Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Ikea

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

hej!   don’t forget to grab a blue bag upon stepping off the escalator, you’ll need it for the culty keepsakes you collect throughout this week’s no-assembly-required episode. a longtime staple for those in ~transitory~ periods in life (college students, recent singles, the elderly), Ingvar Kamprad’s furniture emporium turned community gathering hub and meatball mecca known simply as *cue the heavenly choir*  IKEA has captivated the living rooms, tastebuds, and wallets of countless shoppers worldwide since 1943. Whether it was an outing for a reliable Kallax shelf, a trendy set of Alex drawers, or a classic Pöang chair you truly never forget your Ikea indoctrination. Getting lost in everyone’s fav iconic maze-like showroom with Amanda and Reese today is Morgan Absher (⁠@morgsyabsher⁠) of Two Hot Takes (⁠@twohottakes⁠)! Cozy up with a complimentary hot drink (exclusively for Family Members of course) and get ready to delve into the shockingly culty world of IKEA.   Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube!Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles.  Thank you to our sponsors! Start earning points on rent you’re already paying by going to https://joinbilt.com/CULT Find exactly what you’re booking for on https://Booking.com, Booking.YEAH! Head to https://www.squarespace.com/CULT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code CULT   Please consider donating to those affected by the Los Angeles Fires. Some organizations that Team SLAC are donating to are:  https://mutualaidla.org/ https://give.pasadenahumane.org/give/654134/#!/donation/checkout https://shorturl.at/SGW9w Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Guess what? The Cult of Sounds Like a Cult is coming to the real world with a very exciting live show on Monday, June 9th in Los Angeles at the El Rey Theater. This show is so much fun. It's called The Big Magical Cult Show and it is like a live podcast on hallucinogens. Join us to catch some of the voices that you hear week after week but matched to their IRL bodies. It's wild as we discuss a very spicy and very timely topic with the help of some live show elements that you just simply could not convey in podcast form including drag and burlesque performances, custom drinks and merch, a parasocial

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There's no cost to join, and just by paying rent, you unlock flexible points that can be transferred to your favorite hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. And when you're ready to travel, BILT points can be converted to your favorite miles and hotel points around the world, meaning your rent can literally take you places. So if you're not earning points on rent, my question is, what are you waiting for? Start paying rent through BILT and take advantage of your neighborhood benefits by going to joinbilt.com slash cult.

That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash cult. Make sure to use our else so they know we sent you. Joinbilt.com to sign up for built today. This episode of Sounds Like a Cult is brought to you by booking.com booking.e. Every time I use booking.com to find a place to stay in the US, I find exactly what I'm looking for. Genuinely, I recommend that if you are searching for a place to stay in the United States, check out booking.com.

No matter who you are, Booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on Booking.com. Booking.yeah. The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Hey culty hosties, this is Sarah calling from Salt Lake City, Utah. I think the cultiest thing about IKEA is that people will go just for the food, they talk about it like it's the best thing in the world, and it is gross. It tastes like a microwave meal.

Hi Sounds Like a Cult, my name is Elizabeth and I'm calling from Washington DC. The cultiest thing about IKEA is the fact that IKEA is just like Vegas for furniture shopping adults. You cannot tell what time it is, there's literally no signal in the IKEA warehouse, and you can be stuck there for hours. There's even a cafeteria, you know, so you can be there however long you want and then you won't know how much time has passed and like won't hear from people. So you just get stuck in this loop. Honestly pretty culty.

Hi, Sounds Like a Cult. My name is Kira and I'm from Brisbane, Australia and the cultiest thing about IKEA is that they've gotten rid of all of their customer service helpers and instead it's just AI. They really push for the whole DIY branding. And then if you have any issues with delivery or their products, then they just leave you high and dry. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow.

I'm your host, Amanda Montel, author of the book Cultish, out in paperback May 27th. And I'm Reese Oliver, your co-host, and Sounds Like a Cult's coordinator. Every week on this show, we discuss a different fanatical fringe group or guru from the cultural zeitgeist, from Elon Musk to Trader Joe's.

That is the full range, to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? ["The Last of Us Theme"] And if so, which of our cult categories does it fall into? A live your life, watch your back, or a get the fuck out. After all, not every culty-looking group these days is equally destructive.

Cultish influence falls along a spectrum. The point of this show is to analyze how fanaticism shows up in everyday life, to poke a little bit of fun like humans search for meaning, and to critique how power abuse shows up in places you might not think to look. Sometimes cults trap you straightforwardly, and other times, like today, the aroma of meatballs leads you right into the bed frame section before you realize you came here for a dish sponge and you can't find the exit. Edge everyone! It's IKEA time! It's IKEA time! Today, in navigating this maze that is IKEA, we will have some fun stops. We will eat some meatballs. We will giggle

our little bucket hats all the way to the soft serve at the end. But along the way, we will encounter some dark basement rooms full of some lore that I don't know if y'all are prepared for. Yeah, y'all this episode goes to places I could have never predicted. We are seriously going there today. I don't even know if you're ready to find out the truth about how culty IKEA really is. And to help us to find out the truth about how culty IKEA really is. And to help us assemble today's very sturdy and very Swedish episode is none other than Morgan Absher of the Too Hot Takes podcast. Welcome Morgan.

Hello, thanks for having me. I'm so glad you're here. Could you actually introduce your show before we get into it to the listeners? Yeah, so my podcast is called Too Hot Takes. I read crazy Reddit stories, which Reddit, that's another cult for another day. But I try to stick to the relationship advice subreddit,

the AITA, you know, people questioning if they're wrong or not. And then, you know, we get into some weird messed up stories, but we dive in there every week. And I mean, Reddit is, as you guys know, it's crazy. It is, I mean, when people are a non, Oh, and we do have some Reddit stories about IKEA later. All the cults live on Reddit and IKEA is no exception. Yeah, a hundred percent.

I'm actually so excited that we're doing a cult brand today. I have discovered that this is, as of late, my favorite category of cult to discuss on the show because I think a lot of the cults that we cover are niche. Not everybody is familiar with them. And sometimes the cults that we cover will have a real cultural flare up, like our episode on the cult of Neil Gaiman,

or on a slightly lighter hearted note, the cult of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. But not every single person will have interacted with that cult, even if they've vaguely heard of it. But cults like Sephora, Amazon, Costco, Trader Joe's, IKEA, these are all brands that we've like patronized and maybe love. And obviously not everyone is religious about them. It's not life or death for everyone, but it is life or actually death foreshadowing for some people. But

I'm curious Morgan, what is your relationship to the cult of IKEA and why did you want to be a guest on this topic? I love IKEA. I wore blue in honor of my favorite place to eat meatballs. Honestly I feel like IKEA was like a lot of people's first experience of going out on your own when you go to college and you're buying furniture and choosing what you're putting in your space. Like I feel like everyone has had a KALAKS at one point in their life, the square organizer cube thing. So I started at college and I was two hours away

from my closest Ikea. So it was a big experience going to Ikea and picking everything out. But I go there now probably once every other week to have meatballs. Oh my God. Yeah. Are you a family member?

I am a family member. Me too. I mean, you go on the weekends, there's raffles. Sorry, what does that mean? It's their loyalty program. We're part of the club. It's free to join, you get it on your Apple wallet and they give you meatball deals.

Yeah, and you get birthday gifts, you get- A free hot drink every visit? Yes, and then you get to show your little membership card on the weekends and they put you in raffles and sometimes they'll just give you gifts. Like I got a couple of muffin sheets, I've gotten pillowcases. Okay, look at you.

So IKEA is there for you in good times and in bad. They really are. I mean, that cafe, I think it's like, it's so underrated. And if you look at their meal deal calendar, they've got something every day of the week. So it is an actual affordable place to go eat. It's become our date night spot. Okay. So it's a good day. I can't. It's a great day. It's the day of the middle class people. Okay, wait. So then I have a question for both of you. You're participating in the

culture of Ikea. It's so much more than a furniture store. Obviously. What do you think makes it a cult in scare quotes, so to speak though, an ideology, a belief system, an experience, a lifestyle? There's clearly a lot of psychology behind IKEA. Like you go in the store, you're trapped in. Luckily the cafe, you can go up an escalator at my store and you're right there in the cafe and you can go down the escalator to leave.

Like you don't have to go through the store to get to the cafe, but there's clearly some darker things of IKEA that they want to keep you trapped in there and buying their stuff. So I fully recognize it's there, but maybe a little blissfully unaware as I eat my plant balls. Oh, are you getting vegan balls? The plant balls are life-changing. They're better than any of the meat ones. They're so good. You get the mashed potatoes, cranberries, and peas vibes. That sounds amazing. Also, I just have to pause. I love how you say my store. Like you're like, oh, at my church, we do it this way. My place of worship.

My IKEA. What do you think makes IKEA cultier than the average furniture store, Reese? I fully agree with the psychology thing. I also just think IKEA is a very encompassing experience. You get there and your parking section is called bed or chair or sofa. It's very cute. In my store, you go up the escalator or down.

You can park underground or on the roof. And then in the middle is the store. And it's the same. You don't see the sun for the two hours you're in there. You're walking through these simulated homes and you're like, I could totally live here and work in that fake office over there and sleep in that bed right there and go walk that fake dog. And I think what I love about it is that it is so clearly not an American home in there that they're modeling. So in that way, it feels very immersive. And the American part of my brain that likes the exoticism of it lights up in the IKEA.

Okay. So it's homey, but escapist. Yes. You're literally seeing a fictional, perfect setup of a home. It's kind of commune vibes. It's like idealistic. Like if only I could live this way. I mean, IKEA is Scandinavian, Midsommar, the movie and the- There's IKEA artwork in the movie. In her bedroom, there's a painting of a girl and a bear and it's from IKEA. Okay, the Venn diagram. What?

It's a circle. Oh no. It's a circle. That's why I love IKEA so much. No, I love Midsommar, the aesthetic, I really do. I have to say, so I am not as familiar with IKEA as it seems like the both of you are. And I think it has to do with the following. So obviously you made mention of it, Morgan.

IKEA is a critical part in a lot of Americans coming of age story, right? Like the first time you furnish a space, it's probably with IKEA furniture because it is so affordable. For me, I feel like in the early 2010s when I was in college, the two aesthetics that you could have were like millennial minimalist, which was IKEA. Whereas like this is gross, but I was like that shabby chic thrift store bitch, you know? And so I get it. I am her now.

I get it. Yeah. So when I was 21 and furnishing my first place, I didn't have a furniture cult to join because Facebook marketplace didn't exist yet, but IKEA very much did. And as a cult brand, it really did have something almost missional and all consuming going for it right out of the gate. IKEA has a philosophy, and it's very transparent about that. The IKEA philosophy is as follows. Quote, we bring the IKEA brand to millions of homes, offering well-designed, functional, durable, affordable,

and sustainable home furnishing solutions to people with big dreams and thin wallets. We're curious about the world around us and want to make a positive difference in people's lives. I'm in people's lives. I'm in. Say last. Hedge.

Give me a meatball. Big dreams and thin wallets? I think that speaks to a lot of people. So we want to get a little bit into the IKEA lore because any cult brand has lore, it leans into it, and it's part of the world building. So from IKEA's Our History page it says, oh and I'm gonna struggle through all of these Swedish pronunciations today like please forgive me, feel free to correct me Swedish culties, but apparently the founder Ingvar Kamprad founded IKEA in 1943 at the age of 17

selling goods like pens and wallets. Fun fact IKEA IKEA is an acronym. Only the true followers and acolytes really know. It stands for Ingvar Kamprad Elm Tärd Angunarand. And the latter two words there represent the farm that our boy Ingvar grew up on and its neighboring village. So, Ingvar, he's from a home county in Sweden called Småland. I feel like that was good. That was pretty good. Yeah, it sounded great. And it was heavily forested with stony soil, okay? He's from this place where people were resourceful and expert at making the most of little. And that has always been at the heart of IKEA according to its lore. So this is what happened next. In 1948, the most of little. And that has always been at the heart of IKEA, according to its

lore. So this is what happened next. In 1948, the war is over. A lot of people are doing better. And Ingvar's dad gave him a little money to start his furniture company. And thus IKEA was born. So my question for each of you is what was your first piece of IKEA furniture and what did it represent in the building's Roman of your life? Oh, wow. I've had of IKEA furniture and what did it represent in the building's Roman of your life? Oh, wow. I've had much IKEA furniture. My parents love them the old IKEA, as do I.

But I think the first, I begged and begged and begged for a loft bed for a really long time and my beautiful, wonderful mother bought me one and she built it with her own two hands. I think she built me that when I was going into middle school. So yeah, very transitional time in my life. I got a new little bedroom set. We were moving at the time. It was definitely like moving forward. And you know, I got on my bed that night and I was a little scared that I would fall. You know, it represented the love that my mother had put into that bed for me. That's huge. And that was my indoctrination. Okay, yeah. No, honestly, like a potentially dangerous bed made safe by your mom, that's meaningful.

Yeah. Love you, Jamie. Mine was the Kallax. I mean, going to the nearest Ikea, like it was two hours away from where I grew up and moving to the big city of Minneapolis and going to that store, like I had never seen anything like it.

It was mind blowing to me and going through that store, like I had never seen anything like it. It was mind-blowing to me. Going through and picking out everything and writing my little list as I went through the store of like, I need this number and this number and getting to the end and you get it all and then and then you have to put it together yourself with your college roommates bonding over this whole experience of like, what the hell? These directions are basically in Swedish. There's no directions actually. It's just pictures with a little guy. Like, what are we doing? It was a really magical time.

It's like coming into adulthood by way of IKEA furniture. So it was really special. Fun fact, there is a cognitive bias that I wrote about in my latest book called the IKEA effect, which describes our tendency to think something is more valuable when we helped create it. And I think IKEA has really, to put it cynically, weaponized this bias.

Because Lord knows, they don't have to leave the furniture in that flat packaging. But it's not only more affordable for them just to sell essentially wholesale furniture. They also know that when people build the furniture themselves, they're going to look at that shitty Pong chair. Oh, the Pong. We built two of those in the Ottomans. Do you build the Pong yourself? Yeah.

Oh, you do? Yeah. Yeah, one of these. So when you get that fucking chair and you look at it in the corner of your first ever studio apartment or whatever, you're like, I fucking built that and it's the corner of your first ever studio apartment or whatever. You're like, I fucking built that and it's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And like an all knowing mysterious and firm handed leader, IKEA made that happen for you. Also to get conspiracy theorists with it, I do wonder if from a brand strategy standpoint,

they know that people building it themselves are more likely to ignore the instructions and mess things up. And thus, if it's a little fucked up, they can't really return it because they know it's their fault. I'm going to go against you there. IKEA's got a great return policy. Do they? Maybe I just don't return to anything.

You get a full 365 days to return something there. Wow. That's beautiful. Yeah. And if you have your family account you don't need to hold on to that receipt. They can look you up and then it goes back to the as is room so it doesn't get wasted. It gets sold to someone else at an even cheaper cost

because it's used. That's actually very special. Wait, let me go back. The loyalty program is called the family plan? Yes. Of course it is. Yes, girl, Ikea family. I mean. Again, it's this idea of co-created value.

It's like, we are a family. I'm going to call us that. As the brand of IKEA, we are your parents and we're going to give you this opportunity to build your own furniture. And when you do, you're going to bond with your roommates. You're going to feel a little more grown up when you finish than when you started. Like this is the psychology behind even TikTok. Like I think TikTok also weaponizes the like delulu of co-created value.

Like have you ever commented on a TikTok and you start getting lots of likes and suddenly it makes you like the video more because you're a part of the world of that video? Oh, yeah. That's like IKEA. When you build IKEA furniture, you're like, I'm a part of the world of that video. Oh yeah. That's like Ikea. When you build Ikea furniture, you're like, I'm a part of the Ikea brand. Contrary to Ikea. Exactly, you're like, I am a tile on the mosaic of this. The sweat equity of it all.

Exactly. Yes. I'm in it. And then you do want to upgrade eventually. You move beyond the style of the Clacks, but you think back to the four hours it took you to build it and then you turn into a hoarder basically. Oh yeah, the sweat equity, you're like,

I poured myself into this deeply underwhelming looking piece of furniture. I've got a clack at my dad's place, I'm fully moved out now, and it's been there for eight years and he's trying to get rid of it, and I cry a little every time. I'm like, no, just keep it, it's fine, why would you be so wasteful?

cry a little every time. I'm like, no, just keep it. It's fine. Why would you be so wasteful? Attention renters, you have got to start taking advantage of built. So many of us rack up points on groceries, travel, and everything else we buy. So why wouldn't we start accumulating points on one of our biggest monthly expenses rent rent. With built, that is finally a possibility. There's no cost to join and just by paying rent, you unlock flexible points that can be transferred to your favorite hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. When you pay rent through built, you unlock two powerful benefits. First, you earn one of the industry's most valuable points on rent every month. No matter where you live or who your landlord is, your rent now works for you. Second, you get access to exclusive neighborhood benefits in your

city. Built's neighborhood benefits are things like extra points on dining out, complimentary post-workout shakes, free mats or towels at your favorite fitness studios, and unique experiences that only built members can access. And when you're ready to travel, built points can be converted to your favorite miles and hotel points around the world, meaning your rent can literally take you places. So if you're not earning points on rent, my question is, what are you waiting for? Start paying rent through built and take advantage of your neighborhood benefits by going to joinbilt.com slash cult. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash cult. Make sure to use our else so they know we sent you. Joinbilt.com to sign up for BILT today. This episode of Sounds Like a Cult is

brought to you by Booking.com. Booking dot yeah. Every time I use Booking.com to find a place to stay in the US, I'm telling you right now, I find exactly what I'm looking for. This is not a regular hotel booking website. This is a cool hotel booking website that has genuinely a ginormous variety of options, whether you wanna stay in a bougie hotel or like a cozy vacation rental, whatever you want.

I recently booked a hotel in New York City using Booking.com. It was easy, it was simple, it made the whole entire process a cinch, which is not always how the process of looking for a hotel in New York goes for me. Genuinely, I recommend that if you are searching for a place to stay while on vacation or going to someone's wedding in the United States, check out Booking.com. No matter who you are, Booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on Booking.com. Booking.yeah. Hi, this is Liz from Fort Lauderdale and I'm calling in about what I think are some of the

cultiest aspects of IKEA. For those that don't live near an Ikea, it's this monolith of particle board possibility with meatballs on the side. It's a blue mysterious wonderland that you can take home in the trunk of your car. The first time I stepped into an Ikea, it felt like I was part of some new group of enlightened furniture shoppers. Like I now had the secrets to building everything I wanted in life. IKEA is also super ubiquitous. I think my favorite one is IKEA Heights, which is a 2009 YouTube soap opera that someone shot in their local IKEA

without permission from the brand. There's also a Tumblr account that used to exist that would take screenshots of adult films and highlight and link to the IKEA furniture that happened to be in the background of those shots. Hi, my name is Madeline. I'm calling from North Carolina. And one of the cultiest things about IKEA to me

is you have to travel so far sometimes to go to an IKEA. Like I have to go several hours away. And I get that it's supposed to be kind of like a Swedish design, but the designs just seem kind of bland and the quality kind of meh for how much it takes to get to an IKEA. For some people, I just don't get the appeal. It seems kind of culty. So you're obviously aware of the psychology at play, but what keeps you attached to IKEA even though you know it's playing tricks on you?

I mean, it's so easy. It's so simple. It's so accessible. I think affordability too is a big part of it. Like when I needed chairs for my podcast studio and I didn't have a lot of money like going to IKEA and going through the as-is room and maybe getting a po-ong chair for 60 bucks like it's so easy and then knowing it holds up. I mean they've got experiments going on in their store with the chair where they've got a little machine pushing on the chair to simulate someone sitting on it and they have a big plaque that says like this chair you can sit in it 60,000 times or whatever it is like don't quote me there but it makes you look and you're like oh high quality and cheap cost down. rapturing about IKEA, as well as providing a product that will always be needed by tons of people, they really prioritize the customer experience. And that is something that they really get into once you dig deeper into their very explicitly stated values. As they have stated on their website, IKEA operates using the concept of democratic design,

which was established at the Milan Furniture Fair in 1995, which aims to evenly weigh the factors of price, function, form, quality, and sustainability. IKEA as a brand claims to be like very morally and ethically driven. They have a page on their website which outlines their vision, business idea, and their values. All of these are separate things, are you following along?

And those values are togetherness, caring for people and planet, cost consciousness, simplicity, renew and improve, different with the meaning, give and take responsibility, and lead by example. It's all very esoteric for a furniture store. It seems like it shouldn't be this spiritual, but also that's very foreign in American consumer culture. And I think it makes you feel really cared for as a customer. And that's rare. That's such a good point. Yeah, I feel like a lot of really popular cult followed brands in the U.S. right now in 2025 try to distract you with flashiness away from the fact that they operate

in a morally and ethically reprehensible fashion. It's like who can really escape the cult of Amazon these days? If you're a makeup lover, it can be tough to skirt the cult of Sephora. And at the same time, from what I've learned of like millennial consumer habits, we want the brands we patronize to say something about our ethics. And that's why there is like so much fraught discourse about what it means about you. If you are an Amazon Prime member, knowing everything that we know about Amazon and Bezos

and the way that he operates his business. And it's like, you know, Tesla is obviously the most extreme example of that. Like, what does it say about you if you're a Tesla owner? Do you find that the ethics of a brand are important to Gen Z? I do think it kind of functions in a very polarized fashion where it either matters to you a lot

or you almost like horse blinders on refuse to engage with it. You're either shopping at Sheen and you're eating at McDonald's and you don't care about anything or you're boycotting Starbucks, not shopping at Target, not ordering from Amazon. It can feel really polarized

and really kind of all or nothing from people my age. I feel like everyone I encounter lately, it's kind of a mixed bag because obviously like I think most people would love to not buy anything from Amazon or not go to Target right now or be able to boycott and do the things that are important to them. But also at the same time, like there's a lot of privilege that comes with that. So it feels like we're kind of in a growing pain period of time with this and everyone's trying to like skirt by while also recognizing their thin wallets as IKEA puts it. Yeah, yeah, totally.

And I think the polarization of like all or nothing just speaks to the increased cultishness of this time. Like it doesn't reflect as well on you to say like, oh yeah, you know, like I would love to not shop at Amazon but I do order, you know, I do order something sometimes. would love to not shop at Amazon, but I do order, you know, I do order something sometimes. I'm not all in on it, but I do order something sometimes. I don't know, we're living in a time where I think people want you to say, I stand for

this, or I absolutely do not. And that reminds me of the thought terminating cliche that gets tossed around, there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. You know, like people will say that to defend one mode of consumption and there are, you know, so many things that people say to defend more ethical, sustainable, whatever. But I think IKEA has this like glow around it because it does seem to care about being simple, renewable, responsible. And again, it's not American.

So we're like, oh, if I could just leave this culture behind. What if I lived in a communalist country? Yeah, no, the escapism of it all. I think that's a part of the draw too for Americans. Building on some of IKEA's world building, it's time for another fun fact. So all IKEA products, some of you IKEA family members out there might know this one. All IKEA products are named after real Swedish words

and what kind of Swedish word they are basically varies depending on what kind of furniture it is. So like outdoor furniture pieces are all named after different Scandinavian islands. All of their different linens are named after different flowers and plants and things. So this is due to our boy Ingvar. He had some dyslexia, or I think

you would probably call it dyscalculia nowadays, which made numerical product codes difficult for him to read. So thus he came up with this naming system so he could find his own products. And now IKEA lovers can personify and commune around their Billy bookcases. It's so genius because it makes it way easier to talk about products online. You you can form fandoms for like you're, you're collect, like you've been saying, like everybody has their favorite piece. The personalization does draw you in too. Oh, for sure. You're like, wait, no, my Billy bookcase, like.

It's my Billy. It's my, yeah, versus like, oh, 10,001. Exactly. You are more drawn in. That's no one to me. Yeah, exactly. No, it makes it so much more personal and there's an attachment there.

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about the affordability aspect because that cannot be discounted as an ingredient in this cult followed mix. Ingvar was always a proponent for good quality at a low price, accessibility and quality at the same time. In a 1948 IKEA catalog, it said the following, quote, our low prices, by far the lowest in the land, are possible thanks to a high turnover, direct delivery from the factory, and very low overheads. Moving right along in history, in 1953,

IKEA finally adopted its iconic flat pack shipping, which existed but wasn't popular in Sweden until Ingvar adopted it for his company. Self-built furniture kind of took off at this point and as a byproduct of the IKEA effect, building IKEA furniture can feel ritualistic and give the builder a greater sense of ownership over an attachment to their new table or whatever, fucking loft bed. You're really ambitious. Morgan, how do you think the DIY aspect help IKEA identify

its target demographic of cult followers? Honestly, it's just the social connectedness. Like we all want to feel like we're a part of this in group or feel connected and close with loved ones, friends. We're just looking to connect with people. It goes back to this rat park theory. Have you heard that? No. Oh my gosh. That's the study they did with rats and they gave rats drugs. Okay. And separated that. What kind? I feel like it was cocaine water, but again, don't quote me. And so they separated these rats and put them in these

little bins and like they gave them free access to drug water. The rats that were in these bins by themselves would use drugs a lot, but then they put the rats together, still gave them free access to drug water. The rats that were in these bins by themselves would use drugs a lot. But then they put the rats together, still gave them the drug water, but then gave them little park slides to go on, and buddies, they stopped using the drugs. So it's like this overall saying of we're all just looking to be connected

and feel like we're included in something, and I think it oddly gives us that. Yeah, totally, like everyone needs furniture. I know some minimalist out there would argue with that, but like- A pillow on the floor is fine. Yeah, I know a little poof. No, we all need furniture.

And living in these like ever lonely disconnected times, if a furniture brand, again, something we all need, is offering not only a chair, but an opportunity to like build something with your friends and have an experience and eat some plant balls. That's definitely gonna appeal to young people who are just getting on their feet.

Or now that I think about it, my Ikea era was not when I first started college and was getting shit on Craigslist. It was after I went through a breakup when I was in my mid-20s. It's a transitional period store. It's happy. It's a liminal space.

It also helps heal you. No, honestly, because it was like rebirth, renewal, and it was affordable. I was 25. I was single for the first time in my adult life. I had just been through this harrowing separation. A lot of the furniture from our shared apartment was gone. I needed some new shit. I needed a lamp.

And you know what? The sleek aesthetic of IKEA represented that like blank slate of my new life. We are all born again in this IKEA. Look at that. Yeah, that's how it felt. Getting in a little bit more to the customer cultishness of IKEA.

What are some of the cultiest shopping behaviors you as a family member have exhibited yourself or have witnessed from other IKEA die-hards you know of? Honestly I feel like the only thing I've seen there is people trying to fight over the bamboo Tupperware lids. Oh wait what do you mean fight? Like they sell out so like if you see a couple lids left I've had people literally like budge in front like grab the last lid if you don't have the Ikea food storage containers You're missing out. It's all glass with a bamboo lid. No plastic. It's Magical

But they sell out in stores a lot of times so like had someone try to fight me for the last lid What was the profile of this person? Ah, an older, middle-aged woman. The Karen of them all. No, honestly, it's like the Dunhunters. One of the reasons why consumer brands are becoming more religiously worshiped for some people is because if you don't have like an inherent culture,

if you're kind of like a maybe suburban ex Protestant who's kind of out here seeking, but like maybe new age spirituality is a little too woo woo for you. Maybe you're not on your fitness game right now. And so SoulCycle isn't really the religion for you. Pelotons too much too. Pelotons too much, Pelotons too much.

You know, there are like all of the fitness cults don't appeal to you, spiritual cults don't appeal to you, spiritual cults don't appeal to you. Where do you fall? A consumer cult can be your new replacement religion, your new culture. And that's worth fighting for. And I think IKEA, especially in a world where we have increasingly fewer third spaces, IKEA offers a place to hang out.

Like if you're a stay at home mom, Ikea offers you something to do to entertain your kids that you can feed them for cheap. They have like a section with toys. They have a kids play section where you can drop them off called Small Land, which is the name of his home county, Ingvar. You want to shop free of kids. You want a peaceful, enjoyable shopping experience.

Ikea provides that for free. Oh my God, it is a commune. Exactly, and you're buying all of your household things that you need. Yeah. Like it's for the proletariat. And I will say like thinking about it. And maybe this is a Scandinavian thing.

Everyone walks in happy. The kids get dropped off. Like out of all the shopping experiences I've had, like Ikea, you know, you're going to go there and it's going to most likely be chill. People are going to seem like they're nicer. Unless there's no more bamboo lids. Unless there's no bamboo lids.

But it's unlike going to a Costco where people are shoving you with the carts and fighting for the samples. They will grab three, even if you're standing there patiently waiting. You know you're gonna go there and it feels like there's typically enough to go around. It's a little more zen at IKEA.

No, IKEA has set a really iconic tone, honestly. It's really nice there. It has. Yeah, it's high limit. And talking more about this immersive customer experience, it's time to get into one of my personal favorite IKEA fun facts, the catalogs. So in 1950, before this, obviously,

as we mentioned that 1948 one earlier, they had had other printed media. But in 1950, the first iconic annual home furnishings catalog was published in Sweden. It would then be printed and sent out until 2021. And literally every single issue is available via digital format on the IKEA museum website. I have spent like hours pouring over these before, like the ones from the like the 60s and the 70s are so fun. The sheer size of IKEA's product archive

means that there's like a lot of ways to love IKEA in ways that are unique to your own interior design style. So a lot of IKEA devotees have like a decade or a period of time that they hunt for specific IKEA furniture pieces for. Like a lot of people on Reddit hunt for specifically, I'm looking for this whole line from the 90s. The resale community really comes into the culture there.

That's beautiful. I need to take like a Buzzfeed style quiz to find out my IKEA aesthetic or my IKEA. Yeah, what era? Yeah, because like this conversation is making me feel a little bit of FOMA. Like I want to be an IKEA girl. Even if you go for just the plant balls.

Okay, no, I am desperate to try the plant balls. They're so good. If I had a child, I would drop their ass at Smoland. I know. Mama's getting me a meatball. They have a little meatball sundae now. It's like a little scoop of mashed potatoes and like three meatballs. So if you just want like a little bit, it's at the cafe at the exit.

If you guys can see my face. Right. After you check out, you know where you get, it's at the cafe at the exit. If you guys can see my face. Right? What? After you check out, you know where you get this off serve at the end? Yeah. It's there. Okay. Right?

I might have to go after this. Let's go. Let's go. This is like such an effective fucking Kohl brand, dude, because like there are so many little like Easter eggs and secrets. They're not smacking you in the face with all their offerings. They're like allowing it to be a discovery process. Yeah, it's like a secret menu item they've got now.

And it's like, come on in and you will quickly see what we're offering. Yeah, you'll wanna stay. You'll wanna stay. Totally. It's not like the love bombing that you would experience from like a door-to-door evangelical, you know? It's more like a clique of cool girls who are like,

I know you wanna be us. And I do, I do. And that is by the way, no less culty. It's just a different strategy. It's a little more exclusive. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, beautiful.

Moving right along in our timeline. 1950 we got catalogs, 1960 we get the cafeteria. Let's go. Right, let the cafeteria. Let's go. Right? Let's go. Let's go, baby. On the website, there's actually no mention of the meatballs being there at this point in time.

The only thing that they mentioned were burgers. So I don't know when meatballs were officially introduced. They started 1960 with only coffee and cold foods. And by the end of it, they had burgers and such. And this was because Ingvar saw people leaving the store for lunch. And he was like, that's really inconvenient. Like furniture shopping is an all day ordeal. You're probably going to need to be here for a while. Like people are leaving for lunch and then maybe they have time to think about things and they put things back. Like that's such an effective psychological tactic to be like, well, what if you just don't have to leave? Yeah.

Yeah. No one wants to spend money if they're hangry. They're rushing to get out. Or if you're lost. That's all they're thinking about. I know. Or if you're lost. Totally. Okay. So let's talk about getting lost in IKEA. The maze of IKEA has long been joked about, but like this kind of confirms that you're definitely not supposed to leave the store for the entirety of this intentionally immersive shopping experience. So how do you think that this and the brands in store vibes in this way contribute to the cult following? I mean, you're stuck in there. You're a part of it whether you want to be or not.

I mean, they do offer shortcuts, but you have to know it's one of those Easter eggs. It's a hidden thing. And I honestly, I would say the shortcuts are more for fire safety nowadays than the experience. Like ADA compliance? Yeah. It's giving exit here and it's also a shortcut. But don't go that way.

Okay, so that's a green flag. They don't want you to literally die in there. Yeah. Until it gets to the point of death, they don't want you to leave. Yes, I mean, there was a kid that got lost in the maze for six days. Like it is-

Boss, thank you for having a good time of his life. It's designed for a reason. Wait, what? Yeah. How did you, what? Back up, tell me the tale. He got lost in Ikea for six days. He lived on meatballs? I have no idea.

This is just some lore I know. Yeah, Reese, can you look it up? The six day Ikea kid. Chinese boy 12 found living in Ikea stores six days after running away from home. So he ran away from home to go live in an Ikea. Oh. That's how much he loves it.

He spent a week traipsing the streets and living off free food samples go live in an Ikea. Oh, that's how much he loves it. He spent a week traipsing the streets and living off free food samples handed out by the city supermarket. It is unclear exactly where he slept tonight but some reports have speculated he slept on one of the Swedish furniture retailers show beds. That is amazing. If that is not a story of a child leaving home to join a cult, I don't know what it is. Yes, just to talk a little bit more about the maze, though, I will say I went to IKEA like two weeks ago. We needed a bar cart. My boyfriend and I have our first apartment. It's that time for us. We're in our IKEA era. I love that. It's not beautiful. But we went and since COVID, I think I imagine it since COVID, they've put in these screens in the

store room. So like, if you know what you want, you can skip everything and just look it up and find out where it is and then go get it. And he didn't want to do the maze. And I was like, you want to go through? And he was like, well, no, we know what we need. And I was like, no, yeah, okay. And then we got our bar cart. We did get meatballs first though. We did. But like, I like the maze. You felt like you were missing a part of the experience. Yeah, it didn't feel complete. That's how I feel too, even if I'm going to the as is room

because I wanna see if they have some decorations for my podcast studio. What is the as is room? So it's where returns go or slightly chipped items or maybe the paint scratched or whatever or overstocked. They had just way too much and they're trying to clearance it out. At the end of the store,

so it is by checkout or returns, there's an as is room. Everything's super discounted and this is why they have their one year return policy. It is in Paul Spy, but I will actually start there now, see if what I want is there and if not, then I go through the store. But I do have to go through the maze. Even if I know what I want, I like going through and getting ideas, seeing how things are arranged, seeing how they're decorating, or like maybe there's a linen that I wanna refresh and what does it look good with?

Like it just does enhance the experience going through. Okay, so I have to ask how much of your decor, what percentage do you think is Ikea? Not much, I'd say maybe 5%. Oh, only 5%. Yeah, I've now shifted, I'm a Craigslist, a Facebook marketplace. Yeah, Facebook marketplace. Yeah.

Okay, but at your Ikea peak, what percentage would you say? Probably 60, 70%. Okay. It was all I could afford, and that's another part of the thing. Like college era, like young adult moving to LA era, like that's kind of where you get price locked in. For sure.

And it's also about convenience, like speaking of the privilege aspect, if you don't have the time because you're a student or because, I don't know, you have a family or something, if you don't have the time to be like hunting. Also, another reason why people my age might turn to IKEA for the flat pack shipping is because if I want like a trendy couch from Facebook Marketplace,

I don't have a truck to transport that back to my tiny apartment. I'm going to put the flat back in my boyfriend's Ford EcoSport and we're going to go. That's such a good point. Totally. This podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data, your name, address,

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make or are selling design templates or something like that, you can slap them behind a paywall and then people can sign up for a subscription or you can charge a one-time fee. I personally use Squarespace. Sounds like a cult.com is a Squarespace website and I'm pretty sure I set it up in 30 minutes. It was really that easy. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash Colt to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hi, sounds like a cult. My name is Holly. I'm from Massachusetts. And the cultiest thing about IKEA has to be the fact that there is a whole section at the end of the warehouse for refrigerated and frozen foods.

So if in the middle of your trip you decided to go to the cafeteria and eat a plate of Swedish meatballs and gravy, well guess what? Right before you leave, you can then buy like a five pound bag of frozen meatballs and a bunch of gravy packets and everything from chocolate bars to jars of lingonberry sauce to bottles of sparkling hair juice. And then you can continue to pretend that you're eating at the IKEA cafeteria for weeks on end at home. Hi, my name's Jen.

I'm calling from Winnipeg, Manitoba. And I think my cultiest experience with IKEA is when I was gifted a lamp in my early 20s. And I was told by the person who gave it to me that only IKEAkea light bulbs are compatible with Ikea lamps. So they gave me a few extra along with the gift and I just accepted that as fact. It sounded completely true and it wasn't until a few years later I was running errands with a friend and mentioned, oh, we need to stop at Ikea to get light bulbs.

And they told me that actually, no, you can just use any light bulb with them. Okay, so let's continue moving on in history. Now it's the 1960s. And guess what? IKEA's like, we're in our expansionist era. They start moving to their neighboring Scandinavian countries and then in the 70s, expanding even wider to Hong Kong, Australia, Canada, Germany, and finally to the US in 1985. To ensure IKEA's longevity as a retail operation, in 1980, IKEA moved to a franchise model. And as of February of this year, IKEA operates in, Morgan, do you wanna guess how many locations?

How many IKEA stores are there in the world? I don't know, 400? You're joking. Oh my God. What? How many locations, how many Ikea stores are there in the world? I don't know, 400? You're joking. There's 418. Shut up. You are 100%. How do you know that? Ikea is literally in your spirit. You know it so well. Yeah.

I mean, I am Finnish, but I know some Finnish people are like, no, we're not Scandinavian, but you know, we're neighbors. I'm close to the motherland. Wow. It really goes to show, you know, the girl builds the Ikea, but the Ikea, it also builds the girl. My God. That is so good.

That's like a JFK, ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your Ikea. Exactly. Okay, yes. So you're quite right, Morgan. Ikea operates in 418 locations across 63 markets. Here comes another fun fact. Before 1983, IKEA's colors were not blue and yellow.

These are obviously the colors of the Swedish flag. But finally, when it became this international sensation, they wanted to educate the world about what Sweden could be at its best. They changed their colors to blue and yellow. And obviously, as we've been mentioning so much throughout this episode, the sort of escapist, Midsommar-esque Scandinavian allure

is part of what makes IKEA so special and a cult brand. So yeah, let's move into a last bit of lore before we get into some worst-cased culty scenarios. Oh gosh. So it is time to get into our first little Reddit excerpt. Reddit time. We brought your show to you, Morgan. Let's go.

So IKEA fans are widespread and dedicated, much like devotees of a world religion, as evidenced by the online chaos that occurred when supply chains upended mid-COVID. I was trying to buy a desk from IKEA during this time. Girl, don't even get me started. It was awful. From the Ikea Reddit, r slash Ikea mods took to reporting statuses on stock of beloved items like Alex drawers for customers online

because like the Ikea faculty were not able to keep up with the demand. So this post from user r slash dk2802, many of you are looking to purchase Alex drawer units and are frustrated that they are low in stock in many areas. This year they have sold much higher than anticipated and they are also due to be replaced with new versions in April 2021.

Stock levels on the outgoing versions may not improve before they're discontinued, so please be patient and understand that this is why you're not seeing them replenished as frequently. So yes, lots of issues. And I just, I love the community care aspect of all of these people being like no my neighbors deserve to know when they're getting their bookshelves. Yeah. I find that so wholesome. I actually went through this so we redid our house kitchen and we fully did an IKEA kitchen because it was so affordable like yeah it was like a $60,000 difference. Whoa. Going IKEA versus a

local company here in LA. Yeah. And a lot of our kitchen stuff was out of stock. And like we were like debating, driving like six hours to the next nearest Ikea to get it. And it was because of people posting like quantities and what they had in their stores. So I went through this. It is very Cult of Trader Joe's-esque, you know, like there are so many secret Facebook groups where people are exchanging information about like where you can get XYZ limited edition holiday offering at a certain time of year when it's sold out here.

And like, obviously the difference in price and difference in need is larger with IKEA because like, feel free to debate me. You don't really need Kachoi, Pepe, Gnocchi. I mean, I actually do. But I know like, you need kitchen cabinets. Yeah, yeah you do. It is amazing how no other brand has managed

to make furniture this affordable and accessible. Like what the hell? Like maybe Wayfair, but aren't they like trafficking children? Stop it. Oh my God, that was the craziest conspiracy rabbit hole I went down. Oh my god, Lordrop Reese's in QAnon. Reese is Q.

I didn't know that was a QAnon thing. No, no, no. That is QAnon COVID conspiracy theory number one. That was a crazy Wayfair conspiracy. And honestly, when you watch the videos breaking it down, why is a bookcase named Britney $30,000? It was scary, but. Because they were trying to copy the Billy bookcase

and look how soulless and evil and nefarious it becomes kind of on a real note when you don't have the culture behind it. Like it was named Billy for a reason. You know what? This makes me want to ask Morgan, are you aware of any major brand controversies involving IKEA? Well there was one okay. The founder Invar was like accused of being a Nazi. Oh yeah. Oh my god. His grandmother was like rooted in like a lot of Nazi ideals and I think she was like Czech and so like there was a lot of Nazi ideals. And I think she was Czech.

And so there was a lot of geographical stuff with the Nazis. And she felt like they were reuniting Germany and all this stuff. And so she was indoctrinated. Damn, that's a serious one. Wow. Finding you in real time from the BBC, author Elizabeth Asbrink says, Mr. Comprat was an active recruiter for a Swedish Nazi group and stayed close to sympathizers well after World War II. And he did dispute a lot of this.

I feel like, you know, kind of as a Jew, you're kind of tied into like, you know, Walt Disney didn't really like us. Yeah, that for sure. You kind of hear, as like growing up, you kind of hear stuff like that. But he did really dispute it. Like, that wasn't me. Yeah. And now he says, the Swedish billionaire has said his involvement was youthful

stupidity and the greatest mistake of his life. Kamprad has attributed his early sympathies to Nazism with his upbringing, saying he was greatly influenced by his grandmother, a native of the current Czech Republic region of Bohemia, who introduced him to Nazi propaganda magazines at an early age. Holy shit. Propaganda, man. Because like, clearly you read the IKEA philosophy and this is not a man that sounds like a Nazi Like this communalist culture we've been talking about this whole time. Oh my god So the idea I guess like the narrative is that he distanced himself from this he deeply regrets it

Yeah and I mean I think it's hard because like a lot of Europe didn't really know what Hitler was about until like obviously the horrendous travesties of the Holocaust like came to light. But this grandmother was, you know, living in Sweden had not been in Germany for how many years. So maybe she was trying to like just encourage like, yay, Germany first. I don't know. One thing that I think is fascinating about that time period, specifically thinking about that time period with the rise

of fascism that we're seeing globally and domestically today, is that nationalism was a brand new concept for Germany in the era of World War II and World War I. I look back at the way that Hitler was so obsessed with Germany and used that nationalism to convey extreme violence. I always look back at that era and I'm like, how the fuck were people this genuinely obsessed with Germany? Like who cares, you know? But because nationalism was such a novel concept, people really like glommed onto it as this brand new thing. I don't know how to bring this back to Ikea, but like that idea of national pride alone

and like feeling like you need and deserve to claim what you are owed, no matter what Ingvar Kemprad says, those were his beliefs at some point before he started Ikea. And I don't really know if those two truths can be fully compartmentalized. I mean, the Nazis, as you were saying, were ultimate spin doctors, and people were just

truly believing that it was to their own benefit for whatever reason. But where it comes back to IKEA, some of that same national pride and country image, I think we see a much friendlier version of it in IKEA. I think Ingvar is like relishing and like, this is Sweden, baby. Yeah, I mean, if you ask people like, what's a Swedish brand? How many people are gonna say IKEA?

Like IKEA as like a world brand, you think Sweden. You look at the blue and yellow colors of IKEA and you're like, Swedish, okay, yeah, right there. Yeah, maybe to a different end, like obviously the end here is to bring sustainable, affordable furniture to the masses while providing some yummy meatballs and a fun maze to walk through. Yeah.

It is, it's really challenging, the propaganda of it all. Yeah. I mean, I think about this a lot. There's a term that's used sort of colloquially among cult survivors, cult hopping. When you have experience with techniques of cult recruitment and indoctrination like Ingvar did, sure you can leave that group, but those skills are still in you. And so you can get involved with something positive, something wholesome. But if you're an expert in propaganda and an expert in nationalism, an expert in how

to get your group's branding out there and make people fall in love with it, you're going to be applying that wherever you go. Okay, that's insane. Yeah. I'm thinking back to what I said earlier about like, this is a furniture brand. Why is all of this so esoteric? Like, well, because it was written by someone who was trained by the Nazis on how to recruit people. Like, it all makes so much sense now. Oh my god. What we're all feeling right now, hello cognitive dissonance.

I know. I love it. Yeah. Yummy. My love it. Yeah. It's so yummy. My brain hurts. And now just to give us some more, let's hear a lovely quote to wrap us up on some IKEA lore from Ingvar himself on the structure of IKEA. IKEA is not the work of one person alone.

It is the result of many minds and many souls working together through many years of joy and hard work. Ingvar passed away in 2018, but nowadays IKEA is bigger than ever and there are more ways to shop than ever. There are options for custom-built cabinetry in your kitchen, the IKEA family loyalty program, and even the IKEA business network, which provides unique benefits to businesses who partake. In Sweden, IKEA devotees can go to the IKEA museum and see the timeline we've given you today,

represented visually. And they also do a bunch of other exhibitions, like textile exhibitions, hello, I'm trying to go to that one, and other IKEA-related happenings at the museum. Whoa, oh my God. Because honestly, if he has a political background, politicians love immortalizing their lore in museum form.

All the catalogs are in digital format online forever since 1950. That's mild. Wait, actually, this is all like snapping into crystal clear focus for me because like cult leaders, hardcore cult leaders, I'm talking Keith Raniere, I'm talking Elron Hubbard of NXIVM and Scientology, respectively, they were obsessed with recording and preserving.

In Mormonism too, members are encouraged to scrapbook, to document. And that is what is happening here. I mean, the IKEA museum opened very early in IKEA's timeline. And I'm pretty sure Invar like made a hotel next to it so people could come. Oh my God.

Like it really became an experience for people. You just said something too that totally sparked my thing with like Small Land. Like Small Land isn't this happy-go-lucky, oh my God, IKEA's doing me a favor, trying to watch my kids and provide me a pleasant shopping experience. They're instilling it in you from a young age as a child.

Like, oh my God, when I was little, I made my best friend at Ikea, small land. That's not where I thought you were going with that. Oh my God, they're trying to- Think about it though. No, that's crazy. I can't get the meatballs anymore, you guys. No.

What the hell? And they sell them frozen. God damn it. Wait, you can buy them at the grocery store? No, they're only at Ikea. Oh, oh, sorry, of course. But you can buy them frozen. And the gravy.

You can get the gravy too. You can get the gravy, the lingonberries, you can get it all. The cookies. That chocolate. That is the danger of this podcast is we ruin everything we love. We ruin everything.

And then it's also like new thing to love. Yeah, well, this is why we have our three cult categories and we're gonna get to them at the end. We'll get to our verdict. But you're so right, to look at it from a new angle, they're trying to get people to baptize their kids in the holy water of Ikea. Damn.

One of my childhood best friends had a younger sister who carried around this panda stuffed animal religiously as many children do, and I'm realizing now it's from Ikea. They still sell that exact same one. The shark has a cult following. The shark, the bluh-hark, whatever his name is. The Ikea stuffed toys are very popular. his name is. Blarge, whatever. Yeah, there's a little, the IKEA stuffed toys are very popular.

I just came across this on our Reddit story. Yeah, the shark. A parent threw away his kid's shark. It was really bad, yeah. No, there's a lot of cult followings on their stuffies. But they, and they sell the same ones for like ever, which is, I mean, you know, it gets damaged, you can replace it.

There's like an heirloom quality, the same as the furniture, you know, you can buy the same piece you had in the 90eties. Like, yeah, you can buy your kid, your childhood. You can buy your kid, your childhood. Yes. How many people would want to do that? What the heck? I know it's actually so much more sinister than it would ever seem. Invar knew what he was doing. Oh, he really fucking did. Okay. Oh no. So now that we've turned a dark corner, I remember the first time I ever was requested to do a Cult of IKEA episode of Sounds Like a Cult

was from an old book editor of mine who said that she worked at IKEA for a long time and that it was a deeply, deeply culty experience. So we would be remiss not to talk about the cult from the sort of employee side of things. that's what we want to get into now. And we're pulling the following anecdotes, allegations if you will, from Reddit of course. From the IKEA subreddit. From their own subreddit too. Okay wow. In their own home. So the following allegation has to do with labor exploitation within IKEA.

This post comes from a Reddit user, NecessaryNothing3816, who said the following, I work at an IKEA in Europe in the night shift goods replenishment department. Recently, the automated warehouse started operating, which has resulted in us receiving nearly double the amount of goods. There are nights when only four to five people handle all of this. Two to three are filing and replenishing the automated warehouse, two are sorting. The amount of work compared to the number of people

is kind of insane. Sometimes we work with half the number of people that should be doing this amount of work. And a comment said, yeah, this is how IKEA is now. They push way too much on coworkers and never have enough coworkers. I work in recovery, which has the same sort of issues. Once the greatest place to work in recovery,

now the worst place, LOL. In the end, always say something. Even though IKEA doesn't care about us, now that Ingvar is gone. So this is another reason I guess why Reddit is cool is that like if you are currently in a cult or working for a cult followed brand and you wanna say something, but you fear retaliation

or you feel losing your job, you can do that on Reddit. So I guess it is a good place for former cult followers to go or current cult followers who want to express grievances without consequences. And this comment about like, Ikea doesn't care about us now that Ingvar is gone, really shows how he was not just a founder, he was a figurehead. He was cult worshiped. He really did treat people like family. Like if you look at kind of the history when he first started, I think he hired eight employees

and every day he would like greet them with hugs and was like very first name basis. So I think overall, like the culture kind of grew from that and was very personable. Like they were very loyal to him. So I think a part of when like all of these Nazi rumors came out, they were like, no, no, no, no, we know you Invar, like we know you.

And so the company really stood behind him in that aspect too. Wow. Another comment on this post said, in America, hourly workers are literally drowning in responsibilities and tasks. And when they don't get done or customers can't find help on the floor,

the managers act like we're not doing enough. I'm so sad. I love working for IKEA, but this no longer feels like working at IKEA. I was really hoping it was just our market. And then this person uses a culty IKEA acronym. I don't understand, but man, sad all around. So another sort of really dark thing that happened behind the scenes at IKEA, according to one Reddit poster named Gato Den Zero CHE, goes like this, in 2022, my brother died and IKEA,

my employer at the time, denied my bereavement leave because their policy doesn't extend to siblings. I then posted to this subreddit to expose their policy for which I was fired for posting on Reddit. Maybe it's against employment agreements. Yeah, like if you had something up that was identifiable and like when your bosses saw that you were talking shit online, that's not good.

No. Oh my God. I mean, there is some on the subreddit too that like you wonder if it's a plant where like people are like, well, my IKEA store is great. We're unionized at my franchise location. So you wonder too, like the good stuff you see on the subreddit, like how moderated is it? Because all these subs, especially if it's a sub

that the brand itself is moderating, like this all could be very curated. Yes, yes. Like the IKEA store itself. Yeah. The maze. The maze. The maze. Hi, my name's Jen. I'm calling from Winnipeg, Manitoba.

And I think my cultiest experience with IKEA is when I was gifted a lamp in my early 20s. And I was told by the person who gave it to me that only IKEA light bulbs are compatible with IKEA lamps. So they gave me a few extra along with the gift, and I just accepted that as fact. It sounded completely true. And it wasn't until a few years later,

I was running errands with a friend and mentioned, oh, we need to stop at IKEA to get light bulbs. And they told me that actually, no, you can just use any light bulb with them. This is Molly calling from the Bay Area in California. And I think the cultiest thing about IKEA is definitely the cafeteria. I love the IKEA cafeteria, full disclosure,

I go there for lunch. If I'm in the area, they entice you with their friends and family free coffee and it's really hard to leave the store without walking through at the very least the marketplace. And they really do make the cafeteria like part of the experience. I can't think of another store or company

where I willingly go just for the food, even though that is not the main purpose that people go to that store. Our family even has friends that go to IKEA every Sunday for breakfast. So we've explored the unexpectedly grotesque corners of the cult of IKEA. I'm sitting here in shock. I'm having an epiphany and now I'm like, I can never eat the meatballs the same way.

We spent like the first half of this discussion just like so happy. I was so pumped. Having the best time. I'm like yay Ikea and then this dark history comes back in my head and I'm like, oh wait, what the fuck? It's bananas, I did not expect this today. But anyway, what a great time,

true to the sounds like a cult tone, to transition into a game. Let's do it. So Credit Where Credit was due, Reese formulated this entire game today. So this is Would You Rather, IKEA edition. So in our culty version of Would You Rather, every proposed scenario is either something

you would encounter as an IKEA cult follower or something you might encounter as a devotee of another cult that we have covered on the show at some point in time. Okay. Would you rather build your apartment's worth of IKEA furniture without instructions or get all of your furniture from the cult of TJ Maxx braving the cult of Raidun Hunters? Oh I got a lot of stuff in my house but TJ Max Maxx is a toss-up, so I think I'm building. I think I'm building. Yeah, no instructions. You trust your skills at this point?

Oh, I'm very handy. I am a DIY queen. I have power tools. I'm locked and loaded. That's good. I'm so rockin' solid, baby. Okay, next would you rather, would you rather only eat plant balls for the rest of your life or only eat Costco pizza for the rest of your life, or only eat Costco pizza for the rest of your life?

Plant balls, hands down, plant balls. She is in. Every time. Okay, would you rather live in a simulated IKEA model floor plan, or have a mommy vlogger following you constantly? Mommy vlogger. Explain.

The simulated IKEA floor plan, it's giving Truman show. And I'm like, mommy vlogger. You're like basically your own mommy vlogger. Exactly. Yeah, I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, it might be nice to have someone else make my content for me.

That's when you know you're in the cult of media. When you're like, can I just actually have a mommy vlogger? I'm actually looking for a producer right now. If some cults are formed, I would give up control willingly. Yes. Oh my God. Completely. Very good point.

Okay. Would you rather have to have an IKEA furniture product in every room of your living space or always have a Glossier product on? Glossier's got good lip gloss. I mean, I could suffer with that. I'd go Glossier. Honestly, same. I figured, yeah, because skincare counts, I think.

Yeah. Also, you can just like make glossier you your signature fragrance. Wear that every day. Ooh, very true. Then all the other glossier girls will smell you in public and you can connect with your spidey senses. Is that how that one works?

That is how that works. I've smelled it on other women and other women have smelled it on me. Oh my gosh. I've smelled it on you, remember? When we went to the Melissa Broder rating. I did. I was just like, girl, deconstruct.

Okay, last but not least, would you rather have to pronounce the name of every IKEA product correctly before being able to purchase it, or post every argument you have for the rest of your life on Am I the Asshole? Oh, I would learn how to pronounce those names real fast. It would be like an episode of Family Guy.

Haven't you heard him like try to pronounce stuff? No. Oh yeah, I'd be like, fika, fika, huga, higa, higgy. I was gonna say like their sales would plummet. Another part of the IKEA immersive experience is like, they're really inviting you to delude yourself into thinking you speak Swedish.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like a theme park. It's like let's pretend we're Swedish for a day. The meatballs with the little flag that you get in them. Oh my god, the nationalism again. I know. It didn't click when I was there, but now that I'm here. It's like cold.

Yeah, there used to be a tiny Scandinavian themed theme park in my region called Skandia. Anyone who's been to Skandia, y'all remember. But now that that's gone, IKEA is kind of the only hallmark of Scandinavian culture I feel like we have in America. Probably put that amusement park out of business. It probably did. Small land is free. Small land is free. Scandia was not. No? Wow. Now it's time for our verdict. I'm going to ask you both, Reese and Morgan, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out. Which do you think the cult of IKEA falls into?

Oh, you know, it's still not super forced upon you. A lot of subliminal messages being sent and some benefits that make you really fall into the trap, but still might be a live your life for me. Yeah, I think having the IKEA family card on my Apple wallet, it would be hypocritical of me to say anything but live your life. You feel very safe in the family of IKEA. I do. I feel held. That's a midsummer line. I say that all the time, but that is actually from midsummer. I feel very held. I feel held by IKEA.

I feel held by Ingvar and the Beatles. I think honestly, not to like operate like a cult leader myself, but I think any IKEA fan should listen to this episode. Yes. Yeah. Because like becoming as aware as we can of the history and psychological tactics of the brands we patronize

is becoming ever important in these increasingly cold times. And I am like so shook by this lore and it's definitely, before we got to this backstory, you saw me, I was about to like spill my blood for Ikea. I wanted in and now I'm like, I don't know. I'm gonna be more cautious. Are you a watcher backer?

It maybe is teetering up against watcher back. Ooh. Well, how much IKEA furniture have you owned though? In my breakup era, I owned that circular mirror that has a little shelf. Okay. You know that? Yeah, I do. It was only a hundred bucks and mirrors like that

are so expensive. Mirrors are so expensive. And I owned an IKEA lamp and I got really into watching decor YouTubers share their favorite Ikea pics, ones that wouldn't like clock you as having- An Ikea shopper. Yeah, as an Ikea shopper. I'm proud to be clocked.

That's beautiful. Well, you're a cult member. So I definitely have patronized the brand. It's definitely meant something to me now I'm realizing, but it's not a full-blown watch your back, but it is creeping up against it. Yeah. Know your enemy a little bit. Know what the maze is.

Know the Ikea effect and be a little careful. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God, Morgan, thank you so much for going there with us on this episode of Sounds Like a Cult. If folks want to keep up with you and your work, where can they much for going there with us on this episode of Sounds Like a Cult. If folks wanna keep up with you and your work, where can they find you? Two hot takes on everything.

I've got a new True Crime podcast coming called Clues, but just tune in to Two Hot Takes to see it all. Amazing. Thank you guys for having me though. Yay! Well, that is our show. Thank you so much for listening. Stick around for a new cult next week,

but in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty! Sounds Like a Cult was created by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore of The Pod Cabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montell and Reese Oliver. This episode was produced by Reese Oliver. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check

out my book, Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and Wordslet, A Feminist's Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network studio, 71. And be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds Like a Cult Pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace has the tools that can help you not only build a beautiful looking website, but engage with your audience and sell anything from products to content to even your valuable time. Thanks to Squarespace's design intelligence,

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