Sounds Like A Cult - Friendship Breakups: Right or Wrong?

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Get Tickets to Isa Medina's Live Comedy Show in NYC August 24th! Click Here!  Follow Isa on Instagram to keep up with her upcoming comedy shows!  Subscribe to Isa's new podcast I'm Right You're Wrong on Spotify or Apple!  If you want to support Isa's new podcast subscribe above, listen or watch the full episodes at the I'm Right You're Wrong Podcast Page! <3  Ep 6: Friendship Breakups: Right or Wrong? Have you ever had a Friendship Breakup? Absolutely no worries if not! Sounds like you're perfect and that's awesome <3 This week your gorgeous hosts, ⁠Lydia Keating⁠ and ⁠Isa Medina⁠, get into whether Friendship Breakups are right OR wrong. They debate both extremes, tell personal stories and chat about how post-college life affects friendship. They talk about bisexual friendships....aka love affairs and of course, they talk about boundaries. xx love you so much!  Subscribe to Isa's new podcast I'm Right You're Wrong on Spotify or Apple!  Follow the podcast on Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@ethicalgirlies⁠⁠ 

Hi, culties. It's Isa Medina here, former host and co-creator of Sounds Like a Cult podcast. I wanted to let you know that I'm doing a live comedy show in New York City on August 24th, and I would love for you to get tickets. You can get tickets at the link in this episode description. My comedy show is called Problematique, where I invite on some of my favorite stand-up comics in New York City to try a new funny problematique bit as well as their traditional comedy. It's going to be so much fun, so funny. I'm inviting only my favorite comics in the city and I promise you're going to laugh so

hard it's going to be an ab workout. So if you want to come get tickets at the link in this episode description or on my Instagram linked below. And now on to this week's feed dropped episode of my new podcast, I'm Right You're Wrong, where we debate whether friendship breakups are right or wrong. In classic fashion, we look at both sides and then we have a nuanced, giggly and fun discussion. A ton of you have listened here on the Sounds Like a Cult feed, but if fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun,

fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun I hope you enjoy. Love you. And this is what my dad would always say is the mark of a good friendship. You see your friend after not seeing them for many years and it feels like one of you just got back from going to the bathroom. Actually, that will make me cry.

Okay. Cute. Oh my God. Tears in your eyes. This is I'm right You're Wrong, a podcast about the everyday debates you have with your friends at brunch. I'm Issa Medina and I'm a comedian. I'm Lydia Keating. I'm a writer and content creator. Every week we debate a different topic. Right or wrong, staying friends with your ex? Right or wrong, Botox and fillers?

Right or wrong, stay at home moms? To try and answer the question, all of us think about constantly. What does it mean to be a good person in your 20s? Or 30s. Or 40s. Or literally hundreds, everyone is young and hot and cute forever.

So true. Every week, our producer randomly assigns each of us a side to debate. We prepare and come ready to argue the most extreme take, right or wrong. We only have three uninterrupted minutes each to argue the most extreme take, right or wrong. We only have three uninterrupted minutes each to argue our side. And then we get into a little discussion about our favorite word, nuance! And yeah, how it's totally fine to agree to disagree.

I mean in this economy, it's actually the only thing we can afford to do. Today's topic? Friendship breakups. And just a heads up, this episode was recorded before we started limiting our timed debates, but it's a good one. Yeah, it actually is one of my favorites. And authentic and raw and real.

Oh, we are so vulnerable in this episode. It goes, it goes straight. Okay, we have so much to talk about and I feel like we've been holding off. We have, you've been in my house for like an hour now and I have something I'm sitting on. You've been standing in the corner facing the wall, avoiding talking to me just so you could spill.

How was your week? Well, I was in Switzerland. Oh yeah. And I don't know if you remember in our photo shoot with Jack, we were talking about Xanax on a plane and you're like, it's just so nice to know it's there and have it.

And you were like, do you want me to give you one? And I'm like, no, no, no, I'm like a seasoned traveler. I'm like so good. And on my flight back, well, in the Zurich airport, I had a panic attack. Yeah, it was actually really terrible. I call it my Zappa, my Zurich airport panic attack. What happened?

I literally don't know, which was part of why it made it so scary. Like, and honestly today is like one of the first days where I feel like, cause after you have a panic attack, you feel fragile. Yeah, because you're scared it's gonna happen again. Totally. And like that fear of like physical symptoms

was actually, I think like the main reason why the panic attack got to the point it got to, which was bad, I think, like the main reason why the panic attack got to the point it got to, which was bad. But it was so weird. I was just in the Uber from my hotel to the airport and I started to get a little nauseous. And I was just like, oh, I always kind of get car sick. But then like the nausea felt like it traveled up

into my chest. And I was like, oh, this is a weird feeling. Like, let me just roll down the window. And then I was like, I found at one point I was like, oh, this is a weird feeling. Like, let me just roll down the window. And then I was like, at one point I was like, it's not going away. I'm like, Steve. I'm just like, I'm just like, picturing you cracking the window and be like,

yeah, just need like a little fresh air. And then you're just like full head out the window. It literally was what it was though. You're like, I can't get the air. And the Uber driver, he like couldn't speak English, but he had like the kindest energy and he was like, fresh air, good. And I was like, I was like, aha.

And like then tears started streaming. Oh no. And I just like didn't, I really didn't know what was wrong. And then I got to the airport and I was early and was just like freaking out at the airport for three hours. And then I had to get on an eight hour flight. Yeah.

That is my literal worst nightmare, which is why I travel with Xanax. Oh, I'm getting a prescription. I'm gonna give you some. Girl, I almost texted you when I got back to New York cause I was like, I feel I'm worried it's gonna happen again. And I know you says like my plug. Yeah, I'm locked in, but no, that's scary, but valid.

This is a safe space. You can have panic attacks. I will, if I was you, I don't in, but no, that's scary, but valid. This is a safe space. You can have panic attacks. If I was you, I don't know if this is good enough. I don't know if you're asking for advice, but. No, I am. I would literally just like, I don't condone vomiting. I really don't. Like.

Politically. Politically against, it's wrong. Yeah, yeah. Don't do it, it's not good for you. Right or wrong, vomiting, wrong. Wrong, it's wrong. But if you're having a little panty, just kind of do, huh! Yeah.

And then sometimes you just get it out of you. Yeah. Because you do need a physical situation or maybe you weren't, you were alone also, but like maybe someone can help you. It's like you need someone physically there, like hand on shoulder, breathing exercise. And I tried to reach out to the person standing me in front of me in line She was like, I think I started talking to her first and then I go I'm really anxious right now. She goes

No, I'm like I'm seeing my therapist next week he's like on fucking vacation right now, but I was like, I don't know. It's so unfair. Yeah. Okay. So tell me about your week. How have you been? Oh, just, you know, fine and dandy.

No panic attacks? No, but I had similar symptoms in that I ran at half marathon on Sunday. Yes, she did queen. It was a slay city. I ran it with, thanks to you. I know now that I ran it with a little nausea. Yes she did queen. It was a sleigh city. I ran it with, thanks to you, I know now that I ran it with little Noz X. Yes.

My guy, but- Did you see him? No, I didn't unfortunately. But yesterday I had horrible chest pains and I was like, is this anxiety? So I took some CBD and I actually took Xanax the last two nights to fall asleep just cause I really needed to rest.

And when I've been running a lot, like I can't sleep well. It's such an interesting thing that happens to you because for me, it really helps me sleep. It helps me sleep if I run eight hours before I go to sleep. Yeah, but you're not a morning workout person. So you're gonna run in the evenings and then that is gonna keep you up, which actually is very normal exercise

that people say don't work out before you wanna go to sleep. And the half marathon was really early in the morning, so I should have been totally fine by that night, but then I took a three hour nap after the half marathon. I saw that on the close friends. On the close. I was honestly good for you.

Yeah, I was like, I deserve this. Yeah, for sure. That's a great, that's the one time where you feel like it's permissible to take a three hour this. Yeah, for sure. That's like a great, like that's like the one time where you feel like it's permissible to take a three hour nap. Yeah, yeah. And so then I was like, I'm gonna take a Xanax just to fall asleep.

And I did. And then I still woke up with like chest pain. But then I realized after I took Advil that I think it's because I didn't wear a strong enough sports bra. And I do have boobs now, which I bought. Mm-hmm and in the shirt especially yeah I just think that the boobs were really bouncing

around for 13.1 can I ask what brand of sports right you are Lulu lemon and it tried on no but I would love to try it. They actually are crazy supportive. I can give you one because I have like two, a couple of colors. I think it was the problem was that like, it was a sports bra t-shirt. It was a sports bra tank top. Oh yeah, those are never, yeah. And I had used it to run like a shorter run before,

so I felt totally comfortable. And then I was like, no, I need to be like choked with my sports bras. Yeah, the built-in sports bras are cute. I love a workout cami tank, but they're not going to hold up over longer than I think five months. Yeah. Yeah.

Right or wrong friendship breakups? Right. I mean, breakups is a little much. I feel like, okay, it's valid sometimes. Yes, right. Yeah. If done the okay. It's valid sometimes. Yes, right Yeah, if done the right way, it's right. This is really hitting too close to home. Yeah, I'm actually breaking up with a friend right now Are you distancing or are you like having a conversation at like a breakup conversation had the conversation now? I'm distancing myself problem. She's my college roommate. Oh

Yeah, yeah, so distancing won't happen for another month and a half. Topic of the week, friendship breakups. Right or wrong? Well, I feel you and I are just the right people to talk about it. We got a lot to talk about. We really do. Yeah. I feel just in our regular life, you and I come to this topic quite a bit.

Yeah. It's almost how we have come together in many ways. We're the two toxic ones. Yeah. No. No, I'm not toxic. We are self-aware queens. We are. No, but I think to talk about friendship breakups,

we kind of have to define a couple of things first. Yeah. For it to be a friendship breakup, it has to be someone, I wrote these three things. Okay. There has to be length friendship breakup, it has to be someone, I wrote these three things. Okay. There has to be length, quality, proximity, and frequency. Oh, you think proximity is important? And not physical proximity, emotional proximity.

Oh. You know, like- Look at you defining things. Yeah. I'm very impressed. Yeah, I would agree with all of, wait, go through them again? Length of friendship, quality of friendship,

emotional proximity, and frequency of communication. Okay. The only one I'm going to push back on is I feel like some people have those types of like really intense friendships that are like bright, burn bright, die quickly that are like three months long. And it's like a fever dream where you're like, I met like my like soulmate, my twin flame, and then people have friendship breakups with those types of people, which for me has never happened. I could never imagine getting that close

with someone in three months. I feel like I have been on the receiving end of someone trying to do that with me. And I'm like, nah, this is weird. But I know people who have had that. That's a really good point, Diane. Thank you so much. No, but actually that's a really good point.

Because actually I think that's when most friendship breakups happen. It's with those big burn bright, burn fast and then you have to skedaddle. Yeah, well, I actually had a different thought about when most friendship breakups happen. A lot of the times it happens in your early 20s and I think that is such a pivotal moment

in your maturation as a social being because it's when you graduate from college and you're moving on into the real world, you get a real job, you have to literally rely on yourself to have shelter, to have food. And I think that changes the boundaries of friendship and best friendship.

Totally. And I think like a point that goes into what you just said is kind of like the way how much money people are making. Like I saw this TikTok of this girl the other day being like, this is a really hot take, but like I'm no longer gonna be friends with people who don't make as much money as I make. Because I went on a trip with this girl

and like I offered to pay for the Airbnb because she couldn't afford it. And then she didn't even invite me out to dinner once, which I actually think is kind of fucked up. Yeah, that is. There are these underwritten things where it's like if you're giving, you're giving, you kind of give back a little bit

where you can. Totally, yeah, yeah. And so I think it's very unspoken, but in early 20s, actually, I think it happens multiple times in your 20s, because early 20s is like, you get your first job. Mid 20s, maybe you get your first promotion. Late 20s, it's like, maybe you stay in the same lane and keep growing or completely pivot your career. And so there's so many different times in your 20s

where you're like fluctuating for your quality of life to completely change and like, it's like, are your friends, do your friends fit into that? Yeah, I also like, when I'm thinking about that time post-college and like, who are you growing with and who are you growing away from? Like, I also think expectations between friendships like changes a lot and I don't know about you,

but in college, like my group of friends, who a lot of And I don't know about you, but in college, my group of friends, who a lot of them were also my teammates, I would do anything for them. If they needed something, I would drop, I would miss class. I would be there for you. And that was a big part of our closeness that I had, I would say three people I can think of

who I had this level of friendship with. And then I- So that reminds me of like one of the biggest friendship breakups of my life. Really? My best friend from college. I had blanked. I had a friend like that.

Really? Drop everything kind of like. Yeah, and that was almost like, that unsaid rule was almost part of like the strength of our friendship. Like it was like pretty necessary that we both necessary that we had this with each other. And then when I graduated and you actually have real world responsibilities, unlike college where a lot of times people's parents are paying for their housing, for their food.

There isn't real world responsibility on your shoulders. You leave college and you realize like, oh, I don't have like the emotional space or like the financial or the time space to be able to drop everything for friends anymore. That's only an expectation I would have for a romantic partner. Yeah, and let's talk about it

because as a bisexual woman, I do be doing that for girlies. I am dropping left and fucking right for the girls. And then all of a sudden, we're not dating. We're just friends. Yeah. And you don't have a job anymore. And I'm unemployed.

And I like truly like the last, I think the pandemic was, thank God I found the therapist I found when I found her because I have gone through so much with her where I'm like learning, I've learned about boundaries so much. And like, I used to blame other people for me dropping everything.

They never told me to drop everything. It's like, I've had friends who have never asked me to drop everything. I have like, I've had friends who have never asked me to drop everything. I have literally like dropped everything for them just because it's like I wanted to be there for them. And then I'm like, I've just learned so much about being like, oh, like you didn't ask for that. I just expected the world from you

because I was giving you the world and I need to learn how to set boundaries. Yeah, because I feel like on being on the other side of that when someone does something that's like kind of outrageously generous and selfless, I'm kind of like, whoa, what are you doing? Cause like now I'm a little uncomfortable because I'm not looking for the type of friendship

where I would do this for you. Yeah. And I don't want to let you down. It does create like, not that I think you were coming from a selfish place, dropping everything, but like in a way it, not that I think you were coming from a selfish place dropping everything, but in a way it gives- I think I was coming from a gay place. Yeah, gay and wanting to manufacture that closeness

that honestly we're all looking for and we all want, but some people don't want because they're either fulfilled in another relationship or they don't want it maybe specifically with you. It's so rude, but like- Yeah, so rude. Lydia is not in specifically with you, it's so rude. But like. So rude. Lydia is not in love with me, which is very clear. No, but yeah, no, it's true.

And I think like, I think the, I've learned a lot about the boundaries that I need to set. And that being said, there are some times where I'm like, I talk about this with my therapist all the time, but I really, I love being there for people. Like I love like helping people through things. I love giving advice. And so now it's like,

I'm learning to not expect it in return necessarily. It's kind of like that same rule of like, oh, let me get you a drink. It's like, if I get drinks, it's cause I wanna get drinks. It's not because I expect you to get drinks next time. It's cause I'm like, slay, I'm feeling so generous. Like when sounds like a cult first started to pop off and I was starting to make money

for the first time in my life. Such a great feeling. Girl, anyone who was my friend can tell you, I was the nicest bitch. I was buying drinks left and motherfucking right. I was putting $300 dinners on my tab. I was talking to my friend, Amanda Miller, the other day, and she was like, I met you, right,

when sounds like a cult was popping off. And she was like, my first thought about you was, this girl is so nice. And I was like, that's because I was making money. And I was like, why not spend it on the people you love? Which kind of proves my point of what I was like, that's because I was making money and I was like, why not spend it on the people you love? Yeah, which kind of proves my point of what I was saying earlier about your college friends, you would do anything for each other

because in a way you kind of did have that money. It wasn't yours, but you had it. And so you had the money to give, you had the generosity to give. You had the dining swipes. Yeah, you had that ethos of I can do anything for you because I love you. And then, yeah, when you I guess, like don't have that you're coming from like that scarcity mindset that I think, yeah, limits how close you can be with totally exactly. And so

I'm going to be a little podcasty right now, but just to like bring it back to like the definition of like, what is a friendship and then what, like how do we define a friendship and how do we define a breakup? I think we've kind of landed on like, the friendships that we're talking about in this debate are like really good friendships. Yeah, so are we, but are we including the like, the- Fast burn as well.

Okay. So I think it's like, maybe, I think you're definitely right on like, the length of the friendship. It's almost like maybe three months. It's almost like, you know, when you like meet someone on hinge or in person, like you meet someone that you date for three months,

it's almost like a bigger heartbreak because of what could have been. So I think we include that. We include best friendship and three month fast burn friendships in this debate of the friendship breakup. Is it right or wrong? To completely, and to define the breakup,

is it right or wrong to completely cut somebody out of your life? That's the breakup. Yeah. Right or wrong friendship breakups? Right, I think it's depending on the friendship. If they're serving you They're going through a hard situation wrong be there for them stick it through

But if it's just shit, you know it trim the fact some some friendships are temporary and you have to move on depending on What happened in the conflict but it's always sad Okay, so Lydia and I are going to debate friendship breakups Are they right or wrong? Is it right or wrong to completely cut a friend out of your life? And I'm going to argue that it is right. It's actually only right. And doing anything else is wrong because it's important to fully cut off people because

it allows you to focus on your own growth and your own mental health and the ability to not be triggered by your relationships. So that's like kind of the first reason. The second reason is because we're all on our own path. And just because I cut you out of my life doesn't mean that you don't like the person. Right? Like I think there's this theory on Tik Tok that's called it. I don't like the person, right? Like I think there's this theory on TikTok that's called, I don't know if it's a TikTok theory or it's like a psychology theory, but it's like the let them theory.

You heard of that one? So there's that theory that it's like, let them. If they don't wanna talk to you anymore, let them. If they cut you out of their life, let them. There are so many things in life that we cannot control. And what you can control is who you surround yourself with and who you choose to love and who you choose to give time to.

And some of the few things that we have like in this life is like time and resources. We have unlimited love for sure, mom vibes. I love that you just said that. It's really wonderful. But we don't, I'm a good person vibes. I love that you just said that. It's really wonderful. But we don't, I'm a good person. But we don't have unlimited time. And so I think if you want to prioritize your time

on the people that you do love, it's important to sometimes snip, snip. And my final point is stats. And I'm just kidding. I point is stats. I have some stats. According to the American Survey Center, we make just 29 real friends in our lifetime and only six of them last.

Wow. And then there was another study which chartered the social lives of 2000 people. And it showed that we lose touch with almost 50% of friends that we make. Wow. And that would guess actually even a higher. Yeah, I would have guessed higher.

And so my question is, what kind of person are you going to be? Are you going to be the kind of person who lets that drag out? Or are you just going to cut it off and save time? One of the biggest lessons I learned in grad school and it has to do with like nonprofits and also business as a business person. One of the best things that you can do is to recognize failure. If you recognize that you're failing in someone,

end it, cut it off, move on to the next. And that's like a business mindset. Sunk cost sort of thing, right? Yeah. Or avoiding sunk cost. Yeah, a lot of like CEOs and people will say like if your business is failing, move on to the next business. And in a way it's like,

why don't we approach friendships in that way? If it's failing and you recognize it's failing, cut it off, move on to the next. And so my closing argument is that in order to move on, grow as a person, become the best person that you can and find those friendships that you are gonna have for life, you have to break up with the friends that aren't working. And that's why friendship breakups are correct. Okay, wow. Thank you. I'm arguing against friendship breakups and why they shouldn't happen. And

I prepared some, you know, I prepared some research and some arguments. My biggest argument against friendship breakups is that there is so obviously a better alternative, which is just distancing yourself politely from someone. Less dramatic, much chiller. And well, the most important thing is that it leaves room for you to potentially grow back into that person And into that friendship

I think a thing you talked a lot about is growth and I totally see that like we are ever-changing beings and You never are you're always an act of becoming and it's important to surround yourself It's important to surround yourself with with people who to support your growth. But as much as it's important to grow and live many lives you don't want to outgrow your past life so much that you become this untethered being floating through life bouncing from one identity to the next because most of all we are defined by our relationships. So if you cut ties one after the other, and you set the precedent that friendship breakups are okay,

who do you become? I think also one of the great, great, great joys of life is rehashing shared memories with friends. And what a beautiful thing it is to be sitting with an old friend on a couch, talking about something that happened five years ago when we were juniors in college and we were at that basketball frat. Girl, you're aging us. I actually made us younger.

Oh, okay. Five years ago, I don't think I was a junior. Two years ago. Two years ago, I was four years old. Yeah. Like that is like one of, I don't know about you, but I love nothing more than catching up with an old friend and bringing up shit and like, well, even, you know, my, um, my storage unit got broken into and I called my friend

and I also told her about my panic attack. And she was like, this makes this tracks. Like you've always always since you were like five years old been afraid of home invasions and of intruders. She's like, you literally slept with a knife next to your bed. And I was like, oh my God, you're so right. And then we were like chuckling about that with each other

and what a beautiful thing it is to have a friend who has known me since I was five years old. Have you had moments where you've been in and out of each other's lives? For sure, but I hold on to that friendship. Partly because on principle, and I know I'm now talking about personal stuff and I didn't mean to, but on principle, I think there's something so important about having friends who knew you, knew earlier iterations of yourself. Because we've changed, like we both have changed so much.

I've changed so much, but I think there's this like inherent importance in staying, continuing connections with people who knew you before you tried to become all the things you wanted to become. And then the other thing that's like more of a pragmatic reason why friendship breakups are just like so extreme is that you are jeopardizing also your mutual connections with that person. Like then then your mutual friends have to go through this

dance of who side am I taking? Who is my friend? We were talking earlier before we started recording about how painful it is when you see a friend of yours hanging out with someone who is your declared enemy. Yeah. And that, so you're basically forcing all your friends, once you go through a friendship breakup, you're forcing all those mutual friends to have to pick a side.

And then that inevitably is gonna lead to hurt, more hurt for you because friends that you like are gonna pick the side of the friend you're breaking up with. And it's gonna be painful unnecessarily because this gets to my main thesis argument, which is that I totally get the impulse to want to no longer be friends with someone,

but there are ways about it that protect peace in a way that's better for you and for them that don't require this big dramatic conversation of like, we're done. But then there's also the friendship breakups that go no contact. So my question to you is like, how long can you go no contact with someone

until it's declared a breakup or it's declared you're both just taking your time? Like how many times do you ignore someone's text before someone gets the point of being like, oh, we're no longer friends? Um, because I, because you're saying you can have space between people and you can come back together. How long, like for example, you and your friend who have known each other since you were kids, how long would you say you would have had to go without talking to her for you to be like, yeah, we're not friends anymore.

I think with this friend, we could go 15 years and I would see her and we would, and this is what my dad would always say, is the mark of a good friendship. You see your friend after not seeing them for many years and it feels like one of you just got back from going to the bathroom. Actually, that will make me cry.

There we go. There we go. Okay, cute. Oh my God, tears in your eyes. But yeah, I just think that a friendship breakup where you fully ghost someone or you have a conversation of we're breaking up is the most extreme, and there are steps before that that basically allow for more healing

and potential re-ignition of the friendship years down. And what's the harm in that? Breaking up with your friend is the wrong thing to do because it doesn't leave any space for healing. I think breaking up with a friend is the right thing to do because you can't be friends with everybody and you need space to take care of yourself. Okay, so Lydia, what do you actually feel about friendship breakups? Do you think they're right or do you think they're wrong?

I actually think generally I think they're right. And as much as I do like stand by what I said, I genuinely do think that friendships that last many, many years are, especially friendships from your childhood, those are very precious relationships, but not all of them are built to last. And so the ones for me that have lasted are unique.

And a lot of them have faded away or we have had somewhat kind of like dramatic, I wouldn't say endings, but like dismantling. Yeah. So the reason I think like this conversation, this part of the conversation is so important is because there's so much nuance in everything that we're talking about.

We were just debating the extremes, right? Like, is it right or is it wrong? And the thing is, everything you said, I also completely agree with in that like, it is maybe healthier to take space. So what I was gonna say about this friend is like, this was one of my best friends and I will name him by his name, his name is Nick.

She's naming. She's up in names. Because I- She's brave. Because I'm brave and I have formally decided to categorize it as a friendship breakup. That does not mean I'm not open though, if he reached out to me and was like, hey, I miss you.

But the reason it's a breakup in my mind is because I'm done. I'm done, baby. I'm done putting in the effort. That was one of those relationships where he was my best friend from college. And I started to do that check where I was like, oh, we only ever talk when I call him

or we only ever talk when I reach out. And then we planned the ski trip and it was like my birthday ski trip and a week before the trip, he's like, hey, actually he didn't even text me. He texted my friend Tori and he was like, hey, I'm not coming on the trip anymore. Like I did get a job offer so I good, but like I haven't signed the paperwork.

So like, I just want to like take it easy on spending money. Texted her did not text me. And Tori's like, Hey, can, Hey, like Nick isn't coming anymore. Do you think you can find someone else to like fill in the Airbnb? And I was like, it's a week out my guy. Like what are, so I texted him and I was like, dude, are you serious? Like it's fine if you cancel, but like you kind of have to pay for your part of the Airbnb. Like it's really expensive.

He didn't text me back. He has not texted me in two years. And this was a best friend from college. This is my best friend from college. Like there's videos of us in college where like, he would like take off my makeup for me. Like it's like, it's really sad. And there's a lot of parts of me that feel like

that was his last straw maybe with like me not empathizing enough with him for his job, or like he maybe felt like I would have gotten really mad at him if he had talked to me first. But that was kind of what I was referring to of like, I'm an empathetic person, I can hear you out. If you come with me, if you come to me first, but that was kind of what I was referring to of like, I'm an empathetic person. I can hear you out. If you come with me, if you come to me with like

space and vulnerability and an apology, kind of like you said, I'm there to like hear you out, but like you didn't even give me the space. You went to Tory. Now you're not talking to me. So like I categorize that as a friendship breakup, even though we didn't ever have a conversation, which is why I think there's so much nuance. Totally and that is so interesting because I'm like I'm trying to understand where you are with it and it seems like you've closed the door

on it but like the screen the window with the screen is open yeah and you're willing to let like you have forgiveness in your heart. I've already forgiven. I've already, but I think the root of the issue for me with him was already the lack of effort. So I'm like, why should I be the one to check in when I was already doing all that before? Yeah, yeah. I'm in an interest, I'm like kind of in the middle

of potentially a friendship breakup right now. I'm like kind of in the middle of potentially a friendship breakup right now. For me, I'm like really twiddling my thumbs about whether I wanna do it or not because- Is it the one we've talked about? Yeah, it's the one we've talked about. And it's the one where I was like, I just need space. And she was like, can we have a date where we like talk?

And I was like, great idea. And the date's like coming up, like within a couple days. Oh, you guys said it? Yeah, we said it like three months ago and now it's coming up and I weirdly feel like, I still feel the same kind of like dread and like frustration that was there three months ago,

which was the reason why I asked for space. And so I'm kind of like, why? And I don't wanna get into all of the reasons why I felt like I needed this space because it would just take too long. And also, yeah, I don't wanna air her business. Well, I think to your point of just even the substance of it, you guys kind of set a date

and that's inherently confrontation. And so I feel like you're like in a place where it sounds like you are okay with putting space on it and you don't feel good. Like there's no resolution inside of you. So a confrontation maybe feels like it's not the move right now because like you haven't gotten over

whatever it is that you were feeling. No, yeah. And I wanna, I don't think I want to break up with her. Because like I said, I really do cherish long friendships and I don't have that many of them. Part of the complexity of our whole relationship is like, I don't feel like she really wants to hang out with me.

Did you ever watch Frances Ha? Yeah. Do you know the line that's like, don't treat me out. Don't treat me like a one hour brunch friend. Yeah. Where, and this is like, kind of goes back to the whole thing I was talking about, like shifts. Of like, wait, we saw each other in college

at our lowest lows. Like I know everything about you and you know everything about me. And like, we are best friends. And now all of a sudden, I feel like in this adult life that we're in, you're like slotting me into like an hour and 15 minute calendar chunk. There is no worse feeling than feeling like you're slotted

into somebody's calendar. I saw a TikTok of this girl being like, I love my friends where we get, it's a three drink dinner. Did you see that one? No, but I didn't. Yeah, it's like a three drink dinner and you have no plans afterwards. Where is the night taking us?

I wanna hang out with my friend who I'm going through this rift with. I wanna hang out with her and her not have anything to go to afterwards. I want us to just fucking chill together. And she always has like five plans still packed in the day. And I'm like, okay, like, I just feel like I'm about this check in a box.

And that is kind of getting into the reason for it. But this is also getting into the reason why I don't really feel like hanging out because it is so stressful scheduling a hang. Because again, like I am this, like, we have to find like the small sliver in our calendars where also I feel like I do a thing, just a little moment of self-awareness where like,

if I feel like- They're being hard to- Yeah, I'm like, well I'm unavailable. Yeah. I know whenever someone asks me for my avails, I'm like, let me check my calendar. I open my calendar, it's like open every day, nine to five PM, I have like one show at eight PM.

I know, but then like the problem with us. Someone should make a meme of like a dog standing in front of an empty calendar and it's like, let me check my calendar. They just have like a one walk a day. I know, but I do think this is like something so specific to us where we both don't have a job. Yeah.

We have a job. We have jobs. We have jobs. We just are in charge of our own calendars. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I choose to leave it blank. Yeah. And that's a choice of a self-employed body.

And also, by the way, it's like someone who has a day job, like you're not glued eyeballs to the screen, nine to five. It's like people are scrolling, people are texting, people are sending each other memes, you know, especially. Except for my boyfriend. Oh yeah, he's a chef. Yeah, yeah. Which by the way, when's that guy gonna cook for us?

Soon, soon. He cooks for you all the time. Yeah, yeah, on the patio though. When I have my party, some of you guys might be invited. And if you're not invited, take that as a sign that you have been broken up with. Exactly. So we've debated this to the extremes. I argued that friendship breakups are right.

You argued that they're wrong. And then we talked about how there's obviously nuance and it's okay, first of all, that's why we're making this podcast. It's okay to agree to disagree, but what do you think? Like how has my opinion changed? Has it changed and where do you stand? Yeah.

Well, I definitely found when I was preparing for this podcast, convincing myself that I was like, oh wait, the argument I'm arguing for is actually the correct argument. And I find myself after talking with you like right back kind of to maybe like the middle of like, yeah, there's nuance. It's really context dependent and there isn't really a blanket right or wrong rule for friendship

breakups. How do you feel? I agree. I think that if there was a third option, which would be to, I think it's right to be okay not talking to someone. But like, I do think that like a conversation, unless someone did something like objectively wrong. Horrible, yeah. Horrible, like, had an affair with your boyfriend,

or like stole money from you, unless it's something like that requires confrontation, the best option is to fall out. Fall out and if you need to have a talk of like, hey, I'm just taking space right now, I don't want this friendship to end, I just really need the space, which is kind of what I did. Like, I think that's a good, I mean,

it's kind of worked out for me where I still have a lot of love for this person, but I'm like, I love you so much, I just need some space. Yeah. You are really persuasive. Thank you. You really are. You have a you didn't even know what side you were arguing in the game. And then you just crushed it. So I'm like, yeah, you won. OK, thanks. I think that it was pretty equal because you convinced me to.

I also know that you were doing a really good job because I was taking everything you said so personally. I was like, did she read my diary? Yeah, that one thing though that I said about being like an untethered, like being just floating, like when I'm depressed, that's like, that's the visual I have in my brain of like who I am. I'm like, I'm connected to no one and nothing if I just deleted.

Yeah, that's like someone's worst enemy is thinking of yourself as not having friends because you've set boundaries or something like that. Yeah, I saw this hilarious reductress meme that was like, I protected my peace and now I'm bored. Yeah. I think that is the title of this episode. Yeah, I protected my piece and now I'm just like a floating non-important speck in the

universe who has no connections to anyone. Yeah. We've talked about this. I think we've talked about this a little bit and then we should wrap it up. That's why I think it's so important to be in tune with politics even though they hurt sometimes, even though it hurts to know the truth and the realities and the hardships of the world, because I think that in order to truly feel joy,

you have to also feel sadness. And I think emotions, they run along a spectrum, and it's like you said, it's like if you protect your peace fully, you're just floating around. You're living under a rock, but also floating on a rock. Yeah. Yeah.

You're under a rock floating in the universe. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for listening to this episode. Thanks guys. You did the right thing. Yeah, this was right. Correct. Correct me.

Morally sound for you to listen to the whole episode. And let us know what you think. Are friendship breakups right or wrong? Vote on the poll on Instagram. Tell us your stories. Also, if it feels cathartic to share in any comment section, whether it's YouTube, Instagram, your friendship breakup story, please do.

Yeah. We're here to overshare. We're here. On the internet, so. Yeah. Yeah, like and subscribe, baby. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm Right, Your Wrong podcast was created, hosted, and produced by Lydia Keating and Issa Medina. This episode was edited and produced by Alexandra Trigva Dottir. you