Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Lululemon

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

First of all, what the hell is going on with culty leggings companies that have too many Ls in their brand name: LuLaRoe, Lululemon... sounds like a conspiracy!!! Anyway, after many long years of listener requesting this topic, Sounds Like A Cult is finally diving into the spandex heart of darkness that is Lululemon. With the help of special guest hosts Taz and Marah, the ridiculously charming voices behind the Sistas Who Kill podcast, host Amanda is unraveling how this bougie "It Girl" athleisure empire stretches beyond mere clothing into a full-blown lifestyle, complete with dogmas, devotees, and even a murder??? Yep, the true crime girlies already know. Oooof, this tale is banaynays—we hope you enjoy our culty analysis of it! Get your tickets now to Amanda's live tour, The Big Magical Cult Show, feat. Kelsey from Normal Gossip, Ceara & Griff from Petty Crimes, drag burlesque, musical guests, merch, and more! To preorder a signed and personalized copy of Amanda's new book, The Age of Magical Overthinking, click here :) For book BTS, news about her forthcoming Magical Overthinkers podcast, and more, consider subscribing to her newsletter! Follow @soundslikeacultpod @amanda_montell Thank you to our sponsors! Head to Squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, go to https://www.squarespace.com/CULT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Shop SKIMS Bras at SKIMS.com. After you place your order, select "podcast" in the survey and select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. Visit BetterHelp.com/CULT today to get 10% off your first month. Further reading! Business of Fashion: At Lululemon, Being Black Is ‘Off-Brand’ by Sheena Butler Young: https://www.businessoffashion.com/articles/workplace-talent/lululemon-diversity-and-inclusion-2023/ HuffPost: What the F*ck Was LuluLemon Thinking by Caroline Gregoir: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-the-fck-was-lululemon-thinking_b_4138754 Business Insider: 12 Utterly Bizarre Facts About The Rise Of Lululemon, The Cult-Like Yoga Brand by Jim Edwards: https://www.businessinsider.com/12-utterly-bizarre-facts-about-the-rise-of-lululemon-2012-4#the-founder-is-an-ayn-rand-fan-and-the-company-takes-its-values-from-atlas-shrugged-1 Business Insider: Some Lululemon retail employees say there is an environment of 'toxic positivity,' where workers feel pressure to share personal information with managers and constant feedback can feel like bullying by Caroline Hroncich and May Teng: https://www.businessinsider.com/lululemon-retail-employees-describe-toxic-culture-2021-3 Salon: Yoga, spinning and a murder: My strange months at Lululemon by Mary Mann: https://www.salon.com/2013/12/31/yoga_spinning_and_a_murder_my_strange_months_at_lululemon/

Hey culties, it's your host Amanda here. Did you know that my new book, The Age of Magical Overthinking is available for pre-order now? It comes out April 9th and if you pre-order from the link in our show notes, your copy will show up signed and personalized. And guess what? I'm also going on a very exciting live tour. In April when the book comes out, I'm doing this over-the-top live show called The Big Magical Cult Show, which is gonna feature special guests from some of your favorite podcasts like Kelsey McKinney from Normal Gossip and Kira and Griff from Petty Crimes. I'm also doing some bookstore events moderated by folks

like Molly Ringwald and Pauline Chalamet. It's gonna be a great time. To pre-order your signed copy of The Age of Magical Overthinking or to get tickets to the Big Magical Cult Show, check out the link in our show notes. Thank you to our sponsor Squarespace. Start with a free trial at Squarespace.com. It's where dreams become websites.

Head to Squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to HTTPS colon slash slash www.squarespace.com slash cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Shop Skims bras at skims.com. Now available in 62 sizes from 30A to 46H. Plus get free shipping on orders over $75.

If you haven't yet, be sure to let them know we sent you. After you place your order, select Podcast in the survey and select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Learn to make time for what makes you happy with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash cult today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash cult. The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as

indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Like you are not just selling leggings, you are important. That's the vibe I get from Lululemon. It's like elite. Yeah, and that's what makes them feel like they're better than everybody else. If you don't have these leggings, your camel toe will show and nobody will love you and you'll never become a veterinarian. How will you ever live? This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults. become a veterinarian. How will you ever live?

This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montel, author of the books Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, and the forthcoming The Age of Vaginal Overthinking. Every week on the show, you're going to hear about a different fanatical fringe group from the cultural zeitgeist, from corporate America to Catholic school, to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? And if so, is it a love your life, a watch your back? Or a get the fuck out level cult? After all, the word cult is up to interpretation. You've got your really bad cults, like the Mansons and the QAnons.

And then you've got your like cult brands, like Glossier and Trader Joe's and Lululemon. The question is not whether or not this is a cult follow-up brand. It for sure is. The question is how close to a dangerous cult is it? That's what we're here to find out today and I'm so excited to be finally covering this topic because it's one of those quote-unquote cults that ended up on the cutting room floor of my book when I was reporting out cult-ish. I was working on the section of the book that covers fitness, cults, like SoulCycle and CrossFit.

Those are two subjects that we have covered on this show. But I did a bunch of calls about Lululemon also. When you think of the word cult and when you think of fitness, Lululemon is one of those brands that will shoot to mind fairly quickly. It was interesting because I did interview two former Lululemon employees. One was a person

who I went to high school with, this very like sweet sort of Disney adult actually, so cult hopper. And one was a woman who went on to become a reporter and they had kind of opposite perspectives on their experience working at Lululemon. My friend from high school was like answering these questions about what it felt like to work from high school was like answering these questions about what it felt like to work there. He was like, yeah, you know, there were these mandatory yoga classes that we had to do and you know, it was definitely like a tight knit vibe,

but no, it didn't really feel like a cult. And then the other person I interviewed was like, yes. Chip Wilson, the founder, leader, culty high honcho was the Keith Ranieri of leggings. He forced everyone to go to whatever self-help program he was obsessed with in the moment. He was racist, fat, phobic, sexist, coined all these culty ass phrases that everybody had to learn. It was a full blown cult. And I was like, damn, which one is it? Or is it a little bit of both? That's what makes Lou Lemon the perfect topic for the show.

I do think it's safe to say that this fitness, wellness, lifestyle brand has gone way beyond its purview of making ridiculously expensive leggings to a point where certainly more than one consumer has described the vibes of Lululemon as exclusionary, toxic, but the insider employee side is where it really gets sketchy. Plenty of employees have called the workplace environment controlling woo-woo cult-like. Things have gotten so intense at Lululemon that there was even a notorious murder in

one of their stores. Over leggings! That's right. You may have thought you were tuning in to listen to a chill, relaxing, live your life kind of episode, but my true crime girlies already know this story. In 2011, a Lulu Lemon employee was caught stealing some of these $100 plus leggings and freaking bludgeoned the co-worker who caught her to death inside the store! I'm really bad at talking about murder as the loyalists of this podcast already know, so thank god I have two professional true crime podcasters joining me later.

Get excited because my special guest hosts for today are Taz and Mara, the hosts of The Sisters Who Kill podcast who cover the Lululemon murder on their show. But before we get into that, I wanna give some brief background on what exactly makes Lululemon such a cult. In my opinion, allegedly. So, Lululemon. It was founded in 1998 by this motherfucker, Chip Wilson. He started it as an apparel studio by day and a yoga studio by night.

Chip's original vision for Lululemon was for it to become a cult. I'm just kidding, except I'm not. Off the bat, he really wanted it to feel like a community hub for fitness enthusiasts. And it's only gotten cultier since then. Nowadays, the Lululemon motto is, and I quote, to be the experimental brand that ignites a community of people living the sweat life through, sweat, grow, and connect. Do chat, GPT, write that motto. The grammar is not fully grammar-ing. Anyway, of course Lululemon loves to grow Boss Gatekeep. The average pair of leggings there cost between 98 and 118 dollars. With their most expensive product, the Snow Warrior Long Parka,

Moment of Silence for the Hyfalutin cult leader or energy of that product name, that shit cost $598. So we're high end here. Not to be too much of a hater. I do own a pair of Lulu lemon leggings. I was gifted it. I did not buy it, but I do wear it from time to time. And there's a reason because fans of the brand often cite Lulu lemons well fitting, comfortable clothes that make them feel confident. They say that the fabrics feel nice against the skin.

They love the moisture wicking properties. It's wild that something as sinister as a cult could erect around something as innocuous as a legging. But we've seen it before. Did anyone listen to our episode on the cult of Lula Rowe? Another very different leggings brand with many, many, many L's. Anyway, even though it is just a leggings brand, very soon after its launch, Chip Wilson

and his whole little empire started to become associated with words like cult and cult leader. Over the past few months, we've actually received multiple emails from Sounds Like a Cult listeners who used to work at Lulu Lemon. Email us your cult stories anytime sounds like a cult pod at gmail.com. And I actually want to read one of these emails allowed to you because it sort of perfectly encapsulates the battery of cultish experiences and qualities associated with Lulu Lemon. This email comes from a listener named Lindsay. Shout out, thank you. Lindsay says, hello Amanda and team. As a former Lulu Lemon employee and yoga teacher,

when I started listening to sounds like a cult, I kept flashing back to my days working there. It hit so many red flags. First of all, there's the cultish language. There was DoFi, which stood for director of first impressions, which sounds like a sort of highfalutin glorified position, but it was really just a front door greeter. Lindsay said at Lulu Lemon their term for deadlines was by Wens. Why? Sounds like something out of a sci-fi novel. She also went on to say there were grave exit costs. Quote, the company paid for our yoga classes and encouraged us all to spend time together outside of work and at community events and fundraisers. Leaving the job didn't mean just

losing your paycheck and benefits. It also meant access to yoga classes that some of us were doing daily and your social network. Actually, funny enough, I was talking about this episode to one of my closest friends the other day. She works in nonprofits, another cult, listen to that episode, but she told me that one of her coworkers who works other day. She works in nonprofits, another cult, listen to that episode. But she told me that one of her coworkers who works at this cancer nonprofit with her, after she started working her full-time job, remained a part-time employee at Lulu Lemon.

So five days a week she would work at her nonprofit. And then on both of the weekends, she would work all day at Lulu Lemon just because she didn't want to give up the community benefits, the identity benefits. It really was a part of who she was. Back to Lindsay's email, she said, quote, part of the job when I was there was sharing deep goals,

which of course opened a lot of vulnerability and sometimes trauma, which created deeper bonds and dependencies on coworkers and managers than you might in a regular retail job. When I heard about the Lulu Lemon murder in Maryland in 2011, I did actually understand how such a thing could happen, because although the stakes are really just losing a retail job,

it could be made to feel like so much more. A few memorable get the fuck out experiences. I was reprimanded for missing my yogas one week, because I only attended one class. This was the week my mother was receiving treatment for breast cancer, which they all knew about. If someone above you told you feedback that you maybe didn't feel right about and you countered with your experience or interpretation of the event, you were told, that's just a story you're holding

on to. How's that for a thought terminating cliche? But the high ups version, that was them quote, speaking their truth and holding you accountable. So talk about an unquestioned power structure. We were told we had to give three pieces of feedback to our coworkers in a shift. The catch? Feedback was only things they could improve on, not things they were doing right. That's right, we had to critique each other daily as a part of the job or would be written up. Yes, they sent me to redacted self-help seminar as a reward. This is the wackiest bullet point on this list. When the founder Chip Wilson came to visit our store, we all made up a choreographed dance to

welcome him. His plane was four hours late, but we all stayed just to greet him and do a choreographed dance to Michael Jackson's The Way You Make Me Feel. This was unpaid. No, we weren't forced to stay, but I knew if I left, I would be the only one and considered not a team player when it came time for promotions That whole scene just makes me think of like obviously not the same consequences or stakes But putting on this performance for Chip Wilson's visit to the store makes me think of like North Korea putting on these like flashy performances to impress Outsiders who are coming to visit the dictatorship Scary the last thing Lindsay says in this email is,

I was a part of the company during the time that we went from being privately held to publicly traded and witnessed a lot of the capitalistic changes that happened during that time. Some for the better, like proper HR, but working there during that time was a trip. I still have rough feelings about my time there. Since the stores were all independent and I worked in three,

the experience at each was different. Some stores were positive and fun, but the one I spent the most time at took the guidelines in the worst possible way to manipulate and control their employees. There's also a very obvious history of racism and fat phobia built into the company, which does seem to be lessening,

but it's hard to teach an old dog, Nutrix. That's the extent of the email. Thank you so much, Lindsay, for sending it. I can't wait to continue getting into the nitty gritty of each of these bullet points from the exclusionary attitudes to the coercive trauma dumping between employees to the murder. So let's get right into this juicy ass episode. It's kind of a true crimey episode, but also very fun and chatty. I hope you enjoy the format. And again, who better to get into this culty drama than two very special guests who have covered the Lulu lemon murder on their ridiculously charming and

thoughtful podcast who are way better than me at talking about crime. Let's get into it. Welcome Mara and Taz hosts of Sisters Who Kill. This sounds like a cult. It sounds like a cult. Hey everyone, I am Mara. I am the co-founder, co-host for Sisters Who Kill, a true crime podcast that focuses on Black murder dresses. I do the podcast with my very best friend since high school. We've been friends over 10 years. Hi, I'm Zaz. I am other half of Sister's Hotel. Me and Mara have been on Rockin' 6, 80 Physics.

I wanted to ask a little bit about the origin story of your pod, because it's similar to the origin story of Sounds Like a Cult, which was also a pandemic project. How did you come to talking about murder in this way and building the cult of sisters who kill? We did. So I am the theater kid out of the two of us. Taz has always been my friend. We talk all the time. So we went to the same high school, but even throughout college and while I was in grad school, we were never in the same state, but we talked like almost every day. And so when the pandemic hit, we had nothing to do. We were both unemployed. We were just trying to stay sane.

Taz is a documentary watcher. That's her thing. And I'm a podcast listener. One day we were just talking about what documentaries and what podcasts we were listening to, and we were on the phone for hours. I mean, just chit-chatting. And I had told her for a long time that we should start a podcast. So it had been maybe three, four years, way pre-pandemic.

And we were like, well, what would it be about? And then finally, I was like, you know what? We were having great conversations about your documentaries and my podcast. I think True Crime is it. So we were like, okay, it's going to be a true crime podcast. And for me, everything I do, I'm like, it's gotta be about empowering women and everything has to be feminist. And then Taz was like, well, anything I'm gonna do,

it's gotta be black, gotta be for the culture. And I'm like, okay, black women that kill. And so then came Sistis Who Kill. And our very first episode is Jazz and Taz Whitehead. They went to our school and they were arrested, well, one of them was arrested at our school. It was a whole thing. And that was our very first episode.

So we were like, let's talk about that case. And it was easy for us because we, of course, we knew the case pretty well, but we also knew the ins and outs of the case that people didn't see or did not hear on the radio or in news outlets. It's a really popular case, just like Lululemon. Right. But we knew a lot about them. Everybody said they had a problem with authority,

but they were in ROTC and were atop an ROTC. So do you have a problem with authority? So we were able to dive into the case in a way that many can't because they're not black girls living in that same area with the same problems. And so we were able to dive into the case way more than the white person that told the case. And we were like, we have a different perspective.

And so we'll be able to talk true crime to black women. And I guess we kind of created a little cult. Sometimes our members love us, sometimes they're mad, and sometimes they say. So we're here two and a half years, I hit almost three years strong. I love that the sort of like super, super unique perspective and twist you can put on a subject matter that people already love is I think what also worked for this show too. Because it's like

everybody loves Colts, but this is a show about the Colts we all follow. And you know, my dad grew up in a cult, but I'm not just talking about like doom and gloom type Jonestown and Heaven's Gate, even though I find those stories absolutely fascinating. This is more about the cultishness that shows up in everyday life. And I think we're all subscribed to a cult at some point. Like, we have all kind of gone knee deep into something and it's like, I don't know why I'm crazy about this brand or this music. Like, it's a cult for real. Yeah, knee deep, tit deep, neck deep.

It's all about how deep you really want to get. OK, OK, Lululemon, you're here for a reason. Can you talk about your connection to the cult of the day? I think the connection that we have is because we talk about crimes committed by black women, and we covered a murder, murder that happened in a Lulu Lemon store. We got to dive into all of the nitty gritty behind the scenes of Lulu Lemon and the kind of crazy random crime that happened there.

Listen, we don't talk about murder too much on Sounds Like It Cold. It's like a little intense. I don't have the stomach for it, But when the true crime girlies show up, they show up hard. And who would have guessed that we'd be talking about murder and leggings in the same day, but here we are out of the gate. Let me just ask what were some of the most surprising things that you uncovered about Lulu Lemon, the brand, while diving into the murder? I think the founder of the brand, Trash, garbage human being, even why Lululemon was called

Lululemon racism. And then on top of that, because men like to objectify women's bodies and tell women what's right and what's wrong and what is beautiful because a woman is apparently not allowed to make that decision for herself. You get to have these women that are the it girls and then it excludes everybody else. I was looking at Lulu Lemon today before we had this and I was just like, let me see what size it goes up to. It goes up to a size 20 for $100 baby.

Put some material on there. And then this idea of being the it girl, this idea of being healthy and it's not really the idea of being healthy. It's the idea of being better than everybody else. I just, I can't get with it. Well summarized, let's talk a little bit about the origin story while we're here. So Lula Lemon was founded by Chip Wilson, Canadian surprising. This naming of the brand is such a frickin' horror story, you mentioned it. The lore, which has been confirmed by many a source, is that he chose the name Lululemon not because it meant anything, not because it was communicating something specific, but because he thought that it would sound exotic because Japanese people, according to him,

can't pronounce the letter L. So he was like trolling in a very racist capacity. Yeah, when I read that part, I was just like, why? And of course, like the average white woman that wears Lulu lemon, they don't even know, nor do they care because their butt looks good. Yes, so Wilson, problematic motherfucker, he just has like a new age pseudo-scientific

cult leader vibe to him that goes way beyond a leggings entrepreneur. He has stated the belief that birth control pills and smoking are responsible for high divorce rates. He favors, loves, approves of using child labor from undeveloped countries. Wow. It says that out loud. It's the question. Even if you did. You're money hungry, you're greedy, you want the cheapest. You'd all admit it.

I know. Keep it to yourself. And lo and behold, Wilson, if that was not bad enough, is one of those people who refers to himself in the third person. He calls himself Chip. What is that? Psychologically. I hate those people.

Maybe from a cult leader-ish perspective, it's like an alter ego. And they are referring to this larger in life persona that they're trying to create. Maybe that's a generous take, I don't fucking know. I just feel like it's, you were a nobody. Like I feel like he was probably picked on as a child and had no friends.

No one ever picked him for dodgeball. And when they did pick him for dodgeball, he was first out because everybody hit him first in the head. And so now that he has something for himself, he's like, I have to speak for myself because no one else would ever speak for me because I am a sad, rich white man.

You could say that his lust for power stems from a chip on his shoulder. Okay, so Taz, let me ask you first. When I say the cult of Lulu Lemon, what do you think is red flag number one? I hate women. Yes. End of episode. Thank you so much for being here. That's all it needs to be said.

So very specific white woman. Yes. I really think it can best be described as a Saturday morning going to your local target, taking a look around and seeing all of the stay at home moms and they buy all of their main groceries from Target because who actually does that? It is your run-to-target outfit that makes you feel like you are better than everyone else because you have a recyclable bag, you shop at Target, and your hair looks great and you're wearing Lulu Libbym. Yes, I hold that stereotype as well, but the shameful thing, and we're going to get into

the employee side of the situation because that's in a way like the cultier side. But as consumers, I think people explain away a lot of problematic aspects of the brand that are culty for sure, but maybe like culty light, not full blown, directly abusive by just saying like, well, it's a great product. I care about wellness and like, I need to take care of my body and this is the only thing I can wear while doing that. I can wear leggings from Walmart and care about my body.

Listen, speak truth to power. Nike is cheaper, you know? Fully and better branding, swish. So let's go over a couple brand controversies that have to do with this sort of new agey misinformation angle. According to Business Insider, and Business Insider has such juicy, fascinating pieces about the cult of Lululemon for further reading. Check out the show notes. But first of all, just to like go back. In 2007, Lululemon falsely claimed its clothes were made with seaweed.

claimed its clothes were made with seaweed. Wilson argued on his corporate blog, okay, Influencer, that illness was mostly a choice. This perspective can be found across Lululemon brand marketing, subtly and not so subtly. He wrote that health attracts health, sickness attracts sickness. So very like Bastardia's law of attraction energy.

And one of the company's corporate mantras is, stress is related to 99% of all illness. According to HuffPo, in a misguided attempt to appeal to aspiring yogis, the company has been doling out a reusable tote bag with the Sanskrit term for celibacy on it. I don't know, man, monk-like. And here's the hypocrisy to me,

is that the juxtaposition of preaching celibacy while also demanding that women be sexy is beyond cult red flag. It's cult-like, it's predatory. You started the brand because you were looking at a young instructor's butt and said, hmm, how can I make it better? You only really hire young hip

it girls. You promote only being a young hip it girl, and then they must be pure. It's giving predatory. The hypocrisy is it's just shameless. I mean, that's the through line from soup to nuts with Lulu Lemon for me. It's the shamelessness of this ideology juxtaposed with the fact that it is quote unquote, just a leggings brand. So how bad can it be? Have either of you ever worked retail in your life? Unfortunately. So I did find this article in salon

by a former Lululemon employee named Mary Mann titled, Yoga Spinning and Murder, My Strange Months at Lululemon. Where she detailed, first of all, the extremely cult cult training process for new hires. Every day for a week before you start, there is pretty much like a religious ceremony. There's group yoga. And then the mornings were dedicated to lectures on the subjects of willpower. They would show videos on the importance of goal setting. That would star of course Chip Wilson, Almighty God. Afternoons were for group folding sessions. Every day we get together and just fold the

clothes all day long, which fair enough is part of the job. But it just sounded to me like extra busy work, strategic monotony to get them in a mindless impressionable state. And evenings were spent pouring over required reading. For example, a self-help book by a dude named Jim Collins, corporate self-help book called Good to Great. Employees would be assigned to craft goal sheets, lists of life goals for the next 10 years, to be framed and hung on the walls of the stores. This was a required part of the training. What do you make of this?

They knew who they were attracting. You know what girls I see? Those white college sorority girls. I said like that. They're like, oh, I have a community. Oh, we get to do yoga. Super easy, right? This is setting me up for the future.

Like I'm so excited about all the things that I'm learning and I'll get the perfect letter of recommendation from Lulu Lemon. 100%. Cause at the end of the day, like it is just a retail job, but kind of like Starbucks or Trader Joe's, and in my opinion, like spoiler alert,

I think Lulu Lemon is culture, but it's one of these businesses that imbues its employees with this sense of higher purpose. You are not just selling leggings, you're not just selling cookie butter or whatever, you're not just making lattes. You are important. That's the vibe I get from Lululemon. It's like elite. Yeah.

And that's what makes them feel like they're better than everybody else. And you bring that into the store, like if you don't have these leggings, your camel toe will show and nobody will love you and you'll never become a veterinarian. How will you ever live? It's funny you say that thing about the camel toe because I've watched like mini documentaries

about like the rise of Lou Lemon. And one of the original differentiators for the brand was that like triangle of fabric that goes on your hoo-ha so that when you go spread eagle, no one will be able to see up your universe, you know? They were like, we are gonna protect your little flower ladies with this little square because how dare anyone ever see a labia?

See, it's creepy behavior. The fact that he thought about that on his own and was like, I love women, I love their butts, but you know what, I can't stand their vagina. And I will make sure that I not only protect their vagina, but I will make sure that no one else sees it because they must be pure and only show their vagina, but I will make sure that no one else sees it because they must be pure and only show their vagina to me in the dressing rooms.

Oh my God, I'm dead. It's like, these folds are all similar, but Colt Daddy is telling us which should be covered and which should be seen. I wanna talk a little bit about some of these allegations, I want to talk a little bit about some of these allegations, about putting the cult in company culture. So there are a couple of great business insider articles about this topic. One of them is titled, Some Lulu Lemon Retail Employees Say There is an Environment of Toxic

Positivity. Insider spoke with more than a dozen current and former Lululemon retail employees, many of whom said that there is an extremely exclusionary retail culture, shocking, I know. Many workers said that they were or still are heavily encouraged to exercise daily. And in the piece, it talks about how workers feel pressure

to spill personal information with their managers, but they're also always getting feedback, including on their personal growth and the constant feedback, even in an environment where you're supposed to be vulnerable and sharing your big dreams can feel like bullying. What are your thoughts on this incredible pressure to spill your guts in a workplace? It was a spiritual, I don't want to share anything. So soon as they start asking questions, I'm unthinkable. I am by nature an overshare.

It's kind of who I am, but it's usually because I don't feel pressure to overshare. And then I'm like, oh, and let me tell you everything that's happening in my life. But if I feel pressure to overshare, I'm shutting down like a hermit crab because why are you asking me about my personal life and my mommy issues? That's not your business. I can relate to you both. I too, I'm like an overshare by nature

until you want me and are baiting me into oversharing. The thing is, and any good cult leader knows, people love talking about themselves. You do not have to try that hard to get someone to dish, because people are already primed to wanna just like, like word vomit their entire life. And it's like kind of low key bad cult leader strategy to demand it,

because then you're gonna get threaded out in a business insider article. A little bit more about like the toxic culture there. Lululemon retail employees allegedly start their shifts with an exercise known as clearing in which the shift manager asks each person in a group setting whether they had any issues that they didn't wanna bring onto the floor that day.

Staffers are told that by clearing these issues, they'd be in a better state to help customers. Instead, many employees said that these exercises felt incredibly violating and uncomfortable. And I'll tell you, this sort of like group therapy, let's air it all out, even though it's mortifying or even traumatizing. This energy is found in so many cults.

They do it at Amazon, they do it in MLMs. They all do it. I think it's because it's then I can save you, right? If Taz tells us in our group meeting, oh, I just went through this horrible breakup this morning, I'm just not in my right space, I would like to just get it out. And then Taz has a bad day selling. I can be like, Taz, I know that your ex made you feel like you were less than nothing, but you are something. You are the best. Now go out there and sell those leggings. Like I'm able to manipulate her trauma into making her do what I want her to do.

That's not Taz's real story. Just made that up. It really tracks with the whole, this is not just an apparel store. This is like a new Age movement kind of vibe. So get this, after their first year of employment at Lululemon, staffers are sent to outside extracurricular seminars that Chip Wilson, the founder, has personally benefited from. It's not like if you don't go, you'll get fired, murdered, whatever.

But you're like heavily, heavily coerced to go. Why do you think it has gone so over the top? Stay at home while I'm derailing. Okay, you always put it in the most succinct of terms. It's not that complicated. I just think that it's this wanting to be involved, like this wanting to be it. And it's the age of influence before the age of influence we know now. Like if you look on TikTok right now and just look up like hashtag soft girl life,

there's everybody telling you how to do it. And it makes you be like, to be a woman, I must be a soft girl and I have to do all of these things. And why am I not taking a bubble bath every evening? And why is my laundry detergent not in special little cases instead of the laundry detergent bottle it came in. And that makes people feel like they're missing out.

And Lulu Lemon was able to do that before TikTok existed, before any of that, you felt left out. I was reading something earlier and they were like, you knew who the it girls were even in high school because they would bring their lunches and their reusable little lemon totes and everybody else was bringing their lunches in their regular lunch boxes or in brown paper bags or if you were like me, the grocery bag that was left over and it's this wanting to fill in when you're not.

It's like the girls with the very brally pencil pouch. I was a very brally girl and I was a very brally girl with the pouch because of influence because my circle of friends had it and I wanted it badly and I was like I'm finally hit girl. Dude that paisley was hypnotic. It was a little boho for me just saying but it was it was a cult. It was fully a cult and you're so right. Lululemon has been able to weaponize FOMO in a way that is impressive combined with just like the toxicity of the wellness industry in general, the fitness industry in general in this culture and the body image stuff, the racism and like all of it combined like of course it's a cult. It's actually set up perfectly even though it's just leggings and that trickles from the corporate

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to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash cult. Join me and follow the podcast Conspiracy Theories, where we explore what's really going on behind the official narrative. Like what if the Loch Ness Monster isn't a monster at all, but an elephant? What do the richest 1% know that we don't, and why are they building all those bunkers? And really, what the heck is going on with the Denver Airport? Join me every week to see just how high up this goes

on the Spotify podcast, Conspiracy Theories. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. ["Culti Vibes"] Lululemon, we all know, has a culty vibe. You can smell it from a mile away. Would you say that there are any other workout brands, or specifically workout apparel brands, that rival it in terms of cultishness?

Fabletics is definitely getting up there. The subscription model too. I will say that I have subscribed to the Fabletics cult. I give them my money every month unless I remember to skip it. Also Savage Fenty, it's giving culty, but I will totally be a part of any cult that Rihanna is the leader of without shame.

Here's the crazy thing though, is that like the two brands that you just named, they make use of like celebrity endorsements. Obviously like Fenty's Rihanna's brand, Fabletics always has celebrity ambassadors. And that's a classic advertising technique. It doesn't take a freaking genius to like dish out some money to have a celebrity hawk your shit.

Lulu Lemon is culting in a completely different way because like it doesn't need celebrity spokespeople. It just needs rich white women. America's ultimate celeb. Yeah, once you have rich white women and you make it so that black women can't afford it, they're like, yes, and I am superior. That's all it is,

because I really never understood what it was. I walk in the store and I'm like, who not welcome here and I walk out of the store. It just doesn't make sense. Like I walked into Fabletics today when I was at Perimeter Mall. And at least I saw a black person behind the counter and somebody said, hey, how are you?

Want to check how many member credits you have? And I was like, yes, I do, to see if I wanted to buy something today. And Lululemon, I immediately was like, hmm, I don't think that I'm good enough to be in here. So I left. That is fucked. And I want to hear more about that because if you Google the cult of Lululemon, if you look into it for.05 seconds, you will find that Business of Fashion had an article titled, At Lululemon, Being Black is Off Brand.

They interviewed 14 current and former Lululemon employees, including sales associates, global ambassadors and corporate managers in the US and Canada. They all collectively described the corporate culture at Lulu Lemon as being categorically unwelcoming of black people. Staffers who drew the company's attention to these issues told Business of Fashion that they were passed over for promotions, reprimanded, and in several cases had their employment terminated, aka fired, disowned, disbanded, ousted from Zekult. But yeah, like in my opinion, this is obviously one of the things that makes the brand different and cultier and more toxic

than other workout brands. Like is there another workout company that is equally racist and toxic in this way? Like does that exist or does it not? Right, so you put for a while Victoria Victoria's Secret was long in that direction. But I've noticed at least I don't really shot Victoria's Secret, but I do like the pink brand. I know they've been putting a lot of work into diversifying their brand. They're making a sex clothes now. They make plus size and plus size models and all size

models throughout the website. But you know, for a while, they didn't want their fashion models like in the fashion show. Somebody said that they should make it more size inclusive and he responded something like, we don't want to see big girl in the lingerie or something like that. Totally. I remember that. Yeah. And I do remember Lulu Lemon at one point that horrible founder was in an interview

and they were talking about Lulu Lemon being see-through and he was like, well, maybe it's not meant for their body types, basically meaning like their fat, that's why it's see-through, and he was like, well, maybe it's not meant for their body types, basically meaning like they're fat, that's why it's see-through. But this is not a workout brand, but it's very much giving aeropostal vibes. Oh my God, I forgot about them. I remember in high school when I was my skinniest, that I was like, oh, it's still not meant for a girl

with junk in the trunk. I can't put my butt in here, even when I was like wearing a very small size, and if I went to Ross, I could find a pair of shorts in the same size and they would fit. And even there, when you walked into an aeropostal, especially old school aeropostal where you could, you know, smell it from across the mall, you walked in there and you weren't welcome as a black girl.

Yeah. It's like fully not a joke and like not overdramatic to note the sizing of the clothing and the cuts of the clothing and the vibe of the store. It's all working together to create a cult-like environment that's only welcoming of this one like very, very, very conformist image. Just for some stats, in 2020, finally, Lulu Lemon was like, okay, we'll set up a diversity, equity, inclusion department, whatever. A lot of employees said that it was performative just to protect the company image. And it was like not an effective piece of programming whatsoever.

Also in 2020, they committed to inclusive sizing in scare quotes and added six of their core styles, sizes up to size 20. But to your point, the proof is in the pudding. They are clearly not trying to diversify their brand. They're just like, sorry, that's not Lululemon's thing. Lululemon's a cult. Cults aren't for everyone, sorry. And it happened in 2020.

Do you know how many diversity, equity, and inclusion rollouts happen with every single company, every single theater, every single everything. After George Floyd's death, everybody was said, oh no, we're going to get canceled. Let us roll out some DEI things. And a lot of diversity, equity, and inclusion chairs that were added to companies do not have a job today

because it was performative. And Lululemon is not the only person that did a fake DEI and they're not the last. that did a fake DEI. And they're not the last. I've seen it in every single sector from the performing arts down to athletic rare down to shoe brand. Like it doesn't matter. You did it because you didn't want to lose your brand. And you knew that white women at the time had white guilt. And they were going to stay buying Lululemon because they were like, who okay, Lululemon safe. They did a DEI. I am not going to be caught a racist because I have Lululemon because they were like, whoo, okay, Lululemon's safe, they did a DEI, I am not gonna be caught in races

because I have Lululemon, thank you so much. And it's all bullshit. You know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of CrossFit. I mean, the whole brand is like skinnier than CrossFit, more bougie, more elegant, more sort of like ding, dainty. But Greg Glassman, the founder of CrossFit, stepped down in 2020 because everyone was finally like,

see dude is racist, which people had been saying forever, but it finally took until white people were like loading their Amazon carts with white fragility and the rest for them to be like, okay, yes, now we're all ready to dethrone this person because we will feel better personally if we do that now. What a culty ass fucking time. Because obviously being in America is a culty experience.

But then there's an extra cultish layer whenever brands try to paint themselves as like learning and growing when really like they don't care. They just want to keep making money. Whatever minor rebrand will help them do that. They will do it. Yeah. 2020 was all performance art. That's all it was.

It was a flash mob. ["I'm Here To Kill You"] Well, now I understand why people are out here murdering. We're finally ready. I've been itching to hear about it. Thank God you're here, especially you, Taz, because I feel like you have the gift of telling true crime tales.

I do not. There was a whole ass murder in a Lulu lemon location. Can you talk about like what led us here and what happened with that murder? So we did an episode on this and the murderous is Brittany Norwood. Brittany kind of grew up very privileged. She hung out with these eight girls. She had nice things, but she also had a piece of her sticky fingers.

It was still for her coworkers. There are stories of people who would be like, we were at work and I was like, oh y'all, there's no part from my garden. She was like, oh, that smells great. Where'd you get it from? Her perfume comes up missing and Brittany's like, look, well, we picked up the first film you mentioned,

like very obvious. And so, she was working at a little lemon store. They were having issues with this at the store and everybody knew it was Brittany, but they couldn't prove it. And so they tried to fire it and she fought it. But she wasn't wrong, she fought it. She was like, they're firing me for stillness

when I was doing so they they moved to another location. Or she continued to steal like from other employees and stuff here. So now everybody's like, we just have to catch her if we can catch her. We can fire her. And like, there's no loyalty with that co-worker. So she's stealing from them too. Like that she doesn't restore their brains. And there's no limits.

Just still from anybody. So one night is at work. And at this point, the store is legit trying to catch her. And if you've worked in retail, you'll know like, before you leave, they check your bag to make sure you didn't steal anything. And it's not like they're like rummaging through it, but it's like, oh, we're back.

Okay, you're good. So they are at the store by the time they make cuts, it's just part of it. And one other person there, Jaina, and they're leaving. Jaina does a bad check and Brittany has leggings on her back and she's like, hey girl, did you buy these leggings? She's like, yeah, I bought them. She's like, okay, let me show you your seat when going. She was like, oh, I didn't get her a seat. And she was just like, okay, well, who rang you up? And she was like, hello, such a such ring me up.

So she was like, okay, I'll just log on to the computer, but they had already closed. So she was like, actually, now that I log on to the computer because that's what it takes to log out, just, you know, verify in the morning and we'll see. So they leave and Jana gets in the car. She calls who it was. And Brittany said, check your, well, she's like, hey, Brittany, buy some leg, I'm sure you use today. She's like, no, she did not.

No, like, all right, we got the bitch. We've loudly caught her stealing, little Judy Ruffles aren't gonna show, we had legies in her bag, like she's gonna get fired, we don't have to deal with her anymore. So they hang up, they go their separate ways, and Brittany calls Jena,

she's like listening live, she has my wallet, I have left it at the store I need you to meet me back at the store. Dana's knowing that Brittany takes part with Tray for taking she probably needs her Metro Clara. She's like, okay. I'll come back and let you in the store So she parks like in the fire lane whenever it goes inside led to Brittany in the store and once they get in there Brittany's thoughts are driving her. She's letting her with anything she can find. She's cutting her, she's stabbing her. She's beating her over the head, hitting her in the head with those hooks

that hang up the clothes in the store. I think that was like the deadly blow to her. But like overall, they said that she must've been hit or struck, estimated 331 times. Like she ought to act hard. And not stabs, beating. She's just grabbing everything. So she's hitting her with a metal.

She's punching her. She's stabbing her. She is going through it. That girl was beat down in the worst way. Like anything she could get her own. So I used it to accept this quote. Women are resourceful. I mean, the toolbox that they keep.

Now Apple is working late next door because iPad 2 is about to drop. And they hear some commotion, but nobody goes in and checks. And so there is blood, of course, everywhere all over the store. Oh God, that image of like a pristine Lou Lemon store. It's like, you wanna mess it up a little bit,

but the image of that is so haunting. And this is mostly in the stock a little bit, but like, it's so bad. So now Britney's like, hey man, Jaina's car is parked at a fire lane. Like that's gotta raise red slings because they said be there. Also, their boss works close,

and I guess she had a date. She's like, she'll drive cash, she'll see the car. So Britney puts like on a black hat, she goes outside and moves the car. Don't know where she left it, but she moves the car and goes back into the store. Now she's like, I said, what's it be able to crime scene? Obviously cleaning it is not going to work.

So she begins the age and get, there is like a men's shoe back there because they like to tailor their leggings to the people and so they would use a shoe to tailor pants or whatever. So she puts on the shoes and walks around in the store making size 14 bloody footprints everywhere. Stop it. She takes off her shoes.

She was washing them in a bathtub and seeing her footprints. She's the one that's saying, and then she puts her clothes, puts her panties, to try and make it look like she was a salt-sweeping. She hits herself a little bit, punches herself, blacks her the eye, cuts herself a little bit, wants to look beat up, ties her legs, ties her hands, and puts them over her head. And lays her foot like this all night,

waiting for somebody to discover her. So when the boss comes in to open his door the next morning, she goes into the store, she sees it's trashed and she sees two feet sticking out from the back room and she's like screaming customer from Apple next door. He calls and checks out what happens. He goes to the back and he's like, there's blood everywhere. I think they're dead. You know, we're just like, you're making unconscious.

Still waiting for somebody to discover and check on her. They call for help and they discovered that Jane has passed and they're like, well, we got it. And we saved Brittany. This horrible person has done this and we have to save them. So they go take her to the hospital. They get her story. She says that two people came in, black outfits and a attack veil. All she heard was the cutting and the stabbing and the beating. She says they raped her like she is telling a tale and completely blame to total random people who she made up her own. She's trying to get away with a hundred dollar fair length.

This is about a hundred dollar fair length. This is a very popular story. This is a very popular murder. This is a very popular murder. Of course, I want to ask about the end of the story and what happened. But before we get into that, I want to know what you make of it. This story almost has a cult following. Like a lot of true crime podcasts have covered it.

Why do you think that is? What do you think is so alluring about the story that makes people rubber neck at it? I just think it's the scandal of it all. Like it is the fact that a black girl killed a white girl over a pair of leggings. It is the fact that in this prestigious Lululemon, someone died and that Lululemon is still open.

With true crime, honestly, there is this level of, it can't happen to me, but like Jaina did not think that she was going to get murdered that night because she caught the girl with leggings. There's this old saying that if you lie, you steal. If you'll steal, you'll kill. And it's like people that are kleptomaniacs, they may kill you for real. I think all of us know people that steal, but it's like this level of, mm, there may be more intensity behind that just to keep them out of trouble. You can find more photos about this case. You can see the crime scene about this case. It's easily googled. When you see the case and you see Britney's picture of her being tied

up, first of all, her hands weren't tied to anything. So the fact that her hands were over her head, it made no sense. And it looks like a modeling picture. It looks fake and it's the unbelievable of it all. Honestly, I think I would have just said, hey, I left. I don't know what happened to her. I went home. Right, right.

It's such a cinematic story. And I think like the way that you're describing it, stories really fascinate us when there are these unbelievable juxtapositions. It's the juxtaposition of like innocence and prestige and scandal and violence and horror, you don't expect something like this to happen among women. You don't expect something like this to happen

at a fricking Lulu lemon. You don't expect something like this to happen over an expensive frivolous purchase. And I was just looking it up, but it seems like women are far more likely to have kleptomania than men are. According to the recovery village, around 63% of people who report having the condition I'm just looking it up, but it seems like women are far more likely to have kleptomania than men are. According to the recovery village, around 63% of people who report having the condition

are female. It comes up from time to time whenever we talk about groups where the cult leader happens to be a woman. We give people the amount of power we sort of expect and want them to have. So in the tech space, it's always men. In politics, it's always men, not always, but mostly. And so it's like, kleptomania is a type of crime that women are sort of like allowed to have. It's like a girly crime.

That's the permission structure for women to be bad in this culture. But Brittany Norwood, like from all intents and purposes, she was rich. She had well parents. She didn't have to steal for food or anything like that. Like I can see kleptomania happening with black women. Like you can think about the socioeconomic statuses of it all. Like there are a lot of people that steal for survival and women as

nurturers. I'm going to steal to feed my children and I will also kill you behind my children. But she stole for no reason. Whatever bottle of perfume that she stole from her coworker, her parents could have bought for her. that she stole from her coworker, her parents could have bought for her. Whatever she stole from her soccer teammates, her parents could have bought for her. She didn't grow up poor. She didn't grow up wanting for anything. It really was, I don't know, maybe the thrill of the chase. Yeah. Oh, I've never really looked into the causes of kleptomania, but it sounds like some of the things that cause cult-leadery behavior might cause kleptomania just manifests differently. Okay, so in terms of the plot, what happened?

How was Brittany found out and what happened to her? Brittany's story started to make less and less sense. She actually clawed the claps. They had asked her if she had seen Janice Carr. They're like, we can't find Janice Carr. We know she was here because she's here, but we can't find her car. He's like, I've never seen her car before in my life.

That's what she tells them initially. Now later she goes back and calls and she was like, actually I just remembered that I did drive her car really quick and parked it over here. They're like, you just remember that you drove her car and she was like, yeah, it was a bad night and I left my black hat in there. And we're like, okay, well, we just discovered a black hat when we were trying to figure out

who it belongs to and now you're speaking to. And I like it's a whole lot of Jena's blood here, not a lot of Britney's blood here. We don't have any suspects that are working out here. Britney's new prints are on the sink. When she tried to wash them off, she says two men attacked her. We only seen one pair of size 14 shoes around the store. It's the same pair of size 14 that stay in the store. There's not a new foot for entering the store.

Like the facts aren't adding up. And her brother is up talking to her. He's like, listen, you need to tell her to get it. She's like, I didn't do it. He was like, I'm not gonna be able to help you. Will she tell me what you did? She's like, I didn't do it. He was like, all right, check this out. You need to learn how to lie.

And I know that you're lying because every time you say you didn't do it, you go and you look over here. And he's like, I'm gonna tell you how to lie because I do it all the time. Pause. This conversation is happening in an interrogation room. It is being recorded. Oh my God.

So he's like, you need to pick the spot in the room and focus on that no matter what you're saying so that your eyes don't shift because you have a tail. If you're gonna stick with this story, you need to at least figure out how to eliminate the tail. So yeah he goes out and he's just like I don't know her story doesn't really make sense to me, he about don't really know what to say. So she besides with all this evidence going against her she still wants to go to trial. They take her to trial, they put all this evidence against her and the jury finds her guilty. And then they have the sentence saying on her end, 60 friends and family.

And Jaina wrote it, asking him to give her life. Like, don't let her out. Don't give her parole. Uh huh. She gives a statement at sentencing addressing the family, but never actually. Listen, I've noticed I said not taught taught like addressing them and it's literally just addressing them because she's like I have been convicted of this crime. Not that I did it.

I'm the one who has been convicted. Right. And I know it'll be hard for y'all, but I hope to show some peace and hope. And, you know, of course, she'll blame me because there's a grieving, but I'm the one who was convicted. So, you know, we're here now and I hope that we can all move on. And then she addresses her family and was like, I said, no, that's for a better family.

Y'all gave me everything I wanted and, you know, I said, no, that's for better people all my life. And so it's like, she's still saying like, you guys are great and wonderful. And she's not admitting to anything going on. Like I had just been the one who was convicted of this time. Okay, Lululemon toxic positivity.

So she was convicted of manslaughter. First degree murder. First degree murder because it was premeditated. Listen. Yes, because the calling her back into the store makes premeditation. Yes, yes. Okay. So my question is, how do you think the cult of Lulu Lemon lent itself to this event happening?

Obviously, like people are not getting murdered in Lulu Lemon left, right and center. But like what factors about Lulu Lemon do you think allowed this to happen? I think that they always had to have like Lulu Lemon clothes and you had to buy it yourself. So there was a sense of her family and her friends knowing that she was a klepto. And there may have been a little bit of like, hey, you need to figure out how to be a grown adult and your own, we're not gonna keep helping you

with these bad habits. And when that happens, like how am I gonna pay for my Lululemon? It also is that I need to be superior no matter what. And her being caught red handedhanded about to be fired for stealing, that is totally against Lulu Lemon standards. Like I am no longer the it girl, I'm the girl that fell down and we at Lulu Lemon do not do that. So it was this way of protecting herself and so even when she tied herself up and became

the victim she can still be the it girl because because you are the victim, and you worked, and you fought really, really hard, and you tried your best, and you gave it your all. Holy shit. You would rather go to prison for murder than not be a Lulu lemon it girl. Yeah, I'd just rather not be the it girl. Me too, I'm wearing leggings right now,

but you can see through them, And I'm fine with that. Just make sure that your panties are fleshed on and you're good. Just don't leave the house. What's my favorite option? If you never leave the house, you can never join a cult. Yeah. Okay, now we're going to play a little game. It is a classic round of would you rather

cult of Lulu Lemon Edition? Would you rather have to dress head to toe in Lulu Lemon for the rest of your life, or dress head to toe like you're an extra in the movie Midsommar for the next five years? Lulu Lemon, if I have to, that means it's probably paid for and I hear the clothes are very comfy. That's the thing. It's really the, the cult is in the price.

If someone else is funding it, go off. Then I'm good. And I will be able to sneak into so many white spaces and just be like, I'm just like you. Just like reveal the little, the little logo on the butt. Be like, look. Yes. Like love don't cost a thing when Kenan's character was like,

look, I got Sean John too and he earned Sean John to his pants. He was like, see, I got it too. That's me. What about you, Taz, are you Lululemon or are you going flower crown Scandinavian all white robe? I'll go Lululemon. OK, scary. All right, would you rather?

Okay, first of all, before I ask this question, we didn't even get to go over this. The Lululemon tote bags with all those phrases on them are so insane. I don't know if anyone has really taken a close look at the shopping bags that you literally, you buy your leggings, you leave Lulu lemon, not with a paper bag

that your leggings are in, but with a cloth bag that's covered in these mantras that Chip Wilson coined himself. Some of them are fine, some of them are like, friends are more important than money, okay, hypocrisy, but like generally not that bad. Jealousy works opposite the way you want it to. That's barely English, but again generally not that bad. Jealousy works opposite the way you want it to. That's barely English but again not that bad.

But then there are some quotes on this bag that are so fucking low-key dangerous. Nature wants us to be mediocre because we have a greater chance to survive and reproduce. Mediocrity is as close to the bottom as it is to the top, and will give you a lousy life. He really thought, he was like, glass half empty, glass half full, what will it be?

Okay, let's say this one, sunscreen absorbed into the skin might be worse for you than sunshine. Get the right amount of sunshine. Okay, tell the Pasty Girls that when they have skin cancer from getting burnt all the time. So on that note, would you rather tattoo the Chip Wilson quote, goal-setting triggers your subconscious computer

on your forearm, or tattoo Hail Satan on your ass? Maybe Hail Satan on my ass and you get a cover of later? Boom, I agree. Okay, loophole. Hail Satan on the ass is funny. I was really tickling myself with that the other day. Last one, would you rather work retail at Lulu Lemon for a year or convert to Mormonism for a year?

Ha ha ha. Only for a year? I think I could do a year as a Mormon. I know that's so sweet. Only a year as a Mormon? Yeah, I think I could do it. Yeah, and then you're like, sorry, I've changed my mind, and then you get excommunicated, and it's true. Sorry, I want coffee.

I'm good. Oh, that's the thing. Yeah, being Mormon, you can't coffee. Maybe I can't do that. Hold on. No, I can't. Think about how much you really gotta give up. I can't give up iced coffee, because I know't do that. Hold on. No, I can't. You can tell how much you really gotta give up. I can't give up iced coffee.

Because I know at Lulu Lemon, everybody will come in with their iced coffees. Okay. Last question, most important question that comes at the end of every episode of Sounds Like A Cult, the cult of Lulu Lemon, out of our three cult categories, Live Your Life, watch your back, and get the fuck out.

What do you two think the cult of Lululemon falls into? I think it's a watch your back. And I say that because technically, leggings should not hurt anyone, but it's really the people inside of the leggings that can ruin your life in so many different ways. Yeah, it's a watch event. The orientation is a brainwashing session, so.

Completely, yeah. I think it's even a worse watch your back than like SoulCycle even, maybe a little bit. SoulCycle almost got me, but they were too expensive. That's the thing, is that these cults are too cost prohibitive. Okay, murder, that's really bad. But all in all, net answer is watch your back.

Taz and Mara, thank you so much for joining this episode of Sounds Like a Cult. If people wanna keep up with you and your pod and your storytelling and your friendship, where can they do that? Yes, you can follow sisterswhokill, S-I-S-T-A-S, WhoKill on Instagram, on Twitter, on TikTok, on Facebook. We release an episode every Friday

and you can find us anywhere except for YouTube. We are pretty active on all of our social media platforms, Sisters Who Kill, Sisters Who Kill Pod, Sisters Who Kill Podcasts. You should be able to find us, because if you find anybody else, you let us know. And our cult will get them. And our cult will get them.

Incredible. Well, that's our show. Thanks so much for listening. Stick around for a new cult next week, but in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty. But not too culty! Sounds Like a Cult is hosted and produced by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore of the Podcabin. Our theme music is by Casey Colb. This episode was made with production help from Katie

Epperson. Our intern is Rhys Oliver. Thank you as well to our partner, All Things Comedy. And if you like the show, please feel free to check out my books. Wordslet, A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language, Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, and Before Coming, The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality.

If you're a fan of Sounds Like a Cult, I would really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and review on Apple irrationality. If you're a fan of Sounds Like a Cult, I would really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.