Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Fantasy Football

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Lace up your cleats, because we’re about to tackle one of the most competitive, emotionally charged, and cult-ish communities in modern sports culture: The Cult of Fantasy Football. This week, Chelsea is joined by NFL host and analyst Kimmi Chex (@kimmichex) to break down how a simple hobby turned millions of casual fans into full-blown believers. From office leagues to dynasty drafts, Fantasy Football isn’t just a game… It's a belief system built on stats, superstitions, and Sunday rituals. We unpack the sermons of sleeper picks, the sacred relics of draft boards, and the emotional highs and lows that rival any religion. Whether you’re a casual observer or a card-carrying commissioner, this episode dissects the community, the camaraderie, and the chaos that make Fantasy Football one of the most worshiped cults in sports. Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube!Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles.  Thank you to our sponsors! To save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code CULT, go to https://www.squarespace.com/CULT Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good. Go to https://Quince.com/slac EVERYONE who signs up wins a FREE toy or gift card! https://www.bboutique.co/vibe/soundslikeacult-podcast Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/st3nalv7 #CashAppPod  London! Come see Sounds Like A Cult LIVE!! November 24th at Bush Hall. Get tickets before they're gone!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hi, my name is Libby, and I'm from the Midwest. And I think that the coldiest thing about fantasy football is just the general hive mind that it creates and the just like complete testosterone-fueled beer drinking. Women will never understand attitude. I formally worked as a server and one of our big merchants would host a big fantasy football draft with all his bros and one time I was the server for it and while I did make a lot of money, it was at the expense of me feeling very degraded, you know, me serving all these men who aren't giving me the time of day, who won't even look at me to order their Miller light, who are just focused on whether or not, they're going to get so-and-so.

So that's what I find the most culty about it. Hey, culties, I'm Kimora. Like, let's start when you're having a nice dinner, enjoying yourself. And then the leader of the cult calls, or the commissioner, as they call it, and they have to drop everything and have some sort of cult meeting where they're arguing about picks. And then how about how it keeps them hooked alternating between fear and reward? On a Sunday, all day, they'll experience pain, loss, and anger, and just, when you think they've had enough. The cult dangles that carrot with a small Monday night football

win and they're back with just enough hope to keep them hooked. And let's talk about how they're always recruiting new members. When I first met my fiance, it was maybe one or two weeks. Now six years later, I can't even keep track. The demands of the cult continue to grow. This is Sounds like a Colt, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your co-host Chelsea Charles and unscripted TV producer and a lifelong student of pop culture sociology and one third of the dynamic trio at Sounds Like a Colt. On today's episode, it's going to just be me and our guest. Every week on the show, we discussed a different zeitgeisty group that puts the cult in culture, from Lulu Lemon to Harry Potter to try to answer the big question, this group sounds like a cult.

But is it really? And if so, which of our cult categories does it fall into? Is it a live your life? Is it a watcher back? Or a get the fuck out? After all, cultish influence falls along a continuum these days. And it doesn't always look the same. Some modern day cults seem super fringy and ritualistic,

but are actually relatively harmless, like horse girls or Jeep owners. The cultiness doesn't necessarily mean they're super destructive, but then you've got modern cult leaders who influence is so omnipresent that we often don't even stop to scrutinize the chokehold it has on us. That is what the show is all about, analyzing and even poking a little fun at the ways cultishness shows up in places so prominent you might not even perceive them as cults, like an empire built on sleeper picks, trash talk, and the illusion. of control, with just enough obsession to make you question your relationships and your sanity. It's time we draft our way into the cult of fantasy football. The spreadsheet heavy, ego-fueled, group chat dominating ritual where ordinary folks transform into ruthless team owners with punny names, lucky jerseys, and a sense of power. Whether you're a stat nerd or just here for the vibes, fantasy isn't just just

the game. It's a lifestyle. So Coltys, if you're listening today and have no idea what the hell fantasy football even is, I got you. Basically, it's a competitive game where everyday people pretend to be team owners drafting real-life NFL players to create imaginary lineups that earn points based on how those players perform in actual games. It's like stock trading for who peaked in high school, but with way more group chats. Now it's time to get into the meat and potatoes. To help us jump into the cult analysis, we've got a special guest today. Joining us is the brilliant NFL media personality and fantasy football expert,

Kimmy Checks. She's one of the youngest and most dynamic voices at the NFL network, known for bringing sharp analysis, deep football knowledge, and serious style to everything she does. Kimmy, welcome to Sounds Like a Colt. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

I'm also questioning my whole life. Like, am I an occult based on the categories in which you ask your listeners? I may be. I don't know. We will see, girl. We'll get into it. Do I need to get the fuck out? I don't know.

Maybe. Okay, so I'm sure our listeners already know you as a major voice in the world of football. But can you tell us a bit about your kids? connection to the world of fantasy football, specifically, like, how deep are you in these fantasy trenches? Yes, I mean, I'm in it. I don't know if I'm fully in it, but I'm pretty damn in it. I'm going into my eighth season with the NFL and the NFL network. But in 2019, I transitioned to the media side with our NFL media network. And when I made that transition, I've somehow stumbled into the world of fantasy football. At the time, I was a rotational business analyst,

and I rotated into the digital media group, and they were starting this brand new digital show and concept around fantasy football because they realized we have millions and millions of people that play fantasy football, especially through our app, how do we engage within beyond just the game of setting rosters and engaging in their own fantasy leagues? And they came up with this concept to start a show

that was a celebrity versus NFL analyst show. So at the time, that was my job was to figure out this beast of this show, but also this new offering that they offered within the NFL's fantasy which were like real-time fantasy update videos. So I think stumbled into it because it was my job, but it was something that I wasn't necessarily like seeking out. It was the need that the company had at the time. All of that is to say, once you get into fantasy football, you legitimately join a cold because I've never been able to like break free from the shackles of that fantasy experience. So I'm in it officially. And you get paid to be in it. So.

