Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Influencer Snark

Episode Date: October 13, 2026

When does hate following become its own kind of devotion? This week, Amanda and Iman descend into the anonymous world of influencer snark, where strangers gather to dissect creators’ relationships, bodies, businesses, politics, and every perceived inconsistency in real time. They get into Reddit groupthink, parasocial “accountability,” the thin line between critique and bullying, and the time suck of doing something from such a negative place. Joining them is writer and influencer Hannah Stella (@hannahstella), who became the subject of an intense snark community during her public divorce. Hannah opens up about being nearly four years “Googling myself sober,” the real life impact of anonymous speculation, and how engaging with snark can chip away at your soul. And fittingly, the episode drops alongside Iman’s new novel Once in a Timeline, a darkly funny Groundhog Day story about an influencer trapped inside the algorithm, exploring the masks we perform online, the loneliness behind the feed, and what happens when your audience knows you a little too well. Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube!Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles, @imanharirikia.  Pre-order Iman's new book, Once in a Timeline, here! Your pre-order helps make more books possible! Sounds Like A Cult is coming to you LIVE from The Elysian in LA on October 15th! Get tickets at soundslikeacult.com! Thank you to our sponsors! Find the card that fits your lifestyle and apply today at https://joinbilt.com/cult Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to https://Quince.com/slac  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dustin from Sacred Symbols here. Have you ever wondered what it actually feels like to have a better laptop like the Dell XPS powered by Intel Core? With its premium thin and light design, it feels smooth in your hands. The responsive touchscreen keeps things fast and precise for easy scrolling and swiping. And with long-lasting battery life, you get non-stop energy to keep working without constantly hunting for a charger. Built for those who want better.

The Dell XPS built for you. Dustin from Sacred Symbols here. Have you ever wondered what it actually feels like to have a better laptop like the Dell XPS powered by Intel Core? With its premium thin and light design, it feels smooth in your hands. The responsive touchscreen keeps things fast and precise for easy scrolling and swiping. And with long-lasting battery life, you get non-stop energy to keep working without constantly hunting for a charger.

Built for those who want better. The DellXPS built for. for you. The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. This person has to be spending like 20 hours a week on my social media. And I don't even know that I'm spending 20 hours a week on my social media. If you look like a fan, move like a fan and talk like a fan, at what point are you actually just a fan. I have always, and maybe this is like a hot take, but I have always gotten like a

kind of female in-cell vibe from super, super hardcore snarkers. Everything that I have said, I have said with my face and my full fucking government name attached. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm Imamon Hariri Kia, author of female fantasy, and once in a timeline, which is out today. And I'm Amanda Montel, author of some other books that don't mad at it today. It's your day, honey, be a bride. No one is watching, but I just took a very dramatic bow. Thank you very much.

We have a small YouTube audience. Yeah. Okay. So to the folks watching at home, every week on the show, we discuss a different group or guru that puts the cult in culture from Lushies to Tradwife Influencers to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? And if so, which of our three cult categories does it fall into? A live your life, a watcher back, or a get the fuck out.

After all, cults and cultish thinking exist on a spectrum. And not all so-called cults are actually bad. You might find yourself engaging in culty behavior by buying up every item in a rare beauty drop because you crave a side of philanthropy with your highlighter. But it can also look like visiting a sacred site where mass atrocities once occurred and haphazardly posting a selfie. Today's cult members dwell in the darkest caves of the internet. Infinite scrolling with post-notifications on, honey, just waiting on the creators they hate to love and love to hate to do something worth commenting on. Today, I'll speak for myself. I am stressed and should have

taken a beta blocker to be discussing the cult of influencer snark. Wow. Amon, could you talk a little bit about your relationship to the influencer snark subculture and what it has to do with your brand new book that's out today? So first of all, I will say that I am also really stressed to be doing this episode despite the fact that I pitched it because I asked quite a few content creator and content creator adjacent friends if they would want to discuss this episode with me. And every single one had the same response, which is that they're so happy that we're talking about this, but that they were terrified to go on the record to comment on it, which kind of begs the question, are we going to end up on influencer snarks of Reddits? Oh, it's so fine. I'm on so much Lexa Pro at

this point that anyone could say pretty much anything. I say that. Oh, God. I also have a parental blocker on Reddit. I actually can't even navigate to the website. So it's happening truly behind my back. Also, I'm not an influencer. So it's really fine. I know. I know. Despite some common misconceptions. Today we are going to be testing our blood pressure and our anti-anxiety medication. But before we dig into the history of influencer snark, Amanda, can I tell you just a little bit about why I was so interested in pitching this topic? Please God. So I originally. I originally mentioned, but my latest book, Once in a Timeline, is out today. And I am screaming, crying, throwing up all the things. But once in a timeline is actually a Groundhawks Day novel about an

influencer who gets stuck in the actual literal algorithm and is forced to live her last day in the life vlog over and over and over and over again in an infinite time loop, which sounds like all of our lives on the internet. Actually, though, but it's such a smart concept for a book. Like, thank you so much. Well, so I first got the idea for this book when I was riding the subway, and lo and behold, we get stuck in train traffic, end up losing service for about 20 minutes. And at the time, I was absentmindedly scrolling on TikTok like any good chronically online person would be. And I found myself watching the same creator's day in the life video over and over and over again, couldn't look away, totally transfixed, and the entire idea for the book kind of

struck by lightning. And in researching the book, I watched hours upon hours of New York City influencer content for research, I must emphasize, interviewed creators about their jobs, which ultimately led me down this dark digital rabbit hole that is influencer snark. Something that I explore a lot once in a timeline is the dichotomy between women who perform for an audience of thousands, but feel so unbelievably lonely and isolated in their personal lives. And snark communities definitely play a role in that. If you want to learn more about my findings, plus read a really fun, in my opinion, zany, twisty, romantic, devastating story about the masks that we all don to survive everyday society. Cultes, I do hope you'll pick up a copy of once in a

timeline this week. It would really, really, really mean the world to me. Hell yeah. And please come to our Sounds Like a Cold live show that we're putting on in Los Angeles to celebrate Amman's book launch. It's happening in mere days on October 15th at the Elysian Theater. And we're going to be discussing a delicious topic, basically just like a Sounds Like a Cult episode live and unhinged and in person. But yeah, so I imagine that a lot of people clicked into this episode because they know all to well what influencer snark means. Maybe they've lurked in the depths of this online call. Maybe some of these listeners consider themselves followers or even leaders. But I feel like we should give some context for everyone listening in terms of what influencer snark communities are.

