Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Love Is Blind

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

Would you sacrifice your phone, passport, dignity, and freedom to move into an isolated pod for 10 days and compete against a sorority of strangers in search of True Love™, all for a world of fiendish reality TV consumers to see??? Sounds like cult behavior to me!!! This week, just in time for the Season 6 premiere, we’re FINALLY covering the cult of Love Is Blind, one of the most ~radical~ reality dating shows to have graced the airwaves. We’re joined by former cult member… ahem, I mean, contestant… Stacy Snyder to discuss the pros and cons of this objectively cultlike approach to marriage. To preorder a signed and personalized copy of Amanda's new book, The Age of Magical Overthinking, click here :) The first 10 listeners to DM their proof of preorder to @soundslikeacultpod will be sent a free sticker featuring the SLAC logo! For book BTS, news about Amanda's forthcoming Magical Overthinkers podcast, and more, consider subscribing to her newsletter! Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod @amanda_montell Thank you to our sponsors! Go to HelixSleep.com/CULT and use code HELIXPARTNER20 for 20% off all mattress orders AND two free pillows. Head to Squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, go to https://www.squarespace.com/CULT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Head to FACTORMEALS.com/CULT50 and use code CULT50 to get 50% off.  Dipsea is offering an extended 30 day free trial when you go to DipseaStories.com/cult. 

We are so excited to be partnering with Helix. Helix is offering 20% off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners. Go to helixsleep.com slash cult and use code helixpartner20. This is their best offer yet and it won't last long with Helix Better Sleep starts now. Dipsy was our very first sponsor here at Sounds Like a Cult

and we still love them. For listeners of the show, Dipsy is offering an extended 30 day free trial when when you go to DipsyStories.com slash cult. That's 30 days of full access for free when you go to DIP, S-E-A, stories.com slash cult, DipsyStories.com slash cult. Thank you to our sponsors Squarespace. Start with a free trial at Squarespace.com. It's where dreams become websites. Head to Squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to HTTPS colon slash slash www.squarespace.com slash cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Factors delicious, ready to eat meals, make eating

better every day easy. Head to factormeals.com slash cult 50 and use code CULT50 to get 50% The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host, Amanda Montell, author of the books Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism and the forthcoming The Age of Magical Overthinking out April 9th. Every week on the show, you're going to hear about a different group or guru that puts the cult in culture, from Amazon to wedding culture. To try and answer the big question, this group sounds like a cult, but is it really?

And if so, which of our cult categories does it fall into? A live your life? A watch your back? Or a get the fuck out level cult? After all, the word cult is, say it with me, up to interpretation. Cults fall along a spectrum. Today we're talking about the cult of the reality show Love is Blind. And I know what you're thinking. You're like, Amanda, relax. It is just a popular reality television dating

show. It is not a cult. You've gone too far. Okay. I hear you. But listen, the truth is, I am not the first nor will I be the last. Why do I sound like I'm recording slam poetry right now? I am not the first nor will I be the last to make this comparison between cults and love is blind. This has been a highly requested episode topic and I never really got it until recently now I know why. And I thought it'd be the perfect time to finally do this episode with season 6 of the show having just premiered anyone watching.

Stick around because we're gonna have a former Love Is Blind contestant on the show to spill the tea, to divulge her personal experience, to clear the air. Cult survivor girly, Stacey Snyder. You're gonna get to know Stacey a little bit better during our interview, but just for some background, she did actually fall in love on the show. She did get engaged to a guy named Izzy and they went through the whole rigmarole of the show. They didn't end up getting married. Stacey declined and that brought on

a little bit of culty backlash. You will hear more about that later. So hang tight for that. Now we've covered some reality TV quote unquote cults on this show before. We've covered The Bachelor on this podcast. We've covered The Real housewives, both undeniably Colt like franchises on both the side of the production and the side of the fans.

But you gotta ask, what makes Love is Blind stand out in terms of cultishness from other reality shows? Now, a bit of a disclaimer, real talk. This is one of those episodes of Sounds Like a Cult that's like, I don't know, 28% sincere cult analysis and maybe 72% fun, not that deep pop culture gossip. We had our Cult of Catholic Schools religious trauma episode last week, so mixing it up with something a little lighter this week. So know relax grab a glass of wine put it in one of those creepy metallic opaque wine glasses that they have on Love is Blind do your laundry drive to the

gyno no do not drink and drive anyway sit back this is gonna be chill chatty vibes today and I hope you enjoy first let's take a look at the origin story of Love is Blind we can't forget Love is Blind first premiered in February 2020. So it was a lot of people's first pandemic binge and people got obsessed, hooked. They really seem to redirect all their early pandemic anxieties into devouring this show. This is the show's setup.

For 10 days, straight men and women hoping to find a spouse through deep connection, having nothing to do with looks, go on these blind speed dates that are truly blind quote unquote, because they're in these so-called pods, these little rooms, where they can talk to their dates through a speaker on the other side of a wall, but not be able to see each other. They start out by going on a bunch of these speed dates, get to know you really quick, vibe check, etc. And then as they start to narrow down who they like best, who their most compatible match

is, they can opt to go on these longer dates where maybe they play a game or they have a little meal and they drink out of those opaque cups for continuity purposes. At some point within that lightning fast, and yet somehow endless 10 day period, they can choose to propose. That's the goal to get engaged. And only once they're engaged is there this big reveal where they can finally see what their match looks like. And sometimes they're really excited about it. They're where they can finally see what their match looks like. And sometimes they're really excited about it.

They're like, oh my God, you're so hot. And then they'll like grab their ass and it's like this whole sort of uncomfortable, weird, awkward, but can't look away type, car wreck thing. And other times they see them and they're not attracted to them at all and that's awkward in its own way. And that really throws them.

And despite the whole premise that like love is blind and you can really form a lifelong sustainable connection, someone without seeing them at all, when they end up not having that physical attraction, spoiler alert, they often don't end up staying together because we are human beings at the end of the day. Then they go through all these phases of transitioning into the real world.

First they live together on a resort in Mexico. Then they move back into their real lives together and it all leads up to a televised wedding where they decide on the day whether or not to go through with it. The whole premise of this show was essentially predicated on the idea that dating culture as we know it is not working. Judging people by their looks with all the superficial the idea that dating culture, as we know it, is not working.

Judging people by their looks with all the superficial swiping on dating apps, it's shallow. It's just a bad way to build connection. And this shows ideology was proposed as a solution to that. It's, you know, we're doing something radically different to fix a broken system, which is already a culty approach when you think about it, to find something that is legitimately flawed about a current institution with traditional cults that might be religion or politics. Here it's the quest for romance and partnership, but then annihilating any

sense of nuance or measure when evaluating what worked or what didn't work with that institution and just instead saying, we have a totally opposite solution that's going to change your life. That was essentially the producer's approach to love is blind. And not only did they have to convince participants themselves to believe in this new idea wholeheartedly,

but also millions of onlookers, the audience. So it had to be all the more extreme and sensational to keep everyone's attention, to keep everyone's belief. You cannot tell me that's not culty. Lo and behold, by the time Season 2's contestants had gone through the show, there were already accusations that Love is Blind was a cult. In 2023, Business Insider published an interview

with a Season 2 contestant who actually did get married on the show. ["The Star-Spangled Banner"] But later divorced. ["The Star-Spangled Banner"] This article was titled, -"Nick Thompson said starring on Love is Blind was like being in a cult, but he wouldn't rule out working with Netflix

to make its reality TV better." Oh well, kind of a mouthful of a headline, but sure. This article basically stated that the god-awful experience that Nick Thompson had on Love Is Blind led him to co-create a foundation called the Unscripted Cast Advocacy Network Foundation, aka UCAN. He created that in April of 2023 to, and I quote, provide mental health and legal support to former current and past reality TV contestants, which you might think is kind of overkill.

Like we should be supporting organizations that offer support to ex Scientologists or ex Children of God. Do we really need a whole foundation for ex-clash current reality TV contestants. But I actually think that this is not a bad idea because there is a lot of exploitation that goes on in this world that basically takes advantage of the hopes and dreams and inexperience of these folks who want to find love and yes, okay okay maybe they also want to find a little bit of fame But that doesn't necessarily mean that they deserve pain and shame So you cans other co-founders include a different former Love is Blind contestant named Jeremy Hartwell

who as of the time that this article was published was suing Netflix and the production company that created Love is Blind kinetic content for quote, inhumane working conditions. And again, according to this insider article, paying cast members less than minimum wage. Now it must be said, kinetic content vehemently denied these allegations. Speaking of allegations, let's make some. We've got to talk about some of the inherently cult-like qualities to the premise and setup of the show Love is Blind. First there is this physical deprivation that we also see in shows like The Bachelor, but just because we're used to it on reality TV doesn't make it not culty. This former contestant Nick Thompson said that one of the reasons why he was inspired to launch UCan was because of the quote, extreme exploitation at the hands of the Love Is Blind production

team who he said expected the cast to film up to 20 hours a day and often denied them sufficient food and water allegedly allegedly allegedly allegedly. You're in a pod. You're literally like locked in a little cell. You could be thirsty as fuck, and I can completely see allegedly, allegedly a scenario in which the production is like, yo, we gotta finish this scene, we'll give you water later. This is just speculation, kinetic content, don't come for me, I'm just a cult girly being dramatic. Also in Love is Blind,

there is all this alleged weaponized exhaustion and manipulation. Former contestants have said that they experienced extreme fatigue after all those endless hours of filming and that producers often low-key prayed on their anxieties and insecurities during interviews for the purposes of making great television. Then of course, there is the total isolation from the outside world. Contestants had their passports taken away, their phones taken away, and sure, they signed a contract stipulating

that that would happen, but again, it doesn't make it less cult-like. Nick Thompson told Insider, "'You literally sign a contract that says "'you can be misrepresented, you can be defamed. "'I know that you have to sign something similar when you sign up for the bachelor, but again, I can't repeat this enough.

That doesn't make it normal. It really is, in my opinion, exploitative to exchange someone's desire for love and connection and a new experience and okay, maybe new followers for public shame that could follow them for the rest of their life. Now, here's something that I found absolutely fucking fascinating. When I was looking into the comparisons that have been alleged between Love is Blind and Colts, I very quickly found a Love is Blind Reddit forum where people were sharing this insider article and

discussing it. And there were a lot of people who were saying that Nick Thompson was just being opportunistic or dramatic, like tiny violin, boohoo, you got famous from the show, how can you possibly have these many complaints? For example, one comment said, quote, I mean, they knew about the no phones and no internet rule when signing up.

It's a weird thing to complain about. And that was a sentiment echoed by a few different comments. But get this, the most upvoted comment on this Reddit thread shook me to my core. It said the following, quote, just saying, people voluntarily join actual cults too. No one says, ooh, let me try this cult. They want the experience. So for y'all shitting on them, I'd recommend doing some cult experience exploration and look at what all qualifies as a cult.

Cough, Amazon, cough, self-help, gurus, cough. Then this comment goes on to say, look into a podcast called Sounds Like A Cult. Hell, they talk about how Starbucks culture and the wedding industry has cult-like behaviors. Again, just because someone volunteers doesn't mean it's not a cult, just like people volunteer to be in relationships.

You take a chance hoping for the best, sometimes it is, and others you get beaten down, love bombed, manipulated, coerced, and beaten into submission." I could not believe that this podcast had made its way into Love is Blind discourse. Truly honored. And I love that somehow this show is allowing people to open up the conversation about what culti exploitation can look like and is inspiring people to have a little bit more empathy. I thought that was pretty cool. So here's another question. Does Love is Blind work? You know, they're claiming that this brand new approach to finding love is better than anything that's ever come before it.

Eight love is blind couples across five seasons said yes when they finally got to the altar and that's the thing when you show up to your wedding day, you don't know whether the other person is going to say yes or no, your wedding could be this joyous occasion or this massive public rejection, and that happens a lot. So eight love is blind couples had a successful yes, I do, I do, I do, and are still married. So what's the ratio there? It's not great, but it's also not totally useless, which, you know, could be said for a lot of cults. I mean, there

were people who came away from nexium saying like, hey, you know what, it wasn't perfect, but I had a good time. We're gonna need to get an insider's perspective on the cult of love is blind, however, and that is why I am so excited to transition into my interview with my very special guest co-host of the day, please welcome Stacey Snyder, former contestant from season 5 of Love is Blind. MUSIC Stacey, thank you so much for joining this episode of Sounds Like a Cult.

This has been a much-requested topic. Perfectly timed. Thank you for being here. Oh, love to hear that. First of all, could you just introduce yourself to our listeners? Sure, this is Stacy Snyder. I was on the recent season of Love is Blind, season five, and I am on the call from Houston, Texas.

Okay, go, I don't know, sports? Literally one single thing about sports. First off, could you just real talk, explain what motivated you to want to join this show, this cult? Yeah, no, I mean, once I got cast, I think I was 33. I'm 35 now. And at that point, I was dating and I went through like the roller coaster of I want something serious and I'm not finding anything so I'm just gonna have fun or I'm just gonna quit dating altogether and travel or Do things with my girlies and I feel like most of my friends can relate to that

I think a lot of people can agree like it couldn't get worse in the dating world these days So when love is blind came around, it was just that opportunity of something different. I mean, very different. That's kind of what motivated me. It was my age, somewhat social pressure of where I was supposed to be relationship wise. So I thought give it a whirl and see what would happen. Had you ever thought about doing like a reality TV thing before? No. My sisters all thought I should. And I was drunk one night in San Antonio and apparently got approached by someone from Big Brother and didn't realize until I had an email the next day.

So who knows what I was saying that was reality TV worthy that night. But other than that, this was as close as I was gonna get. Well, you do have beautiful skin. I love them. Tell Jenix good. Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. There is like a reality TV look, I have to say. But I feel like with Love Is Blind, the initial attempt with the show was to kind of go against that.

I know, but let's be honest. I guess people want to watch a certain type of person go bananas or cause drama. How do you see in the show before you applied to be on it? I didn't apply to be on it. The casting people had reached out to me and I think that's how a lot of the casting went for a lot of people, at least on my season. I hadn't watched the show before they reached out

but I had heard about the show from my aunt who is a psychologist. At that point, season one was the only one that was out. Right. And it's kind of like week by week, they let you know if you're still in contention. Okay. So when you finally did watch it, you were clearly intrigued enough to want to move forward with it. But did you notice any immediate red flags? When I first watched it, it's kind of like any

other reality TV show I think you would watch for you're wondering, is it scripted? If it is, how much of it is scripted? What happens if these people fall in love and don't propose all these what-ifs. So that was my first impression was, is this real? Because my brain couldn't wrap around the fact that people were talking for that amount of time. So it's like, are they lying? Did they already know each other? Is this fast forwarded over a longer amount of time? Yes, because the whole premise seemed so wacky. So then can you talk about how your expectations compared with the reality of being on the show? Compared to what I thought it was going to be. I mean, not at all. Yeah. I thought it was just going to be like in my head what TV would be where you're

just going to the mark that someone's telling you to go to it. It's not that at all. It's very organic. That was shocking to me. It's very much they come in and talk to you in the mornings, but the rest of it is you dating and getting to know someone or multiple someone's with the idea that you're gonna get engaged. I laughed about it. I told my family, I was like, there's no way I'm gonna meet anyone and fall in love that fast. So I'll see you in a week and then look what happened.

Because like literally it's 10 days, right? I mean, that's mental. In my mind, I'm like the only way that someone could be all in on this process was if they're like in a cult. Like, they really have to do some kind of culty mental witchcraft to convert you overnight like that. For the most part, I think everyone was in the same boat thinking it was cuckoo and it definitely was fast, but we also didn't have anything else going on. Like, you don't have a phone, you don't have a computer,

you don't have TVs, you're not really interacting with anybody else. You're just sleeping and dating. So if anyone can imagine what that would be like, all you're doing is courting. It reminds me of when people go on silent meditation retreats, where like for seven days in a row, their only job is to like be quiet and at one with themselves. It's like a dating retreat where you are concentrating,

I don't know, three months worth of dating into 10 days, no? Like it's kind of like that. It is. And also another thing to think about is you kind of cut out all of the crap. It's not like, are you interested in dating or are you looking for something long term? It's like, obviously we are because we're all looking to potentially marry someone. That's what we're here for. So if you're not looking for the same thing, it's pretty apparent you don't really click with those people. The things that you first start talking about with these people

are kids, values, finances, your idea of gender roles in a marriage. I mean, big topics. And that's all you talk about. So you get deep very, very quickly. OK. So when I think of the cult of love is blind, I think of like, well, you're super isolated.

You're sort of coerced slash volunteering to buy in to this pretty radical idea that every other dating technique has failed. Let's try doing it blind and then seeing if that translates to the outside world, which is like a lot to ask someone to sign up for. But when you think of love is blind as being culty, what sort of elements come to mind? Oh my gosh. Going into it, you definitely have one mindset. And then once you're rolling

with it, it does become kind of animalistic because it's not just what you're doing. Then you're kind of sensing what other people around you were doing, are they talking to the same person? And then it almost pushes that commitment and desire harder. Like, I don't know how to explain it other than that. Is it cold? Like, I did not think that I would get to the point of engagement and possibly getting married. Right. So I guess that sense of transformation within like the world of love is blind. It's kind of like you said, you never know how you're going to react to an intense environment until you're there. And it kind of sounds like you behaved in a way that you wouldn't have predicted.

But so then let me ask, there's the cult of going through, like you said, the very insular organic process of this courtship ritual where you're talking about intimate things, you're being asked to be super vulnerable, bear your soul, be yourself, but then at the end of the day, this is a reality TV show. For those who haven't seen your season, and I guess for those who have, could you sort of describe like your portrayal on the show when you watched it back and did you think it was an accurate representation? It's hard to talk about portrayals only because there are thousands of hours that

they are filming us and then only a select few that you actually get to see. So if I'm watching clips of what I'm doing and what I'm saying, yes, I did all those things. Yes, I said all those things, but there is context missing in between. So it's almost like for the storylines to get from point A to point B to point C, you have to pick and choose the monumental pieces. I think the way a lot of people perceived me is a lot of the fill in the blanks about what I do, how I was raised, my attitude. And I can only say that because of the feedback I've gotten from trolls online. And then I get feedback that's different in person. So as far as like the fans of the show, the diehards of love is blind, I think it was hard for them to see me be okay saying no.

Saying no to the marriage proposal. Yeah, there were things that weren't aligning with my values. And for the most part, I think they want the couples to win. They want you to say yes. And if you say no, then you did it for the clout or you were never in it for the right reasons. But I mean, if anyone were to have walked in any of our shoes, I don't want to say I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, but it's not a walk in the park. There's a lot of stress, a lot of drama, and you have to think your closest friends and your family are all involved too. So there's the stress and pressure of like what you're putting them

through as well. So it's definitely not a clout-worthy role. Oh my gosh, I completely hear that. I mean, I've never been on reality TV, but I shudder to think how I would be portrayed. Genuinely, because the context is so important and they're trying to slot you into a certain archetype, even if they're not consciously trying. Like, inevitably that's how our brains work as human beings.

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head to factormeals.com slash cult50 and use code cult50 to get 50% off. That's code cult50 at factormeals.com slash cult50 to get 50% off. ["Cult 50"] So a lot of classic notorious cults start out as experiments. They call themselves that, which is also the language that Love Is Blind uses. Even though you didn't end up married from the show, do you think this quote unquote

experiment is still worth any risks that come with it? I think that if the people want the same thing, end up matching in the timing and the values and everything are lined up, it's the perfect experiment to just get you to that person faster. I think things start to fall apart sometimes when you take that little love embryo

and implant it into the real world once everything comes back to hit you in the face. And sometimes it shows that you're not in the same place in life. Yeah, that's actually a really good point because obviously we're using the word cult very cheekily when talking about love is blind. But when I think about more serious cults, they are the sort of thing where like what you learn and how you behave inside the insular world of the compound or wherever you are, it doesn't work outside of those walls or outside of those bounds.

Can you talk about the bond that that insularity and isolation creates between you and your romantic match but also you and your fellow castmates? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's the most intense thing that I've ever had. It's all you're focused on and then it becomes your world because you get invested so fast. And again, there's no distractions,

but it makes everything very real. It's not just like, oh, I like this person. You start envisioning all of the things with that person down the road. We're talking kids, marriage, what your house is gonna look like, what your holidays are gonna look like, all of that. So, I mean, that's 100% contributed to the atmosphere that you're in

when all of that's happening. And the same with the girls, whether it's good or bad, I mean, you're going through the intensity of it together. So there is a little bit of that competitiveness. And then there's also that camaraderie, like we're going through the same thing, like no one can relate to you boo-hooing over guy you've talked to twice except for the person that's doing the same thing. Right, right. It sounds like summer camp, but you're adults and you're being filmed and it's also sorority. Very much so. The cult like part about it is you within your castmates, but then you with people from other seasons too. than your castmates, but then you with people from other seasons too. Because you get so much black, or people thinking you're nuts, or whatever you look like on

the show, and the only other people that get it are the people that have done it. Right. Yes, we're an LIB cult family. Yes, yes. Okay, let's talk about the sort of fanaticism surrounding the show. Because, I mean, the fandom and how invested people get, parasocially, into strangers' relationships is so exceptional. Do you think that the fanaticism surrounding Love is Blind is just because of this sort of novel twist on the dating show setup?

Or do you think there's something especially culty about the nature of the show itself? There's the twist, but I mean, this is real life. These are real people. They are actually getting married. I have never heard of a concept like that. Have you had any uncomfortable or sort of like weird power dynamic interactions with fans after leaving the show? I had one chick while the show was still rolling out and I was out with my sister for a glass of wine.

Her and her friends were leaving past by and she was like, by the way, I love you. I'm a fan of the show. I was like, oh, that's great. And then she like was complimenting me. It was all positive. She asked for a picture. And of course I'm totally fine with it.

And she's like, thanks so much for being so sweet. And then the next day, this is how small Houston is. Izzy sent me a screenshot from Instagram from his friend of the girl who took a picture of me posted it to Instagram and it was all Crap talking no way. Yes. Whoa all crap talking like how dare I tell such an Unsolicited lie to this girl that I liked her and all this stuff and I don't necessarily care what people think But I just felt so violated that it's like you're coming into my space I'm fine with it

But then it's like you have to second guess what people's intentions are. And I don't want to have to do that. But it did that where I was just like, this person talking to me, they want to take a picture and do the same thing, or they actually want to meet me and chat and have that little sweet moment. Right. And I can imagine that being on the show can create some trust issues. Because the fans, again, like they get so, so intense because of their expectations and them wanting you to be a certain way. But then there's the production side. I mean, you mentioned that things were really organic and there was a lot of freedom, I guess. But did you ever feel coerced by production? Did you like understand the contract when you signed it?

Like, what was that whole situation like? I don't think I ever felt coerced. The contract I read and I knew what it was saying, but I read the contract also thinking I'd be there for a few days because I was like, there is no way. So then once I got more serious and it does get so stressful that there were times where I was debating like, do I even want to like finish this thing? Do I want to see this thing through? Like, is it worth it? I mean, it was definitely taxing. So that's when you kind of like,

read through the fine print of like, am I obligated to stay? Like, what are my options here? I didn't feel coerced, but it's more like you're exhausted and there's so many things going on that when you've been your partner, have separate interviews,

you don't know what they're saying. You're not supposed to know what they're saying and they're not supposed to hear you. It's almost like a diary. And then when they ask you questions after, you're almost like, wait, are you asking me because of what they asked you in there? Did they talk about me in there?

They tell you what I said. So you just get in your own head as far as what's going on when you're not there. And that's also a struggle, but it's just a whirlwind. Totally. And it's like the producers know what they're doing, but you as cast members don't know what's going on. And again, you're like so tired and stressed that like, I don't know, it's it sounds it definitely sounds like a lot. It's like it's like when you walk into a room and it gets quiet and you're like, are they talking about me? But there's a good chance they're not. You're just paranoid. Like you don't know if there's an MO like are they trying to paint me a certain way? Why did they ask me this question? But it may not even be that at all.

Paranoia is definitely something that cult leaders want to instill in their followers, just saying, just saying. Okay, so has the show had any lasting effects on you? Like how has it shaped your life now? How you move through the world? How you date? I feel like it's completely different, not in a good or bad way. The only thing I can compare it to is if you've ever been through a horrible breakup, right? Horrible breakup, it takes you a long time to move on and there's times where you're like, I just want the old me back, where you're not in pain and I've been in therapy for years and I went through something like that and the best advice that I got is you're never going to be

that person and you're not supposed to because you went through something big, life-changing, traumatic, whatever it is, you're supposed to be something after each one of those things. So right now, I wasn't expecting to be in another one of those phases where I'm kind of like shifting to where things have changed in my life and my workloads shifted, dating has shifted and And I don't know, they're just the way I look at life is completely different. Like I got so close to almost marrying someone. So it puts a lot of things in perspective. It changes my priorities when I'm, you know, dating and looking for a partner. I would say there's like lasting anxiety on it. I have so

many dreams about it still where I'll be at the altar and it'll be like a different outcome or I'll be there and Izzy will show up in like a different getup and like have some weird storyline. Like I have dreams like that all the time. I don't know. It's just this could have what I should have feeling that slips in and out and a lot of that also has to do with social media and the perception of people thinking they know who I am and I know who I am. So when you hear a lot of people saying something that's so ass backwards, you want to do things to prove them wrong or at least be like, I'm not a horrible person. And then I get caught like spinning my wheels

doing that and I have to take a step back. But I obviously never felt like that before the show. So that's just something I'm trying to get used to and better address. I completely hear that. And I mean, I can imagine how that could kind of sit with you or like haunt you and your literal dreams for a long time because like people are seeing you in a way that's almost like more intimate

than on a show like The Bachelor. Absolutely. They see you in a one-on- like more intimate than on a show like The Bachelor. Absolutely. They see you in a one-on-one relationship. You're living in an apartment with someone. There are so many hours where they're seeing just you. I mean, it sounds like you have a pretty strong sense of self, but like I could see myself really starting to question who I even am and be like, am I really that person that you're

all portraying me to be? I've definitely had moments like that where it was just like too much when you've just taken a beating mentally and emotionally. So I'll ask my closest people or my therapist like, is that me? If it is, I want to work on myself. And it's just like, Stacey, at the end of the day, these people don't know you and you'll write that it's an intimate setting. So it does burn a little bit more when you're getting judged on something that you kind of like went above and beyond to put yourself out there and like your best self or to just kind of get crapped all over. Totally. Which makes me think like whenever we analyze a reality show on sounds like a cult whenever we think about like who the cult leader of this certain group is with reality TV, it always seems like both the

viewers and the producers are cult leaders of sorts because like they have so much control. Like the mob has in a way as much control over you and your experience and your sense of self as the producers. Absolutely. And the thing is, like I didn't realize how cult like they are. They jump on to something and it's like they recruit and there's an army behind whatever belief it is that day, whatever assumption it is that day, and it's hundreds if not thousands of them. Okay, couple more things and then we're gonna play a game.

So I found some little known facts, or at least they were a little known to me about the show, and I was hoping that you could fact check them for me based on your experience. Okay, I will do my best. So one of these alleged facts is that contestants are not allowed to have any contact with outside world through phones, not even on their wedding day. Is that true? Yes, not on wedding day, not during the pods. What does not having your phone feel like? Liberating. Oh my god, it's amazing. At first it's weird because you keep wanting to reach for it because it's just habit. But once

you've accepted the fact that you are disconnected and too bad about work, they're going to figure it out on their own. Like that's a weird thing because I think a lot of us get controlling with our world. So to not have that, it's just kind of like retraining you to be more present with who you're around. And I loved that. But it gave me the worst anxiety when I got it's just kind of like retraining you to be more present with who you're around. And I loved that. But it gave me the worst anxiety when I got it back. I'm like, I don't want to look, I don't want to look, throw it away. I feel the same.

Let me tell you, wanting to disconnect from technology is a great reason to join a cult. I would be down for that experiment. The only reason I've ever bought a new phone is because I lost my old one. And whenever I lose my phone, I put off getting a new one for like two weeks. Oh, you do? Yeah. I'm like, this shit is poisoning my mind. Whenever I've been on a vacation and it's like no Wi-Fi, I'm like, okay, cool. When everyone's in the same boat, it's enjoyable, but I just, it's almost like that FOMO feeling of like, am I missing something? Am I missing something? Yeah. Man, you go rogue. Are you a Gemini? I'm an Aquarius. Oh! Happy early birthday, bloated birthday. Thank you. It's in 10 days.

Oh my gosh. Happy early birthday. Thanks so much, LOL Cult of Astrology, which I do not believe in, but I'm still so proud of being an Aquarius. It doesn't make sense. Okay, another one of these things I want to fact check is it's been reported that cast members are fine if they leave the show early. That's in our contract. I didn't do it, so I don't know if it's enforceable. If it's happened to anybody, it does have that verbiage in our contracts.

Well, and then this last one is contestants plan their own dates as opposed to the producers. So in 2020, one of the co-creators told Variety that contestants have a lot more input than other more overproduced reality dating shows. He said they were never interrupted in terms of a producer saying, hey, talk about this, talk about that. They really did what they wanted to do. Was that true? Yes and no. My partner did a lot of the planning as far as ideas for dates. There was some stuff

obviously set up when we were in Mexico and at a resort where you can't really do that, but producers would set things up saying we had a date night. In the pods, it was all free reign as far as conversation, what we wanted to talk about. Once you get further down the line with production and filming, there's things that you've already talked about. You're having an organic conversation with someone. If they know that it's already been captured on film, they know there's only a certain amount of time they have to capture other things. They'll kind of push like, hey, we've already covered this, are there any other topics you guys want to talk about? Maybe this or that or that.

So it's somewhat guided at certain points. How does that feel? Do you feel like you're being controlled in those moments? I think it just kind of threw things off at certain times. Like, I remember when Izzy was meeting my family and we're having to explain this whole story to them for the first time. It was my first time seeing my family since I left and I'm with my fiance. So there's a lot to talk about. So in those moments where they already know how we met and all of that, it felt kind of rushed, kind of like we can't talk about that when you talk about this. So I think it kind of took the authenticity out of it at certain points. It was kind of annoying.

No, it sounds very uncanny. Yeah, it was a little bit annoying, but I mean, what are you gonna do? It's what you signed up for, like we get it, but it's also like, oh, like I wanted to talk about that. Or I'm sure there were points where he had a funny story and was like, oh, I'm gonna get him with this one. They're like, actually, no, we've already heard that

for this. That's what I'm saying. Like if the TV element, I mean, this whole process wouldn't exist without the TV element, but like saying. Like if the TV element, I mean, this whole process wouldn't exist without the TV element, but like I'm saying like the TV element, I think kind of fucks up your chances for success of it. There were definitely certain parts where like, let's just not do this. Let's just like quit and do our own thing.

Or I was like, if the wedding date didn't have to be this soon, maybe we could work it out. But I remember even talking to like my producers at that point, they're like, but that's not the show. The show is an experiment. So these are the variables. I think a more accurate way to describe it would be the experiment is a show. Like at the end of the day, When we were going through it, when things were kind of falling apart, that was the answer

they always gave back. And honestly, it was kind of like, okay, you're right. Like I've just got to figure it out because that's what it is. That's what I signed up for. In cult analysis, we would call that a thought terminating cliche. Like whenever you have a piece of pushback or a question or you're not sure if this protocol is right,

they serve you this like catchy, highly repeatable phrase that like keeps you moving forward, you know what I mean? Yeah. I think there's like a false promise here that like this method really, really, really works, but actually it doesn't, because at the end of the day, the show is the priority. Oh, Hollywood.

I know, oh, Hollywood indeed. What is the absolute worst case scenario that's come from love is blind? I just think for the most part, the people that get rejected at whatever point in the experiment that they get rejected is the only thing where it's like, oh, maybe it wasn't worth it, but I haven't heard anyone say it wasn't worth it that's gone through that. I'm sure for some other seasons, there's things going on that they could speak to that, but none that I know of. Yeah, because even that guy Nick from season two who came out and he was like, love is blind as a coal. Even he was like, bro, I'd work with Netflix again if you just like, you know, took some tips from me on how to make it better.

Well, I mean, he got married, so I'm not in his shoes, but to a certain extent, it must have worked and he was happy. And there's other things that he's dealing with that may not have worked out, but I don't, I don't really know. I can't speak to that. That's fair enough. Like when we're not happy in our lives, we like look for causes and effects. Maybe now he's like, I'm looking for a source of my pain. And maybe it was like what I went through on the show, even if that's not entirely what it was. Who the fuck knows? We're speculating. Hey culties, I so hope you're enjoying this episode on the Cult of Love is Blind.

I wanted to take a second to tell you about my new book, The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality. I am so excited about this book. It comes out April 9th from Simon & Schuster, wherever books are sold. Although, if you pre-order now from the link in our show notes from my favorite local indie bookstores, Skylight Books, you will get a first edition signed and personalized copy, and you can make me write something really obscene or really sentimental when I sign your book. This book is a blend of social science research

and cultural criticism and deeply personal storytelling that talks about irrationality in the information age, covering ideas from celebrity worship to nostalgia, to Instagram manifestation gurus. The book has a ton of super interesting psychology and sociology research in it, but is also very pop culture relevant. And in it, I also tell a ton of stories from my own life, my own experiences with various culty irrationalities that are like more personal than stories I would generally share on this podcast. There's

a chapter in the book called A Toxic Relationship is Just a Cult of One, which talks about the sunk cost fallacy, which underlies a lot of our irrational choices to stay in romantic relationships or other kinds of partnerships long after they stop serving us. But every chapter talks about something different. There's also a chapter in there called Are You My Mother, Taylor Swift? Which addresses the halo effect, which is a cognitive bias that can explain the cycles of intense celebrity worship and dethronement that we see in our culture these days.

And there's also a chapter that I think y'all might like called nostalgia porn, which talks about this phenomenon called declineism, AKA our inclination to think that life is only getting worse and worse and worse, even when it's objectively getting better. This is where I gently beg you to pre-order the book. I didn't realize until I became an author how important pre-orders are. Again, if you pre-order from the link in our show notes, your copy will show up signed and personalized

and get this. I'm doing a little giveaway actually where the first 10 people to pre-order from that link and DM us at sounds like a cult pod on Instagram will be sent a little sounds like a cult logo sticker. So this is how badly I want you to pre-order the book. But no, I just really poured my brain and heart and other guts into this project and I really think you'll like it if you enjoy this podcast. Again, the book is called The Age of Magical Overthinking, notes on modern irrationality, and you can pre-order at the link in our show notes. Okay, so now we're going to transition into playing a little game.

I'm interested in seeing how The Cult of Love is Blind compares to other quote-unquote cults. So this game is just a classic, would you rather cult of Love is Blind Edition? First round, would you rather have to go on another season of Love is Blind or have to go on The Bachelor? Bachelor. Why? I don't wanna say it,

but I don't make the same mistake twice. Do you think that Love is Blind is cultier than The Bachelor or vice versa? I think Bachelor's cultier. I feel like it's much more of a like gossip topic. Totally. Like the fandom is Coltier. Yeah. I feel like there's a ton more seasons too, right? Yeah. It's been on since I was like three years old. I'm just kidding.

But like, I remember being in elementary school when it premiered. I mean, I'm about to turn 32. So like, it's been a minute. Okay. would you rather only be able to see your fellow Love Is Blind cast members and hang out with them for the next five years or have to move to a Manson style cult compound and live their off-grid for the next six months? The first option because all I'm thinking of right now is the Playboy Bunny Mansion. It would be more rustic than that, I think. Would you be there? Yeah, totally, I would be there. Okay, then maybe I'd do that one.

Okay, great. We could hang out, we could like learn how to use a spinning wheel. It would be very like nostalgic and delusional and like maybe traumatic. Would you rather have to give Dating Izzy another try or have to commit to exchanging romantic love letters with Nexium's now imprisoned cult leader Keith Ranieri for the next year. Exchanging love letters with him for a year?

Correct. Am I allowed to date while doing that? Yeah, totally. I'm just like entertaining him like a pen pal. Yes. I guess I'd do that one. There's always the risk that he could like charm you. There is always that risk.

I mean, look what happened to you on Love is Blind. I like playing with fire. It's fine. Listen, she's a risky girl. Okay. Would you rather join a dating themed cult or a Pilates themed cult? Pilates themed cult. I'd be in the best shape of my life. I'd be so happy too. Stacey is a Pilates instructor for those unfamiliar. Fitness cults are another major cult space that we tackle on

this show, Cult of Soul Cycle. Hello. Okay, I can see that. I also have never met a Pilates instructor that I didn't like. So I think it'd be really fun. Actually, now that you pointed out Pilates instructors don't give me cult leader energy. Yeah. Some listener is about to prove us wrong. Be like, no. I'm hot. Yeah.

Okay, last one, would you rather only be able to date in the Love Is Blind format, like with the pods and the reveal and the Mexico and the whatnot, or only be able to date using Tinder? Oh my God, Love Is Blind. That is so easy. Tinder? Is that sort of thing? I think so.

I would much rather do the pods and all the extremes, the intensity, than all that mess. Look at that. I mean, that's the premise of the whole show, right? There you go. Yeah. I like to get to the point, like, right quick. Okay. We've now reached the point in Every Sounds Like a Cult interview where I ask you the most important question. Stacey, out of our three cult categories, A Live Your Life, A Watch Your Back, or A Get the Fuck Out, which one do you think the cult of love is blind falls into? It's got to be Live Your Life. Everyone's in there doing it. You might be flying by the seat of your pants or hanging on by a thread, but you are living.

You are living your truth. Damn. Now that you say that, I think like, the stakes aren't really high enough and the consequences aren't really bad enough that the cult could be anything other than a live your life. But I guess if it goes as long as the bachelor, that answer could change.

I know. I'm like trying to think of anyone that's like, watch your back and I think it's all just like, live your life, but I guess if it goes as long as the bachelor, that answer could change. I know. I'm like trying to think of anyone that's like, watch your back. And I think it's all just like, live your life. Yeah. From what I'm hearing, it's like, the experience is a little bit what you make it. It's not for everybody, but for those who do it, it will not fuck you up. Yeah. If you're open and there for the right reasons, you'll feel for sure gain something positive out of it. Like I was saying, but there's also some things that it's more reality TV and what comes with that. That is like a lot of the downside.

It's not necessarily like this show and specific to this to me. Right, right. Okay. So then to use some astrology language, this is like a live your life sun, a watch your back moon, a live your life rising. Stacey, thank you so much for joining this episode of Sounds Like A Call. Thank you for having me. Oh, a pleasure.

If people want to keep up with you, respectfully, where can they do that? Instagram. I'm on Instagram, stacyrena926. I've got my closet audit website. I do personal styling and closet consulting. Now I do it virtually post-show, so that's been a fun little add-on. And all of that's listed on my IG

on my little link to read the bio. Girl bossing all the way to the sun. I'm trying. Well, that's our show. Thanks so much for listening. Stick around for a new cult the week after. Next one, we're taking a little break. And in the meantime, stay culty.

But not too culty. But not too culty. But not too culty. But not too culty. But not too culty. But not too culty. But not too culty. But not too culty.

But not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult is hosted and produced by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore of the Pod Cabin. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. This episode was made with production help from Katie Epperson. Our intern is Reese Oliver. Thank you as well to our partner, All Things Comedy. And if you like the show, please feel free to check out my books, Word Slut, A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language, Cultish, The Language of

Fanaticism, and Before Coming, The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality. If you're a fan of Sounds Like a Cool, I would really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.