Soul Boom - Why Pete Holmes Stopped Looking for God

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

Comedian Pete Holmes (Silly Silly Fun Boy, Crashing) returns to dig deep into Christianity, non-duality, consciousness, and what it means to find God after your faith falls apart. He opens up about divorce, depression, anxiety, sexual shame, and how the comedy community that inspired Crashing carried him through one of the lowest periods of his life. They also explore why “everything belongs,” how awareness can loosen anxiety, what Jesus teaches us about losing, and whether AI has become humanity’s newest golden calf. SPONSORS!👇 If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NOCD can help. Book a free 15 minute call to get started: 👉 ⁠⁠https://www.nocd.com Cowboy Colostrum (promo code: SOULBOOM for 25% OFF!) 👉 ⁠⁠https://cowboycolostrum.com/soulboom⁠ Nutrafol 👉 (Promo code: SOULBOOM for $10 OFF + FREE shipping!) ⁠⁠https://nutrafol.com⁠ Fetzer 👉 ⁠⁠https://fetzer.org⁠⁠ Cozy Earth 👉 Go to ⁠⁠https://cozyearth.com/soulboom⁠⁠ for up to 20% off! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⏯️ SUBSCRIBE!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠👕 MERCH OUT NOW! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠📩 SUBSTACK!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  FOLLOW US! IG: 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://instagram.com/soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: 👉 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tiktok.com/@soulboom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  CONTACT US! Sponsor Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Work with Soul Boom: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Send Fan Creations, Questions, Comments: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Executive Produced by: Kartik Chainani Executive Produced by: Ford Bowers, Samah Tokmachi Companion Arts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Which camera do I Krasinski to? All of them. That guy was a bit much, huh? What a asshole. Won't even come on my show. Nobody wants to know what Jack Ryan thinks about the afterlife. Now look at the camera. Say welcome to Soul Boom.

Welcome to Soul Boom. Hey there. It's me, Rain Wilson. And I want to dig into the human experience. I want to have conversations about a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep with our favorite thinkers, friends, and entertainers about life, meaning, and idiocy. Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast. A quick shout out to our sponsors. NoCD. To learn more about starting OCD therapy with NoCD. Visit NoCD.com and book a free 15-minute call with their team.

That's NOCD.com. Cowboy Colostrum. For a limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to Cowboycolostrum.com slash soul boom and use the code Soul Boom at checkout. Neutrafall Men. dot com and enter promo code soul boom for $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. Fetzer. You can explore their spiritual solutions library and learn more at fetzer.org. That's Fetzerz.org. CozyEarth.

Head to cozyEarth.com and use my code soul boom for up to 20% off. That's code soul boom for up to 20% off. Enjoy the show. So this game is called the act off. We're going to have an acting competition. same character, same situation, same lines, we'll see who brings the most mojo to it. Okay? So the situation is as follows.

One of my favorite musicians from my youth was the jazz guitarist Pat Mathini. I was kind of like a nerdy jazz head when I was younger. And he has an album with the greatest name of an album of all time. And it is this. It is. As Wichita Falls, so falls, Wichita Falls. Is Wichita Falls in Wichita? I think it's nearby. I think there's Wichita and Wichita Falls.

I think they're nearby. I don't know. And they're intermingled. Could be. It's all the same. It's all one. That's right. This is all one Canada.

This is not that. This is called non-Canadian. We're going to play 80s Fusion guitar player Pat Metheny. and the phone rings and he says hello and then it's someone that he loves maybe his wife and we say hello again and then the wife delivers some really bad news and he says we say what should he say okay just okay should we do that yeah we're just okay hangs up the phone and then in the moment afterwards says as Wichita Falls so falls Wichita falls out of his grief discomfort yeah born it's a poetry yeah comes out of him and then then he realizes that he has a

great fucking title for an album oh great I love that okay so we're going we're going on a little roller coaster ride so it's uh it's Pat Mathini Fusion jazz guitarist. Yeah, yeah. And hello. Hello. Hello. Hello wants to answer the phone.

Yeah. And hello. Yeah. You can use your cell phone, but this is before cell phones because I don't, I don't even know. This is his landline. Oh, yeah. Okay. He's playing with the cord.

Twirl it around. Yeah. Okay. Masturbating with. The, and then hello and then gets the really bad news. Okay. hangs up the phone, says this line. And then has a realization.

Okay. So, ready? I'm going to go first. Okay, good. Unless you want to go first. I've always done it where I've gone first. Go first. Okay.

Here we go. Okay. Okay. Okay. Oh. No commentary. Come on. Good world building.

I mean. Really? I'm in the studio with you. No, we're not in an improv show. Okay. This is like there's a three camera set up. Wow. Like we need quite.

No, but I'm the director. I'm the director. I've had it with your ship. Oh, wow. Are you going to comment all the way through? No, no, no. I won't comment anymore. Oh, my God.

Hello. Hello. As Wichita Falls. So falls, Wichita Falls. Rodney? I threw in an extra line. You can you can use Rodney too. You're still an under four.

All right. What's his name? Pat? That was excellent. Thank you. I don't like Pat. Pat Mathini. Pat Mathini. Yeah, you're Pat Mathini. Okay. Ready? Here we go. And action. Hello. Pat Mathini. Hello. Is Wichita Falls? So, Fawls, Wichita Falls. My dog's dad.

Bravo. Bravo. Excellent. Hard to follow the R.W. Well done, though. No. It's amazing. Well. Well. Yours was a lot. little more comic judd apatow yeah yeah yeah yeah you were a little more in that not vulnerable enough to give myself entirely to the scene not for free at least no that wasn't why i just wanted to when you follow someone who does it correctly the only choice is to do it incorrectly you know as as wichita falls so falls wichita falls wichita falls wait that's a good seem to, we come up with it together as Wichita Falls.

So falls. To Fals. Which, let's take it again from the top. Five, six, seven. Heroin. Big problem in the yes. Thanks for joining the soul boom act off.

Thank you. That's it? That's it. Let's get real. Have you ever had a thought that is so strange, dark, or completely unlike you, that your brain immediately goes, oh, excellent. let me turn this over and over and over and over again for the next six hours. Folks, this last year, I have been struggling with OCD.

