Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Romance Novels

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

Clutch your pearls and cancel your plans, because this week Sounds Like A Cult is getting spicy. We’re welcoming our brand new co-host Iman Hariri-Kia (@imanharirikia), romance author, cultural critic, and certified defender of the genre, to break down The Cult of Romance Novels. We're joined by romance author Alexa Martin (@alexambooks) to talk about romance novels as sex education for women, the intense sense of community among readers, and why the genre is so often dismissed despite being wildly popular. Plus, we get into beloved tropes, Heated Rivalry, and how Alexa might have accidentally predicted the Travis Kelce/Taylor Swift era. Is romance harmless hopecore, or a full-blown belief system? Plus, what that snake tongue do? Subscribe to Sounds Like A Cult on Youtube!Follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod, @amanda_montell, @reesaronii, @chelseaxcharles, @imanharirikia.  Thank you to our sponsors! To save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain Head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.squarespace.com/CULT⁠⁠ Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to ⁠⁠https://Quince.com/slac⁠⁠ Get unlimited premium wireless for just $15 per month at ⁠https://MINTMOBILE.com/cult Come see Sounds Like A Cult LIVE at The Bell House in New York on April 21st! Tickets at amandamontell.com/events To learn more about how to support Minnesota’s immigrant communities, check out this MSP Mag article, which shares several ways to offer help or find support. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform to help entrepreneurs stand out and succeed online. I am a long-time Squarespace user, and updating the website is always super easy, and that is thanks to Squarespace features like their design intelligence. Squarespace payments also makes it easy to sell things online. And I also love that you can set up fundraisers on a Squarespace website. Head to Squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, go to Squarespace.com slash cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code cult.

The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. I just have to open with the following. We recorded our intro to this episode like a month ago. Truly. Never in Sounds Like a Cult history has my relationship to, to the cult of the week changed so dramatically. I was thinking about that because you and I had a little banter about heated rivalry. And I would say since then, the extent to which we have discussed heated rivalry has upshot, what, 110%. I'm actually getting a heated rivalry flash tattoo.

I'm getting gimmikis. Gimmy keys. Oh my gosh, I die. I'm so excited. Gimme keys tramp stamp. Should I? Yes. Do I dare?

Yes. The point is, Alexa, that I. didn't understand this cult at all when we recorded our intro because this isn't my literary world, but I now am dipping my ass in. I started listening to Rachel Reed's series on audio. I've never done such a thing. No, it's because you need more. You can't be satiated. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montel, author of books including cultish. And I'm Imamonari Kea, the author of female fantasy. see the most famous girl in the world and 100 other girls.

Every week on this show, we discuss a different group or guru that puts the cults in culture, from Satanists to Swifties to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really? And if so, which of our cult categories does it fall into? I'll live your life, a watch your back, or I get the fuck out. Exactly. Because you know what, Amman? Colts fall along a spectrum these days.

And not all destructive, exploitative, low-key, manipulative groups appear like Manson-esque compounds in the woods. Sometimes they show up in your Silicon Valley startups, sometimes cultish influences in your fandoms. And sometimes it shows up in a book club, I don't know, a steamy, spicy book club. A romance book con. A romance book con. That seems kind of sweet. and net positive at the start, and maybe it is. But then it ends up Loki taking over your life.

A romance book con is a slippery slope because one day you're buying a ticket and you're flying across the country and the next you're following your favorite author on a 10-stop tour. Oh my God, people really follow their favorite romanticcy authors. Like people follow The Grateful Day. I have done enough romance events with repeat authors where I recognize groups of people who have traveled to be at three or four events in a row. And I am lucky enough to say that now that I'm publishing romance, that I have recognized readers at multiple stops in multiple states. Oh my God, they're like peripatetic acolytes, like pilgrimaging.

It is one of the coolest and cultiest parts of being in the cult of romance, which I just self-identified as being a member of. Yeah, well, I mean, heaven that you're here. And speaking of you being here, Amman, welcome to the Coven. You are our new fourth co-host. Thank you so much. I could not be more thrilled to be here. The honor is all mine. Oh my God. We are all frothing and foaming and so overjoyed that you're joining our cult. I have always felt that this podcast really benefits from like a diversity of voices and opinion and characters and we're all having the best time already. Could you introduce yourself like ever

so briefly? I mean, the culties are going to get to know you very well throughout this episode. But could you just say a little tidbit and all. So, like, preface why this episode had to be your debut. Well, I don't know about all that, but I definitely can give myself a little intro and talk about why romance novels are my reason for being. So my name is Imondvery Kia. I am a writer born and based in New York City. I worked as a journalist in the sex and relationship space for about a decade.

My debut novel, 100 Other Girls, was published in 2022, and since then I've gone on to publish two other books, the most famous girl in the world, and my most recent novel, Female Fantasy, which is actually a romance novel about the importance and significance of the romance genre. So I cannot imagine a better episode to start off my Sounds Like Occult tenure than romance novels because I've been a lifelong reader and now I am, some might say, occulty defender of the inherent value of the genre. Yes. I truly believe, and I'm like scared to say it, but also going to say it, that romance readers are one of if not the most cult like fandom in all of media. They are so devout.

They're so voracious. And I feel like you're going to check some of my, not judgment, but some of my like preconceived notions today because I'm an author. I have a lot of passionate thoughts and opinions about the publishing industry and elitism and us versus them dynamics that exist in it.

But genres within publishing are extremely siloed. And in the book talk age, in the age of good reads, that I feel even more true. And I have been warned about the fringy zealotry of the romance readership and the dynamics between its authors and its readers. So I am just like fascinated for your insight. This is such a perfect time for me to be having this conversation with you. And before I get into the weeds a little bit, in case you haven't guessed it, based on the context we're giving you, we're diving into the cult of romance novels today. Think enemies to lovers. There's only one bed, second chance romance.

Romance novels have been around since the dawn of time. But right now, literally, I'm not only talking rom-coms and like sexy eroticas. I'm talking bodice rippers, holliquid novels, romantic letters that have been slipped into the pockets of lovers. I'm talking about diary entries that are both salacious and then interpreted. This all falls under the cult of romance, but you more so probably have been hearing about romance as big blockbuster romantically series, fourth wing, Quicksilver, Akatar, and then of course, popular adaptations like Bridgerton, people we meet on vacation, heated rivalry, romances on the tips of everyone's tongues. Whoa. Do you find yourself being like more flirtatious and suggestive in your daily life now that you're a romance author? So I worked in sex and relationships for about 10 years. My friends tell me that I talk about sex with a straight face,

way that most people talk about their grocery list. Like, I just lost any and all ability to blush when it comes to anything. Can you say, like, the most erotic romance novel sentence you can think of right now with a straight face? Yeah, I mean, I was reading a basilisk shifter erotica. So, like, snake porn? Basically, except I found out while reading the basilisk shifter erotica, that snake is actually a slur for serpent. They prefer basilisk. So that was actually kind of. of derogatory of you. Within the world, within the world of romance, snake. In the world of this duology. So I was reading the series because I moderated an event for the author at Barnes Noble Union Square. And I went in blind to reading this book. The author's note did warn me that I would be

forever changed after reading it and I was a little scared. It was a very culty message. And I read the duology. There was, yes, basilisk shifters in that they do shift from snake to human. Their tongues do split to hit the clit in the badge at the same time. There were like detachable claw vibrators. There was mind-fucking all that. But that didn't even come close to the surface. There was a sex ritual in which our FMC in question had to have sex with the shifter's father in front of him and then have sex with him. And then there was like a 24-hour orgy.

That was nothing compared to the sex tournament in book two in which the entire colony, had to take part in the auriborous ritual, which is where everyone 69's and a big infinity symbol. And then they can only leave the circle till they finish. I can talk like this without breaking a sweat. I attribute all of that to my years and years of like writing about my masturbation routine and interviewing people about no, not November. Wow. Okay. So we have a lot to get into today.

You are unbelievably passionate about this subject. I am morbidly curious and terrified by it. But before we're able to do our culty analysis, could you just define for the people? What even is a romance novel? So a romance novel is actually extremely simple to define. There are two core tenets of a romance novel. In order to have a romance, the central love story has to be defined by the two people in the relationship. The plot has to center the couple getting together.

That has to be the main storyline driving it forward. And the only other key ingredient is aptly ever after. Yeah, it has to end and happily ever after. And I think a lot of people confuse romances and love stories. Love stories can center a couple, but they don't necessarily need to end

an happily ever after. Got it. A romance has a guaranteed H-E-A, which is lingo. Yes, oh my God, the lingo is so robust. Culty beige flag, I guess, not necessarily a red one, depending on how critical thinking,

dampening the language really is. I want to get into a little bit of the history of this cult, because I feel like it sets up some important context. But I also want to mention that I love the two perspectives that we're bringing to this today because you're going to educate me so much. But also I developed a fascination with this based on a documentary that I watched on Hulu called Noddy Books. And it was specifically, I think mostly about the self-published erotica world,

which like there are some self-published erotica writers who like write a book every four months and are millionaires. Yes. Like multi-multimil millions. I know them. Yeah. 100%. But guess what? those people are being bought out by traditional publishing because traditional publishing, it was

floundering and they needed those big bucks to keep the rest of the industry afloat. Totally. Okay, so the romance genre has been on quite the journey since its early days, and we kind of want to quantify that journey. Romance novels start out mainly as books written by women about women for women. That's according to an article from the New York Public Library, authors that you may have heard of like Jane Austen and the Bronte sisters helped lead the romance novel movement in the 19th century. Early romance novels were focused on heterosexual relationships, as you can imagine being gay was not okay back in the day, and breaking out of social norms on their way to find their own happiness.

Now, there was a resurgence in romance in the 20th century, a time when historical fiction and gothic novels were also very popular. For a long time, romance novels centered on domestic, squabbles, but then finally in the 1950s and 60s, these novels were portraying women doing things outside of the home in exotic and frilly places. And then in the 1970s, sexual revolution in America, things really started to heat up with the introduction of a genre called The Bodhis Ripper. Previously, things were pretty PG in the romance world, but with Kathleen E. Woodo-Wittowist's

book, The Flame and the Flower, sex scenes full. blown basilisk, two-pronged clit stimulator, whoa, I am blushing, started showing up in romances. Think those hot covers with a couple in a sexy embrace, Fabio was beginning to Fabio. It was a time. The flame in the flower was also pretty revolutionary for going straight to paperback, making it an easier and cheaper read, bringing in a bigger audience, but maybe also bringing in some judgment and othering. kind of giving straight to DVD, straight to VHS. Don't judge it. Embrace it.

Today, romance novels are still largely marketed for women, but there is a growing number of gender non-conforming writers out there. Queer romance novels have existed for decades. They just haven't quite been marketed the same, much different than the recent reception of something like red, white, and royal blue, which is as mainstream as it gets, and gay, we're getting somewhere. So I want to talk about the culty lingo aspect that you've already been. teasing. Can you teach us a little bit of culty romance lingo and the role that it plays in this community?

So there is an entire vocabulary that romance readers, authors, and other people inside the genre use to discuss not only the plot points of a romance novel, but also the tools used to read them. So the tools? The tools? Like glasses or? More so whether or not you decide to continue reading or you finish like a DNF, a soft DNF, a hard DNF. Wait, what's a soft DNF? Soft DNF is when you put it away and you're going to come back to it later or your TBR, which is your to be read. So stuff like that. These are all terms used to read books mainly romance novels. And inside the cult of romance novels, I already talked about HEA, which means you're happily ever after. But you have your FMC and your MMC, which are your female main character and your male man character. You have dual

POV, which means you have multiple narrative voices. Oftentimes they alternate dual timeline, which means two interspersed timelines that go back and forth between present day and past tense. You allow your love interest. And of course, you have the spice meter system that talks about just how sexy the book gets. A lot of times people conflate spice and smut, but you've got to think about smut as being like the substance of a romance novel or an erotica, which erot. is within the umbrella of romance novels, but they are not one and the same. And then spice is like the seedings. So the spice is like something that's sprinkled on top. It's not the full meal. Oh my God. Okay. This is fascinating to me. I mean, obviously communities that could be considered

fringe or really insular, really passionate, tend to develop insidery language with acronyms and abbreviations. It builds solidarity. It makes everybody feel like they're part of an in-group. And sometimes it helps with understanding topics, but sometimes it doesn't describe anything that can't be said in plain English. It's like literally just there to create conformity. I understand and we'll get into like the tropes within romance novels that romance readers compared to any other type of reader are not only passionate about the books that they love, but passionate about classifying them and labeling them. Why do you think that is? And do you think there's a culty element to that? I think it's because for a long time, as you mentioned, people who had access to romance were shamed out of talking about it in public.

And so their interest in romance was explored only in silo. But now because of online romance spaces like book talk, bookstagram, booktube, romance-specific book clubs, and romance-specific book-cons and bookstores, community is forming in bigger and bigger numbers rapidly. And whenever you have something rise in popularity that fast, it helps to have shorthand to be able to talk about as much as you can as fast as possible. Oh, that's really interesting. I also think a lot of the acronyms and the flavor of the acronyms within this community, probably by no coincidence, remind me of a lot of the special terminology and acronyms that exist within the kink community. Absolutely. Like, I'm a user of the application field. Okay.

And you see things all the time on field like MMF, blah, blah, blah. And you'll see that too. And romance specifically in Smut, in spicy romance, you'll see terms like FF, MM, OWD, different types of BDSM and Kink. I learned so much about kink from reading romance. You learn about praise kink. You learn about daddy kink. You learn about degradation kink. These are all terms that are not going to be off-putting to, let's say, your average erotic

romance or dark romance reader. But I honestly am so deep in the cult as a reader that now that I'm an author, I forget that these aren't layman's terms. Yeah. Yeah. And I think in the king community, and it sounds like maybe in the romance community, terms like that, I mean, yes, they help you talk about it faster, but also like they help you talk about it in a way that feels more comfortable and more normal to people who know the terms. It's like this, if you know, you know kind of thing where we don't have to like fully spell out the like anatomical terms for these things like we can use euphemism so that we can feel more accepted but okay what you just said i'm so deep in the cult but you're speaking very positively about it i know you feel extremely positively about the romance community

so what do you mean by that when i say i'm so deep in the cult this is what i meant by this is an interesting time for you to have this conversation with me i've been reading romance ever since i was a young girl. I have read everything I can get my hands on. I read light, fluffy rom-coms, dark, smutty novellas. I read cowboy romance, hockey romance, mafia romance, romantasy, fantasy romance, historical romance. Like, you name it. I've read it. And for a long time, I feel like I have been a very active cult follower. And I feel like I can very much laugh with other members of the cult because I've indulged in culty experiences. Like what? Like what? I have reread interconnected Romantici series, taking notes, looking for Easter eggs,

and then listened to Theory Podcasts and then written down my own theories and then tried to convince other people to read them so we could share theories. I have paid up for like NSFW fan art accounts because I need more. I've been there. I've been in the hole. And I feel very seen when other people can laugh at how culty this behavior is because it consumes your life when you're in it. Oh my God, I love hearing this. It inspires multiple feelings in me. It inspires rubbernecking. Like, oh my God, there are so many ways to spend time. So I'm just like, please tell me what you do alone at home in your house. Be jealousy because I don't have anything like this. And I guess part of my attraction to this podcast week after week is like, I'm just looking for the cult for me. And then three, I'm just like, okay, but wait, when does the laughter turn into like evil villain cackling?

And that leads me to want to get into the next subject. So I keep alluding to being like scared of this readership. And I think it's partially because of the fringy zealotry of romance reader review culture, specifically on sites like good reads, which is, that's not even a word that I utter in my household. And storygraph are places in addition to social media where readers go to speak in unfiltered ways about the book. books that they love and hate, romance reviewing spaces have blown the hell up and really disrupted the power structure within publishing because there's so much word of mouth now online about like which books deserve attention and clout outside of like the gatekeeping that publishing marketers are responsible for and in charge of. And on these reviewing websites, like the positive thing is

that they're community builders. It's lovely to be able to talk passionately about the books that you're reading with others who are equally obsessed. But things can turn toxic with social media algorithms, especially as they reward negativity. I know that there are certain like goodreads, almost influencers who build cult followings on like bashing authors and sometimes authors can't handle it. But like maybe we also need to get certain people on Goodreads help. Because look, there are a lot of really high-temperature culty dynamics between authors and readers online. And sometimes it's over things that are so silly, just like differences in opinion about a book. For example, when romance writer Ali Hazelwood got tiniest violin ever canceled and bullied off social media for saying that she was Team Gale from the Hunger Games.

This was truly one of the most baffling things I've ever seen. So I will say quickly, I keep hinting at this. But the reason that it's so interesting that I'm talking about this right now is because I've been a romance reader my whole life, but I just debuted with my first ever romance novel. In the past, I have published two fiction novels, 100 other girls and the most famous girl in the world, both of which had romance subplots, but were not romances because they did not end in a happily ever after. Female fantasy, which came out about a month ago, is my first ever romance, and it is also a book about romance. It is a meta-narrative about romance. Kirkus Starred Review in case you'd like to know. Thank you very much. The best experience in the world, honestly, for me, was going from being a cult member to being one of the co-cult followers or co-cult leaders, I should say.

You identify that way now? I don't know if I identify it that way, but I experienced what I imagine real romance cult leaders experience. Who's a real romance cult leader? Like a very established romance author, like one of the top romance authors. Like Emily Henry? Emily Henry, yes, is definitely like a cult leader of the cult of romance novels. Okay, so you experienced a little bit of what you've been talking about, which is for the first time ever I published a book and experienced the blowing up of it online and like the videos and the discourse and the tags and the word of mouth organic zealotry that publishing has tried so hard to pay for but cannot be bought.

Yeah. Because paid reviews just don't work. People don't believe them. People don't want to watch them. It's just through sheer and utter enthusiasm. Grassroots passion. And I will say I like it so much better on the inside of this cult. There's a very big difference between romance readers and fiction readers in that I find romance readers are so unabashedly enthusiastic.

They are fan girls. Like they allow themselves to be so loud and excited about what they love to read. They do things like drive five hours to attend their favorite authors event. And then they talk to the other readers at the event and they form a group chat and they have a book club by next week. This is the kind of stuff that isn't happening in fiction because in my opinion, fiction readers have a lot more discernment. Like they are way less likely to want to seem like overly excited and passionate at a book event. They're much more reserved. You know, they're cool, calm, collected and they're a lot more critical.

Fiction readers are inherently critical of what they're reading. Okay, so this is just my observation. I've found that literary fiction readers are more critical of the actual craft, whereas romance readers are more critical of the author? Well, maybe. And that's an interesting way to interpret what I was going to say, which is they're more critical of like the characters as if they're real people. To me, from my observations, there's more of a breakdown between.

what's real and what's just like a piece of art? So I actually think what I said and what you said are connected because ultimately I have witnessed friends of mine who write romance get backlash because readers believe that choices that their characters made reflect their ethics or their opinions or how they live their lives or carry out their romantic relationships. There is a big, I believe, issue. you with parisocial connections within the romance community. And that is the dark underbelly of having that much passion and enthusiasm.

Yeah. One cannot exist without the other. Totally. There is this like fan girldom, this zealotry, this excitement, this real passion, which, I mean, again, it's unlike anything I've ever experienced. It is so wonderful to work so hard on something and then publish it and have people truly cry and scream and cheer you on. go out of their way to let you know how meaningful it was. But then the other side is once you're

put on that pedestal, it doesn't take much to fall. And then what we haven't said yet is sites like book talk threads, goodreads, story graph, all of these platforms that exist for book readers to share their opinions with other readers, which again, art reader specific spaces, not for authors. Negativity is often encouraged algorithmically. So like if you say something critical or you talk about the books you hated or you talk about a choice that you found to be problematic. And, you know, there are real reasons why a romance author will be quote unquote canceled for, you know, making a racial microaggression or for saying something bigoted or there are real issues within romance that we'll talk about. But something like Ali Hazelwood saying that she is

teen Gail being enough to now have all of her social media platforms being run by an assistant because she is like too afraid to go online. That's a big example of how a very low stakes hate train can then impact the long-term career of an established author. What do you think is like the mystical ingredient that makes the romance reader community like this for better and for worse? I think it's because the real magic of romance is that this is a genre that gives people hope. It makes people feel seen. It makes people feel connected. And romance isn't just an exploration of romantic love, but of familial love, platonic love, self-love. It's a human character study.

So a lot of people find a real sense of inner strength from reading romance. And once they tap into that, they start to reconsider what they deserve out of romantic relationships. They start to explore their own sexuality. They start to ask for more from the people in their lives. Wow. And they feel like they owe that in a lot of ways to the romance. genre and to the friendships, to the people, to the authors inside of it. So there is this sort of, in some ways, like codependency. Yeah. That said, I see it channeled for positivity way more

than it is for negativity, but like all online culty book spaces, things snowball very quickly. That's fascinating. So like romance texts more than literary fiction or, I don't know, like thrillers almost serve as not biblical scripture, but almost like a model on which one can base some of their life choices, which feels culty in a beautiful way and also kind of a delulu way. And I mean that respectfully and with love. Well, I think also romance can be two things at once. The world is on fire and people benefit from picking up something light and fluffy and hopeful to like make them feel something at the end of the day. And that's totally fine. I think that's why people are so quick to call romance an escapist genre. But the other side of romance is that

it's actually incredibly deep and inherently political. Something that I talk a lot about in my novel female fantasy is how interconnected romance novels actually are to our sex education system because the truth is sex ed in America is abysmal. And not only do we live in a botanical society, but it's getting worse. And very, very few states mandate medically accurate sex education. What does that mean? That means that while young men are learning about penetrative sex and like how to fulfill their sexual needs, I should say young straight cis men. They're also forming community around sex by talking about it with their friends, joking about jacking off and watching porn and locker room talk. Like that's all one bracket. At the exact same time,

women and marginalized people are feeling like extremely confused about. sex and relationships, extremely confused about erogenous zones, pleasure centers, sexuality, gender identity, consent, all of these things. And there's like no real way where they can go to get like accessible non-judgmental information. And if they outwardly display an interest in sex, they're slut shamed because women want to distance themselves as far as they can from sexual promiscuity because they're afraid that it will reflect on them. Like that's where the finger pointing of slut shaming comes from. So what happens is these children, become adults, they go into the world and

cis straight men carry this power, this confidence with them wherever they go, into boardrooms, into politics, into relationships. This fallocentric confidence. Yeah, completely. Like our phallic society,

which is... Even these microphones look like dicks. Yeah, say it. Before we started recording, I was just like, it would not be that hard to redesign microphones to look like vulvas.

I can imagine speaking into one. And that's what we're going to put all of our money into making the next sounds like a cult merch drop. Oh my God. You guys better buy it. But no, while this is happening, women and marginalized people are going out into the world, disenfranchised, and they have to seek out this information for themselves.

And what's the number one way that women and marginalized people have explored sex, love, dating, romance? It's been through female POVU. It's been through love stories about women, written by women, for other women. That's such a good point. Yeah. And, you know, for good and for ill, no one ever starts a cult explicitly to do wrong. Everyone thinks they're starting something that's going to change the world or solve some

culture-wide pain point or whatever. And the vulnerability that the cult of romance novels is promising and in some ways succeeding at remedying is, yeah, sexual confusion, dissatisfaction, harm, negligence, all of the things. And the passion that has emerged for these very politically relevant reasons obviously has its benefits, but it has led to some scammy scandals. So the cult of romance novels actually had its own version of Firefest. Do you know about this? Yes, I've heard. And honestly, there have been multiple instances of this. This might just be the biggest. I believe it. So the biggest instance was that in May 2025, not so long ago, Videos of a Romanticie book convention circulated online, and it was a sad, sad affair, my culties.

Authors paid hundreds to table and attend the event with reportedly about 100 people in attendance over two days. The event ended with an exclusive ball included in the $250 VIP ticket, which was just simply some scattered rose petals, a cash bar, a Bluetooth speaker, and bright overhead lights in a huge, convention room. It was giving Christian mixer. These people are supposed to know about mood lighting. Don't play with them like that. It was hilariously sad. And I think the way that Firefest was a reflection of the cult of the influencer industry, which is different in some market ways from the cult that we're addressing today. This was a reflection of the cult of the romance industry. Yeah, that was definitely difficult to watch. But since then, there have been a lot of really diverse, inclusive, well-run romance cons. And I have heard nothing but good things about those cons from

the authors and the readers that have attended them. Like, what cult doesn't have a fire fest in its back pocket? No, literally. But I'm just saying like another sort of notch in the bedpost of the romance novel world's like cultiness. Absolutely. I think like ultimately everything that romance has given this community, which is so unbelievably substantial, it's fodder for idolatry, adultery. Like, there's no way people could not act in a culty way when they feel like this is a genre of books that not only saved their lives and gave them a sense of hope and belonging and allowed them to heal from sexual trauma and explore their kinks, but also gave them community, gave them friendship, gave them their power back. The power that got diminished when they were young in their small towns, in sex education classes, they feel empowered reading. books that allow them to learn more about their bodies and themselves and then talking with

groups of other marginalized people about those things. But the flip side of that is whenever you would follow a group of people or a single author to the ends of the world, that's when you have to start asking yourself, well, how far would I actually go? Is this a live your life a watcherbagger? Get the fuck out. Exactly. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-on-one website platform to help entrepreneurs stand out and succeed online. So whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand, Squarespace makes it super easy to build a beautiful custom website, to connect with your audience, and to sell absolutely anything, from products to content, to even your valuable time. I am a longtime Squarespace user. If you go to Sounds Like a Cult.com,

you can witness it in all its glory. We just updated our Squarespace website with the new photos we took of all four of us hosts, including our brand new host. Come on. And updating the website is always super easy. I'm always so happy with how it turns out. And that is thanks to Squarespace features like their design intelligence, which combines two decades of industry-leading design expertise with cutting edge AI technology to help you build the website of your dreams that matches your brand and your aesthetic and your needs.

