Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Reborn Dolls

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

BOO! ‘tis the spookiest time of the year, dear culties, and this year we’ve whipped out our cauldrons to cook you an up episode on one of the scariest topics we could think of… complex emotions?! That is only half a joke, because this week Reese is equally embarrassed and excited to bring Amanda into the weird and wacky world of reborn dolls with the help of Corrine Vien and Sabrina Deana-Roga from Two Girls One Ghost. The "Reborners" community serves a wide range of acolytes, from grieving parents seeking therapeutic tools to fantasy lovers looking to adopt the most finely crafted infant abominable snowmen money can buy (no judgement!). This week, we’re sitting down to investigate exactly why people make, buy, and most cultily, wholeheartedly OBSESS over these fantastical silicone babies. No matter if you’ve been a loyal Britton Rose follower for years, or have never heard the words "reborn doll" in your life, this mystical Halloween-flavored episode of Sounds Like A Cult is full of tricks and treats just for you ;) Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod @reesaronii @chelseaxcharles @amanda_montell  Subscribe to the new season of Sounds Like A Cult on YouTube! To order Amanda's new book, The Age of Magical Overthinking: Notes on Modern Irrationality, click here. To subscribe to Amanda's new Magical Overthinkers podcast, click here :) Thank you to our sponsors!  Head to Squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, go to https://www.squarespace.com/CULT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Earn points by paying rent right now when you go to joinbilt.com/CULT. Go to stopscooping.com/SLAC and enter promocode SLAC to save an EXTRA $50 on any Litter-Robot bundle.   Get 20% off your first order of Liquid I.V. when you go to LiquidIV.com and use code CULT at checkout Further reading: Effect of Doll Therapy in Behavioral and Psychological Symptoms of Dementia: A Systematic Review Inside the hyper-realistic world of baby doll collecting

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Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to https://www.squarespace.com slash cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Thank you to our sponsor Liquid IV. Support everyday wellness with Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to liquidiv.com and use code cult at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop better hydration today using promo code cult at liquidiv.com. Earn points by paying rent right now

when you go to joinbuilt.com slash CULT. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash CULT. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Joinbuilt.com slash CULT to start earning points with your rent payments today. Litter robot by Whisker is the solution to all your litter box problems. Right now Whiskr is offering $75 off Litter robot bundles and as a special

offer to listeners you can get an additional $50 off when you go to StopScooping.com slash SLAC. That's an additional $50 off when you go to StopScooping.com slash SLAC. StopScooping.com slash SLAC. The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. I'm sure it's probably healing for people to have these dolls.

And I'm sure there are some meetup groups where they can all like bring their dolls and pretend that they are real children. I think when these people who are utilizing the reborn dolls interact with someone who's never heard of a reborn doll, has never seen one, can't identify it, and they go longer than like, I don't know, two or three minutes in conversation without identifying it as a doll, that also feels like it's getting into sort of like a cultish type territory This is sounds like a cult a show about the modern-day cults. We all follow I'm your host Amanda Montell author of the books cultish and the age of magical overthinking and I'm Reese Oliver

Sounds like a cults coordinator and today's co-host every week on our show We analyze a different fanatical group from the modern-day Zeitgeist, from Elon Musk's dance to ballet dancers. To try and answer the big question, this group sounds like a cult, but is it really? And if so, is it a live-your-life, a watch your back, or a get the fuck out level cult? After all, we are living through what I believe to be the cultiest era of all time, but not all culty groups are created equal. Some culty groups look totally normal, like certain corporate jobs or workout spaces, but could low-key ruin your life.

And then some fringy groups look creepy and weird, but are actually fairly harmless. Speaking of creepy, today we are releasing a special Halloween episode on a niche and fascinating subject that is sure to haunt your nightmares, the cult of reborn dolls. Never heard of it? Don't worry, you're about to find out. It is a fanatical, emotionally charged subculture surrounding uncannily lifelike, handmade baby dolls. Okay?

They are not toys. They are something so much more. They are the stuff of nightmares. But are they the stuff of cults? That's what we're here to find out. And we've got a full house full of creepy culty voices here to help us talk our way through it. First, we've got

Reese joining us. This episode topic was actually her idea, you spooky little thing. Hello! I try my hardest to be as spooky as I possibly can at all times. You succeed. You're wearing a guillotine necklace right now for the listeners. I am. I went to my senior prom as Marie Antoinette and I made a guillotine necklace for it. So I thought it fitting for the spooky occasion. Iconic behavior. We also have two more very special guests joining us to get their takes on this frightful subject. I am quivering in my booties to welcome the hosts of the most haunted podcast on the internet, Corinne and Sabrina from Two Girls, One Ghost. Hello. Hello. It's been long overdue, but we brought ourselves and we

brought all of the ghosts because we do tend to have a lot of hauntings happen around us. So what better time for us to join you here? Apologies in advance if anyone gets haunted after listening to this episode. Oh my god, I hope it's me. I am in my haunted house. My house is haunted. Oh, great. Okay. So it might not be our fault. It might be a collective. It's a group effort. Do you know by who? We call her Margaret.

We don't know who she actually is. We just thought she needed a name, but this house is like 130 years old and my mom grew up in it and creepy stuff's been happening the whole time. Sorry. For the East coasters, 130 year old house is very, very old in California. Yeah. It's not super terrible. Corinne's like, my house is 6,000 years old.

Sabrina and Corinne, could you please introduce yourself and your pod to the culties? Sabrina and I, we created Two Girls, One Ghost. We've been telling ghost stories officially online on a podcast for seven years, but we dive into all things that kind of fall within the paranormal umbrella. So we were brought together back in college by our love of the paranormal and Sabrina and I both grew up in haunted houses. So we bonded initially over that. Corinne's fun fact, we were both theater majors and Corinne's fun fact in the very first class

was I grew up in a haunted house and I whipped my head across the room and I just knew we would be friends. Yeah, you like grabbed my wrist and you were like, tell me everything. Do you see dead people? Me too. You know what else is haunting? That everyone on this call has spent some time as a theater major. I'm currently spending time as a theater major actually. I just want to know, Reese, how the fuck did you discover this topic of reborn dolls? I'm about to say something super embarrassing. I hope this is a safe space. Reddit.

