Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Spiritual Scammers

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

Time to spill some never-before-heard culty tales: This week, Amanda and Isa are reacting to shocking cult stories submitted by you listeners! Many thanks to those who wrote in to share their personal brushes with New Age scams, love-bombing strangers, elementary school rituals that seem sus in retrospect, and more. Traditional religion may be on the decline, but our cravings for meaning and magic are stronger than ever, which isn't necessarily a bad thing... that's why we're here to determine whether your culty experiences were a Life Your Life, a Watch Your Back, or GTFO!  To support Sounds Like A Cult on Patreon, keep up with our live show dates, see Isa's live comedy, buy a copy of Amanda's book Cultish, or visit our website, click here! Or follow us on IG @soundslikeacultpod @isaamedinaa @amanda_montell Thank you to our sponsors! New customers get $5 off a Lume Starter Pack with code CULT at LumeDeodorant.com Go to betterhelp.com/cult to get 10% off your first month Dipsea is offering our listeners a 30 day free trial when you go to dipseastories.com/cult

New York City, it's Esa here. I am back in town and I'm going to be headlining Union Hall once again on, wait for it, Friday, September 22nd at 7pm. I am so excited to be back in New York. This show is going to be so special, so fun. I'm going to be joined by very special guests and I have a lot of new material. I have a lot to talk about. It's going to be a really funny show. You do not want to miss it. You can get tickets at the link in episode description or at my website, which is isacomedy.com slash shows. That's ISA comedy.com slash shows. And if you're not in New York, you can go to that same website to tell me where to perform next. That's isacomedy.com slash shows, babe. And if you are in New York, I will see you at the show September 22. Thank you to our sponsor, Loom. I'm so excited to tell you about Loom's whole body deodorant for pits, privates, and beyond. Loom starter

pack is perfect for new customers. It comes with a solid, stick deodorant, cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice, like mini body wash and deodorant, cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice, like mini body wash and deodorant wipes, and free shipping. As a loom special offer for listeners, new customers get $5 off a loom starter pack with code cult at loomdeodorant.com. That's code cult at loomdeodorant.com.

Thank you to our sponsor, Dipsy. Dipsy is an app full of hundreds of short, sexy audio stories designed by women, for women, for listeners of the show. Dipsy is an app full of hundreds of short sexy audio stories designed by women for women. For listeners of the show, Dipsy is offering an extended 30-day free trial when you go to DipsyStories.com slash cult. That's 30 days of full access for free when you go to DIPSEAStories.com slash cult. DipsyStories.com slash cult. The show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

Whether you're dealing with decisions around career relationships or anything else, therapy helps you stay connected to what you really want while you navigate life. Let therapy be your map with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash cult today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com slash cult. The views expressed on this episode,

as with all episodes of Sounds Like A Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable facts. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Sometimes people stay in cults because they're ashamed to admit that they were wrong. Yeah. And I never realized how by talking about everyday cults, we are kind of like dismantling that shame.

Truly, like, this podcast can be cheeky and whatever, but what we're ultimately really trying to say is that cult-ish influence spares no one. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults. We all follow. I'm Ysumidina and I'm a comedian. I'm Amanda Montel, author of the book Cult-ish. Every week on our show, we discuss a different

zeitgeist group that puts the cult in culture from Disney adults to academia to try and answer the big question. This group sounds like a cult, but is it really Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god.

Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god.

Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Yeah, people did not like that. And I was like, you know what? You spoke, we listened. This is a conversation between two gals pretending to have a conversation. That turns into a conversation that turns into a cult. Loki. Yeah. I was actually watching our girly, normal gossip on IG, and she posted about how like she's not not starting a discord and I was like, wait, we should start one for our listeners.

That is truly the next step. And that is actually the next step into like how cult start. But it's like fun. It's like when we had our live show in LA and London, everyone met and that's how people like create community. It's my new life.

I agree, I agree, but if we're starting an actual cult, I would rather it be in person. I'm trying to spend less time on the internet. Like I would rather do a moon circle in a field. We wouldn't be on the disk or you would just like create it and then people would chat amongst themselves. Have fun kids. Gotcha.

What do you guys think? I mean, let us know. So today's episode is working a little differently. We posted a call on our Instagram asking u-listeners to write in a personal experience from your life with a group that sounds like a cult, and we're going to share those stories now and discuss them in real time to try and determine whether they're a live your life, a watch your back, or a get the fuck out level cult.

For our new listeners, a live your life level cult is like a baby cult, definitely fanatical, but mostly harmless. A watch-your-back level cult is borderline dangerous, checks off some of the culty boxes, but isn't totally destructive. And then we have a get the bug out level cult, which is like QAnon level, Mance and Bives, aka Mane for your life. After all, what classifies a cult is up to interpretation. So it's getting personal, it's getting juicy. It's story time, cozy, and- And in this bonus content, unless you guys disagree,

I'm not gonna cut out my chewing. You're just gonna get the raw, doggying of me eating while we record, which is always happening. You're like, do as I say, not as I do, because he's a hate's chewing more than anything on this earth, and the way that I hate overhead lighting. Yeah, I hate chewing so much.

I got an ad the other day for like special ear plugs that help with little sounds, but still let you listen in on conversations. It's called misophonia, one in 200 people have it. Amanda loves to open a little can of bubbly water. Yeah, and just... And... Pfft.

Yeah. Like a little lizard. It's too much. A little lizard at a creek. I've gotten better at telling people to shut the fuck up. Anyway, so we're gonna read these listener submitted stories of cultish experiences that you've had. And we're, ooh, we're really excited.

I'm wearing slippers. I have a little glass of wine. I'm ready. Me too. Let's get into it. OK. Our first story is from Isabel. And she said right at the top, TLDR.

I was invited to leave Planet Earth and join a new society on a new planet. Yes. This isn't a G-T-F-O. Da, da, da. Hey, you said Amanda. My name is Izzy from Hamilton, Ontario. Izzy, which was your nickname in middle school.

That was my nickname in middle school because I was ashamed of my name, Issa. But then I started to go by Issa in college because my roommate heard my parents call me Issa, Issa, and then she was like, Okay, pop off. Anyway, yes, origin story. We love and Izzy. So she says, my name is Isy from Hamilton, Ontario, hashtag Canada. My cold story is that one time I was at a cafe working on a school assignment when a sweet older gentleman sitting near me

asked me what I was studying. I told him I was studying fine art and psychology. He told me he had recently retired from teaching at the university. We shared a nice long conversation about politics, art, sociology and climate change. He was such an interesting man. He had a beautiful insight on life, had stories from traveling the world, having raised his children in India and spent a decade teaching in the UK before he wound up back in Canada.

I found myself completely enthralled by what he was saying. I didn't notice the hours go by. Eventually, the cafe was closing up, he thanked me for the chat, and I sincerely thanked him too. He turned to leave, but then paused at the door and returned to me at my table. With an eerily calm, yet urgent tone, he explained to me that human time on this planet is limited. Sure. We're destroying our beloved Earth, little by little, and we have to make a move to a new planet

before she burns, okay? Earth is a woman. A hot pot. God and Earth, mother Earth, hello. Of course, Earth is a woman, cause she's like, global warming, psych, it's actually climate change. It is gonna be really cold and really hot.

It's actually Earth going through metapause. That is why earth is a woman. And that's why it's climate change, not global warming. Oh, actually fun fact about that. The reason why planets and large ships and hurricanes and stuff like that are always referred to with she, her pronouns is because the patriarchy frames seemingly chaotic,

dangerous entities meant to be conquered and seaged as inherently feminine. Oh, okay. So she said he said, we are destroying our beloved Earth, little by little, we have to make a move to a new planet before she burns. He then told me we have another option.

There is another planet, but there is limited space and we're running out of time. He handed me a business card with nothing other than a number and said, call us. I just pictured the number being like one, two, three, or... At first I was confused, then I thought it was a joke, but when I looked back at him I could see that he was serious. He left and I at once felt scared, confused, and also somewhat flattered that I had been invited to an exclusive opportunity. That is what they want you to feel. Exactly. I obviously never called seeing as I'm still here, but I sometimes wonder if I'll regret this someday.

Duh, duh, duh. Just kidding. I'd rather go down this ship. Ship being our planet, not a spaceship. Thanks for reading, Isabel. Oh yeah. Damn. I mean, who among us has not had an experience? Like this, it kind of reminds me there's there's a guy who sits outside. Well, but maybe it depends whether or not you're open to striking up a conversation with strangers. There's a guy in Silver Lake and you know, our neighborhood who sits outside of yummy.com, which is like a local grocery store. He kind of looks like an aging hippie. He's got like long white hair, long white beard.

He is always burning incense. He sits under this little sun umbrella, parasol. He's always wearing a polo. Quick question, is he like an unhoused person? Okay, so it was unclear. You can never really tell someone's story from the outside. He seemed to be kind of like a fixture of the neighborhood. He was always chatting with someone.

Definitely had a lot of the new age energy that you encounter frequently in Southern California. Yeah. He's really friendly, really congenial. He always shouts out our dog whenever my boyfriend I walk past. He calls our dog Santa Claus. He's like, what's up Santa Claus? Nice to see you Santa Claus. That's so funny. But anyway, finally one day, like I went in to get some food. And when I came out, Casey was sort of breaking away

from a conversation with him. He put in a lot of time having small talk with us over months and months and months, if not years. And then finally, when Casey was willing to chat with him more at length, he told him that he was a part of this group that was, you know, like searching for Enlightenment and whatever, but using a lot of euphemisms and he gave cases of horror and horror.

He didn't know who he was talking to the first time I'm called to the first time. I know, I know. And so it's just like, oh, dang it. It's like, why does intellectual exchange either have to happen in a library at Oxford University or in a library at Oxford University or in a cult? Like God damn it. Yeah.

And that actually is such a sneaky way to like get a stranger to listen to what you're saying because like having a conversation at length where they don't say anything crazy, where they talk about intellectual things, you start to trust somebody. You're like, oh, this person is well-traveled and educated and like, I don't know, that sounded like really like, classist, that's not how I meant it, but like, for Isabelle's story, it was like that. It seems like someone who you would wanna be

aligned with who you wanna know. When do we truly have a random conversation with a stranger in a public place anymore that is not like frightening or jarring. I feel like it's becoming an increasingly rare experience. Yeah. I heard of this. I forgot what it's called, but it's this ring that they're trying to start a movement

around the world where it's like a $20 ring and it just looks in a particular way. If you wear it, it means you're like single and open to talking to strangers. So it's like a signal to people at a bar that they can like walk up to you. Which I actually really like. Yeah, have you heard of the Hidden Hearts Queer Event in LA? It's like a event for queer women. It's like you go to a party, actually didn't know

that these were the rules of the party the first time I went. But it's like a queer event in LA where you're supposed to put on a sticker that's one of four colors. They're heart-shaped. And like black means I'm taken, white means I'm open to friends, red means I'm looking to hook up. And then like, you know, it's like in blaring means I'm hoping to join a call.

But like a sticker, it's like what are we in like an after school program for hooking up? I know. Well, I think we're so, we so, we're so rusty at human connection as a species. We really are. That we are the toddlers of human connection where we do need stickers once again. We've progressed, we've fucking regressed, and there are just so many people.

We get choosers, paradoxes, we're like, who am I supposed to be a friend, who am I supposed to date? It's too much. So we need constraints like that. And this is why cults are so rampant in the digital age and the pandemic era because people are so isolated,

but they still crave belonging. So they become radicalized in cells on forechan or anti-vaxx newagers in secret Facebook groups or just more extreme Swifties. And meanwhile, we've lost the thing. that's supposed to come most naturally to us, which is our ability to connect in person. We're kind of afraid of each other in a way. And that makes us all vulnerable to the kind of influence in Izzy's experience.

This is a very, very classic story of someone creating an amazing impression, you know, bestowing you with love and attention. It's the love bombing, right? I mean, it sounds like this guy hadn't, totally mastered the nuances of cult recruitment, but they bait and switch until you need to come to another planet in the style of martial apple white of heaven's gate, but also Elon Musk.

Yeah, and the fact that he like, very, it sounds like he very intentionally like, walked away and then very intentionally like, paused and like the way she described it that he like calm yet urgently like turned around and was like actually I have something else to tell you. That is gonna make the hairs on your arm stand a little bit and like get your attention. So I don't know what do you think though it is. I feel like Isabel got the fuck out because she never called the number. Yeah, I mean any group with such strategic recruitment techniques like that and such outlandish supernatural beliefs. Those are some of the most extreme red flags that we see, so I would call to get the fuck out. Oh, that's true.

Yeah, that's true because I forgot that who was the first person that talked to who. He striked up a conversation with her. Of course. Of course. And so that is how they get you. Oh my God, I feel like I'm susceptible to this. When people want to talk to me, like a random stranger,

just pretending that they care about what I'm doing, I'm like, who me? Because we're starved for that type of connection. I mean, there is a cult for everyone and straight up, if someone came up to me and wanted to strike up a conversation about like cats and Lizzy McAlpine, I would be like, beam me up. Yeah, actually, I did have a conversation

with a guy at a bagel shop in New York because there weren't enough tables and he was like looking around and I was taking up like a six person table and I was like, hey, do you want to sit down? And he sat down and we started talking. He was like, what do you do for a living? I was like, I have a podcast, whatever. And he was like, and he was like, Oh, I'm a real estate agent. I was like, cool. I love real estate. I do love real estate. And then

we started talking about like gentrification and all this stuff. And then he was like, I don't know if this is weird, but can I give you my number? And I was like, sure, because I was like, I don't know if I'll call it, but it's like, just give me your number. And he was like, oh, I can't find my other card. And then he gave me his acting card. He was an actor.

Oh, no. It had his head shot on it and his cell phone number. He just wanted to be against that stuff. That sounds like a cult. I don't think he did, because I didn't tell him like it. The book. Yeah. It's fair enough to be suspicious of actors, because one of Scientology's key recruitment

tactics is to lure creatives into their artist workshops. Yeah, that's true. Stay vigilant people. Here's the next story for you. A little shorter. This one is from a listener named Jamie Yelton. We can't wait to hear Jamie's story, but before we do, we're going to take a break to hear from our sponsors who make the show possible. Thank you to our sponsor, Loom. Let's face it.

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Jamey writes, in elementary school, once a month, we would have, quote unquote, character assemblies, where they recognized good student behavior and gave us a, quote unquote, character word, each month, like compassion or honesty. And that's what they would base the awards on next month. The weird part is that at the end of each assembly, the whole school would have to stand up and sing the proud song

and the responsible song, complete with an entire dance routine. I remember my music teacher in first grade getting upset because we couldn't remember when to cabbage patch during the response of all song. I later found out the school doesn't sing the songs anymore. All the kids seemed kind of concerned, which made me rethink a lot. So yeah, so I don't know. I think cults in general, but I think especially cultishness in elementary schools often aim to control chaos. It's like life can feel very chaotic and elementary schoolers can feel the most chaotic. And so you start to institutionalize these rules and rituals and sort of like mandatory behaviors in order to create some sense of control, and that can kind of like spiral out into something sort of religious seeming

and disturbing and fringy and weird. And I think that's what's happening here. Yeah, I also think this is a great example of how like adults are just grown up children because it's like, it reminds me of this episode in New Girl, which I just started rewatching, which it's like why? It's because they moved it.

They really do getcha. They moved it from Netflix to Hulu, and I was like, oh, a new show. Like, I'm like, I don't need to watch this thing, but I'm just so sick of TV right now. I stand with the writers. So we're the writers strike. But there's this episode where Miss Day,

AKA Jessica Day, starts teaching her kids how to play bells, and then one of the guy roommates gets involved, and he gets super competitive and starts yelling at the kids, and she's like, you can't get that into it. All the activities that we do are just supposed to be for fun.

It's not actually a real thing. It's not real, yeah, yeah. And I think that's actually a really good lesson is that you can engage in like really called to behaviors in general in life. Like you can do your woo woo spiritual manifestation, the yackety yack, but you just have to remember like, there's some amount of make believe here.

And that'll keep you safe. Yeah. And that's watch your back. That's why like this story I think is like a perfect watch your back. I. And that's Watch Your Back. That's why this story, I think, is a perfect Watch Your Back. I also think what's Watch Your Back-y about it is that it was basically forcing children to abide by certain virtues and compete against one another

for who was most virtuous in this way or that way. Like, I learned in Italy, talking to people and comparing American culture to Italian culture that it is so bizarre and culty that American schools pit students against each other through superlatives, like most likely to succeed or best eyes or whatever, or prom king and queen, like inherently ranking children

and they're worth from such a young age like that is really culty and this is just another example of that. Yeah, and another culty thing that they do that's like very capitalistic is like the pizza parties. Like if you get certain grades, like did you ever have those? Like if you're like a straight-age student, you get a pizza party in the semester,

it's like we are literally conditioned from such an early age to like respond to money and gifts that it's like, there's not like a lot of intrinsic motivation like given to children in American education. Yeah, that's so true. It really does create a hyper ambitious, consumerist nutcase out of us all. And it's not like to all kids now wanting to be YouTubers for the money and notifications. And pizza. Ay, yay, yay, yay, yay. Ha, ha, ha.

That's a watcher back. That's a watcher back, y'all. Yeah. All right, for this listener calling episode, we're gonna do one more story. So this last story is from an anonymous listener who would prefer not to be named. High Colties buckle up for this Get the Fuck Out level.

Ooh, okay, we will see. In 2020, I joined an online occult school. Of course, the verbiage was that they only had one spot left and I was so lucky to be chosen for the final spot. Okay, it's not like grad school. It was during COVID when I was so lucky to be chosen for the final spot. Okay, it's not like grad school. Yeah, it was during COVID when I was soul searching and had been to India and wanted more spirituality. It started fine doing meditations and learning about the tarot.

Soon the tarot, I like the way she says that. Okay, okay. Soon I was encouraged to move in with my partner of one month who I was also in the quote unquote school with and removed myself for my family who I was also in the quote unquote school with and removed myself from my family who I was very close with. I was encouraged to stay up reading a cult text mostly by a Lester Crowley, who my quote unquote teacher idolized. I was instructed to decode the text and dissect all of the hidden meanings. My teacher used a lot of terms from Jewish mysticism

and the Kabbalah, and I felt some legitimacy in his teachings. But one month into this, I was in a full mania and can definitely say I was brainwashed. I became obsessed with numerology and was told to infer about any and all numbers I saw around me. I refused to get a job because if I was in a pure spiritual state, I could manifest money on my terms. I even wrote an 800-page book during this time. Not to say it's good, but that was my manic state. Okay, manic state writing girlie. He gave me rituals to do and oath

to soar both with and without my partner. I paid this person over a thousand dollars a month for Zoom sessions where we discussed raising the consciousness and how I was never doing enough to quote unquote, break my programming and quote unquote Break through the spheres of consciousness to manifest what I want my teacher would use my relationship as a way to get me to do more for him By loosely threatening my partner He would tell me that if I was good at manifesting I would be able to pay him more money or pay him that day and so on At one point my partner sold his van and I turned to sex work to pay this person. I have no idea how it went this far and I let myself change who I am because of this person. I have never even met face

to face. It ended when my partner was going to Egypt and broke up with me because the teacher told him it would elevate his consciousness and bring him to the next sphere. I'm happy to say I no longer associate with these people and dabble with my spirituality on my terms with people and teachers I feel very safe with. For a while I swore off my spirituality because it reminded me of the manic state I reached at the time. Reading Coltish, hashtag Amanda Montel helped me realize the power of language especially when it's used against lost and vulnerable people. I'm so grateful for Coltish and the sounds like a cult pod because it makes me feel less

alone and I'm not stupid. For a long time I've been embarrassed and guilty and learning more about Colt's helping realize that there's no shame. Thank you for listening, there's definitely more to that story, but this is the gist of what happened. I'm happy to provide more info if need be and would prefer my name not be included if this ends up in the episode. A large part of me still doesn't associate with this version of myself. I appreciate your understanding. Yours anonymous. Awwww. That took a turn, I didn't see. Well, I mean, like, the cult stuff was very much

like happening, but the the thinking you and I, mostly you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I think like truly like this podcast can be cheeky and whatever, but what we're ultimately really trying to say is that cultish influence spares no one, right? And like not everybody is going to end up in this new A.G. super exploitative, abusive spiritual group where they're like, how did it get this far? How did I fall this far in?

And this type of thing might not be relatable to everybody, but that's why we cover so many topics from toxic relationships to Taylor Swift, you know? I never thought about like that because I remember we talked about this a lot in our first episodes, remember we talked about like, or when we talked about MLMs, like the shame, like some cost fallacy, like there's a lot of people who, like,

literally the reason people staying cults for so long is because they're ashamed to admit that they were wrong. Yeah. And I never realized how, by talking about like, everyday cults, we are kind of like dismantling that. Do. Really? Because it's like, there is no shame.

Like everyone has done it, whether it was a live your life or get the fuck out, everyone has been there at some point. I mean, I grew up Catholic, you know, and I was like, I was drinking the Kool-Aid. Yeah, that's the thing.

But now I only pray on planes. Yeah. Well, you're picking and choosing. You're picking and choosing what works for you. And that is ultimately a piece of advice that we try to give. It's like you don't have to give up everything that could be considered coldish. And it does sound like this person who wrote in

has been able to involve themselves in spirituality after recovering from the trauma of what they went through. It's just not, you just don't want to fully immerse yourself in something to the point that you lose who you were before. Totally. I also think like we also talk a lot about how a good way of getting, not a good way, but what often happens when people get out of a cult is that they kind of join another one. But like you said, kind of like, if you continue to stay in touch with your spirituality, you

do it in like a live your life level. Or like if you leave a cult, you join Soul Cycle, and it's not as deep and toxic, and I feel like we kind of are, we are a live your life cult. So it's like people have this space to come to, to find community or feel heard, and we're not, like we like, I don't have plans to do more work.

So I don't, well, but the funny thing about what we're doing right now is that the moment you start to defend why you're not a Get the Fuck Out level cult, you start to sound like one. So, well, no, I'm not defending that we're not get the fuck out. I'm just saying we are a leader life, you know? We're somewhere on the spectrum, that's for sure.

Well, that is our show. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back with a new cult next week, but in the meantime, stay culty. But not too culty. Sounds like a cult was created, hosted, and produced by Issa Medina and Amanda Montel. Our theme music is by Casey Colt. This episode was edited and mixed by Jordan Moore of The Pod Captain. To join our cult, follow us on Instagram at SoundsLikeAColtPod. I'm on Instagram at Amanda Underscore Montel and feel free to check out my books, Cultish,

the language of fanaticism, and word select, a feminist guide taking back the English language. And I'm on Instagram at Esamadina, I-S-A-A, M-E-D-I-N-A, where you can find tickets to my live stand-up comedy shows or tell me where to perform. We also have a Patreon and we would appreciate your support there at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult. And if you'd like our show, feel free to give us a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. And if you don't like our show, rate other podcasts the way you'd rate us. Yeah!