Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Erewhon

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Erewhon: the only place where the quest to enlightenment involves dropping $25 on a celebrity smoothie. This week, Amanda and Chelsea dive into the culty glow of Southern California's bougiest grocery store with oh-so special guests Raven-Symoné and Miranda Pearman-Maday (check out their podcast Tea Time with Raven and Miranda)! From raw milk acolytes and mushroom dust disciples to influencer pilgrammages and ragebait-y marketing, this episode features takes spicier than the hot bar's $17 buffalo cauliflower. It all serves to answer the big question: is Erewhon a wellness wonderland, or a greenwashed Gwynethian cult? We drank the activated charcoal to find out... Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube!Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles. Thank you to our sponsors! Go to https://Quince.com/slac for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty-five -day returns.  Start paying rent through Bilt and take advantage of your Neighborhood Benefits™ by going to ⁠https://joinbilt.com/CULT⁠ For the bookings you’ve dreamed of, list your property on ⁠Booking.com⁠! Please consider donating to those affected by the Los Angeles Fires. Some organizations that Team SLAC are donating to are:  https://mutualaidla.org/ https://give.pasadenahumane.org/give/654134/#!/donation/checkout https://shorturl.at/SGW9w SOURCES:  The Guardian: ‘Playing Russian roulette with your health’: my encounter with LA’s raw-milk, powdered-meat smoothie by Lois Beckett:  https://www.theguardian.com/food/article/2024/jun/09/raw-milk-powdered-meat-smoothie-erewhon Eater: Roaches Like Erewhon Smoothies, Too by Rebecca Roland: https://la.eater.com/2025/4/10/24405640/erewhon-cockroach-bug-infestation-santa-monica-health-department-shutdown Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kulties! Wait, don't skip. I gotta tell you something. My book Kultish, which inspired this whole podcast, is finally coming out in paperback and I'm hosting two incredibly special live tour events to celebrate. The first is in LA on June 9th and is a Kultie live podcast book tour variety show featuring so many special guests including my co-host Reese, former guests Jamie Loftus, Raven Simone, and Miranda Pureman Mayday, plus drag and burlesque performances, and other transcendent surprises. And then I'm doing an event on June 13th in New York moderated by the cult-followed author

Coco Mellors. Check out AmandaVonPel.com slash events for info and tickets. I so hope you join us for these also special events. Okay, y'all, if you've been listening to Sounds Like a Cult for a while, you know that my dad, Craig, is a very special guy. And for Father's Day, he deserves more, which is why I am so glad that Quince

is sponsoring this podcast because they make Father's Day gifting easy. Quince has all the essentials for styling dads. The best part? Everything with Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. For my dad, I'm going with a chic little sweater, professorial, cute, a staple, but also special.

For the dad who deserves better than basic, Quince has you covered. Go to quince.com slash SLAC for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash SLAC to get free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com slash SLAC. This episode of Sounds Like a Cult is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking.com is one of the most downloaded travel apps in the world. That makes it the place to list your vacation rental if you want to earn more with consistent bookings, reach new markets, and turn hosting into a steady income.

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The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Hey there, culties. Before we dive into today's episode, just a quick disclaimer. The health and wellness opinions shared on this episode

are part of a larger conversation on culty topics. While we may not be health experts here at Sounds Like a Cult, we do stand for empirical evidence when it comes to healthcare choices. We encourage you to approach the conversation with an open mind and a discerning eye. And as always, we strive to balance respect

and grace in these discussions. It's a line we do our best to walk. Thanks for listening, and we hope you enjoy the episode. They are feeding off of the sickness of people below a certain tax bracket and keeping our country alive with that. The people that I grew up with, my neighbors, my doctors back at home in Louisiana are literally just fighting for clean drinking water

and access to clean air. Food is no longer like a basic necessity when it comes to the government's way of thinking. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montell, author of the book Cultish Now, out in paperback. And I'm your co-host Chelsea Charles, an unscripted TV producer. Every week on the show, we discuss a different group or guru from the cultural zeitgeist, from Costco lovers to Mark Zuckerberg, to try and answer the big question, this group sounds like a cult, but is it really? Ah!

Ah! Ah! Ah! And if so, which of our three cult categories does it fall into? A live your life, a watch your back, or a get the fuck out? After all,

not every fanatical, ritualistic, culty-seeming group these days is equally destructive. Cultish influence falls along a spectrum. The point of this show is to analyze how zealotry shows up in everyday life in 2025, to have a bit of a gawk, a bit of a guffaw, at human search for meaning, and to legitimately critique how power abuse might show up in unexpected places. Like a cult of adaptogen-fueled wellness warriors promising eternal youth, glowing skin, and gut health supremacy, we're talking Erwan, the notoriously bougie, Southern California-based health food empire that transformed grocery shopping into a full-blown lifestyle movement.

Known far and wide for items such as the Hailey Bieber smoothie and $19 strawberries, Erawan has rebranded wellness as luxury, convincing its devoted followers that optimal health comes at a steep price. And today, to help us break down this frenzied, possibly innocent but maybe not cult-followed chain of health food stores is none other than the iconic duo, hosts of Tea Time with Raven and Miranda, married couple, famously, Raven Simone and Miranda Pierman Mayday. Welcome to Sounds Like a Cult.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having us here too. Airwan members. Oh, period. Okay, 100%. We pay to be a member of Airwan. You're part of the cult, okay. No, we're like, female.

Female part of the cult. I get to use my index finger to get to my membership at the 3-mash register. Yeah, oh, real. Yeah, I get to. Listen. Can I ask how much the membership is? It's $200 a year.

That's not as bad as I thought. Yeah, that's not as bad. So we are all here for a reason. Could you please both spill? What is your relationship to Erewan? Tell me about your conversion, your testimony. We'll go in order of longest shopper there. So babes, you first.

So I have been shopping at Airewann since I was a little girl. Literally was where my mother used to take us. And it was not cool. It was like granola ass people in those aisles. It smelled funky. I was going to the one on Beverly. I do not know when Airwann became what it is today. And the metamorphosis of the brand is kind

of wild, but I've been an Airwann-er for many, many years. Wow. So I used to live across the street from the one in Beverly. And I remember going over there and when I went back then, the hot bar was disgusting. It tasted like cardboard. It was health food central. So I just stopped going. Now let's come to this year. My wife and I get married.