Oh, that's not embarrassing. Reddit is the place for creepy things. It's almost like dangerously creepy. And next thing you know, you're like learning about something like reborn dolls and there you go. Yeah, well, I'm a part of a lot of like, cringe and snark communities. And then from there, the Reborn Doll cringe subreddit got recommended to me a bunch, which we will speak about later in length. And I have been equal parts fascinated and horrified ever since. It came up so spookily quickly when we were

brainstorming Halloween themed episodes. I was like, I don't know. The cult of slasher movies feels a little on the nose, a little boring. I was like, what can we do that's like girly and quaint and Halloweeny? And Reese was too quickly like reborn dolls. I was like, relax. You freak. This was also our first meeting like as employer and employee and I was like, no, let's talk about these

mounted silicone dolls. It's fun to work. It sounds like a goal. It is a safe space. Reese, kick it to the ladies, because I know there's something you want to know. So my question is, what is your take on dolls generally? Obviously dolls are something that have a ton

of super creepy connotations, but are also weirdly childlike. When you hear doll, what comes to mind as the spooky gals you are? My mother's basement. Do say more. My mom like weirdly has a collection of dolls, not in the like all her shelves are full of them but like if you go in my mom's basement she just has so many creepy dolls. I've like made a video of all of them and she has all their names and it's weird.

I also I have a respect for dolls. It's a very complicated relationship because it's like as podcasters, we've done a lot of stories of haunted dolls. And whether you believe in the paranormal or not, if you open yourself up to hear those stories and you believe that perhaps a lost spirit is inhabiting or living in those dolls, it does make you feel sad. And you understand why they would be drawn to that type of object because it makes them feel human-like. That's a generous take.

Although I think we've heard so many stories of haunted dolls in our time of doing our podcast that as soon as I hear the word doll, I still immediately go to like, this is creepy. This thing is alive. This thing is going to kill me with a slasher knife in my sleep. But I feel like part of us has tried to be a little more empathetic or sympathetic towards dolls because we were told by a listener that we do have a few loyal doll listeners. And the dolls are offended. The dolls are like, what the fuck are you saying about us? So my question for you two is, have you heard of Reborn dolls? I have because, Reese, I think where you exist on Reddit is where I exist on TikTok. And so I've

definitely been on the Reborn doll trajectory on TikTok and like have watched women bring them on planes and take them around Target shopping. And so I have opinions. I've definitely seen them a bit on the internet, but I've never encountered one in real life. Are there baby like dolls? I mean, okay. I don't know anything. We're gonna learn.

Well, since you asked. So essentially, Reborn dolls are hyper realistic baby dolls. They're usually made of a combination of silicone, cloth, vinyl. They began as an offshoot of regular doll making and collecting around the 90s. And obviously, the big draw for a lot of people was just how lifelike these things are, which, Corinne, you know you've seen them, these things are pretty terrifying. They're pretty realistic. They're so realistic that police have often been called to rescue babies in cars and then the police get there and it's a doll. So that's fun. Love that. I would be so upset at that waste of my time.

Right. Great use of our resources. Although I will say, I'm glad people are calling, you know, whether you know for certain it's a child or not, I'm glad people are making the effort to call if they see a kid left alone in a car. So true. If you see something, say something. You know, speaking of saying something, now that you mention it, I have seen a Reborn Doll in real life because theater kid stuff, one of my best friend's husband is a filmmaker and needed a baby, or a fake fake baby for a film shoot. And so they had this reborn doll that was so terrifyingly lifelike,

just strewn about their house for months on end. So when anyone would come over, I mean, they got desensitized to it. Oh, the pranks I would pull, the pranks I would pull. Yeah, no, I couldn't look at it in the eye. I just think I have so many narratives of dolls turning into haunted objects that all I can think about is having this doll strewn about your home as you put it, Amanda, and all of a sudden you

just start hearing baby cries in the middle of the night. I feel like that's the natural progression, at least in my spooky mind. Without question. It feels the most realistic for us. For us. In our perspective, what we've seen other people go through, we're like, the next logical step is a demon mimics a child's cry and tries to lure you into the basement. This is like the occupational hazard where like the moment any somewhat edgy ideas introduced

into your life, you're like immediately ghost. And for me, it's immediately cold. Immediately cold. Yeah. So, Reese, get us into a little bit of the history, if you would. Okay. The first Reborn doll was offered on eBay in 2002, which now if you search Reborn doll on eBay, you will get over 21,000 results. And that's just eBay. They're sold everywhere. The biggest retailer that I've been able to discern is reborns.com, which is truly such

a flash from the past of a website. Just the interface itself is a little bit scary. It's giving GeoCities, it's giving Heaven's Gate website. It's giving one Intro to Coding class in a dream and we love it. But yeah, these dolls super quickly gained popularity with grieving mothers of infants that had passed. There are a lot of groups who find these dolls really therapeutic, which we're going to get into. Which is really ironic because I feel like these things make me need therapy. But again,

that's neither here nor there. Nowadays, Reborning is a super popular hobby. There's organizations, there's conventions, there's books, there's all the good stuff that cults create dedicated to these reborn dolls. The dolls themselves are also increasingly diverse, which people also learn about. They have grown beyond the realm of human, if you will. These dolls can be... Sometimes they're a little more manufactured, sometimes they're made meticulously from scratch. You can customize them. You can buy kits to try to assemble your own, which is a weird Frankenstein moment. I feel like I could do that.

Yeah, wait, why does this intrigue me? I feel like I would never purchase one of these dolls. I almost called it an uncanny doll because that's what it feels like. But I would never purchase one of these. But knowing that there's a kit, part of me suddenly is like well maybe I'll DIY yeah that's the one part of it so far that I can't I'm like not sure I can get behind yet yeah well you know crafters love to push their limits you know it's like I've already cross-stitched everything on the earth now it's time to assemble an uncanny therapy infant. Well, in assembling the doll, I feel like reminds you that it is a doll, but I do feel like a lot of the people who have started collecting these dolls forget that they're dolls and don't treat them as dolls. So I like bringing people kind

of back to the reality of like, this is your Lego set, right? Like this is not your living child. Yeah. Like you built this. I also feel like building it feels super high stakes, especially when there are people who have like dedicated their whole lives to doing it perfectly. Because if you mess it up, that's like a tiny human face you're messing up. That's probably gonna look so terrifying. Like I would be so scared to mess it up. Well okay, well now that brings up a question. How much like of the DIYing is it? Because at first I was picturing like what's his name,

Andy's neighbor in Toy Story who like assembles and re- Oh yeah, with a little boot. It can get there. So I think it's kind of a choose your own adventure. Okay, because I was not picturing like, you put in the eyeballs, like, this is some Jeepers Creepers things, like where'd you get that skin?

Where'd you get that arm? It can be, but it doesn't have to be. Yeah. They often like to add onto the DIY aspect. If you buy them not DIY, a lot of times like on reborns.com they'll come with a little adoption certificate. And like the whole process is set up to mimic an adoption more than it is the purchasing of like a craft item

or a collectible. It definitely feels like something more personal than that. The little directory where you look for where to buy them in your area is called nurseries. There's a whole vernacular of kulti language surrounding this community, probably the most overarching of which is that the people who participate in this community call themselves reborners. The process of a doll being created or adopted is reburning, which is terrifying. Something like English. It really, it makes me think of like build-a-bear but earnest and haunted.

Okay. Yeah, 100%. That's actually a good point. Why do we have such a negative connotation towards dolls, but like building a stuffed animal, which you impart such a similar love to as a child, we don't have as a negative connotation towards that. I think it's the uncanny aspect. Like remember when the live action Lady and the Tramp gave everybody the heebie-jeebies,

but the cartoon version is so warm and fuzzy. It's just like if it too closely approximates a human, it starts to feel scary. Yeah, right. If we had stopped innovating on these things back in like 2007, I don't think we'd be maybe sitting here today discussing it. Right.

It would be less creepy. What are your initial reactions to learning of this community? What does it conjure for you? Well, it's making me think of that show, Servant on Apple TV. Lauren Ambrose. I haven't seen that. I love her.

Truthfully, like from the initial entrance into this topic, I get it. And I do have a lot of sympathy and empathy for anyone going through any type of trauma or loss. And I understand how this could be such a healing process for them. But it does seem like there's another sect of this group that has taken it to a different extreme where it's not about therapy and healing, it's about something else.

What you're describing sounds like the origin story of a cult. It starts as like a therapeutic exercise that turns into a potentially insidious subculture. I'm curious about your thoughts on this terminology, like reborning and reborner. What do you think these sort of spiritual spooky labels offer people? Is it identity, validity, like a little bit of in-group out-group? What do you think?

Well, I guess my question is, so what's the style? It's something like less than 13% of the people who use the Reborn dolls or purchase them are purchasing them for therapeutic reasons to help them with trauma, with miscarriages and child loss. And I think I wouldn't touch the name Reborn or Reborn for those people, because there is probably a lot of healing in that. I'm sure they were exposed to it and encouraged to go see these things by their therapist. And even to like, I think of my Grammy who has dementia and is just past the point of being able to communicate.

And we got her one of those lifelike, but not nearly lifelike, like the reborn, but lifelike cats. And it has really helped her with like the purring and the breathing and everything because she identifies it as a real cat. So I think that there's a lot that can be really helpful. Yeah, actually, Corinne, it's interesting that you mentioned that dementia aspect because we did find a small 2022 study, we'll link it in our show notes, titled, Effect of Doll Therapy and Behavioral and Psychological Symptoms of Dementia, that found that, quote, doll therapy improves the emotional state of people with dementia, diminishes disruptive behaviors and promotes communication, unquote. So clearly for a specific niche of these consumers, though

maybe that's not the culty part, there are empirical benefits to these dolls. Yeah. I think when you consider the other 85 plus percent of people, I find it very bizarre to call yourself this Reborn-er. To me, I'm like, are people trying to have this sort of like power that they can exercise over like creating or like pretending to create this life? And I think I wouldn't think of it as so bizarre. I think of it more as like a brand. If I didn't witness online, so I guess like it's all skewed, but online people very much

pretending that these are real children. And it's not the people who are using them for therapeutic reasons. It's people that are collecting them and trying to promote the dolls who are bringing them on planes, who are letting other people interact with these dolls as if they're real and confusing people and never saying like, this is a freeborn doll. Have you heard of them? They're just like, this is my child. Sabrina, I can see that your wheels are turning right now. They are because in that regard, I have again, like there's clearly something deeper happening to that person who is so convinced and has altered their own reality that they're trying to convince everyone else

that this baby is real as well. So like it does kind of go back to the therapeutic side, but I think they need the therapy part in addition to the child. Like they're missing that. Yeah, I don't know. We're obviously living in a time where there's a great amount of loneliness,

an unprecedented amount of loneliness. And this community, these vessels seem like just a niche way for some people to channel their desire for connection. And because there's a whole market and subculture and terminology that comes with it, you don't have to get too innovative. You can just like click into this community and feel valid and feel less alone without necessarily thinking about whether or not it's healthy for you, whether or not it's delusional. You know, it's like I have delusional hobbies. We all do. And now a quick word from our cult-followed sponsors who make the show possible.

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that their sponsor sounds like a cult. Support everyday wellness with Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to liquidiv.com and use code CULT at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop better hydration today using promo code cult at liquidiv.com. Okay, so let's get into some more specifics of the Reborn dolls market and its cultishness. So upon opening one of the primary Reborn dolls sales sites, Reese already named it Reborns.com.

You're met with listings from tons of Reborn artists selling dolls for anywhere from, actually, could you guess the typical range for one of these babies? I'm guessing like $5,000. Yeah, I was gonna say, I think I would assume that the minimum would be somewhere around like $400 given how much time and effort goes into creating one. It doesn't seem accessible.

Excellent guess. No, this is not like a down market type of collector's item. The cheapest that you can find is around $85. That's for say a 16 inch preemie named Blinken. Then it goes all the way up to closer to $8,500. For that, you can purchase Aliyah, who is a 19.4-incher. And some of these dolls, again, are more realistic than others. The trend of the realism line generally slopes in tandem with the price, but not always. Some of the super expensive reborn dolls have these, say, huge anime eyes that put things distinctly in Uncanny Valley

territory. Other popular categories for these Reborn dolls include ethnic, boo boo, aka dolls manufactured with mistakes sold at a discount, like a coin that was printed just off at the mint, and alternative. So just a few of the quirkier Reborns that you can purchase come from the following alternative categories. Clown, Demons, Elves, Trolls, Zombies, Aliens, Fantasy Creatures, Dogs, Vampires, Minotaurs, Squid and Yeti. Oh my gosh, Corinne, I'm going to get you a Yeti Reborn doll. Wait, yeah. I have no problem with this category. I can get behind these odd ones more. Yeah, yeah.

Those ones are interesting. And they feel more like Halloween costume, collector's item. It doesn't feel as strange to me as the ones that truly, if anyone hasn't seen one of these dolls, they should look them up right now. Watch a video of someone interacting with them because the way that you can move them, I know some of them, I've seen a video of like one that can breathe.

