Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Rae Dunn

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

Catch Sounds Like A Cult host Amanda and this week's guest host Griff on tour together in NYC! Tickets here, discount code: CULT MAGIC Get ready to live, laugh, love, and possibly get into an “aisle fight” over this longgggg overdue episode, featuring the iconic Griff Stark-Ennis from the Petty Crimes podcast! In what may just be our *pettiest* episode ever, Griff joins Amanda to discuss the cultish fanaticism surrounding the pottery brand, Rae Dunn. You know those farmhouse-style mugs and platters found at TJ Maxx and Home Goods, featuring cutesy “handwritten” sayings, like “Squeeze the day” and “Bah humbug?” To a certain breed of consumer, Rae Dunn has animorphed into not just a quaint kitchenware brand but a full-blown lifestyle worth making major sacrifices for. In other words, a cult!!! Unsure how the hell that’s possible? Tune in to find out… and don’t miss your chance to see Amanda, Griff, and his fellow host Ceara live on tour together this April! Tickets to events in Los Angeles, Brooklyn, Boston, Philly, and Boston are below :) April 9: Los Angeles, CA — feat. Pauline Chalamet (tickets here) April 12: Brooklyn, NY — EXCLUSIVE VARIETY SHOW feat. Ceara & Griff from Petty Crimes (tickets here) Use code CULTMAGIC for a 10% discount!! April 13: Boston, MA — EXCLUSIVE VARIETY SHOW feat. Meredith Goldstein & Sasha Sagan (tickets here) April 16: Philadelphia, PA — EXCLUSIVE VARIETY SHOW feat. Kelsey McKinney from Normal Gossip (tickets here) May 1: Atlanta, GA — Wild Heaven – West End with A Cappella Books (tickets here) Thank you to our sponsors <333 Head to FACTORMEALS.com/CULT50 and use code CULT50 to get 50% off.  Shop SKIMS Bras at SKIMS.com. After you place your order, select "podcast" in the survey and select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. Visit BetterHelp.com/CULT today to get 10% off your first month.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Learn to make time for what makes you happy with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash cult today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, h-e-l-p dot com slash cult. Factors delicious, ready to eat meals, make eating better every day easy. Head to factor meals dot com slash cult 50 and use code cult 50 to get 50% off. That's code cult50 at factormeals.com slash cult50 to get 50% off. Thank you so much to Skims for sponsoring this episode of Sounds Like a Cult. Shop Skims bras at skims.com,

now available in 62 sizes from 30A to 46H. Plus get free shipping on orders over $75. If you haven't yet, be sure to let them know I sent you. After you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select my show in the dropdown menu that follows. The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations.

The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern-day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montell, author of the books Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, and The Age of Magical Overthinking. Every week on the show, you're going to hear about a different group or guru that puts the cult in culture, from momfluencers to Elon Musk stans, to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really?

And if so, is it a live-your-life, a watch your back, or a get the fuck out level cult? After all, the word cult, it's up to interpretation. It's my personal belief that in 21st century America, in 2024 especially, you can slip and fall into a cult from the comfort of your living room couch, whether it's an internet forum full of conspiracy theorists, or a group of celebrity stans that just gets a little too intense, or a Facebook group full of suburban mothers who have devoted their life to collecting and reselling and scouring for a certain brand

of pottery. Today, I am so fucking pumped to be discussing a much anticipated, highly requested topic, the cult-followed ceramics brand that is Ray Dunn. If you are familiar with this brand, you are probably already chortling. If you're not familiar, honey, you are in for a romp through this silly, ridiculous, sometimes kind of scary, and you might even say petty, world of Ray Dunn cult followers. Joining me today as my special guest

is one of two absolutely iconic co-hosts of the Petty Crimes Podcast. I know I have some petty crimes listeners here. I am so excited to welcome Griff Stark-Ennis, who is here to discuss the Cult of Raid on with me. This conversation was absolutely fucking hilarious. And if you enjoy it, Griff and his co-host Kira, they both do petty crimes together,

are actually joining me as my special guest on this live tour that I'm doing in April that I would love to invite you to. If you live in or around New York, Boston, or Philly, you simply have to come to this extravaganza where we're gonna celebrate my new book, but this is not your mother's book tour as they say. There's gonna be drag performances

and cute little drinks and merch and petty culty pop culture gossip way too spicy to end up permanently anywhere on the internet. So very exclusive to this live tour. Kelsey McKinney from Normal Gossip is joining me for the Philly show. Kira and Griff are joining me for New York. The Boston party is also going to be lit-y tit-y. And you can get tickets to come

celebrate with me at the link in our show notes. So please do that. And actually, just for you listeners, if you're interested in coming to the New York show on April 12th, I have a promo code for you. You can find all these ticket links in our show notes or in our Instagram bio at sounds like a cold pot or on sounds like a cult.com. And for the New York show, when you check out, enter the code cultmagic, no spaces, for 10% off your ticket, which also includes a copy of my new book, The Age of Magical Overthinking and the price. This show, it's going to be so much fun. You do not want to miss it. I literally could not recommend it more. And I have a feeling that after you finish listening to this episode, you might want to join

us because Griff is beyond delightful and we have the most amazing chemistry, dare I say. So without further ado, let's get right on into it. The Cult of Ray Dunn with Griff, Stark Ennis of Petty Crops. Griff, hello, hello, hello. Welcome to Sounds Like a Cult. Hello. Thanks for having me on your little cult. Oh my God. So could you tell our listeners about you and your show and your cult?

Yes, of course. We do have a little cult on our hands, which is so funny to be actively growing. Are we cult leaders? We are cult leaders. So my name is Griff, Griff Stark-Ennis. I am an actor, podcaster now, it kind of snuck up on me. And together with my best friend, Kira O'Sullivan, a lot of you might know her from TikTok, Kira Jane.

She's currently based in New York City as a Saturday Night Live writer. So she's quite funny. But together we have a podcast called Petty Crimes, which is a true crime comedy podcast that exclusively investigates non-crimes. So really like petty bullshit life stories that our listeners send us. And then she and I alternate and we take turns presenting each case. And then the other serves as judge and jury. It's comedy, it's lighthearted, it's fun. We don't shy away from human discussions,

but it is petty by nature. It's in the name. So much alignment because we're like a cult podcast that doesn't really talk about cults and you're a crime podcast that doesn't really talk about crimes. And also this show is just like a lighthearted show where we're poking fun at fanaticism and everyday culture. So how do you personally define the word cult though? Okay, I've not been in the cults that maybe your show avoids. There's no Manson in my life. So glad to hear that.

Yeah, I'm honestly glad to be able to say it. I guess I would view a cult as a group that has some kind of exclusivity. It doesn't need to be like completely barring people from joining, but there's something you need to like earn or do to get inside this group. And then it's obviously sets you apart from the mass. So it's unique with whatever its value proposition is. And I guess I would be curious to ask you, Amanda, do people in cults oftentimes know that they're in cults?

Well, no. I mean, again, it depends what context and connotation we're applying to this word. Like, you and I can joke, LOL, we're in the cult of LA, you're in the cult of actors, we're in the cult of podcasters. We can have like a Tee-hee-hee moment about that. But if you're talking about folks who are in the classic GTFO level cults that

are in like exposés and docuseries, like NXIVM's The Vow, et cetera. No, of course not. Nobody gets involved in a group that is later found to be like exploitative, manipulative, abusive on purpose. It's the same way that like nobody chooses to date a toxic partner. Like you don't think that person is toxic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Actually, no, now that you raise an eyebrow, there are probably some new age freaks out here in LA who are like, I want to join a damn club. Yes. Oh my God, very much. And things can evolve, which is a good point. Like maybe you start in a group and then as the non-leader, you don't realize how it's snowballing because you're not in control of it. So yeah, I guess you're right.

Like I've definitely participated in the acting cult, the podcast cult, but I used to work at Barry's Bootcamp, which would be a great- Boom! Cult. I know, I work at a private members only club here in Los Angeles, so I've got a toe in cults, I would say, but at the level that we enjoy talking about,

not at the scary, get the fuck out level. Exactly. No, you're totally in several cults that we would cover on this show. Not that they would cover on like those other cult shows that I also love. But they're dark. I like what you said about the self-deprecation, because I do actually think that the allure of cults is that sense of surrender. You know, like speaking of Barry's boot camp, I think probably a lot of what the hardcore Barry's people

like is that when they get in there, they're being screamed at what to do for like 50 minutes. And that feels probably like relief after working all day at your corporate job at CIA. Yeah, no, absolutely. Like, I guess one part of the attraction of cult is like, you sign up to get on this bus and you're a rider, you're not driving the bus. And so for so many areas of our lives, it's like exhausting just to keep that bus in the

lane kind of not crashing. And so there is a lot of reprieve and being in a space or in a group where you're kind of just along for the ride. But there's also a huge cost that that comes with, which is your life can snowball into something that you did not expect. Totally. And that is what this show is all about. It's about discussing when the groups that maybe don't look super dangerous might actually cross over into like, this is not so safe for you. And that's why I'm like already chuckling about today's subject, potentially

the pettiest subject we've ever covered. And that is why you're the perfect guest to join. Can't wait for your takes on this cult. We're talking about the cult of Ray Dunn. Had you had any type of exposure to this cult before I was like, we're doing this? I don't think I knew what this cult was called, but I've definitely seen the products of this cult now that I've done some research.

Like the products have been around, home stores, obviously you'll spill the tea on what it is, but like I think I was more familiar with it than I thought I would be. Oh my god, that's like how like really hardcore cults do have products that like infiltrate into everyday life. Like, you know that brand Yogi Tea? It's just a grocery store tea brand that is owned by a Kundalini yoga cult called the Healthy Happy Holy Organization, which you would never know. Cults are out here culting in the wild and the open. So today we're here to talk about the cult of Rae Dunn.

It is a home decor brand. It's so funny to talk about it in these like official terms of like, let's define Ray Dunn, because much to your point, you know it when you see it. It is a home decor brand that you can find at TJ Maxx or Home Goods that sells mostly pottery as well as little bits and bobs for around the house. It's been around since the early 2000s.

How would you describe the aesthetic of Ray Don off the top? I would describe, it's like whimsical and feminine and reminder-y. Because some of the products are just like, in the very specific text are just like labels of what the items are. It'll be like coffee or salt. The font is very like thin and sleek.

It's very relatable. It's very down to earth and approachable. Exactly, exactly. That's a wonderful description. I would put it in the farmhouse category of decor. Ugh, I have thoughts. You don't know this and your listeners don't, but our listeners very

well know that I grew up on a farm. And so anything that appropriates farm aesthetic, especially in like cities or suburbs, I have thoughts on. I can't wait to hear more of those thoughts. You're like farm cosplay offensive. Get the fuck out. A lot of cults are farm cosplay. The Mansons, they were trying to pretend they were like picking their own crops. It's like, you don't have to do that. Yeah, aren't they like north of LA? Yeah, yes.

Like Midsommar, that is farm cosplay. You know what I'm saying? They're just in a field pretending that they need chickens. So silly. Okay, so Ray Don, you know this brand. They make everything from sugar bowls to mugs to piggy banks that say oink on them, reminder-y to Christmas figurines.

And yes, this aesthetic is recognizable as hell. It's cozy, it's off weight. They have little sayings printed on them that are printed in this very specific hand-drawn looking font, which I would sort of describe as like the older sister of Comic Sans. I love that. Sort of bridesmaid cursive meets Comic Sans in my opinion, you know?

Yeah, Kira and I actually, we went to college together and we both did this summer job called orientation leader and we had to make signs for each group of students that came in for orientation and, Manda, I realized that the way that I wrote my signs every week, just the way that I write big signs with big letters, is giving Ray Don. Because like the handwriting is neat but like it's a little squiggly. It's a little eccentric but not too much to scare you away. Yeah it's like quirky but suburban. This is why it's so popular. As quirky as suburban people can get. Whoa.

Whoa. They're like, I stand with the city people. I stand with rural. I do not stand with suburban. That is so true. Like suburbs to me are so, cause I grew up rural and then I'm obviously familiar with cities like Boston, New York, LA.

So when I go to the suburbs and that ties into Ray Don, the uniformity of everything freaks me out because at least in rural and city, you're getting a lot of diversity. But like going in like a cul de sac, I didn't even know what that was. So it was freaking out. Yes. Oh my God. Great point. The conformity, the cult of the suburbs.

So some might know this brand, Ray Dunn, as the live laugh love brand. It's like if you have a fucking Mason jar-esque container printed with live laugh love, or like a mug printed with cup of happy, or a plate that says I am enough, or you know, a salad bowl that says smile. And, spoil alert, the brand has developed this completely insane community of fans

and influencers and collectors and resellers to the point that it has legit taken over people's lives. So we're already getting into it, but does anything immediately strike you about Ray Dunn as culty? Oh, God. Well, I mean, I guess high level. It's the idea aesthetically that if you buy something, and I guess correct me if I'm wrong, because I do know that there might be some kind of unique pieces that Ray Dunners look for,

but I like my aesthetic to be a little unique. And so I guess the idea that you're getting a piece that potentially thousands of others also have, to me, high level is culty, because you look at it and you're like, this is mine, but a lot of other people have it, so I'm part of this group just from purchasing it. It's very interesting that you say that,

because something that I think is Kulti about Ray Don is this tension between conformity and exclusivity. There are collectors and resellers, and we'll get into it, people who wanna be the only one to be in possession of this salad bowl that says smile. But at the same time, yes, it's obviously not like super bespoke or individual. So that juxtaposition of conformist suburban and very exclusive I want to be the only one with this mug that basically looks like every other mug. Yeah, it's giving delusion. I'm curious too, like how Ray Dunn actually feels because like as an artist,

generally you start out with like one of a kind pieces and then once you find mass popularity, you're forced to kind of dilute kind of the wrong word, but like just spread your art very thin. She's getting a paycheck, I would assume, but the cost is that like your art is a lot more consumable for the masses. I didn't even know that Ray Dunn was a real person because it doesn't look like a real name, but she is. She is like the ceramicist that started it all, but she has very mixed feelings

about what's become of the brand. So Ray Dunn actually describes herself as quiet and shy and doesn't even like how rabid her followers have become. According to a Yahoo piece, she said herself, I never intended on becoming a brand much less creating this weird phenomenon. So she knows it's a cult and she feels odd about it. I know. And an artist starts with just doing the art, right? Because they love it. And so how it's scaled, it's cool to hear her talk about that. And I wonder how her experience has been

because does she like create her first mug thinking she'll start an empire with a cult following? I don't know. You'd have to ask her, but like it's evolved into something quite big. Yeah. It sounds like no. And it's interesting to think like if she's not really the cult leader, who is it?

So let's talk a little bit more about like the qualities of Ray Dunn products. So something that contributes to the exclusivity is that not unlike Trader Joe's that have these seasonal items that hardcore fans go fucking nuts for like pumpkin spice, everything. Ray Dunn also has these limited edition holiday collections that diehards freak the fuck out for for Halloween and Christmas. There have been a few times in my life when I've like popped into a home goods because I just needed like, I don't know, a little storage unit for my bathroom or whatever. And it even gets me like now that I know now that I've like eaten of the fruit of knowledge about Ray Dunn, when I see a Ray Dunn Halloween candy jar, part of me like wants it.

I mean, I've been stalking their Instagram in preparation for this, Ray Dunn specifically, and Ray Dunn Studio, shout them out. And same, I'm like the more that I look at it, and it's obviously packaged so nice on our Instagram, I'm feeling slightly compelled to get something as well. And so if I were at a TJ Maxx or Marshalls or Home Goods and I saw the brand now, because I do go there here and there, I'd at least be more likely to buy it. I can sense the cult in my life coming towards me. I know me too. The more that I roast something, the more that I think I actually want to be a part

of it. Yeah. But the Instagram, I'm glad you brought that up because it's a big element in the Ray Dunn world. Could you describe it? Because for me, in addition to the Ray Dunn website, they both feel like a little bit dated. Yeah, I have mad respect for what she's built and the people that like this stuff. It's just not my taste. So it's very like it's very homey. Yeah, super homey. I mean, the reason I say it's dated is it stuff, it's just not my taste. So it's very like, it's very homey. Yeah, super homey. I mean, the reason I say it's dated is it feels like it's from sort

of like a 2012 era when certainly people were not posting like pseudo authentic blurry photo dumps. People were posting like their brunch through the hipstamatic filter. And that's what this kind of feels like to me. And for that reason, there's a deep nostalgia. I feel like I'm looking at a time machine when I look at the Instagram. It has 373,000 followers. That's a lot, but I would expect it to be more. And I think if the brand were engaging in social media

in more of a contemporary way, perhaps there would be more, but that's not what it's about. I'm dying over this big ass mug that says have a royal day. There's a mug that says frie. There's a mug that says get it done. So it's very like faux-spirational. It's the live, laugh, love. And I do think the font plays a role because it almost feels like

a handwritten letter from your best friend or your mom telling you to like, keep your chin up, have a wonderful fry, yay. There's almost an intimacy and a coziness with the lettering and the messaging itself. Like it's not random that it like really speaks to people. Well, yeah, it's like, I'm not someone who needs that reminder, like I said, like I don't, the reminder-iness of it, like, and I know that it helps

to like write your, you know, manifest in like Oprah Oprah mirror, write sticky notes, blah, blah, blah. But like, I think it would annoy me to constantly be seeing those reminders to like be happy and be good. Because as much as I like that, I don't always want to try to be happy. Like it's important sometimes not to have a royal day, sometimes to have like a peasant day, you know? Right. I'm curious to like your point about like the aesthetic. Like I'm a millennial, I'm 31. If she's cultivating this Instagram, like how old is Rae done?

Right? Like my Instagram versus a 15 year old's looks dated and is probably not like the most current aesthetic. So to your point, it is nostalgic because I'm a proper millennial and this is kind of like how Instagram started. Still images, they go by like seasons of the year. You're absolutely right, because I think her core market is millennials, older millennials,

and this is what we want to see in a way. Like even if our aesthetic or our taste has updated a little bit, when we see an Instagram that looks like this, it makes us feel comforted. Rae Dunn herself is in her early 60s, allegedly. There is some mystery surrounding her birth year. She looks amazing.

Okay, so if you still, for some fucking reason, cannot picture Rae Dunn, I found an amazing vice quote that summed it up perfectly. It says, you likely know Rae Dunn, even if you don't think you do. Think of hashtag just Girly Things, the Hallmark channel and Christian Girl Autumn. It's one of many Pinterest ready elements under the Ciscor meets wine mom umbrella. Wow, I mean, whoever wrote that did it justice.

It does give Hallmark, like that's a really good cinematic reference or even like card reference. It's very Hallmarky. Yes, absolutely. And like, again, it's so bad, it's good. Like it feeds us like mashed potato comfort when we engage with Hallmark in the way that it does when we engage with Ray Dunn.

I love the wine mom thing. Like you can so see like some suburban like farmhouse mom putting her mommy juice in the Royal Day mug. And I feel that I need some mommy juice. This year has been a chaotic start. So it's like wherever you find your comforts, I don't want to shame you for that. Cause like we each find them differently. I don't live in the suburbs.

I just don't get it. It's not your culture. Okay. Let's think about whose culture this is though. What type of person does gravitate toward Ray Dunn? Heavily female, I would assume. Women who care about their home space and I think want to make it warm. And so the suburban aspect plays into that as well. I don't see a ton of like brown hands

holding mugs on this Instagram. So dare I say that it's very white? Astute. Astute. I would say that I am sensing, not to be sensationalist, but I am sensing that there might be a Venn diagram connecting Ray Dunn patrons with maybe like multi-level marketing. Like maybe they're the same people who like sold LuLaRoe 10 years ago. Oh my gosh. That was like a whole chapter I was asleep for, but I see the Venn diagram for sure.

Like especially knowing how they like consume it and well, I'm sure we'll talk about that, like how they like buy everything. And yes, yeah. So like I'm sensing suburban white woman who has a very warm and kind of soft aesthetic in their home space. It's like aggressively soft. Yes. Cookies. Yes. And I love the the mention that you made of like not wanting to shame anyone for the things that bring them comfort. We did an episode on the cult of Disney adults and people were ready to come for these Disney adults next.

We talk about like flat earthers, hardcore conspiracy theorists who like actually harm the world. No, they don't want to roast them. They want to fucking eviscerate the Disney adults. And here's where we have to be like pause. We are not here to like shame, make fun of in an actually mean way. We're here to sort of gently roast the ways that we seek belonging and meaning and connection in today's society. And we're here to find out if there's actually something sinister underneath things that look innocent.

And with Disney Adults, spoiler if you haven't listened to that episode, it's not that sinister, but we need to find out whether Ray Dunn is. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I think it's a very common feeling to experience a lot of restlessness, a lot of anxiety, especially surrounding how best to spend our time. There's a lot of panic, there's a lot of worry. I know I'm an expert freak-er-outer and that can make knowing how to spend your time meaningfully really difficult. I've found that therapy can really help me sort of postpone my freakouts as my therapist has often advised and slow down a bit to reprioritize. I know I've mentioned this before on the podcast,

but at the beginning of the pandemic when I wasn't able to access my regular therapist, I actually used BetterHelp to hide me over and that was really helpful. If you're thinking of giving therapy a try or are looking for a new therapist, consider BetterHelp. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Learn to make time for what makes you happy with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash cult today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash cult.

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I love it. Shop SkimsBras at skims.com. Now available in 62 sizes from 30A to 46H. Plus, get free shipping on orders over $75. If you haven't yet, be sure to let them know I sent you. After you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select my show in the dropdown menu that follows. Okay. So let's get into some of the cultier aspects. So this brand has been around since the early 2000s, but it's gotten cultier since around the

mid 2010s. And that's because since about 2016, a super zealous secondary market of Ray Dunn collectors, resellers and traders has emerged. These people are sometimes called Dunners or Dun Hunters. So they have a full title, a full name. Are there any subcultures in like the rural farm area where you grew up? I have to know, like, are there people like low-key like collecting and reselling exclusive farm equipment? The only thing that comes to mind is we were heavily John Deere oriented. Anything in that lime green, piss yellow

kind of color branding. Other farm stuff, Carhartt. That's been an interesting one to see take off in the cities because I grew up with it functionally, not for fashion. And I love that they're having their moment. Again, it's appropriating farm culture. How dare? Let me theorize for a hot second.

I think it's because on farms, you're doing shit from the crack of ass. Like the cow has got to get milked. The eggs have got to get collected. You don't need your sugar thing labeled because you're moving through sugar at a lightning pace. You know where the damn sugar is. I think there can be a sense of ennui in the suburbs.

And I think this is why the MLM industry really targets non-working suburban moms because you can start to sort of like lack a purpose or lack an identity, whereas on a farm, like you're too busy to yearn for identity. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot to do. It's interesting. Yeah. Cause the idea that one of these pieces could like feel like you're connected to something larger while your day to day is pretty like predictable and repetitive will we'll say, and also isolating. And so I'm like starting to like be more pro-Ray Dunn from this because it's

helpful to feel like you're part of something when you're physically might not be. That's so true. And I feel like even if you lived in a rural place, you would still be able to access the Ray Dunn community because a lot of Dunn hunters, as they're called, assemble in Facebook groups. There are hundreds of these groups and they all have these very specific rules for how you're supposed to engage with other members.

You have to be approved. Many of these groups are private. Some of these groups are titled things like Ray Dunn Attic's sale. Here's a pun for you. Done with Drama, things like Ray Dunn Attic's sale. Here's a pun for you. Done with drama, Long Island Ray Dunn or Ray Dunn Hudson Valley BST, no bullshit. So they each have like a very distinct vibe, you know?

They almost feel like Reddit forums because each one has like a specific register type of language that's probably used there. And if you're used to like one Ray Dunn group, you might not get the vibe in the next one. But the largest private Ray Dunn group is called Ray Dunn Dunn Buddies, Buy, Sell, Trade, Unicorn Emoji, Unicorn Emoji. At the time of this research document, the group had 39,000 members

and a whopping 1200 posts a day. A day? To be an admin of that group, can you imagine? So let me give you some specific examples from one of the rougher groups. It's called Raedun, Rants, and Raves. Okay. And the rules of this group outline that the purpose of it is to vent and maybe to throw some playful punches. According to the written rules of this group, the sort of 10 commandments of vent and maybe to throw some playful punches

according to the written rules of this group, the sort of 10 commandments of Rae Dunn, Rance and Raves, if you will. You can be yourself in here. So don't feel like you have to hold back. We cuss, argue, call each other out on bullshit, share screenshots and have a jolly fucking good time. There are over 13,000 members.

Oh my gosh, yeah. It's like, okay, we swear a little we're cool moms. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Some Dunhunters claim that they've met some of their dearest friends in these Facebook groups and that Ray Dunn gives them something to do and bond over. So that's what we were kind of talking about. Like it fills your time. It gives you some of that like social connective tissue. Momfluencers are also a demographic that have really embraced the brand because it's so cozy and it kind of makes you look like a good mom with a warm beautiful home like you were saying. And some fans have built

whole entire side hustles on becoming sort of unofficial spokespeople for the Ray Dunn aesthetic and for being in the know or having all the best product scoop and for reselling products. So there is a hierarchy, which, you know, cults often have. So I know you're curious to talk more about our girly Rae Dunn. Her skin looks amazing. There are a few photos of her on the social media online. What was your first impression of Ms. Rae Dunn herself?

Northern California, beachy, clean, beauty. Totally. I think she looks like straight out of Big Little Lies. That's so funny because I looked at where she's based and it looks like exactly where I said, and it does give that area of California, which seems so different than Los Angeles. I'm not native to California, so when I go up there, I'm like, oh, this is like a literal different country. But I mean, I think it makes sense for what she's putting out. She does have this aspirational sort of mother aesthetic, kind of like almost a more relatable brunette Gwyneth Paltrow energy. Oh, I wonder a more relatable brunette Gwyneth Paltrow. Yeah, I mean, they're doing something very similar, obviously, with different platforms.

It really helps for a cult leader, especially if you're a woman, to be hot. If you're a man, you don't really need to be, but if you're a woman, it does help to be hot. Teal Swan, Gwyneth herself, I would count her as a cult leader of sorts. What happens when you're a male cult leader that's also hot?

Is that just like too much? I think it's too much. I think at that point, you just go into politics. Yeah, well, I guess when you're not like someone who has a physical aesthetic that really hits people, then you need to be very convincing with either your product or like your words and your influence, because you know this, like pretty people in Los Angeles,

they're really great for what they do, but then you get them like on a date or over coffee and it's like, okay, this conversation is really hard. And it's because they're so used to people just gravitating towards them because they're beautiful. So I hear your point about cult leaders needing to be a little more relatable. I don't know. Yeah, well, that is true, too. And it depends what kind of cult you're aiming for, because if you're aiming

for like populist energy, you probably are going to want to look a little bit more relatable. And I think Ray Dunn is beautiful, but not too beautiful. And that really works for her position. So the thing is she did start on a smaller scale, but since 2003 Ray Dunn's creations have been mass manufactured by a larger company called Magenta. And Ray Dunn is now resold at places like Home Goods and TJ Maxx. Each piece is pretty affordable.

Most are under $20, but in a way that just makes them addictive to buy because you can get so much, you know? Like they're like chips. You can't just have one. At Home Goods and TJ Maxx, a mug might cost only $5. A whole set of goods might cost $20. Buying directly on magenta is more expensive, between $40 and $50 for, say, six mugs. These products are also resold on Amazon by independent sellers who call themselves small

businesses. So there are a lot of different ways to purchase Ray Dunn products. What is your home decor, like kitchenware aesthetic? How would you describe it? Well, that's a good question, because I currently am renting because poor. And so I can't wait to have a house and like make it my own one day and truly put my personality and aesthetic into it. Because you can only do so much with a rented place. But I would say it's kind of like minimalist meets.

Oh, my God, am I Ray Don? Like, what's happening? I'd say it's minimalist meets like cozy home, but like in a more slightly queerer. I definitely have like influences of brown artists and just brownness. It's not as like soft, I guess it's it's like, I hear myself describing my aesthetic being like, wait, should I go to TJ Maxx? But I would say it's like Southern California meets the farm that I grew on. So not Northern California. So that's the

difference. But I swear to God, like, Ray Dunn, like astrology, is impactful as a cult medium because it's generic enough that you can project whatever you need and want to see onto it, right? Yeah. That's why I think Ray Dunn might appeal to one of these like suburban moms who's looking for something to feel passionate about outside of her kids because she's maybe someone who in another era in the fifties might've been kind of like a nice church going Susie homemaker. But our society has become less traditional, less religious. And so in a way Ray Dunn has kind of replaced the community that you might have

once found at church with something like a little more secular and consumerist that translates to social media. So I want to read some more quotes from Vice describing Ray Dunn that actually came from workers at Marshall's and TJ Maxx and would witness Ray Dunn fans like come in and shop, right? So one of these employees told Vice, the first time I ever did an opening shift for Marshall's, I was told by my manager to watch out for the Ray Dunn women. And I was like, what's a Ray Dunn woman? They basically told me that it was this group of women who would go from store to store and buy out all the Ray Dun.

A former Ray Dunner herself said that she started a blog about Ray Dun as a spot to showcase my love for the East Coast. But over the last year, it's involved into a space to chronicle my self-love journey after separation. Through each post, you find me discovering myself a little more through my evolving style, my spiritual journey, and my writing. And this is a Ray Dunn blogger.

So clearly, this aesthetic is attributed to people who are trying to find themselves on potentially a spiritual level and share that journey with other people. I can sense that. The little quotes even, I know plenty of people, especially actors, right? Because we live such unpredictable lives

and what we're doing is there's a high probability we just won't be doing it for a long time. And so like the little reminders to keep going are sometimes all you have. And so that's why I started this episode. I was like, I don't wanna judge people for what motivates them. I just, I approach it differently. But if there was a time in my life where I needed

like a reminder to live, laugh, love, then you better believe I'll get a mug from Radon. I really wonder if any other cultures around the world like print, faux-spirational sayings on mugs. I can't say I ever see that. It feels very like Protestant capitalist in a way. Like it's akin to the needlepoint Bible verses that hang above the toilet in your grandma's bathroom. It's like we need to have these almost spiritual proverbs all around us to remind us of our values or to keep us going. We have some.

I mean, I actually recently did a mug clean out, so I only have my most aesthetic products at the moment. But I remember we used to have a mug that said a yawn is a silent scream for coffee. And it just like reeked of toxic productivity culture, you know. That's so funny. It is scary not to overanalyze it, except yes, actually, our mugs and what's printed on them say something about who we are and what we believe. Yeah, you asked what my aesthetic's like

and I guess tying in Ray Don, I guess I'd rather have a picture, I'm looking at a hand-drawn picture of my dad's maple syrup shack. That's in my room. And so instead of it saying, dream of home or remember where you came from. It's exemplified by way of art or a symbol

or a plant plant for instance, if I wanna feel in my bathroom fresh every morning, like I'll get a lovely plant. I just don't need the words like spat at me every time I go into my bathroom. So what you're saying is show not tell. Oh yeah, kind of. Which like cult leaders famously tell not show.

Oh, interesting. So let me ask you though, like literally why, why, why do you think this brand has become so cult followed? Because for me, it still doesn't make total sense. Like, is it the font? Is it the limited edition resale side of it? Like, what do you actually think fundamentally is happening here?

The first thing that pops into my mind is the ease of access to the cult. And so these products, I know people in Los Angeles or in the world, we're not collecting Hermes bags. This is a very easy price point entry level to buy into this cult. So like you had mentioned, a mug could be like $10,

depending on where you're getting it or if it's in a set. And so like all it takes is kind of one purchase to be a part of that group. And if that purchase is a very manageable $10, I think that buy into the cult is really smart because it allows more people to buy into it. And then I think maybe the second thing that pops to mind is like, is it working? Like I'm not going to stay somewhere at a job, a gym, at a whatever, at a social club. Like if I'm not feeling like it's giving me value, there are too many options to stay here.

I'm gonna go somewhere else. So like I think price point entry one, and then like this has to be affecting people positively for it to like have snowballed into this. So those are my two quick kind of thoughts on it. Yes, yes, I think you're right. It's like what is preventing people from leaving is a great line of questioning to pursue.

And it's like, is it just that compelling or are there exit costs? preventing people from leaving is a great line of questioning to pursue. And it's like, is it just that compelling or are there exit costs? Oh yeah. Hey, I'm Talia Lickstein. And I'm Jake Cornell. And we're the hosts of a new podcast in the Sick Bird family. Basic Training. Navigating social situations is hard.

Not for us, but apparently for everyone else. So we're here to help. Every week, people will call in and tell us about their fights, awkward situations, dating disasters, and ask what we would do to help solve their problems. The best part is we don't always agree. Check out Basic Training wherever you get your podcasts.

I wanna recommend a podcast to you, Coltease, that I know you will absolutely love. It's called Nobody Should Believe Me, hosted by Andrea Dunlop, whose name you might recognize because she was my special guest a few weeks ago on our episode on the cult of Munchausen by Proxy. Nobody Should Believe Me is a signal award winning investigative true crime podcast about Munchausen by Proxy. Andrea Dunlop is an author, she's brilliant, and the show looks at Munchausen by Proxy through the intimate lens of those who've lived it, along with some of the top experts in the world. It offers a very timely exploration with the case of Gypsy Rose Blanchard in the headlines. The New York Times called it a

rich and harrowing chronicle of the condition. And it has more than 5 million downloads to date. It's consistently on the Apple True Crime charts, as high as spot number eight. Hello, let's get it to number one. And all episodes of the first three seasons are out now to binge wherever you listen to podcasts. Andrea is a fantastic podcaster, a wonderful reporter, a genuinely good person, and a friend. So I can't think of a better podcast for you to listen to. Again, it's called Nobody Should Believe Me,

and you can find it on all major platforms. So I do want to get into some of the darker aspects of this call in an attempt to answer that question. So first of all, there is some sketchy financial scammery going on. This community is kind of MLME because of this resale market. These Dunhunters will show up at Home Goods or TJ Maxx first thing in the morning, buy up the best goods,

and then sell them in one of these Facebook groups for a huge markup, kind of like Lula Rowe livestream all stars. These people, more than Rae Dunn herself, are kind of like mini cult leaders because they gain a cult following for their ability to buy up and resell these wares. Are you scared? It is a little scary.

I actually, because I have a very, very good friend who used to work for TJX corporate. She was a buyer for them. And so I text her about this before we recorded because I know this is part of the story. And she had said something similar. These people were quite influential with actual stores and coming in and just cleaning out the supply. But I guess what they do with that supply is an example of how Ray Dunn didn't anticipate

the cult's being. Exactly, how could she have known? Scary. So get this, some sellers hold what they call waffles. This is their in-group term for raffles, which are actually not allowed by Facebook and Instagram. So sometimes sellers will use the waffle emoji as a secret code to alert their followers

that one is happening. There's a waffle emoji? I didn't even know that. That's amazing. Yeah, I know. I went and found it after learning of this and it's really cute. So this is how a waffle works.

A waffle starts with the seller announcing the number of items that they'll be selling, the number of tickets that they're selling, and the ticket price. For rare items, sellers can ask as much as $50 per waffle ticket, okay? Just a ticket. Buyers reserve their ticket numbers in the comments.

They'll say like, I'll take one or five and then the winners are announced. The fact that they have to buy tickets just to attend is insane to me. Wow. This is a Ray Dunn waffle, raffle, Facebook nightmare. Careful, that's called a waffle, let's be clear. So they have to buy a ticket

to even be in like the auction room? Yes. Wow. So Ray Dunn, gorgeous girly herself, is not a fan of these waffles. She told Yahoo News, "'It makes me really sad that people resell. "'I wish I could sell more of my handmade stuff.

"'But when I do it, I know that people resell. I wish I could sell more of my handmade stuff. But when I do it, I know that people are buying it and reselling it for hundreds of dollars more. And it really upsets me because I feel like I'm just being used. Yes. But like, again, it's kind of boo hoo small violin. Like I would assume she's living pretty well because of it. Yeah. No, she's crying all the way to the bank. Yeah, I get it. Here's who's actually suffered at the hands of this cult though. Uh oh. Some Ray Dunners have totally disconnected from reality and their former values.

Some women have gone into debt over their Ray Dun addictions. Your Tango quoted one lady who said she spent over 15 grand in six months and quote, it consumes my every thought. I even think of it when trying to fall asleep, nearly cost me my marriage. Oh girl. That's pretty intense. It's really intense and I feel like with any person

that goes into a rabbit hole like that, you're filling a void with something, right? Like it becomes addicted for a reason. It's scratching an itch that something in your actual life isn't scratching. And so I hate to hear it like 15K and six months on like mugs is lost on me a little, but like power sitting down with that person who has gone into debt, I'd be curious to like evaluate what their actual life looks like. And she says she has a husband like maybe he's just not doing it for her. Totally. I mean, I think again,, it's like suburban ennui has made this population of cult followers vulnerable.

Like not everybody would be susceptible to the cult of Raedon. It's the specific demographic, which is very interesting. I wish they had waffles in real life because it'd be so interesting to go into like a ballroom at a hotel and just see the demo of Raedon consumers. Yes. And have a follow-up episode and be like, now we see more of a completed painting here. So a couple more pretty disturbing quotes. Another Ray Dunn Hunter in Florida

who posts about the brand on TikTok said, "'My kids say, mom, you choose pottery over us. It's bad. It's bad.'" Right? Your kids are saying that? The kids are saying that. A different Ray Dunner said on the Where We Summer blog, "'I've seen people making up fake sob stories

"'to get pieces sent to them, "'tricking people, fighting, crying, complaining, "'humiliating others, people using natural "'or personal disasters to get pieces sent to them.' A moral. That's too much. That's too much. It's too much. First of all, I mean, the first person in Florida who's obviously like maybe ignoring

her kids because of pottery, kids tend to exaggerate and also you're living in Florida, so I have to take anything you do with a grain of salt. I don't picture Ray Dawn being in Florida, but like I guess it's I guess she's spread across the world. I mean, like anything like we all have our vices that distract us from the realities that we're living. And again, like I guess they can be okay and passable and just not really anything to be concerned about or whether or not this is detrimental to people's well-being. Exactly. Here's one last data point for you. Ray Dunn has provoked physical violence. It has been reported that physical fights have broken out over some of the most coveted Ray Dunn items.

Of course, it's like Black Friday, but it's like every day of the year. Exactly. So TJ Maxx employees have described Dunn hunters as, quote, vultures who will beat each other up over a $9 mug. Yeah. And that's where you have to be like, this isn't about the mug. This is about something that's going on in your life. Like my survival job up until hopefully this year has been working in restaurants here in Los Angeles because I'm an up and coming actor.

And I work at this private members club and we don't experience this that much at this place, but like anyone who's worked customer service, including these TJ Maxx employees, when you see two people or one person just overreacting to like, this is a diet coke, I asked for a coke or like this Ray Don mug, it's like, this isn't about the diet coke. This isn't about the mug. This is about something in your life that you're channeling through this random,

seemingly significant object. Yeah. I just always think of that Elle Woods quote from Legally Blonde where she's like, happy people don't shoot their husbands. Exactly. Endorphins. And happy people don't get in fights at TJ Maxx. Like, I got to draw the line. It's like something else. Totally. So I did read in the cut about a lady who got into one of these notorious aisle fights as they're called at Home Goods while trying to put a ceramic birdhouse in her cart. So this woman was pushed by another Dunhunter and had to get 63 stitches in her head. This is true. Oh no. While she was in the hospital, she was like, okay, I'm quitting

Ray Dunn forever. It's too much. But when Halloween came around and all of that irresistible limited edition stuff hit the shelves, she couldn't resist. She psychologically could not bring herself to defect from the cult of Ray Dunn. That is how powerful the culture of this community is and also capitalism. Like I'm laughing because these aisle fights are funny, but I do have to acknowledge that there is sort of, I think, an underlying sexism in sort of like poo-pooing the fanaticism surrounding this brand because hypebeasts beat each other up over sneakers all the time and it's just like accepted but when Ray Dunn hunters do it over pottery it's thought of as like psycho and I think there's some underlying sexism there you know. The new Mean Girls musical if you haven't seen it I liked it a

lot but there's like a whole part that was added to this movie adaptation that talks about that that talks about the fact that like men are encouraged to like battle it out and to fight and hopefully come to a conclusion after that but women aren't allowed to because it's not ladylike. Like we approach conflict the way that we should and not every woman needs to get along with every other woman. So that's a really good point. I mean, I'm laughing at it because it's like the situation's crazy. It's absurd. But like I hear the underlying sexism with it. I don't understand why they're fighting over that object or maybe I do understand, but

like if they want to fight, let them fight. Women should be allowed to start violent pottery based cults too. Oh, this is our like social clip. Okay, so here's the thing. The cult of Ray Dunn's days actually might be numbered. Like Beanie Babies, items were once thought to have so much value, but Ray Dunn's manufacturer, Magenta, has started flooding the market with items that some say are lower quality or off-brand. For example, they did do a partnership with Disney and some super fans are becoming disillusioned. Yep,

they're scaling it too much. And it's losing quality. The culture in America at large is also changing. So Ray Dunn like popped off extra during the pandemic when we were at home and we were feeling like unmoored and lost and also very confined. But we're not limited to our houses anymore like we were then. And also like inflation and just the fricking prices and economy have made spending on collecting these mugs feel a little bit more pointless than it used to. So due to those reasons, the cult of Ray Dunn actually might be not dying, but dampening a little. I can sense that.

And across the last few years, I've realized that the like average person in the world is really influenced by rhetoric, whether it's a politician saying that they will change their lives and they never do, whether it's a celebrity endorsing a brand, whatever. I've realized that the average person in this world doesn't double click into things. They just take, like what you said, the pamphlets, the promise of Ray Dunn's value, whatever. They take it at face value and they double down on it.

Absolutely. I don't consider myself average, but I definitely feel susceptible to certain marketing. Of course. Things that I really find important. I just don't find Beanie Babies or coffee mugs that important. 100%. No one's going to be skeptical of a piece of marketing language that they really want to believe.

You're just going to believe it because you want it to be true. Exactly. You know, talk about Celsius to me. That's a different story, honey. Well, I think too, it's also this like individualist competitive nature that exists in the United States or like the American sensibility. We see our individual homes as an extension of our body and we want to optimize that. Right. We want to be better than that home down the street. So I think like in a way, when you stock your cupboard full of Ray Dunn products, it's not that different

from like filling your body with supplements. It's a way of becoming the best one, you know? Yeah, I mean, that makes total sense, but it's also like the supplement that you're choosing then with Ray Dunn, if your goal is to be unique and to have the best space, it's like, but five other women will say, and your neighborhood have the same thing.

So like, and that's maybe that perpetuates the addiction because it's like, oh shit, she has that. So I gotta get something else. Very culty. Okay. So now we're going to play a little game before we get to our culty verdict. This is a classic sounds like a cult game.

It's called culty quotes. This is how it works. I'm going to read you a list of quotes, little proverbs, and you're gonna have to determine if each one is either a Ray Dunn quote, like printed on one of those products, or a quote from a Get the Fuck Out level cult leader from history

that we've covered on the show before. Oh shit, okay, got it. Okay. All right. The first quote is, the absence of something in our lives can stir powerful feelings and show us the way to wholeness. Cult leader or Ray Dunn? That's so funny.

That's like, I can see both worlds. I'm gonna say get the fuck out cult leader. This was a Rae Dunn quote directly from her website. What is she referring to? The absence of something? Deprivation? What is that? Well, I chose the latter because I was like, it's the antithesis of her wanting you to buy these products like. But she's very conflicted about her status in the market, it sounds like. Yeah. Okay. So that was a Ray Donner. Okay.

Next quote, when we smile, the world smiles with us. Okay. Ray Don or it has to be Ray Don. And if it's an actual person, consider me not part of that cult. That was Keith Renieri, the leader of Nexio. Oh my God, I'm so bad at this. No, this game is hard for a reason. Okay, two more quotes.

A happy life is not built upon the goal of perfection, but balance. I think I said that. It's so funny because these quotes are like hitting home for me. But like, again, I don't need that to be like printed in my space. I'm gonna say Ray Dunn.

Yes, that is a quote from a piece of Ray Dunn jewelry packaging. Oh, jewelry. Okay, she really has expanded into everything. Okay, last quote. Wandering deep into the unknown, far away from the familiar, brings me back to my youth.

Oh my God, that's literally me going home to the farm every time. Like, I am realizing I'm so susceptible to cults, it's not even funny, because that made me like emotional. In which case, I don't think Rae Dunn, she doesn't give like born in the wild, born in like the wilderness. I think she knows what she is

and her product speaks to that. So I'm gonna say get the fuck out cult leader. This is so fucking bananas. That quote is printed on a Ray Dunn serving plate. Wandering deep into the unknown. You're teasing me with this stuff. You're like exposing me right now. No, I mean like cult leader, cult followed brand,

tomato to fucking motto, you know? I think if I were to like be in a Ray Dunn woman's house or person's house and you know, it was everywhere. were to like be in a Ray Dunn woman's house or person's house, and you know, it was everywhere, all these quotes, like I would be for the quotes if they were presented to me and in the moment they made sense. But if I was like at your dining table in suburban Connecticut and you're putting this platter in front of me that is encouraging me to go get lost in the woods, I would look at it.

I'd look at the little devil dag and I'd be like, I'm not getting this. I totally agree. And I'm not getting this. I totally agree. And I also don't understand printing such a long quote on a serving platter because the serving platter is like filled with food. It's got a Caesar salad on it. Like you can't even read it. I know.

I guess if it's like a full platter, it's the message is lost. Maybe that's a quote. If your platter is full, you're not lost. The message is lost. Yes. It reminds me of like a tramp stamp that no one can see unless you like really do your digging. I know. And so maybe it's just meant for her as she's like plating the food on the platter. I think so. I think so. It's just a little message for you.

Okay. Now we've reached the point at the end of our Sounds Like a Cult episode, when I ask you the ultimate question, Griff, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out. Which do you think the cult of Ray Dunn falls into? I think the answer is obvious because it's quite literally printed in all of her products. I would say live your life. Live, laugh, love. Yeah. I think the dark stories you presented to me and to your listeners, like I hate to hear it. I hate to hear that you're 15K in a hole because

of mugs and jewelry, I guess. I don't love that you're ignoring your kids or maybe your husband's been replaced by Tupperware or whatever. But at the end of the day, and I think we started it like this, like these are whimsical items that I hope are giving people some kind of meaning that they're actually lacking in their lives.

And I guess the worst case that I heard was like a fight in the aisles of TJ Maxx. Someone got sent to the hospital with you said 36 stitches or something like, so if that's the worst, then I'm compelled to just be like, live your life. It seems really trivial. I don't understand it. It just doesn't seem that consequential to me. But for that reason, I think just go into the world and continue with being a Ray Dunner. I know my alarmist side wants to call it a watcher back, but only in the way that I think there's like a general con in the United States that suggests

consumerism of any kind will fill a spiritual void in you. And I think that is very present in this community. And I think that's a message that you should always be watching your back for. I like that. But that's not specific necessarily to Ray Don. I think if we're just looking through all of the data points then you're probably right.

It's a live your life. Okay, I'm gonna change my answer just quickly. I'm going to do live your life with the exponent of watch your back. Okay, because I have worked really hard, especially coming out to Los Angeles. I don't know if you can relate to this, but like I come from a very corporate background where it would be like twice a year, Amanda, this is what you're doing well. This is where you need to like your AFDs, your areas for development. Like there's no structure to what I'm doing out here,

or at least there wasn't one I started. So I've worked on just kind of finding value and meaning, even when it isn't specifically spoken or given to me. And so I want to borrow some of what your verdict was and just put it as a little exponent. Cause like walking through life, putting so much value into things that really don't matter or into things that really won't reciprocate,

just be mindful of that because you don't want to have a kitchen or a cupboard filled with Ray Don mugs and still be unhappy. And so if that's your equation, then you need to look at the equation and maybe solve it a little differently. Love that takeaway. Thank you so much for joining this episode of Sounds Like a Cult.

If people want to keep up with you and your thoughts and your cult leader antics, just kidding, where can they do that? You can go on Instagram. I'm on Instagram. It's my name, Griff Stark-Ennis. I highly recommend checking out our show. It is very similar kind of vibe and conversation to what we just did together. I had such a good time with you, Amanda.

But we're on Instagram, Petty Crimes Pod. And then obviously Petty Crimes is our show. You can get that wherever you listen to your podcasts. And then check out Kira's work too. Kira is a writer at SNL. So she is presently and has been for a while churning out some really funny shit. She's really smart and talented and we're great partners.

So you've got a few places you can check us out. And then if you like to see my OnlyFans, I can send you the link. Slay. Well, that's our show. Thanks so much for listening. Stick around for a new Cult next week, but in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult is hosted and produced by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore

of the PodCabin. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. This episode was made with production help from Katie Epperson. Our intern is Reese Oliver. Thank you as well to our partner, All Things Comedy. And if you like the show, please feel free to check out my books, Word Slut, A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language, Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, and the forthcoming, The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality.

If you're a fan of Sounds Like a Cult, I would really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. Come and join me for the cultiest event of the season. Oh hey! It sounds like a cult host Amanda here to invite you this April to New York, Boston, and Philly where I'm putting on a culty variety show that you are not gonna wanna miss. This show, Cult Gathering Extravaganza, features guest appearances from the cult-followed podcasters behind Normal Gossip, crimes, love letters,

and strange customs, plus drag burlesque performances, a musical guest, exclusive merch, a meet and greet, and more! And this just in, for the New York event, use the code CULTMAGIC, no spaces, at checkout for 10% off your ticket. A copy of my new book is also included in the price. It's going to be a hootenanny. Recruit your friends. Ticket links can be found at the link in our Instagram bio at Sounds Like a Cult Pod or on our website, soundslikeacult.com.