Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Apple

Episode Date: January 17, 2023

The stigma around the green text bubble alone could ruin a man's life. How has Apple's secretiveness, superiority complex, and (admitted) marketing genius put our culture's social dynamics and behaviors in such a chokehold? In this week's much-anticipated 'sode, Amanda and Isa analyze how Apple built not just a multi-trillion-dollar tech business, but a "cult" (allegedly!!!), and spoiler alert: We're all a part of it, whether we like it or not. To support Sounds Like A Cult on Patreon, keep up with our live show dates, see Isa's live comedy, buy a copy of Amanda's book Cultish, or visit our website, click here!

The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable facts. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. So we're here in LA, outside of the Apple Store, asking people what they think the cultiest thing about Apple is. And surprise, surprise, everyone walking out of the store is already too self-important to help us answer the question.

No, no. We're doing our best out here. We are wondering if we could ask you if you think Apple is a cult and why. I think it can be, because I've seen people who have like the Apple Watch, the laptop, the tablet, the AirPods, the headphones, and they go to bat for it and they're like, oh my god, Apple. I think it could be culty, I don't think it's a cult. We're wondering if you think if Apple is a cult or not, and why.

100%. Because Android honestly is better in every way possible, but I think it's just because it's easy and like they're kind of abusing that fact over like how everybody wants their life to just be kind of straight forward or straight edge. I personally don't like using Apple products, but I use them just because they're easy to use. I mean, I don't know about y'all, but yeah. And even though everybody says that, everybody's like, I'm gonna still get Apple and shit. So I feel like the people that are really into Apple are just supporting the madness.

Are you filming? I tend to see a lot of people feel like some sort of entitlement because they own an Apple product. We were wondering if you think Apple is a cult-like group and why. No, that's a weird question. It's a phone company, I don't know, it's not a cult. It's not a cult? I mean, you got our phone, you think it's a cult? Kind of.

I mean, we have like the iPhone, the MacBook, the Apple Watch. It's my good product, so that'll make it just a good company. Okay. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about modern day cults we all follow. I'm Issa Medina and I'm a comedian touring all over the country. I'm Amanda Montell, the author of the book Cultish the Language of Fanaticism. Every week on our show, we discuss a different group or guru that puts the cult in culture, from Starbucks to the Boy Scouts, to try and answer the big question.

This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? To join our cult, follow us on Instagram at SoundsLikeAcultPod. I'm personally on Instagram at AmandaunderscoreMontell. And I'm on Instagram at Issa Medina, I-S-A-A-M-E-D-I-N-A-A, where you can find tickets to my live shows. We also have a Patreon, and we appreciate your support there at patreon.com. I'm pretty sure that the Apple Overlords knew that we were recording this episode. Actually, I'm not sure that they knew.

I just know for a fact that Apple has taken over our lives, because last night my entire YouTube algorithm was like, watch this video about the opening of this Apple Store in Singapore that looks like a fishbowl from the future and is in the middle of a pond. Well, they probably do know, because they have access to all of our text messages and our emails and our phone calls. So they've been hearing us talk about it, and then they've been hearing us Google about it.

I'm just Googling Apples, Apples. But we're talking about Apple products, famously, technology. You know, Apple might not look like a classic 70s era cult where everybody's got a flower crown and a robe, but when you walk into a coffee shop and everybody's got a MacBook, an iPhone, AirPods, la, la, la, it fucking looks like a cult. It really does. I walked into one the other day, and it was like six laptops in a row,

and they were the exact same space gray color. And I was like, oh no, looks like a cult, smells like a cult. Sounds like a cult, baby. Amanda, how should we slide into this cult? How should we? No, no, no, we don't have slide phones anymore. They're just these chunky blocks. Yeah, actually, we're going to Face ID our way into talking about the cult of Apple.

I know, it's like, that was actually, I think, a pretty healthy barrier of entry when you had to slide or flip your phone open. Yeah, or like a good old fashioned password, whatever happened to those, like Face ID, you can use a dead person's face, like that's a red flag. Like in the movie Bodies, Bodies, Bodies. I was also thinking about how like, you know, little children

who have iPhones, the technology knows what their face looks like at every phase of their upbringing. I can't even imagine what the algorithms are going to look like in the future, because kids now have iPhones since they're like born. Yes. And the phone is internalizing their Goo Goo Gaga's. Goo Goo Gaga actually means I want milk now.

That is a linguistics PhD dissertation that I'm writing in another life. But it is kind of frightening how Apple knows your face better than you do and could potentially like serve you advertisements, skincare or other kind of things that things would match your face. It really does.

And that's just one scary aspect of the cult of Apple. I mean, thinking about Apple in the context of a cult can mean so many things. In part, it's a compliment because their marketing is fire. OK, I'm a new soul, literally. And as a company, they've really captured the zeitgeist in a transcendent cult-followed way where they really feel like they're in the know of our know.

You know? Yes, yes, totally. And you have to respect that on some level. But then again, Apple is ultimately this massive profit-driven tech company. And when a quote unquote community of geniuses like that gains so much power not only over its employees, but the culture at large, all of society, that's risky business.

So we're going to try and look at the cult of Apple from as many different angles as we can, including our own personal experience. Because Lord knows I do not be texting with green. I'm sorry. I'll text someone who has an Android, but I'm not the Android user myself. I'm sorry.

Well, yeah, I mean, off the top, Apple sounds like a cult because of that us versus them division. Apple versus Android is such a culty narrative. The company is also very secretive and very self-important. I mean, there's a huge amount of internal turnover. And that begs the question, are people being kicked out or are people not wanting to stay? Tomato, tomato.

Sorry, that's not how you use that phrase. Break up, breakie. Yeah, well, it's interesting because in 2021, the New York Times reported that over 500 current and former Apple employees had made a bunch of culty allegations against the company, stuff like verbal abuse, sexual harassment, discrimination. They did this in an Apple employee activist group

called hashtag Apple too. And these accounts were a big deal because the company has this culture of like, you must protect Apple at all costs, which some of these employees said discouraged them from speaking freely out of fear. And this loyalty secrecy stuff is kind of an Apple's DNA. I mean, it keeps coming up.

In 2012, there was a New York Times reporter named David Siegel who wrote this whole expose on the quote unquote cult of Apple. And one of the things that he revealed was that employees of Apple are required to report how likely they are to stay working there. And get this, people who reply a nine, a level nine, are labeled promoters. And people who reply a seven or less,

seven still sounds pretty high, are labeled detractors, which is giving cultish Scientology language. Whoa, definitely. And like a nine out of 10, right? So like a seven out of 10 is still 70%, okay? Still good. Yeah, you have to be so all in in order to get Apple's blessing.

Which almost feels like sacrificial in a way. You know, like you have to be so far in that you're willing to sacrifice certain things, like maybe a promotion or proper pay or time with your family. Not to mention, everyday consumers are inducted at such a young age. I wanted to ask you, what was the first Apple product that you had?

That's a great question because I have lived my whole life trying to resist the cult of Apple. Like I just got a new phone, but I only wanted the 12 mini. I didn't want any of the like state of the art bullshit. And when I went to the Apple store and bought it, they wanted me to unbox it like ceremoniously and like bow and pray. And I was like just fucking open it.

I don't want the best camera. I don't want the best tech. I just want my 12 mini for my small ass hands. Wait, you resisted even like an elementary school or middle school? Yeah, well in high school, everybody's, when I was in high school, everybody started getting iPods. And I was like, fuck that.

And I'm so annoying. I used to walk man and CDs until 2011. Okay, I'm so young. I literally was in a Montreal school when the iPod mini came out. So Bazooka, I don't know, that's not young. But I do remember when the iPod mini came out. We got it behind my dad's back because he was like,

I'm not spending that kind of money. And then me and my sister like begged my mom to get us an iPod mini that we shared. And I snuck it onto the bus. I like showed it to my friend in the bus on the way to school. And it was ceremonial. It was like, oh my God, this thing is so expensive. And back in the day, LOL,

you weren't allowed to like have technology on the bus. You could get in trouble for like bringing it to school. I just remember that being like one of the coolest moments of my life in high school. I begged my parents for a MacBook, like the white MacBook with photo booth. And they said no. And so then I asked my grandma, hee hee hee.

And she gave it to me as a combined like Christmas birthday present for like two years. Before my MacBook days, my parents gave me my dad's old Dell, which I did famously find during the pandemic and make that TikTok. And it went like mega viral. Oh my God, it's funny.

I remember that. I made, hey, follow me on Instagram to see the TikTok. I'll repost it. But people like freaked out. They were like, oh my God, this is so vintage. I was such a little shithead that my password hint was like nice try, not going to happen. That's so you.

That's so you. But then as an adult, I was like, what the fuck is my password? I know you betrayed your future self. Then TikTok commenters taught me how to like log into the laptop. That is communalism for the better. One of the things I found on my old Dell was like my contract for getting a dog that I wrote. Oh yeah, that's what it was.

I wrote a contract about like why my parents should get me a dog and like how I would walk it and how I would be responsible for like picking up the poop. But I wrote a clause in there, smart kid. I was like, but if the dog does poop in the house, you're not allowed to like hit the dog. I was like, I literally wrote that. I was like, you're not allowed to like be mean to the dog.

It doesn't know what it's doing. You are a pretty precocious negotiator. Like even now I would say stop it. I always wanted to be a lawyer, but then I realized I like hate studying. So reading contracts and lawyer shit, I don't want to do that boring shit either. You know what's another contract I don't want to read?

Terms and conditions. Yeah, terms and fucking conditions. Bro, literally it's like why even bother showing it to us when we have to agree. It's coercion, it is the illusion of choice which cults are notorious for, but also because of the new law recently, I've been asking app not to track.

I have been demanding. App, I have been asking app not to track. I have been asking respectfully do not track. Yeah. And I'm also like, you want my cookies bitch? Suck my dick. Not gonna happen. Okay.

Do not allow. I want my cookies. You know, it's funny how words that used to apply to real world like physical interactions now apply to digital interactions. So children coming of age now only understand that word to mean the digital thing. Like kids now no wonder they're unwell.

They don't know about a fresh baked cookie. They only know about the cookie that tracks you. Yeah, RIP dude. I don't know. Like I saw some girl from my high school who's like a year older than me. Has like a three year old kid. And I was just like, oh no.

Yeah, yeah. Like that kid is going to want an iPhone soon. I didn't get an iPhone until I was 19 years old. I remember the first person who got an iPhone in my periphery was a friend in middle school. And I remember being so shook by its features, like the flashlight app was like, whoa. That was groundbreaking to me.

We're wondering if you think that Apple is culty in any way. I think it's completely a cult. Yeah. Why? They make it to where everything can be used like in one system. So like if you have a, if you're gonna have a laptop and a phone and a tablet, it might as well be Apple because we can send stuff to each other,

to all of them easily and like all that stuff. People don't, like they already go into it knowing that their product is going to be good. So they don't have like a kind of mind of their own to say like, oh wait, maybe my phone's bad. Like even though it's Apple, it's bad because it has such a good name. All the big brands, for example, like Gucci and Apple

and all of that, I feel like they all have some sort of cult face. I think for everyone in America, something that really resonated was the vision of Apple as a company. Like it's really a representation of the American dream. Steve Jobs was born to a Syrian father who was an immigrant, a German American mother. He was later adopted and then he started his company

from scratch out of a garage. He dropped out of college. Yeah. And so many people have attempted to follow in those really rare footsteps. I mean, there is no cause and effect between like dropping out of a prestigious university and going on to found one of the most profitable, if not the most profitable tech company of all time.

But people really try to follow that model. And in some cases, you know, they find success. And in some cases, they turn into Elizabeth fucking Holmes. But that is cult leader energy when you have such a strong aesthetic and such a marketable lofty success story that people think they can achieve enlightenment like you. Yeah. It really is the quintessential American dream. And he knew that, I think, you know,

I think he like leaned into the idea that every moment is so precious. I mean, the keynote speeches, the unveiling of every product. Like there is such ritual and liturgy to Apple, everything from how the products are first presented to the public to how you're supposed to unbox them in the store. There is this incredibly aspirational reverence associated with the brand.

And because the brand has really overtaken our society, you kind of almost don't have a choice. You have to be in the cult of Apple to some degree. And yet you feel so privileged and honored that you get to be. Yeah. Although I do think that like lately, now that we're on like literal iPhone 14, people are like, OK, bitch, like what's going to happen? Are we going to be on iPhone 53 soon?

It's like, slow your roll. It's so frustrating that like public companies have to just continue growing, which is like something I recently found out about because investors want to make their money back. And so the idea is that they can never stop. And like that is capitalism's biggest problem. Oh my God, yes.

As they've grown their product base, that's how it's also gotten culture. I mean, it's kind of like put its claws in different aspects of your life. They started just with computers, then they expanded to cell phones, then they expanded to Apple Watches, which have to do with your health and running

and your heartbeat. Now they've expanded to the cloud and storage, which is something that holds all of your memories that you hold near and dear to your heart. And so they really like have control of every aspect of our lives. Yes. Always growth, always growth.

It's like, when are we going to just like be happy with what we have in front of us? Wow. Well, once again, we are getting real existential, real quick on the pod today. I don't think it comes to any surprise that Steve Jobs kind of created this cult-like energy around him. When he dropped out of college,

he actually went to India to travel and seek enlightenment. So I mean, he kind of felt maybe like he had this higher reasoning to like pursue and promote his vision onto the world. You can really see that in the way that he like built his company and the language around it. And the aesthetic, I mean,

what Apple crushes almost more than any other tech brand is that sense of imagery. It's almost like stained glass in a Catholic church. Like you can't help but feel awe-inspired by the vision of their branding and the graphics and the products themselves. It really creates that sense of elitism and exclusivity. Like I get to hold this precious jewel of an object

when I touch Apple. And yet in a way, it's so condescending too because I mean, I remember like the first time I bought an Apple product, like my MacBook, I was like, oh my God, this is like the most expensive thing I've ever had in my life. It's literally my next three birthday gifts combined and Christmas.

And they just hand it to you in a tiny fucking box. And now they don't even like give you a charger with your iPhone. Yeah, I think like a lot of notorious cults. They started the brand with like a lot of ceremony and packaging and all the bells and whistles you needed in order for your products to function. And then slowly they keep taking it away.

They keep changing the outputs. They make it so that your product is non-functional every couple of years so that you have to buy something new. They betray the promises slowly so that you're not gonna automatically be like, oh my God, what traders I'm gonna defect from this cult. It's like at a point you've been so long in the cult of Apple

that you're like, okay, at this point, it's not what I was promised, but like sunk cost fallacy, I'm in. Yes, and they do that under the disguise that it is simplicity. That because they were the first minimalism, they were the first brand to have a like walk-in store with these huge desks, these huge tables,

just the product, no cashier people helping you directly. And then they were also like the first brand to have a genius bar instead of an IT bar. Think of that language, the genius bar. Like everyone working in that store is an enlightened genius that you should be so honored to interface with. Yeah, and back in the day, it's like people selling you computers

were wearing a suit and tie and they were like the first company to be like, no, actually we're gonna be in t-shirts because we're so chill, bro. The first Apple commercials, like do you remember that? Oh, Apple commercials have always been such a vibe, like the sound design. I mean, I remember early Apple commercials

were associated with like thought leaders. They kept saying, think different. So good at branding themselves and coming up with these slogans that promise something bigger than just technology. Do you remember the song New Soul? Like, I'm a new soul, I came to this strange world. Apple, the Apple commercial literally like blew that song up.

It's like the Mac guy versus the PC guy ads featuring Justin Long. He comes on the screen and he like pulls out his iPhone and he's just like a cool, chill guy. It was literally like the first commercial ever to just have like a blank background. Someone walk in front and it's just the product. It's just the iPhone.

Oh, it's, it's high key genius bar. It is genius marketing. I mean, the bar is set and it is genius. But now you see them using that bar to manipulate you into thinking that you're getting a high value product and instead they're like not giving you a wall plug charger. They're changing the outlets every five minutes so that like you have to get new headphones.

You have to get Bluetooth headphones. You have to get a wireless charger. All of those things are additional costs but they also make it seem like they're tangible costs because they break it up into monthly payments, which is something that a lot of brands are doing because people cannot literally afford the lifestyles that they are living.

Yeah, and that is really manipulative. That us versus them dichotomy that Apple builds between Apple users and everyone else is undeniably culty. I don't know if Apple began that like, oh, it's a red flag if they text back and it shows up green. I don't know if Apple was behind that meme but regardless, their culture is behind that meme and it's so insidious because it's classist.

It's elitist. It's just unnecessary to divide people that way and yet Apple is like smugly sitting in their throne. Like, hell yeah. Yeah, on this podcast we discuss the important things. We're not questioning if the CIA is tapping our phone calls. We're questioning if Apple is behind the green text slander. Yeah, I agree.

I think that's such a red flag of a cult. I don't think they necessarily created the narrative around the green text versus the blue text but it's not like they're not leaning in. You know what I mean? They are sitting back and watching the comments from their throne with their hands behind their head. I mean, who can blame them?

Who can blame them? I don't know that I would interfere with that narrative either if it showed up organically. I don't know either. I'm currently texting a guy with green text and I'm like, what, am I just supposed to send a text and hope it delivers? I'll like send an emoji and I'll be like,

that was a smiling face emoji by the way. But back to my fucking days where I refused to get an iPod because I wanted to listen to my Walkman. I almost like the rebellion. Almost if I could opt in to my iPhone text showing up green, I might just do it to resist. You can, you can. You can just turn off the iMessage function.

Oh, turn off iMessage. Maybe I'll give that a go because, you know. Dude, actually that's a really good way of like setting boundaries on the weekends. Or like if you need to write, if you turn off your iMessage feature, I know you have it off on your laptop but if you turn it off on your iPhone,

then you can like, you know, just write. Actually, that's a really good idea. Oh, I love that. And maybe it will like cause a self-selection process where people won't want to text me because texts are showing up green and I'll be like, good, then you don't love me that much and we're not supposed to be in each other's lives.

That reminds me of something even culture that's new on their latest iPhones is that they have a digital SIM card. There's no longer a physical SIM card. So if you get a new iPhone, like iPhone 13 or 14, there is no SIM card. If you want to like leave the country, first of all, you have to then do it under your current provider.

Like you can't just like buy a cheap SIM card in another country. But second of all, I had a second phone. I have a flip phone at home that like, I sometimes in state of mental health emergencies, I would take my SIM card out of my iPhone and put it in my flip phone. And I can't do that anymore

because it's a digital SIM card. And I asked them, I was like, what if I want to use my flip phone? They were like, sorry, you can't like, you would literally have to go to the AT&T store and ask for the SIM card. Okay, that is truly putting forth this sense of conformity because we're not allowed to like customize the experience

that we want to have. What if in a state of early 2000s revival, I was like, you know what? I never had a magenta motorola razor back in the day. It's time. I want to heal that 12 year old within that never had the razor. I want a fucking razor.

And I want to put my damn SIM card in the damn razor. I can't have that truth now. Oh, you had one. Fuck off. But it was a slide, but it was a slide razor. Oh. But it was still pink. I want the flip.

I want the flip. Yeah, this conversation like already, I'm like, I want to defect out of the goddamn cult of Apple, but I can't because that's the thing is that the tech is good. And yet it wasn't always, you know, we were talking about how manipulative it is to sort of like coerce and trick you into having to get a new product

or a new attachment or a new do-dad-do-wop every couple months or years. But Apple was born in manipulation. A few days before we recorded this conversation, Elizabeth Holmes, defrauded CEO of Theranos, was sentenced to a little over 11 years in prison. Yeah. And, you know, who was her muse?

It was, I was about to say Donald Trump. Oh my God. I was going to say 11 from Stranger Things. From Stranger Things. Yeah, all of those people have cult followings. Anyways, no, Steve Jobs, everything from the turtleneck to presenting a product before it's really ready and before it's really functional.

When Steve Jobs first presented the iPhone, it didn't fucking work. He was just like, you know what? This is an amazing idea and I'm going to figure the rest out later. And that worked out for him because he did indeed figure the rest out later and it was just a toy.

But that paved the way for insidious masterminds like Elizabeth Holmes to do the same thing in the healthcare space. Yeah, and I'm not defending Elizabeth Holmes in any capacity, but I do think that an inherently frustrating aspect of the Elizabeth Holmes versus Steve Jobs thing is a bigger highlight of how men in our culture,

especially in tech and in like tech spaces, oh, they can just be like, oh, we'll figure it out later. We'll figure it out as we go. It's just inherently frustrating because the precedent that like the Elizabeth Holmes case set should have a lot of male CEOs who have made false promises shaking in their boots, but they're not.

When you're in Silicon Valley and you have these like larger-than-life aspirations and you're making these false promises, there's a legacy of men who made that normal and Steve Jobs is a huge part of that. And speaking of the specific men in the cult of Apple, everybody who has like a high forward-facing position in Apple looks exactly the fucking same.

There are all these like, skinny, bald, hipster-y, bespectacled dudes. There was Steve Jobs and then there's like the new guy. Who's the new, what's the new CEO's name? Elon Musk. Oh God, Tim Cook. I literally forgot that Tim Cook wasn't Steve Jobs. Like they made that transition so seamless.

I know, I know, and they're identical to wins. I know it's not the same name, but it literally sounds the same. Steve Jobs, Tim Cook. Single syllable, plosive. Yeah, and then the Apple Music interviewer who's an identical triplet with them, his name is Zane Lowe.

Yeah. It's like the first Elasties are the same. Yeah, it's exactly the same vibe. The conformity, dude. I can't with it. Why do you think people are so loyal to Apple? To me personally, in my opinion, it's the best product out there.

It's the most innovative and it's definitely something that's going to be controlling people in the future. What do you mean? I mean, there's already so many people using it now, so I think it's easy for them to use manipulative tricks on the public. Marketing stuff for sure.

Everything that goes from tracking, find my iPhone, all the information. Do something new next year, right? But almost every year it's kind of the same. All right, so we're popping off already, but let's maybe give some facts and figures to quantify the cult of Apple. I think there's the cult of the company culture

and then there's the cult of the following and the people who own the products to cover a bit on the company, which we're just going to touch on it a little bit. According to The New York Times, the company has around 160,000 employees worldwide. The sales have always been really high. I mean, in 1978, sales were at $7.8 million

or nearly $40 million in 2022, accounting for inflation. The company went public in 1980 and that same year, accounting for inflation, they made over $420 million alone. And it's only grown since then. In 2022, Forbes named Apple the most admired brand for the 14th year in a row. And you really can't achieve that

without having a really large cult following and also attachment, like a need for more. A codependence. Codependence, exactly. Yes. Easily on Google, you can find article after article, giving advice in like 14 steps or less for how you can structure your company like a cult

on the road to success. And Apple is always an example that they give of a cult-like brand that used us versus them mentalities and ends justify the means philosophies and charismatic leaders and a sense of transcendence to make the company more than the sum of its parts. To sort of briefly touch on the company culture aspect, new recruits are treated with a standing ovation

when they first start to work at Apple. A former Apple salesman told The New York Times when you're working for Apple, you feel like you're working for the greater good. So there is that organizational ideology aspect where it's like, you feel like Apple is not just your job, it's your sense of life purpose. Yeah, and it reminds me a little bit of Starbucks

because it doesn't just have people working at the headquarters working in like the technical arena who like have a degree in computer science or something like that, but it also has people working in the front-facing stores who can like just apply for the job because they like like the vibe of the store. And then they're told that there could be upward mobility

or they're promised that like they could potentially get a raise or they have this idea in their head that like maybe they'll move to headquarters or something. Yeah, it sort of speaks to this extreme juxtaposition of like glamour and wealth with Apple. Meanwhile, the people actually making these products and factories overseas, they are doing these tedious tasks

in these cramped factories day after day. They oftentimes live in dormitories where eight people sleep in bunk beds in the same room. Every single day, they are back in the factory assembling these Apple products. And that is very, very disturbing to me. Yeah, I think it's especially disturbing because the product is so expensive, right?

Like maybe if we were getting the product for cheaper, you could be like, okay, the company is paying these people who are building the product overseas less money because it's a cheap product. And again, that wouldn't mean that it's ethically okay. That would be more like the fast fashion cult, right? Exactly, it would be like the fast fashion cult.

But these iPhones are $1,000. So for $1,000, the person who's making the iPhone and doing the tedious tasks, they should be getting... Sorry, I'm getting so passionate about this. I know. That happens to me too.

Whenever I start choking in the middle of me talking about Scientology, I'm like, they're censoring me. Yeah. Or I just stuffed my face with the Snickers bar. But... One or the other. One or the other.

But they are literally profiting off the back of these people and why aren't those people making the iPhone doing these tedious tasks, making literally $50 an hour. Yeah, journalists actually have to work really hard to understand exactly what happens in Apple's culture because there's an incredible amount of control and secrecy that goes on there.

Yeah, I mean, according to The New York Times, staff are prohibited from talking to the media. And I mean, this could be because... I should say allegedly, the culture of secrecy that is stemmed from Steve Jobs' obsession with preventing leaks and the ceremonial culture around the keynote speech and the new product being released,

he wanted to maximize that public surprise when there was an official unveil. It creates this culture of fear and NDAs. And as we know, NDAs can cause a lot of cultural issues in companies for other reasons. A lot of cultishness, yeah. That also reminds me when I worked at the documentary production company I used to work.

I was an assistant to a documentary director and he would get hired to direct Apple commercials. And when they would call to set the schedule, they were so secretive about it. They were like, no one can know the location. It was like in the middle of Zion National Park. And I was like, bitch, you think I'm gonna talk about this

at my after work drinks? Like, I don't give a fuck. But they were like, do not tell a single soul. Yeah, the self-importance and the self-glorification is so fucking intense in Apple. But yeah, the culty aspect to me is sort of this pairing of secrecy and control, but also being associated with Apple is such a privilege.

Like, you're so honored to be there. You're so honored to have to keep things secret. You're so honored not to be able to speak freely because you're associated with this religiously lauded brand. Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of a lot of like big company names, like some of my friends who work for like MacKenzie or Deloitte or Google or Amazon. Hollywood production companies?

Yeah, when you're like graduating from college and you want to impress your parents, you know, they're like, where are you working? And if you say the random name of a company, no one fucking cares. But if you're like, yeah, I just got a job at Google. Everyone's like, oh my God, you could literally be working in HR.

Who fucking cares? Like you work at Google or you work at Deloitte or you work at MacKenzie. It's the name recognition. And nothing wrong with working in HR. I mean, HR is very, very important to company culture, all that jazz. I'm just saying it's a job.

Like it's not the next level of enlightenment. I mean, Toby from the office taught us the importance of HR. And my last company that didn't have any level. Yeah. Not having HR teaches you the importance of HR. Yes, exactly. But speaking of taking pride in your work life, there's almost something nice about that.

I mean, we all crave community. And we all want to impress our grandparents. We all want to impress our grandparents. No, respect your elders. But that collectivist attitude of like, this isn't about me. This is about a greater good. Or this is about the community of Apple

or this community that I'm in. I think that's very human. I think that's really beautiful. It's just that this community is a giant corporation. And as we often say on this podcast, when we talk about culticorporations, their bottom line is always going to be a million times more important than you

and your growth and your good treatment. And unfortunately, like I think in this day and age, we now see more and more that that has really negative consequences, not just on like society as a whole, to always seek more and more and more as a company. But on our environment and on people overseas working in unsafe conditions, you know? Or even just miserable conditions,

even if they're safe, like what about quality of life, you know? So we just wanted to touch briefly on like the company culture, but like, I mean, we could do a whole episode on that in and of itself, but I think it's just... I want to do a whole episode on the Cult of Silicon Valley. Like I want to talk about the fucking Nugler hats and shit, trust me. Yeah.

Yeah, but that is just one culty aspect of the Cult of Apple. I think one that affects us all is how they've expanded their product line so much. You're paying $8 a month for your Apple Watch, $10 a month for your cloud storage, $50 a month for your phone. You are paying a big chunk of your... I mean, I don't know how much people...

Money people are making these days, but like a large chunk of my money is going to Apple. Is going to Apple to control your life and to be the custodian of your life's precious moments? Yeah. I mean... And like, what if someone hacks Apple like literally? Exactly.

I mean, that's... How am I going to post my comedy clips? No, but High Key, I mean, exit costs are one of the biggest red flags of cultishness. You know, it's like the word cult is not enough to tell you how dangerous a group is, but exit costs are one of those top red flags. And I think the exit cost of defecting from the Cult of Apple

or of Apple kicking you out because something goes wrong with their technology or whatever it is, is like you lose your memories. You lose your photos. You lose your work. You lose everything you hold dear. Yeah. And you can't like sue them for that

or you can't do anything because you did the agree to terms and conditions. Terms and fucking conditions. That's why, and actually I need to do this, to have a hard drive and like upload all of your things from the cloud onto the hard drive so that you don't have to like continue buying more cloud storage.

And so that like you like own your thing on a physical drive that is like safe and in your home. It just makes me think of that Sex in the City episode where Carrie's MacBook like fucking craps out and it shows her a sad Mac and Aiden is like, you don't back up. I am Carrie in that episode. I'm not Carrie, generally,

but I am Carrie in that episode a little bit. A little bit, a little bit. You're a writer. I'm writer. I'm snarky. My shoe collection isn't as good and I don't have a walk-in closet, but that's okay. But you don't have like a toxic relationship

with some dude named Casey. I used to. Oh my God, my ex sometime. If my ex were rich, there are big vibes there for sure. But yeah, Casey is more like a Steve. I would say he's like a Steve meets like that jazz guy that she dates that like boobop boobop who like gives her the best sex of her life.

And yeah, enough about me. But I completely relate to Carrie in that moment when she's like, no, I don't back up because what? Now we all have to be like IT experts in order to protect ourselves from the cult of Apple. Yeah, but I guess my rebuttal to that is you're already a social media expert. So be an IT expert for like five seconds

and save your stuff. I know, I really, I should broaden my horizons. Let's talk about the worst case scenario of Apple's control over all of us. Yeah, I mean, we've all felt it. We've all sensed it and we've been saying it for years. Apple is making our iPhone slower when a new iPhone comes out. That is not a conspiracy theory.

It is true. According to NPR, Apple had to settle a consumer fraud lawsuit for $113 million by more than 30 states over allegations that it secretly slowed down old iPhones. And it was a controversy that's now being known as Battery Gate. And we have literally all felt this. Battery Gate, some brand consultant should have been broadened. Yeah, I don't think that was the best name.

That's probably why I hadn't heard of it until I was doing research for this episode. Yeah. It also shows how much control they have over the media that they literally control the news on their Apple news thing. I really hadn't seen a lot about this. I mean, this is a huge deal to not just slow down iPhones but MacBooks and make it so that if you don't update your computer,

you can't use the programs on it. That is so costly and also gets in the way of our day-to-day lives if our jobs are to use programs on our computers. Oh, absolutely. And despite the fact that they had to pay out this $113 million price tag, pay this huge fine, that didn't even make a dent in their profits. They are such a gigantic profitable company

that they can just behave badly and the consequences for them, it's a drop in the bucket. Exactly. It reminds me of my parking ticket theory, which I want to coin because I've said it on another episode, but it's the parking ticket theory of that one. Just call it parking ticket gate. Yeah, parking ticket gate theory, ESA coined,

I don't know how you say that. ESA trademark. ESA trademark. Yeah, that rich people can just park wherever they want because what is the fucking $200 parking ticket going to do for them? Nothing. They literally would rather spend $200 on a parking ticket

and park in front of a fire hydrant than not. And that's why fees, in my opinion, a public policy opinion, need to be a percentage of the value of the company or the value of the person so that it can actually be a deterrent to doing certain things. Fucking bureaucracy, though. Like no one's trying to work harder than they have to. And so they're like, oh, we have to do math.

No fucking thanks. Relatable. I actually remembered that when we interviewed Meg, our guest on the Cult of the Kardashians episode, it came out that she used to work for Apple. And this is not uncommon where we'll interview a guest and they'll be like, oh, actually, I was in this other cult that you covered and that other cult that you covered

because we're all a member of a multiple different cults. Oh, yeah. I remember we conducted a two-minute interview with Meg about working at Apple. Can I play it really quick? Oh, yeah. My name is Meg. The cultiest thing about Apple.

Everyone there really believed in Apple products and any time you brought up like, oh, this is really expensive for other people, they'd be like, yeah, but our product is the best. I'm like, is it the best? They never had any actual proof. And then everything was white and minimalist and dystopian kind of.

And when we'd have these company meetings where they would discuss the landscape of tech, they would paint Facebook and Google as these evil things. But they had the cool girl syndrome where they're like, we're not like other tech companies. It's like, yes, you are. You're the worst. They're literally, I remember we had, I'm sorry,

I think you've gone, but we had this, this was the year they became like a trillion dollar company. And they sent an email out to everybody to be like, champagne celebrations. And everyone's like, woo, trillion dollars. I'm like, why are we celebrating? Because none of us are making more money. Why are we celebrating that?

None of us are making more money. We're all paying $11 for salads. They don't even, Apple doesn't even give you food. Oh wait, it doesn't? Not like Facebook or Google. That's so Apple because like, they're so cheap. That's so Apple because they literally like, they wait to release like an update on the next product.

Yeah. Just so that you have to buy something else. They're so cheap. That's their whole amount. So cheap. Cheapest, rich, rich people are all cheap. Yeah. Wait a minute.

Rich people are all cheap? I did write some good ads for them though, for Apple Watch, for iPhone, for Apple Pay. Watch some TV ads. Oh, Apple Pay, I forgot. Apple Pay does slap. But it's not just an Apple thing. I mean, androids have that shit too.

It's just like a wireless thinking Mabob code. They really do just like beat into everyone's brains, whether you work for the company or your consumer of the company, that they are the best. That if you are not a patron of Apple, if you are not associated with Apple, there is something fundamentally, morally, spiritually wrong with you.

Yeah. Man, this makes me angry that I just got an Apple Watch. $8 a month though. Pretty cheap. Oh my God. But Meg also made me think of like the aesthetic of the stores is very future dystopian. It makes me think of like the spaceship

that all of those rich people escaped Earth on and don't look up at the end of the movie. America is one of the only places on this Earth where you are celebrated and toasted with champagne for making a trillion dollars. It's like that's obscene. Like that's disgusting. I'm glad you mentioned like the America versus the rest of the world

because it's also the culture around iPhones is a very, very American thing. Like a lot of the rest of the world has androids and different kinds. And everyone uses WhatsApp, which is unfortunately owned by Facebook now, so RIP. But it is an American ideology of you're better if you have an iPhone.

And it just also goes to show how arbitrary it is because one of the hottest people I ever had sex with in Italy was indeed an Android user. Yeah, I feel like maybe they're even better in bed because they have to like prove something. Yeah, yeah, hot take. People with iPhones suck in bed. That's me, baby.

Pillow princess. That is Apple. It's literally a pillow princess. It is. It's a pillow fucking princess. I mean, the image of the Apple alone might as well be like a cult symbol, right? It's the new crucifix, exactly.

I mean, if it's a cult, I guess that would be one I would join though. I'm on my 18th iPhone, even though they only got a 14 or whatever. I had a Blackberry once. In fact, I didn't want to go to the Apple thing. But the person that I was dating at the time, now my wife said, your texts are green, they need to be blue. And therefore, I was screwed. Now, Apple and my wife are joined at the hip and so am I.

Okay, Issa, out of the three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out. What do you think the cult of Apple falls into? I think that it is a solid watch your back as a company and as a person who buys the product. Because like I said, I mean, I would be fucking depressed if all my shit disappeared in the cloud. And so like I need to fucking watch my back and upload that shit to a hard drive.

I need to take my own advice. What do you think? I completely agree. I'm just like drowning in cognitive dissonance about the cult of Apple because like I so badly don't want to be imprisoned by this company. But I'm not going to be a martyr. So yeah, we got to start watching our back. And my version of that actually is when I, as you know, lost my AirPod case.

I bought, I bought a knockoff AirPod case. The AirPods are real, but the case was 15 bucks on Amazon, baby. Another cult. Another cult for another day. Well, send this episode to an Android user who needs to hear it. Or maybe you're listening on an Android. Send it to an Apple user who needs to hear it. Great point.

That is our show. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back with a new cult next week. But in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty. Sounds like a cult is created, hosted, and produced by Issa Medina and Amanda Montell. Our research and social media assistant is Noemi Griffin. Our theme music is by Casey Colb.

This episode was mixed by Adam Hart. Issa here. You can follow me on Instagram at Issa Medina, ISAA, M-E-D-I-N-A-A to check out tickets to all my live shows and tell me where I can perform. And Amanda here. I'm on Instagram at Amanda underscore Montell, and feel free to check out my books. Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, and Wordslet,

a feminist guide to taking back the English language. We also have a Patreon, and we would really appreciate your support there at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult. And if you like our show, feel free to leave us a rating on Spotify or Apple podcasts. And if you don't like our show, rate other podcasts the way you'd rate us. Well, what's your favorite species of apple?

I don't know. I do know there's like a pink lady one. Okay, pink lady. Yeah, you are a pink lady today. I am. I am wearing pink actually. I think those are like crunchy. My favorite apple flavors are your favorite apple flavor.

My favorite apple flavors. Growing up, it was Granny Smith because I love sour. A warhead, fuck me up. But nowadays in my old age, I think I do prefer a honeycrisp. Oh, I love a honeycrisp. I just don't have like the list in front of me, but if you mention those things.

Okay, so I would say a honeycrisp is a live your life. A pink lady is a watcher back. We're not. And a red delicious as I get the fuck out. No, Amanda, they're all apples. You look all of your life.