I do. I get a paycheck. So shout out to my mortgage. Me and paid via fantasy football. Shout out. It's a pain cold. So we like that. Okay. So that is your life and fantasy football as it applies to your work life. So what about your home life? Great question. And it's so funny because I literally just sent a group text to my neighborhood. I moved a year ago to a new state, new city, knew all of the things, new neighborhood. And my husband and I had this idea of like, let's start a fantasy football league of all of our new neighbors and be really competitive. So I just actually fired off for tech. was like, it's direct time. Like, what is everyone's availability? But I play fantasy football with my co-worker. So we have a league that everybody who's on the show and our producers were in and we're very competitive because we talk a lot of show on the show.

And that's the league that we battle at each other end. So I play in that league. And then Mike's Puzzins, I don't even know if I'm supposed to say this, but I don't think he would even care. He's had a fantasy football league with his friends for over 20 years. This is like their college fantasy football league. They are right or die. They take it very soon.

Seriously. Every single year, you know, they all now live across the country and across the world. They pick a city and they all transcend and descend upon the city to have a weekend of fantasy football. They bring jacket that if you were a champion, you get a red jacket. So you wear like a formal jacket to the dinner. They bring their rings. Like it's very legit. Ever since my husband and I met, my husband has finished top three. Every single year, who's also won. So his friends hate me because they're like, your wife has to be giving you all in this advice. there's no way you were asked for all of these years in fantasy football. And then suddenly the common denominator is you start dating and get married to Ken, and then you're really good at fantasy. So our household is we have separate fantasy leagues, but do we intermingle a little bit

and help each other out? Of course. Of course. Okay. So that's like a perfect segue to me telling you about my fantasy football. Give it to me. I want to hear all of it. All of the scoop. Okay. So I believe in marriage that there has to be compromised. Okay. There has to be compromised. So I grew up in a very sports crazed family. I'm from Louisiana, so I'm an obligatory Saints fan. I don't know two things about football. And this is coming from someone who was wide receiver at my intramural flag football team in high school. All they did was throw the ball. Tell me to run. Okay. I don't know anything about it. Cut to I married the most insane football fan in existence. And to add on top of that, he is an Eagles fan, hence... I was going to say, I'm like, how are you a sane fan reppping another NFC team's jersey? A thousand percent of bandwagoner, okay? So I throw all the parties, I do all the things.

I am very much so in it for the community. My husband said, listen, if you're going to be a part of this, you need to fully immerse yourself in this cult and I'm like I'm not really in it I'm not I don't care about football whatever so one day we're watching the game and all of a sudden the heavens just opened up and a beautiful six three adonis runs across my screen by the name of jalen hurts and I look at my husband understandable understandable listen I said look if you really want me to be down in this colt I'll wear the jersey but it has to be a jalen hurts jersey. And much to his chagrin, you purchased the jersey. But I will tell you, I have never missed

a game day wearing this jersey. That's all it. It's all you need it. All you need it. So while that is the cult of football in itself, just know that my house, fantasy football takes over our entire existence. And my husband is an identical twin. He's a Steelers fan. So they talk trash together. It's always competitive from birth. Okay, I get it. This is all checking out. So that's my introduction to the world of fantasy.

This all checks out completely. I want to jump into the actual origins of fantasy football and how it even became a thing. So fantasy football was born in a Manhattan hotel in 1962 when a group of diehard football fans, including a Raiders exam. a reporter and a businessman decided real-life football wasn't enough. They created a new game where participants would draft NFL players and compete based on their real-world stats. What started as a niche hobby spread slowly through office leagues and sports bars, but exploded with the rise of the internet, ESPN coverage, and mobile apps in the early 2000s.

Today, fantasy football is a billion-dollar industry with over 60 million players. full-blown draft parties and group chats that feel more intense than actual football games. It's not just a game, it's a way of life. So now that fantasy football has gone from a hotel room, a hobby, to a full-blown billion-dollar industry, I feel like the real evolution isn't just the gameplay, it's in the rituals. So, Kimmy, in your experience, what are some of the most elaborate or just plain, unhinged traditions you've seen around draft day or game day? I mean, I think people are just, like, so crazy and in a fun way.

And I'm a football fan, so I completely understand it, right? Like, people have their traditions, they have their rituals, certain people have lucky jerseys, our lucky shoes, or they can only watch in this specific room with the volume on this specific level and phone has to be off and no one can enter the route. All of that, I totally subscribe to and believe if that is going to make you feel good about watching football, you do. you. Thankfully, I feel like I surround myself with pretty normal people who understand that football is a game and we enjoy it for entertainment and for sport purposes and that it is not

religion, but people are legit. So thankfully, I've not seen anything super, super crazy, but I mean, like the rituals of it all, like even my husband and his fantasy football group, I'm like, the way that y'all are grown men with full careers, full families, all living across the country, but God forbid no one can interrupt your fantasy football draft weekend is like crazy to me. It's cute. It's fun. I like love the camaraderie of it all. And like my take now on everything in the world is like, if it gives us a sense of community in a positive way, I'm all for it. The world is so crazy and can be so divisive and so negative. So I've always said like football is the most powerful sport ever to me, especially here in the U.S.

Because every single Sunday, you know what the bulk of America is doing, what they're engaging in, what they're watching. And now with our games on Mondays and Thursdays and on the holidays and we've almost had a game every single day of the week at this point. Like that to me is fun. So I feel like I can't fully make fun of it or knock people down because if it gives them some happiness or some sense of community, all the power to you. I love that. And I fully agree. I think that's with most cult-like things we explore on the podcast. It's easy to poke fun at something that you're on the outside of, but to your point, community is one of the most important things, especially during this political climate. And it's all in good fun. Well, I do have a question about something that you

said. God forbid someone interrupts the draft weekend. Has there ever been like any conflict scheduling in your household during that weekend? Thankfully, there has not. But what it's kind of fun and like I love is that they always do it like one of the last two weekends and guest, right? Because that's when training team is over. We're deep into the preseason. It's not really the last preseason game. Do kind of understand what the rosters are going to look like. And the last few years, I've always been working a preseason game during their draft. So they do at some point pause and have my game on in the background and they have the volume up and they will watch me. And I have a really cute photo of my husband wearing a Kimmy Czech's cheese jersey watching

me in a preseason game while the draft was going on. So all of his friends are very sweet. And I think they do it to suck up to me in hopes that maybe I'll help them at some point. But that is one thing where I'm like, okay, like, it's totally fine. But thankfully, no scheduling conflicts because I'm always busy with football anyway. So if anything, we're both on opposite sides of the country doing us. He's got a fantasy football draft. And I'm actually working a real job. That's very sweet. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too.

That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Hit pause on whatever you're listening to and hit play on your next adventure. This fall get double points on every qualified stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. Hi, Colt family. This is Rachel from Portland, Oregon, and my now ex-partner, thank God, used to be involved in a fantasy football league.

And every Sunday during football season, a couple weeks before football season, Sundays were completely blocked off. No matter what was going on, we were not allowed to have any other plans. We would have probably 10 guys come over every single week. They had a whole trophy. They got their names engraved on the trophy if they won that year. And even the last trophy they had, some of the guys got into a fight and one of the guys didn't want to give up the trophy. And so he unfriended everyone in the entire group and blocked them. And to this day, has not talked to them again. It's insane. Hello, this is Mark calling from Pittsburgh. As someone who I'm pretty sure is outside your main listening demo, that is, I'm an older straight man.

I was so excited to finally have a chance to call because I know so much about fantasy football but then I saw you underline you only want the partners, not the participants, so alas, I've got nothing for you other than to say maybe keep up the great work, love the show, I'm a long-time listener,

and you're single-handedly responsible for me saying things like woo-woo and portmanteau. Okay, so for our listeners, I want to get into some of the rituals and, like, rites of passage that comes with fantasy football. So fantasy isn't just about player stats. It's a full-blown performance with its own traditions, superstitions, and party energy. So the draft day is the main event.

As one blogger puts it, quote, draft day isn't just a party. It's a performance. That kind of energy shows up in themed parties, giant draft boards, color-coded spreadsheets, and even draft day PowerPoints. Then the superstitions run wild. According to Rotor Wire, quote, many fantasy players swear by wearing Lucky Jersey. Hence, why I have this on. My husband does not let me go.

I said compromise, but he's like, no, this is the Lucky Jersey. I'm like, okay, okay, whatever. Lucky Jersey, socks or underwear on Draft Day, believing it could change their season's fate. Draft Day editor describes the scene, Good Food, Good Food, Good Food. friends, bitter rivalries, and endless hours of trash talk while picks are locked in. Examining this through a cult lens, these fantasy football rituals may seem harmless or even wholesome, but that's usually how cults get you. Ritualized bonding in sociology. Shared rituals build cohesion and create what's called collective effervescence,

a heightened group energy that makes participants feel like they're a part of something bigger. So in speaking about this, collective effervescence, these rituals seem to form a tight-knit group. Do you think there's a barrier for folks who don't speak the language of football? Like, is there some sort of gatekeeping baked into the culture? Oh, that's a really interesting question. And I definitely think there is, because even when I was getting started as a fantasy analyst, like back in 2019, so much of it is just like naturally ingrained language, right? And just like these words that the guys that I worked with and women I work with would just throw around. And I felt like I was constantly trying to catch up because my entire concept of football was

always like watching it in person on the field. And I thought fantasy was like dumb and silly and just odd and something that I didn't think that I would want to engage in. But then once I got in the world, I was like, wait, the reason why maybe it wasn't engaging is because it was kind of this gatekeeping like old man, not old man society, but like guys world. And now I think we've seen this massive shift that, like, to me, I think the easiest way for new football fans to engage and understand the game in a completely new way. Because you get, like, so invested in the NFL team and organization that you love, right, just as a fan. But then this is now giving you exposure into all 32 franchises, because the odds that you drafted players from the exact same

team, it's impossible in fantasy football. You can't do that. So to me, it's such a fun way to get people who kind of think football is like, oh, it's just this thing on TV that people are obsessed with and I don't get it and I don't understand it. It gives them an automatic, like, credibility and way to engage in the game. And what I think is like very low stakes, right? I don't play in leagues that are like super intense. My husband, he can do that. Y'all can be crazy. But for me, it's like, it's way more fun. It's a way to like talk shit with friends to follow the game. And so much of fantasy is also dumb luck. So I understand people wear their socks and their jerseys and they have their drafting rituals, knock on wood, but, like, injuries happen in football.

If your star player goes down with an injury on week two, that's not on you. Like, you as one individual, like, there's millions of people who probably drafted that same guy. It's not on y'all. It's the game of football. It's the reality of what happens. And that then means, like, you got to go on to the next guy. So I think it's a really fun, low-stakes way to get involved. And I would love, like, being a black woman in the fantasy space and kind of giving it a more diverse and equitable lens. We have such a young audience that loves fantasy football, too. Like, there are our friends' kids who are in fifth grade

and they have leagues with their friends. Like, it's a really fun way for every single generation of football fan to get engaged to have fun and to support the game outside of the team that just you root for. Community. And you know what? So there's an inside joke with our listeners because I am susceptible to joining very low.

stakes, cults. If I am just slightly convinced that it might be fun or a good time, I'm in. It's literally so fun. So everybody needs to join fantasy. You should start a cult fantasy football league with some lucky listeners. I hope everyone is watching on YouTube because your intense eye contact is convincing me that I need to join the cult of fantasy football. You heard it here first. Yeah, great. Done. It's so fun. It's literally so fun. And like, you cannot tell me people don't just have a competitive, like, nature to them.

Like, it's fun to beat people at something. And it's not physical. You don't need to, like, overly exert yourself. Once you draft, it's checking in a few times a week on your phone for all of five to ten minutes to make sure your team is healthy. There are no guys on a buy week and you're good. This is like low stakes fun. This is low stakes competitiveness.

You don't have to exert anything extra other than engaging on your phone, setting your roster. And then watching football. And when you watch football, you have so much more fun because you're checking your team as the game goes on. And you're like, yes, this is what I need. I need at least 10 points from Travis Kelsey. And then he gets it. And you're so high.

Like, you're just so happy. See, the thing is, the only thing that I will say is something about what you were talking about earlier. The vocabulary associated with, that's a little intimidating for me. But it depends on all the leagues you're in, right? Like, is it a keeper league? Is it a dynasty league? Is it a redraft league?

Like, all of that, to me, was very confusing because people just talk about it as if it's, like, primary language. And if you're an outsider, that's a lot to absorb. But, like, one, Google is free, so you can always Google. And two, you can always ask somebody. And three, like, my piece of advice would be, like, join a fantasy football league or join a league with people who are in the same place as you. And, like, all join together and, like, learn at the same time.

Then it's fun. And everybody is kind of on the same learning curve. in engaging in the exact same type of way. So don't let the language scare you. Go in, like, very easy. Do like a PPR league, which even that sounds crazy to people if you don't know. Point for reception, PPR.

That's probably the most common and easy leagues that you could join and just like get it on the ground floor. It's so fun. And with this new league I'm starting that I was telling you with these people and couples in my neighborhood, I'm like, it's a fun way to immediately have camaraderie with strangers. You're all engaging. the exact same thing. You're all rooting for the same outcome. And it just like, I don't know,

it gives you, like we said, community. You can do it with strangers or you can do it with people you've known forever, but it's an immediate like community builder. And then something to look forward to. Like if you have a good experience, you know, okay, every August and of August, we're going to have the draft. I'm going to see these people. I'm going to do these things. It does give you a fun, something to look for and root forward and practice all your Pinterest skills to make a cute appetizer to bring to the draft. Like, it's a win-win every way you look at it in my vision. You know, Kimmy,

I'm fucking with this. I'm loving this cell. It's easy. It's fun. You can also just like, this is the other, like, you can also just like hit auto draft and then the app or your phone could do it for you. Like, you don't need a reinvent the wheel. Like, this is light work. Okay, but you're saying that. And first of all,

I don't even know what this means, but I hear so many things in the next room about auto draft. I'm like, I don't even know what he's talking about. People would be haters about it. But like, whenever app that you play fantasy on, so I play it on the NFL's fantasy app, but there's ESPN, Yahoo has an app. Like, there's, you know, millions of apps that you can engage in.

They all have an option for auto draft. So if, for example, it's a draft day, you have a timer on the clock for when you can make your draft pick selection. If you don't make it in time, the app will automatically make it for you. And each app every single year collects and summarizes all of last season's data from all these football players. And it ranks them in order of like top receivers, top quarterbacks, top running backs, top tight ends, top defenses, top kickers. So it's all in a sequential order. And it would just automatically pick whoever is the highest rated player at that position.

and it would take it or it would take what player the algorithm of the app thinks that you should drive. If you get in a pinch and you're like, I literally don't know, you could always just rely on the information of the app because they, yeah, that's what it's for. Okay. I'm trying to help people out. I'm trying to get free game here. It's low stakes. I'm going to do it. So I want to talk a little bit about, which you kind of tease a little bit, but the gender gap in the world of fantasy football.

and football in general. Because like most culty spaces, it's complicated. For women, fantasy leagues can feel like a total boys club, highly masculine, hyper-competitive, and full of jargon that gate keeps more than it invites. It reminds me of the second sex where Simone de Beauvoir wrote that woman is the other, a role assigned in relation to a dominant male norm.

That's exactly how some women describe the fantasy world. You're not automatically a part of it. it, you have to prove you deserve to be there. And some studies show that while men often join fantasy leagues to enjoy enhance and socialize, many women play for different reasons, like the challenge of proving they belong or the chance to truly connect with other fans and players. One woman told sports feel good stories that the men in her league treated her like an easy win until she started beating them. Suddenly, she had their respect. Like women of fantasy football are started to name the problem out loud.

Quote, fantasy football should be inclusive to women, but the simple fact is it isn't, end quote. The tension between exclusion and inclusion is where the cultiest part of fantasy football really lives. Because when a group makes you feel like you have to earn your way to be seen, that's hierarchy, my friends. So you've built a major platform in a space that's historically been dominated by men, both in football and in fantasy football. Have there been moments where you felt like you've had to earn your way just to be seen? And how do you navigate that tension between being included and still feeling like the other? Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of discourse and understandably so about the ginger gap and football. I think thankfully, we're shifting away from that and the norm is now like football.

really is for everybody. And you can look at even like the fandom and the craze around teenage girls and Taylor Swift these last few years and getting that whole new fan base engaged in football and like having these dynamic touch points with this younger audience of girls like now wanting to watch football with their dads because there's this pop star associated. But even prior to all of that, women have always long loved football. If you look at some of the oldest families that have owned NFL organization, they have been run by bad ass women. For the real people who know the history of the football, football has always been family. It has always been women. And anybody who's ever kind of pushed against that to me, I'm like, one year a hater until you actually have no fucking

idea what you're talking about. Because some of the grandmothers of the game of football are obviously women, hence the name of grandmother. Some of the founding members of the NFL and bringing these organizations to life were women. So now the argument's dead, just right there off rip. In the fantasy space, though, it's like this really, in my opinion, my experience has been super inviting. One, I think it's a consequence of the people who I work with who were always super welcoming and inviting into the space because I think they've always known, like, it's a low-stakes game. Like, we are playing a fake game about a real game of fantasy football, which in essence is just pig skin, wrapped in a ball form, being thrown around the field. Of course, there's so much nuance and

effort and energy and strategy that goes into the game on the field, but like nothing in regards to fantasy football is saving the world are like making the world rotate even faster. Like there's nothing that needs to be hateful about the game because of anything, it's like a way to get more people engaged. And any man who's ever had an issue with me or any analysis I've ever said, like I just take that stuff just on the chin and just like let it brush off because it's so non-consequential to my life. And I think being prepared for the moment, knowing what the hell you're talking about,

being well researched, like understanding the league inside and out, and also having credibility amongst the athletes and the teams and the coaches themselves. Like, if someone wants to push back against anything I say or what I do on air, it's like, well, kind of NFL head coach name you by name or recognize you walking down the street and say hello to you? Does an NFL player know that you even exist? Like, if the answer is no, I really have kind of nothing to say to you. And I mean that out of completely total respect, like there's nothing shitty or shady

about it. It's just like, that's fact. This is my job. This is my career. If I wasn't good at it, I probably wouldn't have this job and it probably wouldn't be paying my mortgage. So good on you for doing you over there. I'm going to do me over here. And then here, we are inclusive. We are kind of our shit. So that's just kind of bottom line. That was like a might drop that only a black woman can do. You know what I'm saying? That was a classy read down. Yeah. It's like no dad coaches, GMs, presidents, or players know you exist? If not, like, okay. We're good. The Zippy.

So have you always wanted to be in this world specifically? Because I know you study broadcast journalism, right? I did. Yeah. I've always wanted to be in this world. Like, I grew up in Kansas City. My initials are Casey, and it was like very coincidental. I thought my parents were so smart for that.

So as a little girl, like I would see everybody with Kansas City sports gear, like the Royals and the Chiefs. And it was Casey was the logo. So I was like, wait, it's me. These are my teams. Like, I love that. is rooting for me. Egotistical only child over here. But I grew up going to Chiefs games and like feeling the energy of the sport and the camaraderie that came with football. So growing up,

I knew I wanted to be in broadcast journalism. And in my head, I was like, I either want to go the political route or I want to go the sports route. So I went to a performance right out of high school. TV production was my major in high school. And then went on to college, also majored in broadcast journalism, did the politics thing for one summer and turned in D.C. realized that was really crazy and football was probably a little bit more fun. And that's where I was like really head down. So from day one, I've always known that this is what I wanted to do. And while I love all sports, like football has always been my first love. I love the energy. I've loved the speed of the game. I love what the game stands for. And now is our games like expanding across the world,

I think we have such a powerful, incredible product that, like, it's the thing that gets people excited and, like, having a part of that in a climate, like we've said, at a political climate that can be really polarizing in a world that's now being driven by AI and all of these things. I'm like, one thing that no one can take away from us is the game of football. So being a part of that energy and that excitement is fun and it's really rewarding. And I've always been so laser focused on it. and I feel just, like, super blessed to have had the career I've had and the opportunities I've been given as well. That's amazing.

I think your story is super inspiring. I would like to know if there is any type of advice that you would give to a woman who would be interested in, like, following in your footsteps and taking a stab at this career path. Yeah, I think for me, it's not chasing the thing that seems glamorous or glitzy or fun. It's like chasing the why. It's chasing the passion. Football comes with incredible perks of girls. going to really incredible places and traveling and going to games and experience a Super Bowl

and all of these things. But in reality, that is like the smallest part of our job. Our job is the why. It's the research. It's the nitty gritty. It's understanding the game. It's understanding and amplifying the player voices, in my opinion. And understanding that why and why you want to get into a space is really, really, really important and special because it's easy to look at somebody's Instagram and see their highlight reel of the cute pictures on the sideline and think that's what you want to chase, but this is a grind. It is constant. It is never turning your brain off. I always get this question of people like, oh, it's the off season. Like, you guys don't have anything to do. It's like there is a calendar of football that is 365 days a year. And as long as

you understand that like you're committed to that grind and that's what you want to do, like find your niche once you get inside and just be relentless. Like once you do something and you shine a light on something in a way that no one else can, like, that light cannot be dim. No one can take that away. So it's finding the why, then being relentless while finding your niche and knowing that like you're going to own this space in a way that no one else can do. That's always kind of my main piece of advice. Don't just look at the highlight reel, understand the why. That's beautiful. Literally, that is quite like on the nose to the advice that I give to people who ask me about being in reality TV and producing for reality TV.

Because I'm like, I'm not going to post the long nights, the six days a week, the 72 hour weeks that I work. I'm not going to post that. I'm going to post me on the beach somewhere. But when you come into an industry like entertainment, you have to have a strong head and you have to know, like, this is why I'm here. And much of your point earlier, we're not saving people. We're not saving lives.

We're adding a little spark of joy somewhere. We're adding to dinner time conversations. It's not brain surgery. So is never that deep? It's never that deep. But it's still important. And it's like, if I wanted to have an easy job, I would have chosen something else. And that's the reality of it.

And it's like even looking at my schedule now, it's like, I have to understand. I may miss my daughter's first day at school. I may miss these, you know, holidays. I work on holidays. I miss that time away from my family. holidays look very very different like there is an enormous amount of sacrifice that comes with the decisions and i'm sure you feel the same way you know in terms of reality and entertainment television like there are sacrifices you make so don't let the glittery shit fool you it's still a grind

but if you're relentless about that pursuit and it sits in the center of like your actual passions and that's what you're supposed to do it's like i never want to feel like i'm doing a job i want to feel like i have an opportunity to make something better and that's how i approach my career and that's how I hope everybody approaches their career. I love that. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rink on Uber Eats.

But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice, yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday assignments. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region.

See app for details. Okay, Colties, you're going to want to stop what you're doing and listen very closely. Because Belessa and I are giving away spicy toys to every single one of you. That's right. Everyone who signs up wins something special. If you haven't already heard of Bolesa, let me turn you on to it. They're a by-women for-everyone company that's completely flipping the script on sexual wellness. And now they're hooking you up.

You've probably seen Bolesa's viral toys pop up on your for you page. The rose blew up for a reason. It's gorgeous. It's flower-shaped. It operates on suction. It's iconic. Their whisper collection, which is practically silent, is also famous, although quiet. I also recommend their strong, smart, and spicy pebble pro.

And of course, I had to hook all of you up. So my friends at Balesa and I are sending out free toys or gift cards to everyone who signs up. You heard that right. Every single one of you win something. Just click on the link in the episode description or head to BBVibs.com slash cult. That's BBV-I-B-E-S dot com slash C-U-L-T. B-BVibs.com slash C-U-L-T. Hey, sounds like a cult. My name is Bianca, and I'm calling from Raleigh, North Carolina. To me, the cultiest thing about fantasy football is just how brocoded everything is. So even if I'm a part of the league and I'm knowledgeable of the topic. I am not included in those conversations for the

fact that I am a woman and because I wasn't obsessed with football when I was at the right age of two. And when I try to go back, a new research to be able to partake in these conversations or make informed decisions about drafting choices, all of the information also happens to be very brocoded and layered in history. So I want to transition to talking a little. little bit about the sunk cost fallacy in fantasy football because it's arguably the psychological engine of the entire game imagine drafting a player early banking on them all season and even when they flop or get injured you just can't bench them why because you've invested heavily in draft picks

memory and ego that my friends is the sunk cost fallacy so sunk cost fallacy can be described as a psychological phenomenon where individuals continue a behavior or endeavor as a result of previously invested resources, albeit time, money, or effort, even if the current costs outweigh its benefits. So we've heard stories of fantasy leagues with $1,000 buy-ins, Vegas draft weekends, group chats that ruined friendships. Have you ever witnessed someone go full spiral or just couldn't let it go, even when it was clearly time for them to tap out. Yeah, of course. So we're going to football. And this is the story. And thankfully now things are great. But when Demar Hamlin, who played for the Buffalo Bills and still plays for the Buffalo Bills,

went down during that game against the Bengals, it was late in the season. And it was around the fantasy championships. So Colty's just for context. In January of 2023 during the Bills versus Bengals game, Buffalo Bills safety, Damar Hamlin suffered a hit to his chest. that caused his heart to stop. Subsequently, the medical staff stopped the game to try to revive DeMar on the field. He was then put into a medically induced coma for two days after being rushed to the hospital.

Damar, thankfully, made a full recovery and is still playing with the Buffalo Bills to this day. That game obviously ended and got canceled and was not rescheduled. That game did not count for that week. And my husband's fantasy league, he was in a championship playing against someone. And once the game was canceled, they had to tally the points of, you know, what the guys had scored in that game.

And I believe Joe Burrell and Jamar Chase, obviously, we're playing in that one. And then Josh Allen, like, those are the three players off the top of my head that were obviously a part of these rosters. And it was a very contentious situation because a team had won, but they did not feel as if it was fair because the game was canceled. But this was a championship game. I remember my husband's phone, like, and I'm like, what is going on? And he's like, yo, read these texts. And the group chat was white. And I'm like, y'all, we just saw a very scary situation on the field.

Like, this shit is not that serious. So that was the one time where I was like, you guys are taking it way too far. Like, let's just focus on the thing at hand, which is ensuring that his health is prioritized and that he is going to be okay. Like, I'm sure things will get rescheduled, like whatever. Like, it is not that serious. So that was the first time that I had like a close and personal kind of like relationship to seeing people just lose the plot.

I was like, y'all are lost in the sauce. We need to rewind and get back on board. And thank God, DeMar Hamlin made a full recovery, is back to playing football, like all things positive there. But that was an unprecedented situation for the league, for all of us, for us covering the game and knowing like how to talk about this situation and talk about kind of the scare that we just saw in the field. So, like, y'all's fantasy football is not real.

And on the same note, one thing I do want to say, because I've talked to players about this throughout the years, and we've also seen them be, like, very vocal on social. Do not tag and at these players if they haven't asked me. So many guys have been like, I do not care about your fantasy football league, and y'all need to stop tweeting at me, sending me messages, like, blowing me up.

Some of them love it and have their own leagues and drop themselves and, like, love the fun of it all. But another huge part of it is like, this is y'all's fake game. This is my real job. Like, leave me alone. So that's the other thing. Y'all need to not lose the plot by tagging players and going at them for having down leagues or not being as good as you thought they would be because they quite literally do

not care. They do not care. They're trying to make their own money. They're trying to stay a part of their own teams and make sure their contracts are good. Like, your fantasy football is not the top of it. Dude, thank you so much for sharing that. because I totally even forgot to ask that, but I always wondered, they hate it.

I mean, and some of them do like it. And they're like, oh, I only draft the guys from, you know, my squad, you know, whatever. And I love that. And there are some who like totally, and I'm sure they all grew up playing it. Like, it's a fun thing. But I think once you actually are in the game of yourself,

it probably takes a completely different tone. They don't want to hear about your fantasy football league because it's so inconsequential to their life. I think they like it when he shot them. out for good things, but, like, shouting them out for bad weeks, no boy, no. They already get enough hate, like, y'all don't need to add more fuel to the fire. I have seen people tweet the most unhinged things to these players. And I always wonder, like, do they care? That's crazy. Oh, wow. Okay, so listeners, if you hear that, don't do it. Don't do it. Please. Don't do it. So it wouldn't be

a sounds like a cold deep dive if we didn't tap into some of the tabloidy. scandals in the world of fantasy football. So let's rewind to 2015 when fantasy football's culty devotion crossed into full-blown financial scandal. Draft Kings and Fandual were booming, promising players bit cash for their fantasy expertise. But then it got shady. The New York Times broke a story revealing a draft king's employee won $350,000 on a fan duel contest the same week he accidentally leaked sensitive internal data. If that sounds like insider trading, it is. The FBI and the U.S. Department of Justice launched an investigation.

Regulators started asking whether Daily Fantasy was actually just unregulated gambling. Draft Kings launched an internal investigation and insisted the data leak was just a badly timed coincidence. But regulators weren't buying it. States like New York, Nevada, and Washington cracked down hard. Subsequently, employees were banned from entering rival contests and class action lawsuits rolled in from users claiming fraud and unfair play. What followed was a total legal shakeup. By 2017, most states had either banned or heavily regulated daily fantasy, and the 2018 Supreme Court decision legalizing sports betting nationwide shifted everything. By 2020, both Draft Kings and Fandul had gone.

full mask off, pivoting from just fantasy to official sports books, blurring the lines between harmless hobby and high-stakes gambling. So as daily fantasy platforms face lawsuits, regulations, and a full-on identity shift into high-stakes sports betting, the question became, what happens when all that risk leaves the app and enters people's actual lives? Kimmy, have you ever seen how this obsession with fantasy or sports betting starts to spill over into someone's relationships or even their reality? I mean, yeah. Unfortunately, I think we understand and as a society see kind of this is a very slope that

that exists within that space, which at the end of the day comes down to each individual person and their decision. But I'm like, with anything, I think there's a really fine line of it becoming fun and then it becoming obsessive and becoming an issue. thankfully no personal experiences of anyone close in my orbit who was taking it too far with sports betting or daily fantasy or kind of anything within that vein but it's a really fine line and you know as an NFL employee right like there are things that I can't even engage in in regards to daily fantasy or sports betting in any capacity whatsoever one I'm not a gambler I like my

money myself so I'm not trying to give it away for free in Vegas or anywhere but you know that's something that as a league employee with the access to the information that I have, I am not allowed to engage with that whatsoever. So I understand there's a fine line and it's up to each individual person at how risky they want to be. But that's where, you know, it's like, when does it stop becoming fun and when does it start becoming obsessive? Like that's a question that I think a lot of people have to ask. And I think there's so much good in the world. And I think understanding sports betting, it's a part of our culture. And we're seeing it grow, more and war and more and more. And I feel like you can bet on like if it's going to be a sunny day

or a rainy day at this point. Like we've incentivized our society in all of these ways to kind of have that obsessiveness. But it's interesting. And, you know, I'm like, it can be applied to AI. It can be applied to all of these things where it's like, where do these tools that originally are born out of a really good place? How do they take a turn? And where do they take a turn? And that's where I think it's a question more so of not the product itself, but like our society and the people and like our cultish behavior and our obsessive behavior. It's like that's why I think it's more of a sociology study of like how have we allowed ourselves to spiral in these ways as opposed to like being punitive to the games themselves or the platforms, which, you know,

I'm sure there's a lot of regulation that that goes on there and a lot of strategy behind it. But thankfully, I've never been exposed to it. And I don't have any really. relationships that in my orbit have had, you know, negative consequences, but it's very, very, very real and like, even anyone out there, if you need help with gambling, don't get help because it is very real. And like, back to what we've always said, like, is it that serious? Like, all of this is born out of an entertainment and something to, like, give people a sense of community. So if you're blurring those lines for bad and if you're blurring those lines to then teeter on like fucking up your own life, we've got to recalibrate and get back to our center of gravity. So, so. So thankfully, I've not seen it, but know that it exists and know that it's very, very real. And it's sad to kind of see that. But again, it's really dependent on the person. And that's where I'd love to go back to college and sit in a sociology class and break all of this down. Because it's something that our society grapples with in a ton of different ways.

So more cars to everyone who does it responsibly and does not lose the plot. But to those who do, like, you know, wishing well for people to get back to reality here. Yeah. I mean, it's capitalism. It's capitalism. It sits at the center of it. It's all the isms. It's really all the isms.

If we want to bring it down, we can add a few more isms in there. That's the root of so many things. Yep. So I have just one little anecdote from online that kind of relates to this. And the cult article entitled, I got divorced because of sports gambling. Danielle, a 39-year-old teacher from New York, recounts her story. Danielle thought she was building a life with someone. until she realized she was actually building a lie.

She met her now ex-husband Pete in college. They reconnected years later, fell in love, moved in together, got engaged, and started trying to have a baby. Along the way, Pete admitted to a past gambling problem, but he promised it was all behind him. He joined Gamblers Anonymous, got a sponsor, and for a while, everything seemed fine until it wasn't. Little signs started to appear.

Pete obsessing over sports, he never used to care about. His mood swings started with every game. Then came a suspicious cash advanced. And eventually the truth, Pete was deep in debt, not a few hundred dollars, $40,000 in mostly high interest lines of credit and loans he'd taken out behind her back. All to support a hidden gambling addiction. She found out the same day their second round of fertility treatments had filled. They'd been trying to build a family while she was still navigating the heartbreak of infertility.

He was secretly betting away their future. They divorced quickly. She gave him their last $20,000 in savings just so that he could survive. He moved back in with his mom. She kept the house and the car and later built a new life, remarried, and had a child. So I read this article and that story was just one of a few that was telling stories about how it started off as just a fun hobby. and then it became a slippery slope into something just a little bit more sinister, but it's just a consistent stark reminder of how something can start off so harmless

and then just transform into something else. But then, again, that's how cults work. It begins with community. It begins with routine. And before you know it, you're sacrificing your savings, your stability. And the most dangerous part is how normalized it can all seem. beginning. So that story was a little dark. No, I'm like, poor girl, she got up, though, but $20,000 or $20,000, she had to help him. I don't know. Why did she help him?

I wouldn't. I would sue him. I know. Yeah. Yeah. So him for damages. Lettons learn, though. We got to, we got to wish her well. She's free from that man. But he, he was in a call. He was in a call. That was false. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So I want to transition to something a little bit more fun and airy. And this game is called culty or committed? Okay. So I'm just going to rapid fire say these prompts of just random situations and you let me know if this is a little culty or it's it's just committed. Okay. I like this game. Let's go. Okay. So first, draft day PowerPoint presentations with animations and themed music.

Committed. That's so sweet. Somebody put a lot of effort into that. Okay. So, wearing the same Lucky Jersey every Sunday for 16 weeks straight. Do we wash it or not wash it? We do not wash it. Committed, but funky. That's very funky.

Doesn't Patrick Mahomes do something like that? He has a special, I think he wears a special, like, briefs, or he has some special he wears. So lucky draws. It's committed. Committed. People were online, like, does he watch the draws? I think he has enough money that he probably does watch the draws.

I feel like he would watch it. I feel like he would. And I feel like his wife would be like, hey, we should watch this. I feel like he definitely does. I think that's timidant. I know people who do exactly that. They like for breeze it and hang it up.

I think it's funky, but like, you do you. It's not mind-aware, you know? Like, I'm good. Okay. Fly to Vegas every year to do the draft live, even if you don't talk to these people for the rest of the year. Love, committed. I think that's fun.

Okay. I think. It's so fun. One time a year, it's not like it's, yeah, one time a year, I think that's too. Okay. Spending an entire lunch break, editing your draft strategy spreadsheet at your non-sports-related job. I'm going to say that's committed because work can be stressful. So if you want to spend your hour and la-la land, I more power to you.

I think that's sweet. I think so many things are sweet. I just, I root for people. I just try to see the good. This world is so damn stressful. Like, if making a PowerPoint with little animations makes you happy, like, Yes, it's sitting there eating a stale kale salad in a shitty office job with bad lights and editing a strategy makes you so good, like, more power cheap. Do you, boo-boo. Okay. Yeah. All right. So then my final one, declining a wedding or large event, RSVP, because they fall on the fantasy playoff weekend.

That's suspect. It's suspect. Committed, but super suspect. Like, if you were my home girl and you're not coming to my wedding because you or your man has a fantasy draft, like I'm looking. at you crazy. Kimmy? Auto draft exists. So that is funky and that's unquestionable. That would be a little culty. I would be offended. I would be sad.

Okay. So we have one. One. One that's culty. One that's a little off. But all of these power to you. Now, if these happen inside my home, I think it would have a different conversation, right? Like when it's strangers, I think it's one thing.

When it's like your person, that's when you're like, we should reass out and like sit down with a marriage. counselor or something, I don't know. But I would find looking in, via all these strangers, good for them. But don't bring that stuff over here by me. Period. Same. Okay.

So now we've reached a part in our episode where we have to deliver our verdict. Okay. So based on our three coat categories, live your life, watch your back, or get the fuck out. Where do you think fantasy football falls in? I think it's live your life. I think it's 100% live your life. Have fun. Do you celebrate it? Watch yourself if you are engaging in ways that seem a low, cray, cray, and maybe have a trusted advisor or a friend who is not scared to check you. But I, in my unbiased, of all, opinion, think it's live your life. Yes. But what do you think? Okay. I'm going to say watch your back. Exactly for the reason that you stated. Because, yes, enjoy yourself. Like we said, like this world needs a little bit of fun and community and all the things. However, comma, it's a slippery slope, it can get a little dangerous when you start, you know, adding money when money gets involved.

So she's going to say, watch it back a little bit. Fair, fair, fair. I love this. I love this for us. And a lot of time to get the fuck out. We are so good. Yes. Oh, no.

Absolutely. Girl, come on. Okay. First of all, I just want to say thank you so much for joining us for this episode today. It was super, super fun. If any of the listeners want to, like, follow you on any socials, can you plug yourself for me? Oh, my God. Yeah, please plug away.

I'm at Kimi-Chek, so at K-I-M-M-I-C-H-E-X. My fantasy football team name is Checks Overstrike, the H-E-X Everstrikes. Very cute. But Kimmy checks on everywhere on social. So I'll make sure you tap into the NFL network all season long. So follow along all season. And when you get your cult fantasy football league up and running with some listeners, you've got to tap me in.

Tap me in. I got to come join or just follow. So this was so fun. Thank you. I'm very happy. We have decided that it's a little bit of watch your back, but a lot of, like, live your life and not so fun. And maybe we've encouraged somebody to play fantasy because it is a very good time.

Low stakes, fun, community, shit talking, and enjoy watching football. Dog, you need to, like, I don't know, if you ever wanted to, career in sales. Listen, mama. I got it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. My next career. I've already started. Perfect. Well, Coltis, thanks so much for listening. Join us for a new episode next week. And in the meantime, stay Coltie. But not too culty. and edited by Jordan Moore of the Podcabin. This episode was produced and hosted by Chelsea Charles. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson.

Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book, Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, The Age of Magical Oversinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and Word slut, A Feminist, to taking back the English language. Thanks as well to our Network Studio 71. And be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram

for all the discourse at Sounds Like a Cult pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad-free at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult. Okay, Colties, you're going to want to stop what you're doing and listen very closely. Because Belessa and I are giving away spicy toys to every single one of you. That's right, everyone who signs up wins something special.

If you haven't already heard of Bolesa, let me turn you on to it. They're a by-women for-every-one company that's completely flipping the script on sexual wellness. And now they're hooking you up. You've probably seen Bolesa's viral toys pop up on your for-you page. The rose blew up for a reason. It's gorgeous. It's flower-shaped. It operates on suction.

It's iconic. Their whisper collection, which is practically, silent is also famous, although quiet. I also recommend their strong, smart, and spicy pebble pro. And of course, I had to hook all of you up. So my friends at Belessa and I are sending out free toys or gift cards to everyone who signs up. You heard that right. Every single one of you win something. Just click on the link in the episode description or head to bbibes.com slash cult. That's bbvibes.com slash c-u-l-t. B-B-B-Vibybes.com slash see you l t love is blind love island the bachelor the ultimatum sex in the city bridgerton white lotus

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