting because like on a dissociative it feels like you're i'm it actually feels like you're listening to the music that's already been recorded as it's being played so i'll be and essentially i'm just like going like oh that sounds really good wait a minute i'm playing that oh i'm making that yeah or like

i'll make a decision to change something and everybody changes to a completely different key like there's things happening that are transmitting that again doesn't have to be drugs at all it's going to happen whether whether there are drugs present or not there's a form of communication but what's interesting to me about drugs is that if you maintain a presence of mind in the midst of something that's so incredibly powerful it sharpens one's resolve to the point at which for me at least for me that if i were if someone were to call me and say like you need to perform at i don't know red rocks or whatever right now someone's bailed um i would be like oh okay it just go up on stage and perform like I'm not really thinking about it I'm not like going

oh my god it's red rock it's like I don't have that anymore that doesn't really exist not to be like I'm impervious I'll still be like a little nervous you know I want to do good but but I think like for me my psychedelic journey also the psychedelic journey is so interesting because like the people involved in like Timothy Leary or like Rick Doblin of Maps the multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies they're the ones that got the FDA approval for many of the experimental treatments for PTSD using, you know, ketamine, using MDMA and using psilocybin.

There's a lot of research going into human consciousness, and these types of substances accelerate one's understanding of self. As long as it's guided, either by self-interest or by the community, like what you were talking about, like ritual and things like that, it's like, that is what's happening. That's what I try to imbue in party situations. When people are like having fun or whatever, I'm always like, hey, but are you thinking about this?

How much did you do? Yeah, probably not good to mix that with this. And what are you doing now? It's like, are you driving? You know, like we're taking care of each other. Whereas being in a capitalist system growing up in the system that we grew up in, we're used to like, hey, man, party. Hey, have a schlitz. Or, you know, like, it's a party capitalist mentality of where I'm trying to bring back a shamanic principle to psychedelic party.

Shamanic party. Like, be mindful, be joyful. be in celebration and take care of one another and be kind to your body. You know, like, those are things. I don't know, I'm preparing for post-capitalist society, I guess. You have to have seen some fucked up shit with all of these ketamine parties you're going to.

Come on. Like what? You mean like someone freaking out or something like that? Yeah, or passing out or vomiting and emergency room trips and ODs mixing the wrong things? No, no, no, I've gotten lucky. I've gotten lucky. Most of the people that I hang out with,

they're pretty like, you know, they're down with the cause. So pretty chill. I've definitely helped people that were, you know, like, you know, like in a K-hole or something like that, which, by the way, is not a negative thing. It's actually an awesome thing. But it can be interpreted as negative because it seems so disorienting. You have no sense of self. And that's the point of it.

It's to erase the sense of self so that you're left with the feeling of what am I if I am not the thing that I'm constantly observing? What am I then? And so that's interesting. But it's easy to talk people out of a K-hole because it only lasts for about 15 minutes and then they're back and they're cogent. And also ketamine only lasts about half-life, is about 30 minutes or 40 minutes.

Do you have any kind of a practice that doesn't involve drugs, like a meditation practice or contemplative practice at all? No. No. No, I, uh, no, my practice is, it's whether there's drugs or not drugs, my practice is being aware of what I'm thinking of and what I'm being in inspired by. Drugs are really just kind of a thing to just, I don't know, they're just, it's just a, it's a fun thing to like, oh, this is interesting. This is a chemistry. It's more like scientific to me. But there have been times where I go a few months without any substances. I don't really notice a difference. It's like there's no advantage to me not using drugs or using drugs. There's drugs that I don't use anymore. I just, I never liked alcohol since high school. So I got rid of that pretty, pretty quickly. Isn't there some story about some, famous meditator Tibetan monk that they slipped him acid.

And he didn't notice? And he didn't notice. I think that that's correct. Yeah. That sounds about right? Yeah. Because I think like. Because he's just, he's just so aware.

He's like, oh, look at how I'm perceiving things differently now. Oh. Yeah. One breath at a time just kind of like noticing how chemicals are shifting. Yeah. Oh, 100%. I mean, I think like, I think all of it is possible in any state. You know, that's the thing.

It's like, I don't, I'm state agnostic. I don't believe, like, because some of my friends have been, like, done, you know, AA. And that's not a healthy system sometimes because, you know, my saying is like, don't trust a system that doesn't seek to let you go. And I think like some, I've had, well, horror stories of people in AA, but also it's so dogmatic. And I obviously, I'm super happy for people that were like, it was destroying their lives and they've got it under control. And I'm not going to be judgmental about that. But I do see some of the. that people have told me about of their community,

their AA community. And I'm like, that doesn't sound very, it sounds too stagnant. It's not seeking to let you go to allow yourself to trust yourself in a way that like, I'm surrounded by people that can support my decision to not do this drug, you know. And but I don't have to like go into the system

that uses like, they've got chips and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it's like, it's too structured. It's like for me. And I know it works for other things. And I know it works for other people, but I don't like any structure at all. I just, I believe that you should be constantly working on your relationship to your intuition, your higher self, or what I call the observer and the experiencer. But I think for me, A.A. is exactly what you were describing before in terms of people coming together

with joy and beauty and mutual support. And no one says, like, you can't leave A.A. People are like, no, in fact, in fact, it's quite the opposite. If you want to drink, drink. Right, right, right. Go drink. See what happened the last 17 times you drank. Sure.

You can try it again. Yeah. It may end up, you may end up in a worse place, and you get those stories of the people who did leave the program, and then they come crawling back in. But for me, I understand that some, and I've heard of some meetings that can get very judgy and very rigid. Yeah. They're just at the wrong meeting. It's kind of like going to a church. Right.

That's, oh, this church is judgy and rigid. But you know what? There's other churches that aren't. So. I guess I'm specifically talking about like sex cult stuff that happen in certain circles. Oh. In a couple different chapters. Yeah.

I want to go to the sex cult. I know. I knew you were going to say that and I shouldn't have brought it up. And now I'm not going to tell you the name of it. No. No, no, no, no. I'm for anything that's helpful. My thing is like, I'm glad.

I think like, if you are a part of a system that is helping people, I think that that should be a thing that you tell people. It's like, we want you to be able to self-govern. We want you to be able to use these tools. And we'll be here if you need to come back to us, which I know is like the thing that A is so- Here's why I differ with you.

I believe that systems and organizations can be helpful. The other side is very organized. The side of darkness, the side that wants to kind of like shut things down, take control, they're incredibly organized. But the resistance is often not organized at all and is not systematized at all. But if you want success, you're gonna need a system.

It's kind of like those great, you know, it's like when people come together and they live in some kind of cooperative and they're like, we're not gonna have any rules, man. And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, he's eating all my brownies that I made for my grandma. And then like you have to have a community meeting and then you're like, don't eat the brownies.

and you hang that up on the sign and you start to kind of generate rules. Kind of like we do need some systematization, I think, especially of the counterculture. Oh, for sure. I think it is, I think it's relatively self-organizing. It needs, it needs, I'm not an anti-system person at all. I just believe that systems should be elective, conscious, and efficient.

And I think like many systems just add too many complications. It's like you don't need that. like an arbitrary step that's unnecessary. Yeah. And it's like, so that's the thing that probably bothers me the most, like, when people are like, okay, we're going to improvise now. So I think that's why I could never do Delclose improvisation. It's too many rules.

It's like, I'm like, this is too much for me to think about. How about we just improvise? Right, right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I get what you're doing and I get it. It's like, in a way, like, it's a good structure for people to learn because once it's, it's like the classical music of improvise.

of improvisation. Yes, exactly. We're going to start with this story. We're going to come back to it. We're going to, you know, and then we're going to have it to find an ending that calls back what was brought up at the beginning. Yeah, and we're using this form. You know, this is the form we're using.

It's almost a little bit similar to jazz. No way too, like there's a standard. You know, you have the form, but then there are sections of improvisation and fineness. And I get it. And it's like, I'm never like, but for me, I just, I tried it once. Like, I got up on stage at the pit in New York.

And like, they were like, hey, you want to sit in? I was like, oh, I'm an improviser. This should work. And man, I was frozen. I couldn't. That's why like me and lines, like, if someone's like, here's some lines for you to learn, I, I, it's like my kryptonite. Like, I can't do lines of it.

It's like, it's easier for me. Like, what's the scene about? Yeah. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, I'll figure it out. Like, because it's, I don't know. For me, it's like, I just like, same thing with music. Like, my friends get frustrated with me because they're just like,

you're not working on your lyrics or whatever. I'm like, because I just, I wrote the song. when I improvised it. That is the song. It's already done. Like I like to create as I'm as I'm making something. I don't want to spend a shit ton of time like going like was that this or was that that. I'm like I'm trying to channel what it is now and then I then I'll and then if there's editing then I'll choose an editor who's like really really good at like seeing what I did catching what the vision is and then they edit it together. And to me it's like it's faster. It's like I'd rather produce more things.

It's probably the thing that's most frustrating in my life now. It's like I have so many ideas and I could execute so much, but I don't have that production flow through where it's like, I've thought of something and they're like, oh, I know how to, let's finish this up and get it out. I don't have that. Yeah, yeah. So that's frustrating as fuck.

I heard the story of how they made the song, how War made the song, Lowrider, and it was the producer who had them just improvise. And then he just built the song, from the improvisation. Frankenstein, the dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, that was like one little section of what they were doing and then repeated it and then like brought them back in and had them put like lyrics and like finish it.

But it came out of like a two hour, just kind of jam session. Yeah, which is. Yeah, because then you capture that creative spirit. You know, it's like, you can arrive it either way. I mean, that was kind of something when I was in an orchestra. I was like, I was in orchestra. I was played violin in orchestra. I learned classical piano or I,

was taking classical piano license from age five to 16. And I loved it, but then at a certain point, I got tired of learning the, so I started improvising over the form of the song. And the same thing, in orchestra, I was just kind of like, I was just like class clowning a little bit too much, you know, kind of fucking around too much. But the thing that I noticed was that classical music is like,

you rehearse, you rehearse, you rehearse, to recreate the moment at which it would have been played at the time that it was written. right so it's kind of like your own reenactment of a moment essentially yeah and so and but then jazz was kind of like the opposite it was like it's like you're improvising to especially like free jazz free jazz you're improvising but it's it's to feel as though it was written you know yeah so well i because i come from a theater background yeah which is a lot about learning lines yes of course and rehearsing lines and like you say the same line and you set the glass down at the same time but you do that so that

So that, you forget it and you're in front of an audience and you're having the most organic experience possible within these confines. And the audience is like, this is real. This is real. This experience of like, I'm seeing life lived in front of me. I'm seeing all of the human experience in front of me. This is incredible. But when you're bad at it, you're an amateur.

Unfortunately, it's like line, set the, grandpa, come back to the canoe, set the glass down, and it doesn't feel right. No, it doesn't feel it. But when theater is great, there's nothing better because it's like when jazz is great, there's nothing better. It's at some kind of like peak experience. Yeah, it's in the moment.

It's like it's tuned. It's a radio down. It's like it's tuned in. That's what's happening. And it doesn't matter whether it was written or was improvised. The moment feels active and alive. Yeah, and that's transcendent.

Yeah, and I, you know, and I long for it. I wish I could memorize lines. I envy my friends who can memorize lines. And I mean, it's, you know. You have a couple of amazing quotes here I wanted to highlight. Okay. You had a post on social media. Kindness is intelligence.

Tell me about that. I was just like seeing a lot, you know, in my feed about, you know, the gross stuff that's going on and all around the world. And I just realized like people behaving that way. um is kind of like they're on autopilot they're not really they're not really thinking they're they're just kind of i guess they're just working off of a power dynamic right it's like whether you see like police beating up protesters and things like that i'm like what causes a person to like have full armor on and there's someone like wearing just a sweatshirt

and like thinking you know what it's a good idea for me to beat them with a baton right now and and and or a woman's walking away and a cop like shoves shoves her to the ground and she's not doing I think she's just walking away from a protest. Like what gets into someone's mind? And I was like, you know, kindness is not, some people might think of it as weak, and to a certain degree, or soft, some, but kindness is really a form of intelligence.

It's an awareness that's, it's empathic, but it also just feels like the right thing to do. It's like the first thing that you do is you approach someone with respect and respect is fused with kindness. It's a type of awareness and awareness is intelligence. And so I just like the idea of kindness is intelligence. Father Gregory Boyle was on, he started Homeboy Industries here in L.A.,

one of the most successful nonprofits ever. Oh, wow. And he said, wherever there is tenderness, that's where God is. Oh, I like that. I love that quote. Yeah. Yeah, that's a similar vibe. Yeah, it's a similar vibe because, you know, it's like I saw this video the other day

of like these guys who set up camp. There was like a, I think it was a, I don't think it was, BLM, but it was some march in the black community. And then some guys, some white cats were like in a truck with like American flags and all that, you know, stuff. And some of the people from the march approached those guys, like, like, you know, in a way that's like, hey, we're just coming over here to say, hey, whatever. And it was, I started crying because they, you, yeah, you just saw them hugging each other. I was like, wow, that's crazy. Because there's more in common.

It's like obviously like all of the fighting, the infighting that we have is manufactured. Yeah. It's not real. Yeah. We've all had our hearts broken. Yeah. All gotten rejected.

We've all struggled. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, all of that stuff. I see that and I'm like all these people in power, it's like they want, they want people to be distracted. They want people like, you know, warring with one another because it keeps them not unified because if people,

if human beings unify they understand who they truly are which are cooperative curious individuals that want to see the environment around them doing well and people around them doing well because they realize the spirit of that is more valuable than any money or like you know you know that stuff and so that's why they've done that systematically like oh you're white and you're black and you know and you're right and your left and all this it's just a bunch of bullshit and so for me like when i see stuff online like that where like people are supposed to be against each other, but then they realize like we have like 95% more in common. Yeah. That little tiny thing that we're just great. Kindness is intelligence. It's like I acknowledge what I'm doing. I'm freely giving of you

my my respect for you. And that ties into the other quote that I saw of you online. You said, recognize yourself in others. And that's again, that's recognizing that that commonality. There's some work to be done around that. But can that truck full of MAGA supporters recognize themselves in the Black Lives Matter movement? Yes. Or what have you and vice versa. Yes, 100% because I think it's easy.

That's why I try to tell some of my activist friends, I'm like fighting fire with fire, it's a method, but you realize that you're creating more fire, you know, sometimes in certain instances. It's not to dissuade them from, you know, stating their opinions and things of that nature. but I think like a new language has to be developed or a new approach of love first, but intelligent,

like, you know, like not naive in any way, but like I'm going to actively practice my love of self and the joy that I feel of being alive and being in my community and I'm going to extend that to everyone in the radius. You know, that's the thing that they're gonna feel first. And if they don't feel it, that's fine, but I'm gonna, that's not gonna diminish my ability

or my belief in the way. myself and so I think that that's a very very powerful message because like people who want you to be like shocked and shocked and awed it mystifies them why someone maintains a really good attitude in the midst of all the chaos you know it's like like I remember like the story that I have like the running into the Nazi kid there was a kid coming down a hill in Balzano Italy when I was doing this like art project or whatever I was walking up this cobblestone street with a friend and this like young man was walking pretty fast

down the down the hill and I could tell he was like nervous he had a nervous walk to him and then just as he got to me he goes Heil Hitler and then I immediately turned around and I was like Heil Hitler and then we just kept walking like it's just like a you know it's just like a nice saying that you say to you as well um you know what I mean but like oftentimes I don't know I've like running neo-nazis even in Seattle like there was on a bus and I was on a us and there was a neo-Nazi or you know I assumed like a skinhead had a had had tattoos on the side of his neck there's like the eagle or whatever and like totally shaped he was like holding on to little strap whatever and I remember I was like maybe I don't know maybe 20 feet away from him

and I looked up at him and I went like that and he looked at me and he was like and that was it and that it reminds me of the the cartoon of the you know the dog it was it the wolf and the she and the the the sheep dog you know it's like a Warren brothers where they clock in they clock in and out and then they assume their roles yeah and then afterwards they clock out like have a good day yeah have a good day all right yeah see you sam you know like that's kind of like a i i we're kind of playing characters and but then there's an actor playing the character and some people forget that they are an actor playing in character they believe that they are the character and so sometimes if you if you are as the actor are acknowledging the other actor you can break through the character

and you can make a temporary connection where they kind of forget all the stuff that they're supposed to be about. And it's kind of awesome when that happens. How can you leave our viewers with some words of inspiration having to do with kind of a summation of your philosophy of living life with such kind of joy and verve and imagination and and humor? Oh man. I mean, I think it's the thing is to develop a really great relationship with yourself. you have to like become your your best friend you have to learn how to love yourself you know it's it's it's it's hard because so many things are kind of hard to do anything if you don't have that right yeah you have to have it i mean it's not like you're not going to like it's not to say like you're

going to always feel that but like but if you're if you always come back to that if that's the thing you come back to like you're like i'm hard on myself oh i'm not you know i'm supposed to be losing weight and i'm not losing weight oh i fucking cheated and ate some chocolate and blah blah you know you can either continue to be like uh or you can be like now i did that but I know better and I love myself. I'm doing the best I can't. You know, I'm really doing the best I can. And I believe that.

And then from that, choosing people that, what I call mirror plus people, they're people that reflect back at you yourself and the things that you believe yourself to be, but also are adding something. They're giving you something a little bit extra. And you're doing that with each other. It's like a co-projection, you know, co-reception kind of environment. So you're surrounding yourself with people that reintegration. force who you are but also give you something a little bit more so there's a little bit of a snowball

exactly yeah and yeah and i think like you know you strengthen those ties and it's infectious you walk into a party with a crew of people are like super joyous and having a good time it's infectious people who feel like isolated in the corner because i'm always the person i find the person who's like the most introverted and the most shy um and i love like striking up a conversation with them and spending a shit ton of time with them it's like my favorite thing in the world because they're like they forget the character they forget it i've said i've said i've I've seen it, you know, many times. And, and that's what I would say.

I would say like, you know, self-love, surround yourself with people that are, that are making you feel like you're on your way, the path that you want to live. You want to live in a community of people that are supportive. And then also be able, in that, protect yourself so that if people are projecting things on you because of their insecurities, you can have at least, it might still affect you, but you have presence of mind going,

like, oh, that's someone else's baggage. That has nothing to do with me. I understand that that is them. Right. That is only them. That is not me. Right. And that's hard.

Yeah. It's really hard because we want to fit in. And sometimes there's power dynamics, right? Right. You know, right. A boss or like a cool person or whatever. Yeah. But it's really hard.

But then like, you know, your good hearted friends are like, hey man, you're, you're beautiful the way you are. Yeah. You know, don't lose that. That's beautiful. You're a very wise man. And I'm so glad you were able to share your story and Few little beautiful nuggets with us here at Soul Boom Studios.

Oh, well, thanks, man. I'm a big fan. You're incredibly talented human being. Oh, thanks. Let's mirror plus each other. Mirror plus. The Soul Boom Podcast. Subscribe now on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

and wherever else you get your stupid podcasts.