Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Jeep Owners

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

What is it about Jeeps that inspires such intense devotion? In this week’s episode, Amanda, Chelsea, and a special guest listener dive into the world of Jeep culture—a community that goes way beyond just owning an off-road vehicle. From the infamous Jeep Wave and secret handshakes to brand tattoos and entire lifestyles built around rugged independence, we’re breaking down the cult-like loyalty that Jeep enthusiasts wear like a badge of honor. How did a military vehicle evolve into a global symbol of rebellion and freedom? Is it just marketing magic, or something deeper? Buckle up as we explore how this rolling status symbol became a lifestyle—complete with rituals, rites of passage, and a strong dose of obsession. Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube! Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles.  Thank you to our sponsors! Start earning points on rent you’re already paying by going to https://joinbilt.com/CULT Head to https://www.squarespace.com/CULT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code CULT Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to https://Zocdoc.com/CULT to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today.  Find exactly what you’re booking for on https://Booking.com, Booking.YEAH! Please consider donating to those affected by the Los Angeles Fires. Some organizations that Team SLAC are donating to are:  https://mutualaidla.org/ https://give.pasadenahumane.org/give/654134/#!/donation/checkout https://shorturl.at/SGW9w Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Did you know, Tyler, that Jeep owners have a secret wave called the Jeep Wave, solidifying their membership in Jeephood? I am a big fan of the Jeep Wave, and there's some unwritten rules as well. The newer Jeep waves first out of respect for... the older Jeep. There's also another layer past that, and it's how modded and dirtier Jeep is. Say there was someone driving a same Jeep as me. I would then go, is their Jeep bigger than mine?

Is it dirtier that they take in an off-roading? And if so, then I need to wait first out of respect that they're using their Jeep for what it's intended for. Cult hierarchy is alive and well in Jeep culture. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm Amanda Montel, author of the books cultish and The Age of Magical Overtinking. And I'm Chelsea Charles, an unscripted TV producer. Every week on this show, we discuss a different group or guru that puts the cult in culture, from chiropractors to K-pop, to try and answer the big question.

This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? And if so, which of our three cult categories does it fall into? A live your life, a watcher back, or a get the fuck out. After all, not every culty-seeming group these days is equally nefarious. On this show, we scrutinize and poke a little bit of fun at the contemporary cultish spectrum. How, in an age when affiliation with traditional religion is declining, people are directing their worship toward all kinds of other stuff for better and for worse, like cult followed celebrities, or wellness brands like Goop and Lulu Lemon,

or niche internet cults like family vloggers, or culty. rubber duckies and car clubs. If the words Jeep Wave, duckie and winching mean nothing to you, they're about to. This cult goes deep. It is rich. It is a bastion of rituals. From the creative team behind the brutalist and starring Academy Award nominee Amanda Seifred

in a career best performance, Searchlight Pictures presents the testament of Anne Lee. With rave reviews from the Venice Film Festival, this bold and magnetic musical epic tells the story inspired by a true legend, Anne Lee, founder of the radical religious movement, The Shakers, the Testament of Anne Lee.

Exclusive Toronto Engagement, January 16th, in theaters everywhere, January 23rd. Let's get into it. Yes, today we're talking about the cult of jeeps. Jeeps aren't just any vehicles. They're a lifestyle, a mindset, and dare we say it, a religion. Jeep owners belong to an executive.

exclusive club, and listeners have been requesting us to cover it forever. You're finally getting your due, Jeep owners. I love how the culties just want to be roasted. It's very BDSM. And then they get mad. It's a complicated show. Yeah, it's very complicated. I love it. From their rugged design to their off-road adventures, jeeps have become symbols of freedom and rebellion. They are. They're a symbol. And you're about to learn so much more about what that means, because today's is an interview, a listener formatted episode. We did a couple of these last year. We did

one for the cult of cruise ships. We did them for the cult of teachers. It's so fun interviewing culties. Yeah, but also this is honestly, I'm not going to lie, my favorite style because I just love having that outside perspective. Outside, but inside.

Inside. Inside. Inside. No, I, like, there are so many different potential kinds of guests on the show. Like, sometimes we have on other podcasters and that's great because they're like used to being on a microphone and they kind of have like a bit that they do and it's like easy to edit and then sometimes we have a journalist and the tone of those episodes is like a little more educational but I'm with you I love it when we interview someone who's like actually in it because it's juicy yeah and you know I live for the actuality

I want a man on the inside to give me all the good goods yeah what's really going on 100% culture. Not someone who's like media trains, someone who's here with the unfiltered 4-1-1. I am an unscripted person. Oh, period. That's what it is. That's it. That is Ed.

So in order for us to talk about the history of Jeeps, we've got to go way back. And I'm talking way, way back. Back to World War II. In 1940, the U.S. Army needed a light recouns in its vehicle, so the U.S. government sent specs over to 135 companies, but ultimately only three responded. Bantam, Willie's Overland, and Ford. Not long after, Willie's Overland eventually won the bid. That's the company that ended up producing jeeps for both soldiers and civilians,

and this military origin story really set the tone for Jeep culture and lore for decades to come. However, in the post-war years, Willis struggled financially and was acquired by Kaiser Motors in 1953, leading to the brand being renamed Willys Motors Incorporated. By 1963, the Willie's name was dropped entirely, and the company became Kaiser Jeep Corporation. In 1970, Kaiser Jeep was acquired by American Motor Corporation, which expanded Jeep's civilian lineup and solidified its rugged, off-road identity. The Jeep brand continued to evolve through further acquisitions

with Chrysler purchasing AMC in 1987. insuring Jeep's legacy and continued under a major automotive powerhouse. The origin of the name Jeep is still up for debate. Okay, etymology. Let's go. Go ahead, etymology. Some believe the name comes from soldiers mispronouncing GP, general purpose vehicle. That's how the name of Goop came to be. Because it was a play on Gwyneth Paltrow's initials, GP.

Oh, I didn't know that. Goop and Jeep. Oh. There's got to be. There's a connection. And others claim it was inspired by a character from Popeye the sailor named Eugene the Jeep. That's sweet. Over 640,000 jeeps were produced during World War II.

They became legendary for their ability to handle any terrain, earning nicknames like the soldiers' best friend. Whoa. Jeeps were so reliable that soldiers joked that they were the only thing that could survive the war without a scratch. Oh, that's a big thing. promise. That's a huge promise. In my mind, I guess it's because we live in Southern California, and forgive me, I'm not in the cult of Jeep. So I'm learning, I'm growing, and I'm sure this is going to sound silly, but I think of Jeeps as like the Malibu Barbie vehicle of choice. But they are. They're like a utility military vehicle. You can do anything with a Jeep. In 1945, the first

civilian Jeep was born. Named the C.J. 2A. What a wonderful name. Realt off the time. Equipped with tailgates and side mounted spare tires. It was marketed to farmers and outdoorsy types with ads

showing jeeps crossing streams, climbing mountains, and even plowing fields. Rugged. Exactly. By the 1950s, the Jeep had made its way to Hollywood through TV shows and movies. They were famously often featured in the TV show MASH, a sitcom set in an army hospital during the

Korean War. Finally, in 1986, the beloved Jeep Wrangler was released. Yeah. The one we all know in love. The chariot. Yeah. Yeah. Now, Chelsea and I can look up all the info that we want about Jeeps, their origin story, the lore.

But in order to truly understand this cult, we knew we really needed to interview someone in it. Enter the listener that we hinted about earlier. Tyler Yesman. We put out a call on our Instagram for listeners who are in the cult of Jeeps to email us, submit, why they wanted to be on the episode. Thank you to

everybody who emailed us. We love you. We perceive you. We respect you. But we hope that you enjoy this interview with Tyler who is here to spill that unfiltered, real authentic tea about the cult of Jeeps. Here we go.

Today, joining us on our exploration of the cult of Jeeps is a listener and a follower of the sounds like a cult called Tyler. Hello, Tyler, and welcome. Thank you for joining us. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. Tyler, do you want to tell us about your personal relationship with the alleged cult of Jeeps? Yes. I guess a really important story of my Jeep history is I grew up in Metro Detroit, which is the automotive capital of the U.S.

So in Detroit, everybody has a brand. Generally, people are working for those brands, but it's one of the big three. So it's Chrysler, which Jeep falls under Ford or GM. My family was very loyal to the Chrysler brand. And so I grew up all around Jeeps. My dad, he works as a pilot, which he has a really weird schedule. He flies a week and he's home a week. So growing up, he would actually restore Jeeps. So as a kid, I would help him work on Jeeps. I would do inventory out of our basement selling old Jeep parts. When I was 14, we picked up a Jeep from the junkyard. restored it for my first vehicle. Ever since then, I'm now 26. I just sold my Jeep. This is the first time in my adult life that I haven't had a Jeep. How does that feel? It's a weird feeling.

It was tough to do, like take that step, but I'm glad I did it. It made sense. But yeah, I've been around jeeps for most of my life, working on them, driving them, off-roading them, etc. Got it. Okay, so for your family,

it was very much like, this family grew up Episcopalian, this family grew up Methodist. You're like, we grew up crisis. I mean, that's kind of how it is around Detroit. It's like, oh, you're a Ford family. Oh, you're a GMC family. And I mean, you can tell because, you know, everyone's house, they have more or less the same brand.

It's less like that now. I feel like brand loyalty was more of a thing in the early 2000s, late 90s. That's very true. It's interesting, though, that like so many life milestones can be marked with a certain car brand's culture. Like getting and restoring your first Jeep was like a coming of age. for you. It totally was. So we would love if you could just off the bat give your hottest take out of all of the aspects of Jeep culture, the rituals, the pride of driving a vehicle that lends itself

to danger, the sort of like carefree get up and go anywhere attitude, the status symbol element. What do you think sets Jeep owners apart from other car enthusiasts as a sort of carefree get up and go anywhere attitude? members of a cult. Oh, that's such a good question. One of the big things with jeeps is compared to other car enthusiasts, specifically like in the off-roading world, you know, Toyota Tacoma is all sorts of pickup trucks. Jeeps are extremely customizable. You can really make a Jeep your own. You can build it any way you want. Every Jeep can look different. And there's all different generations of Jeep wranglers or even CJ's going back. CJ stands for civilian Jeep. But really, I think it's this Americana aspect. you know, Jeep was started for World War II or during World War II. And still to this day, Jeep is

kind of pushing that Americana aspect in their messaging and their marketing. And I think that's a big draw. At least it was for me, it was for my dad. Other brands don't do that as much. So I think that kind of what sets Jeep apart. Yeah, Chelsea, I don't know if you feel this way, but from what I've gathered so far, just like thinking about Jeeps, reading about Jeeps. I pick up this like sense of heroism that Jeep owners tend to have a little bit. It's like, oh, you need help hauling your stuff. You want to go surfing. You want to go sledding. You want to get out of town. You want to survive the apocalypse. I got you. I got the jeep. I got it. I also think just kind of breaking the fourth wall a little bit, I think it's super interesting that you know so much about the history of the car

that you drive. And I feel like that plays into the allure that is. is driving a Jeep, right? Because I drive my car. I don't know anything about the history. But the fact that you know that it was started in World War II just says something about the culture of owning a Jeep. Totally. And I think car enthusiasts in general seem to know the history of their vehicles, but there seems to be a particular emphasis on Jeep history. And I think that's because it's part of the brand, definitely more so than I would say other car brands or car enthusiast groups. Yeah, and I also find the juxtaposition so interesting between its origins as this rugged, you know, military vehicle that could save lives through a potential apocalypse and the kind of

romance of like, let's ride down Route 66, you know, like it's almost like Jeep is there for you in good times and bad times. No matter what you're going through, like Jeep will be there. And that Has like a sort of religious, ritualistic undertone to it. There's just like so much lore. Totally. Tyler, I have a friend who drives a Jeep, right? And one day I was just riding passenger with her and she does this like secret little thing with this other jeeper.

And for a second I was like, oh, do you know that person? And she was like, no, it's just like a thing we do. So did you know, Tyler, that Jeep only. have a secret wave called the Jeep Wave, solidifying their membership in Jeephood. According to a blog post by Brand Jedko, there are a few theories that can explain where the wave originates, but I just want to know if you've ever experienced that. Yes, I am a big fan of the Jeep Wave. And there's some unwritten rules as well when it comes to the wave that we can dive into.

Tell us. I want to hear. Okay, so first I want to clarify, saying Jeep, we're talking about like Jeep Wrangler and Jeep CJ is not necessarily like the more SUV vehicles. Those are the ones with the Jeep wave. First up is the age of the Jeep. So the newer Jeep waves first out of respect for the older Jeep. And any Jeep enthusiasts could tell the age of a Jeep by just looking at the grill and

like which generation it is. Okay. I remember as a kid, I would like get upset when a new Jeep owner would pass me. I was driving an older Jeep at the time. It was a 1997. And I would have to wave first because I would still want to get the wave. And so at the last second I would wave. if they didn't wait first.

You're like, I want you to bow, bitch. Yeah. When I drove my dad's little Jeep, he has an 85. I mean, I was always getting waves first and that because no one was driving anything older than that. Oh, I didn't know that layer. That's so dope. There's also another layer past that, and it's how modded and dirtier Jeep is.

So say there was someone else who was driving a same Jeep as me, I would then go another layer to be like, okay, is there Jeep bigger than mine? is it dirtier that they take in an off-roading? And if so, then I need to weigh first out of respect that they're using their Jeep for what it's intended for it. Thank you so much for this. Cult hierarchy is alive and well in Jeep culture. I love that it's unspoken.

I love that it's grassroots. It's not like anyone from the top down is mandating that so-and-so wave or praise hands this Jeep for this reason. And it's kind of this like self-authored cult dynamic that is hierarchical, sure. But so far I kind of dig it. It's really interesting because in 2008 Jeep released the Ford Orr Wrangler, which made Jeeps become a lot more accessible to families. And so as a result, the Jeep wave actually started deteriorating because a lot of people

were buying into the Jeep community without realizing that it was this specific community that had these sort of rules as well. So I would notice it certainly like newer Jeeps would tend to waive less just because they necessarily just bought a Jeep because it was a good family vehicle that you could take the top off and it was fun rather than realizing that there's also this community that comes with it. So they're like removing the good culty bits from it. Yeah. Chelsea, do you want to talk about some of the theories as to the Jeep Wave's origins?

One of the theories, according to this blog post by Jedko, says that the Jeep Wave started back in World War II when soldiers would wave to one another in solidarity while driving jeeps on patrol or for transportation. The second theory is that the Jeep wave started after the war when returning soldiers purchased their first CJ or VJ models and waived to acknowledge one another for their honorable service. And then the last theory is that the wave started much later in the 1960s and 70s with the event of off-roading culture as a way to salute another kindred spirit. So, I don't know, pretty interesting. Who knows where it started, but it's a little culty. Totally. A much discussed backstory adds to the richness of the ritual. If you are listening to and even enjoying this episode of the podcast and want to go deeper,

I have a book recommendation for you. This is your host Amanda, by the way, and the book is called The Age of Magical O overthinking, and I wrote it. I poured one. I poured one. heart into this book, and I really think you might like it. It's about delusion and obsession in the information age, and how the ways in which our minds naturally work are clashing with our current culture. Every chapter explores some confounding irrationality from contemporary society, including extreme cycles of celebrity worship and dethronement, mass embrace of Instagram manifestation gurus during times of crisis, and why our bodies sometimes enter literal fight or flight in response to something is objectively non-threatening as a curt email from a co-worker.

The book blends social science with pop culture analysis and personal stories. And if you prefer audiobooks, I recorded mine myself. So it's kind of like an extension of the podcast. Again, the book is called The Age of Magical Overtinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and it's available wherever books are sold, your local indie bookstore, bookshop.org, Barnes & Noble, or even that one massive online book retailer run by a co-leader. You know the one. So if you enjoy this podcast, I really hope you'll consider checking out the book. Tyler, you're already using in group terminology like modded. Do you talk a little bit about, you know, what that means and why offroading or evidence of offroading would make a certain Jeep owner more elevated within the cult?

So jeeps are highly customizable. When you go and buy your Jeep, one of the big things Jeep owners do is they'll lift their Jeep. So they'll change the suspension out so they can have bigger tires, which one, makes it better for offroading. It gives you more ground clearance so that you can go over larger rocks, obstacles, et cetera. And two, it just makes your Jeep look really cool. And then you can do all sorts of other things. I had a roof rack on my Jeep. You could put lights on your Jeep.

You could change out bumpers. There's all sorts of physics into why this is better for offroading. But to be honest, I think most people do it because it just looks cool and it makes the Jeep look like your own. I've had two different jeeps. One was a 1997 and then one was a 2015. And I customized both of them. And honestly, I wasn't off-roading much at all. I was still using it as my daily vehicle.

So whenever I did go off-roading, it was super fun. But in terms of the time commitment to off-roading versus on-road driving, it was like 98 to 2%. And what does it feel like to drive a car like that? Like, are you hoping that other people see you with reverence? Are you concerned that people are going to gape at you? you agog, like watching the Hari Krishna's chant through the street? Like, what does it feel like? I think it feels super cool, especially like in the summer being able to take the top off,

the doors. I was definitely an annoying teenager and would like blast music driving around with the top off. But my most recent Jeep was a bright yellow Jeep. So that seemed to get a lot of attention. So, Tyler, do you have any ducking stories that you could share with us? For my Jeep, no, because no one would duck my Jeep. and it made me feel kind of self-conscious. I don't know why.

Why wouldn't people duck your Jeep? I don't know. And it was bright yellow. Most rubber duckies are yellow. I don't know if it's a thing out here in Washington or not. I'm more in the city. Maybe that impacts it. But my dad has certainly gotten a handful of ducks on both his old Jeep and his new Jeep as well

that he drives daily. My mom bought him a little rubber duck that is flying a plane that he has on the top of his Jeep. All right. But for those who have no fucking idea what we're talking. about Chelsea, like, please help us out. Ducking started as a random act of kindness by a Jeep owner name Allison Parliament in 2020 during the COVID-19 pandemic. While traveling through Alabama, Allison purchased a pack of rubber ducks and documented

herself randomly placing ducks on parked jeeps. This trend was pretty popular and many Jeep owners across the U.S. joined in on social media creating hashtags duck, duck Jeep and Jeep ducking. Yeah, so it seems to me, I mean, we've gotten requests to do the cult of jeeps sporadically over the years. It does come up every few months. You know, the Jeep owners are like, perceive us. And the number one thing that they always talk about, the number one ritual or evidence that Jeep culture is cultier than the average community of car owners is this ducking thing. And to put it, simply, it's literally just like Jeep owners putting rubber ducks on other people's cars for

free as what, like a little talisman of like solidarity and belonging and loyalty and whimsy. You know, it's just like a rubber duck. Like it's so cute and sweet. Could you maybe analyze a little bit what this ritual symbolizes about Jeep culture at large? Oh, that's such a good question. So if you like another person's Jeep, putting the rubber duck on it symbolizes it. So as a Jeep owner, back to your Jeep and there's a rubber duck on it. You're like, oh, that's so cool. Someone drove by and they saw my Jeep and they liked my Jeep. I had a bag of rubber ducks that I would use and put on other people's jeeps. Generally it'd be if it was a Jeep that was more lifted or like modified. But it's kind of similar to the Jeep wave in a way. It's just acknowledging

another jeeper and saying like, hey, I like your Jeep. That's cool. And I guess differently, this time, like they usually your Jeep's park so you don't see the person looking at your Jeep. Oh, so it feels almost like a ghost. Elijah on Passover. It's a little. spiritual because you can't see who did it. But it's new, right? Like, it just came up during the pandemic. So that's very interesting that Jeep culture is evolving. Totally. Yeah, very new. Dang, I want to start a ritual now. Start one. You know what I'm saying? Think about the legacy that Allison has left. The ducking thing? I think it's cool. It's very cool. And it's, again, so cute. Like, they're just little rubber ducks, you know? And I think the fact that it's inspiring

you to want to start a cult ritual, says something about this cult in general. So far, I don't know, actually, now that I'm talking it out, I'm like, maybe I'm a little suspicious. Like, it's almost too cute. You know, it's so cute that it's making other people want to start cult. Like, what's going on? So, Tyler, a large part of the Jeep cult is the car club culture. And I have a lot of good friends who are in Jeep clubs. Were you a part of any Jeep? car clubs. I did have this experience where I accidentally joined a Jeep club in Utah. That was like a one-time thing. So I wouldn't call myself a member of that club, but I happened upon this club while renting a Jeep and just kind of self-integrated into their culture. You went in a Jeep club,

Tyler. How did you trip and fall into a Utah Jeep club? There's this more extreme version of off-roading called rock crawling, which is you take your Jeep up these steep 60, 45-degree inclines, and you go like half a mile an hour and it is the most terrifying thing in the world it's very popular in Utah or really out west in general and it's a big aspect of the Jeep culture you see it a lot on social media when you start looking at jeeps and we spent a year in Utah my girlfriend and I and we went down to Moab where there's lots of off-roading trails and we rented a big lifted Jeep and I was like oh let's go try one of these intermediate trails I had no idea how hard it was going to be and we showed up and it's just like straight down and you can feel the blood like run

rushing to your head as your foot is like on the break and you're going super, super slow. And all of a sudden I was like, wow, this is really extreme. In front of us, there was 15 or so jeeps, all lifted, all modified. Some of the craziest, like, customizations I've ever seen. And interestingly, it was all older people in their 50s or 60s, people that do it for, like, a retirement activity. And some of their jeeps were over $100,000. They were extremely customized.

And they were just like, oh, yeah, hey, come join us. and we offroated them for a few hours. I think we went like two or three miles. It was very slow going. And then we would just like stop and get out of our jeeps and talk. It was a really interesting experience. But after a couple hours, we decided to leave because we thought it was a little extreme for us. So obviously we all know that car clubs often offer a sense of belonging and community,

which is a common reoccurring theme within Colts. on the Hammett Jeep Club website, a Jeep Club that's based in Hammett, California. The mission statement reads, The Hammett Jeep Club is a family-friendly organization dedicated to off-road fun. Our club meets on a monthly basis for meetings, raffles, and runs within the California area and sometimes surrounding states. Started in the 1940s, the Hammett Jeep Club is one of the oldest car clubs in America with over 70 families involved and a member base of all ages. So obviously I went on the website and I

peruse a little bit just to see what kind of initiatives they had going on. And I found that they had like a president and an e-board. Like this is a well-established car club because obviously it's very diverse in a sense of there are some Jeep clubs that go offroading to what you were describing. But then there are like kind of like corporate-esque Jeep clubs. They had events and community service. They would meet up monthly to do road cleanups, which I thought was super cool. And then they did off-road runs, obviously, and then scavenger hunts, holiday scavenger huts. So, I don't know. I thought it was super cute as well. Like, similar to the ducking aspect. Like, in dissecting this cult so far, I've only found fun loving. I know. I like want to buy a

cheap, Loki. But I would feel major imposter syndrome. But here's the thing, and this is what I want to get into next, is I feel like from the impression I've gotten, there is a valid way to participate in Jeep culture. That's a little bit the pop culture inspired side. And I want to talk about that. So Jeep's, as listeners may know, first made their grand debut in Hollywood in the mid-1950s and have remained in the spotlight ever since. So my first time I ever saw a Jeep and felt kind of enamored by it was in Steven Spielberg's 1993 film adaptation of Jurassic Park where jeeps were one of the main focal points of the film, also yellow, rubber duckie, quack, quack.

It said that jeeps were chosen because of their durability, their functionality, and iconic design. That's why they felt like the right car to fight dinosaurs. And they have since become a beloved part of the Jurassic Park fandom in general with enthusiasts of the film restoring and customizing wranglers to match the movie's designs. We found in a blog post on Motor Design that Karen Lichtenberg, who's a member of NPR's coined term the Jurassic Park Generation, admitted that as a five-year-old, she watched the beloved Jurassic Park series and became obsessed, so much so that she promised herself as a little girl that one day she would have a Jeep Wrangler of her own.

Quote, they drove across the screen and I said, I want one of those. And so it was. Lichtenberg built her very own Jurassic Park replica Jeep after finally purchased. purchasing one in 2014. So I would love to know from you, Tyler, how do you think Jeep's prominent place in pop culture has contributed to its cult following for better and for worse? Yeah, I think it's really broaden it to a wide set of audiences. Obviously, I come from more of like the camping background of Jeeps, but there is this beach community. There's Barbie as well, and then there's Jurassic Park as well. And it's the coolest thing, whenever you see Jurassic Park

replica Jeep. I've seen a few just driving around before and just like, holy cow, it is super cool. So jeepers think it's cool. Jeep owners are down. Yeah, especially because that generation of Wrangler, it had square headlights, which is the only Jeep to do that. And it's just this really wacky Jeep. And Jurassic Park just adopted it and brought it into their movie and kind of, I guess, saved that generation of the Wrangler because that generation of the Wrangler wasn't selling super well. I think it's brought in it a lot. You know, within the Jeep community, there's all these different sub-communities and different ways to get involved, whether it's just taking your Jeep to the beach or like you said with Jurassic Park. So I think it's positive. That's beautiful to hear.

So Tyler, as with any super successful cult brand, there will be controversy and Jeep is not exempt. You know that already. Are you aware of any scandals that have befallen the Jeep brand or community. Scandals, no, but I certainly have my opinions and experiences with cons, I would say, but I'm not aware of any scandals. Okay. Enlighteness. I want to hear. So one of the big things with specifically the off-roading Jeep culture is there's this well-known, I guess, fact within the Jeep community that jeeps are kind of money pits. And you can spend so much money not only repairing, but just customizing your Jeep. And it just seems like it never ends. And that was one of the big reasons why I wanted to get out of the Jeep community temporarily. I'll probably end up backing it at some point. But I was

spending a lot of money customizing my Jeep and I felt like I've always was like kind of chasing this dream Jeep build. And then in general, I'd say more modern jeeps have had some reliability issues and build quality issues. And it's interesting because Jeep has this marketing aspect of being this built tough, dependable, reliable vehicle that comes from World War II. And then historically, I would say as a consumer, I've noticed like quality decreasing over time, which doesn't really align with that. Yeah, when you were describing the car club that you accidentally joined and how there were these like $100,000 modded builds, am I getting the terminology right? I was just thinking like, this could literally be like the Winchester haunted mansion, you know, that mansion in California

or that like widow just built it her whole entire life and it was never finished and she became like cursed by it or to make a culty comparison. This is not the same, but it's like, in Scientology, you can never go clear. They will find a way to make sure you never go clear. And so I can see how like if your identity and your hobbies and the way that you spend your time is really wrapped up in achieving that perfect Jeep that doesn't exist, you could find yourself flailing at a certain point and also maybe even in debt. Totally. I feel like that does happen a lot. I feel like that does happen a lot. And certainly, I think if you go on boards or communities, you might see some people really losing money on their jeeps. Because, you know, you can invest all this money into it.

But then you go and sell it, you're never going to get the money back on the upgrades and customizations that you built because you did that for yourself. Yeah. All right. So we've been glowing about jeeps. This is starting to be like a Jeep commercial. This is a sounds like a cold episode. And so we've got to get the dirt. No pun intended.

Let's talk about some culty Jeep controversies. We do want to touch on two scandals that have befallen Jeep that kind of made their way into mainstream news. Obviously, like, so many brands that I use every day have more scandals that I can even name. But for Jeeps, we're just going to talk about two that we were able to find doing our due diligence of exploring every culty corner of this brand and what that could mean. So the first sort of scandal, if you will, regarding Jeeps has to do with, a criminal conspiracy. So like many other automakers, Jeep has faced criticism for its role in contributing to greenhouse gas emissions, particularly as it specializes in SUVs and off-road vehicles, which do historically

have lower fuel efficiency. However, in 2022, there was a little bit of a PR crisis. William Stapford for car expert reported Jeep and RAM were fined more than $400 million for diesel emissions cheating. So Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, which as we know, the parent company of Jeep pleaded guilty to criminal conspiracy after the company had been charged with making false representations about diesel emissions and more than 100,000 U.S. 2014-2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee and RAM 1,500 diesel vehicles. So I guess my question for you, Tyler's, we're just really curious about the relationship between Jeep owners and the company itself. You know about the history and like there's obviously a lot of solidarity among Jeep owners.

but is there a relationship to the company Jeep? And does it serve as a cult leader role of sorts at all? I would say no. At least in my personal experience, what I was tied to, what my dad was tied to, was the historic story behind Jeep, the Americana aspect, the World War II vehicle that could do it all. And then the CJs too, it wasn't really tied too much to the modern Jeep brand, especially because, I mean, new vehicles are so expensive.

So I was always buying an older Jeep. So, yeah, I didn't feel very tied to it. That's interesting. If you're deep, deep in the cult of Jeeps and have, like, a lot of reverence for it, you might value vintage cars more than someone who, like, just became interested in Jeeps and wanted to buy something new that ended up being one of those vehicles that was wrapped up in this scandal. Can you think of another car brand where, like, there's a, well, as I'm asking the question, we already know.

Can we think of another car brand where? the people who drive that car have a cult leadery amount of worship for the leader. And ironically, it's the brand that is purporting to save the world from greenhouse gas emissions. And of course, that is Tesla. So that is an interesting comparison because Jeep the company is not portending to be saving the world. They're just like, oh, we're like this all American World War II. We're two-birth boy-next-door kind of vehicle, whereas a brand like Tesla is portending to save the world. And that is another level of cultishness beyond just like, oh, the Jeep wave, that's weird. Yeah, totally. And with the brand of Tesla, obviously you have Elon Must too, and there's no

Jeep person equivalent of that. Oh, you're right. Which is all of that, that point that we're kind of making now is not to say that our car brands should not be held accountable when they lie about emissions or when they're manufacturing cars that are contributing to the climate crisis that is now burning down Chelsea's in my city. But analyzing it through the lens of a cult, a brand is taken to another level when it has that charismatic leader who is forward facing, clearly power starved and is kind of like dominating the culture, whereas we've been making the point this whole entire episode, a lot of what's culty about Jeebs was governed by the people. That said, we do have to address one other controversy that can't really go unsaid with regard to Jeeps. So since the 1970s,

Jeep has used the words Cherokee and Grand Cherokee as names of its models. In more recent years, the native Cherokee Nation has called for Jeep to cease usage of the name. stating that it perpetuates racial appropriation in an article on CNBC written by staff writer Michael Wayland, the principal chief of the Cherokee Nation Chuck Hoskin Jr., says that regarding the brand, quote, I think we're in a day and age in this country where it's time for both corporations and team sports to retire the use of Native American names, images, and mascots from their products, team jerseys, and sports in general. I'm sure this comes from a place that is well intended, but it does not honor us by having

our name plastered on the side of a car. And then in an emailed statement from Jeep, the company stated that they are, quote, committed to a respectful and open dialogue with Cherokee Nation principal chief Chuck Hoskin Jr. And that the names have been carefully chosen and nurtured over the years to honor and celebrate Native American people for their nobility, prowess, and pride. So it was kind of like, we hear you and we're ignoring you. So I guess, has there been like discussion among Jeep owners about this aspect? Totally. So my thought is, you know, the Jeep community is the Jeep Wrangler community. That's where a lot of the revenue comes from.

That's where marketing is, et cetera. So it's weird that they said, you know, we hear you. We're not going to change it because, I mean, changing it isn't going to have much of an impact within the community. Or I don't feel like it would be negatively perceived because they're kind of subset vehicles. Like the main Jeep is the Jeep Wrangler. That is super interesting because I was just thinking about Jeep the brand. But to your point, the camaraderie and the club culture that's associated with Jeep is 1,000% the Jeep Rangler. And so that wouldn't encompass those other ones.

I wonder why. But I guess this is like a larger question about leadership at Jeep and values that the average Jeep owner might not be aware of or might not be connected to because I just keep thinking about Elon Musk, right? There is not a single Tesla owner who doesn't know what Elon Musk believes. Weirdly, this is a culture that is in a way just as fanatical, just directing that fanaticism in a very different way that is more, again, grassroots. They're not looking up Jeep owners from what I can tell.

And that might not always be good. I mean, worshiping the leader of a car company is absurd, in my opinion, and look how far it's gone in the case of Elon Musk. But turning a total blind eye to the leadership of this brand that you do buy and support and whatever. I'm not saying you, Tyler, but I'm saying, like, for all of us, I do feel like as we, become a more conscious culture. It is our responsibility on some level,

not to just totally ignore the people and the values that are manufacturing the products that we consume. But it's hard. It's so hard. Okay, Tyler, I've one more question for you before we transition to play in a little game. And that is, what do you think the number one cultiest thing

about Jeep that you've personally witnessed is in a negative sense? And what is the number one cultiest thing you've witnessed in a positive sense? I feel like there is a pressure and judgment based on how much you off-road your vehicle and how built it is within the community. And I would say that's more of a negative aspect. The positive aspect is whenever I see someone who has a Jeep, I know instantly I have something in common with this person and I can talk with them. Last year, I was driving by my favorite restaurant.

This guy was parked on the street with another bright yellow Jeep, the same generation as mine. I was just driving by and I decided like, I had to pull over. So I pulled over and I got out of my car and I started talking about. We talked for like 30 minutes. He ended up having like a YouTube channel about his Jeep. Our Jeep's looked very identical in terms of like customizations. So just having like something in common with another person to be able to talk with them.

This sense of community is I think the most positive thing. And that's another reason why eventually you get like an older Jeep would drive around for fun to be part of that community again. That is so wholesome. So now we're going to play a game. So obviously Jeep owners have a lot of quirky behaviors. We're going to read you a little. list of Jeep related anecdotes and you're going to determine in your opinion if one is a red flag,

a green flag, or a beige flag, aka something that may be odd but not necessarily bad. Round one. This example comes from the Kendall Dodge Chrysler Jeep Ram blog and the example has to do with the endless modifications. So the blog post reads, quote, a true Jeep lover's work is never done. Because it's not just about the Jeep you buy, it's about the one you build. From lift kits to lockers, winches to sliders. There are just so many goodies to be had, hence the extra respectful wave given to drivers of seriously modified jeeps. All Jeep lovers understand the work that goes into it, and they know that's all part of the fun. Well, clearly not all, because Tyler deserves more wave. Anyway, the sort of endless modification aspect, do you think it is a red flag,

a green flag or a beige flag. I think the endless modifications is a red flag. I'm more of the school of thought that you should just modify your Jeep however you want. And maybe that's not modifying it at all. If you just buy a Jeep and that's good for you or if you just want to add a lift kit or a riff rack to it. But this idea of endlessly modifying your Jeep and always improving it, I think it can just be toxic and lead to never being happy with your Jeep.

Never being happy? Yeah, that's a red flag. Yeah. But if you're able to put an end and just like customize the Jeep, however you're like, if you want, green flag. Dang, I'm not going to lie. I'm a little shocked by that red flag. You came in hot.

Tyler came ready to play. Okay, so the next one has to do with Jeep bumper stickers. It's extremely common to don your Jeep and bumper stickers that reference all kinds of insidery buzzwords and mantras. For example, and these also come from the Kendall Dodge Chrysler Jeep Ram blog. It's a Jeep thing you wouldn't understand. Stock Jeep's worry me. I'd rather be winching than working. Paved roads are a fine example of needless government spending. Life is simple. Eat, sleep, Jeep. I love that one because it rhymes. I may be topless, muddy and lost, but never stuck. And the last one, following me. Good luck with that. Oh, my God. Some of those have like a very sort of like anarchical, low-key, like libertarian a little bit, energy. Just like, I have.

I don't need roads. Roads? All right. Red flag, green flag, beige flag. What do you think? I think that's green flag. They're pretty funny. I mean, some of them are kind of cringe, definitely. But, I mean, my dad had, it's a Jeep thing on all of his jeeps for so long. It is an amazing tagline. Did some advertising agency come up with that tagline? It's a Jeep thing. I don't know where that came from. But it's been around since I was a kid. I remember one year for Christmas I got it's a Jeep thing sticker to put on my first. cheap. But yeah, there's all sorts of like funny bumper stickers. I think they're green flags. They're funny. I feel like there's a new wave of obsession with like putting stickers on your water bottle and your laptop. They're kind of like bumper stickers. And I really feel like when I was a teenager, I didn't have a lot of bumper stickers on my car, but I thought it was cool when other people

did because it told me exactly who they were. And so if your identity is all wrapped up in being a member of the cult of Jeeps, how could you resist covering your car and bumper stickers? Yeah. Okay. The next three Jeep anecdotes come from listeners who, just like you, wrote in for this episode. Oh, wait, one of these is from you, Tyler. We're going to make you categorize yourself. All right.

I'm very excited. But the first one is not. So the first one is from a listener named Zoe or maybe Zwa. Not sure. But they say, I am a culty Jeep Wrangler owner, Hee. My grandpa owned an LJ two-door Jeep for decades. so the cult runs deep in my family. The single most culty thing about jeeps are the people who buy a 100% stock Jeep and buy their own ducks.

I know this is true because I have owned my Jeep for three years and never once been ducked. So this listener is claiming that there are people who just buy stock jeeps and duck themselves. Is that a beige green or a red flag? I mean, I think it's a green flag actually because I guess that's what my dad did. My mom ducked my dad with this specific plane duck. And then actually when I got my Jeep, my girlfriend and her friend put like 50 ducks on my Jeep. So I've been ducked by people I know, but not by other people in the community. Also, that two-door LJ is like the coolest Jeep in existence, in my opinion.

Okay. So I'm very specific. They only made it for two years. So the fact that this listener's grandpa had that, super cool. They're really valuable and just really cool jeeps. All right. Shout out. Zwa's grandpa.

This next one comes from Lily. Jeeps in Edna, Minnesota, where she's from, are a classic example in showing off wealth. Often I would see rich private school kids with jeeps putting all the windows and top down, blasting country music out of the car like they were not kids from the Midwest. Moms of rich kids would have jeeps similarly as a status symbol. There were particularly a lot of white ones, moms and jeeps. And the moms who had them usually would be accompanied. by a matching white tennis skirt and visor.

So what do you say, Tyler? Bage flag. I think that culture exists, certainly within Jeep community, especially in 2007 when they released the Fordora Wrangler because family started buying into it. Where I grew up, there was certainly some of that. I wouldn't say it's a positive or a negative thing. It's people making the Jeep their own thing. But, I mean, I'd like to say Jeeps are for everyone and there's all these subcunities within it.

Yeah. If you want to make your Jeep toxic, make your Jeep toxic. And that's what you're like. Do what you want with your Jeep. before we booked you for this episode when we were just like putting together these different examples we did pull one from your email so we're going to make you categorize yourself some listener named tyler says i had a cool experience in utah where i was adopted into this group of hardcore jeepers for a day when they saw us offroading alone getting adopted by a random utah jeep car club

red flag green flag green flag i know you already talked about it but it was just so much fun and The fact that these people do that regularly, and it's like how they spend their weekends and their time. And it was just cool to see that part of the community. Okay. Famously, though, you were like, this is too much and you left. True. So I know my boundaries. It's a little too extreme for me, but it's cool to experience.

I'm not a rock crawling. Boundary king. All right. It's starting to feel like a watcher back. I don't know. That is so funny. Tyler, thank you so much for joining us for this interview. We really feel like we explored.

the many facets of this call. Where can listeners keep up with you and your antics, Tyler? So I don't post a lot of Jeep content, but I do post a lot of outdoors and, like, hiking content on Instagram. You can find that at Tyler underscore Y-E-Z-M-A-N. T-Y-L-R underscore Y-Z-M-A-N. Maybe I'll post some Jeep stuff. There's certainly some stuff in my YouTube.

If you're curious to see my Jeep builds, I had a 97-T-J and a 2015 JK, and then my dad had an 85-C-J. So, Chelsea, out of our three cool categories. Live your life. Watch your back. And get the fuck out. Which one do you think the cult of Jeeps falls into? Okay. I feel like Jeeps will fall into the watch your back category for me because of just the scandals that are associated with it.

But also, I think they can be a little unsafe because of the unsafe driving practices that the brand promotes. Oh, yeah. We didn't even get to talk about this. but we did come across an article from like 10 years ago in The Guardian. It's titled Jeep Cherokee ad ban for encouraging unsafe driving practices. That was basically like glamorizing, offroading in a way that is not safe or recommended for the average driver. And that just goes into the whole culture and messaging of Jeep as this larger than life, capable of anything type of car where it's like, the Titanic sank, babe. That it did.

It's also so interesting the personification that even storytellers give jeeps because in TV, and we talk about in Hollywood in MASH, in Indiana Jones, in Jurassic Park, the Jeep represents the heroism. It represents something that's strong. It's indestructible. And people see that in movies and think that you can behave that way in actual real life. life. Totally. That's not real. Yeah. And this reminds me of something that you were saying that I found so compelling and continues to live rent-free in my head when we were recording the Hallmark Christmas movies episode, which was like as our culture in general gets more polarized and high-temperature

and fraught, brands that might have been a live-your-life 10 years ago or even two years ago are offroading into watcher back territory, like high key. Because I think when people feel lost and scared and uncertain, they put more and more stake and trust into brands, especially the ones that make larger than life promises, like Jeep. I think honestly, the things that make Jeep look culty on the outside are a live your life. The wave and the ducky and the whatever, even the little clubs and stuff,

that's a little bit live your life because it's sweet, it's community, it's belonging. but everything is just starting to get a little watcher back here in our culture right now. It's so silly to use that terminology seriously, but like maybe it is a watcher back. I'm just saying. But I also appreciate not always being so aware of the things that the brands you patronize are doing that might be problematic or unsafe or fucked up. We can't be so hard on ourselves when we don't know that we might be participating in a cult

brand, like living in the information age. I just personally feel like you'd, don't know what you don't know. You can't beat yourself up about not having the information. But what's most important is when you have that information, what are your next steps? There's a lot to keep track of. There is so much. But also, we all have iPhones with the knowledge of everything that's happening in the Congo. But what are we going to do? Are we not going to have devices that we rely so heavily on? Yeah. What happens next, you know? I know. And this is another piece of evidence that our culture is getting cultier. It's so hard to avoid not supporting a

cult followed brand these days when like late stage capitalism is out here late stage capitalizing. You know, that's the dumbest thing I've ever said. But like brands that become household names, become household names for a reason. It's because they gained a lot of power and they leaned into a culture. And odds are if everyone has heard of a brand, they've done some pretty fucked up shit. What are we to do about that? It's not that there's nothing to do about that. No, there's definitely something to do, but you have to have the information first in order to make an informed decision on what your next steps are. It's not about just being blind to what's going on, but it's about, okay, now what are the next step? Yeah. It can really get you down, like trying to be an ethical consumer in 2025.

Yeah. You know? Yes. I won't be buying a Tesla. Fuck that. Girl, fuck no. No. Muskie is not getting my business. It's hard. Yeah, I'm going to stick with my 12-year-old busted. You see my car. No, but it's great for the environment.

The fact that I never leave my house is also great for the environment. Anyway, that is our show. Thanks so much for listening. Stick around for a new cult next week. But in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty. Sounds like a cult was created by Amanda Montel and edited by Jordan Moore of the pod cabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montel and Chelsea Charles.

This episode was produced by Chelsea Charles. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book, Cultish, the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show.

You might also enjoy my other books, The Age of Magical O overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and Word Slut, Ephemort, Ephemeral. guide to taking back the English language. Thanks as well to our network studio 71. And be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds like a cult pod, or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad-free at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult.