Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Corporate America

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

It's time to dynamically synergize mission-critical alignments. Let's go ahead and fungibly communicate client-centric potentialities. If you can even half-way understand either of these sentences, then you might be a member of this week's "cult": Corporate America. With the help of special guest, Jamie Jackson of the cult-followed @humorous_resources Instagram account, Amanda and Isa are picking apart corporate culture's hyper-controlled rules, rituals, and hierarchies to tease out if this "leading-edge, credibly cultivated, turnkey market" is a life-ruiner or not. To support Sounds Like A Cult on Patreon, keep up with our live show dates, see Isa's live comedy, buy a copy of Amanda's book Cultish, or visit our website, click here! Thank you to our sponsors! Go to Zocdoc.com/CULT and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Visit ritual.com/CULT to start Ritual or add Synbiotic+ to your subscription today. Dipsea is offering an extended 30 day free trial when you go to DipseaStories.com/CULT

Sinbiotic Plus and Ritual are here to celebrate not hide your insides. There's no more shame in your gut game. That's why Ritual is offering our listeners 10% off during your first three months. Visit ritual.com slash cult to start Ritual or add Sinbiotic Plus to your subscription today. With ZocDoc booking an appointment with your doctor that suits your needs, fits your schedule, is in your network, and is in your neighborhood, is easy. Go to ZocDoc.com slash cult and download the ZocDoc app for free, that's ZocDoc.com slash

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The content here should not be taken as indisputable facts. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Are you ready to circle back and reach out? Yeah, we actually are circling back right now because we already interviewed our guest. True. And we are touching base so that our listeners know that we can move the needle. Yes, exactly. We are literally moving the needle so much right now.

Because we're talking about corporate America. We are. And we are today actually opposite of corporate America because we have moved from my couch to my bedroom to the mess that is all of our wires right now. I thought you were going to say the mess that is our minds and our souls. Oh, that too. That too. But there's a lot of mess happening in corporate America.

It's just all buttoned up and vacuum sealed inside of pantyhose. Yes. Push it down. Yeah, push it down. And they're like, you have to wear pantyhose. You can't have tattoos. You can't dye your hair pink unless you're in the tech industry where you can sort of get away with dressing down, wearing flip flops, Mark Zuckerberg style.

But then they'll almost use that as an excuse to abuse you more. Yeah, or if you work in like marketing in New York, it's cool now to be like alt. Yeah. Or if you worked in creative media like where I used to work where it's like, if you're not wearing the latest off the rack, Zara, if you don't have the cutest little bag, you will be ousted. Yeah. You will not get a promotion.

If your Instagram is not on point, you won't be a team player. It is very much like you have to be in with the cool kids to get a promotion at certain jobs. Oh my God. That's like likable. That's like half the job these days. Dude, I remember when I showed up to my first day working at the like creative corporate beauty industry job beauty media where I worked, I could not help but notice that everybody

was constantly speaking in abbreviations. Like they would say abbreviations that literally took longer to say than if they just said the whole word. Yeah. Yeah. People do that at the UN. It was like the same bullshit. It was like, use the internal systems and it was like, why can't we just use Google

Docs, bro? Yes. Yes. Oh my God. When I had to learn a sauna, I was like, I will do it kicking and fucking screaming. It's like a work organizational software, la, la, fuckity, la. I was like, you're over complicating this with systems because you're trying to like confuse us into obeying.

Yeah. That's what the abbreviations were. I can't, I will pop off about this. I'm telling you, corporate America makes me so upset. It's just such a cult. They're like, Hey guys, we actually just like want to use the system to like be more organized and like kind of streamline our systems and a man is like, you're trying to fucking control me.

Yes. Literally. I was like, Google sheets is chef's kiss. I'm not using a sauna. Oh, I mean, Google, this is not sponsored by Googs, but they really knocked it out of the park with that situation. This is sounds like a cult, a show about the modern day cults. We all follow.

I'm Lisa Medina and I'm a comedian touring all over the country. I'm Amanda Montell, author of the book, Cultish the Language of Frenaticism. Every week in our show, we discuss a different culty group from the zeitgeist from Disney adults to Peloton to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? So you said I have both worked in corporate America before, sort of. Yeah. I've worked for long and my version of corporate America was actually still nonprofit more

or so. Yeah. But I feel like nonprofits have become corporatized. So I did experience it to an extent. We've all experienced corporate American culture, even by watching like Emily in Paris, you know what I mean? Because like, or the office, or the office, like I feel like corporate American culture is so unique because it's like people just put on their like little corporate hat and

they become a different person. Yes. It is. It's like severance. Did you watch? Yeah. So good, dude. Severance fucked me up.

Me too. Like when I was sleeping while I was watching severance, I was like severancing myself. Like I don't know. I have to sneeze. I think more clearly after I sneeze. It didn't happen. What are you allergic to? Corporate America.

I'm allergic to corporate America. I'm allergic to pollen. I'm allergic to cats. I'm not like heavy allergies, you know, like every once in a while, I'll just take like a claritin and like a vibe. But you're afraid to die of an allergy met overdose. I've seen you fear Benadryl. Oh yeah, I fear Benadryl.

I was having an allergic reaction and I was like, do you think I can take this Benadryl? I took a claritin like 12 hours ago. I was like, yes. I think one of the reasons maybe why I feel so much psychological allergy and have a strong psychological allergic reaction to things like corporate culture, because I don't actually have any physical allergies. Oh, none at all. None.

Just emotional. You just choose not to eat meat. Yes. That's disgusting. But corporate culture in the United States is very distinct because it connects to just our very history as a nation. We talked about like the Protestant ethic and how that lent itself to the American dream in our self-help episode.

But the Protestant capitalist ethic, which dates back to the 1800s, which has to do with being a good person through qualities of ambition and perseverance and competition, is what gave birth to corporate America as we know it. Yeah. And the fact women were like allowed to work after a little bit. So we should get into the timeline. I think this is interesting. I think this is interesting.

I love a timeline. Oh yeah. If like you're telling it to me. I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell it to you. I'm going to tell it to you. So, as I mentioned, the 1800s era is what gave us that first legitimate era, not like era vibe.

Not like Taylor Swift era. Yeah. Not like I'm having my bad bitch era. It's like literally the 1800s. At time period. Yeah. So that is when we started to see the rise of big American corporate businesses like Johnson and Johnson, Pepsi Cola getting into the early 20th century, J.C.

Me, Ford, so, so many big businesses were on the rise during that era. And that's when sort of the idea of like organizational mingling became important, working your way up the corporate ladder, making connections with your coworkers. That's what lent itself to the sort of like 40s, 50s era of like, I'm going to put on my tie and go to work. Yeah. And that's the thing is like that does make sense to me, especially having like that hard switch from when we went full time on the podcast, you're like the only person I see

now. And like it's fun, but like it also reminds me that now all my friends are like comedy friends are like you. And I'm like, it was nice to have work friends, you know, it is nice to have work friends. But when you start forcing it upon people, when you start having to have like forced happy hours or the idea that like everyone has to climb the corporate ladder, that's just inherently like not going to work. Yes.

Not everyone can fit on the ladder. That true. But what's wrong with the bottom of the ladder? These are don't like exercise. Yeah. My arms are tired. These are topics that we'll get into with our guests, but the energy of corporate culture has shifted a lot.

And what I think is interesting is that the evolution of like bullshit corporate language we started this episode talking about like fucking like whatever we were saying, move the needle and shit. Yeah. The evolution of how people talk in the workplace, which I think the language is one of the cultiest things about this culture evolves exactly along with the vibes themselves. So like in the 80s, everybody started saying corporate buzzwords like buy in and value add and leverage because that was the peak of Wall Street.

And then in the 90s, people started saying like growth hack and ping me because it was the digital technology era literally ping me. And now with like the dissolution of work life balance and startup culture and kombucha on tap and fucking massage therapists and Google ball pits, now there's this movement toward like your coworkers being your family and this like faux mysticism. And that's why you hear people talking about like alignment and synergy and holistic motives and like a lot of procrastination. So we're like circling back, circling back.

Yes. Yes. You're just circling back into oblivion. Yeah. I think the funniest thing about this language is that even though it's had its eras like you've said, they all align with like what is popular in the time period. We all still know it's bullshit and we all still use it. Like when I was like unemployed during the pandemic and looking for a job and like judging

up my resume, I was actively going on LinkedIn looking at other people's work descriptions or looking at the work descriptions of jobs that I wanted and then putting those keywords in my resume so that I could like get an interview. Dude, it's a bullshit dialect. So the language that I just described to you, I learned about that from a memoir called Uncanny Valley by Anna Wiener, which was about Silicon Valley. But I think you said something recently to me kind of like explaining the rationale behind some of the language because I'm, I feel truly spiritually allergic to it.

Like I refuse to fucking use it because it's so conformist and euphemistic and it makes you take Kleriton. That's how you feel. Honestly, I want to take Kleriton of the soul when I hear people use it because it's just obviously so there to like discourage independent thinking and force people to be team players and like basically get people to dissociate from themselves. But you were saying like, because we were interacting with some corporate girlies, really. And you were saying, I think people use this language because they want to separate their

work selves from their true selves. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. Yeah. I want to be my true self all day. Yeah. But you also like love to work all the time. Yeah. But I want to...

Because your work is your passion. And we are going to talk about this with our guests, but there can be two kinds of people on both are okay. There's people who like their work is their passion and it's their like life and purpose. And then there's people who just like want to have a job to like make an income. And obviously both are to make an income, but the people who are just want to like clock it and clock out, they want to use that language so that then at home they can like not use it.

They can take it off like a uniform. You feel like some people bring the language home and that's when it gets culty vibes because it's like you're not even realizing it's seeping into your day to day. Absolutely. And when other people want you to use the language so that they can control you. But speaking of bringing it home, that makes me think of a very, very culty example of this, which is of course, Amazon. Some people might be familiar with the 2015 expose of Amazon's corporate culture, which

was like so illuminating and horrifying. But at Amazon, Jeff Bezos created his own version of the literal 10 commandments called the leadership principles, which provide a code for how Amazonians should think, behave and speak. There are 14 of them, including insist on the highest standards, think big, dive deep, have backbone and deliver results. And according to this expose, these rules are a part of Amazon's and I quote daily language used in hiring, cited at meetings and quoted in food truck lines at lunchtime.

Some Amazonians say they teach them to their children. Yeah. It's because they all want everyone to be the same. It's that like severance vibe. I guess it makes people in leadership positions like relax or like get off on like everyone looking and being the same. Whereas like, I don't know. I don't know if I've just had this like come to a moment within the last couple of years,

but I'm like, everyone's different. The whole world is inherently chaos because everyone is inherently different. And it's like the faster and quicker you accept that, the more peace you're going to find on a day to day. Well, I think you're really getting at and I wonder if recording for this podcast for so long has helped you get there. But like, I really think so much of what a cult is, is trying to control the chaos in a really strong branded way, you know, whether you're talking about like David Berg of the

Children of God and his Berg letters and trying to like make Christianity sexy for the 1970s, or whether you're talking about fucking Amazon with the leadership principles. We're trying to bully the chaos into order. Yeah. I think though that like the language, like again, if you can separate it from like home and work, it is useful because like, for example, I had a friend who like was interviewing for jobs and he was not prepping for his interviews at all. And he kept being like, oh, I don't know why I'm not getting this job.

And then I was like, what are you doing to like prepare for the interviews? And he was like, I don't know. And then I overheard him do an interview and he was all over the place. And I sat him down and I was like, dude, yeah, you got to pitch yourself. This is an elevator and these little words, that's what they're useful for. I always say this about college too. It's like, you don't need to go to college. You don't learn anything in college.

You learn how to learn it. I don't know. I feel like I learned linguistics. No, but what you actually learned and you apply this every time you write a book is you learned how to learn. That's actually, that's, that's quite true. You know, and so like with this language, it's like, you're not learning the language. You're not learning how to strategize optimization for the turnkey vibe.

You're learning how to use that language to like come off super profesh. But I think it's culty because there is a way to speak professionally and appropriately without using this bullshit corporates. I really think it's true. And when I've seen it work in a culty capacity is when, first of all, when you have euphemisms like we're going to sunset that initiative. I don't think that's a real yes, it is sunset. Dude, yes, they would use it at my old job.

And it literally meant like whatever project and idea you had isn't making us enough money. So we're going to sunset it. It was so creepy to me because I was like, say what you mean. You're just trying to soften unpleasant truths when people say things like, let's just hop on a quick call. Well, you just pop into my office. That's trying to like cutesify labor. So true.

And you know what's funny is like a lot of these corporate cultures that use that language to cutesify it, aren't creative. And I'm like, if anything, we should be using this language in a creative field to soften the blow because like when you say you like don't like someone's writing or their work, it is extremely personal, you know, but in corporate culture, it's like, I don't like the way that you like created that optimization chart, then the person will be like, okay, I'll fucking fix it. Yeah.

No, I know, I know. I really think that the purpose of this language is truly, it's not to communicate. It's to clock who's a troublemaker, who's using it, who's not, who's going to fall in line and the people at my old job who use the language and wore the uniform and like pop their brain out when they stepped into that office. They were the ones who climbed the ladder. That's actually so true. It reminds me of like when I was an assistant and the first six months I was actually like

rewatching my Instagram stories that were archived, when I first got the job, every day I was like, I'm so happy to be here. Like this job is so amazing. And then they slowly spiraled into like disaster of me, like going more on close friends and being like, I'm so unhappy. And that's when I like switched my attitude of when like my boss was like, can you make me an et me a latte instead of being like literally right up queen. I was like, sure, period, like, you know, the language, like I wasn't excited and happy

and like sucking their like metaphorical dick. I was just like, sure, sure thing, period. Some other culty things about corporate America really quick is like NDAs, non disclosure agreements, non-competes, social media policies that say like you can't be posting during the work day. I mean, I've had that conversation with bosses before where they were like, I saw you post a bunch. Dude, at my job, your Instagram, which should be like your personal thing, played into

whether or not you got hired. If your Instagram was like cool enough. And then if your Instagram is your personal Instagram, it's like, you do take your job home with you. So it's like a never ending. It becomes your identity. It's literally your personal identity at Amanda underscore Montell at Issa Medina to A's on Issa and Medina.

But I think like, you know, we'll talk about this more with our guests, but there are these two kind of energies that we're seeing in corporate America today. There's sort of very, very buttoned up energy that you'll find in consultancies or like law offices where your personality is actually not welcome. I think you can be like passionate about your job in that like you enjoy it and you set yourself little goals. You need those things to like thrive and survive and like have a motive to work. But you don't need to be like passionate.

Like it's your religion. Yes. I'm so glad you said that because that is ultimately the creepiest part of corporate culture to me is when they infuse the culture with religious rituals like at Walmart, where they make like all the new employees go through like this induction ceremony where they all learn the Walmart chance reminds me of like when I became a citizen of America and like you go to this like American citizen ceremony thing and it's like you literally have to like pledge allegiance to the flag, but it's like way more serious than like it ever has

been. Yes. Yes. It's very much like that. It's like I pledge allegiance to Walmart. Yeah. Spooky. I just think it's so funny how like everyone is obsessed with having a corporate job because

of healthcare because they're like, oh, I get healthcare and I'm like, okay, healthcare is expensive. Like I think I'm going to end up paying like $2,000 for the year for my healthcare, which is like a lot of money, but if you think about a salary, big picture, it's like if you're making $60,000 a year or $50,000 a year, you're making $2,000 less because they are providing healthcare for you. Actually, that's a great point and probably another contributing factor to why corporate culture is so much cultier in the United States is because our healthcare system is

jacked. Yeah. And everyone is afraid to lose their job because they lose their healthcare. Although I think since the pandemic, job security is not motivating enough for millennials and Gen Z and that's where the culty corporate culture enters in. Yeah. It's like, have you heard of a credit card? It is funny that now with like younger people, it's like health insurance to some people

is like less alluring than cold brew in the office. Yeah. It really is. So up next, we're going to talk to a very special guest. You might not know her personally, but you definitely have seen her memes. Her name is Jamie Jackson and she is behind the humorous resources corporate culture parody Instagram account. She launched this account in the pandemic and it skyrocketed to now nearly 260,000 followers

and the memes and reels and stuff that she posts and aggregates on the account are fucking hilarious and making fun of everything from zoom backgrounds to email responses. You've seen these corporate culture memes. So we're excited to hear from the face behind the account. My name is Jamie and I run several meme pages. One of them being humorous resources, millennial misery and horrendous HR. So I have actually been stuck in the corporate world for the last 19 years and it has truly made me an expert in this field.

Well, and also you have a sense of humor, which is nice. I don't think just anyone with 19 years of experience can build what you have. Yeah. You're uniquely qualified. For sure. I should add that to my resume. Yes. Uniquely qualified memeor.

Lastly, these days, that would be a special skill. Can you talk a little bit more about what your experience in the corporate world has been and how did you start roasting it online? So the funniest part about all this and I've been an HR for the last 19 years. So that wouldn't make anyone just go crazy, right? But truthfully, back in 2020, I really just needed an outlet. I've been in healthcare for the last eight years and what happened in 2020, we don't need to say it.

And I just, I really needed an outlet. I felt like I was kind of going nuts. Laws kept changing and, you know, unprecedented times. And so ultimately, I was always making memes for my personal friends and like my personal Instagram page, but it was on private. So I had two different friends that aren't related, like don't know each other say, hey, you should actually like create a meme page. And I thought, well, fuck it.

Why not? Right. 2020, everyone was doing weird shit on the internet. So I did it. And I honestly was so surprised about the reaction and it just took off and it's kind of become this little society of like corporate millennial misery. Wow. That's amazing.

And were you like working full time as you were like doing that or you just kind of quit your job and then started doing that? No, I'm still working full time. Wow. Yeah. Well, it's tough to know how to monetize your meme presence. Yeah. It really is.

And let me be honest, the memes are something that I do for fun. Everything that I've got out of it thus far has been amazing, but not expected. Like I didn't do this to be a famous memer, which I'm not. But you know what I mean? Like people don't necessarily know the person behind my account. I love that it's you. Like it's like you hop on this like zoom and it literally is a corporate girly. Not making it up.

There was a This American Life episode years ago where there was some teenage kid in Australia who created like a parody of corporate culture on Facebook, and then the boomers like sort of corrupted it by making it full of dad jokes and like office jokes, Michael Scott jokes. And the kid was like, no, no, no, no, no, the humor lies in us taking this gravely seriously and act like we are actually co-workers, you know, communicating in this cringy style. But that was a kid. So you never know who's behind the account, but it is corporately you. Have you thought about creating merch or monetizing this account in any way?

Are you just happy for it to be pure and free? No, for sure. I mean, let me be honest, I would love to be able to quit my corporate job and do this full time, but it was never my intention, I guess. So and I'm still actually working in the corporate environment and we'll see what the next six months hold. I'm making some moves. The problem is it's still like almost a stigma that you can't have an online presence and

hold like a manager, director level role in a company, especially in the field of HR. Yeah. I was going to ask like, well, two questions to piggyback off the stigmas in the corporate world. What do you think the most cult like aspects of corporate America is these stigmas, the power hierarchies, like what your home persona versus your work persona, like dress codes, there's so much. Yeah, there's so many.

So the first thing I would say is org charts, right? I mean, that just looks like a cult. It looks similar to a pyramid. And so the CEO is at the top and then all their direct reports are underneath, then it gets wider and wider, very much like an MLM, like you look at an MLM, exactly the same. I'm just saying I'm pointing out the similarities. So that I would say an org chart first and foremost. I mean, they're just saying, bam, on your first day, here's the org chart.

It sounds to me like Scientology's C org. Everybody's trying to have an org. So yeah, but I would definitely say an org chart. Number one, dress code, of course, like, first of all, if they're capable and able of doing the job, why are we confining them to not have tattoos, hair coloring, certain nails? Like I just translate as I've always struggled with that because of course HR is the one that has to be the fashion place. Well, I don't want to be the fucking fashion place.

Yeah. If they're doing their job and their performance is not affected by their purple hair, who gives a fuck? So that's one thing that I think is definitely cult-like. I can't believe that's still a thing. Truly. I know. And I will say, I've seen the trend recently that more corporations are backing off of

that, especially millennials and Gen Z, especially Gen Z getting more now into the industry. They're so grown up. It has to be allowed. They don't have anyone work for them, you know what I mean? So I think that is important. They're like self-selecting out of the jobs that younger people want to have. Yeah. I think another big one is returning to the office.

So granted, you know, I'm in health care. So I understand that like health care, you have to physically be there and see patients. But a lot of companies realize, oh, wow, we could send workers home and then we could save on this 30-year release on this giant 18-story building. Yeah. All of our workers are at home, but yet they're forcing everyone back, right? And that's very cult-y. Do you think they're just trying to control them?

I mean, I worked in an office once that was based in Vegas, even though I lived in LA and I was a writer, like there was no reason for me to physically be in the office. But our very sort of fascistic manager, this woman with too much Botox name Shannon, would demand that we constantly visit Vegas and spend days for no reason being in that office just so she could like surveil us. Well, and that's kind of the thing. I think that Boomer generation, well, we were in the office. We were always in the office.

So it's the mindset. I think it's also almost like they, for some reason, think that we're not being just as productive if not more at home because they physically cannot see us. And even when I post a TikTok or do a TikTok of joking about me being in Target smelling candles when I'm on a work call, people go crazy. You can't do that. Don't show. Don't give my boss any idea.

I'm like, oh, and it's a fucking joke too. I work in a startup. I work 60 plus hours a week. I literally do not have time to go to Target and smell the candles. I wish I did. Yeah. But it's a joke. And also, it's like, they're so out of touch that they don't realize you recorded it over

the weekend and then are just posting it during those hours because that's where the algorithm feeds you. Well, and that just goes to show how dehumanizing corporate culture can be because it's like, are we trying to deny our humanity or that we do things like smell candles? What is the point of that? Exactly. And frankly, why can't I run to CVS to grab my prescription? If I'm still giving a 10 hour day sitting at my desk, but I take an hour to go grab

my prescription for the antidepressant that you guys gave me because this work is a shit show, what's the issue? It reminds me a lot of these arbitrary rules or things that people start doing because of arbitrary rules. I think that a lot of people in the 70s and 80s started to take up smoking because if you smoke, then you're allowed a smoke break. But if you don't smoke, then you can't just go outside for a walk, then that's deemed lazy.

Well, actually, speaking of that, I was thinking, I wonder if sexism and women being in the workplace plays any role in wanting to control how women spend their time when they're at work because in the 50s and 60s, that whole mid-century era when women were a lot of time in the kitchen and at home or whatever, taking a two-hour, boozy lunch was totally a part of corporate culture. Yeah, it was not a big deal. Yeah, it was not a big deal. Oh, yeah, they do that in France still.

I interned in France, shortcut to any college students listening to this podcast. Do all your internships in Europe because they do not work. I interned in Europe for two summers in a row and it was like, I literally would go to the lake for lunch and bathe for an hour, two hour lunch. And then I interned in Paris and my boss would literally leave for two hours during lunch every day and I'd just go stroll around Paris. Yeah, interns, if you can get yourself to France, do so. I'm also curious what went into some of those early memes that you created and then when

you went public with your account, why do you think so very many people connected to what you were creating? I mean, because I think we were all living in this misery. We didn't know what was going to happen. It was still kind of the early days of COVID, right? So we didn't have a whole lot of information. We didn't know what was next. And I think so many people just found some sort of comic relief in our benign lives that

was literally probably sitting in our homes answering work emails. You know what I mean? Also, I think it was this moment where we all realized how similar our jobs are, even though we're working at totally different companies in totally different fields. Everyone all of a sudden was at home on Zoom over email, over chat, and it was like, are we all doing the same thing? Yeah. I remember the coining of terminology, like the Zoom mullet where you had a professional

shirt on and no pants or whatever. And it really made me feel connected to other people like Yusuf was saying, working in different fields because even though when I was working in a quote unquote creative corporate environment and our dress code was like dress trendy look hot, wear the latest, you know, like Oh, the pressure. It was super stressful. Everyone looked amazing all the time. And early before I started at that company, there were literally rules that you couldn't

wear flats, like you couldn't wear distressed denim. The dress code was just a different vibe. But I connected to the like pantyhose and slacks type of corporate uniform because it's just conformity and that should go either way. When I worked in hospitality, I tried to get the general manager of the hotel that I worked at to amend the policy to remove pantyhose and she refused. It was a moment. And I mean, I worked on it for months and she refused.

And like this is like in 2009, this was archaic. Like how gross is that though? We're still worried about that. Yeah, it reminds me of like cashiers not being allowed to sit. It's like somebody get those people a fucking stool. Exactly. I could give two shits in Brenda's sitting while she checks me out. Like take a load off, Brenda.

Yeah. Yeah. I was like, why are we standing for no reason? I know. Like why isn't healthcare universal? I have to stand, Brenda can sit. Rituals symbiotic plus is a perfect sponsor for this podcast because as we know, I struggle with my guts situations and I truly have been taking it every day.

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today. ZockDock is such a good partner for us on this podcast because it's a service and app and a website that I have used in the past and found really, really helpful. I have doctor anxiety. I don't like going to the doctor. I put it off. And a few years ago when I had this hellacious throat infection, I downloaded ZockDock and found a doctor that could see me that exact day and it was so easy, user friendly, chef's

kiss, love ZockDock. As we know, you know, we were in a pandemic for a while and I lost touch with the doctors that I had. I switched insurance multiple times and so finding my main doctor has been a lot easier and also for specific doctors, you know, like gynecologists or things like that, which we do need to go to ultimately, it has been a really cool tool. When you're not feeling your best and trying to hold it together, finding great care shouldn't take up all your energy.

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Sorry, that's oral, like your ears, not what you were first thinking of, you dirty culties, but they actually, they had that too, if that's what you're into. It's an app full of hundreds of short, sexy audio stories designed by women, for women, and we flip and love it. We do because Dipsy is radically inclusive, they have stories for straight and queer listeners, and 56% of stories are voice acted by people of color. New content is released every week, so in between listening to your favorite stories again and again, you can always find something new to explore.

And we like to keep our senses surprised. I love Dipsy because first of all, the app is beautiful, but also, I don't know, you know, for us pansexual people, I kind of really need to get to know the imaginary person before I do my thing, if you know what I mean. Let Dipsy be your go-to place to spice up your me time, explore your fantasies, relax and unwind, or heat things up with a partner. For listeners of the show, Dipsy is offering an extended 30-day free trial when you go to dipsystories.com slash cult.

That's 30 days of full access for free when you go to dipsystories.com slash cult. And that power abuse really connects to the way that more traditional cults are structured because you oftentimes have this middle-aged white man at the top with all the power, and then he has a circle of women doing his bidding right around him, and that kind of sounds like the role that this woman that you were communicating with about the pantyhose was filling because she was like, if I had to pay my dues, and if I was controlled in this way, hazed and such, then you have to do it too. And I'm also afraid to stick it to the man, right?

Yeah. I mean, her argument was literally that, well, I had to wear them. Well, that's great. I don't care what you had to do. And she was like, well, then they can wear pantsuits. I'm like, oh, even better. Like, that's the option. Yeah.

Speaking of like women in the workplace, sometimes I've noticed like HR is a lot of women. Do you feel like that is because of that dynamic that Amanda was mentioning, that like the men put the women in this position so that then they don't have to do the hard part? I think probably a little bit, yeah. But I also think that women have skills that men don't and why they are better in this role. And I'm not saying that there's not amazing men in human resources, but I think that's a lot of times why women gravitate to it, so you have to be empathetic.

Don't get me wrong. There are shitty HR people who are not empathetic. Well, empathy is not a genetic trait. No. I saw a lot about that. It's like all of these things that like men don't have, it's not nature. It's just that they follow their father and their father's footsteps, but the women like learn from a young age how to be emotionally intelligent.

We're more collective in our interactions, period. I would say probably, you know what, 30 years ago, it was like personnel department, right? And it was more like a secretary thing, right? Yeah. It was like a secretary, and she just handled the employee files. Even since I've been in the industry for the last 19 years, it's definitely really evolved into something more where now I have a seat at the table with leadership, and I'm able to be a strategic partner, and I'm able to truly have a say in what's going to happen

next in the organization, whereas before, HR just handled employee stuff, where it's now it's the bigger picture. So I think it's definitely evolved, but for sure, like I would even probably say as soon as 30 years ago, I mean, even since I've been in it in the last 19 years. Yeah. Like I worked at a nonprofit before going into the entertainment industry where there is famously no HR, and I didn't realize how important HR was until I got to a small production company where I was the assistant and the hire and the HR and the PA and the cleaner.

I literally cleaned the bathrooms, and then I was like, this doesn't feel right. And then I was like, who do I go to? And then it's like my own, I can't talk to my own boss about it. They're my boss. I'm the assistant. Like there's no one to talk to. It is interesting though, because the culture of some corporate environments, especially if they're very, very white male dominated, do make it such that at least for me in the

environments I worked in, you're sometimes afraid to go to HR because you're just scared of the power hierarchies. For sure. I remember in this one environment I worked in that was super sexist. I didn't feel comfortable telling HR about what had happened to me around me, what I saw until I was quitting. And it was nice to be able to tell her, and she was super empathetic, but I was way too scared before that.

Well, and that's kind of the unfortunate part of my job, right? Because the whole point of my job is to be able to be there for things like that, right? But there has been such this cloud of darkness that HR is only for the company. They're only there to protect the company, which is actually really fucking far from the truth. But people don't know that. And that's another reason why I think my main page is great, because I post HR memes that are showing that we're human too.

You're humanizing HR. I love it. 100%. But we're employees of the company too. We're governed by the exact same policies. I can't change people's minds, but I do hope that my pages and my humor at least shed a little light on that, because I'm under the same exact policies. I will get in trouble.

My bonus will be affected. I get the same amount of bonus that everyone else gets. If I'm held to the exact same standards, I'm not trying to protect the company. I'm trying to protect all parties involved. And that's the truth. That's what HR is supposed to do. Technically, you're under the same policies, which would make people feel safe, because they're like, we all have to follow the policies.

But if someone felt like the policies wronged them, or the way that rules existed at the company wronged them, they might be afraid to go to you, because they're like, maybe these rules don't necessarily apply in the way that we thought they did. How do you battle that? Honestly, for lack of a better word, cultodynamic, where you really are still under the power structure of the company. So then if the person was like, if I was wronged once, I can be wronged again. Why would I go to HR?

So I think you have to build that culture from day one, or, you know, I'm right now, I'm kind of the department or the one where I'm at. So it's a little different. I was able to create a culture early on and develop relationships with people and kind of show what I am to the company, but also that I'm an ally just as much as I am anything else. If someone complained about harassment and nothing was done, well, that's a huge issue. And that's going to be a huge cultural shift if they want to go back.

And frankly, in HR, if you are pushing things under the rug, then you should not be in your job. I mean, I've left jobs before because a sexual harassment issue came up. I brought it to the owner. The owner said, I shouldn't have been meddling, which I received the complaint. I wasn't meddling. You, as the HR person receiving a complaint. Yeah.

I was meddling and that I should mind my own business. And so I resigned the next day. Well, that's amazing that you resigned. I mean, I don't know how you would continue to do your job if they don't literally allow you. I mean, I, I couldn't. The worst part is I had only been at that job three months already. So to know that much that quickly.

And I said, I knew that I would not be able to do my job, do my job correctly if I was never going to let that was never going to happen. So I was, I resigned and I'm lucky that I found a job quickly after that. And you know, there was actually no transition for me. I was able to start a new job in two weeks. It all worked out. But even so, if I would have been unemployed for a little while, I did not care. Like I didn't even think twice about it.

I needed to get out of there. And I told the girl when I was leaving, I was like, look, this is not going to be taking seriously and I'm leaving. So I think you should too. I think what you went through must happen. Not that uncommonly because now that I think about it, when I quit that job that I was just recalling the HR woman was like, thank you for telling me this, you know, I want to validate you.

I actually also just put in my two weeks notice because of the problems that you're talking about. HR is a help, but if the power hierarchies in the company are poisoned, how much can you really do? Exactly. I just want to ask what was the most controlling, conformist, cult-like experience you've ever personally had or witnessed in the workplace? Return to the office.

Because like, why do you need to have your thumb over me to do my job? When I'm producing just as much, why am I returning to work? Why are you such a cult that you need me in there? What do they say when you try to push back? Do they serve you like buzzwords or a line or? It's all about the culture, right? What's the culture? Is the culture really sitting in a cube?

Is that the culture? That's what they want it to be. Yeah. Is the culture hoarding into a conference room to all wear masks? Yeah. That's the thing too. It's like, if you're going to bring people back to the office, take the mask off. Oh, shit.

This is it. Oh, whoa, whoa. Holy. I'm sorry. It's 20 literal 23. We all are four times vaccinated. It's like, if you're going back to the office, oh, okay. That's what I was going to say.

That's what I was going to say. Let me rephrase. It's a red state, unfortunately. If you, okay, okay, then that's fucking scary and wild. I'm in LA. We're like, everyone's vaccinated. So like, I've been vaccinated four times. I ain't wearing a mask.

I like pull out a Ford F-150. Yeah. You're like, run this bitch over. I'll wear one on the plane. But you're right. I do think that managers and higher ups sometimes treat employees like little dolls. And it's like the show Severance, where you just want to put your little doll in its little dollhouse and make it do everything you say.

And if they break the rules, you're going to take them to the little punishment room and put them through psychological torture where they have to apologize a million times. Like I think that is an energy in a lot of environments. I feel like it's almost like people in positions of like leadership or power make it harder on themselves by needing and wanting everything to go exactly their way instead of like accepting and realizing that like 50% of working in an office or working with others is being able to adjust to personalities and everyone's quirks. And it's like, if you finally are able to internalize that and normalize that in your

day to day, then you're not going to be like battling this everyday thing of like, do it my way. It's like, just get it done. Absolutely. Do you think millennial attitudes towards corporate culture have changed in recent history? Do you think that there is an awareness that corporate America is culty and has that awareness like shifted the culture at all? Absolutely.

I think obviously the pandemic really did, right? So we got sent home and we're able to work remotely. And so we have this sense of ownership of our job, right? Because no one's watching over us and we're able to get things done and instead of maybe fitting it into eight hours, we can only fit it in four and the others were making jokes on TikTok and Instagram. And corporate millennials have almost like created a community, right? And I think that's why humorous resources was so successful, right?

Because we've created this community where we can roast corporate culture and the bullshit that we deal with every day. And I think that's what has been the ship, honestly, was that work from home. And a lot of us are still remote or hybrid and we're still able to make our silly little videos and just get humor and get the conversation started. And as millennials get older and we're pushing more boomers, I shouldn't say pushing, boomers are retiring. I am not pushing anyone with a bad hip, but as they're retiring and Gen Z and as they're

entering more and more into the workplace, I think there's going to be more and more of a shift because millennials are going to be the main age group because Gen X is kind of like a pretty small generation. So we're just going to keep seeing the ship and frankly, I'm really excited for it. But it also reminds me of that shift of you and other folks being able to create these online communities where your experience resonate with each other. It also reminds me of you realizing that work doesn't have to be your everything. Exactly.

And with corporate culture, I think there's like two paths you can take with your job. Obviously, we all have to make a living. There's the path of like, my job is my passion, it's my life, and I work on it 24 seven. And usually that's people who are business owners or creatives or they really do have to work like every hour. But if you work corporate, it's because you want the benefits and you want the hours. And so you have to internalize, all right, then I am only going to work these hours so that then I can have other passions and hobbies and life outside of work.

But I feel like for a while after women joined the workforce and before the pandemic, it was this idea that corporate culture also you had to be like extremely passionate about. Yeah, you had to be all of it, right? So I'm also a mother. So not only do I have to be a corporate baddie, I also have to be a mother, but that still means that I have to have everything else involved in that, right? So I still have to remember to be involved with my kids sporting events or plays or school. And I have to have it all.

Well, I don't want it all. I want to go to my job and I want to leave at five or clock out at five. And I want to then transition to, you know, funny mommy or whatever it is. Yeah. Well, and I love to hear that because I think for a while during the time period that Issa was talking about basically the latter half of the 20th century. There was a shame in not doing what you love and that's why we entered our girl boss era where everybody wanted to like work for a startup that had cold brew on tap and be passionate

and worship at the altar of we work. And now we're sort of reevaluating and questioning that where it's like, okay, civilization has created this really uncanny unnatural system where we like have to work and earn money. This like abstract thing in order to have a life. That's already like not very human. But we still should be able to like relax and not have that all consume us every single moment. So I think I'm really like reckoning with, you know, what labor should mean to us.

Sure. And it's not very human to have a corporate job to live, but it is human to have a job to farm or trade or cook or protect. I think that's what's weird about corporate culture is that we are working hours for money, not for shelter or food. It's a different form of work that is just more unnatural to the human species. For sure. And I've even seen a shift where a lot of us, and when I say us, I really mean millennials just because that's the majority of the age group that frequents my page is

we understand that it's just a job. And so we're just going to do that. A lot of us, we don't want to be vice presidents or chief people, officers or whatever. We want to maybe get to a manager, director level and we're all good. Yeah. It's like dream small. Yeah. And I'm happy with that.

Yeah. I'm good with where I'm at. Would it be nice to get a promotion? Sure. But I'm not hunting after a title change like I was even when I was younger because I thought that's what was important, but it's not. Well, because you have other passions outside of work and you have children and you have a family and like you really cannot do it all.

And I feel like we're just leaving that era of like this girl boss that can do it all. It was the whole Sheryl Sandberg lean in mentality. Yes. Oh my God. I'm so glad I never read that. Oh, that reminds me of the lady who spoke at my graduation. She wrote the book about, I forgot, I wouldn't read it obviously, but it was this author who wrote a book about how like in your twenties are the most important years of your life

and like you have to like work your hardest in your twenties, which I low key am doing, but she gave a speech about how like now that you've graduated, like you have to work your ass off and I got into a literal fight with my parents about it at graduation because they were like, see, she's right. Like you have to get a corporate job and do this and do that. And I was like, no, fucking have fun in your twenties. My parents too, like definitely there's a generational attitude difference for sure. For sure.

I'm lucky. My parents, they're boomers, but they are like, cool as shit. They never gave into that vibe or like that work. And I think that's kind of where I got mine too. Like my parents were like, go to college at least and see if that's something you want to do. Yeah. And I was like, cool.

And I'm like, oh, okay, I'll get a business degree. I don't know what the fuck else to do. It's like if you want your kid to grow up and get a nice corporate job, just lay off. Relax. Seriously, it fucking worked, right? But I mean, you know, it's so weird because I think we were all pushed to do these certain things, right? And like, I didn't know, I always used to joke with my mom about this and this is so

silly to say this out loud, but I honestly did not know that after I graduated college that there was any other option for me, but going to college after high school, like I didn't know that. Yeah. And I think a lot of people still don't think there is. It's less and less with like social media and like YouTube and like everyone wanting to be a YouTuber. Yeah.

But it is still something that everyone feels like they have to do among those in a certain tax bracket. Anyway, I mean, it's easy for me to forget that the percentage of Americans with college degrees is still only about 35%. Yeah. I also think it's like really funny that Gen Z is, I had never heard of this quote before that James Baldwin quote that's like, I don't dream of labor. So tell us what's your dream job?

Darling, I've told you several times before, I have no dream job. I do not dream of labor. But I feel like Gen Z brought it back and like all these like tick talks where people are like, what is your dream job? Or like, why do you feel passionate about like strategic advancement of marketing in Apple? And it's like, I don't. I don't.

Yeah. It was actually amazing and really cool how that James Baldwin quote experience that renaissance and there were so many riffs on it, my favorite was this one tweet where someone was like, I do not dream of labor. I want to be a little forest animal drinking water out of a creek. So I'm curious, speaking of this dichotomy between like the girl boss attitude and the more like work life balance corporate attitude. Do you think that traditional corporate environments like consultancies, agencies, the field that

you're in or startup slash creative corporate environments where you have to be passionate about your work are more culty and why? This is more of not necessarily an industry, but a field. I would say sales bros, sales is very culty. I'll be honest, I don't have much experience with sales, but just their whole vibe seems very like they have to buy in, right? Oh, it's like an MLM, right? But like they have to drink the corporate Kool-Aid and they have to believe about what

they're selling, right? Even if they don't, they have to somewhat have something to back it up. One corporate job that I think is super culty is consulting, like very much they all join in a class together and then they go recruit that same class then goes back to the university to recruit. It's crazy too, because once you get the job, it doesn't mean you like have a job. It's like if you work for Deloitte, you could be off a project and literally not have anything to do and then you have to network within the company to get staffed on a job.

And when you are working, it's like 80 hour work weeks. But you know, I think in college, that was what you were supposed to do, right? You got your dream job after college and you just worked your way up that ladder and you were shattering corporate ceilings. I'm like, no, I'm good. I'm good. I am cool with where I'm at right now. I'd be cool with more money, but not necessarily any responsibility, thanks.

You know, it's another unassumingly really, really culty corporate environment. I only know this because I rubber necked at a podcast where these people were talking about this inside baseball industry, copywriting. There are like boot camps where copywriters become conditioned by the term the big idea. They're literally like writing newsletters for health tech companies or whatever or like writing newsletters about like some water bottle. And they call it the big idea. You need to come up with something like so extraordinarily inspirational.

It's so highfalutin. We're all just like wasting time until we die and figuring out ways to get money to eat food. Like that's literally all we're doing. Well, that's why you have the tradwives now and the whole homesteader movement that's come in as a kind of extreme response to this like cookie cutter hermetically sealed corporate vibe. It's just the American dream is the ultimate cult.

I have a little poem in cultish where I go, roses are red, money is green, the American dream is a pyramid scheme. Bravo. Bravo. That was amazing. The American dream, if like you don't lean into the idea that you always need more, more, more, like I think the capitalist American dream is a pyramid scheme. But the American dream of like having enough money to have a nice house and have a good

family and have nice food and then chill. But that doesn't exist anymore. I think it does in some places. With late capitalism, I think it's becoming more rare. It's harder in cities where like it's so fucking expensive to live. But I feel like. Exactly. You like move to other parts of America where it's like more affordable.

It's like still possible. We want to ask you one last question and then we're going to play a game. So what's your advice to someone who currently is working in a corporate environment who doesn't want to get sucked into the full blown cult? I would say remember who you are. Mufasa. I know, right? Hold on.

I'm going to get really fucking deep, y'all. Remember it's okay to have a life outside of work. It's okay to leave work at five o'clock on the dot. Do not give your all to a company that literally gives two shits about you. I make a joke that your job will probably be posted if you die before you're obituary. That's what we always say. Wow. That's what we always fucking say.

Is it? Oh, when we talked about redacted company that Issa worked for. Oh, the job was posted before they had even fired. Yeah. They act like they care about you and that you're their quote unquote family, but they'll replace you in two seconds. Their bottom line is their family. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Amazing advice. Now we're going to play a game that we're calling do you speak corporates? We're going to read you some phrases full of bullshit corporate language and you're going to have to attempt to translate what they mean. Oh God. I love this, but I'm low key terrified.

I'm going to fuck up. And there is, and we don't know the answer. Low key. Yeah. Okay. So number one, collaboratively embrace unique growth strategies. Oh, oh my God. I feel like it hurts that I could do this one.

Okay. So that's fucking hilarious because I just want to say I pulled these phrases from an online corporate bullshit generator. They're not even real phrases. Well, they can be. They can be. They can be. Okay.

What does that mean? I'm going to actually use that one on my boss in a minute. So a collaborative environment, right, is like people working together, right? Yeah. So we're working together. What was the second half of it? Embrace unique growth strategies. So growth strategies, well, we're having to grow the company, right?

So think of like a startup and think of everyone working to build the company from the ground up. Boom. Honestly, I feel like that would have been a while. You do. I'm shook by it, but my like bullshit meter is like way too sensitive. Okay. Phrase number two, globally restore turnkey systems.

Oh Jesus. That one's fucked up. Oh God. Yeah. Does it, is it going to help the housing crisis because that's what it sounds like? Yeah. I wish it would. Turnkey systems.

That's like, I literally don't understand what that means at all. Turnkey is like when you walk into a house and it's turnkey, it's like you can immediately move in and live in it. Yeah. So like if there's a system or a process already in place, that's like turnkey, you could say that. And like the corporate world, I've actually never heard of that, but. And also how do you restore turnkey systems?

Like put back into place systems that we're all working. If it's turnkey, you don't have to fucking restore it. Yeah. Okay. All right. Phrase number three, fungibly communicate client-centric potentialities. What does it even fungibly mean? What's fungibly?

It sounds like last of us through money communicate. Yeah. So we need to communicate our client strategies, right? So we got to work with our clients and figure out how we're going to basically make money off of them, which. Whoa. Oh my God. That's when I literally did not understand.

Dude, you're literally translating these bullshit phrases. I'm like so shook by it. It's like, I was thinking like this is so beyond ridiculous. Like nobody will be able to understand what this means. Well, no, some of them I understand. I feel like you don't understand. No. Because you've been out of it for a while.

Well, I also willfully don't understand these. But fungibly communicate client-centric potentialities. I did not think that's what it was and the way that you said it was better. I mean, the highfalutin euphemisms. I joke that I have a degree in MSUing, which is making shit up, like just make shit up. I kind of want to like read the rest of them kind of fast, just so that the audience at home can hear how ridiculous it sounds. Four, holistically maintain viral methodologies.

Five, continually implement leading edge niche markets. Six, credibly cultivate leveraged scrums. Seven, dynamically synergize mission critical alignments. See, it's like when you put it all together, that's like someone's LinkedIn page and I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? 100%. I was literally just going to say, you said you, did you chat GBT those or something? But honestly, that looks like you would have pulled them off of like a startup page, like

a company's startup page. Literally. I am so horrified by that. And you know, it meets every criteria of colddish language because this terminology is not communicating something that can't be said in plain English. It's not there to make language clearer or more specific. It's there to make language more vague, more nebulous to divide people into an in-group and an out-group and us versus them to determine who's a team player and who's a rebel, whether

you use it or not to create solidarity. Everybody loves a secret code language. Like it meets every criteria. Yeah. It's terrible. It really does. It does. And we're just out here like recording on the couch, like eating strawberries.

I mean, live in the life, ladies, live in the life. It reminds like you mentioning GBT, a bunch of my friends work at Microsoft and they're literally the ones like creating GPT and like there are like project managers, but they work with like all these other tech people. And we went skiing last weekend and they all were like working all weekend because it's like been this like crazy thing that like they're still all working on. And one time when I heard my friend on like a work call on Zoom, I literally made like a TikTok dance to the language that he was using, like as he was on the call because

I was like, this has like a rhythm. It all has like this like a beat and rhythm that it like sounds the same. And I was like, literally doing like a dance. Okay. Let's do it right now. Globally restore turnkey systems. I was twerking. Yeah.

It's so true. There is this like very haunting chant like prayer like rhythm to this. Yeah. You can dance to it. Holy shit. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode on the Cult of Corporate America and keeping it so real. If people want to keep up with you and your memes, get you out of this world if you so

choose to defect. Yes, please. Where can they do that? Follow me on Humors Resources on all platforms or Millennial Misery on all platforms. Amazing. Well, thanks again for coming on the pod. Yeah, thank you ladies. It was so fun talking to you.

You too. And good luck with your corporate job. Yeah, good luck. All right, Issa, out of these three cult categories, live your life, watch your back and get the fuck out. What do you think about the Cult of Corporate America? I think it's a solid watch your back, you know, because like we do need to pay the bills at the end of the day and so people do need jobs and like I said, I think something that

like has really resonated with me lately is like the idea that you can have a job and check out, but like constantly check in with yourself. It's like kind of like a romantic relationship, like check in with yourself to see like where you are with your partner and then be like, all right, these are like my boundaries. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I agree. I think it's a watch your back.

I fucking hate it. I think it's like one of the creepiest cults we've ever covered on this show genuinely from the language to the uniforms to the activities to the rituals. Like it skieves me the hell out, but you know, I respect that like this is our labor market. Corporate environments are common. You obviously can't get the fuck out of the labor market if you like, you know, we need to pay the bills. So I would take our guests advice and just be mindful of when you start to feel that

cognitive dissonance of like my job is taking over my life. It's taking over my identity. It's manipulating me into staying. It's too cultish for comfort. Yeah. When I start to feel too comfortable, I feel inherently uncomfortable and that's when I like immediately shift. I'm a big shifter and if anything, it's helped me grow.

So if you're feeling stuck, shift it up. Stuck and bad. Yeah. Stuck and bad. Some people like to be stuck. Yeah. They're cozy. Well, that is our show.

Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back with a new cult next week. But in the meantime. Stay culty. But not too culty. Sounds like a cult was created, hosted and produced by Issa Medina and Amanda Montell. Our theme music is by Casey Colt. This episode was edited and mixed by Jordan Moore of the Pod Cabin.

To join our cult follows on Instagram at sounds like a cult pod. I'm on Instagram at Amanda underscore Montell and feel free to check out my books. The language of fanaticism and word slut, a feminist guide to taking back the English language. And I'm on Instagram at Issa Medina, ISAA, M-D-I-N-A, where you can find tickets to my live stand up comedy shows or tell me where to perform. We also have a Patreon and we would appreciate your support there at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult.

And if you'd like our show, feel free to give us a rating on Spotify or Apple podcasts. And if you don't like our show, rate other podcasts the way you'd rate us. I would, I would take a nap. I'm so tired right now. You do have comfy sheets. We are on my bed right now. Ooh, what is this? It's the pillow I ordered like on Amazon.

You don't like it? I don't like it. I have three very expensive pillows and one really shitty pillow and I've alternated all of them and now I just use the shitty pillow. I do. I love the shitty pillow. Yeah. TBH. Well, it depends on the mood.

Anyway, I have that stupid purple one. You got me. I love it. I really like the purple. I love the neck pain. It gives you neck pain. Well, everybody's necks are different. Everybody's soul is different, but there is a cult for everyone just like there's a pillow

for everyone. Thank you so much for watching this video and I'll see you in the next one.