They really do look real. Are these dolls trademarked or are they individually like created by different artists? The latter. So it's not like an American Girl Doll Corporation that has a factory and they're making reborn dolls. There are companies that manufacture them, like Ashton Drake is one of the bigger ones, we'll talk a little bit about them later.

And they sell like various models of dolls, kind of like the American Girls where it's like, all of these ones have faces that skew this way. And like, kind of like I said earlier, it really does vary. You can get from super specific and customizable from specific artists on Etsy, or you can go somewhere like a bigger box store and buy something a bit more pre-made if you're maybe entering into this community. There's a reward for everybody. We love that. Inclusive. Yeah. I feel personally more comfortable with the sort of vampire, minotaur, okay, not comfortable, but I can wrap my head a little better around some of the fantasy iterations

because it feels less like, has anyone seen the show The Nick? No. I think it's an Amazon Prime show. It's such a good show. It's about a hospital at the turn of the 20th century in New York City when they're like first discovering antibiotics

and experimenting with surgeries. But it stars Clive Owen as like a problematic daddy doctor. And he's like so unbelievably sexy. But anyways, there is a plot point in the show, I guess, spoiler alert, where a mother's baby dies of an illness that she shouldn't have contracted. And I mean, she goes baddie, like as you would. And so she's just this like early 20th century mother. It's the turn of the 20th century.

Her only purpose in life is to bear children. And then the one thing that she was meant to do in her life was taken away. And so she's just wearing a gown, floating around the house, tuberculosis chic, wailing, like, where's my baby? My hobbies, for real. And this is why we have the ghostly hauntings of ladies in white. Yes. So the alternative ones obviously inspire a lot of fun. I think, kind of like we touched on, because they're further away from

humans, they're easier to adore, I guess, because you can almost look at them more as works of art as opposed to outlets for grief. So my question to you is if you were to parent an alternative reborn, what varietal would you choose? Would you want a Yeti or a little Shrek or like there's the options are truly endless. Oh my gosh. I'm going to have fraternal triplets and I'm going to do Shrek, Avatar and Yeti. Oh, the Avatar ones. There's a lot of Avatar ones. I love that. I kind of would want an alien probably. Cute.

But then also the sickness in my mind wants me to get the creepiest looking one, like a clown. Just in case it does get haunted, at least I expect it to be. You want to prepare. Yeah. It already gives me the creeps, so if it gets creepier, it's not that much of a stretch. What would you two do? Well, I feel like since we were discussing it, it's got to be like half human half cat,

like one of the animals in Poor Things. That's so cute. I don't know which half would be which but yeah, what about you, Reese? The theater kid in me, there's like a super sickly little Dracula one that I think is kind of so cool. Oh, that's like a super sickly little Dracula one that I think is kind of so fun. Oh, that's cool. And he has like the little popped collar,

but then also I think his name is Gailwyn. He's so fun. I found him while I was researching and I was like, wow, if I had to spare 800, maybe. But- Reese, that is just gonna show up at your door and you're not gonna know where it came from. Oh, my secret admirer have sent me a friend thing.

Ooh. So moving kind of away from the more fun stuff into some of the slightly less fun stuff, we're going to get into what emotional benefits these dolls offer for people as grief tools or coping mechanisms or however you want to put it. So the most intriguing category of Reborn available is the custom category, where you can essentially feature for feature, play God, make exactly the baby you want. A lot of artists set up generic moulds like we were talking about, and then certain features are adjustable by you, the buyer. Obviously if you give the person too much power, you don't

know what they're going to create. It's really horrifying. That's what I was talking about earlier. I wouldn't want too much power. You can customize these things to a crazy extent, like arm length, eye position, eyelash type and colour, what material they're weighted with, how modelled the skin is, or whether they have a clear complexion. Kind of an offshoot of that is that there are dolls sold that appear to be in a myriad of health conditions. So if you lost a baby to a specific illness, you could in theory customize one that maybe like looks like it has that illness or a certain ailment, which the ethics of that are a little iffy in my book. I don't know quite how I feel about that. More than anything, like does that actually help you? Like that I feel like would

almost re-traumatize, but I don't know. I've never experienced it, so I... Well, and in these situations, I am curious, are the people who are losing children and seeking out these reborn dolls to these illnesses, are they the ones buying them or is it someone else? Because that really changes things. That's true. Just opens up a whole new conversation because I am curious, do they have all their anatomical parts too? Because it changes who could be seeking out these dolls. I feel like I've been on the internet for too long and I've seen some disgusting behaviors

and a lot of them have been directed towards children. So I'm almost protective of the dolls because they look so similar. Oh, I didn't even think of that. Neither did I, but that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I feel like there needs to be an interview, a test that you have to pass to be able to get one. It does feel like something that you should only have access to through therapy. It should be like a, you know, you go to a psychiatrist to get certain medications. But we live in a consumerist economy that those companies would never just be like, oh, we'll stop selling our dolls unless you have a doctor's note. Yeah, there's no fucking way.

And also because like to give people the benefit of the doubt, like most people are not doing the wrong thing and people do the wrong thing with all kinds of things. Absolutely. And a lot of these artists, their livelihood is making freaky little footlong mermaids. If they can only be obtained through therapy, that's a lot of artists that are out there. Red tape, yeah.

Yeah, I have no problem with the mermaids with all that genre. I worry when it comes to the lifelike human. Yeah. Oh yeah. Then I feel conflicted about it and I'm just working through this in real time. So forgive and maybe forget. But I don't know, I feel like we shouldn't accommodate our society to like the creepiest, most fucked up people in it. That's true. I don't know. I've never thought

about the subject matter ever in my life. So these takes are hot and spicy and spooky. As we've been speaking about, a large portion of the reborn community is grieving mothers who will customize these dolls to look like they're a deceased child or hypothetical children. Mothers of stillborn babies, mothers who've miscarried or experienced neonatal loss. People with empty nester syndrome are a lot of the time people who have these dolls. A lot of older patients, like you mentioned your grandmother, a lot of the elderly find caring for something like a reborn doll to be very helpful to them. And these dolls being so super customizable and super undeniably culty language surrounding the buying process, like,

oh, I'm now a reborner, adopting my child from a nursery can obviously help to fill that void of a missing child. Yeah, it definitely is one of those corners of society that is so easy to judge, but we'll evaluate at the end obviously how dangerously culty it really is because at this particular juncture I can't tell. Listen up, renters. Do you ever feel like you're in this loop of rent payments just watching your money vanish into thin air? It's time to turn that rent game around and start earning some serious rewards. That's where Built Rewards comes in. Built is breaking ground as a neighborhood rewards program that hooks you up with points on your rent. Every month pay your rent and watch the built points roll in.

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you can get an additional $50 off when you go to stopscoping.com slash SLAC. That's an additional $50 off when you go to stopscoping.com slash SLAC. Stopscoping.com slash SLAC stop scooping.com slash SLAC. The thing that I find the cultiest about reborn dolls is how different the perception of these dolls is within the community versus outside of the community. Like, obviously, we're sitting here right now talking about how creepy we find these things and how horrified we are and like, oh my god, they're ugly. these things and how horrified we are and like, oh my god, they're ugly. But then these people inside the community, these things are their livelihoods. These things are their objects of adoration. They're children. They empathize with them so greatly. One Reborner, Sue56, said that

you get this repulsion from some because it looks so lifelike and they just see a dead baby. Which I think to an extent is true. To us, that's essentially what they are. They're weird imitations of things that were once alive. But for them, it's a completely different thing. And that contrast is what I find really cult-y. Yes, because they could start to unite on the inside because of the pushback or judgment that they get from outsiders. So I want to walk through some more of the qualities that make this community cultish. And by the way, as always on the show,

the term cultish is not necessarily like a negative judgment value. It can be, but you know, the term cult is as always up to interpretation. So tons of online communities and IRL communities have erected around reborn dolls. Sorry, I hate when I have to use the word erected, but I did.

You know what? We find a way to use it frequently in our podcast and it almost never should be used when talking about the paranormal, so you're good. I know. It's just like, it's a useful word. It's just like, I actually, I blame penises for really. So according to an article titled, Out and About People and Places International Reborn Doll Artists from Doll Reader Magazine, the whole trade magazine like world is wild, some organizations like International Reborn Dolls Artists or IRDA are focused on the artistry, offering courses in new dollmaking technology and helping members to make dolls better. So, IRDA members are beholden to a certain ethical code, ensuring that all people involved

in the dollmaking process get their due credit in the listing for the doll. So, this is more where it's like a craft and art form. I do feel like we should take a moment to acknowledge that part of what is so fascinating about these dolls is how impressive they can look. Like there is a huge amount of incredibly meticulous artistry that goes into making these dolls almost like hyper-realistic paintings. I'm thinking about the like evolution of art in general.

Like if you look at art history and you study like the first renderings of cave paintings and like depictions of human, and then how over time the realism of a portrait of a person has evolved. It is kind of incredible that now there are artists who are creating these dolls that at first glance, you truly do think they're real.

Like that is really cool. Totally, I mean, no matter what field we're in, we as humans like to push boundaries. We like progress, you know, and I think this is progress in like kind of a weird direction, but you know, it tracks with how we like to be. So the sites selling these dolls do actively encourage a sense of community with pages where one can view all of the recently adopted, AKA sold dolls on the site and a nurseries tab which will direct you

to cellars in your area, complete with photos and descriptions of the cellar. So it's creepy and sweet and crazy and I feel like all of those qualities are working together. Like it's making me think of the wax museum where we go to the wax museum, we learn all the background of how they're created and it to the wax museum, we learn all the background of how they're created and it's so incredibly impressive, the measurements, how people sit through getting the molds done. But we still, despite learning all about the artistry and the hard work, when you are still in front of that wax figure, something in you is terrified because it just still feels

off. Or you're like, that one's goofy. You're like, I swear that one blinked at me. Samuel L. Jackson, his finger twitched. I swear I saw it. It is creepy. It is, but it's also so weird because there's such a duality of human psyche where we as humans are drawn to things that look like us and we feel more comfortable if it's something that looks like us. Like there's that psychological effect, pareidolia. I was just thinking that the man in the moon. Right. Where we see faces in things where there are no faces,

but it's because that's how our brain can help process and connect to something. Totally. So there is a weird like dichotomy between it. Like it's creepy, but also that's what our brains are drawn to. So that's such a good point. So I also want to mention that you can find this community anywhere. If you think Reborners do not exist in your town, you are wrong. The resale community is equal, if not larger than the initial sale community and listings pop up for Reborns all over Facebook Marketplace, Etsy, eBay and more.

I know what I'm doing the second I get off this call. I'm like, what Reborn dolls do they sell in Silverlake? Yeah, same. Just like a hipster reborn doll is like wearing, you know, like a tattered APC sweater and like with a boy genius t-shirt over it. Well, I'm definitely looking this up because being in the North Shore of Massachusetts and having Salem, Massachusetts so accessible in my area I'm so curious what type of reborn dolls are being collected over here because Salem I just think by default like when I look at anything online

Things are so incredibly old in Massachusetts and just like on the East Coast That I'm curious if the majority of the reborn dolls over here are more of those like cryptid creature. I would love to know. Or if it's just, you know, Max. I'll let you guys know. By sending you a picture of my baby Yeti that I will purchase and then I'll text you and be like, guess what I found?

I'm changing my answer. I want an Abigail Williams reborn doll. That's my answer. I feel like I need to like actually look at the whole catalog to actually know what I would want. Mm-hmm. There's something for everyone.

Listen, we're all like roasting the living fuck out of Reborn Dolls. The second we get off this call, we're all gonna buy one. I'm subscribing to Doll Reader Magazine. Okay, so there are also conventions. In 2005, the first Reborn Dolls convention was held in, guess where? Florida! The great state of Florida in Orlando. And there have been tons of conventions and competitions since, some even sponsored by

Doll Reader Magazine. Competitions. Where, you know, you can imagine what that would be like. You know, it's like, who can grow the biggest pumpkin? Yeah, exactly. Like toddlers and tiaras. What's your doll's talent? I just think of those kids that show sheep or they show like pigs or whatever and they have to make really intense eye contact for the judges as they're doing it. Just picturing people like with baby carriers and the baby in front of them and just making extreme eye contact

with the judges as they go by. Okay, so that's of course the in-person side of things, which generally when it comes to modern day cults, I actually like when people bring their culty fanaticism to the real world because when you're able to perceive the humanity of another person for a brief period like a convention, I feel like you can adjudicate your limits a little better,

whereas online, like, you can really spiral. It's like when you fall in love with someone in a hinge chat, and then you actually go on a date, and you're like, oh my God, you actually suck. Right, right. Can like make it real. Speaking of the online side of things, the Reborn Dolls Reddit has over 2,000 members who post videos and pictures captioned things like,

my son Victor has arrived and anyone else unable to rehome their collection? Posters also work together to track down certain models of desired dolls or ask for advice on building their own. And then of course, as Reese mentioned, if Reborn Dolls exists, you know that Reborn Doll cringe must exist. This is a cult in its own right, and it's actually bigger. This Reborn Dolls cringe thread has a steamrolling 76,000 members, and it's only existed for a little over a year. So a post on the subreddit summing up what members have learned surveying the Rebornr

community clarifies that Rebornr's quote, deserve our full compassion and respect, but also some of the dolls are really creepy. So I think there is generally like a sense of compassion. It's everything we're saying. Like people are like, what the literal fuck and also like be gentle with them. Right. It's such a hard line. My instinct though is to say

that the cringe subreddit and like that community is almost more cult-like than the Reborners themselves. Always. Wait, Reese, what are your thoughts on that since you're kind of like in it a little bit? Well, I definitely am. I'm one of the 76,000. When I realized how much larger the gringy community was in the initial subreddit, part of me was kind of like, ooh, is this a mean and unethical thing we're doing here? And then I think about it a little more and I'm like, well, let's think realistically. The most vulnerable people that are interacting with reborn dolls are probably not on Reddit, they're probably like 80-year-old ladies getting down in the nursing home. And a majority of what the cringe community tends to focus on is something that we're going to get into, which is the world of reborn influencers.

Which is exactly what it sounds like. People posting their dolls online. It's content they're putting out there on the internet to be spoken about and whatnot. Obviously, there's boundaries, but I think as long as you keep a healthy perspective of what these dolls can do for people and you consider how they can be helpful, it's fine to be like that one's eyes a little lumpy and it's funny. It's basically what we're doing this whole episode. Literally. Yeah.

Oh, here's an interesting question that I have for you guys. And I guess Sabrina and I can provide some background. Amanda, you mentioned conventions and how people will come together. There's competitions. People have all of their reborn dolls there. There seems to be so much energy from a lot of people to believe that these dolls are real or that they are just channeling a lot of their grief or a lot of their love into these dolls.

There is such thing as creating a haunting. So you don't have to purchase a doll or an artifact that's already haunted or have something in your house, just choose that object, you and other people around you, if you put enough energy towards an object, it can start to kind of manifest and create its own sort of entity. And so I am curious if anyone has ever experienced this with a reborn doll. And if so, I feel terribly for them because I feel like the judgments reborn dolls have,

people would assume that they have just gone a little bit too far into the belief that the doll is real and not actually understanding that, yeah, maybe they're- They're like, no, there's a stereo there. Yeah. Quite literally is something attached to it now. I don't have a specific example in mind. However, I do know that in general, if you feel as though

outsiders are starting to question a belief or behavior that you hold dear, it will most likely motivate you not to interrogate that belief or behavior, but lean into it, the backfire effect, so it's called. And so, you know, speculatively, I could envision a scenario where someone feels really protective of their reborn doll behavior, starts to perceive others in the cringe community or on a podcast, starting to make them feel a little bit threatened or judged. And so maybe their energy gets more intense. I mean, who among us has not spiraled because they felt like somebody was judging or threatening a belief that they held, you know? That's a way that I've personally haunted myself.

That's so true. That's such a fun horror movie plot though, where it's like grieving lady devotes her life to this doll and accidentally invites a spirit to inhabit it and creates a whole new paranormal beast. I would watch the shit out of that as like a Hulu limited series. Let's write it. Okay, collaborator. We'll have our people contact their people. I am interested to hear from you two, Sabrina and Corinne. You know, you are people who speak quite a bit about death and dying. You must ponder grief, at least tangentially semi often. In the schema of ways to process the loss of a loved one,

how do you think this ranks in terms of out there things you've heard of throughout the making of your podcast? I feel like it's in line. I mean, one thing we talk about a lot with the paranormal is we are never going to judge someone and their experience because it's their personal experience If they believe that they had an experience like a haunted experience with a deceased loved one Why would we ever ever be like no you didn't because that's what they need

Whether you want to believe it or not We choose to believe it because one we believe in the paranormal but then to like that moment can offer someone so much solace and Peace in a time of grief and sadness. So I think when it comes to grieving a loss of a child, if you find some healing in adopting a reborner, like who are we to judge if you were using it in that way? Right. But I mean, I go back to thinking about the movie Lars and the Real Girl too, where it's like, I feel like there needs to be a little bit of a plan in terms of the grief.

That's why I'm almost like, why I think a therapist or someone needs to be involved, because just having seen them, they are so realistic that I also worry when people are going through something like this, that they could get lost in what these dolls can provide them, which is appearing to be a child, like a living child. And so I do worry about people kind of prolonging it and having the reverse effects, but that's just a worry or like a wonder of mine. Right, ideally you have both

where they are processing their grief with the doll, but also have someone to talk through that and process trauma with. Yeah. Yeah. It is difficult because the way the way in which one grieves through a doll is by playing with the doll and for a lot of people this is very literal like you spoke about bringing dolls on planes a lot of these people live their lives with these dolls as their de facto children. They change their diaper, they take them to the park, they live with these dolls as their children. A lot of them refer to cuddling them or holding them as like cuddle therapy is another term that's popular

in the community. It's been researched that cuddling babies releases oxytocin in mothers, and it's assumed that this is probably the phenomenon being referred to, like a similar thing is happening with these dolls, which is kind of like – it's almost endearing in a way. At the end of the day, we are just like animals searching out the feel-good hormones, you know? Gigi For sure. L. And like you were speaking about, grief counsellors and professionals are pretty divided on the extent to which this is healthy and in what ways this is healthy.

The argument for is that obviously these dolls can provide an outlet for maternal instincts and allow the mother to grieve and remember their child. But on the flip side, excessive reliance or obsession on these dolls can definitely stagnate the healing process for sure. Some people grieve through these dolls super, super literally. I found this blog from 2008 which detailed the story of this mother who had her baby's ashes put into the body of a reborn doll that she then parented, if you would call it that. Kite Yeah, I think a lot about delusion in general as a coping mechanism. I think a certain amount of mysticism and delusion is fine. It's human. It's a part of the experience of being alive and wonderingusion is fine. It's human, it's like a part of the experience

of being alive and wondering why the fuck we're here and how we can feel better. And as nice as it feels to prove someone wrong or to point out that someone is being irrational, that's not effective, that's not generous. It's only when that delusion starts to, I think, harm other people, especially en masse. Does it start to become not only negative but cultish? And so I wonder from each of you, like, at

what point do you think this reborn doll community crosses the threshold from, like, sad and weird to culty? Yeah, I'm sure it's probably healing for people to have these dolls. And I'm sure there are some meetup groups where they can all like bring their dolls and pretend that they are real children. I think when these people who are utilizing the reborn dolls interact with someone who's never heard of a reborn doll, has never seen one, can't identify it, and they go longer than like, I don't know, two or three minutes in conversation without identifying it as a doll. That also feels like it's getting into sort of like a cultish type territory. Because you're like recruiting other people into your delusion, you know? It's like when you interact with a religious extremist in the wild, you're like,

how am I supposed to be around you, dude? Like, am I supposed to, like, make you feel comfortable by, like, validating the problematic things you're saying? Like, what am I supposed to do? So it's kind of like that. Exactly. I guess that's hard, though. Like, if someone came up to me and had a reborn doll in their stroller and they start talking about their child, I guess I'm not sure at what point I would feel like

their belief in it is hurting me. But I understand what you're saying. I guess it's just like if that's their own delusion in order to survive everyday life, is that hurting me? I don't know. Even if it's not hurting you, I feel like if there is a whole robust online community and IRL community sharing and perpetuating this behavior and sort of like radicalizing it and making it more extreme because you know we feed off one another like in my freaking

line dancing community. It's like it could have been casual but we're like always one-upping each other you know. Yeah I think like even if no one on the outside is necessarily like super negatively affected by the insular community. When everyone else is kind of like inviting the other members into the eye of the storm or like to get more wrapped up in the whirlpool of it, it could start to take over your life, separate you from those on the outside. And that's when things start to get... In my opinion, too cultish for comfort.

Okay, so before we get into our culty verdict, there is a worst case scenario that I'm gonna need Reese to tell us all. Okay, so we spoke a little bit about reborn doll influencers. I'm gonna tell you a little bit about the most popular one or what I perceive to be the most popular one and what I kind of took some time to grapple with in joining the Reborn Dolls cringe community because it was such like a what the fuck is this and now I've learned and I can't unsee it and that is Britton Rose. The most popular subject of conversation on Reborn Doll cringe is a Reborn by the name of Britton Rose. Britton is the doll persona of a woman on Facebook with 3.2 thousand followers named Jamie Beebe, I believe is how you pronounce her name, sorry to Jamie if that's incorrect. Her followers know her as Reborns with Reasons. Jamie utilizes

Reborns to help the elderly. Britton is her most popular doll. Brittany, reborn in 2016, posts photos multiple times a day in various places and poses, you know, getting into a cookie jar. Oops, I'm a little naughty, like I'm like a swing, like, you know, just doing silly little toddler antics. So elf on a shelf? How old is Brittany supposed to be? Honestly, it's really hard to discern because Brittain is most definitely like a baby. But the captions are in this like cheeky baby talk vernacular.

A lot of the Reward Doll cringe community has now co-opted the language because we think it's funny. There are a lot of key phrases like tookie for cookie is one, like you know, a lot of like quirkily, oh we misspelled this word because I'm just a baby, but it's this grown woman posting. But yeah, Britten is a minor celebrity in the reward community and even in the cringe community. Whether or not the admiration from the cringe community is ironic or more earnest is kind of difficult to discern. A redditor posted on the cringe subreddit,

I used to hate Britten posts, but after every time I saw one, I couldn't help but genuinely laugh. I now check the sub just to see what antics Britten's getting up to. My boyfriend and I quote her regularly, and she legitimately makes my day a little better when I see that smug face. Okay. I mean, think of the number of things that we've all embraced at first ironically and then earnestly. Like for me, the word sleigh. Sleigh. Exactly. Birkenstocks for me, I was like, ew, now I'm like, give me five pairs. Birding for me. I'm birding age now, or my soul is. Love that.

That's wonderful. In 2018, Britton's mom did an Ask Me Anything on Reborn Doll Cringe, which is like, you know, kind of, which is kind of sweet, interacting with the cringe community. You have to be a very empathetic person to be able to engage with people that are laughing at you, and I respect that really greatly. She says that she discovered Reborn through a Facebook ad, which props to her for being intrigued by said ad. I would have instantly said, show me fewer posts like this or whatever the option is. So she started perusing the Ashton Drake website, which is the retailer I spoke about earlier

that this ad was for, eventually selecting the Daddy's Little Girl model. I don't like that name, to be honest, but okay. Oh no. No, no, no. But Britton's mom acknowledges that rewards are not for everyone and that her posts can seem over the top, but that they're all in good fun.

It sounds like she's describing sounds like a cult. Not for everyone over the top, all in good fun. Put that on a t-shirt. That's our new tagline. Jamie has implied that there are social classes and hierarchies within the Reborn community, apparently much like Birding, which is crazy. She has also confirmed that she is somewhat of a celebrity in the Reborn Doll community itself, as well as the Cringe community. She does bring Britain in public often, as do many Reborners, but she says that she gets

less stares than you might think. And something that I find really crucial to Britain's success is that Jamie acknowledges that Britain is not a real baby. But she also acknowledges that a lot of Reborners do not acknowledge that their babies are not real babies. A lot of creators aren't as realistic as Britten's creators. Some Reborners revel in doting after their dolls as if they were real children. You know, you get to get all your maternal instincts out. You don't have to actually feed the thing. It's kind of a best of both worlds scenario. I feel like I haven't seen any of Britain's posts, but I'm imagining it's very much like quirky. Yeah, for me it's really reminiscent of like the 2016-2017 era where a lot of people had Instagram accounts for their dogs where they posted like dog baby speak voice. It feels a lot like that. Doggolingo. Yeah, where it's like now

we look back and we're kind of like, but like it's right. And like the dogs have their own like voices and personalities. Yeah, they would be like, Bork Bork. I'm 11 out of 10. And again, we keep coming back to this like when it's animals, when it's stuffed animals, it's fine. And when it's people, we're literally like what legal and institutional barriers can we put in place to prevent this from happening? So true. Gabbard- Definitely. A lot of these reborners aren't as realistic and it definitely verges

into weird territory. This one reborner, still ABC, that she savors moments when other people think that her rewards are real, which that just makes me kind of sad. I find that really sad. Kat- And it is interesting too, because oftentimes when we think of dolls, we think of them as toys made for children. But this is really marketed towards adults. And I had seen some things online saying that there aren't any real toy distributors and retailers that are willing to have these dolls on the market.

And I'm curious as to their reasons why. Is it something where it's like, children are meant to use their imagination and to interact with things that they know are toys and have that line of like, what is reality and what is not? And this is just too close to riding on that line for kids. And then obviously I feel like that's real because there's some truth to that

because we're seeing some adults also kind of struggle with that. Yeah, it's representative of our time in general, where we're as a culture struggling to find the line between what's delusional, what's uncanny and what's real. We're living in the age of AI, right? This is sort of the tactile version of those same questions and confusions. Right, I think of the movie Megan too, like Ex Machina, where robots are created to look just like us, and then something goes wrong.

We're gonna have to come up with a list of a whole like film watch list of like all the movies and TV shows that we've mentioned on this episode, because there is totally like a reborn doll watch playlist. We're gonna put that together. Okay, let's do it. Generally, I think the consensus is that there's a strong bond over a niche interest. There is a cult-y, vaguely spiritual, very exclusive vocabulary. This community targets really emotionally vulnerable participants. The demographic is so sensitive, I guess you could say, or you really have to be

delicate with this group of people, which is why critiquing them is so difficult, as we've spoken about. And there's a low cost to be interested, but definitely a super high cost long term. Like that post earlier, it's hard to sell your collection if you want to get out of this community, if you want to heal and move past it. There's a pretty high exit cost. Now I'm just picturing like a weird disposal situation happening, like this is why people find dolls in the woods. Totally. And then they get inhabited by spirits and then you guys talk about them on your podcast

and it's all a cycle. You know what this is also making me think of just in terms of the terminology and the vibes is that like in this community and in a lot of culty religions, there is like a born again energy. Like I think as a society when things are going badly, when a curve ball comes your way in life,

or you're going through a really tough time, there is this strong desire to wanna start over, to wanna be born again. You know, you see that in evangelicalism and just like this is not unlike those born again, religious sects and denominations where like, it's this sort of spiritual opportunity to start over. Well, and one of the things that we see happen in the paranormal is that there's been many different hauntings that are associated with a particular person, but not that person as in like their spirit in its full form, but rather they had something traumatic happen to them or there was a piece of their personality

that just kind of festered when they moved on into the spirit realm or even if they were still living where it just manifests and creates its own type of energy. For example, I had a coworker when I was not full-time podcasting outside of this job, she was very intuitive. She could pick up on people's energies and she was pretty powerful in terms of releasing her own soul and kind of like actual projecting and having some real control over it. And so she would work with therapists in Massachusetts to help people who'd had a traumatic experience

find that piece of their soul that is kind of like hiding and chipped off and quivering or angry or sad or whatever, and bring it back to them so that they can work on that piece of them. And so I am curious too, I mean, we mentioned like the opportunity for reborn dolls to become haunted, but I also am curious if there's a little bit of that where it's like you use the doll to kind of like attract and bring back that piece of you that has left your soul and will always leave

this open void and wound unless you can heal it. And maybe that doll is that catalyst. Oh yeah. Like maybe there's like a self-parenting aspect to some of this. Totally. Yeah, yeah. No, honestly, I mean, like as mental health conversations become more mainstream and more destigmatized, it also like opens the door for people to like fuck with their own mental health treatment in ways that are like kind of weird you know? Kinda spooky! I mean I've done like so many of those treatments and like part of like inner child work is doing things that are childlike but yeah if you could reparent yourself like that I wonder what that could do for you. I think my concern here is like as long as

people are willingly doing this on their own and like attempting to heal some trauma or whatever it might be, even if it's not even healing trauma, if it's just an expiration that they wanted to dive into, if they're making that decision on their own, I think that's totally fine. My concern is if someone from that community were to find out that someone lost a child and then they try to bring them into it

is where it gets dangerous. Yeah. Yes. So we're exploring all the bounds of like potential worst case scenarios, what's okay, what's not okay. And that brings us to the final question that we ask at the end of every Sounds Like a Cult episode. I'm going to ask each of you, Reese, Sabrina, Corinne, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out, which category do you think the cult of reborn dolls

falls into? Should we all say it once? One, two, three, watch your back of fun. Live your life. I was going to say live your life. Amanda. Amanda. Wow, Amanda, you are. But this is who I am on the show. I'm just like scared and cynical.

Sure. Yeah. There are definitely subgroups of this cult that I would say is are a watch your back. But overall, I'm going to rate it as a live your life. Wow. I'm so I'm like this was unexpected. Well, okay, I feel like I'm also being a little bit kinder right now too, because I can see myself and Sabrina, if there ever is kind of like a sub cult of this cult where some of these dolls do end up becoming haunted, I could see us realistically becoming collectors.

A part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I can see myself. I'll speak for myself. We do have a bias to call groups that we could see ourselves participating in a live your life. Yeah, right. Yeah.

I'm like, just let them do what they want. And as someone who has done heavy amounts of trauma treatment, I imagine that if I were to ever be in a situation like that, I could understand why I would be inclined to get a Reborn doll. Yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe I really just think the reborn doll cringe community is a watcher back, but that feels like a live your life too. That feels like a live your life, but like be nice. Be kind. Yeah.

It does seem like they are being kind, but I guess like Reddit is also a dangerous place and like people are mean on Reddit. So like there's a fine line. No, maybe maybe you're right. Maybe it's, you know, like the internet is a watcher back. Absolutely. But this subsect, yeah, perhaps it's a live your life. I'm gonna continue thinking about this

probably for the rest of my life. Thank you all so much for participating in this episode of Sounds Like a Cult. Reese, thank you for being spooky. Sabrina and Corinne, thank you both for being spooky. If folks wanna keep up with Two Girls, One Ghost and your little cult, where can they do that? We are on all podcast platforms

and then we also have a YouTube channel and we also have like bonus content and everything on Patreon. If you're interested in the paranormal, whether it be Bigfoot, aliens, visits from loved ones or just the classic haunted house, we cover those topics multiple times a week, every single week.

And we have seven years of episodes. And cover those topics multiple times a week, every single week. And we have seven years of episodes. And if you have your own haunting too, you can share it with us and we will read it to the community. And it's a safe place to talk about being haunted. You are accepted. Love that. Well, that's our show.

Thanks so much for listening. Stick around for a new cult next week, but in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult is hosted and produced by Amanda Montell and edited by Jordan Moore of the Pod Cabin. Our theme music is by Casey Cold. This episode was co-hosted and co-produced by Reese Oliver. Thank you as well to Katie Epperson. And if you liked the show, please feel free to check out my books, Word Slut, A Feminist

Guide to Taking Back the English Language, Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, and The Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality. If you're a fan of Sounds Like a Cult, I'd really appreciate it if you would leave a rating and review on Spotify or Apple podcasts.