Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of BookTok

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

Although we do famously love/write/worship books over here at team SLAC, our adventure into this week’s MUCH-REQUESTED topic—a literary commune packed with fantastical, extremely online, culty drama—gave us MAJOR culture shock. Whether you’re a lifelong reader or your Hoovers are still in the mail, it’s safe to assume you’ve brushed paths with this week’s cult even without realizing it. Since its timely mid-pandemic inception, BookTok has taken the publishing industry by storm and has undoubtedly transformed the way young people buy, read, and obsess over books. Whether they’re creating a whole new subgenre (dark romantasy, anyone?), lining up in droves for the latest Rebecca Yarros release, or casting an entire movie adaption of their fav read, we have come to learn that the BookTok girlies are a force to be reckoned with. Here to help Amanda and Reese navigate the new literary landscape and determine exactly how culty that force can be are bonafide booktokkers Morgann Book and Ayman’s Books! Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube! Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles.  Thank you to our sponsors! Liquid I.V. when you go to https://LIQUIDIV.COM and use code CULT at checkout. Find exactly what you’re booking for on https://Booking.com, Booking.YEAH! Please consider donating to those affected by the Los Angeles Fires. Some organizations that Team SLAC are donating to are:  https://mutualaidla.org/ https://give.pasadenahumane.org/give/654134/#!/donation/checkout https://shorturl.at/SGW9w Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. When you guys had referenced Booktalk as a cult, I was like, not a cult. And then I like sat back and thought about it. And I was like, oh my God. When I first joined Booktalk, I was dog earing the pages. And apparently it's big no no on Booktalk. But they're your books! This is why it's a cult, guys. It's literally like the Hunger Games but for like all Weevil people. I mean I guess it's good for the publishing industry, the author, you know, making some good money but at

what cost, you know? This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montel, author of the books, Cultish and The Age of Magical Overthinking. And I'm Reese Oliver, Sounds Like a Cult's coordinator and today's co-host. Every week on this show, we discuss a different zeitgeisty group that puts the cult in culture. From Harry Potter heads to van lifers

to try and answer the big question, this group sounds like a cult, but is it really? And if so, which of our three cult categories does it fall into? A live-your-life, a watch-your-back, or a get-the-fuck-out? The point of this podcast is to scrutinize and poke a wee bit of fun at how fanaticism and belonging show up in everyday life, even in unexpected places, including one of the most seemingly innocent and wholesome pockets of all of our social media feeds, Book Talk. Yes, the side of the TikTok algorithm that is dedicated to discussing books.

The future of the overall church of TikTok hangs in the balance every single day. But as you will learn from today's episode, Book Talk Culture honestly extends far beyond the app. Yes, indeed. This episode of Sounds Like a Cult is brought to you by Liquid Ivy. One thing that I'm pretty sure absolutely everybody on this planet can benefit from is extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. All you gotta do is tear, pour, and enjoy. Now that I'm in my flirty thirties, I'm also trying to take much better care of my body,

and Liquid IV is amazing because it's powerfully hydrating, and they truly have so many flavors I really think you'll enjoy. White peach, rainbow sherbert, break the mold and own your ritual. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone.

Treat yourself to extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to liquidiv.com and use code CULT at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code CULT at liquidiv.com. This episode of Sounds Like a Cult is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking.yeah. Booking dot yeah.

If you're looking for a hotel or vacation rental, Booking.com has exactly what you're looking for. I'm actually planning a little trip to New York. There's an off-Broadway show I want to see. And I gotta tell you, when I'm in New York, hotels are the way to go. But it's tough, because some New York City hotels are not up to snuff. But Booking.com truly offers everything. If I'm looking for something bougie

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Booking.yeah. Now I feel like it's not that subversive of a statement at this point to claim that cults can emerge on TikTok. TikTok is of course a place where culty conflict and highly worshiped influencers and misinformation tend to thrive, but some listeners might be scratching their heads right now tuning into this episode thinking, how could that possibly apply to a subject as cozy and

quaint and innocuous as reading? And I will be honest, I had that question too. I certainly know from writing my book Cultish and from doing this show for so many years that a cult can spring up around literally anything from essential oils to Trader Joe's products. But as I am personally not in the cult of TikTok at all, when we started getting a ton of requests to cover the cult of book talk a few months ago, my first reaction was like, what does that even mean? I am vaguely aware that there are a lot of passionate fans of the Romanticie and YA genres on TikTok specifically. But beyond that, I am actually not at all sure what shape this cult takes, but I am excited and I shan't lie, a little afraid to learn more.

Reese, what's your TikTok user status these days? Honestly, most of my relationship with TikTok is trying to use it less. I really want to beat the system. So I've deleted the app. I only go on it online. I have dabbled a wee bit in Book Talk just because I feel like using TikTok for books feels constructive on its face, right? Like I'm using TikTok to engage

in a non-screen related hobby. There's like a few very niche, lit-fig Book Talk girlies that I enjoy, but they are very much the exemption and not the rule. Yeah, I wanna state upfront that I guess part of what intimidates me about TikTok is just that my impression of it as an outsider is that it is also fast-paced and reactive, and what I love about reading is that

it is so slow and it is an invitation to think a little bit more deliberatively and critically and TikTok invites the opposite. So that clash feels wrong. We've scrutinized a lot of different types of influencers who traffic in counterintuitive territory, like Instagram therapists and various religious influencers who use these platforms almost as a missionary site. And I don't know,

like I love that people are reading more. I've read about how Barnes and Noble is opening up dozens more locations because of book talk. It's like keeping this dinosaur industry that I care about so much and that my livelihood depends on as an author alive. And that's the positive side of what cult tactics can do. Right. Yes, they disrupt. They rally people around a collective mission. They provide something to do to feel less alone, you know. And I'm genuinely tickled that this cult energy has made its way to books. I know that book talk really put the romantic,

aka romance plus fantasy genre on the map I have never in my life heard people talk about books as fanatically as young women Talk about the work of authors like Sarah J. Mass and Rebecca Yaros and at the same time. I feel Skeptical that book talk is even really about reading Yeah again from an outsider's perspective, it feels very performative because it is literally like, look at me reading. I hadn't considered that. Like to me, I'm just like, oh, I'm afraid that people are talking shit about books that they might not even have engaged with that critically in order to like capture attention. But you're like, no, but people are taking a video of themselves reading.

They're like not even internalizing words. Yeah, it just feels to me like it's more what books look the prettiest in my bag this week? What do I wanna be seen reading in my photo down on my Instagram? And like, I might be zooming out a little bit from Book Talk, but it's hard not to zoom out because book talk has grown into something so much more than just a destination to bond over books.

As our listeners have pointed out, it has turned into something of a cult, complete with rituals, there's aesthetics, there's different sex based on genre, even thought control and power dynamics. To analyze this cult, we are going to talk to two completely different book talkers in two completely different conversations today who are at once leaders and followers of this cult. Ms. Morgan Book, yes, that is her name.

Yes, I am very jealous. And then be sure to stick around for our juicy culty analysis with Eamon of Eamon's Books. But for now, here's Morgan. Morgan, welcome to Sounds Like a Cult. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here and talking about books. Are we gonna be talking about books? I don't know, I'm so ignorant, but we'll get into that.

Before all, could you just introduce yourself to the culties and share a little bit about your relationship to the cult of Book Talk personally? Absolutely. Hi, guys. My name is Morgan Book. I'm plugging my last name in there because no one ever believes that it's actually Book.

I actually started with cake decorating content for a couple of years. And then I made the switch over to Book Talk in 2021, 2022 when Book Talk itself was like coming up. And ever since then, I've just been on the app just talking about literally everything related to books. Cake decorating. That might be the one thing that would get me on the platform. So for folks like Amanda who choose to live their life, sends TikTok entirely and who are unacquainted with Book Talk, how would you describe or explain

what it is as a whole? That's like asking a reader like to name their favorite book. It's hard to explain like what book talk is because it encompasses so much in a one sentence thing. It's like an online community of readers, but like going beyond that, it's recommendations, it's reading blogs, it's people sharing their love for books. And that's why I have so many books on my shelves because they just come and go so quickly. Wait, what is a reading vlog? A reading vlog is kind of like one of my favorite videos to watch from start to finish. The creator takes their audience to the bookstore to pick up the book and then kind of vlogs

the reading of the book. Okay. So it's almost like live tweeting the cliff notes of honestly, a court of those roses. It's pretty much like that. Like you kind of just like take short clips throughout reading the book. And as some like if I've already read the book, I love watching those videos because it's like complete spoilers and I can kind of see their reactions going through the book because I know what's coming. The audience will often know what's coming while the book talker, the creator is kind of just like living in the moment of reading the book and we all get to experience it again. Ah, okay. So to summarize so far, we have the online shopping sort of consumerist aspect of book

talk. That's like someone else has XYZ book, I need to get it too to be a part of this group, I need to keep up, I need to have that perfect book talk collection. And then you have the sort of communal aspect where through watching someone else's reading experience, you get to feel uncannily connected to them.

And this also confirms something that I find to be generally culty about the internet. I mean, this is a slightly cynical way of putting it, but I find that people don't always want to learn something new. They just want to be told something they already know in like a really beautiful way. Yeah, that's what Book Talk is because we see these books all the time. We don't want to be told to read them if we can see someone else experiencing the book sold. Who were you as a reader before Book Talk? And then how did the cult transform you? I ask myself the same question. It's not an addiction, but it is.

I can't go to the bookstore and buy a book if I have not seen that book on social media. Are you just not drawn to books otherwise? I think I understand. And I think it has to do with the cult aspect. BookTac is first and foremost a community. It's not a book recommendation service. It's a book connection community. And so if you were to read a book that is outside of that community,

it would give you nothing to talk to people about. It would give you no connective tissue. And that's very interesting. Everyone reads for different reasons. Some people read to learn, some people read to escape, some people read to connect. And like so far, that's what I'm understanding of book talk. Yeah, I totally agree with what you're saying about reading something outside of book talk is like kind of weird. But it also goes back to being a cult. Some people will come on this app and be like, I know you've never heard of this book before,

or this is not a book talk book, or I randomly started reading this be like, I know you've never heard of this book before or this is not a book talk book or I randomly started reading this one and I know you've never seen it before but you have to read it. That is how books will often come into book talk. Like I remember last year there was like a massive uptake in this book called Butcher and Blackbird by Brynn Weaver. No one had ever seen this book. The dark romance genre wasn't massive on Book Talk and a couple creators talked about this book very briefly and it blew up. I feel like that happens a lot more lately. A couple people talk about them, the book blows up and it's on like bestseller list now. That is one thing that I really, really value is that a book that has not been blessed by the publishing industry, that has not had a ton of resources from the marketing department or whatever poured into it

can enjoy a new life because of book talk. That is very cool and grassrootsy in a way that a cult should be at its best. Honestly, like I love reading books. I'm not saying I'm sick of book talk books, but I love when an indie author's book or like a debut novel gets picked up by the book talk algorithm and it just goes viral.

Okay, just to back up for a second, when you noted that dark romance hadn't really picked up on book talk yet, that really contextualized for me the timeline of book talk and how it has come into the public perception. We had never gotten any requests for this topic until a few months ago, and now it feels like literally every day someone is sliding in our Instagram DMs being like, We had never gotten any requests for this topic until a few months ago. And now it feels like literally every day someone is sliding in our Instagram DMs being like, Oh my God, Book Talk is such a cult. Please talk about the dark fantasy section of Book Talk, the all the dark romance. It's so crazy.

Why do you think that is? Where in that timeline was the shift from casual book community to like full blown cult? When you guys had referenced Book Talk as a cult, I was like not a cult. And then I like sat back and thought about it and I was like oh my god. You get a couple creators on there saying read this one book everyone does it. You will have some creators pull one quote the first line in a book and they're like go read this book and people will. Over the last like year or so this new term romantasy has been coined which I've never heard that word before a year ago,

and nor had I ever used that word, but it's been around for a while. Like, Akatar and Throne of Glass are books that have been around for six, seven years now and was always referred to as, like, a fantasy with a romance subplot. It's kind of a mouthful sometimes, and now whoever the heck came up with romantasy, everyone's like, love it, love it, love it, love it. And Akatar is not a word. It's so well known, but the series is called Accord of Thorns and Roses. So I think over the last year, this like, Romantic, dark romance fantasy has provided such a good escape from the real world,

and they're just fun books. Like the one I had mentioned before, Butcher and Blackbird, is about these two serial killers who fall in love. If that isn't just like pure silly escapism, but like written very well, I don't know what is. So I think books like that, that just provide this massive escape from the real world

and are just fun to read is what created this uptake in that genre. Escaping from the real world. I mean, if that's not a cult motive, I don't know what is. So I'm hearing Akatar, I'm hearing Throne of Glass. These are names that I heard thrown around the halls of my high school. Can you sort of give us, would you say top five key texts or like beginners required reading to join Book Talk? Yes. Number

one is A Court of Thorns and Roses. Number two is any Emily Henry book. My personal favorite is Funny Story, which is her most recent release. Number three, I would say Six of Crows by Leigh Bardugo. That is early book talk, popular young adult fantasy, found family, all of that. Four would be the Chestnut Springs series by Elsie Silver. This is like small town romance, cowboys, bull riding, stuff like that. That blew up on book talk also a couple years ago. And then number five, I would say probably the Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller. That's like the historical fiction, fantasy, romance, tearjerker book that everyone seems to be talking about.

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when you go to liquidiv.com and use code COLT at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code COLT at liquidiv.com. This episode of Sounds Like a Cult is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking.yeah. Calling my wayfaring culties, my culties who have travel coming up in their future. If you're looking for a hotel or vacation rental,

I'm telling you Booking.com has exactly what you're looking for. I'm actually planning a little trip to New York. There's an off-Broadway show I wanna see. And I gotta tell you, when I'm in New York, hotels are the way to go, if you're catching my drift. But it's tough, because some New York City hotels are not up to snuff.

But Booking.com truly offers everything. If I'm looking for something bougie or something thrifty or something right there in midtown near all the theaters, Booking.com makes it super easy to narrow down my search. And you can get super specific with it, like if you want to stay at a hotel that has a sauna or a pool. No matter who you are, Booking.com has the stay that is ridiculously right for you. It's perfect for finding vacation stays and hotels throughout the United States. So what are you waiting for?

Find exactly what you're booking for on Booking.com. Booking.yeah. If you are listening to and even enjoying this episode of the podcast and wanna go deeper, I have a book recommendation for you. This is your host Amanda, by the way, and the book is called The Age of Magical Overthinking, and I wrote it. I poured my heart into this book, and I really think you might like it. It's about delusion and obsession in the information age and how the ways in which our minds naturally work

are clashing with our current culture. Every chapter explores some confounding irrationality from contemporary society, including extreme cycles of celebrity worship and dethronement, mass embrace of Instagram manifestation gurus during times of crisis, and why our bodies sometimes enter literal fight or flight in response to something as objectively non-threatening as a curt email from a co-worker. The book blends social science with pop culture analysis and personal stories. And if you prefer audiobooks, I recorded mine myself, so it's kind of like an extension of the podcast. Again, the book is called The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and it's available wherever books are sold. Your local indie bookstore, bookshop.org, Barnes and Noble,

or even that one massive online book retailer run by a call leader, you know the one. So if you enjoy this podcast, I really hope you'll consider checking out the book. So obviously TikTok is an algorithm-based platform more than any other social media, and that can lead you to believe that your specific algorithm is the whole world.

And that can kind of psychologically isolate a person a tiny bit, you know? Extremely so. Because I see your passion and how badly you want us to join you. And I imagine some of that must come from this experience where you're like, what do you mean you're not on Book Talk? Because if you're on TikTok and that is your algorithms and that must feel like the whole entire world. And if someone's not on it, then they don't exist. But I am interested in how this community organizes itself

because it is algorithm based. It is on our phones, disembodied. Maybe there are Book Talk conventions, I'm not sure. But I was wondering, could you explain, is book talk a sort of diverse cult of many denominations? How is it organized, this cult? Okay, first of all, we do have book conventions. I have never gone to Hawaii.

We don't have many in Canada, so they're all in the US. So I haven't made the trip yet. Organization-wise, I would say yes, there are different pockets of book talkers. I would say the main hub is the fantasy, romantic, romance genres. I feel like that is what book talk is at its core. When you go to Indigo, when you go to Barnes and Noble, you see all the romance. Those are what holds us together, I would say. There is little pockets of thriller booktalkers,

which I'm like slowly trying to like dip my toes into them and figure out nothing compares to a dark thriller. They freak me out sometimes. I would say it goes by genre and then it also somewhat goes by age. I would say like most book talkers are in their twenties and thirties and then anything beyond that. Like my mom will show me these book talkers that she loves and I was like never seen them before. So you're so right in saying that we have different algorithms for different books. It is fascinating to me because it is just like so different from the way that I read and so, so passionate. I don't want to suggest that like it's the wrong way to enjoy reading or books or share.

Exactly. Like when a community provides a sort of new, fringy way of doing something old, just like this, that might be culty and it might disturb some people, sure. But I wanna clarify that I don't think that necessarily makes something bad. Ah, yes. But I guess I do wanna keep kind of prodding to understand what the cultivation of book talk says about what those who participate in it are seeking.

If that makes sense. So like has book talk gotten culture because people are looking for a cure for their loneliness. Is it a bid for identity? Like, what do you think, Morgan? Yeah, I would say the uptake in book talk comes from inputting personality into book recommendations. Like you mentioned the New York Times list. I've never looked at that list a day in my life. I'm not looking at any other books on that list because it doesn't often mean anything to me or I don't want to speak for all readers, but I don't really know anyone who's checking up in New York Times lists anymore. Their book recommendations and what we read comes directly from book talks because

you're getting people's real opinions on these books which is why I think sometimes publishers social medias don't do well because they're saying read all of these books whereas book talkers and creators will tell you which books to read and why and which ones not to read because they didn't like them and if you can find a creator where your reading tastes directly align you'll read every book that they put out. Oh my god if I could find a book talker who's reading tastes directly aligned with mine, like I would be down.

I just, I'm starting to feel like that's not a thing. I'll find you one. That's what I was telling Morgan when you stepped out of the room, the corner of TikTok that I was on that most resembled book talk when I was on it was somewhat of like a lit, ficky side of book talk that I feel like it's still the same ideas

of people connecting over books and like sharing these recommendations. I don't know. I mean, it's just there's something about the conformist hype machine surrounding something that I cherish. And let's be frank, like as an author, I'm just like afraid of it. So the fact that there is like so much energy and so many strong opinions and that a book could be uplifted or disgraced so quickly within like a 30 second video, it makes me nervous. It makes me feel nervous. It is rough out there for you being an author.

I actually don't blame you for not being on TikTok because it's brutal. If I don't like a book, I'm not going to post about it. But some people throw these books into the mud on Book Talk. I feel bad because it's not even often they're like bashing the writer's talents. It's just like they didn't like a character or they didn't like a story or something. I read books all the time that I don't care for and I just put them to the side, for and I just put them to the side. I DNF them as they say in this call. I DNF them. That means did not finish and I forget about them and I don't feel the need to express my opinion about them. But I guess this connects to our next question. I'm a little skeptical of who the leaders of book talk might be. Who are these people in your opinion? What are their motivations?

Do they really read every book that they review? Good question. Literally like, if they can pack a punch with their video and with their content and what they're saying about the book, they'll probably rise to the top. Like if they're showing a lot of emotion in what they're reading and they're diversifying their content in the sense that they're not just doing book recommendations, they're doing everything. They're reading you one

quote in the middle of the book, they're doing a reading vlog, they're taking you to the bookstore, they're showing any and everything they can about a book and they're expressing true, genuine emotion. I find that on TikTok these days it's very easy to spot an ad, which is kind of a gray area when it comes to books, because you're like, are you being paid to talk about liking this book or did you actually like it? So you can fish through the hashtags. If there's like a hashtag partner, like you kind of know sometimes and you find the genuine creators who you know, if they've talked about this author before and now they're promoting

a new book, you're like, okay, they actually probably liked it. But if they've never talked about this genre before, like you can kind of poke holes into what people are being genuine with or not. OK, we made this comparison in a recent episode about the cult of Harry Potter. But it's like, what is Christianity other than just like a really, really, really old book club? Right. It's just like people are still talking about the Bible. Holy shit.

And in that same way, book talk feels like a religion. It's just a lot of people talking very passionately about books, but famously, a lot of followers of Christianity don't even read the Bible or scrutinize it that carefully. And maybe this is my bias, by the way, like as I said in the beginning, I'm telling you like, I fear it and I honor it like the ocean. Like I don't wanna go near it, but I'm glad it's there.

Yeah, you can admire it from the distance. That's totally fine. I do, but then at the same time, I'm a little like, oh, I don't know. Do you think that there are ever people who just wanna be famous book talkers for reasons other than the love of books? Maybe, but that takes a lot of effort to like know what these

books are about and talk about them. I feel like you have to read them. Reese, what do you think? You've tried it up close to this, but what do you think? I don't know. I mean, I think a lot of people find engaging with the book in a communal sense more attractive than engaging with the literature, which is kind of what you were saying earlier. And to that end, I think sure, I could totally see someone liking a book for like, how well

can I cosplay its characters? What TikTok sounds align with what tropes go on in these books? I think the tropification of literature is also a huge contributor to what makes Booktalk feel inauthentic at times to me, because it turns into people reading books in order to categorize them and kind of manually sort them into people reading books in order to categorize them and kind of manually sort them into an algorithm as opposed to really get anything from the book itself. So I wouldn't say that I don't think people are reading them.

I think people are looking at the words and taking them in, but I don't know if people are reading. Okay. Okay. That's helpful. And Morgan, feel free to disagree. The whole point of this podcast is to like over dramatize things. Like we're half kidding. Truly. My most genuine thought is just I love that people are reading.

People have been warning me that the publishing industry and books are like on death's door. And if this exists and this is keeping books alive, huge sleigh love. But it is a sign of the times that book talk is kind of just like another one of these modern day cults that is at times perhaps less about the thing itself and more about what the symbol of that thing says about you and how it can make you feel less alone in the world. And that doesn't necessarily have to be bad.

It's just not the reason why I engage with books. I see both sides. And as you guys were talking about reading just to be famous, it's more what I see that ruffles Book Talk's feathers is already famous people picking up a book. It's a very polarizing topic in the sense that half the comments are like, welcome to Book Talk, read this and read this and read this. And the other people not necessarily commenting, but like stitching. And they're like, this person is trying to be a book talker. This person is like not a reader. They're just

picking up. So Akatara also very polarizing. Some people loved it. Some people hated it. She's a whole cult leader in her own right. So I've heard. You guys aren't going to read these books. Can I spoil a little something? Yeah. Okay, so she's got Akatar, she's got Thorn of Glass, and she's got Crescent City. The author Sarah J. Maas, that is. Yes. I think with the rise of the popularity of Akatar, she was like, okay, how can I do something else with this? So she created a multiverse in Crescent City, which is her newest series, to allow Akatar characters to come into that one. Because the people who have just read Akatar

will go pick up Crescent City, just because they know they can have their favorite characters again in that series. Because we haven't gotten a new book. This woman could start Scientology 2.0 easily. And I don't know how I dodged so many spoilers, but I knew something was coming at the end of book two in the Crescent City series.

And I got to the end and I was like, yes, I'm shocked, but I'm also like, what a brilliant marketing move to do that. So then people can go read these other books. What are some rituals that book talkers engage in that someone who reads and loves books, but is not involved with book talk would never even know about. Are there things that Book Talkers say or do as a result of the actual features of the app that may affect your reading experience or stuff like that? Okay, really good question. I would say the first thing that comes to mind

is some creators will go live just to read. Not a single word is said on the live, but they probably put their phone and they read and it kind of creates this like virtual book club of like some people reading the same book and other people reading different books. I've never done it myself, but I have joined other people's just to like check it out and see what they're doing. Things like that are directly caused because of the app though. I would say little things like when I first joined Book Talk, I was dog-earing the pages.

And apparently there's a big no-no on Book Talk. Okay, why? Oh, because it ruins the book apparently. So have I dog-eared a page since? No. But they're your books. This is why it's a cult, guys. This is why it's a cult.

Don't let the internet tell you what to do with your books. No, I'm sad. It's so bad. Sometimes I do it just to mess with them a little bit, just to rebel. Also, because I know people will comment about it. People comment about something they hate brings up the engagement, obviously. Here we go. Descending for engagement.

That's culty. People just like things a certain way. You're not allowed to hold a book like this. You're not allowed to break the spine. You can't dog your pages. This is like not actual rules, but these are things that I've seen on Book Talk where people were like, no, not allowed.

Well, that's what a rule is in a cult. It's an unspoken. Oh my God, oh my God. And I wonder about your opinion on this Morgan. Like I love books so much, but when I read a book and I love it, that feels like a very precious private thing. And when another person loves that thing,

it's cool at first. And then I almost feel like protective of it because I don't even wanna know what they think about the book because I don't want it to interfere with my experience, right? And I wonder if what you were talking about before, like sort of doing these like edge lordy things on book

talk for engagement purposes. Do you think that the very nature of trying to capture people's attention with these various tactics on book talk has made people more fanatical and culty and like opinionated and ritualistic, et cetera, about their reading habits in general, people who use book talk that is. I would say so, yes. I would say when it comes to comments and opinions though, people are still way meaner on Instagram and Facebook.

Instagram is just more hatred towards, even authors and stuff. I've talked to so many authors where they're like, I can't even look at my comments, can't look at my DMs, nothing. more hatred towards like even authors and stuff. Like I've talked to so many authors where they're like, I can't even look at my comments, can't look at my DMs, like nothing. So I would say in like more of the book talk sense, I think people are a little bit nicer

when it comes to their thoughts and opinions, but I think it ultimately depends on like what book they're talking about. Morgan, thank you so much for giving us the lowdown about book talk. Now that our American listeners can once again find you on TikTok, at what handle can they do so and where else can they find you?

My handle is at Morgan Book everywhere. It's Morgan with 2N on everything. Incredible. The housing crisis in the GTA has reached a critical point, with more than two in three residents being affected. ... reporting that almost nine million Canadians are living in food insecure households. Over one million people in the GTA now live below the poverty line. Just out today, mental health support is the number one reason people are calling 211 first. At United Way, we wake up to a different alarm every day.

Help us end poverty and build a better GTA any way we can. Donate today at unitedwaygt.org. Whether you own a bustling hair salon, a painting company that just landed a big job, or the hottest new bakery in town, So, we have already gotten some baseline info about the Cult of Book Talk more generally, but to get more tea, we would love to introduce Aimen of Aimen's Books. Welcome, Aimen. Oh my gosh, thank you for having me.

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for joining us. Could you introduce yourself and share the story of how you became entangled in the cult of Book Talk in the first place. Oh my gosh, there's like so much to unpack here, but I'll keep it brief. Obviously I do like book content, I like join. So when everybody started doing content creation, you know, quarantine 2020, boredom at home, all the time on my hands. And then I just like fell back into reading because I found this community and back then

what that community looks like on TikTok versus what it is now is totally different. People didn't even know what to call the book community. Booktalk came like later in the year. But I was there since there was just like a couple girlies here and there just talking about books. And then I think later in like August of 2020, I started like making content to entertain myself. Then you know the quote unquote one viral video later and got a platform with the rest of history. And we're here today. Can you just tell the culties what that one viral video was?

Oh my gosh, okay So I forgot the creator who I do edit but he had said something along the lines of like, oh my god Reading is weird or it's not cool like something along the lines of that and then I like do edit it I was like, oh my god reading is like a movie in your effing head and like slapping a book on the Camera of my phone. It's the most cringiest thing ever but it got over like a million views. Looking back at it now it's like why was I even yelling at this guy like but I mean it worked out. The first video I hardly think about it because I look back at it and I'm like okay yeah it got me like out there but I can't even look at it. It's a bit too

much. No one relates more than me. There are some videos of me on the internet. Oh, I want to die. But you are very funny, Aiman. I have come across your videos on Instagram, forgive me. But there's this one video you have where you're like my pretentious ass reading alone at a bar or whatever. I've shared that with so many people.

So you're really representing the girlies. I love that. That is me too. A T like I am that type of person that is bringing the book with me literally everywhere I go. It's quite annoying. Oh, Reese, I were joking about it. I was like, my favorite emotion is smug. Anything that helps me along this journey. Reading Lit Fick alone at a bar. I like that. I could be doing coke. Exactly. Like, this is my drug of choice. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

So getting into some of the more culty aspects of book talk, I could be doing coke. Exactly, like this is my drug of choice. Yes, exactly, exactly. So getting into some of the more culty aspects of book talk, could you recall a specific instance from your personal experience of this cult as being culty in a good way? Some moment where either you or someone else really transcended in some capacity thanks to book talk. Okay, this is the first thing that comes to mind. So yesterday on X Storm released a hand from Yarros, which is like the number one book of this year.

Everybody's been anticipating it. And so Target did an exclusive edition only available on that day. It was kind of like the Taylor Swift book moment, but for obviously the book community. So the lines were wrapping around the Targets. They I think had 14 of them on release day which is crazy because there's like a hundred plus people in line. The target that I went to is in the middle of nowhere. Why are people there? Target opens at 8. I was there like 7 45. There was like 40 people in line. For this book it's a special edition so it's exclusive there's limited quality but I think

it goes to show how culty I guess book talk is because we come together for things like this like special books on The release date can't be pre-ordered. It is it's literally like the Hunger Games, but for like all these book people So like in a way, I mean, I guess it's good for like the publishing industry the author, you know Making some good money love that for her but at what cost you know? Well, I was gonna say I mean people lining up early in the morning like this I'm obviously familiar with that behavior in the context of like Harry Potter. But the book that you just named, I've never heard of it.

I saw Morgan's story about it yesterday, actually. I love Morgan's book. Oh my gosh, what a queen. But they did like a midnight release for it like they did with like Harry Potter back in the day. And apparently that hasn't been a thing since Harry Potter. They do it for like the biggest authors that are coming out with their latest release, you know. for example yesterday was for Rebecca Argyros who wrote Fourth Wing, which is like this romantic fantasy series that has like blown up. Onyx Storm is a third one and people are reselling them for crazy prices as well.

So this is like a moment where booktuck has like come together and we've just gone crazy for this one book. And it's not that different from the original one. Maybe the design on one side is a little different, like the spine, and there's like a sprayed edge, and I think there's also art within the book. To an outsider looking in, everyone's like, okay, well, what's the reason to line up hours before the store opened, whatever.

But to the people that get it, they know this is like once in a lifetime, limited opportunity, I gotta get it before somebody else. So like I applaud the book community for sticking to our love for books when it comes to things like this. Okay, this is all very Swifty coded. No, it really is though.

I compare a lot of books to like Taylor Swift lyrics. And I am a personal like Swifty myself, you know, I was there Chicago Night 3. I also write in my books. Some people think that's illegal, but whatever. And I usually write song lyrics and they're nine times out of 10 Taylor Swift lyrics or Gracie Abramow lyrics or something like that. Anything that I can associate with Taylor Swift because I think she's written basically

about me and all her lyrics. I relate to everything that she says. You've stood in the kitchen in refrigerator light. Yeah, I did with my book in hand. Wait, sorry. I have to ask. And there are book talk books that are based on the Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey love story now, are there not?

So a whole culty crossover happening. That's why I'm saying it's like a direct pipeline because I did see something along the lines of like authors coming out with pop star and football romance, you know, it's just fan fiction. It's literally fan fiction. That's what it is. And what's impressive about it is like they come out with it like instantly. Like we're done.

Books out. You can read it. Everything that you're describing, it's tailor coded and it's Ray Dunn coded because it's like girlies with a lot of feelings and a lot of passions who are just exercising that in an ever lonely era through a community that they discovered online. This line for Rebecca Yar'Yarros's book is the era store for Book Talk. It sounds like, oh, absolutely. We're like a force to be

reckoned with. You know what I'm saying? Like my good time is literally just sitting in that bed reading a book. You wouldn't expect us to have this much energy and be dedicated to the things that we love. But like, yeah, you know, we have so much power. You could turn it out. Yes. But then it's like you said the phrase earlier at what cost. So have you ever noticed book talk take a turn for the culty and like a negative way? Yeah, absolutely. Like I've been in this community since like the very beginning. So I feel like I've seen everything and anything new that happens. I'm like, okay, I'm not that surprised by it because I'm like desensitized.

You wouldn't think that this community can be aggressive or problematic in some ways or this or that. Overall I think it's a great community where mostly a group of like women celebrating our love for reading and everything like that but we do have our moments where some people in our community cross the line and can't differentiate a reality versus fiction and the prime example that I see through that is when for example there's a popular book and people start to fan-cast real people, like either models or actors

or literally TikTok influencers, and that line is crossed from their boundaries versus like reality versus fiction. They are not that character. You might have fan casted them as so-and-so character in whatever book, but at the end of the day, you shouldn't be in their comment section harassing them, asking them for making provocative videos

and stuff like that. Because at the end of the day, we're reading about fictional characters in a fictional world in a fictional sense, and that's a real person. So I've seen that boundary that line cross multiple times. And I'm not just saying it's the reader's problem. Sometimes it's even the person that's been fan casted not respecting the reader space or something like that. Because honestly, the space is mostly women. And a lot of times the people that are fans casted for These characters are guys like hot people on the internet if i'm gonna be honest And sometimes like okay if you're getting all this attention from women be respectful

Obviously like if anybody's not respecting you draw your boundaries, you know, make it clear and everything like that But like even as of recently i've seen some people that have been fan casted for x y and z characters Just like hate on this community But also they benefit from it too like they only like it when it's good for them and then hate it when they want to make fun of it. So it's like, do you even take this space seriously? We have transformed the book publishing industry, author's lives and stuff like that. And I feel like men at the most part, but like everyone altogether obviously need to fully understand that. Yeah, for sure. And just to clarify for the less chronically online,

to be fancast is quite a big deal. It is essentially when the fans of a certain piece of written media designate you as what some would call a face claim or the physical representation of said character. Aimin, could you give an example? I don't know their names but I can recognize their faces when I see them like on my for you page. For example, could you give an example? I don't know their names, but I can recognize their faces when I see them on my For You page. For example, there's this book series, it's called The Devil's Night Series by Penelope Douglas,

and it's this dark romance series. It follows these four group of guys, and the quote unquote official fan cast for them are just these TikTokers. I think they're models as well. So literally their face is everywhere, right? The cult has decided that these boys are these characters Yeah, and recently I saw them kind of dogging on the community and said we hate book talk

This and that blah blah blah on a live stream that they were on But then they'll hold the actual book up in their videos and like thirst traps about it So it's like okay, you hate us just to hate us, but you still use us for views So that's where I'm like, this is not cute anymore. We're gonna have to switch over the fan cast to get somebody new. Okay, I have a question. I have a question. Obviously, most of this hype and fanaticism is surrounding genre books, this dark fantasy genre, characters and worlds that are not of reality. And some of these behaviors also seem not of reality.

It's hard for me to imagine lovers of like, I don't know, history books engaging in this type of behavior. And I'm just curious if you could talk a little bit about the relationship between the genre itself and like the content of the literature itself and some of this kayfabe. Oh my gosh, no yeah that's like a lot to unpack as well but obviously at the forefront of book talk it is mostly romance but that doesn't

just go to show that that's the only genre and community that can exist on book talk like I personally really love fantasy and thrillers and even the occasional memoir, non-fictional books, this and that, blah blah blah. I like to keep my palette pretty diverse even though I mostly read romance. From an outsider looking in, obviously this community just looks very romance oriented, but just when you really get into it, and if you've been in it as long as I have, you see that there's a little bit of everything. Every genre has people that create content for it, if that makes sense. A lot of people think, okay, if you read romance, like you're considered dumb or blah, blah, blah, but that's obviously not true.

It's the highest read genre, most successful genre of all time. So it's like the place to be taken seriously, right? So this like argument, I guess, has created the argument of like anti-intellectualism within book talk or kind of like the opposite of that, like pro-intellectualism. I'm kind of in between because I do love books that make me think beyond myself,

make me think about life and everything like that. And that could be in any genre. Like I feel like even romance in itself can create a lot of great conversations. And it just goes to show that every genre needs to be appreciated. There is room for everyone in this community and just respect everything and everyone.

Oh, fully, fully, fully. I want to clarify one thing when I make this comment that like, I wonder if the genre of fantasy or romance or whatever gives way to more culty behavior on book talk. I don't mean that as a negative judgment about like the minds of people who read fantasy. I'm almost saying it from like a perspective of fantasy inherently and romance inherently because they are fictional genres give you so much more to play with. So I'm writing fiction now and I've only ever written nonfiction in the past and it has already made me lean into my like delulu girly alter ego where like I think my characters

are real. I'm fan casting them in my head. I'm like living in this fantasy world. That is frankly so much more fun. It truly is. At the end of the day, fiction, till I ride or die, it's always going to be my top for me. Fictional settings, fantasy, romance, whatever. Creating this whole world in your head. And it's quite endless too. It's not just these defined corners and these blank characters. They're characters with layers and feelings. It's so fun creating literally these movies in your head.

I think where it gets culty is not the book or the genre side of it, it's the talk. Yeah. It's the sort of like when you fancast someone and it goes from your head to a comment section and now the parasociality of it, we've really crossed into the event horizon. Some people think that they know these people

and then some of those fan-casted people think that they know us, but you're so right. It's literally the talk. Obviously, we're reading fiction books, we're escaping from reality, we're in our head, but then we get on the internet, we talk about those books and make videos out of them, and that's where it becomes reality.

That's where it becomes talk, and that's where our problems arise. Exactly, exactly. And I actually have a little counterpoint that can show that sometimes a non-fiction text on book talk can be even cultier than a fiction text. So we hinted at this earlier, I would love to talk about examples of book talk disrupting the publishing industry by transforming self-published authors into bestsellers. Now one example that we found was the case of The Shadow Work Journal by Keila Shaheen. Have you heard of this book?

Tell me more about it because it sounds familiar. So basically the book publicist Scott Lorenz wrote this blog post about how Book Talker ConeGlay gushed about this book once on Booktalk, basically saying that it was this spiritually healing work of genius. That's how they found the book. And as a result of this endorsement, the author sold almost 700,000 copies directly through TikTok shop. That's according to the New York Times.

Wow. That's like so beyond. This is kind of sounding familiar. Apparently it was quite the hullabaloo. So commenting on what Booktalkers really are attracted to on this platform, Scott Lawrence said that users really want to see like genuine book endorsements that are extremely short and to the point, which makes sense. That's the platform. But in this context, it got a little sketchy. That's exactly what this

endorsement by ConeGlay was. And on one hand, like, of course, it's amazing how Booktalk overcomes some of the awful elitist gatekeeping that exists in the publishing industry that I fucking resent so much. And that frankly is the whole entire reason why I podcast. I podcast because I'm an author and like, I want to reach more people, right? So hard. Yeah. And so on one hand, like, I absolutely love it. I'm like, fuck yeah, stick it to the man that book talk can overcome this elitism. But on the other hand, we wonder if there aren't downsides to that disruption. Because for business insider reporter Julia Pugachevsky penned a piece titled I tried the viral shadow work journal touted as a substitute for therapy. It was so bad that I couldn't finish. And she commented on how the author is not a licensed therapist. She made some other critiques, but because of the like, Oh my God, bestie, you have to buy this book. It changed my life vibe on book talk in these short format videos. Many of the shadow

work journals readers trusted it as a legitimate mental health resource. So my question for you is like, do you think that this sort of hype machine nature of book talk is negatively affecting people's ability to engage with literature critically sometimes? Yeah, that even reminds me of like other examples that I've seen throughout book talk as a whole of, it's kind of like wrongly shelving a book in a genre that it's not supposed to be in, you know what I'm saying? Like I've seen that happen within some fictional book too as well. Like for example, it's like a fantasy book and it's purely fantasy. There might be like a sliver of romance. I don't want to mean a sliver. I mean like they probably glance at each other and then people hyper fixate on that and just forget the whole fantasy world and like everything that happens

in there when really it's like, yo this is a fantasy book. Let's talk about the actual main plot points of it and the world building, maybe the battle and the wars and whatever the heck happens in that book. I should actually talk about that versus this little small detail because then it just takes away from the author's hard work as well creating this world and I see that with the example you just mentioned about the the shadow journal. I see it happen with so many different genres, so many different kinds of books, so many books that are like, okay, you can tell this book is written for a certain community, like a marginalized community. And then people outside of that marginalized community don't respect it in the way that they talk about it within their videos and just take away from that essence that it's trying to portray.

And I hate that, honestly, I hate when we like miss genre things. I'm like, damn, you're making this look bad. Like don't do this. Did you read the book? Yeah, I think TikTok both creates more distance and shrinks the distance between the reader and the author in this really interesting way that can like muddy up the conversation in ways that I feel like might implore people to just discuss books in ways that are less accurate than we might like, but better for content creation. The tropification of books is something I see on TikTok a lot, or like the overemphasis of specific tropes on specific books, I think contributes to this. And it leaves a lot more

of fantasy getting pushed into the romance genre because, you know, there's a romantic plot line that's present and we can cling to that and spread it around circles where the book maybe doesn't belong. And I think along that same vein, TikTok has this huge obsession with glow up and self-improvement culture. And I think when you combine that with the cult of book talk, that distance works in a way that's beneficial to authors that might not be qualified in the realms that they're selling books in, you know? Like it works the other way too. Listening to you speak about that made me think like maybe that connects to this like super tight turnaround time that we were talking about where authors are churning out books in a matter of weeks, months. I'm like,

if half the point of Book Talk is to make videos and to make book content, then I can see how sometimes the polish of a book might get deprioritized. Yeah, it's like not as valuable anymore. Book talk is like almost its own world. It truly is. So, we have been talking about the ways in which people discuss these books and how that can contribute to us interpreting them in ways that might not necessarily be a net good for people's engagement with literature as a whole.

Do you think this applies to any kind of group think concerning opinions about books? Like how is dissent received on book talk when someone has maybe an unpopular opinion? And do you think that the Booktalk platform might like deter people from developing those opinions about books that might be different from what the congregation is saying? Right. I've seen people make compilation videos of their unpopular opinions when it comes to the entirety of Booktalk and sometimes they're railed in those comments or sometimes people are like, okay, wait, you actually made a fair point. And I'm like, okay, I

like that part of Booktalk where we respect each other's opinions and stuff like that because that's like another issue within this community where we don't respect each other's opinions, whether it be like our taste in books, what we like in certain books, and how we perceive the book after reading it. Because at the end of the day, not every reader is the same. We're all unique in our own different ways. The way I read the same exact book you have, and the way I take it in versus the way you do could be entirely different or totally the same, who knows? But that's like another way that people need to understand to respect those spaces and stuff because like I do have definitely some unpopular opinions when it comes to the whole book rolled and everything like that and I'm like wait should

I bite my tongue? Should I make a video about this? Do I want to cause turmoil on my page? I'm pretty peaceful for the most part but like I'll talk about it with my friends on facetime or something like that and maybe some opinions need to be voiced and maybe some don't. Obviously you don't want to voice any harmful opinions that actually harms anyone, any group of people or anything like that. And there have been instances on Booktalk where people will say something and then get that backlash and be like, Hey, like you don't want to say that. It sounds like this. Yeah. And I think Booktalk has the potential to do so much good in that

capacity because like obviously reading teaches you new things and if we're all learning new things and sharing these new things with each other, that's great. But I am interested in learning through more of a cult-like lens how these topics are kind of chosen to circulate and what ideologies are circulating with them. So we wanted to ask you a little bit more about your perspective on the diversity of books that are chosen by Booktalk and whether that's an issue that you see arise in the community and how that's being addressed, if it is. Yeah, as a person that's been in this community for so long, I've seen how this community

has transformed the book publishing industry, but also the way that readers read and the books that we choose to engage with and talk about and make content about. For me, prior to Book Talk, I was literally only reading the popular books and nine times out of ten, those were like, you know, white, cis-het, straight, books that were just popular. Maybe their movies were coming out, this and that. And then when I got to Book Talk, it was really when I diversified my reading and I read outside of the two genres that I really read and found books that like represented myself as like a hijabi woman or other communities because I think like fiction is so powerful in the sense of like yes this is fiction it's a fictional world but we can have such deep conversations

in these books that pertain to real life. One of my favorite books of all time is the Legendborn series and it follows this young black woman that's basically she finds out she has this magic and it's kind of like a King Arthur retelling so she is like Arthur and she's surrounded by people not believing her and that kind of turns into like okay this is giving like racist and like this can reflect in real life situations even though this is like a fantasy book about a girl with powers. But anyways the overall point I'm trying to make is like Book Talk has transformed the publishing industry in the sense of making it more inclusive and diverse and stuff.

Like before I didn't even know books with the main character being a hijabi Muslim woman existed. Like I didn't know any of that until I found creators, whether they be Muslim or not, creating videos talking about these books that actually exist by these Muslim authors. Like damn, I didn't know what I was missing out on because you can't really necessarily miss something that you didn't have in your life before but that's what it kind of felt like reading those books for the first time and I do appreciate the book community overall doing that. I feel like there's still a lot of work to be done. Still at the forefront of the book community it is white, cis, books, this and that and those books are great too don't get me wrong but there should be more room for every kind of book with every kind of representation and inclusiveness

and diverseness as a whole so we all feel represented. I guess it falls down there should be more room for every kind of book with every kind of representation and inclusiveness and Diverseness as a whole so we all feel represented. I guess it falls down to the reader to actually having that self kind of conversation with them I'm like, okay let me diversify my reading like palette the books that I buy engagement talk about whatever it is because it honestly changes you as a person like you become more eye-opened and It teaches you a lot of things without you even realizing it because you're reading for the story, but you get a lot more than just the fictional story. You get literally everything out of it. Based on your wonderful answer to that question, I just wanted to ask one more thing, which is I'm hearing that at the same time that there are like

maybe cons to book talk, like the shadow work journal making some people think that they don't need therapy. There are major pros because it is book recommendations by the people, not by the elitist publishing industry. And it's obvious that there are pros and cons to both those things. Do you have any advice for how people can engage with the cult of book talk in the best way and like the ritualistic, hypey way,

but not in the toxic, ignorant, discouraging, culty way. Absolutely. Honestly, my number one advice is just to follow a diverse range of creators, engage with their content because your foray page is curated to you. If you are here complaining about, okay, well, I don't necessarily get a diverse range of book recommendations from Book Talk, that kind of is very telling on yourself. Like, okay, maybe you don't necessarily engage with creators from all different kinds of genres like if you want book recommendations with either certain tropes or representation

or whatever that you can literally search and you will find it it will be at the very top of the page and then like it engage with it save it whatever and there you go your 40 page is already diversified I just follow people that I really liked from all different types of genres not just romance which is my favorite genre but like literally niche specific parts of the book talk internet. You wouldn't even think there were content creators within that niche specific part of book talk, but there are. It's such a big community from an insider. So that's my number one advice. You have to put in a little bit of the work yourself. Make father algorithm work for you.

Exactly. Exactly. for you. Exactly, exactly. Now that we have made you talk about how culty Book Talk is, now you get to play a fun little game. This is a brand new game that sounds like a cult. We are going to give you a cult we have covered on this show and you are going to recommend them a book, preferably a Book Talk book. Okay. Our first cult, astrology lovers. I'm going to recommend them a book, preferably a book talk book. Okay. Our first cult, astrology lovers. I'm going to recommend the Zodiac Academy. It's like a 12 book series and it's not about zodiacs particularly.

It's like fantasy, it's romance, it's kind of dark, but honestly you said astrology. I'm like, oh yeah, Zodiac Academy. I think they'll find that interesting. Dude, I have so much respect. Every time I talk to a book talker, they're like, oh yeah, Zodiac Academy. I think you'll find that interesting. Dude, I have so much respect. Every time I talk to a book talker, they're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, like there are 50 books in this series, but I flew through them. I'm like, I am such a wimp. I get you, because those books are thick

and people will read them in one day. I have so much respect for that. Okay, the next cult for you to choose a book talk book for is the Cult of Gilmore Girls fans. Oh my gosh, okay, this is so sweet. I would say like anything by Tessa Bailey. She particularly only writes rom-coms and it's comedic, but also romantic,

but also like there's that book, The Pumpkin Spice Cafe. The author's name is something Gilmore. I forgot her name, but that is literally Gilmore Girls. Like you will get that vibe, that essence, that energy with books by that author. Beautiful. Okay. Catholic school alumni, what are they reading? Oh I'm kind of scared. Okay this is kind of a

problematic first recommendation that came to my head but Priest by Sarah Simone even though that is like the opposite of what you have been learning in school. It is a romance book about a priest and a nun. Please no one come at me. It is very hot. That is the first thing that came to mind. I can't help myself. I am so shook at how good you are at this game. I would have no idea, dude. I can't believe they're coming to my head that quick. I should re-evaluate myself. There really is a book talk book for everyone. Okay, the next goal is K-pop stans. Ooh, there's this book, it's called XOX by Axi-O and it's literally about a girl that goes to Korea and she attends her favorite K-pop band concert and I think she falls in

love with a K-pop band member, like the main guy, and it goes exactly with the K-pop stans, so there you go. Okay, last one, Sephora Shop Okay last one, Sephora Shoppers. Oh Sephora Shoppers, okay I'm gonna recommend the Twisted series by Anna Huang because it follows a group of four girls and they're very girly and this and that but the last book in that series called Twisted Lies follows like a content creator and she does fall into like fashion and stuff like that and I know that's not makeup but I feel like people that enjoy makeup will love that series it's very girly it's very cute it's very sexy so I'm gonna recommend the twisted series amazing you

won that fucking game I'm so impressed wow I'm gonna put that on my resume like recommendations like instantly seriously you're like a magic eight ball. Oh my God, thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna try my hardest. You're so welcome. Ayman, you're such a delight to speak to. As delightful, if not more than you are in your book talk videos.

Oh my God, stop. If people wanna keep up with you and your delightfulness, where can they do that? They can do that on literally any social media platform. I'm Ayman's books across the board. Simple, easy, we love it. All right. It is now time for our culty verdict.

Reese, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out. Which one do you think the cult of book talk falls into? I think it's a live your life. That's it. Reese and I were texting about this earlier. I agree, it's a live your life. One huge green flag for book talk is that there's no truly

evil charismatic leader presiding over the rights and liberties of everyone who engages with this. Exactly. Like it's a grassroots cult really powered by women that also benefits women, green flag in my opinion. And there don't seem to really be exit costs. Suddenly you'll have to find your book recommendations elsewhere.

Yeah, I feel like it's like, hopefully you exit into like better literature, I suppose. It's more transcendence than it is an exit. Yeah, I mean, I can't disagree with you. Also, I don't want anyone listening to this who engages with the cult of book talk to feel judged. Like, yeah, at all. Like, truly like live your fucking life, man. Genuinely like pop off, arc those accotars and DNF that NFTs or whatever the fuck. I just won't be there.

Yeah, no, hashtag it, vlog it, set up your little tripod to record a four second snippet of you reading, live your life. I love it for you. Yeah, read a book and try maybe like not even telling anyone about it. We should each leave them with a recommendation. That's really constructive. I love that. What do you have for the culties? What are you reading?

I am about to start reading Sherry Frankie's book that just came out about her life as the oldest a passenger's daughter. So I guess that's my preemptive recommendation because I haven't read it yet, but I plan to. Very sounds like a cult reading list. Goodness. One of my favorite reads of 2024 was The Ministry of Time, which is also kind of genre bending, a little bit speculative.

And that is our show. Thank you so much for listening. Stick around for a new cult next week. But in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult was created by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore of the PodCabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montell and Reese Oliver. This episode was produced by Reese Oliver.

Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book,

Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and Wordslet, A Feminist's Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network, Studio 71. And be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds Like a CultPod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult.