Sounds Like A Cult - The Cult of Stand-Up Comedy

Episode Date: May 10, 2022

Co-host Isa joined the “cult” of stand-up comedy four years ago in LA but didn’t realize until we started this podcast how culty it really was. Recorded live at the first-ever Netflix Is A Joke comedy festival, this week’s long-awaited episode features Isa and Amanda interviewing a very special guest—comedian and creator/star of “Feel Good” on Netflix, Mae Martin—about the hidden hierarchies, secret due-paying, exclusion, delusion, silencing, in-group lingo and rituals, AND (of course) the hilarity, magic, and close community of stand-up comedy.  Go to Grove.com/Cult to get a free gift set worth up to fifty dollars with your first order. For listeners of the show, Calm is offering an exclusive offer of 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at Calm.com/cult Athletic Greens Is giving you a FREE 1-year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com/CULT

This episode was recorded live at the W Hotel in Hollywood as part of the first ever Netflix is a joke comedy festival, which we were so excited to be included in. Our guest today is Mae Martin, a Canadian-born stand-up comic living in the UK. They are the creator and star of the show Feel Good on Netflix, and they're here with us today at Netflix is a joke comedy festival to discuss the cult of stand-up comedy. This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm Amanda Montell, author of the book Cultish the Language of Fanaticism, and I'm Issa Medina, a comedian. Every week on our show we discuss a different fanatical fringe group from the cultural zeitgeist from Trader Joe's to Instagram therapists to try and answer the big question,

this group sounds like a cult. But is it really? Oh, to join our cult follow us on Instagram at SoundsLikeACult5. I'm on IG at Issa Medina, and I'm over there on Instagram at Amanda underscore Montell, and feel free to hit us up on Patreon at patreon.com slash SoundsLikeACult, where our episodes are available ad free. And check us out on YouTube where you can watch our show. Today we're filming live at Netflix is a joke comedy festival with a very special guest, Maymart. Sorry that you were sitting there awkwardly while we like did our intro. No, it just was, it's charming how embarrassed you were about having to do the intro. I am so embarrassed. We've never said our intro in front of a third party before. Yeah, that feels, it felt voyeuristically weird. Yes,

here we have our third, our comedy cult leader here to talk to us about the cult of stand-up comedy. Yeah, you're a stand-up comedian. Yes. Yeah. Do you want to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? Oh, you know, I'm just, I'm just trying to get by in this world. I'm, yeah, I'm a comedian and, and writer and actor, I guess. Cool. Yeah. Wish I was a musician. Oh, yeah, I just saw Heim on Sunday. Oh my God. Are you kidding? Are you joking? When they hit the drums, I was like, yeah, how are they so effortlessly cool? The way they use their bodies, but they don't do much with their bodies, but you're just like, oh, you know you're cool. They do a lot with their faces. They do a lot with their faces. Yeah. And like they, they even did like a little bit in the

middle of the show. Like they were all so funny. I was like, enough. And then licorice pizza, there's nothing they can't do. Yeah. I might be biased, but I want to think that if you would approach Heim and say, I'd like to join your band, they'd probably say yes. You think they'd welcome me in? I think so, sure. I would stand out like such a sore thumb. You could be like a stay chance. You're wearing the perfect outfit as a person. Just this gang. First, I wanted to say like, I've been wanting to do this episode for so long because I didn't really know much about Colts until Amanda came into my life. And then every week we've been doing like a different subject. And then every week I noticed I was like, Oh my God, stand up comedy is

a cult. It ticks the boxes, right? Yeah, exactly. What do you think is like so culty about stand up comedy? The interesting thing is it has a revolving cult leaders, but it's yeah, but it's got its own sort of lingo and language to it. I mean, for me, I found it in my teens and it completely took over my life and took me away from my family and like an alarming way where I went off the grid and disappeared into the club. So that's cult like in a way. Yeah, absolutely. What does it mean to you? You think like, do you think it's still like a big part of your life as your career grows? I mean, I obviously love comedy so deeply. It's maybe the only thing I love in my life, which is so bleak. But I do, I don't love like stand up comedy culture. I don't

like, I mean, it depends if you if you're just doing shows with your friends, it can it's the best in the world that feeling. But whenever I've done like the club circuit and stuff, I don't I don't love that world. It can be a very like threatening place. And then I never want to be too negative about it because it's like, yeah, it's like family, like I'm passionate about it too. But it's so blatantly obvious the how uncool it can be. You know, that's right. I started doing stand up like almost four years ago. And I started in LA, which is kind of the worst place to start. I did it because I was obsessed with comedians and I had no friends. And I was like, how do I make friends and like the best way to make friends is to like go to live events. Yeah. And I think

that's a main motivator for why people join cults of all stripes is literally to make friends. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And to it's these people welcoming you with open arms. And if you're not feeling that in the rest of your life, yeah, yeah, exactly. And it was like, I just was like, okay, this is how I'm going to make friends. And I fell into this community. And I now whenever people ask me like, Oh, how do you know so and so or how do you know so and so I'm like, there's comedy and I feel a little embarrassed about it because I'm like, do I have any other hobbies? I don't know. Podcasting, which is even more embarrassing. Yeah. Right. Just call yourself a podcast. Yeah. I sort of have imposter syndrome with saying I'm a comedian. I've been doing it

for 20 plus years. You still feel that way? Yeah. I mean, here at this festival specifically, like it's really, but maybe that's because you have a show on Netflix. Thank you. Amazing show. I think it's because I maybe I live in the UK and I grew up in Canada. I've been in London for 12 years. So I definitely feel like an outsider in terms of the American comedy. Yeah. And it feels intimidating sometimes and so politicized right now. And I'm like, am I gonna, I don't know. But I think that's probably why I moved to England was the scene there is really theatrical. Like it's people are doing hour long French shows every summer. So it's a little less kind of. Yeah, it's more like a variety of shows. Like I still go and see comedy on my nights off, which

is so, so wild. Like still because I do love it. But when it feels cult like is when someone is on stage, who is like, objectively not being funny, like objectively, but they're speaking in the pattern of a stand up comedian. Yeah. And the comedians at the back are cackling because they want to be audibly supporting this dude on stage to be like, we get we get it. And it's like, that's when it feels cult like. Yes. Hang on. Where was the joke there or like, I'm desperate to comment on this because whenever I go to a stand up show, I a bit feel like an outsider at a cult meeting. When I was in middle school, I used to out of anthropological fascination, accompany my my best friend to the evangelical mega church where she and her mother remembers.

And I used to marvel at the followers as they would raise their hands and worship and chant and recite these mantras clearly filled with a Holy Spirit that just was not touching me. Yes. And sometimes when I'm at a stand up show, I feel the same thing. Everybody is just in this shared delusion cackling with laughter at a joke that just has not filled me with the Holy Spirit. And I feel like am I supposed to fake the laughter to demonstrate my worship of this figure who's kind of feeling a cult leader role because faking laughter to me feels not unlike faking an orgasm. It's like this visceral bodily thing. And if I fake it, that'll give you feedback you shouldn't have. Yeah, exactly. It should be an involuntary physical response. Yeah. When you join in, when

you go, all right, I'm just going to try it and see what it feels like to fake laugh at this and get wrapped. And then you do feel like you've heard of it. Yeah, I do get it. And you feel that sense of community. Does fake laughter like hurt your soul because I feel like it's starting to hurt my soul? Yeah, a little bit. Like doing it. If it's a friend that, you know, on stage, who's who's really like, uh-huh, you know, yeah, my you know, my mom is not a comedy fan. I guess her introduction to it was me as a teenager going off into these clubs and hanging out with adults. And so she has never gotten into it. But she always, she's like, she puts her head in her hands and she's like, the language is so violent. It's I crushed, I killed. Yeah, I bombed or

if you got that on the agenda. Yeah, yeah. It's it's interesting language. My parents, I'm originally from Columbia. So you are. Oh, cool. Moved to America when I was seven. So my parents are like, very much like immigrant vibes. Yeah, yeah. I always add the word vibes because I like don't feel like I look like an immigrant. Right. Just immigrant vibe. Yeah. And my parents do not get a single joke. Like they watch Saturday Night Live every week. And they're like, what, why was there still waiting? Maybe we should talk a little bit about your joining the cult of comedy, like because you were so young when you started, like what was that experience like? How did you get inducted, so to speak? I started doing improv classes at

this place, the second city in Toronto. And then and then just started, I don't know why my parents gave me such a long leash and like no curfew. But I was, I would then like hang out around the clubs and go and see how old shows 13. That's insane, especially because like, it's not like you were going to like study, like you were going to a club. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I think cause really early on, I don't know. I guess it was like right before you learned to be ashamed of who you are. Like I was, I just got in, you know, before puberty, like destroyed me. So I was weirdly confident and I would just be like, Oh, can I do a set or whatever? And then I think because of the novelty of it, people let me and then that was so addictive. And then also

at school, you know, being different is humiliating. And then yeah, in a club, you can say it on stage and then be rewarded for it. So I mean, it was like a physical high. Well, it sounds addictive. It's that because being able to incite laughter in another human feels like a magic trick. Yeah, it is. I feel like you, you do get addicted to it. But then when you like don't do it for a while, then you're like, Oh, maybe this is fine. But then it's a muscle. And then when you do it again, you're like, Oh, fuck, why did I stop? I need to do this every day. Well, I was just watching that comedy store, Ducky series that you recommended to me. And I heard the comedy store, one of the sort of epicenters of the cult of comedy, because there are cults of within cults described as a

fraternity. I heard it described as an abusive lover where it like hurts so much. But then you go back and you're like, Oh, man, I know why I'm in love. It's like, you just need one good set to reel you back in. But that's interesting, the cults within the cults. And I think that's what it's taken me so, you know, decades to stop wanting the approval of the cults within the cult and be like, I just I love comedy. I love some of the people. I love the reaction and saying stuff. But it's things like, yeah, yuck yucks in Canada as a chain or like, SNL, you hear people be like, it's miserable. Like it's people are like, it was hell. Like we didn't sleep. We didn't eat. I feel like the biggest cult of them all is, you know, a Netflix special. It's like the version

of like for a comedian. It's like enlightenment. It's like the highest. Yeah, I can hear the sound in my head. Yeah, as like a smaller comedian, who I am still struggling with calling myself a comedian. Right. It's like when you tell people you do stand up, they're like, Oh, like, where do you do comedy? Like can't wait to see your Netflix special. And you're just like, Oh, God, I don't know. Or even as a kid, well, maybe not in Colombia as much. But like, yeah, it was all my parents friends being like, when are you going to get on SNL? Yeah, all cults have hierarchies that are sort of unspoken. Yes. And you don't really know what you're signing up for when you get in. Yes. And I feel like there's some of that in comedy where you think, Oh, okay, there's a trajectory

that I can follow. Yeah. But then you arrive at each level of that hierarchy and you realize, Oh, there's more. And there are dues that you have to pay. What do you think like the tiers are before you get to that like level of enlightenment? I feel like the smallest tier is like open mic comedy. And then maybe doing a middle spot. What does that mean? Like on a bill, if there'd be an opener and a middle spot and a and a headliner. Oh, you don't think an opener would be like the next? I don't think so. Well, but this is the thing. I'm not in tune with like the American tier. So I'm doing a late night set. That's just not a skill that I have. Like a tight five. Yeah, a tight five on like Jimmy Fallon or something like that's so impressive to me. And I, I love it

when people do it. Well, it's incredible. I just don't have that. It is very culty because a tight five, you literally work for like years to get your tight five. We should explain what a tight five is. This is some of the terminology that I've had to learn knowing Issa like I have learned so much about this cult, which as an outsider, I observe and I'm like, you are at stand up shows and open mics every single night. It's like you're in recovery. It's like you're going to AA meetings. Yeah, I'm amazed by how time consuming it is. I'm amazed by how all consuming it is. What is a tight five? It's like a polished five minutes that that can work anywhere basically a long time developing your first five minutes. And then yeah, but it's it is different in other countries, but it is

similar. That's a good comparison. The like AA meetings, because like if you go to an AA meeting in Australia, you walk in and you feel like you're in a really familiar environment. And I think green rooms are like that. They're all the same. Yeah, I did a show in Serbia, and it was so surreal. And I feel like a clerical error of some kind. They'd flown me there. And you were just like, yep, see there. Yeah, yeah. Like the same way you showed up at our podcast. Yeah, you got off a flight. You're like, why not? You're like, this too feels like a clerical error. I was like 25. And it was in an opera house in Serbia and stand up as such a new medium there, like this brand new and they'd they'd booked it was some sort of eccentric millionaire had booked

random comedians from all over the world. So we all show up and then we're like, who's on first? And he's like, I don't know, you just, you know, figure it out yourself. It was in an opera house like, wow, filled with people who'd never seen stand up, but even feels like awkward space. Oh, it was so awkward. But yeah, we were all like, where are we? And the audience was so confused about what it was. And then but even there, even in that weird environment, like you fall into the same green room chat and the lingo is the same and you feel comfortable and everybody's got their notebooks out. My biggest regret in comedy is like having started in LA, but it wasn't like intentional. What was it like doing comedy in London? Do you think it was I mean, you've kind

of implied but like kind of better than starting in the States or I started in Toronto. And I think that's a great city for Stan. I did sketch and improv and stuff where which where you can kind of avoid some of the cultishness. But I think Toronto is a great city for comedy. And then, yeah, and then England to my dad's British. So I grew up watching like British comedy. And yeah, yeah, we were speaking about this a little bit before. But have you ever found yourself in a position where you were having to figure out how to pay a due to achieve a level of success that you didn't anticipate? That's a great question. Also, while you were talking, I was thinking it is isn't it quite culty to kind of have to work unpaid for absolutely like that's for years.

Yeah, and spending your money. Yeah, what is it called when you say like it's gonna all it's all gonna be worth it in the end or ends justify the end justify. And the end stardom. It's fascinating because there is all this financial exploitation and things that could be quantified as abuse. But you're doing it in service of stardom, which is like a tier higher than spiritual actualization in this culture. It's the equivalent, isn't it? It's like, it is. Maybe I'll become a Greek God. Like I'll be I'll join this pantheon of like archetypes that people yeah, yeah. Yeah, insane. That's insane. But were there dues that you found yourself having to pay or people that you found yourself having to hobnob with where you were like, I'm doing this,

I'm doing this, but I didn't anticipate it. No one told me about this. I just spent so long in the trenches with it, you know, sucking up to horrible men like that. Yeah, laughing at their jokes and, and, you know, laughing at the horrible things they were saying and doing. And yeah, when did you have your like come to a moment of like, I'm not gonna like pity laugh at like a man's joke more because I I have it like every other week. And then I like I'm in an uncomfortable situation where I'm like the only like woman in the room. And then I'm like, yeah, it just like happens. I'm sure I still do it. But that's because we are emotionally intelligent and empathetic. And you were like, Oh, I should laugh. But someone's got to, you know, and

we're communalists. We're communalists. And you're right. The second you start laughing, you're like, Oh, wait, it does feel good. Yeah, also, I don't know if you felt this doing comedy in the UK. But in America, if I'm in a dark room with a bunch of men and they're angry, sometimes I literally just laugh for my sake. Yeah, I did a club in LA the last time I was here. And it was the first time I'd done that really, every male comedian gave me notes after on my set. Like they were giving me like tips on my punch lines, they're providing alternate punch lines. And I was just like, I know what I know what my set went really well. And like better, you know, so it was just so interesting. You can say better than there. But they didn't do that

with anyone else. But I don't know. I mean, the thing is, if I started scratching this like scab, I could really lean into like, how frustrating it can be and all the negatives. And I always am like, I should balance that by being like, there's amazing. Yeah, we want to balance it. We want to talk about like the community aspect. Yes. For me, it was like, that's how I made all of my friends in LA. All my friends are comedians. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How do you like feel like your relationship is with those comedians? Do you think they're like family or like just like a comedy community? I got kicked out of my house young. And so it was comedians that were the cause of that, but also the solution. I had some amazing like mentor figures,

men and women who are still like, you know, feel like parental figures or like weird uncle and aunt figures who are amazing to me. And then yeah, like, I guess you, you just have to be like, who is really happy for me when something good happens and vice versa. And then those are the people. Yeah, you know, it's tricky. Yeah, because I feel like there's like, there's two levels of like comedian friendships. It's like the people who are like, going to your show to get booked on your show. Yeah. And then there's the people who are like, going to your show to like, genuinely support you. Totally. Being funny doesn't always equate to like kindness. And so I think for for years, I naturally gravitated to like the funniest people and they're not always the kindest and

examples. Yeah, name names. But now I'm like, I'm 35, like I've culled. And now I have like such a, there's so many great gems out there. And there's this whole like new wave of kind of alternative, often queer, like queer comedians. Well, I feel like you were one of the like leaders in that. Thank you. But John Erley and all those people who are just so fucking funny and that that group is becoming so mainstream and popular is so cool. Yeah. And the fact that like those people kind of like, have other smaller comedians on their shows and like bring them up with them, really creates like space for growth. Yeah. Because the truth is that comedy is not a space that has one unifying cult leader, like Jonestown, you know, like it is a space where you can kind

of branch off and create your own denominations. Because back in the day, the cult leaders, the people who had their cults of personality, their cult followings, the ability to influence who found success were like, you know, bookers and door guys, you know, very successful, mostly white dude comedians. And now, especially with social media to queer people, people classified as alternative, which like that's problematic too, that they can create their their own spaces and their own, you know, yeah, good cults. But it is crazy. Like, would a culty thing be like, not being not feeling able to like, vocally criticize the leader? Yes. I'm always amazed by that. Like the I know so many people who it, you know, if I'm talking to them one on one are so

vocally critical about big comedians who are doing bad things, but they they won't wait in or they won't say it around other comics or they won't say it online. And I get that. But like, it is wild. Yeah, I feel like I've started to feel that a little bit more just because I'm still like not really anyone I'm not like an important person. Like, yes, you are, to my opinion. But I but like when I was just like doing open mic comedy, I was like, fuck this, like that. You know, I was like, I had like such hard opinions and now like I'm a little scared. I feel the same. What's frustrating is I'm like, like, I was so upset when Louis CK won the Grammy recently. And and then I, I like tweeted, I just got upset and I ended up doing like a Twitter thread and then and then I panicked and I deleted the thread because I was like, yeah, people were piling on and I was like, fuck. And then I

why did I delete it? And I'm like, I can't repost it. That is just post a screen shot of your thread. Yes. But then I'm like, why is no one else saying anything? Like, yeah, this is our like, this is our community or our industry. I remember when like, Lucy K, the first night he went back to the improv after he was kind of like MIA for a little while. And like, it was this thing of like, some comics wanted to go see him, but they didn't want to say they wanted to go see him. But then I feel like after he went back a couple times, then like the narrative just moved to being like, okay, like we're not going to talk about him. Yeah. Yeah. The fear about speaking truth to power and subverting those power structures is definitely I think one of the biggest cult red flags in

comedy as an outsider, the way that I see it, I just can't off the top of my head think of another art form that regards itself as like, full of full of misfits and full of people who like, I don't have to abide by the rules of what you're supposed to say. I say whatever I want. That I think is an attitude of comedians. But at the same time, you have to abide by that hierarchy. Yes. Yeah, you're so right. Speaking truth to power and that's in comedy supposed to be a subversive. That's right. Yeah, it's supposed to do just that. But then we're trapped in this cage of the power structure within the same time. Like what would you say on a positive note, like that comedy bring back there before we start to wrap up? Oh my God. Yeah. Like I'm saying all of this

with the caveat that like I am at my happiest in comedy clubs. I feel the most empowered and in control on stage. Like I've had, yeah, my best friends are comedians. My best friends are straight male comedians. Like that's the big caveat. They're just because if you look beneath, it's all just like insecurity. They're just like these people who just want like to be heard and like accepted and patriarchy allows them to be. Yes. And to me as looking at those people, I'm just like it's so embarrassing. But I think also there's different people do comedy for different reasons. And I think I love it when people do it either because they have something to say or because they just love to genuinely make people laugh. And then you can tell when it's coming from more of a like

chip on their shoulder, like a hole to fill. But and there is this whole relationship between comedy and depression, suicide. And that's another reason probably why when I'm in stand-up comedy spaces, I feel almost a sense of codependence with the person on the stage. Like my laughter is connected to Amanda thinks that if she doesn't laugh, the comedian is going to be like, I'm going to kill me. No, not true. Not genuinely. But there is that in the back of my mind. And yet when I have a moment when like someone says something that fucking to use the language of violence kills crushes, whatever, I feel genuinely transported. It's like you've taken me away from my despair for a moment. And like that's what a cult is supposed to do. That's what spirituality is.

That's true. Those moments of like euphoria and reprieve from the like unmitigated pain of living and also like the when you say something that everyone knows is true, but it just never thought of before. And it's so unifying. I mean, this is why people love memes because it's like, yes, we all feel that way. So then the people who get to say the unifying thing should not just be these dudes, white dudes who've said like, this is what comedy is universally. But yeah, that's also the reason like I hate it is the reason I love it is that like it's so subjective. That's the problem is when people say, no, this is objectively. Yeah, people who say like this is objectively funny. Like you can't say that. You know, someone that I don't find funny if they're finding their

audience and they're saying something that's unifying a certain group of people, I guess, I guess that's good. It's just bad when that results. That hurts others. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've been dancing around the lingo a bit. Yes, talk to me. And I would love to play a little game. I've made a little list of in group comedy terms, some of which I understand and some of which I don't. Regardless, I'd love to hear you attempt to define them as insiders, because I think the language is what contributes to the culture of comedy and the culture is what contributes to the culture. And if you have any, we missed then. Okay, I'll think of some weird British ones. Please do. What is an open miker? Just someone who's just starting out and

only doing the open mic circuit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Usually doing sort of one of four jokes. Yeah. That make the rounds. Yeah. Or they like memorize every word they're going to say. Yeah. Memorize it like a script and even the fake improvised parts. Yeah. And usually they go, I got two roommates. They're called the mom and dad. And they also, I feel like tell like a story. They end their set with like, and that's the story of how I did it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they go, I know what you're thinking. I look like a cross between Mickey Rooney and a pug or whatever. Mickey Rooney. I haven't said Mickey Rooney maybe ever in my life. Okay. I think we all know what this is, but I'd love to hear you define it. What is bombing? It's like one of the most aggressive

stand up terms. It's like when you do have have a horrible set. Yeah. Crickets, silence. But yeah, as an audience member, I have always loved watching someone bomb. And that's like, my mom will never set foot in a comedy club because it's her nightmare is watching someone bomb. But I love, there's something so heroic about someone going, I really thought this was going to be amazing. And it's not. And pushing through it and like, oh, I have immense respect when they, when they say things like, great, that's wonderful feedback. I'm going to work on that other than, fuck you all for not laughing. Oh yeah. There's nothing worse than when a comedian like blames the room. Oh yeah. They go, this is funny. Yeah. It's like, we guarantee you, if it were, we'd laugh.

We're here to laugh. Yeah, I think we want to laugh. We hate money to laugh. A lot of comedians feel like when they're bombing. And like, I've felt this before, but I'm like, obviously you like fight against it is like that the audience is like out to get you. Yeah. It's like there, they want to be there. I will say that like, I'm just having this flashback of like, in my teens, just being such a little shit. And like, I went through this phase of smoking on stage, like no way. I thought I was really cool. This is how long ago it was, you could still smoke inside. And so I went on stage and it was a New Year's Eve show where people had paid a lot of money for their tickets. And I shouldn't have been on this bill. And I went out smoking and

just did like sort of anti comedy, like just was really kind of, and people booed. And I went backstage to all the other comics with like these assholes, or they don't know what's fun. And everyone was like, no, that was you. That was fully. Oh no. With use, it's passable. Yeah. Was that like a turning point for you at all? I'm sure it should have been. I'm sure there were a few more bad years. All right. I feel like this term transgresses or like transverses fields, but what is a noob? Oh, isn't that come from gaming? Isn't that just like a newbie? Yeah, newbie. Okay. Yeah. What's a heckler? Like someone who shouts out during your set. I asked on my Instagram, like, what's the cultiest thing about stand up comedy and a comedian?

Replied. I think it's crazy that when anyone else besides the comedian speaks, they're identified as a heckler. Yeah. I'm like, if you think about it that way, that's kind of not. We didn't even talk about this, or at least we didn't talk about it. Like the celebration of the self. Yeah. Like this is not a collaboration. No, this is a naval gazing. Me, me, me. But I relate to it so much because like as an author, you two are like celebrating. Yeah, I relate to it because I'm a Pisces sun and moon, but Leo rising. Okay. Welcome back to LA. Okay. What are bucket names? Oh, I don't know. Is that like, oh, if there's too many comics, they put their names in a bucket? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I very recently, I'm like still, and I still go to open mics. So it's like

when you like put your name in a bucket, like you get pulled out, but it's like, if you go to any mic in LA, it's like definitely a rigged mic. Oh, really? They know who they want. Yeah. Oh, that's so depressing. Yeah. Which is like so annoying because it's like before you even climb or get to the tier of like club comedy, you have to work your way through like open mic comedy. Yes. Doesn't it feel like now there's more ways to like you could start running your own show and there's ways to get around it. Yeah. For me, it was like I started running my own show like six months into doing stand up because I was in LA. Yeah. I was like, I don't want to suck up to these people. I'll just produce my own show and it's like get way more stage time, more stage time, meet people.

Yeah, it's stressful, but I think it's totally worth it. And well, now in hindsight, the most embarrassing part was that like I was producing a show booking like great comics and I was like six months into comedy. That's great. So it was like bombing up top. Yeah. And this is this was the genesis of the podcast too. It's like whatever. There are gatekeepers and we're going to do our own fucking thing. Yeah, exactly. Okay, what's a bringer? You have to bring audience. Yeah. You have to bring a few members of the audience. Yeah. So that's a very I don't know if it's just an LA thing, but it's like a pyramid scheme. It is literally a multi level marketing scheme where you are booked on a show. But if you don't bring enough people, then they won't let you on the

show. No way. And because you run out of friends to ask for favors, you ask other comics, you know. And so then it's like you're bringing people into the scheme and then they want to do it. And I just got beads on itself. You're like, I started doing this because I had no friends. Not to like the chicken or the egg man. Yeah. Um, tags set up punchline. A setup would be, I guess, the beginning of a joke, like setting up the premise and then there's the punchline. And then my favorite bit is the tag, like a throwaway thing that you say the tags are like the ones that you come up with like in the car and you're like, Oh my God. Yeah. Or on stage. Yeah. You just comes out from the adrenaline and you think that's a really great moment. Yeah. Oh,

that's beautiful. Okay. Oh, I know this one. What's riffing? Every episode I'm like, Amanda, we need to. I'm just like stick to the outline. I love that. We need to. Yeah, like improvising. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just what we're doing right now. No, we're at the beginning of a joke. It's like an author and a comedian walk into a podcast. What is the light? Oh, the light. Well, that sounds really like the go towards the light. Like to tell you that you've got to get off stage or you could have it to warn you you have a few minutes left. Yeah. Did you not know that? No. Nothing more annoying to than like, again, I won't name names, but like you're on a bill and then some successful comedian shows up and is just like, can I can I do a set?

They weren't meant to do a set that night. And of course, everyone's excited. You're excited. You're like, Yeah, great. And they're like, I'll just go on and do I'm working on new 20 and then they do an hour literally and all these young comics just can't do their set. They run the light by like 20 minutes, 30 minutes. And like, there's nothing you can do about it. No, no. Okay, two more. What is a chuckle fucker? Have you heard that term? No, what is that? Like a like a comedy groupie? Yeah, it's like a track to like comedians and like wants to fuck them after their set. Do you date comedians? I have. I've hooked up with comedians. Okay, okay. Yeah. Yeah, same. Maybe I'm a chuckle fucker. Yeah, no, I honestly am here started doing comedy because

I was like in love with like 10 comedians. Yeah, that's why you start, of course, you like fall in love with them on stage. And then you're like, I need to be a part of this. That's so human, though, like the motivation to want to pursue a career because of something as profound as love. Yes, that is nice. I like the way you phrase it. Okay, local author. I added this at the end because I just love this. It's something that I think comedians take for granted, but I think of it as such an in group term. How would you define material? Huh? I didn't even think of it as a term until we were like on our way over and Amanda like pulled out her pen and was like, because I don't know, we like mentioned the word material. And I was like, I wouldn't even think that was. Yeah,

me neither. But I guess it only applies to that to comedy really because otherwise, yeah, because you wouldn't say like content or yeah, yeah, I guess like the technical term should be jokes. Yeah, yeah. But but then you're like, I don't really do jokes. I tell stories. There's like the sense of reverence and importance and purpose in the term material. Like this is the fabric with which our culture is constructed. But there is something so satisfying about like your notebook. You're filling out your yeah, right now. Oh, it's so good. Yeah, I was we were recording another episode and with minimalists, you recorded other episodes. I just felt really jealous. Yeah, you can come to all of them. Really, you can come to all of them. We were recording

with like the minimalists and they were talking. They actually dressed just like you all black. Oh, really? Sandals. So they are a real thing. Yeah. Wow. They're like the minimalists and they were talking about how like they threw away like all their notebooks. And I was like, no, no. I was like, your material. Yeah, like that's not. We have this game that we play on our show called Coltty Quotes, where we read a list of quotes and some of them are by cult followed comedians and some of them are by notorious cult leaders from history. And you have to identify which is which. Okay, amazing. Okay, who said this Coltty quote, a cult followed comedian or notorious cult leader from history? The first quote is, never underestimate the power of stupid

people in large groups. Oh, wow. I think that's a comedian. I think that's, is it? It was George Carlin. I was going to say George Carlin. Yes. Okay. Number one comedy fan comedian. You know them back to the front. That sounded like George Carlin. Okay. Number two Coltty quote, is this a cult followed comedian or notorious cult leader? Look down at me and you see a fool. Look up at me and you see a God. Look straight at me and you see yourself. I mean, I, I hope that's not a comedian. That would be. Yeah. Yeah. Is it a cult leader? Okay. It's Charles Manson. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You would hope. And yet, if the Bible is true, then I'm Christ. Who would have said that? If the Bible is true, then I'm, what does it even mean? Is it

Chris Dillia? No, that's, that's thankfully David Koresh, the Branch Davidians, aka Waco. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I just want to fake you out. Okay. You did fake me out. Sorry. I was just thinking he looks kind of like Christ. Yeah. Fair enough. Okay. The IRS, they're like the mafia. They can take anything they want. Uh, comedian? Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a, like a bit. I know. I'll, I'll also read it like a comedian. Yeah. You really, you delivered it really well. The IRS, they're like the mafia. They can take anything they want. Who is that? Do you want to guess? Yeah. I'm going to say Richard Pryor. No, but I was going to say close, but no. Jerry Seinfeld. Okay. Okay. It was funny that you were mentioning the comedians lilt. Yes. Because

there's also a poet's lilt. Is there a, well, a spoken word. Yeah. The IRS, they're like the mafia. They can take anything they want. That was amazing. Spoken word. Yeah. Uh, next, culty quote. Is this a cult leader or a comedian? I say this with as much humility as I am capable, which isn't very much. But when I sit down and start to talk, people start gathering. That's a cult leader. Yeah. I think that's Jim Jones or something. Comedians don't know the word humility. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's too many. That was Chuck Dieterich, the leader of Synanon, the cult where my dad spent his teenage years. I really believe in the philosophy that you create your own universe. I'm just trying to create a good one for myself. I feel like I've heard

Sarah Silverman say that on her podcast, something similar. I feel like she would like iconic, but it was Jim Carrey. Oh, was it? Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. I like that sentiment. Yeah. Next quote. When someone comes along and expresses him or herself as freely as they think, people flock to it. They enjoy it. People flock to it. They enjoy it. Yeah. I'm gonna go comedian. Yeah. Am I right? This one right in the line. Yeah. Very controversial. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, truly, I would say this person is a cult leader. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Is it Chappelle? No. Because that's a cult like thing. Yeah. It's Joe Rogan. Well, he's sort of crossing over, isn't he? Yeah. He's crossing. He's sort of dipping his toe into the arena of the unwell. Yeah.

Put that on a quote, Graham. Yeah. Okay. Final quote. Everything comes out of smoke and mist and nothingness, a mystical happening. That's nice. I mean, I think cult leader. It's Jen Rivers. Oh, no way. That's a quote from her book, Enter Talking. No way. We got you in the end. Oh, you did? Joan got me. I'm so glad it was her that got me. Have you seen the documentary about her? No. Oh my god. It's like mind blowing. I don't know. I saw it in cinemas years ago. Would you say cinemas? Sorry. No, I love it. Let's go to the cinemas after this. In movie theaters? Yeah, in theaters. I saw it in theaters. Yeah. But she just had like filing cabinets of jokes from decades. Yeah. 80s doing like a new hour of material every month.

That's like one thing that I don't think I'm organized enough to do is like have a physical like my notebooks organized physically. Same. I have like note, obviously, like my notes in my phone. Yeah. Very, very messy. And then I have like a million notebooks, but I feel like I've lost half of them. Have you ever lost a notebook and been like, oh, fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it like the shit is in there. Yeah. But then sometimes that's so freeing because then you remember it, but you just remember. They are minimalists. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We need to connect you with the minimalists. The last question that we always ask at the end of every podcast and we're going to include you in this one is the cult of Santa comedy. Is it a live your life? A watch your back? Or a get the fuck out?

Level cult. So live your life is like it's fun. Yeah. Yeah. It's like live your life. Do what you're doing. Oh, okay. Sometimes I make this analogy. A live your life is like caffeine. Yeah. Caffeine. Yeah. Debatable, but like it's kind of fine for everyone. Watch your back. It's more corrosive than caffeine. Yeah. So then a watch your back would be like alcohol. Tragic for some people. Fine for others. Get the fuck out. Meth, heroin. Yeah. Bad for everyone. Okay. I'm saying watch your back because I think also the the rewards of alcohol, if you can do it in moderation and carefully are high, they can be it can be great. So I'm going to go watch your back. Yeah. I agree. I tried to twist it positively there. I'm like, I'm even like, I love getting tipsy up run, but we

can't get scared of the cult because even this I'm like, what if another comedian listens to this and they think I'm being down on comedy, but what are not, it's what I love comedy. What are other some other examples that we've had or watch your back? Theater kids. Theater kids are watching back. Theater kids are getting the fuck out. Yeah. Yeah. This is why we bring our own bias to it. That's hilarious. But like, you know, our crusade is not to encourage people to be so cynical that you completely disaffiliate from everything in your life that could be considered cultish. We are profoundly communal and belonging and ritual by nature. We just need to do it in a way that is healthy if we can help it. Yes. And aware and yeah. Yeah. And we always talk about

how like, especially today when like people are so lost and so exhausted, it's like they're looking for someone to tell them what to do. We just want to like sit back and be like, all right, tell me what to like eat, drink, exist. The fleabag quote, you know? I want someone to tell me who to love and how to love them. What do you believe, you know? Yeah. And it's like, do that, but like, make sure you're watching your back. Yeah. Someone the other day, or maybe I, maybe it was Miley Cyrus or something. I saw someone interviewed and they were like, bone broth is the thing. You could just one day a week, you drink a ton of bone broth. It'll fix your life. I was like, thank God, finally. Yeah, like the answer. I am drinking a shitload of bone broth. I do that

every other week with something new. I'm on mud water. What is mud water? It's like this water that has like mushrooms in it. Oh, okay. Okay. And I drink it instead of coffee now. But I don't know. It's chill for now. I don't want to like exnay them in case they want to like, you know, when we get celery juice, but the funny thing about these different sort of like kind of vague and innocuous materials is that you can construct a cult around anything if the right cult leaders are in place. Yeah. You have all the knowledge and the like you could so easily manipulate. We're trying. Well, we like to be transparent about like, we are trying to start a cult. Before we end the show, I want to ask you one more question. Yes. Would you consider

yourself a cult leader? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But you know, you know, in Lord of the Rings, like when Frodo's carrying the ring and he gets like the flicker of power hunger and stuff, I'm sure I've like, even when you said that, I was like, of course not. And like, you're like, you know, the like kombucha meme. Yeah. I was like, I wouldn't mind. I'd use it for good, right? Yeah. The second you start to defend why you're not a cult leader, you say you like one. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Just lean in. Yeah. Lean in. That's our show. Thanks for listening. We'll be back with a new cult next week. But in the meantime, stay culty, but not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult is created, hosted and produced by Amanda Montell and Issa Medina.

Kate Elizabeth is our editor. Our podcast studio is all things comedy and our theme music is by Kase of Culp. Thank you to our intern slash production assistant, Noemi Griffin. Subscribe to Sounds Like a Cult wherever you get your podcasts. So you never miss an episode. And if you like our show, feel free to give us a rating and review on Spotify or Apple podcasts. And check us out on Patreon at patreon.com slash sounds like a cult.