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virtual and covered by insurance for over 138 million Americans. It also includes support between sessions so you're never facing OCD alone. To learn more about starting OCD therapy with noCD.com and book a free 15-minute call. with their team. That's nocd.com. Hey folks, for a long time, I just thought that feeling bloated, tired, and vaguely punished after eating was part of the meal. You eat, your stomach becomes a kind of weather system, and you go to sleep. But it turns out your gut can use actual support. And I'm not talking about some kind of vague wellness potion with a leaf on the label, something simple and nutrient

dense that works with your body. That's where cowboy colostrum comes in. And mix it into my morning, coffee, the vanilla in the coffee is great. The strawberry with milk tastes like strawberry milkshake. Cowboy colostrum is 100% made in America from 100% American grass-fed cows. It's whole colostrum, full fat, high-end protein, and rich in bioactives like growth factors and immunoglobulins. It supports gut health, and when your gut is in better shape, everything else starts to follow. Digestion, bloating, skin clarity, hair health. For a limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. head to cowboy colostrum.com slash soul boom and use the code soul boom at checkout. That's 25% off when you use code soul boom at cowboy colostrum.com slash soul boom.

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full-size two-and-one shampoo and conditioner, plus a hair serum. It's a $93 value, plus 20% off your subscription. Take advantage of this great deal at NutraFall.com. That's NutraFall.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com. You know what it is, Rady? Because this is a spiritual podcast, I actually think swearing,

and including things like selfishness, shameful things, embarrassing things, embarrassing thoughts, I think is, I'm saying this to you as a friend, not defensively. I think it's deeply spiritual. I think being known as the guy that you don't quite know how to or who to recommend him to is really exciting for me. I think an hour should be loud, strange, confusing, moving, helpful, make you feel less alone than confusing again.

Like, I want to be like a journey. I want to be like a hobbit journey. And I want you to make your camp in a weird place where like, why is he talking about sex for so long? And then like a U-turn into like the euphoric taste of our true nature. And then again, back to poop or whatever it is. And there's something about an unembarrassed person, I think is really healing to people.

I know it's healing to me. Because when I watch a comedian that is so at peace with their shadow... And their inconsistencies. And their inconsistencies. That's why every story I tell in this special is a story of when I let myself down. But I'm delighting in it and sharing it.

And that is, if you'll allow it, soul boom, holiness. I'm not saying I'm holy. I'm saying it's whole. It's including all of it. That spirituality or loving God means no naughty language, don't acknowledge your private parts, and don't acknowledge your anger, your envy, your shame, all these things. I'm saying, it's all, everything belongs.

The great Richard Gore wrote a book called Everything Belons. I think that is a great way to summarize it. Like if the elevator doors were closing and I had to explain spirituality to you, I would say, everything belongs. Thank you for everything. And then as I close, and then I just, down to hell. I don't know why I'm in my own. And your erect penis gets closed in it.

Get caught in the door and ejaculates blood. Of course. See? Which spells out. I love you, God. You've done it. You've done it. You see?

You did it. What I did. But you did it perfectly. Great minds do think alike because I'm all with you. I dropped plenty of F bombs on this spirituality podcast. Yeah. This ain't no Krista Tippett, folks. And she's very nice.

Nice, lady. I love her podcast. I'm not trying to dis her, but she's not an F-bomb dropper. And, you know, I did that Mormon SNL, Studio C, which you did. And you told me about it. And I loved it. I don't have an aversion to like family-friendly stuff. What you're talking about in terms of looking at spirituality through this lens of inclusivity,

where there is not a separation where there's not a separation between the sacred and the profane. that there can be mysterious links that transcend and hold everything together in all of these different arenas. But you grew up, maybe not grew up, but for a spell, you spent some time in the evangelical church, which has a very limited idea about what is accepted as spiritual and what is not, by and large. Not everyone in that milieu or that way. No.

So this has been an incredible. journey to watch your journey. I mean, I didn't know your stand-up before the show crashing, which I loved. And I think it's a genius show. Oh, thanks. And a lot of young people are discovering crashing, by the way. I've been hearing people talking about it. Oh, that makes me happy.

That's great. But I want to talk about this, the arc of this path. Yeah. From Quaker School to Evangelical to divorce, hitting bottom, to Rom Doss, flirting with Rom Das and now the Rupert Spira non-duality kind of... Yeah, last time I saw him, we talked about you. Yeah, yeah. Did he do it yet?

He hasn't done my show yet. I really want to get him on. And I think, you know, talk about everything belongs. A more limited approach belongs as well. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't want everyone to be like me. I don't want Bill Maher to believe in oneness. I don't want you to mirror my beliefs.

and I don't resent my church for understandably encouraging politeness and sweetness and general. All those things are wonderful, fine things. I do resent your past church for limiting what it is to be a Christian within the lens of kind of a Fox News scope of change. Like, for instance, we need to change society. Let's make sure that there's no trans athletes. Like, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where, like that's as opposed to climate change, let's say.

Like really what's more important. Right. I do resent that. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm not speaking of the church as a whole. I'm speaking of my experience. I think you know that. Yeah.

I'm talking about 1993 going to an evangelical church in Boston, outside of Boston. No, we could point fingers or whatever you want to do and talk about how things could be better. I'm just saying like what I was given and how I was raised had its place in my life. You transcend and include. So there was a time in my life when I would have been like those dingbats or whatever and shook my fist to old man Yel's at Cloud kind of style. But that's that served its purpose. And now I like I do feel like I've transcended that. But I also like to include it.

it's a part of who I am. And I even have a warm feeling kind of thinking about Mike Allen, my youth pastor, or Pastor Mac, my pastor, Pastor Wilkerson. These are sweet, good people that were helpful. Wilkerson's a dick, but yeah. I love that. He's the only one who might see this, so I love that you called him. What came to mind when we were talking about all that,

and these things do have a place, like a church led by, me might be a mess. You know what I mean? There's a reason I don't I don't lead a church. Like, I'll put it this way. You should lead a church. I don't want to keep interrupting, but honestly, you should, why not? We could talk about that. Richard Rohr talks about needing to have a container. Ramdaa says you have to be somebody before you can be nobody. What I'm doing is, as strange as it sounds, I make a lot of efforts in recognizing myself to be nobody. but that's not a great thing to tell, say, my daughter, who I would teach a way more traditional, conventional,

kindness, generosity, patience, gentleness, peacefulness, all these things. Later, we can get into the like, isn't it weird that your ego is just an idea? But that's not very helpful when you're a teenager, necessarily. A lot of people are jumping to non-dual stuff pretty quick because of the internet, Donald Glover,

because of the internet, it's a great album. They find this stuff very quickly, stuff that you used to have to climb a mountain and talk to a, you know, an an an an an nuncyate. Yeah, yeah. You'd have to really like, I'll tell you, but you'd be like, I'll tell you, but you have to sleep on your head for six weeks. And then he'd tell you, now you can just get on YouTube. And what's actually happening, Rupert was talking about this. A lot of young men are becoming non-dual.

And then they don't want to leave the house. They don't move out of their parents' place. They don't want to get jobs because they understand there is a kind of a nihilistic way of interpreting non-duality. And he's like, he's really. really adamant. It's beautiful. He's like, no, go get in relationships, make, make mistakes, get jobs, move out, make something, say something, contribute to the big ocean that we're in. But if I live in my parents' basement and play video games all day, that's still, I'm still one with everything. Yeah, that's true. And there's still total spiritual fulfillment there. So why should I?

I know. Well, there's something to be said about relative. Mom, give me a pizza. DeJourne. What came to mind when we were talking about my old church, and I say this, I hope, with compassion, is they had a true love waits Bible. So there was this movement called True Love Waits, which was Wait Until You're Married to Have Sex. And the number of verses... That's a Radiohead song, and I never connected the dots. True Love Wates?

Yeah. It's on In Rainbows. Yeah. On the, I believe on the like the additional track. The back end of it? The back end of it. Great record. Amazing record.

My favorite record. My absolute number one favorite record. Of not just the radio head of everybody. Of everybody. It might be my favorite record. Oh, just above blood on the track. sorry the national maybe even alligator beats i i don't think it's a better record but it's better to me i know get out i remember listening to the national driving across northern oregon on the eastern

side no flaccid flaccid as a as a as a as a as a dead sea horse and singing to boxer you know what's that one Violet? High Violet? Yeah. No, that's a different album. It's a different album, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Violet? Green gloves. Yeah, green gloves. Just singing, just... Boxer's the record that came out

right after my ex-wife left me. Oh. So it marked a time in my life when I needed a brooding male voice to be like... He has this line on Boxer where he goes, I'll get money, I'll get funny again. And I remember here, because I wasn't funny. Like when my wife left me, I just was like, just a sour puss. It was kind of funny, but you know, I was drinking and just sad.

And I remember it said, I'll get money, I'll get funny again. Did you weep to that album? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I used to listen to the song Raincoat by Counting Crows. I need a phone call. I need a raincoat. You know that song?

I don't. It's unbelievably beautiful. And I was doing a show in Orlando, Florida. And what I would do is I would go to the supermarket before the show. It was a college. because you don't want to run into college students that were at your show while you're buying a pint of vodka and a pack of cigarettes. Oh, okay. A pint's not that much.

Anyway, I don't drink anymore. Back then it wasn't that much. I'd do the show, kind of sleepwalk through it because I'm deeply depressed because my wife had left. Then I went back to my hotel room, put raincoat on or please bleed by Ben Harper. Great sad guy songs. Just sad person songs. Had the patio open because I was smoking illegally. I'm a bad boy.

What can I say? Getting drunk. And in the distance, I could see Disney World. And they were doing the fireworks display. And I could see Tinkerbell on the zip line going back and forth, going, you can fly, you can fly. And just joy. And I was the opposite of joy. Just like, ugh.

And what's weird, Rainy is I. The happiest place on earth. And the saddest man on earth. Yes, exactly. But I look back on that sort of fun. They talk about everything belonging. That's a part of my story, too. I've transcended it, but it's a part of me.

And I'm grateful. Like if you were, but if you went through a heartbreak or something, I would be more useful to you because I'm like, let me tell you about my night in Orlando. It was so sad. But go back. You were about true love waits. Anyway, the number of verses in the Bible that even address intercourse,

let alone waiting to get married to have intercourse. Look, I wish I was smarter about the Bible, but I would wager at hazard, I guess, and say it's about five. and say it's about five. I would say maybe three. Even less, yeah, fewer. They made an entire Bible called the True Love Waits Bible.

Now, that's interesting. Why? Because teen pregnancy is a public sin. Coveting your neighbor's wife Bible doesn't exist. Right. Because that's a private sin. We're actually speaking corporately. We're fine with that.

You know what I'm saying? Like, we're not as a corporation. Well, also, but you can't see it. So you make the True Love Weights Bible, because you can't have a congregation filled with pregnant teens. It's a very consequential, if you want to call it a mistake. Or everyone knows your congregation. It's like being a basketball team.

And we're like, we're the holy rollers. And everyone has neck tattoos or whatever. Like it just doesn't, the optics are wrong. Right. So I'm grateful for that time in my life. And we could talk about that more. And I think I'm on the right trajectory. I wouldn't have forced my views that I have.

have now on me when I was 28, which is when I got divorced. But it is what set me on the right path and finding Ram Dass and then later finding Rupert. One of the things that we have in common is that we have both been on a journey of being entertainers, actors, comedians. I'm not really a comedian. But, and we've been on spiritual journeys at the same time. And there's very few people in Hollywood that wrap their heads around that or

or recognize that or speak about it. Yeah. So you do speak about it. You also tell fart jokes, which is delicious and pungent. But again, I'd love to hear about these intersecting stories because, frankly, there's not a whole lot of people in showbiz that I can talk to this about. The bullet points are I was raised evangelical. I really thought spirituality meant not swearing, which again goes back to why I swear so much.

not having sex, not doing drugs. You could drink because that was legal, which is really weird. Well, wines in the Bible. Yeah, exactly. I was one of those guys. Once, like, weed became legal, we were like, maybe we can do that. And once they said ass on Melrose Place, I was like, maybe we can say ass now. Like, I was really getting my cues from the culture.

But then my wife, my first wife, obviously, left me. She fell in love with somebody else. They were having an affair. It was devastating for me. But that's what crashing. is about it. I fell into the deep end of comedy. That's sort of the community that caught me when I was falling. And what an unlikely place to find redemption because comedians, and I say this with all the respect and love, are a bunch of pirates. Like, they really are just like swashbuckling

maniacs, especially back then. Yeah. Oh, yeah. If what we are as bad, then way worse. You tell a story about T.J. Miller, like, bailing you out or casting you in a film or something like that. Well, T.J. was shooting, she's out of my league, the Jay Baruchel movie, right when I got divorced. I wasn't divorced, right when I had found out. So if you remember a time when you have like a recurring sadness, like a consistent sadness, that's when your wife leaves you and everything you thought was your life is kind of gone. It's like wearing that coat they give you at the dentist, that heavy lead coat. So it's not like you feel sad sometimes. It's like you wake up and you're like, oh, right. And you go to bed with it. and it's there all day. And TJ was beautiful and was like, hey, I'm shooting this movie in Pittsburgh. You're not doing anything except like killing yourself.

Like with, I don't mean suicide. I mean like cigarettes, food, alcohol. He was like, just come. I don't know a lot of people that would just be like, invite like a depressed sack of potatoes. Because what I noticed, when you're divorced, especially when your wife leaves you,

There's a reason why cuck is like an insult, right? Like, you've been cuckold. Like your wife left you. There's all these implications. When your wife leaves you, you see it everywhere in our language and our insults. I went and saw the movie Troy and Brad Pitt, who I love, was like, what's wrong? You couldn't satisfy your wife? Like some character's wife had left him.

And I was like, Brad, no. So you're emasculated, humiliated, whatever. Maybe humiliated is a better point. And the married people don't want to be near you because they, I really think, were almost like superstitious, we think it's contagious. Wow. Like a newly divorced guy will pour oil in the ear of the married guy and be like, it's actually the best.

So people quarantine you. And then the single people, I don't know why they didn't want it, maybe I'm just not that pleasant, but I was very alone. And TJ did pick up the phone and was just like, just come, stay. And I stayed. And I was there. I don't know how long, but, you know, there was something confusing about how beautiful it could be. And it wasn't just TJ

was other friends, but TJ, certainly one of them, guys that would just take you out and get you drunk. I know that's, we're supposed to be like, I'm really, you know, at that time, I think about it very fondly that we

went out. I remember being stoned in his hotel room and he ordered everything on the room service menu. And it felt like it's funny to make it super spiritual. Jesus talks about the kingdom of heaven being like a banquet. It felt like that. It felt like he was nourishing me, these buffalo wings. And this was a time of my life. I didn't have any money. I didn't know you could just call and say,

bring us everything. So it was incredibly compassionate, incredibly patient. Like when somebody is just like, you know what I mean? You're not really a fun hang. And there are people who know what that feels like. And they don't just tolerate it. They go, you need somewhere to sit just for a minute. And we don't need you to be funny or interesting. You can just have drinks and cigarettes and weed and we'll order you your stuff. And that was part of what got me through a really, really hard time. Him and other friends. Yeah.

So that's part of what crashing is about. Like what an unlikely place, I don't think so now, but traditionally speaking, what an unlikely place to find. Solace. Solace. Pirates? Pirates. That's why Artie Lang was the most perfect.

That was Jedd's idea, Judd Apatow's idea to cast Artie. And it was like, and getting to know Artie a little bit, you know, sorry to keep talking about Jesus, but like, I think there's a reason why he liked the outcast, why he liked tax collectors, right? Tax collectors, we're like, he's hanging out with accountants. They weren't CPAs. Tax collectors in Bible times were like the mafia. Yeah.

They killed, they broke kneecaps. Like they were collectors, bad guys. They could confiscate your farm. your property and shady stuff like like red dead redemption too like going and punching a guy and he coughs on you in the whole second act of the game but like he was with those people and there's something about you know Leonard Cohen the cracks or what let the light in there's something about i think jesus knew this there was something about broken people something about hurting people again richard roer on my mind tonight today he was like he thinks a a is one of the most like pure cuts of church

because nobody's nobody, look, I'm not throwing shade on church, but in AA, nobody's proud. Everybody's on their knees already. And that's a beautiful place. Like I was saying, like when you need somebody

is a really tender place. There's been a lot of mythologies that have arisen around the world's great faiths, but there's something so beautifully universal and lasting about Christianity, the Christ of Christianity. Yeah.

Of this lowly carpenter, day laborer, walking around, washing the feet of poor people, healing people, forgiving people, hugging people, holding them, you know, offering solace, offering up his own life. And it speaks to the deepest part of the human heart. Yeah. That mythology stays because anyone in a trailer park, or a Miami condominium who's drinking that bottle of vodka and smoking that cigarette and watching Tinkerbell in the distance.

They know that there's a place to go for redemption and to be on their knees. And the Bible holds that. A lot of churches don't necessarily hold that. But the story, the mythology holds that. I mean, Richard Rohr again, he says that Christianity is God with the Richard Roar, Jesus. But I have to footnote him. Otherwise, you'll think I'm brilliant. He says that Christianity.

Can you get him on my show, by the way? I don't know. he's pretty old. He's, yeah. You can live this, and he's kind of not well, but otherwise I think he would do it. Yeah. Yeah. I love him so much.

He's the best. Anyway, he says that Christianity is the spirituality of how to lose well, which I'm like, that's it. Jesus doesn't flee his crucifixion. The disciples don't seek revenge on the people that killed the son of God. He rides into town on a fucking donkey at the end of the day. And again, look, I'm an American. I understand.

I mean that, I don't know why I said that, but like, I understand. We've turned it into a religion of winning. We've turned it into sort of a Superman character. And it's all about the resurrection, you know, like we beat death. And a lot of it is about, I mean, I would say the majority of it is about, God, using Christian language, God in man saying, me too. I'm suffering with you, through you, and as you. In fact, who do you think you are that you think I'm somewhere else watching you suffer?

And Jesus is the ultimate underdog. Stephen Mitchell wrote this book called The Gospel, according to Jesus, which is brilliant. And he kind of lays out how people would have thought Jesus was a bastard. Nobody would have bought the virgin birth thing. In fact, I don't know. We can't know if Jesus went around saying he was from a virgin birth. It's not even clear from the Bible if we're supposed to believe the virgin birth story. You know, my favorite thing about the Bible is when Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist, how hard the gospel writers work to tell you that he didn't need it. When really Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist, he was a man who was seeking, who wanted to know God,

who met a guy, John the Baptist, who had found. out who he is and who God was and was teaching people and baptizing people and Jesus gets baptized. They look, with respect, they have to bend over backwards to say why the son of God, the sinless son of God. Was that in the book of John? Because I know John on so many ways bends over backwards to kind of deify Jesus in the way that Matthew Mark and Luke don't. John has a, again, well, if you want to flex Bible stuff, you can use a rich. or drawer term and say, John has the most advanced Christology, meaning he knows himself to be the Christ. So it is inconvenient. I think, I think you're right to the gospel of John that Jesus got

baptized. And that one might be the one that's like, you know, he did it to like be one of the guys. To like show, you know, to like out of his compassion or something. Right. Right. The way I interpret it, like, first of all, we can't possibly know, but that's not really important. So many of those debates in the early church were so much about like, is he man or is he? God and there's still those debates happen to this day. Why can't you just say, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, kind of. Yeah, sure, all of that. Well, that's another Richard Rorthing, both and. And the Bible is filled with both and paradoxical thinking. Thomas Aquinas calls him a man god or a god man. But that's one of the paradoxes. He's both man and God. He's both dead and alive. I mean, like,

it's trying to break your brain in the same way. favorite co-on is what is but doesn't exist. These things are supposed to dismantle the brain because what we're talking about, what Jesus I think called the kingdom of heaven, what other people might call being or awareness, can't be known by the mind. And that is deeply frustrating for someone like me who would really like to know it with my mind. Sailer Bob Adamson said, what's wrong with right now if you're not thinking about it? And that's sort of all, the whole thing. His first name is Sailor, or is that a title? That's hilarious.

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That's a good one while you're doing the dishes, is to just go, if you rid your mind of concept, and just take a break for a moment. Buddha said, what in this moment is lacking. That's one of his sermons. What in this moment is lacking? If you ask the mind what in this moment is lacking, it'll say, well, I'm going to hit traffic after this. I don't know if I'm going to be home in time for dinner.

These are mine. I'm a little hot. I'm just kidding. It is a little warm in here. It's a little toasty. But that's the mind. We can't ask the mind. You have to say what,

what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it breaks the brain so Jesus the story of Jesus is doing the same thing nothing puts you in the moment better than that because it's like oh wow nothing's wrong with right now that's right if I'm in right now that's a Rupert thing it's like language is meant to be evocative right what is but doesn't exist what is but doesn't exist well your awareness I don't mean to spoil you this for everybody. I can say awareness, but to taste the experience of awareness, to know that, okay, this is all Rupert Spiro, but to exist means to stand out from, ex Cisterre, right? This is all Rupert. To stand out from, like the background, something stands out from it. It exists, right?

What doesn't exist is the background. Like in a movie, the screen isn't in the movie, right? It is, but it's not in the movie. It doesn't exist. In the same way, your awareness, the knowing, it's not as fancy as it sounds. Please don't glaze over or think this isn't for you. You are aware. Do you know you're aware?

You are aware. Don't say we don't know what awareness is. You are having that experience right now. You can't produce it. You can't show it to me. The mind can't even really think about it. But this is what they mean when they say you can't know it. You can be it.

So something like what is but doesn't exist is supposed to be evocative to help you sink into the experience of being. And it's not just to go like, oh, that's the meaning of life is there's one knowing and we're all kind of spattered around and playing, putting on this play with each other. It's not just for that. It's to go, okay, that's what I really am. Everything that I think that I am appears in this space like knowing, field. Even if I go, I am Pete or the feeling of my face, anything that makes

think that I'm separate, appears in that. And the nature of that knowing or that being or that awareness is peace. There's no conflict there. There's no need there. There's no desire there. So it's not just like, oh, I can go on Rain's podcast and tell him, I am that I am is the highest expression in all of religion or whatever. It's to actually go, no, we're talking about me and you, the I am that I am, is the I am that you are and everyone listening. And then we go, what is the nature of that I am? Oh, it's what we were looking for. It's peace, it's happiness. It's peace, Satcernanda. Being consciousness bliss. It's bliss. I could drink this water. This is Ramos. And it's nice, right? I get this hit. I needed some water. Then you have to pee.

Because it's so hot in here. Because it's so fucking hot in here. Then you have to pee. Then you get the relief of peeing. Now you're bored. Then you watch TV and you get the feeling of being entertained. Now you're tired. You go to bed. And then you wake up and you need to wake up. You need coffee. Now you have to poop. Now you poop and now you have to whatever. It never ends. So every spiritual tradition starts by saying, hey, congratulations on not finding it in objective reality. That's your initiation. Now let's start looking in relatively or figuratively speaking, the other direction. This is what they mean when they say happiness is inside or the kingdom of heaven is within whatever you want to say. So not literally, but we need to look inside and go,

who or what am I? And is that who or what you are bothered by anything that your mind is bothered by? One of the things that came to mind as you were saying that is what is, what is but does not exist? Language is something that is but doesn't exist. I was thinking about as you were speaking so eloquently about consciousness and awareness that there's this torrent of language coming out. And what is it?

These sounds, my tongues going glaca, beli, beli, blah, blah, blah, and you can write it down and it can be these little symbols on a page of paper. But that doesn't exist. It's a bunch of like chicken scratches, but somehow, you know, you say the word, fire or mountain or you say fire on the mountain by the Grateful Dead. And we know what those words mean and you're hearing mountain come out of my mouth and it evokes

something. But so isn't that interesting? How these teachings work with language, which are language is the ultimate symbol. Yeah. Well, you know that painting, this is not a pipe? Yes. Painting of a pipe. It just says this is not a pipe in French.

Yeah. But like, no, that's, that's brilliant. I love that. It's no wonder we love stories and we love dreams and we love songs. The whole thing is storytelling and meaning making. But also like, this is also Rupert. This cup, its existence is only the knowing of it.

You know what I mean? Like this table, which we go, this is matter. This is a table. It's not me. It really is, just like my own body, something that appears in the space-like field. that I am. If you close your eyes and imagine, like just see this space like, I like to think of it

as like a big tank of water and like the sound of my voice is like ink dripping in it. It just appears and then it recedes. But Rupert would say, in what medium does the feeling of the cup emerge and then into what does it disappear? That's what is but doesn't exist. That's this alert light, this like clear, crisp, effortless, never tired. Buddha said, I am awake. He didn't say I'm enlightened. He said, I'm awake. Are you awake?

I mean, is it taking any effort for me to get into you right now? Not the ideas, but just all of this is coming in completely effortlessly. People talk about consciousness being like a mirror. That's it. It reflects everything without. asking any questions in the same way my voice appears and what you call a sound, your brain goes, that's Pete's voice. I go, that's my voice.

Then I go, the feeling of the chair, that's my hand on the chair. But when you really look at what a sensation is, it's just another knowing that you, the brain classifies. This is pretty trippy. But like the feeling or it might be easier to go like a sound and then you have an emotion. Maybe you're bored. You go like, this is boring. Yeah.

The boredom emerges on top of and around and it's made out of the knowing of it. Your mind later goes, that's a feeling called boredom. That's a sound called Pete. This is a feeling called chair. That's a sound called voice. It's all just, and don't take my word for it. Take some time. It's not meditating.

Close your eyes and just watch things come and go and say out of what and into what are they rising and setting. And that's it. You referenced the movie screen before. And that is a very helpful cognitive behavioral therapy tool to help with anxiety, which is we are in the movie. And it's a 3D surround sound. movie that includes touch and smell and sound and taste and and all of it and that's our consciousness. But when we can bring our attention to the screen that the movie is being shown on,

then it allows us to take a deep breath. That's right. Oh, I'm not a slave to this 3D movie. Right. There is, I am perceiving this. So anxiety comes up, fear comes up. Yeah, they come and up. Obsession comes up.

You witness it as something projected on a screen. But you don't come and. go. Everything else comes and goes. A feeling comes. My daughter goes, I'm bored. I go, boredom comes and goes. She goes, it stills here. It'll go. Yep. What is it that doesn't change? That's what spirituality is talking about. And I forget who, Fred Davis, he does this thing with people where he goes, think of a memory when you were a kid. And I always think about crossing the street to my neighbor's pool and it started to rain. And we were like, oh no, we're getting wet. And then we realized we were in our bathing suits and we're like, oh, it's okay. And we played on the grass.

Amazing. This is beautiful memory? And he goes, is there a sense of being there? Like, did you have a sense of being in at that time? You're like, well, yeah, I was there. I was present and aware. And he goes, is it the same being or is it a different being? Like my body has changed, my mind has changed, my feelings have changed, my behaviors have changed. What doesn't change? This is what I think, Jesus is talking about when he's saying the pearl of great price, buy the field, sell all your money, get it. It's the only thing worth getting because everything else comes and goes. And in the end, like when we die, it'll be like it, it'll be like a dream upon waking. It'll be gone before your feet hit the floor. So it's not about. And that's a hadith from the Quran, which is when we die,

we awaken as if from a dream. That's a saying of Muhammad. Yeah. And then it's, uh, our birth is but a dream and a forgetting. There's a poet, trailing clouds of glory. Somebody's screaming at the, at their radio. I could think of it, but I don't want to try. Yeah. But our birth is a dream. We could pause. We could Google it. We could come back. We could edit it out. Look super smart, but we're not going to do that. We're not going to do it. We're not going to do it. Because this is all about living in the tension. You know, it's funny. So this other teacher I love, which I shout from the rooftops because he has a lot of great. So Rupert Spire is my homeboy.

He is my daily bread of non-duality. I'm obsessed. So he's like a mountain. And then I sprinkle it. I season this mountain of mashed potatoes with another guy called John Wheeler. And John Wheeler is a fascinating teacher. He was in the Bay Area and he taught for a while and then he just vanished. He doesn't teach him anymore.

You can't find him anywhere. He used to be incredibly available. You could email him. You could call him. He just vanished. And he has some really, he's a nice compendium to Rupert, who's patient and thorough. And John is like, he's like the questions. We could all have questions.

I have questions. There's times when my own beliefs don't make sense and I have a question. He always goes, I have it, spiritual understanding. I've lost it. I need it. I'll find it. All of these feelings and these thoughts and these plans all emerge in what you're, looking for, which is the oldest one in the book, the guy who leaves his house looking for

the case of gold, can't find it, goes home, it was in his living room. There's a million stories like this, but we need to go like, someone would be like, is awareness aware during deep sleep? And he goes, who cares? This is the good news, rain. What we're talking about is 100% present right now. This is the whole shebang. The present awareness that you are right now is it. And all it is is recognizing that. It's not gaining anything. Stop looking for enlightenment. Stop looking for some peak experience. Stop looking to be groovy all the time or never annoyed. It's just noticing that whatever is on the screen, you're actually the screen. And does the screen have any concern, the screen is fine. But you can't say that enough. And John is really fierce on that.

And that's why I like him as an add-on. He just goes, stop. So something I wrote on my bathroom mirror is, can I be more of this later? Can I somehow become more aware, more conscious, more present and aware? No, I'm fully present and aware. But don't you think you're a little more conscious, present, and aware now than you were at 23. No, I have more understanding, and I can talk about it more. But that's an interesting question. Because I remember going into therapy and really struggling with all kinds of shit. Yeah.

And being shown this kind of color wheel of emotions. Like, what are you feeling? I don't know. Stuck. What does that mean? Stuck. Like, and then to see the gradations of emotions. You know, I feel anger, rage, concern, you know, compassion, empathy, love, dissolute.

Like the number of emotions is so complicated and variegated. And I had like three. Yeah, yeah. Even by the time I'm in like my late 30s, I had like three. Anger, sadness, and confusion. Those were my big three. And now I really do. I'm not any kind of like better person necessarily.

but I have consciousness of about 50 different emotions that I didn't have when I was 37. Right. I think you're using the word consciousness to mean like awareness. Yeah, awareness. Or understand that. Understanding. But the awareness, the naked, the light of the world, the light that renders your experience knowable.

We're using light as a metaphor. Was the awareness that was aware of your three emotions, anger, fear, and what? Confusion. Confusion. Was as pristine as it is right now. It's never been improved. The awareness of a newborn baby and the awareness of a Zen master are the exact same awareness. There is no improving.

This is where we get the kids playing the video games. You can't improve upon it. You know, I always talk about the prodigal son. The prodigal son goes off into a far off land and gets drunk and loses all his money, but he was never not the guy's son. That's why that story is so powerful. You can't be more the guy's son. He thinks he's a fool.

He thinks his father will disown. him and his father welcomes him back and he says, you're always with me and everything I have is yours because that's what this is. You were never, good news. Cheesy things like I was carrying you footprints in the sand, all real. A God that protects you from nothing but sustains you in everything. Your darkest, worst moment, the pristine light of your awareness was fully on. I have a sticker on in my office that says the lights are still on. I have conflict or, you know, conflicting feelings sometimes with my family. I have to go in. I'm all about therapy. I'm all about improving myself, but that doesn't have anything to do with my true self, trying to improve my relative self.

But there's a thing on my office wall that says the lights are still on. So I say to my parts, my inner child, my scared guy, my wet guy who's soaked and embarrassed all the parts. And I go, we're going to go home to Boston. He's a king. We're going to go home to Boston. I'm not saying we won't be frustrated. I'm not saying we won't be scared. I'm not saying we won't be afraid and miserable, but the lights are still on, like a rousing speech. Look for one second, did the light that you are flicker or dim? And do any of those experiences touch who you are that's Meister Eckert? There's a part inside of you that's never been touched, never been touched. And again, look to Jesus, humiliated, no parents, no father, they don't believe that his father's

his father outcast, murdered, betrayed by his friends. The lights were on the whole time. The whole time. So there is a recognition. And I think there's a value. This is why Buddha taught. This is when Zargadatta taught. This is why these people taught.

There is a human value on a relative level to noticing what you really are, even though, paradoxically, you were always that. But there is something. So welcome to the tension of paradox. There's nothing to do, but get on and do it. Sorry, there's one more. Yeah. They go, if somebody asks his teacher, they go, if enlightenment is an accident, that's how

sometimes people teach it. Why do we do all this study? And the teacher said to be as accident prone as possible. So there's a real like, we can't, we can't speed it up. It's all perfect. And yet, you know, it tends to, it's silly. It's silly to seek God. Stand up and, this is Rupert.

Stand up and take a step towards yourself, your true self, towards your true self, towards your essence. Stand up and take a step towards the ground of being. A Bible term, in case anybody thinks I'm being too new age, go be closer to the I am that you are. You can't do it. But paradoxically, there are things we can do that help us know that? I don't know.

You were there the whole time. It's a joke. You go backstage. We take off our mess. Oh, my God. I thought you were raining and I was peed. I thought I was confused. I thought I was lost.

I thought I was this. I thought it was that. Oh. Yeah. I love that. Should we go out for an encore? I didn't mean that we're killing it so hard. I meant in the story.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were putting on a show. And there's something wrong with the show. It's a beautiful show. Oh, that doesn't mean horrible things aren't happening. You know what I'm saying. I'm starting work on a documentary about God. A Godumentary.

A Godumentary. And thank God. There's never been a documentary about God before. Can you believe it? Is it, there's a joke? There's no joke. There's literally not been a documentary about God. Well, that's interesting.

I'm thinking about, try as you might. There might be ones where people are musing or something like a history of God or something like that, but a documentary about God, like what is God? And our take is like,

what is God in the modern world? Yeah. You said, you started this whole conversation with like, I don't believe in God. Is it? No, it was in your stand-up special where you talked about, I don't believe in a,

God that's an old white man with a beard, et cetera. And then you do this great monologue, one of my favorite bits of your last special about God. So we're just trying to have a conversation and excavate this. And I'd love to know what your journey was with God specifically. The God, your Christian God versus your heartbroken God versus your spiritual journey God, versus your versus your non-dualistic God, like you're saying right now, don't search for God. Just take a step closer to yourself. Yeah. Which you can't.

Yeah. You are what you're seeking, that kind of thing. I mean, yeah, God was, it's so hard to say this without sounding condescending. But it was a little bit like Jiminy Cricket, I think. It was like it was a witness. Someone who's watching me. I think that's valid. and commenting?

Yeah, I used to talk. Jiminy critic is little. Do you mean like a big kind of like? No, I mean, Jiminy is correct. Did you ever see that movie, Harvey with a giant invisible talking rabbit? No. What's his name?

It's a Wonderful Life. What's that guy's name? Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy Stewart and there's a giant invisible talking rabbit. Yeah. That's fair. Harvey. I didn't want to say imaginary friend.

That's the most condescending thing. thing you can say. Okay. But I'm saying in my own experience, it was like a friend you couldn't see. It was somebody I could talk to. It was somebody that I did a lot of confessing. But it was a friend. It was a friend.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the parking spot God. I don't, I think that's valid and lovely. I don't think, I don't want anyone to listen to me and stop talking to God. Devotion. Ram Dass talked about devotion being sort of the oil, the lubricant that keeps the ultimate gears turning.

Because non-duality can be kind of dry. Rupert himself says that deep down, he's sort of like a devotional Christian mystic or a Sufi. He's very like sweet but dualistic, like I love God stuff. It's all, everything belongs, remember? But it was like a... What devotion comes from being devout, being devoted to something, devoting yourself to something.

there's a sincere, meaningful, heart-centered action behind it. Totally. But it was, I spent a lot of time, it was also a little bit of a surveillance system. And once your sexuality comes online, that becomes more, you know, interesting. Meaning, I was having sex and you're like, don't watch this part. It was more like masturbating and lusting and just being a horny kid. Yeah. Because I was like, I didn't have a hard time not stealing.

I, you know, I didn't have a hard time not, you know, most of the time not lying. I didn't have a hard time like I didn't hate on people or hurt people overtly. Did you covet your neighbors? Neighbors. Why am I saying neighbors? Navel gazing is what we're doing. Did you covet your neighbor's slaves? If that is in the Ten Commandments, do you know that?

What? Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's wife or. Is it a rewrite? No, no, no, it's in there. Slaves is in there? Yeah. Somebody look up Exodus 20. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, spouse, servants, animals, or anything that belongs

to their neighbors. But I think servants can also be translated as slaves. Certainly. You know, it's a wonder. Sometimes I think about the time Jesus lived in, it's a wonder anything was good. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like people were, it was a rough, rough time. It was a rough time. It's a miracle. Yeah. That there's any part. And the Old Testament, it's a miracle. Any of it is usable. Yeah. And a lot of it is. But there's this YouTube channel I watch that I absolutely love. His name is Julian

Watley. And he told the story about Exodus and he related to AI. He's like, when people get scared, they tend to do strange things. Right. So he's kind of making the argument that we live in a very uncertain and frightening time. And I take a lot of comfort in people like Julian Whatley that give a historical and in this case biblical context for like we've been here before. So he talks about the Israelites following Moses to the promised land and they get to Mount Carmel and Moses goes up to get the Ten Commandments and he's gone for a while and the Israelites I'm sorry Mount Sinai. Fucking assal.

What's Mount Carmel? Camel is in the north by, uh, that's where the Prophet Eli Elijah was. Important mountain. I told this on Bert Kreischer's podcast, he let it slide. Okay. He didn't know. He didn't know.

He doesn't read. He would agree with you. So anyway, Mount Sinai. So the Israelites are waiting and they get scared because they don't have their leader. They don't have their God. Nothing's happening. So they melt down all their gold and they make the golden calf. And it makes them feel better.

They melt down all their gold and make a golden calf. Obviously, the rest of the story, Moses, comes back and he's really mad. So Julian Whatley makes his brilliant point that we're doing the same thing. AI is the new religion. Sam Altman and all these CEOs are the prophets and the priests of this new religion that does promise prosperity, health, eternal life, comfort, ease, and also literally eternal life. We'll upload your consciousness to the cloud. Anyway, so he goes, we're doing the same thing. We're the Israelites. The world. world is uncertain. We're scared. We're not melting down gold. We're melting down all the knowledge,

all the books, all the songs, all the movies, everything we got. Nobody's even worried about copyright. Nobody's worried about anything. Just melt it down, melt it down. We have to make this God. We don't know what's going to happen. We're going to make this God. It'll make everything okay. I was like like a click. I was like, wow, we've been doing this a long, long time. Do you remember encyclopedias? Of course. Are you old enough to remember encyclopedias? Britannica?

I mean, how crazy was it that there were, you would, there would be door to door salesman saying, don't you want to know? Why the encyclopedia so that you can kind of know everything? And you would spend $200 to get the full Encyclopedia Britannica and all of the information of the world extant was contained therein. And it was on your. bookshel. It was the paper internet and it got no revisions. There was wrong stuff in it. Yeah. Of course it was. Just like the internet. Well, it would get revised, but you would keep your

encyclopedia, yeah, for 18 years or something like that. So stuff would be woefully out of date. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Isn't that good though? Yeah. I recommend his channel very much. Oh, I'll check that out. I love that. I love that. He's not a huge channel. I think he's brilliant. But in some ways, we've been worshipping the golden calf, which is just stuff. Oh, yeah. We've got lots of golden calves. Maybe somebody is rolling their eyes being like, that's the oldest comparison in the book. But I thought about melting down the real panic in which we're like,

if we give it everything. And so much of the world's economy is tied into it. Oh, yeah. Give it our privacy. Give it our data. Give it everything. Let it listen to everything. Access our photos.

Access our camera. Access our microphone. Take it all because it's saying, but Julian Wally also makes the argument. It's going to be them first. It's going to be Sam Altman that uses our data. to like, I don't, I don't buy into the idea this. Unfortunately, the science fiction idea that you could upload your consciousness to a computer,

I think you'd have a very convincing black mirror-esque simulation. Because the joke is there never was a Sam Oatman. There was just a wave on the ocean. I love that. I love that. But we were going back to God, God documentary. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Jiminy Cricket.

And then once my sexuality became online and I was, then it became somebody that I confessed to. And there was a lot of like equis style self-flogging. Like really, unfortunately. Yeah, please forgive me. My friend Rob Bell, your friend, Rob Bell, was like, I wish I could just go back and tell 16-year-old Pete that he's okay. Yeah.

And that's what I wish I could tell a 16-year-old. And you know what else I would tell him? Some basic breathwork to help him with his anxiety. Because I used to lay in bed and pray for God. That was the other thing God was, was the slot machine. Like, maybe he'll give me what I want. And I would pray for him to take away my anxiety. And I had bad anxiety.

It was like a live wire. It was just like nervous for no reason or maybe nervous about everything. And what made it worse was I'd pray earnestly. I would sing the song that was from Veggetil, I cast all my cares upon you. I lay all my burdens down at your feet. And any time, I don't know what to do. I cast all my cares upon you.

I would sing this. So it's sad for me to remember. remember. And it wouldn't work. And then I would feel worse because if my faith was stronger, or maybe deeper than that, if God was real in the way that I thought, God was real. So there's all these horror, now I'm anxious and now I'm scared. Like, it was awful. I really, and I'm not joking, I wish someone had just been, breathe in for five seconds, hold it for five seconds, breathe out for five seconds, hold it for five seconds, and do that for 15 minutes. It's better than vegetable tails. And then how does that shift when you're in your 20s? Then I became obsessed.

My mom, and I love my mom so dearly. I don't hold any of this against her. Like put us in this church, a Bible-believing church, meaning like really like, let's read the Bible, let's learn the Bible. Let's take this seriously. And I think... Did they teach you the difference between Mount Sinai and Mount Carmel? And now I, Krasinski. That's pretty good. he's very good at it he's the best he was the best at it i mean martin freeman yeah big shoes krasinski did it he he started the movement but krasinski perfected it he sure did he had about 300 more episodes to practice that's true that's true okay i had it god went from that oh your mom i got into bible church a grown-up anxious kid a grown-up not just my mom but everybody at my

church and all the pastors were celebrities. I loved them all. I was obsessed. They told me, this is the book. This is the truth. And I loved that. This is how you go to heaven and avoid hell. I was like, why aren't we all obsessed with this? Getting behind this. Yeah. I didn't understand. It's literally the good news. It's the good news. And it's also the biggest evacuation plan from maternal torture and we're an hour on Sunday and we're bored. So I went all in. I was going to be a pastor. I went to Gordon College, a Christian, like a Christian college where you have to like sign a declaration of faith. This really inspires me and always listening to you honestly moves my heart and makes me realize some of the only, some of my limitations around my thinking.

And it was a beautiful, beautiful conversation. That's a beautiful thing to say. I have to work on that too. That's very big of you to even be open and receptive. No, I've been a little bit stuck in God recently and I think there's more to ever uncover and that's what I wanted to speak about. It's always a pleasure and you're going to love when you have Rupert on because you'll see you'll be like, oh, Pete was just. Well, what's great is. Oh, I listen to a ton of Rupert. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what's great? in his books and stuff. In a true, talk about devotion, in a true friend, student, teacher kind of thing, like,

the line is blurred. I'm just like, it's just, I just, it feels very close to me, even though I am quoting his analogies and stuff. It's beautiful when it kind of comes into you. I've probably asked you this before, but every guest, we ask about the word soul and it has so many different meanings. What definition comes to mind for you with the word soul? I would say the space-like aware presence in which the sound soul appears and into which it disappears.

No. Wrong. That's it. Thanks, Pete. The Soul Boom podcast. Subscribe now on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever else you get your stupid podcasts.