I first learned the term influencer snark from our co-host Reese, who actually was a participant in snark communities. And I think it's still like a casual lurker. I have never been. But I am aware of them, not too aware. And, Amon, could you help spread some of that awareness before we get into our culty analysis? Absolutely. Back to the school of snark. So snark communities are, as Amanda mentioned, subreddit communities created by users with the sole intention of gossiping about and expressing frustration, criticism, and in some cases,

even mean-spirited mockery, aka snark. directed at public figures, but predominantly female TikTokers and YouTubers. The word snark, by the way, which I think is really interesting, dates all the way back to the late 19th century as a kind of onomatopoeic verb from certain British dialects, meaning to snort. So these snarkers are basically snorting at the social media idols that they anti-worship. A member of the cult of snark would consider themselves a snarker. And basically a snarker is a professional hater. Well, not professional. Does anyone get paid to do this?

Well, you and I do. Other than us, other than the ultimate cult leaders. Well, I've been thinking about this. Like, it sounds like a cult snarking, but I don't actually think so because I'm not an anti-fan of Joe Rogan listeners or Costco aficionados or the members of any other group that we've covered on this show before Swifties. group members, whatever. I'm fascinated by the culty subcultures that we cover on this show and I'm willing to roast them from a sometimes academic perspective. And that roasting is attached to my

full name and my face and my voice. Do you think that it's like a requirement of the cult of influencer snark to be anonymous? Like I feel like subreddit anonymity is a condition of this cold. Absolutely. I think it's in general that snarkers kind of remain this blank mass rather than someone with a name and a LinkedIn profile and a digital footprint. In fact, I think exposing snarkers can even sometimes classify as doxing. And of course, influencer snark groups are not limited to just hate. Sometimes snarkers will simply call attention to influencer activity. And they'll go as far as to compliment or agree. with an influencer. Go as far as to compliment. Kind of a hilarious turn of phrase.

The Ochi Snark subreddit was actually created way back when in 2015. Amanda, remember Tumblr? Of course. It's where I learned about porn. Yes, of course. And it was also mainly the platform used to discuss influencers and bloggers. And those discussions then broke out into these smaller subgroups, which focused primarily on family bloggers, food influencers,

podcasters and more. Okay, so the seeds of the modern day influencer snark, community subculture, cult, whatever you want to call it, were planted over 10 years ago. But from my perspective, I have seen influencer snark really explode in the zeitgeist over the past. I don't know, maybe like three, four, five years. What do you think is responsible for that? I think 10 out of 10 the pandemic, because people were spending a little extra time, doom scrolling online. and they found themselves flocking to these communities.

In fact, in March 2020, the influencer snark subreddit rose 300 spots in the list of Reddit threads with the highest membership. And then that membership doubled between 2020 and 2022, at which point there were over 100,000 snarkers. Yeah, I think that makes sense because, well, so many online cults exploded during the pandemic from alt-rate communities to anti-vax communities to, as it turns out. influencer snarkers, I think it was just a time of intense existential turmoil, unrest, paranoia, political tumult. If you're in your house during the pandemic, isolated on Reddit,

looking for belonging, looking for community, looking for something to talk about, I can see how you might see this influencer wearing a piece of fast fashion and go online to rant about how they are this evil consumerist demon and, you know, maybe come up with some conspiracy theories that they are on the political right, even though they might not be. And yeah, I think that the pandemic was such an incredibly fraught time. And there was a lot of scrambling of like earnest fan and anti-fan behavior as a result of just like the existential turmoil and the political crisis of the time. Yeah, absolutely. And then we also have to mention just the popularization. of TikTok that took off around that same time too. And I think it makes sense why all the popular

influencer snark sub-communities also started popping up. The most famous being the New York City influencer snark, which has almost 95,000 followers in 2024, L.A. Influencer Snark subreddit. And then also the Small Bean Snark subreddit, which is a sub devoted entirely to Caroline Callaway. Again, I'm not enmeshed in snark communities, but they have bubbled up in, mainstream media when something really culty and dramatic happens like a certain influencer being stalked or I remember a few years ago one influencer actually successfully sued some of her snarkers for some defamatory claims that negatively affected her life in a true material way. Anti-fans may or may not even realize the consequences of their potential actions, which are, again,

anonymous and online. But I've been thinking about like top level how influence or snark communities resemble historical cults, more classic cults. And I was thinking like, what even is a cult other than a community of people with a shared hatred of some mainstream establishment? It's true. Members of the People's Temple, aka the Jonestown cult, were basically snarking together on the American government. Some of what they were saying was true and some of what they were saying was and false, and it ended more tragically than any influencer snark community. But I think that sense of like, I have exclusive information about this mainstream figure that I can't stand, that I think is contributing negatively to society in some way. And I want to share that exclusive

information, whether or not it's necessarily fully true. That sense is embedded in so many classic cults from history and it is at the heart of what this cult even is. In a way, it's all that this cult really is because these snarkers are not meeting up in person. They don't even know each other in real life, to my understanding. Totally. And I think it also begs the question then is a 22, 23 year old girl who films her day-to-day life and has made the decision to show up publicly online entitled to the same amount of critique as, say, an American politician. But But before we get into all that, Amanda, do you think you could maybe walk us through the guidelines to being a snarker? Oh yeah. So this is an organized community ultimately. Lusely organized.

Obviously, it's not like a church group, but there are levels to snarking and rules to snarking. For example, the most non-committed member of the starking community, a reformed snarker, otherwise might be known as a casual snarker, is someone who may lurk in some of these. threads, perhaps they would upvote a certain post, but they're not participating that hardcore. The active participants, however, are those who are posting, hoping to potentially gain some attention and upvotes and clout by shouting in the proverbial town square that is their subret of choice and collaborating with other community members on a thread. As I mentioned, there are general guidelines in these subreddits that the moderators might outline. For example,

the subreddit blog snark reminds users to, quote, remember the human on the other side of the screen and not mock appearances specifically. You can't just be mean about someone's face. And if you want to just be mean about someone's face. And I actually do think that those rules that are intended to prevent pettiness or blatant misogyny can have the reverse effect

of creating conspiracy theories because if you just want to make fun of someone's face, you're not allowed. So you have to come up with some other reason to hate them, even if you really just hate their face. So it's like, okay, I hate their whole personality. Is that better? Yeah. Or you can accuse them of getting too much work done, which can then be, you know,

toxic for its followers. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So sometimes it can get actually too deep in a way that might like... In an attempt to be shallow. Right, exactly. So in that way, some snarkers do see themselves as these kind of internet vigilantes, this necessary evil to living on the internet in 2026, their accountability holders, who take pride in their participation as snarkers in a culture that flagrantly celebrates wealth over consumption,

capitalism, inequality. Snarkers are parasocial crusaders. And speaking about that sense of pride that some of them have, in 2025, the journalist Brooke Lamontcha interviewed a bunch of anonymous snarkers for the cut. One participant was mentioning that they believe that snarking addresses a power imbalance in the court of public opinion. Sharing that confirming your distaste for a creator for political reasons, pseudo-political reasons can be validating.

This person said that gossip is a powerful tool. And on the surface, like, I agree. I love gossip. Another member said of their participation in these snark forums that they weren't trying to be funny at someone else's expense. But that their posting does come from a cynical place. They went on to say, quote, There are influencers who are fabricating their lives for quick money. I've worked really hard to be a productive member of society,

and you don't really get recognition for that. But you can get recognition for finding the dupe of a boutega bag on Amazon. So, yeah, I mean, something that I have definitely noticed in these groups of snarkers, I hate to say it, but it's like there's this sort of adolescent, mistaking, being bitter for being punk, going under the bleachers smoking a cigarette and talking behind the back of the popular girl after school kind of vibe. And look, like, I smoked cigarettes after school and talked about popular girls, but these are adults. That we know of. Oh, that's so true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that is

true. Like, I think there are probably some underage people who are so impressionable and getting like inducted into these snark communities. Yeah. And I think it's so interesting that the way that snarkers validate their participation is by explaining that influencers have entered some sort of faustian bargain every time that they post online. And because of that, they're entitled to being policed and they're entitled to these mass critiques. And there's this idea that if snark communities don't hold them accountable, who will? And their quote unquote crimes will go unpunished. But like, they're not committing any crimes that we know of. But also like, it's, and this bridge into a conversation about so-called cancel culture or the thinner margin for error that

female public figures have for making mistakes or for disappointing their followers. You know, we have to mention and continue returning to this idea that these snark communities are primarily women critiquing women. For things that like comparatively in the world aren't that bad. And I get it. It is so fun to gossip about a problem that is not that complicated. Like, it is no fun, and yet it is so important to participate in civic engagement so that our world leaders don't drive us into the ground. You know, we need to have our wits about us and read

the news and read books and get offline and snark on Elon Musk and Donald Trump and all of these terrible men. But again, that's hard and it's unglamorous and it doesn't give you a dopamine boost. Snarking on some girl you followed online for 10 years who got a botched lip flip, that's so much more fun and it can feel like civic engagement, even though it's not. It's just kind of misogyny. Well, so funny that you mentioned that, Amanda, and I want to go back to this idea that all the influencers that being snarked on are not actually committing any real crimes because snarkers also believe that sometimes they've occasionally organized for the greater good and I have some very interesting examples. The Dugger family, oh God, not the Duggers. I hate to bring up

the Duggers because every time we do unsounds like a cult, it's a bit of a mic drop. But the Dugger family was the recipient of a very popular controversial snark page, which focused mainly on the Dugger's promotion of purity culture and fundamentalist Baptist beliefs and the negative experiences with Christian fundamentalism. But after Josh Dugger's 2021 trial for child pornography, the subreddit then exploded and shifted slightly more towards empathy and support for victims of child sexual abuse. They even went as far as to organize a fundraiser for the Children's Safety Center of Washington County. And by the end of 2023, the community had over 174,000 members and it inspired new subreddits for quote unquote fundies, aka Christian fundamentalist influencers.

Sophie Hason of Mother Jones wrote that these subredits could, quote, play a key role in helping ex-fundamentalists re-examine their past beliefs, but that they could also sometimes, quote, go too far moving from critique to bullying. That's helpful. There are fucking tradwifes out there. There are fundamentalist evangelical influencers with way more reach than they. should really have or would have had before TikTok who, yeah, now that I think about it, absolutely deserve to be snarked on. And if a little bullying happens along the way, well,

stop telling women that they should not be able to vote, you know, if you don't want to be bullied. So that's fair. Yeah. And Amanda, I do think that on the margin, the majority of these snarkers are focused on critiquing slash going after the New York City influencers that you have in mind, the LA influencers that you have in mind. But I do think that they would reference these kind of vigilante movements as a defense of the actions that they're partaking in. But the question that I have is like, when does critic sort of waddle into the pool of fan behavior? As friend of the pod, Alex Sujong Loughlin of Defector puts it, snark's subreddits are quote a newer expression of a basic fan impulse. I think that's so fascinating.

which revolves around the belief that, quote, influencers don't deserve the fame, money, or opportunities that they have rather than a quirk of latter-day celebrity. She also pointed out that to be a snarker, you had to dedicate a certain amount of time to observing the subject of your snark, which is such a good point, like how many hours a day are you monitoring these creators, writing, if you look like a fan, move like a fan, and talk like a fan, At what point are you actually just a fan?