When we get married, she's like a Bristol Farms girl. She's like, you know, a Gelson. She loves that, right? And then I was like, let's go to Bristol Farms girl. She's like, you know, a Gelson, she loves that, right? And then I was like, let's go to Airwan, just cause. And we walk in and it is a new beast. And obviously it changed before we walked in. It was, you know, it had already been on the rise, but I fell in love with, there was actually a smoothie.

I am not a fan of the Haley Bieber smoothie. Sorry, Haley. I liked Dr. Paul Saladino a smoothie, I am not a fan of the Haley Bieber smoothie. Sorry, Haley. I liked Dr. Paul Saladino's smoothie, which is actually discontinued, which was a raw smoothie. And it was very, very keto friendly, very healthy, animal based, the face that you're making is crazy. And their hot bar stepped it up a couple of levels. Yeah, okay.

So when we were discussing what topic we wanted to cover today, y'all were immediately like, Erwan. Erwan. Erwan. On that note, I was wondering if we could, like, each maybe share what we think is the cultiest thing about Erwan for better and for worse.

And like, why we're excited to talk about it on this here show today. I personally think the cultiest thing about Erwan is that people gaslight other people online into saying that certain things are good when they're actually not. I rock with Erwan. I like the buffalo cauliflower.

It's delicious. It's so good. I'm not gonna debate with anybody about that. However, the mac and cheese, don't lie. It's disgusting. Don't lie. I'm not gonna lie to you. Yeah, I just don't like when people go online and they're like, you have to get it.

Well, that's cold seasoning. Maybe it's because they're people who've never before had mac and cheese. Okay. Well, I feel bad for those people because a craft box of mac and cheese is better than our one. It's better.

I don't know, I've had their lasagna and their other pastas and it's good. I think that who's ever making that mac and cheese doesn't know how important it is to burn the edges and to actually season it. They just don't do it right. It's gluten-free as well. Let's start there.

And that's the thing is it's probably a pasta situation because it's probably soggy and then you have wet cheese. But they should be able to do that better because I can make a mean ass gluten-free mac and cheese. Like it's, the pasta game has upped. Yeah, that's true. So, so far the cultiest thing about Erewhon is that the mac and cheese is bad.

Next. I'm gonna actually say the hoopla around celebrity smoothies. That to me is the cultiest. She stole mine. Sorry, babes. It's okay. It's ridiculous to me actually, because you'll see people that would have never

shopped an Airwann, but because Haley or Sabrina Carpenter, I love you guys. Tyla right now has it. I saw my friend. Tyla has one. Our friend brought it home. I saw what that tasted like. Is it mostly water?

Hilarious. It's like algae and water. It's supposed to be Caribbean-esque or have like tropical flavors. Okay. Yeah. I think that's the most culty thing for the bad part. For the good part of it though, I will say that healthier choices,

like their miracle noodle garlic noodle dish, which is a side that they have, honey crustaceans go sit down. This is fantastic. And it's all kelp. It's like not that they have. Honey crustaceans go sit down. This is fantastic. And it's all kelp. It's like not even real noodles. I think I'm gonna say food bar. Food bar and cafe.

Okay, I just wanna disclaim with this. It's so funny to me to talk about Erewhon when I really think, because I've shopped there for so long. And it's just to see now this much conversation about it is kind of funny. It's almost like to me, if all of a sudden Ralph's became this like massive thing,

because I never stopped shopping at Airwon. You know, I went as a little girl. Oh my God, Publix has the new Haley Beaver service. Exactly, and you die. That's like, but can you imagine someone literally be like, okay, I have shopped at Ralph's since I was a little girl. It was true. Okay, I have shopped at Ralph's since I was a little girl. But like, I have, like I have history with Ralph's

in the same way that I have history with Airwond. So it's like, it's been in my head for such a long time. So you should definitely know what's the most cultiness about it. I know, I think the cultiest thing about it is the fact that they've made you believe that Airwond is this new shit that just showed up that has been here for fuck ever.

It's always been the same health brand. It's always had the same kind of hot bar, drink bar, tonic section, vitamin your ass, you know, like enemas here. It's always been the same NAD plus. So they just rebranded it so well. It's the rebrand. The rebrand is the cultiest thing. It's also like the owners early twenties, something daughter who wants to basically

be like the Haley Bieber s that's the vibe she gives me. Okay. I see her tick tocks, but like you follow the air one, one actually shows up on my 4U. What's your algorithm look like then? It looks like that. It looks like everyone does like Erewhon taste tests. Whatever baby. My point is, is that she also has like rebranded them in a way. That's a different vibe. Okay.

Family dynasty. It's like the LuLaRoe children were also selling the leggings. Exactly. Okay, yeah. We will get into the rebrand of it all because that is a culty-ass origin story. It is wild. I think the cultiest thing about Erewhon, and this makes so much more sense now that we have dug into the history for the purposes of this episode, but until we did that, I thought the cultiest thing about Erewhon was the fact that its tagline is,

a grocery store for everyone. Have you noticed that? And I was so flummoxed by that tagline, a grocery store for everyone, because like barely anyone can shop there for anything, nonetheless, groceries. But now I understand why that is the tagline. Can't wait to learn.

And we're gonna get into it. Yay. Let's do it. Let's learn about it. Okay, so Erwan's market's origins actually trace back to Japan. Mishio Kushi, born in Kōkawa, Japan in 1926, studied political science and law at the prestigious University of Tokyo, where he was drawn to philosophies of peace and global unity.

While in Japan, Michio became a student of George Osawa, the founder of the modern macrobiotic movement. Osawa promoted a lifestyle based on traditional Eastern philosophies, particularly the concept of yin and yang as applied to diet and health. He believed that food was a tool for creating harmony in the individual and society. Michio studied closely under Osawa and became a leading advocate for the macrobiotic way of life. He was entrusted with the mission to help spread these ideas globally.

Okay, evangelicalism. We'll touch on the controversies of the macrobiotic lifestyle a bit later. After immigrating to the U.S. in 1949 to study law at Columbia University, Michio met a young woman, Avaline Cushi, who would later become his wife. The pair fell in love over their shared passion for aiding world peace and Eastern philosophy and healing. In 1966, in Boston, Massachusetts, their shared dream would finally come true when they founded Erwan.

Their commitment to promoting health and wellness led them to establish a health food store, which was the first of its kind. I actually thought this was super dope because I thought Erawan was born in California. This is why I think I'm a member. I love Japan culture. I love Japanese culture. I am in it. Let's go.

You could feel it subliminally, perhaps. Oh my God. I think it is absolutely no coincidence that this cult in scare quotes was birthed during peak classic cult era in the United States in the 60s and 70s. Counterculture is counterculturing. You know, we're experimenting in the United States with Eastern and alternative approaches to wellness. Those are making their way here. They're becoming at times weaponized, bastardized. There's a lot of controversy surrounding them. And as Chelsea mentioned, we'll, we'll touch on some of those tensions later.

That's why we went there as a family because my parents are macrobiotic or whatever. And that's literally why they shop there. That's why it tastes so bad back there. I'm just screaming. No, 100% screaming. Period. I have a question. Do y'all know where the name Erewan came from? Nowhere.

Boom. Hey, no, I'm kidding. If that's not a riddle. It's just a literary. If that is not a riddle. Oh my God, that is a fun riddle. It's like, how is it possible that Erewan came from nowhere? This is how I know she's a part of the cult though, It's like, how is it possible that Erwan came from nowhere?

This is how I know she's a part of the cult though, because how did you know that? Oh, that's a no. Off the top of the dome. We know that. Oh, okay. Well that's like no. You have to learn when you sign up for the membership. $200 a year, I know that it's from nowhere.

They tattoo the word nowhere on your tuchus. Exactly. And it's a great font too. Like, is it Helvekia? Like, I need to know. I get that tattoo. It's a really recognizable font. I think that it's actually not the correct spelling when you, they say it, but it's not.

No, it's N-O-W-H-E-R-E. Air one, E-R-E-W-H-O-N. It's an anagram. Which I love an anagram. Yeah. Okay. And when you come up with a perfect anagram for something, you suddenly feel like a cult leader.

You're like, I am a genius. Yeah, powerful. So I think they were probably like, this is the cleverest shit in the entire world, let's go. But they was actually a he, and do you wanna explain where Erwan came from? So Erwan was actually named after Samuel Butler's 1872 satirical novel, a title that is an anagram of nowhere. In the sci-fi world of Butler's Erwan,

being sick is a crime, and people who have been found guilty of contracting illnesses were sent to prison. Interesting. Isn't that just so fucking apt? Yeah. It's just like, if you do not get the Oregon smoothie, right? Yeah. Straight to jail. Wow. The Cushy's vision was to create a market that offered natural organic products at a time when such options were scarce in the United States. Their store quickly became a hub for health enthusiasts and played a significant role in introducing and popularizing macrobiotic and natural foods in the American diet. In 1979, facing financial challenges, Erwan filed for bankruptcy.

Employee Tom Da Silva purchased the company from bankruptcy, continuing its operations. After DaSilva's passing, his widow managed the store until 2011, when Tony and Josephine Antaki acquired the last remaining Erwan location on Beverly Boulevard. Under Antaki's leadership, Erwan transformed into an upscale supermarket chain,

expanding its presence across LA. Mm-hmm. Thank you, Antaki. Mm-hmm. Honestly, so that rebrand was recent. Yeah. Last 15 years. Yes.

So we're talking about the celebrity smoothies. I forget living in Erwan country that having a celebrity smoothie is the most random wild thing ever. Like Jamba Juice is not like... No. Where are you from? I grew up in Baltimore. That's fair. Where are you from? Louisiana. You weren't here for Millions of Milkshakes. What's that? Millions of Milkshakes was a milkshake shop on Santa Monica in WeHo where you had celebrity based milkshakes. And it was the Miley Cyrus, it was the Michael Jackson, it was the this.

We had- Was there Raven-Symon? I'm not gonna go into the fact that I was overlooked. So I wanna say that yes to your point, but LA, when you get these small niche, like really popular places, they gotta go right to the celebrities. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Totally. But it is just so funny how that's like such a natural thing in the cult of Hollywood. And the cult of the celebrity smoothie has spread its gospel like far and wide, you know, like now, obviously, like I think of a celebrity smoothie as a normal thing. But I feel like Erewhon really captured how to make that celebrity culture work for bougie food.

You know, not in a way that was like a bit or cheeky, but in a way that was like real. Yeah, you're right, you're right. Okay, y'all, if you've been listening to Sounds Like a Cult for a while, you know that my dad, Craig, survivor of cult synanon, is a very special guy. And for Father's Day, he deserves more than your typical socks, grill tools repeat. This year I wanted to step up my Father's Day gifting game for Craig, which is why I

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in as fast as 60 minutes. Plus enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. So let's continue talking about how the cults of social media wellness trends and celebrity marketing have boosted the cult of Erewhon. I wanna pose a question to you all.

What do you think is the cultiest social media trend that Erewhon has put forth? I don't know if it's called gaslighting or not, but it's like, oh my God, it's so expensive. It's so expensive. Look, I'm eating it. You bought it. Like you're buying it.

You're right. Oh my God, it's so expensive. But, I'm eating it. You bought it. Like you're buying it, you're buying it. Oh my God, it's so expensive. But you bought it though, still. And everyone, it is busy in the afternoons on every day. It's so busy. So I think it's like the reverse engineered marketing of like, look how expensive we are, but also look at how young our audience is

showing us how expensive it is. I never thought about that. And then when you actually get there, I'm going to be 100 with you. The vegetables are not that expensive. Okay. It's not really that bad. Now when you start getting into like buying their stuff that has their name on it or their prepared food, that becomes expensive.

But like the tomato sauce is normal. Especially air ones can be less expensive than galsons to be 100 sometimes. Sometimes with like ground meat, like the ground turkey and stuff, but it's like they do have like the $30 ice cube or like the $28 bottle of water or whatever it is. It's like they have these individual things that they kind of know are gonna throw people off and make people have these big conversations.

That is interesting. It's a little bit rage bait-y. Yes. Yes. I guess I never thought about that layer. It's like, you bought it though. Yeah. You bought it.

Expensive strawberry. They bought so many, we couldn't buy it when we wanted to do the same thing, because we are also on social media. And also, it was sold out. But that's also the connection that they know that they're doing. They send them to certain locations, right?

So the strawberry only went to Beverly Hills in Pasadena. We know this. And then they want influencers and they know that influencers are gonna wanna taste test it. So influencers will flock and it's a cross promotion because like I'm gonna taste this on my Instagram or my TikTok, you're gonna watch me, that's you helping me.

And I'm helping Erwan by promoting them and going and purchasing the $20 strawberry. Everyone's now working together. It's a culty collab. It's a culty collab. Hashtag brand partnership. Yeah, totally. And when you were saying earlier that like the gospel

of Erwan has spread far and wide, it truly has because I have seen people on TikTok wake up in like New York city and say that they're gonna fly to LA for lunch and they go right to Erewhon. There was somebody who actually was out of the United States who flew into the United States to LA to go to Erewhon and Silver, like have lunch

and they get back on the plane. It's the rice balls. Yeah, it was the sushi sandwich. Do you remember that? The crispy rice viral sushi thing? I got one every day. Um, so good. It's a bit until it's not a bit,

which is the case for so many cults, even dangerous ones. Like something starts out as like, could we really get away with this? And then it's like, oh shit, we can. So you just escalate more and more and more until maybe something potentially dangerous happens. And speaking of viral Erwan nonsense, what about the raw milk smoothies?

Raven nose. Raven nose, yeah. That was Dr. Whatever. Oh, that was Dr. Right, That's Dr. Paul Saladino. Let's talk about it. Okay. So in 2024, Airwon became ground zero, if you will, for the raw milk smoothie craze. When it began selling your king, Dr. Paul Saladino's animal based smoothie, a $20 plus

concoction made with raw unpasteurized milk, colostrum. There's dates, there's honey, and there's powdered beef organs. Promoted as a gut healing primal health elixir, the smoothie gained vile traction on TikTok and Instagram. However, in an interview with The Guardian, Michael Payne, a researcher and outreach coordinator at the Western Institute of Food Safety and Security

admitted he was deeply unsettled by the ingredients in Erawan's raw animal smoothie. He said, quote, people consuming that are playing Russian roulette with their health. Unquote. While fans praised this product as a nutrient dense super drink, health experts and the CDC warned against the serious dangers of raw milk, including the risk of bacterial contamination. And if you think that's wild, get this. An article that just dropped a few weeks ago titled Roaches Like Arowan Smoothies Too

talks about how on April 8th, the Los Angeles Department of Health cited major, quote, violations, unquote, at the Chains Santa Monica location after the public health official conducting the inspection found three nymph German cockroaches, to be very specific, okay? Nymph German. We need to know the species hiding in a cabinet at the store's

smoothie bar. Following a recommendation from the health department, the location temporarily shut down to address a cockroach infestation at the smoothie bar. After a follow-up inspection, both the smoothie bar and pizza cafe reopened on April 10th and the store's health permit was officially reinstated. So all of these controversies under our belt, I wanted to pose a question to you.

Other grocery stores must have health violations all the time without any press attention, right? But Erewhon is no normal grocery store. Its cult marketing, as we've been discussing, has positioned it as this elite health utopia. Cults sometimes girlboss too close to the sun in a way that ultimately leads to their downfall. So my question is what kind of scandal do you think would have to befall Erwan for it to lose its cult status? Absolutely

nothing. Yeah you don't think so? I honestly don't think they could do anything that would make me stop going listen Roaches have been out here in these streets longer than we will. There's too much going on there meaning it's not just one place that you go for one thing. Raven loves the hot bar, but I don't go to the hot bar. I get my supplements and I shop there. I get my produce. I get my yogurts.

I get my sweet potatoes. There are things. So even if I were to find out that the current owners of Airwon are the worst people in the world, I'd be like, okay, but I still need my veg. Yeah, anyway, baby, defend your smoothie. Thank you. So here we are.

Yeah, no, let's do it. Let's talk about the Paul Saladino smoothie that has now been taken off the thing, which was the only smoothie that I got from it. Before you jump into it though, I want to give our listeners a little bit of context to who Paul Saladino even is, because I think it bridges into a larger conversation about Erwan's role in the cult of wellness. Paul Saladino is a prominent figure in the world of nutrition, best known for advocating the controversial carnivore diet, which eliminates all plant-based foods.

He's also a vocal critic of conventional nutrition guidelines, positioning himself as a leading voice in the growing movement of alternative health and wellness. So with that knowledge, Raven, can you give us the tea on your relationship with Paul and his infamously discontinued smoothie? You guys, I left home early and called in to work late because Paul Saladino decided to show up at one of the Air Wands.

I identify as mostly keto, and then I went into carnivore for a while, called into work late because Paul Saladino decided to show up at one of the air wands. I identify as mostly keto and then I went into carnivore for a while and Paul Saladino was strictly carnivore for a while and then he started to get some adverse reactions and he went to animal based. Animal based dieting is just anything from an animal plus honey, raw milk and a couple of fruits here and there, things that animals would use. He was showing up because he also was putting together one of his foods, like a jerky, a beef jerky. I show up and when I taste this smoothie,

I make it at home. That's the thing, right? So like it's a $20 smoothie because it's crafted to the best measurement to be most consistent every single time. Back in the day, I would go to Jamba Juice and I'd get the Mango Madness and sometimes it was super tart.

It wasn't consistent. This is consistent every single time. They used colostrum beef organs, which I make a home beef organ mixture. She has so much spleen in our bottom drawer. Oh, okay. I'm not kidding. Oh my God, serial killer energy.

When I tell you, if you take a teaspoon of black sesame paste, the organ mixture, raw milk, and a little bit of kefir, and you blend that together with some cinnamon, that is like the most beautiful, sumptuous drink you can have. Colostrum healed my gut. I used to have the worst, worst stomach.

I was in pain from the time I was maybe like 12 years old. It started and I would have to like sprint from restaurants. Like I was challenged and I started using Colostrum like two and a half years ago. And I mean, knock on wood, I haven't had a shit attack since then. And I would be like, literally like sweating, fetal position, it's changed my life. And then what happens for all the people who get into this mindset, what happens when you heal your gut,

you have better skin, you have better energy, you're not bloated, you're not like all of those things, which people I think on like the Airwon cult wave are looking for all those health benefits, that's what you end up having occur naturally when you're actually healthy on the inside. Okay, so I think this is where the like more serious culty conversation enters the picture because so much is polarized in our culture right now.

But I think the wellness space is extremely polarized because, you know, my parents are research scientists, and so like, I grew up like super skeptical of alternative medicine of any kind, which like, I think is healthy, but if you err too extreme on that side of things, then you might miss out on certain benefits that have been demonized for really problematic reasons,

you know, and again, we will get into that within the context of Erawan. Bodies are really complicated and mysterious, and that's why we should do experiments on ourselves. Yeah, you have to test what's right for you. Yes, but I guess when it becomes too cultish for comfort is when you take something that like worked individually for you and you turn it into a dogma and try to profit off that dogma, right? Yeah, that's what Paul was talking about and why he felt so bad about writing the book about carnivorism.

And he was like, I can't do that. I turned into one of them and now I'm backing off of it. That's what he was saying. Got you. It's hard because I think a lot of us can relate to the experience of like discovering something that really works for us, whether it's our skin or our bowels or our relationship, whatever it is as a part of our lifestyle.

And not in a nefarious way, we wanna tell other people about it. We wanna push it on other people because it did change our life. But I think there are power hungry individuals. And I think there are people who accidentally start a cult based on what worked for them. And then there are people who do it on purpose.

And there's also people who ask, right? Like there are people who, like, I could look at you and go, oh, your skin is really beautiful. What do you do? Because I've noticed something in you that I want to then have myself. And if you're like, oh, I use Dove soap, I'm gonna be like, oh, amazing,

I'm gonna go home and use Dove soap, but then it's gonna fuck me up because I can't use. So I think, you know, it's very true that that's what people do. Like we seek and we also offer when we find things work. But if you have someone, like you said, a power hungry person who is going to take advantage of something, I think that's why when it comes to relationship

or kind of dating advice, I always pull back from the people that say like, I have all the answers, like those types. Because I believe you're targeting a vulnerable community. You know that people want to understand like how to find love, right? So they're open-eared and they're like, oh my God, and they feel flawed in themselves because they like haven't been able to find love, right? So they're open-eared and they're like, oh my God, and they feel flawed in themselves

because they haven't been able to find it themselves. Therefore they're seeking externally when ultimately there is no one way to do anything on this planet. There's no golden rule that I can give somebody on how to heal their gut. Because for me, I know colostrum helped me, but there were many factors that changed in my life.

My stress levels changed, my happiness levels changed, my nervous system relaxed. So like all of that is gonna impact. So I think that's the missing piece in a lot of people's minds is that they don't understand how to critically assess these situations. And then you have people taking advantage of other people.

Thank you for that. And like, I'm so glad we're like going here in this conversation because, and this is why this podcast is so fun week after week, because we think we're going into some kind of like lighthearted, jokey conversation, and then it goes somewhere profound, you know? But I guess I'm wondering if all of you could weigh in

on why you think in the United States, in particular, there's a reason why Erewhon has exploded here. Why do you think, despite any type of abstract wisdom that we can share all day long about critical thinking and like there is no magic bullet cure, da da da, why do you think here, these like culty wellness dogmas continue to thrive? You know, this is gonna be a controversial thing

out of my mouth, but Americans are ignorant continue to thrive. You know this is going to be a controversial thing out of my mouth but Americans are ignorant and we're so bored and we're so privileged that we'll just fall for anything. We really do out of the entire world think that we are the best country in the world and we are always trying to be better than the next person and And so therefore, we fall for everything. And if somebody has every answer in that interview that's been edited and re-edited and written beforehand, oh, they know exactly what they're talking about.

I'm following them and now I'm better than you. We have a class system that is absolutely ridiculous. And it's not just through poverty, it's also through intelligence, it's also through color, it's also through sexual orientation. Like we are continuously trying to climb out of the barrel and shine and so therefore we will fall for everything. I'm just not a fan sometimes.

I think that we are also a country that is very, very disconnected from ourselves. Like our society doesn't help generate a narrative that is very, very disconnected from ourselves. Like our society doesn't help generate a narrative where people can actually say, oh, I have the answers that I'm seeking. I have everything that I need. And my system outside of me, meaning like my healthcare system,

my educational system is supporting me. We're not supported well in this country. And when you go to other countries, you are like, oh wow, health care is affordable or free? Oh wow, women after they give birth, don't have to worry about being back to work in three months because they have like extended maternal leave. Oh wow, you don't have to work to eat

because they actually help you feed yourself or like, no, it's like my, exactly. But then I think on a spiritual level too, we are told in the United States that we have to like work extremely hard. You're not given space to stay connected to your own inner self and have the lesson of spiritual connectivity, whatever that means to you be your leading force. And I think that as a result of all of that, I'm speaking very generally, because this is not true to everyone here, obviously,

but we're these power-driven beings that are constantly seeking out of our external self. When you talk about places like New York, Los Angeles, we are entertainment-based cities, so then what you look like is massive. And when people kind of what I was alluding to earlier, when you are seeking an external or physical look, oftentimes that look has now been associated with something like this supplement, this exercise routine, this face tape, this morning meditation.

The face tape thing right now. Yeah. And then you have people who are buying into that because they want to achieve the look and they don't understand the deeper levels of things. Like people go, Oh, Pilates girl. And this is the cute thing, but you're not actually understanding the deeper levels of what Pilates is and what it can do to you, the deeper levels of what Pilates is and what it can do to you, much like you're not actually understanding why Air One started and what it can actually offer you if you're going for the air quotes right reason.

What do you think, Chelsea? I mean, we think about this every week, but yeah. I think that America is not about preventative care and not like actually getting to the root of the problem. So for me, when learning about Airwann and finding out that the roots were actually coming from such a good place, I feel like all the controversy surrounding the brand is just another way for people to be able to manipulate us, you know, the system. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting that Raven, like you started your analysis by saying like, Americans are so perfectionistic and privileged. And then we ended some of this analysis by saying how disconnected we are and how vulnerable and seeking and searching we are and how we just want a guru to be able to give us the answers that like, not to sound woo woo, but like that we already have. You know? Yeah, sure though.

And I think at the same time, like again, these are like blanket statements about like America, you know, which is like such a big place. But we do live in a highly resourced society, like when you think globally. And I think culturally we are quite irresponsible with those resources. And a lot of systemic issues are framed as individual issues. And speaking of like the meritocracy

myth and this idea that if you work hard enough, you can achieve whatever perfect health, a gorgeous face, la la la, because we live in a culture that prizes individual effort so much that paves the way for the Hailey Bieber smoothie to be positioned as a cure-all in a way that really hoodwinks the average American in a way that would not be effective in a more collectivist society, where they're just like, a smoothie cannot heal me. Government resources, community care, this and that, this whole battery of things that is already set up in society, that can heal me, but not a smoothie.

And then of course, there are so many cultures around the world that don't have the privilege to even be having this conversation right now. So, all of those complicated truths amount to America being a culty place. Immediately, yes. It's so hard to leave, because you know, my wife and I, we talked about, I was like, I wanna live in Europe, I wanna live here, yes. It's so hard to leave, because, you know, my wife and I,

we talked about it, I was like, babes, I want to live in Europe. I want to leave here. And then we start going through the list, and I'm like, ugh, I'm going to just stay in America. I know my demons here. I know what's going on.

The devil you know. I know the devil, you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. This episode is brought to you by Square. You're not just running a restaurant, you're building something big, and Square's there for all of it. Giving your customers more ways to order, whether that's in-person with Square Kiosk or online. Instant access to your sales,

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So a lot of what we've come across in our exploration of cults is a theme called us versus them mentality, which we were talking about that earlier. It builds loyalty by making outsiders the villain and insiders feel chosen, special, and untouchable. The us versus them mentality is deeply woven into the culture surrounding Erwan market. Erwan has cultivated an image of exclusivity and aspiration catering to a niche demographic of affluent health-conscious consumers, often celebrities and influencers, which can create a social divide between those in the club and those priced out of it. This dynamic fosters a

sense of wellness elitism, where access to certain diets, supplements, or beauty routines becomes symbolic of moral or physical superiority. All that being said, the classism in wellness culture is impossible to ignore. So I just wanted to speak a little bit about this from my experience. As some of our listeners famously know, I am from Louisiana. From Lafayette, I've lived in Baton Rouge for 10 years and went to college in New Orleans. My family has been in Louisiana for over five generations.

That's just my background of the next piece that I'm gonna talk about. But there is a stretch of land between Baton Rouge to New Orleans that has been dubbed Cancer Alley. And it's because it's lined with over 150 oil refineries. And I can't ignore the cognitive dissonance now being on the West Coast for over 10 years. I'm well immersed in wellness culture, okay?

So every time I step foot in an air wand and I look at an $88 seed moss gel that may or may not help you, I think about how it's pandering to a specific demographic of very rich people. And the people that I grew up with, my neighbors, my doctors, back at home in Louisiana are literally just fighting for clean drinking water

and access to clean air. And so for me, I think health and wellness should be the bottom line and not a byproduct of capitalism. And so that's what I struggle with with Air One. Because I mean, it's lit, the rice balls are cool. But is that Air One's fault or our country's fault? Definitely, absolutely. Like it's our country's fault? Definitely, absolutely.

It's our country's fault. Somebody told me in passing that food is no longer like a basic necessity when it comes to the government's way of thinking. They will, since the beginning of food and water, since the beginning of America, people below a certain tax bracket get the shit in of the stick and it's ridiculous and it hasn't changed. My mom living in Louisiana just moved there. I visit her and I'm like, the most healthy place that I can go for food is a Freddy's because at least I know that their burgers are just clean meat. You know what I mean? And it's disgusting and it's sad. And then

what happens is the hospitals are beautiful and the aftercare is amazing. They are feeding off of the sickness of people below a certain tax bracket and keeping our country alive with that. Now, when you come from my Erewhon saying this, therefore, I'm gonna have a problem. No, I'm messing with you. No, no, but I get you.

But I think Erewhon, it is interesting to think about Erewhon. Sorry. You're like, she's like, no. No, but I get you. But I think Erewan, it is interesting to think about Erewan. Sorry. Like, she's like, let me take off my cap and hat. Don't cough up my Erewan. The roaches. I know, I know, I know. It's like those roaches are my friends.

No, but like, I think it is just generally interesting to discuss like Erewan's role amidst all of this. No, I know, I know. I'm about to bring it up. I was joking, but like, the thing is, what Aero One and particularly the CMOS, because they are pandering to the rich and famous that can buy CMOS at an exorbitant amount of price,

which I go to little Ethiopia, and I bought more CMOS for like $5 that I'm gonna send to my mom and she just has to do a little extra work. And it's like, yo, the people that are actually suffering from Airewanda are the rich people. They are stealing your money. No, literally, I was about to say,

I was literally about to say, it is that like BDSM thing again, where Airewanda is like, I know you wanna overspend on this. And the rich people are like, yeah. Yeah. So they get all on it, y'all. Yeah. And it's unnecessary.

It's also, like you said, though, it becomes convenience, too, because your mom having to do extra work, there is something for me, right? This is how my brain works. Nowadays, you hear everything is toxic. There's something wrong with everything. So it's like all of a sudden you don't get organic eggs. They need to be organic and pasture raised. But if they're pasture raised but they're not grass fed, then there's an

like everything is something. Then they're eating corn, then you're this, then there's inflammation. So there is for me a little bit of freedom in the whether it is real or not real that I can go into a place that's like vetted things for me, and therefore I can just like get this, and I don't have to be that worried. This is a privileged place to be, because I do take issue with the fact that we have to work this hard for clean air,

for clean water, for clean food. Like those should be basic human rights that we have. But the system kind of like what Raven was saying about her Louisiana experience and you're saying about your Louisiana experience, Chelsea, is like the sick people have big needs and it makes money for a lot of people and they want to keep us sick in this country. Oh, wait. Yeah. Your comment about preventative care just like snapped into focus for me because like Erwan is the cathedral of the most elite preventative care for the most elite people.

Whereas like these gorgeous hospitals are benefiting from the illnesses of people who did not have the privilege of the preventative care. But Airwond sells preventative care. Exactly, America is not about preventative care. Airwond is about preventative care for people who can spend $88 on CMOS. Exactly. But then at the same time, it's also not

because they're still like manipulating and speaking to only a certain community. It's just unfortunate that it's like, this is a conversation about how to just get nice food and it's this much work. Yes, yes. Like, oh my God. Pretty much we're just saying go to Irwan

because it's our area. Yeah, y'all want us to go. Yeah, I do want to like touch on the controversies surrounding macrobiotics and more of this cult origin story, because it is relevant here. Often in our exploration of modern day cults, we try to identify a charismatic leader, right? That one person pushing a doctrine, selling salvation,

or promising transformation. But as we've already learned, the $25 Haley Bieber as seen on Instagram as cult of Erewhon that we recognize now is so unlike the sort of alt cult that Erewhon was at its start. So when Michio and Avaline Cushi founded Erewhon, they genuinely believed, allegedly, that they were promoting not trendy blue elixirs

for the elites, but world peace and healthy living for the everyday person, which is culty in its own sense, as you joked about earlier, you know, like I am going to globalize what I think is right. Now I'm not a nutrition expert. Sounds like a cult is not a nutrition podcast, you know, and we're not going to get into all of the potential pros and cons of the macro biotic approach to nutrition today. There's like a modern iteration of macro biotics, which is different from what it was in the seventies. And there are benefits. Da da da.