Squarespace payments also makes it easy to sell things online. And I also love that you can set up fundraisers on a Squarespace website if you are in a charitable phase of life. Head to Squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to Squarespace.com slash cult to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Using code cult. Okay. So can you talk about some of the culty exclusion that exists in this community? Like, who gets to have power?

Because for a long time, it was the big publishing establishment. What are the power dynamics within this world with regard to platforming diverse authors, you know, making sure that they're paid correctly, all of that. Well, publishing has always had a diversity problem, and that's definitely also true within the romance community. A big critique of the genre for a long time has been that has a lack of diversity, especially when it comes to race. Of course, there are so many diverse romance authors

and so many diverse romance novels that exist, but access to set novels has always been difficult, and who's to blame is something we should talk about that. So one thing is that the Romance Writers of America, which was a group made in 1980 to support writers and uplift the genre, filed for bankruptcy in 2024 after years of struggling over diversity and romance. And that group was actually co-founded by a black woman who left a few years after because of differences in visions.

Members of that group compared it to a sorority and said that there was a lot of mean girl behavior. I am not familiar with this group. I was never really involved in it. But just hearing those things, I am not necessarily surprised because it is such a fight to get resources and get marketing support and get reader attention on books. The hard part is not pitting ourselves against each other and staying focused on the mission. I mean, I think Romance Writers of America is a nonprofit. And like the nonprofit world is like famously culty.

Yeah. We did that episode back in the day in 2022. I actually, I listened to it recently. Oh, my God. Another story is that in 2019, the president of romance writers for America, same group, was suspended for criticizing how an author betrayed a Chinese woman. Stories like this pop up a lot in the romance community, just arguments about how diversity is described on the page.

But anyway, these descriptions were racist, but the ethics board didn't like that the president who was a Chinese American author had criticized another author. And then basically, one thing led to another and a member told NBCN, news that the group was a woman-dominated organization, that there was a culture value and be nice, don't rock the boat, and don't cause controversy. There's still a long, long way to go in terms of championing diversity in publishing and within the romance genre. The Rip Bodice, which is an indie romance bookstore based in L.A. and Brooklyn. I actually did my book launch at the Rit Baudits this year. It is iconic. Definitely like a cult hub.

Yeah, cult. Yeah, and a very culty thing about romance novels is now there are romance-only bookstores popping up all over the globe. But they published a diversity report and said that since 2016, they've looked at how many books were published by BIPOC authors. And the latest report found that only 11% of books were published by people of color within the romance genre. That's not surprising to me at all. As a romance author of color myself, I know that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of incredibly talented romance authors of color and marginalized romance authors who are brilliant and writing popular books.

The issue is systemic, like many issues are. These stories and these authors are oftentimes given smaller advances. They're given smaller marketing budget. which means it's harder to get the word out about their books or they're pushed less when it comes to distributors, which means that their books aren't stocked in stores like Barnes & Noble or independent bookstores. And the reason behind this is because the industry is concerned that diverse stories are considered niche narratives that like mainstream audiences won't be able to relate to. It's so hypocritical because this is the same industry in which writing

advice number one is like relatability lies in specificity. Yep. To me, I am haunted, hunted by the story that Roxanne Gay was paid $15,000 to write bad feminist. Yeah, but I'm again, like, I'm not surprised by that because you have to think about the same group of like 10 white old men in the room doing risk assessment around their budgets. And ultimately it trickles down and impacts everyone at every level of publishing. Like, we're not even going to talk about. like unionizing today, that's a whole other issue. But ultimately, I hear all the time as a romance reader and as a romance author that the same 10 book talk titles, the same 10 authors get pushed in front of every single romance reader. And these are usually white, straight,

cis, able-bodied romances written by own voices by authors of that same identity structure. And so they have to then go out of their way to seek out. diverse romance. Again, this isn't accidental. It's because publishers are often worried that they won't have an opportunity basically to prove themselves. The only reason that a diverse author is able to get gain access to these resources is once they've already proved themselves. But what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Like how can they... Such a catch 22. Yeah, it's a catch 22. But great example is that heated rivalry, which is a MM gay hockey romance, extremely popular series written by Rachel Reed that was just adapted by Canada's Crave and

picked up by HBO. I watched the first episode the other day in a hotel room. I was, what? What? So like that's my cult. That's all I'm thinking about that now, even though I'm here. I'm watching an edit in my mind of heated rivalries set to reputation. You're like, I'm on autopilot here today. No, I'm, I will check my phone. I'll have five texts from people saying I started heated rivalry because of you, because I can't shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I was told to watch it on like a sapphic night out.

And I obviously, immediately, I do what I'm told. And I like, I'm a good follower. Yeah, no, when it comes to like sexy gay premium drama series, like sign me up. Yeah, you're locked in. I'm so locked in. And thank God I was alone while I was watching this thing because I was like, oh. It is unbelievably smutty. And the director said, not to be confused with spicy.

Not to be confused with spicy because then actually. actual act of having sex from start to finish is on page and on screen. It's incredible. I was laughing because my friend shout out Jen Winston who wrote the book Greedy, which is like a bisexual essay collection. She said, anyway, she told me to watch it and she was like, it's the most satisfying thing. The two main characters will like start to kiss and then there will be a cut and you'll be like, oh no, I wanted to see what happened next. But then they like cut to the bed. Yeah, exactly. It's a cut to the actions. It's like cut to the basilisk tongue. Yeah, exactly. There is no basilisk in this show just you know, it's gay hockey players. More culty lingo for you in romance. We have open door romance,

closed door romance and fade to black romance. Heated rivalry is an open door romance, which means like you see everything and there's hard CK cock. So. Okay. So I'm not, thank you for saying cock. Moving on how what I'm this, I'm not buying that like all of this shorthand was just created so like all the romance people could talk about it easier like why all the taxonomy well you know a lot of it has its roots in fan fiction and i think that again like fan fiction which is in its own cult was created so that people of marginalized identities especially queer people could like write themselves into stories and feel like they're part of narratives so i mean maybe part of it is you know this is our space and this is our language and i i was reminded

of this recently at my own book launch where I was in conversation with red white and royal blues author Casey McQuiston and they were asking me this or that romance trope romance lingo rapid fire questions and I would say 90% of people in the audience had no idea what was going on I've never seen my mother look more confused in her life oh my gosh she looked scared genuinely scared and that woman escaped a revolution so I was a little concerned so you got some perspective on your own so I know it's culty But it's exactly like everything else in romance. I think the roots of it were like we're escaping persecution, like the roots of it or because we are finally trying to create safe spaces to like heal and learn and explore. But now we could have an entire conversation and only use acronyms and no one would know what we were talking about.

If that is not the cultiest summary, I don't know what is. Yeah. Yeah. I will say heated rivalry, which was adapted from Rachel Reed. best-selling MM Hockey Romance series into a blockbuster. Everyone's talking about it, extremely graphic, sensual, full of yearning HBO show. It didn't receive a re-release reprint from Harlequin. Every single popular book that gets adapted usually gets a reprint with a movie poster, TV show poster. Yeah, of course. And that's beneficial for both the publisher and the

author because anyone who loves the movie or TV show series will then be extremely quick to go and buy the book to see what they're missing. Yes. I don't want to incorrectly identify who the publisher was here, but I know Harlequin published Heated Rivalry and they didn't anticipate this queer story having a big enough audience. I fucking, dude, the publishing industry is so dumb. It hurts me so much. It makes me so angry.

You can't order it on the Arlican website. It's backlisted on Amazon on Barnes & Noble. That's so fucked up. It's not in any single indie bookstore. Libraries, it's the waitlists are out of control. The only way that you can read the number one show in America right now. You need to pirate it. No, you have to pirate it, which please don't pirate your books.

Yeah, don't pirate books. Or you have to get it on Kindle. Empowering the cult of Amazon. Which is empowering the cult of Amazon. But the TLDR is an author like Rachel Reed is losing. thousands and thousands of dollars. And that's because, again, it all goes back to the systemic issue, which is that publishing has always been very, very scared to bet on diverse romances. Yeah. Oh my God. I'm so fucking horrified. Thank you for spelling that out. God, bless you for

analyzing this cult for me. I'm still scared of it, but I understand it better. And I think now is the perfect time to get into our interview. Today we are so excited to be talking to Alexa Martin, the USA Today bestselling author of romance and women's fiction novels. Alexa has some culty overlap with the cult of Swifties and she is here to help us better understand the contours of this cult. I just have to open with the following. We recorded our intro to this episode like a month ago. Truly. Never in Sounds like a cult history has my relationship to the cult of the week changed so dramatically between the time when we did. I was thinking about that because you and I kind of had a little banter about heated rivalry and since. A little banter. I would say since then

the extent to which we have discussed heated rivalry has upshot what 110%? Okay. So I'm actually getting a heated rivalry flash tattoo in two weeks. Say more. Are you? getting a loon? No, no. That was on the like little page. Okay. But I'm getting gimmee kiss. Gimmy keys. Oh my gosh. I die. I'm so excited. Gimmy keys tramp stamp. Should I? Yes. Do I dare? Yes. So the point is Alexa that I didn't understand this cult literally at all when we recorded our intro because this isn't my literary world. If I may, if that's okay. But I now, I now. I now. I'm dipping my ass in and the water's warm. You're submerged, I'd say.

Actually, the water's cold. You're cold. Give me keys. Sorry. I'm just, I'm so in it. I started listening to Rachel Reed's series on audio. I've never done such a thing. No, it's because you need more.

You have a craving. You can't be satiated. Can I just say, and let me open with, this is a question for both of you. I don't identify as a prude. I live a life, but I am scandalized by reading the word. cock. So that's actually something that goes away the more you do it. Sure, desensitization. It's an

exposure mechanism. I see. Yeah. But that's also something that if you look online is one of the kind of discourses of like what people will call it. Like what are the words that they use for genitals, right? Like there's the purple pros like throbbing member doing like all those things. Like which is the good one and which is it. And there is some discourse around cock. Yeah. Okay. And I think certain. types of language appeal to certain types of readers. Like some people want something a bit more clean, closed door, a little bit more of an illusion, and other people want it spicy, smutty, open door as hard C. K. Koch can be delivered.

See, like, I didn't even blink. No. You haven't blinked since we began recording. So, anywho, I'm learning. And I'm also, well, I'm about to write a sort of spicy book myself. It's not a romance novel, and it doesn't, as a. I've learned meet the requirements to be considered romance because no spoilers, but like, it doesn't necessarily end well for anyone. Yeah. We've got a love story on our hands. Sort of. But I'm now having to think about like, how am I going to describe these acts? I've written sex scenes before, but they were like, I don't know. Never mind. This isn't about me. Alexa, welcome to Sounds like a

cult. Thank you so much for having me. It has been a long journey and I'm so happy I'm finally here. It really has. Could you introduce yourself for our listeners and explain your relationship to the cult of romance novels, dare I say? Yes. So my name is Alexa Martin. I am a romance author and reader. I started as a reader. I never actually thought I would really write. And then an idea came to me and I actually hid in my basement and started writing. Like I didn't even tell my husband. He was like, what are you doing in the basement? I was like, she can't know. And so I started writing. It took me like four years to write my first book. And I've just been kind of luckily, thankfully, been able to publish them ever sense. Yeah, I think what are you doing in the basement is actually a start to a lot of

really great. Yeah. It's going to be. Romance, who knows, which is she writing a romance novel? Is she starting a conspiracy theory? Is she, like, building a weapon? And there's the Venn diagram there where the two worlds meet. Speaking of which, do you think that tropes contribute to the cult of Romance, specifically how people only read nowadays for trope versus for the actual plot or story. I think everybody with romance has their like gateway drug in what gets them in. So right now, heated rivalry is like where you're getting in. So if you find a book that resembles that, you'll probably read it. I think it's more of you're figuring out what you like.

And you've got a craving for a trope sometimes. And like you'll be in like a enemies to lovers phase. And then maybe you'll read something in that book that's a different trope. and then you'll kind of jump onto that. I think that's the best thing about romance is there's so many options and so many different things to read about. Yeah, absolutely. I was really surprised I did a reading earlier this week and I asked the audience,

who here is a romance reader? I got maybe two hands up. I asked who here is obsessed with heated rivalry, full room cheered. I realize that people don't realize that they are engaging in romance, but we've got our claws in them and we're going to open up our world. Oh my God. It's hard to get out. It's a cult that's hard to escape.

Yes, but the funny thing about just the way that I hear romance authors in particular talk about this world, it's very careful. And I don't want either of you to endanger yourselves. But I don't think any other author in any other genre is quite as delicate with their readership as romance authors are. And there is a culty undercurrent to that dynamic. And Alexa, I was wondering if you could talk about like the relationship between those who actually write the biblical scripture and the followers who appear to have more power than anything I've seen in other literary genres. And I'm really curious. Like, do you think that romance authors are the leaders of the cult or are the readers, the actual leaders or the publishers? Oh, well, that's all other.

over. I feel like the readers have a lot of power. I think we're so careful because it does feel like a genre that gets very easily and often disrespected. And so I feel like we have to be careful about how we talk about it because we don't want to like invite that in or kind of spur it on. And we try to respect our readers who love it. Romance readers read so much compared to like other genres. Romance readers are always like, I read 150 books and people like, no, you didn't. But like, they do. We read a lot. Because even though I write rom-coms, so my books go down pretty easily, but there's still usually heavier topics in them. So it's one of those things where you could read about a heavier topic, but there's a safety in it to where, like, you know what's going to end with a happily ever after.

And so it's easy to read. And we respect that like those readers, it's never like you're fighting for readers as much because just because they read one author, really, that probably means they're going to read you as well. So you just want to respect everybody's like care and love and taste for the genre. I'm like really digging here for someone to be like, yeah, I'm terrified of the readers, but no one will say it. I think that there's a lot of love and respect and compassion within the romance community because everyone feels a little trauma bonded. Totally. And like this is culty, but maybe not in a nefarious or exploitative way. When a group of people is marginalized, ostracized, regarded as weird and strange and fringy and has like unorthodox beliefs, often they are.

regarded as a cult, whether or not they are committing any harm or there's power abuse within the group itself. But, I mean, surely there is drama within the romance community. There's a lot. And it's usually around like certain things. Like with the heated rivalry, right? Now there's just like, hey, don't go to hockey games and harass the players. Right. There's been like drama in the past of people going and really crossing the line of having fun in fiction and books to sexual harassment. There was a dark fantasy conference and some readers put a tracker on the male model. It got like really intense. I think most of the drama though is based around like the respect and boundaries and consent, which is a really big thing in the genre as well. Absolutely. And speaking of all of the

conferences that you mentioned, do you think that there are actually financial costs of committing fully to the cult of romance? I think there can be if you're going to all the conferences. However, I was a reader long before as a writer, and I never went to a conference, and I still felt very involved in the community. So I think it's how far you want to go. And then like a lot of the conferences, it depends on how deep within the cults and probably like subgenre, but there's the financial cost of books. Books can be very expensive. It's true. Especially in the age of sprayed edges and special editions, collector items. Like I feel as if the financial cost of being a true romance fan. Girl has gone up even in the last five to ten years. Yeah. And now there's romance bookstores popping up everywhere as well. So you're going to those and maybe paying extra to go to a book bedazzling night, which feels just like, I mean, I love like crafty and it feels like fun community, but there is the price of it if you're really getting involved. The world has just opened up so much and even just as a new fan or like a romance curious person, I already feel pressure to prove myself. I mean,

I'm about to get a $150 heated rivalry tattoo. And that's a bit and it's for fun. But it's also like, look how much of a fan I am. I need you to ask me to get this tattoo with you. I'm waiting for you to propose to me. Please. The only reason I didn't is because it's in Los Angeles. But like, please book a flight.

It's a little far. Speaking of God. Speaking of God. Well, I mean, this is interesting because it's like this particular cult and scare quotes feels swiftly coded to me, like, but I think the Swifty cult is obviously more mainstream. And so there are a lot more ways to spend money and have that like culturally justified and approved of, you know, whereas probably someone who's totally outside of this subculture would think I'm insane. Well, I think what the Swifties and romance readers have in common as cults is that they're mainly

made up of like majority straight, cisgendered women. Well, there are a lot. of marginalized romance readers, but they're associated, let's say, with like, straight, cisgendered women who have often felt like ostracized or belittled for liking what they like. And so that they both feel very much indignant and passionate about their fan girling, whether it's for romance or for Taylor Swift, because they've had to remain steadfast in their passion regardless of how much the world treats them as if they're trivial. I think that's the real connection. Yeah, it's like cults are often formed in Mercant.

response to a problem in society, whether it's racism or financial hardship or a loneliness epidemic. And this feels like a cult, if you will, that has formed in response to misogyny stereotypes about women, young women in particular being ditsy or not as smart, educated, worthy of power and authority, that sort of thing. Well, speaking of Taylor Swift, you may have predicted the Travis' romance novel-worthy love story if the rumors are I have gotten some credits and I don't know whether or not I should take it or not. Can you explain? Because I wasn't totally tuned into this. So my first series was a football series. My husband played in the NFL for eight years.

And so my first books were kind of based in that world. And in my second book, the main character's name is TK. And as I was writing in that book, I found Travis Kelsey and he was kind of my character inspiration in the book. And so since I already had my Travis Kelsey romance novel, also I love Taylor Swift and her music. That book was published, I think, in 2018, so long before. And I was just like, listen, I have been preaching to the cults of Travis Kelsey for a very long time. And I think I should get some recognition. And I'm glad that everybody has caught up. Okay.

And Alexa, since you are a resident expert, then, do you think that Travis and Taylor are endgame? I mean, I hope so. I would not put that out there if I didn't either. But like, I mean, they're engaged. They seem very happy. So I hope so. I hope for both of them that it's what it seems to everybody else. We got to meet back here for the cult of celebrity weddings.

Oh. Oh my God. That's great. That's actually a wonderful suggestion. I love that. I have kind of like a question that I feel like will reflect poorly on me, but that's fine because I'm new to this world and whatever. If people come from me, I'm comfortable with it.

There does seem to be a stereotype among outsiders looking in that a lot of romance writers are like not that sexually active. Is that something people say? I think they say that about readers too. Like, oh, they're just these like horny, lonely. Yeah. Don't shoot the messenger. I've heard people in the wild kind of like whisper this.

What do you make of this? I feel like I've heard opposite with my friends who are readers where people are like, oh, so you've tried this position where they make it like we're super hypersexualized? I don't know. I've been married to my husband for so long. So nobody's ever really asked me how my sex life. I mean, I guess that makes sense to hear where people are like, oh, they're living in this like fantasy. But then I feel like more often than not, I hear the other where people just think all we think about is sex and we're just like having crazy wild sex all the time. I think maybe people are just, and I would fall into this category. People are just like confounded

by this genre. Yeah, I mean, until they're bitten by the book. Until they're bitten by the gunner. No, it makes perfect sense. And, like, there are so many types of readers and writers, but I think people who are not yet bitten or have that conversion moment, as we say in cold discourse, then you might theorize about who these people are and, like, what makes them the way they are? And the truth is, like, this is a billion dollar industry. There are millions and millions of romance readers.

I don't think they exist within a monolith. Your school librarian might be a romance reader, but also the most popular girl at the lunch table might also be a romance reader. One of those people might be pulling. And one of those people might not. It might not be the one who expects. Absolutely. And one of them is reading like dark erotica and the other one's reading a fluffy rom-com.

Yeah. And you have no idea. Oh my God. I think maybe I'm like a fluffy rom-com. That's what you think now. Okay. No, you're right. I'm going to slip and slide by the way down.

You're too early on your journey. I'm too early. I can't make the call. Alexa, we would love to play a quickie little game with you. It's just a simple. would you rather cult of romance novels edition? The rules, I think, are self-explanatory and the first round goes like this.

Would you rather find yourself in a quintessential romance trope any time you meet a new person? Like, oh my God, here we go again. Friends to lovers. Be cute. Or realize all your hobbies are gateways to cults. I mean, I feel like right now all of my hobbies are gateway to cult anyways. Oh my God, like what?

That's what it feels like. But actually, no, I do love the trope. If I could do the tropes, there's so many, too. It just, it would be never-ending. There's end-less opportunities. Yeah, so true. What's your favorite trope? Can I ask Alexa?

I mean, well, like, micro-trop, like, I love a, there's only one bed, right? Like, they're stuck somewhere and they check into a hotel and, oh, no, there's only one bed. I love that. I love an enemies to lovers. But I really love, like, writing Second Chance romance a lot. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

That's my love story. Yeah, you are a second chance romance. I married my high school fling who dumped me over AIM because he told me I was too grown up for him. Yeah, I'm friends to lovers. I knew my husband for three years before I really knew him. Anyway, love that. Switching gears, would you rather be a part of an Omegaverse or take part in a culty sex ritual? Oh my God, Omegaverse, I think.

Wait, what is that? So the Omegaverse has to do with like, werewolf hierarchy. It's a part of the Shifter romance, subgenre of romance, very popular on AO3. And it has to do with the alpha, the omega, and the Sigma. And their anatomy is like specifically designated for having sex with people within the pack. I don't think that we have time to go over nodding in this podcast.

But when we get our matching tattoos, I'd be happy to explain it to you. Oh my God. That will be a thrill. No one asked, but occulty sex ritual, I'm like waiting to take part. It is like, why haven't they found me yet? I know. I'm here. I'm waiting. I'm asking. I know. I've been like that signaling for years. But it's so funny. Meanwhile, Alexis, like, I have been waiting to become an omega for ages. I can't wait to learn more about what that signifies. What that means. Okay. Last would you rather, would you rather, would you rather get into a debate with a hardcore romance reader about why their favorite author is actually problematic. Or get into a debate with a Swifty about Taylor not actually being a songwriting genius. Oh my, my.

Both sounds detrimental to my health. Minded bond. And your safety. I think probably a romance reader of a problematic author, though. That feels easier than like judging somebody's taste, probably. Yeah. Fair. What if you had to argue the author?

opposite, that like someone was swearing that the author was problematic and you were defending that they weren't. Oh, I'm logging off the internet. You're deleting all your IP and you're moving to a cave. I'm talking to my weighted blanket in hiding. Oh, good. Wow. Alexa.

That's all our questions. That is our game. Thank you so much for being here on Sounds like a Cult. If people want to keep up with you, your work and your prophecies, where can they do that? You can find me on Instagram at Alexa M. Books. I have a new book coming out in May. In my last book, I came out, which I listened to you a lot for How to Sell Romance, which was kind of a romance meets M.L. So like kind of cults intersecting. That's out now. Amazing. We cannot wait to check that out. That sounds perfect. Thank you. People are either like,

that's fun or you did what? So I'm fun. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Okay, Amon, out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out. Which do you think the cult of romance novels falls into? This might not come as a surprise, but I think the cult of romance novels is a live your life. Yeah. I think that romance readers are operating from a place of joy. They want to heal and find community. And in the end of the day, the world is burning around us.

who doesn't want to feel a shred of hope with happily ever after? Well, when you put it that way. Yeah, I mean, some of the examples that Alexa mentioned but didn't dwell on of stalking, getting, you know, a little too lost in the lore, not realizing that maybe we should keep this in the fictional part of our brains and lives, that feels a little scary. That feels like cult fandom gone wrong. that makes me feel like there is a halo of wash your back.

Emineting from the living of your life from the skies. Emineting from the throbbing member of this group. But overall, you're probably right. We have covered recent cults like Maga Wives and Anti-Vaxers, and I'm looking at our list of groups we're excited to cover later this year, and I'm just like, it feels irresponsible. to classify this as a live your life. But remember, keep things on the page and not off it.

Remember that just because someone may serve as inspiration for your favorite fancast doesn't mean that you have license to send them creepy DMs over Instagram. That's a really helpful reminder. Well, that is our show. Thanks so much for listening. Join us for a new cult next week. But in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty.

Sounds Like a Colt was created by Amanda Montel and hosted by Amanda Montel, Reese Oliver, Chelsea Charles, and Amon Haririya. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. Additional research for this episode by Lexi Peary. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it five stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book, Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, The Age of Magical Oversthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality, and Wordslet, a Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language.

Thanks as well to our network studio 71. And be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds Like a Cult pod, or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad-free at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult.