Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Bachelorette Parties (New!)

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

Matching satin robes. Bedazzled cowboy hats. A mysterious urgency to fly to Nashville and scream “Woooo!” from a pedal pub. This week, Amanda returns to one of the most glitter-drenched, mimosa-fueled cults in the modern social landscape: bachelorette parties, but this time, with Sociologist Beth Montemurro and journalist Annie Atherton to help us dissect how these pre-wedding rituals evolved from quaint luncheons to weekend-long rites of passage that often feel more obligatory than fun. Why do so many people feel spiritually compelled to wear matching t-shirts and cry in a hot tub? What does this highly curated “last hurrah” say about gender, capitalism, and the mythology of marriage itself? Grab your sashes and your emotional baggage—we’re diving deep into the psychological groupthink, identity performance, and pastel-colored chaos of this culty little tradition.  Listen to OVERTHINKING ABOUT WEDDINGS. Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube!Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles. Thank you to our sponsors! Go to https://LIQUIDIV.COM and get 20% off your first order with code CULT at checkout. Get your summer savings and shop premium wireless plans at https://MINTMOBILE.com/cult  Start earning points on rent you’re already paying by going to https://joinbilt.com/CULT Head to https://www.squarespace.com/CULT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code CULT Please consider donating to those affected by the Los Angeles Fires. Some organizations that Team SLAC are donating to are:  https://mutualaidla.org/ https://give.pasadenahumane.org/give/654134/#!/donation/checkout https://shorturl.at/SGW9w Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kulties! Wait, don't skip. I gotta tell you something. My book Kultish, which inspired this whole podcast, is finally coming out in paperback and I'm hosting two incredibly special live tour events to celebrate. The first is in LA on June 9th and is a Kultie live podcast book tour variety show featuring so many special guests including my co-host Reese, former guests Jamie Loftus, Raven Simone, and Miranda Pureman Mayday, plus drag and burlesque performances, and other transcendent surprises. And then I'm doing an event on June 13th in New York moderated by the cult-followed author

Coco Mellors. Check out AmandaVonPel.com slash events for info and tickets. I so hope you join us for these also special events. Culties, it is peak hydration season and to make sure that your body is ready for the summertime, you have got to get your hands on some Liquid IV. They've just launched an exhilarating new flavor, Arctic Raspberry, okay?

Plus, Liquid IV has sugar-free options powered by L.I.V. HydroScience for smart hydration. My favorite flavor is the sugar-free lemon lime. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. No matter what your summer brings, tear, pour, live more. Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first order

with code CULT at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code CULT at liquidiv.com. This podcast is brought to you off your first order with Code Cult at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with Code Cult at liquidiv.com. This podcast is brought to you by the one, the only Squarespace. Whether you're just starting out or managing a growing business,

Squarespace is here to help you make a beautiful website, engage with your audience, and sell absolutely anything from products to time to services. Sounds like a cult is famously a Squarespace website. Building a Squarespace website. Building a Squarespace website is super effortless thanks to several key features, including their design intelligence, which combines decades of industry leading design expertise with cutting edge AI technology. You can

also manage payments really easily on Squarespace. You can even fundraise on a Squarespace website, which I think is super cool. If you want to make a website, make it a freaking Squarespace website, okay? Check out squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, head to squarespace.com slash cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Hi, my name is Billie Jean. I'm calling from upstate New York. I'm currently planning

a bachelor party for my little sister. And the thing that is the cultiest about it to me is all these novelty dick shaped things like lollipops and candy and just everything is shaped like a dick. It's disgusting and uncalled for and a little homophobic. Anyway, that's the cultiest thing to me. I think the cultiest thing about bachelorette parties is that they exist at all. I think it's illustrating everyone's fundamental fear of being married and being trapped in a marriage.

This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern-day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montel, author of the books Cultish, Now Out in Paperback, and The Age of Magical Overthinking. Every week on this show, you're going to hear about a different group or guru that puts the cult in culture. From the cult of Amazon to the cult of purity rings, to try and answer the big question, this group sounds like a cult, but is it really? And if so, is it a live-your-life, a watch your back, or a get-the-fuck-out-level cult?

After all, the word cult, cult classic, cult followed, full-blown cult, it's up to interpretation. And I am just salivating as if I had a penis-shaped lollipop in my mouth. Sorry. To get into today's topic, the Cult of Bachelorette Parties, Part 2. This is such a juicy topic. It demanded a Part 2. There are so many ways to tackle the subject. It's so just sort of ripe for roasting. It's a topic that had been on the Sounds Like A Cult

spreadsheet for quite a while. I'm very excited to get back into it because one of my favorite episodes of the show of all time was our episode on the cult of weddings. I am recording this as a recently engaged person already navigating the scammery, dare I say, of the wedding market. Hello, Amanda from the future here. As I record this very sentence, I have now actually already had my bachelorette party and am somewhat ashamed or maybe not, I'm not sure, to say that in fact, I loved it. It was pretty unique,

I think, and super special to me. Am I a deep-died member of this cult now? Do stay tuned to the end of this episode for some personal reflections on that front. But before that, back to the episode. I just never tire of scrutinizing and poking fun at the capitalist conformist monstrosity that is the matrimony industry. But of course, the wedding itself is just the tip of this penis. Sorry, the penis is just such a prominent talisman in this cult today. So I'm gonna keep referencing it. I can't help myself. Anyway, the wedding itself is just the tip of the iceberg

of this cult. Wedding festivities have just exploded in culty extravagance. You've got your engagement soiree, your engagement photo shoot, you got your bridal shower, you got your boudoir shoot, you got your bacheloret. You got your boudoir shoot. You got your bachelorette party.

Your wedding brunch. It's wild. And it's gotten to the point where some people dream of their bachelorette party even more than they dream of their wedding itself. The second you decide you wanna get married, this whole industry descends upon you, coercing you to participate in all these rituals,

shelling out thousands and thousands of dollars. You feel so pressured. It's tough to take a second and resist to say, I don't know if I in my heart of hearts, when I'm my most authentically connected to myself and my partner and the reasons why I want to get married, I don't know if I want to demand that all my closest friends fly to Nashville and get a bunch of matching pink satin robes that all say hashtag same dick forever and get dry bar blowouts and throw our hair back for a single Instagram photo. And here's the thing, I don't want to be too roasty. I think when I say the cult of bachelorette parties, a lot of us understand naturally what I'm talking about. In a way, it's just an extension of

a lot of the cultish qualities that are present in sorority culture, almost like a parody of heterosexual, feminine rituals and aesthetics. In theory, I thought or assumed it was supposed to be kind of a fun, cheeky night to celebrate with your bestie gal pals, your sort of last hurrah before you commit yourself to life, which is in a way kind of sinister when you break it down. It's like no one's forcing anyone into anything and yet we're all like ha ha ha ha ha same dick forever it's so funny but then when you look at what it's become it's these elaborate weekends full of overspending and oversharing and over hashtagging that can even pit bridesmaids against each other like lifelong friends a really cultish power dynamic can be established, and as this sort of consumerist

culture of one-upping builds, the whole production turns into months of friendship tyranny as the bride or the maid of honor dictates how their friends are supposed to dress. They demand that they spend so much money and act like they're having the best time of their life. And for what? That's part of the question that this really begs. When did the whole monstrosity that is the cult of bachelorette parties begin? How did it evolve to the social media shit show that it is today? Who is really running this cult and how bad is it? Really? These are some of the questions I'm excited to dive deep into today in this cult of bachelorette parties, part two episode. I'm going to dive deep into today in this Cult of Bachelorette Parties, part two episode. I'm gonna do so with the help of a couple of experts.

One is a sociologist named Beth Montemurro. She's a distinguished professor of sociology at Penn State University. And she's the author of a book called Something Old, Something Bold, Bridal Showers and Bachelorette Parties, which explores the highly ritualized, costly traditions of these pre-wedding affairs.

And then a little bit later in the episode, we're going to talk to a journalist named Annie Midori-Atherton, who reports on lifestyle, culture, parenting, and more. She wrote a great piece for The Atlantic called Welcome to Wedding Sprawl, which talks about bachelorette parties in contemporary culture. First, I want wanna back up and give a couple of quick stats before we get into our sources today. I wanna hit you with some numbers. According to a survey from the wedding website, the knot in 2023, the average cost of bachelorette party

was $1,400, a $500 increase from 2019, pretty significant. And one in 10 brides spends over three grand for this party. In this piece, Welcome to the Wedding Sprawl, Midori Atherton noted that the modern American wedding monstrosity that we all recognize today, including the bachelorette party, didn't really get its start until the 80s.

In the 60s and 70s, simple receptions were fairly typical. These lavish affairs didn't really come into favor until the 80s, not only because of the economic boom of the time, but also because of the broadcast of Princess Diana's glamorous, widely viewed wedding ceremony. By the early 2000s, bachelorette parties were becoming a little more popular,

and with the advent of social media, it fucking exploded. From 2007 to 2017, the percentage of people who traveled out of state to attend a bachelor or bachelorette party, quadrupled. Now, as you've probably been able to tell by our coverage of this topic so far, it is like really easy to shit on bachelorette parties, but I wanna bring a sense of nuance to this topic

in this episode as much as possible. There are definitely gender and power dynamics to unpack here that inform our disdain of what bachelorette party culture has become. And I also wanna personally say, I love festivity. I love an excuse to celebrate a life milestone. I never envisioned myself as someone who would go through the whole wedding rigmarole. I really don't like the idea

of being pressured into something just because that's what you're supposed to do to appear successful, but I figured out a way to propose to him in a way that felt really special for us. It involved months of planning. It wasn't expensive, my proposal, but I did ask my friends to do a bit of free labor for me, which they were thrilled to do. Friends supporting friends. And I think festivity at its best is the thing that allows you to acknowledge the people in your life that really means something to you and to take a moment to create something special for them and for you. I like a certain amount of ritual. I like a certain amount of tradition. I just don't like when society makes you, especially as a woman,

feel like you need to do it or else you'll be a loser. Hi, Amanda from the future again. Now, if anyone is interested in hearing me really dig into a sort of sociological analysis of the quote unquote benevolent sexism of wedding culture, I do have an episode about that on my newer podcast, Magical Overthinkers, which I will link in our show notes. But back to looking at it through a culty lens. I don't like when a uniform is provided for you that you can't interrogate or subvert lest you be seen as a heretic.

And that's some of the stuff that I really want to call into question today. Why do we all know exactly what culty sorority girl asks instagram photo to call to mind when I say the cult of bachelorette parties. What has it become? Why has it become the thing that it's become? And is that even bad? What are the pros and cons?

What is the worst case scenario? This thing sounds like a cult, but is it really? And if so, is it a live your life, a watch your back, or a get the fuck out level cult? First, we're going to get some background. And for that, I'm glad to introduce you to our first guest, Professor Beth Montemurro. Thank you so much again for joining this episode of Sounds Like a Cult. I appreciate it more than I can say. Can you just start off by introducing yourself and your work? Sure. My name is Beth Monomuro. I am a professor of sociology at Penn State University, Abington. And most of my research focuses on gender and sexuality, as well as popular culture.

Oh, God. What a wonderful beat. Can you sort of talk through why you originally took an interest in critically analyzing bridal showers and bachelorette parties? Did you have like a personal connection to the subject matter? Sure. Yeah. So this was when I was in graduate school in the late nineties that I was at the age where I had friends getting married and family members getting married. And I really did not know that much about what happened at bachelorette parties at that time. I knew I had some familiarity with bridal showers having gotten to them as a kid. But then I started to hear about what people were doing on bachelorette parties. And I thought, wow, this is kind of crazy. It seemed like a type of hazing. And I thought, well, this would be really interesting to study. And it ended up being my dissertation. And so I started with some ideas about like,

I'm curious about what this means, especially the contrast between the two rituals of the bridal shower and the bachelorette party. And I turned it into a dissertation and then a book. There was a lot there. Oh my God. Bottomless well. We did an earlier episode on the cult of weddings, but without question, where modern matrimonial traditions are concerned, this blows my mind every time. The wedding is just one in this slew of events

that you're pressured to throw. It seems so excessive. So trying to understand how we got here, the history and the origins of this stuff. Can you talk about when and why prenuptial festivities first came into the picture at all? So just starting with Bridal Shores, because they have a longer history that's a longer documented history, there's evidence that it dates back to the 16th century. And that there's a legend, you know, a folk tale about this, which is that there

was a woman in a Dutch village who wanted to get married and she was in love with this miller but he was very poor and her father said you know I'm not going to let you marry this poor man he's never gonna be able to provide for you and so that what happened was her friends and other family all gathered together all the things that she might need to set up a household and so they showered her with gifts and then her father gave permission for them to get married. That's the tale that's kind of been passed around. I found that in multiple bridal shower planning guides, wedding planning guides, that same story kind of coming through about that being the origin. But of course, they've changed significantly over time

and that in the 20th century, they started among the upper class as a way of showing status by showing your affiliation with the bride, right? If you were close enough to the bride, you could give her a shower and you could show how much status you had by giving her particular gifts. And really, we still see origins of that today in looking at the different types of showers that people have. That makes a lot of sense. And it's funny too, the sort of like folk tale of it all, because I remember when we did our episode on weddings in general, it was really hard to find where certain very

culty traditions involving weddings came from. There was so much folklore involved. I remember there was this one story in particular where we shared that like the origin of the bridal bouquet allegedly began because like medieval brides never bathed and so the bouquet was supposed to be like a fragrant thing to mask her stench and that's obviously like not true. A medievalist got in touch with us and was like, eh, fact check. When it comes to these like hallowed love traditions in particular, like these intense social fixtures, there's like so much folklore. But the bachelorette party, let's focus on that because the bridal shower, it makes sense that

you would want to sort of support this woman in your community, align with her, show off a bit. But what about the bachelorette party? Because those are truly a monstrosity in my opinion. So the bachelorette party seems to have originated around the 1960s in the US anyway. And although there's evidence that the bachelor party dates back to ancient Rome, the bachelorette party is much newer as a ritual. The first published mention I found of bachelorette party, the term bachelorette party was in 1981. So really it's not that old of a ritual. And it seems like what happened,

I mean, think about the time period, the 1960s, 1970s. So the 1960s, it seems like women were doing things that were like a bachelorette party by having lingerie showers for their friends or taking their friend out for a night on the town, but that they were not called bachelorette party by having lingerie showers for their friends or taking their friend out for a night on the town, but that they were not called bachelorette parties. And until you have the name, you have no institutionalization. You don't know that anybody else is doing it. If you're describing something and you think, well, maybe I'm just, this is just what I'm doing with my friends.

But once you get that label, so the eighties, it starts to become branded and you start to think about, oh, this is what other people are doing. And then you start to find as we get into the 90s with the beginning of the internet, you start to have information that can be disseminated. Because think about before that, when you couldn't share what you're doing for bachelorette parties, you're not posting about it on social media, it's a very different experience than what it is in the 21st century. Yeah.

In a vacuum, you're only going to want so much extravagance, but then you see what people are doing online, you feel like, oh my God, I have to outdo it. So the bachelor party, did that come first? Yes. And what's the connection between the origins of those two events? There's some idea that going back to ancient Rome of these parties with a lot of excess and debauchery among men. And it being a ritual of initiation for men when they were getting married. But thinking about the way that we have thought about marriage for women and men in the 20th century,

it's not surprising that you don't see the bachelorette party until the latter part of the 20th century. Because marriage was always a status elevation for women. It was not seen as if they had something to give up. It wasn't as like it was a sacrifice in the way that it's been framed for men. So until you have that shift in that attitude that women are sacrificing something too, there's not a place or a reason or motivation for the bachelorette party. Right. It's like, oh, you're so lucky you've fulfilled your life purpose of finding a husband. What do you need to celebrate your last night for?

It's like your whole life up until this point has been worthless. So I'm wondering like based on your ethnographic research, can you highlight some of the most cultish bachelorette party rituals or dynamics that you came across? Sure, so again, just thinking about the context, like this is the late 90s and a lot has changed. But I think that the moment was really kind of important because it was really the beginning of when people were starting to have bachelor parties and beginning of their institutionalization.

So the things that were very common at that time, certainly alcohol, you know, the idea like the hazing, getting the bride drunk so that she can do things and embarrassing her. That was the first thing that was fascinating to me when I decided to study it. These are your best friends. Why is the purpose to embarrass her? Why is that the goal? Why is that fun for people? And I was very judgy about it until I interviewed people and kind of got their perspective on it. But that was one thing. Certainly the alcohol was really important, lowering inhibitions, but also priming the bride to do more things.

The second thing is absolutely the sexual element of it. That was a significant part of it, right? So that the idea of like this playful last night of freedom, none of the brides I interviewed or none of the bachelorette parties I attended, did the bride express any sincere regret about monogamy? But there was a lot of play about regretting monogamy. And so thinking about, again, using your idea of this being cultish, this is the ritual.

This is what we do. So really exaggerated phallic symbols like giant blow up penises people are carrying around, you know, like a veil covered with condoms, penis earrings, penis straws, penis water bottles, penis everything. And sometime in the last 10 years, there was like the theme last penis forever as a bachelorette party theme. And so again, none of the brides really expressed that they were going to miss their sexual freedom. None of them expressed that they were reluctant to get married for that reason, but there was that elaborate play acting as if they were. Ooh, maybe this is way off, but my surface level judgment of it is like women haven't

like fully embraced what getting married like truly, truly means in positive and negative ways for them. Because I think there still is this implication that if you're a married woman, you've succeeded at your gender, but we do have more liberties than we did in say the 60s and we want to have just as much fun as the boys. So now we're going to kind of like parody or parrot the patriarchy's template for a person who is getting cold feet or whatever, like maybe we'll have regret about making this sacrifice. So we're just kind of like freestyling based on what we've seen men do and say. Does that feel accurate?

Absolutely. I think that that's a great summation of it. And the last part of what you said is also really important is that in some ways it was mocking women's understanding of the bachelor party. And so if men are going to go see strippers, women are going to see strippers and, you know, decorate themselves with phalluses everywhere. That's a way of both saying, yes, I'm going to play with this idea of sexuality, but also saying I'm going to make fun of the fact that men really have done this for such a long time and are acting like it's this major sacrifice to get married. But I do agree with what you said about this idea

that it absolutely still validates the idea of marriage as being an important achievement for women. MUSIC Whether it's a family member, friend or furry companion joining your summer road trip, enjoy the peace of mind that comes with Volvo's legendary safety. During Volvo Discover Days, enjoy limited time savings as you make plans to cruise through Muscogee or down Toronto's bustling streets. From now until June 30th, lease a 2025 Volvo XC60 from 1.74% and save up to $4,000. Condition supply. Visit

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onboarding is very simple. You just get set up with a few quick clicks and start receiving payments right away. You can even fundraise on a Squarespace website, which I think is super cool. You can collect donations, send fundraising emails, organize all your donations in one single hub. If you wanna make a website,

make it a freaking Squarespace website, okay? Check out squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, head to squarespace.com slash colt to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain Hi, my name is Sarah I'm calling from Toronto to me the cultiest thing about a bachelorette party is that It's a bunch of people who pretend to like each other for a weekend all because they really really like one person. Other culty things about bachelorettes, like who is really the leader, right?

Like it's clearly like supposed to be about the bride, but there's someone else that's like handling all the shit and like doing all the bad stuff, but the bride gets to take all the credit. You invest an obscene amount of money into something that you're like, I don't really know if this is gonna go well, or if you even want to go, all because this is what I'm supposed to do, it feels like.

Hey culties, this is Chosie phoning do, it feels like. Hey, colties. This is Chelsea phoning in. And I'd like to say the coltiest thing about bachelorette parties is the mob slash hive mentality associated with quote unquote protecting the peace of the beloved cult leader, AKA the bride. Because when you think about it, bachelorette parties are just an amalgamation of different groups of friends through different time periods of your life. And if you're a really good cult leader, all your friends think that they know you the best.

So the funniest thing are the secret meetings or shady comments with everybody thinking that they know what's best for the bride to make sure that they protect her peace. I don't know, there's something culty about that. Okay, so did you ever come across someone who like kind of didn't even want to do the bachelorette party but felt coerced socially into doing it anyway and into conforming in a sort of culty way? Yeah, absolutely. There were brides who said, I didn't want to do this but my friends really pressured me into doing it anyway and into conforming in a sort of culty way. Yeah, absolutely. There were brides who said, I didn't want to do this, but my friends really

pressured me into doing it. And so it was the idea of like their friends thinking that it would be fun and that it's fun and it's important and that they bride would regret it. And the bride thinking, no, I won't. I wouldn't. But I'm going to go along with it because my friends really want to do it. And that's something that really is at the heart of both batchwap parties and bridal showers from what I gathered from my research is that it is really at the core about friendship. Both rituals are about celebrating these relationships. And so in some cases, it's really about respecting those friendships. Other cases, it may be that the friendships lead women to do things that they might not want to do because they feel like their friends

are trying to do something nice for them. In general, what historical societal factors would you say contribute to these prenuptial events morphing into the sort of like hyper-consumerist culty events that they can sometimes be now? The significance of social media is huge. But before that, right, before we get to really social media, reality television was really important. There were these shows in the 90s, the Learning Channel had a show called A Wedding Story, which was a reality show about these couples getting married. I think that shows like that, which really put this emphasis on weddings

and letting people start to have a window into what other people were doing, starts to contribute to that institutionalization. And it becomes not just about like, let's have a party and let's get married. But as you mentioned at the beginning of this, when we started talking, here's the buildup, right? Like it's like the pep rallies, all these

things are like pep rallies for the wedding. So we start to see in popular culture, examples of these different events and hear what other people are doing. In addition to that, you have thinking about again, like the origin of the bachelorette party, like there's things that may not seem that significant, but are like women's increased labor force participation, women's increased college education. All of those lead to kind of a shift in women's status and a shift in gender power dynamics in straight relationships. And so that kind of sows the seeds for thinking about weddings in a different way. What's happening with weddings and weddings becoming more lavish then spreads into the pre wedding events as well. So yes, we're gonna have an elaborate wedding, but let's

also have a bachelorette party weekend rather than just doing something for one day. Let's have multiple bridal showers. There was one woman I interviewed who had 12 bridal showers. Why? Exactly. So the reason is because she was in she was was from the South, her family was, you know, no, I don't want to say like an upper class family, but they were upper middle class family who had a lot of status. And so that her mom's friends all wanted to throw her a shower, and they all wanted to throw her their own shower. This is a great example of kind of those power dynamics of thinking about how it wasn't enough for them to all come to one shower or jointly host one. But I want to give them a lawn and garden shower.

I want to give them a stock, the pantry shower. I want to give them a stock, the bar shower. I couldn't even believe like 12 showers, 12 showers. Unfathomable. Well, and for the bride, I imagine for certain dispositions, it could do a number on your ego. Like you could be built up to feel like this really is the most important event of my entire life. And then when it's all over, I mean, you hear about post nuptial depression, my brother, he just got married and I feel like he stooped

into a depression after all of the festivities were over and he planned himself like an extremely extravagant 30th birthday afterwards because he just like couldn't handle the letdown of like not really attention but like and this is something cultish too. It's like it takes up all of your time every hour of every day is like dedicated to wedding festivities and pre wedding festivities and post wedding festivities. And then when it's all over, you're like, who even am I like what is my purpose now? That feels like it could be kind of damaging. I just have a couple more questions. From your observations, what do these prenuptial events seem to mean to the brides themselves?

Are there instances when they've been really transformational in a good way or traumatizing? What do they mean to the brides? So thinking to the brides that I spoke with, for most of them, they were transformative in a positive way in that it allowed them to see through this ritual celebration, how much their friends cared about them and really feel those relationships cemented. Women talked about women traveling from different states, about being post-college and a lot of people going in different directions and how much it meant to them that their friends would come back or come to them and that everybody

would give up the time to celebrate their wedding or celebrate with them for their bridal showers or bachelorette parties. So certainly it was transformative in that way. Like we show up for each other in a lot of ways, right? But this is something where there's an expectation to do it and it's a formalized expectation to do it. And so that I think that it was an opportunity for women to really reflect on their friendships. What about for the guests? In some cases, it was transformative in a negative way for some of the guests and some people who were bridesmaids or planners, hostesses of showers, because the opposite, they felt a lack of appreciation,

a lack of gratitude on the part of the bride for either as I mentioned before, their financial status, or for the efforts that they went to. Like it was like some cases, some people, and I think what you mentioned about the ego being built up, they start to feel like they're really the center of attention. And why isn't everybody just doing everything they can? Why wouldn't you come to all 12 of my showers?" That was hurtful that some people talked about their relationships, their friendships really being changed and not being as close after the wedding because they felt like they saw a different side of a friend, of a bride during the wedding and shower planning.

Oh, that's terrible. Agreed. Certainly that was the minority, right? The more people said that they recognized during the wedding and shower planning. Oh, that's terrible. Yeah, agreed. And certainly that was the minority, right? The more people said that they recognized and appreciated their friends, but it wasn't just one person who said that. There were a handful of women who talked about that really being a pivotal moment in a friendship that led to it being over. And it is.

It's like that sense that you go along with what you're supposed to do as my bridesmaid, or I'm going to be disappointed in you, or I'm not, you know, if you don't do what you're supposed to do. And that idea like that there are these, you know, so many social expectations now, especially even more so now than at the time that I did my research shows how institutionalized this is shows how much people have an awareness of this is what a bride gets. This is what this means. This is how you're supposed to act. I mean, under any other circumstances, if your friend treated you this way, you'd be like,

what is wrong with you? Like go to therapy. But in the context of a bachelor party or bridal shower at a wedding, suddenly it's like totally allowed. That's nuts. Okay. So what is your kind of like overall judgment of bridal showers and bachelorette parties? Like, do you think they're good, bad, helpful, sinister, culty? Probably all of the above, honestly. Nothing is wholly good or wholly bad about bridal showers and bachelorette parties. I went into the

research thinking bachelorette parties were awful went into the research thinking bachelorette parties were awful and that people shouldn't do this to their friends. And I was certainly very judgmental about it. But after speaking with women and attending more showers than I would have were not doing research, I really appreciated how much they were an opportunity for women to reinforce their friendships

and for women to show care for one another. And I think that they're important, both bachelor parties and bridal showers, as ways of establishing bonds among women. We don't have as many gender segregated rituals, and I'm not saying gender segregated rituals are great, but I think it's good to have time for that. It's good to have an expectation for time just with certain groups of friends. So I think that they're good in that way. I've been waiting for somebody else to do research on this for 20 years, and I would love to know how much they have changed and

what's different. And my suspicion is that bridal showers are probably more fun than they were 20 years ago because of all the different creative ideas that people might have coming from Pinterest and social media showing about different things that people can do. But yeah, so I think that they're good. I think that the bad comes from the expectation to do more than people can afford to do and the pressure that it puts onto relationships, the strains that it puts on people, the financial strain or the feelings of not being good enough, if you can't do what's being expected of you.

Yeah, I think the long and the short of it, the lesson to take away from this, which is the lesson to take away from almost all of our episodes is like, don't let capitalism and patriarchy and social media ruin your fun. You can make it your own, and you can just make it like

a darling, wonderful bonding exercise. It doesn't have to be so culty. But actually your journey with starting out super judgmental and then coming around to thinking like, oh no, these are actually like good people trying to do a thing. And there are sometimes like really bad consequences, but I'm not coming away thinking that these are all like losers anymore. Like it sounds so much like my journey writing my book, which is about cult language. But I started out thinking like people who join cults are just silly gooses. And then I came away being like, you know what? No, we're like communal and mystical by nature. And they're like

really trying to do a thing that goes really wrong sometimes. Well, thank you so much for joining me for this discussion. Thank you for inviting me. And now after a quick break from our Cult Followed sponsors, we will hear from lifestyle and culture reporter Annie Atherton, author of the Atlantic piece, The Uncontrollable Rise of Wedding Sprawl, who can weigh in on a little bit more of the insidious contemporary culture of extended bachelorette weekends. All right y'all, this is a PSA for anyone who rents. If you haven't heard of BILT,

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That's mintmobile.com slash colt. Upfront payment of $45 for three month, five gigabyte plan required, equivalent to 15 bucks a month. New customer offer for first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra, see Mint Mobile for details. Something that has always rubbed me the wrong way is the phrase or the idea of celebrating the last penis forever.

And it's just so bizarre because we're like preparing to celebrate their marriage and their life together. And while that might be the case, I just think centering an entire weekend and celebration around the husband's wiener is so weird and uncomfortable and culty. Hello culties, it's Reese calling in and I think the cultiest thing about bachelorette parties is how much more financially motivated they are than bachelor parties. I feel like if you're a bro you can kind of just take your dude to the strip club

and like call it a day. You did your good friend duty, but if you're a bro, you can kind of just take your dude to the strip club and like call it a day. You did your good friend duty. But if you're a woman, you have to take your bestie on like an all expenses paid brand trip to the Bahamas for three days. And that's like the standard of good mate of ownership. Thank you so much for joining me. Could you please introduce yourself and your work to our listeners? Hello. Yeah. My name is Annie Atherton and I am a freelance journalist covering lifestyle, culture,

all kinds of different topics. And could you just go right ahead and tell us about your personal connection to slash formal experience with bachelorette parties. I am 36. Being 36, I feel like I had a really big wave of weddings in my life, including my own, in the last five, six years. And it was just all of a sudden back to back. Everyone I knew their entire summer, like spring to fall really,

was weddings and wedding adjacent events. So partially it was my own life. All of a sudden that was my entire travel. I just like realized that was happening even if it was like local travel. That's culty already now that I think about it. Like a good five years of your life are colonized by not just weddings, but all the extra wedding festivities. You like can't live your normal individualized private life and go on the vacations that you want to go on because you're obligated to all of these wedding events.

It's true. And then I finally started having to decline them after we had our first child. I think there were three in a row and I felt bad, but that was the first time where I was like, no, I cannot do these. That's a good excuse to have kids, to decline wedding invitations. It's true. And so many of these things are so fun, but it is just kind of extreme. And then, you know, I would hear about other people in my life having even more. And, you know, I think we're always comparing ourselves to others to get a sense of like, is it us?

Is it our culture? Like, am I weird? Are they weird? And some of my friends who have even more traditional social circles were really involved in their sororities or had a lot of friends have big bridal parties. People were doing way crazier things than I was. And so I was like, oh, my friends are so low key compared to this. And then you read about in the news, I know I just saw something, it's made a big splash on TikTok or something. Some woman from Fort Worth, Texas, some socialite had an almost $60 million wedding or something. It's made like a big splash on TikTok or something. Some woman from Fort Worth, Texas, some like socialite had like almost $60 million wedding or something. It was crazy. She

had like three separate bachelorette parties. One was like Marie Antoinette themed. I mean, it sounds lit, but like Jesus Christ. I mean, we always talk on the show about how like when a group becomes your entire personality, your life purpose, et cetera, your aesthetic, everything, it's worth examining. Like, babe, you are in a cult. Yeah, kind of. And I know that you're like big on language and the way that people talk about weddings in general is so funny because I've literally heard people say, well, my cousin, she's not working right now because she's in between jobs. So she's just planning a wedding. Like that was like

this woman's job for a while or like, yeah, I think I'm going to have to, you know, scale back at work because of this wedding or like crazy. Like all that is to say, it's all just so so normalized that what feels like a little bit insane to me is just like very low key in the scheme of things. But I think that's what inspired me to write this article about it for the Atlantic earlier this year. My editor was interested in the topic as well because it's like, how did we get to this place where this is just so normal and having a one day party for a bachelorette is considered like extremely low key, very casual. Whereas meanwhile, like I talked to my mom about this because they had none of it. They didn't nothing like this, you know,

it was like you married in the middle of the day at a church in the social hall, the same hall that people gathered at like after service, you know, a lot of the time reception with a bowl of punch. And then bachelorette parties were completely non-existent until sort of trickling up through like the 70s, 80s, 90s. But that history was actually kind of fascinating to me to dig into. And there are people like who actually studied the sociology and the history around it. As someone who's taken a more recent look

at the cult of bachelorette parties and it's like current day iteration, when I say the cult of bachelorette parties and its like current day iteration. When I say the cult of bachelorette parties, like what rituals and behaviors come to mind for you? When you talk about the rituals, I think it's almost taken for granted that you have things like matching attire theme for like the whole weekend, if not multiple themes, where the attire comes into play. I think it's this idea of getting a lockstep with everyone that is taken for granted that has a coldish element to it. And obviously not every person's voucher has this huge variation, but it's kind of

just an expected norm that you do what everyone else is doing from like soup to nuts. Like from the moment you get the email and start filling things in and signing up for things and splitting everything evenly and then going to what you're doing on the event to the end. It's like the expectation is that everybody is in line. It's like rank and file. That's a unique situation in adult life. Like there's really not any other travel context like that. If you traveled with other adult friends, not in the context of a Boucherette party or something, I'd be like, okay, some people are going to do this.

Some people are going to do that. It's like a mini study abroad. It's very ruptured. Completely. Yes, you're absolutely right. There's something militant about it, tyrannical even. Yeah, kind of militant. The first red flags I'm hearing are like,

pressure and conformity, pressure and conformity. It's like, if you were to see a group of 12 women all in matching white robes and flower crowns, you'd be like, oh, that looks like a cult. But suddenly when you see a group of 12 women in like, hashtag same dick forever in flower crowns now It's like an adorable cultural custom. How is that? Okay For sure. I will say many many years ago in high school. I was on my high school cheerleading team

It was very very reminiscent of a lot of the things that people do and like boucher at parties And then I was also in a sorority for a couple years. So all of this stuff isn't actually that weird to me. It feels more like a weird throwback to my like earlier use activities. I've never thought about it that way. We're like so many culty behaviors like these conformist rituals and lavish expenditures of money for things that don't really

matter are totally accepted and normal when you're a child. But then all of a sudden when you do them as an adult, it seems culty. And I'm also thinking of like Disney adults as an example. You know, I think at a certain point you're like longing for the cohesion and the structure of your childhood when you're in your thirties and you're like, ah, I'm responsible for so much. I just want to have a plan. I just want to fall in line. I just want someone to tell me what to do. I just want to feel connected to my friends. And that's the sort of like maybe optimistic justification for what we're seeing with some culty bachelorette party

behaviors. So I would love to hear a little bit more about some of those surprising discoveries that you made while writing your article, Welcome to the Wedding Sprawl. Yeah, I think one of the things was fascinating to me to have a lot of my anecdotal observations confirmed about how on average people's bachelorette parties are like three days now. Like that's an actual survey, you know, granted any survey take it with a grain of salt. But if you look at these, all these companies like Brides and WeddingWire, they do these annual surveys where they look at what are norms. And they also track over the years and even in the past like 10 years, like not a very big span of time, there's just this expansion of how

long these events are. These are themselves auxiliary events, you might call them. You know, like we're not even at the wedding, not even close. So I think that was one fascinating finding that that's just so normal. In a way it makes me feel like, I mean, I'm such a wedding hater. Like I can't deal with the sort of like conveyor belt that the industry immediately puts you on as soon as you get engaged or decide you want to get married, whatever. But in a way, now I'm kind of suspicious that the bachelorette party might even be cultier because with a wedding, it's like there is a sort

of history and tradition there. Like not every ritual is for something objectively. Like there's a lot of arbitrary nonsense going on with the wedding without question. But at the end of a wedding ceremony, there is a marriage. There is a purpose. But with bachelorette parties, it's such the Wild West. It's such a new sort of like purposeless, aimless phenomenon in a way that creates the conditions for an even cultier sequence of events. I would say to be generous. I think that is true. I also think adult women don't feel that they have a justified enough reason to get together just them. And maybe it goes back to that nostalgia for the cheer team or the sorority type of thing, but it also speaks to kind of the power of patriarchy

that persists and sort of a hypocrisy because you could theoretically do this at any time. That's always my question. It's like, just throw a party anytime, but there's not the same kind of permission structure. Yeah, and so I think that is the part that I grapple with a lot because I think the spirit of a lot of these events

is great and people have a good time. And like, I've had a great time celebrating some of my friends and meeting their friends in ways that I would not have. But I think the premise being that you're getting with this man forever. It just feels, it's just weird. It's like, it's really hard.

It's weird. You're like, put your finger on, you're like, why, wait, but what does this mean for us? Like what? There's a lot of sort of like, just your finger on, you're like, wait, but what does this mean for us? There's a lot of sort of like just suspending your disbelief or like allowing your critical thinking to just go on vacation for three days with the bachelor. If you think too hard about it, you suddenly realize like maybe this is all perpetuating something bad, but it like feels good.

So we do it. Right. But here's the thing is that I understand I have sympathy and empathy for individual people having them because they're not gonna be able to do this at any other time in a context where their friends will pay for it. I had a one night thing and I kind of regret

not having a weekend thing because I'm like, there's no other context where people are gonna randomly pay for me to do shit for three days. That's just not gonna happen. Contemporary American life is like so fucking extreme. We're like, I'm so overworked. I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so fucking busy.

I don't feel taken care of in my everyday life. Here's like the one opportunity for everybody to just treat me like I'm made of gold. Why I have to fucking seize it, you know? Like that's what I'm hearing. Yeah, and it's also very like, I paid for yours, you're gonna pay for mine. Like I think there's very sense of like,

what goes around comes around. And again, on a generous day, you'd say like, oh, well, these people were so kind to me. I'm gonna do this for them, vice versa. But you could also look at it as like, dude, I shelled out like $1,000. I'm gonna have my weekend when it comes. There's not another time when they can do this.

And so it's like, I almost like, how can you blame somebody for wanting to get all their friends together, not only will people not pay for it in any of their contacts, but they might not even do it. Like they might not make the time. And that's the other kind of sad thing. I think like your girlfriends just might not, they're going to be like, Oh, that's like Joey's work conference weekend.

We can't change their lives for other reasons. And I guess now that I think having kids is a big life shift that while a lot of people aren't doing now, it still does kind of like end the party train for a lot of people. And that's an assumption after marriage. Although again, not true for many people who have kids before or out of wedlock. That is like what sounds like an ancient term. But so there is kind of a general sense that you're like not going to have the flexibility and kids do make like life a lot harder. Like it is harder for me to do anyone's thing now, even just having one. So I guess that is part of it, but it's also like, they're

just not going to make the time. I know people who've made it happen after they had kids to go to someone's bachelorette, but would they have done that for just that person's weekend that they wanted to see you? Maybe not. So it is the only way. It's just a cycle. It's a reproducing cycle with the absence of another kind of value system. It's just like women's way. And to be fair, men have these too, and they're also lavish. It's people's way of hanging out with their friends, I guess, and trying to honor friendships without really cracking that like patriarchal structure hardly at all. That's such a good way of putting it. So let's talk about social media's impact on this cult. So you mentioned in your article

that among Gen Z folks pulled by the knot, 83% said that photo and video were the most important elements of a wedding day. And I have to assume that would maybe even be more the case for a bachelorette party, which again has no inherent meaning. I also read a 2019 piece in the New York Times by a reporter named Rhiannon Picton James titled Go Broke or Go Home Bachelorette Parties that said, and I quote, the pressure to afford lavish nights out and trips away is exacerbated by the need for everything to be Instagrammable. Gone are the days when a night out on the town, complete with strippers and penis straws stuck in a cocktail bowl will suffice.

This reporter told a story about how her friend's bachelorette party consisted of, and there's a certain tax bracket being described in the story that I don't relate to, but her friend's bachelorette party consisted of a long weekend in Spain with VIP yacht trips, exclusive booths and glamorous nightclubs, a luxury villa and afternoon teas at high-end restaurants.

The extravagance was insane. It felt like a PR event. And speaking of PR, the article also went on to comment on wedding hashtags, like the bachelorette party's wifi password might even make reference to the bride or the couple. Everything is a branding exercise. So considering that, do you think social media has made bachelorette parties cultier? And

can you think of any specific examples from your reporting illustrating how? Yeah, no question. I can't really even imagine bachelorette culture as it exists without social media. I don't think it would occur to anyone to do the things that they do on them without seeing them broadcast. But then similarly, the impulse to share is obviously strong. So I talked to a wedding planner. So first off, hiring planners to be part of the bachelorette process. That was something that blew my mind. Apparently people hire planners, like hiring vendors for the bachelorette party is just another level. And the planners are telling me that

there's a much higher demand for personalization. That's where weddings is too, obviously, but I think that goes with the sharing because it's like everything is customized. Your name or the name of the weekend, whatever, emblazoned on the cake, on the cupcakes, on the little purses, on whatever, anything you have. I think that's a huge part of it. Again, really familiar to me when I reach back to my cheer days, I think it also turns itself to photos. Like I think that goes hand in hand because a customized thing, you're like, Oh, photo op. Pixar didn't happen. Okay. So let's talk about who is the cult leader in this equation.

In a sense, you could say that brides are the cult leaders in the cult of bachelorette parties. Here's an example. In that same New York Times piece, the reporter spoke about how she was asked to book two expensive nights at a hotel the night before her friend's wedding and the night of expressly so that the bride

could photograph all of her bridesmaids wearing just as you said, these personalized matching squad pajamas just for the sake of a perfectly filtered faux candid photo of them throwing their heads back laughing, which to the author, like didn't seem worth what the room would cost. But when she told the bride that, that she couldn't afford the extra night, she was uninvited from the bachelorette trip and kicked out of the bridal party. So that is undoubtedly cult leader-ish behavior. But what do you think to be generous and thank you for bringing me back down to earth whenever possible? What do you think is like psychologically going on with brides when they act this way toward

their friends? Well, like I said, I think that there's a strong sense of reciprocation. And I think it's very easy for a norm to be kind of spun whole cloth out of thin air. You know, there's so many examples of that, obviously, that I'm sure you've talked about in the past. It's Christmas time right now. So I'm obviously thinking about Santa, like all these things. Like we just kind of made them up. The diamond ring, all these things at one point were not a norm. And then they were a hard norm that if you didn't do them, you're missing out on something. And now these norms are created rapidly. It's like what wasn't a norm two years ago is now a norm. But if you did it, then you

feel a sense of being left out of something if you don't get it, if that makes sense. Completely. I mean, FOMO is a very underrated reason to join a cult. Like, we want to belong so badly, and the Bachelorette party has really weaponized FOMO. So then let's talk about the industry as cult leader. You mentioned, like, vendors and planners. Who do you think are, like, the true cult leader type players in the bachelorette party industry if we even can point to individual figures? Sure.

Is there a big penis straw? I think it's really hard to pinpoint because it's like, okay, there's publications like The Knot, Brides, Wedding Wire. They used to be bigger as glossy magazines. Now they're just websites. I actually don be bigger as like glossy magazines. Now they're just websites. Like I actually don't think it's them. I think they're part of it. It's now very mixed with the travel industry. You know, hotels themselves offering like group packages or whatever. But I don't, again, I don't think that they're like conniving.

I think it's so pervasive. It's really hard to pinpoint like a sinister actor behind the veil. I think it's just all of us. Yeah, I think it's one of those Modern-day cults so to speak where everyone involved is both in it and perpetuating it Yeah, definitely on some level. Is it like the patriarchy but then that's Yeah, but like who can we Can we charge and imprison for that? It's like a bigger issue, which makes it, in a way, less fun to talk about because there's no like head we can put on the chopping block. But it's a conversation that often comes up on this podcast. Like we think of cults as being

these organizations that have one singular charismatic leader, but a group can without a doubt be cultish and not have that figure. I mean, just look at QAnon, you know? It's often the maid of honor anyway, playing a way bigger role in the planning and execution of a badger out weekend. That person is much more the leader in a lot of cases.

The leader, but the first to suffer. Whenever the bride has a meltdown, that poor maid of honor is like sprouting gray hairs by the second. Okay, so I want to talk about the financial sacrifice aspect of this cult. According to this New York Times article,

a recent survey from Credit Karma found that about one in three millennials have gone into debt to attend a bachelor or bachelorette party. Among them, 36% were more than $500 in the red. Another survey found that 58% of bridesmaids and 61% of maids of honor felt pressured to spend money on bridal party related expenses and say the financial pressure strained their relationship

with the bride, that is 58%. For groomsmen, it was lower at 43%, but still significant. In your article, you mentioned a survey finding that 87% of couples delayed buying a home or paying off debt to pay for their wedding events and expected guests to shell out too. So my question is, what is the most lavish bachelorette party expense you personally have witnessed either in your reporting or in your life. And did that spending seem culty? Yeah, absolutely can be culty. I think in my life, I've heard more of this being other

friends experience than my own. But I think you mentioned earlier about rep party that requires you to go abroad. You're talking minimally a couple thousand dollars. That's wild. Maybe all your friends can thousand dollars. That's wild. Maybe all your friends can afford it. That's fine. But like, maybe that is that weird too. If your assumption is that all your friends can afford that is that maybe you should ask yourself about the socioeconomic diversity of your life and your social community. So I've never actually been to Nashville and I wouldn't say that this is like a particularly outrageous example.

It's more outrageous how normal it's considered like just a normal thing to go to Nashville and have a bachelorette weekend. But you're assuming flying in from another state, okay, off the bat, that's like $500 to $1000. And then staying someplace for days and having like the beer, pedal bike, renting tour buses, renting boats, like you mentioned, such a recipe for nausea and puking aside. Having meals, like hiring a private chef. Actually, somebody just told me about how they went to a bachelor weekend that had a private chef come to the Airbnb or whatever it was. And it was like $100 plus per person and it didn't include alcohol. You know what's nuts is like, I have vaguely heard through the grapevine

of events like this too. And oftentimes the people in attendance didn't even really have a net positive experience. Like they didn't even like really, really have fun. Or if they did have fun, it's only because like, everything went off without a hitch or like there wasn't some big disaster,

but it wasn't like a truly personalized experience. They just felt so much pressure to make this event for all their friends and also for themselves, like the most special thing ever. They kind of like lost the plot somewhere in the midst of all that. And it's also often kind of a random assortment of folks. And so it's really hit or miss.

You can have a great time. Everyone can mesh really well, but I've certainly heard of people being like, of a random assortment of folks. And so it's really hit or miss. You can have a great time. Everyone can mesh really well, but I've certainly heard of people being like, oh, that was, I need a vacation from that vacation because their coworker, their coworkers sister-in-law, like just kind of really people. And then like, Just like their friend group was like the bottom of a bag of Chex Mix party bold. It's just like, I did not want this. So the last cultie point I really wanna mention

is you sent me this very interesting boston.com article titled researchers warn bachelorette parties in Provincetown are destroying LGBTQ plus safe spaces. And it made me think about how bachelorette parties affect broader society. This article suggested that bachelorette parties are causing a sort of heterification of many queer spaces as more and more bridal events are venturing into drag shows and taking up space in what is otherwise a queer refuge.

The author suggested that while many of these women sort of like claim to be allies, I have so many gay friends, it's, and I quote, just after several drinks, many may grab the butt of a cute gay man or take selfies in front of the leather daddies as if they were exhibits in some queer zoo. I can't help but think, you know, traditional cults often take over or have an unwelcome presence in certain communities like the Rajneesh Parim, the wild, wild country cult taking over that community in Oregon. Would you say that there are any other potentially damaging ramifications that this new era of bachelorette party trends is having on broader society? Like, are they taking over?

Oh my God. What a fun question. Yeah, that article was interesting to me. And I mean, I hate to say it, but I've seen that many times, but it hit me when I was on a work trip in Austin and we went to some piano bar. And to be fair, I don't think that this particular space was like that alternative. I think that they had accepted what they were, which was a dueling piano bar that would attract about direct parties.

But there were three about direct parties in the same space. And I was just like, oh my gosh, if I lived in Austin and this was like my place that I just wanted to hang out, this would be insane. It's like an amusement park all of a sudden. Oh man. What I keep coming back to is just like the self centeredness that this quote unquote cult brings out in everyone. It's like, well, no, it's my fucking day. In fact, it's my fucking weekend. In fact, it's my fucking month. In fact, it's my fucking year because of my wedding and I don't care what spaces I colonize in the process. I don't care what spaces aren't mine that I must take over. I think there's probably a natural inclination for self-centeredness in each

of us that this hyper-capitalized social media laden hellscape that the wedding industry has become is unearthing. And I kind of hate that and don't know how to disrupt it. I mean, what's your advice if someone like wants to have like a joyous non-culti bachelorette festivity? How would you suggest going about that? Oh my gosh. I mean, like I said, I just had like an one night thing in our city. We like went out to a dinner theater and I don't know, I kind of regret not like my friends more. I've been to like great things that were really low key at like an Airbnb.

One of my friends, hopefully she doesn't mind me sharing this, but she's in a queer relationship. So she was kind of joking like, this is kind of funny to have something at all. But like people wanted to have something for her regardless, just because again, it's like, it's a norm. So people wanted to do this for her. So we were like jokingly calling it like a summit of female friendship. I love that. See, like the queering, even if it's ironic of these like ridiculously monstrous events is I think really important. I mean in queer relationships already you're having to like interrogate what are our roles, what is all this for? And so I can see that being like a less culty version. So yeah, queer your bachelorette parties when possible.

Yeah, but I think there are a few things. I actually do have some strong opinions on this. So one, I don't think we can understate the role of like extreme binge drinking in a lot of this. And when you talk about like ruining the queer space, I think it's because people are wasted. And like, I don't think, you know, a group of 60 year old women in their knitting club descending on Nashville or wherever to like go look at the Elvix exhibit would rub people the same way because they're like minding their own business.

So I think like being wasted in public is something to be avoided in any context. That's a huge target, but I don't think people would be as annoyed if people weren't just like out there like, whoa. And then having like really transparent information about the money stuff in the very beginning to one person's credit, I would say who organized a Bachelorette Party went to, there were like

options. Like you could go for just the daytime of this thing, or you could go for overnight. It seemed like it was okay to do both. And that would give people an out kind of who weren't trying to spend the full amount. It was like tears. So something like that, or if you can find ways to be like a little more sensitive to people's different financial situations,

just think about the fact that not everyone can drop that and how that might make them feel to not be able to. Or for that to just put a really big strain in their budget. Those are my big things. I love the idea of just like sending a gentle invitation to those listening to interrupt the cycle of escalation, it could be you. You could be the whistleblower.

Hi, my name is Ashley and I think the cultiest thing about bachelorette parties is when they have like themed outfits. Hey, my name is Elizabeth and I think that the cultiest thing about bachelorette parties is how if you can't afford to go, you're kind of cut off from the rest of the group, like you're looked down upon and that's just insane. I think it's just gotten out of control how expensive and time consuming and also energy consuming bachelorette parties have become to the point where friendships are kind of wrecked over it because some people can't make it due to family reasons or financial purposes.

And I feel like it's just totally backwards and unrealistic. So I actually wanted to play a little bit of a game. This is one of my favorite, sounds like a cult games. It's called culty or just an asshole. So I'm going to read some bachelorette party stories pulled from Reddit where people were confessing experiences that they had regarding bachelor parties. And you're gonna help me decide, was this person being culty or just an asshole?

The first story goes as follows. The bride, for the many years that I have known her, has never been able to keep her shots down. Naturally, she decides we should all do several rounds of fireball together. After each shot, she vomits. Instead of running to the bathroom, she yells front or backyard as she runs out of the

house. Passing my bathroom on the way, I begged her to just throw up in my bathroom instead. But she heard none of it. I think she threw up in my yard three or four different times. I was pretty salty about it. Kulti or just an asshole? Oh my God. I think you're just an asshole.

You're almost like a frat guy. Very odd behavior. Yeah, it's not culty because, I mean, while you're clearly in the cult of alcohol culture and probably need some help, you're not like trying to force other people into that behavior. I mean, there are casualties in the situation, but for sure, I agree. Just an asshole. Next story. I was invited to the bachelorette party of a college classmate. We weren't that close. But she also didn't have many friends, so I went to be nice. Subtle shade.

She didn't have many friends. It turned out to be a Mary Kay party. You know, the makeup MLM. And we spent the night sitting around the dining room table in front of tiny plastic mirrors being instructed on how to apply sample products to our faces and being pitched a sale. At least I had wine. Uh, double cult. Yeah. Double trouble cult.

I know, using the cult of your bachelorette party to try to recruit people to the cult of your pyramid scheme. Yeah. That's pretty bad. Next story. This one's a bit of a longer one, so settle in. A week ago, I had a bachelorette party. While most girls dream of their weddings, I dreamt about my bachelorette weekend for Thursday night to Sunday morning.

Me and my 25 closest girlfriends rented a house. From the start, it was a disaster. I had told my girls to get to the house early on Thursday so they could decorate and set up before I got there. Well, I got to the house at three and they weren't done decorating, so that bummed me out because I wanted that wow moment when I came in and saw the setup.

I felt robbed, but we still had a decent first night. Friday, I woke up everyone at 7 a.m. to make breakfast and get ready because we had a packed day. Vineyards, boat, lunch, happy hour drinks, then dinner and the clubs. I was getting shaded on all afternoon because people said they were being rushed from place to place and had to carry

changes of clothes all day. But we only had limited time in the city and I wanted to make the most of it. Saturday was worse. We had brunch at 9 a.m. and no one was awake in time so it only ended up being me and a few loyal bridesmaids when we got back to the house No one was even apologetic even though I was close to tears all day The last straw for me was later that night when we were going to dinner and nobody was wearing the matching shirts

We got for the weekend people wanted to wear their own stuff But that's not what we agreed on even though my maid of honor notified everyone at that point I said fuck it this weekend was ruined and locked myself in my room to cry. It was even worse when I came out a few hours later and half the girls had gone out anyway without me, AKA the actual bride. I ended up driving home early on Sunday

and left the house a mess for the girls to pick up because I was so upset. Cultie or just an asshole? It's actually tough. It's actually a tough call because at least, but then she wasn't really a successful cult leader, so. So true, so true. Maybe just a sad asshole.

I know, it's like she wanted to be a cult leader so badly. She's an aspiring cult leader, but sadly just an asshole. Oh, that story is like a perfect encapsulation of all the worst case scenarios that we've been talking about. Okay, one last story. This one's shorter. One of my friends is planning her wedding or rather she expects me to plan her engagement announcement party, bride made announcement, luncheon, bachelorette party, the wedding ceremony, reception. She also expects me to contribute financially while not even attending the wedding. And I quote, because my fiance used to have a crush on you and I don't want him to be tempted to run away with you. Can you imagine the embarrassment of being left for you?

Ha ha ha ha ha. Whoa. That's what. Colty or just an asshole? That's 100% Colty, I think. What do you think is Colty or just an asshole? That's 100% Colty, I think. What do you think is Colty about it? The expectation of this person doing everything for her, but also the weird creation of sexual taboos almost

between them. Yes, the control, the sort of unmitigated power that she's going for. Definitely Colty. Yeah, I'm not. I'm really concerned for that story in a way the most disturbing of them all. Okay, we've come to the point in the episode where I'm going to ask you a critical question. Annie, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out. Which cult category do you think the cult of bachelorette parties falls into?

I think it's a watch your back. It's a proceed with caution. And if you might have a good time, you might step in some landmines. Yeah, it's very clear what the cultish aspects of this situation are. There's financial sacrifice. It's a consumerist nightmare. There's so much pressure to one up things you've seen online. Tyrannical behaviors can really emerge.

But I'm trying to think of like, I guess there must be stories of people dying of alcohol poisoning, but that's not like specific to Bachelorette parties. And there are these one-off stories about friendships really like truly, truly being destroyed. But as far as cults go, shit gets a lot worse than that. You know, like the debt is bad. But yeah, I agree. It's all things considered. It's a watcher back.

Yeah, but I guess it depends. Sometimes it's a live your life because ultimately it's usually fine. And it's also so inherently temporary. So, so true. It is temporary. Yeah. No one's bachelorette party goes on for the rest of their entire life. Although that just an asshole story, their experience will be living rent free in her head for the rest of her life. Poor thing. Okay. I'm so glad we were able to unpack this. Thank you for being brave and exploring it with me. If folks want to keep up with you and your work, where can they find you? I write for all kinds of different places.

So just keep an eye out. Yeah, not really I give on X or really any social media platform. I prefer to just write my things and be on my way. Greetings. One last comment here from future Amanda. Just chiming in again over a year after this episode was

originally recorded post my bachelorette party. And you know, what I will say in brief before we wrap up today's episode was that it was fascinating to listen back to these recordings and how utterly disdainful I was of bachelorette parties. But I was especially shook re-listening to the part about queering the bachelorette party because I totally forgot that I said that, but that was exactly what mine was. My weekend was in my mom's hometown of New Orleans during Jazz Fest. I got together all my favorite gays and nays

and we had a gorgeous witchy weekend where friends who didn't previously know each other, but who I really thought would have amazing chemistry got to bond before the wedding itself. One special thing they did was put together this spellbook full of well wishes for Casey's and my marriage, which I thought was so sort of like counter to the last hurrah before the same dick forever kind of sentiments of the traditional bachelor party I guess. It was really fun and really sweet.

My best friend planned the whole thing and involved Casey in a really wonderful way. So, I don't know, that whole thing was a really hopeful experience that got me out of my head a bit. So, yeah, appreciate you tuning in to this whole ass fucking excavation of the Cult of Bachelorette parties. Well, that's our show. Thanks so much for listening. Stick around for a new cult next week, but in the meantime, stay culty.

But not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult was created by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore of The PodCabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montell. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps the show a lot.

And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book, Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and Wordslet, A Feminist's Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network, Studio 71. And be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds Like a Cult Pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult.

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