There has also been cultic controversy surrounding it. Michio Kushi did claim at one point that the diet was an alternative cancer treatment, which there's no evidence to support. You know, we've been talking about this this whole time. There's this very polarized culty side of the wellness conversation where people are like, Western medicine is a hundred percent bad, I only do the alternative thing, and then there's the other side of it where it's like any type of holistic approach is bullshit, is quackery, and that tension is very much represented in Erewhon's

origin story. Mainstream American culture obviously tolerates a lot of what I'll call vibes based wellness trends, but the macrobiotic diet was immediately demonized as soon as it got here. In the early 70s, again Pete Coleran in the US, back before Erawan's rebrand, the original store in Boston was actually raided by the FDA after claims surfaced that the macrobiotic diet was dangerous and that the stores literature, particularly Zen Macrobiotics, this book made illegal health claims, the government's actions made it clear they saw this

natural food revolution as a cult of sorts. Now, Avalon Cushi was not trying to take this one lying down. She hid copies of her husband's book, Zen Macrobiotics under her skirt to keep the feds from confiscating them. So this was very high drama. That's my favorite thing about Evelyn. She hid it in her, you know. Yeah, she hid it where the sun.

And her coochies. Yes, thank you for saying that. Thank you for saying that. And this was not the first time that the macrobiotic had culty beef with the government. In fact, its creator, George Osawa, whom Michio studied under, faced his own legal troubles in Japan during World War II. Osawa was arrested and imprisoned by the Japanese government for spreading his macrobiotic philosophy at a time when national unity and militarism were being strictly enforced.

His teachings were viewed as subversive and anti-establishment. His arrest wasn't just about food, it was about challenging authority. So our last question to you before we get into a game is as consumers and just people with bodies living in America today, what do you think we have to learn from these culty Erewhon stories about the relationship between wellness, governmental power and intervention and individual choice? You brought up so much. You brought up the government.

You brought up Air One. You brought up health. And what I actually hear is, when there is something trying to help outside of the norm, it gets chastised. What I also hear is that we don't know what the fuck we're doing. We are on this planet flailing like that blow up balloon

in front of a car place. And we're trying to figure out what to do. Because let's not forget, when you have a whole bunch of humans under stress, scared for their lives, you need to give them comfort. Otherwise, it's fucking crazy. I think that's what happens to great ideas. They turn into cults.

Everything sours, especially in America, and especially when there's less than a few hundred people really down for a closet. Our government wants to keep us in a place of consumership though, and also control. And in today's world, if you don't have some kind of diagnosis, if you're not struggling to figure something out, if you're not seeking some kind of trend, some kind of aesthetic, you're then untouchable. You're not controllable. And so we are all now products kind of, of this unspoken, unwritten contract, which is

we all want to achieve and we all want to look better, be better, be healthier, and therefore we're going to have to consume and purchase and take in products that we might not ultimately need. So let me just get in there really quick. And please fact check me on this. But before Egyptian times, you had smaller communities of humans and they were eating seasonally,

they were taking care of themselves. Farming started to deteriorate our bodies. It was easy to grow, easy to make mass and feed lots of people. It's so funny to have these conversations because I've been commenting on cultishness for so long, I can just hear the ways that people will weaponize them. 100%. Or could weaponize them.

You know, like the cult of keto or the cult of paleo or whatever. People saying like, oh, cavemen ate like this. So I'm gonna sell you a really expensive diet so that you can recreate the caveman diet. And it's like, A, how the fuck do we truly, truly know what cavemen ate? B hot take but I would rather live now than any other time call me an

optimist but there is like immense responsibility that comes with the privilege of getting to live longer and have technology and there are people who suffer immensely from the progress that we've made in society like it is ugly and the consumerism of it all is really I think like just at the heart of this entire conversation because cults create the problem and the solution in the same breath yeah yeah I don't know how to get to like the best of the like Mesopotamia period or even before that, you know, like pre-pre-society Pre-civilization there was wisdom pre civilization, but we shun it now because we show so much more. Yeah, because of our technology

I love that the through line that you guys keep me stating because when I hear the history of You know what happened to George? I keep thinking about, like, Dr. Sebi. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly. He was so polarizing. It's either you were down... Love him or hate him. ...but you didn't, or you didn't fuck with him at all. Wait, who's Dr. Sebi? Oh, my God, Dr. Sebi, the man of inflammation and alkaline.

Yes. Well, it's believed that Dr. Sebi cured HIV, right? Now, to be clear, Dr. Sebi was polarizing as fuck because of many things. His rejection of Western medicine and the rejection of the germ theory. He literally didn't believe the passage of germs through bacteria and fungi were responsible for diseases. Now, I'm not here to judge with anybody,

you know, anybody's belief system. I'll judge him. But... There was a case that he cured HIV. Allegedly. This was years ago. There's so much mysticism surrounding this whole thing, but it's like, apparently something happened, the government got him, imprisoned him because he was going around saying that

he cured HIV, and then he died in prison. So I bring that to now. My mom is an epidemiologist. She's been in the world of HIV and AIDS for over 20 years, helping to make sure that people who are living with HIV and AIDS are getting adequate healthcare. Okay, this is 2025, right? I don't know if you've seen that TikToker who's talking

about how now with the current administration, they're now removing information about PrEP and receiving PrEP on the CDC website. Our government made a pledge in 2019 to end HIV transmission in the US by 2030. That was under the Trump administration, believe it or not. And then all the advancements that we've done with this disease that's killed so many fucking people for that same administration to then go back on essentially everything they said I

Literally can't help but draw parallels to some of the conspiracy theories surrounding. Dr. Sebi's death all those years ago I would say this you asked us a question a little while ago What could air one do to make us not go and I kind of want to rephrase that What would air one sell that would have the government shut it down? Whoa. Like, they must not really be selling health. That's how you know everything in Erwan is fake

because no one's coming after them. Right. Exactly. I'll give you that, okay? Oh my God, LOL, okay. This episode is gonna cure your inflammation. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding.

I am totally joking. It is. Absolutely joking. It is. Absolutely joking. I think now is a beautiful little time to get to a Wii game. Oh, I love a Wii game. We love a Wii game. So it's our version of Fuck, Marry, Kill.

Okay. Beautiful. We're going to read a series of three cults we've covered on the show, including Erwan, and you'll simply answer which you would stan, AKA join forever, We're going to read a series of three cults we've covered on the show, including Erwan, and you'll simply answer which you would stan, AKA join forever, which you'd ban, AKA banish, outlaw, dismantle, and which you'd bunk,

AKA have a little tryst with for a weekend. So the game is called Stan Ban Bunk. Love it. Love it. Stan Ban Bunk. All right. Stan Ban Bunk, Erwan, Goop, Trader Joe's. Ban Goop. Damn.

Bunk. Trader. Stan Erwan. Beautiful. I'm the same. What about you, Chelsea? I'm going to switch out Goop and Erwan. OK.

Stan Goop? I fuck with Gwyneth. OK. Okay. Stan Goop? Mm-hmm. I fuck with Gwyneth. Okay. Okay. You know what? Fuck with her. You fuck with Gwyneth.

And you know she'll fuck with you right back. Yes she will. Ain't that the truth? She would. Ain't that the truth? I am so scared about a baby. Beyonce said, bye-bye. She's like, you know what?

I'm out. Yeah, Beyonce was like, you fucking with Gwyneth, goodbye girl. I am deceased. Beyonce is God, she is everywhere. She sees you when you're sleeping. She knows when you're awake. That's a cult.

Oh, tell me about it. Absolutely. We're gonna do it. Chelsea's like, tell me about it. Chelsea here in her cowboy car. In her uniform. She's like, cult what? All right, next round.

Erewan, essential oils, and chiropractors. Standing on the essential oils, bunking with Erewan, and I'm getting rid of the chiropractor. Yeah, I'm banning chiropractors. I'm standing Erewan, and I'm bunking essential oils. Those answers reflect well on you, I think. I'm definitely banning chiropractors,

despite how badly I want to go to one. I just want someone to crack the fuck out of me, but that's why I have a spouse. Oh, you better just to crack ya. Blow that back out. Yeah, chest. What? I think I'm the exact same.

Word. As me or Raven? Because Raven was- We're the same? I stand essential oils. Yeah, essential. Yes. Okay. Word. Stan band bonk. Erewhon Peloton CrossFit CrossFit. I'm standing on my own.

I could tell with all that meat consumption. I'm like, this is a CrossFit watches it. I love you so much. I'm crying. I love her. She's like, she's like seven years old. I'm older than her. No, who Tia is Tia to me.

She's a CrossFitter. She's like the years old, I'm older than her. Do you guys know who Tia is? Tia Toomey, she's a CrossFitter. She's like the number one female, yo Tia, I love you. Not into those cameras. And she has a baby, she out here lifting people. Tell Peloton to go sit down, I'm so over Peloton, what is it, go bury yourself. So you're banning. I'm banning Peloton, I am stanning Tia Toomey,

and I'm bunking with Erwan. I love cross-faces. I love how we changed the rule, cause it's stan-ban-bonk, like bonk, like shtup, but I like bunking with better. Oh, we've been saying bunk. No, I like that much better. It's like, I'm doing like a long weekend summer camp.

That's what I was thinking. Like a bunking with it? That I was thinking. You said bunky? That is so cute. You were like, bonking. Let's do PG-13 version of this. Hilarious. Bunking with is so cute. Let's do that.

Stand, ban, bunk with. Okay, I'm standing Erawan. I'm bunking CrossFit and I'm banning Peloton. Okay, last one. Last one. Stand, ban, bunk with. Erawan, Amazon, last one. Stan, ban, bunk with. Erwan, Amazon, Sephora. Stanning, Amazon, bunking with Erwan, banning Sephora. Get out of here Sephora.

Go right with Ulta where you belong. Wait, why? For no reason. Because there's so many, no I do have a reason and I love the woman that's a part of Sephora but there's so many, no, I do have a reason. And I love the woman that's, you know, a part of Sephora, but there's so many choices, you guys. There's so many choices. I'm like on Amazon where they don't sell anything.

No, I have no idea what they're selling there. But you're also talking about someone who's been doing her own makeup on television for a long time. And so I like to go into like a makeup store. There we go. That's a little bit smaller, that has more niche brands. Like a Nameez. Like a Nameez or a makeup store. That's a little bit smaller that has more niche brands. Like a Nameez.

Like a Nameez or a makeup forever. Okay. And I just go into it and get what I need. Okay, got it. Oh, brand loyal. Yeah, I'm that person. Then I'm gonna say Amazon is stand and I'm gonna bunk with Airwond

because Amazon is dangerous. Yeah, we need Amazon. Wow, I'm so grateful to the both of you for playing that game. It's been a pleasure. And for having this big, delicious, expensive conversation. We have one final, very important thing to address. Out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out. Which do you think the cult of Erewhon falls into? Live your life, baby.

I would say watch your back. Okay. Yeah. I would say watch your back. I would say watch your back because do your research and you can go to the Vallarta to get some really good limes compared to the one in Erwan. You know what I mean? Like I know of a butcher up the street that sells better meat than Erwan, but you got to go to Erwan for specific things. So just watch your back. That's real.

What about you Chelsea? What do you think? I'd say live your life. Oh! I wasn't expecting that. Not from you. Yes. Live your life. Are you bringing Erwan to Louisiana? Fuck no. They're not going by it. You're about to say I can't even say why I'm not bringing it.

But no, no. No, that's fair. I think for the sake of argument, I'm gonna call it a watch your back just because I think Erewhon is kind of a mascot for the cult of like high-end wellness, which I think is a watch your back. So I mean, I'm not married to this answer.

I'm not even bunking with this answer. Oh, don't bunk with it. I think I'm bunking it though. And I would call it a watch your back. Wow, what a delight if listeners want to keep up with you and your work and your pod, where can they do that? They can watch us on Tea Time or Listen To Us. Tea Time with Raven and Miranda.

And you can listen to us wherever you listen to your podcasts. Tea Time with Raven and Miranda. And you can listen to us wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can watch us on YouTube. We are all over the socials under Raven Simone and Miranda Mayday. Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, and all the things. Well, that's our show.

Thanks so much for listening. Stick around for a new cult next week. But in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult was created by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore of the PodCabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montell and Chelsea Charles. This episode was produced by Chelsea Charles. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson.

Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book, Cultish, the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and Wordslet, A Feminist's Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network studio, 71. And be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult

cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds Like a Cult Pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult. Attention renters, thanks to BILT, you can earn valuable points to use on your favorite airlines and hotels just by paying your rent on time. There's no cost to join. And just by paying rent, you unlock flexible points that can be transferred to your favorite hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. When you pay rent through BILT, you unlock two powerful benefits. First, you earn one of the industry's

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