Oh, I see. It's like snark slash critique and worship are kind of just two sides of the same coin. But in terms of culty analysis, what I'm sort of gathering here is that this is a community of people that maybe aren't communing on a compound in the woods or in a church, but who do spend a great deal of time around that digital campfire. in these subreddits, maybe are sacrificing real-life human relationships for their relationships with these fellow anti-fans. So you have a kind of isolation or us versus them dynamic materializing. They are extremely ideologically motivated because, again, like, you have to have a sense of

a mission or a passion based on what belief. You don't know these people, you know, like, you're basically like tuning into these TikTok accounts or Instagram accounts the way that a Christian would read the Bible and like interpreting influencer movements the way that religious fanatics would interpret proverbs. And then having those beliefs create a dogma sometimes. I can really separate you from reality, I feel. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really interesting that the instinct to remain anonymous or the amount of snarkers that refer to snarking as a guilty pleasure implies that they know that they're participating in something that's a little morally ethically fraught. Otherwise, say it with your chest. Take it to Twitter. Take it to threads. But do not show me because I have

my parental lock on threats. Yeah. So I think we should talk about some culty controversies with respect to the cult of influencer snarkers. Because I have always, and maybe this is like a hot take, but I have always gotten like a kind of female in-cell vibe from super, super hardcore snarkers. Because of exactly what that participant who was quoted in the cut said, they are admitting that they are coming from a cynical place. You know, in the same way that in-cells are bitter and conspiratorial about women, hardcore snarkers are bitter and conspiratorial about women. and also defend their behavior with the common alt-right in-cell defense of free speech. You know, I should be able to say whatever I want.

I remember watching some coverage of the influencer snark cult by the journalist Taylor Lawrence, who described for the Washington Post that this vast network of snark subreddits is actually a thorn in Reddit side due to their being tied to stocking, doxing, and mob behavior and for frequently devolving into network harassment campaigns against women. Yeah, absolutely. And these examples are definitely the anecdotes that inspired my book. I was really taken aback and flummox by the extent to which some of this fan behavior that then leaks into snark can lead influencers to not only feel lonely isolated, but want to take their lives permanently offline. So in 2025, Munch Snark, which is a subreddit dedicated to influencers accused of faking illnesses,

was banned for violating a Reddit rule against the promotion of hate. According to New York Times, the influencer Snark page had zeroed in on a 25-year-old influencer with stage four cancer. They spent months analyzing the details of her posts, accusing her of faking her cancer for profit and sympathy clicks, and calling her a quote, cancer scammer. This included creating a 28-page timeline noting inconsistencies in her story. And then this was all put to rest after the Times confirmed her diagnosis with an oncologist at a reputable cancer center. Oh my God.

Yeah, this is a classic case of like there are plenty of cancer scammers out there. We've done an episode on the cult of charity scams. I have been deep in this world because one of my very, very best friends in the world is a cancer survivor. And I know that cancer scammers are out there. But mostly people who talk about having cancer online are not cancer scammers. And yet the cult of influencer snark provides such a well-supported stage for the loud, paranoid minority to have a lot of sway. Yeah, absolutely.

And then the question becomes, what happens when this group of people takes it too far? How do you hold them accountable? And what's to be done about it when a new subreddit group can just pop up the very next day? So following the passing of YouTuber Michaela Raines who died by suicide in 2025, there was actually a big debate about the role that influencer snark played in her death. The snark page dedicated to her YouTube channel was made private shortly after and then allegedly completely scrubbed. This led to users petitioning Reddit to introduce even stricter policies around hate, even encouraging them to shut down snark communities once and for all. Oh, God, that is such a harrowing story. And yeah, I mean, it just goes to show where does snarking end and real-life cyberbullying

begins. Exactly. Yeah. Another culty horror story comes from 2023 when this influencer named Lily Chapman filed a police report against an anonymous stalker who she alleged used influencer snark pages about her to harass her across multiple platforms. And as a result, she was threatened, doxed, lost all of her brand deals because of the controversy. She was then forced to hire a private investigator and sent out multiple cease and desists

for defamation against her and her unborn baby. Oh my God. And Chapman has since advised other influencers on how to handle snark and launched a cancel me line of merch. So, I know. I know. Never stop influencing. I know. Even after you get snark done. It's like how do influencers combat online bullying by online bullying themselves? They're such a weird relationship. between influencers and their snarkers. It's kind of like parasitic symbiotic. I don't know how you want to put it because yeah, there are these like horrible horror stories of stalking and death. But I don't know. I can imagine like that there are also influencers who wouldn't necessarily want their snark pages to go away because they benefit from them in some kind of like dark

capacity. It really is like also dystopian and culty and black mirrorish. But I think to get more insight from an actual insider who has had a snark page about her, we better transition into our guest interview. Joining us today is Hannah Stella, an influencer who gained a significant following starting in 2021 for making self-aware day in the life of a housewife videos in New York City, in addition to other influencer content, pop culture, makeup, etc. She then became the subject of one of TikTok's favorite divorce sagas. There was an announcement about her marriage ending, a new relationship, a catamaran, an attempted life at sea, and as you can imagine, a passionate snark community emerged around her content. But she survived, is rebranding, and is bravely here to chat about

her experience with the cult of influencer snark. Stay tuned for after the break. Dustin from Sacred Symbols here, you know when you're in in the middle of a heavy recording session, editing a show, or just trying to get real work done on the go, and your laptop starts slowing down or burning up in your lap, it's the worst. So, what does it actually feel like to switch over to a better laptop, like the Dell XP powered by Intel Core? For starters, it's built with a premium design that's incredibly thin and light, so it feels smooth, meaning far less weight on your shoulders when you're packing up for travel. Then you open it up, and the responsive touchscreen makes scrolling, zooming,

and swiping feel completely fast and precise. Everything just flows. Best of all, with its long lasting battery life, it feels like nonstop energy. You get a better way to work without being chained to a charger all day. Build for those who want better. The Dell XboxPS built for you. Dustin from Sacred Symbols here, you know when you're in the middle of a heavy recording session, editing a show, or just trying to get real work done on the go, and your laptop starts slowing down or burning up in your lap, it's the worst. So, what does it actually feel like to switch over to a better laptop, like the Dell XPS powered by Intel Core?

For starters, it's built with a premium design that's incredibly thin and light, so it feels smooth, meaning far less weight on your shoulders when you're packing up for travel. Then you open it up, and the responsive touchscreen makes scrolling, zooming, and swiping feel completely fast and precise. Everything just flows. Best of all, with its long-lasting battery life, it feels like non-stop, energy. You get a better way to work without being chained to a charger all day. Built for those who want better. The DellXPS built for you.

I brought you WandaVision. I was an Avenger, but I'm not a hero anymore. On October 14th, the Vision returns for the final chapter of the groundbreaking trilogy. That family wasn't real. You sure about that? I had a father called Vision. How is this possible? I don't miss the two-episode premiere of Marvel Television's Vision Quest. Nothing bonds a family together quite like Mortal Jeopardy. Streaming October 14th, only on Disney Plus. Hannah, welcome to Sounds Like a Cult.

Thank you for having me. Hi. Can you please introduce yourself to our culty listeners and explain just a little bit about your personal history with the cult of Influencer Snark? Yes, my name is Hannah Estella. I am mostly a writer in New York. I have a following on TikTok, and my experience with the cult of influencer snark really is based on, you know, I was very active on TikTok when like the NYC influencer snark forum kind of became more prominent. And then four years ago, I got divorced. And at that time, the snark sort of about me really blew up.

And I have not looked at it. I am almost four years Googling myself sober, so I don't know anything that's out there about me. But congratulations. Thank you. Actually, when I found that I was going to do this, I had a friend of mine sort of looks. So I've been told that it's been deleted. But there was a subreddit that was just about snarking on me and kind of speculating about what had happened in my personal life, which was a very crazy. And like in hindsight, I mean, even if it's the right decision, a divorce is like a very traumatic. experience and the sort of public nature and what felt to me like a lot of often bad faith speculation really compounded it. But that said, I also understand where the desire comes from and everything. I don't feel like, oh my God, those people are all just so evil or anything like that. I have, I think, a nuanced view. We'll see. Okay, that's sounding fraught. Oh my God, this is, I should have taken a fucking Xanax before this recording because even just like talking about this stuff raises my blood pressure in a way that I don't think is healthy.

I think that anyone who has ever been publicly personal on the internet has at least a secret fear of everyone talking about them behind their back. And this cult rings that fear very much to the forefront into life. To sort of have perspective on how crazy the influencer snark thing is, try explaining it to a heterosexual cis man. Oh my God. Did you try explaining it to a heterosexual cis man and did they completely discount and downplay the severity of its impact? At first, yeah, my best friend, I explained it to him like sort of when it was happening. And I was like, I feel like a lot of people who I know are looking at it. And he was like, yeah, that's normal.

I think you're overplaying it. And then four hours later, he texted me and he was like, I am so sorry. Actually, there's nothing normal about what's going on. and it's really crazy that anyone you know is like reading this. I had a lot of anxiety for a long time about if somebody Googled me, that this would be kind of the first thing they saw. But it made me feel better because I suspect that it's sort of at a level where most people who start to read it will go, oh, I don't really understand what this is, but I don't think

I should actually internalize it. That makes perfect sense because every time I've ever found myself on anything resembling a snark page or a gossip page, it's been. kind of by accident or I was like looking for something else and like sure it piques your interest as all sort of exclusive salacious seeming idle prattle does but I would feel like so sick about it so quickly that it just made me want to like take a cold shower and get the fuck off this digital compound of sorts as quickly as possible I want to get into as much of your story as you feel comfortable sharing, but on sort of a more general, high-level, influencer snark,

it's not only an internet phenomenon, it's a community and a lifestyle that for some, I think, really borders on a disembodied cult experience. And we're curious what you think is the number one cult-y-est thing about this group. Like, how does it resemble a classic cult in your eyes? You know, I think the thing that to me seems the cultiest about it is I think that there is a tension between what these forums sort of say that they're for, which is kind of free discussion and everybody's sharing their opinion, which I think is very in line with like, I think a lot of cults bring people in with discussion of like spiritual freedom or emotional or financial freedom. But then actually, in my experience, there can be real opposition and things bordering on vitriol for people who are dissenting from what the community has decided they feel about a particular person or even just a situation that a person is in or something that they've been discussing. Yes, the sense of group think on these forums is really, really powerful.

I'm curious why you think these forums have gained such steam in recent years. Like, what do you think it says about the culture or what people are seeking? Why have they gotten so rabid? So I think that they actually started from a place that I think makes a lot of sense and that I don't think is bad. My sort of journey onto TikTok and stuff was when I was married, I was living part-time in Sun Valley, Idaho. I wasn't working and I was just like, oh, I didn't know that anybody's life was like mine. So I made like a day in my life TikTok. And the first one I made ever within like 48 hours, it had like 800,000 views.

And so I mean, certainly like I posted the TikTok publicly. I was open to what happened. But I was not on this kind of slog of like trying to get a lot of attention. And it wasn't really a choice that I made in that way. I sort of felt like, okay, well, my kindergarten teacher has probably seen this. So I might as well go with it. And I've done a few brand partnerships, but I never did. a lot of that. I will post-commissionable links sometimes, but it's really not my job or

like my source of income, like, influencing. But I think that a lot of what influencing is requires a level of non-disclosure sometimes. And if you're doing ads for a product, you're saying that you use the product. And I think that there's some speculation about it. And then I think that also, I will tell you, I mean, you guys are both online. I don't think we were meant to like see our faces and see our bodies as much as we see them. And you become very hypercritical of yourself. I'm 35. So I grew up like right in the like super, super skinny eating disorders were trending. There was a lot of internalized like, you know, the Jessica Simpson size four. Can we believe how fat she is sort of thing? And I think that all women, but like women our age have really

internalized a lot of thought. And I think that when somebody gains, a level of a following, it's almost impossible not to become like hypercritical of yourself. And I think that these forums really started because people were seeing behavior that felt to them disordered. And they didn't want to go into the comments and say like, hey, I don't know you. I've never met you, but I think you have an eating disorder or an exercise problem or what you're doing to your face is crazy. But they also are contemporaries of the people. that they're viewing and have their own like history with this stuff. And I think they just wanted to say like, is anyone else seeing what I'm seeing? And it's not even necessarily meant as a criticism, but just like, this is bringing up something in me. And I'm wondering if it's because I'm seeing something or if it's because of something in me. And I think that that was really the genesis. Yeah. It's so interesting because obviously we're living in this like really uncanny time when our relationship to what community even is is really distorted by social media and forums like Reddit. And so it used to be that if you

saw someone in your relatively small community who you wanted to gossip about, you would talk with your neighbors and friends behind their back, IRL. They might pick up on that IRL snarking, but they were not there to hear every single last thing that you said behind their back. Now, are we in community, in scare quotes, with all of the people that we're gossiping with on Reddit? Are those our neighbors and friends now? Are we really talking behind someone's back when you Google your name and the first thing that shows up? Are all of these anonymous comments about you? Like, I think this says something about the loneliness epidemic and where we are going.

Because what is gossip? It's like we're exchanging information. We're gut checking our values. We're like establishing in groups and out groups. And I think our relationship to those intentions has become really fucked, for lack of a better word, in the age of the internet, because like you're really not supposed to hear the truly mean things that people say behind your back. Hannah, I'm so curious based on just something that you said, I'm really interested about this idea of influencer snark as like a silent contract between the public figure. influencers, content creators, and the public consumers, so the audience, the followers, people on

these apps. Do you feel then that snarking is somewhat of a necessary evil to hold creators accountable? I don't think I would say that exactly. I think that this kind of goes into like a further question on the internet. Like I do think that if you're saying things publicly, you are inviting a level of critique and criticism. And all, art and public works is in conversation with society and with other works. And so I think that there's an element of that that is a part of all of this. But also, I don't think that most people's intention most of the time is to cause real damage. I think that they're thinking of it just as like, I'm getting this out. And I think that, you know, you said gossip needs to serve a purpose.

Certainly, like, there's such thing as like very vicious gossip. But like I say things to my sister and my friends that I wouldn't want to be said publicly. My sister and I have like a joke where we're like anything I say behind your back, I'll say to your face, but it's not my first choice. But I think the public and then anonymous nature of it causes at times some very real damage to people that there is no way for anybody to be held accountable for. And also like going further, certainly there are exceptions. I don't even think most of the time the person writing it intends to cause the damage that it can cause. Because it's not just that if you write something about me, I can read it. You know, you hear a lot of the time things like, oh, well, she needs to get off

the internet and get a real job. And I'm not saying that's impossible to do, but like, okay, now whenever you go apply for a job and employer Googles you and there's hundreds of pages of bad stuff. And like, what does somebody do about that? This is another thing I think these snark forums have in common with bona fide, more classic cults, if you will. It's famously hard to hold cult leaders accountable unless they do something like truly criminal such as trafficking people, committing sex crimes, financial crimes, whatever, because they can always defend that the people that they were manipulating were consenting to that,

participating voluntarily. It's also famously really hard to hold. snarkers accountable even when they're engaging in stalking, defamation, because they're anonymous. And I know that people have used Reddit or like sued Reddit even or like Reddit has come into defamation lawsuits and such. But Reddit is kind of this like protected entity and this entity that protects all of its mini cult leaders and followers and snarkers because it's anonymous. Hannah, I also was really caught off guard when I was cruising the influencer snark subreddits and researching this episode. How much these pages are getting updated in real time.

Like every time I would refresh the influencer snark page, I was shocked that it would be updated to react to something that had been posted, you know, as recently as a few minutes ago. And the reactions were all live. And I just couldn't help but think, like, this is such a time-consuming cult to be a part of. Like, how are people keeping up? So I want to get in a little bit to what you think the costs are to being a snarker. I mean, this is my intuition. But I strongly suspect that there is a small minority of power users who are very engaged in trying to do this stuff in real time. And then most of the people just want to read what other people are saying.

And then another large group of people, they're browsing the subreddit and they see something that they want to respond to, but they're not kind of like trying to be involved in. When I was really like the subject of a lot of snark, it seemed like there was nothing I could do or say. And actually, the amount of time that it takes to keep up with me or anybody with this stuff was actually the first way that I made peace with it. Because I was kind of like, oh, this person has to be spending like 20 hours a week on my social media. And I don't even know that I'm spending 20 hours a week on my social media.

But I do think, and I hope that this doesn't sound condescending to those people because I really don't mean it that way. But I think that you can become addicted to the feedback and the negative energy that you're creating. And I think you can stop and heal from it. I don't mean like you're condemned. But I do believe that does something to your soul, sort of consistently focusing on your dislike. Really anything over time, like really does something to you that's bad. And I think that's a really high cost. And it usually comes from some other wounding.

Yeah, we've drawn the parallel on many episodes of this show between being, you know, really deep in an addiction and really deep in a cult or a cult-like group. And it is true that Freud's catharsis theory was wrong. And by like screaming and raging in order to exorcise some demon of anger in you, that doesn't work. Like screaming and raging and expressing anti-fan sentiments for hours every single day is only going to make you better at screaming and raging and expressing anti-fan sentiments. Just the way that like doing a bump of cocaine is only going to make you want to do more cocaine. You know, so like there is something about just like the simple act of engaging in increasing amounts in this cult of sorts that's going to inherently draw you deeper and deeper and deeper. It's fascinating too the way that people will often speak about quote unquote indulging in influencer snark is very similar to how people will speak about being very intelligent but watching a lot of reality TV. Like, it's a guilty pleasure for so many quote unquote intellectual people to engage with this kind of discourse.

And I'm really fascinated also about how if this amount of collective power was being used for something that could actually benefit the greater good. Like, snarkers could take over the world because snarkers have been like so efficient when it comes to rallying behind taking an influencer down. They've been efficient when it comes to like coming together to raise money for organizations that have been impacted or hurt by influencers. Do you think that there are, if any, like rituals or ritualistic behaviors that are being performed by these start pages for better or for worse? Online, I feel like very often people are committed to saying some sort of a view or opinion and agreeing with it that on its face sounds very enlightened or progressive or feminist, but it's not any of those things. And it's also something that if you said to a rational person who is not on the internet, they would never think that that was a normal thing that made sense to say. And it is like cult logic, cult mental gymnastics. And I've seen this on these forums too. The ritual that comes to mind for me, or I guess it's a linguistic ritual, but I guess that's all there really is on a snark page. You know, they're not like dancing in a circle midsumar style. Like all there is is like anonymous sock puppet emoticons and English words. But when let's say you get the ick about an influencers decor, you don't like their house. You think it's ugly. You think like they have all this money. Why would they spend it? on this like millennial gray fake wood, laminate, and whatever else.

Instead of just expressing that on its face kind of like mean girl critique, they will come up with some kind of moral or political justification. When they really just want to say this person gave me the ick because who knows why, some psychological reason maybe that person triggers them, who knows? But because they know deep down that it's not nice to just say like, I hate that person's fucking house. They have to come up with a political argument for what is wrong with that person's house. Another example that I think is connected to that is snarkers have an obsession with accusing influencers' partners of secretly hating them. This is like a phenomenon that dates back to the

origins of influencers snark. And I've seen them justify the critique by saying, well, you know, this preaches unhealthy relationship standards. This is going to teach like young girls following them. that they should engage in toxic relationships. They weaponize therapy speak to justify basically bullying these people out of their private relationships that are obviously not being spelled out for them online. Yeah, it reminds me of like when some woman posts some like real toxic bullshit that her boyfriend or husband does. And like my policy has always been like, I actually made a TikTok about this one time.

I would never like get in the comments. But if you go on the internet and tell me that your fiance is a scrub, I'm not above it. I'm going to go to your Instagram and I'm going to look and I'm going to see who this guy is in his little basketball shorts with his backwards hat. Like that is what's going to happen. And I think that's normal. But then all of the comments on these videos every time and often these women are not influencers will be like, let me guess like you're not going to leave him.

We don't know your whole relationship. And like it's under the guise of feminism. But it's so anti-feminist. And it is true that like none of us are perfect all of the time, which is why I think you probably shouldn't be posting like the bad stuff that your partner does on the internet anyway. But then it gets into the critique of like, oh, now you're sanitizing everything. So whatever. We don't know their whole relationship.

But also even if he is as bad as he seems, which like I don't think isn't true, attacking the woman about that and saying like, you should be stronger, you should leave, you should do this. You're a dumb bitch because you even. got into this situation is inherently, in my opinion, misogyny. Yeah. Well, I'm curious, Hannah, if that's the case, then who do you think the actual leaders of this cult are? Like, is this just a disembodied group waiting to jump on the bandwagon of whatever critique du jour is gaining popularity? Or are there clear, distinguished leaders, who are the followers? Are there sort of like enemies of the cult or

outsiders that exist on the outskirts? Yeah, I mean, I would say like the influencer is the nemesis of the cult. Like, I do think that there's an inherent level of, I don't want to say fondness exactly, but I think that there's a level of anti-fondness that isn't exactly like hatred or enemy. I don't like read this stuff, but nobody's snarking on Erica Kirk in these forums, who is like actually, in my opinion, doing some very real damage. Yeah, we should be snarking on Erica Kirk, but where's the fun in that? Right, exactly. There's no way that any snarker could actually have an effect on what happens with Erica Kirk.

But a snarker could very well have an effect on what happens to an influencer and that probably makes them feel powerful. Yes. Also, I like what you said about how there is a certain fondness for influencers because I do think that in some ways there's a symbiotic relationship between influencers and snarkers because the snark couldn't exist without the influencers. So where does the line fall between like Stan, fan and snark? I think it's complicated. I mean, I think that very little of it is intended to have a lot of the negative effects on the people that are snarked about that it has. I think people

really forget that influencers are real people and most of them don't have the kind of of like team and protection and media training that a celebrity would have. I think that sometimes it does get authentically malicious. But I also think often that comes from like group sync and like how fun it is to like pile on and people are making jokes and then you like come up with a really good joke. And so you want to like share your funny joke even though you know like this is really like going too far. It seems like the influencer is almost the god.

figure of, you know, a sort of like a god, an idol. The relationship to this person is not necessarily worshipful, but in a kind of ugly way, it is worshipful. So from my perspective, that's kind of the role of the influencer. Do we think the cult leader changes by the day? Like, is it whoever's comment is blowing up? Is that person like the cult leader of the day? Or is it Reddit itself? Is that the ultimate cult leader or is that the compound, the gathering space? Like, who is it? You know, like on Reddit, you have a username and there are upvotes and downvotes and karma and all of that stuff. And I think that the leader is not a central figure, but I think it's the person with the identifiable username who always has the quips who's always like on it. And then that person's opinion, which again, like I don't read these.

So I can't name them. I don't know who they are or how many they are. But I think that those people are probably really like the leaders. I don't know if they're the mods or not. But I think it's the ones that like people go, oh, like this girl always has a take. I do feel like the moderators do hold a lot of power, though, because they have the ability to sort of silence snarkers if they need to or want to. Yeah, it's true.

When this was like a big part of my life, how I really felt was I've been wrong so many times in my life. I'm not Caesar's wife. Like I don't feel that I need to be like a. of any criticism. But everything that I have said, I have said with my face and my full fucking government name attached. But yeah, I think a sort of defining feature of snark is anonymity. And we're out here, face out, tits up, name in bold.

Amanda and Amon, I guess. But Amanda, can I ask you a question? Because you've been doing this for a long time. And this is snark related. Do you find that people who listen to this podcast or follow you, have a much longer and more detailed memory for what you have said than you do. Because this has happened to me where like, I've said something and I've been like, that's what I think. And they're like, well, that's different than what you said three years ago. And I'm like,

probably. Oh, yes. Oh, no. A hundred percent. The example that comes to mind is, you know, every week we classify that episode's cult subject. So, you know, at the end of this episode, we'll determine whether influence or snark is a live your life, a watch you back or get the fuck out level cult. And we are determined. that cult classification based on a general rubric, but we're also just kind of basing it on intuition and whatever mood we're in that day. Like, it's not science. I hope and expect that that's obvious. But sometimes, yeah, someone will say like, I can't believe you classified Costco as a live your life when you called IKEA, oh, watch your back. And I'm just like, babe, I don't know.

first of all, I love it and I'm fascinated that people have taken this cult classification system seriously. And there are days when I take it seriously too. But at the end of the day, we got to take it with a grain of salt. It is for entertainment and it is for cultural criticism. But it is just the loosest, most lighthearted framework, which is, you know, that's a lot to hold in your head at once because it is a cult podcast. I don't know. It's a wonder that anyone likes this show. But it is interesting to note that in a lot of ways, your snarkers are also your scholars. Like, they have to study you and hold all information about you at the forefront of their mind at all times. To be studied this way.

It's almost flattering. Almost. Almost. I was an Avenger, but I'm not a hero anymore. On October 14th, the Vision returns for the final chapter of the groundbreaking trilogy. That family wasn't real. You sure about that? I had a father called Vision.

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My guests think they know the answer. Sometimes they do. More often, they do not. And then the conversation takes a turn. One trivia question turns into stories about career highs, painful bombs, and behind-the-scenes moments that probably should have remained private. You'll hear confidence, misplaced confidence, bold guesses, wrong answers, quick laughs, and the slow realization that maybe this was a bad idea to say out loud.

If you like smart comedy, sharp conversations, and trivia that exists purely to melt people's brains, this is Funny You Ask with me, Ike Barrenholz. Follow Funny You Ask with Ike Barrenholz on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Okay, we have a couple more questions for you. So this question could get to a heavy place, but what do you think are the most devastating effects of the cult of influencer snark?

And maybe you could even speak about this from a personal place or however you want to answer this question. But like, in terms of our ability to classify this cult, we want to get a sense of the worst case scenarios. Yeah, I mean, I want to speak just for myself. but I am a writer. I write personal essays. I don't talk a lot about the details of my personal life, but I talk a lot about the detailed feelings of my personal life. I had a pretty difficult childhood, and I've written quite directly about that. And I mean, I used to write twice a week,

but it's hard for me now to even get like one or two out a month because I do feel very paralyzed by a minority of people who are reading what I write that are responding that way. And also, like, some of my essays are bad. I don't know. And I've written things that I don't have that opinion anymore. And I'm glad that this came up, even though I do not like speaking about it. And I feel that a lot of the criticism has been a bit unfair. But I don't feel like I have been a victim. And I don't want it to come across that way. But it has had, like, a very real, effect. And I think that's the way that it's harmed me the most. And I think it's my responsibility to work through that. Like I should be writing more. It's my job to write more. But it's created this

real, I hate to use the word trauma because it sounds like such a silly, trivial thing. But it's been really hard for me in that sense. No, I think that is trauma. I mean, we as human beings are meant to look to other people's opinions of us to figure out who we are and if we're being accepted by our community, which again, uncanny concept, what even is our community in the digital age, in the age of snark. In the surveillance state, too. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And to have like all of this feedback, which again is like a minority of people in the world and these people don't really know you, but our sweet stone age brains and bodies don't know that. To have all this feedback from all these people saying like really, really negative, harmful things about you, like I think that is

traumatic. It's like being bullied, you know, like that's so hard. And specifically the way that it's affected your writing. I mean, I relate to that. I feel like Goodreads sometimes get snarky. Yeah. I think earlier in the episode, Amanda, you mentioned the loneliness epidemic and Reddit sort of forming as an answer, a community solution to the loneliness epidemic for people who are just sort of showing up online. And Hannah, you talked about how like it's really easy for Starkers to forget that influencers are real people and not these less commercial properties. Something that I really explore in Once in a Timeline, my book that came out this week, is the idea that there is a dichotomy between the ways that influencers show up online and what's happening in their own lives

too. Many creators start making content because they're so socially isolated and because they're also looking to form of community. But oftentimes they end up gaining all of the these quote unquote followers, people who are supposed to be interacting in good faith, but are ultimately leading to that sense of loneliness and isolation. And it can be like so detrimental to their mental health and contribute to different mental illnesses. So I really appreciate you coming on to talk about this, Hannah, because I do think it is such a complicated and all-consuming cult.

If our listeners want to follow you and your cult, where can you? Can they do that? In good faith. Of course. In good faith. Yeah, I'm Hannah Stella, the same username on Instagram, Substack, and TikTok. I'm definitely most active on Substack and Instagram now. Thank you so much.

So, Amanda, out of our three cult categories, a live your life, a watch your back, or a get the fuck out. Where does the cult of influencer snark fall on the spectrum? I'm afraid to say it, but I think it's. It's like, get the fuck out. I'm so glad you said that because I was going to say get the fuck out too. I'm a little afraid of reaping the consequences. I just, I don't see how the pros outweigh the cons. It's just not nice or healthy.

We need people to have their brains in tip top shape as the techno apocalypse approaches. And we need people to be like in real community together. This is not that. might seem like that. It's maybe an uncanny hologram of again, of community, of civic engagement, of belonging, of ritual, but it's not that and I don't

like it. And so in my opinion, in my personal opinion, allegedly it's to get the fuck out. And even if these snark communities can do things like defend influencers or ask for protection of their privacy

or even in sometimes in some cases come their defense. The consequences of the opposite actions can be so dire and so devastating and so traumatic. I don't understand why people can't just keep it to their group chats. And if you have no one to text about an influencer, maybe that's a sign that you should be diverting your attention elsewhere. Email us. Sounds like a cult at gmail.com. Seriously, if you need to vent to someone, we love it. We love it. Yeah, we can handle it. Agreed. Everyone, by Buy Amon's book, once in a timeline, available now where all books are sold, including an e-book and on audio.

Come to our live show if you're in Southern California. It's on October 15th. You'll have the time of your life. You can meet us, hang out, get a book signed. Here's some stuff on stage that you would never hear permanently immortalized on the airwaves. I am so excited. Thank you guys so much for all of your support. I can't tell you what a difference it makes. Amanda, thank you so much for allowing me to do this spooey-spooky episode. Truly a precursor to Halloween. Well, Colties, that's our show. Thank you so much for listening. Join us for a new cult next week.

And in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culties. Sounds like a cult was created by Amanda Montel and edited by Jordan Moore of the Podcaven. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montel and Amon Haririakia. Our coordinator is Meg Farrell. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book, Cultish, the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, The Age of Magical O overthinking, notes on Modern Irrationality, and Wordslet, a feminist guide to taking back the English language. Thanks as well to our network studio 71. And be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds Like a cult pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad-free at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult.