Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Plastic Surgery

Episode Date: July 19, 2022

How much would you risk in pursuit of perfection? It’s another installment of “Cult Girl Summer” bonus content. This week, Amanda and Isa speak candidly (like reallllllly candidly) about a glamorous and life-threatening industry that sucks you in with promises of beauty and never lets you out: Plastic surgery—featuring very special guest, Emmy-nominated comedian/actress, Sydnee Washington!  Dipsea is offering an extended 30-day free trial at DipseaStories.com/CULT Everlywell is offering listeners 20% off an at-home lab test at Everlywell.com/CULT Get Honey for FREE at JoinHoney.com/CULT Get 10% off your first month at BetterHelp.com/CULT

The views expressed on this episode of Sounds Like a Cult, as with all of our episodes, are solely host and guests' opinions. This podcast is meant for entertainment purposes only. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm Amanda Montell, author of the book Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism. I'm Issa Medina, and I'm a comedian. Every week here on our show, we discuss a different fanatical fringe group to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? To join our cult, follow us on Instagram at SoundsLikeACultPod. I'm on IG at Amanda underscore Montell, and I'm on IG at Issa Medina.

You can also check us out on YouTube or on Patreon, where our episodes are available ad free at patreon.com slash soundslikeacult. Welcome to another installment of Cult Girl Summer! These are five weeks of juicy bonus episodes where we're releasing behind the scenes, tidbits, much requested part two's, uncut cult conversations, and more. This week, we're going to be discussing the cult of plastic surgery. We actually recorded and edited the beginning and end of this episode last summer before we had a studio or an editor or any idea of our future. And it's kind of fun to listen back and reminisce. So anyway, here's the episode. We've been wanting to talk about the cult of plastic

surgery for a while, in part because we both have a personal experience with this. Wait, what do you have? Well, I don't know. Just like Botox. Botox. I used to work in the beauty industry, so I would report on plastic surgery a lot. I mean, I wouldn't not do it. I wouldn't put plastic surgery completely off the table for me. I just haven't done it yet. But yes, no, I've altered my body in probably every other possible way. Yeah. And I, if you didn't already know, have a boob job. Yes, small. It's a small boob job. But I recently I've seen it. She has. I mean, I came, I got my boob job in Columbia because it's cheaper and I knew a doctor and I'm from Columbia. He had done my mom's boobs runs in the fam. But I came back from Columbia and I was like

showing everyone. I mean, what's the point of getting them if you're not going to do that? I know. I feel bad for like my friends who weren't here while I was in that stage because like because they missed out. They missed out. Like I'm not like walking into a room, taking my shirt off anymore. But like that was me for literally two months. It was like a Mardi Gras phase. Yeah. I was just like, I didn't give you any beads. No, I think it's interesting to start there with talking about how you got your surgery in Columbia because the culture of plastic surgery and how culty it seems or not does differ from country to country. Yeah. Like what is it? One in three people in South Korea, one in three people in Brazil.

I did not know that. Honestly, I feel like that statistic might be true for Columbia. Right. Plastic surgery is so common in Columbia, but it's so, so well done. You would never know people have it. Actually, I just looked up the stats and Columbia is one of the top three countries whose citizens get the most plastic surgery at least as of 2020. Brazil gets the most, then Argentina, then Columbia. Well, we are looking good. You really are. I'm obsessed with plastic surgery just because I used to be a beauty editor, which I bring up all the time. I still can't believe it. I feel like I bring it up just to remind myself that that wasn't just like a weird fever dream because at that time, I definitely felt like the beauty industry was

a cult in its own way. And I felt pressure to conform in like every other way but going under the knife. Bleach, blonde hair, Botox, spray tans, eyelash extensions, all of it. And plastic surgery was like not not uncommon, not controversial to a degree though. Yeah. Some procedures are more controversial than others. I feel like rhinoplasty is now one that a lot of people use the excuse that they like can't breathe. Yeah. And then everyone's getting a nose job. Well, growing up Jewish in like upper middle class Jewish circles, it was like you turn 16 and get your nose job. Yeah. And in Columbia, it's like a lot of people same nose job or boob job when they were like 16 to 18. It's fascinating because I watch if anybody watches the Netflix

explained series, it's like my boyfriends and my favorite show. They recently did like a deep dive breakdown of plastic surgery. It's fucking fascinating, very educational. I watched it when I was high. So I was like more mind blown than I maybe would have otherwise been. But I had no idea the origins of plastic surgery that it started to reconstruct war victims faces and like victims of syphilis. I didn't know that's how it started. But that makes sense. I mean, there's a lot of doctors without borders doctors that go into like underdeveloped countries and give surgery to people that need it. Right. Like it's like a reconstructive surgery. Yes. And there was an element in that episode that talked about how Jewish people would get nose jobs to literally

evade persecution. They would shave down their nose so they wouldn't be clocked as Jewish. That's horrible. I think it's really interesting how plastic surgery evolved from a health thing or reconstructive thing to this very image focused vein thing. But also as plastic surgery gets more common and as surgeons get better at it, it becomes more accepted. Yeah. And also more accessible because it's kind of like this vicious cycle. There weren't as many people who could afford plastic surgery. So there weren't as many cosmetic plastic surgery doctors and then more people started to be able to afford it. So more doctors came into the industry and then it created cheaper versions of the same surgery. Brazilian butt lift for those unfamiliar Brazilian

butt lifts were ground breaking. You speak fluent plastic surgery. I speak fluent plastic surgery. Yeah. They were, you know, they were the first of their kind. But then if a doctor has like mastered it and people have studied it and then they literally learn about it in school, then it's like you don't need to be like the best plastic surgeon to be able to do that. I do think it's very interesting and speaks a lot to how we interpret our own beauty and beauty standards in general that you're someone who like doesn't really wear makeup, doesn't really dress to the nines typically, but you did get a boob job. Yeah. But I like really do my makeup and like my hair. You look good right now. Thank you. I'm wearing a lipstick. Thanks. It's literally

look like a boy if it wasn't for these boobs. I'm wearing a Laura Mercier in Laurence. Oh, but I think that where plastic surgery starts to get culty is well in my mind, it's two things. It's first of all, this the standard that has been set beauty wise has largely been shaped by plastic surgery and specifically the Kardashians. Yeah. They're responsible for the beauty standard right now. Like look around, look on Instagram. Everybody's trying to look like a Kardashian, which is an image that cannot be achieved without plastic surgery. They also use hella filters. Even with plastic surgery, they still need to add on filters that mold their bodies. So they're convincing people that if they don't look

like this, then they're ugly and they're not up to standard. And it's the most unattainable beauty standard literally there's ever been because you literally need to have technology, thousands upon thousands of dollars and to put your life at risk in order to achieve it. Yeah. Going under the knife is fucking scary. Like I had never done it before and I went to Columbia and I stayed with family. So my cousin drove me to the hospital and she like waited for me there, but like my parents were in the US. So like before I went under, I like called my mom and I was like, goodbye, you know, like, you don't know. Seriously, like I love you. No, I mean, speaking of like nobody talks about this enough. The secrecy surrounding plastic surgery and celebrities is so disturbing.

There's a YouTube channel that I watch called, well, the person who runs it is named Laurie Hill and her whole channel is dedicated to like breaking down the plastic surgery procedures. She thinks different celebrities have gotten and certain celebrities like Ariana Grande, Kendall Jenner, Kendall Jenner, their stands will defend to the death that they haven't gotten surgery. Look at them. The brow lift procedures I've never even heard of. And the thing is they're such, such tiny procedures, but they're probably like 10 tiny procedures. So they add up to making this like perfectly symmetrical person who looks like a cartoon who literally looks like the idealized version of like what men want to fuck. It's entirely impossible to achieve and 100% a combined

version of a thousand different surgeries. When I was getting my boob job, I like screenshot a lot of famous people's boobs that I like wanted my boobs to look like and send them to my doctor. Oh my God, I'm sure your camera roll is very interesting. It's insane. And I mean, it worked because they look great. They do. They look really good. They look very natural. Thank you. I thought boob jobs made people have like Pamela Anderson basketball boobs. That's just like before people knew how to do it right. I think of like I'm like a true 90s baby because I picture like a a playboy play exactly triple F. But that's not what I wanted mine to look like, obviously. And some people actually want theirs to look like that. But I took a picture of like Dua Lipa's boobs,

Kendall Jenner's boobs. I was like, I want like small cute boobs. I just want, I just was just so flat. I don't want to judge people for altering their bodies. Like do whatever the fuck you want. I would never want anybody to judge me. However, you need to be honest. Also else you're affecting young people, kids on Instagram. We alter ourselves in a thousand different ways. Like we read books, you know, like what if you like what if you were to say like that is quite the comparison? Like what if you were to say like, no, I like my brain the way it was when it was born. I don't like reading is altering my brain, you know, like fucking we don't judge. Actually, that's a fair point because intelligence is another sort of classist fucked up standard. Yeah. You know,

owning and reading books is a privilege. Yeah. The privilege of plastic surgery is also like time. You not only need to go under the knife, but like you need to like have the time to recover and take time off work. And it's not available to everyone. And yet this beauty standard is set for everyone. And also people go into debt to get plastic surgery because I don't think everyone out here in America is able to afford $30,000 surgery. But I think where it gets culty is like people who start getting addicted. Oh, that's so real. Because these people, even who have plastic surgery on top of it, apply like filters that are literally unattainable. The people who do get plastic surgery are like, wait, I still don't look like them or I still don't look as perfect as I want.

You always want more. And some doctors are going to just give you whatever you pay for and be like, yeah, you could use a lift here, you could use this, you could use that. I feel like plastic surgery doctors should sign some type of like waiver that says you will stop a person who's addicted to plastic surgery. Yeah. Before we get into our interview, we want to remind you listeners that we do have a Patreon. It's patreon.com slash sounds like a cult. And our episodes are available there ad free. There are also some fun bonuses and extras. My book cult is available for free there. So if you support us on Patreon, even just $5 a month, you'll be able to listen to every single last one of our episodes ad free and more. Well, without further ado, Issa, do you want to introduce

our very special guest today? I am so excited about our guests today. She is one of my favorite comedians. She is an actress model and podcaster. She appeared on Comedy Central's Up Next Showcase and she was just nominated for an Emmy yesterday. Amazing. We are going to be talking to Sydney Washington. Do you want to introduce yourself to our listeners who might be living under a rock? Oh, wow. If you don't know me, that's insane. But I am Sydney Washington. I'm a comedian. I do stand up, a kind of right act, you know, and just overall amazing person that you should have in your life. That's true. That's true. I remember the first time I saw you do stand up was at Barlow Beach like three years ago. Oh my God. Yeah. Wow. That was like during pilot season. It was like

right when I was starting to do stand up, but I was still going to like a lot of shows just because you know, when like you're starting, you're just like obsessed and seeing people all the time. I wasn't out yet, but you were like, who's gay in here? And I like cheered. That's how it starts. That's how you come out to like your stand up friends as you cheer when the person on stage says he's gay. And I was like, this is so fun. I was like, maybe I should come up. Yeah. And then like fast forward to 2022. It's like, who isn't gay? Exactly. Like, why aren't you gay? Like, what's going on? Exactly. It's like concerning. It's like, if you're not cheering, then like, you just don't know that about yourself. It'll come. It'll come. Sydney, I feel like in your stand

up, you often address how you're gay, but you're also femme and we're here to talk about the cult of plastic surgery. So your boobs are fake. They are. So are mine. Surprise. Oh my God, there are six tits in here and only two of them are real. We're the old school girls that are like, we want our boobs natural and modest. Yeah. And it's dumb because it's like, if you spend that much money, like I want everybody to just, you paid for that, right? Yeah. You know, I know. I always talk about that. People are like, why'd you get a small boob job? Like that's un-American. And I'm going to be dragoness to fill. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm Colombian. I got my boob job in Colombia. Wait, you're Colombian? Yeah. I did not know that. Yeah. A lot of people don't. Oh my God. You

are the most American looking Colombian person I've ever met. Yeah. But you actually probably know like Colombian people because you're from New York. Wait, hold on. Okay. This is insane. So when I used to bottle waitress, I used to go to Pasha and Pasha is like a really big like house music, super club or whatever. And they don't have it just in New York. There's one in Ibiza. There's this like community of Colombian women that come and they're either dating the DJs or they just love the music. Yeah. They love like techno or whatever. So whenever I've met a Colombian woman, she's had like the big boobs, the small waist, the big butt, the lips. Yeah. Like the Botox, everything. Like if you're going to get it done, like this is how you should get it done. Oh

yeah. And Colombia, like I know girls from like growing up that got boob jobs when they were like 16 and nose jobs. Yes. It all looks so natural. Like you would never know. But it's just like, so what? This is a beauty pageant. Like aren't we talking about like who cares? My mom got a boob job when I was five or something. And so I grew up thinking she just had like amazing boobs. And then as soon as I was a teenager, she was like, you should get a boob job. And she's been telling me like my whole life. Whoa. Okay. So this is layered and this is very dark for you. But it turned out good because I love that. No, they look great. The fact that somebody has not paid off our debt, the fact that we're not on a yacht somewhere. I mean, it's clear that we have modest

plastic surgery. When I came back from Colombia, I did have like my friend pick me up from the airport and in exchange, I showed her my boobs. Look at that. I mean, you can't get anything for free here. Okay. You got to work for it. No one would ever have to ask you. So she got her tits done because she's talking about it all the time. I feel like I'm lying to people if I don't tell them, you know, like have a bit about telling me the growth. Well, that's the problem right now that I have an issue with is that like everybody has to be so transparent. Why are people lying? It's none of your fucking business. I don't have to tell you anything that's going on in my uterus. I don't have to tell you if I have one nipple or two nipples. Like it's that's my money. This is

my body. Why are you so focused? Why are you so pressed? If my ass is fat and it's fake, that's for me or whoever is around me. I don't know you. You're a stranger. Why are you commenting on my pictures in broad daylight asking so is it real? Yeah, like I'm not coming up to you coming in your apartment and be like, is this couch from Wayfair? Like, I mean, people do that, but I'm just saying it's not the same. It's not the same. No, it's not. That's actually a great point about like your privacy and the reasons why you did something or if you did it or not should be yours and yours alone because I think a lot of people and I feel conflicted about this, a lot of people feel like celebrities should be forthright about their plastic surgery because

then, you know, young people will compare and they want to know like, okay, that's not natural. So I don't have to feel like shit about my tits. What do you think about that like celebrities being transparent about their plastic surgery? Most of our society is mentally ill. So it doesn't matter if they were born with it or they bought it, you're going to see something that somebody else's has and it's going to make you feel bad regardless. Seeing the Kardashians with all this money, that makes me feel bad. Yeah. Oh, but they're celebrities. So what? Like, I feel like I'm two degrees away from being a celebrity. I want that. So it's kind of like whether somebody tells you it's real or not, it doesn't make it better. We did an episode on the cult of the Kardashians and

one of the like negative things we talked about is how like they perpetuate this idea of like a certain body, but they're like paying for it. Are they perpetuating this body type or this is the body type that you guys are obsessed with. And now they're running with it. It's like a chicken or the egg thing, honestly, or maybe a catch 22 is the more accurate term for it. I don't know. I don't know exactly what the Kardashians responsibility to the public is in terms of plastic surgery. We talked more about that in our episode on them, which is coming soon, but they're definitely feeding the beast. And to your point, I do think that that comes back to money. I think their job, their job, because they're like celebrities and influencers or whatever,

they pick up the trends and whatever that is, they're going to take that and be like, this is what we're moving forward with. Yeah. Now Kim and everybody else, they want to be skinny and take their BBLs out. And so now the girls are like, Oh, wait, are we going back to like the early 90s when girls had like eating disorders and low waste of genes and everybody was so anorexic on the red carpet? Are we going to do that? We are going back to that because that's scary interviewing people. That's so scary. And like, we can no longer put like our faith in society in these celebrities or influencers. Yeah. That's the one thing I feel like has come more full circle about plastic surgery. I feel like when I told people that I wanted to get a

boob job, they were like, you don't need it. And I was like, I know, I want it. Yes, I do. Stop telling me what I don't need. Like I think that getting plastic surgery is going to make me feel better and make me feel more confident and it's going to make me move in a world that is already hard and harsh on women. If it's going to make me go in and have the attitude of a mediocre cis straight white dude, then yeah, I'm going to do that. Yeah, that's so true. I do feel like ever since I got my boob job, it's like I feel sexier. I'm confident because I like the body that I have. And I feel like that's like what it's for to feel sexier and move with that confidence. The fucked up thing is, is that you're never really going to be that satisfied. There's always

going to be something else. And even if you are like, oh my God, I love what the doctor did, then you're looking at other things because you're like, well, if this makes me feel better than, oh, do I have a lazy eye? Let me fix my lazy eye. Are you talking about my lazy eye? No, I'm just talking about me. Is something wrong with my big toe? Should I fix my calves? That's the problem with going under the knife. Then you want more. Especially if you have a positive experience, you're like, is there nothing you can't fix? Yeah, absolutely. That's definitely one of the cultiest aspects of it to me, this allure that if you just get this one thing, then you'll be happy and then you'll feel perfect, but you never will. Sidney, what do you think is the cultiest

aspect of the world of plastic surgery? Well, now that it's so open like girls that are getting on the flights and getting the surgery in these other countries and then they're coming back all bandaged up looking like mummies and being like uncomfortable. They're like, yeah, give me on this Delta flight. I need to get back to New York because I have work next week. Like I love the transparency, but also it's like, ma'am, you need to go to whatever like little hideaway house and just get better. Yeah, especially BBLs are like really dangerous surgery. These girls are like rushing their recovery because they need to get back to work. I got my boob job in Columbia because my mom got her boob job in Columbia. It was like the doctor that I knew and I stayed

with family. Okay, keep it in the family. Yeah, I love that. But it's like I had time to recover. So do you think that like downplaying how physically risky and dangerous this is and just acting like you're going through the drive through at Starbucks? Do you think that is one of the most sort of deceptive cultish aspects of plastic surgery? I did it and I went to go work the next week, you know, when I'm literally my arm should be down. I should not be carrying anything. I should not have like, you know, a tray full of shots and beers going towards a group of people who are dancing off beat and have like like 17 fireball shots. Like that's what I was doing. I cannot believe you did that. I could like barely like reach for things. Oh, I can't do that

now. But back then I was just like, this is this is the life that I'm living. It's sick. It's sick. And it's not only just a cult. It's a thing that it's like, do you know how bad society is that someone's like, I'm going to risk my life. Yeah, I see what it has done, how it's damaged people who have all the money in the world. They still can't get their body fixed or their lip that's botched the right way. You know, their facelift has completely fucked up their jobs. Like they we see what the possibility can be on the bad side and they're like, I still want it. I still want to do that. I can die. Like it's sick. I know it's scary. But you also were blaming the women, but it's also like blame where the fuck we are. I was thinking about this the other day because

I wear so much makeup in the studio now when we first started the podcast, we recorded it like on Amanda's bedroom floor, had no video or whatever. And like now that we have video, I get so insecure about posting things online because all these men comment fucking disgusting shit like face for radio, keep it off. It's the men who are perpetuating like these stereotypes, but like it's everybody internalize it. Everybody. I look I'm sick, obviously, because I'll be on Facebook because I have to be on, I have to be on Facebook to see the people that are not like my friends, the people who are so off, the people who are really just have no qualms about being the rudest, the most ignorant and they put it out there and their faces attached to the

comment that they just said, you know, I read it and the people are so ruthless. There's no empathy. They're like, what I have to say is so important. I'm going to write this underneath somebody's picture or someone's comment or whatever. And it's like, this is where we are. Yeah, I grew up with only bullies and mean people would say like off the wall, rude shit. But now it's everybody. Everybody feels like they are entitled to letting someone know how they feel or what they think or to critique. Yeah, it's disgusting already. It's like, I think things all the time. And somebody who's had like podcasts or whatever, I, I'm like, Oh, I could get paid for my opinions. But at the end of the day, I'm like, someone's opinion is dumb. Don't tell nobody that. Just,

just write it. Don't even write it down. Keep it in your head, you know? I know. It's like capitalism has taken our thoughts and we're like, Oh, we need to capitalize on every single thought. Do you think that like this idea that online anonymity and people thinking things aren't like real kind of like leads to people booking surgeries online and kind of thinking whatever, like it's not that big of a deal until like then they're there and then they're like doing it and then they're back and they're like, well, it's done now. It's two things. Two things is like, obviously I can put filters on things. I judge things up so that, you know, people want it. People love transparency, but then they're like, Yeah, I don't want that. Like, where's the fake?

Where's the fake gas it up? Make me feel like you are the coolest person that I need to be around. Right. But then on the other hand, right, we have to do real life. And like we see a lot of these people who are online and it's like, Oh, they don't look like that. Yeah. They're actually a nerve. Like they have social anxiety. This person can't even look anybody in the eyes. And we know this, we are very fully aware of like all the lies that people are spreading on the internet, right? So I see somebody with their body or their lip sun or their botox, whatever, and it looks good online. And then you see them in person, you're like, Oh, actually, this is not good at all. Y'all have to stop promoting this bad surgeries. The lip fillers.

You got to stop promoting these people that are doing a bad job just because you didn't pay for it. So now you're going to have other people jump on this trash bandwagon. It reminds me of like the cult of weddings, which we recorded an episode on. It's like, people already spend so much money that they can't go back on their decision. And so then they get everyone else on board and they make them feel bad for not having a huge wedding. I think the wedding thing and the plastic surgery thing and the like insta fame or whatever social media fame thing all comes back to the same idea, which is just like, we're so fucking thirsty for attention. Attention is like the commodity now as opposed to like, it's a drug. It's an addiction.

Sydney, who do you think are like the cult leaders of the plastic surgery industry? Is it the surgeons? Is it certain celebrities? Is it influencers? I would just say social media. Social media is the cult leaders. They see what can be pushed. They have the power to pay these people to promote the things that they think is going to be the next trend. Yes, celebrities also are trend makers, but at the end of the day, some of them are just, they're real basic too. They have no idea. Like the fact that Kim Kardashian was like Kanye was dressing me. Kanye was dressing me. I know. Like to say that out loud was like, I don't, I don't believe in my style enough that I have to have this other person style me. That's why people get stylish. That's why people have

makeup artists and hairstyle because they're like, I know that I can't do this. I have to hire someone to tell me what to do. So I don't necessarily believe in celebrities all the time because they have a whole team. They have managers. They have people that are like, this is what your look is going to be. This is how you have to be for the next six months. And then next year, this is the trajectory for that. So I really do believe like it's social media that's the leaders of the cult. That's so true. And that reminds me of when you said earlier, like, even if I know that you're doing it because you have money or like, I know the reasons behind it, I still feel shitty. It's kind of like when a celebrity posts an amazing picture of themselves and then they tag their

whole team. They're like, here's my team that made it possible. And it's like 12 people. Even though I know you only look that good because you had 12 people help you get there, it still doesn't make me feel better. Because then it's like, why can't I afford 12 people? Why don't I have that money? Why am I not that? And then they try to make themselves feel better because they're like, well, they're not really doing anything. That person is dumb. Ew, Kim Kardashian is a whore, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, this is how sick this community is now. We're getting mad at the people who you think are in power. They're not. They're not. She is also a puppet. These celebrities are a puppet. After you make millions of dollars, you no longer can be

a normal person. Elon Musk, like, I'm like, if I had that much money, you would never see me again. That's what you think. Speaking of the cult of plastic surgery, Elon Musk and all of his stands get super defensive about his hair transplants. Like, we think that this is something that only affects women, but it affects rich dudes and poor dudes and everyone in between as well. Well, this is my issue, right? First, we get mad at like cis straight men for doing the bare minimum and just rolling out of bed and being like happy with whatever they have. They're rough draft, whatever their face and body. And then when they do get something done, then we're mad at them and they're like, oh, it looks bad. You're a loser. Like, oh, I can see your hair. So do you want them

to be better or not? Like, do you want them? Do you want a Greg to be Greg or do you want him to be a Mr. Potato Head or a Build-A-Bear? Like, what do you want? You are never going to be happy. Yeah. I mean, like women also do that. Like, you just said, like, they do that thing of like, when a man tries too hard, like, if a man does his eyebrows and gets his nails done, people like... He's gay. Yeah. Because only gay men care about themselves. So what do you want? What exactly are you expecting from these people? Like, you're really pushing them to the edge. And I think that the answer is like, nobody knows what they want.

Correct. I mean, I don't know the answer, but it's like, because nobody knows what they want, that's why people join cults. They don't know what they want, but also mental illness. Like, at the end of the day, we have to just be super aware of like, people have extreme chemical imbalances or things that have been not diagnosed. And then they are susceptible to being in a cult, seeing the stuff online and thinking, oh, yeah, I should buy whatever this Facebook ad is. Are you serious, bitch? Are you really at 3 a.m. about to order these lights that are supposed to make you look like you're a celebrity when it's like you have no products? You're not selling anything. But

oh, if I buy these lights, then I could start my new business. What business? What business? You have no business plan. I will say that like, we are living in a particularly delusional time right now. I'm literally writing about this in my new book, which is about cognitive biases in the information age. You know, the people who are most susceptible to joining cults are not always people who have some really egregious mental health diagnosis. I think like, just the fight or flight that we're all in living in this social media-centric society when like, our impulse control is shit, our self-esteem is shit. I think that alone can position any of us into joining

some kind of cult, even if it's just the cult of plastic surgery, you know? That's also weighing in on our mental and our emotional stability, because you're seeing this all the time and then it's a bad habit. Picking up my phone every hour on the hour and then that like restructures what your mind is that fucks you up. So I really do think people who are like, oh, I'm not online like that or I don't have any apps or, you know, they have like a Dell laptop or something like that. Those people, we think they're corny or loose. Those are probably the most sane folks because they're like, I'm not caught up on the trends. People like make fun of those people because they're like insecure that we're being controlled by that higher power of

like social media. And it's like, I wish I could be off social media. And I always say like, oh, if I wasn't like pursuing stand up, like I wouldn't be on social media, but that's bullshit. You know what I mean? I still want the attention from like, at least like my community. You know what I mean? Well, that's why those are the people who are in control. Those are the cult leaders because they know the effect and influence these apps have on us. I mean, Facebook conducted that internal survey a few years ago where they found that young girls in particular, their minds are the worst they've ever been because of the comparisons that we're making online. You're comparing yourself to everyone alive. Whereas when we were in high school or in middle school,

you're just comparing yourself to your actual circle. Maybe on Facebook, you were comparing yourself to kids who went to other schools, but you weren't comparing yourself to everyone alive. Yeah, I just wanted to be Ashley Kaiser. That's all I want to be Ashley. I was like, she is the baddie. But then I looked back on these photos and I was like, yo, we are eyebrows were fucked up. We did not know how to dress. We stayed in wet seal. Like we had no clue what style was, but it was such a, it was such an innocent time. And it was like, Oh, yeah, I didn't believe in myself all the time, but there was this slither of hope that it's like, okay, I'm going to get a little bit older and it's going to get better. And now I'm older and I'm like, yo, it's lowkey worse.

It's worse because we are all on the same toxic path of needing approval. And it's not just approval of the people that you know, it's now these strangers, these freaking strangers that it's like, just because you have Wi-Fi, that doesn't mean you have say so. Yeah, just just because you have a phone, that doesn't mean anything to me. Like I really everybody has a phone. Yeah, everybody has a phone and there's there's no standards. Yeah, you just got for commenting on anything like there's no standard. So who are these people that were and then you see these comments and then because you're like, I don't know this person. I can't count all these people that I don't know. All you see is fucked up stuff. And then you start to believe it, you know,

especially as a stand up, we see these comments on, you know, these videos that we do for networks or whatever. And it literally haunts me. It haunts me too. Because one, I'm like, Oh, I could have done that better, you know, and you don't really start questioning yourself. You get another chance, but you like, you see these comments and like, Yeah, maybe they're right. Maybe I'm not that funny. Right. And then you are, you're psyching, you're psyching yourself out right now for me as an entertainer. It's like, I want to be relatable. I want to be myself. I want to have great relationships with the people I know in real life. And then these other people that I'm just meeting or whatever. But it's like, I don't want to be online all the time. I don't want to have to put my whole,

why do I have to bear my fucking soul for someone to be like, you know what, I want to follow you. And I want to see where you are in five years. And I want to buy a ticket. I don't why do I have to tell you every single trauma that I have? Why do I have to literally put my nipple and tit on the line for you to be like, Okay, now I'm interested. It's just dumb, you know, at this point, I will say comments on on stand up social media posts are particularly brutal. Because I'm not a comedian. I'm I'm an author. And I find that people who hear that people on author and like in this world or you saying author, I'm like, Okay, yes, that is fucking dope. But if you go somewhere where there's like a whole bunch of influencers are like,

author ill, you write like that's gross. Well, yeah. And Amanda also talks about how like, you also have to like be on social media these days, even to sell books. Oh, for sure. You have to like be an influencer to sell books. But what I was going to say is that like, you might receive 100 positive comments, but of course, you're only going to notice the one or two negative ones. Because like, in our mind, those are threats. Those are like snakes in the grass. We're not just going to see the grass. We're going to see the fucking snake because the snake might kill us, you know? What was your perception of plastic surgery when you were like younger versus now? Was it

different at all? I had always had like a really small body type. I was always thinner than my family members. And I grew up in Oakland, California. People had like different body types back then. And then, you know, I went to New York and I lived in Harlem. And so everybody had like, this this Kim Kardashian look, that's like, it's old black and Latina and ethnic women have always had this body type. It's just now that people are like, Oh, this can get you more attention or whatever. But if you go to the Bronx, you go to Harlem, you're going, everybody has this type of body. At one point I was like, Damn, I think like something's wrong with me because I don't have hips. And I don't have, I don't have, I don't have breasts. And the girls

in middle school were getting boobs and I wasn't. And so then high school came and I still didn't have any boobs and everybody was more so natural. I didn't know about plastic surgery until like college. Lucky you. I've known about it because my dad used to call me Neredita, which means like little fridge. The college door fridge. No hips. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it is that thing where like, it changes your perception. And then when you got to college, you were like, I want that. Well, you know, I was just looking at the, you know, Jessica Simpson, Mariah Carey, Jennifer Lopez, like everybody had these particular body types that I was like, I don't, I don't look like that. Like if I had boobs,

I think this would elevate me that it would be easier in relationships. I could wear these American apparel tube top dresses just a little bit better. And soon as I started bottle girl waitressing, that's when I saw, you know, tons of girls had fake boobs. And then the girls that worked with me at this, um, this place called riffraff that everybody had boobs and I didn't. And I was stuffing my bra with those chicken cutlet inserts and stuff in and then I'm wearing three bras and I'm doing all this stuff. And it's just like, girl, just put the money down and get these tips. It's kind of like the more intense version of like getting waxed every month. And then being like, I might as well just get laser, you know, cause like, and I hate wearing

bras. So now I'm like, I don't have to wear a bra because I have the exact boobs. Right. But now I'm like, okay, now I need a lobotomy. I need you to take my brain out because that's the next wave of plastic surgery. First it was boob jobs. Now it's BBLs. Next everybody's going to be getting lobotomies. Little Kim did a performance at the BET awards this year. And there were so many memes about her body because they were like, she looks like a bug's life. She's had so much plastic surgery on her face. She looks crazy. They're just like being so mean. And I was like, you don't understand little Kim was a rapper in the nineties. Okay. And a brown scarily girl at that. I mean, if you think that colorism wasn't a thing, if you think

that like racism is isn't a thing, if you think sexism isn't a thing, it is. And that does take a toll on people's minds. So now fast forward, you know, 20 years later, she's still doing plastic surgery. Do you know how like ruined this person that she's trying to fix? She's trying to go back and like, okay, well, if I, if I fix this, then then they'll like me. Okay. And if I take that away, if I add that, oh, the doctor messed up. Now I got to go. It's a, it's a horrible mind game and you're a prisoner in your own body. Do you think she needs to see these memes? Do you think what you're saying is adding to the conversation? It's just mean. Like she's not my friend. But if she was having, there's so much work that I would have to be doing to make sure it's like, girl,

are you okay? Like, are you all right? It's literally another example of punishing someone for their own oppression. It's like you had to get the plastic surgery and then you went too far. It's like you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. Yes. Yeah. So we were talking about the lobotomies. I have, I just, I just have one more question. Plastic surgery is obviously only getting more common, only getting more automated. What do you think will be like the future of plastic surgery? Do you think that it would be possible to disband this cult entirely one day when people just like renounce it? I really just don't have faith. Yeah. It's just going to get worse and worse. And even though we see that people are, it's hurting them. It's, it's like

taking them away from their families. They're dying. They're like, I just need more. I saw that there's like threading. Like you can thread your boobs so that it lifts them. What? They're like putting these, what do you call it? Like it's, it's like, um, like threading your eyebrows? No. No. It's kind of like when you, it's the threading that they put under your face. Yes. Right. Where they like, yes. Like when you do it, they do it to your boobs so that you like get a lift and then they swell. So they look a little bit, they're trying to find anything and everything. They're like, what can we do to fuck up women's bodies? What can we do? I feel like with social media, since like now super duper rich people, like they're telling their kids not to be on social

media. You know how like before having technology was something for like rich people. And now that it's so accessible with like iPads and stuff, it's like, that's how people take care of their kids. They put an iPad in front of them and they're like, I'm busy. You entertain yourself. So now rich people are going back to in person care for their children. And it's kind of like gone in the circle. Do you think that like once plastic surgery is so accessible by the masses, it'll go backwards kind of like the BBLs removing the plastic surgery? I could see that. And then once everyone has gotten it, then they're like, actually being natural is like in there was this kind of war. Like if you have a natural body, they're shaming you for your, your God given body. If you don't

have the money to like fix it or enhance it. And so they're like, well, I'm better because I was, I was born this way. And it's just like, why are we having these conversations at all? Yeah. It's kind of, isn't there something else to focus on? Like, isn't your friend having a baby? Like, don't you have debt? Like, why are we focusing on somebody else's treatment or buy? Like, I don't want to do that anymore. It's just, I know that I want to, I know that I want to get money and I want to be happy and I just want to put out really good material for people to laugh and feel good. But I really just want to do the internal work for myself so that I'm not chasing these trends. I was looking online and I really was like, damn, my eyes are like drooping. Do I need to get that

little eye lifting? And it's like, girl, you could go blind. Then what? Oh my God. Then you're going to be the hot, blind comedian, which is actually, it might be to move. No. That makes me different. I think as long as it is profitable for women to feel terrible about themselves, plastic surgery will thrive. But I like the idea of the really, really rich suddenly making it prestigious not to have plastic surgery, then like some other industry will have to come in and take its place. But I completely agree with you that when I am off Instagram, when I delete it and I'm not looking at myself or at least the uncanny portrayal of myself on social media, when I'm writing, doing the thing I love offline, I feel better so fast. Oh my gosh. I feel that way

even when I don't look at my reflection. I'm working on a sketch about being a woman and seeing your reflection in a mirror and gagging every time you look in the mirror. And it's funny because sometimes I'll leave the house without even looking at myself and I'm like, I am so hot. And then I go to a happy hour and I'm like, I'm the hottest girl here. And then I go to the bathroom once I'm tipsy and I look at myself. I'm like, what the fuck have I been on? Oh, when I was 24, me and my friend, we get fucked up. I mean, I'm talking about like vodka crans and everything. And, you know, we were doing drugs and we would go up to these, uh, the clubs. We wouldn't know the doorman. And we're like, we're hot and skinny. And we have, and my friend had

titties. She's like, and I have titties. Let us in. And we would just say shit like that. And we would laugh so hard. They wouldn't let us in. But we, we felt we were so full of ourselves and it was such a good time. We were allowed. You couldn't tell us shit. Like we would have like Coke boogers and everything. It was like, yo, we are killing this town right now. And I could never do that now. One, cause I'm sober, but it's also like I'm constantly nitpicking at every little thing about me. Yeah. Every little thing. Yeah. You're conditioned to like look at yourself or look at your pictures. Like my mom always is like, one, like if I ever go on vacation with my parents, they're like done taking pictures of me on vacation because they're like

you're never happy. No matter what we take, I put that on, I put that on TikTok. I was just, I did a video like, how are you getting your significant other to take these fucking photos of you and not hate you afterwards or getting to a huge fight with them? Yeah. Like they're definitely getting into fights. They have to. Can we play our little game? Yeah. So the game is called What's Kultier and we're going to list different pairings having to do with plastic surgery scenarios and you're going to have to say which of the two scenarios you think is Kultier. Okay. Plastic surgery edition. What is Kultier? Boob jobs or nose jobs? You'd be surprised. Nose jobs low key. Lots of people have nose jobs. They just don't talk about

it because there's this thing about, oh, it's self hate or like you're trying to erase your like ethnic features. So a lot of people don't talk about their nose jobs because, you know, if you're if you're black or if you're Jewish or something like that, it goes back to like, do you not like how these people look? Yeah. But tons of I'm like look online. It's, it is every so many people have nose jobs. That's why Khloe Kardashian didn't want to talk about it. Yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah. Her latest one just came out saying that she has a nose job. Round number two. What's Kultier? Plastic surgery edition, liposuction or lip injections? Lip injections. Because they're so common, you think? It's just like,

y'all don't see what's what's what it looked like. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. I think like a little, like if you, you know, you want a little fullness, that's one thing. I feel like with lip injections, it's like a lot of the times when I see girls get it, they keep getting it. Yeah, it's not big enough. You have to. You like once it's just like when you get fillers or Botox and stuff, you like it dissolves, it wears off, you got to go back. The lip injections thing feels similar to the nose job thing where it's like we're picking and choosing like what ethnic traits we want. Like we're Frankensteining a new face and a new body based on like whatever is trendy, which like it's fucked up for an ethnicity to be trendy. But like that's what we're doing.

And that's the culty part of it. It is. It is culty in it. And it's also, oh, lip injections is the same type of girls that love coffee. It's like they can't be without it. Like, oh, I need this. If I don't have that, this is my personality. Yeah. And soon as they get them, it's like they all hang out with each other. Yeah, that's so true. Okay. What is more culty? Fox eye surgery or Brazilian butt lifts? BBLs? BBLs. That's what everybody is working towards. I mean, the fact that you think you could go get a BBL for $3,000, $4,000. Psychotic. You're letting someone stick you and put things out, take things out, put them, rearrange them for $3,000. Yeah. I think to me, the scariest part about BBLs is that

they're like your ass. So it's like what you sit on all day. How do you fly back? You can't sit. You can't sit. I've watched so many videos. Now girls are making pamphlets. They're doing these like, oh, this is the BBL MLM. Yeah. There's like, there's a BBL routine. It's a whole community society and it's very much a cult. Yeah. Because it's like you can't now move forward in the world if you don't have hips and a really small waist. Okay, next round. What is cultier? The over the top early 2000s plastic surgery reality show, The Swan, which for those listening who don't know, it was literally like a competition show to win plastic surgery procedures, like turning from an ugly duckling into a swan. Yeah. So what is cultier? The Swan or today's subtle social

media filters that everybody uses? I'm gonna say the filters because I know so many people who are like, you can't post that photo. Give that photo to me. I'm gonna fix it and then you could post. Like that if you go to certain events, there's literally people face tuning the picture to post it. Yeah. And they're going out and open. They don't care. So and it's just, it's the thing. Everybody is putting a filter and fixing things and making their eyes wider and brighter and whitening their teeth. They're doing all these things so that like, you know, that's the photo that people are going to like. Yeah. Yeah. What is cultier? Celebrities denying that they've had plastic surgery or influencers getting paid to endorse certain procedures?

Influencers getting paid to endorse. I agree because it's like MLMs actually. Because it's like if they're endorsing it, then they have people do it and then they endorse it. Yeah. I think of it as like a pyramid scheme of your own self justification that unfortunately happens to involve people who follow you online. Yeah. And then their followers, they don't know. They're like, yeah, but some of them do know. They're like, this person is literally getting paid. That means that they probably wouldn't have got it if they weren't getting paid to do it. Last, what's cultier? What do you think is cultier? Casual Botox parties or plastic surgery tourism. That's what you were talking about when people will like fly down to Mexico and stay at

like an all-inclusive resort to recover post-op in paradise. I think they're, I don't know. I feel like they're even because this is happening on both ends at crazy rates. And you know, if we're having a party just doing Botox, like all the real housewives, they do that. Like it's like selling sunset. They're like giving Botox at like an open house. It's wild. It's wild. Like nobody. Oh my god. Nobody sit backs and says, you know what, maybe we shouldn't put this on TV. I was rewatching season one of selling sunset the other day and some of those faces don't look anything like they do now. Just the plastic surgery. You get more money. You get more notoriety. I remember, you know, early 2000s, the shittier somebody looked when paparazzi, the more the photo was sell. Yeah.

So it's like, yeah. Now people can't even be caught on guard looking like shit. Sydney, thank you so much for coming on the show and talking about the cult of plastic surgery. If people want to keep up with you and your work in this terrible social media universe, where can they do that? Yeah, give me on Instagram. Just did BW or Twitter. Just Sid, NYC and that's S-Y-D. Yeah, that's where I try to be as fun and free. But also I'll just be like, I'm not getting on here for a week. So yeah, yeah, I noticed that I follow you. Yeah, you got you got to have you got to have some time for yourself. And but when she's on, when I'm on, straight to camp, having a mental breakdown, you're going to love it. So out of our three

cult categories, live your life, watch your back and get the fuck out. What category do you think plastic surgery falls into? I think it's between a live your life and a watch your back. It's kind of like the spectrum of sexuality, but the spectrum is live your life and watch your back. There was like some Apple podcast reviewer who said that it was homophobic that we keep making this joke about bisexuality. I love that someone reviewed our podcast to stars because we said everyone is bisexual and they were like, no, clearly a joke. A joke. It was a joke, but was it? I'm just kidding. It was clearly a joke. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think it's a, I think for me, it's a live your life. I think I think it's okay. Actually, I have strict criteria. Okay. I think

it's a live your life at two surgeries or two procedures. All right. Once you get to the third procedure, I think it's a watch your back. Okay. Well, considering that, then I would say the overarching analysis of plastic surgery would have to be a watch your back by default because you can't control whether someone is getting one or two or 10. For me personally, like if, if there was not like the life threatening element, and I'm not just talking about life threatening, going under the knife and getting surgery. I'm talking about life threatening when teenagers feel such unbelievable pressure to meet a certain beauty standard that their own young life is mentally at risk. You know what I mean? Yeah. If there weren't that element,

I would completely say it's a live your life, do whatever you want to do to your body, but I think the stakes are higher than that. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a watch your back, I would say. Well, that's, that's, that's it folks. Watch your back if you want to get a boob job. And this is just another cult that I'm in. Yeah. Yeah, totally. It keeps happening. It keeps happening. All right. That's our show. That's our show. Thanks for listening, you guys. Stay tuned for more bonus episodes. Thank you so much for subscribing. Yeah, just wanted to give you guys a thank you. And remember, stay culty, but not too culty. Yeah. Sounds like a cult is created, hosted and produced by Amanda Montell and Esa Medina.

Kate Elizabeth is our editor. Our podcast studio is all things comedy and our theme music is by Casey Colb. Thank you to our intern slash production assistant, Naomi Griffin. Subscribe to sounds like a cult wherever you get your podcasts. So you never miss an episode. And if you like our show, feel free to give us a rating and review on Spotify or Apple podcasts and check us out on Patreon at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult.