Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Hallmark Christmas Movies

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

It's officially Countdown to Cultmas! Make yourself a falalatte and keep your expectations for plot continuity ho-ho-low because this week, Chelsea, Reese, and Amanda are uniting for a guffaw-worthy 'sode on the escapist seasonal "cult" that is Hallmark Christmas Movies. These cheesy made-for-TV treats may look utterly innocent on the outside, but when you unpack the extreme parasocial idol worship of Hallmark's recurring stars, its tent revival-esque conventions, nostalgic-to-a-fault themes, and problematic practices that have led to major legal trouble, that egg nog starts to taste a little more like Kool-Aid (can we say that?). Tune in for lols and analysis as your hosts attempt to figure out if this jingle-jangly franchise is high-key sinister, or if we're just being dramatic. 🎄📺🍪🌟🎁 Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod @amanda_montell @reesaronii @chelseaxcharles Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on YouTube! Thank you to our sponsors!  Go to BlueNile.com to shop the original online jeweler since 1999! Get Up to $100 off Litter-Robot bundles and an additional $50 off when you go to stopscooping.com/SLAC. Go to squarespace.com/CULT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Start earning points on rent you’re already paying by going to joinbilt.com/CULT

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host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Some people of a certain demographic will put on the Hallmark channel almost 24-7 for like the entire month of December and just numb out to it and have that be like the soundtrack of their life and thoughts as a way to kind of like disengage from anything deeper. That is a privilege. Exactly.

I think it can be a little culty. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host, Amanda Montell, and I'm an author. I'm your co-host, Chelsea Charles, an unscripted producer. And I'm Reese Oliver, Sounds Like a Cult's coordinator and also your co-host. Every week on this show we discuss a different fanatical fringe group from the cultural zeitgeist, from corporate America to Catholic school to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really?

Is it really? And if so, which of our cult categories does it fall into? Live your life, watch your back, or get the fuck out? After all, not every culty semen group is equally destructive. The point of this show is to scrutinize how cultist influence shows up in everyday life, to poke a little bit of fun at human search for meaning, and to critique how power abuse shows up in places you might not think to look. Like nostalgia, escape this media,

and Christmas conventions? My bells have been jingled. Oh my god, ew. Oh man, Chelsea, you didn't even know this, but Casey has actually composed on a few Hallmark Christmas movies. Of course he has. For those who are new here or who only half listen as they're doing their laundry, Casey is my partner and the composer of the Sounds Like a Cult theme music, Ikonik, and he composes

for other things too. He composes for other things too. He composes for other cringey things as well. He makes a mean little coffee drink. Yeah, yeah. He's also part-time barista. Don't worry about it. Yeah, he has composed on a few Hallmark Christmas movies, which is a really important job because if you were ever to watch a Hallmark Christmas movie without any music, it would be a hundred times more cringe.

Yeah, terrifying. No, the magic is in the music. Yeah, well, yes. It's so beautiful. I cannot believe I know the person. It's a matter. That's amazing. Yeah, you've been interacting with him.

Isn't he humble? He is so humble. What is each of your relationship to Hallmark Christmas movies as an American pastime, as a piece of media, as a cult? Okay, so listen, I haven't watched a Hallmark movie in a long time, but it used to be a part of my Christmas tradition growing up. My mom is cheesy. Okay, she leans into the cheese.

And so I grew up watching Hallmark movies. I think they get you in the spirit. I used to watch Hallmark movies and claymation. Oh, like the Rudolph store or like Santa Claus is coming to town. Is that what it's called? I think so. Yeah. Does it call you better watch out? What about you, Reese? So I kind of missed the boat on the whole Hallmark thing,

growing up at least. I've seen a couple of the newer era streaming garbage Christmas movies instead of the cable garbage Christmas movies, if that makes sense. Oh yes, like Netflix, Vanessa Hudgens Christmas movies. Are those Christmas movies, the Princess Protection Program?

That's something else. Leave her name out of your mouth. You take that back. That is a cold, cold touchstone of our generation. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. No, Vanessa Hudgens is definitely in a Christmas movie. It was something Princess related. I know for sure I watched the Lindsay Lohan one

that she did recently. Oh my god, same. Because the only movie I have seen that is worse was I Know Who Killed Me, also starring Lindsay Lohan. Yeah, but I'm so glad she's doing better. Yeah, same! Oh, and we'll get there, but when it comes to Hallmark Christmas movies specifically,

and I guess this trend has extended to Netflix, I do feel like there is something culty and manipulative about taking advantage of child stars and bear hugging them into starring in your network Christmas movies. Like, isn't there something sinister there? Yes, it's very depressing. Okay, so we're doing the cult of our Christmas movies, okay?

And we're hyper caffeinated. Casey has made us fall out. Fall out. Fall out. Fall out. Go ahead, girl. You can, that was good. Thank you.

It's been a few hours since I had mine, so I really needed you for the assist on that one. Damn, that was good. It's been a few hours since I had mine, so I really needed you for the assist on that one. Damn, that was good. It's been a few hours since I had mine, so I really needed you for the assist on that one.

Damn, that was good. It's been a few hours since I had mine, so I really needed you for the assist on that one. Damn, that was good. It's been a few hours since I had mine, so I really needed you for the assist on that Christmas movie watching in part because it was like a sort of Jewish home but like Christmas loving we went ham for Christmas like rest assured but we are 1960s Frosty the snowman folks. Okay got it. That's more where my family is like my dad has the TV program to turn on to the Turner Classic Movies Channel. Oh beautiful beautiful okay we were requested, nay demanded, to do an episode on the cult of Hallmark Christmas movies, I would say last Christmas season. And I mean, when the request came through,

I was like, how on earth could this possibly be appropriate for Sounds Like a Cult? But of course, a Google or two opened up a wormhole into the cult universe that is Hallmark Christmas movies. The spirit has moved us to do it this year. We're in the Christmas spirit. Yes, so Hallmark Christmas movies are recognized, beloved, worshiped and censured for a few specific qualities.

They are tropy as hell. Their plot lines are full of holes. They are corny. The acting is mid at best. They are the, you know, dare I say, hallmark greeting card of films known for being cliche, cheesy, and comforting. You know, something that you can rely upon every year. And don't worry, we will get into the general cult of escapist media later. Is it dangerous? Is it soothing? Is it both?

How so? So some of the most popular Hallmark Christmas movies are An Unexpected Christmas, Let It Snow, Three Wise Men and a Baby, Switched for Christmas. Sure. That's the one that Casey worked on, Switched for Christmas.

Oh wow. Lights, Camera, Christmas, Marry Me at Christmas, and Christmas Under Rats. I like completely fell asleep as you were listing them because they all have the same name. Yep. And that is the point. Christmas, Christmas, Christmas. To get those who may be familiar, but mostly those who may not be familiar with how this media franchise can be culty, let's provide a bit of history. So the history of the Hallmark Channel begins in the early 90s. After it was originally part of the American Christian television system and the Vision Interfaith satellite network, it was rebranded as the Faith and Values channel. Later, it was acquired by Liberty Media. It undergoes yet another rebrand to the Odyssey network, and this is where they start to phase out of the explicitly religious programming and into the more family-oriented programming. Soon after, the Jim Henson Company

acquires the network in 1998, and they begin forcing a hard push for more romantic films and more comedies themed more specifically around holidays throughout the year. So the channel begins producing original holiday movies in the early 2000s. They gain a lot of popularity and around 2009, Hallmark launches its holiday initiative titled Countdown to Christmas. This is nostalgic for me. I do remember these commercials.

They were everywhere. Dude, the shiver of nostalgia. Yeah. God damn, I love Christmas. I fucking love it. Yeah. No, it is a joyful time. It is a joyful time.

Nothing gets people excited quite like a countdown. It's so simple. It's so reliable. I know what number comes next. It is closer to one than I want it to be. I am here. Well, there's so little that unites us anymore except counting.

Countdowns. Counting down to Christmas is something we can all do together. Yeah, and counting down is even more reliable than counting up. So true. A countdown is so much easier. At a point, numbers get confusing.

So the anticipation, the anticipatory energy of a countdown really hooked people in, became largely popular among viewers. So not only is Hallmark playing into the Christmas movie craze, but they kind of invented the modern Christmas movie boom. At least that I would say. Allegedly. Allegedly, allegedly. And yes, Amanda, as you said, these films have a loyal following, mostly because they are just comfort food for your eyes and ears and senses. They have no nutritional or educational value.

But boy, oh boy, do they make me feel nice. Yeah, until they don't. Until they don't. That's the gotcha gotcha. And the last, and what I find to be the most entertaining, uniting aspect of Hallmark Christmas films and movies of the like is that they are all extremely low budget.

Most of them are made for under $2 million, which I was actually speaking with Casey about this earlier. A lot of very tight turnarounds for all of the artists involved in the productions of these movies, which results in a lot of like mediocre work. Not saying that Casey's work is mediocre. It's not. Casey, you're great. But just a lot of very tight turnarounds produces a lot of soulless work. It's truly very entertaining and it results in films that get streamed insanely. According to a 2021 Forbes piece on the economics of Hallmark Christmas movies by Tony Fitzgerald, during the Christmas movie season, more than 80 million people watch at least a few minutes of a Hallmark movie. Most weeks in November and December, Hallmark

ranks as the number one network among the advertiser-friendly demographics of women aged 18 to 49 and women 25 to 54. This means that the channel can charge premium pricing on advertising as it connects with an in-demand audience at a time when this group is increasingly fragmented. No one buys shit like Millennial Women, dude. No. That's why there are so many ads on this podcast. Skim. My house is covered in liquid IV. Did you see it at the Halloween party? I did see the liquid IV. I was like, look at her, that's so sweet and wholesome.

It's like the people who leave out Narcan at parties. Well, I wanted people to be hydrated and I have too much of it. The liquid IV, do you want some right now? Zero sugar, lemon, lime lime, classic holiday delight. No, sorry. Ho, ho, ho. Previous estimates, continuing that quote from Forbes, have found that the Hallmark

Channel generates a third of its annual ad revenue just from Christmas movies. That equates to more than $350 million. Yeah, there is no reason to spend more than $ million dollars on these films when you're generating those kinds of A third of your revenue for the year being made because of one day like I know that's a massive Oversimplification I have a tendency to do that. How dare I yeah don't oversimplify the birth of Christ race So it's obviously extremely profitable despite or actually because of the quality being so predictable and vanilla. Could you unpack the sort of culty undertones of that dynamic a little bit for us, Chelsea. Yeah, sure. So according to The Looper in an article titled, Why People Love Hallmark Movies So Much,

explained by science. What an interesting title. This is science. Pamela Rutledge, a director of the Media Psychology Research Center and Media Psychology faculty at Fielding Graduate University, explains that the familiar fairy tale like structure in Hallmark movies with clear moral lines and happy endings offers reassurance

during a stressful time. She says, Hallmark movies take some of the edge off. They may not be intellectually stimulating, but that's a big part of the appeal. God damn it, Pamela. Yeah. Did you like, I remember there was like a New Yorker piece, I think, that came out right after the first season of Emily in Paris premiered, sort of unpacking the phenomenon of ambient TV. Now this is something we totally accept ambient TV is like a defined genre. It's probably going to be a fucking category at the Golden Globes.

Right, right, right. Best ambient actress, best actress to half watch while you scroll through Instagram. Like nobody's allowed to watch them as they accept their award. And they just like have to do something else. But like at the time people were finally quantifying. What is this phenomenon that so many of us know and crave, wherein we just kind of want something to drown out our sorrow and internal monologue, like the drama of reality. I feel like Hallmark was very early to capitalize on that sort

of craving that I feel like is so distinct to the sort of excess of media that exists now, you know? I agree. I do feel like there is something to be said about, and we'll talk a little bit about this later, the escapist aspect of Hallmark movies in general, because like think about COVID or think about the BLM marches. We were collectively going through something together and everything was so, so heavy. And there was something special about me being able

to turn on Emily in Paris. And the shit is, first of all, take a shot every time we say cheesy or cringe, but there's something about leaning into something that was so cheesy and it wasn't deep that gave me a sense of solace. I'm like, I don't have to watch the news and care about shit that's going on, which is sad, but you know.

I feel like that's reality TV for a lot of people. A lot of people turn reality TV on for that same, like, I can just not think about this and not feel pressure to be intelligent or have an impact on the world for the hour that this is on. Yes, absolutely. Well, because there's more pressure than ever to have an immediately eloquent and perfectly correct take on complex social dynamics, I guess you could say, when shit is going down culturally and to hold our media to a really high standard when it comes to addressing those dynamics responsibly and to have a whole category of television that is exempt from

that and that we all get to surrender. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Surrender, surrender. Oh my God, we were just talking about this term before we started recording. Surrender is like such a recurrent term in cult power dynamics, you know? It's like, don't think about it too hard. It's indulgent and it's like relieving you of the burden of choice. Like don't you feel a bit relieved of the burden of choice when you put on Hallmark and it's just, this is okay.

Cause this is the other thing that Casey was saying. I feel like he's the ghost of Christmas present in this episode. I actually love that right now. He's like the fucking wizard Kelly and I'm obsessed. I love it so much. So funny, but like I was asking him earlier what he thinks is the cultiest thing about Hallmark movies as one of the cult's invisible beneficiaries. And he was talking about how like he finds it culty, but in a live your life way, no spoilers, how some people of a certain demographic, this highly advertised to demographic will put on the Hallmark channel almost 24 seven for like the entire month of December and just numb out to it and have that be like the soundtrack of their life and thoughts as a way to kind

of like disengage from anything deeper. That is a privilege. Exactly. That is a privilege to be able to do that. But I can't say that I don't understand that in a way. Well, because how have you engaged? You mentioned that you watched Hallmark movies a bit growing up. But like when you look at the escapist media and the ambience

and like using this sort of nostalgic comfort watch as a way to not have to reckon with the overwhelm of this time. Like when do you think it goes from innocent entertainment to something cultier than that? So to your point, I will say that that is where the cognitive dissonance comes into play because you are intentionally ignoring everything that's is where the cognitive dissonance comes into play because you are intentionally ignoring

everything that's happening in the world. That means that you obviously know that shit is going on, but you're choosing, choosing to say, oh, okay. I want to be a part of this very safe, predictable world. Right, which like not everybody gets to make that choice. Exactly. I feel like this is another one of those things where as long as you're like honest with yourself

about what you're partaking in and you're intentional about your escapism, there is a way to engage with it healthily for sure. But I do feel like leaving it on constantly and just allowing a holiday to make December not a real month for you feels like a cop out from real life. Yeah. And I find it a little annoying.

I appreciate the festivity and I love that you love things and I love when people love things. But like, yeah. And this is why this cult reminds me in some ways of Disney adults. I was gonna say the same thing. Yeah, well because I learned a little bit while I was researching say the same thing. Yeah, well because I mean, I learned a little bit while I was researching the cultural role

that nostalgia plays in America specifically for the age of magical overthinking. I was like reading some literature about the intention behind the construction of Disneyland. And Disneyland was constructed in the 1950s during the civil rights movement. And it was like kind of a way to give, I don't know, like fucking Lily White suburbanites a utopia outside the complexities and social movements that were

like reshaping America in a very necessary way. And so from one angle, you can look at Disneyland and be like, it's so pleasant. It's so fun. it's harmless. But if you look at it from a slightly different angle, you're like, this is masking some pretty ugly cultural impulses that certain privileged Americans have. And so I don't know if it's just like my personal taste. I tend to not excuse it, but like, I tend to want to give the Disney adult of it all a little bit more grace just because people are so hard on Disney adults.

It is already not only mainstream, but a cultural demand to hate Disney adults, but there are a lot of subcultures. Which is why we came on the mic today. Yeah, yeah, literally. No, exactly, I was gonna say, there are a lot of problematic, nostalgic subcultures in the US that are equally deserving of scrutiny.

Yes. Let's redistribute our haterade equally. Yeah, give everyone a drop. What flavor of haterade do you think we're distributing to Hallmark Christmas movies? Cranberry. Yeah. Pickle.

Sugar plum. But and butter, pickle. Bread and butter, pickle. Are those a Christmas movie thing? My grandmother buys bread and butter during the holiday season. I've never heard of this. I have no idea why. That is vision, okay?

It's disgusting. That is unique. Yeah. And now a quick word from our cult followed sponsors who make the show possible. If you're looking to add a little bit of sparkle to your holiday season and who in their right mind isn't, may I please suggest doing so at bluenile.com? Okay, Bluenile offers some of the highest quality standards in the jewelry industry at prices significantly below traditional retail. Jewelry can be tough to pick out as a gift, even for yourself. But if you have questions

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and an additional $50 off when you go to stopscooping.com slash SLAC. Stopscooping.com slash SLAC stop scooping.com slash SLAC. Okay. Now in case folks are tuning into this episode, no doubt ambienly, truly still unfamiliar with the experience of watching a hallmark movie or the types of imagery and tropes and plot lines to be expected in these films, Chelsea, could you break it down?

Yes. So according to this Vulture article, the 10 essentials of any Hallmark Christmas movie, here's some things that you can typically find in a Hallmark movie. A 90s actress you almost forgot about. Yes, before we started recording, we were talking about the empire that Lacey Chabert,

that is how you pronounce her name, right? Lacey Chabert. I feel like not quite remembering how to pronounce the actor's name is also a part of it. Lacey Chabert stands Hallmark movie moms. Correct us in the comments if we're mispronouncing the Queen's name. Respectfully. You put the emphasis on the wrong syllable. It's Chabert.

It's Chabert. Chabert. Yeah. Chabert. Chabert. Shabair. K-fabe. I'm like, I'm getting process on the wrong syllable. You know me in word jokes. You got me. Yeah. Lacey Shabair, Gretchen Wieners from Mean Girls turned Hallmark Christmas movie Anjanu. And then of course we've got the other leading lady, Candace Cameron-Buray from Full House. Full House. Thank you. I own all eight seasons on DVD. It

was a hyper fixation of mine as a child. Oh my God. Lordrop about Reese. I used to just get up really early for no reason. And that was always what was on at like 5 AM. You still get up really early. I do. I'll like text her from a totally wacky time zone. She's always awake. She's like, I'm here. Candace Camry-Bray, yeah, of Full House fame. She is now a cult leader in her own right because of this Hallmark empire, but we'll get to that later. Anyway, Chelsea, please. A hot actor you probably don't know.

A town with a dumb name. Rude. That's my favorite thing. Some examples are Hollyvale, North Dakota. Sure. Homestead, Iowa. Garland, Alaska. Wow.

What are some other tropes? A failing family business. A dead spouse. A supernatural element that changes everything. Oh, right. The supernatural elements. I forget about that. Okay. So, okay.

I did watch one recently starring Tamera Mari from the infamous Tia and Tamera Mari. And the supernatural element was that she jumped on a merry-go-round and it created an alternate universe that was like five years prior. It was the cutest, the cutest little thing where she could like rewrite her story by going back in time and just making a different decision. I don't know, it was dope. So you loved it.

Wait, so, but okay, I made mention of this earlier, but like, do you think it's fair to speculate that there is something manipulative going on with like the extremely consistent pattern of former child stars starring in these films? And like, I don't know if this is the right instinct, but a part of me feels as though Hallmark might be kind of prey on these people. Well, because the kind of people who are the demographics that the Hallmark movies target are probably the kind of people who love and identify with these same actors.

So they know that these are big name polls for these audiences. OK, OK. It is, again, a nostalgic. Yeah, I think specifically for the Tamara of it all, though, it is definitely more of the nostalgic because quite as it's kept, Tamara, she didn't need this role. Tamara, although she hasn't been in like the scripted world, she is on the real.

And so she could very much say, you know, I never have to act again. But first of all, Tamara has always been allegedly the cheesier twin. So I kind of feel like. Yes, I forgot about that. Yeah, it fits her vibe. Okay, so you think she's in on the joke.

Absolutely, a thousand percent she's in on it. Okay, okay, so it's great. It's fun for her, it's not highly pressurized. I mean, I feel like, again, this is Netflix, not Hallmark, but the Lindsay Lohan stuff felt high stakes. It felt like a comeback was riding on it. For sure, because it is kind of a very safe comeback because you kind of absolve yourself from any criticism

when you contractually agree to make something kind of bad. Yeah, no, I love that. I wish people would lower their expectations of us. Just like expect it's going to be bad and you'll be delighted. Okay, I got it. For me, in my mind, I was like these production companies like Hallmark or Lifetime or Netflix are looking to exploit vulnerable out of work actors to just like grind out film after film after film. And yes, probably like there is some of that going on, but it is a mutually beneficial arrangement.

I agree. And I will also take it a step further and say that I get into these arguments all the time surrounding taste and taste is subjective as fuck. Yeah. And we can sit around and talk about how something surrounding taste and taste is subjective as fuck. And we can sit around and talk about how something is cheesy. It's not deep and it's not this, but it is all those things for someone else.

And I have debates with my mom a lot about like Tyler Perry films sometimes. And I'm like, this is bad. It's a little bad. There's a hole in this story and that's going to irritate me because there's a missing link here. But there is a demographic of people that fucking love that shit.

Yeah. I personally have a really strong delineation in my head between movies I like and movies I think are really good. Those two things are not mutually inclusive, right? Okay, but I feel like a lot of people who are maybe more casual film enjoyers They don't feel the need to make that delineation Therefore if they like watching something and it gives them a good Christmas feeling why wouldn't they call it a good movie? It achieved what they wanted it to right? Right? Yeah, yeah. It would be maybe not good, but like successful in accomplishing its aims. Yes.

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Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Joinbuilt.com slash Colt to start earning points on your rent payments today. If you're a fan of true crime, mystery, and or period pieces, then I have the perfect iPhone game to recommend to you. It's called June's Journey, and it follows this bold young protagonist named June as she goes to uncover her family's scandalous secrets at her sister's estate.

When you play this game, you get to escape reality and immerse yourself in a gripping tale of mystery, murder, and romance, where every clue brings you closer to the truth. My absolute favorite thing about June's journey is how beautiful it is. It takes place in the 1920s, and as you go along the plot, uncovering these clues to solve the mystery of the game, you get to decorate the island and it is very

aesthetic. I love to play this game when I kind of need to wind down to distract my brain to self-soothe. It's relaxing, it's intriguing, and if you're a fan of this podcast, I really think you'll like the game. Can you unmask the truth? Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android. So speaking of the tropes in Hallmark movies, I want to get a little bit into the reoccurring motif of this episode, and that is escapist media to help us draw a better conclusion on this cult analysis. Yes, please.

According to this opinion-based expose in Redwood Bark entitled, How Pop Culture Has Pitted Sexuality According to this opinion-based expose in Redwood Bark entitled, How Pop Culture Has Pitted Sexuality and Religion Against Each Other, escapist media can be defined as the following things. One, predictable storylines, we know that already. Idealized settings, simple conflicts and resolutions and emotional relief. So much to the point that we were talking about earlier,

it's the feeling of you know already how this shit is gonna end. Someone's gonna find their Prince charming. Emphasis on Prince charming, you know what I'm saying? And yeah, there's just something about knowing how something is gonna end that provides a sense of like, I'm safe here. Yeah, I'm a huge, this is controversial.

I'm a huge spoiler consumer. I love spoilers. If I'm watching a movie, like depending on what it is, like sometimes I do like to surrender and go in blind if that's the theme. We keep mentioning it, surrender. But I love to read the entire plot beforehand and know everything so that way I don't have to use my brain figuring out the plot

and I can just use all of my brain to like appreciate the movie. It's like I get the second watch experience on the first watch. She's a preparer, she loves to prepare. I hate this. I do feel like I'm cheating a little bit. I'm cheating a little bit, I will admit that.

I'm getting a second watch experience on the first watch. Oh my God. I don't know if I could do that. It's not for everyone. What about you? It depends. No, I don't like spoilers. I think as you get older,

there's like less and less novelty in this life. You know what I mean? And I'm just constantly trying to perceive things as new and exciting. So spoilers sort of compromise that pursuit. You know what I'm saying? So I don't wanna give myself any excuse not to have that experience of novelty and surprise.

I get that. Well, you know what it is? I was traumatized by a spoiler when I was in high school. I binged Dexter during a snowstorm when I was traumatized by a spoiler when I was in high school. I binged Dexter during a snowstorm when I was 17, the first like four seasons or something. And I accidentally saw a promo that revealed the death of an important main character before I was ready to know that, before I watched the episode. And I think that turned me off spoilers for life. So I really appreciate a spoiler alert.

Yeah, that would have sent me over the edge. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah. Thank you for understanding. Okay. So I feel like we've done a pretty thorough excavation of the escapism of it all and what allures people to the cult of Hallmark Christmas movies. but I think it's time to talk about how this community manifests. Because, I mean, not all Hallmark enthusiasts are just like privately enjoying this content in their sweet little candy cane decorated home. A community has emerged surrounding this shit

and it can get a little frightening. So let's talk about what makes the Hallmark community culty. So we've already talked about how like being a Hallmark fan can give you a sense of belonging, it can unite people over a shared interest, but some people take this shared interest really, really far and that manifests in the form of conventions.

So there is something called Christmas Con. It is an annual fan convention celebrating Hallmark Channel's Christmas movies and it attracts these most devoted acolytes. You've got your fan meet and greets, you've got your panel discussions, you've got your themed activities and it is not the only Hallmark themed convention that exists. I wanted to understand a little bit more what it actually feels like to be at one of these events and how power is distributed there. And so I found this piece, this E-online piece titled, We Hung Out with Hallmark Channel Stars and Their Fans and We'll Never Be the Same.

And in it, they detailed the experience of going to one of these hallmark conventions called RamaCon. Okay. Romancecon, Ramacon. I think it's supposed to be a play on Romcom. Yeah. Okay. Now I'm like fucking paranoid about how to pronounce all of these names because of fucking Saul. Oh my God. Saul. Look, we have to address it.

Look, when we recorded our Cult of Costco episode the other week, we pronounced the founder of Costco as Sol Price instead of Saul Price as a nickname for Solomon. Okay. Someone was like, it's Solomon. How dare you? I'm not going to lie.

I felt a little stupid, but it played into my whole thing and I loved it. And I was like, oh, so take your soul. It's a cult. Let us have a little fun. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I'm gonna be like, it's called Roma con. It's called Roma con. They're like, clearly they're now.

You're all so dense. We need this to like Google a little better. No, we try our best y'all truly. Okay. Cause listen, when you have a tiny team and everyone on it has another full-time job and you're under contract to make a weekly doggone podcast, look, sometimes shit goes to air that's a little fucked up.

Okay, we do our best and we're sorry about it, but look, if you just treat Sounds Like a Cult like a Hallmark Christmas movie, you know, just silly vibes and plot holes. Then maybe we can all recalibrate our expectations and be much happier. They gotta calm down, man. Calm down, it's okay, the stakes are low,

the stakes are ho, or ho, the stakes are ho, ho, low. Ooh, that's good. She's okay. Podcast haters are getting gold this year. Yeah. Anyways, we're not bitter. We're not. It's just funny to make fun of you also.

Making fun of us. Making fun of us. So it's just a bit of, it's family banter. Yeah. Sounds like a cult family is full of drama. Can you imagine if we were all at a Christmas dinner together? That's such a culty thing you just said! So I wanted to know what really went down at one of these

Ramacons and I learned a bit of background. The first one of these conventions was held in 2020. A culty time. We were in COVID times. It was held in Palm Beach, Florida. What? A culty place Palm Beach, Florida. What a culty place. A culty time, a culty place. There were 5,000 attendees. The author of this piece, Tierney Bricker, cool name, she attended one of these events and she said, what heightens the fanaticism ultimately are the actors,

the stars of these Hallmark films, who have all amassed their own devoted fan base after entering long-term creative partnerships with the network. So there is like a Lacey Chabert cult. There is a Dallas Cameron cult. Candice Cameron Bure. Candice Cameron Bure cult.

Each of these actors, because they appear so frequently in these different franchises, start to develop a sort of parasocial cult of their own. One of these actors, whose name is Andrew Walker, in these different franchises start to develop a sort of parasocial cult of their own. One of these actors whose name is Andrew Walker, he has starred in 19 Hallmark films. He told this reporter that he was basically stunned by the audience's consistent fanaticism. He said, quote, I knew we were a part of a very special community when around eight to 10 movies

in where it felt like even if I did a bad movie, people would still support me. Even if I felt super critical about the performance I put out, people would still be like, Andrew, you were great, I loved that movie. So there's something very cult-like about this larger than life cult worship figure who can do no wrong.

You just like accept absolutely everything he says, does, performs, no notes do no wrong. You just like accept absolutely everything he says, does, performs, no notes, no criticism. You know, the performances are so sort of vanilla that you can project whatever you want to see onto them. This person is your sort of, you know, parasocial boyfriend of sorts. That is a sort of cult leader, cult follower dynamic.

So that's interesting. And it makes me want to know the perspective of the actors and how they're able to like move in the world because bringing it back to Disney World. When you go and you meet Snow White, they're in character, right? Like obviously we see Snow White in the movie. You fall in love with Snow White and then you see her in person and she's still the character. So when you go to these conventions, you gotta be the guy from the movie. Yeah. They probably have to do a lot of sort of

compartmentalization and persona work. The culty parasocial dynamics are really interesting when it comes to these escapist comfort watches, because in reading between the lines of this piece, it kind of seemed like these actors felt some amount of pressure, maybe not like a torturous amount of pressure, to live up to probably impossible expectations

to interact with fans, many of whom are going through extreme life difficulties. So these actors who are in these television movies are spending their entire day back to back interfacing with folks who have like really deep relationships with them who are saying things like, you got me through cancer or you got me through clearing out my dead mother's house. Like that's a lot of pressure to live up to. I think with Hallmark Christmas movie stars, because they appear in so very many films.

And because the films are not that challenging, and because they are comforting, that sense of intimacy can get extreme. Does that make sense? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I think it can be a little culty, because you have this already established,

it's a one-sided relationship that you have with this person and as the actor, people feel entitled to you and you feel a sense of responsibility to kind of play into that. So that's a little sus. Yeah, and I think there's the added dimension of the holidays being a really difficult

and sometimes traumatic time for a lot of people. And to have essentially what the Gen Zers would refer to as like brain rot content to tune into and like tune out of the world and escape into. And if you're consuming a lot of that content and it is all the same like four or five people, these people are going to be so like, I don't know, like getting through tough lifetimes with four people you don't actually know and settings that you can predict immediately. I don't know, like getting through tough lifetimes with four people you don't actually know in settings that you can predict immediately. I don't know, just. I don't know that a therapist would endorse it.

Yeah, yeah. Yes. It almost feels like these character AI websites where it's like. I was just thinking. Yeah, and I know this kind of contradicts what I said earlier about engaging with something intentionally, but I do think there's a point

where that also becomes unhealthy. Yeah, and I think for the most part, these actors are not necessarily taking advantage of that or exploiting it in a destructive way. I can think of one exception to that, but we will get to that later. Just a bit more about what it feels like to be at one of these conventions. The organizers really lean into the sense of ritual and liturgy that exists there, making these Hallmark conventions feel somewhat akin to like a tent revival or Mary Kay conference. The author of this E! Online piece said,

"'Basically you can call yourself a Hallmark movie lead "'and live out your fantasy for the weekend.'" With specifically curated experiences like, "'The chance to perform a scene with an actor, "'cariarchy night, and health and wellness sessions. "'Rama Drama offers fans With specifically curated experiences like the chance to perform a scene with an actor, karaoke night, and health and wellness sessions, Rama Drama offers fans the ability to live their dreams. One of the convention's organizers, Gabrielle Graf Palmer, explains, this is not your standard

pipe and drape convention. Rama Drama guests walk away with so much more than an autograph and a selfie. We are helping them create memories through once in a lifetime experiences where fans and their favorite celebrities become friends. Yeah, if I'm an actor, I'm not doing that. Yeah, no, exactly, but I'm sure you get paid bank, dude. Like I'm sure you get paid like probably a hundred thousand

dollars or something like that. Allegedly, allegedly that is a guess. I don't know. Like that just has to be so emotionally draining. And you hear a lot of influencers talk about the fatigue they get from meet and greets. Here Chappell-Rones was just speaking about this, about having someone tell you a million times a day how deeply you've impacted their life and their trauma and everything. And for every person who's spilling their guts in a positive way to you like that, there's

probably someone who hates your guts. I mean, maybe not so much the whole family. You have to be a really bad faith consumer. Don't like vanilla Hallmark boyfriend. Yeah. Yeah. But like I find it a little sus that this convention co-founder is so shamelessly leaning into being like on parasocial matchmaker of sorts. She said, I believe the Hallmark fandom has grown because it is a true form of peaceful escape. Hallmark Channel and the like offer a beautiful, kind, inclusive outlet from

the chaos and stress of the current world landscape. And speaking of the whole you got me through cancer sort of parasocial pressure, this gal Palmer leans into that too. So she told this E-news reporter about a fan named Debbie who had throat cancer and was newly a widow who said that she had skipped a chemo treatment and left her hospice center to attend different drama drama events because her quote, only wish was to see this one hallmark

actor that she loved quote, one last time. And Palmer as she was relaying this story seemed like this was all such a beautiful thing. And on one hand, maybe it is, you know, we have to find meaning and purpose and solace somewhere, but it's just the way that this convention organizer described it. I don't know. It just felt like a little bit exploitative and culty to me. So on that note, one fan's warm and fuzzy escapism can truly be another fan's exclusion, which leads us to a slightly more specific unpacking of the issues of racism, sexism, and ageism

in Hallmark media. All the isms. All the isms. So Hallmark's programming has historically faced criticism for lack of racial diversity, reinforcing a predominantly white middle-class world. The narrow racial representation in Hallmark movies reinforces a familiar, idyllic version

of small town America, which can make viewers feel emotionally connected to a homogenous world that excludes racial, diverse, and ethnic perspectives. This lack of inclusivity can perpetuate a cult-like attachment to a singular worldview, alienating audiences of different racial backgrounds and reinforcing the comfort zone of those who see themselves

reflected on screen. So, when doing research for this episode, obviously I looked for Black Hallmark movies specifically, but I also, I was like, what about Middle Eastern, you know, Hallmark movies, any type of ethnically diverse, didn't see anything. It seems like a bad move because you're missing out on a whole market. The homogeneity of the perspective. And I know that there's a way where we can keep the same elements of Christmas vibes

and even the same maybe like rehash storylines, some of the tropes and stuff. We've done it. There is a lot of really cringe, wholesome media all over television that appeals to demographics other than suburban white ladies. Like we've pulled it off before. I really like your analysis though of how like idealizing this image of like an all white American small town really encourages a cult like attachment to that. It is this sort of emphasis that like a perfect world looks like this. Yeah, I actually didn't think about it until now that growing up, like I said, we watched Hallmark movies, but it did not reflect what my home life looked like

in a sense that, you know, they weren't black. They were all middle-class white people. And that's not to say that, you know, there are not like black escapist shows, like the sitcoms, but to see black people where we know that there is a perfect ending to something in a celebratory way. Like a fairy tale ending or whatever.

Exactly. Yeah, I never saw that. So Hallmark has definitely made strides towards inclusive casting. The deeply ingrained patterns of exclusion still persist though. And the introduction to diversity is often seen as tokenistic or

peripheral. This selective representation can foster a cult-like devotion among viewers who see hallmark movies as preserving a nostalgic, uncomplicated emphasis on uncomplicated, world free from the complexities of race relations seen in more diverse media. And in combination with what we just read about the cult worship of these individual actors, when you're sort of like lulling your audience to sleep, so to speak, with that type of messaging, and also they're growing so attached to these films that the films can basically do no wrong. Right, right. attached to these films that the films can basically do no wrong. You're basically like very subtly slipping your audience this tincture of unquestionability,

if that makes sense. Yeah, because it's like, here's all of these core tenets and things that you value that you never thought to question and we're going to put them all together into a form of media that allows you to essentially escape into a version of the world with no people of color. Yeah, exactly. And on a much more dangerous level, that has been a fundamental mission of so many destructive cult leaders from history. You know, like look at the multi-level marketing community whose leaders are in large part white, suburban, unquestioning, serving a false promise of a utopia that doesn't exist to a very particular demographic.

Again, Hallmark Christmas movies are being served to a privileged demographic in that these are like, you know, mostly comfortable white suburban women, but they're also a vulnerable demographic in that like they're home all day, taking care of kids and I'm making generalizations. But like a lot of these consumers are being served messaging, idealizing whiteness, stay at home motherhood, women not being ambitious. And I think it is worth scrutinizing how an entire month of that nonstop media funneling into your brain can affect you. And I honestly, I mean, there has to be a Venn diagram of like MLMers and Hallmark Christmas movie consumers, right? It's women. And this brings us like much to your point about race inclusivity and the lack thereof. You could make a similar point about heteronormative family units and gender identity in Hallmark

storytelling. So in an article written in the special issue titled, Gender and Media Representations, a review of the literature on gender stereotypes, objectification, and sexualization, the research illustrates that the portrayal of gender in Hallmark's media content tends to align with traditional and heteronormative gender roles. Women are often depicted in nurturing, caregiving roles, reinforcing stereotypical expectations of femininity. These gender portrayals resonate with viewers seeking comfort in familiar gender norms, forming a sense of escapism and security. However, this dynamic can also feed into a cult-like mindset where deviations from these norms such as queer identities or progressive gender roles are largely absent or minimized,

maintaining a conservative gender binary worldview. And I see this present even in the films where the lead female characters are not primarily homemakers or nurturing because, and this is one of the biggest Hallmark movie tropes, is big city girl returns to her small town and her success at the end of the biggest Hallmark movie tropes is big city girl returns to her small town and her success at the end of the movie is always still found in her like surrendering to all of those oftentimes conservative values and themes and talents that she abandoned and the beginning of the movie. Totally. That actually brings me to this one example of a cult leader that Hallmark birthed that I keep hinting at.

And that is the cult of Candace Cameron Bure. So Candace Cameron Bure of Full House fame, also known as the Queen of Christmas, became Hallmark's darling, their golden girl. She starred in 30 Hallmark movies. She became like synonymous with these films. She is famously a super, super fundamentalist evangelical Christian. And she used her Hallmark fame as a launch pad to then discard Hallmark, the cult that birthed her,

the cult that made her. Basically with the argument that Hallmark had the cult that birthed her, the cult that made her, basically with the argument that Hallmark had gotten too woke. I'm quoting IndieWire's piece titled, The Hallmark Channel is Now Too Woke for Candace Cameron. She believed that Hallmark was no longer feeding its audiences the vision of traditional American family values that she held. And so she founded her own offshoot network titled the Great American Family Network. And with this network, she says quote, that she wants to keep traditional marriage at the core.

So no gays. She said of Hallmark that it's a completely different network than when she started because of the change in leadership. Quote, I know that the people behind the great American family were Christians that loved the Lord and wanted to promote faith, programming and good family entertainment. So she's basically taking an energy that Hallmark had since the beginning because it started with religious Christian programming. And I think that like, you can't underestimate the vibes

that Hallmark already had to like, make this offshoot cult possible. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's such an easy transition. And if you're a Stan, like if the Candice Cameron movies are your favorite Hallmark movies, you might watch the ones on whatever new network she's pushing.

Exactly, like, because it's like SoulCycle instructors. Like you're not a fan of SoulCycle, you're a fan of the instructor that you stan. I fully agree. I followed one. On Instagram because I loved her so much. Which one? Her name is like Danny and baby she spoke to my spirit.

Yeah, that's right. And I was like, I fucking hated the class, but it was her. So I understand that analogy. They're actors. These are actors. Like their whole job is to have Riz. And so she has this really icky sort of evangelical Riz,

but like she developed a cult following because of it. And they probably will follow her off a cliff. I have a conspiracy theory that Candace Cameron is only upset that Hallmark is making gay Christmas movies because if there are two male leads, it means there's no rules for her. Ooh! Oh.

You better come on, critical thinker! No, I love that, because that I understand. To which I say, kiss a girl, Candace. You really want more airtime? You get in the studio with Lacey Shevere and make history. Yeah, or if she really wanted to double up her screen time, it could be like a parent trap thing where she plays her own love interest.

I don't think we should allow her to make this in a way that's comfortable for her though. I wanna see a gay incest Hallmark Christmas film starring Candice Cambami Marais. That's all I'm saying. Now that's family programming. It's good wholesome family content. That's another thing.

You know how they're like, what's classy if you're rich and trashy if you're poor? Incest. Oh my God. Yeah. There's no conversation stopper quite like saying the term incest six times. Okay. There's no conversation stopper quite like saying the term incest six times. OK, now this wouldn't be a Sounds Like a Call episode without detailing some legal trouble. Chelsea, could you please round us out with a regaling of some legal hot water that the cult of Hallmark got itself in?

I would love to. So Hallmark finds itself under fire and it missed a legal battle due to one of their former employees who alleges she was wrongfully terminated and subjected to ageist and ableist harassment by the hands of the company's execs. In an article written by the Associated Press, Hallmark exec Lisa Hamilton-Dailey allegedly made offhanded comments to the now terminated Miss Perry that they needed to replace the old talent,

referencing the queen of Hallmark, Lacey Chabert. Oh, so you've got the, okay, there are two queens. Yeah, yeah. She went on to say that Chabert was getting older and we have to find someone like her to replace her as she gets older. The lawsuit that was referenced in the article adds that Hamilton Daly stated in reference

to another Hallmark star, Holly Robinson Peat, no one wants her because she's too expensive and getting too old. She can't play leading roles anymore. So this lawsuit was breaking news. Yes, this lawsuit actually just came out a few days before this recording. So this lawsuit was breaking news. Yes. This lawsuit actually just came out a few days before this recording. So this is recent.

So we will fucking see. Wow. Old talent. Put some respect on Lacey's name. Truly. Lacey has done over, definitely done over 30 Hallmark films. Just replace her like she's a horse. First of all, Holly Robinson Peete.

She's not a fucking Hallmark star, first and foremost. I did a show with Holly Robinson-Pete, and she was the most professional and just a breeze to work with. But I also understood that while working with her, she was a fucking legend with a career of over like 30 years. Like she started in the eighties. So I truly believe like Hallmark to the Lacey Shabarra

that all if you're going to continue to cast legends for these roles, legends come with a hefty price tag. Period. Listen. Yeah. I mean, Hallmark as a company has some work to do. Yeah. Are we surprised? I guess we're not. The question is not if Hallmark is a paragon of morality. The question here is, is it a cult? And if so, how bad is it? So with that, I want to pose the question to each of you, Reese and Chelsea, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out.

Which one do you think the cult of Hallmark Christmas movies falls into? I think I'm going to say in their current iteration, live your life because they are getting more diverse and I think it is a dying breed. But you think the ship is sinking. I mean, I'm dealing with some insecurity because I feel like most things tend to be watch your backs and I don't want to make everything a watch your back. Oh, okay. I mean, I get that. There's nothing like appearing in a Sounds Like a Cult episode to make you feel insecure.

But follow your heart. I feel like, let's think about the worst consequences, right? The worst consequences of this are not necessarily exclusive to Hallmark. The worst consequences being like lulling middle America into a sort of like racist slumber? Like tacitly. Is Hallmark contributing to that ignorance and problematic escapism egregiously enough that it's having a net destructively culty effect on society at large. But is that even the rubric here? I don't know. I kind of agree with you. For me, this is giving-

I don't even know what I just said. No, because I'm going to tell you what you said. Okay, please. Thank you. Okay, because this is a cuspi for me. This is a live your life moon and a watch your back rising because I just don't like, specifically during this political climate, I do not wanna give anyone any excuse to ignore what the fuck is going on. So you need to know what's happening

in the world around you. I get it, live your life, watch your little escapist TV show, your escapist Hallmark fairy tale movie, but you need to know what's going on in the world around you. So true. And so for that, I say it's a cusp.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because cults have to be evaluated in context. Yeah. And societal context is changing. And so like the stakes of this type of permission structure for ignorance are just higher right now. Absolutely. And it's kind of Hallmark's responsibility

to wield its power considering all of that. Hence the gay movie that made Candace Cameron mad. But then it's like, is that pandering? It never ends. Yeah, it never ends. And that's good. And we will never end. Well, okay.

So we have kind of like a wiggly answer, but I think that reflects this wiggly ass cult. I'm with you two. I think it's super cuspy. Live your life, watch your back. But I feel like, you know what? We're recording this also the day before the election, so we like don't know what's about to happen. As the world encroaches toward fascism, I feel like live your life's encroach toward watch your back.

So true. You know what I mean? It's just a result of polarization and dictatoriness. So we have our answer. It's watch your back. Maybe it's a watch your back. Oh shit. All right, we got there.

I'm glad we talked that out This is why three is better than two we need this triangle. We need this tripod. Well, that is our show Thanks so much for listening stick around for a new cult next week. But in the meantime stay culty but not too culty. produced by Reese Oliver and Chelsea Charles. This episode was made with production help from Katie Epperson. And if you like the show, please feel free to check out my books, Words Let, A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language, Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, and the forthcoming The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality. If you're a fan of Sounds Like a Cult, I would really appreciate it if you'd leave

a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. If you're a fan of true crime, mystery, and or period pieces, then I have the perfect iPhone game to recommend to you. It's called June's Journey, and it follows this bold young protagonist named June as she goes to uncover her family's scandalous secrets at her sister's estate. When you play this game, you get to escape reality and immerse yourself in a gripping tale

of mystery, murder, and romance, where every clue brings you closer to the truth. My absolute favorite thing about June's Journey is how beautiful it is. It takes place in the 1920s. And as you go along the plot, uncovering these clues to solve the mystery of the game, you get to decorate the island and it is very aesthetic.

I love to play this game when I kind of need to wind down, to distract my brain, to self-soothe. It's relaxing, it's intriguing. And if you're a fan of this podcast, I really think you'll like the game. Can you unmask the truth? Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android.